highaltitude.log.20110826

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[00:38] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[08:08] <NigelMoby> Morning
[08:10] <Darkside> \o
[08:11] <m1x10> hello
[08:13] <number10> morning
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[08:18] <m1x10> anyone have a price for the 1500g balloon from hwoyee.com ?
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[08:30] <RocketBoy> they don't make a 1500
[08:30] <RocketBoy> 1600 is their nearest size
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[08:35] <RocketBoy> i think they only seem to make 1500s occasionally like the 1200s) - when they have a specific order for them
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[08:57] <m1x10> mhh
[08:57] <m1x10> they have it on the menu !
[08:59] <RocketBoy> yeah - they stopped production at the beginning of the year
[08:59] <RocketBoy> now just sell the 1600 instead
[09:00] <RocketBoy> even the 1200 is off the menu at the mo as they need a big order to start making them
[09:00] <RocketBoy> so its 1000s or 1600s
[09:01] <SpeedEvil> Special order some 1337s
[09:01] <RocketBoy> nice geometric mean?
[09:05] <RocketBoy> nope that would be a 1265
[09:05] <SpeedEvil> leet
[09:05] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[09:07] <daveake> Geek :)
[09:11] <fsphil> lol
[09:12] <fsphil> I'm just as bad. I always notice when I go for lunch the microwave had 13:37 on it
[09:12] <m1x10> the 1600g can reach 36km !!! that trip will last long!
[09:13] <fsphil> it could get a lot higher than that m1x10 :)
[09:13] <fsphil> Darkside's 40.5km launch was with a 1600g
[09:13] <m1x10> yes but i will have a heavier payload i think
[09:13] <m1x10> 1kg
[09:13] <fsphil> true
[09:14] <fsphil> beware of the float
[09:14] <m1x10> e what can i do!
[09:14] <m1x10> if i buy 1200 it wont go far!
[09:16] <fsphil> it probably won't -- the sun will eventually degrade it and it'll burst
[09:17] <fsphil> but it may float for a bit
[09:17] <fsphil> just make sure your ascent rate is pretty good
[09:17] <m1x10> 3.5ms is good?
[09:17] <m1x10> m/s
[09:17] <fsphil> I'd aim for higher
[09:17] <fsphil> 5/ms
[09:17] <fsphil> 5m/s even
[09:18] <m1x10> to reach 34km with hwoyee-1200 rate is 4.6m/s
[09:19] <fsphil> that's not bad
[09:19] <m1x10> ok, with hwoyee-1600 payload 1kg and 36km peak rate is 6m/s
[09:20] <m1x10> Time to Burst: 99 min
[09:20] <fsphil> remember the slower the ascent, the further away it's going to drift
[09:20] <fsphil> and the more likely it is to float
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[09:20] <m1x10> oh that float again
[09:20] <fsphil> yea :)
[09:20] <m1x10> so what to do ?
[09:20] <fsphil> these new balloons seem to like it
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[09:20] <fsphil> stick with the 5m/s ascent
[09:21] <m1x10> with 1200g?
[09:21] <fsphil> yea. it's a good start anyway
[09:21] <m1x10> :(
[09:21] <fsphil> you want higher than 34km? :)
[09:22] <fsphil> none of my launches have got that high
[09:22] <m1x10> yes!
[09:22] <fsphil> lol
[09:22] <fsphil> it's risky
[09:22] <fsphil> if you want the payload back
[09:22] <m1x10> im doing that all my life now, i spent all my money here, at least i want some good result!
[09:23] <fsphil> visually the difference between 33km and 36km is probably very little
[09:23] <m1x10> are you sure?
[09:23] <m1x10> all my thoughts are on the pictures
[09:24] <fsphil> I don't think any balloons that have gone that high have carried a camera yet?
[09:24] <m1x10> i have seen pics from 35km
[09:24] <m1x10> (i think)
[09:24] <fsphil> where they any better?
[09:25] <daveake> For my "pictures" launch I'm aiming at 32km
[09:26] <daveake> 950g payload, 100g Hwoyee
[09:26] <fsphil> +0 :)
[09:26] <daveake> 1000g
[09:26] <daveake> Damn keybod
[09:26] <fsphil> haha
[09:27] <fsphil> yea I was really happy with 32km
[09:27] <daveake> Reserving the 1600g for the smaller (100g) payload
[09:27] <fsphil> oooh another record attempt?
[09:27] <m1x10> ok ok
[09:27] <m1x10> i think 1200g will be ok for first experience
[09:27] <daveake> Might be :)
[09:28] <m1x10> Burst Altitude: 34000 m Ascent Rate: 4.61 m/s Time to Burst: 123 min
[09:28] <daveake> Those are fine
[09:29] <m1x10> i need the batteries to last at least 4hrs
[09:29] <daveake> My one and only launch so far reached just over 30km and I have some good pictures from that height. Ascent rate and time were about what you've got there. Payload was 1kg and the balloon was a 1000g Totex
[09:30] <m1x10> and we know the descent rate?
[09:30] <daveake> For mine? Quick. :)
[09:31] <m1x10> descent rate depends on what?
[09:31] <m1x10> parachute and payload weight?
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[09:31] <daveake> Both of those, plus how much latex stays attached and what happens to said latex ...
[09:31] <fsphil> and if the parachute deploys
[09:31] <daveake> That too
[09:31] <m1x10> do we have some chart with parachute sizes and payload weights?
[09:31] <fsphil> it can sometimes get tangled
[09:32] <daveake> Mine did. 133 turns IIRC
[09:32] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:parachute_sizing_chart
[09:32] <m1x10> I guess I need a high descent rate too ?
[09:32] <daveake> Next time I'll have more sensible line lengths, and a swivel
[09:33] <m1x10> i already got swivel :)
[09:33] <fsphil> hadie2 descended quite slowly. 500g payload with 24" chute
[09:33] <fsphil> it crossed most of england on the parachute
[09:34] <m1x10> do we have some numbers?
[09:34] <daveake> Mine was a 48" chute and 1kg payload. Should have been slow too. 720g of the balloon came down with it
[09:34] <m1x10> habhub asks for descent rate in m/s
[09:35] <daveake> m1x10 see that chart. Numbers on there.
[09:35] <daveake> or maybe not
[09:35] <m1x10> it does not say m/s
[09:35] <m1x10> just fast and slow
[09:35] <daveake> Indeed
[09:36] <daveake> I forgot
[09:36] <jcoxon> The upper of these represents a decent speed of 3.5m/sec (approx. 11.5ft/sec), the lower a decent speed of 4.5m/sec (approx. 15ft/sec).
[09:38] <m1x10> who's the upper and lower ?!
