highaltitude.log.20110907

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[00:04] <TimZaman> mission control almost finished
[00:04] <TimZaman> fsphil: here?
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[02:41] <NigeyS> !top10
[02:41] <HAMBotty> Top10(words): 1. fsphil(67562) 2. Darkside(59760) 3. Randomskk(47872) 4. eroomde(39472) 5. SpeedEvil(36165) 6. Upu(32053) 7. Lunar_Lander(28855) 8. Dan-K2VOL(27674) 9. cuddykid(27647) 10. daveake(23810)
[02:42] <NigeyS> wow you guys talk to much :p
[02:42] <Darkside> oh man
[02:42] <NigeyS> hey Darkside :)
[02:42] <Darkside> i should aim for #1
[02:42] <NigeyS> lol
[02:42] <NigeyS> !stat Darkside
[02:42] <HAMBotty> Darkside: 59767 words, 315807 letters, 350 smilies, time wasted: 16 weeks 6 days 23 hours 13 minutes .
[02:43] <Darkside> loooool
[02:43] <NigeyS> 16 weeks.. fuck dude!!
[02:43] <Darkside> !stat NigeyS
[02:43] <HAMBotty> NigeyS: 22906 words, 119066 letters, 114 smilies, time wasted: 4 weeks 6 days 15 hours 39 minutes .
[02:43] <Darkside> :P
[02:43] <NigeyS> crazy eh
[02:43] <NigeyS> im so happy, ive got loads done on this cluster tonight :D
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[06:38] <RocketBoy> noooooooo - I missed fergus
[06:39] <eroomde> i think his adium client is just coming on an off
[06:39] <eroomde> i don;t think he's actually here properly
[06:39] <eroomde> this is not a fergus hour of the day for sure
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[06:41] <eroomde> what do you want of him? I could ping him not via t'internet
[06:43] <Darkside> one more micronut board constructed :-)
[06:43] <Darkside> now i just need radiometrix modules to make them work..
[06:43] <eroomde> are they on order?
[06:44] <Darkside> juxta has some
[06:44] <eroomde> i'll be interested to know how your pwm experiments go
[06:44] <Darkside> yeah
[06:44] <Darkside> so am i :P
[06:44] <eroomde> prresumably you need two different RC LPFs depending on if you're doing low-baud rtty or higher baud ax.25 or whatever it is aprs uses?
[06:46] <Darkside> for low baud RTTY i'd just do it as normal
[06:46] <Darkside> no LPF, just the voltage divider
[06:46] <Darkside> for AX25 i'd be using the PWM
[06:46] <eroomde> 'as normal'?
[06:46] <eroomde> oh i see
[06:46] <eroomde> sorry yes with a pd
[06:47] <eroomde> so you'd have to have many different ways to skin your cat
[06:47] <eroomde> could you not just use the same hardware for both?
[06:47] <Darkside> dunno
[06:52] <natrium42> ou est le upu?
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[06:57] <natrium42> upu est jamais la pour moi :(
[06:57] <natrium42> je suis si seul...
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[07:03] <eroomde> vous-ettes ne seul rien quand eroomde et ici
[07:03] <eroomde> when the moooon hits your eeeeyes like a big piiiizza pie that's a-naaaaatrium...
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[07:10] <natrium42> haha, hi eroomde
[07:10] <natrium42> bienvenue a #highaltitude
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[07:13] <eroomde> Societe de Haut Altitude Francais
[07:13] <eroomde> Societe de Haut Altitude Francais Technologique
[07:13] <eroomde> SHAFT
[07:13] <natrium42> :D
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[07:21] <natrium42> Dassault Mirage 100000
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[07:26] <fsphil> mornin... er... bonjour
[07:27] <natrium42> bonjour mon ami
[07:27] <natrium42> *mon frere de haut altitude
[07:29] <fsphil> I recently tried to speak english to a group of people who speak english and somehow it didn't work. weird that
[07:30] <fsphil> not sure who to file a bug report with
[07:31] <eroomde> did you speak northern irish to them?
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[07:31] <natrium42> fsphil: relevant --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea4P1f_AZBE
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[07:34] <fsphil> can't youtube yet, wait till tea time :)
[07:34] <fsphil> eroomde, a variation of it yea ;)
[07:34] <natrium42> kk
[07:35] <fsphil> was suppose to be a talk on hab'ing, but it was a bit rubbish
[07:35] <MickMondo> Good morning everyone, new to this so just trying it out.
[07:36] <fsphil> morning MickMondo!
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[07:44] <daveake> fsphil: carp-o-cam is now working under control of the flight computer
[07:44] <daveake> crap*
[07:44] <fsphil> oh sweet
[07:44] <fsphil> difficult job?
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[07:45] <daveake> Needed 3 transistors to do the control, but otherwise no
[07:45] Action: fsphil refrains from fish-related joke
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[07:45] <daveake> :)
[07:45] <daveake> 6 photos at approx 5-sec intervals, then 30secs video, then loop round. All starts at 30km
[07:45] <fsphil> good plan
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[07:46] <fsphil> most of the time those cameras give out at 10km cause of card space or battery
[07:46] <daveake> It has one shutter button - short press (I do 100ms) to take a photo, or long (I do 2s) to start a video then a short (100ms again) press to stop the video.
[07:46] <fsphil> this may be the first time they've been used >30km
[07:46] <daveake> :)
[07:46] <daveake> I don't need crap photos of below 30km :)
[07:46] <fsphil> lol
[07:47] <daveake> Or carp photos ;)
[07:47] <fsphil> nope def. not, something's gone wrong if that happens :)
[07:47] <daveake> Mind you, if does fly past any fish, that could make the news ...
[07:47] <daveake> ... or it's in the sea, which would be bad.
[07:48] <daveake> OK, carp live in lakes, not the sea.
[07:48] <number10> is crappo pointing horizontally or downwards
[07:48] <daveake> horizontal
[07:49] <daveake> I did a little state engine to cycle through the steps
[07:49] <daveake> Today I'll leave it running on a full charge to see how long the camera lipo lasts
[07:50] <number10> put it in the freezer
[07:50] <daveake> May need to aim the camera away; yesterday it just videod some gurning fool
[07:51] <number10> lol - who was that nen
[07:51] <number10> then
[07:51] <daveake> Ugly sod whoever it was
[07:52] <daveake> So, firmware all done now :)
[07:52] <number10> will be interesting to see how it goes - I got one, was thinking of sending it on a foil balloon - but with my current tracking setup I doubt if I would recover it - need to get a yagi
[07:52] <daveake> Testing and a bit of construction, then order the helium for 17th
[07:52] <daveake> Fingers crossed on the notam and the weather
[07:53] <fsphil> mmmm notam
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[07:56] <TimZaman> well, my predictions for this weekend have turned 90 degrees north
[07:56] <TimZaman> i cant sew CUSF can i
[07:56] <daveake> "sue" :)
[07:57] <TimZaman> hehehe
[07:57] <TimZaman> thought you wrote them the same
[07:57] <TimZaman> woulnt be too weird
[07:57] <TimZaman> boy named suer
[07:57] <TimZaman> sue
[07:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: PicoAtlas V launch (Mon 5/9/11 11:00BST)"
[07:59] <TimZaman> what are your experiences with the landing predictor 4 days in advance?
[08:00] <fsphil> depends on conditions - sometimes it's accurate to a week out, other times the 2-day prediction can change wildly
[08:00] <TimZaman> surely hope so
[08:00] <TimZaman> its going in the same lake it went in last time
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[08:00] <TimZaman> fsphil: did you see my mission control :)?
[08:00] <fsphil> did indeed, looking well!
