highaltitude.log.20110823

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[01:34] <natrium42> hi arhab boys
[01:42] Nick change: shenki_ -> shenki
[02:16] <nickolai> hey natrium42
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[03:40] <natrium42> nickolai: so, what's next? :)
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[07:25] <pratz> hey guys can i ask apex related query on this channel ??
[07:25] <pratz> need a confirmation guys
[07:26] <Upu> morning
[07:27] <Upu> ask away
[07:27] <Upu> as in project Apex ?
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[07:28] <pratz> Upu: i am asking about apex programming language
[07:28] <Upu> ah ok I don't know much about that
[07:28] <Upu> might be someone on here who can assist or possibly a more dedicated channel for it ?
[07:29] <pratz> thanks dude, if anyone know what is the channel for apex programming language , please let me know
[07:30] <Upu> try /list apex
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[08:08] <Elwell> or even /msg alis list *apex*
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[08:31] <daveake> fsphil: I finally appeased the Lassed gods
[08:31] <daveake> Just don't ask me how :)
[08:31] <daveake> Lassen*
[08:31] <number10> what was problem daveake?
[08:31] <Darkside> he had to sacrifice a goat
[08:31] <daveake> Yep
[08:32] <daveake> But it was nice on the BBQ
[08:33] <daveake> I tried a few serial port settings trying to get it to change back to TSIP, followed by cold resets, but nothing worked.
[08:34] <daveake> Then it sprang into life after a power cycle
[08:34] <daveake> So now it's happily chatting to the Trimble monitor program in TSIP
[08:34] <Darkside> heh
[08:34] <Darkside> ok time to head to uni
[08:34] <fsphil> daveake, how?
[08:34] <daveake> Instead of NMEA on both ports
[08:35] <fsphil> oooh power cycle
[08:35] <fsphil> the old turn it off and on again trick
[08:35] <daveake> Someone mentioned putting a 100k pullup on the Rx line, so I did that, which is why I power cycled it
[08:35] <daveake> I'm pretty sure the power cycle was the key, not the resistor
[08:36] <daveake> I'll have a play later, when I'm back home
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[08:39] <number10> I am not familier with the Lassen - I notice on roberts icurus scematic he does not connect up to the GPS rx line - does he configure it before putting in circuit do you know - or does it not need any configuration http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/Icarus-sch.pdf
[08:41] <daveake> Well, either he uses the default config (which means no GPRMC message, and not in flight mode) or he configures it before adding to the circuit.
[08:42] <daveake> Latter I would think.
[08:42] <daveake> He's got a 100k pullup for both Rx lines, as recommended in the manwell
[08:43] <fsphil> those are just to stop the serial lines from floating
[08:43] <fsphil> and potentially generating random commands
[08:43] <daveake> Indeed
[08:44] <daveake> At the moment I just have it connected to a USB-TTL converter, set to run at 3V3.
[08:44] <daveake> I'm using pin headers to select between the 2 serial ports
[08:45] <daveake> fsphil the Lassen has enough trouble seeing real commands lol
[08:46] <number10> cheers guys
[08:48] <daveake> FYI port 1 (labelled "A" in the diagrams, just to confuse) is normally used for configuration, and port 2 (B) for NMEA data. However the unit can be told to switch either port to any protocol or baud rate, which is where it can all go a bit pear-shaped
[08:49] <daveake> I ended up with both sending NMEA, though I'd swear on the Lassen's grave that I never told it to do that :)
[08:50] <number10> lol - What made you decide to go for the lassen
[08:50] <daveake> Good question
[08:50] <daveake> Low power
[08:53] <daveake> Also the antenna is separate so I can connect an external antenna for testing
[08:53] <m1x10> well
[08:53] <m1x10> someone help
[08:53] <m1x10> fsphil
[08:54] <daveake> btw, one of my customers has a GPS re-transmitter which means they don't all have to be near a window for testing GPS stuff
[08:54] <m1x10> ping
[08:54] <m1x10> ping fsphil
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[08:55] <Darkside> hmm
[08:55] <Darkside> i wonder when the reg story will come out
[08:55] <Upu> morning Darkside
[08:55] <Upu> been keeping an eye out
[08:56] <daveake> Someone's after his 15 minutes of fame ;)
[08:56] <Darkside> i think lester will send me an email first
[08:56] <Darkside> daveake: :P
[08:57] <m1x10> my hab will be transmitting 10mw. with a directional yagi with 6dbi gain on the ground will be sufficient to track the hab when it will on the big heights?
[08:57] <Upu> m1x10 you won't even need a Yagi if you're following it ?
[08:57] <Darkside> m1x10: a 1/4 wave vertical will be enough to track it at peak altitude
[08:58] <daveake> Mine was 20-25 miles away and a mag mount was just fine
[08:58] <m1x10> im on 144.8mhz
[08:58] <Upu> Yagi is good for locating it on the ground though
[08:58] <Upu> my magmount does 2mtr and 70cms
[08:58] <Upu> so don't see why not
[08:58] <m1x10> magmount?
[08:58] <m1x10> link?
[08:58] <Upu> 1 sec
[08:59] <m1x10> i will have the ground antenna looking at the sky i suppose
[08:59] <daveake> This is mine, I think - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2m-70cm-144-430MHz-Micro-Mount-Ham-Radio-Mobile-Antenna-/390334257030?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item5ae1bc1786#ht_764wt_908
[08:59] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/mr77s-diamond-2m70cm-50cm-long-black-metal-whip-magmount-p-2055.html?osCsid=0e5f0176365195c11ca4965051e90dee
[08:59] <fsphil> pong m1x10
[09:00] <m1x10> phil
[09:00] <Upu> daveake is better as it has a BNC on it so it plugs directly into the front of FT-817 I had to get an adaptor
[09:00] <m1x10> upu and daveake those are tinies
[09:00] <m1x10> fsphil
[09:00] <m1x10> listen
[09:01] <daveake> I've often been told that
[09:01] <m1x10> my hab will be transmitting 10mw at 144.8. with a directional yagi with 6dbi gain on the ground will be sufficient to track the hab at high peaks?
[09:02] <m1x10> i called a guy here that sells antennas and he told me i will need .5watts to transmit in order to catch that signal from high peaks
[09:02] <daveake> m1x10 when we chased mine, we lost the signal below 4km. We headed for the last known location and then briefly got a blip via the mag mount. We stopped and I used the yagi to get a better signal, which decoded fine so we got a final location. At that point it was 3 miles away and on the ground.
[09:03] <daveake> When we got close, as Darkside said, the yagi was great for direction finding
[09:04] <Upu> tinies ?
[09:04] <fsphil> the mag mount I chased with was only about 40cm long
[09:04] <fsphil> never lost the signal, even underneath the payload
[09:04] <Upu> yeah I got a really strong signal on mine when chasing those 2 payloads
[09:04] <fsphil> this is mine: http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456
[09:04] <fsphil> got two cause it was cheap
[09:05] <m1x10> so you all tell me that with those small magmounts i can catch my 10mw 144.8 signal from 35km on the sky?
[09:06] <daveake> If I'd known the magmount was going to work so well, I'd have headed out in the chase car much earlier instead of staying at home watching upu and fsphil track it for me ;)
[09:07] <Upu> m1x10 yep no reason at all why not
[09:07] <m1x10> but you all transmit on 430mhz so your receiver gain is much more
[09:07] <m1x10> 430MHz 6.15dBi
[09:07] <m1x10> 144MHz 2.15dBi
[09:07] <number10> I thanks for the info about the lassen daveake
[09:08] <daveake> no problem
[09:08] <Upu> its line of sight, I don't have the experience with doing it on 2 meters but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work
[09:08] <fsphil> you're doing aprs m1x10?
[09:08] <daveake> m1x10 I had a very strong signal via magmount at 25 miles from the balloon.
[09:08] <Upu> try it, go put your payload somewhere high and then go drive off
[09:08] <number10> next ballon launch near cambridge I will try following with car - not too sure if I will connect to the net though
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[09:09] <Darkside> heyyy
[09:09] <m1x10> fsphil: yes
[09:09] <fsphil> hiya stars-project
[09:09] <Upu> hello there :)
[09:09] <stars-project> Hi guys!
[09:09] <Darkside> we were wondering when someone from STARS woudl rock up here
[09:09] <Upu> Jon Green ?
[09:09] Action: stars-project grins. Jon Green here
[09:09] <Upu> welcome aboard :)
[09:09] <Darkside> cool
[09:10] <Darkside> welcome to the 40km high club :D
[09:10] <stars-project> Thanks! Gather you saw the Register write-up.
[09:10] <Darkside> O WAIT
[09:10] <Darkside> :P
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[09:10] <Upu> you're the only one in it Darkside :)
[09:10] <Darkside> Upu: haha
[09:10] <Darkside> damn straight
[09:10] <Upu> yep interesting read
[09:10] Action: fsphil whaps Darkside :p
[09:10] <Darkside> give me a few months and i'll be in the 41km high club
[09:10] <Darkside> ;P
[09:10] <daveake> :)
[09:10] <Upu> stars-project is going with same balloon and hydrogen Darkside :)
[09:11] <fsphil> eek
[09:11] <stars-project> Tnx. Also tnx for the UKHAS site - hugely helpful.
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[09:11] <stars-project> Hopefully we can drive some traffic in that direction
[09:11] <fsphil> won't the warning sign weigh yo udown? :)
[09:11] <Darkside> Upu: yeah but a heavier payload
[09:11] <Upu> Welcome Jon, its a collaborative thing so if you feel you can add to it please feel free
[09:11] <Darkside> stars-project: what tracker are you using?
[09:12] <stars-project> Three-way: SPOT, plus 434MHz downling, plus mobile at low alts
[09:12] <Darkside> cool, standard UKHAS stuff on 434MHz?
[09:12] <stars-project> Oops: s/ling/link
[09:12] <stars-project> That's the idea, yes
[09:12] <Darkside> awesome
[09:12] <Darkside> its a really good idea to do that
[09:12] <Darkside> i was relying on it on saturday
[09:12] <Upu> you got yourself a network of trackers then :)
[09:12] <Darkside> yup
[09:12] <Upu> are you part of the ukhas mailing list ?
[09:13] <number10> did you get some publicity with this weekends balloon Darkside?
[09:13] <fsphil> m1x10, aprs is not as efficient as rtty - the range will be reduced
[09:13] <stars-project> Thinking of using the Churchill release site - what do I have to do to get perms?
[09:13] <Darkside> number10: there should be a reg artigle today
[09:13] <Darkside> article*
[09:13] <daveake> cool
[09:13] <stars-project> Will get onto the list ASAP!
[09:13] <Darkside> i sent lester a shit-ton of info yesterday
[09:13] <Upu> You'll need to speak to one of the CUSF guys stars-project
[09:13] <stars-project> Thanks Upu.
