highaltitude.log.20110914

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[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[00:05] <Dan-K2VOL> greetings Kevin
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[00:13] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[00:19] <Dan-K2VOL> nicely, at the weekly hackerspace meeting
[00:19] <Dan-K2VOL> you?
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[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> I just read the results of the local election
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> and the balloon project is good also :)
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[00:28] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL : my pressure and temperature sensors work :)
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[00:40] <Lunar_Lander> and now good night
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[06:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Liz "[UKHAS] info about ballooning in Japan"
[06:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] info about ballooning in Japan"
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[07:27] <SamSilver> moring dave
[07:27] <daveake> mooring dave
[07:27] <daveake> (I'll need a boat to collect the payload)
[07:30] <SamSilver> bugger
[07:30] <SamSilver> I am doing my launch the other way around
[07:31] <daveake> No, not launched yet! Looking doubtful for this weekend.
[07:31] <daveake> Most predictions end up in the sea
[07:31] <SamSilver> I am going to go to where ever it is necessery for the payload to land at designated spot
[07:32] <SamSilver> yes
[07:32] <SamSilver> pity no improvement
[07:32] <SamSilver> even with all your options 2 x balloons and 2 x payload and varing fill
[07:33] <daveake> Indeed
[07:33] <SamSilver> how about a trip to france
[07:33] <daveake> I did think about that :-)
[07:33] <number10> you could visit NigeyS
[07:34] <number10> but would probably end up within M25
[07:35] <daveake> Need a notam though
[07:35] <daveake> Can't just launch anywhere :(
[07:36] <number10> ah - small payload big balloon - I know you are trying to upset Darkside ;)
[07:37] <Darkside> ;P
[07:37] <daveake> Yeah, can't let the Aussies come and take our records ;)
[07:38] <Darkside> haha
[07:38] <Darkside> i'm currently designing radar chaff :P
[07:38] <Darkside> \
[07:38] <Darkside> i won't want to fly a corner reflector
[07:38] <daveake> Anyway that would be a bonus. It''s a fun flight
[07:39] <daveake> I just hope it lands in the garden of someone daft enough to go to the media claiming it's the start of an alien invasion ...
[07:40] <number10> thats why I sugested get it to land at rendlesham
[07:40] <daveake> ah lol
[07:41] <daveake> I worked on the other payload yesterday - http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=129
[07:42] <number10> looks good - I like the polystyrene covering the camera hole
[07:43] <number10> around
[07:43] <daveake> Yeah, I added that after I realised the extended lens was a bit close to the edge! On my previous box the camera was further inside
[07:45] <daveake> The big thing I wanted to do was make it so the cameras go in last. Before they had to go in first. The camera batteries have the shortest run time so that made it a bit of a rush to get the thing assembled.
[07:45] <daveake> The round polystyrene was cut from the ball that the UFO was made from :)
[07:45] <number10> how long does the A480 last
[07:46] <daveake> Last time, about 2 minutes lol
[07:46] <number10> lol, when you programm it correctly I mean
[07:46] <daveake> I'd need to check, but the cameras are in the 3.5-4 hour range
[07:47] <daveake> My notes are at home, and I'm not.
[07:48] <daveake> Camera has 2 Lithium AAs and an 8GB card, taking a photo every 5 secs. The video has a 16GB card and 4 external AA Lithiums (2 only give about 2.5 hours IIRC)
[07:51] <number10> looks like the thing on the left is one of those GSM trackers - I got one off ebay
[07:51] <daveake> Yes, it is. Amazon I think it was.
[07:52] <costyn_> daveake: have you tested it yet? I've ordered one, but heard different stories about their reliability
[07:52] <daveake> I was going to use a mobile phone to send texts, but couldn't fit the firmware in with everything else, so gave up and used one of these. Smaller and lighter and of course independent of the flight computer.
[07:53] <number10> I have tried my one out a few times - seems to work OK
[07:53] <daveake> Mine didn't work in the flight - it never got a GPS lock. I think it must have been upside down in the box (it was loose)
[07:53] <number10> but not in a balloon
[07:54] <costyn_> someone said the chipset gets confused above a certain altitude; it does work once it gets back on the ground, but it takes a while before it gets a fix again
[07:54] <daveake> It's been fine in testing, though isn't the quickest to get GPS. Not as good as my phone at picknig up a weak GSM signal.
[07:54] <daveake> Yes, that was Rocketboy
[07:54] <number10> that will be interesting to see
[07:54] <daveake> Indeed.
[07:54] <number10> dave can you take a quick plane flight with yours to test it
[07:55] <costyn_> yep will be interesting to see
[07:58] <daveake> A friend does have his own plane, so I guess I could ask ... :)
[07:59] <daveake> Collecting the helium tomorrow. Not the size I wanted but there wasn't much choice
[08:00] <number10> larger than needed?
[08:01] <daveake> I was hoping to get one for 2 flights, but they said they only had medium (3.6 cu m) and jumbo (9). In a fit of stupidity I ordered the latter, weighing 75kg. Bought a sack truck to carry it around, then they called back and said they only had the medium ...
[08:03] <daveake> You'd have thought that with all that helium inside, the cylinders wouldn't weigh so much .... :p
[08:04] <number10> was it expensive?
