highaltitude.log.20110908

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[07:13] <m1x10> Hi
[07:13] <number10> hi
[07:14] <m1x10> hi ten mate
[07:18] Nick change: fsphil -> fsph10
[07:18] <fsph10> g'day
[07:18] <m1x10> yeah:)
[07:19] Nick change: fsph10 -> fsphil
[07:19] <m1x10> no:(
[07:19] <fsphil> aww
[07:20] <fsphil> it's too early in the morning for numbers :)
[07:20] <m1x10> :p
[07:20] <number10> need to change my nick then
[07:21] <fsphil> hiya number... er... tun... tin.... yea
[07:25] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/2qC8e.jpg
[07:26] <fsphil> oh that's nuts
[07:27] <fsphil> all working ok?
[07:27] <number10> is the battery connector 4 in series?
[07:27] <fsphil> those are the same ones I use, yea
[07:29] <Darkside> its just a mock up atm
[07:29] <Darkside> i havent soldered on the SMA connector
[07:29] <Darkside> i'll do that tonight and try and finish off the ground plane
[07:29] <Darkside> currently its just a bit of coad poking out the bottom of the box
[07:31] <Darkside> coax*
[07:31] <Darkside> the only other thing i need to add to that is another temp sensor
[07:32] <jcoxon> Darkside, nice work
[07:32] <jcoxon> how much does it weigh?
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[07:35] <Darkside> havent measured it all yet
[07:35] <Darkside> i'm hoping <100g
[07:35] <jcoxon> nice work!
[07:35] <jcoxon> i suspect it wil lbe
[07:36] <fsphil> at this point the only saving is in the battery
[07:37] <fsphil> either smaller batteries or removing the holder
[07:37] <Darkside> yeah, i could use AAAs, but i'll get much reduced runtime
[07:37] <jcoxon> bl
[07:37] <jcoxon> bbl
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[07:40] <fsphil> or solar
[07:40] <fsphil> though that might end up heavier
[07:49] <fsphil> Darkside, you use hot air or regular iron for soldering the avr on that board?
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[07:56] <Darkside> regular iron
[07:56] <Darkside> drag soldering
[07:56] <fsphil> nice, seen some vids of that
[07:57] <Darkside> it's really easy
[07:57] <Darkside> you just need flux
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[08:03] <Darkside> ok i think i might head home from uni
[08:03] <Darkside> it's getting about that time
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[08:06] <number10> Something for you to read when you get home Darkside http://library.gsfc.nasa.gov/Databases/Balloon/Data/BT1037.10.pdf
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[08:54] <jcoxon> admin admin admin
[08:55] <fsphil> aah the beetlejuice hack
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[08:56] Action: mixio tests archlinux
[08:59] <fsphil> any good?
[09:00] <fsphil> I've heard good things about arch, but not tried it yet
[09:01] <mixio> its so light
[09:02] <mixio> does eat power
[09:02] <mixio> doesnt
[09:02] <mixio> everything is simplified
[09:03] <mixio> and the package manager is called pacman :)
[09:03] <BrainDamage> does it have binary packages?
[09:03] <BrainDamage> or do you have to compile stuff?
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[09:06] <mixio> no compiles
[09:06] <mixio> its not like debian :p
[09:07] <mixio> you have a mirrorlist. you synchronise pacman with those mirrors. Then you just 'pacman -S firefox' and its all done.
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[09:23] <fsphil> mixio, it's exactly like debian ;-)
[09:24] <mixio> ee, wait. Debian is compiling i think
[09:24] <mixio> nice! xchat blinks when you type mixio
[09:25] <fsphil> gentoo is compiled, all the others have binary packages
[09:25] <mixio> ahh yes gentoo
[09:25] <fsphil> well, even gentoo has binary packages
[09:25] <mixio> im setting up debian first time in my life
[09:26] <fsphil> I never liked the way debian setup things, too used to redhat I guess
[09:27] <mixio> but its package manager makes things easier
[09:27] <mixio> anyway
[09:27] <mixio> back to windoes
[09:27] <mixio> need some things to do
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[09:27] <fsphil> I've got a little PC arriving today, might try arch on it
[09:29] <Laurenceb__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ool4gyrJpM0
[09:29] <Laurenceb__> lul wtf
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[10:03] <SamSilver> eroomde: a few diff porosity and vent changes > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JO2uLixbog
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[10:15] <Darkside> fsphil: i give up on this shaggy antenna
[10:15] <Darkside> seriously
[10:16] <Darkside> how the hell do you have the patience to go de-brain that much shield...
