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[05:02] <Darkside> urgh
[05:02] <Darkside> http://hackaday.com/2011/09/05/czech-ing-out-the-view-from-31-kilometers/
[05:02] <Darkside> freaking hackaday
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[05:41] <shenki> Darkside: i turned on my laptop 6 hours ago to show you that
[05:41] <shenki> got a bit distracted
[05:45] <NigeyS> A man with a suspicious backpack - possibly a bomb - is holding a child at a courthouse in a suburb of Sydney in Australia, local media say.
[05:45] <NigeyS> omgs :o
[05:48] <Darkside> lol shenki
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[06:00] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
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[06:50] <SamSilver> http://imgur.com/d3AW1
[06:53] <daveake> lol
[06:53] <SamSilver> daveake: morning
[06:53] <daveake> Morning dave :)
[06:54] <daveake> I recognise that "weather balloon" in the bottom-left corner
[06:54] <SamSilver> I watched james's launch but left brfore he reported back about the cause of lack of float
[06:54] <SamSilver> looks a tad like buzz1
[06:55] <daveake> Indeed
[06:55] <daveake> I want to put the LEDs inside but then they won't show up in daylight. Looks cool though
[06:56] <daveake> Re James - Not sure he knows yet. He said only one balloon had burst. 2 more got punctured when it landed in a bush
[06:56] <SamSilver> seems not all foil balloons are =
[06:57] <daveake> Yep
[06:58] <daveake> Buzz is coming along nicely - temp and pressure sensors work, including checking them at -50 witha freezer spray. Current sonsumption is 65mA total so should get 15-16 hours out of the batteries (3 AAA's). Flight logic including cutdown all working. Radio working. Need to add the camera control then finish the construction.
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[06:59] <number10> sounds like you are making great progress daveake
[06:59] <TimZaman> Morning has broken, like the first morning
[06:59] <TimZaman> Blackbird has spoken, like the first bird
[06:59] <daveake> Blimey, someone's awake
[07:00] <TimZaman> <3
[07:00] <number10> and cheerfull
[07:00] <TimZaman> i have already been out, would you believe it
[07:00] <TimZaman> http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=1TWd3skb-Rw
[07:01] <daveake> Big hair lol
[07:01] <number10> you remember those sorts of hair dos in the 70 dave
[07:02] <daveake> Cheeky git lol
[07:02] <daveake> Yes
[07:03] <number10> I didnt say you had one thogh ;) so not so cheeky
[07:03] <daveake> I didn't, but I am old enough to remember ...
[07:03] <number10> me too
[07:04] <daveake> :)
[07:05] <TimZaman> hey number2 how's the payload
[07:05] <number10> daveake - are you using a seperate supply for the cutdown
[07:05] <number10> TimZaman - what payload?
[07:05] <TimZaman> i just made a cutdown thingy yesterday, now uploading youtube vid
[07:05] <TimZaman> number10: werent you launching
[07:06] <number10> not me - I am way off that - just buying bits at the moment
[07:06] <daveake> Weeeell ... that's a good question. I'm hoping to get away with not doing that. I need to run a test on part-worn AAAs to see how they do.
[07:06] <daveake> Backup option is I have a small lipo for the camera, so I was thinking about using that. It might need to be slightly bigger though.
[07:08] <number10> looking forward to seing the vid
[07:09] <daveake> Cutdown needs 1A for 5 seconds or so. AAAs are allegedly 0.15 ohms internal resistance, so I'd lose 0.5V. The first thing to drop out would be the GPS but that works even with the battery down to 3.18V. The processor needs even less volts, though I haven't tested how many yet. Given that the battery volts should still be over 4V at cutdown, I think I'm safe.
[07:09] <SpeedEvil> Make sure that it's OK when colder
[07:09] <daveake> Got to test though
[07:10] <SpeedEvil> You ahve a camera in the box?
[07:10] <daveake> Yep
[07:10] <TimZaman> my cotdown is 3A
[07:10] <TimZaman> daveake: using hotwire? how much resistance to the meter?
[07:11] <daveake> I measured a short length at 4V / 1A to glow red hot.
[07:11] <TimZaman> wow geez
[07:11] <TimZaman> that'd then probably be 20 ohms to the meter?
[07:11] <TimZaman> fsphil: early bird.
[07:11] <SpeedEvil> I made a prototype cutdown that I like - 350C rated ceramic 1W resistor inside a little twist of fibreglass insulation, with a cord pressing against one side
[07:12] <daveake> Yep. Crappocam. Does 1280x1024 stills and 720x480 video. Memory card should give me 44 mins of video, however I'm planning on (something like) 30 secs of video, then a few stills, then cycle around again, all starting when it hits 30km
[07:12] <TimZaman> my cutdown, uploaded just now:
[07:12] <daveake> Yes, I was going to steal some fibreglass insulation from the loft
[07:12] <TimZaman> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6oU2e5zxLA
[07:13] <daveake> nice
[07:13] <daveake> I have a nice little 5A FET to control it. That works.
[07:13] <daveake> Very low series resistance in the FET
[07:14] <daveake> TimZaman - 4V 1 A = 4 ohms :)
[07:15] <TimZaman> yes, but i asked to the meter
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[07:15] <TimZaman> if you have a piece of 1 ohm that is 5cm, than its 20ohm to the meter.. or am i missing something
[07:16] <daveake> I'm only using about 5cm
[07:16] <daveake> Hold on while I find it ....
[07:16] <TimZaman> so your wire is indeed 20 ohms to the meter?
[07:16] <SpeedEvil> daveake: The resistor route means that it's all completely testable and repeatable, and within ratings, which is nice. And quite low in (peak) power. Though it does take a sizeable fraction of a minute to hit cutdown temp
[07:16] <TimZaman> because mine is 7 ohms to the meter, which is really too little; i would rather have a bit more so that it doesnt suck up that much amps as it does now
[07:17] <daveake> Actually, it's even shorter. Measures 4.2 ohms, and it's just over 4cm, so about 1 ohm/cm.
[07:18] <TimZaman> !!
[07:18] <daveake> I've soldered it to a couple of pieces of regular wire, and those go to the FET circuit
[07:18] <daveake> At 1A it gets red hot and will melt the nylon pretty quickly
[07:19] <daveake> Obviously will take longer when cold, but it cuts instantaneously here
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[07:21] <SpeedEvil> red heat is ~700C. It's not going to notice a 60C delta in temps
[07:21] <daveake> :)
[07:22] <daveake> It melted slowly at 0.5A
[07:22] <daveake> What power do you need in your resistor to melt nylon?
[07:22] <TimZaman> daveake: i suppose little, it melts ridiculously quickly
[07:23] <SpeedEvil> daveake: 1W
[07:23] <SpeedEvil> But for most of a minute.
[07:23] <TimZaman> can you imagine i once used a servo as a cutdown
[07:23] <daveake> OK, so 1/4 of the power I'm using, but a lot longer
[07:23] <daveake> Yes, I can :)
[07:24] <daveake> I really like the idea of that electrically ungluable glue, but I don't know how it would cope at -50 and I don't know where to buy any!
[07:26] <number10> daveake - is the crappocam one of those keyring things
[07:27] <daveake> SpeedEvil - I like the idea of using less power for longer (I have plenty of capacity in the batteries), but a bit worried how long the cutdown will take at low temps.
[07:27] <daveake> number10 yes
[07:27] <fsphil> much to early in the morning to have a sensible conversation :p
[07:28] <daveake> :p
[07:28] <daveake> It has 2 buttons, which I'm controlling from the Arduino
[07:28] <daveake> via transistors
[07:28] <number10> I got one of those recently - seems to be a MK8 and no means of removing date/time stamp - we strapped it to the boys rocket a few weeks back
[07:28] <SpeedEvil> daveake: The resistor is specced to hit 300C at 1W in normal room-temp air
[07:28] <SpeedEvil> daveake: So, even at -40, with no insulation...
[07:28] <daveake> Cool. Well hot.
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[07:30] <TimZaman> is there some kind of api to use the info from the spacenearus tracker?
[07:33] <fsphil> don't think so
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[07:48] <m1x10> hi all
[07:48] <SamSilver> m1x10: hi
[07:50] <fsphil> g'day
[07:52] Nick change: spacekittun -> spacekitteh
[07:52] <number10> hi
[07:56] <TimZaman> mornin!
[07:57] <TimZaman> fsphil: any other methods of getting at least the latest string somewhere..?
[07:57] <TimZaman> or including the map from the viewer in a block inside my webpage
[07:57] Nick change: spacekitteh -> sofii-chan
[07:57] <TimZaman> making progess hacking up a mission control
[07:57] <fsphil> not sure, rjharrison would be the one to poke :)
[07:58] <daveake> You could grab the latest sentences from rjharrison's site
[07:58] <TimZaman> i dont think he would like me polling the raw data every 5 seconds :P
[07:58] <daveake> Dunno if there's a "neat" way though
[07:58] <daveake> lol
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[07:58] <TimZaman> daveake: yeah put the page takes around 15 seconds to load due to its enormousness
[07:58] <TimZaman> if thats a word
[07:58] <daveake> eek
[07:59] <daveake> yes, it is
[07:59] <fsphil> it wouldn't be nice :) there may be a way to filter just the last couple of strings
[07:59] <fsphil> but if there is I don't know it
[08:00] <fsphil> I'm sure spacenear.us doesn't read the entire log each time
[08:00] <TimZaman> fsphil: just asked robert. luckily im not in a hurry
[08:02] <fsphil> there's also habitat, but I don't think you can ask it 'give me the last x telemetry documents'
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[08:12] <SpeedEvil> IIRC wget -c works
[08:13] <SpeedEvil> Actually - probably not with the current format
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[08:14] <SpeedEvil> nuking the last 5 chars, then wget -c may work
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[08:26] <eroomde> morning
[08:26] <daveake> morning
[08:26] <eroomde> has anyone here used roller balls instead of conventional mice?
[08:27] <daveake> trackball?
[08:27] <eroomde> sorry yes
[08:27] <daveake> Yes. Gave me RSI
[08:27] <eroomde> lol
[08:28] <eroomde> i was considering it precisely for the opposite reason
[08:28] <daveake> That was a teeny one in a laptop. Used a larger one before and that was OK
[08:28] <daveake> :p
[08:28] <eroomde> i got rsi quite badly during my thesis type-up and it seems to stay with you
[08:28] <daveake> I think "changing something" is probably a good idea
[08:28] <eroomde> and i have since got a fancy kenesis split keyboard which has made me able to type indefinitely
[08:28] <eroomde> it's very good
[08:29] <eroomde> but my right hand is still more painful than my left
[08:29] <eroomde> so i assume it correlates without mousing
[08:29] <Darkside> hey eroomde
[08:29] <number10> some people here have a sideways type mouse
[08:29] <eroomde> hey Darkside
[08:29] <daveake> When I got it, I boguth a wrist strap and switched to using my other hand for mousey operations
[08:29] <Darkside> eroomde: yes, we use trackballs in our chase vehicles
[08:29] <eroomde> number10: I have a sidways one too
[08:29] <eroomde> but i still am not convinced
[08:29] <eroomde> it stops your forearm bones being crossed, which is a good thing
[08:30] <number10> did not work for you eroomde?
[08:30] <eroomde> but i still think it does funny things to your wrist
[08:30] <eroomde> it's *better* for sure
[08:30] <eroomde> but you can't really move them with your finger tips like a normal mouse
[08:30] <eroomde> so you end up using your whole arm
[08:30] jonquark (~jonl@nat/ibm/x-dxxxcjwyenskhzco) joined #highaltitude.
[08:30] <eroomde> and after a long cad session i can really fell it in my shoulder and back
[08:31] <eroomde> hence wondering about the trackball - your arm can be in a natural position and relaxed
[08:31] <eroomde> you can to use your finger tips too for fine pointer manipulation
[08:31] <number10> I'll wander to the cad room later to see what they are using
[08:31] <Darkside> eroomde: http://rfhead.net/?p=377
[08:31] <eroomde> Darkside will attest that I bitch and moan when using my little laptop
[08:32] <eroomde> i can just fell it doing nasty things to me when i sit and work at it
[08:32] <daveake> Same here with my netbook
[08:32] <eroomde> Darkside: splendid!!!
[08:32] <eroomde> daveake: yeah
[08:33] <eroomde> the biggest improvement once i got rsi wasn;t so much 'they keyboard' it was more just setting everything up properly
[08:33] <eroomde> proper heigh monitor, proper height chair and desk, arms a comfortable distance apart and at the right angle, etc
[08:33] <Darkside> eroomde: the board like that, weighs 11.8 grams
[08:33] <eroomde> and laptops just are aweful for that
[08:33] <SamSilver> foot mice?
[08:33] <eroomde> they fold you right over
[08:33] <Darkside> not sure how much extra the radiometrix module will be
[08:34] <eroomde> SamSilver: the keyboard up from my one came with foot pedals
[08:34] <eroomde> if it gets bad i might give it a go
[08:34] <daveake> Darkside NTX2=5g
[08:34] <eroomde> i think if i were to switch to a lisp-like language, like clojure, i might just map the foot pedals to ( and )
[08:34] <eroomde> and then you could live a life free of modifer keys, which would help
[08:34] <SamSilver> Father X-mas is going to bring me one
[08:35] <eroomde> Darkside: v impressed with micronut
[08:35] <eroomde> SamSilver: a foot mouse?
[08:35] <eroomde> is that pointing and clicking or just clicking?
[08:35] <daveake> Lot neater than my rat's nest of Arduino mini-pro + Lassen + NTX2
[08:35] <eroomde> i think half the mouse problem is the clicking in terms of finger pain
[08:36] <SamSilver> yip I have my fingers crossed
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[08:36] <eroomde> Darkside: does it fit in an old-school 35mm film pot?
[08:36] <Darkside> no
[08:36] <Darkside> well
[08:37] <Darkside> the antenna would stick out the top
[08:37] <eroomde> i guess if you want batts too...
[08:37] <SamSilver> eroomde: I think the next nut will fit in a tooth filling
[08:37] <Darkside> yeah
[08:37] <daveake> Darkside how much power does it need? Will it run on 3 AAA's?
[08:37] <eroomde> you could probably find a lipo cell that is the same size as the pcb
[08:37] <Darkside> daveake: yes, for a while...
[08:37] <eroomde> heat-strink it to the pcb
[08:37] <Darkside> it sucks a bit of current
[08:37] <daveake> lol. How long?
[08:37] <eroomde> you'll have a completely self-contained tracker
[08:37] <Darkside> witout the transmitter, it was sucking 100mA at 5V
[08:37] <eroomde> :o
[08:37] <Darkside> the ublox 6 modules should draw less
[08:38] <Darkside> that one has a ublox 5 module on it
[08:38] <Darkside> (its all i had
[08:38] <daveake> I deliberately chose (whispers) Lassen because of low current. Batteries are largest factor in my payload. Total consumption is 65mA so 3 AAA's will last quite a while
[08:38] <eroomde> :O
[08:38] <eroomde> but yes fair enough
[08:38] <eroomde> good old lassen
[08:38] <daveake> :)
[08:39] <daveake> choose 2 out of those 3 words?
