highaltitude.log.20110902

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[00:07] <nickolai> evening gents
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[01:09] <nickolai> does anyone have good advice on proper camera settings for ballooning? things like iso, shutter speed, etc?
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[02:03] <SpeedEvil> nik`
[02:04] <SpeedEvil> nik
[02:04] <SpeedEvil> nickolai: It's daylight
[02:04] <SpeedEvil> A reasonably high ISO is a good plan. You want the shutter speed as low as possible to avoid motion blur
[02:07] <nickolai> hm, i suppose i could take some pictures during the day while playing with the settings, see what gives me good picture without too much graininess
[02:08] <SpeedEvil> It depends - most flights aren't that bad, but sometimes you get a rev a second or so.
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[07:10] <fsphil> Ahhh the weekend approaches
[07:16] <SamSilver> Spring has sprung here in the southern hemi
[07:22] <fsphil> autumn is just showing itself up here
[07:23] <fsphil> very dark this-morning, first time most people had their car lights on
[07:24] <SamSilver> whats flying this weekend?
[07:25] <SamSilver> or should I say floating
[07:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Talk on HAB for bioprospecting"
[07:28] <eroomde> it's lovely and bright here
[07:28] <eroomde> there's an annoying paradox
[07:28] <eroomde> i go to hot countries and think 'this is the way forward, it must be much better to live and work here'
[07:28] <eroomde> and yet, the hotter a country is, the more usless its people seem to be
[07:28] <eroomde> eg italy vs germany
[07:29] <eroomde> it seems to correlate v well
[07:29] <fsphil> Florida?
[07:29] <fsphil> oh wait
[07:29] <SamSilver> eroomde: that is sooooo true
[07:29] <eroomde> so perhaps to do Good Things I should be in a cold room with hard wodden furniture and a quill
[07:30] <eroomde> and the oldest crapiest pc that could possibly run python 2.7.1
[07:30] <fsphil> I've an old Toughbook that wont die, 486 - enough to run debian ;)
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[07:31] <eroomde> i would quite like no net connection
[07:31] <eroomde> it's sort of ddestroyed my ability to concentrate
[07:31] <fsphil> nah - better to have a limited net connection
[07:31] <eroomde> limited to python docs
[07:32] <fsphil> as someone who is very easily distracted, yea I agree though
[07:32] <fsphil> I've started coding on my laptop more now, because it isn't powerful enough to play games
[07:32] <eroomde> i think all the stuff that made me a capable nerd was basically all formed at school (where we had a 'computer room' and no wifi) and where i got on with nerdy things distraction-free
[07:33] <eroomde> i could spend an entire afternoon making something in CAD and listen to the same sum41 cd in a loop without ever pausing or breathing
[07:33] <fsphil> you had me up to sum41
[07:33] <eroomde> fsphil: i with i could use my laptop. it gives me a really bad back and painful wrists
[07:33] <eroomde> i'm on it now, that said
[07:33] <eroomde> but it general i hate it
[07:33] <fsphil> (from the guy who has a Rednex CD)
[07:34] <eroomde> fsphil: i was 14. it was the right age for sum41 :)
[07:34] <eroomde> 10 years ago!
[07:34] <eroomde> wow
[07:34] <eroomde> i've been nerding for a decade
[07:34] <fsphil> lol
[07:35] <fsphil> I got introduced to the BBC Micro in first year of scool
[07:35] <fsphil> school
[07:35] <fsphil> hehe
[07:36] <eroomde> we had an RM running windows 3.1
[07:37] <eroomde> that was the first computer I used at school
[07:37] <eroomde> actually i remember printing something on a bbc
[07:37] <eroomde> it used a magical incantation which i had no idea about at the time
[07:38] <eroomde> '*mdump'
[07:39] <UpuWork> how old are you fsphil ?
[07:39] <UpuWork> because my crowning glory at school was writing a basic program to brute force the sysman password on the BBC Econet network
[07:41] <eroomde> totally beyond me
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[07:41] <eroomde> i think I just missed the 'hacky' generation of computers
[07:41] <eroomde> z80-bbcmicro era
[07:42] <UpuWork> Well I started on BBC B's and broke lots of C-64's
[07:42] <eroomde> i caught the beginning of the black-box era
[07:42] <eroomde> and learnt to use a proto microsoft word
[07:42] <eroomde> i am really keen on raspberry pi as a result
[07:42] <UpuWork> but I didn't have another computer after that until my final year at Uni
[07:42] <eroomde> i think we should fly the shit out of them on habs
[07:42] <eroomde> they're going to be like grown-up arduinos
[07:43] <UpuWork> raspberry pi ?
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[07:43] <eroomde> i wish real life pets could do that
[07:43] <UpuWork> oh nice
[07:44] <UpuWork> interesting bit of kit
[07:44] <eroomde> $25 linux pc
[07:45] <eroomde> and designed to be hackable
[07:45] <UpuWork> ARM based
[07:46] <UpuWork> can see those being popular
[07:46] <eroomde> i'd quite like something on a hab that allows high megabits data storage
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[07:46] <fsphil> UpuWork, 31 :)
[07:47] <fsphil> which according to m1x10 is ancient ;)
[07:47] <UpuWork> you seem a bit young for BBC's fsphil
[07:47] <fsphil> I took to them early
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[07:47] <UpuWork> ancient ? wow makes me positively Pre-Cambrian
[07:47] <fsphil> didn't manage to break any of them.. guess they where very tough or I wasn't trying hard enough
[07:47] <eroomde> how old are you Upu?
[07:48] <UpuWork> 38 (ish)
[07:48] <UpuWork> ish as I'm 39 next month
[07:49] <eroomde> $35 gets you an extra 128mb ram and a network connection
[07:49] <eroomde> now you're really talking
[07:49] <UpuWork> and SD for storage ?
[07:49] <eroomde> not sure
[07:50] <fsphil> UpuWork, (just reading the scrollback) - me and a friend wrote a program that looked exactly like the old Windows login form :)
[07:50] <UpuWork> still looks impressive
[07:50] <UpuWork> haha yes we did that on the RM Nimbus's too
[07:50] <UpuWork> steal peoples passwords
[07:50] <UpuWork> we were a nightmare
[07:50] <fsphil> we got the admin password within a day
[07:51] <fsphil> didn't do anything bad with it -- just made the CD ROM in the server randomly pop out
[07:51] <UpuWork> Well we got the admin in trouble
[07:51] <UpuWork> he has some "proto-animited gifs" of a man having sex with a pig
[07:52] <UpuWork> which didn't go down too well in a very Catholic school
[07:52] <UpuWork> I mean they were like Ceefax style graphics
[07:52] <UpuWork> has=had
[07:53] <UpuWork> right work calls bbs
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[08:03] <fsphil> aaah ceefax :)
[08:04] <fsphil> slow, but still faster than the text service on freeview now
[08:04] <eroomde> rasp pi will ship with arch as an option
[08:04] <eroomde> that's very good
[08:05] <eroomde> our blimp flew arch
[08:05] <eroomde> I am mega impressed with it
[08:05] <fsphil> Any sign of the rasp pi being released? it looks mighty
[08:05] <eroomde> the documentation and wiki are first rate
[08:05] <eroomde> it's due in nov
[08:05] <eroomde> they seem to be sticking with nov
[08:05] <eroomde> it's entirely uk designed and manufactured, which is cool
[08:05] <fsphil> arch was one of the first distros to package fswebcam, so they get my vote :)
[08:05] <eroomde> you could do some epic HABbing with it
[08:05] <eroomde> it has a camera header afterall
[08:06] <Darkside> hmm
[08:06] <eroomde> you could do some very sophisticated error correction encodings
[08:06] <Darkside> raspberr pi could be interesting
[08:06] <Darkside> but i'm not liking that the chip informatio isn't open
[08:07] <eroomde> Darkside: true there is that - it looks like some kind of pre-release broadcom chip
[08:07] <eroomde> that they guy in charge of the project is a part of
[08:08] <eroomde> i hope it gets released in time
[08:08] <fsphil> I'd like to do low-resolution digital video, but that isn't going to happen with 10mw
[08:08] <eroomde> at least we know the cpu architecture
[08:08] <eroomde> fsphil: we could fire up that 25m dish we were once offered
[08:08] <fsphil> ooh
[08:10] <fsphil> I'm trying to imagine how big that is... it's big
[08:10] <eroomde> it is
[08:10] <eroomde> it's an antique though
[08:10] <eroomde> the control was all valvues in rack-mounts
[08:10] <eroomde> and the mechanism looked a bit rusted
[08:10] <eroomde> it'd be A Job to get it running again
[08:10] <eroomde> a really fun way to spend a summer
[08:10] <fsphil> yea
[08:11] <eroomde> but i'm not sure were the capital would coem from
[08:12] <eroomde> it is an sd memory slot
[08:12] <eroomde> but i guess that can sustain some high megabits
[08:13] <eroomde> i'm just thinking about some fancier data logging applications that we've always struggled with
[08:13] <fsphil> what kind of data?