[10:16] <fsphil> nearly didn't, was considering giving up at the half way point
[10:17] <fsphil> I think just doing about 5cm of it and then using copper tape for the rest might do just as good
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[11:28] <jcoxon> ping Upu
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[11:40] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[11:42] <number10> noone around
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[11:55] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[11:58] <UpuWork> pong jcoxon
[11:58] <UpuWork> what news of the south good sir ?
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[12:00] <jcoxon> check email
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[12:04] <UpuWork> rgr
[12:04] <UpuWork> hmm
[12:05] <UpuWork> oh other mail 1 sec
[12:06] <Upu> that sounds reasonable
[12:06] <Upu> ok will have a chat about it when I get home but that sounds perfect to be honest
[12:06] <jcoxon> yeah not bad
[12:07] <Upu> what an awesome name Edwige
[12:07] <Upu> sounds like an owl from Harry Potter
[12:07] <Upu> can book it for me
[12:07] <jcoxon> price is reasonable
[12:08] <Upu> lets have a quick chat this evening sorry bit manic at work bbl
[12:08] <jcoxon> np
[12:08] <jcoxon> just an update
[12:08] <jcoxon> cya
[12:09] <Upu> thx for doing that btw
[12:09] <Upu> really afk now
[12:38] <jcoxon> hooray my RFm22b has arrived
[12:41] <jcoxon> which means that my 25g payload is possible!
[12:42] <jcoxon> though i should have got 2
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon: are you going to try RTTY with that?
[12:52] <Darkside> jcoxon: bah, my micronut is 15 grams :P
[12:58] <jcoxon> Darkside, oh thats with power as well
[12:58] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, i'm looking at the datasheet
[12:58] <jcoxon> i won't be able to get rtty working on it
[12:58] <jcoxon> someone else might...
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> im not sure if its possible
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> you could run pipextreme...
[12:59] <jcoxon> my first plan is just to implement OOK
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> but theres no pipextreme groundstation boards avaliable
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> i see
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> dont read the datasheet
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> grab the si4432 datasheet - its properly written
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[13:13] <fsphil> pong jcoxon
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[13:26] <jcoxon> hey fsphil
[13:27] <jcoxon> was just saying i've got that radio module
[13:27] <jcoxon> which means that i can fit everything onto a single foil balloon
[13:29] <fsphil> *quickly reads scroll back* .. oooh RFm22b .. same kind of setup as the ntx2?
[13:29] <jcoxon> gosh no
[13:29] <jcoxon> its on of those intergrated transcievers
[13:29] <jcoxon> but
[13:30] <jcoxon> its got an arduino library for some high level comms
[13:30] <jcoxon> i'm looking into adding controllable OOK for a bit of CW/Hell
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> its just an si4432 breakout board
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> si4432 is nice as it has integrated packet handling
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> but its maybe all a bit too high level for hab use
[13:31] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, yeah thats what i was thinking
[13:31] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, though would be interesting to do both perhaps
[13:32] <fsphil> would be, maybe with a decent antenna you could get reliable 2-way
[13:38] <jcoxon> it can do more then 10mW i think
[13:38] <jcoxon> so was thinking could detect out to sea and up the power a bit
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[13:41] <Laurenceb_> pipextreme has done 11Km with whips at each end
[13:41] <Laurenceb_> packet error rate was a bit high, but it did the AES128 handshaking
[13:42] <Laurenceb_> but aiui pip had a massive row with other developers about board shipments and payments
[13:42] <Laurenceb_> now theres no groundstation boards :S
[13:43] <Laurenceb_> the firmware can probably be ported to atmega relatively easily
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> it should have hundered Km range using a yagi, then you've got a spread spectrum encrypted transparent datalink XD
[13:44] <jcoxon> hmmm can't find a function to actually turn the tx on and off
[13:45] <Laurenceb_> yeah all the low level stuff is very much taken care of on si4432
[13:49] <jcoxon> i guess i could set it to unmodulated carrier and then switch between idle and tx
[13:49] <jcoxon> to get raw OOK
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[15:04] <SamSilver> http://www.gizmag.com/hybrid-air-vehicles-airship/19746/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=6649765a7d-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
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[15:48] <jcoxon> hehe - managed to get it to tx hellschreiber
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[16:04] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon: nice, that was fast
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[17:38] <NigeyS> me has pcbssssss
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[17:47] <TimZaman> fsphil fsphil-laptop did you compile for win?