[08:39] <shenki> Darkside: does it need 5V?
[08:39] <Darkside> shenki: well, the LDO has a dropout voltage around 4.2v
[08:39] <m1x10> fsphil what is the basic salary in Ireland?
[08:39] <Darkside> the board is 3.3v
[08:39] <shenki> ok, so two of these A123 cells will do it
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[08:40] <Darkside> shenki: i'm going with the 3 AA standard
[08:40] <shenki> 15Wh in two cells
[08:40] <Darkside> or 3 AAA
[08:40] <shenki> 70g each
[08:40] <shenki> we should try it
[08:40] <Darkside> shenki: what voltage?
[08:40] <jcoxon> morning
[08:40] <shenki> 3.3V/cell
[08:40] <m1x10> hello
[08:40] <Darkside> oooooooooh
[08:40] <daveake> AAA's are 8g each
[08:40] <shenki> Darkside: we can use the test chamber to see ho they degrade below -30
[08:40] <Darkside> shenki: so they are 4.54Ah?
[08:40] <daveake> Also the Arduino Mini Pro (3V3 version) has a low drop-out regulator. The Lassen dropped out with 3.18V going *in* to the reg
[08:40] <Darkside> (15Wh/3.3v)
[08:41] <shenki> Darkside: the spec sheet says 2.3Ah
[08:41] <shenki> but the Wh number came from discharge tests we've done
[08:41] <shenki> so they might not align
[08:41] <Darkside> hmm ok
[08:41] <Darkside> lithium AAs are 3Ah
[08:41] <eroomde> i think one really wants to go smps for low power attempts
[08:41] <shenki> Darkside: ANR26650M1A
[08:41] <shenki> that's the part
[08:42] <Darkside> ok
[08:42] <shenki> the huge advantage here is that they're rechargable
[08:42] <shenki> so less waste
[08:42] <Darkside> FUCK 70 grams each
[08:42] <Darkside> thats ridiculous
[08:42] <shenki> yeah, they're large
[08:42] <Darkside> AA lithiums are 12 grams
[08:42] <shenki> how much is a AA?
[08:42] <shenki> doh
[08:42] <shenki> that kinda rules them out
[08:42] <Darkside> yeah
[08:42] <shenki> bummer
[08:42] <Darkside> AAA lithiums are about 7 grams
[08:43] <shenki> 18:10 < daveake> AAA's are 8g each
[08:43] <shenki> :)
[08:43] <shenki> keep up Darkside
[08:43] <Darkside> i can get the same capacity in <40g, and the batteries aren't that expensive from ebay
[08:43] <Darkside> heh
[08:43] <shenki> yeah
[08:43] <shenki> that sucks
[08:43] <shenki> this sutff is cool tech
[08:43] <Darkside> yeah, its cool, but its too heavy
[08:43] <Darkside> all the rechargables are
[08:43] <Darkside> except for LiPos
[08:47] <daveake> shenki 7.57 .. my sheet rounded down!
[08:47] <Darkside> daveake: you were closer
[08:48] <WillDuckworth> i'm looking at these types of batteries for a micro launch:
[08:48] <WillDuckworth> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/batteries/non-rechargeable-batteries/speciality-size-batteries/?sort-by=default&sort-order=default&applied-dimensions=4294965001&lastAttributeSelectedBlock=Brand
[08:49] <eroomde> which ones WillDuckworth ?
[08:49] <Darkside> i know those ones
[08:50] <eroomde> just beware their max discharge
[08:50] <Darkside> yeah, its crap all
[08:50] <eroomde> those types of batts ogten have a high cap and v low continuous current
[08:50] <jcoxon> glad i didn't launch today
[08:50] <jcoxon> even more wind
[08:50] <eroomde> they're designed for v low power backup things
[08:51] <eroomde> I am using some like that for a pyro firing box that has to work from cold after several hours on a hab
[08:51] <eroomde> but they're just keeping a capacitor ticking over
[08:52] <eroomde> the capacitor will be doing all the work
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[08:56] <WillDuckworth> tried 2 in series T32/8AA1 - powered my mini pro and venus gps ok - not sure yet for how long though!
[08:57] <WillDuckworth> correction 436-4768
[08:58] <eroomde> ok, well as long as it works
[08:59] <jcoxon> WillDuckworth, does it cope with gps current draw spikes?
[08:59] <eroomde> i guess 20mA is not unreasonable a figure to get a flight computer power consumption down to
[08:59] <Darkside> thats 6.6mW
[08:59] <Darkside> (at 3.3v)
[08:59] <Darkside> so thats less than the output power of the transmit module
[09:00] <WillDuckworth> it does waver a little during transmission occasionally
[09:00] <Darkside> wait, i'm off
[09:01] <Darkside> yeah, thats 66mW
[09:01] <Darkside> >
[09:01] <Darkside> >_>
[09:01] <Darkside> my bad
[09:01] <Darkside> anyway the transmit modules aren't that efficient, so you're looking at maybe 30mW to the transmit module, then you only have 30mW for the micro and the GPS unit
[09:01] <Darkside> i don't know if thats possible
[09:03] <fsphil> my pico payload will be using aaa's
[09:03] <Darkside> if i use 3 AAAs on this payload i'll probably onlt get 8 hours or so battery life out of it
[09:03] <jcoxon> so steve and i have a new theory about pico payloads
[09:04] <jcoxon> once you've decided how many balloons you are going with
[09:04] <jcoxon> the more mass the better as you'll float lower
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[09:04] <jcoxon> so the diff pressures will be lower
[09:05] <Darkside> oh yeah, i had this discussion with a guy at uni today
[09:05] <Darkside> when a balloon is at altitude, won't the elastic force from the balloon itself cause an increased pressure at the neck?
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[09:06] <fsphil> wouldn't it cause an overall increase in pressure inside the balloon?
[09:07] <fsphil> that's my theory why yours floated - I think with a bit more gas it would have gone slightly higher
[09:08] <Darkside> mm
[09:08] <Darkside> we might try 600g of neck lift or something this time
[09:09] <fsphil> what was your ascent rate with horus 15.5?
[09:09] <Darkside> slow
[09:09] <Darkside> something like 3m/s i think
[09:09] <eroomde> it seems to be about 3 when it was steady
[09:09] <Hibby> how was the flight on monday?
[09:10] <eroomde> it was lower on the way up but i think that's because it had higher drag due to being so floppy
[09:10] <fsphil> ooh I was going to do 2.5m/s,, maybe I shouldn't
[09:10] <Hibby> was busy being beaten up by a turbulent-as-fuck flight when it was going on
[09:10] <fsphil> was a bit breezy yesterday Hibby
[09:10] <fsphil> welcome back though! glad to see you're in mostly one piece :)
[09:10] <jcoxon> Hibby, the balloon might have got beaten up
[09:10] <jcoxon> check this out
[09:10] <jcoxon> http://www.sequoia.co.uk/shop/product.php?p=807
[09:11] <jcoxon> so if you by 1 it costs 40.21
[09:11] <Hibby> yeah, probably. our airbus was being thrown about like a toy in a tidal wave from Heathrow -> Glasgow
[09:11] <fsphil> hehe yea, guess how many I bought ;-)
[09:11] <eroomde> jcoxon: lol
[09:11] <jcoxon> if you buy 2 it costs 49.58
[09:11] <eroomde> that's a volume discount!
[09:11] <jcoxon> it hink i might get 2
[09:11] <Hibby> all flights were particularly uncomfortable, really, lol
[09:11] <Darkside> bloody falcoms
[09:11] <fsphil> jcoxon, a while back they only had 1 in stock
[09:11] <Darkside> its cheaper to maky my own modules with the uBlox 6 modules
[09:12] <Darkside> total price is about $35 AUD
[09:12] <Darkside> hmm thats about $23 pounds i think
[09:12] <Darkside> so not that much cheaper
[09:13] <jcoxon> you could probably sell them on ebay
[09:13] <jcoxon> and make a profit
[09:14] <Darkside> i could
[09:14] <Darkside> but i cbf
[09:14] <Darkside> i don't have the time to sell stuff
[09:14] <Darkside> well, to make it to sell
[09:14] <jcoxon> i see a product for sparkfun
[09:14] <jcoxon> an intergrated ublox + atemega
[09:14] <jcoxon> on a single pcb
[09:15] <jcoxon> would do very well on sparkfun
[09:15] <Darkside> heh
[09:15] <Darkside> i've got that
[09:15] <Darkside> my micronut boards
[09:15] <jcoxon> i know
[09:15] <jcoxon> thats what i mean
[09:15] <Darkside> ublox + antenna + atmega + most stuff broken out
[09:15] <jcoxon> loads of uses
[09:16] <WillDuckworth> sell the design or license it out
[09:17] <eroomde> anyone placed with the ublox max-6 devices?
[09:17] <eroomde> they look quite attractive
[09:17] <Darkside> very small
[09:17] <Darkside> they do look good..
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[09:20] <jcoxon> LazyLeopard, thanks for tracking yesterday even though it didn't go to plan
[09:20] <jcoxon> how was the signal?
[09:21] <jcoxon> Darkside, where will you source the ublox modules?
[09:21] <Darkside> wholesaler, i bought some via universal air
[09:22] <eroomde> there is some mega scope for lower power boards with this new ublox
[09:22] <Darkside> and i've been hunting around got a local distributor
[09:22] <Darkside> for*
[09:22] <eroomde> in power save mode (1Hz updates) it's pulling 22mW
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[09:22] <Darkside> eroomde: isn't the NEO-6Q similar?
[09:22] <eroomde> a radiometrix as another 10mW
[09:22] <fsphil> impressive
[09:22] <eroomde> + losses
[09:22] <Darkside> eroomde: more than 10mW
[09:22] <eroomde> and a 1.8V AVR can be right down in the < 1mW consuption band
[09:23] <Darkside> much more
[09:23] <eroomde> so i think you could probably get a whole flight computer down to 50mW?
[09:23] <Darkside> probably 30mW, its a reasonably linear transmitter
[09:23] <eroomde> 1.8V
[09:23] <eroomde> ok, 50-75mW say
[09:23] <Darkside> eroomde: maybe, but those ublox modules are 3.3v, right?
[09:23] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[09:23] <eroomde> no, you can get 1.8V parts
[09:23] <Darkside> i wouldn't run an avr
[09:23] <Darkside> i'd run a MSP430
[09:23] <eroomde> in the MAX-6 range anyway
[09:23] <eroomde> anyway, my point is
[09:24] <eroomde> 1 x AA lithium ultimate = 1.5V 3000mAh = 4.5Wh
[09:24] <eroomde> and the flight computer could be 75mW
[09:24] <eroomde> that's 60 hours of operation
[09:24] <jcoxon> i'll buy one...
[09:24] <eroomde> if you make it diddy...
[09:25] <eroomde> i was thinking a form factor like maglights
[09:25] <eroomde> a nice cylindrical case, antenna at the top
[09:25] <eroomde> screw-bottom at the bottom which you drop an AA into)
[09:25] <Darkside> hmm tats 41mA at 1.8V
[09:25] <eroomde> and just have a loop at the top and a loop at the bottom and have an inline payload
[09:25] <eroomde> set and forget
[09:25] <Darkside> heh
[09:25] <jcoxon> hehe
[09:25] <Darkside> good idea
[09:26] <jcoxon> right bbl
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[09:26] <eroomde> maybe anodize it dayglo orange
[09:26] <eroomde> just because
[09:26] <Darkside> i could get mine thinner with a MAX-6...
[09:26] <eroomde> i might have a go too :)
[09:26] <Darkside> :-)
[09:26] <Darkside> we need a different transmit module
[09:26] <Darkside> something smaller
[09:26] <eroomde> it can be one of those payloads that is complete not when there is anything left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away
[09:26] <eroomde> yes we do really
[09:27] <eroomde> some kind of off-the-shelf 10mW thing
[09:27] <Darkside> ideally temperature stable
[09:27] <eroomde> We need Dan K2VOL here
[09:27] <eroomde> he found a pefect looking part of his day job
[09:27] <eroomde> for*
[09:28] <eroomde> i hope that doesn't wake him up
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[09:30] <jcoxon> did someone summon me?
[09:32] <Darkside> no, eroomde summoned Dan-K2VOL
[09:32] <jcoxon> oh if zeusbot doesn't have the email address it summons me
[09:32] <eroomde> oh
[09:32] <eroomde> that's silly
[09:33] <eroomde> i wanted to know what Tx/Rx chip Dan has using for his keyfob
[09:33] <jcoxon> steve might have a new radio for our use
[09:33] <jcoxon> about 1/4 the size
[09:33] <jcoxon> though he is still working on it
[09:33] <WillDuckworth> oooh
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[09:57] <eroomde> Darkside: with whom did you get your pcbs made?
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[10:00] <fsphil> ooh, smaller module sounds interesting. would be easier to regulate it's temperature
[10:01] <eroomde> tranceiver capability would be fun too
[10:02] <Darkside> eroomde: seeedstudio fusion pcb
[10:03] <eroomde> ok
[10:03] <eroomde> all happy?
[10:03] <Darkside> yeah
[10:03] <Darkside> i did the 100% E-test option tho
[10:03] <Darkside> because i had some bad boards last time
[10:05] <daveake> Time for more caffeine. Just spent 5 minutes staring at code changes which didn't seem to have any effect on the running firmware ....
[10:05] <daveake> .... it would help if the programmer was plugged into the right dev board.
[10:05] <fsphil> that does often improve things
[10:06] <daveake> Indeed. In my defence, there are 5 identical boards to choose from :)
[10:06] <daveake> 4
[10:06] <Laurenceb> seedstudio osnt that bad
[10:06] <Laurenceb> their silkscreen sucks
[10:06] <Laurenceb> and sometimes the holes are off
[10:07] <eroomde> DanielRichman / Randomskk : because neighter of you are very busy, it'd be lovely to have log search on zeusbot on habhub
[10:09] <WillDuckworth> yeah, that would be good eroomde
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[10:13] <Randomskk> hah
[10:14] <Randomskk> I keep my own logs and use grep
[10:14] <Randomskk> way easier
[10:15] <TimZaman> Laurenceb: seedstudio is excellent for PCB's
[10:15] <TimZaman> silkscreen is fenominal
[10:16] <TimZaman> Laurenceb: http://www.timzaman.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/IMG_1530.jpg
[10:16] <Laurenceb> lol
[10:16] <Laurenceb> yeah but look at the alignment
[10:16] <Laurenceb> piss poor
[10:18] <eroomde> TimZaman: oh nice, they do cutouts
[10:18] <TimZaman> hmm.. i am now looking at my last four 10x10cm board. seems very accurate..