[08:13] <eroomde> and there's plenty of cpu ooomph for doing some exciting things too
[08:14] <eroomde> well, there area few applications
[08:14] <eroomde> raw logging of gps signals, forex
[08:14] <eroomde> a v high speed multi channel data logger for rocket motors
[08:14] <eroomde> cusf have an all-axis rocket static test rig
[08:14] <fsphil> 1 mbit would do nicely for a lot of things
[08:15] <eroomde> so that's 5 axis of very high speed high res data logging, to try and reconstruct the vibrations and forces in a firing rocket
[08:16] <eroomde> actually just being able to capture events to ram would be useful
[08:16] <fsphil> yea there's no need for it to be live
[08:17] <eroomde> one only needs 10s tops, really
[08:17] <eroomde> ina circular buffer
[08:17] <eroomde> gosh, exciting
[08:21] <fsphil> be exciting if they stick to that price
[08:21] <fsphil> it will need a good power source, peek consumption is 1W
[08:23] <fsphil> it's actually powerful enough to do most of my desktop duties
[08:25] <eroomde> yeah
[08:25] <eroomde> 1W is too bad though
[08:26] <eroomde> it won't be for 150g payloads or nuthin
[08:26] <eroomde> but it's still very workable
[08:26] <fsphil> that's peak though, with most of the video and network hardware turned off it'll probably drop a lot
[08:27] <fsphil> I wonder how far an adhoc wifi link could be sustained, if the speed was limited to 1mbit
[08:28] <eroomde> fsphil: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard#Components
[08:28] <fsphil> I've got a 1m dish for 2.4ghz
[08:28] <eroomde> so we're in business with the io
[08:29] <eroomde> fsphil: i've always thought 2.4ghz might make a good uplink
[08:29] <eroomde> if it's on an az-el
[08:29] <eroomde> you can put a decent dish on
[08:29] <eroomde> and a diddy receiver
[08:29] <eroomde> fsphil: oooh there's a dsp core
[08:30] <fsphil> spi and i2c, easy to interface with
[08:30] <eroomde> 24GFLOPS is nice to have....
[08:31] <eroomde> i want to get my head around real time unixeses
[08:31] <eroomde> i'm pretty psyched by this device!
[08:32] <eroomde> yeah J11 looks like the header of choice
[08:34] <fsphil> I'll need to practice my 1.27mm header making
[08:34] <eroomde> wooooop
[08:34] <fsphil> the audio connector can drive an ntx2
[08:34] <eroomde> yup
[08:34] <fsphil> though might need to remove the DC filter
[08:34] <eroomde> especially if one can remove the decoupling cap
[08:34] <eroomde> gah too slow
[08:35] <fsphil> hacking something that compact will be fun
[08:35] <eroomde> yep
[08:35] <eroomde> it'll be an excuse for me to really learn the guts on linux too
[08:35] <eroomde> i had a really fun time on the blimp
[08:36] <eroomde> writing drivers and generally learning about the low level kernel processes
[08:36] <eroomde> but i was on a team with some really talented and bright post-docs and it was difficult to keep up
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[09:25] <fsphil> weekend predictions are pretty awful still
[09:27] <eroomde> fsphil: are you hoping to fly something?
[09:28] <fsphil> if DM emailed me in time and the predictions where a bit better yea
[09:28] <fsphil> neither happened
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[09:32] <eroomde> ok
[09:32] <eroomde> nvm
[09:33] <fsphil> should be within the next few weeks. going to have a go at >40km
[09:36] <GW8RAK> Morning all. According to BBC North West this morning, a student rocket which got to 35K feet, "got to the edge of space".
[09:36] <eroomde> link us up?
[09:37] <fsphil> 10km .. that's still impressive
[09:37] <fsphil> 10.6km even
[09:38] <GW8RAK> Just a verbal report on telly this morning. Quite a big rocket however. Went whoosh and within a second or so disappeared into the low clouds.
[09:39] <eroomde> torben steeg is a good name for a project leader
[09:39] <eroomde> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-14735872
[09:39] <eroomde> right gtg
[09:40] <GW8RAK> That's why I couldn't find it on BBC NW site, launched from Scotland
[09:41] <fsphil> I do love rockets, but they're soooo expensive
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[09:46] <GW8RAK> "backed by £10K grant". What could the HAB world do with that?
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[09:47] <fsphil> oooh big ZP balloon or insurance
[09:48] Action: SpeedEvil puts on Nena - 99 red balloons.
[09:48] <daveake> Lifetime supply of He
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[09:49] <NigelMoby> Mooooorning
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[09:50] <daveake> Greeeeeetings
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[10:03] <fsphil> Exterrrrminate
[10:05] <Laurenceb_> http://www.suasnews.com/2011/08/7869/that-mystery-bird-shaped-drone/
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> http://item.rakuten.co.jp/keitai/54-169995/?scid=af_ich_link_txt
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[10:14] <fsphil> nice shape
[10:16] <daveake> Palm makes a comeback
[10:18] <fsphil> (the drone that is)
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[10:19] <daveake> Ah :-). Yes, nice shape.
[10:19] <fsphil> wonder if it's a glider
[10:22] <fsphil> probably not
[10:24] <daveake> Can't see a motor, but no, probably not
[10:26] <daveake> I'll try and get the Buzz1 firmware finished this weekend.
[10:27] <fsphil> how's it all looking?
[10:28] <daveake> Nice. I've done the flight logic so it has different modes for on the ground, going up, cutdown, landing etc
[10:28] <daveake> I have a PC program to produce NMEA data to emulate a flight
[10:29] <daveake> So hopefully no dodgy map errors this time :)
[10:29] <fsphil> that's the best test you can do I think
[10:29] <fsphil> unless you own a gps simulator :)
[10:29] <daveake> yep
[10:29] <daveake> :)
[10:30] <daveake> I need to add in the camera control, temp and pressure sensors
[10:30] <daveake> Most of that is existing code to merge in
[10:31] <fsphil> nearly there then. what camera are you flying?
[10:31] <daveake> Also need to check the Tx timing - I'm using an Arduino Mini Pro which has an 8MHz clock instead of the usual 16MHz. Won't take long to do with the little logic analyser
[10:31] <daveake> Currently still the crappocam
[10:32] <fsphil> aaah that
[10:32] <daveake> It is small and light - 15g including battery
[10:33] <daveake> Using the Kodak Zx1 would double the payload weight
[10:34] <daveake> More than double. Currently around 100g; Kodak is 90g and batteries another 60g
[10:34] <daveake> Another flight for that maybe
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[10:35] <fsphil> any video is nice to have
[10:35] <daveake> Crappocam does video
[10:36] <daveake> I'll probably get it do do say 30 secs of video, then 3 shots at 10s intervals, then back again. Do the loop when (say) 30km and up
[10:37] <daveake> It has an on/off button, and a separate button where a short press takes a photo, and a long press starts a video (then press again to stop). All easy to do from a program.
[10:37] <fsphil> I'm putting one in video record mode and hoping for the best
[10:38] <fsphil> suspect it'll record for about 30 minutes
[10:38] <daveake> This one allegedly does 2 hours on the battery (a small lipo).
[10:39] <daveake> I'll measure the current for standby/photo/video this weekend
[10:39] <daveake> And how long the battery really does last
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[10:55] <fsphil> oook... last firefox update has made it go all weird
[10:55] <fsphil> everytime I start it, it bring me to a random page I've been on in the last week
[10:57] <daveake> !!
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[11:04] <fsphil> evening RocketBoy n' rjharrison
[11:04] <fsphil> and by evening I mean afternoon
[11:04] <eroomde> rjharrison: you're abroad?
[11:12] <rjharrison> Yep in france
[11:13] <rjharrison> How's it going back in blighty
[11:13] <rjharrison> hi fsphil
[11:13] <rjharrison> Any news in the HAB world
[11:15] <fsphil> hard to tell, everything's up in the air
[11:17] <rjharrison> lol
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[11:18] <fsphil> not much happening atm. a very cool automated glider flight in the states (and interesting reaction on GPSL list)
[11:19] <eroomde> rjharrison: I am in france too
[11:19] <eroomde> the first day of meh weather so far this week
[11:19] <fsphil> did you see jcoxon's last foil balloon floater? that actually floated
[11:19] <eroomde> fsphil: I think the reaction is because W0OTM is an arse
[11:19] <eroomde> or at least, tends to behave like one with disproportionately low provocation
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[11:21] <fsphil> there's also been two flights around the 40km mark, but you probably know about those
[11:22] <eroomde> huh?
[11:22] <eroomde> i may not be completely up to date with gpsl
[11:23] <fsphil> oh, that's not gpsl
[11:23] <fsphil> meaning darkside and RocketBoy's flights
[11:23] <fsphil> just over and just under 40km
[11:23] <eroomde> darkside/cusf tyvm :p
[11:24] <fsphil> sowwy :)
[11:24] <eroomde> s'ok
[11:24] <eroomde> we'll try again i'm sure
[11:24] <fsphil> I'll be happy if I get above 33.3km, but I'm really aiming for 40km
[11:24] <eroomde> maybe a 100g payload and a 2kg hoywee, same ascent rate
[11:25] <eroomde> see what happens
[11:25] <fsphil> what was the ascent rate anyway? I'm going to try 2.5/ms
[11:25] <eroomde> i think there is probabl;y a great deal of luck at this end of the scale
[11:25] <eroomde> if not luck, a much lower signal to noise ratio
[11:25] <fsphil> indeed
[11:25] <eroomde> in terms of the affects of atmospheric conditions and filling conditions and so on on overall flight profile
[11:27] <fsphil> whatever happens it'll be interesting
[11:27] <fsphil> it could burst really low
[11:27] <eroomde> yes indeed
[11:27] <eroomde> how are you instrumenting it?
