highaltitude.log.20110903

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[01:28] <Hibby> evening ukhas
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[01:33] <Lunar_Lander> hi Hibby
[01:33] <Lunar_Lander> and good night
[01:33] <Hibby> haha
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[04:14] <codetiger> what is the best n cheap camera for HAB?
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[04:21] <codetiger> what is the best n cheap camera for HAB?
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[07:17] <eroomde> morning
[07:21] <daveake> morning
[07:22] <SamSilver> morning
[07:23] <SamSilver> am on a java buzz, 3rd cuppa joe down the hatch already
[07:24] <daveake> I'm just sniffing solder fumes
[07:24] <daveake> Adding temp and pressure sensors to buzz1
[07:26] <SamSilver> I think that was a real neat idea to make the lights / led's have functions
[07:26] <daveake> :)
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[07:26] <SamSilver> just the one pressure sensor?
[07:26] <daveake> They're there for fun but I thought I might as well do something useful with them
[07:26] <SamSilver> m1x10: good morning
[07:26] <daveake> Yes, I have an SCP1000
[07:27] <daveake> Wasn't planning on adding a balloon diff sensor, if that's what you're thinking!
[07:27] <SamSilver> yes lol
[07:27] <eroomde> SamSilver: nice on the coffee
[07:27] <eroomde> i am trying to cut down
[07:28] <eroomde> but i still think it's the only civilised way to start a morning
[07:28] <eroomde> daveake: do you have a website for buzz1?
[07:28] <m1x10> Hello all
[07:29] <SamSilver> the xyl makes me a cappucino to start the day every day
[07:29] <daveake> I have a blog daveakerman.com but so far that only covers my previous launch
[07:29] <daveake> I'll get something on there this weekend
[07:29] <eroomde> cool
[07:30] <eroomde> ah ues i remember seeing that now
[07:30] <eroomde> i keep worrying that I'm completely loosing track of hab and who is doing what
[07:31] <daveake> I have an application in for Sat 17th Sept and each weekend day after for 4 weekends
[07:31] <eroomde> re: http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/IMG_3000.jpg
[07:31] <eroomde> i have seen this a bunch of times before
[07:31] <daveake> At the mo I'm intending to do the full-fat cloud2 launch under that, and come to cambs for buzz1
[07:31] <eroomde> the polystyrene outgasses on the way up due to low pressure
[07:32] <eroomde> but because it comes down much faster, and the tape is acting as a barrier, it doesn;t have time to properly re-gas
[07:32] <eroomde> so it starts to contract
[07:32] <daveake> yes, I was surprised at the crinkly effect!
[07:32] <daveake> people asked me if it was the low temp but I thought it must be the pressure
[07:32] <eroomde> at least it doesn;t crush anything!
[07:33] <daveake> and that one did come down quite fast ....
[07:33] <daveake> The box was 2 layers thick (of 25mm sheet)
[07:33] <daveake> The sheet was quite lightweight stuff - certainly less dense than the box I have now
[07:34] <eroomde> yeah
[07:34] <daveake> Oh, and that's 720g of the 1kg balloon still attached!
[07:34] <eroomde> yes that probably doesn't help :)
[07:34] <daveake> Cutdowns in future :)
[07:35] <daveake> I counted 133 turns of balloon around the parachute cords
[07:35] <eroomde> ouch
[07:35] <daveake> 26mph landing
[07:35] <eroomde> yes it'sunfortunate that they fail like that
[07:35] <eroomde> eek!
[07:35] <daveake> 48" 'chute which was a bit over-specced for 1kg payload, but just as well!
[07:35] <eroomde> i'm building something atm that is going to be about a 40mph landing
[07:35] <eroomde> i'm not sure that i can built it to survive
[07:36] <eroomde> just need to get the electronics back
[07:36] <daveake> Actually, it did hit a tree and a bush on the way down, so the impact may have been a bit less. 26mph was the last calc from the altitude log
[07:36] <daveake> The video cam stopped on impact, but both it and the Canon are still working perfectly
[07:39] <eroomde> canon's have been one of the best things to happen to hab
[07:39] <eroomde> well, chdk
[07:39] <eroomde> i want to do more hacking with them in a non-hab way
[07:39] <eroomde> just time lapses or something
[07:42] <daveake> I did a time-lapse video of me driving across the Oresund bridge/tunnel from Sweden to Denmark, with a little IXUS camera and CHDK. Worked out quite well.
[07:43] <eroomde> got a link?
[07:43] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80LdxmwNxa4
[07:44] <daveake> First bit is me getting from a park to the bridge, so you might want to skip that
[07:46] <SamSilver> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904716604576546712416626614.html space ship oops
[07:47] <SamSilver> Amazon Chief's Spaceship Misfires .
[07:47] <daveake> Looks like my smoker BBQ.