[10:18] <eroomde> how much did thoseboards cost you per peice?
[10:18] <TimZaman> like $4 per piece
[10:18] <TimZaman> minimum 4
[10:18] <TimZaman> 40
[10:18] <eroomde> :)
[10:18] <TimZaman> ehheh
[10:18] <TimZaman> minimum 10
[10:19] <eroomde> amazing
[10:19] <TimZaman> but you have to wait for +- 3 weeks for them to arive
[10:19] <eroomde> and can they do red?
[10:19] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:19] <eroomde> then i might give them a go
[10:19] <WillDuckworth> is pcbtrain any good anyone know?
[10:19] <eroomde> yes
[10:19] <eroomde> very
[10:20] <eroomde> but not the cheapest
[10:20] <eroomde> we used them for badger2 and badger cub
[10:20] <eroomde> we got 4-layer pcb's back 5 wroking days after sending them the gerbers
[10:20] <eroomde> with no problems
[10:20] <Laurenceb> eroomde: https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/raw/master/Hardware/Assembly/photo2.JPG
[10:20] <Laurenceb> yeah im using pcbtrain in future
[10:20] <eroomde> or at least, no problems caused by them, plenty of problems caused by my design
[10:20] <Laurenceb> ^thats seedstudio
[10:21] <eroomde> hmm that does look misaligned
[10:21] <Laurenceb> silkscreen is misaligned, and some of the holes are off
[10:21] <eroomde> but the routing is nice
[10:21] <Randomskk> eroomde: seeedstudio is basically great, can't beat the cost for what you get
[10:21] <eroomde> do they do 4-layer?
[10:21] <DanielRichman> zeusbot log search... flask app :P?
[10:21] <Randomskk> don't think so.
[10:21] <Randomskk> they used to
[10:21] <Randomskk> maybe they still do?
[10:21] <eroomde> life is much better with 4 layers
[10:22] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: might be a fun time to try bottle
[10:22] <Randomskk> eroomde: also much more expensive
[10:22] <eroomde> maybe we should have a little HAB bulkpcb thing
[10:22] <eroomde> split the cost of a goldphoenix order
[10:22] <Randomskk> would take aaages to fill a panel though
[10:22] <eroomde> for 4-layer stuff
[10:22] <TimZaman> Laurenceb: bleh thats one ugly silkscreen
[10:22] <DanielRichman> so there are 24M of logs on habhub's zeusbot... so we don't really need anything more efficient than a grep?
[10:23] <eroomde> are there more efficient things than grep?
[10:23] <Randomskk> yes
[10:23] <Randomskk> index
[10:23] <eroomde> i mean, for linear searching
[10:23] <TimZaman> seeing daniel is here too now, does anyone know an easy way to extract the last string from the tracker, for my own mission control
[10:23] <Randomskk> fcvo "easy"
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[10:24] <Randomskk> eroomde: but we could do a text index on the irc logs on nessie and search that
[10:24] <Randomskk> it'd be a ton faster
[10:24] <Randomskk> solr or something?
[10:24] <DanielRichman> TimZaman: manually or automatically
[10:25] <eroomde> yes, i need to ask this too. at the moment the cusf antenna pointer relies on (lat,long,alt) = urllib2.open('robertharrisonBLAH.../lateststring').read().split()[:2]
[10:25] <eroomde> so, if there's an equally simple substitution that would be lovely
[10:25] <TimZaman> eroomde: you mean youa ctually scan the entire raw datalog?
[10:26] <eroomde> no
[10:26] <TimZaman> i could do that too, but that might be heavy on bandwidth
[10:26] <eroomde> there was a webpage with was just a txt string
[10:26] <eroomde> with the latest string
[10:26] <TimZaman> Really!?
[10:26] <eroomde> so the above was a trivial parser
[10:26] <DanielRichman> mkay we just need a telemetry view that emits [payload, estimated_received_time] then you grab the last item from the view
[10:27] <DanielRichman> or perhaps [estimated_received_time, payload]... I don't know whether you want to get "the last telemetry string" or "the last telemetry string for a certain payload?"
[10:27] <Randomskk> we should have a view for payload telem anyway
[10:27] <DanielRichman> indeed.
[10:27] <Randomskk> but tbh someone's own mission control should maybe watch _changes for parsed telem?
[10:28] <DanielRichman> that would be ideal but more effort to use; perhaps we should offer both
[10:28] <Randomskk> do we already do the _changes filter? certainly have one for unparsed telem for parser
[10:28] <TimZaman> How much time it would take to have something like that running?
[10:28] <Randomskk> but yea, I want a view for payload telem anyway
[10:28] <Randomskk> makes finding it in the db handy
[10:28] <Randomskk> TimZaman: doing a quick and dirty one, about a minute our end, and wouldn't take much for you to use it either
[10:28] <DanielRichman> ok so [estimated_received_time, payload] or [payload, estimated_received_time]
[10:28] <TimZaman> <website>/data.php?PD4TA
[10:28] <Randomskk> thinking anout its design properly, a little longer
[10:29] <Randomskk> TimZaman: it wouldn't be entirely that simple, but close enough
[10:29] <Randomskk> you would need JSON parsing at your end
[10:29] <eroomde> TimZaman: http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/lastpos.php?
[10:29] <TimZaman> Randomskk: close enough is good
[10:29] <eroomde> this is what we parsed
[10:29] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: payload first for sorting
[10:29] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: OK that means that people using it need to know whichi payload they're tracking. Is that OK for the CUSF trackotron?
[10:29] <eroomde> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/lastpos.php?callsign=%s % callsign
[10:29] <eroomde> is what it evolved into
[10:29] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: oh, true
[10:30] <Randomskk> uhm
[10:30] <Randomskk> both?
[10:30] <eroomde> because we had issues with the tracker spazzing up jumpting between two payloads in the air simulataneously
[10:30] <Randomskk> views/telem_by_payload and views/latest_telem ?
[10:30] <Randomskk> take 2x disk space
[10:30] <Randomskk> but "disk space is cheap"
[10:30] <DanielRichman> :O radical. eroomde seems to suggest that the trackotron does know though
[10:30] <Randomskk> we might want both anyway
[10:30] <Randomskk> but yes
[10:30] <eroomde> we patched the trackatron to look for a specific callsign
[10:31] <DanielRichman> ok cool shall we stick with the old estimated received time calculation and just rewrite it in js?
[10:32] <TimZaman> eroomde: http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/lastpos.php?callsign=%s % callsign >> does something like this work already or was this an example
[10:33] <eroomde> it used to work
[10:33] <DanielRichman> it does not work any more
[10:33] <eroomde> here is the actual line from the trackotron code
[10:33] <eroomde> sorry the one earlier was from memory
[10:33] <eroomde> (callsign, lat,lng,alt) = urlopen('http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/lastpos.php?callsign=%s' % callsign_wanted).read().split(',')[:4]
[10:36] <eroomde> I was just trying to find a pic of the trackotron
[10:36] <eroomde> but came across nova 4 photos
[10:36] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3740958650/in/photostream
[10:36] <eroomde> our payloads used to be mental
[10:37] <eroomde> all sorts of booms and experiments and stacked to the kills with unreliable electronics and pyros and parachute mortars and stuff
[10:37] <eroomde> gills*
[10:37] <eroomde> it was pure Blake 7
[10:39] <eroomde> does flickr have a way of displaying photoso that aren't in sets?
[10:39] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: for the view?
[10:39] <Randomskk> sure, I guess so
[10:39] <DanielRichman> ok so http://pastie.org/private/rlyxtyfalwzpftcedxkgg
[10:40] <eroomde> TimZaman: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4082160869/in/photostream
[10:40] <eroomde> there you go
[10:41] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: does the above look OK (providing it works?)
[10:41] <Randomskk> reading it now
[10:41] <Randomskk> can't wait for coffeescript in couchdb (comes with 1.2, so sooon)
[10:43] <Randomskk> yes with one change
[10:43] <Randomskk> don't emit doc.data
[10:43] <Randomskk> can include_docs instead
[10:43] <TimZaman> eroomde: that's some good weather right there. What's the brand?
[10:43] <Randomskk> saves tons of disk space
[10:43] <TimZaman> eroomde: i have some very high power servo's, maybe i can pull it off
[10:43] <DanielRichman> I think it impacts view performance though; we'll have to check
[10:43] <DanielRichman> but for now, OK
[10:43] <Randomskk> hmm sounds like a tradeoff
[10:43] <Randomskk> I love the smell of compromise in the morning?
[10:44] <TimZaman> :)
[10:44] <Randomskk> but anyway I think couch best practices are to use include_docs
[10:44] <DanielRichman> OK
[10:44] <eroomde> TimZaman: hrm, alpha spid i think
[10:44] Action: DanielRichman uses futon to add the view
[10:44] <eroomde> but i'm not sure i remember
[10:44] <DanielRichman> yeah I'm lazy...
[10:44] <Randomskk> why wouldn't you use futon?
[10:44] <eroomde> we got it for free 'broken' from the wireless society
[10:45] <Randomskk> though at some point we should defintely make these all be files and happy and fun and clean and tidy
[10:45] <eroomde> but it didn't seem all that broken
[10:45] <TimZaman> =)
[10:45] <jonsowman> Randomskk: i'm wondering how to do that too
[10:45] <DanielRichman> maybe I was doing it wrong.
[10:45] <Randomskk> jonsowman: how habitat does it right now is 'okay' but uhm
[10:45] <eroomde> http://www.alfaradio.ca/
[10:45] <eroomde> timzaman^
[10:45] <Randomskk> see https://github.com/adamgreig/habitat/tree/parser
[10:45] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yeah im trying the habitat design doc uploader
[10:46] <eroomde> it comes complete with standard up-to-date web design so beloved of ham radio people
[10:46] <Randomskk> jonsowman: that link, parser/_design is couch stuff, and tools/ is the upload script
[10:46] <Randomskk> but whatever
[10:46] <TimZaman> eroomde: $1000 getup that's what it is
[10:46] <Randomskk> eroomde: why do they all do that to their websites
[10:47] <Randomskk> I guess years of just talking degrades their ability to perceive via their eyes
[10:47] <jonsowman> Randomskk: yeah, that's better than typing it all into futon i suppose
[10:47] <Randomskk> jonsowman: also see 'couchapp'
[10:48] <Randomskk> but for habitat the direction I was going to suggest involves
[10:48] <Randomskk> having a design doc for each 'part' - the parser is one, the web tracker is one, the predictor is one, the replication stuff is one, the achievements thing would be one, spacenearus bit is one, etc
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[10:49] <Randomskk> and those design docs contain relevant views, filters and validation functions that specifically check against the type of doc they care about and the type of action they protect/provide
[10:49] <jonsowman> sounds sensible
[10:49] <Randomskk> then each of those design docs would be stored in a _design folder inside the folder for that component
[10:49] <jonsowman> so you can have as many design docs as you like?
[10:50] <Randomskk> or in the habitat case where it's habitat/parser.py I guess there would be habitat/_design/parser/ and habitat/_design/achievements/ or something
[10:50] <Randomskk> yes, you can
[10:50] <jonsowman> and there is no distinction between them other than name?
[10:50] <Randomskk> and all validation functions from all design docs must pass, all views from all design docs are available, etc
[10:50] <Randomskk> correct
[10:50] <jonsowman> cool
[10:50] <jonsowman> yeah the above sounds sensible
[10:51] <Randomskk> and then the cherry on top is a script in bin/ that finds all of the _design folders and uploads/upgrades the design docs to the db
[10:51] <Randomskk> so after changing anything on disk you'd just run that and it makes sure the db is up to date
[10:51] <jonsowman> that would be neat
[10:51] <Randomskk> which is also how a brand new database would get set up
[10:51] <jonsowman> yeah i intend to do something like that
[10:52] <jonsowman> when a new database is created, my web app can automatically add the template design doc
[10:52] <Randomskk> yea
[10:53] <jonsowman> for now i'll just do it in futon
[10:55] <jonsowman> to forward the relevant parts of couch to the world, did you set it up as an information source?
[10:55] <jonsowman> in cherokee
[10:55] <Randomskk> yes
[10:55] <Randomskk> as a remote source, just giving the http path (localhost)
[10:55] <Randomskk> and then added an http reverse proxy rule
[10:55] <jonsowman> nice one
[10:55] <jonsowman> <3 cherokee
[10:56] <Randomskk> yea seriously
[10:56] <Randomskk> so good
[10:56] <DanielRichman> odd; the estimated received time for this doc http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/b76b45d84fcd22b071d7f5fcbf52634001f936d4851d55a6ffed33f971c5cf5c
[10:56] <DanielRichman> is null
[10:58] <Randomskk> that's not right
[10:58] <DanielRichman> stddev = 408; times[0] - mean = 408
[10:58] <Randomskk> haha
[10:58] <DanielRichman> so it should include it. adding some debug output.
[10:58] <DanielRichman> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[10:58] <DanielRichman> std_dev = 407.9
[10:58] <Randomskk> woah though there is a massive difference between the two times
[10:58] <Randomskk> hahahah floats
[10:59] <Randomskk> I think it should special case the situation where no one is within stddev
[10:59] <Randomskk> and just use one time
[11:00] <DanielRichman> I thought that was impossible without floating point errors. I'll have to check
[11:01] <Randomskk> hmm
[11:01] <Randomskk> apparently we are running into a floating point error then?
[11:05] <DanielRichman> yes, we are. One sec, let me scan this
[11:06] <Randomskk> haha edge cases
[11:11] <DanielRichman> ok so in this case we have two receivers; two time_uploadeds: http://i.imgur.com/lfImf.jpg
[11:11] <DanielRichman> so stddev == times[0] - mean; so it must be floating point error. So annoying
[11:12] <DanielRichman> I think that if for whatever reason it doesn't include any in the final average, it can just include all of them in the final average
[11:12] <Hibby> nightmare
[11:13] <Randomskk> we could use the sampled standard deviation instead of the population standard deviation
[11:13] <Randomskk> it would effectively make the standard deviation larger
[11:13] <Randomskk> and thus ensure that the points all fit inside it
[11:14] <DanielRichman> but is it not still possible for floating point error to mess it up? I guess not
[11:15] <DanielRichman> but: the only situation in which we won't include any is if we have two distinct points with equal numbers of x at each of the points
[11:15] <Randomskk> don't think so, at that point
[11:15] <DanielRichman> i.e., balanced perfectly around the mean
[11:15] <DanielRichman> so we would include all of them ?
[11:15] <Randomskk> but that has happened already?