[09:38] <jcoxon> the line
[09:38] <jcoxon> its all in the text above the graph
[09:39] <m1x10> i dont get some language stuff there
[09:39] <m1x10> anyway
[09:42] <jcoxon> the fast line is 4.5m/s
[09:42] <jcoxon> the slow line is 3.5 m/s
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[09:53] <m1x10> so for 1kg payload and 4.5m/s rate i need a 0.8m chute?
[09:57] <RocketBoy> more like 1m
[09:57] <m1x10> 1m ok
[09:57] <jcoxon> morning RocketBoy
[09:57] <jcoxon> i'm managing to get a bit more data
[09:58] <RocketBoy> oh right - cool
[09:58] <RocketBoy> where from?
[09:58] <jcoxon> well i added the strings that g4fev posted on irc
[09:58] <RocketBoy> :-)
[09:58] <m1x10> Any online parachute stores ?
[09:58] <jcoxon> and also looking through the data you can see where the time is missing 1 char
[09:58] <jcoxon> and its quite obvious what it should be
[09:58] <jcoxon> i appreciate its not scientific
[09:58] <daveake> Online parachute store? <cough> RocketBoy <cough>
[09:59] <RocketBoy> http://randomaerospace.co.uk/
[09:59] <daveake> Other vendors may be available
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[09:59] <RocketBoy> m1x10: and hwoyee balloons
[09:59] <m1x10> RocketBoy prive!
[09:59] <RocketBoy> which are due in about a week
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[10:05] <fsphil> jcoxon, you didn't happen to record the signal?
[10:07] <GW8RAK> RocketBoy, am I right in thinking the Hwoyee balloons are less well detailed than the Totex ones in terms of burst altitudes?
[10:07] <jcoxon> fsphil, no
[10:08] <RocketBoy> GW8RAK: yes - thats party why I'm trying to build up some burst data on the wiki
[10:09] <GW8RAK> Okay, I'm going to start spending money next month and for a first flight want to reduce uncertainty.
[10:10] <earthshine> mornin'
[10:11] <fsphil> GW8RAK, bring a chain saw
[10:11] <GW8RAK> But I do have a boat fsphil
[10:12] <fsphil> very sweet
[10:12] <fsphil> hopefully you won't need it
[10:12] <fsphil> oooh
[10:12] <fsphil> launch from the sea!
[10:12] <m1x10> fsphil no 1200g ballons exist
[10:12] <m1x10> :(
[10:12] <futfutfut> Morning, just seen James' flight path. It doesn't look like it ditched in the sea. I take it that either the signal failed or became too weak?
[10:13] <fsphil> faded too much to decode
[10:13] <fsphil> possibly faulty antenna
[10:13] <fsphil> I wonder if it took off again this-morning when the sun came up
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[10:14] <GW8RAK> Does anyone know if these weak signal payloads are due to poor aerials, poor connections to the aerial or something further back in the RF chain?
[10:14] <GW8RAK> Such as low power output from the NTX2?
[10:15] <fsphil> in my case it was definitely a faulty antenna
[10:15] <RocketBoy> i'd imagine its the antenna
[10:15] <RocketBoy> never known a NTX2 to go low power
[10:15] <fsphil> I had done range tests with the very same ntx2 before and it was much stronger
[10:16] <fsphil> infact it was the same ntx2 I used on my very first flight
[10:16] <RocketBoy> I recommend an inverted groundplane as just about optimal for what we do
[10:16] <GW8RAK> Again trying to reduce "sub optimal" performance, I was considering measuring output and field strength in the shack and then repeating before launch to identify any faults.
[10:16] <fsphil> you can do that?
[10:17] <LazyLeopard> ...so the next question's likely to be "what went wrong with the antennas in these cases?".
[10:17] <RocketBoy> construction
[10:17] <fsphil> <--- really bad soldering
[10:17] <GW8RAK> Once I get the soldering iron to work and finish a half built project, I can measure down to sub micro watt levels
[10:18] <fsphil> <---- or it fell off after launch
[10:18] <LazyLeopard> Oops!
[10:18] <jcoxon> antennas are suprisingly difficult
[10:18] <jcoxon> they are difficult to truely test long range
[10:18] <jcoxon> and are often on the bottom of payloads
[10:18] <jcoxon> so get bent when preping for launch etc
[10:18] <futfutfut> i take it that a wind vein on the payload and a yagi pointing in the right direction wouldn't work?
[10:19] <RocketBoy> did you use hot gle gun melt on the antenna yesterday jcoxon?
[10:19] <jcoxon> yeah to seal it up
[10:19] <RocketBoy> just wondering about that from a dilectric loss POV
[10:19] <jcoxon> yeah thats a point
[10:19] <jcoxon> the true conclusion is that the best antenna is made purely of coax
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[10:20] <jcoxon> strip out the shield to make your radials
[10:20] <fsphil> it's invincible :)
[10:20] <fsphil> but a pain to make
[10:21] <RocketBoy> jcoxon: yeah thats what I do - thin PTFE co-ax
[10:22] <RocketBoy> actually I have a set of radials that screw on now - I just fold the braiding back over the sheath and screw on the radials
[10:23] <RocketBoy> trim the centre to the right length and away you go
[10:24] <RocketBoy> i'll do a pic later - off to a boring garden centre now - earning brownie points for tomorrow
[10:24] <jcoxon> whats happening tomorrow?
[10:24] <jcoxon> :-)
[10:24] <RocketBoy> lanch from ears
[10:24] <jcoxon> oh right
[10:24] <jcoxon> cool
[10:25] <RocketBoy> probably about 10:00 - let u know more later
[10:25] <futfutfut> RocketBoy: I'll hopefully be able to help track it
[10:26] <RocketBoy> cool - that would be appreciated - probaly going to need a load of listeners - 2 payloads
[10:26] <futfutfut> No problem.
[10:26] <futfutfut> RocketBoy: Are you still using PIC chips for your flight computers?
[10:26] <RocketBoy> yep
[10:28] <futfutfut> Would it be possible borrow some of your code at some point. I can build PIC boards far easier than AVR due to a friend using PIC chips. Don't worry if its not shareable. I'd completely understand (Neil here BTW)
[10:28] <LazyLeopard> RocketBoy: Announce it on the email list sooner rather than later, please. ;)
[10:28] <fsphil> oooh, can test the funcube dongle
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[10:29] <RocketBoy> BBL
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[10:33] <jgrahamc> I assume that nothing more was heard from pico last night...
[10:34] <fsphil> not a peep
[10:34] <fsphil> there's a small chance it's in the air again
[10:35] <jgrahamc> again or still?