[09:13] <Darkside> stars-project: speak to either eroomde_ or Randomskk
[09:13] <Upu> the mailing list is useful and you get tell us when you plan to launch
[09:13] <number10> hope you thank all your mates for staying in on a saturday and tracking - while you went down the pub ;_)
[09:14] <Darkside> number10: of course i did
[09:14] <Darkside> :P
[09:14] <number10> ;)
[09:14] <daveake> lol
[09:14] <Darkside> sitting in the pub while breaking the UK alt record was pretty damn cool
[09:14] <fsphil> There is a restaurant at our launch site :)
[09:14] <Darkside> haha even better
[09:14] <stars-project> *grin* Might well combine that with the Sept meeting of Cambridge Young Astronomers - we can present the post-mortem at the following meeting...:)
[09:15] <number10> we should have a BBQ at a launch
[09:15] <fsphil> mmm
[09:15] <Darkside> number10: we do that on most horus launches
[09:15] <daveake> mmm
[09:15] <Darkside> heh
[09:15] <stars-project> Nononononono - hydrogen!
[09:15] <daveake> lol
[09:15] <Darkside> stars-project: eek, you're using hydrogen...
[09:15] <fsphil> flame grilled payload
[09:15] <m1x10> fsphil: i wont use rtty.
[09:15] <number10> well its a bit too far for me to come - but thanks for the offer Darkside
[09:16] <Darkside> project horus has been considering switching to hydrogen, but we have too much safety shit to get through first
[09:16] <stars-project> Prob is, we could only get 1000gm balloons, and H2 makes 30 mins difference to ascent phase
[09:16] <Darkside> stars-project: depends how much you fill the balloon of course
[09:16] <Darkside> cut your payload weight down :P
[09:16] <daveake> Indeed :)
[09:16] <Darkside> if your 434MHz tracker is reliable enough, ditch the SPOT
[09:16] <m1x10> fsphil: Im on 1200baud AFSK
[09:17] <stars-project> Seems a shame to send the balloon on hols, and not bring back holiday snaps...
[09:17] <Darkside> stars-project: eh?
[09:17] <Darkside> you mean my balloon?
[09:17] <daveake> My crappocam is only 12g
[09:17] <Darkside> daveake: yeah but its a crappocam
[09:17] <Darkside> when we send up cameras, we use GoPros
[09:17] <Darkside> because they work damn well
[09:18] <number10> is that one of those keyring cams daveake?
[09:18] <daveake> If you have anything better suggestions I'm all ears
[09:18] <stars-project> The SPOT's probably the most reliable downlink, even if it doesn't do alts. 434MHz is for alts, mobile is fallback
[09:18] <Darkside> daveake: gopto hd hero
[09:18] <daveake> Yep number10
[09:18] <Darkside> stars-project: your 434MHz will be the most reliable
[09:18] <daveake> Weight inc batts?
[09:18] <Darkside> stars-project: well, when its above 2km anyway
[09:18] <Upu> especially with the network of listeners
[09:18] <m1x10> Help !
[09:18] <Darkside> daveake: 94g, but the battieres will only last 2.5 hours
[09:18] <Upu> sup m1x10
[09:18] <stars-project> Using two 110gm Traveler 14MPix jobs, already ditched the video
[09:19] <Darkside> daveake: we use an external usb battery pack with ours
[09:19] <number10> I taped one of those to the boys rocket on saturday daveake, they enjoyed the movie
[09:19] <stars-project> Trav. cameras have neat interval pic mode - every 10/30/120 secs configurable
[09:19] <stars-project> And LCD turned off, so best batt endurance.
[09:19] <Darkside> stars-project: we use CHDK canons, or just GoPros
[09:19] <m1x10> what is sup?
[09:19] <daveake> My Kodak Zx1 is 90g plus 30g for 2 batts. Needs 4 for the full flight though
[09:19] <Darkside> stars-project: http://vimeo.com/19064597
[09:19] <Darkside> m1x10: sup - whats up
[09:20] <stars-project> Thanks, DS.
[09:20] <NigelMoby> Sheep!
[09:20] Action: stars-project ducks
[09:20] <NigelMoby> Moocows!
[09:20] <Darkside> Baaaaaaaaaaa *clunk*
[09:21] <NigelMoby> Lol morning you crazy habbers
[09:21] <Upu> as you can see this channel is the epicenter of sensible considered HAB discussion.. :)
[09:21] <stars-project> 'ere, gotta go and do something I'm paid for. Will be back - thx for great welcome, guys!
[09:21] <Upu> have fun
[09:21] <Darkside> heh
[09:21] <NigelMoby> Lol upu ure jealous if the sheep :p
[09:22] <Upu> how did we get onto sheep ?
[09:22] <Upu> don't answer that also afk doing work
[09:22] <NigelMoby> Lol well.....
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[09:23] <daveake> Wonder if there's a not-so-crap-o-cam for say 50g inc batts
[09:23] <Upu> AEE MDS-50
[09:24] <Upu> err 91
[09:24] <Upu> its not great
[09:24] <Upu> but better than a keyring cam
[09:24] <Upu> AEE MDS-91
[09:24] <Upu> really afk now
[09:24] <daveake> Will take a look, cheers
[09:24] <daveake> With something like that I can do 150g all-in
[09:29] <fsphil> m1x10, you'll need to test but I think the range will be limited
[09:35] <m1x10> fsphil: using the magmount or the yagi ?
[09:37] <fsphil> possibly both
[09:37] <fsphil> but definitely the mag mount
[09:37] <fsphil> rtty at 1200 baud is difficult, doing it over FM makes it harder
[09:38] <Darkside> fsphil: well AX25 is essentially RTTY over FM
[09:39] <Darkside> its just FSK with a 1200Hz shift
[09:39] <fsphil> exactly
[09:42] <fsphil> being on fm increases the bandwidth of the signal quite a bit
[09:42] <fsphil> 15khz vs about 2khz
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[09:58] <NigelMoby> Ure stories out darkside
[09:59] <NigelMoby> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/23/balloon_record/
[10:01] <Randomskk> oh nice ;o
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[10:02] <simhed> :o
[10:02] <daveake> Nice article :)
[10:02] Action: Randomskk will have to read it properly at lunch, looks good though!
[10:03] <Darkside> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/23/balloon_record/
[10:03] <Darkside> nice
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[10:05] <NigelMoby> Silly internet
[10:08] <fsphil> good article
[10:09] <Darkside> yeah
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[10:09] <Darkside> oh shit, my blog is going to get hammered
[10:10] <Darkside> what to do what to do...
[10:10] <Randomskk> what's it running on? :P
[10:11] <Darkside> a VPS
[10:11] <Darkside> but i only havr a limited quota
[10:12] <Randomskk> pfft, bandwidth should be the least of your concerns
[10:12] <Darkside> why?
[10:13] <Randomskk> depending on your hosting setup, mysql/apache will die quicker (unless you have a really mean bandwidth limit)
[10:13] <Randomskk> pretty much unless you're just serving static html on a fast web server
[10:13] <Darkside> mm
[10:13] <Randomskk> it's not like you're hosting the video
[10:13] <Darkside> yeah
[10:13] <Darkside> true
[10:13] <Darkside> that video is going to get tons of hits though
[10:13] <Randomskk> hehe
[10:14] <number10> were was that bit about his best mate number10 being the first tracker outside cambridge to pick up the signal ;)
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[10:15] <Darkside> haha
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[10:21] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/TRpf4.jpg <-- the cornell launch
[10:21] <Darkside> see, thats cheating :P
[10:22] <Darkside> but i wouldn't mind getting a few of those zero pressure balloons :P
[10:23] <daveake> :)
[10:23] <daveake> Methinks you're finding success and glory addictive :)
[10:24] <Darkside> haha
[10:26] <Darkside> HAHAHA
[10:27] <Darkside> i love the sub-text on the article
[10:27] <Darkside> Helium space orb glory marred by Antipodean beer insanity
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[10:33] <number10> Is that edmoore in the red filling the balloon
[10:35] <Darkside> yep
[10:35] <Darkside> ok, just added another 100gb of quota onto my VPS
[10:35] <Darkside> hopefully that'll be enough
[10:36] <Randomskk> what's the blog running? wordpress?
[10:38] <Darkside> yep
[10:38] <Darkside> its more the high res pics that i'm linking to
[10:39] <fsphil> stich them on flickr
[10:39] <fsphil> stick*
[10:39] <DanielRichman> on the other hand, you can get revenge on the people that melt your blog's vps if they're unlucky enough to try and load up the tracker
[10:39] <Randomskk> Darkside: wp-supercache plugin for wordpress is good, but yea photos are best on flickr :P
[10:39] <Darkside> this is the fin bit
[10:39] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: haha
[10:39] <Darkside> they linked the tracker in teh article
[10:39] <Randomskk> ph god :P
[10:40] <Randomskk> is the darkside data still on it?
[10:40] <DanielRichman> yaya and some xaben data
[10:40] <Randomskk> sweet
[10:40] <DanielRichman> but I think the real killer is that we wernt' uploading seq= from habitat
[10:40] <Darkside> Randomskk: i just removed the xaben data
[10:40] <DanielRichman> so
[10:40] Action: Randomskk can't login to nessie atm, at work
[10:40] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: what's iftop look like? :P
[10:40] <DanielRichman> there's about 5 points stacked on top of each other for the first portion of darkside's flight
[10:40] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: tracker is on spacenear remember
[10:41] <Randomskk> oh yea! forgot
[10:41] <Randomskk> poor natrium :P
[10:41] <DanielRichman> spacenear's load is low. I'm sure he'll be fine :P
[10:41] <DanielRichman> mebe we should put some sort of monitoring on it incase it melts
[10:41] <DanielRichman> we coudl swap data.php out for static content in an emergency
[10:42] <Randomskk> spacenear.us or habhub? or as a thing to do?
[10:42] Action: Randomskk had lots of beautiful metrics planned
[10:42] <DanielRichman> spacenear just for today I was thinking
[10:42] <DanielRichman> couchdb would just take that like a man
[10:42] <DanielRichman> I hope...
[10:44] <Randomskk> ugh latency
[10:44] <Randomskk> yea, I'd hope so
[10:44] <Randomskk> have to test that sometime
[10:44] <Randomskk> maybe spin up some EC2 instances, have them all run a load of parallel reqs :P
[10:45] <DanielRichman> haha. I want to double check that it's only using the view server when absolutely necessary (specifically wrt filtering _changes)
[10:46] <Randomskk> we should test the python view server's performance vs js too
[10:57] <Darkside> so, today i get to test out a space-rated gps receiver
[10:58] <Randomskk> ;o
[10:58] <Randomskk> hopefully they don't have the 18km limit ;P
[10:59] <fsphil> lassen? :)
[10:59] <Darkside> Randomskk: yeah...
[11:00] <Darkside> i'm going to make it climb to 100km
[11:00] <Darkside> and i'll also test it moving at 6km/s
[11:00] <Randomskk> sounds good. how fast does it spit out position updates?
[11:00] <Darkside> i've only got it doing 1Hz
[11:01] <Darkside> it can go a lot faster tho
[11:02] <Randomskk> at 6km/s that's a lot of distance between locks!