[08:00] <TimZaman> a days work
[08:00] <fsphil> you mentioned something about the image order
[08:00] <TimZaman> friggin' ajax. friggin jquery. im such a perfectionist
[08:01] <TimZaman> fpsil yeah that probelm was with your images
[08:01] <TimZaman> when i made my own.. they were suddenly in order!
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[08:02] <TimZaman> fsphil: did you see the mangling of the images..?
[08:03] <TimZaman> they occur when i set the capture size to >800x600 px
[08:03] <TimZaman> (more than that)
[08:03] <TimZaman> Also, haha, my image score algorithm gives them a pretty high score, hahaha
[08:03] <fsphil> aah, yea I update some of the old images with packets I recovered after the flight so the order would be a bit off
[08:03] <TimZaman> ah you see that's it.
[08:03] <TimZaman> what do you think of my webcam icon
[08:03] <fsphil> loved that bit
[08:04] <TimZaman> man only when you check that out yourself you see what a bunch of work spacenear.us must have been
[08:04] <fsphil> yea- I started a simple little tracking program for the laptop and it's pretty difficult
[08:04] <TimZaman> with openstreetmaps or something?
[08:05] <TimZaman> also, i wondered, the live landing prediction doesnt work anymore, or?
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[08:05] <fsphil> yea, openstreetmaps
[08:05] <fsphil> oops
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[08:07] <fsphil> wb
[08:07] <TimZaman> and i checked track&trace, that said my 1600g balloons are in holland since yesterday
[08:07] <TimZaman> which means i am expecting them today
[08:08] <TimZaman> by the way, isnt an average decent rate of 5ms a bit slow?
[08:09] <fsphil> it'll only do that for the last bit of the descent
[08:09] <fsphil> the first 20km it'll drop like a stone
[08:09] <daveake> hopefully :)
[08:09] <TimZaman> the predictor doesnt take that in account?
[08:09] <fsphil> (or a feather in a vacuum)
[08:10] <TimZaman> whats a good tool to show you my image?
[08:10] <TimZaman> i know imageshack.. but i used something nice the other day.. what was it
[08:10] <fsphil> imgur?
[08:12] <TimZaman> y
[08:13] <TimZaman> http://i.imgur.com/zP7DT.jpg
[08:14] <TimZaman> that means if that prediction is accurate, and it will not go to the last 32km (lets say 29) it means it's going to say Oh Hi to the lake again
[08:14] <TimZaman> so i might do *two* payloads: my main, and the backup
[08:14] <TimZaman> since i already have a complete cutdown hotwire mechanism for the backup here
[08:15] <TimZaman> Oh Hellah yeah
[08:16] <TimZaman> for some reason, according to the predictor.. the wind changes on sunday in 3 hours around 90 degrees east! (=very good)
[08:16] <TimZaman> okay im doing it sunday.
[08:16] <number10> Tim - your mission control uses the data from fldigi I assume - how do you obtain the data from this - do you just access the log file?
[08:17] <TimZaman> number10: use JSON objects from the geeks that run the place here
[08:17] <daveake> I had something that - a big change from Saturday to Sunday, from a long way NE to a little way E. I went for the Sunday :)
[08:17] <TimZaman> phil runs the images, and (not sure) daniel, random, jcoxon and robert (upu?) run the tracker
[08:18] <number10> so the data is from the server via a internet rather than your local radio running fldigi Tim?
[08:18] <number10> the internet*
[08:20] <TimZaman> number10: yeah nothing local
[08:21] <TimZaman> i severely disrecommend (word please?) running anything offline
[08:21] <TimZaman> one of the cool things is this community, which you should keep in touch with
[08:23] <number10> yes - I can see that - thats why I have been trying to help a little with the tracking - has been OK for high altitudes but did not manage the PICO as do not have a yagi yet
[08:23] <TimZaman> yeah cant blame you for the last PICO :)
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[08:25] <number10> :) also I was at work - and getting a few strage looks sticking the antenna out of the window
[08:25] <daveake> :)
[08:26] <daveake> I tried but didn't get a peep from that one
[08:26] <RocketBoy> TimZaman: the descent rate in the predictor is the sea level descent rate - not average - ie its the landing speed in most cases - the predictor includes an exponential decay descent model as you would expect
[08:26] <RocketBoy> 5m/s is a good landing speed to aim for
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[08:27] <eroomde> TimZaman: 'discourage' or 'recommend against', fyi ;)
[08:27] <TimZaman> thanks
[08:28] <TimZaman> RocketBoy: yeah i saw that in the latest flights.. but my first balloon descended with >10m/s :P
[08:29] <TimZaman> i did have a sphereacute though, though didnt work i guess
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[08:29] <RocketBoy> tangle?
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[08:29] <RocketBoy> was that the one that landed in the lake
[08:30] <TimZaman> RocketBoy: confiremd
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[08:30] <RocketBoy> did you get an idea why the chute didn't work?
[08:30] <TimZaman> RocketBoy: i didnt have a long wire as for instance i have seen juxta have. i think my payload-to-balloon distance was 4 meter
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[08:30] <TimZaman> RocketBoy: none at all.. people here recommended me a "ring"
[08:31] <TimZaman> RocketBoy: also, since we're chatting, any tips on inflating the balloon?
[08:31] <RocketBoy> I don't use a ring either
[08:31] <RocketBoy> use helium
[08:31] <TimZaman> or better, what not to do with a balloon. Did you ever destroy one?
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[08:31] <TimZaman> im getting my 5cu.m tomorrow
[08:31] <RocketBoy> I heve seen them burst and let go accidentally
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[08:32] <eroomde> unless it was a fundamental crap parachute, it should inflate. Suggesting that perhaps there were issues with the balloon remnants tangling with the parachute?
[08:32] <TimZaman> eroomde: well the entire balloon was on, yes. probably there was a problem with that.
[08:33] <eroomde> RocketBoy: oh i did a bit of reading up
[08:33] <eroomde> for cross-form parachutes, you want as aspect ratio of about 4+:1 on the stripts for stability
[08:34] <RocketBoy> to avoid tangle Either use rjharrisions rule of thirds on the line - or use a cut-off to detatch the balloon IMOto avoid tangle
[08:34] <eroomde> ideally more
[08:34] <eroomde> 3:1 will be *unstable*
[08:35] <number10> RocketBoy: can you be more specific on the thirds rule from RJH
[08:35] <RocketBoy> I had another problem with cross-forms - the line from the ballon remnants cones across only one of the segments
[08:35] <RocketBoy> turs them into a propeller
[08:35] <RocketBoy> turns
[08:36] <eroomde> payload<-----2*a_length_of_string----->parachute<--a_length_of_string-->balloon
[08:36] <RocketBoy> so if your using cross form would recommend a cut-off
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[08:40] <eroomde> number10: it's not a 'rule' by any stretch
[08:40] <eroomde> it's simply saying one way of sizing things is to make it such that the balloon remnantas, if they are going to flop down, do not hit the payload
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[08:41] <number10> is it three times the length between chute and ballon compared to chute and payload?
[08:41] <eroomde> two times
[08:42] <eroomde> payload<----2a---->parachute<--a-->balloon
[08:42] <eroomde> but of course it doesn't matter at all
[08:42] <number10> cheers eroomde
[08:42] <eroomde> that;s just if you arbitrarily decide to make it thirds
[08:42] <eroomde> it could be anything
[08:42] <number10> yes I see -
[08:43] <eroomde> i get jumpy when people start talking about 'rules' and even giving them titles :)
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[08:44] <fsphil> phil's rule: "just cut the tree down"
[08:44] <number10> I appreciate that - but its a usefull starting point to gain someknowledge
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[08:46] <number10> fsphil are you going to have two seperate cutdowns - one to release the baloon and one to release the payload if stuck in a tree
[08:46] <RocketBoy> grrrr - wifii - eroomde: thanks for the info on aspect ratio of Xforms
[08:47] <fsphil> number10, just the tree-free one
[08:47] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:47] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, 37g
[08:47] <number10> fsphil do you have rx on the balloon to activate that
[08:47] <number10> morning jcoxon
[08:47] <RocketBoy> jcoxon - ta
[08:48] <RocketBoy> as expected
[08:48] <jcoxon> i only weighed one balloon
[08:48] <jcoxon> do you want me to weigh the rest?