[11:28] <fsphil> basic tracker only
[11:28] <eroomde> ......any chance of a ickle wickle bit of pwessur data?
[11:28] <eroomde> pwetty pwease....???
[11:29] <fsphil> hehe, was thinking about it. I'm not familiar with any of the sensors, is there a preferred (and easy to interface) choice?
[11:29] <eroomde> not sure really
[11:30] <eroomde> anything that can measure with about <5Pa accuracy
[11:30] <eroomde> and low noise
[11:30] <eroomde> ideally 1Pa
[11:30] <eroomde> or of course, differential pressure in the balloon neck
[11:34] <codetiger> Hi, After getting enough help from here, I bought most of the things now
[11:34] <codetiger> I am planning my first launch in Octobar
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[11:35] <codetiger> However, Do you think storing Helium in a plastic bottle for 2 weeks will leak everything out?
[11:35] <eroomde> codetiger: excellent
[11:35] <eroomde> codetiger: quite possibly yes
[11:35] <eroomde> what kind of bottle
[11:36] <eroomde> more importantly, what kind of seal on the bottle?
[11:36] <eroomde> if it's just a screw-top like on a coke bottle, you have no chance i'm afraid
[11:36] <eroomde> helium is the most searching gas
[11:37] <codetiger> am wondering if I can use some petrolium based glue which they usually use for pipe joints
[11:38] <codetiger> Let me summerize my whole Idea so, let me know how crazy it is
[11:38] <codetiger> 1) I'll fill the balloon with some helium.
[11:39] <codetiger> 2) I'll fill the bottle with helium for reserve
[11:39] <rjharrison> Can't you just buy a bottle of helium. This is the usual aproach.
[11:40] <rjharrison> eroomde, where about's? Sorry just read up the page. I'm near Figeac
[11:40] <codetiger> 3) The balloon once reaches above jetstream, a pump will take heium from balloon to bottle and it will wait for the wind to go in purticular direction
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[11:41] <rjharrison> codetiger, There is a risk of over complicating things here
[11:41] <codetiger> 4) Everytime, the jetstream moves direction, the balloon will go up and stay safe there
[11:42] <rjharrison> Why would you want to do this. There is usually enough He to get well above the jetstream
[11:42] <codetiger> @rjharrison I am planning to take my baby around the world... :P sounds crazy I know
[11:42] <eroomde> rjharrison: guerande
[11:43] <eroomde> in brittany
[11:43] <eroomde> so nowhere near you :)
[11:43] <codetiger> @rjharrison and if possible land it right on my place back home...
[11:44] <rjharrison> codetiger, where about's are you?
[11:44] <codetiger> India
[11:44] <rjharrison> Cool I think you may have a sight problem with the UV affecting the balloon for such a long duration flight
[11:45] <eroomde> yes
[11:45] <rjharrison> Perhaps getting the basics of tracking and recovery sorted out first might be a good step
[11:45] <eroomde> you might last about 20hrs on sunlight if you're lucky i think :)
[11:46] <rjharrison> BTW eroomde 35C here atm. Sat by the pool with the XYL topless. Could be worse :-)
[11:47] <codetiger> @rjharrison @eroomde :) Thats why I was thinking about 2 balloons inside the other, to make the envolope stronger
[11:47] <eroomde> rjharrison: luck you. only 27 here. but not complaining as i'm a bit sunburnt
[11:47] <eroomde> or at least, was flirting with it yesterday
[11:47] <codetiger> Anyway, how long can it take to go around the world if what I saw was possible
[11:47] <eroomde> taking it easy today
[11:47] <eroomde> codetiger: potentially weeks
[11:48] <eroomde> this really is unrealistic
[11:48] <rjharrison> Probably weeks. You are not going to be able to maintain a perfect flight path in the JS
[11:48] <codetiger> My second mission's target is this. :)
[11:49] <rjharrison> I would look at a different envelope if you are serious about this.
[11:49] <codetiger> Yeah, I am thinking about a whole plastic envelope. Like Nasa does
[11:49] <codetiger> Thin plastic
[11:50] <codetiger> Anyway, Am just trying to find all possible approches
[11:51] <eroomde> it's a noble effort
[11:51] <eroomde> but i think there is a huge amount of testing to do for you first
[11:51] <eroomde> i would completely forget about that for a while until you can reliable fly and track a normal latex balloon
[11:51] <rjharrison> Zero pressure / super pressure foil envelope with a few grands woth of He in it. I reckon you could do something amazing for about 1m$
[11:51] <eroomde> you will have to do this anyway for your round the world trip
[11:52] <rjharrison> This is assuming you give all your time for free
[11:52] <rjharrison> eroomde, how id the MBA doing
[11:53] <eroomde> rjharrison: i love it
[11:53] <eroomde> very neat
[11:53] <rjharrison> Yep I'm working on putting one out the bag for work
[11:53] <Randomskk> ceo here just got one
[11:53] <Randomskk> loves it
[11:53] <eroomde> but i need an ergonomic keyboard for serious work
[11:53] <eroomde> this is just a toy
[11:53] <rjharrison> Testing of the DMS I have written on alternative OS's
[11:54] <Randomskk> eroomde: so atm I'm typing on a MS natural 4000, have you used one?
[11:54] <Randomskk> I understand it's not as hardcore ergonomic as yours
[11:54] <Randomskk> but it is all curvy and split and shit
[11:54] <rjharrison> Is the powerbook a better long term prospect as I think I can only pull this off once
[11:55] <Randomskk> they haven't done powerbooks in a long long time
[11:55] <Randomskk> do you mean macbook pro?
[11:55] <Randomskk> personally I'd get an air over the pro unless you're going to ne using it as your main/primary/only computer
[11:55] <eroomde> Randomskk: yes i have used one
[11:55] <eroomde> it's half way there
[11:55] <Randomskk> for a /laptop/ the mba is excellent
[11:55] <eroomde> i'm pushing for a kinesis advantage tho atm
[11:55] <rjharrison> hehe Yep MB Pro
[11:55] <Randomskk> eroomde: some parts annoy me slightly and I can't tell if it's more comfortable or what
[11:55] <Randomskk> but then I don't yet have issues with my wrists
[11:56] <eroomde> yeah
[11:56] <Randomskk> in particular typing a lot of punctuation is tons harder
[11:56] <eroomde> annoyingly you sort of have to f*ck your wrists first to be able to tell the diff
[11:56] <Randomskk> all the right hand edge bits, including ,.{}#~ seems much more annoying
[11:57] <eroomde> i've not noticed the problem on my kinesis freestyle
[11:57] <Randomskk> hmm
[11:58] <eroomde> it's just a normal keyboard but karate chopped down the middle and angled properly
[11:58] <Randomskk> for now I think I'll stick with my logitech illuminated at home, it's flat and nice and pretty and small
[11:58] <eroomde> http://haskell.org/wikiupload/a/aa/Screen-triplehead-galois.jpg
[11:58] <eroomde> this is the dream ^
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[11:58] <Randomskk> looks so weird
[11:58] <eroomde> except for that mouse
[11:58] <eroomde> that mouse looks like carpel tunnel in plastic form
[11:58] <Randomskk> wait really?
[11:59] <Randomskk> I think that's a logitech MX518 or something
[11:59] <eroomde> yes
[11:59] <Randomskk> I have a logitech G5 which is broadly similar and realy nice
[11:59] <eroomde> i have an evoluent vertical mouse
[11:59] <eroomde> solved a lot of pains
[11:59] <Randomskk> ah
[11:59] <rjharrison> Trackball all the way here
[11:59] <eroomde> the kinesis advantage keyboards come with foot switches too
[11:59] <eroomde> which you can map modifier keys to
[11:59] <eroomde> saves you getting emacs pinky
[12:00] <fsphil> the thinkpads (older ones anyway) have the little joystick/nipple mouse. it's brilliant
[12:00] <eroomde> of course using a proper text editor would save you getting that too
[12:00] <Randomskk> <3 vim ofc
[12:00] <Randomskk> though remapping ; to : has made my life a lot nicer
[12:00] <eroomde> yes i did that a year or so ago
[12:00] <eroomde> a lot better
[12:00] <eroomde> and jj to <ESC>
[12:00] <eroomde> so now i can just type
[12:00] <Randomskk> I considered that
[12:00] <eroomde> jj;wq
[12:01] <eroomde> and be done
[12:01] <Randomskk> and in fact I think I have that mapped but don't use it much
[12:01] <Randomskk> esp is realy annoying
[12:01] <Randomskk> esc* even
[12:01] <eroomde> hence jj
[12:01] <Randomskk> I've seen capslock used, or left meta
[12:01] <eroomde> although my kinesis has a huge great esc
[12:01] <eroomde> that you can't miss
[12:01] <Randomskk> but they don't seem tons better, plus I use left esc for xmonad
[12:01] <eroomde> off on its own with space around
[12:02] <Randomskk> MBA esc less good
[12:02] <eroomde> lol yes
[12:02] <eroomde> i'm not sure still if i'll return to xmonad
[12:02] <eroomde> actually maybe on the big box
[12:02] <eroomde> now that i have a hassle free laptop
[12:02] <eroomde> i left xmonad because of mainly 'entertainment' related annoyances
[12:02] <Randomskk> I continue to really like it with the exceptions of a) fullscreen flask/movies gets very annoying and b) doing things like running python scripts that generate graphs
[12:03] <eroomde> like fullscreen flash vids
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[12:03] <Randomskk> where the graph window pops up
[12:03] <Randomskk> and ends up really small and a silly size
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[12:03] <eroomde> i've been quite impressed with compiz grid tbh
[12:03] <eroomde> ctrl+alt+numpad
[12:03] <eroomde> to move windows around
[12:03] <Randomskk> hmm I never tried that compiz
[12:03] <eroomde> it's grand
[12:03] <Randomskk> I did generally like compiz a lot but I like this tiling business
[12:04] <eroomde> moreover, you can repeatly press a number to adjust the size of the window
[12:04] <Randomskk> have to give it a go
[12:04] <eroomde> so, ctrl+alt+6 would make it take the right hand half of the screen
[12:04] <eroomde> and pressing 6 again would make it take 66%
[12:04] <eroomde> then 75%
[12:04] <Randomskk> oh, nice
[12:04] <eroomde> then toggle back to 25%
[12:04] <eroomde> then 33%
[12:04] <eroomde> so you can tile things up quite nicely
[12:05] <Randomskk> doesn't that mean you do spend a bit of time making all the windows fit together tiled though?