[11:15] <Randomskk> I guess we should theoretically use the population std dev anyway
[11:15] <DanielRichman> I'm suggesting:
[11:15] <DanielRichman> if (new_n != 0)
[11:15] <DanielRichman> estimated_received_time = (new_sum_x / new_n);
[11:15] <DanielRichman> else
[11:15] <DanielRichman> estimated_received_time = mean;
[11:15] <Randomskk> seeing as this isn't a sample
[11:15] <Randomskk> yea, okay, do that
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[11:20] <Darkside> hey Randomskk
[11:20] <Darkside> i'm going to try and pull off the pressure sensors calibration values tonight
[11:21] <Randomskk> okay
[11:21] <Randomskk> I think I'll write it as a post filter in habitat_extensions
[11:21] <Randomskk> then it's very easy to apply to any flight you do (or that does the same thing)
[11:21] <Randomskk> and it'l just mean the final payload telemetry document has a new field containing the calibrated result
[11:21] <Darkside> the equatipon to calculate the pressure is in the BMP085 datasheet
[11:22] <Randomskk> I'm sure Python will cope
[11:22] <Darkside> i'll write a bit of python code to calculate it actually
[11:22] <Darkside> just need to cook/eat dinner first...
[11:22] <Randomskk> oh, yea, if you write a python function that takes the raw value as input and returns the calculated value
[11:23] <Randomskk> that'd make my life tons easier
[11:23] <Darkside> i can do that
[11:23] <TimZaman> Randomskk: what was the plan with the telemetry string?
[11:23] <Randomskk> TimZaman: DanielRichman is working on it now
[11:23] <Randomskk> but basically
[11:23] <Randomskk> you'll have a URL you can hit
[11:24] <Randomskk> which will return some JSON containing the parsed information from the most recent telemtry from a specified payload name
[11:24] <TimZaman> Top
[11:24] <Randomskk> you will need to parse that JSON - there are libraries - and then the result will be a dictionary/hash/map/object containing your data
[11:24] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: so um. This is revolting: http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/habitat/_view/payload_telemetry?startkey=[%22AEROS%22,999999999999999]&descending=true&limit=1
[11:24] <Randomskk> what language are you using?
[11:24] <DanielRichman> but I'm not sure how to do it properly
[11:24] <Randomskk> what's bad, the 9999?
[11:24] <DanielRichman> yeah
[11:24] <Randomskk> try a string
[11:25] <Randomskk> couchdb specifies its sort order
[11:25] <Randomskk> "latest"
[11:25] <Randomskk> wait, huh
[11:25] <Randomskk> it might be the other way
[11:25] <Randomskk> well anyway there are things that sort above and below all numbers
[11:25] <DanielRichman> that seems to work
[11:25] <DanielRichman> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/habitat/_view/payload_telemetry?startkey=[%22AEROS%22,%22latest%22]&descending=true&limit=1
[11:25] <DanielRichman> coool
[11:26] <Randomskk> I wish gnome-terminal would handle URLs better
[11:26] <DanielRichman> D:
[11:26] <Randomskk> TimZaman: http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/habitat/_view/payload_telemetry?startkey=[%22AEROS%22,%22latest%22]&descending=true&limit=1&include_docs=true
[11:26] <Randomskk> change AEROS to whatever payload name
[11:26] <Randomskk> and it will give you the latest telem for it
[11:27] <Randomskk> if you decode that as JSON, you want result["rows"][0]["doc"]["data"]
[11:27] <Randomskk> which contains like
[11:27] <Randomskk> data["temp_ext"] == 17.5
[11:27] <Randomskk> data["latitude"]=50.85523
[11:27] <Randomskk> etc
[11:28] <Darkside> aww
[11:28] <Darkside> neither of these boards pressure sensors are working :(
[11:28] <Randomskk> :|
[11:28] <Darkside> thats shit
[11:28] <Darkside> oh well, may as well just fly a micronut then
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[11:29] <jcoxon> i'm quite intreged by this attempt to communicate with that old UK satellite
[11:29] <DanielRichman> http://pastie.org/private/qnczjd5bijwg8ppvmjbug <-- and that's how to do it in couchdbkit/python
[11:29] <jcoxon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14783135
[11:31] <WillDuckworth> yeah jcoxon - looks cool
[11:32] <Darkside> fuuuuuuck
[11:32] <Darkside> i appear to have killed a board
[11:32] <Darkside> it won't program
[11:32] <Darkside> giving a verification error from the vrisp
[11:33] <Darkside> oh
[11:33] <Darkside> having a microSD card loading down the SPI lines might not help
[11:34] <Randomskk> you have to put resistors in special places to make ICSP work when other devices are also on the SPI bus
[11:34] <Darkside> the problem here is because i didn't tie the SD cards chip select any way
[11:34] <Darkside> which was a bad move
[11:34] <DanielRichman> http://pastie.org/private/eifnvic71izzw9fngzng <-- and that's in python without couchdbkit. I don't know which you would prefer for the trackotron (eroomde, Randomskk)
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> microsd has no chip select.
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> (IIRC)
[11:34] <Darkside> oh
[11:34] <Darkside> well theres the problem
[11:35] <TimZaman> DanielRichman: Randomskk: thanks a million guys, looks pretty sweet!!!!
[11:35] <DanielRichman> be back later
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[11:38] <Darkside> hmm, so i have no working pressure sensors :(
[11:38] <Darkside> that sucks
[11:38] <Darkside> oh well
[11:38] <Darkside> Randomskk: habitat will have an interesting test in october
[11:38] <Randomskk> oh?
[11:38] <Darkside> we're doing 4 (!) balloons in one day
[11:38] <daveake> Kinda appropriate that a pressure sensor sucks ...
[11:39] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: should definitely combine the database= line with the view line :P
[11:39] <Darkside> 2 & 2
[11:39] <Randomskk> list(couchdbkit.Server("")[""].view("", ...))[0][""][""]
[11:39] <Randomskk> Darkside: cool
[11:40] <Darkside> Randomskk: could you remove the pressure sensor value from the Darkside info, and replace it with a temp value
[11:40] <Randomskk> uhm
[11:40] <Randomskk> huh?
[11:41] <Darkside> i've got a second temp sensor on this payload
[11:41] <Darkside> whoops
[11:41] <Darkside> i just killed that temp sensor
[11:41] <Darkside> plugged it in backwards
[11:42] <Hibby> ponies!
[11:43] <Darkside> *brohoof*
[11:43] Action: Hibby logs into eqd/rdn/flankbook/et al
[11:43] <Hibby> :p
[11:43] <Hibby> or just reddit.
[11:44] <Darkside> oh hey, i didn't kill that temp sensor
[11:44] <Darkside> thats awesome
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[11:44] <Hibby> Darkside: http://i.imgur.com/k91P2.png
[11:44] <Darkside> haha
[11:44] <Darkside> yes
[11:45] <Darkside> Randomskk: the data i'm sending now is that the payloads will look like
[11:45] <Randomskk> Darkside: so what you're saying is you want a new flight doc
[11:46] <Darkside> just modify the old one
[11:46] <Randomskk> with a different payload config?
[11:46] <Darkside> nah, same payload config, just with 2 temp sensors and no pressure sensor
[11:46] <Randomskk> so ideally in habitat we don't modify old flight docs for new flights
[11:46] <Randomskk> the idea is that each document reflects an actual flight with configured payload
[11:46] <Randomskk> so a new flight would have a new document
[11:46] <Darkside> ohhhh ok
[11:46] <Darkside> then sure
[11:46] <Randomskk> even if the payload config was the same
[11:46] <Randomskk> as the flights docs also contain metadata about launch time and location etc
[11:46] <Darkside> call it Horus Record Attempt V2
[11:47] <Randomskk> I also can't do it while at work as I don't have access to the server atm
[11:47] <Darkside> ahh ok
[11:47] <Randomskk> but will be happy to set it up once i'm home :P
[11:47] <Darkside> coolies
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[11:56] <fsphil> interesting ... "Yorkshires premier poultry supplier" is following me on twitter. wonder if they found my payload? ;-)
[11:56] <Darkside> lol
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[11:59] <DanielRichman> Darkside: I can probably apply those changes for you; one second
[11:59] <Darkside> cool
[11:59] <DanielRichman> are you still transmitting semicolons?
[12:00] <Darkside> yep
[12:00] <Darkside> its the same sentence as last time
[12:00] <Darkside> just replace the pressure with ecxxternal temp
[12:00] <Darkside> external*
[12:00] <DanielRichman> OK: I think (though I'm not sure yet) that we're gonna eventually deprecate the use of semicolons
[12:00] <DanielRichman> there's no need in habitat
[12:00] <Darkside> ok
[12:00] <DanielRichman> but it still works so there's no need to change anything now if you don't want to
[12:00] <Darkside> well i can change it
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[12:00] <DanielRichman> I don't mind; but if youd o change it, tell me ;-)
[12:00] <Darkside> i think terry needs to change his code too
[12:01] <Darkside> we need to make an interface to the remote habitate stuff, to plot it on oziexplorer
[12:04] <DanielRichman> so currently we have $$DARKSIDE,8,198:96:72,10000.00000,10000.00000,0,0,0;22;0;394*D7B9 int count, time time, coordinate latitude, coordinate longitude, int altitude, int speed, string custom, int internal temp, float pressure, int battery
[12:04] <DanielRichman> so um
[12:04] <DanielRichman> what's custom; am i changing float pressure to int temp_intenral2, and what is the units of battery?
[12:04] <Darkside> yes
[12:04] <Darkside> and battery units are just raw ADC values
[12:05] <Darkside> i haven't quantified the slope yet
[12:05] <DanielRichman> okay. You also need to be sure that where I've got int it really is an integer and not a float or it won't parse
[12:05] <Darkside> its an integer
[12:05] <Darkside> it can go negative
[12:05] <DanielRichman> OK; that's fine; what is string custom?
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[12:06] <Darkside> thats weird
[12:06] <Hibby> Darkside: brohoof.com minecraftserver is ridiculous...
[12:06] <Darkside> its the number of GPS sats
[12:06] <DanielRichman> ok cool I'll change it to int sats
[12:08] <number10> is the latest format for payload data up to date here http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/ ?
[12:09] <Randomskk> no. don't look there
[12:09] <Randomskk> dragons
[12:09] <Randomskk> the format for data is:
[12:09] <number10> oh - where should I look when tracking?
[12:09] <Randomskk> $$callsign,your,data,here*checksum
[12:09] <Randomskk> well, what are you looking for?
[12:10] <DanielRichman> Darkside: that's an invalid time you've been uploading (198 hours?) - it won't parse
[12:10] <number10> I was tracking darkside a few weeks back and wondered what the data fields were
[12:10] <DanielRichman> can you upload something else to test?
[12:10] <Darkside> DanielRichman: no gps lock
[12:10] <Darkside> not atm
[12:10] <Darkside> i'm cooking dinner
[12:10] <Randomskk> number10: oh, I see, so
[12:10] <Randomskk> you want to find out what the data fields for a payload mean?
[12:10] <number10> yes
[12:10] <DanielRichman> Darkside: OK np; I've set it up; message me later if you have a problem
[12:11] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: I just set end on the old doc to now, and start on the new doc to now, and end on the new doc to sandbox.
[12:11] <DanielRichman> bit ugly, but it should work (?)
[12:11] <Randomskk> yea that's fine
[12:11] <Randomskk> number10: so right now there's no pretty interface
[12:12] <Randomskk> soonish there will be a pretty way that makes it all look nice
[12:12] <Randomskk> however, in the interim
[12:12] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/habitat/_view/payload_config?startkey=[%22DARKSIDE%22,%22latest%22]&limit=1&include_docs=true
[12:12] <Randomskk> that
[12:12] <Randomskk> run it through http://jsonlint.com/ to make it more readable
[12:12] <Randomskk> also change "DARKSIDE" to whatever you want in the URL
[12:13] <jonsowman> iterm completely fails with that link
[12:13] <Randomskk> and then the config is in that - look from line 46 onwards ("sentence") on jsonlint
[12:13] <Randomskk> sentence["fields"] contains a list of the fields in the string
[12:13] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/9kAJL.jpg
[12:14] <Randomskk> here, count, time, latitude, longitude, altitude, speed, sats, temp_int, temp_int2, battery_raw
[12:14] <Randomskk> eroomde: :|
[12:14] <number10> thanks Randomskk
[12:14] <Randomskk> np
[12:15] <DanielRichman> "Whoosh is a fast, featureful full-text indexing and searching library implemented in pure Python."
[12:15] <DanielRichman> looks cool
[12:16] <Randomskk> oooh.
[12:17] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] PicoAtlas V launch (Mon 5/9/11 11:00BST)"
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[12:23] <DanielRichman> it even has stuff like parser.parse(u"render OR (title:shade keyword:animate)"))
[12:23] <DanielRichman> built in
[12:24] <DanielRichman> no regular expressions though
[12:25] <DanielRichman> (which is fair enough really; would be a bit complex to apply them to an index)
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[12:52] <LazyLeopard> jcoxon: Heh ;) Reviving ancient electronic technology. ;)
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[13:11] <Laurenceb> how do i view STEP files on ubuntu?
[13:12] <DanielRichman> blarrgh unicode hell
[13:13] <Randomskk> <3unicode
[13:13] <Randomskk> haha so look at it this way
[13:13] <Randomskk> your life would be worse if it was all 8bit data with ambiguous and undefined charsets
[13:14] <TimZaman> Randomskk: took me half an hour, but i can now work with json. ;)
[13:14] <TimZaman> works great, thanks a lot.
[13:14] <Randomskk> TimZaman: cool! what language, out of interest?
[13:14] <DanielRichman> :P. unicode(blah, errors='ignore') <-- problem solved
[13:14] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: haha nice
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[13:14] <Randomskk> a few parts of ruby syntax are delicious here, like inline if and rescue
[13:14] <WillDuckworth> hey Laurenceb: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CAD_models
[13:15] <Laurenceb> aha
[13:15] <Randomskk> myvar = some_operation if some_condition rescue default_value
[13:18] <DanielRichman> DEBUG:zeuswhoosh:Adding highaltitude.log.20110221 1298332800.0
[13:18] <DanielRichman> (etc. for all files)
[13:18] <Randomskk> :o
[13:18] <Randomskk> that's super cool
[13:18] <Randomskk> <3 python so much
[13:18] <DanielRichman> (time: ~1 minute for 20MB)
[13:18] <DanielRichman> then: python zeuswhoosh (1s no changes)
[13:19] <Randomskk> also sexy python things: networkx, hotreload
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[13:19] <DanielRichman> but touch logs/highaltitude.log.20110522; python zeuswhoosh.py: DEBUG:zeuswhoosh:Updating highaltitude.log.20110522 1315315138.88
[13:19] <Randomskk> also I'm going to make a python port of that ruby Base class
[13:19] <DanielRichman> hahaha
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[13:19] <DanielRichman> what, are you going to import *?
[13:19] <Randomskk> except I'm going to take it a step further
[13:19] <Randomskk> yes
[13:19] <Randomskk> well Base doesn't
[13:19] <DanielRichman> D:
[13:19] <Randomskk> it just uses all loaded stuff
[13:19] <Randomskk> and adds all those methods to itself
[13:19] <Randomskk> but doesn't load anything new
[13:20] <Randomskk> instead I'm going to go through sys.path, find every package and module, import them
[13:20] <Randomskk> then go through sys.modules
[13:20] <Randomskk> find every package and module
[13:20] <DanielRichman> and submodules?