[07:47] <eroomde> nice
[07:47] <daveake> Hmmm, there's an ide .... LOL
[07:47] <daveake> idea*
[07:47] <eroomde> the longer exposure in the tunnel creates an excellent affect
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[07:49] <daveake> yes, I like that bit
[07:53] <daveake> bbl ... off to choose a fridge-freezer to replace the old dead one
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[08:37] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:38] <UpuWork> morning
[08:39] <jcoxon> hoping to do a pico launch again next week
[08:40] <UpuWork> depending on weather I'd like to get Ava up
[08:40] <UpuWork> what frequency are you on ?
[08:42] <jcoxon> .075
[08:42] <UpuWork> snap
[08:42] <UpuWork> :)
[08:42] <UpuWork> any particular day in mind ?
[08:42] <jcoxon> well i'm off till friday
[08:43] <jcoxon> for ava you'd have to launch from churchill
[08:43] <UpuWork> you launching from EARS ?
[08:43] <eroomde> hello, someone with cli foo
[08:43] <jcoxon> well this would be a foil launch
[08:43] <jcoxon> i'd be launching from mid-suffolk
[08:43] <UpuWork> Yeah well sure we'll be able to sort something out thats mutally acceptable
[08:44] <UpuWork> either that or I'm launching Ava with some foil sensing air to air rockets
[08:44] <jcoxon> but i can launch from anywhere really
[08:44] <UpuWork> :)
[08:44] <eroomde> can i nest commands within commands to be evaluated first so: let's say i want to take a diff between the output of a program with one arguement and the output of a program with another arguement
[08:44] <jcoxon> well bash could do that for you
[08:44] <eroomde> say, 'diff myprog data1 myprog data2'
[08:44] <eroomde> obviously that doesn't work but can i make it do what i want it to do without splitting it up?
[08:45] <jcoxon> would pipes work
[08:46] <eroomde> you tell me!
[08:46] <eroomde> assume the both go to stout
[08:46] <jcoxon> okay
[08:47] <jcoxon> so is data1 the output from myprog?
[08:47] <eroomde> it's the input
[08:47] <eroomde> and it produces a stout
[08:47] <eroomde> so: 'myprog data1 > results1.txt' would work
[08:48] <jcoxon> diffhttp://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO-4.html
[08:48] <jcoxon> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO-4.html
[08:49] <eroomde> i'll keep faffing
[08:50] <jcoxon> i could do it in a 5 line bash script
[08:50] <jcoxon> either using > file.txt
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[08:50] <jcoxon> or using $variables
[08:51] <eroomde> sure, i can do it if i split it up too :)
[08:51] <eroomde> just wondering if i can side step it
[08:51] <eroomde> not to worry, was only a ponder
[08:52] <eroomde> if only if was like lisp
[08:52] <eroomde> (diff (myprog data1) (myprog data2))
[08:52] <eroomde> easy as
[08:53] <SpeedEvil> what's the desired output?
[08:53] <jcoxon> oh wait
[08:53] <jcoxon> that might work
[08:53] <SpeedEvil> the diffs concatenated?
[08:53] <jcoxon> diff <(myprog data1) <(myprog data2)
[08:53] <jcoxon> try that
[08:54] <eroomde> nope
[08:54] <jcoxon> :-(
[08:55] <eroomde> {exec man cc}
[08:55] <eroomde> whoops wrong
[08:55] Action: SpeedEvil doesn't understand what jcoxon wants.
[08:56] <jcoxon> eroomde, it works for me with simple commands
[08:57] <jcoxon> diff <(cat test.data) <(cat test.data1)
[08:57] <jcoxon> for example
[08:58] <eroomde> ah
[08:58] <eroomde> perfect
[08:58] <eroomde> ta
[08:58] <eroomde> dunno why it failed for me the first time
[08:58] <eroomde> thanks
[09:05] <jcoxon> np
[09:06] <jcoxon> quite a useful thing to know
[09:06] <jcoxon> hows tricks eroomde
[09:07] <eroomde> not bad thanks
[09:07] <eroomde> in france atm
[09:07] <eroomde> enjoying new job
[09:07] <jcoxon> oh right
[09:08] <eroomde> first morning of not glorious sunshine so i'm nerding
[09:08] <jcoxon> sunny here for once
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[09:12] <mattltm_mob> anyone at the Brighton maker faire?
[09:13] <eroomde> didn't know it was on
[09:14] <eroomde> is that what used to be brighton model world?
[09:28] <mattltm_mob> nope its a new event.
[09:29] <mattltm_mob> its not bad so far. I've scored a laser cut coaster! yay!
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[09:40] <eroomde> mattltm_mob: cool
[09:40] <eroomde> if i was in sussex (family home) i'd come down
[09:40] <eroomde> sadly not around atm
[09:40] <eroomde> is there a hackspace in brighton?
[09:40] <jcoxon> back
[09:41] <mattltm_mob> yes, build Brighton.
[09:42] <mattltm_mob> some nice toys here.
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[09:47] <fsphil-laptop> oops, topic should be updated
[09:47] <mattltm_mob> the balance board is fun.