[11:03] <Darkside> #RXSTATUSEVENTA,COM2,0,0.5,COARSESTEERING,1648,452781.507,004c0000,b967,5683;ERROR,21,SET,"Export Restrictions Exceeded"*519ede0b
[11:03] <Darkside> bahahahahah
[11:03] <Darkside> this isnt the space rated one btw
[11:03] <Darkside> its the other one
[11:04] <Randomskk> hah
[11:10] <number10> Hey Darkside - If you want to make something even smaller I had some ublox chips at work you, could integrate this onto the PCB instead of a module. If you are interested I'll have a look to see if they were not checked away when I go back next week
[11:10] <number10> chucked*
[11:13] <Darkside> cool
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[11:15] <NigelMoby> Lambs!
[11:15] <number10> ?
[11:16] <NigelMoby> It's a Welsh thing, ignore me
[11:16] <number10> baaa
[11:17] <NigelMoby> Lols at the the comments, saying don't use 434 as it interferes with a repeater.
[11:17] <NigelMoby> The reg&
[11:18] <fsphil> haha
[11:18] <fsphil> the old hams appear
[11:18] <fsphil> they'd have a point if it was using more power, but not 10mw
[11:18] <fsphil> *ahem*
[11:19] <NigelMoby> Lol go get em Phil :p
[11:20] <DanielRichman> what do they suggest using instead...
[11:20] <NigelMoby> Yogurt pots and string?
[11:21] <fsphil> I did rtty over that NigelMoby :)
[11:21] <Darkside> ok...
[11:21] <NigelMoby> Lol oh dear
[11:22] <fsphil> olivia works well over string :)
[11:22] <NigelMoby> Is there anything u haven't tried?
[11:22] <fsphil> onions
[11:23] <NigelMoby> Lmao
[11:23] <NigelMoby> Leave that to the French eh?
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[11:24] <TimZaman> fsphil: are you here?
[11:24] <NigelMoby> Hey Tim
[11:24] <TimZaman> Hello
[11:25] <fsphil> in spirit TimZaman
[11:25] <TimZaman> i cant seem to setup my fundongle with the fldigi sadly
[11:25] <TimZaman> with spectravue its kinda awesome
[11:25] <TimZaman> works like a tit
[11:25] <fsphil> lol
[11:25] <fsphil> I had to setup fldigi to capture from the output of the pc
[11:25] <TimZaman> it looks like any HAM software (very bad and 90s) but works well
[11:25] <NigelMoby> See Uve got Tim at it now!
[11:25] <fsphil> so it records what spectravue plays
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[11:26] <TimZaman> yeah i got it
[11:26] <TimZaman> just looping the channels
[11:26] <TimZaman> sorta
[11:26] <TimZaman> but yeah i wanted to do that
[11:26] <TimZaman> but Failed
[11:26] <fsphil> with pulseaudio on linux it can be done with the pulse audio control thingy
[11:26] <TimZaman> well spectravue, should i use win?
[11:26] <TimZaman> wine?
[11:27] <fsphil> it works on wine, but better in windows
[11:27] <TimZaman> because ive switched to windows for spectravue to work
[11:27] <fsphil> you can have fldigi read from the funcube dongle directly but I don't think it works too well
[11:27] <TimZaman> no works like :(
[11:28] <TimZaman> well there is 'a' signal but there's something wrong with it
[11:28] <fsphil> you where probably seeing a mirror image of it
[11:28] <TimZaman> also, they should incorporate the FDIhid inside spectracube, that'd be nice
[11:28] <fsphil> there is a plugin for spectravue to control the dongle
[11:28] <TimZaman> Rrrrly
[11:28] <fsphil> but I've never used it, only works on windows
[11:28] <TimZaman> but still
[11:28] <TimZaman> how do i port it on windows
[11:29] <fsphil> yea some dll to copy into the program folder
[11:29] <TimZaman> but how do i port to fldigi on win i mean
[11:29] <fsphil> it's in the yahoo group files section
[11:29] <fsphil> use tat beta version I linked to yesterday
[11:29] <fsphil> that*
[11:30] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/files/dl-fldigi-3.21.13-fsphil-github-20110813_setup.exe
[11:30] <TimZaman> i am using that i think
[11:31] <TimZaman> ah thats a negative
[11:32] <TimZaman> but still
[11:32] <TimZaman> how do i port the audio
[11:32] <fsphil> that I'm not sure.. windows audio is weird
[11:32] <fsphil> there are virtual sound card programs that do it I think, but I don't know any names
[11:33] <TimZaman> actually on xp i would know how to
[11:33] <fsphil> yea, it was easy on xp
[11:35] <Darkside> $GPRMC,054649.00,A,5331.0224805,N,00159.9994331,W,11663.505,0.0,120811,0.0,E,A*29
[11:35] <Darkside> 11663 knots
[11:35] <Darkside> yerp
[11:35] <Darkside> 6kms
[11:35] <Darkside> whee
[11:36] <Darkside> 6km/s
[11:36] <Laurenceb> haha nice
[11:36] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "[UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
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[12:06] <Upu> hey Darkside grats :)
[12:06] <Darkside> heh
[12:07] <Laurenceb> did you know its illegal to offer to cure the cancer killing /b/ ?
[12:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/2-3/13/section/4
[12:07] <Darkside> lol
[12:07] <Laurenceb> section 1
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[12:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
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[12:18] <Upu> hey Darkside what did you reckon to the article ?
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[12:20] <Upu> proper beer :)
[12:21] <fsphil> no such thing :)
[12:22] <Upu> Fair points by Steve
[12:23] <fsphil> yea- I thought it was all done by the book in the rocketry world
[12:24] <Upu> I'll speak to Steve about it later
[12:25] <daveake> Maybe this stuff would work as a low-power, sage cutdown - http://www.eiclabs.com/ERhome.htm
[12:25] <daveake> safe*
[12:25] <fsphil> cool
[12:26] <Upu> Darkside hows your blog ? If you need some bandwidths just ask
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[12:26] <Upu> thats interesting daveake
[12:26] <daveake> See http://www.adhesivesandsealants.com/product.mvc/Electrelease-E4-0001
[12:27] <daveake> Needs 10V+ at 5mA, but for "5s to 20 mins depending on voltage and load" !
[12:27] <fsphil> could make an electric version of Dan's water-based cutdown
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[12:28] <fsphil> wonder if it would still work at low temperatures
[12:28] <fsphil> it might become a lot more resistant to releasing if it's frozen
[12:28] <daveake> I wondered the same. Haven't seen anything about that.
[12:28] <Upu> aye
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[12:33] <Darkside> ok back
[12:33] <Upu> wb Darkside
[12:34] <Upu> hows your bandwdith ?
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[12:35] <Darkside> dunno lol
[12:35] <Darkside> i dont have a meter
[12:35] <Upu> lemmie know if you have any issues as technically this is my fault
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[12:36] <Darkside> lol
[12:36] <Darkside> i shoulg install iftop
[12:37] <Upu> iptraf can do it too
[12:37] <Darkside> ack
[12:38] <Darkside> all the comments on the reg article are about the beer comment
[12:38] <Darkside> :P
[12:38] <Upu> lol
[12:38] <Darkside> oh well
[12:38] <Darkside> its not so bad
[12:38] <Upu> ironic that you don't drink beer
[12:39] <Darkside> i do occasionally
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[12:39] <Darkside> coopers and lowenbru
[12:39] <Upu> ok
[12:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
[12:41] <Upu> frequency to choose for the telemetry, that's the input frequency of the RB2 70cm amateur band repeater channel, there happens to be a repeater on that channel in North Norfolk so they really should have selected somewhere less likely to lead to interference.
[12:41] <Upu> bloody HAMS
[12:41] <Upu> would be nice if we COULD use other frequencies :)
[12:42] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:43] <Laurenceb> hams moan about everything
[12:43] <daveake> lol
[12:43] <Upu> 73's my arse
[12:43] <daveake> I liked this link in the comments http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-14606919
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[12:45] <fsphil> they'd be lucky to hear the signal at all on an FM radio
[12:46] <Darkside> yah
[12:46] <Darkside> i'm going to stop reading the comments, heh
[12:46] <Darkside> i've gotten one email from someone asking about the transmitters
[12:46] <Darkside> i've replied telling them to come here, and also given some info on the NTX2
[12:46] <Darkside> and how we drive
[12:46] <Darkside> it
[12:46] <daveake> I dunno, you break a record and all you get is people complaining about radio interference, false emergency alarms and poor taste in beer
[12:46] <Darkside> the guys name is simon, in case he joins when i'm not here
[12:47] <daveake> Fair point on the last one though lol
[12:47] <Darkside> lol
[12:47] <Darkside> you guys obviously haven't tried coopers vintage
[12:47] <Darkside> but it doesn't get exported
[12:48] <fsphil> "There's this thing called GPS. You obviously haven't heard of it," lol
[12:48] <daveake> lol
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[12:54] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: In principle, today, you could I suspect do a damn good stab of totally not using GPS, if you just have a downloaded copy of the UK at 10m.pixel
[12:56] <daveake> [Looks up at clouds] .. yes, in principle :)
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[13:03] <fsphil> indeed :)
[13:03] <fsphil> we could probably use time-of-arrival to calculate the position if all the receiving stations had a good gps-based time source
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> I suspect we'd need _LOTS_ higher bandwidth than the 10khz or so we have.
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> In principle, with coherent recievers, it could be very, very accurate
[13:12] <Darkside> if the transmitter was gps synced it would be fine
[13:12] <GW8RAK> Like the comment about the repeater Upu. Don't you know that hams own their frequencies?
[13:12] <Darkside> i reckon you could get the position of the payload to within a few hundred metres
[13:13] <Darkside> have it send a pulse out , say, a ms after a gps second
[13:13] <Darkside> and have receivers on the ground that start capturing data on the gps second
[13:13] <Laurenceb> hmm i could add that to the cc1020 sdr
[13:13] <Darkside> since you know whats being transmitter, you can generate a replica of the transitted signal on the ground, then cross correlate
[13:13] <Darkside> work out the delay, and hence time of flight
[13:13] <Upu> GW8RAK sorry yeah :)
[13:13] <Laurenceb> might be possible with funcube, but its not opensource
[13:13] <Upu> As an antipodean, and fellow alumnus of The University of Adelaide, I would like to formally distance myself from such disgraceful remarks. Australian beer is piss, chilled so much you can't taste it. Expensive piss at that
[13:13] <Upu> haha
[13:13] <Darkside> Laurenceb: no
[13:14] <Darkside> i dont like the funcubes receive chain
[13:14] <Darkside> you don't have any timing guarantess
[13:14] <Darkside> i'd probably use a different receiver
[13:15] <Darkside> though it could be interesting to try with the funcube dongle
[13:15] <Upu> really should do some work afk
[13:16] <Laurenceb> cc1020 has a sync pin that seems to work
[13:16] <jonsowman> Darkside: you still in the UK?