[10:36] <Darkside> the batteries would have died by now
[10:36] <jcoxon> nah
[10:36] <jcoxon> 35hrs of batts
[10:36] <Darkside> wow
[10:36] <Darkside> what the hell did you use?
[10:37] <jcoxon> well 2x lithium aas
[10:37] <jcoxon> i manage to test them indoors for that long
[10:37] <Darkside> wow
[10:37] <jcoxon> there is some power saving as well
[10:37] <Darkside> your payload must draw fuck all current
[10:38] <jgrahamc> I believe those were Georg Ohm's exact words on writing down his law
[10:38] <jcoxon> okay - so i've got data to say that we have the first 9 minutes of float
[10:38] <jgrahamc> That's cool.
[10:39] <jcoxon> shame we couldn't get more
[10:42] <jcoxon> i've also added the last know point of the payload on to the map
[10:42] <jcoxon> though don't look at hte altitude graph now
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[10:50] <m1x10> ping fsphil
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[10:55] <fsphil> oooh that tickles
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[10:58] <Darkside> hehe
[10:58] <Darkside> our GPS is moving at 6KM/s while at 100km altitude
[10:58] <Darkside> or so it thinks
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> That's the space rated one I assume?
[11:02] <daveake> and attached to the space shuttle
[11:03] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: yes
[11:03] <Darkside> surprisingly it didn't cost much more than the non-space-rated one
[11:05] <SpeedEvil> Found any normal GPSs that forget abou thte limits?
[11:06] <russss> Darkside: did you have to jump through many hoops to get hold of it?
[11:06] <SpeedEvil> Given that so may screw up AND, not OR, ...
[11:06] <Darkside> russss: not really
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[11:09] <jtp> any bright sparks know where all the regulations regarding balloon design can be found from the caa? I'd like to use a non standard meteorological balloon...
[11:11] <SamSilver_> jtp: what country?
[11:11] <jtp> uk
[11:12] <SamSilver_> http://www.caa.co.uk/ that would be a good start
[11:13] <SamSilver_> but asking here could be quicker
[11:13] <jtp> i looked all over the caa site but can only seem to find "captive unmanned gas balloons" and hot air balloons
[11:14] <SamSilver_> I find the caa here (South Africa) quite helpfull
[11:14] <SamSilver_> "free unmanned balloons"
[11:17] <jtp> tried that too still no luck!
[11:18] <LazyLeopard> The CAA may refer to weather balloons as sondes
[11:18] <fsphil> they do
[11:19] <fsphil> it's very difficult getting information of their website though
[11:19] <fsphil> out of curiosity, what do you mean by non-standard jtp?
[11:20] <jtp> i'd like to try what is effectively a huge bin bag but not fully inflated
[11:21] <fsphil> if it's smaller than 2m in any direction (including payload) you can launch without permission or a notam
[11:21] <jtp> potentially with the payload inside of it
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[11:21] <jtp> 2m upon takeoff or at full height?
[11:21] <fsphil> at any point
[11:21] <fsphil> a bin bag shouldn't expand much though
[11:22] <jtp> well when i say bin bag i mean a really big bin bag thats only a quarter inflated or so
[11:22] <jtp> and it would be a custom made jobby not actually a bin bag...
[11:22] <fsphil> ahh
[11:23] <fsphil> unless it's huge, I don't think the caa would really care
[11:23] <fsphil> just go through the normal application process
[11:23] <fsphil> I suspect they're be more concerned about the weight
[11:23] <jtp> im thinking of a cylinder thats maybe 500 mm diameter but about 4 or 5 metres tall
[11:24] <jtp> would offer less air resistance as it climbs because it stays just as "thin"
[11:24] <fsphil> you gotta take some pics of that when it's ready :)
[11:24] <jtp> will do should look quite strange!
[11:26] <fsphil> but yea, when making the application they ask for the size of the balloon at launch
[11:27] <fsphil> so if there are potential issues they'll let you know
[11:27] <fsphil> (though maybe not very quickly)
[11:27] <jtp> when i say maximum dimension 5m might flag up a few bells!
[11:28] <jtp> i may apply now, even though hoping for a april launch
[11:28] <fsphil> I always say this: Maximum dimension of balloon: 1.8m at launch, payload suspended 10m below
[11:28] <fsphil> technically the answer to that question is 10m -- the latex balloons get very big in the thin air
[11:29] <jtp> indeed, i'll use some similiar word craft to get permission i think
[11:30] <jtp> perhaps the uninflated portion of the balloon can be equated to suspension 4 m below inflated section at the top
[11:30] <fsphil> I'd just put the real values in there. give a launch size and max size
[11:31] <fsphil> because your max size will be a lot smaller than a latex one
[11:31] <jtp> true true
[11:32] <fsphil> I doubt they'd bother with the size of the balloon unless it was a big ZP balloon
[11:32] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e7393c188190bad8c212eeffb7ea1b8e83349a86
[11:33] <fsphil> sweeet
[11:33] <jtp> cheers fsphil good to know someone reckons it'll get through!
[11:33] <jtp> that prediction is cool!
[11:34] <fsphil> a flight yesterday might have actually made it that far
[11:34] <jtp> is this the picoatlas?
[11:34] <fsphil> yea
[11:35] <jtp> did it make it?
[11:35] <fsphil> nobody knows, the signal was lost out over the north sea
[11:35] <fsphil> but it had started floating - so the odds are fair
[11:37] <Laurenceb> it would have had to have floated for another 2.5hours or so
[11:37] <Laurenceb> from the last reception
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[11:41] <GW8RAK> jtp - was thinking along similar lines to your envelope, but the volume of that size is quite small and does not have a lot of lift.
[11:42] <jtp> yeah - in reality i might have to make it a lot bigger its still really in the first ideas stage
[11:42] <jtp> seeing if it would ever get permission/ expensive materials etc.
[11:42] <jtp> perhaps if i made it 3m diameter and more like 15m tall it could work
[11:43] <GW8RAK> To get the same volume as a spherical envelope, you need it to be very long which equals heavy
[11:43] Action: Elwell looks at the tracker -- cool you got a float
[11:43] <GW8RAK> square law vs cube law
[11:44] <jtp> it is about 10th of the volume at max height
[11:45] <jtp> so it would definitely need a vent so that it didnt burst as it inflated too much
[11:45] <jtp> but remember for a lot of the climb it would have the same volume of helium that a sphereical balloon would, but would have less air resistance
[11:46] <GW8RAK> How fast do you want it to go up?