[09:47] <jcoxon> i'll do that
[09:49] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[09:49] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jcoxon!jcoxon@87.115.105.144: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[09:49] <jcoxon> grrr looking at the winds for the next week - lots of westerly wind
[09:50] <jcoxon> difficult to track a floating balloon
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[09:58] <fsphil-laptop> couldn't be worse than it is now
[10:02] <fsphil-laptop> bah, next saturday : http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=2a428c28eb5961c189e0d5a1eb3de787a6907485
[10:02] <fsphil-laptop> sucks if it's accurate
[10:11] <fsphil-laptop> hehe, looks familiar: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=58c8cbead8a10d51e0fa711694c467f4ad6508a2
[10:11] <jcoxon> its like a magent to trees
[10:11] <jcoxon> magnet*
[10:13] <fsphil-laptop> be good conditions to launch a foil balloon
[10:14] <fsphil-laptop> would stay within range of a station for quite a while
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[10:15] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=40749b847c5f5c232b880279d59c8df2eaf493eb
[10:17] <fsphil-laptop> def. not ideal
[10:17] <fsphil-laptop> dutch-mill would be the only hope there
[10:17] <jcoxon> its not hte end of the world
[10:17] <jcoxon> i'm recruiting a new listener in lowestoft
[10:17] <jcoxon> well i just emailed them
[10:18] <fsphil-laptop> just had an idea for a light-weight battery holder -- that adhesive copper tape
[10:18] <fsphil-laptop> wonder if it stays stuck at -40c
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> Solder generally works well.
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> IME
[10:19] <fsphil-laptop> soldering a battery is tricky
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> Do it right, and you can touch the cell immediately afterwards. YMMV of course - but I've soldered a couple of hundred NiCd cells without issue
[10:19] <fsphil-laptop> I've failed more than once in that endeavour :)
[10:20] <fsphil-laptop> brb, doggie walk before it rains
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> Total cleanliness is ideal - wash hands, and then abrade surface of contact before tapping with a hot soldering iron with a really fresh blobk of solder.
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> Teensy smear of flux
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> Contact should be under half a second.
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> Wave.
[10:24] <fsphil-laptop> true, last time I tried was before I discovered flux
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> Ideally, you can remove the soldering iron, and immediately touch the blob of solder. It cools that fast
[10:29] <jcoxon> fsphil-laptop, i better grab dutch-mill when i see him!
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[13:44] <Laurenceb_> oops
[13:44] <Laurenceb_> http://news.discovery.com/space/bad-day-for-jeff-bezos-rocket-company-110902.html
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> :/
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> oh you were asking about supercritical brayton cycle efficiency
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> i think part of the efficiency advantage with furnaces might be the fact theres no phase change
[13:48] <Laurenceb_> so i think that makes heat exchange with the exhaust gasses more efficient
[13:49] <Laurenceb_> just contraflow heat exchange works well
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[13:50] <Laurenceb_> bbl
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> I suppose on refelction boosting low-side temp is going to mostly kill the efficiency
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> It's always going to be more efficient to get hte temp as low as you can reasonably do.
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[15:37] <NigeyS> argh
[15:37] Action: NigeyS kicks php
[15:37] <NigeyS> hello jcoxon :)
[15:37] <jcoxon> hello
[15:38] <NigeyS> anyone got any ideas on this .. http://pastebin.com/1Uk8p7BA ?
[15:41] <Randomskk> that looks :(
[15:42] <Randomskk> do you really have to build your own php?
[15:43] <NigeyS> no, its just a module build, but oddly it just worked fine even without the aclocal running without error..how odd :|
[15:43] <NigeyS> with*
[15:43] <Randomskk> do you really have to build your own php modules? >_>
[15:43] <NigeyS> yups
[15:43] <NigeyS> not all, but quite a few of them
[15:43] <Randomskk> <3 debian
[15:43] <Randomskk> sudo apt-get install php5-mcrypt
[15:43] <NigeyS> json, mcrypt, mhash, filter, intl, .. i could go on ...
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[15:44] <NigeyS> debian mmm! these idiots boughts rhel 5 systems, no fun
[15:45] <Randomskk> that is a lot of not fun
[15:45] <Randomskk> put debian on them :P
[15:45] <Randomskk> silly rhel
[15:45] <Randomskk> annoys me a bit
[15:45] <Randomskk> are you sure you can't get them built for you?
[15:45] <NigeyS> positive, redhat strip alot of base modules from the main php module rpm
[15:46] <Randomskk> yea but can't you ge them back? what about that extra repository thing for rhel?