[12:05] <Randomskk> or is there a button to tile everything and then adjust it?
[12:05] <eroomde> to get 2x2 or 3x3 or some hybrid thereof
[12:05] <eroomde> and that suits me 99.9% of the time
[12:05] <Randomskk> I mean, is it like divvy
[12:05] <Randomskk> where you can tile but you have to set every window
[12:05] <eroomde> it's slightly quicker than divvy
[12:05] <eroomde> by a couple of keystrokes
[12:05] <eroomde> but yes, there's no 'just make it how i like it' magic button
[12:05] <rjharrison> eroomde, is that a kenisis in the picture you sent through
[12:05] <eroomde> well there may be in grid, but i've not used it if there is
[12:06] <eroomde> rjharrison: yes
[12:06] <eroomde> that's the advantage
[12:06] <eroomde> there is also the freestyle with is more affordable
[12:06] <eroomde> that's just a keyboard chopped in half and adjutsbale ins angle and height
[12:07] <Randomskk> why can't they make it look sexy though
[12:07] <Randomskk> apple keyboards or my logitech illuminated look great
[12:07] <eroomde> i know
[12:07] <eroomde> i like my little apple bluetooth keyboard
[12:08] <eroomde> bit it's what gave me all these nasty problems
[12:08] <Randomskk> :(
[12:08] <eroomde> i will save the bluetooth keyboard to boxee on the old mbp which i will make into a tv for the living room
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[12:19] <eroomde> right bbl
[12:23] <NigeyS> meg afternoon
[12:23] <NigeyS> meh*
[12:24] <m1x10> Hi all
[12:24] <m1x10> I am having an interview at 17:00 :)
[12:24] <m1x10> And I had an interview at 13:00 :)
[12:25] Action: m1x10 increased his happiness level by 1%
[12:25] <Laurenceb> interview?
[12:25] <m1x10> job intervire
[12:25] <m1x10> interview*
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[13:28] <W0OTM> eroomde: Im a ass huh?
[13:32] <NigeyS> eh wah ?
[13:34] <W0OTM> "eroomde: fsphil: I think the reaction is because W0OTM is an arse"
[13:35] <W0OTM> unless there is a definition of "arse" I am not aware of
[13:35] <NigeyS> ooooooook... morning though :)
[13:37] <Dan-K2VOL> morning nigeys!
[13:38] <Dan-K2VOL> we put on a good going away night out for Hibby last night
[13:38] <Dan-K2VOL> I don't think he'll be conscious for a while :-P
[13:38] <NigeyS> haha awsome stuff dan!
[13:41] <eroomde> W0OTM: '11:19 < eroomde> or at least, tends to behave like one with disproportionately low provocation'
[13:41] <eroomde> the next line
[13:41] <eroomde> if you'd read it
[13:41] <eroomde> and i completely stand by it
[13:42] <NigeyS> Hi Ed :)
[13:42] <Dan-K2VOL> morning ed
[13:42] <eroomde> hello NigeyS
[13:42] <eroomde> and Dan
[13:43] <Laurenceb> drama++
[13:43] <W0OTM> eroomde: thats fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion
[13:43] <NigeyS> Laurenceb, yuhuh
[13:43] <eroomde> indeed. i'm sorry for directly accusing you of being one, i hope you accept my immediate clarification
[13:43] <W0OTM> Laurenceb: no doubt, some people feel the need to run at the mouth
[13:44] <W0OTM> eroomde: I dont give a crap what you do. Im not here to defend myself.
[13:44] <NigeyS> oooook back to configuring a load balancer.........
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[13:54] <eroomde> W0OTM: just FYI, as I know you publicly announced you weren't having anything to do with the GPSL list anymore, there has been an email posted from someone at the FAA about the regulations that a glider drop from above 400ft would have to comply with. it might be worth reading
[13:54] <W0OTM> I have, and it has No merrit
[13:54] <W0OTM> If I were you, I would try and calm Joe down, he is a loose cannon to the HAB community
[13:55] <W0OTM> according to his "vauge" discussions with the FAA, they indicated ANY HAB launch is now illeagal
[13:55] <W0OTM> Code of Federal Regulations Part 101, Section 101.7 (a) and (b) where it talks about Hazardous Operations.
[13:55] <W0OTM> (b): "No person operating any moored balloon, kite, unmanned rocket, or unmanned free balloon may allow an object to be dropped therefrom, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property."
[13:56] <eroomde> yes i was confused about the 'creating no hazard' bit
[13:56] <W0OTM> that includes traditional balloon payloads
[13:56] <W0OTM> SO before you go running your mouth again, take a min to educate yourself!
[13:56] <eroomde> as balloons would clearly fall under the definition of what constitutes a hazrad, according to his logic
[13:56] <W0OTM> Our discussions with the FAA were NOT vauge in anyway
[13:57] <W0OTM> Joe emailing the FAA with "vauge" details doesn't do anything but create a liability to the HAB community
[13:57] <eroomde> i'm not sure i've been 'running my mouth', my comment was based on your quite rude response to joe and bill when you (for some reason) copied the UKHAS list in to your debate
[13:58] <W0OTM> Bill sent the first email to that list, NOT me
[13:58] <eroomde> there are better ways of handling this kind of thing on mailing lists, especially when you're debating law
[13:58] <W0OTM> true, Bill and Joe should assess their approach
[13:59] <eroomde> I've not seen Bill do anything objectionable?
[14:00] <W0OTM> that a question?
[14:00] <eroomde> I guess so
[14:01] <eroomde> i'm not sure what bill needs to reassess in his approach to this, can you provide me with an example?
[14:03] <W0OTM> im not going to continue this conversation.
[14:03] <W0OTM> ill be the bigger person here
[14:04] <eroomde> or 'no' as we call it over here
[14:05] <WillDuckworth> it's interesting how the big defence companies manage to get permission for this sort of thing - e.g. Qinetiq's Zypher - must be the piles of cash...
[14:06] <NigeyS> i'd imagine the fact qinetiq is a defence contractor may have something to do with it to ;)
[14:06] <WillDuckworth> exacto
[14:07] <eroomde> they have the resources to do the paperwork
[14:07] <eroomde> and they often have access to ranges
[14:07] <eroomde> which are very expensive
[14:07] <eroomde> I am in a similar boat as them for my day job
[14:07] <eroomde> we can use the ESRANGE in kiruna
[14:07] <eroomde> to drop a 650kg vehicle to a high subsonic freefall from an enormous zero pressure balloon
[14:08] <eroomde> but I see what the range requirements are, both financially and beaurocratically, and they are staggeringly beyond the amateur
[14:08] <eroomde> I think there would be a great benefit to opening it all up to the amateur, but alas
[14:09] <eroomde> maybe we should buy a chaunk of some desert country and found amatuRange
[14:09] <NigeyS> haha sounds like a plan :p
[14:09] <eroomde> motto: 'it's your own fault'. cost: zero
[14:16] <WillDuckworth> hey eroomde - off the top of your head, what's the state of play with UAVs in the UK?
[14:16] <WillDuckworth> not allowed above 3000 feet or something like that?
[14:16] <eroomde> 400feet and line of sight *I Think*
[14:17] <eroomde> but a) it changes a lot and b) I'm absolutely not an expert
[14:17] <eroomde> maybe diydrones.com will have something more up to date
[14:17] <WillDuckworth> yeah, they're good - within sight is the key.
[14:18] <W0OTM> UAVs in the US DO NOT include un-powered aircraft
[14:18] <W0OTM> per Code of Federal Regulations Part 101, Section 101.7
[14:18] <W0OTM> so are not limited to UAV altitude restrictions
[14:19] <eroomde> WillDuckworth: you are UK based thought unless i'm mistaken?
[14:20] <WillDuckworth> indeed eroomde
[14:21] <eroomde> so I'm not really sure what the ins and outs are. I can't really see what the difference is between falling with a cloth aerosurface (a parachute) and falling with a plastic one (a wing)
[14:21] <eroomde> but, i don't make th rules
[14:21] <eroomde> maybe there's some Lift-over-drag threshold
[14:22] <W0OTM> eroomde: we agree on something!