[17:48] <fsphil-laptop> dl-fldigi?
[17:48] <TimZaman> y
[17:48] <fsphil-laptop> there should be a link in that email
[17:49] <TimZaman> geez sory
[17:49] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[17:49] <TimZaman> i have been very busy (with preparing for the launch)
[17:49] <fsphil-laptop> I know that feeling
[17:49] <TimZaman> around 20 serious emails today (a lot for my terms)
[17:50] <fsphil-laptop> good emails or bad emails?
[17:50] <TimZaman> all good, except one, a friend cant help. luckily i have more than 1 friend
[17:50] <TimZaman> i have 2!
[17:50] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[17:52] <TimZaman> phil are you sure?
[17:52] <TimZaman> it's still called 3.21.13?
[17:52] <fsphil-laptop> yea, that's the fldigi version
[17:52] <TimZaman> i understand.
[17:52] <fsphil-laptop> that only changes when we merge with upstream
[17:52] <TimZaman> Sorry
[17:52] <TimZaman> Also, i am at 13cm stripping the wire
[17:52] <fsphil-laptop> there's a bit of a buzz on the tracker
[17:52] <TimZaman> 17cm would suffice?
[17:53] <TimZaman> buzz on the tracker?
[17:53] <fsphil-laptop> spacenear.us :)
[17:53] <fsphil-laptop> 17cm is fine
[17:53] <TimZaman> what do you mean
[17:53] <fsphil-laptop> load up the tracker
[17:53] <TimZaman> tracker seems fine?
[17:54] <fsphil-laptop> the payload is called buzz
[17:54] Action: fsphil-laptop is easily amused, don't mine me
[17:55] <TimZaman> ah. i dont blame you, you are irish
[17:55] <TimZaman> irish-ish
[17:56] <fsphil-laptop> humanish :)
[17:56] <TimZaman> Also, can someone change the PicoAtlas announcement to something sensible like DELFT SSDV LAUNCH 1 (11 sept 1300 dutch time)
[17:56] <fsphil-laptop> part man, part laptop
[18:00] <TimZaman> fsphil excude my ignorance, im not a commandline buff. how do i start three parallel threads in one console
[18:01] <fsphil-laptop> um, & I think
[18:02] <fsphil-laptop> http://hacktux.com/bash/ampersand
[18:02] <TimZaman> fsphil dlfigi doesnt boot
[18:03] <TimZaman> at all!
[18:03] <TimZaman> gooz geez haha the "&" command rocks. man i feel like a noob.
[18:04] <fsphil-laptop> there's quite a lot about bash I don't know :)
[18:04] <fsphil-laptop> how far is dl-fldigi getting?
[18:08] <TimZaman> ehm
[18:08] <TimZaman> screen flashes open to a white thin
[18:08] <TimZaman> within the second its gone
[18:08] <fsphil-laptop> hmm
[18:08] <TimZaman> 3.20.29 works
[18:09] <TimZaman> (win7, 32bit)
[18:09] <fsphil-laptop> I have no windows box to test it on atm
[18:13] <fsphil-laptop> I've seen it crash like that due to something in the configuration no longer being valid
[18:13] <fsphil-laptop> one sec
[18:13] <TimZaman> should i erase something?
[18:13] <TimZaman> reg?
[18:13] <fsphil-laptop> rename .dl-fldigi in your windows home folder
[18:15] <m1x10> hey
[18:15] <fsphil-laptop> howdy m1x10
[18:15] <m1x10> anyone to tell me the diff between xtables and iptables? I'm still on iptables but I see in kernel config the xtables.