[13:16] <Darkside> hmm
[13:16] <Darkside> yes jonsowman
[13:16] <Laurenceb> i use it to synchronise the spi samples
[13:16] <Darkside> i fly out sunday night
[13:16] <jonsowman> Darkside: just had a journalist from BBC Look East on the phone, wanted to have a chat with you
[13:16] <Darkside> ooh ok
[13:16] <Darkside> uhmmmm
[13:17] <jonsowman> your choice
[13:17] <Darkside> ill pm you my mobile number
[13:17] <jonsowman> well I've got his
[13:17] <jonsowman> so I'll give you that
[13:17] <jonsowman> ring him if you like
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[13:17] <Laurenceb> heh how many people read the register
[13:18] <daveake> Darkside's fame is ballooning
[13:18] <Darkside> punny
[13:18] <daveake> sorry
[13:22] <Wild-Wing> hi
[13:25] <Darkside> ok
[13:25] <Darkside> they wanted to do an inteview spot
[13:25] <Darkside> but i'm in bath and they're in cambridge
[13:25] <Darkside> so not happening
[13:25] <Darkside> jonsowman: if you can get them adams number that's be best
[13:26] <Gillerire> Hey Darkside - congrats on breaking the record :)
[13:26] <Darkside> problem is i dont think adam in in bath either
[13:26] <Darkside> thanks Gillerire
[13:26] <jonsowman> Darkside: no problem, will do
[13:26] <Gillerire> how long are you over there for?
[13:26] <jonsowman> cheers
[13:26] <Darkside> Gillerire: i fly back on sunday
[13:28] <Darkside> jonsowman: they wanted to do an interview with someone about it
[13:28] <Darkside> but nobody is in cambridge
[13:28] <Gillerire> was it just a holiday, or part of your studies too?
[13:28] <jonsowman> Darkside: ah right, he didn't mention that to me
[13:28] <jonsowman> Darkside: thanks for phoning him anyway :)
[13:28] <Darkside> Gillerire: i'm here working on a cubesat payload
[13:28] <jonsowman> will pass it onto Adam
[13:29] <Darkside> the ballooning stuff is just what i do on the weekends
[13:29] <Gillerire> nice
[13:29] <fsphil> has anyone submitted the result to the arhab website?
[13:29] <Darkside> yes
[13:29] <Darkside> upu did
[13:30] <fsphil> sweet
[13:30] <Darkside> no idea how ofteh they check their email tho
[13:30] <Gillerire> bed time for me over here - enjoy your fame ;)
[13:30] <Darkside> lol
[13:30] <Darkside> nn
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[13:39] <Wild-Wing> darkside how high did you go?
[13:41] <Darkside> 40575m
[13:43] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[13:43] <W0OTM> Hello
[13:43] <Wild-Wing> damn thats pretty damn high 25 miles up which record did you break?
[13:45] <Darkside> yk alt record
[13:45] <Darkside> uk*
[13:45] <Darkside> and 600m off the world amateur record
[13:45] <Wild-Wing> holy shit you must be stoked man
[13:45] <Wild-Wing> congrats man
[13:46] <Wild-Wing> are you going to try to go for the world record?
[13:46] <Darkside> yup
[13:47] <Wild-Wing> awesome good luck on getting the world record
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[13:56] <Darkside> anyone tested these? http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Wireless/General/TWS-BS-3_433.92MHz_ASK_RF_Transmitter_Module_Data_Sheet.pdf
[13:57] <Darkside> i'm wondering if the data pin just keys it
[13:57] <Darkside> and if it'd work fine as a tiny morse code beacon
[13:58] <Randomskk> Darkside: spoke to the bbc
[13:58] <Darkside> Randomskk: mm?
[13:58] <Darkside> i guess sinve you're not in cambridge either they cant do anything
[13:58] <Randomskk> we are all too far away to be interviewed :| but they might put some of the video on the news tomorrow anyway, saying briefly what we did
[13:58] <Randomskk> shame really
[13:58] <Darkside> cool
[13:58] <Randomskk> but yea
[13:58] <Darkside> yeah
[13:58] <Upu> Darkside
[13:59] <Darkside> Upu
[13:59] <Upu> "Unless the flight was listed on the ARHAB.org web site prior to launch I can't accept any records for inclusion on the web."
[13:59] <Upu> rior to your flights please take just a moment to use the form at; http://www.arhab.org/annomail.html to submit your flight.
[13:59] <Darkside> oh fuck off
[13:59] <GW8RAK> That's a bit annoying.
[13:59] <Darkside> thats a bit bullshit
[14:00] <Upu> he doesn't say congratulations though
[14:00] <GW8RAK> To put it mildly
[14:00] <Darkside> so who runs it/
[14:00] <Darkside> ?
[14:00] <GW8RAK> Just list the record on our Wiki and it stands this side of the water
[14:00] <Darkside> yeah
[14:00] <Darkside> its already on that list
[14:00] <GW8RAK> And so it should be.
[14:01] <Upu> Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@gmail.com>
[14:02] <Darkside> ugh
[14:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
[14:02] <Darkside> Upu: maybe post an email on the UKHAS list askinf if anyone knows anyone
[14:02] <Darkside> :P
[14:02] <Darkside> see if it gets some attention that way
[14:03] <Upu> looks like we (UK) need to be posting notifications of launches on their site as well
[14:03] <Upu> I'll put a mail round to that effect
[14:03] <Randomskk> well
[14:04] <Wild-Wing> thats udder bullshit for arhab to say that
[14:04] <Randomskk> there was a launch notification, publically, prior to the launch
[14:04] <Randomskk> like, they can have whatever standards they want for their records list, but...
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[14:06] <DanielRichman> I think you're all underestimating the credibility and importance of having the launch listed prior to flying. Very serious stuff.
[14:06] <eroomde_> well, we can get habitat to cross-post to their arbtrary little list when someone sets up the predictor for a new flight
[14:06] <eroomde_> sorry, the tracker
[14:06] <eroomde_> Randomskk: bbc cam were interested?
[14:06] <Randomskk> yea.
[14:06] <Randomskk> eroomde_: spoke to him just now, got his phone/email for if we do anything exciting and want the bbc to know
[14:06] <eroomde_> they always want that
[14:06] <Randomskk> eroomde_: haha actually can we do it on the predictor? they might take the hint :P
[14:07] <eroomde_> the last time i did something on their radio i was on the loo with severe food poisening
[14:07] <Randomskk> eroomde_: they wanted to interview one of us but we're both not in cambridge
[14:07] <Darkside> they were considering getting me to bristol
[14:07] <Darkside> but i declined
[14:07] <Darkside> too annoying, not enough time really
[14:07] <eroomde_> it's so not worth it
[14:07] <eroomde_> as much as that makes me a grouch
[14:07] <Darkside> heh
[14:08] <eroomde_> there are about 400 regional stations
[14:08] <Randomskk> eroomde_: hooking habitat up to submit to their form every time a new flight document is made would be pretty easy
[14:08] <eroomde_> they are desperate for filler material
[14:08] <Randomskk> I wnoder if they'd get annoyed yet
[14:08] <eroomde_> and they ask really inane questions
[14:08] <Darkside> eroomde_: haha
[14:08] <Darkside> Randomskk: who cares if they get annoyed
[14:08] <eroomde_> 'did the teddies mind getting so cold' about 19 times
[14:08] <Darkside> at least 2 horus flights should be on that record lsit
[14:08] <eroomde_> no, they're made of stuffing you stupid arse
[14:08] <jonsowman> lol
[14:08] <Darkside> lol eroomde_
[14:09] <Randomskk> eroomde_: surely that gives you enough time to come up with a snarky response
[14:09] <eroomde_> Darkside: yep, and a few CUSf launches too
[14:09] <eroomde_> i think it's just a US thing
[14:09] <Darkside> yeah
[14:09] <Darkside> which is bullshit
[14:09] <Darkside> :P
[14:09] <eroomde_> Upu: can you forward that email you got about the arhab records around the list
[14:09] <eroomde_> there are two reasons
[14:09] <eroomde_> 1) so people know
[14:09] <Upu> yeah doing it now
[14:09] <eroomde_> 2) so US people on the lift who are quite influential and not busybodies will read it
[14:09] <Upu> he was very polite about it
[14:09] <Upu> k
[14:09] <eroomde_> and maybe chat to mr PHB
[14:11] <Darkside> heh
[14:11] <Upu> PHB ?
[14:12] <Darkside> heh
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[14:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "[UKHAS] ARHAB Records Page"
[14:14] <Upu> done
[14:15] <eroomde_> ta
[14:15] <Randomskk> not "previously announced" so much as "previously submitted to his website"
[14:16] <eroomde_> at was about 4 years ago that i had quite a backwards and forwards with the gpsl lot about if UK stuff could even be elligible as ARHAB
[14:16] <eroomde_> it took a long old while
[14:16] <Randomskk> on what grounds? not actually amateur radio?
[14:16] <eroomde_> yup
[14:16] Nick change: eroomde_ -> eroomde
[14:17] <Randomskk> I see
[14:17] <eroomde> we can just carpetbomb google for 'hab records'
[14:17] <eroomde> or something
[14:17] <Randomskk> yes, I think so
[14:18] <eroomde> and switch to the habhub records when it's up and running
[14:18] <Randomskk> there are convincing arguments for letting them keep their own narrow worldview and not worrying about arhab overmuch :P
[14:18] <Randomskk> though if we swap to the habhub records we would have to be careful we don't end up doing the same thing, i.e. it's only one of our records if it used habitat
[14:19] <simhed> haha
[14:20] <simhed> i wrote this guy two weeks ago after my 38.5km
[14:20] <simhed> got the same response
[14:20] <simhed> :)
[14:20] <simhed> "can't list unless you notify my before launch blah"
[14:21] <simhed> *me
[14:21] <Wild-Wing> that is a stupid way to do it
[14:21] <Wild-Wing> thats called lazy
[14:23] <Upu> Randomskk just call our site the world record and have done with it :)
[14:23] <simhed> well, i don't know what his motives are
[14:23] <Randomskk> Upu: heh, yea.
[14:23] <Randomskk> well, we could do that fairly easily. big enough community.
[14:23] <Randomskk> write up actual guidelines for inclusion that don't also say "you must tell us before you launch" or such.
[14:23] <Upu> also some of their launches are stretching the word "amateur"
[14:24] <Randomskk> we would then have our own problem on how to define it, though.
[14:24] <eroomde> correct
[14:24] <earthshine> Afternoon o/
[14:25] <Randomskk> heya
[14:25] <Upu> hi earthshine
[14:26] <Wild-Wing> it just makes me want to use my hosting for you hab guys
[14:26] <Randomskk> we have plenty of hosting :P
[14:27] <Randomskk> thanks, though! once habitat starts working as a globally distributed system it should be easy for people who want to help to add more capability to the network
[14:27] <Upu> I've been thinking about that
[14:27] <eroomde> oh dear
[14:27] <Upu> lol
[14:28] <Randomskk> Upu: the more capability or the amateur thing?