[08:48] <RocketBoy> if you have the time - just to make sure they don't vary
[08:49] <RocketBoy> but i doubt they will
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[08:52] <jcoxon> is anyone actually using google+ here?
[08:52] <eroomde> no
[08:52] <eroomde> i have it
[08:52] <eroomde> but haven't touched it
[08:52] <eroomde> i'm not sure what you do with it
[08:52] <fsphil> number10, timer likely
[08:53] <daveake> Same here. Have it. Tried it. Not touched it since.
[08:53] <number10> fsphil: I think it was ed that said in one case the payload was caught in a tree above a river :(
[08:53] <TimZaman> fsphil: any tips on a simple but nice frame around the pictures as you have?
[08:54] <fsphil> yea, jcoxon's ballast halo 4
[08:54] <fsphil> saved by a tree :)
[08:54] <jcoxon> i have a picture!
[08:56] <jcoxon> well i would if yahoo would login
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[08:59] <eroomde> i am having yahoo login problems too
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[09:06] <jcoxon> number10, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/4383328360/in/set-72157623226106480
[09:07] <eroomde> i think my favourite hab photo
[09:07] <jcoxon> and we'd take off some line before hand to attach the balloon to the tank
[09:07] <jcoxon> so if we hadn't it would be in water
[09:08] <eroomde> was that a launch i was involved in?
[09:08] <number10> that is good jcoxon, I think fsphil you should have a long timer on your auto cutdown
[09:09] <Darkside> ok, tiem to fuck about with 1200 baud RTTY
[09:10] <number10> language Darkside! ;)
[09:10] <Darkside> bler
[09:10] <eroomde> he's aussie
[09:11] <number10> I see he is now implementing block error rate on his 1200 transmission - how is that going to work
[09:11] <number10> or does bler mean summint else
[09:13] <Darkside> bler means blerrrgh
[09:13] <Darkside> an express of dismay or disgust
[09:14] <eroomde> or a basic phonym of liverpudlian
[09:14] <eroomde> phoneme*
[09:16] <fsphil> hehe, someone stole the phone line from outside our doncaster office
[09:16] <number10> copper theft is quite high round here
[09:17] <fsphil> happens all the time? it's been known to happen here but not too often
[09:18] <number10> builders murchant down the road continually gets the earth stolen to quite a large site
[09:18] <number10> from substation
[09:19] <fsphil> that's madness
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[09:25] <Darkside> hmm
[09:25] <Darkside> fsphil: what was the link to the interrupt RTTY code?
[09:26] <daveake> fsphil, number10: crap-0-cam timing test (at room temp) done. Lasted for just under 1 hour.
[09:26] <Darkside> nvm fsphil got it
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[09:32] <number10> daveake: in your sequence do you power the camera down between eac still and the video section
[09:32] <number10> +h
[09:32] <daveake> nope
[09:33] <daveake> It turns it on at 30km, then 6 photos at 5-sec intervals, then 30secs video, then loops round again
[09:34] <number10> the one that I have seems to power it self down if you dont take a photo - I have not tested to see how long this is
[09:35] <daveake> Not tried mine after. I could switch it off in the code. I'm happy with the way it is, but it could for example wake up, do its thing for a minute, then switch off for a minute before repeating
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[09:40] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, weighed the rest of the balloons
[09:40] <jcoxon> all between 36 and 38g
[09:40] <RocketBoy> cheers - not much variation there
[09:41] <RocketBoy> wonder if NigeyS measured the volume last night
[09:42] <SamSIlver_> jcoxon: with regard to superpreasure; would it not be better to have a large number of balloons going to superpreasure?
[09:44] <SamSIlver_> if you compare say 4 balloons with same payload but with 10 balloons
[09:46] <Hibby> coffee o'clock
[09:47] <jcoxon> wow i ordered fsa03 yesteday evening and they've already arrived
[09:47] <Laurenceb> where from?
[09:48] <jcoxon> sequouia
[09:49] <number10> did you get 2 jcoxon
[09:51] <number10> the pricing is a little strange
[09:51] <jcoxon> yes
[09:51] <jcoxon> definitely get 2
[09:51] <daveake> bogoff?
[09:52] <number10> i wonder what the would charge for 10..
[09:53] <number10> no bogoff - one for £40.21 and two for £24.79
[09:53] <number10> each
[09:53] <daveake> wow
[09:54] <WillDuckworth> jcoxon - are they the modules you have to set the mode each time they power on? or do they remember
[09:54] <WillDuckworth> good service though
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[09:56] <jcoxon> WillDuckworth, sadly yes
[09:56] <WillDuckworth> not too difficult to sort - thanks to your tips jcoxon ;) any idea of weight?
[09:57] <jcoxon> 9g
[09:57] <jcoxon> but as soon as you start using it
[09:57] <jcoxon> you need to glue the antenna
[09:58] <jcoxon> as we've had a number of cases were the antenna has weakened
[09:59] <WillDuckworth> i think it might be worth getting a couple
[10:00] <fsphil> any luck Darkside?
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[10:00] <fsphil> looks like my fsa03 from hadie:3 has been damaged by it's stay in the tree. everything's really unstable when it's plugged in now
[10:00] <fsphil> though it still gets a lock
[10:02] <jcoxon> bbl
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[10:06] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I'd try baking it
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> maybe a rinse in distilled water
[10:07] <fsphil> even after all this time?
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> yes
[10:08] <number10> it will still taste good ;)
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> Dissolved salts precipitating out can do wierd stuff
[10:08] <number10> sorry
[10:08] <fsphil> well worth a try, thanks
[10:09] <eroomde> number10: re: earlier convo
[10:09] <eroomde> http://blog.jgc.org/2011/03/gaga-1-stack.html
[10:09] <eroomde> a picture is worth a thousand ascii diagrams
[10:10] <number10> thats cool - thanks eroomde
[10:10] <number10> allthough I think the second ascii diagram was good
[10:12] <Darkside> hmm, i can't get 1200 baud working
[10:12] <Darkside> 600 works
[10:13] <Darkside> it could be it isnt sending enough data to get a decent lock on the baud rate
[10:13] <eroomde> what do you hypothesise is the issue?
[10:13] <eroomde> maybe just send RY indefinitely
[10:13] <Darkside> yeah
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[10:13] <fsphil> use 2 stop bits, I found it unreliable to use anything less
[10:13] <Darkside> ooh ok
[10:14] <fsphil> getting the shift right is important too, and keep the tuning to the middle of the waterfall too
[10:14] <eroomde> question for anyone
[10:15] <Darkside> i've got the shift at 600 Hz
[10:15] <eroomde> the atmega328p datasheet reports only the following packages: TQFP, PDIP, MLF
[10:15] <eroomde> but farnell is selling them as QFN
[10:15] <TimZaman> Darkside: 1200 baud was not very good with me too
[10:15] <eroomde> anyone know if this is legit or a dodgy knock-off?
[10:15] <TimZaman> Darkside: 1200baud only worked with images for some reason, not at all with strings
[10:15] <eroomde> 1200 - the VCO hammering the transitions such that you're loosing too much energy in the symbols?