[08:05] <daveake> The larger one would have been £105, which for 3 flights isn't bad. Medium is £65
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[08:06] <daveake> But at least I don't have the problem of shifting a 75kg cylinder around
[08:08] <number10> yes, is a bit heavy getting that in and out of the car
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[08:10] <daveake> Yep. It's a BOC one (like the one I'm collecting), and those are heavier than the equivalent Air Products ones. My supplier had none of the AP ones at all.
[08:10] <WillDuckworth> http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/high-hopes-for-norfolks-artificial-volcano-in-fight-against-climate-change-2354305.html
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[08:17] <number10> does anyone know if the tracker can cope with multiple balloons
[08:17] <Darkside> yeah it can
[08:17] <daveake> yes
[08:18] <Darkside> works fine, just don't refresh the page if you're out in the field
[08:18] <number10> why's that Darkside?
[08:18] <Darkside> because it'll have to load all the position data
[08:18] <Darkside> and that can be a lot of data
[08:18] <number10> ic
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[08:19] <number10> I was thinking it would be fun for a few of us to have a foil balloon competition - each balloon gets a time slot to Tx on
[08:19] <daveake> You can fiter by callsign now - doesn't that help?
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[08:20] <daveake> number10 The WRC rally cars are tracked using that method.
[08:21] <number10> we wouldnt need anything complex say each balloon gets a 30 second slot to Tx on a round robin
[08:21] <daveake> Sounds fine to me
[08:22] <RocketBoy> the real problem with the timeslot idea for us is that the payloads will be on slightly different frequencies - so your going to need at least as many rxs as txs
[08:22] <number10> we may need to transmit a preamble if we are disabling/enabling the transmitter
[08:22] <daveake> hmmm, didn't think of that
[08:22] <RocketBoy> bingo
[08:23] <RocketBoy> with a different transmit system it would be fine
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[08:24] <RocketBoy> but the one we use is very temp/frequency sensituve
[08:24] <number10> all on same frequency - just enable - Tx Disable wait 3 minutes and repeat - all at different slots
[08:24] <RocketBoy> but they won't be on the same frequency exactly
[08:25] <number10> ah - did not think of that
[08:25] <RocketBoy> bingo
[08:25] <number10> and they would drift differently even if tuned the same
[08:25] <RocketBoy> yep - unless you want to come up with a frequency locking system
[08:26] <RocketBoy> say loacked to gps 10KHz
[08:26] <RocketBoy> locked
[08:26] <RocketBoy> which is doable imo
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[08:31] <SamSilver> daveake: does that battery holder take just 3 batteries?
[08:31] <SamSilver> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/P1030210.jpg
[08:31] <daveake> 4, if you mean the one top-right
[08:31] <SamSilver> yes
[08:33] <SamSilver> it looks like it is missing a bit
[08:33] <daveake> Can probably get away with 3. Not measured the current yet but the GPS spec says 75mA so total will be about 100mA.
[08:33] <daveake> No, that's some foam in the way
[08:34] <SamSilver> aahhh have blown it up .... now I see
[08:34] <SamSilver> I am looking for a battery holder that takes three
[08:34] <SamSilver> or spot weld them will have to do
[08:34] <daveake> Those are available. Hot several here.
[08:35] <daveake> Got
[08:35] <SamSilver> supplier??
[08:35] <daveake> Maplin ... Farnell .. RS ... ebay ...
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[08:38] <SamSilver> we a bit in the dark-ages here in SA
[08:39] <costyn_> SamSilver: I'd just take a 4-AA one and put a piece of wire or a screw or bolt in place of a 4th AA
[08:39] <costyn_> SamSilver: or do you need the space?
[08:40] <daveake> Indeed. Or I can post one to you.
[08:41] <nosebleedKT> Hi all !
[08:42] <nosebleedKT> its me m1x10
[08:42] <nosebleedKT> :)
[08:44] <SamSilver> morning
[08:46] <SamSilver> costyn_: will show you what i end up doing
[08:46] <costyn_> SamSilver: ok :)
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[10:14] <SamSilver> welcome smea
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[11:07] <daveake> Aww, bye :(
[11:07] <daveake> SamSilver was ignored :(
[11:23] <number10> !stat smea
[11:23] <HAMBotty> smea: 3 words, 6 letters, 1 smilies, time wasted: 5 weeks 5 days 15 hours 50 minutes .
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> I see he is on a strict quota.
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[11:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] Moving venue of conference"
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[11:30] <number10> I wonder what the three words were
[11:33] <Darkside> !stat Darkside
[11:33] <HAMBotty> Darkside: 62000 words, 327612 letters, 375 smilies, time wasted: 17 weeks 6 days 22 hours 49 minutes .
[11:33] <Darkside> wow, exactly 62000?
[11:33] <Darkside> thats a bit weird
[11:33] <Darkside> !stat Darkside
[11:33] <HAMBotty> Darkside: 62009 words, 327662 letters, 375 smilies, time wasted: 17 weeks 6 days 22 hours 49 minutes .
[11:33] <Darkside> :D
[11:34] <daveake> !stat daveake
[11:34] <HAMBotty> daveake_: 1456 words, 7423 letters, 20 smilies, time wasted: 1 day 6 hours 48 minutes .