[15:46] <NigeyS> and company i'm setting this up for use a custom cms that uses all these silly modules, so its a no option thing, have to do from src :/
[15:46] <Randomskk> I can't remember its name atm but it has a ton of stuff built for you
[15:46] <NigeyS> not allowed, im only to use official redhat sources
[15:46] <Randomskk> so sucky
[15:46] <NigeyS> theyre quite strict on what can and cant go on their servers
[15:47] <Randomskk> yet you can build random shit from source
[15:47] <Randomskk> they appear to be doing this all wrong
[15:47] <NigeyS> haha trust me, theyre doing alot more than this that's "questionable" but i cant go into detail :/
[15:47] <Randomskk> well I guess that's what they pay you for
[15:48] <NigeyS> yeah, to yell at me when it goes tits up after warning them its "WRONG" :(
[15:48] <NigeyS> nice servers mind
[15:48] <Randomskk> hah
[15:49] <NigeyS> r710's ?
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[17:28] <m1x10> Hi all
[17:37] <fsphil> howdy m1x10
[17:37] <mattltm> Hi m1x10
[17:37] <m1x10> howdy
[17:38] <m1x10> haido
[17:38] <m1x10> japanese names
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[20:02] <nickolai> hello all
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> hihi
[20:04] <nickolai> how are you fsphil?
[20:05] <fsphil-laptop> not too bad nickolai, you?
[20:06] <nickolai> not too well, I'm trying to launch on monday (holiday here in the US, dunno about across the pond) and I don't have a yagi
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[20:06] <nickolai> i've been trying to follow this guide: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amsat.org%2Famsat-new%2Finformation%2Ffaqs%2Fcrow%2FJulAug06AmsatJournal.pdf&ei=x4hiTv-aN-XdiAKhnISrCg&usg=AFQjCNECFW3bIiqjq4eEQA66zhBdVajxhw&sig2=Dd6gFgypjISa8gwv5njbJw but it's kind of obtuse
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> It's a pity you don't get significant range extension (assuming you got a good horizon) with a balloon on a 1km string to receive.
[20:08] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: also a tethered balloon on a 1km string would be literally the worst idea
[20:08] <fsphil-laptop> oooh that looks fun
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - unless it's absolutely 100% still.
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> Or it's a leeeetle powered blimp
[20:09] <nickolai> a 1km string? i would hate to launch that
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> WTF.
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> Fireworks?
[20:13] Action: SpeedEvil idly wonders how light a 1kW 1km line ca be.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you'd want Al.
[20:14] <jcoxon> nickolai, what transmitter do you have on your payload?
[20:15] <nickolai> jcoxon: ntx2
[20:15] <jcoxon> and where are you based?
[20:16] <jcoxon> in the US that is
[20:16] <nickolai> Purdue (lafayette, IN)
[20:17] <jcoxon> nickolai, you can track really well with just a whip
[20:17] <nickolai> even to 30km?
[20:18] <jcoxon> but also i'd email the GPSL list and announce you are launching and if people are free in the area could they help out
[20:18] <fsphil-laptop> I've had good success with just a small whip
[20:18] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:18] <jcoxon> i've got a balloon from 100km with a whip
[20:18] <fsphil-laptop> yagi would be useful for direction finding or tracking it down after it lands
[20:19] <jcoxon> nickolai, also get in contact with Dan_K2VOL as he is in louisville
[20:19] <jcoxon> and they have launched from indianapolis
[20:19] <nickolai> well, it's broadcasting gps so if we can hear it with anything we can find it
[20:19] <Randomskk> if it has gps lock
[20:19] <Randomskk> and everything worked
[20:19] <Randomskk> and you can hear it well enough to decode
[20:20] <nickolai> all true....
[20:20] <Randomskk> all of which are assumptions which have failed in the past :P
[20:20] <jcoxon> nickolai, you using dl-fldigi and spacenear.us?
[20:20] <nickolai> more truth!
[20:20] <jcoxon> Randomskk, be nice!
[20:20] <nickolai> dl-fldigi, haven't looked at spacenear tho
[20:20] <Randomskk> what kind of messages are you transmitting?
[20:20] <nickolai> ummm, just my own custom message
[20:21] <jcoxon> fair enough
[20:21] <jcoxon> rtty?
[20:21] <nickolai> it looks like this: $PRHAL, time, lat, lon, etc*checksum
[20:21] <nickolai> yup
[20:21] <jcoxon> hehe looks very similar to the ukhas standard
[20:22] <nickolai> seems like a convenient way to send data
[20:22] <jcoxon> :-D
[20:22] <jcoxon> but yeah, email GPSL mailing list
[20:22] <fsphil-laptop> tis that
[20:22] <Randomskk> if it's similar enough we could probably make the dl system accept it and then it'd be plotted on the spacenear.us map
[20:22] <nickolai> so do you think i could use a 1/4wave ground plane antenna similar to the one that i built for the transmitter as a receiving antenna?
[20:23] <Randomskk> but if it's mostly just you chasing, and you won't have internet while driving
[20:23] <Randomskk> thoen probably not much point
[20:23] <Randomskk> yea, sure
[20:23] <jcoxon> nickolai, yeah
[20:23] <jcoxon> nickolai, you could try a moxon
[20:23] <nickolai> ok, screw this yagi i'll do that then
[20:23] <nickolai> moxon?