[10:16] <eroomde> sorry, not the VCO, the LPF
[10:16] <Darkside> i dunno eroomde
[10:16] <Darkside> its just not working at 1200 baud
[10:16] <Darkside> 600 is fine
[10:16] <Darkside> i might fly a 600 baud payload at some point
[10:16] <fsphil> odd
[10:17] <TimZaman> Darkside: i'll be testing that this sunday.
[10:17] <TimZaman> fsphil: as i said yesterday, i'm not positive about the 1200 baud. Maybe i will send just two images at 1200 as a test.
[10:19] <fsphil> Darkside, the crystal you're using, can it divide properly to do 1200?
[10:20] <Darkside> dunno
[10:20] <Darkside> its probably not exact enough
[10:20] <fsphil> yea
[10:20] <fsphil> the one I have divides exactly, but it's a real odd value
[10:20] <TimZaman> included compass bearing and vertical bearing in mission control http://www.timzaman.nl/?page_id=1332&lang=en
[10:22] <Darkside> yeah oh well
[10:22] <Darkside> well, i'll fly a 600 baud payload as an experiment in october
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[10:24] <fsphil> we could add a 1000 baud option :)
[10:24] <TimZaman> cheeky
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> you only need to be within 5% or so max.
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> 2.5% is generally within the ideal range
[10:38] <number10> Darkside - are you using two pins to drive the NTX2
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[10:44] <m1x10> Hello
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[10:45] <m1x10> hello RocketBoy
[10:45] <RocketBoy> hey
[10:45] <m1x10> RocketBoy: still have 1x H1600g and 1x 1m-chute ?
[10:46] <RocketBoy> yep
[10:46] <m1x10> good stock or ending?
[10:47] <fsphil> these 1600's are suddenly popular :)
[10:47] <m1x10> fsphil: its 90% that i get a job
[10:47] <m1x10> :)
[10:47] <fsphil> oh sweet
[10:47] <fsphil> nice one
[10:48] <m1x10> today i went for 2nd interview in the big insurance company
[10:48] <m1x10> they asked to make an RJ-45 Straight-through STP cable
[10:48] <m1x10> i said yes and i made it
[10:48] <m1x10> :)
[10:49] <m1x10> and then they started asking things about cisco routers and linux
[10:49] <fsphil> nice - stp difficult? we don't use it here so I've never had to crimp one. just utp everywhere
[10:49] <m1x10> and i was all ok
[10:49] <m1x10> yes utp, sorry.
[10:49] <RocketBoy> m1x10 - just checking orders over the last few days
[10:49] <m1x10> they have a big server room
[10:49] <m1x10> which is cold !
[10:49] <fsphil> yea, we keep ours fairly chilly
[10:50] <fsphil> have to have a coat on when working in there
[10:50] <m1x10> they need me as technician mostly
[10:50] <m1x10> setup servers routers desktop pc and networks
[10:50] <m1x10> little or zero software dev
[10:50] <m1x10> some web dev
[10:51] <m1x10> and they give 800euro clean and 150 euro for insurance
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[10:51] <m1x10> i think for a start its ok. i have no working experience. its my first job.
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[10:52] <m1x10> RocketBoy: good stock or ending?
[10:52] <RocketBoy> like I said - im just checking orders over the last couple of days - then i'll tell you
[10:54] <m1x10> You was disconnected. We didnt receive that.
[10:55] <m1x10> Ok, let me now. Today I will ask my bro to lend me the money.
[10:55] <m1x10> let me know*
[11:00] <RocketBoy> about 40% of my 1600 stock has gone - but then i was expecting a bit of a rush for them
[11:00] <RocketBoy> so your probably going to be ok
[11:00] <daveake> :)
[11:01] <RocketBoy> I'll let you know if I get low
[11:01] <RocketBoy> ask me agian in a weeks time
[11:02] <RocketBoy> predicting demand is a nightmare
[11:02] <fsphil> http://www.ebuyer.com/267867-emachine-er1401-desktop-pt-nbzec-004 <-- possibly a good car computer
[11:02] <RocketBoy> there seems no logic to it
[11:02] <RocketBoy> bbl
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[11:04] <eroomde> fsphil: agreed
[11:04] <eroomde> could be nice
[11:04] <eroomde> i quite want such a thing too
[11:04] <eroomde> a nat for a usb 3g dongle
[11:04] <TimZaman> fsphil: could just buy a netbook
[11:05] <eroomde> and something to run habitat when the time comes
[11:05] <eroomde> yeah the netbook has the advantage of sitting nicely on my glove compartment shelf
[11:05] <fsphil> I have a little eeepc but the screen is too small
[11:05] <fsphil> also the battery is dead so I have to run it off a big battery
[11:05] <TimZaman> m1x10: told you you should get a job =)
[11:05] <eroomde> i guess for 'big# chases where you have rear-seat ops, it could come into its own
[11:06] <eroomde> you could get a decent lcd hooked over the pack of a ffront seat
[11:06] <fsphil> rear-seat ops is my normal setup even for small chases :)
[11:06] <TimZaman> congratulations, but dont get too excited until you sign anything
[11:06] <eroomde> fsphil: oh luxury!
[11:06] <fsphil> ;)
[11:06] <TimZaman> fsphil: i've got a dell netbook, battery is amazing, seriously 10 hours
[11:06] <eroomde> for a long time CUSF chases were me driving and fergus in the passenger seat
[11:06] <fsphil> ooh that's good
[11:06] <eroomde> it was quite nice
[11:07] <eroomde> like a mid-life-crisis version of being a figher pilot with weapons man behind you
[11:07] <fsphil> I'm a bit inexperienced at driving so I get a friend or family member to do it :)
[11:07] <eroomde> fair enough
[11:07] <eroomde> it's difficult driving and 'chasing'
[11:08] <fsphil> the next one should be interesting- hopefully have recruited a few local hams to join the chase
[11:08] <eroomde> usually a radio op and a control op (barking instructions to driver) and maybe a comms op talking to IRC and doing other meta things is best
[11:08] <eroomde> so 4
[11:08] <eroomde> but we don't get the chance to do that so often
[11:08] <fsphil> nice
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[11:09] <eroomde> infact it's been a while since a proper cusf flight and chase
[11:09] <eroomde> we got so side-swiped by ESA work
[11:09] <fsphil> it's fun juggling all the windows, irc, dl-fldigi, ssdv, tracker window.. all while not being able to see the screen cause it's too bright
[11:09] <jonsowman> eroomde: hoping to do a fair few this coming year
[11:09] <fsphil> all while moving the O2 dongle about cause you can't get a connection
[11:10] <TimZaman> fsphil: exactly why i put the stuff together
[11:10] <fsphil> my favourite bit of a balloon launch to be honest :)
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[11:14] <TimZaman> fsphil: hahahahahahaha look what i stumpled upon
[11:14] <TimZaman> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6lZzY4wagA&feature=player_embedded
[11:16] <Laurenceb> theres no way those are the actual trees
[11:16] <eroomde> any osx users know if avr crosspack works ok with lion?
[11:18] <fsphil> oooh I can't watch it yet
[11:18] <fsphil> *bookmarked*
[11:20] <TimZaman> whats the latest fldigi version
[11:20] <TimZaman> fsphil: did you do something with it the last 2 weeks?