[18:16] <fsphil-laptop> you shouldn't need to be changing the kernel?
[18:17] <m1x10> i alwaus compile a custom kernel.
[18:17] <TimZaman> fsphil seems to work
[18:17] <TimZaman> fsphil at least i can reconfigure
[18:17] <fsphil-laptop> "Xtables is more or less used to refer to the entire firewall (v4,v6,arp,eb) architecture"
[18:17] <TimZaman> fsphil i uninstalled everything that had something to do with fldigi
[18:17] <fsphil-laptop> yea there must be a configuration thing causing it
[18:18] <fsphil-laptop> I'll put the old version onto my laptop here and try and crash it
[18:18] <TimZaman> fsphil there ggoes something wrong with the config
[18:18] <TimZaman> i cant input what radio i have
[18:18] <fsphil-laptop> yea I spotted that too
[18:18] <fsphil-laptop> you can enter it, but it doesn't get displayed
[18:18] <TimZaman> well you can type it in, but doesnt see it
[18:18] <fsphil-laptop> think the frame is too small
[18:18] <TimZaman> yeah
[18:19] <TimZaman> fsphil rest works
[18:19] <fsphil-laptop> nice
[18:20] <m1x10> Now I find something else. ARPTables and Ebtables.
[18:21] <m1x10> I know ARPtables
[18:21] <TimZaman> fsphil is pleased
[18:21] <TimZaman> ehhhhhhhhh
[18:21] <m1x10> Ebtables seem to do the same
[18:21] Action: TimZaman is pleased
[18:22] <TimZaman> wow my mission control is too cool for school
[18:23] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[18:23] <TimZaman> 7 sats; inside, with the metal blinds down!!!
[18:23] <TimZaman> okay one open window, but still.
[18:23] <TimZaman> gm862 not too bad
[18:23] <TimZaman> fsphil i think you fixed it!
[18:23] <TimZaman> +10 respectpoints
[18:24] <TimZaman> but it seems though that my shift has changed from 600 to 500... ?
[18:24] <TimZaman> fsphil there is still the problem that fldigi doesnt accept 300+ baud i guess
[18:24] <fsphil-laptop> normal fldigi won't
[18:25] <fsphil-laptop> it only goes up to 300
[18:25] <fsphil-laptop> aah you mean the configure, yea
[18:25] <TimZaman> yeah but i mean
[18:25] <TimZaman> yeah
[18:26] <TimZaman> i got two GIANT cylinders for helium today
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[18:26] <TimZaman> one of a meter, one of 1.70m
[18:26] <TimZaman> luckily,... my 1600g balloons came in today!
[18:26] <fsphil-laptop> snap :)
[18:28] <TimZaman> hwoyee was pretty fast
[18:28] <TimZaman> i can never get a hold of them, too flaky those guys. but this time she just said she had them lieing there and the could send right away.. i paid, two days later they were in transmit, 10 days later they're here!
[18:28] <TimZaman> though still i trust rocketboy more then them
[18:28] <fsphil-laptop> it's not like them
[18:29] <fsphil-laptop> you can't buy them in the US directly from hwoyee anymore
[18:29] <TimZaman> why???
[18:29] <fsphil-laptop> they signed a distribution deal with some company there
[18:29] <TimZaman> omg.
[18:30] <fsphil-laptop> less likely to happen here, but it would mess things up if it did
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[18:30] <TimZaman> It could also be a good thing though.. getting balloons fast and for a decent price?
[18:31] <TimZaman> randomsolutions is good, but supplies can be unreliable
[18:31] <fsphil-laptop> depends on the disturber I suppose
[18:31] <TimZaman> y
[18:31] <NigeyS> TimZaman, in fairness, they lost steves order twice iirc
[18:31] <fsphil-laptop> distribute
[18:31] <fsphil-laptop> even
[18:31] Action: fsphil-laptop can't spell tonight, and the spell checker isn't helping :)
[18:31] <TimZaman> NigeyS, yes, thats why i said that i'd like to buy from steve way more than from hwoyee
[18:32] <NigeyS> :D
[18:32] <TimZaman> but suddenly they came with their 1600gs that they had lieing
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[18:32] <TimZaman> he told me that once his order was delivered to cyprus!! haha
[18:32] <TimZaman> now thats the kind of crap you want to avoid
[18:32] <NigeyS> lol bloody hell
[18:32] <TimZaman> Oh well!