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[11:47] <SamSilver_> rocket assisted :p
[11:48] <jtp> maybe reach 15 miles in 3 hours or so
[11:49] <jtp> so 2.5 m/s
[11:49] <GW8RAK> You don't need a streamlined shape for that lift rate
[11:50] <jtp> 2.5 m/s on average
[11:50] <jtp> i'd like it to be really quick for the first few miles
[12:01] <GW8RAK> afk
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[12:02] <m1x10> any online store for kaymonts 1500g ?
[12:03] <m1x10> Rocketboy does not have
[12:07] <daveake> Don't get too hung up on the exact size. Just use a 1600 if 1500 is what you think you need. You can always adjust flight time/target altitude a bit with the amount of fill.
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[12:13] <mattltm> Hi all
[12:15] <daveake> Afternoon :)
[12:24] <mattltm> Quiet today
[12:24] <daveake> sshh! people are sleeping ...
[12:25] <mattltm> LA LA LA!!
[12:26] <daveake> :)
[12:27] <daveake> Spent some time last night making a payload box, essentially by taking a large box and making it smaller. About 75% of the original lies in bits on the floor ...
[12:27] <mattltm> daveake: Did you use a gsm module for your flight?
[12:27] <mattltm> lol.
[12:28] <daveake> I had a GPS/SMS tracker for backup.
[12:28] <mattltm> an all in one unit?
[12:28] <daveake> Yes.
[12:28] <mattltm> Ahh, right.
[12:29] <daveake> I was going to use a T39m phone connected to the Arduino, but ran out of memory when I added the SMS code. Didn't have time to switch to a larger processor.
[12:29] <daveake> I also have a Wavecom SMS module I could use.
[12:29] <mattltm> I'm looking for an gsm module to add to an arduino.
[12:30] <mattltm> this one looks simple - http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9607
[12:30] <daveake> You're welcome to borrow my Wavecom. Also, the Siemens TC35 is very common
[12:30] <daveake> Saves on the wiring!
[12:30] <mattltm> Its for a demo prototype of a product I am building so I don't want to use a mobile phone :)
[12:30] <daveake> :)
[12:31] <daveake> Check to see how it accepts text messages. Some (like my T39m) use "PDU" format which is more work.
[12:32] <mattltm> This one looks ok too - http://www.open-electronics.org/products-page/
[12:32] <daveake> It's basically 7-bit ASCII squeezed so 8 characters fit in 7 bytes.
[12:32] <mattltm> I have played with an ericson last week using AT commands.
[12:33] <daveake> Halfway there then :)
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[12:58] <jcoxon> question time
[12:59] <jcoxon> if i've found a 434 transmitter which can do programmable tx steps of min 15khz
[12:59] <jcoxon> does that mean that on the waterfall the 2 signals will have a shift of 1500hz?
[12:59] <GW8RAK> No, 15000Hz
[13:00] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[13:00] <GW8RAK> Life is never that simple
[13:00] <Darkside> a lot of those 434MHZ FSK chips have a way too wide shift
[13:00] <Darkside> usually >5KHz
[13:01] <jcoxon> shame really
[13:04] <jcoxon> okay
[13:04] <jcoxon> so a different module's data sheet says
[13:04] <jcoxon> modulation deviation 0.625khz
[13:07] <Randomskk> 625Hz. doable.
[13:10] <jcoxon> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10153
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[13:13] <Randomskk> for $11, worth a shot.
[13:13] <Randomskk> I maintain that using big, expensive, entirely analogue NTX2s isn't the best way to go forward
[13:13] <Randomskk> there are tons of sexy new integrated radios hitting the market
[13:13] <jcoxon> i look forward to your talk!
[13:13] <Randomskk> hehe
[13:14] <Randomskk> I'd better give that radio some TLC and make sure it's doing something useful by then :P
[13:14] <jcoxon> i'm basically thinking about a pico payload
[13:14] <jcoxon> with a spot onboard...
[13:14] <Randomskk> mm, we're thinking along some of the same lines
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[13:14] <jcoxon> as yesterdays flight - if we had spot we'd be laughing
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[13:15] <Randomskk> yea
[13:15] <jcoxon> but 4 tx's an hour is a bit slow especially if you are watching for float
[13:15] <Randomskk> the lower altitude really makes DL harder.
[13:15] <Randomskk> what were you guys listening with?
[13:15] <Randomskk> almost need to chase to maintain radio contact, even without planning recovery
[13:15] <jcoxon> so i was thinking about adding a super cheap radio
[13:16] <jcoxon> Randomskk, http://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/6080623832/in/contacts/
[13:16] <jcoxon> :-)
[13:17] <Randomskk> haha oh, nice
[13:17] <jcoxon> still a challenge
[13:17] <Randomskk> was it more a fault with the antenna this time then?
[13:17] <jcoxon> yeah i think so
[13:17] <W0OTM> Howdy
[13:17] <jcoxon> we struggled early on
[13:17] <jcoxon> no hints when testing
[13:17] <Randomskk> annoying
[13:18] <jcoxon> but then its difficult to properly test without launching
[13:18] <Randomskk> indeed
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[13:20] <jcoxon> what was a bit annoying with the long range rtty was that if we did morse we could have ear decoded it
[13:20] <jcoxon> as we could hear the rtty
[13:20] <jcoxon> but not decode it
[13:20] <Randomskk> :(
[13:20] <Randomskk> we need a better decoder :P
[13:20] <Darkside> FEC would be nice
[13:20] <jcoxon> i'm tempted to add morse as the preamble
[13:21] <Darkside> jcoxon: or have 2 transmitters
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[13:21] <jcoxon> wb8elk does this - he does morse first of just altitude
[13:21] <jcoxon> then does his digital modes
[13:21] <Darkside> one detuned by, say, 10KHz
[13:21] <Randomskk> I wonder if just recording the audio and making a really big waterfall, you could decode it by eye
[13:21] <jcoxon> Darkside, trying to keep the mass down
[13:21] <Randomskk> better than dl-fldigi anyway. your eye could sync to the bit period
[13:21] <Darkside> jcoxon: another NTX2 isn't that much heavier
[13:22] <Randomskk> needs 2x battery as well though
[13:22] <Darkside> Randomskk: i think you might have problems with temporal vs frequency resolution
[13:22] <Randomskk> I guess that's always the problem with fft changing signals, really
[13:22] <Darkside> yup
[13:22] <Randomskk> but there are clearly better ways of decoding rtty than dl-fldigi's histogram binning with matching filters
[13:23] <Darkside> like?