[11:23] <daveake> OK, we so need a HAB KML with the payload landing in and hanging from one of those trees
[11:25] <Darkside> ok, i now have code to pump the temp sensor IDs out via RTTY :P
[11:25] <Darkside> because i have no other way of reading them
[11:28] <TimZaman> cablestripping
[11:28] <TimZaman> god aweful
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[11:28] <fsphil> TimZaman, I did but it's not been merged in with the main branch yet
[11:29] <TimZaman> ah right
[11:29] <TimZaman> what updates
[11:29] <fsphil> few bug fixes mostly
[11:29] <TimZaman> k
[11:29] <fsphil> you can compare the branches on github
[11:30] <TimZaman> got a meeting with uni staff, for going on their roof this sunday muhaha, seeing if there is wifi somewhere
[11:30] <TimZaman> fsphil: ohohohoh
[11:30] <TimZaman> yea
[11:30] <TimZaman> updating the image! prio #1 imo
[11:30] Action: m1x10 is installing ArchLinux in his laptop
[11:31] <TimZaman> fsphil: unraveling the shield of the wire, man, im doing that now; you have the patience of a monk
[11:31] <fsphil> indeed :) I should have time this-evening to look at that
[11:31] <fsphil> ooh that bit is evil
[11:31] <fsphil> did it on monday, took about 30 minutes
[11:31] <TimZaman> yep
[11:31] <TimZaman> any tips?
[11:32] <fsphil> none really. I just used a fine pointed screwdriver and did a little bit at a time
[11:32] <fsphil> too much and it tangles
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[11:32] <fsphil> mmm imagine making one for 144mhz
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[11:33] <TimZaman> yep thatd be crappy
[11:34] <TimZaman> got an rg58
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[11:39] <TimZaman> fsphil: now at 4cm
[11:39] <TimZaman> lets see 4cm.. 7 minutes
[11:39] <TimZaman> damn you are fast
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[11:48] <fsphil> just impatient :) I rushed near the end, lost some of the little strands
[11:48] <TimZaman> im half way, lost 1~2
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[12:20] <fsphil> heh, ebuyer's free shipping to n.ireland costs £10. odd that :)
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[12:22] <SpeedEvil> Why unravel the shield?
[12:23] <fsphil> the ground plane is made by splitting it in four
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> strip off the outers, make a bit of slack in the sleeve, pull the centre conductor through the sleeve
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:23] <SpeedEvil> Or solder on four wires, if you're remotely sane.
[12:24] <fsphil> I didn't want any solder in it
[12:24] <fsphil> no weak points
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[13:16] <eroomde> fsphil: what are you making?
[13:17] <daveake> Made my antenna like this - http://imgur.com/LHVgq - 4 arms bent and soldered together to make a cicle (ish) into which I pushed a grommet
[13:18] <eroomde> looks nice
[13:18] <eroomde> carefully calibrated inductive loading coil at the end?
[13:18] <eroomde> (rhetorical question)
[13:19] <daveake> Anti-poking-out-someone's-eye loop
[13:19] <daveake> :)
[13:20] <NigelMoby> Morning
[13:21] <Darkside> mmm, my antenna isn't going to be exremely precise..
[13:21] <Darkside> i'm going to use the centre conductor of a bit of coax as the main element, and solder other wires onto the shield
[13:27] <eroomde> ah, so fsphil is making is ground elements by unweaving the co-ax shield and re-bundling it into four radials?
[13:28] <eroomde> s/four/n
[13:28] <Darkside> yeah thats how he did it
[13:28] <eroomde> that sounds masochistic
[13:28] <Darkside> actually that would work well on the next payload
[13:28] <eroomde> just solder on some new wires :)
[13:28] <Darkside> its surprisingly easy
[13:28] <Darkside> heh
[13:28] <Darkside> you just need something with a sharp point
[13:28] <Darkside> the hard part is getting the outer insulation off without cutting the shield
[13:28] <Darkside> but it makes for a ridiculously light antenna
[13:29] <eroomde> oh i see
[13:29] <Darkside> i'll probably do it for this weekends launch (if it happens)
[13:29] <fsphil> and pretty hard to break too
[13:30] <fsphil> I made it without as few possible breaks or solder points as possible. the soldering I think is what failed me on the yorkshire flight
[13:30] <eroomde> you should spay all of them out into n radials where n -s the number of strands
[13:30] <Darkside> eroomde: die
[13:30] <eroomde> n is*
[13:30] <eroomde> sure, i'll die
[13:30] <Darkside> :P
[13:30] <fsphil> nah :)
[13:30] <daveake> This is also light - http://i.imgur.com/bmVvh.jpg
[13:31] <eroomde> but i'll be dieing on the the altar of perfect impedance matching
[13:31] <daveake> (awaits comments from Darkside about sub-optimal aerodynamics)
[13:31] <daveake> You'll die at ohm?
[13:31] <daveake> (sorry)
[13:31] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/predict/#!/uuid=6b8923a74e67f50f4f148fbff1cb5069e60d1cb2 thats an interesting prediction
[13:31] <eroomde> here is my antenna: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/set-72157624203062811
[13:32] <Darkside> it looks like in the final 10km it really goes fast towards the coast
[13:32] <eroomde> ignore the cardboard box on the bottom
[13:32] <Darkside> s/antenna/sex toy/
[13:32] <daveake> lol
[13:32] <eroomde> a sex toy you can throw down the stairs with confidence
[13:33] <Darkside> did you try that?
[13:33] <eroomde> better than a gf therefore
[13:33] <eroomde> yes
[13:33] <eroomde> i made it to take a beating
[13:33] <Darkside> heh
[13:33] <eroomde> it was just going to be a dumb tracker that just works
[13:33] <Darkside> so hmm, why does it move so fast above 36km?
[13:33] <eroomde> it was made for a multi-payload flight
[13:33] <Darkside> and where is the upper troposphere wind data coming from?
[13:34] <Darkside> none of the met bureau sondes get that high
[13:34] <number10> whats that covering the radials eroomde? starws?
[13:34] <eroomde> heatshrink
[13:34] <number10> ah - need beeter glasses
[13:34] <eroomde> they are heatshrunk onto thick cable ties
[13:34] <eroomde> this makes them strong but flexible
[13:34] <eroomde> and the radiating element is embedded in some pipe insulation
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[13:35] <eroomde> then there was an android phone and then these two payloads: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721966581/in/set-72157624203062811
[13:36] <eroomde> one biology sampling experiment, and one pegasus from jcoxon
[13:36] <eroomde> so 4 payloads total
[13:36] <m1x10> nice, im using xchat on archlinux - thats my first sentence :)
[13:36] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4722632458/in/set-72157624203062811
[13:37] <eroomde> jcoxon's nicely developing bald patch
[13:38] <number10> thats spinning quite a bit on take off in the video - is it on a swivel
[13:39] <eroomde> i think just the lines untwisting themselves
[13:39] <eroomde> it caled down
[13:39] <eroomde> calmed*
[13:39] <number10> looks like you had some fun there it CUSF
[13:39] <eroomde> well, that was a launch of several people
[13:39] <eroomde> so i guess more of a ukhas launch
[13:39] <eroomde> those are good fun
[13:40] <eroomde> lots of interesting data from different payloads, lots of fun trying to get everyone ready for a launch at the alloted time UTC ISH
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[13:40] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
[13:40] <number10> a fair number of people
[13:40] <Darkside> eroomde: when was this?
[13:40] <eroomde> hrm, last year or earlier this year
[13:40] <Dan-K2VOL> any of you guys presenting at the UKHAS conference?
[13:40] <eroomde> last year
[13:40] <eroomde> yeah
[13:40] <eroomde> summer
[13:40] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: yup
[13:41] <Dan-K2VOL> I found out from the Hackspace that the projector is 4:3 aspect ratio, but they're not sure if it's 800x600 or 1024x768
[13:41] <Darkside> 800x600
[13:41] <Darkside> bring a projector
[13:41] <eroomde> it seems like demand is significantly higher than space available at the hackspace
[13:41] <Darkside> yeah
[13:41] <Darkside> there wouldn't be enough space at the hackerspace for what you guys want to do
[13:41] <eroomde> indeed
[13:42] <Dan-K2VOL> pleasant problem to have!
[13:42] <eroomde> i wonder if Upu and/or jcoxon are looking into alternatives
[13:42] <Dan-K2VOL> going to just stick it out and let the overflow stream?