[11:35] <daveake> That's only one of me
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[11:37] <number10> you ruined that by talking Darkside
[11:39] <fsphil> !stat fsphil
[11:39] <HAMBotty> fsphil: 69001 words, 364062 letters, 942 smilies, time wasted: 17 weeks 4 days 23 hours 40 minutes .
[11:39] <fsphil> ack, one over 69000 :)
[11:39] <fsphil> we've very rounded today ;)
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[11:41] <daveake> Going for the 1000 smileys then? ;)
[11:43] <number10> !stat HAMBotty
[11:43] <HAMBotty> HAMBotty: 0 words, 0 letters, 0 smilies, time wasted: 18 weeks 22 hours 26 minutes .
[11:44] <Darkside> lol, just looking at the language of the suggestions my supervisor just sent me
[11:44] <Darkside> for my research proposal
[11:44] <Darkside> dunno how to explain it
[11:44] <Darkside> its... research paper language
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[11:46] <SpeedEvil> It's depressing how it's required you write like shit.
[11:46] <daveake> Related maybe to patent language and legal language
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> And distill any interest out of the topic.
[11:48] <Darkside> heh
[11:48] <Darkside> well, in this case its just for a research proposal
[11:48] <Darkside> i'm still learn how to use the language properly to make the research, which is quite novel, to *sound* novel
[11:49] <daveake> :)
[11:49] <Darkside> anyway, my supervisor gave me some good points
[11:49] <Darkside> so thats ueful
[11:51] <Darkside> and a few good references too
[11:53] <Darkside> still, it only makes my introduction better
[11:53] <Darkside> still need to properly write out the literature review
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[11:58] <number10> whats the intended research Darkside?
[11:59] <Darkside> This document proposes the development and deployment of a network of remote software defined radio receivers to further study the Earth's Ionosphere using signals of opportunity. Of particular interest are digital broadcast stations, providing high bandwidth signals with which to obtain channel information. Through modelling of these disturbances and analysis of collected data, the impact of these disturbances on HF systems will be studied. This w
[12:00] <number10> a suitable subject for an fr head
[12:00] <Darkside> thats my proposals abstract, i still have quite a few changes to make
[12:02] <Darkside> the end goal is a worldwide network of small SDRS, effectively replacing ionosondes as the new way of monitoring ionospheric conditions
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered what that does to GPS
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[12:04] <SpeedEvil> What does frequency dependant delay 'look like' on the recieved signal
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> looked at in the time domain
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> And can you see it over the 1MHz bandwidth
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> i was getting <6m error with basic gps
[12:05] <Laurenceb_> - sdr
[12:05] <Darkside> well given that its a pseudorandom signal, you don't really 'see' anything
[12:05] <Darkside> 6m error is your normal transionospheric error
[12:06] <Darkside> the only way you can get away from that is with long-time averaging, using dual frequencies, and really good ionospheric models
[12:07] <Darkside> anyway, i need to get back to writing...
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[12:09] <NigeyS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14916116
[12:09] <NigeyS> bahahaha
[12:09] <NigeyS> what a crock of shit
[12:10] <Darkside> fucking imbeciles
[12:10] <NigeyS> lol
[12:11] <NigeyS> hey DS :)
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[12:11] <NigeyS> dunno why greenbank banned wifi though, jodrell bank hasnt and it functions fine :|
[12:12] <BrainDamage> it's probably brought you from the same persons that think that vaccines cause autism
[12:12] <griffonbot> Received email: Peter "[UKHAS] Re: XML HoWest HAB"
[12:12] <NigeyS> lol BrainDamage prolly
[12:13] <fsphil> I liked the bit in the full story where they say they can now enjoy being outside in the sun
[12:13] <fsphil> more radio waves!
[12:13] <fsphil> the worse kind probably
[12:14] <NigeyS> hah good point phil
[12:14] <BrainDamage> I wonder if you can get them to have heart stop from surprise, if you'd tell them the average AM transmitter power
[12:15] <NigeyS> ;)
[12:15] <fsphil> I bet none of them have done a proper blind test -- the only one they mentioned in the story was using strong magnetic fields
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[12:16] <daveake> She says "I cannot go out in public". Well, dear, that's probably for the best.
[12:17] <NigeyS> hahaha
[12:17] <NigeyS> maybe she ran out of foil for her tin hat :p
[12:18] <daveake> lol
[12:18] <daveake> I bumped into this site earlier - http://www.aliens-everything-you-want-to-know.com/AlienSpacecraft.html
[12:18] <daveake> The author is nuttier than a snickers bar in a nut sandwich
[12:19] <Laurenceb_> www.davidicke.com
[12:19] <NigeyS> LOL!!
[12:19] <NigeyS> for almost all of those to fly, theyd have to break most of the laws of physics .. so hrm .. no !
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> http://www.steorn.com/
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> http://jnaudin.free.fr/
[12:20] <daveake> I don't think little things like the laws of physics bother people like that too much
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[12:22] <NigeyS> aye, those pesky LITTLE fundamental laws eh ;)
[12:27] <s-taylo> Ah, but they don't need lift because they can just bounce off the thick layer of chemtrails that the global conspiracy lays down.
