highaltitude.log.20110821

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[06:57] <m1x10> kaymont got new site
[06:57] <m1x10> http://kaymontballoons.com/Near_Space_Photography.html
[06:59] <mattltm> Morning all :)
[07:06] <Upu> morning
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[07:07] <mattltm> Hi Upu :)
[07:13] <SamSilver> not safe for children > https://picasaweb.google.com/118244444241111963790/201107ManLab?authkey=Gv1sRgCLLdyqux5_buDw#5635428157159046018
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[07:26] <mattltm> lol.
[07:28] <natrium42> m1x10: wow, they finally endorsed HAB
[07:38] <fsphil> looks like someone is going to launch in ROI, using a spot to track: http://t.co/5psFKyW
[07:43] <fsphil> oh ar: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=13bc22fa4d7e0a8f33b0096e3fadfc1d647b9119
[07:43] <fsphil> I wouldn't recommend it :)
[07:47] <mattltm> Splash!
[07:47] <mattltm> Morning fsphil :)
[07:47] <fsphil> g'morning mattltm
[07:48] <mattltm> How goes it?
[07:49] <fsphil> too early to say :)
[07:49] <fsphil> you?
[07:49] <fsphil> ooh sun is out
[07:49] <m1x10> SamSilver: after you liked the facebook page more and more people follow you :)
[07:49] <m1x10> natrium42: what?
[07:50] <m1x10> hi phill :)
[07:50] <number10> maybe I should go up to Cromer - get some crab and see if I can see Darksides payload
[07:50] <mattltm> fsphil: I have my orders to move the LCD tv in the lounge and put some shelfs up. Fun fun fun.
[07:53] <fsphil> morning m1x10 :)
[07:53] <SamSilver> m1x10: kewl
[07:53] <fsphil> mattltm, oheck
[07:54] <fsphil> I've to install windows 7 on a laptop :(
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[07:54] <fsphil> after that I'm driving up a mountain, catch some photons
[07:58] <Upu> SamSilver there was a camera in its arsehole
[07:58] <m1x10> Some greek guy mailed me and offered me funding :)
[07:58] <mattltm> Looks like a bit of a bum job to me :p
[07:59] <m1x10> damn that facebook page is good
[08:00] Action: fsphil hands mattltm his coat
[08:00] <mattltm> Ta :)
[08:02] <SamSilver> Upu Right!!!
[08:02] <SamSilver> ;)
[08:03] <SamSilver> afk
[08:04] <fsphil> not the worse place to stick a gopro :)
[08:16] <m1x10> so what happened with the Horus 15.5?
[08:16] <m1x10> 40km?
[08:16] <Upu> and then some
[08:16] <Upu> afk
[08:16] <m1x10> is it set on the world record list?
[08:18] <Upu> we believe 2nd
[08:19] <Upu> certain the highest "true" amateur one
[08:20] <Upu> The one that beat it was sponsored by Lockheed Martin
[08:21] <m1x10> oh
[08:21] <m1x10> die
[08:21] <m1x10> martin
[08:21] <m1x10> :)
[08:22] <m1x10> amateur power!
[08:22] <fsphil> it's going to be really tough to beat that
[08:23] <Upu> dunno 2000g Hwoyee and no gas :)
[08:24] <fsphil> ooh
[08:24] <fsphil> H2
[08:24] <fsphil> H2 + 2000g balloon
[08:24] <fsphil> though the warning sign will weight it down :)
[08:28] <fsphil> oooh breakfast time..
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[08:51] <m1x10> those are the surrounding of my launch site: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318212_273918522622199_259791880701530_1260955_8380162_n.jpg
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[09:17] <eroomde> morning all
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[09:24] <number10> morning
[09:40] <fsphil> another sunny one here
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[09:57] <RocketBoy> did anyone make any sense of the pressure data from the flight yesterday - any clues what happened to the sensor >37Kft?
[09:58] <RocketBoy> >37km
[10:02] <Upu> I think the sensor broken
[10:02] <Upu> but the data & altitude were consistant all the way up to that point you could work out with 500m the altitude from the pressure
[10:02] <Upu> within 500m
[10:03] <Upu> and i'm sure if you knew how to compensate for temperature it would be even more accurate than that
[10:03] <Upu> ok off to make some pyros
[10:03] <Upu> bbs
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> it broke at about 300Pa or something
[10:07] <m1x10> fsphil you are irish we said?