[18:33] <TimZaman> lets hope for good stuff sunday
[18:33] <TimZaman> could be a great succes
[18:33] Action: NigeyS crosses fingers
[18:33] <TimZaman> they want me to do a livestream at a conference in november in delft, could be nice.
[18:33] <fsphil-laptop> the size of the options window on the predictor is a bit off
[18:33] <TimZaman> fsphil i noticed that too
[18:34] <fsphil-laptop> I don't have the paperwork to fly this weekend, but I'm still glad: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=2a428c28eb5961c189e0d5a1eb3de787a6907485
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[18:35] <fsphil-laptop> sunday isn't much better
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[18:35] <number10> fsphil-laptop looks like your in for a windy on
[18:35] <number10> e
[18:35] <fsphil-laptop> yea!
[18:35] <fsphil-laptop> and heavy rain too
[18:35] <TimZaman> whoo indeed
[18:36] <fsphil-laptop> I'm hoping this one goes south east, there are too many forests and mountains along the north coast
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[18:38] <TimZaman> yaesu battery sucks
[18:39] <fsphil-laptop> in the 817?
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[18:40] <number10> they are very expensive to replace - if you buy a yasu one
[18:41] <TimZaman> yeah got a yaesu
[18:41] <TimZaman> it sucks
[18:41] <TimZaman> fully charge it
[18:42] <TimZaman> unplug
[18:42] <TimZaman> says 50% bat
[18:42] <number10> someone at work has an older 817 and managed to source some other battery to fit it - a lot cheaper than yaesu
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[18:47] <eroomde> yes the stock 817 batts are a bit notorious
[18:47] <eroomde> for not being particualrly good
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[18:50] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[18:50] <number10> 23 degrees down your way daveake
[18:51] <Upu> evening
[18:51] <daveake> How can you tell ... :)
[18:51] <daveake> evening
[18:51] <fsphil-laptop> 32C where TimZaman is :)
[18:51] <eroomde> daveake: where are you based?
[18:51] <Upu> I like that command
[18:51] <number10> magic
[18:51] <daveake> Berks, 10 miles NW of Newbury
[18:51] <daveake> 23 because of all the monitors ...
[18:52] <Upu> 30'c in here because of wife
[18:52] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[18:52] <daveake> lol
[18:52] <TimZaman> hahaha
[18:52] <fsphil-laptop> careful, she might be in the channel in disguise :)
[18:52] <TimZaman> there is only one good way of testing wether your tempsensor is correct
[18:53] <TimZaman> stick it somewhere and see if it reads 37C
[18:53] Action: fsphil-laptop waves at spy :)
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[18:54] <fsphil-laptop> hmmm my laptop battery is nearly flat
[18:54] <fsphil-laptop> the charger is downstairs
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[18:56] <spy> hola
[18:56] <spy> my SONY fails to charge batts entirely
[18:56] <spy> perhaps a voltage regulator onboard fried or so
[18:57] <spy> marginally on-topic, Nokia N900's manual explains how high the energy in the battery can launch the phone. 10kM IIRC
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[19:00] <fsphil-laptop> impressive
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[19:02] <spy> presumably assumes 100% efficient engine, no drag etc
[19:03] <BrainDamage> probably simply equals mgh to battery's energy
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[19:16] <daveake> ping DanielRichman
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[19:29] <TimZaman> phil, is this the latest?
[19:30] <TimZaman> ill install on linux
[19:30] <TimZaman> using the regular git
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[19:40] <fsphil-laptop> this one has all my patches in it --> https://github.com/fsphil/dl-fldigi
[19:41] <TimZaman> ty i was messing about on jcoxon's one couldnt see yours
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[20:28] <DanielRichman> daveake: Hi
[20:28] <daveake> Hi :)
[20:29] <daveake> I was wondering .... in my Tx string I have "Flight Mode" which is (e.g.) "4" for "waiting for launch", "9" for cutdown on etc. Is there any facility for the server doing the lookup and showing the text on the map instead of the number?