[12:29] <NigeyS> s-taylo, hehehehe
[12:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Jonathan Pelham "Re: [UKHAS] Moving venue of conference"
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[12:56] <fsphil> noz you can't
[12:57] <fsphil> sunday predictions are still a bit mental
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[12:58] <daveake> yep. For the weekend I seem to have a choice of wet options - either east of Essex or south of Sussex :(
[12:58] <daveake> Need a homing boat payload :)
[12:58] <fsphil> or underfill, and land in france :)
[12:58] <daveake> Could do
[12:59] <fsphil> would be a long-shot for recovery
[12:59] <daveake> yep
[12:59] <daveake> Also I don't really have the time to go on an all-day recovery
[12:59] <fsphil> yea
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[13:01] <daveake> Now, if we had a selection of notam'd sites like CUSF but spread across the UK, it'd be possible to choose the launch site based on where you'd like it to land :)
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[13:20] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/14/lohan_hypobaric/
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> not going to work
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[13:27] <SpeedEvil> What isn't?
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[13:30] <PsionicOz> howdy Darkside
[13:31] <Darkside> err
[13:31] <Darkside> matt?
[13:31] <PsionicOz> yep
[13:31] <Darkside> aha!
[13:31] <PsionicOz> guilty
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[13:37] <Laurenceb_> it wont ignite
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[16:25] Nick change: GW8RAK -> smea
[16:25] <smea> fourth word
[16:25] <SamSilver> LOL!!
[16:26] Nick change: smea -> GW8RAK
[16:26] <GW8RAK> Now everyone knows what the fourth word is
[16:26] <GW8RAK> And the fifth
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[16:37] <number10> lol
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[16:45] <number10> GW8RAK: they dont seem to say very much on 14.070 BPSK31
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> the SLS launch appears to be DIRECT
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[16:45] <Laurenceb_> http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/sls1.html
[16:47] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIRECT
[16:47] <Laurenceb_> hmm not similar at all
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[16:51] <number10> does NASA have the budget?
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> SSME is barkingmad
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> Also - I question if spacex won't be at those figures by then
[16:54] <GW8RAK> number10 are you hearing the warbling sounds?
[16:55] <GW8RAK> there's normally lots of signals around that frequency
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[16:58] <GW8RAK> Have a look at http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ for example sound file
[17:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Habhub server maintenance"
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[17:06] Nick change: SamSilver -> SamSilver_
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[17:22] <stilldavid> Dan-K2VOL: http://hackaday.com/2011/09/14/a-laser-cutter-challenge/
[17:22] <stilldavid> :)
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[17:27] <Upu> don't want to sound negative but isn't that just a Saturn V with shuttle boosters on it ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14915725
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[17:29] <daveake> Hopefully with the boosters made in one piece instead of sections with o-rings.
[17:29] <GW8RAK> 130 tonne payload eventually.
[17:29] <GW8RAK> That's a lot
[17:29] <BrainDamage> nah, they learned from mistakes, this time they'll use chewing gum
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> LH2 is generally fail.
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> SSMEs are not great engines.
[17:30] <SpeedEvil> Way too complex and high-tech
[17:30] <BrainDamage> ( which btw, also shrinks in the cold, if you exclude the saliva )
[17:30] <daveake> lol
[17:30] <GW8RAK> "several launches needed for a Mars mission" That will be exciting!
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> Technically brilliant - in the same way that you can get a really good finish of tangerine paint for your bedroom.
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[17:31] <GW8RAK> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14916451 and a balloon story
[17:33] <daveake> Balloon + hosepipe + Karcher pressure washer. very hi tech :)
[17:35] <fsphil> wonder if they'll be using an ntx2 :)
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes.
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> I do hope it's not an actual hosepipe
[17:35] <SpeedEvil> Actual hosepipes don't do too well with ~30 bar
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[17:37] <number10> sorry was away from keyboard GWRAK, I am decoding and it seems that everyone is just saying the call sign, and asking is anyone is listening
[17:38] <GW8RAK> That doesn't sound right at all.
[17:38] <GW8RAK> Have you tried clicking on another signal on the waterfall?
[17:39] <GW8RAK> Each line on the waterfall display is another signal
[17:39] <number10> yes usually QC QC call sign
[17:39] <number10> and then someone else replies location and radio and 599
[17:39] <GW8RAK> Welcome to the world of amateur radio :)
[17:40] <number10> yes, I was hopeing for a little more
[17:40] <Randomskk> hah
[17:40] <Randomskk> be glad they're not talking about their ailments
[17:40] <GW8RAK> CQ is "calling anybody" and 599 is a signal report, readability, strength and tone.
[17:40] <number10> what id DR OM eas that dear OM
[17:40] <Randomskk> or allergies or underwear or traffic or weather
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[17:41] <GW8RAK> Don't know how one is meant to give RST properly with PSK, so most people put 599 (perfect signal) by default.
[17:41] <number10> lol Randomskk aparently thats should be left to 80m (joke from GWRAK)
[17:42] <number10> ic GW8RAK - what would they give for signal if some of the data did not decode
[17:42] <GW8RAK> A lot of contacts on amateur radio are now callsign, location, 599 and 73's (best wishes). All very boring and I don't do those. I want to have a proper chat. If you can get an american station, they will often want to chat
[17:42] <Randomskk> 599
[17:42] <Randomskk> any less and you're basically insulting their kit or saying your own is too bad
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[17:42] <GW8RAK> You will often hear people give 599 (perfectly readable) and then they'll say, say again your callsign, much interference.