[13:20] <Randomskk> and for each, find all methods and functions and add them to base
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[13:20] <DanielRichman> and submodules of submodules
[13:20] <Randomskk> of course
[13:20] <DanielRichman> :P that's evil
[13:20] <Randomskk> and make them all accessible via both their actual path and a flat path
[13:20] <Randomskk> "flat is better than nested" - zen of python
[13:20] <Randomskk> "namespaces are one honking great idea" - zen of python
[13:20] <Randomskk> but I'll do both!
[13:20] <Randomskk> superzen
[13:20] <DanielRichman> D:
[13:21] <Randomskk> Base.base64.b64_encode and also base.b64_encode
[13:21] <Randomskk> etc etc
[13:21] <Randomskk> can classes have modules as attributes? I think so
[13:21] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[13:21] <Randomskk> just think how useful it would be
[13:22] <DanielRichman> :D whoosh even deals with locking for you! <3<3
[13:22] <Laurenceb> wow freeCAD owns
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[13:31] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] PicoAtlas V launch (Mon 5/9/11 11:00BST)"
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[13:31] <Hibby> hi mattltm
[13:31] <mattltm> Hi Hibby :~)
[13:32] <Hibby> how goes?
[13:33] <mattltm> Good thanks. Well happy now that I have managed to get the arduino sending custom sms messages :)
[13:33] <mattltm> How's things your end?
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[13:42] Action: Hibby is a not bad
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[13:43] <Hibby> lacking in jetlag which is sweet
[13:43] <mattltm> lol. Nice :)
[13:43] <Hibby> admittedly, I didn't sleep on the plane and went to the pub lst night, and got up at 9am happily today
[13:43] <Hibby> so we shall see tonight/tomorrow
[13:44] <mattltm> Its playing catch up. :p
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[13:47] <Hibby> hahah
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[13:49] <fsphil> I've yet to travel far enough for jetlag, but it doesn't sound like fun
[13:50] <Hibby> I imagine it's shit. I've managed to avoid it on all my big flights, but my sleep pattern is so fucked at the best of times it doesn't matter
[13:50] <Randomskk> meh it's just a good excuse to sleep loads
[13:50] <Randomskk> also as Hibby says my sleep pattern is usually too messed up for it to be a concern :P
[13:51] <Darkside> hey fsphil
[13:51] <Darkside> how did you do 1200 baud
[13:51] <Darkside> i.e. what code did you use
[13:51] <fsphil> which side? rx/tx?
[13:51] <Darkside> TX
[13:51] <Darkside> and RX i guess... i don't have a version of dlfidigi which supports that baud rate
[13:52] <fsphil> have a little interrupt-driven rtty module
[13:52] <Darkside> i wanted to do some mucking around with
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[13:52] <fsphil> and if my internet worked I'd be able to post a link
[13:53] <Darkside> my interrupt driven, do you mean using the internal timer interrupt?
[13:53] <fsphil> yea
[13:53] <Darkside> i have code to do interrupt driven RTTY already
[13:53] <fsphil> https://github.com/fsphil/hadie/blob/master/rtty.c
[13:53] <fsphil> that's basically it .. just set the timer to the proper speed
[13:54] <fsphil> (there's hooks in that code to other things, but it's pretty easy to separate out)
[13:54] <daveake> And not 5% away <cough> :p
[13:54] <Darkside> ooh no arduino :P
[13:54] <fsphil> nope *ahem*
[13:54] <Darkside> :P
[13:54] <fsphil> what's arduino?
[13:54] <Darkside> haha
[13:54] <fsphil> works up to 2400 baud, my timer won't go higher
[13:55] <Hibby> nice
[13:55] <daveake> Why not just use the h/w UART for that sort of speed?
[13:55] <fsphil> that's using a 7.3728 mhz crystal
[13:55] <fsphil> I'm already using both daveake
[13:55] <daveake> That's a good reason
[13:55] <Hibby> seen the nice APRS modem that someone made using an Atmega 328?
[13:55] <fsphil> but yea, after 1200 baud a real uart is more fun
[13:56] <Hibby> *tnc
[13:56] <daveake> Less hassle getting the time period just right
[13:56] <fsphil> I think the last dl-fldigi release does 1200 baud
[13:56] <Darkside> Hibby: i'm pretty sure my Micronut board is APRS capable
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[13:56] <Darkside> o hey
[13:56] <fsphil> it's not a standard fldigi feature
[13:56] <Darkside> so it is
[13:56] <Hibby> https://sites.google.com/site/ki4mcw/Home/arduino-tnc <== the code is nice
[13:57] <Darkside> Hibby: ooh
[13:58] <eroomde> i want to play aprs
[13:58] <Hibby> iirc it works nicely as a kiss TNC
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[13:58] <eroomde> i think it's probably the ideal way for chase teams to communicate
[13:58] <Hibby> we're working on an xmpp extension for aprs
[13:59] <Hibby> so we can aprs message via libpurple
[13:59] <Randomskk> haha that'd be excellent
[13:59] <Hibby> it's the sister to aprsmap
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[14:02] <fsphil> APRSMS
[14:03] <Hibby> lol
[14:03] <Hibby> our new monday night hacking sessions will likely accelerate development on both
[14:03] <fsphil> aprs message service, *and* it has SMS in the name ;)
[14:04] <fsphil> (tip: never let me name things)
[14:05] Action: Hibby dials m for mental
[14:05] <Hibby> "hello? fsphil here"
[14:05] <Darkside> hmm, 11:30pm
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[14:05] <Darkside> i probably shouldn't start hacking the micronut to do 1200 baud RTTY
[14:05] <Hibby> hahah
[14:06] <Darkside> also, we're probably going to try a 115200 baud launch at some point in the future
[14:06] <Darkside> but we'll be cheating and using a 900MHz zigbee xtreme thingo
[14:07] <Darkside> with 1.5 watts of output power
[14:07] <Laurenceb> micronut: a small crazy person
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[14:12] <fsphil> wow
[14:12] <fsphil> you could do low resolution video at 115200 baud :)
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[14:13] <Darkside> fsphil: well, if it works well enough we'll try it :P
[14:14] <Hibby> oh man, an ATV MLP channel would be ace
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[14:15] <Hibby> wth? Mel C of Spice Girls fame on the Alan Titshmarsh show
[14:15] <Hibby> (it's hard not to call it alan partidge show)
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[14:16] <fsphil> high altitude MLP?
[14:16] <Hibby> lol
[14:16] <Hibby> pony shaped balloon
[14:16] <LazyLeopard> Ohhhh deeeeear....
[14:16] <Darkside> :D
[14:16] <Darkside> oh man
[14:17] <Darkside> i need to see if they exist
[14:17] <Darkside> OH MAN i should put rainbow dash in front of a camera on the next launch
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> Would the rainbow be a seperate balloon?
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[14:20] <fsphil> what's a typical speed for a payload to fall at shortly after burst?
[14:20] <Darkside> 50m/s?
[14:20] <Dan-K2VOL> very fast
[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> I think up to 200 mph after a few seconds
[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> morning all
[14:21] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone here that's working on the conference?
[14:21] <fsphil> thanks
[14:22] <eroomde> yo Dan-K2VOL
[14:22] <eroomde> what was that rf chip you were using in the universal remote?
[14:22] <Dan-K2VOL> hey ed
[14:23] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: I think mainly jcoxon and Upu
[14:23] <Dan-K2VOL> MICRF405
[14:23] <Dan-K2VOL> micrel
[14:23] <eroomde> ta
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[14:23] <Dan-K2VOL> works nicely once you figure out the settings, though the SPI interface is a pain in the but to figure out
[14:24] <Darkside> fsphil: were you using a 1200Hz shift when doing 1200 baud?
[14:24] <Dan-K2VOL> mornin upu
[14:24] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: and you can easily set small shifts in FSK?
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, I've never used the FSK mode
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> only used the ASK mode for my application - it requires a few different PLL components to do FSK :-/
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> not sure if it will work as FSK using the components I have on the universal remote, but I can send you one if you want to try it
[14:26] <Darkside> eroomde: what about if someone bears the pain and makes a CC1111 based FSK breakout
[14:26] <eroomde> i'll try and knock up a board myself
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> it's got an ATMEGA328 on it, with ISP pins broken out, though the UART is not
[14:26] <Darkside> oly one person has to do it
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[14:26] <eroomde> Darkside: you mean like badgercub?
[14:26] <Darkside> eroomde: yes, but not with all the code in the CC1111
[14:26] <eroomde> that suffers from the low fsk resolution
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> micrel has a good dev kit, you order it either FSK or ASK
[14:26] <Darkside> just make it read a pin
[14:27] <Darkside> eroomde: ahh
[14:27] <eroomde> you couldn't make it do dominoEX, say
[14:27] <Dan-K2VOL> letme see
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[14:28] <Darkside> morning NigeyS
[14:28] <Darkside> got the PCBs yet?
[14:28] <Darkside> wait, its afternoon there
[14:29] <NigeyS> hey dude, kinda, i missed the postman, theyre redelivering thursday :(
[14:29] <Darkside> ahh ok
[14:29] <Darkside> weird they took so long
[14:29] <Darkside> but i guess you used cheap shipping, right?
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[14:29] <NigeyS> yups, so it actually only took just over 2 weeks, not bot
[14:29] <NigeyS> bad*
[14:30] <Hibby> diy boards?
[14:30] <Hibby> when i bother to finish off my laser cutter, I'm going to use it to make templates for boards that I can then expose
[14:31] <Darkside> NigeyS: heh, mine are already here, and i've assembled 2 boards
[14:31] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde it looks like it would be possible, using divider modulation mode for FSK or possibly by changing the deviation setting?
[14:31] <NigeyS> Hibby, had some boards made up that Darkside designed for ATs and Pico launches :D
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[14:31] <NigeyS> Darkside, no fair!!!
[14:31] <Darkside> NigeyS: jeez, thats not a pico launch :P
[14:31] <Hibby> NigeyS: the micronutters?
[14:31] <Darkside> Hibby: nope
[14:31] <Darkside> this is MegaNut
[14:31] <Darkside> i've got big balls
[14:31] <NigeyS> Darkside, itll be fine for a pico, its still tiny and light :P
[14:31] <Darkside> no wait, NigeyS has big nuts
[14:31] <NigeyS> lol
[14:31] <fsphil> Darkside, 600hz shift
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[14:31] <Darkside> fsphil: woah
[14:32] <Darkside> hell, you could dial that up with the pot on the NTX2, right?
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[14:32] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, you'd have to change settings using an SPI command each time you shift in domino, but it should be possible at that low speed
[14:32] <fsphil> I used a small variable resistor
[14:32] <fsphil> set the payload at 50 baud, adjusted until it had 600hz shift
[14:33] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: ok cool
[14:33] <Darkside> ahh ok
[14:33] <eroomde> do, of the order of 20Hz shifts
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, the data sheet leaves a bunch of math out for calculating frequency divider settings, let me know if you actually get to that point, I'll dig up some calculations I got from the manufacturer
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> brb
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[14:39] <NigeyS> ello fergusnoble
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[14:40] <eroomde> maxim.com catches me out every time
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[14:41] <NigeyS> oh my
[14:41] <eroomde> maxim-ic.com . must remember
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> the real maxim electronics accused me of being a corporate spy once when I ordered a few samples
[14:41] <NigeyS> haha tut tut ed :p
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[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> like flat out "You have been detected as attempting to steal corporate secrets from maxim electronics, and you have been banned"
[14:42] <NigeyS> wtf
[14:42] <NigeyS> just for ordering samples? :|
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> that's what I said, it was just a chip
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> Targets.
[14:42] <NigeyS> lol, wow, talk about paranoia (sp)
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> I contacted their support, and they said that shoudln't have come up
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> Someone has been given the task of preventing corporate espionage.
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> And are justifying their job.
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> and they unbanned me
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> I asked them if ordering a quantity of 6 samples was considered espionage
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> they said no
[14:43] <NigeyS> guess i better not ask for any more temp sensors then lol
[14:44] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe it was aparently a glitch that never should have been shown in the production website
[14:44] <NigeyS> nice glitch
[14:45] <fsphil> a glitch is getting 6 parts instead of 5
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[14:46] <NigeyS> btw which clever clogs suggested filling 1 of these foil balloons with water ?
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[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> well it's something I'd consider doing if you need to know volume
[14:46] <NigeyS> if i get soaked, im blaming you !
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> though you might exceed burst pressure, thinking about it
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> hahaha
[14:47] <Dan-K2VOL> let me do the math quickly, what's the height of the envelope
[14:47] <NigeyS> you're asking me a math question before ive had my 1st cup of coffee... that;s not wise dan! lol
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL> lol, I'm guessing .8m?
[14:48] <NigeyS> let me check ...
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL> that should result in about 0.9 psi at the bottom, which should be ok, but don't bounce it
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> upu u around?
[14:49] <NigeyS> its 35 n a bit inches
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> oh
[14:49] Action: NigeyS finds him swimming trunks
[14:50] Action: fsphil puts on some goggles
[14:50] <NigeyS> lol phil
[14:50] <Hibby> oh man, when the next one comes around I'm so applying for: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/roadtest
[14:50] <Dan-K2VOL> that's 1.3psi so, well, you're beyond the burst pressure of teh balloons that rocketboy tested!
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[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> you can put it in a bin liner :-)
[14:51] <NigeyS> lol thanks!
[14:51] <fsphil> science with party balloons. love it
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> but if it's actually bi-axially oriented mylar, that should hold
[14:52] <NigeyS> tell ya what, they maybe party balloons but it can be bloody expensive, at 7 quid each
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> (BoPET)
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> yikes
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> ripoff is what it is
[14:52] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL, shall i just forgo my shower until after the water test? lol
[14:52] <Hibby> how about DIYing them?
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[14:53] <NigeyS> gw8rak was on about trying that
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL> oh actually nigeys, an easy way to do that regardless of burst pressure would be to do it underwater
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> and just pump water in or out into a measuring container
[14:54] <NigeyS> hmm, it might just fit in the jacuzzi ...
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> there you go
[14:55] <NigeyS> schweet ill run the test tonight, ive got to get this server back up and running before alarms start going off :/
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[14:55] <Hibby> right
[14:55] <Hibby> really need to do some blogging or I shall be in toruble
[14:55] <Hibby> **trouble
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
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[15:10] <TimZaman> Randomskk: php :)
[15:10] <TimZaman> its like three lines if not more.
[15:10] <Randomskk> ah yea
[15:11] <TimZaman> It's shaping up to be a pretty nice site. I dont like ajax that much
[15:11] <Randomskk> so long as you have the json library installed, php works fine
[15:11] <TimZaman> well i do like it, but its not for me
[15:11] <Randomskk> you don't like ajax?