[13:23] <jcoxon> what would people think about a pico payload with a SPoT + a CW/Hell tx'er
[13:24] <Darkside> and make a custom page where people can feed in a sequence number and a lat/long/alt
[13:25] <Darkside> or try OCR on the HELL signal
[13:25] <Darkside> :P
[13:25] <jcoxon> previously when we did morse it never really ended well
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[13:25] <jcoxon> just cause you lost the digital aspect and the auto uploading
[13:25] <Darkside> i'm considering using BASE32 encoded data via morse for a tiny temp sounde
[13:25] <Hibby> mutter moan grumble
[13:25] <Hibby> goodbye, work savings
[13:25] <Randomskk> Darkside: Laurenceb suggests sliding filters to better sync to the bit period, eroomde is playing with bayesian inference based on detecting the frequency change instead of binning histograms
[13:26] <Randomskk> Hibby: :(?
[13:26] <Randomskk> Hibby: travel agent problems still?
[13:26] <Hibby> yeah
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[13:26] <Darkside> Randomskk: thts cool
[13:26] <Hibby> they can't book me on a flight to glasgow from heathrow for less than 165 gbp
[13:26] <Randomskk> jcoxon: computers seem a bit crap at decoding morse. could do really really slow rtty, though - like at 2baud a human could decode it by hand
[13:26] <Hibby> which utterly baffles me, so I told them to get me back to the UK for 135 and I'll take it from there
[13:27] <Hibby> it's taken since the 7th August to get to this stage.
[13:27] <daveake> Hibby does it have to be Heathrow? Easyjet fly Glasgow to Gatwick I think
[13:27] <Randomskk> :|
[13:27] <jcoxon> Randomskk, the reason is that the cheap tx's aren't going to do fsk
[13:27] <Hibby> daveake: I'm flying from America on a through-ticket
[13:27] <Darkside> yeah
[13:27] <daveake> OK
[13:27] <Darkside> i'm looking at those $4 ASK transmitters
[13:27] <Darkside> if they can do morse well enough thts what i'll use
[13:27] <Darkside> i wanted to try 40bpm morse
[13:27] <Hibby> I'm just baffled at the complete incompetence of the staff, sadly :/
[13:28] <Hibby> anyway.
[13:28] <Randomskk> meh, I think there's probably a good compromise to be found between morse and rtty, too
[13:29] <Hibby> mrtty rttorse?
[13:29] <jcoxon> i need to have a play with the SPoT - see how much it weighs stripped down
[13:30] <jcoxon> cause the ntx2 doesn't weigh that much
[13:30] <jcoxon> right time to get food
[13:33] <SamSilver_> Oliva Data decodes when you cant even hear the sound
[13:36] <SamSilver_> olivia
[13:36] <Randomskk> PSK modes will decode below the noise floor too
[13:36] <SamSilver_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_MFSK
[13:36] <Randomskk> RTTY is like, decades old :P
[13:37] <Randomskk> in fact it predates shannon's work
[13:37] <Hibby> psk transmission using an ntx-2 though?
[13:38] <Randomskk> tricky, if you can do it at all
[13:38] <Randomskk> but there are other radios, with like, integrated radio chips instead of entirely discrete components :P
[13:39] <Hibby> true enough
[13:39] <Hibby> regulation compliant?
[13:39] <Hibby> or just DIY (tm)
[13:39] <Randomskk> regulation compliance is another tricky area
[13:40] <Randomskk> technically most of the devices we'd use can be self notified as far as CE is concerned
[13:40] <Randomskk> so you don't actually need to get it tested, but you will take the hit if it's found in violation
[13:40] <Randomskk> however all of that only concerns selling the things
[13:40] <Randomskk> as far as I can tell, personal operation of devices that operate in the license exempt bands should be okay
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[13:41] <Hibby> power++
[13:41] <Hibby> because, really, who else is listening?
[13:41] <Hibby> :p
[13:41] <Randomskk> ofcom, and ansty hams :P
[13:42] <Randomskk> antsty I guess.
[13:42] <Hibby> well, all the antsy hams up here complain that ofcom don't listen
[13:42] <Darkside> haha
[13:42] <Hibby> and no one uses 70cm, because, well, all the chat is on 2m
[13:42] <Hibby> :/
[13:43] <Darkside> interesting
[13:43] <Darkside> theres little 2m use around here
[13:43] <Darkside> its mostly 70cm
[13:43] <Darkside> bbl
[13:43] <Hibby> the chat on 2m is worse than very personal diseases
[13:43] <Randomskk> and usually about them
[13:44] <mattltm> lol. Same down here :)
[13:44] <Hibby> nah, up here it's about so and so who's got a radio
[13:45] <Hibby> or so and so is "oan 'eh drugs, ken?"
[13:45] <Hibby> I stick to data, because thre are less weirdos there
[13:45] <Hibby> unless you count me.
[13:46] <Hibby> I rule 70cm with another few guys ~ 9600baud MUDs and BBS all the way!
[13:46] <Hibby> and with my satellite station, it's not like I'm gonna not be heard, even on a few watts
[13:46] <Randomskk> haha seriously, there are still MUDs running on 70cms?
[13:46] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "[UKHAS] Launch from EARS tomorrow."
[13:48] <Darkside> ooh dual launch
[13:48] <Hibby> Randomskk: only us getting excited
[13:48] <Darkside> and me without a yagi
[13:48] Action: Randomskk still plays nethack when bored
[13:48] <Darkside> ive been meaning to get into dwarf fortress
[13:49] <Randomskk> you should try m inecraft
[13:49] <Darkside> ive played minecraft
[13:49] <Randomskk> I got it, played it solid for about four days with friends at uni (on our gigabit lan)
[13:49] <Randomskk> we all realised it would be the end of us
[13:49] <Darkside> yep
[13:49] <Randomskk> and collectively vowed to stop
[13:49] <Randomskk> at least until the holidays
[13:49] <Darkside> lol
[13:49] <Randomskk> but it is now holidays
[13:49] <Randomskk> happily a full time job and things like habitat on the side mean I don't have time to start
[13:49] <Hibby> I don't have a machine powerful enough for minecrafting :(
[13:49] <Hibby> or :) depending on how one looks at it
[13:50] <Randomskk> my machine is gagging for something demanding to run on it
[13:50] <Hibby> I've been obsessively OpenTTDing, however
[13:50] <NigeyS> oo yum yum 12 gig of ram on these servers
[13:50] <Randomskk> I bought it then later stopped really playing games :P
[13:50] <Hibby> even running a multiplayer server
[13:50] <Hibby> my networks are outrageous
[13:50] <Randomskk> we are the coolest people
[13:51] <Hibby> \m/
[13:51] <Hibby> hey, it keeps me away from EVE online
[13:51] <Hibby> that is a time sink
[13:52] <Randomskk> haha oh, god
[13:52] <Randomskk> yea I got an EVE demo
[13:52] <Randomskk> realised that if I paid for it I'd never do anything else with my life
[13:52] <Hibby> for a while this yeark, I was running 2 characters that could pay for themselves.