[20:23] <jcoxon> http://www.moxonantennaproject.com/sm5jab/sm5jab_2.htm
[20:23] <jcoxon> very simple antenna
[20:23] <jcoxon> its basically a mini yagi
[20:23] <jcoxon> really simple to make
[20:23] <jcoxon> and suprisingly good
[20:24] <nickolai> hm, neat
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-14772957
[20:24] <jcoxon> try now
[20:24] <jcoxon> oops
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Huuuuuuuuuuuuuge kite.
[20:24] <jcoxon> try that*
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> (fail)
[20:24] <nickolai> i'm leaning towards 1/4 wave ground plane just because i've already built one so that makes things easier
[20:26] <nickolai> how might i integrate with spacenear? it sounds like it could simplify tracking a lot
[20:26] <Randomskk> so basically your messages need to look a bit like
[20:26] <Randomskk> $$callsign,some,data,here,*checksum
[20:26] <nickolai> two $?
[20:26] <jcoxon> yeah 2
[20:27] <Randomskk> if they look just like that, ideal, if they look a bit different we can tweak things too
[20:27] <Randomskk> so if you're only transmitting one $ I think dl-fldigi will never even try to upload
[20:27] <Randomskk> so there's not actually anything I could do server-side
[20:27] <nickolai> ok, they basically look like that already
[20:27] <Randomskk> it depends how easy it is to change your code
[20:27] <Randomskk> but like
[20:27] <jcoxon> from dl-fldigi point of view you just need the $$callsign
[20:27] <jcoxon> and a \n at the ned
[20:27] <Randomskk> jcoxon: will it upload invalid checksums?
[20:28] <Randomskk> nickolai: what checksum are you using?
[20:28] <fsphil-laptop> it won't
[20:28] <nickolai> same one as gps
[20:28] <nickolai> XOR
[20:28] <Randomskk> nickolai: XOR?
[20:28] <Randomskk> okay, great
[20:28] <nickolai> yup
[20:28] <Randomskk> in which case have a go at http://habhub.org/genpayload
[20:28] <jcoxon> literally all he needs to do is add the $$ at the beginning
[20:28] <Randomskk> apologies in advance if you're not using a very recent chrome or firefox
[20:28] <jcoxon> and it'll work
[20:29] <nickolai> which buttons do i have to press in fl-digi?
[20:29] <nickolai> to get it to talk to spacenear?
[20:29] <jcoxon> first fill in that form
[20:30] <jcoxon> http://habhub.org/genpayload
[20:30] <Randomskk> it's case sensitive btw
[20:30] <Randomskk> please use the same case that your payload transmits
[20:30] <Randomskk> (and that is indeed on our list of things to think about and/or fix)
[20:30] <jcoxon> then follow this
[20:30] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide#dl-fldigi_32029-r115_new_version
[20:30] <jcoxon> nickolai, we can help you
[20:31] <nickolai> thanks guys this is a big help
[20:31] <jcoxon> nickolai, we built all this for this exact reason :-)
[20:31] <jcoxon> glad to see it being used
[20:33] <nickolai> ok gimme some time to look through this.
[20:33] <Randomskk> also please whine at me if genpayload is confusing/broken/annoying
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[20:34] <jcoxon> hey Dutch-Mill
[20:34] <Dutch-Mill> Hi
[20:35] <jcoxon> you free on monday? if i launch a balloon towards the netherlands?
[20:36] <nickolai> back to the antenna thing though, i'm a bit surprised i can just use a 1/4 wave GP for listening to the payload. Have I just been wrongfully indoctrinated on the merits of yagi? (which is entirely possible since i know very little about radio)
[20:36] <jcoxon> nickolai, no the yagi is quite a bit better
[20:37] <jcoxon> but the altitude of the balloon really helps with LOS which means that other antennas will be okay
[20:37] <nickolai> so how exactly is the yagi better?
[20:38] <Dutch-Mill> No ;( working early and after that to the hospital with my wife....but a hip hop over the North Sea might be a nice project for the future?
[20:38] <jcoxon> Dutch-Mill, :-(
[20:38] <jcoxon> oh well
[20:39] <jcoxon> will watch the weather anyway - might be postponing till later in the week
[20:39] <jcoxon> will just have to see
[20:39] <jcoxon> Dutch-Mill, thanks though!
[20:39] <Dutch-Mill> The can be done is it.?
[20:40] <jcoxon> across the north sea? it can be done
[20:40] <jcoxon> done it before!
[20:41] <Dutch-Mill> Y I know it landed near Gorinchem
[20:46] <jcoxon> nickolai, well its directional and is more sensitive
[20:46] <jcoxon> so with a yagi you could receive the balloon 400km away
[20:47] <jcoxon> with a 1/4wave its more like 100 - 150km
[20:47] <nickolai> and a moxon? any guess on range for that one?