[17:43] <Randomskk> indeed
[17:43] <Randomskk> like "hmmmmm 599 reeeeally"
[17:43] <number10> so not quite the truth
[17:43] <GW8RAK> Randomskk, in that case, give them 416
[17:43] <GW8RAK> Means just as much as 599
[17:44] <number10> why 599 is max?
[17:44] <GW8RAK> number10, those are just the values set, range of 1 to 5 and 1 to 9
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[17:45] <GW8RAK> number10, remember that many operators know very little English, so they aren't capable of having long chats and most software allows text macros. Hit F1 for location, F2 for 599 etc
[17:45] <number10> so now is the difficult question
[17:45] <GW8RAK> Oh dear, I knew it was coming
[17:46] <number10> what do they get from it - if they buy the kit and dont make anything... why?
[17:47] <GW8RAK> To use the conservative party term, amateur radio is a "broad church". Some want to collect points in a contest, work as many locations as they can, some want to have the biggest penis, sorry amplifier, others want to work the world on 5W using homebrewed equipment
[17:47] <GW8RAK> It's a pick and mix hobby. Take the bits you want and ignore the rest
[17:48] <GW8RAK> For me, it's homebrew, experimentation, understanding the theory and principles. Contesting is not for me.
[17:49] <number10> yes, at work there are quite a few old amateurs and they have seemed to have lost interest. what I saw from my brief look was collecting points i think
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[17:50] <number10> our company even has a call sign
[17:50] <GW8RAK> Part of the problem in recent years has been that the M3 licence was introduced. It used to take a lot of work to get a licence, then they reduced the entry requirements, presumably to get more people into the hobby. Any discussion beyond that will get heated and controversial
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[17:51] <GW8RAK> Many older amateurs refused to talk to M3's initially, but now, it's not such a problem. Change happens, some like it, some don't.
[17:51] <number10> My office mate was saying that just today
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[17:51] <number10> about making it easier - as the morse requirement has now dropped
[17:52] <GW8RAK> Morse was the traditional big hurdle.
[17:53] <GW8RAK> In '64, the B licence was introduced and operation was on 70cm and up. Considering there was no commercial equipment in those days, the B licencees on air were technically very skillful
[17:53] <GW8RAK> In '68 2m and up was allowed and as the Japanese equipment came in the hobby grew rapidly.
[17:54] <GW8RAK> But many A licencees (with morse) looked down on B's as we were too lazy to do the morse test.
[17:55] <number10> It is interesting as I was wondering aout getting a licence
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[17:56] <GW8RAK> Even with a M3 licence there is a lot of technical interest, but you are not allowed to build a transmitter.
[17:56] <GW8RAK> You'd need the intermediate licence which also allows higher powers
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[17:57] <number10> I was hoping to just take the exam without having to attend a course
[17:58] <GW8RAK> I think that may be allowed, but not sure
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[18:00] <Randomskk> number10: you definitely don't have to attend a course
[18:00] <Randomskk> but you do have to do the practical part of the exam as well as the written
[18:00] <Randomskk> and the practical is separate
[18:00] <Randomskk> and so organising someone to examine you for practical and exam without also organising a course is probably... tricky
[18:00] <Randomskk> it's probably much easier to just do a course
[18:00] <number10> thats what I was finding
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[18:02] <number10> there is one at C&DARC over a weekend
[18:02] <GW8RAK> And the morse "test"
[18:03] <GW8RAK> Send and receive a message with a crib sheet in front of you.
[18:03] <number10> is a crib sheet I bet GWRAK
[18:03] <GW8RAK> The worrying thing is I'm the morse examiner on a course in November.
[18:03] <number10> sorry I keep missing the 8 in GW8RAK
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[18:03] <GW8RAK> I don't read those! :)
[18:04] <GW8RAK> C&D ?
[18:04] <number10> cambridge and district
[18:04] <GW8RAK> Of course. Wasn't doing radio when I lived in Cambridge
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[18:05] <number10> I work there but dont live there - where abouts where you when in Cambs GW8RAK?
[18:06] <GW8RAK> Used to work for Pye Unicam/Philips but all that has closed
[18:07] <number10> you have moived quite a way since
[18:07] <number10> moved
[18:07] <GW8RAK> Only once to North Wales
[18:08] <number10> yes a long move - what attracted you to n.w.?
[18:08] <GW8RAK> Hills, mountains, work. Hated the traffic in Cambridge.
[18:09] <GW8RAK> It was okay till the M11 opened
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[18:09] <number10> I would agree with that. I start in cambs at just gone 7 to avoid traffic - and would love to move to some hills
[18:11] <number10> I suppose its Ok if you are a student like Randomskk and live in town ;)
[18:11] <Randomskk> yea I would hate to drive in cambridge
[18:11] <Randomskk> but instead I walk everywhere and it's fine
[18:12] <number10> thats the nice cambridge experience - most people who work ther now come from out of town
[18:13] <GW8RAK> It wasn't bad when we first moved there, but by the end, it was 50 minutes to 7 miles. Moved up here and the commute was still 50 minutes, but 30 miles
[18:13] <Randomskk> somewhat less frustrating
[18:14] <GW8RAK> Moved to the top of a Welsh moutain and suddenly remembered that I'd always wanted to live on a hill for radio purposes, so got back into the hobby.