[13:52] <Hibby> ...
[13:52] <Hibby> if I put enough time into it.
[13:52] <Randomskk> ...
[13:52] <Hibby> and right round about time for me to finish off my paper
[13:52] <Randomskk> a few years back I got into time of defiance which, I think, I like even more than EVE or minecraft or anything
[13:53] <Randomskk> played a two week game
[13:53] <Hibby> I didn't pay for my eve accounts
[13:53] <Randomskk> this was in the holidays
[13:53] <Randomskk> didn't leave the house
[13:53] <Randomskk> two weeks
[13:53] <Hibby> amazing
[13:53] <Randomskk> ate upstairs
[13:53] <Randomskk> it was crazy
[13:53] <Hibby> playstations?
[13:53] <Randomskk> had so much fun, I think
[13:53] <Randomskk> playstations?
[13:53] <Randomskk> if you mean the sony consoles, never had any
[13:54] <Hibby> wrong convo - gaming chat elsewhere also
[13:54] <Randomskk> hehe
[13:54] <Randomskk> oh, man, nearly 3pm :|
[13:54] <Randomskk> this is what I get for staying up stupidly late and then waking up at gone midday
[13:54] <Hibby> 10am here
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[14:01] <Dan-K2VOL> hey hibbu
[14:01] <Hibby> y'all hear about gamestop removing onlive vouchers from some new game release this week, but still selling it at full cost?
[14:01] <Hibby> where the voucher was worth $50
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[14:01] Nick change: mattltm-alt -> mattltm
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[14:06] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh7A8LW-NbE&NR=1
[14:06] <Laurenceb> lolz
[14:15] <Dan-K2VOL> hibby I mean
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[14:19] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL: hola
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[14:41] <UpuWork> three launches this weekend ? Blimey someones on fire
[14:41] <Hibby> sounds painful
[14:42] <jcoxon> 3 launches?
[14:42] <Darkside> three launches now?
[14:42] <Darkside> i thought it was only 2
[14:42] <Darkside> i mean, the doubble launch
[14:42] <UpuWork> Upto 3 launches are planned for Saturday 27th August between 9am and 2pm (BST) depending on Jetstream conditions.
[14:42] <UpuWork> http://randomaerospace.com/balloonrelease/balloonrelease/balloonreleases.html
[14:42] <UpuWork> two going up together ?
[14:43] <Darkside> the ones on the UKHAS list
[14:43] <UpuWork> ok sorry hadn't checked my mail
[14:43] <Darkside> i'll see if i can hear it wth my cross dipole, when it gets to altitude
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[14:44] <UpuWork> looks interesting ok I'll be listening
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[15:14] <m1x10> ok I need GBP 148 to buy chute and balloon!
[15:17] Nick change: Guest91951 -> russss
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[15:21] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Re: Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
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[15:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Talk on HAB for bioprospecting"
[15:28] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Re: Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
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[16:15] <Darkside> well that was a fun walk home
[16:16] <Darkside> raaaaining
[16:16] <Laurenceb> anyone here used arm jtag?
[16:16] <Laurenceb> im trying to work out what pins 1 and 2 do
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[17:03] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Talk on HAB for bioprospecting"
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[17:29] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Talk on HAB for bioprospecting"
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[17:47] <BudgetEngineer> I launched my first High altitude balloon on August 8th, the results were spectacular. SPOT satellite trackers work beautifully as a tracking device.
[17:47] <jcoxon> BudgetEngineer, good work
[17:47] <jcoxon> did the gps work all teh way up?
[17:48] <BudgetEngineer> Not the SPOT, it cut out at about 17-18k feet, but did re-transmit once it descended again.
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[17:48] <jcoxon> yeah thats about right for its specs
[17:49] <BudgetEngineer> it is also remarkably accurate. When it landed, the SPOT website showed it in the middle of a road. We drove down that road and it had landed in the ditch about 3 feet away.
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[17:56] <BudgetEngineer> Some specs on the launch: Land-launch distance: ~105 km | Flight time: 2 hrs 12 min | Peak altitude: 27027 meters | Payload weight: 1500 grams | The camera took 1100 pictures, I had a homemade sensor board with a GPS to get exact location and altitude after the SPOT failed.
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[18:20] <eroomde> evening all
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[18:29] <Laurenceb_> yo
[18:29] <Laurenceb_> anyone know of a switched mode lipo charger ic?
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[18:49] <SpeedEvil> bq24150
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> perfect.. shame about the bga
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[19:03] <Laurenceb_> basically i want to charge with 500ma without incinerating everything
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[19:22] <TimZaman> Good day
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> hmm guess it 'only' 1W max
[19:24] <TimZaman> Omg i was just testing my radio. It didnt work. Turns out, i was attaching a female sma to a reversed (female) sma
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[19:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Robert Darlington "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
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[19:33] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/26/stephen_on_steven/
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> looool
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[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello GW8RAK fsphil m1x10
[19:34] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander
[19:34] <m1x10> hello
[19:34] <m1x10> im closing btw
[19:35] <m1x10> cu later
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[19:41] <Laurenceb_> wait it real ?!
[19:42] Action: Laurenceb_ though it was a troll post on first read
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK : how are you today?
[19:47] <GW8RAK> Fine, my son has sorted out a house for University, so he's leaving home soon :)
[19:47] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> unfortunately no response from that ask a scientist site yet
[19:48] <GW8RAK> Not enough scientists on there?
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> I think they are
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> maybe the question is too special
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> but
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> on the Wikipedia page on the ECD were some references to papers by Dr Lovelock and others
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> and I checked the printouts of these
[19:49] <GW8RAK> I've been clearing some other jobs and activities, so hope to get a launch in fairly soon.
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> the second one has something about "theory of electron capture"
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:50] <GW8RAK> I'll have a read of that Lunar.
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> I have to read that part, maybe it answers our question
[19:50] <GW8RAK> I've had the payload ready to fly for some time, so it's time to get it into the air.
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> see http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021967300908409
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> it's blocked for the publich
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> -h
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> I could download it from uni however and send it to you
[19:51] <GW8RAK> Also been given a GPS module, so I may try for a Pico balloon payload
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds good
[19:51] <GW8RAK> I wonder if that article was one I had years ago. The name sounds familiar
[19:52] <GW8RAK> I haven't looked at the Journal of Chromatography for many years. Used to read every issue.
[19:53] <GW8RAK> I wonder if the technique has developed very far? Data handling yes, but the basic technique?