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[20:30] <Randomskk> hmm
[20:30] <Randomskk> yes
[20:31] <Randomskk> yes there is
[20:31] <Randomskk> give me a list of numbers to words and your payload name
[20:31] <Randomskk> wait, unless you were talking to DanielRichman and I missed it
[20:31] <Randomskk> in which case, the same thing really
[20:31] <daveake> :)
[20:31] <daveake> He was kind enough to upload my payload config file hence I thought I'd dump this extra work on him too :p
[20:32] <Randomskk> haha yea soon enough we'll make it so anyone can upload their config files and then we can be lazy
[20:32] <daveake> Excellent
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[20:34] <NigeyS> ffs how much do i hate yum :@
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[20:37] <DanielRichman> ok yeah we can do that. It'd be a custom thing but that's fine
[20:37] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: post filter, or something on spacenear?
[20:38] <DanielRichman> something on spacenear is easier, but it feels hackier
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[20:40] <Randomskk> post filter surely
[20:40] <Randomskk> just emit a new field
[20:41] <Randomskk> which spacenear can then print
[20:41] <Randomskk> spacenear shouldn't be easier than a filter really
[20:41] <Randomskk> tempted to suggest making it another normal filter, a kind of text replacement
[20:41] <Randomskk> config would be the name of the field to read, the name of the field to emit and a dict of replacements
[20:42] <DanielRichman> hmm. That's a good idea;
[20:42] <DanielRichman> daveake: when are you flying?
[20:42] <Randomskk> config:{source: status, dest: status_str, replacements: { 4: "waiting for launch", 9: "cutdown on"}}
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[20:44] <daveake> Sept 17th, all being well
[20:44] <daveake> Just a mo I'll upload the mode list
[20:45] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: so if I wanted to write that filter & the float scaling one; which branch should I branch off from?
[20:45] <Randomskk> uhm
[20:45] <Randomskk> doesn't habitat/develop have habitat/filters
[20:45] <Randomskk> yea it does
[20:45] <Randomskk> do that
[20:45] <Randomskk> possibly even put them in common.py
[20:45] <Randomskk> though uhm
[20:45] <Randomskk> maybe common.py should be renamed to ../filters.py
[20:46] <Randomskk> anything not common or too specific's gonna go in habitat_extensions anyway
[20:46] <DanielRichman> true
[20:46] <daveake> Here's my list of flight mode numbers/meanings - http://pastie.org/2504886
[20:47] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: is filters.common tested (I don't think it is in develop) in nicetests/will it be?
[20:48] <Randomskk> it's not in nicetests
[20:48] <Randomskk> oh man, did I not write tests for it
[20:48] <Randomskk> man
[20:48] <Randomskk> I am suitably ashamed :(
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[20:50] <Randomskk> also haha http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/reddit-comment-movie-deal/
[20:53] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: do you think we add something to UKHASParser to forbid parsing to keys that begin with _ ?
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[20:53] <Randomskk> so to stop users specifying keys starting with _s?
[20:53] <Randomskk> yea probably a good idea
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[20:54] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: OK. I'll put it on the task list
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[21:04] <Randomskk> man. you'd think two hours would be like, enough time to get a 'new account set up' email
[21:04] <Randomskk> super fail
[21:04] <Randomskk> it's not like they've got 7k of my money or anything
[21:04] <Randomskk> wait
[21:04] <Randomskk> :|
[21:04] <Randomskk> I wonder if it has to go through a fleshy thing
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[21:20] <TimZaman> fsphil it seems my imageupdater doesnt want to update the image entirely
[21:20] <fsphil> stick a ?<some random number> after the file name
[21:20] <TimZaman> it refreshes the text, not the image "blockwise" at all..
[21:20] <fsphil> so blah.jpeg?586462
[21:20] <TimZaman> yeah thats what i read on the web too
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[21:21] <TimZaman> but i am not saving the images..?