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[18:15] <number10> thats nice
[18:15] <GW8RAK> Now want to move downhill a bit, 'cos it cold at home, but want a long garden. 50m by 2m wide will do me
[18:15] <fsphil> mmmm big garden. would be nice
[18:15] <number10> I think my interest in HAB has spurred some renewed interest in my HAM office mate
[18:16] <GW8RAK> It's a nightmare.Takes me all winter to catch up on the summers growth.
[18:17] <GW8RAK> Big gardens are good, but hedges are a pain.
[18:17] <number10> big gardens are nice - I have one but its getting more difficult as I get towards 80m
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[18:17] <fsphil> lol
[18:17] <GW8RAK> And big trees
[18:17] <GW8RAK> Right, job done here, so I'm off home. ttfn
[18:17] <number10> cu
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[18:30] <Hiena> 'evening!
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[18:34] <number10> evening!
[18:36] <fsphil> lolo
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[18:41] <daveake> evening smea
[18:41] <daveake> oh too late
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[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[18:52] <daveake> evening LL
[18:54] <number10> evening daveake
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[18:57] <daveake> Predictions for Saturday are very slightly better. Hope that's a trend that continues.
[18:58] <daveake> Evening #10
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> are you getting ready to fly again?
[18:58] <daveake> Yep
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> same payload as last time?
[18:59] <daveake> No, but similar. Same camera and video. Smaller GPS and processor board. Smaller box.
[19:00] <daveake> I also have a 100g payload to see how high that can get, but the wind this weekend would send that nearly to france!
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[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> that is not good
[19:00] <daveake> The light payload is ready; the other one just needs finishing off.
[19:01] <daveake> Collecting the cylinder tomorrow
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> which balloon do you use?
[19:06] <daveake> 1000g Hwoyee probably.
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> you don't have the balloon yet?
[19:06] <daveake> Payload will be around 800g
[19:06] <daveake> Yes, I have 2 1000's and 2 1600's :)
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool :)
[19:07] <daveake> Thought I'd best stock up as availability is variable#
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> I got a Kaymont 1500 and two of those surplus balloons
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[19:09] <daveake> I could only get a "medium" cylinder - 3.6 cu m - not enough really to use a 1600 balloon with this payload
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[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> I read a paper that said that silver sulfide was about the best thing for absorbing solar heat, a balloon paper mentioned that because it absorbed very well in visual and infrared, but radiated very poorly in infrared, it would get up to 200C in the daytime on a balloon
[19:37] <Dan-K2VOL> no, sorry, I think that was 140C
[19:38] <fsphil> toastie
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL> they said that styrofoam would just melt, and said that polyurethane foam would handle it, but that it was pretty heavy
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[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi GW8RAK
[20:03] <GW8RAK> Evening Lunar_Lander
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
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[20:04] <GW8RAK> Fine. Taking my son to University tomorrow. FREEDOM!!!!! :)
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[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
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[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> I'm fine as well
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[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK : just discussing payload box colour
[20:12] <fsphil> technicolour!
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
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[20:13] <GW8RAK> go for something different
[20:14] <fsphil> glow-in-the-dark green
[20:14] <Randomskk> could be handy
[20:14] <Randomskk> how about perspex, so it's really hard to see? :P
[20:15] <fsphil> silver does that well :)
[20:15] <GW8RAK> even better, get a cyalume lightstick and pour it all over the box before launch. And write Dangerous on the outside
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> xD Randomskk fsphil GW8RAK
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> I first wanted to use cadmium red
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> but flourescent orange might be better
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[20:23] <jcoxon> evening all
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[20:24] <fsphil> howdy jcoxon
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> hi jcoxon
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[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon : the topic is payload box colours
[20:25] <fsphil> aaaah, irc. forgot how fun it is :)
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> and fsphil
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> it's from finland!
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> and what else is from finland?
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[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> Vaisala, right
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[20:31] <fsphil> snow
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[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> wb Dan-K2VOL
[20:33] <number10> what uni is your son going GW8RAK, and subject?
[20:34] <GW8RAK> Brighton, Computer networking number10
[20:34] <number10> first year?
[20:35] <GW8RAK> yes.
[20:35] <GW8RAK> He's got to pay to learn what his brother was paid to learn in the RAF
[20:35] <number10> yes, will be difficult
[20:36] <GW8RAK> Not too bad. Last year of low prices
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes and no.
[20:36] <fsphil> networking sounds fun
[20:36] <GW8RAK> Plus Wales pays more? Has grants etc? Don't really understand it.
[20:37] <GW8RAK> Hi brother seems to have fun when he works. Gets to play with some really interesting kit.
[20:37] <GW8RAK> His
[20:37] <number10> I think the country needs a rethink on higher education
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:39] <GW8RAK> a few less media studies perhaps?
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2011/08/15/students-%E2%80%93-lower-earners-deferring-to-2012-could-pay-less/
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[20:43] <number10> early start tomrrow so off. Have a good trip tomorrow GW8RAK
[20:44] <GW8RAK> Okay number10. Just printing some maps for cycling while I'm down on the South Coast.