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> I don`t know, sorry
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> and yes, that sciencedirect page says something about "reprint"
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> no, my fault
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> but the article is from 1974
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> Volume 99
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> pgs. 3-12
[19:55] <GW8RAK> That date is why I think I remember it.
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> maybe you still have that issue
[19:59] <GW8RAK> No, the company I worked for, Philips, had a big library of scientific journals. Probably all thrown away when the sold off and eventually closed.
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[20:00] <GW8RAK> Time for another beer I think.
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> I'll fetch something to drink also
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[20:01] <GW8RAK> Stella hmmmmm :)
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[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> back
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I think there are not many chemical experiments for HAB
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> but please don't hit me if that is wrong
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:16] <GW8RAK> Certainly not with a lightweight payload.
[20:16] <GW8RAK> But it just requires a bit of clever thinking to achieve the results
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[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> that is true
[20:17] <GW8RAK> Or single task missions.
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> I just completed reading a 2010 paper on AirCore
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> that is a 150 m long stainless steel tube which can be flown on balloons or aircraft
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> it is filled with a reference gas, which is then allowed to evacuate while ascending
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> on descending, the AirCore picks up air and is then closed after recovery
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[20:19] <Darkside> 150m long?
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> 2m wide.
[20:20] <GW8RAK> At the other end of the scale, the Sprite satellite project is only 25mm * 25mm on a pcb
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> (probably not)
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> I'd imagine it's a fine coil of hypodermic
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> the tube is rolled up in a coil
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> it weighs 6 kg
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> but they develop a new version that weighs only 2 kg
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[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK : the recent Lake Constance launch had a pressure sensor in the balloon neck
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> that is also a first IIRC
[20:26] <GW8RAK> How is the payload going RocketBoy?
[20:27] <GW8RAK> Didn't know about that one Lunar_Lander
[20:28] <RocketBoy> looking ok - testing now
[20:28] <GW8RAK> 9 o'clock launch?
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> the data is not yet reduced GW8RAK
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> there went another lightning bolt
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[20:31] <griffonbot> Received email: "Yes, it *is* streamed Re: [UKHAS] Talk on HAB for bioprospecting"
[20:31] <GW8RAK> On television, over 100 000 people killed on Indian roads every year!
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:31] <GW8RAK> Frightening
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> but there are horrible videos about Indian Level Crossings
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> people would continue to walk across with the barriers down
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> some would even stand on the second line as the train passes
[20:32] <GW8RAK> Scary
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:32] <GW8RAK> But still want to go cycling in India.
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> but also on the passing train, people were standing in the open doors
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> and doing HAB in India? :)
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[20:48] <Darkside> man i'm tired
[20:48] <Darkside> nn all
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[21:01] <Lunar_Lander4811> back
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[21:01] <Lunar_Lander4811> GW8RAK : sorry had a malfunction
[21:01] <GW8RAK> No problems. I think I need my bed. Done some serious gardening this afternoon.
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander4811> yeah
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> I've been climbing on my roof again.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Installing solar-thermal panel properly.
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[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Riviting buisness.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> And cutting, hammering, blowtorching.
[21:02] <GW8RAK> Had a new tenant next door at work and they install photovoltaic panels on houses.
[21:03] <GW8RAK> Must see if they have any seconds or damaged ones.
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[21:03] Action: SpeedEvil tries to remember where GW8RAK is in the world.
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> Midwest?
[21:04] <GW8RAK> North Wales
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> err
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[21:04] Action: SpeedEvil suffers from a hash collision.
[21:04] <GW8RAK> Midwest US?
[21:04] Action: SpeedEvil sighs at stupid incentives.
[21:04] <GW8RAK> Not quite
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[21:05] Action: SpeedEvil cues his net metering rant.
[21:05] <GW8RAK> Been clearing some space so I should be able to get the yagi vertically oriented for tomorrows launch
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander4811> yea
[21:06] <GW8RAK> Should be interesting to get 21 element on HAB work
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:06] <GW8RAK> Tried it horizontally, but signals were very weak.
[21:07] <GW8RAK> No ground interactions to affect the polarisation
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander4811> does anyone have an idea why a router should suddenly switch off WLAN?
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> Someone changed your password, and is now uploading horse porn.
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[21:08] <GW8RAK> lol
[21:08] <GW8RAK> Don't know what horse porn is and nor do I want to know, but I have a vivid imagination
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander4811> oh well
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander4811> then I have to re-format again
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander4811> though I really hope that this is no hack
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[21:18] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: think ill use a MAX1811 for the lipo charger
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[21:19] <Lunar_Lander4811> brb
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> What's this for - I forgot.
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[21:20] <Laurenceb_> its a datalogging device - stm32 based
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> needs to charge a lipo cell quickly whilst its plugged in
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> without incinerating itself
[21:21] <NigelMoby> Boooom
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> the max1811 is a little larger so looks ok
[21:21] <NigelMoby> :p
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you can't do swappable bats?
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> nope, its a sealed device
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> other problem is it needs to sleep
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> im going for sepic convertor - nick the design off dactyl
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> but the quintessence current is 1ma
[21:23] <SpeedEvil> The what?
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> so im going to stick a 3.0v ldo off the lipo onto the 3.3v rail, and use a gpio pin to the sepic and the ldo off the 3.7v rail
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> its lipo->sepic ->3.7v->ldo->3.3v
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> quiescant?
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> current used by the convertor when nothing is drawn
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> oops
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[21:24] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> so gpio pin turns off the sepic and 'isolates' the 3.3v digital rail
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> You need it to be quiet?
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> by disabling the ldo
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> i need the analogue to be very quiet
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> analogue hangs off the 3.7v rail as well
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[21:25] <Laurenceb_> also the sepic responds slowly
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> so i need some 'reserve' from a tantalum on the 3.7v rail
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you've considered li-po -> ldo -> 3.3?
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> yeah i dont get the full capacity
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> i need 3.3v to run the bluetooth
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> otherwise id use 2.6v or something
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> back
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[21:56] <jcoxon> interestingly if you look at this http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasiv?&#graphs
[21:56] <jcoxon> the graph, the ascent rate gets increases but slows so that the graph carries on along the inital path
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> it comes back to the old ascent rate you mean?
[21:58] <jcoxon> yeah, as in it increases in ascent rate then decreases again in a nearly equal measure
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> that is indeed interesting
[22:07] <RocketBoy> hey jcoxon: - thinking back to yesterday I am left with the feeling that the PicoAtlas antenna radials might have been a bit short?
[22:07] <Upu> evening RocketBoy, going to be interested in the launches tommorrow
[22:08] <Upu> going for slow ascents ?