[21:21] <TimZaman> or would it be like the fake filename
[21:21] <fsphil> the browser is caching it
[21:21] <TimZaman> y
[21:21] <fsphil> the number makes it load it again
[21:21] <Randomskk> did I not even docstring that filter
[21:22] <Randomskk> in my defense I think I was writing it pretty much live
[21:22] <Randomskk> oh yea I was in LHS with my macbook and we were trying to get darkside's telem parsing
[21:22] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: oh, whoops. Don't merge it yet
[21:22] <DanielRichman> there's a mistake
[21:22] <Randomskk> okay
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[21:27] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: done; #77 is good now
[21:28] <Randomskk> could simple_map catch the keyerror and reraise a valueerror?
[21:29] <Randomskk> I can't remember how upset it gets if a filter raises a weird error
[21:29] Action: Randomskk checks
[21:29] <Randomskk> hmm you know what
[21:29] <Randomskk> if a filter barfs things get sad
[21:29] <Randomskk> no matter value or key
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[21:30] <Randomskk> okay keep this as it is for now
[21:30] Action: Randomskk adds filter exception handling to list
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[21:30] <Randomskk> merged
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[21:31] <DanielRichman> will the process crash if a filter raises an exception?
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[21:32] <DanielRichman> oh, it looks like value errors are caught. I thought both value and key errors were caught
[21:32] <DanielRichman> okay. I should raise value errors.
[21:32] <Randomskk> value errors will get kind of caught
[21:32] <Randomskk> but like they'll make it think that parser can't do anything
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[21:32] <Randomskk> whereas maybe the filter should just let the data through untouched?
[21:33] <Randomskk> key errors will totally choke it out though
[21:33] <Randomskk> in fact will a key error make the entire parser quit?
[21:33] <DanielRichman> yes
[21:33] <Randomskk> that's bad
[21:33] <DanielRichman> yes.
[21:33] <DanielRichman> I'm going to have to restart the parser :D
[21:34] <DanielRichman> ok so our options are: catch KeyError and treat it as a ValueError in the parser, or make sure filters raise ValueError only (i.e., check every config[], every data[] and the map[])
[21:34] <Randomskk> well this being python we'd have the filters that might run into a keyerror reraise it as a valueerror but
[21:35] <Randomskk> I think really parser should catch filters messing up
[21:35] <Randomskk> keyerror, valueerror, indexerror etc
[21:35] <Randomskk> and just skip the filter
[21:35] <Randomskk> also I think parser should have a global catch
[21:35] <Randomskk> that'l catch anything besides exit
[21:35] <DanielRichman> but: in the future, we will treat valueerror as "oh, this string is invalid, logger.debug and forget about it"
[21:35] <Randomskk> or keyboardinterrupt or we
[21:35] <Randomskk> you're right
[21:35] <DanielRichman> will we treat keyerror the same, or consider keyerror to be something Bad that gets a logger.error
[21:36] <Randomskk> so keep filter raising keyerror (or valueerror or index or whatever is the issue)
[21:36] <Randomskk> then have parser catch a range of exceptions from filters
[21:36] <Randomskk> and treat it as "this filter made a boo boo, log it and carry on without the filter)
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[21:37] <DanielRichman> no but: if a KeyError can be caused by invalid data from the payload, then we shouldn't catch it in the same way that we're going to catch * from a filter
[21:37] <DanielRichman> also: we're gonna need to start deepcopying the dict given to postfilters if we are gonna roll back on error.
[21:37] <Randomskk> yes
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[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:37] <Randomskk> oh man, transactions huh
[21:38] <DanielRichman> okay: KeyError can be raised in those filters due to misconfiguration of the parser, or because the key in map was not found
[21:38] <Randomskk> how are they distinct?
[21:38] <DanielRichman> if I catch and rasie ValueError if the key in map{} isn't found, then the KeyErrors left are worthy of logger.error
[21:38] <Randomskk> I mean, where do they come up differently?
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[21:39] <DanielRichman> I dunno; for some reason I think that the payload sending an unexpected value meaning that the value couldn't be found in map{} is somehow less severe than being unable to find config["source"]; but now thinking about it they're both equally misconfigurations so equally... bad?