[14:22] <eroomde> W0OTM: oh i don't disagree with you! I think it *should* be fine
[14:23] <W0OTM> eroomde: seems to me that falling with only a parachute is MUCH more of a hazard
[14:23] <eroomde> my beef was simply with the way it was being debated on the gpsl thread that got copied into the UKHAS list
[14:23] <eroomde> and we've agreed to disagree on that
[14:23] <eroomde> but technically, i think this sort of thing really should be done
[14:23] <eroomde> it's interesting and exciting
[14:23] <eroomde> and safe, i think
[14:23] <eroomde> aslong as it's unpowered
[14:24] <eroomde> parachutes glide anyway
[14:24] <W0OTM> no, I agree CC it to UKHAS wasnt a good idea
[14:24] <eroomde> some of them have greater than 1/1 glide angles
[14:24] <eroomde> well, lots of parachutes have much greater than 1/1, but even symmetric parachutes can be greater than 1/1
[14:25] <eroomde> which is actually something the ukhas predictor should be aware of come to think of it...
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> Is a parachute a flexible structure with no inherent compressive strength?
[14:25] <eroomde> yes
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> Or is there some more involved definition.
[14:25] <eroomde> it's shape us usually entirely a function of pressure distribution
[14:26] Action: SpeedEvil wonders what the optimum l/d of ram-air types is.
[14:26] <eroomde> for modelling more complex things like deployments and higher 'mass fraction' (parachute inertia vs air inertia) scenarios, you have to take into account things like stiffness
[14:26] <eroomde> but to a first pass in equilibrium, you can ignore tha for most parachutes in most cases
[14:27] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: no idea
[14:27] <eroomde> ask junderwood when he's on ehre next time
[14:27] <eroomde> he teaches people at nasa about parachutes
[14:28] <WillDuckworth> UK UAV restrictions seem to be a max 400ft and within 500metres of the controller (love the dual units) found in CAA docs and here on diydrones: http://diydrones.com/forum/topics/uk-uav-regulations-explained
[14:28] <WillDuckworth> _max altitude of
[14:29] <eroomde> ta
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> What is 'sense and avoid'
[14:30] <eroomde> don't crash into something
[14:32] <BrainDamage> active collision avoidance system
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it's got impractical to implement requirements.
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> Is this the passenger plane one?>
[14:33] <Dan-K2VOL> ADS-B will make that sensing much easier
[14:34] <eroomde> what is that - some kind of transpoder?
[14:35] <W0OTM> oh god, there goes Dan-K2VOL and his ADS-B idea :)
[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> actually I don't think god is going to help it much
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, it's the next generation of transponder, it finally adds lat/lon/heading/speed to the transponder reply, and adds a simple beacon mode for other planes to receive directly
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> very very simple modulation and encoding
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[14:39] <W0OTM> :)
[14:39] <eroomde> nice
[14:39] <eroomde> hopefully there will be light ones off the shelf
[14:40] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, an academic paper gave hope for that, they had one in a small project box, looked like as much as you'd need for APRS
[14:41] <Laurenceb> id go for a controlled chute
[14:41] <BrainDamage> or, keep the payload still, move the earth
[14:42] <eroomde> Laurenceb: me too
[14:42] <eroomde> it also just looks like a chute
[14:42] <Laurenceb> or a rogallo
[14:43] <Laurenceb> i launched a rogallo from 11km and it glided ok
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[14:53] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if it magically becomes unapproved if you pressurese parts of the chute with non-ram-air.
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[14:57] <eroomde> bbl
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[14:58] <daveake> Laurenceb Was that a guided rogallo?
[14:58] <Laurenceb> an attempt at one :P
[14:58] <daveake> :p
[14:58] <Laurenceb> the winch servo came untied
[14:58] <Laurenceb> poor choice of knot
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[14:59] <daveake> I was thinking about working with a paraglider (a friend is heavily into those). Does a rogallo have advantages over those? Better glide angle, or faster?
[15:00] <Laurenceb> its about the same performance wide
[15:00] <Laurenceb> *wise
[15:00] <Laurenceb> but it cant tangle up
[15:00] <daveake> ah, useful feature :)
[15:00] <Laurenceb> looking over the imu telemetery from ym flight theres were times it flipped almost upside down
[15:00] <Laurenceb> bands of very heavy turbulence
[15:00] <daveake> ooer
[15:01] <Laurenceb> a parafoil wouldnt have stood a chance
[15:01] <daveake> nope
[15:01] <Laurenceb> you could see it occured at interfaces between different wind directions
[15:01] <Laurenceb> could have been the weather, its was hardly a clam day
[15:01] <Laurenceb> *calm
[15:02] <Laurenceb> tho actual wind speed was low
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[15:02] <daveake> Interesting, tvm
[15:03] <Laurenceb> rogallos are interesting to play with
[15:03] <Laurenceb> you can get very good glide ratio - approaching 5
[15:03] <daveake> What size is yours (ooer, missus)
[15:03] <Laurenceb> if you move the CofG forward, but you have to avoid it going to far, or itll dive
[15:04] <Laurenceb> 80cm wingspan
[15:04] <Laurenceb> 110degree apex angle
[15:04] <Laurenceb> apparently that works best
[15:04] <daveake> ok. And what controls? Just left/right, or the glide angle too?
[15:04] <Laurenceb> also fabric porosity is important, my nylon was a bit porus
[15:04] <Laurenceb> left right, using winch servo to control the wing
[15:05] <Laurenceb> its mounted on little sealed bearing units
[15:05] <daveake> ok. AIUI with a paraglider you pull both to go faster/steeper
[15:05] <Laurenceb> i just tilted entire wing
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[15:07] <Laurenceb> i went wrong by not realising how violent the shaking on ascent would be
[15:08] <Laurenceb> it managed to dislodge the nylon line from the winch servo
[15:08] <daveake> Yeah, not something you know without trying
[15:08] <Laurenceb> ill use use CA glue now
[15:08] <daveake> :)
[15:08] <Laurenceb> the wings werent tilted, and it went down in ~200m radius circles
[15:09] <Laurenceb> glide ratio was about 3.6, im guessing due to fabric porosity
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[15:09] <Laurenceb> i got 4.6 down a hill with polythene wings on the same thing
[15:10] <daveake> And was this self-inflating or with rigid supports?
[15:10] <Laurenceb> 6mm dowel
[15:10] <daveake> Ta
[15:10] <Laurenceb> sewn in
[15:10] <Laurenceb> me sewing sucks :P
[15:10] <Laurenceb> *my
[15:10] <daveake> DIY job then :)
[15:10] <Laurenceb> yes, back stitched by hand
[15:10] <daveake> Yeah, I got Mrs Dave to sew the hole/lines in my 'chute :)
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[15:20] <Laurenceb> i even managed some slope soaring with the some of the polythene ones
[15:21] <Laurenceb> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:mihab:p4130055.jpg
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[15:30] <Elwell> right, small child wanted to buy kite with (crappy looking) camera on today - said no, we'll DIY one - so, what's recommended?
[15:34] <Randomskk> kite photography is a big thing
[15:34] <Randomskk> like, lots of info online
[15:34] <Randomskk> get a cheap canon point and shoot for nevertheless really excellent results
[15:34] <Randomskk> install CHDK so it can take pictures regularly
[15:34] <Randomskk> set it to like every second or whatever
[15:34] <rjharrison> canon camera chdk and mount
[15:35] <Randomskk> mount it to some kite somehow - tape or whatever really
[15:35] <Randomskk> and go fly a kite
[15:35] <Randomskk> or more succintly, what rjharrison said
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> I wonder if you could use the David Laserscanner stuff and a scanning laser to 3-D scan terrain from a kite at night
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> or balloon
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[16:05] <NigeyS> slightly wobbly connection today RocketBoy ?
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[16:16] <Hiena> Dan-K2VOL: Use kinect.
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL> Hiena I think there's a range limit on kinect of just a few meters though
[16:17] <daveake> RocketBoy is the new smea
[16:17] Action: SpeedEvil needs to get his laser ranger built.
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> 100mW 780nm laser diode, 25mm lens, narrowband optical filter
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Add in synchronus demodulation, and you can get to stupid-o-SNR
[16:18] <Hiena> I'm thinking to put few cameras to the UAV's wingspan and let it fly, with a strong kinect like software.
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: Flexing may be fun
[16:18] <Hibby> all about the stereoscopic vision
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[16:19] <Hiena> SpeedEvil: I know, but where is the engineering fun without it?
[16:19] Action: SpeedEvil wishes he had more time.
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[16:20] <m1x10> 2nd interview over!
[16:20] <fsphil-laptop> yay!
[16:20] <fsphil-laptop> go well?
[16:21] <m1x10> today both interviews left a positive air
[16:21] <m1x10> but no one knows
[16:22] <m1x10> the first company also give a good salary
[16:22] <m1x10> the second didnt tell me !
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> Morning Hibby, is your vision returning to stereoscopic?
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[16:23] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL: it's a work in progress
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[16:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> hi kev
[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> great, u?
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good too thanks
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> finally some water to drink :)
[16:38] <m1x10> Lunar_Lander: you got lack of water?
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> only when I am out of the house
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> :) back at home is enough to drink
[16:40] <m1x10> hehe
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> XD sparkfun has a sticker which shows the resistor values
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> and then it says "Features: Red background with white contrast lettering
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> Adhesive-backed
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> Highly portable
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> Lightweight
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> Reliable
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> Negligible error rate
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> Extremely low power consumption"
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[16:51] <m1x10> fsphil-laptop
[16:51] <m1x10> in english you say moldy or musty?