[20:47] <Dutch-Mill> @jcoxon I'm at home Wednesday so if you need some help let me know
[20:47] <jcoxon> 250km
[20:47] <jcoxon> Dutch-Mill, cool - i'll keep that in mind
[20:48] <nickolai> I think I'll try the moxon, it looks simple and i like that it's directional
[20:48] <fsphil> doubles as a coat hanger too
[20:48] <nickolai> i'll just have to put some thought into how to clamp them correctly, but with all the material i bought for that yagi i'm sure i can figure something out :)
[20:48] <nickolai> haha
[20:48] <jcoxon> nickolai, before i bought a yagi i used a moxon all the time
[20:48] <nickolai> for ballooning that is?
[20:48] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:49] <Dutch-Mill> Oke SeeY 73
[20:49] <jcoxon> nickolai, if you do end up using the spacenear.us system remember that the advantage is the number of people tracking
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[20:49] <jcoxon> so you need to get a few more
[20:49] <jcoxon> as it'll combine all teh data together for you
[20:49] <nickolai> a few more people tracking?
[20:50] <jcoxon> yeah so if another people is listening and uploading data it makes it a lot easier
[20:50] <jcoxon> another person*
[20:50] <nickolai> i don't think i'll be able to do that, i had a hard enough time finding just one person with a 434MHz receiver
[20:50] <jcoxon> this is why i'm suggesting emailing hte GPSL mailing list
[20:50] <nickolai> i want to redo the radio system after this flight, the receiver is waaay too expensive
[20:50] <jcoxon> as thats a big balloon list
[20:51] <jcoxon> and so there'll be someone local on it who might be able to help out
[20:51] <nickolai> i can't seem to find this gpsl online, do you have a link?
[20:52] <jcoxon> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsl/
[20:54] <nickolai> ok, i'll have to look at this stuff a bit more closely. what sort of things need to happen on your end to get spacenear to work, or is it all automatic? I'm wondering if i can test the functionality sometime tonight
[20:55] <jcoxon> nickolai, once you fill in that online form we linked to the rest is pretty much automatic
[20:55] <Randomskk> that website - http://habhub.org/genpayload - makes a config file
[20:55] <Randomskk> give that to someone (use like, pastebin.com) and we put it into the system
[20:55] <Randomskk> and then it should be automatic, but you can (and should) test that it's working easily
[20:55] <nickolai> ok great
[20:55] <Randomskk> then poke me or maybe DanielRichman if it's not working and I'll see what I can do
[20:57] <nickolai> kk
[20:57] <nickolai> i know one thing for sure, launching from IN will be a hell of a lot easier that launching from NJ
[21:03] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:03] <jcoxon> sounds like it'll be a lot of fun
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[21:55] Action: jcoxon is happy with his linux laptop, slackware 13.37 + matchbox GUI
[21:58] <Randomskk> that is the best version of slackware
[22:06] <nickolai> so for that moxon antenna, what size should the top gap be? or does that not matter?
[22:06] <jcoxon> that said Randomskk struggling to install fldigi
[22:07] <Randomskk> jcoxon: heh
[22:07] <Randomskk> downside to using software that's like, older than I am?
[22:07] <Randomskk> :P
[22:07] <jcoxon> nickolai, thats the feed point
[22:07] <Randomskk> it installs great on ubuntu, hah
[22:07] <jcoxon> so its a small gap
[22:07] <jcoxon> Randomskk, oh i think it might be the latest version of fltk thats the issue
[22:08] <jcoxon> nickolai, its where you attach the cable to
[22:08] <jcoxon> nickolai, http://www2.mmae.ucf.edu/wiki/Moxon_antenna
[22:08] <nickolai> yea i figured from that picture. That also confused me a bit, since i'm attaching the cable to the part i want to point at my transmitter?
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[22:09] <Randomskk> jcoxon: the issue with new fltk is why I can't make it build on os x lion
[22:09] <jcoxon> nickolai, yeah thats okay
[22:09] <jcoxon> Randomskk, whats your issue? is it hte same as mine?
[22:09] <Randomskk> dunno, what's your issue?
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[22:10] <jcoxon> Randomskk, http://pastebin.com/qRGEvHer
[22:10] <Randomskk> yea iirc that's the same or very similar
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[22:16] <jcoxon> Randomskk, have you tried going back to fltk 1.1?
[22:16] <Randomskk> no
[22:16] <Randomskk> not sure how to easily do that on homebrew for mac
[22:17] <Randomskk> also I was running into other issues by then
[22:17] <Randomskk> like how my gcc install on os x lacked opengl headers so fltk itself couldn't rebuild
[22:17] <NigeyS> well that was hugely annoying, mysql_secure_installation really doesnt like special characters in the root pass :(
[22:18] <Randomskk> haha sounds like you're having a ton of fun
[22:18] <nickolai> so how big you recon that gap should be? 7, 8 mm?