[15:11] <Randomskk> what javascript library are you using?
[15:11] <TimZaman> i love it, but im not too interested in web
[15:11] <TimZaman> No clue
[15:11] <eroomde> hmm i think it's going to be very hard to find a 430ish mhz ic that will sustain shifts of order 10Hz
[15:11] <TimZaman> it works thats for sure
[15:11] <eroomde> not many alternatives to the radiometrix!
[15:11] <Randomskk> TimZaman: are you using a javascript library?
[15:11] <Randomskk> eroomde: not digitally anyway, jon and I had a really good look
[15:11] <NigeyS> TimZaman, please dont mention php!
[15:12] <Randomskk> but there might well be some other ways of doing it
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> have you looked at the circuit bill brown is using?
[15:12] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde
[15:12] <TimZaman> Randomskk: i have no idea.
[15:12] <Randomskk> TimZaman: well, are you writing javascript?
[15:12] <TimZaman> Randomskk: php?
[15:12] <Randomskk> you're not writing any javascript to do the ajax?
[15:12] <TimZaman> ooooh. no i said, i wansnt going to do ajax
[15:12] <TimZaman> too much work, havent used it for a year.
[15:13] <Randomskk> ah, right, okay
[15:13] <TimZaman> u just put an half a minute update on the page, :P
[15:13] <Randomskk> eww
[15:13] <Randomskk> :P
[15:13] <TimZaman> i know.
[15:13] <TimZaman> phil has got some SSDV json stuff worked out as well
[15:13] <TimZaman> my page is almost done, show you in 15 mins or so
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[15:19] <fsphil> the ssdv does some ajax'y stuff, was fun to do, worked well
[15:19] <fsphil> the image update had a bad flicker though, never did get a chance to fix it
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[15:34] <Darkside> nn
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[15:40] <TimZaman> nn
[15:40] <TimZaman> well i'm getting there
[15:40] <TimZaman> do realize that i have no web skills at all
[15:40] <TimZaman> http://www.timzaman.nl/?page_id=1332&lang=en
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[15:41] <TimZaman> Its worse than any part alone, buts its the only place to combine both the tracker, images and twitter
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[15:51] <eroomde> RocketBoy: did you do some experiemnts with 169Mhz?
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[15:57] <RocketBoy> sort of - built a transmitter and receiver pair and a yagi - put the receiver in one of rjharrisons payloads (the idea was to log the signal quality) - but the payload was lost
[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> hey rocketboy
[15:58] <RocketBoy> hiya dan - hows stuff
[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> pretty good steve
[15:59] <Dan-K2VOL> are you doing anything for the conference?
[15:59] <RocketBoy> don't really know - i put a couple of ideas forward - waiting to hear the adjenda
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[16:00] <RocketBoy> I'm hoping we have a discussion on the need for a national organisation (or nt)
[16:00] <RocketBoy> not
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[16:01] <RocketBoy> maybe do a short presentation on payload testing
[16:01] <eroomde> there's a question and a half
[16:01] <eroomde> RocketBoy: re: 169. Nevermind. It looks interesting, though the duty cycle seems to be constrained quite a lot
[16:01] <RocketBoy> yeah - that should give people somtning to chew on
[16:01] <eroomde> not that observing duty cycle laws ever seems to have bothered any of us
[16:02] <RocketBoy> :-)
[16:02] <RocketBoy> yeah 168 has the best overall power+pathloss methinks
[16:02] <eroomde> yeah
[16:03] <eroomde> one could do a lot with it
[16:03] <eroomde> and probably not be bothered by hams email about their repeater input frequencies
[16:03] <eroomde> which would make a nice change
[16:03] <RocketBoy> its never worried me
[16:03] <eroomde> but I suppose it rules out a lot of Rx kit
[16:04] <eroomde> the 790s at least
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[16:05] <RocketBoy> I was thinking of only using it on the uplink
[16:05] <SamSilver> I am all ears on uplink
[16:06] <eroomde> hrm, this is back to the controvery over whether or not you can use the full force of your license for uplinks
[16:07] <RocketBoy> thats why i was exploring 168 - i think technically you can't
[16:07] <RocketBoy> but its probably stretching a point
[16:08] <eroomde> i was planning on just saying 'well... look at amsat' if anyone objected
[16:09] <RocketBoy> well - I can see that point of view - but I think that would be deemed amateur radio - becuase you are communicating with a satellite in the amateur radio service
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[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm thinking of doing a talk on the maths of superpressure flight
[16:10] <Hibby> ustream it please
[16:10] <RocketBoy> whereas a UK HAB cant be amateure radio - cos its explicitly excluded from the licennce
[16:10] <Hibby> but we can transmit to the hab using the license if we so desire, according to my interpretation of the laws
[16:11] <Hibby> or just launch in scotland were ofcom have no actual vehicles/presence/care
[16:11] <RocketBoy> Dan: have you seen float1b.xls
[16:11] <Hibby> /win 10
[16:11] <Hibby> dangit
[16:12] <RocketBoy> Hibby: thats my point I don't think you can leagally transmit to the payload using your ham radio licence
[16:12] <Hibby> RocketBoy: that may be your interpretation...
[16:12] <Hibby> :p
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[16:14] <RocketBoy> Hibby; agreed but if you want to point to the regs that say you can I would be interested
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[16:14] <RocketBoy> otherwise its just your interpritation too
[16:15] <eroomde> hmm, i think RocketBoy is right, having just re-read the license
[16:15] <RocketBoy> :p
[16:15] <eroomde> it rather hinges on the definition of 'Radio Equipment' used in Section 10 and throughout
[16:15] <Dan-K2VOL> I do have it rocketboy
[16:15] <griffonbot> @danielsaul: Ordering @apexhab stickers :D #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/danielsaul/status/111110281312210945]
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[16:16] <normalguy> hello
[16:16] <eroomde> but then a sattelite doesn't fall into radio equipment under the license
[16:16] <eroomde> maybe it has a specific exemption?
[16:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm thinking of explaining the formulas that go into calculations like that, and discussing the general findings of some old academic papers on superpressure balloon experiments and how they might be implemented today
[16:16] <Dan-K2VOL> rocketboy^
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[16:17] <RocketBoy_> Dan-K2VOL: Could you give it a once over - I'm really questioning the maths recently - with the recent SP pico flights
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[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> sure, I'm just getting to know the maths myself, so I'll get with you in a few weeks on that, I'd like to try some comparisons through your sheet once I'm comfortabel with the on-paper calculations
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[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> just curious, what were your sources for the maths? was it simply logical deduction or did you find some published formulas?
[16:20] <RocketBoy> eroomde: what stared me thinking about the licence was when I took the US ham radio licence tests
[16:20] <eroomde> uhuh
[16:21] <RocketBoy> Dan-K2VOL: just a bit of reading here and there - and deduction
[16:21] <RocketBoy> basically float should occur when the balloon + payload density equals the surrounding air
[16:22] <normalguy> hey, i've been reading upu's guide here: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 and i was wondering if i could ask a question?
[16:22] <eroomde> don't ask to ask, just ask
[16:22] <eroomde> as they say on IRC
[16:23] <normalguy> haha sorry
[16:23] <RocketBoy> eroomde: lots of stuff about oly communicating with stations in the amateur radio service
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[16:23] <normalguy> seemed you were in conversation
[16:23] <eroomde> ah ok
[16:23] <eroomde> normalguy: gosh don;t worry, just dive in
[16:23] <eroomde> RocketBoy: so specific handling for satts in the us license
[16:24] <normalguy> anyway, the guide seems to only cover connecting a transmitter to an arduino: how would i connect a gps unit such as the trimble to that setup?
[16:24] <normalguy> do i need extra code for that as well
[16:24] <normalguy> it isnt really clear
[16:25] <eroomde> you would, yes
[16:25] <RocketBoy> eroomde: not sure - but they are specifically built for ham radio use
[16:25] <mattltm> Go ahead and ask normalguy...
[16:25] <eroomde> as you've correctly understood, that just covers microcontroller -> Transmitter
[16:25] <Randomskk> our payloads are "specifically built" for HAM uplink use
[16:25] <Randomskk> doesn't change the license terms
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[16:26] <mattltm> lol. Opps, buffered text!
[16:26] <mattltm> Ignore me!
[16:26] <eroomde> normalguy: so you would need some more code to handle GPS -> microcontroller
[16:26] <normalguy> ok, is there anywhere this is available, and how would io go about connecting the two?
[16:27] <normalguy> i assume they dont just plug together :)
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[16:27] <normalguy> (though that would be nice)
[16:27] <eroomde> you might say 'why bother with the microcontroller' which is a sensible question. It's simply that the GPS blasts out data much too fast for the radio. To get the long range with our low power budgets, we need to slow the transmission right down
[16:28] <eroomde> normalguy: yep, there are a wealth of projects about which have done exactly this
[16:28] <eroomde> infact basically all of them have had to solve this problem
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[16:28] <normalguy> sorry, what i was asking was if i connect the radio to the arduino, how do i connect the gps to the connected arduino
[16:28] <eroomde> you ARE going to have to get your feet wet with a little electronics knowledge and research though
[16:28] <normalguy> please could you link me, and i'll be sure to read up
[16:28] <eroomde> if it was just plug and play it would be too easy
[16:28] <RocketBoy> normalguy: consider it a right of passage into HAB
[16:29] <eroomde> it's simple enough that you should be able to write the gps handling code yourself
[16:30] <eroomde> once you understand what it is that needs to be done. GPS talks over logic-level rs232
[16:30] <normalguy> what about the physical connection?
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[16:30] <eroomde> normalguy: it's logic level rs232
[16:30] <eroomde> 3 lines
[16:30] <eroomde> so, an arduino tutorial should cover hooking up serial devices and talking to them
[16:31] <eroomde> that's basically all you need
[16:31] <eroomde> normalguy: start there^
[16:31] <normalguy> thanks, i'll take a look
[16:31] <eroomde> if you give up and want to cheat
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[16:32] <eroomde> fail
[16:32] <mattltm> lol.
[16:32] <mattltm> No cheating!
[16:32] <eroomde> !ferret+tracker+github
[16:32] <mattltm> zeusbot will not allow it!
[16:32] <eroomde> oh i've upset zeusbot now
[16:33] <mattltm> lol.
[16:33] <eroomde> ok, looks like there won't be any cheating
[16:33] <jonsowman> he's a bit precious
[16:33] <normalguy> c'mon zeusbot, be nice
[16:34] <eroomde> odd
[16:34] <daveake> argument?
[16:34] <eroomde> or that
[16:34] <daveake> :)
[16:35] <eroomde> i was trying to see if he died as a function of number of terms
[16:35] <Upu> afternoon
[16:35] <mattltm> http://tinyurl.com/3p96ymh
[16:36] <jonsowman> interesting
[16:36] <jonsowman> it's also a extensible information retrieval library for ruby
[16:36] <jonsowman> *an
[16:36] <normalguy> wait, what just happened? i'm reading the github code and arduino info
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[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> hey upu
[16:37] <Upu> hi Dan
[16:37] <Upu> hye normalguy you ever linked anything via serial on a PC ?
[16:37] <normalguy> hello,
[16:37] <Upu> or too young for multiplayer Doom ? :)
[16:37] <normalguy> too young :) thats not to say i cant learn however
[16:37] <normalguy> :)
[16:38] <Upu> start simple go make a program that lets you send data via serial from your PC to your Arduino
[16:38] <SamSilver> normalguy: what country are you in?
[16:38] <normalguy> uk
[16:39] <normalguy> i'll try
[16:39] <SamSilver> afk
[16:40] <Upu> just make an echo program so you open hyperterm on your PC , type something and the Arduino echos it back
[16:40] <Upu> do that and you're 1/2 way to getting a GPS talk to the Arduino
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[16:43] <eroomde> bbl
[16:45] <normalguy> i must say, this is pretty complicated.
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[16:45] <Upu> once it clicks its not that hard
[16:46] <Upu> have you got an old modem to hand ?
[16:46] <Dan-K2VOL> lol normalguy, there are easier ways, but like many hobbies, it takes some time to learn the intricacies
[16:46] <normalguy> such as what? it seems sensible to try easier ways before jumping into the more difficult
[16:47] <normalguy> and maybe, though it's an old belkin
[16:47] <Upu> go plug it into your serial port
[16:47] <normalguy> and it was flakey to say the least :) why?
[16:47] <Upu> open up hyperterminal
[16:47] <Upu> and type ati
[16:48] <Upu> atdt1234567
[16:48] <Upu> etc
[16:48] <mattltm> AGH! I thought I had this sms thing done!
[16:48] <normalguy> i thought that only worked at lower altitudes?
[16:48] <normalguy> and it wasnt mentioned?
[16:49] <normalguy> i'll try to find it now :)
[16:49] <Laurenceb> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/apollosites.html
[16:49] <Laurenceb> take that conspiracy theorists
[16:50] <normalguy> they never had a leg to stand on in the first place tbh
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[16:53] <SpeedEvil> It was all shot on a sound-stage.
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> 9/11 that is.
[16:55] <daveake> Those spots in the photos aren't Apollo landers. They're Elvis's houses.
[16:57] <normalguy> one more question before i go to learn more: in upu's guide he uses a breadboard for connections: would this be ok for a flight or would you need to make a pcb?
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[17:00] <daveake> PCB or vero or prototyping boards. Needs to be soldered - all the bits would fall out of a breadboard. You can get cheap prototyping boards for Arduino.
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[17:01] <Upu> normalguy http://youtu.be/cPyG4ahAHb0 have a watch of that and see why it needs to be soldered
[17:02] <TimZaman> <3 ajax
[17:02] <Upu> thats yours Tim :)
[17:03] <eroomde> normalguy: from 3:56
[17:03] <eroomde> the video ^
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Security-Infrared-Sensors-Mirror-Germanium-Lens-Frame-/140433388287?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b27b72ff - I don't see how this makes a usable detector
[17:04] <TimZaman> Upu: what do you think, is that the worst and fastest dropdown ever?
[17:04] <TimZaman> i clocked it at 150km/h
[17:04] <Upu> its impressive Tim :)
[17:05] <TimZaman> and that is ignorting the rotational speed
[17:05] <Upu> yeah must have been pulling some G
[17:05] <Upu> anyway afk for a few
[17:05] <jcoxon> wow its blowey
[17:05] <eroomde> last of irene
[17:05] <normalguy> haha, did it recovere ok?
[17:06] <daveake> My Arduino rebooted on "landing". Probably because I left the reset button on there, and the battery hit it. Don't leave anything loose!
[17:08] <TimZaman> HAHAHA hahaha its still funny: for sure the fastest HAB ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPyG4ahAHb0&feature=youtu.be#t=7m08s
[17:08] <eroomde> i think we beat that...
[17:08] <Dan-K2VOL> now can you imagine riding in that? That's similar in rotation rate to what Neil Armstrong got into when on the Gemini-Agena docking mission
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> TimZaman: I wish I'd remembered that.