[14:28] <Upu> more capacity
[14:28] <Randomskk> it's an interesting problem. once we have more of the base habitat stuff working I think it will warrent some attention
[14:28] <Upu> I'm not a programmer but I like my HA / distributed stuff
[14:28] <Randomskk> who doesn't, right? it's so cool
[14:28] <Wild-Wing> lol thats easy as long as you know how to set up the web farm
[14:29] <Randomskk> I mean one of the design reasons for picking couch was its hopefully easy scalability
[14:29] <Upu> Aye I run www.mcfc.co.uk Wild-Wing :)
[14:29] <eroomde> i'm quite keen on keeping hab free, if this affects the decision
[14:29] <Randomskk> eroomde: what decision?
[14:29] <eroomde> i.e. if bobby-joe and his pop want to launch their balloon, they shouldn't have to contribute anything towards using habitat
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[14:30] <eroomde> the 'how to expand' decision
[14:30] <Randomskk> oh, no, I don't mean like that at all
[14:30] <Upu> me too eroomde which is why habhub.org is I'm happy to donate some rack space and bandwidth
[14:30] <Randomskk> yea, definitely
[14:30] <Upu> I can't contribute with programming so I'll do it other ways
[14:30] <Randomskk> I mean, we've got upu's server now, we already had plans if we didn't have that, I don't think there's any contention on keeping it totally free to use forever for everyone
[14:30] <eroomde> because one vector might be farming it out to amazon and then asking 'ukhas' to chip in via subscription or something
[14:30] <eroomde> i don't mind making the odd private donation (once i have a salary)
[14:30] <Upu> don't worry about hosting
[14:31] <Randomskk> it's more where people want to contribute server capacity it would be good to have made a network that can utilise it
[14:31] <Upu> as long as my company is in business you'll have hosting
[14:31] <Randomskk> thanks :D
[14:31] <eroomde> yes thanks :)(
[14:31] <Upu> talking of which
[14:31] <Upu> got to do some work
[14:31] <Randomskk> hehe yea
[14:31] <Randomskk> seeya :P
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[14:32] <Wild-Wing> gah damn seamonkey offline mode my ass
[14:32] <Wild-Wing> looks cool man good work
[14:32] <Randomskk> eroomde: the expanding thing is more how we can make sure we're able to scale, I'd run habitat on my own servers before charging for its use
[14:32] <DanielRichman> My only problem with couch and its scaling is that every server in the network would have to recompute all the views, if I understand it correctly
[14:33] <Randomskk> I think views are stored locally
[14:33] <DanielRichman> but besides that with one way replication and a html file or two in theory you have an instant master-slave
[14:33] <Randomskk> we'll probably want to work out soem way of not having all the data ever be replicated
[14:33] <Randomskk> I think the ideal is a federated network - anyone can run their own habitat, and anyone can easily and freely link their habitat into the main system to share telemetry
[14:33] <Randomskk> a bit like jabber or something.
[14:34] <DanielRichman> wow hmm
[14:34] <Randomskk> (in fact we investigated systems similar to jabber and things like distributed hash tables when we were deciding technologies)
[14:34] <DanielRichman> yeah
[14:34] <Randomskk> but couch's ready HTTP interface for javascript plus it being generally nice kinda won out for it
[14:34] <DanielRichman> we're gonna have to add exceptions to the validation rules for replication. I don't know whether we'll end up requiring chase cars to authenticate or not, but if we don't, then anyone can just start two way replicating and it will work
[14:35] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I mean atm it's not that hard for anyone to run their own habitat anyway, it's just the federation that's difficult
[14:35] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: yea. also probably won't always want to replicate all the data
[14:35] <DanielRichman> true
[14:35] <Randomskk> like okay, 'official' servers will probably want all the data archived
[14:35] <Randomskk> but if you're a chase car you don't want two years of other people's flight telemetry copied to you
[14:35] <DanielRichman> ;D
[14:36] <eroomde> could we maybe have a habitat config webpage as part of the habitat web app?
[14:36] <eroomde> which check boxes to define all this
[14:36] <Randomskk> yea, that's a big part of the plan
[14:36] <Randomskk> though due to specifics in how couch works that part will require authentication to the couch db (also done through a web page and javascript etc, it's not a biggie)
[14:37] <Randomskk> also another habitat config page for things that don't need couch admin rights, like uploading/managing flight docs
[14:37] <Wild-Wing> im willing to give up someof my hosting to this
[14:37] <DanielRichman> Wild-Wing: that's awesome :D. But there's no need to provision boxes immediately: load average: 0.09, 0.07, 0.08
[14:38] <DanielRichman> once it goes live I guess we're gonna get a better idea of how much power it's gonna need
[14:38] <Randomskk> yea. also we really need to work out how to make couch fast
[14:38] <Randomskk> but whatever
[14:38] <Randomskk> premature optimisation and all that
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[14:41] <Wild-Wing> sounds like you all have it planed well
[14:42] <Randomskk> hah. that's what we thought a year ago :P
[14:44] <Darkside> hmm
[14:44] <Darkside> looks like my umbrella won't get through heathrow security
[14:44] <Darkside> thats shit
[14:45] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
[14:47] <Wild-Wing> umbrella?
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[14:47] <NigeyS> afternoon
[14:47] <Darkside> yes, umbrella
[14:48] <Darkside> its a big umbrella, with a metal point
[14:48] <Darkside> i don't think it'll get through security
[14:48] <Wild-Wing> ohhhhhhh damn that might be a problem
[14:48] <Darkside> yep
[14:48] <Darkside> its a nice umbrella too, and i'd love to have it in australia
[14:49] <Darkside> but it looks like it own't happen
[14:49] <Darkside> won't*
[14:50] <Randomskk> put it in your packed luggage?
[14:50] <Wild-Wing> well if its in a checked bag you might
[14:50] <SamSilver> Darkside: must be allowed as checked in luggage
[14:50] <Darkside> it won't fit in my baggage
[14:50] <Darkside> its way too big
[14:50] <Darkside> i could possibly tie it to the side
[14:50] <Randomskk> get bigger baggage :P
[14:50] <Wild-Wing> make it fit lol
[14:50] <Randomskk> you could check it in /as/ baggage
[14:51] <Wild-Wing> OH yea rand is right
[14:51] <Darkside> yeah maybe
[14:51] <Darkside> problem is i need to be sure
[14:51] <NigeyS> Yes, you can certainly bring an umbrella as part of your carry-on luggage (or in your checked bag as well, of course.) The only thing to remember is that it might be inspected at the security checkpoint, to make sure you're not hiding any concealed weapons inside it
[14:51] <Darkside> as if it doesn't get through, i'll have to throw it away
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[14:52] <NigeyS> heathrow or gatwick Darkside ?
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[14:53] <Darkside> heathrow
[14:54] <NigeyS> What about umbrellas?
[14:54] <NigeyS> Umbrellas are permitted. They will be X-ray screened at security control.
[14:54] <NigeyS> ure good :)
[14:54] <NigeyS> http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/page/Heathrow%5EGeneral%5EAirport%20information%5EHeathrow%20security%5ESecurity+FAQs/76bb00df152dd010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____/448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____/#7
[14:54] <Darkside> yeah ut heathrow also has problems with carry on baggage
[14:55] <NigeyS> its fine by the sounds of it, if in doubt give them a call, rather than leave it behind
[14:55] <Darkside> yeah
[14:55] <Darkside> but i can leave it here, and pick it up when i get back
[14:55] Action: Elwell forgot he still had his rad badge (dosimiter) with him when ferrying to the UK last week - then had to get it past screeners at LGW on way back
[14:56] <Darkside> also, if i get it in as carry on luggage, i then need to get it through hongkong airport security too
[14:56] <Darkside> as i have a layover there
[14:56] <Elwell> suprisingly understanding 'please hand screen this'
[14:56] <NigeyS> ahh
[14:56] <NigeyS> lol Elwell
[14:56] <Randomskk> haha I can just imagine what'd happen to it otherwise
[14:56] <Darkside> Elwell: what do you do?
[14:57] <Elwell> Darkside: work at CERN :-)
[14:57] <Darkside> ahh :-)
[14:57] <Randomskk> that said, do the luggage x-rayers affect it now? I thought a lot of them became film-safe
[14:57] <Darkside> can you give me a tour? :P
[14:57] <Randomskk> though I guess the dosimetre's probably more sensitive
[14:57] <Elwell> Darkside: yeah, when you here
[14:57] <Randomskk> still wouldn't put high iso film through one >_>
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[14:57] <Darkside> i didn't think you could give yours through the underground stuff
[14:57] <Darkside> tours*
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[14:58] Action: Randomskk got on the last ATLAS tour before it turned on and now no tour groups can go down there, win
[14:58] <Darkside> but if so, thats awesome
[14:58] <Elwell> (tis the reason I have one -- don't need it for dayjob, but wear it (and measure before and after) for public tours
[14:58] <Darkside> Randomskk: heh nice
[14:58] Action: Elwell is one of the guides
[14:58] <Darkside> ahhhh
[14:58] <Darkside> yeah but you don't see much on the tours
[14:58] <Darkside> you don't see all the cool shit you saw when it was being built
[14:58] <Elwell> now its all surface.
[14:58] <Darkside> yeah
[14:59] <Randomskk> I got to stare down the beamline
[14:59] <Randomskk> it was great
[14:59] <Elwell> but the control room, SM18 (magnet test area) and linac / AD are still cool
[14:59] Action: NigeyS jealous :(
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[14:59] <Darkside> i'd love to see what happens in the beamdump when that gets used
[14:59] <Elwell> suspect it may be opened up again in the long shutdown
[15:00] <Elwell> Darkside: seen the pics of it?
[15:00] <NigeyS> how long is the shutdown, 12 months ?
[15:00] <Randomskk> just over winter, isn't it?
[15:00] <Randomskk> when electricity gets expensive :P
[15:00] <NigeyS> lol
[15:00] <Elwell> Randomskk: nah not any more -- only a short break then now
[15:00] <Randomskk> aah okay
[15:00] <Darkside> nope Elwell
[15:00] <russss> they need to shut it down for longer to uprate it to 7TeV
[15:01] <Elwell> (cause it takes so long to warm up / cool down wth the cryogenics
[15:01] <russss> next year
[15:01] <russss> I think
[15:01] <Elwell> so they do long runs and a big shutdown (~1yr) instead
[15:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Hibberd "Re: [UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
[15:03] <Elwell> https://picasaweb.google.com/Thomas.Kramer.at/LHCPoint6# <-- TDE is the dump
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[15:06] <NigeyS> what are those blocks made of ?
[15:06] <Wild-Wing> grrrr think my internet connnection slowed down
[15:07] <Elwell> graphite
[15:07] <Elwell> they 'paint' the beam on in a circilat motion to prevent it uhm. zapping it.