[22:18] <NigeyS> oh yes, an hour to get the bugger uninstalled properly
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[22:18] <Randomskk> NigeyS: this is why virtualisation, cloud servers, PaaS for DBs etc are all so much fun
[22:19] <NigeyS> yup, if only theyd come to me BEFORE purchasing the hardware *sigh*
[22:19] <Randomskk> indeed
[22:19] <NigeyS> on the plus side, they ordered my MBP today :D
[22:19] <Randomskk> ooh nice
[22:19] <Randomskk> pretty good plus side :P
[22:19] <NigeyS> yush :D
[22:20] <NigeyS> right time to re install mysql .. for the 3rd time .. woooo \o/
[22:20] <Randomskk> can't you yum install it
[22:20] <Randomskk> or whatever crap rhel does
[22:20] <Randomskk> surely rhel has binary distribution for mysql
[22:20] <Randomskk> building that from source too is just silly
[22:20] <Randomskk> so much pain to upgrade all the time too
[22:20] <NigeyS> yup, thats why it took so long to remove it all just now, totally stupid directories using yum & rhel
[22:20] <Randomskk> for like, no benefit
[22:21] <Randomskk> building it yourself from source or only using official rhel repos isn't going to stop whoever's writing the app leaving a massive sql injection hole and ruining your day anyway
[22:21] <NigeyS> it like leaves the /var/lib folder behind, the hidden my.cnf and pid files, and the subsys files, meh
[22:21] <Randomskk> sounds awful
[22:21] <NigeyS> so when i say i hate RHEL.. i REALLY hate RHEL lol
[22:21] <Randomskk> yea I'm not a fan
[22:21] <Randomskk> or centos for that matter
[22:22] <Randomskk> but then I find I end up liking one thing
[22:22] <fsphil> works well for me, though I'm not doing anything fancy
[22:22] <Randomskk> vim, python, debian/ubuntu
[22:22] <NigeyS> give me debian any day over this crap
[22:22] <Randomskk> really by the latter I mean apt, I guess
[22:22] <NigeyS> apt is a godsend
[22:22] <NigeyS> it just works
[22:22] <Randomskk> I will acknowledge that some people prefer alternatives but I really don't think they're better, I guess
[22:22] <NigeyS> yum = depsolving .. meh
[22:22] <Randomskk> still, whatever, that's why there's a load of distros
[22:22] <Randomskk> yum is so rubbish
[22:23] <Randomskk> it's slow, it's annoying, it's wordy, its repositories tend to be crap even with extras, it was stagnant before I was even born
[22:23] <fsphil> yum install blah ... job done :)
[22:23] <NigeyS> haha so true
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[22:23] <NigeyS> fsphil, for the most part it works, but meh its very limited as Randomskk says
[22:23] <Randomskk> it does nothing apt doesn't do
[22:23] <Randomskk> but apt is a whole lot better in a lot of ways that count
[22:23] <fsphil> you install stuff with it.. what more do you want? :)
[22:24] <Randomskk> like not being crap
[22:24] <NigeyS> lol
[22:24] <Randomskk> or more seriously things like aptitude, or PPAs for ubuntu, or the debian software repository, or that it's faster, or its dependency resolution
[22:24] <fsphil> I think it's a case of you like what you're used too -- I find apt to be cruel and unfriendly
[22:24] <fsphil> aptitude is nice though
[22:25] <Randomskk> yea it's a big part of just what you like
[22:25] <Randomskk> I've always been a debian/ubuntu person I guess
[22:25] Action: jcoxon is currently compiling from source...
[22:25] <Randomskk> but I 've been forced to use yum before now :P
[22:25] <fsphil> I tried ubuntu once.. never again :)
[22:25] <Randomskk> hehe
[22:25] <NigeyS> jcoxon, oh ive done many lamp setups from src in my time .. no ta! lol
[22:26] <Randomskk> python is a language where the more I see other languages, the more I like python
[22:26] <fsphil> gentoo ftw :)
[22:26] <Randomskk> oh yea fsphil so we compiled habitat with -O3 like you suggested and now it's like ten times faster, so we were even able to take out all that multithreading crap we'd had to write
[22:26] <fsphil> lol
[22:26] <Randomskk> in fact it's so good we can now up the baud rate to 2400 on balloons
[22:26] <Randomskk> amazing really
[22:27] <Randomskk> can't believe everyone else is just using binary packages when it makes so much difference
[22:27] <fsphil> it can track flights now before they even launch
[22:27] <Randomskk> oh that's mostly down to python, not optimisation
[22:27] <Randomskk> fropm __future__ import flights, etc
[22:27] <Randomskk> from*, even
[22:27] <fsphil> import flux_capacitor
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[22:28] <NigeyS> All done! If you've completed all of the above steps, your MySQL
[22:28] <NigeyS> installation should now be secure.
[22:28] <NigeyS> LOOOOOL
[22:29] <NigeyS> its redhat it'll never be secure!