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[10:08] <m1x10> i just sew a documentaryabout ireland
[10:08] <m1x10> its so exotic
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[10:13] <SamSilver_> m1x10: have you seen my launch site?
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> fsphil is indeed irish.
[10:14] <m1x10> SamSilver:no
[10:14] <theorbtwo> I was wondering -- anybody know how cheaply one could make a dedicated radio for dl-fldigi? It seems to my completely untrained mind that making something that *just* does 70cm single side band should be easy.
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> theorbtwo: Probably $20 or so in volume.
[10:15] <SamSilver_> Groovy Launch site > http://maps.google.co.za/maps?hl=en&ll=-29.552311,29.979115&spn=0.009277,0.019205&t=h&z=16
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> (@1K)
[10:15] <m1x10> fsphil: you lucky that west east long beach is soooooo awesome
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> theorbtwo: the one-off cost is quite a bit more.
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb keeps threatening to make a small USB reciever that can do it.
[10:16] <SpeedEvil> But I gather he's snowed under.
[10:16] <theorbtwo> SpeedEvil: Hm, so 40 in singles, maybe?
[10:16] <m1x10> SamSilver ?
[10:16] <m1x10> south africa ?
[10:16] <theorbtwo> Universal serial bus, or upper side band?
[10:16] <SamSilver_> Yes m1x10
[10:16] <m1x10> wtf
[10:16] <m1x10> what are you doing down there?
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> theorbtwo: No, $150 or so in singles probably.
[10:17] <SpeedEvil> theorbtwo: Counting several revisions, and not counting time at all
[10:17] <SamSilver_> fighting with th wild animals :p
[10:17] <theorbtwo> Yow.
[10:18] <m1x10> safari? lol. i want too.
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> theorbtwo: It's not trivial enough you will probably want several revisions of the PCB
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> theorbtwo: And that blows up costs a fair bit.
[10:18] <SamSilver_> m1x10: www.thorntreelodgepmb.co.za
[10:18] <BrainDamage> doesn't 150$ approaches cubesat radio cost?
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: yes - but not the ~$20 or so you could get it down to
[10:19] <SpeedEvil> For a slightly more limited device.
[10:20] <BrainDamage> yes, I'm wondering if there's the market for it tough
[10:20] <m1x10> SamSilver: lol
[10:20] <m1x10> SamSilver: really tell me why there?
[10:20] <BrainDamage> I'd espect, 100-200 users top
[10:20] <m1x10> im curious
[10:20] <SamSilver_> thats where I live
[10:20] <SamSilver_> was born here
[10:21] <m1x10> oh
[10:21] <theorbtwo> BrainDamage: Depends on what else uses that band, I suppose. If you can get more uses out of it for not much more hardware cost, then it makes it a more attractive thing as more then a personal project.
[10:22] <theorbtwo> ...and at the money we're talking about, it makes a lot more sense to just buy a radio unless you are interested in doing it on it's own merits, or you are going to sell them.
[10:22] <theorbtwo> Neither really applies to me, I just saw the map of listeners, and found out there were none near me.
[10:22] <m1x10> SamSilver_: !
[10:23] <SamSilver_> huh
[10:23] <m1x10> SamSilver_: im amazed :)
[10:24] <SamSilver_> I had monkeys on my roof this morning
[10:24] <m1x10> will you accomodate me if i ever find money to make a trip there
[10:24] <m1x10> ?
[10:24] <m1x10> :)
[10:24] <SamSilver_> there are 3 type of buck that vist my garden
[10:24] <m1x10> oh I love monkeys. I look like them
[10:24] <SamSilver_> sure I got beeeg house
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[10:25] Action: theorbtwo put up a decidedly low-altitude baloon t'other day, which was much fun, and then read about Horus 15.5, thought I'd have a poke around.
[10:25] <SamSilver_> 400 m^2
[10:25] <m1x10> lol mine is 90m^2
[10:25] <m1x10> and how someone can come there? by plane?
[10:26] <SamSilver_> yes plane good
[10:26] <m1x10> im afraid of planes
[10:26] <m1x10> :(
[10:26] <m1x10> something else?
[10:26] <SamSilver_> Land Rover
[10:27] <SamSilver_> http://www.kingshakainternational.co.za/
[10:33] <fsphil> m1x10, well.. northern irish :)
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[10:36] <m1x10> SamSilver_: I need to stop being afraid of planes i think!