[21:39] <Randomskk> yea
[21:40] <Randomskk> I think we just let the parser catch filter issues
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[21:48] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: I have to go :-(; but I'm thinking of something like this https://github.com/danielrichman/habitat/compare/filter_exceptions <-- though it's a bit rushed. I kinda rashly reorganised quite a lot of stuff so feel free to object to some of the changes ;-)
[21:48] <Randomskk> a lot of the filter stuff is a bit rehashed in nicetests anyway, I'll have a look at it
[21:48] <Randomskk> seeya later!
[21:49] <Randomskk> that looks a lot neater
[21:49] <Randomskk> though I don't know if it's slightly less informative in a log
[21:49] <DanielRichman> bye! BTW: I'm thinking of a new milestone involving having parser's 'since' thing fixed so we can deploy with a little more slickness, nicetests and this filter stuff; and then probably the dl-fldigi stuff or the milestone is jsut stuff that you've taken on and that's not really fair
[21:50] <DanielRichman> logger.exception will include the full traceback; the whole way up
[21:50] <Randomskk> this is true
[21:50] <Randomskk> okay then
[21:50] <Randomskk> sounds like a good milestone
[21:51] <Randomskk> so I've been kind of crap this week due to a ton of boring stuff happening, but this weekend I hope to mostly wrap up tests (assuming I get back from jonsowman's party relatively sober by sunday...) and then next week I have some time to do stuff
[21:51] <Randomskk> the week after that I'm far far away all week though :P
[21:51] <Randomskk> so I guess it'd be great to get a milestone released before I go
[21:52] <DanielRichman> there's no need to sprint if you don't want to. I've currently got UCAS UCAS UCAS UCAS UCAS arrgh
[21:52] <DanielRichman> etc.
[21:52] <Randomskk> hahaha I know what that's like
[21:52] <Randomskk> tbh just put your module marks on your personal statement and leave it >_>
[21:53] <Randomskk> don't really do that. but you'd probably get offers anyway.
[21:53] <Randomskk> oh well, have fun with that :P
[21:53] <DanielRichman> ;-)
[21:55] <eroomde> guys quicky
[21:55] <Randomskk> hi eroomde
[21:55] <eroomde> what's that commonish greek sirname that is *very* approximately, but not actually, something like 'epfisthanou'
[21:56] <eroomde> i only have a sort of half-vague recollection of the sound and of the shape, that's roughly what it is, but it isn;t actually that
[21:57] <eroomde> surname*
[21:58] <eroomde> the one time ever i've wanted mixio to be around
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:58] <Laurenceb__> very subtle eroomde, very subtle
[22:00] Action: Laurenceb__ considers introducing eroomde to the trolls from #openpilot
[22:00] <Randomskk> are they good trolls though
[22:00] <Randomskk> I enjoy good trolls
[22:00] <Randomskk> https://github.com/fpletz/kernelroll
[22:00] <eroomde> what was subtle?
[22:01] <Laurenceb__> they have _issues_ with linux
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[22:01] <TimZaman> fsphil how exactly would the randomization protocol work?
[22:03] <eroomde> Laurenceb__: lost
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[22:04] <TimZaman> :(
[22:05] <TimZaman> anyone knows how to use the ?rand stuff to let a browser update an image so that it doesnt take an unupdated image from cache with the same name
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[22:05] <Randomskk> in what? javascript? php
[22:05] <TimZaman> php
[22:06] <Randomskk> use the timestamp
[22:06] <Randomskk> file.jpg?timestamp=<?php echo time() ?>
[22:06] <Randomskk> or something
[22:07] <TimZaman> omg.. figured out what i did wrong:
[22:07] <TimZaman> forgot the question mark
[22:07] Action: TimZaman slaps himself
[22:07] <TimZaman> i just use rand(0,666) which'd probably be good enough
[22:07] <TimZaman> thanks though
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[22:29] <fsphil> hehe
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[22:30] <fsphil> howdy Lunar_Lander
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> I am thinking about opening that Maxim bag with the T sensor and trying it out on the breadboard
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[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> what do you say fsphil?
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[22:56] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[23:01] <fsphil> I'm to sleepy to say anything :)
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[00:00] --- Fri Sep 9 2011