[17:10] <TimZaman> You mean lance armstrong?
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> TimZaman: It'd have been ideal for the guy asking about camera setup.
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[17:10] <TimZaman> SpeedEvil: what do you maen?
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> It'd be entertaining to work out a maximum exposure time for a 1 pixel blur
[17:10] <normalguy> afk
[17:11] <TimZaman> ?
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[17:11] <SpeedEvil> TimZaman: If it's going at 1000 degrees/second, then to get a .1 second motion-blur on the image, you need a 100us shutter.
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> .1 degree motion blur
[17:12] <TimZaman> i did make a new plot from the EXIF info from that flight using the Light Value (its like EV only relativates it to 100ISO) http://www.timzaman.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/untitle2d.jpg
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[17:12] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy
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[17:13] <Wild-Wing> hello
[17:14] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: pong
[17:14] <TimZaman> So the LV is like 15.. so, if you want a 1/10000 exposure time at 100 ISO, you need f1. Most lenzes don't do that :)
[17:14] <TimZaman> Most cameras are maxed at 1/4000th anyway
[17:14] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, you seen this? http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10153
[17:15] <RocketBoy> nope - reading
[17:16] <eroomde> gosh
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[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Oh noes - it's probably not type appoved.
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[17:16] <eroomde> sssssh
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[17:17] <Upu> interesting that looks pin for pin like an ISM 300 GPS with no sheild on it
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[17:20] <eroomde> jcoxon: looks again like the freq deviation is a bit high
[17:20] <jcoxon> eroomde, yeah thats why i initially dismissed it
[17:20] <jcoxon> however had a chat with steve yesterday about these sort of devices
[17:20] <eroomde> i really wish there was a smaller ligher ntx2 equivalent
[17:20] <eroomde> well, smaller
[17:21] <Upu> lighter ? :)
[17:21] <jcoxon> there might be a way to toggle the freq
[17:21] <eroomde> the carrier freq?
[17:21] <Upu> there is a talk about NTX2 alternatives at the conference
[17:21] <eroomde> Upu: who is giving it?
[17:21] <Upu> sec
[17:22] <Upu> Randomskk & jonsowman
[17:22] <Upu> sorry for highlight..
[17:22] <eroomde> oh
[17:22] <RocketBoy> looks like you can get down to a 300Hz shift with that device
[17:22] <eroomde> Randomskk is that proven yet?
[17:22] <jonsowman> eroomde: haven't had much time to work on it recently
[17:23] <RocketBoy> so may be good - need to get one to try
[17:23] <eroomde> so carrier freq toggling (instead of using the 'proper' fsk hardware) is exactly what we did on badger cub and badger 2
[17:23] <eroomde> but, it's just a bit stinky really
[17:23] <eroomde> and completely rules out nicer future modes to dominoex
[17:23] <RocketBoy> stinky how
[17:23] <eroomde> by ruling out nicer future modes like dominoex
[17:23] <eroomde> that was one point presented as two
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[17:24] <eroomde> rhetorical trick
[17:24] <RocketBoy> sure - but its alot smaller/lighter
[17:24] <eroomde> true, though i've never got upset about the mass of an ntx2
[17:24] <eroomde> but smaller yeah for sure
[17:25] <eroomde> but then there are a whole bunch of modules that will do so of <1khz (tho not much) 434mhz hopping
[17:25] <RocketBoy> mind you I guess there will be little filtering - so the shifts will be instant
[17:25] <eroomde> even smaller still
[17:25] <RocketBoy> well with pico the NTX2 is looking a bit big
[17:26] <eroomde> well, i assume it's a pll doing the shiftwage?
[17:26] <eroomde> what is pico?
[17:26] <RocketBoy> pico payloads
[17:26] <eroomde> oh
[17:26] <eroomde> yes it is, i agree
[17:26] <RocketBoy> like jcoxons
[17:26] <eroomde> i think one should be able to get a postaage stamp sized flight computer, save for antennas
[17:26] <RocketBoy> looking for a quantum reduction in mass
[17:27] <RocketBoy> yep
[17:27] <eroomde> i honestly thing that power consumption/batteries should be the attack vector for pico payloads of that scale
[17:27] <RocketBoy> yep - thats where most of the mass is
[17:28] <eroomde> if you could get down to a coin-cell...
[17:28] <eroomde> maybe a higher efficient amp on the radio
[17:28] <eroomde> and ook
[17:28] <eroomde> rather than a linear inefficient thing that needs 30-40mA at 3V
[17:28] <daveake> For my small payload, about 100g including chute etc., the batteries are a significant 25% of the total.
[17:29] <eroomde> the ubloc 6 modules will do a lower power mode which is 22mW RocketBoy
[17:29] <eroomde> the neo and max units at any rate
[17:29] <eroomde> 1.8V
[17:30] <eroomde> the 1.8V AVRs will do about 0.25mA at 1MHz
[17:30] <eroomde> which might just be enough
[17:30] <eroomde> so you're on about 25mW before radio
[17:30] <eroomde> and all these tiny 16pin qfn ism radios will do ASK
[17:31] <eroomde> presumably quite efficiently
[17:31] <RocketBoy> yep I'm sure much lighter is practical
[17:31] <eroomde> i guess though that hellschreiber isn't easily parsable for dl-fldigi :)
[17:32] <jcoxon> eroomde, its soo cool though
[17:32] <eroomde> do you know of any good digital ASK/OOK modes?
[17:32] <eroomde> maybe with FEC in the standard?
[17:33] <eroomde> well, i ask this just because of my understanding of amplifiers (which is flaky) that a type A in OOK is probably better than a linear doing FSK
[17:33] <RocketBoy> full carrier modes are normally more efficent
[17:34] <RocketBoy> dont think so
[17:34] <eroomde> but i guess the constraint is the best way of turning mA into bits
[17:35] <jcoxon> eroomde, perhaps solar would be the way for this
[17:35] <RocketBoy> well power is power so looking for the mode with the best BER for a given speed and power should be the aim
[17:35] <eroomde> but that doesn't take amplifier efficientcy into account
[17:36] <RocketBoy> true - which is one of the reasons i think the full carrier modes are better
[17:36] <eroomde> cos fsk is the best BER/mW
[17:37] <RocketBoy> is it - not PSK?
[17:37] <eroomde> where bandwidth is not a constraint
[17:37] <eroomde> yep
[17:37] <eroomde> for bandwidth constraints, psk is best
[17:37] <eroomde> for power, FSK
[17:37] <eroomde> power constraints*
[17:38] <jcoxon> 10mW is 10dbm isn't it?
[17:38] <eroomde> yup
[17:38] <RocketBoy> where is a shift/power trade off for FSK IIRC
[17:38] <RocketBoy> there is..
[17:38] <eroomde> s/where/there?
[17:38] <eroomde> yeah
[17:39] <RocketBoy> more shift gives a better S/N
[17:39] <RocketBoy> for FSK
[17:39] <eroomde> but it's sort of at an extreme where you don't have to worry with 50baud having to fit into a 3khz amatur channel
[17:39] <eroomde> it's effectively infinite
[17:39] <eroomde> i feel like lightning might strike me for saying that
[17:40] <RocketBoy> duck
[17:40] <eroomde> what i mean is, where you have to worry about baud-rate divided by shift is much lower ratio that 50 baud signals in 3khz channels
[17:40] <eroomde> sorry gtg
[17:40] <eroomde> bbl
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[18:25] <daveake> ping fsphil
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[18:55] <number10> daveake: do you know what the reason is for using foil balloons for pico/low alt type flights rather than small latex?
[18:55] <jcoxon> number10, i do!
[18:56] <number10> hi james - ?
[18:56] <daveake> james is your man, not me :)
[18:57] <jcoxon> the thinking is that foil balloons will super-pressurise rather than burst
[18:57] <jcoxon> the super-pressure results in a float
[18:57] <jcoxon> latex would jsut go up a bit and then burst
[18:57] <number10> ah - so thats how you get to float
[18:58] <jcoxon> thats the theory
[18:58] <number10> and the idea is to get a really long flight, say across the continent?
[18:58] <number10> well across the n.sea?
[19:00] <jcoxon> yes
[19:02] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[19:03] <number10> thanks - jcoxon
[19:03] <mattltm> eek! why does my gps time not match the actual time?
[19:04] <mattltm> time now = 20:01, gps time = 18:50
[19:04] <Hibby> UTC?
[19:04] <jcoxon> mattltm, cause its utc
[19:04] <jcoxon> has it actually got lock?
[19:05] <jcoxon> or is that hte last time?
[19:05] <jcoxon> someimes they keep the time from before
[19:05] <mattltm> it has lock
[19:05] <mattltm> odd that its got the 11mins bit
[19:06] <Hibby> did you not hear? you're living in the past
[19:07] <mattltm> lol. Thats about right!
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[19:17] <jcoxon> hey nickolai89 did the launch go ahead?
[19:18] <nickolai89> hey jcoxon, no unfortunately i scrubbed after we had filled the balloon up because, mysteriously, the failure rate on the GPS sentences was really high, something like 1 in 30 passed the checksum
[19:18] <nickolai89> the night before it was like 3 in 4 would pass
[19:19] <jcoxon> what gps?
[19:19] <nickolai89> garmin gps 18x-lvc
[19:19] <jcoxon> arduino?
[19:19] <nickolai89> yea
[19:19] <jcoxon> tinygps?
[19:20] <nickolai89> it's a little messed up in that it uses RS232 logic, but TTY levels, so it needs an inverter. not finding one readymade online, i just used NSS's software inverter capability
[19:20] <nickolai89> no i wrote my own code, i tried tinygps but didn't like it
[19:20] <jcoxon> are you overfilling nss buffer?
[19:20] <jcoxon> i've had to increase it before
[19:20] <nickolai89> don't think so... how would i know?
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[19:30] <jcoxon> nickolai89, my experience is that is often why sentences fail
[19:30] <jcoxon> as you miss a character off the checksum
[19:30] <nickolai89> i ordered a lassen iq to replace it, but i'll also post on the arduino forums to see if there's something else i can do software
[19:30] <nickolai89> -wise
[19:30] <jcoxon> but thats my experiecne with nss and tinygps
[19:31] <nickolai89> anyway, gotta go get my car battery replaced and return the helium
[19:31] <nickolai89> cya
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[19:46] <Upu> http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/09/06/moon12_new_large.jpg they got pretty close to that Surveyor3, almost landed on top of it.
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[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> hello fsphil daveake m1x10 mattltm NigeyS RocketBoy rjharrison jonsowman Dan-K2VOL Zuph priyesh DanielRichman
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL> hi
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside and all others
[19:53] <natrium42> :(
[19:53] Action: Lunar_Lander has to catch his breath
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi natrium42 nickolai
[19:54] <priyesh> hello Lunar_Lander
[19:54] <natrium42> hi all
[19:55] <daveake> Hi Lunar_Lander
[19:58] <TimZaman> someone explain this http://spacenear.us/tracker/images/markers/balloon-rob.png
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> oh hello TimZaman
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[19:59] <TimZaman> Lunar_Lander: im insulted
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh!
[19:59] <TimZaman> you named 16 excluding myself
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> I think I now have to build that mountain in Flevoland
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[20:00] <TimZaman> the what
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> I read that someone wants to pile up a mountain in Flevoland
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> because he thinks that the Netherlands need a mountain
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,784085,00.html
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[20:01] <Upu> haha
[20:02] <Upu> ok I can explain that one TimZaman
[20:02] <Upu> Rob and Steve did a launch with James May from Top Gear
[20:02] <Upu> I was taking some pictures and Rob decided to jump up with the balloon
[20:03] <Upu> as if he was floating away
[20:03] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201107ManLab?authkey=Gv1sRgCLLdyqux5_buDw&gsessionid=UiC9RfRjbq6v7NKxZmfLwQ#5635428292176649666
[20:03] <Upu> natrium42 felt Rob deserved his on icon for this
[20:03] <daveake> :)
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: Landfill solution!
[20:04] <Upu> hmm 360' camera :
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:04] <Upu> http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.207-9668.aspx?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=GSF_NormalFeed&utm_campaign=GSF_TescoDirect&utm_content=207-9668
[20:06] <DanielRichman> hi natrium42
[20:06] <natrium42> yo DanielRichman
[20:06] <DanielRichman> sup I made some changes to the tracker. I don't know whether you keep it under vcs or whatever, but it was just some small changes to tracker.js.php
[20:07] <DanielRichman> the changes were in the custom data section (see function habitat_data and where it's used) and the bit that deals with combining listener callsigns (search for sequence already exists)
[20:07] <DanielRichman> I hope the changes are OK with you
[20:07] <natrium42> nah, no vcs, sound great
[20:08] <TimZaman> Upu whos Landcruiser is that?
[20:08] <Upu> Robs wifes
[20:08] <DanielRichman> habitat will forward any dict items that were not used for anything else in the data parameter as a JSON dict; e.g., {"pressure": blah}. habitat_data has a list of key names and a pretty human readable equivilant
[20:08] <TimZaman> WIFES?
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/15mm-detachable-180-degree-wide-angle-fish-eye-lens-for-cell-phones-and-compact-digital-cameras-39814
[20:08] <TimZaman> what car does rob have!!?
[20:08] <natrium42> DanielRichman: ah, awesome
[20:08] <Upu> Err a BMW I think rjharrison ?
[20:09] <TimZaman> anyway, i rented a Landcruiser on my vacation in iceland a few weeks back
[20:09] <DanielRichman> so the process for adding extra info to the payload (sats, battery, blah) is to setup habitat ot parse it to a pre-agreed key (battery_volts, battery_millivolts) etc. and then make sure spacenear knows what that key should be called
[20:09] <TimZaman> great car.
[20:09] <DanielRichman> but the latter step only needs to be done once so from now on whenever someone's telemetry parses (by habitat) to have a 'sats' key spacenear will display it, etc.
[20:09] <Upu> I sorta broke it on the way back , something fell of the bottom
[20:10] <natrium42> DanielRichman: so the captions are passed on to spacenear too>
[20:10] <natrium42> ?
[20:11] <DanielRichman> nah, spacenear.us has the captions
[20:11] <DanielRichman> it can only display data it knows a caption for
[20:11] <natrium42> oh, okay
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> could it show on free text on a point when clicked?
[20:11] <DanielRichman> so this is from tracker.js.php http://pastie.org/private/vrgd3lgxgl63rc7acwvgja
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[20:12] <natrium42> oh, i see, looks great
[20:13] <DanielRichman> yeah so I just reread my rambling... the important bit is that list of extra data. If habitat parses something to have a key from the list in that pastie (which can be easily extended) then it will be shown ;-)
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[21:45] <Hibby> I've just had the 20% cooler line from my mother
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[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> is it a good idea to include a current sensor into the circuit?
[21:57] <Hibby> It's not something I've ever done - any protection comes from a fuse/circuit breaker usually.