[15:07] <Elwell> circular even
[15:08] <NigeyS> ohh sounds rather over my head that hehe
[15:08] <Elwell> http://op-webtools.web.cern.ch/op-webtools/vistar/vistars.php?usr=LHCBDS - damn hasn't been a recent dump so doesn't show it
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[15:11] <Wild-Wing> l
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[15:25] <Wild-Wing> okk i think im going nuts
[15:26] <NigeyS> oh?
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[15:29] Action: fsphil sends in the squirrels
[15:30] <NigeyS> hehe
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[15:56] <Darkside> ok, MicroNut has been sent for manufacture
[16:00] <Randomskk> nice!
[16:00] <Randomskk> where?
[16:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
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[16:11] <TimZaman> anyone know a good magnetic mount
[16:11] <TimZaman> 70cm
[16:11] <TimZaman> with high gain
[16:11] <TimZaman> >2db
[16:11] <fsphil> http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456
[16:12] <fsphil> cheapest anyway, there may be better
[16:12] <TimZaman> 6.15dbi?
[16:12] <fsphil> worked very well tracking the 300 baud flight
[16:12] <TimZaman> ebay's got cheaper ones
[16:12] <TimZaman> isnt it better to have a singleband antenna?
[16:13] <TimZaman> because i have one, but that one was rated at 2.5dbi or something, for 2m and 70cm just like this one
[16:13] <fsphil> all the dual bands I've seen have more gain on 70cm
[16:15] <TimZaman> but 7dbi seems like a lot
[16:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
[16:19] <TimZaman> also
[16:20] <TimZaman> how about tuners or something for 70cm
[16:23] <TimZaman> prefered filters.. etc
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[16:29] <jcoxon> broadband woohoo
[16:36] <fsphil> TimZaman, filter would be nice to have for the funcube dongle
[16:36] <fsphil> keep out all the out-of-band noise
[16:36] <fsphil> yay jcoxon :)
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[16:42] <jcoxon> not too bad an article on register
[16:43] Nick change: zeusbot_ -> zeusbot
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[16:45] <Darkside> yeah
[16:45] <Darkside> i'm wishing I didnt make the comments about english beer tho
[16:46] <Darkside> fsphil: i've orderes sone 434mhz SAW filters
[16:46] <Darkside> will make up some pcbs for them amd swnd you one
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[16:50] <Darkside> bbl
[16:50] <Darkside> walking
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[16:54] <fsphil> ooh, I didn't know there was as specific a filter tas that
[16:54] <Elwell> Darkside: how many are you getting made?
[16:54] <fsphil> *as
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[16:56] <fsphil> doggie walk time
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[17:21] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[17:22] <fsphil> hullo mattltm
[17:24] <Wild-Wing> hey man
[17:24] <mattltm> howdy fsphil, Wild-Wing
[17:24] <mattltm> Whats the word on the street?
[17:25] <Wild-Wing> well darkside set a new uk alt record
[17:25] <mattltm> Yup. Got that. I was one of a few stations tracking it. Shame its not official though :(
[17:25] <Wild-Wing> ah to us it is
[17:26] <mattltm> Yup :)
[17:26] <NigeyS> meh thats BS
[17:26] Action: NigeyS slaps arhab
[17:26] <Darkside> heh, thanks guys
[17:28] <fsphil> mattltm, it might be .. there seems to be some support to removing that rule :)
[17:28] <mattltm> that would be good. Seems like a bit of a stupid rule to me.
[17:28] <fsphil> well, one person has suggested it at least
[17:28] <fsphil> it is, very stupid
[17:28] <mattltm> Maybe we could bombard them with launch notifications :p
[17:29] <Wild-Wing> lol
[17:29] <mattltm> 1000 a day should soon do it :)
[17:29] <NigeyS> mailbomb! wooo
[17:29] <mattltm> Lol.
[17:29] <fsphil> an automatic script emailing a launch at an undefined location each day :)
[17:29] <mattltm> lol.
[17:29] <mattltm> I like it :)
[17:30] <Upu> now now :)
[17:30] <Wild-Wing> LMAO
[17:30] <mattltm> And I know someone who has a cluster of blade servers are 2048 IP addresses at their disposal :p
[17:31] <fsphil> mmm.. a week to get my permission+notam hopefully
[17:31] <Wild-Wing> lol
[17:32] <Wild-Wing> darkside do you think you will recover horus 15.5 in the future?
[17:32] <fsphil> please your bets that it arrives late
[17:32] <fsphil> place*
[17:32] <Darkside> Wild-Wing: i doubt it
[17:32] <Darkside> unless it washes up in denmark or something
[17:33] <Wild-Wing> hehe could it still be transmitting
[17:34] <Darkside> nope
[17:34] <Darkside> batteries would have long since run out
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[17:35] <Wild-Wing> ahhhh damn that could have been fun get a boat to find it
[17:36] <Darkside> the payload wasn't watertight, so it probably stopped transmitting soon after it hit the water
[17:37] <Wild-Wing> oh thats right i forgot you guys dont seal them tight
[17:37] <Darkside> well we wanted the pressure sensor to give useful readings
[17:40] <fsphil> wonder if you'd save weight by using AAA batteries
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[17:40] <fsphil> 4x AAA's are 31g
[17:40] <fsphil> 4x AAA's are 58g
[17:41] <Wild-Wing> how much did money did you lose into the sea
[17:42] <Wild-Wing> fsphill what do they weigh?
[17:42] Action: fsphil appears to be lagged
[17:43] Action: Wild-Wing lol my lag is 4 sec
[17:43] <fsphil> the little aaa's are about half the weight (not including battery holder)
[17:43] <fsphil> could spot weld them maybe, save more weight
[17:44] <Wild-Wing> lol thats insane try ducktape
[17:44] <fsphil> just need to find someone with the proper hardware :)
[17:44] <fsphil> spot welding is quite common for rechargable battery packs
[17:45] <Wild-Wing> yes it is now i remember
[17:45] <mattltm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9spgDiU3_nw
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[17:48] <NigeyS> hrm
[17:48] <Darkside> Wild-Wing: about $100
[17:48] <fsphil> that's safe lol
[17:49] <mattltm> That looks like a whole bug full of death!
[17:49] <Darkside> and yes fsphil using AAAs would save weight, but it would drop battery life
[17:49] <Darkside> i get about 8 hours out of AAAs
[17:49] <Darkside> and 20 hours out of AAs
[17:49] Nick change: Upu2 -> Upu
[17:49] <Darkside> in retrospect, 8 hours would have been enough for this flight, but i wasn't sure
[17:49] <Wild-Wing> ummmm fsphil thats insane
[17:50] <Wild-Wing> how long did the flight take
[17:50] <Darkside> 5 hours
[17:50] <Wild-Wing> and you have to take into account the amount each componet takes for amps
[17:50] <Darkside> Wild-Wing: well not really
[17:51] <Darkside> build it, wire it up, and measure the current consumption
[17:51] <Darkside> thats what i did anyway
[17:51] <Wild-Wing> thats very true
[17:52] <Darkside> MiniNut, with the current GPS unit, draws about 120 mA
[17:52] <Darkside> but thats mainly because the GPS unit has an active antenna
[17:53] <Darkside> micronut should be a bit lighter on the power draw
[17:54] <Wild-Wing> damn well i thought the mininut was awesome to look at nicely designed
[17:54] <Wild-Wing> how are you going to go smaller?!
[17:54] <Darkside> you might be thinking of the micronut
[17:54] <Wild-Wing> i remember seeing the mininut on your blog
[17:55] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/tEWBl.jpg thats micronut
[17:55] <Darkside> that PCB is 49.5 x 22.5 mm
[17:55] <Darkside> mininut was 5x5cm
[17:56] <DanielRichman> Darkside: that's badass. Which GPS are you using?
[17:56] <DanielRichman> also, when are you launching :P?
[17:56] <Darkside> ublox 6
[17:56] <Darkside> DanielRichman: well i sent the PCB off for manufacture today
[17:56] <Darkside> they should get delivered in australia about a week after i get back
[17:56] <Darkside> not sure when i'm getting the uBlox modules yet
[17:56] <Darkside> and i'm also waiting on the antennas
[17:56] <Wild-Wing> oh hell that miconut is sick man
[17:57] <DanielRichman> aww I was thinking you were going to do some rediculously fast turnaround and do another uk launch
[17:57] <Darkside> DanielRichman: hah
[17:57] <Darkside> i don't have the $$ to get the board made that fast
[17:57] <Darkside> plus i don't have all the parts
[17:57] <DanielRichman> :-(
[17:58] <Darkside> all the incidental components (0603s, regulator, atmega) have been ordered and will arrive in australia tomorrow
[17:58] <Darkside> (getting shipped to my uni)
[17:58] <Darkside> the PCBs should be there a week after i get back
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[17:59] <Darkside> but i'm not sure about the antennas and the ublox module
[17:59] <Darkside> i've ordered enough antennas and modules for 15 boards
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[17:59] <Wild-Wing> damn man thats sick
[18:00] <Darkside> DanielRichman: given teh weight savings i've made on this board, i might be able to do a party baloon launch as an initial test
[18:00] <Wild-Wing> hehe that would be cool some of those balloons can be big
[18:00] <Darkside> mm
[18:01] <Darkside> i've got a small pile of ATMegas and DS18B20s on order from sparfun
[18:01] <Darkside> and i've ordered a big pile of all the components i usually use for my boards from farnell
[18:01] <Darkside> the idea being i want a part library so i can make variations of either the mininut or the micronut boards
[18:01] <Darkside> the next thing i need is a bulk rate on NTX2s or similar
[18:02] <Wild-Wing> how does the ntx2 work
[18:04] <Darkside> its a tiny module filled with analogue magic
[18:04] <Wild-Wing> HAHA thats a good answer i love it
[18:04] <Elwell> never underestimate the importance of magic
[18:04] <Darkside> and blue smoke
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[18:06] <Wild-Wing> oh the lovely blue smoke i love it
[18:06] <daveake> So many devices have, in my experience, have had magic blue added during manufacture
[18:08] <daveake> I just wish they'd pack it in more securely
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[18:11] <Wild-Wing> lol
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[18:18] <Wild-Wing> booo
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[18:47] <TimZaman> fsphil: what filter would you advise? i guess for the yaesu 817 i dont need any attachments that could improve it right
[18:49] <Darkside> not for the 817, no
[18:49] <Darkside> i've got some filters on the way that i'll be testing with the funcube dongle when i get back
[18:49] <TimZaman> okidoki
[18:50] <TimZaman> the funcube seemed great but
[18:50] <TimZaman> i couldnt really make up myself talking when i talked into my yaesu and received that with the funcube
[18:51] <Darkside> uhhhhh
[18:51] <Darkside> were you transmitting FM?
[18:51] <Darkside> the funcube is a direct conversion receiver - you need to demodulate any signals you receive on it - thats what programs like SpectraVue are for
[18:52] <fsphil> they're neat little devices
[18:53] <Darkside> fsphil: i'll have to send you one of the filter pcbs if they turn out ok
[18:53] <fsphil> please do - how wide a filter do you think it'll be?