[13:42] <eroomde> there's obviously lots of interest!
[13:42] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd recommend posting to the US lists about the stream, I'm sure there's plenty of people who'll watch
[13:42] <number10> I was going to ask here if the training room could be used by outsiders - but human resouces manager off sick
[13:43] <Dan-K2VOL> (and I can do that post, but I feel like it would be more apropos from a UKHAS person directly)
[13:43] <eroomde> london would be easiest. but there's certainly an arguement for cambridge
[13:43] <eroomde> it being the the bright spot on the uk heatmap of launches
[13:44] <Darkside> hey eroomde, just looking at the CASA regs for balloons
[13:44] <number10> I am sure everyone travelling would rather be at london at the weekend rather than the science park here
[13:44] <eroomde> yup
[13:44] <eroomde> tho cam is easy to get to if you can get to london
[13:44] <Darkside> small balloon (i.e. no launch permission needed): small balloon means a free balloon that can carry no more than 50 grams of payload
[13:44] <eroomde> and we have plenty of pubs
[13:44] <Darkside> i think an underfilled 2kg balloon fits that description >_>
[13:44] <eroomde> hrm and perhaps a hack space!
[13:44] <eroomde> Darkside: ah i see
[13:45] <eroomde> cunning
[13:45] <Darkside> :P
[13:45] <Darkside> well if we underfull it to the point wher eit has maybe 150g neck lift
[13:45] <Darkside> (eek)
[13:45] <eroomde> number10: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3862833557/in/set-72157622162980562/
[13:45] <eroomde> this is one of the best tracking spots in all of the uk
[13:45] <eroomde> it's the nice decking on the roof of the engineering department
[13:45] <Darkside> hmm the balloon specs are undefined for the hwoyee 2kg balloon
[13:45] <Darkside> why is that?
[13:45] <eroomde> it has line of sight basically to holland
[13:46] <number10> that looks like a noce place to track from
[13:46] <Upu> eroomde not looking at alternatives just keeping numbers down and streaming for the rest
[13:46] <Darkside> Upu: there isnt much space at the hackerspace
[13:46] <Darkside> seriously
[13:46] <Upu> I know
[13:46] <Darkside> its not suited for a conference
[13:46] <Darkside> at all
[13:47] <eroomde> i am rather inclined to agree
[13:47] <eroomde> more than about 7 or 8 in that room will get uncomfortable
[13:47] <Upu> I'll speak to jcoxon tonight
[13:47] <Upu> lol
[13:47] <Upu> so 25 is out then ?
[13:47] <Darkside> very much so
[13:47] <Upu> appears my information has been duff
[13:47] <Darkside> you need to find a proper conference space
[13:47] <Upu> I'll have a chat this evening
[13:48] <fsphil> I can go on a diet between now and then
[13:48] <eroomde> Upu: if cambridge is doable then I can talk to churchill college
[13:48] <eroomde> they are very pro-ballooning
[13:48] <eroomde> and it's properly set up for conferences
[13:48] <Upu> only issue is people have flights and accomodation booked for london
[13:48] <eroomde> but i appreciate that london is much easier for people
[13:48] <eroomde> and worth persuing
[13:48] <eroomde> ah yes valid point
[13:48] <Darkside> does anyone have the data for the hwoyee 2kg balloons? i.e. burst diameter and Balloon Cd?
[13:48] <Upu> let me have a chat about it this evening
[13:48] <Upu> btw
[13:49] <Darkside> or should i use the kaymont data
[13:49] <Upu> If someone sees Steve Randall on it looks like Hwoyee have signed up a single dealer in the US for Hwoyee balloons
[13:49] <Upu> might be worth doing the same here so we don't have our asses handed to us when we need them
[13:50] <eroomde> Darkside: http://cusf.co.uk/calc/
[13:50] <Darkside> eroomde: the hwoyee 2kg data is undefined
[13:51] <Darkside> take a look at the fields when you select a hwoyee 2000g
[13:51] <eroomde> ignore that then
[13:51] <Darkside> also eroomde Target burst altitude is too high! (greater than 40km)
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> You can probably assume the cd is the same. The burst diameter has to be around double, if they're bursting at 40km, not 35 though
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> err
[13:51] <eroomde> hrm, steve said that they came with altitude/payload-mass tuples
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> not double
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> volume
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> cube root of 2 times higher
[13:52] <eroomde> so he reverse engineered burst volumes from them
[13:52] <eroomde> assuming this, that and the other about equilibriums and pressure deltas
[13:52] <eroomde> suck it and see
[13:52] <Darkside> damn
[13:52] <Darkside> well yeah, burst calculator isn't letting me get anything >41km really
[13:52] <Darkside> but i dont think its going to be anywhere near accurate for these altitudes
[13:53] <eroomde> hrm, i'm quite sure i used some hoywee data to calculate 41km for horus 15.5
[13:53] <eroomde> where did that come from?
[13:53] <Darkside> hwoyee 1600g
[13:53] <Darkside> as i said, theres data for 1600g, but not 2000g
[13:53] <eroomde> that'd be it
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[13:54] <Darkside> i'll probably be assembling the payload tomorrow
[13:54] <number10> just asked about training room here - problem with security as this building houses two other companies - so I think thats a no - main building has large meeting room - but not sure of capacity
[13:54] <Darkside> or at least getting a rough idea on the weight
[13:54] <Darkside> i'm hoping to keep it <100g
[13:55] <eroomde> Darkside: are you planning an immenant launch?
[13:55] <Darkside> maybe...
[13:55] <Darkside> theres a possibility to launch this weekend
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[13:55] <Darkside> if the conditions get better
[13:56] <Darkside> the launch won't have a pressure sensore on it btw
[13:56] <Darkside> i can't get either of the pressure sensors on the payloads i have to work
[13:57] <eroomde> on the micronuts?
[13:57] <Darkside> mininuts
[13:57] <Darkside> micronuts don't have pressure sensors
[13:59] <eroomde> odd that they don't work
[13:59] <eroomde> oh well
[13:59] <Darkside> yeah sucks a bit
[13:59] <Darkside> gps data will have to do
[14:02] <eroomde> i wonder if there are better ways of measuring low pressures
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> Thermal methods don't really work at such high pressures alas
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> as conduction is basically constant to under a pascal or several
[14:03] <eroomde> can one use a laaaaaseeer?
[14:03] <eroomde> just to use one
[14:04] <Randomskk> I'm all up for using more lasers
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> In principle - maybe.
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> A 1W blue laser-diode has a fairly energetic spot
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> If you focus it
[14:06] <eroomde> we could use it as a cutdown then too
[14:06] <Randomskk> haha yes
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[14:07] <Randomskk> could you burst the balloon with it?
[14:07] <Randomskk> or melt through the line? :P
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> I think it is pretty much impossible - it starts out due to multiphoton absorbtion in air, which needs huge densities
[14:08] <Randomskk> or long distances - you could mount mirrors a few m apart and bounce between them a lot
[14:08] <eroomde> yes
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> 10^12W/cm^2
[14:08] <eroomde> but that would have to measure ToF
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> I see mentioned for 200nm
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> Even with a wavelength sized spot, that's not happening
[14:12] <Randomskk> :( well what could we use a laser for
[14:12] <eroomde> scan the balloon
[14:12] <eroomde> for super mega accurate volume estimation
[14:12] <eroomde> and not just to look pretty
[14:13] <Randomskk> haha
[14:14] <Randomskk> you can only see half the balloon from the payload though
[14:14] <daveake> A camera could measure the balloon size. But don't let me stop you from using a laser ...
[14:14] <Randomskk> not as accurately!
[14:14] <Randomskk> as LIDAR.