[10:36] <m1x10> fsphil: have you ever gone to west east?
[10:37] <SamSilver_> fsphil: that is what is great about typing here no accent to decypher
[10:37] <fsphil> m1x10, I've been along the north and east (east coast yesterday infact)
[10:37] <m1x10> Some guy just called me and told me he can buy me all the nesessary equipment for HAB !!!!!!
[10:37] <fsphil> agreed SamSilver :) the conference will be fun :)
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[10:38] <m1x10> lol
[10:38] <SamSilver_> I pronounce the word "like" as "laaik"
[10:38] <m1x10> im 1% happy
[10:38] <fsphil> common ones here are door: "duur"
[10:39] <fsphil> window: "windy"
[10:39] <m1x10> fsphil: west east rulez
[10:39] <SamSilver_> and a good friend is a "buddy" or a "boet" darkside prefers "mate" or the C word
[10:40] <daveake> I was in New Zealand once and the guy I was working with asked "Do you wanna come back to my place and see by new dick?"
[10:40] <fsphil> lol
[10:40] <SamSilver_> lol
[10:40] <daveake> Of course he meant "deck" :)
[10:40] <daveake> Fortunately
[10:40] <fsphil> that could have ended badly
[10:40] <daveake> Especially as he'd had it extended
[10:41] <SamSilver_> A New Zealander asked me if I had seen his "chopper" we were at an airshow not too much of a prob
[10:41] <daveake> :)
[10:43] <fsphil> Darkside, hope your live video is better than this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO12OmJEc_A :)
[10:46] <daveake> Blimey. Someone thought tht was worth uploading!
[10:46] <SamSilver_> fsphil: it was like being on acid
[10:49] <fsphil> so is that what skydiving is really like? :)
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[11:27] <SamSilver_> bbl
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[12:14] Nick change: spacekittun -> spacekitteh
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[12:19] <fsphil> the guy launching from ireland has delayed. new prediction (guessing parameters) land it not far from me: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=f2d7e8b1d999f12cf06f3a1e4f5e57c68e2c1190
[12:20] <Darkside> what frequency?
[12:21] <fsphil> spot tracker
[12:21] <Darkside> aww
[12:21] <fsphil> yea
[12:21] <Darkside> bbl
[12:21] <fsphil> I'd hate not knowing the altitude :) though there might be a logger onboard
[12:25] <daveake> When I started I was just going to use an SMS tracker, but once I read about the RTTY thing that was an obvious choice.
[12:33] <daveake> Off topic but this is funny .. friend of a friend works at PCWorld Croydon. They had 2 guys turn up asking them to remove the slideshow demo software from some MacBooks that were stolen during the riots. Arrests followed :-)
[12:33] <fsphil> if only getting a suitable receiver was easier
[12:33] <fsphil> lol
[12:34] <fsphil> not the brightest sparks
[12:34] <daveake> Nope!
[12:34] <daveake> Took me 3 attempts on ebay to get my AOR.
[12:34] <fsphil> we need something like the funcube dongle, but dedicated for 70cm
[12:36] <daveake> I know sqrt(0) about the funcube dongle, but what's wrong with using that? Not sensitive enough?
[12:36] <SpeedEvil> It's a bit expensive
[12:36] <daveake> OK
[12:36] <fsphil> yea, £120
[12:37] <fsphil> it's sensitive enough, but lacks good filtering
[12:37] <daveake> So about the same as a FT790r on ebay
[12:37] <daveake> ok
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> And 'proper' radios come up at that preice, and have actual filtering.
[12:37] <Laurenceb_> fsphil: seen my sdr?
[12:37] <fsphil> any reasonably strong nearby signal will mess with it
[12:37] <daveake> Ah, not good
[12:37] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio
[12:37] <Laurenceb_> im not sure how well that solves your problem
[12:37] <fsphil> I think so Laurenceb_, how far did you get with it?
[12:38] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: next trick is to have a micro talk to the CC1020 and appear as an I2S audio device
[12:38] <Laurenceb_> ive got it running
[12:38] <fsphil> funcube+70cm filter would work nicely, but then you're probably paying more than a good scanner
[12:39] <Laurenceb_> i ended up adding an lna on the front
[12:39] <Laurenceb_> as the cc1020 noise figure is something like 11dB
[12:39] <Darkside> eew
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[12:40] <Laurenceb_> theres nothing to stop you sticking an lna on the front
[12:40] <Darkside> yes
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> How is the filter?