[20:45] <number10> nice - sounds like you will stay a while - have fun .. cu
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[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> cycling is cool GW8RAK
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[20:51] <GW8RAK> Oh yes, I do plenty
[20:51] <jcoxon> right time to get soldering without burning myself
[20:51] <jcoxon> burn is bad enough it now doesn't hurt at all
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[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> :/
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK, jcoxon I think the next big thing to master is the datalogging
[20:53] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, :-)
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> with the arduino
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:53] <jcoxon> SD cards aren't too difficult these days
[20:53] <jcoxon> much better file system libs
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> I got an OpenLog from Sparkfun
[20:53] <jcoxon> oh right
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> but I have to figure out how to operate it
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> do you know that jcoxon?
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[21:13] <jcoxon> i've never used one before
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> as far as I know it logs any serial data that is output
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> but this must be ordered somehow
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> like in a CSV-File or so
[21:20] <daveake> It's easy enough to use an SD card directly. I used a prebuilt Arduino SD library for it in my flight. It was very simple to use.
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> and then have a program part that orders and writes the data to the SD?
[21:22] <daveake> I did see the OpenLog thing, and as I remember you just send serial data to it and it writes everything to a file. I assume you can send "special" strings to set the file name etc.
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> I mean if I have about 5 sensors to log
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> I would like to have them in some format that I know which is what
[21:23] <daveake> Yes. It's (something like) SD.CreateFile("mylog.txt" .... SD.Write("da de da de da")
[21:24] <daveake> SW.Write("And what's this thing coming toward me very fast? So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like 'Ow', 'Ownge', 'Round', 'Ground'! That's it! Ground! Ha! I wonder if it'll be friends with me? Hello Ground! ");
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD cool!
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[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> but do you really have to solder wires to the SD contacts like in your blog?
[21:32] <daveake> Only if you're a cheapskate
[21:32] <BrainDamage> you can just buy a socket
[21:32] <daveake> Or you're too impatient to wait for a socket to arrive*
[21:32] <daveake> *that's my excuse
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> there is a microSD breakout for instance, is that good?
[21:34] <daveake> Never tried one, but I guess so.
[21:34] <daveake> I just used an old SD card that came with a camera. You know, the ones they supply that are good enough for about 5 photos.
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[21:35] <daveake> Even if you log everything you'll only need about 1MB for a flight
[21:35] <fsphil> how tricky is it talking with an sd card?
[21:35] <fsphil> it's something I've wanted to do, but always end up skipping it
[21:36] <Randomskk> with libraries, easy as anything
[21:36] <Randomskk> without, spi and some protocol mess. FAT is harder.
[21:37] <fsphil> wouldn't really need a filesystem.. or could make one. oooh that'd be fun
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> daveake : and which socket did you use for the cart?
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> or wait you were too impatient you said :)
[21:38] <daveake> :)
[21:38] <daveake> There's an Arduino SD library with basic FAT support. Or you can just write sectors fairly easily (not that I've tried)
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> I saw something about the library
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> look here: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/204
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> what about this one?
[21:39] <fsphil> I'd like to have a go at writing a filesystem module for linux
[21:39] <fsphil> or fuse
[21:40] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: you can get 10 or so for that price
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> where?
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[21:41] <BrainDamage> ebay
[21:42] <BrainDamage> only downside is long shipping time from china
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> a breakout like that?
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> found it
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[21:48] <daveake> Just got the box finished (well, aside from the GPS antenna and a label or two) for Cloud2: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3pnR2tASm2VjpuFlktmrEA?feat=directlink
[21:49] <BrainDamage> 404
[21:49] <daveake> oh, worked here :(
[21:49] <daveake> justamo
[21:52] <fsphil> 404 here 2
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[21:52] <daveake> Hmmm... don't see anything obvious
[21:52] <Upu> Yes I click random links not addressed to me also 404 here
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> 404
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> do SDHC cards work too?=
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> SDHC is basically the same
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> just some different fields in the address sectors
[21:53] <daveake> Try again plz ...
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Oh my god - that's disgusting.
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> and microSD or a normal size SD don't matter?
[21:54] <fsphil> that's it
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> nvm - wrong tab
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> Looks good.
[21:54] <daveake> Had to set to public
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> cool daveake
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> What's that yellow - looks like some 22 ammo boxes I saw
[21:54] <Upu> needs more pink gaffer
[21:54] <fsphil> +1
[21:54] <daveake> lol Upu
[21:55] <daveake> I nearly used some pink wire for the aerial
[21:55] <daveake> The yellow is hi viz tape. Came in handy last time.
[21:55] <Upu> is the antenna the bent radials on top of the bin ?
[21:55] <daveake> Ground plane wires sticking out sideways from the bottom.
[21:56] <Upu> how long are those ?
[21:56] <daveake> 164mm
[21:56] <Upu> they look too long but it may just be the pic
[21:56] <daveake> Aerial inside the bin
[21:56] <Upu> yeah
[21:56] <daveake> All wires 164mm
[21:56] <Upu> it looks big or that is a small bin
[21:57] <daveake> The box is 20cm wide
[21:57] <Upu> about same as mine
[21:58] <daveake> It used to be about 40x40x40 till I started hacking it to bits!
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> and a 2 GB SD is sufficient?