[14:14] <eroomde> if only it was capitalised alreay
[14:14] <eroomde> wasn't*
[14:15] <eroomde> i'd capitalise it
[14:15] <eroomde> can you capitilise something twice?
[14:15] <Randomskk> is that like ROT13ing twice?
[14:15] <Randomskk> does it make it lower case?
[14:15] <Randomskk> or superuppercase?
[14:15] <eroomde> what happens if you add 32 again to the ascii?
[14:15] <Randomskk> uhm
[14:15] <Randomskk> you map to silly numbers
[14:15] <Randomskk> but
[14:15] <Randomskk> you don't mean add
[14:15] <Randomskk> uppercase is 65 onwards
[14:16] <daveake> subtract
[14:16] <Randomskk> lowercase is 97 onwards
[14:16] <Randomskk> so it maps to like
[14:16] <eroomde> sorry yes
[14:16] <eroomde> subtract 32
[14:16] <Randomskk> !"#....89:
[14:16] <daveake> LASER --> ,!3%2
[14:16] <daveake> Kinda loses the impact
[14:16] <eroomde> i want to say lidar in the style of the historian talking about radar
[14:17] <number10> something of interest from 1966 http://library.gsfc.nasa.gov/Databases/Balloon/Data/BT1037.10.pdf
[14:17] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwAioN2mtsA
[14:17] <Randomskk> ''.join(chr(ord(a) - 32) for a in "LASER")
[14:18] <Randomskk> :o
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[15:41] <jcoxon> afternoon all
[15:41] <daveake> Afternoon
[15:49] <daveake> Any chance you could upload the XML for my payload?
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[15:56] <DanielRichman> daveake: no; but we can upload the JSON for your payload (if you used genpayload it'll be right underneath the xml). If you don't have a JSON copy then I can probably convert it.
[15:56] <daveake> Yes, I did. Just a mo ....
[15:57] <daveake> It's just above actually, if you mean the "Habitat Flight Doc" bit. http://pastebin.com/UGzeqFVq
[15:58] <daveake> So is the XML depracated now?
[15:58] <Randomskk> yea.
[15:58] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: shall I remove the XML generation bit?
[15:58] <daveake> Ta. Didn't know that.
[15:58] <Randomskk> shame, having coded all the 'beautiful' xml generation
[15:58] <Randomskk> ha ha
[15:58] <daveake> :)
[15:58] <DanielRichman> D:
[15:58] <Randomskk> though did pick up amusing bugs in fldigi's xml handling
[15:59] <Randomskk> like "it actually needs spaces after this tag"
[15:59] <DanielRichman> I'm not sure I would have called those amusing
[15:59] <Randomskk> but yea
[15:59] <Randomskk> haha
[15:59] <Randomskk> yea and I wouldn't call the xml generation beautiful I guess
[15:59] <Randomskk> okay well json is friendlier all around
[15:59] <daveake> Oh, and the "Integer" field .. is there a limit for the numbers? I have an integer opressure field that goes up to about 99,000
[16:00] <DanielRichman> python longs go up to infinity + 1
[16:00] <DanielRichman> however it must be an integer; and contain no '.'
[16:00] <daveake> Well the payload is for Buzz .... to infinity+1
[16:01] <Randomskk> though constrained by system memory
[16:01] <Randomskk> so expressing infinity as a finite integer is tricky
[16:01] <daveake> 5 digits no ".", I don't think I'll be stretching system memory
[16:01] <fsphil> infinity/0
[16:01] <Randomskk> seems unlikely :P
[16:01] <Randomskk> fsphil: that's not the same as infinity and nor is it integer :P
[16:01] <daveake> It's pressure. I expect it to be going down not up :)
[16:02] <daveake> What have I started ...?
[16:03] <daveake> Anyone else noticed that pastebin's login seems broken? Can't login, even with the new password I requested
[16:03] <Randomskk> I like pastie.org
[16:04] <daveake> noted, ta
[16:04] <DanielRichman> daveake: I have renamed a few of your fields: direction -> bearing, ext temp -> temp_ext, int temp -> temp_int, batt volts -> battery_volts, and I put an underscore in flight mode
[16:04] <DanielRichman> is that OK?
[16:05] <daveake> Yes, no problem
[16:05] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: I think that we should add some post filters (in habitat rather than hotfixes) for simple scaling. IIRC we can specify config in the filter dict; so we can have habitat convert battery millivolts (int) to battery volts (float) etc.
[16:06] <DanielRichman> simplifies the data dict greatly. Currently spacenear has to intepret battery_volts, battery_millivolts, etc.
[16:06] <Randomskk> yea, okay
[16:06] <Randomskk> easily done
[16:06] <DanielRichman> and it's fairly easy to have that extend to convert from raw ADC to a meaningful value
[16:06] <Randomskk> and yes we can have config for filters
[16:06] <DanielRichman> I'll put it on the task list ;-)
[16:06] <Randomskk> indeed
[16:06] <Randomskk> haha go for it
[16:06] <DanielRichman> daveake: what's the units for pressure?
[16:06] <NigeyS> Using username "nigel".
[16:06] <NigeyS> Server refused our key
[16:06] <NigeyS> b0rk!
[16:06] <daveake> nice :)
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[16:06] <Randomskk> also at some point i'm writing a filter for darkside so his pressure sensor can upload raw values and habitat uses calibration data to output the actual pressure
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[16:07] <DanielRichman> is that more complex than a simple scaling?
[16:08] <Randomskk> yea
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[16:08] <Randomskk> I believe there's a chain of equations with a lot of intermediate values
[16:08] <DanielRichman> I see; sounds like it really isn't linear then :P
[16:09] <Randomskk> well I don't think the raw reported value is, no, but what he transmitted last time did the calc onboard the mcu iirc
[16:09] <DanielRichman> ... perhaps the scaling post filter could instead apply a 'simple' expression. It might be easy to sanitise config input so you could just specify 'float(input) / 5000' for linear scales; etc.
[16:09] <Randomskk> I think that might be overly complicating it compared to just having it apply a scale and emit a float
[16:09] <DanielRichman> daveake: http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/08976420e9a26f1a6073725d4b558fae
[16:10] <Randomskk> config specifies the name of the output float key and the scaling parameter
[16:10] <DanielRichman> yeah
[16:10] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: another feature that would be great is a js or something page that can take a flight doc ID and render it prettily
[16:10] <Randomskk> I think I've put that on the task list
[16:11] <DanielRichman> indeed, I suppose with the eventual intention of integrating that with The One Webapp
[16:11] <Randomskk> yea
[16:11] <Randomskk> this mystical beast that will combine all these things we are doign
[16:11] <Randomskk> or something
[16:11] <daveake> DanielRichman looks good to me
[16:11] <eroomde> lol
[16:11] <Randomskk> and the predictor etc
[16:11] <Randomskk> and the tracker and genpayload and achievements and
[16:11] <Randomskk> it'l be so awesome
[16:12] <DanielRichman> daveake: what's the units for pressure in your string?
[16:12] <Randomskk> plus it means chase cars get the predictor offline too
[16:12] <Randomskk> which would be kinda very useful
[16:12] <DanielRichman> :D
[16:13] <Randomskk> and consequently dynamic predictions
[16:13] <daveake> DanielRichman Pascals
[16:13] <Randomskk> though we'll need to work on caching wind data
[16:13] <Randomskk> (or deriving it from balloon ascent data!)
[16:13] <Randomskk> (that'd be cool!)
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[16:13] <Randomskk> once we have a db of flights we could consider seeing how accurate an approach based on ascent data is for predicting land
[16:14] <DanielRichman> daveake: looks like all your fields are showing up on spacenear.us; success!
[16:15] <daveake> DanielRichman Thanks *very* much. Buzz is on the map and looking good, thanks!