[12:40] <Darkside> what bandwidth can you pull out of it?
[12:40] <Laurenceb_> depends on the micro
[12:41] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: hmm
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: That is - what's the bandwidth, and what's the rejection outside that bandwidth, and can that badwidth be reduced
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> i struggled to get 20kHz out with an avr
[12:41] <Darkside> you could probably use a STM32 or something to talk USB and appear as a USB audio device
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> you can get 200KHz with something decent
[12:41] <Darkside> now that'd be cool
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> the rejection is supposed to be quite decent outside the 200khz
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> the problem is its only got 3 bit adcs
[12:42] <Darkside> eek
[12:42] <Darkside> thats shit
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> so a strong signal within the 200khz can give you issues with the AGC
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> not necessarily, its quite oversampled
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> 2Msps or so for the I and Q adcs
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> most GPS front ends are 1 bit
[12:43] <Darkside> mm ok
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> funcube dongle is better in many respects
[12:43] <Darkside> wide tuning range is nice
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> but it suffers from the archecture
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> xtal->pll multipler->divider
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> you get shit tons of harmonics
[12:44] <Darkside> i'd like to know what the IP3 performance is of the tuner on it
[12:44] <Darkside> i know its not the best
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> itll be horrendous
[12:44] <Darkside> yeah
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> thats the problem
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> those DVBT chipsets need a SAW on the front
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> if you read any of the app notes for them
[12:45] <Laurenceb_> cc1020 is just 434 and 868, and has dedicated VCOs operating at each frequency
[12:45] <Laurenceb_> so you dont have the harmonics problem with the LO
[12:45] <Darkside> it much ahrder to get data out of though
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah you have to dump registers over spi very fast and with tight timing wrt to sync pin
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> its a little fiddly, hence why i could only get 20khz bandwidth out with the avr
[12:48] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> but yeah before i tried the cc1020, i thought of DVBT tuners
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> but thought the harmonics issue would be horrible so gave up
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> interestingly funcube does to seem to 'work'
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> but it breaks every rule in the app note
[12:51] <Darkside> its a tradeoff for sure
[12:51] <Darkside> wide tuning vs good performance
[12:51] <Darkside> i'd be inclined to make up a few filters
[12:51] <Darkside> get some nice minicircuits helical filters
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> yeah an inline lna->saw filter with sma connectors
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> can funcube supply dc along the coax?
[12:53] <Darkside> yes
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> cool
[12:53] <Darkside> not sure if its in the current firmware
[12:53] <Darkside> but it does have a 5v bias tee
[12:53] <Laurenceb_> i added it onto the cc1020 eval board
[12:54] <Darkside> http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/RBP-440+.pdf
[12:54] <Darkside> hmm come to think of it that might not be sharp enough
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> i dunno, itll take out the harmonics
[12:55] <Darkside> http://www.spectrummicrowave.com/pdf/saw/SF0434BA02507S.pdf
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cypress.com/?mpn=CYUSB3014-BZXIES#Inventory
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> This looks very, very interesting.
[12:55] <Laurenceb_> saw works best for very narrow
[12:55] <Darkside> theres something better
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> I need to read the datasheet properly.
[12:56] <Upu> hehe just did a pyro test :)
[12:56] <Upu> they are cool :)
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> But it seems to be a USB3 thingy that can do tens of megabytes/second streaming with a flexible fast GPIO unit.
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: wow nice
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> That can do 8-32 bit busses.
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> that saw looks perfect
[12:56] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: no idea where yo get them
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> And is configurable to do FIFOs and stuff.
[12:56] <Darkside> i know digikey has 434MHZ SAW filters
[12:57] Action: SpeedEvil wonders on the Q of coax filters.
[12:57] <Darkside> http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/674733-filter-saw-434-000mhz-smd-afs434s3.html
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> looks good
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> i guess we only really need narrowband
[12:58] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: http://au.element14.com/epcos/b39431b3710u410/saw-filter-rf-433-92mhz/dp/1791906
[12:58] <Darkside> there we go
[12:58] <Darkside> that looks perfect
[12:58] <Laurenceb_> you could even just hack it onto some coax
[12:58] <Darkside> i might make up some breakouts for a few
[12:59] <Darkside> and have the option for a little minicircuits LNA in line
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> ideally you want the LNA in the antenni
[12:59] <Darkside> but you'd want to put the LNA after the SAW filter, right?