[18:54] <Darkside> spec says about 4 MHz
[18:54] <fsphil> oh that's loads
[18:54] <Darkside> it'll just help reduce intermod frm other stuff outside the band
[18:54] <Darkside> you can't get anything narrower
[18:55] <fsphil> I think if I plugged the fcd directly into the colinear on the roof it would be completly overloaded
[18:55] <Darkside> it will help with intermode issues from TETRA stations and the like
[18:55] <Darkside> intermod*
[18:55] <Darkside> and should stop overloading
[18:55] <fsphil> mine seems to have this thing where I see a negative of the signal on the bottom half of the spectrum
[18:56] <Darkside> thats somewhat normal
[18:56] <Darkside> its an IF image
[18:56] <Darkside> you can somewhat cancel it out by playing with the alpha and beta values in spetravue
[18:56] <fsphil> aaah, must have a play with that
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[19:09] <fsphil> anyone here get an HP TouchPad?
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> I tried.
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> At 350 quid - no way.
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> At 60 or 80 - way.
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> Even as only a web and mp3 player
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> Even as a picture frame
[19:11] <fsphil> yea
[19:11] <fsphil> thought about getting one just for web
[19:11] <fsphil> they didn't last long
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[19:25] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: you were interested in a SAW filter to cover the 434MHz spectrum?
[19:27] <Upu> evening all
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[19:29] <number10> evening adrian ;)
[19:29] <Upu> haha
[19:29] <Upu> I've been called worse
[19:29] <number10> sorry - couldn't help it
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[19:31] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: yes
[19:32] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: well, i've for a few SAW filters for 433MHz arriving soon, with a bandwidth around 5MHz
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> nice
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> can i 'borrow' one?
[19:33] <Darkside> once i make up a PCB for them, i'll probably send one out to you and fsphil
[19:33] <Upu> Evening Darkside
[19:34] <Darkside> ho Upu
[19:34] <Darkside> hi*
[19:34] <Darkside> >_>
[19:34] <Upu> got another payload and some gas ?
[19:34] <Darkside> not right now...
[19:34] <Upu> I have a 1600g Hyowee here
[19:34] <Darkside> give me a few weeks dammit
[19:34] <Darkside> i have payloads back in australia
[19:35] <Upu> shame want a payload called ARHABCANKISSMYASS
[19:35] <Darkside> i need to find out what juxta's stock levels are
[19:35] <Darkside> Upu: hahaha
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> Upu: Make a 10g payload, and go for a record!
[19:35] <Upu> my payload is too heavy
[19:35] <Darkside> Upu: i'll write that on the next payload
[19:35] <Upu> but I have a tin of gas and a balloon
[19:35] <Laurenceb_> nice thanks
[19:35] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: when payload << mass of balloon, it doens tmatter much
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> I know
[19:36] <Laurenceb_> unless you try a super thin zero pressure
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> But see recent 40km launch
[19:36] <Darkside> i emailed a compay today asking about zero pressure balloons
[19:36] <Darkside> waiting for a response
[19:36] <Darkside> would be fun to launch one
[19:37] <Upu> mail the one that sponsored PBH
[19:37] <Darkside> yeah
[19:37] <Darkside> i did
[19:37] <Upu> the gas used is about the same as a 1600g I think
[19:37] <Upu> about 3000L
[19:37] <Darkside> yep
[19:37] <Darkside> which is the interesting part about it
[19:37] <Upu> bit more
[19:37] <Darkside> even though the balloons are huge
[19:37] <Upu> are they expensive ?
[19:37] <Randomskk> I wonder how much is luck
[19:37] <Darkside> no idea
[19:37] <Darkside> i asked for the pricing
[19:38] <Randomskk> it'd be interesting to launch 10 or so superlight payloads on 1600g balloons with samish fill rates
[19:38] <Darkside> also we'd have to get casa clearance
[19:38] <Upu> CASA ?
[19:38] <Darkside> civil aviation safety authority
[19:38] <Upu> oh oz kk
[19:38] <Darkside> yup
[19:38] <Darkside> Randomskk: want the designs for MicroNut?
[19:38] <Upu> how much higher will they go ?
[19:38] <Darkside> Upu: no idea
[19:39] <Randomskk> Darkside: thanks but I'm okay, half the fun is designing it :P
[19:39] <Darkside> Randomskk: heh
[19:39] <Randomskk> a new little payload to stick on the side of things has been on the cusf project list for a while, anyway - we've got some neo6qs in stock for doing so
[19:39] <Darkside> where did you buy yours from?
[19:39] <Randomskk> ublox distributor
[19:39] <Upu> http://tetheredaerostat.com/pdf/Aerostar_small_zero_pressure_performance_curves.pdf
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[19:40] <Darkside> once i get through the 15 i've got being shipped i'll need to buy more
[19:40] <TimZaman> Darkside: if you have any 434 filters left let me know, im launching with the funcube in a few weeks
[19:41] <Randomskk> I think you'd have to ask jon, he ordered them
[19:41] <Darkside> TimZaman: they won't be ready in that sort a time
[19:41] <Darkside> short*
[19:41] <TimZaman> :) ok
[19:41] <Darkside> i have other stuff to deal with first
[19:41] <TimZaman> well lets see how they do without them
[19:41] <TimZaman> no sweat
[19:41] <Darkside> TimZaman: it'll work fine
[19:41] <Laurenceb_> hmm you need >4KM^3
[19:41] <Upu> sounds like you're keeping busy over here Darkside
[19:41] <Darkside> its just the funcube dongle is a bit deaf
[19:41] <Darkside> what'd be good is a SAW filter and a LNA
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> Tunable Saw would be good
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> SAW
[19:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Pyro cut downs not using gun powder"
[19:44] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: do they even exist
[19:44] <Darkside> other option is a helical filter
[19:49] <Darkside> those are tunable, though they can be a bit fidly
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[20:00] <SpeedEvil> http://jmckinley.posterous.com/dc-earthquake-devastation
[20:00] <Darkside> haha
[20:00] <Darkside> just like the quake in adelaide :P
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[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi m1x10 fsphil nickolai mattltm
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu SamSilver W0OTM
[20:12] <Upu> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:12] <daveake> [sob]
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> and hello TimZaman daveake
[20:12] <daveake> :)
[20:13] <Upu> haha
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> we got a new song
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> heard it on BFBS
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> "Spacebound" by Eminem
[20:13] fsphil-laptop (~phil@126.18.169.217.in-addr.arpa) joined #highaltitude.
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> does anyone know that song?
[20:17] Wild-Wing (~chatzilla@c-98-216-173-236.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:17] <Wild-Wing> hi
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi Wild-Wing
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[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> are you also doing Ballooning?
[20:25] <Wild-Wing> me well more like doing a crap load of research into it
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> but welcome to the club
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:26] m1x10 (~mixio@ppp046177141143.dsl.hol.gr) left irc:
[20:27] <Wild-Wing> hehe been watching the hab areas for a while its pretty cool
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> where are you from?
[20:27] <Wild-Wing> USA CT
[20:27] <Wild-Wing> U
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> I'm from north-western germany
[20:28] <Wild-Wing> wow
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:29] <Wild-Wing> did you hear the uk alt record was broken
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> we got many British, Americans, also one man from the Netherlands, Canada also
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> and South Africa of course, and Australia
[20:30] <daveake> And an Aussie, but we try not to mention him now :)
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:30] <TimZaman> fsphil: you here?
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> hi TimZaman
[20:30] <TimZaman> Lunar_Lander: hi
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[20:31] <TimZaman> good
[20:31] <TimZaman> playing with the funcube dongle
[20:32] <TimZaman> id like to listen to some FM radio with it for starters
[20:32] <TimZaman> but cant seem to get it running right
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> btw, I remembered something
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> when I got my radio scanner, I set it to the repeater that is on the roof of my Uni
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> and then mattltm was able to talk to me
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> means I could hear him in the scanner
[20:34] <TimZaman> mattltm?
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, he is here
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> but he didn't say much recently
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[20:38] <Wild-Wing> hi aaagirl!
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[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> strange people
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:39] <Wild-Wing> lol
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> what is CT?
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> you said you are from there
[20:40] <Wild-Wing> the state abv
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> the Perkin-Elmer state, right?
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:43] <Wild-Wing> i dont know
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> but CT is conneticut, right?
[20:50] <jiffe> connecticut
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[21:45] <Laurenceb_> theres aaagirl on the internet?!
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> lies
[21:47] <daveake> I think it's just a rumour
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[21:50] <daveake> Saw this earlier ... so true ... http://thumbsnap.com/s/VmUvOv2H.jpg
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[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi Laurenceb_ and wb Wild-Wing
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> yo
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[22:07] <Laurenceb_> bored
[22:07] Action: Laurenceb_ was wondering about making a mini butane powered power supply
[22:08] Action: fsphil was babysitting, but is free now
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> http://www.marlow.com/power-generators/
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil : Tim asked for you earlier
[22:09] <fsphil> see that
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:09] <fsphil> spectravue can do fm
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> its actually quite effective as theres so much energy in there
[22:09] <fsphil> I can listen to the analogue tv stations with it :)
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> problem is all the waste heat and what to do with it
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah Laurenceb_ I saw a radio on youtube that was powered by a candle
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> neat
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> those things i linked are quite a bit more efficient
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> the flight at Lake Constance had one of those
[22:12] <fsphil> telestereoscope -- that's a cool word
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> they said that they wanted to use the heat of the transmitter and the cold outside to create power
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> but the recorder to that experiment failed
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> but do the transmitters really heat up so much?
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> Someone linked me to http://twitter.com/#!/Candie_CaneMFC/status/106087977976999937/photo/1 (nsfw) parachute-related
[22:15] <Laurenceb_> where can i find heatsinks with datasheets?
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[22:17] <fsphil> datasheets don't get that hot
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[22:18] <Laurenceb_> lol
[22:18] <fsphil> nah, no lols that was awful :)
[22:18] Action: fsphil goes to bed
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> hmm maybe you could run off lighter fluid
[22:21] <Wild-Wing> laurenceb_ its posible to use a peilter unit to power something its just the temp difference you need to create
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> peltiers are woefully inefficient at making power from temeprature difference.
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> i know, but efficiency is poor
[22:22] <Wild-Wing> thats basicly what that is
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> http://www.marlow.com/power-generators/ <- way better than normal peltiers
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: heatsinks generally simply have c/w figures.
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> Maybe mechanical data
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> 5% is actually useful
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> itd be hard to get much above that with a micro heat engine
[22:22] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a really teeny triple expander steam engine.
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> you can get 3 to 4 times the energy density of the best lipo cells
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> the problem is what to do with all the excess heat
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> 44kJ/Kg
[22:23] <Randomskk> cup of tea?
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> you dont want to heat up the 'cold' side too much
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> cold needs to be <50C
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> Oops - 44MJ/Kg
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> kg
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> hmm surely someones built something like this for the military, if its this easy
[22:24] <Wild-Wing> is that greater than or less than
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - I get 3 or 4 times in the extreme case too
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> if you combine with the catalytic combustors as used in gas soldering irons
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> its quite practical to use
[22:25] Action: Laurenceb_ pictures military rucksack with jet engine level hot air blast out of the site
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> but to repeat my questions
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> do the transmitter modules really heat up that much in flight?