[22:08] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, 16.5cm iirc
[22:09] <jcoxon> but i did construct it when i wsa on nights
[22:09] <jcoxon> so who knows what happened
[22:10] <RocketBoy> ah ok - just felt they looked a bit sort in comparison with the ground plane I made up today
[22:10] <RocketBoy> but thats has radiials slightly longer than a 1/4 wave
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[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS Dan-K2VOL
[22:23] <Hibby> Dan-K2VOL: hola
[22:24] <natrium42> hibz0r
[22:24] <Hibby> hola all
[22:24] <natrium42> yakshemash
[22:25] <Hibby> aww hell yeah
[22:25] <Hibby> 787 got approved to carry passengers
[22:25] <fsphil> have you been approved to be a passenger yet?
[22:26] Action: Hibby shakes fist
[22:26] <Hibby> yes
[22:26] <Hibby> i'm gonna have to make my own way up the UK though
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[22:27] <Hibby> i got pissed off at being spoken down to
[22:27] <Hibby> so I just told him to get me to london
[22:27] <Hibby> the rest, as they say, is elementary
[22:28] <Hibby> and now I'll be home sooner than the 165 gbp BA flight they were trying to flog me
[22:30] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, you know what - i might be able to miniaturise a SPoT
[22:30] <RocketBoy> ah - spot on :-)
[22:30] <jcoxon> what do you think is the max mass we could carry
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi natrium42 Hibby
[22:30] <RocketBoy> say 150g
[22:31] <jcoxon> well in its complete it weighs 209g
[22:31] <Hibby> hey Lunar_Lander
[22:31] <jcoxon> i'm not in canterbury so can't weigh my stripped down version
[22:31] <RocketBoy> oh right - ripe for weight reduction
[22:31] <jcoxon> its the enormous patch antenna that has the mass
[22:32] <RocketBoy> gps patch?
[22:32] <jcoxon> its a combined patch
[22:32] <RocketBoy> oh right - whats the tx freq
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[22:37] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, 1.6ghz i think
[22:38] <RocketBoy> oh right - close to GPS then - perhaps replace the antenna with something lighter - like a small QFHA
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[22:39] <jcoxon> the issue is that each spot is linked to teh subscription
[22:39] <Upu> so what ascent rate are you going for tommorrow Steve ?
[22:39] <jcoxon> have to be careful when tampering
[22:40] <Upu> annual subs jcoxon ?
[22:40] <jcoxon> yeah
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[22:40] <Upu> they likely to block you ? I assume what you're doing is in violation of the TOS
[22:41] <RocketBoy> upu - not sure yet - going to take a slection of balloons and work somthing out tomorrow on site
[22:41] <jcoxon> Upu, no its more that it you break the device they won't switch it to another
[22:41] <Upu> ok I'll have listen in, probably pick the one on 650 as I have some nasty noise locally on 075 good luck
[22:41] <Upu> Whats the annual subs on a SPOT ?
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[22:42] <jcoxon> 100 gbp
[22:42] <RocketBoy> and about £100 for the spot?
[22:42] <Upu> so not "disposable" then
[22:43] <jcoxon> well
[22:43] <jcoxon> not really
[22:43] <RocketBoy> perhaps there is a cheaper way - what about amateur packet sats
[22:43] <Upu> £7.99 on E-Bay ?
[22:43] <Upu> thats cheap whats the catch
[22:43] <jcoxon> the account
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> Next thing to hack - the protocol/auth. :)
[22:44] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, i don't think the sats come over enough
[22:44] <Daviey> But surely you can re-use an account if you 'lost' the device?
[22:44] <Upu> also would you have the transmission power to get to a satellite ?
[22:45] <jcoxon> Daviey, yeah i suspect you could
[22:45] <jcoxon> but a new device would be required
[22:46] <Daviey> at 8 GBP a go, that isn't so bad.
[22:46] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, Upu, i'm still up for using it for a long duration flight
[22:46] <jcoxon> just need a goo flight
[22:46] <jcoxon> good*
[22:47] <jcoxon> perhaps with an ability to recover it if it fails (if that makes sense
[22:47] <Upu> would be nice, excuse my thickness but if you floated in the jet stream could you get across the atlantic ?
[22:48] <Daviey> bah, spot tracker is only good to 21,300ft.
[22:48] <jcoxon> potentially
[22:48] <Upu> interesting
[22:48] <jcoxon> Daviey, it isn't when we hack it...
[22:48] <Daviey> hah
[22:48] <Hibby> to add to Upu's thickness, do planes and shit not like to fly in the jet stream too?
[22:49] <jcoxon> yeah loads of them
[22:49] <fsphil> planes at least
[22:49] <Hibby> fsphil: what about plane toilets?
[22:49] <Daviey> I've rarely seen shit fly.. but i might have just missed that. :)
[22:49] <RocketBoy> they are drawn to the jetstream like a magnet
[22:49] <fsphil> perhaps if you introduce it to a fan
[22:49] <jcoxon> these balloons float a bit low for jetstream
[22:50] <RocketBoy> ok - i'm off to bed - cu u all in the morning
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> Night!
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[22:50] <Daviey> http://blog.solarcrawler.com/2009/08/03/spot-device-hack/
[22:51] <jcoxon> thats one way
[22:51] <jcoxon> my approach is to disconnect the gps and then fake my own
[22:51] <jcoxon> using fsphil's method we encode lat/lon/alt into lat and lon
[22:53] <jonsowman> NOTAM overlay pulled onto predictor :)
[22:53] <Upu> Oh Rob was asking about that
[22:53] <jonsowman> should all be working
[22:53] <jonsowman> http://habhub.org/predict/
[22:53] <jonsowman> yeah I've only just got round to it, been a busy few days
[22:54] <Upu> excellent should make it easier/scarier
[22:54] <jonsowman> :)
[22:54] <fsphil> "HOT AIR BALLOON FESTIVAL AT 5429N 00613W (MOIRA, LISBURN)."
[22:54] <fsphil> cool
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[22:55] <Hibby> lisburn is the place to be
[22:55] <Upu> right well I'll be back tommorrow for the launches - night all
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> I don't see an overlay.
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Is there a button I'm missing?
[22:55] Action: fsphil was born in lisburn :)
[22:55] Action: SpeedEvil reloads.
[22:56] <jonsowman> SpeedEvil: bottom right of launch card/form
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:58] <Hibby> that's an awful lot of notams
[22:58] <fsphil> I note mine isn't there yet
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Would it make sense to invert the stack? So if you click, you get the nearest surface NOTAM?
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[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Sat Aug 27 2011