[16:15] <eroomde> all your fields are belong to spacenear.us
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[16:17] <eroomde> too funny for jasperw obviously
[16:18] <DanielRichman> :o
[16:19] <daveake> :)
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[18:45] <BalHare> I am out of here, off to get ice-cream for me and my dog. C U 2morrow.
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[18:56] <Upu> evening
[18:56] <daveake> evening
[18:57] <Upu> oh hey Steve see the post on GPSL about Hwoyee restricting to one dealer in the US ? Can you be ours :)
[18:58] <RocketBoy> yeah - interesting - very anti competitive IMO
[18:59] <Upu> indeed
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[19:01] <RocketBoy> NigeyS: ping
[19:01] <NigeyS> pong
[19:02] <RocketBoy> ooo - did you get wet yet?
[19:03] <NigeyS> not yet lol, been busy fighting an apache all day :( and likely all night to
[19:03] <RocketBoy> ok np
[19:05] <RocketBoy> those pesky injuns
[19:06] <Upu> doesn't look suitable for launches this weekend
[19:06] <Upu> well unless you're going for Russia
[19:06] <daveake> :)
[19:07] <daveake> My application is for the following weekend with some backup weekends after
[19:07] <natrium42> Upu!!!
[19:07] <Upu> hello natrium42
[19:07] <natrium42> hey
[19:07] <natrium42> http://spacenear.us/design/
[19:08] <natrium42> got you the files if you still need them ^
[19:08] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, this apache is killing me slowly! lol
[19:08] <Upu> awesome thx natrium42
[19:08] <natrium42> np
[19:13] <Upu> right where is Mr Coxon
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[19:16] <natrium42> Upu: in england
[19:16] <Upu> yes
[19:19] <Upu> I gather that but I really need to chat to him about this conference
[19:21] <Upu> interesting :)
[19:21] <daveake> helpfulbot
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[19:24] <jcoxon> someone called?
[19:25] <RocketBoy> Upu
[19:25] <Upu> lol
[19:25] <Upu> well natrium42 actually but hi
[19:25] <jcoxon> uhuh
[19:25] <Upu> We need to have a chat about conference when you have a few mins spare
[19:25] <jcoxon> yes
[19:25] <jcoxon> can talk on irc now if you want
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[19:50] <Upu> sorted
[19:50] <Upu> who wants to come to a conference ? :)
[19:50] <mattltm> Me but im on Honeymoon :(
[19:50] <Upu> crap excuse
[19:50] <Upu> (congrats!)
[19:51] <Upu> whens the big day ?
[19:51] <Randomskk> is this like last time, and the first n people to say "I wanna come" on IRC get on the list? :P
[19:51] <mattltm> Arse, the wench walked in just as I typed that :(
[19:51] <Upu> lol
[19:51] <Randomskk> haha, karma's a bitch
[19:51] <mattltm> October 1st :)
[19:51] <mattltm> lol.
[19:51] <Upu> no this place has 50 spaces Randomskk so we can open it up to all
[19:51] <Randomskk> is this going to be replacing the one at LHS?
[19:51] <Randomskk> also "I do"
[19:52] <Randomskk> just to get on the list nice and near the top :P
[19:52] <Upu> yeah we don't have the space at LHS sadly
[19:52] <Upu> too many interested people !
[19:52] <Upu> wheres that normalguy anyway, he needs to come
[19:52] <fsphil-laptop> same date Upu?
[19:52] <Upu> enjoy the day mattltm I suspec tyou'll never forget it
[19:53] <Upu> yes fsphil don't worry we are acutely aware people have flights and hotels booked
[19:53] <fsphil-laptop> indeed mattltm!
[19:53] <Upu> i.e you and me
[19:54] <Upu> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=EC1V+1NQ+to+E2+8HD&saddr=EC1V+1NQ&daddr=E2+8HD&hl=en&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=21.245077,57.084961&geocode=Fb5REgMdiWX-_ylXCHDIXBt2SDGbGGBZ0iuqEA%3BFSpLEgMddtb-_ynzkTNUuRx2SDHhO91w6alHVQ&vpsrc=0&t=h&z=15
[19:54] <Upu> 2 miles from LHS right next door to Angel
[19:54] <Randomskk> oooh
[19:54] <Randomskk> what's the venue?
[19:54] <Upu> http://islington.the-hub.net/public/index.html
[19:54] <Upu> if they have space
[19:55] <Randomskk> oh cool
[19:55] <russss> yeah London Hackspace used to meet there actually
[19:55] <Upu> so I understand
[19:55] <russss> it's nice
[19:55] <russss> lots of stairs though :P
[19:55] <Upu> can handle stairs :)
[19:55] <fsphil-laptop> noooooooo!
[19:56] <Upu> anyway as soon as we have some confirmation I'll send a mail out with full plan of the day, costs etc
[19:56] <Upu> russss anyone from LHS who was interested in coming ?
[19:56] <russss> I'm sure you could find some people
[19:56] <russss> I'd love to come but I'm out of the country that weekend :/
[19:56] <Upu> We are going to record it for all you travellers and honeymooners
[19:56] <Randomskk> have to give a couple of LHS talks now and again on it
[19:57] <Randomskk> seems to be a bit of interest
[19:57] <Upu> yeah
[19:57] Nick change: spy -> spruce
[19:57] <Upu> Dan-K2VOL is going to give a 3 hour talk on the mathematics of high pressure balloons
[19:57] <Randomskk> haha excellent
[19:57] Action: Randomskk will heckle
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[20:00] <m1x10> hi all
[20:01] <Upu> evening m1x10
[20:01] <fsphil-laptop> hihihi
[20:02] Nick change: spruce -> spy
[20:17] <NigeyS> yey nigey 1 apache - 0
[20:17] <daveake> :)
[20:19] <fsphil-laptop> sir nigel, httpd slayer
[20:30] <daveake> he found his grail
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[21:14] <fsphil> man it's really cold out there tonight
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[21:15] <m1x10> fsphi: we got 21C
[21:16] <fsphil> 9C here tonight
[21:16] <fsphil> single figures again
[21:17] <m1x10> 9C???iiiiiiiiiih
[21:18] <m1x10> 9C is winter for GR
[21:19] <fsphil> You had snow last winter, must have been <0c for a while?
[21:20] <m1x10> i dont remember. i was in the camp. we had snow there very early and lowest temp was -8C
[21:21] <fsphil> it's rarely that cold here
[21:22] <m1x10> i will love this winter btw. I will be in warm place and I wont have to wake up 02:00 to go for guarding :)
[21:22] <fsphil> weird how that works
[21:22] <fsphil> was your camp high up?
[21:22] <m1x10> yes, top of mountain
[21:22] <fsphil> ah, well that explains that :)
[21:22] <russss> yeah I've got the heating on tonight
[21:22] <m1x10> yes
[21:23] <m1x10> dont forget. it was a air-defense unit with hawk missisles.
[21:23] <m1x10> so it got to be high
[21:23] <fsphil> good spot for amateur radio ;)
[21:23] <m1x10> the most lol stuff was when they gave me a DOS program on a laptop to operate the launcher
[21:24] <m1x10> and i was turning it upside down for fun
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[21:29] <m1x10> anyway, gnite !
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[21:29] Action: m1x10 prays god to make the company make the phone call
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[21:42] <DanielRichman> RocketBoy: added new flight doc http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/453660bbf852a2aec69ce17f94a624dc ; added spacenear.us custom field 'pressure_hpa -> Pressure (hPa)' (I renamed temperature->temp_int, pressure hPa -> pressure_hpa
[21:43] <RocketBoy> cheers
[21:43] <DanielRichman> give me or Randomskk a shout if you have trouble parsing :-)
[21:43] <RocketBoy> will do - thanks
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 8 2011