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> From memory, the best teeny model engines get ~10%
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: What transmitter modules.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> The 10mW ones - no
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> They produce maybe 50mW heat
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> tops
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> probably a bit less than this
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> military tend to use more durable stuff than lipo as well
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> The whole payload may warm up, especially if there is a camera
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> so the advantage is even better, as butane stores well
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> the team at Lake Constance used 200 mW
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> A camera may draw several watts
[22:28] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about steam turbine.
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> all the darpa guys are working on helium micro resonating sterling engines
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> free piston and displacer
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> how small are these?
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> at a few hundered Hz using coil and stuff
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> matchbox size and up
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds like a small engine
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> also http://www.whispergen.com/main/technology/
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: free piston is fun
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> There are interesting double acting free piston engines
[22:31] <Wild-Wing> oh boy
[22:32] Action: SpeedEvil is now 40% through getting solar-thermal panel on roof. :)
[22:33] <Wild-Wing> thats awesome amn
[22:33] <Wild-Wing> *man
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[22:34] <Wild-Wing> any one ever used a joule theif in a hab?
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[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> you mean an "energy harvester"?
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> that four cylinder design is genius
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> - in the pdf
[22:36] <Wild-Wing> yea i guess you could call it that
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> as I said above, there is a team here: www.ballonprojekt.de
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> Wild-Wing: pointless
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> they had a Peltier element, on one side the cold of the outside, on the other side the TX module
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> but SpeedEvil just said it
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> Wild-Wing: There is so little energy available below ~0.9V in alkaline, it's generally useless.
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> the efficiency is near to nothing
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Wild-Wing: It's better to simply optimise efficiency
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: 200mW *5% (you won't get 5%) = ~0
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[22:37] <Randomskk> hi stars-project, you mentioned wanting to launch from cambridge earlier?
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> also, I think that 200 mW of radio output won't be as much heat power
[22:38] <stars-project> Hi - yep, we'd like to launch from Churchill, ideally Sept 24
[22:38] <Randomskk> hmm
[22:38] <stars-project> hmm?
[22:38] <Randomskk> that might be tricky. I go back to cambridge that day
[22:39] <Randomskk> depends, how much assisstance do you need?
[22:39] <Randomskk> if you think you're mostly set I can turn up, phone the tower, be there, etc and it's all fine.
[22:39] <Randomskk> if you need to borrow filling kit (you will have to supply your own helium any which way) or need other assistance I might not be available
[22:39] <Randomskk> as far as I know jonsowman won't be up then at all
[22:39] <stars-project> I'm hoping we'll be reasonably self-sufficient, but it would be nice if I could have an observer group from the Cambridge Young Astronomers (+parents)
[22:39] <Randomskk> roughly how many, roughly how old?
[22:40] <Randomskk> I don't have a problem with it, but it complicates getting permission from the college - mainly we'll just have to let them know and the kids will all need permission letters or whatever
[22:40] <stars-project> Ages 7-11. Daughter's a member.
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> hi stars-project
[22:40] <stars-project> Hi LL
[22:40] <Randomskk> okay. definitely need parents with them or such and permission letters, I'll have to check what exactly we need for that and if just one of us is enough
[22:41] <Randomskk> were you thinking am or pm?
[22:41] <Randomskk> (were you thinking of chasing?)
[22:41] <Randomskk> (I guess so)
[22:41] <stars-project> We'd arrange some sort of barrier (jsut a rope, or similar) so that the observers can't get into the mix
[22:41] <stars-project> Deinitely chasing. so after the launch, it'd just be the mission group doing that, the kids would disperse
[22:42] <Randomskk> that's cool, also not my conern post-launch really, you could do whatever you want
[22:42] <stars-project> Parents and/or CYA organisers _will_ be there!
[22:42] <Randomskk> so leaning more towards morning than afternoon?
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> stars project eh?
[22:42] <stars-project> (Actually, you'd probably need force to keep 'em away!)
[22:42] <Laurenceb_> *brian cox voiseover*
[22:42] <stars-project> Laurence: *shudder*!
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[22:42] <Randomskk> also: you do realise that the winds are pretty unpredictable, no chance of guessing this far in advance, so you may find you have to abort the mission shortly before hand
[22:43] <Randomskk> I mean, probably you do, just checking
[22:43] <Randomskk> otherwise it can be issues with kids and permission forms and getting everything organised and then suddenly you're in a very hard spot
[22:43] <Randomskk> where everyone wants you to launch, everything is set up, but the winds suggest it'l go in the drink
[22:43] <stars-project> That's completely understood. I'm hoping we might have a bit of tail-end inversion, or something similarly stable, but autumn winds are notorious
[22:44] <stars-project> Background: I'm a sometime glider pilot, and power student, so met stuff is home territory
[22:44] <Randomskk> great, okay
[22:44] <Randomskk> so early afternoon is probably the earliest I can do on the 24th - will be driving up and unloading car in the morning
[22:45] <stars-project> It would be purely informal from the CYA side, and we'd manage expectations. Even if it goes pear-shaped, the kids see the decision process, and understand that science sometimes is at the whims of something Bigger!#
[22:45] <Randomskk> a learning experience all around :P
[22:45] <Randomskk> plus with a payload ready to go you can always reschedule
[22:46] <Randomskk> if you're as ready to go as you think then getting it launched early afternoon should give you plenty of time to chase, but if you want to go for something earlier I could do the sunday
[22:46] <stars-project> Early afternoon might be a prob - ascent phase will prob be ~2.5hr even with H2 fill, 3hr with He, we want to recover before dark!
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4nlbL8Zkc4&feature=player_embedded#!
[22:46] <Randomskk> you're considering H2?
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> *brain explosion*
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> how the hell do they get rotary motion
[22:47] <stars-project> Definitely. Understand the ESD risks, and obviously the accidental ignition risks, but main prob will be slow fill due to restrictor (as Darkside mentioned earlier)
[22:47] <Randomskk> will probably have additional implications from our side
[22:47] <Randomskk> not sure what they are, either
[22:47] <Randomskk> I'll investigate
[22:48] <stars-project> Really? I was told UKHAS Churchill launches with H2 have been done befoer without probs
[22:48] <stars-project> (Nuts, reboot fingers...)
[22:48] <Randomskk> hm
[22:49] <Randomskk> remember any project names, or who told you, or anything along those lines?
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: It reminds me of a harmonic drive
[22:49] <stars-project> Darkside, this AM. Hang on, I'll find the transcript...
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> H2 needs more safety stuff
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> grounding all metal parts and so on
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Are the 'brushes' moving over the circular bit magnets?
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> dunno
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> im confused by the bearing units everywhere
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> It's sort of a rotary ratchet
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> Cunning.
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> i dont get why they bother, everyone else sticks a coil on the end
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> or a magnet, and runs at a few hundered Hz
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[22:52] <Laurenceb_> simpler and you can do clever phasing control stuff
[22:52] <stars-project> Yep, Darkside it was.
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> stars-project : what do you plan to do with your balloon?
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> hello Dan-K2VOL
[22:52] <stars-project> http://stars-project.adeptium.com/
[22:52] <Randomskk> so I see Darkside talking but don't see him referring to someone else doing h2 from chu?
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: theres also the acoustic resonance stirling engines
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> a little like valveless pulsejets
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> that wispergen thing is very clever but it must cost a fortune
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMi5I3-uno&feature=related
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> thanks stars-project
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> whispergen looks like a dead-end for getting it cheap
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> they are selling it under subsidy tho
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[22:55] <Randomskk> stars-project: I think I'd strongly recommend helium, on both safety and practicality grounds
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9d929JhdHM&feature=related - actual cutaways - barking mad
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> i know a guy doing a PhD on stirling generators for RTG spacecraft power
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Subsidy is totally evil.
[22:55] <stars-project> Oops, my mitsake, did discuss H2 with DS earlier, but it came up in email conversation with Anthony Stirk, who has launched with H2. Don't know if at Churchill, though. Comes of 4hrs sleep, sorry for confusion.
[22:56] <Randomskk> no problem - yea, anthony's launched with h2 though it wasn't from churchill and is pretty much the only person to have done so, that I can remember (in the UK at least)
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> hes using hermetically sealed signle piston design
[22:56] <Randomskk> and that was for a TV program :P
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> magnets at the cold end and coil in the end of the piston
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> Now this is what you want!
[22:56] <stars-project> I'd prefer to use He, to be honest. I've had the offer of a 1600gm balloon, and if we can get that, we'll use He, as the ascent time issue will go away.
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> its helium filled and runs _fast_
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=5t5qb0GWnsg
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> The ideal engine for a small heat source.
[22:57] <Randomskk> stars-project: sorry for being boring, one other qualm - what's the commercial nature of the project?
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> wow
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc01A9iMqE8&feature=related
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> That is a work of art!
[22:58] <Randomskk> mainly just asking as it can cause complications internally as to what we support for free vs where we ask for a donation to society running costs and the like - the boundary is typically drawn between between commercial/advertisement launches and hobbyists/educational
[22:58] <Randomskk> though it's subject to spirited debate :P
[22:59] <stars-project> Like the Stirling engine vid - interesting. Big end looks rather like helo rotor head.
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> the stirling helicopter made me lol
[23:00] <Randomskk> stars-project: also (and I will stop bugging you any time now) I note you mention APRS on your website, you do realise you can't use APRS in the air in the UK?
[23:00] <stars-project> It's kinda half one, half the other. What sort of donation?
[23:01] <stars-project> Nuts, meant to remove that - sorry.
[23:01] <stars-project> I'll remove that reference when I get a round tuit.
[23:01] <stars-project> Not bugging at all, BTW.a It's all good.
[23:03] <stars-project> Randomskk: you still there? Not turned into a pumpkin? :)
[23:03] <Randomskk> still here, sorry - see msg
[23:03] <Randomskk> should have popped up on your IRC client somewhere :P
[23:04] <Randomskk> and yea, no worries, just checking you weren't planning to launch a ham radio :P
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[23:04] <stars-project> Gotcha - wondering what the *plinking glass* sound was...using an unfamiliar web IRC client
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> stars-project : you are surely focusing on science
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> I am just on the "instrumentation" page
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> stars-project : I really hope you succeed and won't only fly once!
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:17] <stars-project> Definitely focusing on science, but also testing the waters (and some extra kit like baro sensors) for future flights.
[23:18] <stars-project> However - gotta go, barely keeping awake. TTFN for now!
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[23:19] <natrium42> was geht ab, Lunar_Lander?
[23:19] <natrium42> alles krass oder was?
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> ja :)!
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> und bei dir?
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[23:22] <hibby_> Dan-K2VOL: lvl1 tonight?
[23:23] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: alles konkret <3
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> :) cool
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 24 2011