[16:51] <m1x10> i found some papers that turned into blue due to moisture
[16:52] <m1x10> from 1 year ago
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> musty is more the smell of mold
[16:53] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL: did you manage to avoid getting tased last night?
[16:53] <m1x10> ok moldy then
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[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil GW8RAK
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[17:10] <fsphil-laptop> hiya Lunar_Lander
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[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> hey all, how's the air up there
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> I think it would be neat to have a zero pressure balloon that tried to ride cloud contours for some pretty cool pics/video
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[17:15] <fsphil-laptop> you'd need amazing control
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah definitely
[17:16] Action: Hibby has no flight details for Sunday yet
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[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> uh oh hibby, If needed we still have 4 good ZP envelopes, you'd probably float at around 2km
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> you might ask your travel agent to start running hysplit predictions and see what they say :-P
[17:17] <fsphil-laptop> bring snacks
[17:18] <Hibby> heheh
[17:18] <Dan-K2VOL> do the trans-atlantic hibby hop
[17:18] <fsphil-laptop> they do sound like an amazingly incompetent travel agents
[17:18] <Hibby> staggering, isn't it
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[17:38] <Hibby> as it turns out, the long pause from the customer service agent was bad
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[17:41] <Randomskk> Hibby: never ending story huh
[17:42] <Hibby> Randomskk: indeed. They changed my flights to go via New York for some reason, but I've not had any new itinerary through
[17:42] <Randomskk> :/
[17:42] <Hibby> and the customer service girl said it looks fine, but she can't check the details
[17:42] <Hibby> I was like... get more access
[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm yes
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> travel agents are apparently useless, what is this place doing for you that wouldn't be done better by a darn website?
[17:43] <Hibby> the university paid for the initial tickets through them, sadly.
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> ah yes
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[17:51] Action: Hibby successfully organises beer, sofa and lift to airport in Cinci for Saturday night and Sunday
[17:51] <Hibby> hurrah
[17:56] <Dan-K2VOL> bravo hibby
[17:59] <eroomde> you could be one of those fixers for mega large firms
[17:59] <eroomde> who can get clients wimbledon centre court tickets at 4 mins notice
[17:59] <Hibby> ahaha
[17:59] <Hibby> i suspect not
[18:00] <Hibby> i appear to have a face that begs nicely for favours though
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[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
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[18:32] <wild-wing> lol how is every one
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[18:34] Action: fsphil-laptop is spiffy
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi wild-wing I am fine
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[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> and you?
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy : what is happening to your connection?
[18:39] <RocketBoy> seems to drop out after a burst of noise on the wifi
[18:39] <Upu> evening
[18:40] <Upu> guess you're not launching this weekend RocketBoy ? http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=cacc015da990c8cd27fdcf079e87f133b8ebedce
[18:40] <fsphil-laptop> oh eck
[18:40] <RocketBoy> i guess it wouldn't be wise
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[18:41] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander
[18:41] <Upu> no don't think I'd do that with a cut down
[18:41] <Upu> BTW I had a play round with some non explosive cut downs
[18:41] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF5FO2ECbfU
[18:42] <Upu> thats a tube filled with wax infused with match heads ignited by nichrome
[18:42] <wild-wing> hey lunar_lander
[18:43] <Upu> still compared to the explosive ones they aren't as effective
[18:44] <RocketBoy> yeah - the ones that go pop are very reliable
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> wild-wing : how are you?
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[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> Upu : soldered yesterday and today
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> was easy with the better iron
[18:51] <Upu> yeah a good iron with a small tip helps
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> this time I could use a Weller, 24 V, 50 W
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:51] <Upu> what are you soldering - payload ?
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> breakouts and m1x10's board
[18:52] <Upu> ok cool
[18:52] <Upu> what does m1x10's board do ?
[18:53] <RocketBoy> every so often i get a noise burst on the wifi that causes the connection to drop out http://imagebin.org/170710 - no idea what the cause is at the mo
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> it is his flight computer, bringing together a gpsBee, SD card, transmitter and sensors
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> and a camera
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> *camera module
[18:54] <fsphil-laptop> uart camera?
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> I think so
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> yes UART
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.cutedigi.com/product_info.php?products_id=4444
[18:57] <wild-wing> im good lunar_lander sorry for the delay i cant hear the dings of irc lol how are you
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> I'm fine also thanks
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> despite breathing solder fumes and stuff
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:58] <fsphil-laptop> good for you :)
[18:58] <fsphil-laptop> ah the linksprite
[18:58] <wild-wing> lol thats not bad at all try insulation
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> and today I wetted the sponge too much
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> so that I actually had some water in the sponge pit that boiled while wiping
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:00] <wild-wing> its way worse makes everyting taste funny for a day
[19:00] <fsphil-laptop> I don't use wet sponges anymore, got a wire sponge
[19:00] <fsphil-laptop> it works much much better
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:00] <daveake> yep
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> and the sponge cooled the iron down too much
[19:00] <fsphil-laptop> also looks like a pot of gold :)
[19:00] <wild-wing> lol
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> had to wait a few seconds to get the artifacts off the iron
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> but I would have thought it more difficult
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> especially the CPU holder which has 40 pins
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> but that was done in less than 5 minutes
[19:02] <fsphil-laptop> those bits are easy, I find resistors and similar to be the hardest
[19:02] <fsphil-laptop> they keep moving about
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> that wasn't really a problem today
[19:09] <fsphil-laptop> my own wifi is struggling tonight
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> I just put them through and bent the long leads
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> then soldered
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> just have to find good pliers for clipping
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[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi SamSilver
[19:10] <fsphil-laptop> yea, little pair of angled snippers do wonders
[19:10] <SamSilver> Lunar_Lander: hi there
[19:11] <SamSilver> how is your payload doing?
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> well today I finished much soldering work
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> now we can probably go on to software
[19:12] <SamSilver> Dan-K2VOL: welcome
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[19:13] <SamSilver> Lunar_Lander: will you be flying a preasure sensor?
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> wb Dan-K2VOL
[19:13] <SamSilver> one in the neck and one external?
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[19:15] <SamSilver> http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/activity
[19:15] <SamSilver> good work done by this group
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> ah you mean a balloon pressure sensor
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> maybe later
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> now I have only one for the normal atmosphere
[19:16] <Hiena> I was fined several things in my life, but i was fined at the first time being too careful. Years ago, i had a hazardous material handling and storage permit from one of my business partner. Today two guys showed up from the government inspect the storage condition of the hazardous materials. I told them the due date of the permit was three years ago, but if the want see it, they could check the empty cabinet. I showed them the keys
[19:16] <Hiena> cabinet and the matrial handling notes, including the MSDs, and showed the rusty steel cabinet with a lock, and two padlock. They told me, they will be issue a warning and will be retain the material handling permit for two year, because i obstructed the easy access of the material.
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[19:18] <SamSilver> I am being called from the bed by SWMBO
[19:18] <SamSilver> so later
[19:18] <SamSilver> afk
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> cu SamSilver
[19:18] <fsphil-laptop> good luck
[19:18] <SamSilver> cheers Lunar_Lander
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:19] <SamSilver> fsphil-laptop: I will be using the old fall back " sorry honey I had to many beers" excuse
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> the back side of the board now has rosin markings
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[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> these can be removed with alcohol, right?
[19:20] <fsphil-laptop> I think so
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> at the uni they have technical alcohol that I could use
[19:20] <Hiena> Lunar_Lander: buy flux remover or some really strong moonshine.
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> as I said I can get 100% alcohol at the university labs
[19:21] <fsphil-laptop> it's amazing they get anything done in university labs :)
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[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:22] <Hiena> Usually i buy 100% alcohol at the drug store.
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> today we had plum cake
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> by the mother of one of the Ph.D. students
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:23] <fsphil-laptop> nice
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:23] <Hiena> Nice. Is she got the project member status?
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> and despite those are people involved in macromolecular research, they are quite interested in my balloon stuff
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> xD I can ask her Hiena
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> the thing is that they use strong magnets of which some are supraconductors
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> thus they use up much helium
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> and in turn the professor said that he could donate me the helium for my flights
[19:24] <Hiena> You know, how is the university projects: team members, mentors, sponsors, moms.
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah
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[19:44] <m1x10> oh my brother got facebook account and now he starts asking things!
[19:45] <fsphil-laptop> the joys of facebook
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[19:47] <Laurenceb_> farcebook
[19:49] <fsphil-laptop> usetheforcebook
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[20:03] <m1x10> :P
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> if someone knows LaTeX
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> a table written in there looks like this: http://pastebin.com/Bzs9vddv
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[20:20] <normalguy> hello!
[20:21] <fsphil-laptop> evening :)
[20:24] <normalguy> hi there! new guy here, a little overwhelmed by the volume of information on the wiki! i was wondering if there is any way of tracking a balloon without using radio equipment, as reported here http://www.pcworld.com/article/208081/iphone_4_launched_into_space_with_weather_balloon.html
[20:24] <normalguy> sorry, any more information on alternative methods?
[20:24] <normalguy> to clarify :)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> that is the NYC flight right?