[22:01] <Upu> jcoxon on http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference next to your intro is it meant to have pico habbing there or have I just had a brain to finger interface issue ?
[22:01] <daveake> For what?
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> for data+
[22:05] <jcoxon> well i thought that i might do a short thing about pico
[22:05] <Upu> depends what you're recording but 128Mb would be enough for text data I suspect
[22:05] <Upu> thats fine
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:05] <jcoxon> though i could do a whole talk about it
[22:05] <Upu> I just didn't know if i'd put that there by accident
[22:07] <Upu> the Amateur radio version of Crocodile Dundee's thats not a knife, thats not a Yagi http://ok1teh.nagano.cz/apv-16x13wl_2008_oct.jpg
[22:07] <daveake> Lunar_Lander - just do the maths ... say you're logging just GPS, 2 sentences at 1Hz, say 80 bytes per sentence ... that's 2*80*60*60*4 bytes for a 4-hour flight, that's only 2MB.
[22:08] <fsphil> *drool*
[22:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Fergus Noble "[UKHAS] Slightly off-topic..."
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> true daveake
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> What is that - 20m?
[22:10] <Upu> the Yagi ?
[22:10] <Upu> moon bounce
[22:10] <Upu> dunno what frequency they use
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[22:13] <Upu> right I'm off night all
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Night.
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Upu
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[22:33] <SpeedEvil> I hadn't realised SLS was _quite_ that bad.
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> 30 billion, for two launches this decade.
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> If you paid spacex for falcon-heavy for those launches, you can, with that money, launch TWELVE AND A HALF THOUSAND TONS.
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> but spacex now stepped off the stage recovery thing
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> and Musk had once said that he would think SpaceX failed if they cannot recover the first stage
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Recovery would be nice.
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> But fundamentally, if you can get launch that cheap - it's not a big issue.
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> We're not short of aluminium.
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[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> did you hear that there was an engine overheat in the last Falcon 9 which was not revealed until now?
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[22:41] <russss> $30bn is the development costs, no? I thought they were talking >$800m cost per launch if you don't amortise
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[22:42] <russss> Lunar_Lander: yeah, although it only affects the reusability potential of the engines, which isn't currently an issue
[22:42] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: have you seen the LISA/M?
[22:42] <russss> it was an overheat on shutdown
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:45] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: also were you using parazzi? I can't remember
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[23:09] <fergusnoble> Randomskk: hi Adam
[23:09] <Randomskk> heya
[23:09] <Randomskk> how's it going stateside?
[23:09] <fergusnoble> pretty good, only been here for about a week
[23:10] <fergusnoble> mainly working on the GPS
[23:10] <fergusnoble> hows it going with you?
[23:11] <Randomskk> not too bad, working full time all holiday really so the only side project stuff i've been doing is some hacking on habitat (which is now running live!)
[23:11] <Randomskk> the full time work is fairly enjoyable though - data analysis and software development and stuff, and recently I got to talk about machine learning and all that which is good
[23:11] <Randomskk> also it pays enough money that I can go "ooh pretty quadcopterplanething"
[23:12] <Randomskk> I still really really want a swarm of little quadcopters but basically haven't made any progress on my motor controller since lent 2010
[23:12] <Randomskk> and frankly AVR's a dead end for that now, STM32s are cheaper and better (and esden already has code for an STM32...)
[23:13] <Randomskk> how's the GPS going? :P I was just talking about it to one of the engineers in my year actually
[23:18] <fergusnoble> yeah thats awesome about habitat, I need to catch up on all this cool stuff
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[23:19] <Randomskk> hoepfully my third year won't be so busy with course work as 1st and 2nd (so I hear, anyway)
[23:19] <fergusnoble> and yeah I think the stm is a really great basis for a flight computer
[23:19] <Randomskk> it'd be really good to get cusf projects properly restarted after the esa hiatus
[23:19] <fergusnoble> yeah absolutely
[23:20] <fergusnoble> well hopefully we will have a shiny gps for you by then
[23:20] <Randomskk> yea, I think so too - I just don't know whether to abandon my original plans for developing my own hardware, software or both really
[23:20] <Randomskk> ooh excellent
[23:20] <Randomskk> do we still have issues with export or is that sorted?
[23:21] <fergusnoble> its has been going a bit slowly so far as I should have gone out to the states earlier and Henry is away now but it should pick up pace soon
[23:21] <fergusnoble> erm, not sure about the export issues
[23:21] <Randomskk> hehe oh well I'm sure we'll cross that bridge as and when
[23:21] <Randomskk> sounds good though
[23:21] <fergusnoble> yeah I'm sure we will be able to work something out
[23:21] <Randomskk> hopefully we'll have a rocket with a flight computer to put it in :P
[23:23] <fergusnoble> yeah, did Ed start playing with the lisa/l yet?
[23:23] <Randomskk> not afaik but I haven't spoken to him about that
[23:23] <Randomskk> I think he's been kept fairly busy with google, but
[23:23] <Randomskk> on the other hand apparently we might be getting a cusf logo from a google designer
[23:23] <fergusnoble> yeah
[23:23] <fergusnoble> oh that would be sweet
[23:24] <fergusnoble> the current one isnt fantastic
[23:24] <Randomskk> hehe indeed
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 15 2011