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> just to get the current in the circuit over the flight
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> or maybe better would be to record the battery voltage
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[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
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[22:04] <RocketBoy> :-)
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about recording the battery voltage over the course of the ascent?
[22:06] <Hibby> we did that in one of the skypod launches
[22:07] <Hibby> made a good graph
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:07] <Hibby> Lunar_Lander: http://personal.strath.ac.uk/james.tosh/launchanalysis_files/image027.gif
[22:08] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: sure - easy enough to do - be good to put it on the downlink - so that if there is a failure you will know why
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> how do you do it?
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> sparkfun has a current sensor section
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> but no voltage sensors
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> or am I blind? :)
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Hibby
[22:09] <RocketBoy> have you an a2d in the micro
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> I got an arduino
[22:09] <RocketBoy> I don't use them - but id be surprised if there wsn't an a2d
[22:10] <RocketBoy> wasn't
[22:10] <Hibby> pretty sure there's a 10bit adc in the arduinos
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah that you mean
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I think there is one
[22:11] <RocketBoy> just make a 2 resistor potential divider and hook it up to the battery
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:11] <RocketBoy> and measure using the A2D
[22:12] <RocketBoy> i use 2 x 4K7 resistors - with a 10 bit A2D and a 3.3V micro that gives me 6.6V = a reading of 1024
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> that helps me a bit
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)!
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[22:16] <normalguy> Hello, testing, please reply if you see this :)
[22:16] <normalguy> (trying irc on ipad)
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:17] <normalguy> Yes!
[22:17] <Hibby> I don't see it
[22:17] <normalguy> Didnt seem to work the other day
[22:18] <normalguy> What do you guys think of this as a tracker http://www.snooperuk.com/products/my_trak_wpt250_sport/index.html#specifications looks interesting on paper at least
[22:18] <normalguy> Though i see radio is the preference here of course
[22:19] <Hibby> gsm won't work about about 500 feet
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Monthly subscription
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> And that
[22:19] <normalguy> Sorry shouldve read closer
[22:19] <Hibby> It makes very little sense for cell companies to radiate energy into the sky ~ for them it's wasting money as no subscribers live above that
[22:19] <normalguy> True
[22:20] <Hibby> (500ft above average terrain)
[22:20] <Hibby> radio is the preference because we can control how we do it, to some extent, and the radio module we use in the UK is one of only a couple we can do legally.
[22:20] <normalguy> Oh i know, i wasnt knocking it in the least
[22:21] <Hibby> we had a launch that (after it shed the actual payload) floated off with only a mobile phone, and it pretty much correlated with only the 500 feet rule
[22:21] <normalguy> I heard 2km quoted for mobile phones?
[22:21] <RocketBoy> I have carried a gsm tracker on a few flights - and in several instances they havn't worked and I have ony found the payload by the radio tracker
[22:21] <normalguy> Or am i thinking of something else?
[22:22] <Hibby> 2km is, afaik, pretty hopeful
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> normalguy: It varies.
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> normalguy: It depends on exactly where you are in relation to the antenna, and how well it's pointed, and how new it is.
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> And how skillful the setup is.
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> If it's properly setup, it's directing almost all its energy at the ground.
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> btw RocketBoy I was astonished to see that capacitors and coils are also sometimes made with a colour cod
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> *code
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Any that misses is wasted.
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: transistors too
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> (not recently)
[22:24] <Hibby> there's always the easily forgettable number code for tiny capacitors
[22:24] <RocketBoy> The failure seems to be that they get confused above 18Km and don't recover until on the ground - but becase the payload is close to the ground there is no GSM coverage
[22:24] <normalguy> Makes sense - a lot more skill involved than one would first imagine.
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah SpeedEvil
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> most interesting was a picture on wikipedia which showed coils with colour code which appeared like resistors
[22:25] <RocketBoy> yeah it is
[22:25] <RocketBoy> the colour code is just a way of representing numbers
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, true
[22:25] <RocketBoy> thay can be ohms, uH or nF
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> this is the picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Festinduktivitaeten.jpg
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:28] <normalguy> Thought they were resistors at first glance.
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> blue-gray-gold-silver
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[22:29] <RocketBoy> yeah its difficult to tell - you sort of get a feel for it in the end
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> 6-8-x0.1-10%
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> 6.8 uH
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> red-red-black-silver: 2-2-x1-10%
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> 22 uH
[22:30] <RocketBoy> i think the gold and silver may be the give away
[22:30] <RocketBoy> i'd only expect 1 of those on a resistor
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> true
[22:30] <RocketBoy> (or neither)
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> the resistors I bought are blue and green and have five rings
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> and the tolerance ring is brown all the time
[22:31] <RocketBoy> yeah the'll be 1% or similar
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[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> but I read that there are also ones with green, blue or violet as tolerance
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and they mean something like 0.1% or less
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> seems to be expensive stuff
[22:32] <RocketBoy> pink was used too for somthing - i forget
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> but not on resistors as far as I can tell
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> I had a electronics kit when I was young
[22:33] <RocketBoy> i think it was
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> that had beige 4-ring resistors
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> maybe the blue 5-ring ones are more professional or so
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> because I have seen them in appliances
[22:35] <RocketBoy> "If there is a fifth pink band this indicates a high stability resistor."
[22:37] <normalguy> I notice in a lot of tracking devices, theres advertised GSM (500ft limit) as well as gprs as well as gps eg "GSM 900/1800MHz or 850/1900MHz GPRS: Class12, TCP/IP build in GSM Module GPS: SiRF Star b "
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[22:37] <SpeedEvil> gprs=gsm
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah RocketBoy
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:38] <normalguy> Speedevil:theres gps as well (sirf star?)
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> I went to the shop yesterday, taking the two 2K7 resistors
[22:39] <RocketBoy> the SiRF Star II chipsets stop working above 18Km
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> I showed them to the man there and told him that I had asked for 4K7 on Saturday and saw the error when I came home
[22:39] <normalguy> So its using 3 protocols n one device?
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> then he gave me the two 4K7 for free
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:39] <RocketBoy> normalguy:
[22:39] <normalguy> Its a sirf star iii
[22:40] <RocketBoy> so read what I said erlier about that
[22:40] <normalguy> So itll stop working at 18km, then fail to restart right?
[22:41] <RocketBoy> the ones i used restarted
[22:41] <RocketBoy> but only after some time on the ground
[22:41] <RocketBoy> but by that time they were out of GSM range
[22:41] <normalguy> Quoted 38sec cold start
[22:42] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, you want me to fill this broken balloon with water ?
[22:42] <NigeyS> it's the 1 i took the valve out of .. so should be fine for a water test
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[22:42] <RocketBoy> you can give it a try
[22:42] <NigeyS> hey Lunar_Lander
[22:43] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, will do, be an interesting test to see how dry i can stay at least hah!
[22:43] <normalguy> Good luck :)
[22:43] <RocketBoy> normalguy: they seem to get cofused about going over 18Km - and then take ages to work out they need to restart
[22:44] <RocketBoy> they restart in the end - but thats no good if they are out of GSM range
[22:44] <RocketBoy> my experiance is that they might work 50% of the time
[22:44] <normalguy> Ok so the cold start stat is irrelevant i understand :) does this vary between gps units or is it just chance?
[22:44] <normalguy> So i should get two ;)
[22:44] <RocketBoy> i hve seen it on 2 units from different maunufactures
[22:45] <normalguy> You mean failing or restarting correctly?
[22:45] <RocketBoy> personally I woun't bother with GSM tracking - go for the radio system
[22:46] <RocketBoy> they both re-started when they got on the ground
[22:46] <normalguy> Ok, i suppose it is chickening out a bit :) but i must say, it seems more viable for me because i'm not confident with the coding aspect
[22:47] <normalguy> Evem though arduinos are supposedly easy to code hah
[22:47] <RocketBoy> well if you want to take a risk
[22:47] <RocketBoy> they are
[22:48] <normalguy> Is there any way to reduce the risk, short of multiple gps systems? Is there some way of coding the units so that they restart?
[22:49] <RocketBoy> you would need to re-start them while they are in the air and can be contacted - i.e between 1000m and close to the ground
[22:50] <RocketBoy> cos if you re-start them on the ground there is a good chance they will be out of GSM range
[22:52] <RocketBoy> do't forget you are trying to land these payloads in areas of low population density - i.e where mobile coverage is poor
[22:55] <normalguy> True - so for safety arduino + ntx2 + gps + reciever is the only real way
[22:55] <normalguy> Is what i keep coming back to
[22:56] <RocketBoy> thats what I think
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> and +SD+sensor
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> *sensors
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:57] <normalguy> Which sensors do you like to use? I presume temperature, pressure...?
[22:58] <normalguy> I suppose those need to be programmed as well, sadly!
[22:58] <normalguy> For me anyway
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[22:59] <normalguy> Oh, are there any schematics about for connecting a gps unit to an arduino? I honestly cant find anything?
[22:59] <Randomskk> it's not usually very complex
[23:00] <Randomskk> the GPS needs to have power connected to Vcc, ground connected to ground and the GPS TX to the Arduino RX (pin 1?)
[23:00] <Randomskk> it's like, three wires, two of which are power
[23:01] <normalguy> Oh right, thanks :) i've never done it before, and i like to have plans of some kind before i start
[23:01] <Hibby> I've got starter code on github for one with (I think) temp sensors and other stuff
[23:02] <Hibby> got some shitty high level circuit designs too as I've never bothred to design them properly, I just build the circuits
[23:02] <normalguy> Do you have any links for that? Any resources at all would be helpful to me :)
[23:03] <Hibby> lemme pull up the usefulness
[23:03] <Hibby> http://bit.ly/mOUjUY <== presentation on the overview of our HAB scheme at strathclde and some design images
[23:03] <normalguy> https://github.com/Hibby/Strathclyde-HAB-Project
[23:03] <normalguy> This it?
[23:04] <Hibby> and https://github.com/Hibby/Strathclyde-HAB-Project
[23:04] <Hibby> aye
[23:04] <Hibby> well done finding my github before me
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[23:05] <Hibby> fusen used dallas 18b20 sensors
[23:05] <Hibby> iirc
[23:05] <Hibby> each has an individual address
[23:05] <Hibby> and after writing my own stuff for it I got lazy and used the libraries
[23:06] <normalguy> Haha thanks for the info, im reading the presentation now :) and yeah, google-fu!
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[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> this is something I haven't gotten right yet
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> I heard that I2C devices bring their own address
[23:08] <Hibby> aye
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> but how do you get the address out of the device? or is that not needed?
[23:08] <Hibby> it's possible to get them to spew it out
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:09] <Hibby> can't remember the required command
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> I think I found it on the arduino site
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> on the page describing the 1wire library
[23:09] <normalguy> Hibby: "Catastrofuck" -nice
[23:09] <Hibby> normalguy: it didn't go well.
[23:10] <Hibby> we were going to launch 2 at once
[23:10] <normalguy> Then what? :)
[23:10] <NigeyS> hmm any bash scripters about?
[23:11] <Hibby> skypod and group0
[23:11] <Hibby> well, skypod was attached to group0 - the latter being a carrying frame ad the former just being a magic box
[23:12] <Hibby> and someone, on a blustery day, with the local school watching on, threw the balloon and payloads in the air
[23:12] <Hibby> at which point, the balloon took the weight of the system... deformed, came to ground, shedded the extra weight of the payloads and went off to near space
[23:12] <Hibby> with only a gsm tracker left
[23:13] <Hibby> what makes it possibly worse is that the guys doing the carrier didn't (make an attempt to) understand the electronics i'd made for them, so then broke that kit pre-launch stuffing it in
[23:14] <normalguy> D: did the gsm survive?
[23:14] <Hibby> and were suitably downgraded for that. Not that I'm harsh, I just felt that coming to me the week before the first launch and saying "This doesn't work, because I can't program" is a poor excuse after 6 months and 5 peoples working on it
[23:14] <Hibby> yeah, it was an HTC G1. I still use it for experimentation
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[23:15] <normalguy> Thats fair enough tbh if it was just you carrying the whole team (or them at least)
[23:15] <Hibby> I was their assessor :)
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> "downgraded" means punished?
[23:15] <normalguy> So it wasnt a *complete* catastrofuck if you got it ack!
[23:16] <normalguy> *back
[23:16] <normalguy> Oh, i thought you were on the team!
[23:16] <Hibby> no, but the actual purpose of the experiment and another group's work was ruined by their incompetence :)
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:16] <normalguy> True
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I have only limited idea how to code
[23:17] <normalguy> Youd have thought the physical launchimg would be the easiest bit
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> but I hope I can learn it
[23:17] <normalguy> Theres evn a guide on the wiki haha
[23:17] <normalguy> So do i, but i simply cant get my head round it
[23:17] <Hibby> But if you already had an Bachelors honours in (mechanical) engineering and were going for a masters but just said "I can't do this?"
[23:18] <Hibby> After saying to your group I should be able to do this....
[23:18] <normalguy> Which is odd, because im good at languages and maths :/
[23:18] <Hibby> all you need to do is learn C :)
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> and a arduino program always has setup and loop
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[23:19] <normalguy> Becausr c is just *that easy* :p
[23:19] <normalguy> *because C
[23:20] <Hibby> Well, it's well documented and most of Arduino appears built on it
[23:20] <normalguy> Which arduino would you guys recommend? Mega?
[23:20] <Hibby> I always recommend what is now called the Uno, becuase of how I see the platform
[23:20] <Hibby> the uno lets you prototype and program the actual chip, and then use it in your designs
[23:20] <Hibby> as opposed to using the whole arduino board.
[23:21] <Hibby> but then, I'm an electrical engineering researcher, so I'm kind of familiar with the whole circuitry thing
[23:23] <normalguy> For someone who isnt so familiar, is it still a good choice?
[23:24] <Hibby> Uno works as well as the mega
[23:24] <Hibby> it's smaller, has less IO, but the likelihood of using all that IO on either is low
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> I once had the thought on using GPS+Uno+NTX2
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> and Mega+SD+Sensors
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> to have them independent
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[23:25] <Hibby> would work
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:27] <normalguy> Just out of interest, how did you guys plan for your first ballon flight? I mean from the very beginning?
[23:28] Action: fsphil let someone else do it
[23:28] <normalguy> I mean equipment wise, not submitting for a notam etc (thats a given!)
[23:29] <normalguy> Let who else do it haha
[23:29] <fsphil> well they where going to launch anyway :)
[23:29] <fsphil> my second launch was my first solo -- that was a panic :)
[23:30] <Hibby> normalguy: I looked at using arduino and ham radio
[23:30] <fsphil> what equipment do you mean?
[23:30] <normalguy> Yeah :)
[23:33] <normalguy> Oh sorry do i mean!
[23:33] <normalguy> Payloads :)
[23:33] <normalguy> Misread
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[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[00:00] --- Wed Sep 7 2011