[20:25] <normalguy> yes, it is :)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:25] <fsphil-laptop> phones are a bit risky I think
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC he wasn't liked so much because he did it close to the airport without infoming them
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL1> sure you can use very simple devices like the FindMeSpot, or any cell phone with tracking software, but you will generally not get any altitude readings, or you won't get any readings at all after a few minutes of flight until landing
[20:26] <normalguy> you mean cost wise or danger-wise (remember i'm new, so sorry about stupid questions)
[20:26] <normalguy> ah
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL1> normalguy what country are you in
[20:27] <normalguy> the uk :)
[20:27] <fsphil-laptop> danger wise. the phone may not survive (batteries dont like being cold) or you could land in an area with no network coverage
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> some people also try to use SPOT
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> which is, IIRC a GPS with a Globalstar transmitter
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL1> SPOT is your simplest, most reliable way to do it without much work
[20:28] <normalguy> researching now, thanks!
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL1> but it won't give you much data, only a report every 20 minutes
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL1> normalguy, more importanly make sure you understand what you need to do legally to fly
[20:29] <normalguy> dont worry, i wont be flying in the near future, im trying to gather as much information as i can before starting a project
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL1> I recommend going to someone else's balloon launch in the UK and seeing what goes into it
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL1> they happen often
[20:29] <normalguy> ok, ill look into it on the wiki
[20:30] <normalguy> ive go experience in model rocketry, so im aware of the need for NOTAMS etc
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL1> good man
[20:31] <fsphil-laptop> where abouts in the uk normalguy, if you don't mine me asking
[20:32] <normalguy> during a launch, are there multiple launches over the course of a day?
[20:32] <normalguy> south west
[20:33] <fsphil-laptop> not usually, though it has happened
[20:33] <normalguy> seems like a good idea, seeing as you could share the paperwork? or are collisions likely?
[20:34] <Dan-K2VOL1> almost impossible to collide
[20:34] <fsphil-laptop> not unless they where launched at the same moment.. though that's happened too :)
[20:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> unless yeah they were right next to eachother on launch, and even then the probability drops over time
[20:35] <normalguy> oh fair enough!
[20:36] <Upu> evening
[20:36] <normalguy> so from my understanding of the wiki, to launch i'd need - balloon, insulated payload container, tracking device, parachute, cambridgeshire launch site and airspace permissions?
[20:36] <Upu> hey normalguy where are you based ?
[20:37] <normalguy> or is there something im missing/misread?
[20:37] <normalguy> s/w uk
[20:37] <Upu> sounds about right as a list
[20:37] <Dan-K2VOL1> testing
[20:37] <Upu> you're still here Dan-K2VOL1
[20:37] <Dan-K2VOL1> test your stuff as much as possible in the way that it will fly - i.e. in the cold
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> you could launch anywhere, but the cambridge launch sites offer the advantage of less paperwork
[20:37] <Dan-K2VOL1> lol thanks upu
[20:38] <Upu> :)
[20:38] <Upu> yeah getting NOTAMS is hard
[20:38] <fsphil-laptop> almost anywhere anyway (CAA permitting :-)
[20:38] <Upu> anyway break it down normalguy
[20:38] <Upu> start with the "tracking device" i.e flight computer
[20:39] <Upu> if you make one that transmits RTTY via the NTX2 which isn't that hard you have a network of recievers ready to listen in
[20:39] <Upu> do you have experience with programming some sort of microcontroller like the Arduino ?
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC the biggest balloon launch is the GPSL
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> Great Plains Super Launch
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> yea
[20:40] <Upu> I noticed that launch tommorrow with a 3000g balloon and h2
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> but that is based in the USA
[20:40] <fsphil-laptop> holy big balloon batman
[20:40] <normalguy> i'm afraid not, but i'm a fast learner willing to pick it up
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:41] <fsphil-laptop> well, hopefully not holy
[20:41] <normalguy> wow
[20:41] <fsphil-laptop> cause then it wouldn't be a very good balloon
[20:41] <Upu> normalguy well in that case go get an Arduino and go make it make an LED blink
[20:41] <fsphil-laptop> what launch is that Upu?
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> Japan deveolped a cryosampler for obtaining air samples at their station in Antartica
[20:41] <Upu> err there was amail about it
[20:41] <Upu> sec
[20:41] <normalguy> http://www.ladyada.net/learn/arduino/index.html
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> they also had latex balloons, but they used a 4500
[20:41] <Upu> alifornia Near Space Project will launch CNSP-09, K6RPT-11, 3000g H2 (Saturday 9-3) at 7:30 a.m. (PST)
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> seems to have been a special order
[20:41] <Upu> e will stream live video of the fill at 6:30 a.m. and launch at 7:30 a.m. PST (See link below)
[20:41] <fsphil-laptop> aaah
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> Today I found another roll of polythene in the garage.
[20:41] <normalguy> what about using the SPOT?
[20:41] <Upu> http://www.CaliforniaNearSpaceProject.com/ustream.html
[20:41] <fsphil-laptop> seen the email but didn't read it. epic!
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil : YAY ZP making time!
[20:42] Action: Upu high fives fsphil
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> ~40kg*12um
[20:42] <Upu> whats PST GMT -7 ?
[20:42] <fsphil-laptop> I'd sort of stopped reading gpsl messages ;)
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe 25
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> normalguy : thing is that you need to pay quite much for the account
[20:42] <Upu> yeah don't blame you
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> because of the Globalstar uplink they charge a good annual fe
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> *fee
[20:42] <Upu> normalguy you could but it is cheaper and IMHO for this sort of flight better to use an NTX
[20:43] <Upu> you'll be getting a location every 10-12 seconds at 50 baud
[20:43] <normalguy> oh ok fair enough
[20:43] <fsphil-laptop> it's very reassuring knowing where the payload is at all times
[20:43] <normalguy> link to more information?
[20:43] <Upu> It probably seems alittle overwhelming at first
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> And SPOT reportedly isn't that good int erms of its GPS antenna
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> Upu!
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> your big moment :)
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> Especially if it happens to land upside down
[20:43] <Upu> Lunar!
[20:43] <Upu> you link it Lunar_Lander :)
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> normalguy : http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[20:43] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:43] <Upu> normalguy I'd go get a Arduino
[20:43] <Upu> make some LED's flash and stuff
[20:44] <Upu> then feel free to have a look at that tutorial Lunar_Lander has kindly linked
[20:44] <Upu> if you don't have a radio
[20:44] <Upu> see if you can seek our your local HAM club sure they'll be happy to help, normally such a cheerful bunch are HAMS
[20:44] <normalguy> ok, reading through now
[20:45] <normalguy> so i need a HAM licence?
[20:45] <Upu> there are numerous code samples on the WIKI
[20:45] <Upu> no
[20:45] <Upu> recieving you don't need one
[20:46] <fsphil-laptop> you're using a license-exempt module that just happens to be in the middle of a ham band
[20:46] <Upu> however it may help your understanding of the electronics/radio to get one. I did
[20:46] <fsphil-laptop> which is kinda handy tbh
[20:46] <Upu> however reception wise you'll probably need a HAM rig as they are sensitive
[20:46] <normalguy> haha ok, remember im a noob, so what will i be needing? links are appreciated :)
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[20:46] <Upu> FT-817ND is a good rig
[20:47] <Upu> Don't think anyone here will argue with that but in my best BBC accent, other rigs are availble
[20:47] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/yaesu_ft-817nd_transceiver-p-348.html?osCsid=144333f8c9e284c87e241395ba35d6d7
[20:47] <fsphil-laptop> 817 is the best general-purpose amateur rig there is
[20:48] <fsphil-laptop> if you don't think you'll be too into amateur radio it might not be worth it though
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[20:50] <Upu> but break it down, one step at a time
[20:51] <normalguy> i must admit ham isnt my thing, and my budget is tight :\ can you recommend any ones in the <£100 range that would do the same job? its cool if thats not possible, just say :)
[20:51] <Upu> personally I started by buying a GPS chip and linking it to a Arduino
[20:51] <Upu> if you can borrow a rig possible
[20:51] <Upu> also launch may cost £100-£200 in gas and balloon
[20:51] <Upu> each
[20:52] <fsphil-laptop> if you're watchful on ebay, the FT790R will occasionally go for £60 -- but they're not too common
[20:52] <normalguy> thats do-able, £500 not so much!
[20:52] <normalguy> i'll keep an eye :)
[20:52] <Upu> reciever is the biggest expense I've undetaken
[20:53] <Upu> but I use it for other stuff as well now
[20:53] <LazyLeopard> Other approach on the receive side is SDR. Has anyone mentioned the FunCUBE dongle?
[20:53] <normalguy> so, to clarify, for tracking, i'll need an arduino, gps chip and reciever?
[20:53] <normalguy> no, links?
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> Browse the wiki project pages
[20:54] <normalguy> please!
[20:54] <normalguy> (british politness)
[20:54] <normalguy> will do
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> Too tired to rpovide links
[20:54] <Upu> normalguy transmitter
[20:54] <normalguy> fair enough
[20:54] <normalguy> ok, i'll search the wiki for a bit then come back!
[20:54] <Upu> basic "flight computer" is a microcontroller (I use an Ardunio lots of others about) NTX2 transmitter module, temperature sensors and a GPS chip
[20:55] <normalguy> temp sensors?
[20:55] <Upu> your best bet
[20:55] <fsphil-laptop> optional :)
[20:55] <Upu> yeah so we can confirm its bloody cold up there
[20:55] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[20:55] <normalguy> :L
[20:55] <Upu> your best best is check the project pages
[20:55] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:projects
[20:55] <Upu> most people have blogs
[20:56] <Upu> this will give you heaps and heaps of ideas if nothing else
[20:56] <fsphil-laptop> there was a launch in the south west not long ago
[20:56] <Upu> and subscribe to the mailing list
[20:56] <fsphil-laptop> think there's another one coming up soon
[20:57] <normalguy> ooh, i'll try to find it
[20:57] <Upu> Wasn't that Daveke ?