[22:29] <Randomskk> :(
[22:29] <Randomskk> oh mysql
[22:30] <Randomskk> can't they use something sexy like mongodb or couchdb or orientdb or redis or memcache or couchbase or simpledb or neo4j or something?
[22:30] <Randomskk> tbh postgres is better
[22:30] <NigeyS> funnily enough they are experimenting with couchdb
[22:30] <Randomskk> huh
[22:30] <Randomskk> I guess I'm not being very fair to them
[22:30] <NigeyS> heh
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[22:44] <NigeyS> mount -o remount rw,noexec,nosuid /tmp
[22:44] <NigeyS> meh nope not here
[22:44] <Randomskk> these are things you shouldn't have to do to set up a server
[22:45] <NigeyS> these are things rackspace should be doing! lol
[22:45] <Hibby> Hmm
[22:45] <NigeyS> i have more important things to set up
[22:45] <Hibby> hrmm....
[22:45] <NigeyS> hey hibster
[22:45] <Hibby> hrmmmmmmmm...
[22:45] <Randomskk> Hibby: home yet?
[22:45] <jcoxon> Randomskk, bingo
[22:45] <Randomskk> jcoxon: oh?
[22:45] <Randomskk> reverted to old fltk?
[22:45] <jcoxon> fltk 1.10, enable threads in fltk and the dl-fldigi compiled
[22:45] <Hibby> Randomskk: leave in 22 hours
[22:46] <Randomskk> Hibby: know where you're going yet?
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[22:46] <Randomskk> jcoxon: huh, okay. I might see if I can do it on lion sometime
[22:46] <Hibby> Randomskk: yeah, they sent my my itinerary about 3 hours ago
[22:46] <Randomskk> hopefully fldigi upstream will upgrade soon
[22:46] <Randomskk> Hibby: oh nice
[22:46] <Hibby> in Scotland we have a word for this...
[22:46] <Randomskk> I like how they're really on the ball
[22:46] <Hibby> "fuck sake"
[22:46] <Randomskk> and responsive
[22:46] <Hibby> yeah
[22:46] <Hibby> but i've been thinking
[22:46] <Hibby> about using a laser printer to create a template for a circuit board based fractal antenna.
[22:47] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: rackspace?
[22:47] <Randomskk> fractal antennas are like, supermagic
[22:47] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: just open a ticket and tell them to do it then
[22:47] <Randomskk> "install mysql for me pls"
[22:48] <Hibby> Indeed. If we had one that was replacable and easily made, it might make introducing RF-alien students at our uni to ballooning easier
[22:48] <DanielRichman> "make me a sandwich while you're at it"
[22:48] <NigeyS> DanielRichman, haha i just waited 4 hours for them to come back and tell me woops we havent configured your load balancer, not amused! :@
[22:48] <Randomskk> huh, rs are usually good
[22:48] <Hibby> and I'm most of the way through designing a laser cutter
[22:48] <DanielRichman> aww they're always really nice to me
[22:48] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: you have an rs server?
[22:48] <NigeyS> well, the original config was sent to them on the 18th August
[22:48] <Randomskk> Hibby: ooh. I want a laser cutter :P
[22:48] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: not mine but I root
[22:48] <Hibby> http://bit.ly/mOUjUY <== my slides from my presentation to LVL1 last week
[22:49] <Hibby> Randomskk: I'm designing one... with a laser diode, an old scanner and some other shit.
[22:49] <Randomskk> cool presentation
[22:50] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: ah, okay, cool
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[22:51] <Hibby> 5 points for the person who spots the massive error in the flight computer software design
[22:52] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: it would be a linode and it would be a billion times cheaper but the people who own it want someone they can phone/that monitors 24/7 and will fix it.
[22:52] <Randomskk> yea, I'd totally go with rs if that was a requirement
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[23:21] <NigeyS> yey LB is working nicely, i didnt b0rk apache :D
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[23:23] <Hibby> oh man, I was in hot topic today
[23:23] <Hibby> and totally missed this... I would have bought it... straight up
[23:23] <Hibby> http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/PopCulture/EverythingElse/ComicsAnimeCartoons/My-Little-Pony-20-Percent-TShirt-120711.jsp
[23:23] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: Foil SP balloon launch Monday 11:00BST, aiming for float ~6km, trackers requested especially in the Netherlands and Suffolk coast #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/110130879564742657]
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[23:40] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] PicoAtlas V launch (Mon 5/9/11 11:00BST)"
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[23:58] <NigeyS> who's awake ?
[23:59] <Hibby> me
[23:59] <NigeyS> yey can you do me a favour ?
[23:59] <Hibby> about to go out and take at a peek at the sunset
[23:59] <Hibby> but yes
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[23:59] <NigeyS> http://78.136.36.244/ just hit that and refresh a few times, see if you get bounced between web01 and web02 ?
[23:59] <Hibby> load balancing?
[23:59] <NigeyS> yups
[00:00] --- Sun Sep 4 2011