[20:57] <fsphil-laptop> think so
[20:58] <fsphil-laptop> he's launching soon, and willduckworth might have been too
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[20:58] <normalguy> looking into the funcube
[20:59] <Upu> LazyLeopard have you use the funcube ?
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> they're brilliant, but a bit new and untested
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> happy weekend all
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> ttyl
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[21:01] <LazyLeopard> Nope. Until now getting hold of one has been a question of sitting poised with a finger on the "Buy" button waiting for the sale to open...
[21:01] <fsphil-laptop> I seem to have been lucky with that
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[21:01] <fsphil-laptop> got one first go
[21:01] <LazyLeopard> However, with a bit of luck that'll change soon...
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[21:02] <fsphil-laptop> LazyLeopard, you can get them from wsplc now
[21:02] <fsphil-laptop> er, radioworld
[21:03] <LazyLeopard> I remember the howls of anguish from hams when they found out the latest run of however many had sold out in not long at all...
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> lol yep
[21:03] <LazyLeopard> ML&S, I think...
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> looks like they all have it except wsplc
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> but yea, they're a lot easier to get now
[21:03] <fsphil-laptop> I worry that they don't have enough filtering to be reliable
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> for hab chasing
[21:04] <LazyLeopard> SDR is a bit that way generally.
[21:04] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/amsat-uk_funcube_dongle-p-8189.html?osCsid=144333f8c9e284c87e241395ba35d6d7
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> true
[21:04] <normalguy> so i can use this http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 as a transmitter and this http://www.funcubedongle.com/?page_id=286 as a reciever?
[21:05] <Upu> theoretically yes
[21:05] <Upu> Fun Cube does SSB ?
[21:05] <Randomskk> it's direct conversion
[21:05] <Randomskk> your software can do SSB
[21:05] <Upu> gotcha
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> that's all it does technically
[21:05] <Upu> theoretically yes
[21:05] <normalguy> theoretically? is it an untested combination?
[21:05] <Randomskk> nah
[21:06] <Randomskk> people have used a funcube dongle to receive
[21:06] <Randomskk> but it's not really as good as a 'proper' amateur radio, it seems
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> I've used one at 10km range so far
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> worked very well
[21:07] <Randomskk> well, fair enough then
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> that was with the payload on the ground though
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> I couldn't get spectravue working for the last flight I did
[21:07] <Upu> can you plug a Yagi in the fun cube ?
[21:08] <fsphil-laptop> aye
[21:08] <LazyLeopard> ...and it doesn't matter much what sort of receiver you've got if you don't have a reasonable antenna at the front end...
[21:08] <Upu> k
[21:08] <fsphil-laptop> has an sma socket
[21:08] <Upu> ok
[21:08] <Upu> I could plug my mag mount directly into that
[21:08] <fsphil-laptop> would work well that
[21:08] <Upu> how much CPU does that thing need ? Will it work with an Atom ?
[21:09] <fsphil-laptop> if you use it directly with fldigi, not much more than normal
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[21:10] <fsphil-laptop> but I suspect it's not as sensitive that way
[21:11] <fsphil-laptop> be very cool if fldigi could use the whole 96khz bandwidth
[21:11] <fsphil-laptop> you'd never need to retune
[21:13] <normalguy> anyway, i'm going to go now, i'll come back when i've understood as much of the wiki as i can :)
[21:13] <normalguy> probably in a few days haha
[21:13] <fsphil-laptop> there'll be a short exam :)
[21:13] <normalguy> multiple choice please :)
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[21:14] <Upu> think we scared him off ? :)
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[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> XD maaybe
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[21:18] <fsphil-laptop> it's a lot to take in
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS
[21:34] <NigeyS> hey Lunar_Lander
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> btw Upu one question
[21:34] <Upu> as long as its not complex
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> where do you get the wire bridges from that you use in picture 1 of the tutorial?
[21:35] <Upu> Maplins
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> I used breadboard jumper wires but as they stick out, it is a bit messy
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:35] <Upu> was a kit they do
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> are those these small rolls of cable?
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[21:40] <number10> Upu - is launch off this saturday?
[21:41] <Upu> I'm not launching no predictions are lousey
[21:41] <Upu> I want my payload back :)
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> +1
[21:42] <number10> I dont blame you
[21:42] <number10> had not seen recent predictions but those yesterday did not look good
[21:42] <Upu> they are the same
[21:42] <Upu> its not really moved all week
[21:44] <number10> best to wait. is everything up and running on Ava and tested?
[21:44] <Upu> yeah
[21:45] <Upu> tested cold (Spent all night outside @ -8'c)
[21:45] <Upu> tested code repeatidly against live flight data
[21:45] <Upu> etc etc
[21:46] <fsphil-laptop> it's a long time coming this launch
[21:46] <Upu> yeah very long
[21:46] <Upu> I'm keen to get it up there, if its not next weekend I'm away then for a few
[21:46] <fsphil-laptop> I didn't have the patience
[21:46] <Upu> and we are cracking on into October and the bad weather
[21:48] <number10> are you doing Ava from EARS?
[21:49] <Upu> not sure depends if Steve has a free "slot"
[21:49] <Upu> also I spoke to David Miller yesterday
[21:49] <Upu> and we may be getting an EARS style NOTAM for a location closer to me
[21:49] <Upu> just south of Thirsk
[21:50] <number10> so we wont see you and Rob down here anymore then?
[21:50] <Upu> well its a 3 hour drive
[21:50] <Upu> we'd both prefer to launch from up here if possible
[21:50] <number10> Understandable
[21:51] <Upu> we either stay over or have a 3 hour drive before we even start
[21:51] <fsphil-laptop> be nice to have some closer launches
[21:51] <Upu> also we are doing it so fsphil has a chance of recieviing
[21:51] <number10> he likes his mountain
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> I'm half mountain goat
[21:52] <fsphil-laptop> not so much over the winter though :)
[21:53] <Upu> anyway I'm off to shoot something in Black Ops before bed time afk
[21:53] <number10> lol - I am off up to the lake district in 3 weeks - I think taking the receiver will be frouned (sp) upon
[21:53] <Upu> oh yeah number10 I'm up there too :)
[21:53] <number10> walking, I hope Upu!
[21:54] <Upu> ofc
[21:54] <Upu> ok afk
[21:54] <number10> we are staying in keswick
[21:54] <Upu> what week ?
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[21:54] <fsphil-laptop> mini hab conference !
[21:55] <number10> 21st to 30th - just over a week
[21:55] <Upu> I'm in Borrowdale the week before
[21:55] <Upu> I'll leave you a geocache to find
[21:55] <Upu> (pink gaffer)
[21:55] <Upu> :)
[21:55] <Upu> anyway pew pew time
[21:55] <number10> :)
[21:56] <number10> yes cu, I am off now - take care
[21:57] <fsphil-laptop> cya number10
[21:57] <fsphil-laptop> cya Upu
[21:57] <number10> cya fsphil
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[21:57] <fsphil-laptop> so, frosties time
[21:57] <fsphil-laptop> mmm
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> you mean the ones by kelloggs?
[21:58] <fsphil-laptop> that's the one
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:58] <fsphil-laptop> they're above-average!
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> did you see that sparkfun has new "flame" stickers?
[21:58] <fsphil-laptop> are they flammable?
[22:01] <fsphil-laptop> ooh they have bandages
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:03] <fsphil-laptop> I got the pint glass
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> it's nifty
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> nice and solid
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> I want to have a shirt and a hoodie and the glass
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:04] <fsphil-laptop> the safety glasses look nice
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:06] <fsphil-laptop> doesn't beat doc browns glasses though
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[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea :P
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[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> Norway wanted to increase the restrictions of RoHS
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> prohibiting arsenic for instance
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> which would have prohibited importing many semiconductors
[22:20] Action: SpeedEvil points at the CdS cell.
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:23] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... One day they'll push regulation like that, and the average human will be a prohibited import...
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[22:47] Action: SpeedEvil ponders the large pile of TV tuners.
[22:48] Action: SpeedEvil is unsure they won't go to 422.
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> Out of old 'nicamiser' boxes
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: that question on OBEX
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> you need to right profile for the device to be treated as an obex device
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Yes
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> ive found a few BT modules that can be set to an OBEX push device
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Cheaply?
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> yes
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> but not full obex
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Check carefully their specs.
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> think ill forget it
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> its not that important
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Oodles of them say '12ADCs...' - but what tehy actually mean is the chip supports 12 ADCs
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> http://www.genewscenter.com/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=12510&NewsAreaID=2
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> ^insane
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> 61%
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> DOING IT WRONG.
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> (natural gas)
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> But yes - very neat.
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> yeah its kind of insane to use natural gas to generate power
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> the supercritical brayton stuff looks neat.
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> I don't quite understand it - I need to brush up on my thermodynamics.
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> On a sort-of-related matter - I was dissapointed to find that small refrigerator type compressors have a COP of ~1
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.powermag.com/environmental/Researchers-Develop-Supercritical-CO2-Brayton-Cycle-Turbines_3615.html - I wonder if you can boost that with low-temperature steam turbine on the waste heat
[23:10] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Talk on HAB for bioprospecting"
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[23:12] <Laurenceb_> interesting
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[00:00] --- Sat Sep 3 2011