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> ive built an active yagi
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> no no
[12:59] <NigelMoby> Hmm, what's all this for then?
[13:00] <Darkside> ooh ok
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> stick it before, lnas have very low harmonic distortion
[13:00] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: i'd have to send the 5v around the SAW filter the ni guess
[13:00] <Darkside> but an inductor will do that
[13:01] <Darkside> fun thing is, we're not going to be using 434MHZ anymore :P
[13:01] <Darkside> we're (hopefully) switching to 2m for all of our telemetry
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[13:02] <Laurenceb_> not in the uk surely
[13:02] <Darkside> no
[13:02] <Darkside> in australia
[13:03] <NigelMoby> No fair!
[13:03] <fsphil> payload running at 1200 baud, packing up to do a range test
[13:03] <Darkside> fsphil: ooooh
[13:03] <Darkside> nice
[13:04] <NigelMoby> Phils feeling brave :)
[13:04] <fsphil> lol
[13:04] <Darkside> i should try and fun my payload at 1200 baug
[13:04] <Darkside> OH WAIT i dont have it anymore
[13:04] <Darkside> >_>
[13:04] <NigelMoby> Lol
[13:04] <NigelMoby> It was worth the sacrifice
[13:04] <Darkside> yeah
[13:04] <Darkside> totally
[13:05] <NigelMoby> U should email howyee and tell them their balloon got to 40k
[13:05] <Darkside> i should email bosch and tell them their sensor didn't
[13:06] <NigelMoby> Lol that was a shame mind. It was so close!
[13:08] <daveake> Did you put an address or phone number on it, in case it does wash up on a beach in Denmark?
[13:09] <Darkside> email address
[13:10] <Darkside> dunno if the sharpie writing will wash off tho
[13:10] <daveake> Solvent-based so should be OK
[13:12] <daveake> I've been trying to shave the grams off of Buzz1, in the hope of getting as high as possible
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> Put a small blue rectangular section of towel on it instead.
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> Towelie should be the perfect mascot for HA.
[13:14] <daveake> Towelie? Have I missed something?
[13:14] <Darkside> hahahahaha
[13:14] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: wanna get high?
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> South Park
[13:16] <daveake> Ah. Not watched much of that.
[13:18] <daveake> Mrs Dave tells me that Clinique make an "Anti Gravity Firming Eye Lift Cream". Maybe I should rub a tub of that into the payload.
[13:18] <NigelMoby> Lol
[13:21] <Laurenceb_> what was the lowest pressure from the bmp085?
[13:21] <Darkside> about 2hPa i think
[13:21] <Laurenceb_> nice
[13:21] <Darkside> the data from the 'broken' period still correlated with the altitude though
[13:21] <Darkside> correlates*
[13:22] <Darkside> as in, it follows the altitude trace quite well
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> So it's a nonlinearity thing?
[13:24] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> it was reporting about 2bar right?
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> do you have a graph?
[13:25] <Darkside> i can make one
[13:25] <Darkside> hold
[13:28] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mthD2gixVjQ
[13:28] <Upu> biga bada boom
[13:30] <daveake> Nice :)
[13:31] <Upu> circuit didn't work
[13:31] <Upu> so will need to look at that
[13:31] <Upu> but the pyro most defintely did
[13:31] <daveake> I noticed
[13:31] <Upu> afk a few need to go tidy up :)
[13:32] <daveake> I'm using nichrome on buzz1. Which reminds me I need to order some FETs
[13:34] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: http://i.imgur.com/Rw0IV.png
[13:35] <daveake> Can you figure out the mapping from received value to real value, making it tie in with the good data at both ends?
[13:35] <Darkside> maybe
[13:37] <daveake> I need to figure out what went wrong with my sensor (SCP1000) on my flight. It was fine on the ground and for a distance up, but then kept swapping between 2 particular (and wrong) values.
[13:37] <daveake> The code I just copied from something on the web. I've compared with the data sheet and it looks OK
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[14:01] <NigelMoby> Hm
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[14:05] NigeyS (~EcEnTiAl@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:09] <NigeyS> The emergency services undertook a night-time search of Loch Ness after reports a balloon-like object had fallen from the sky.
[14:09] <NigeyS> ok so who launched in scotland yesterday? :P
[14:10] <Darkside> lol
[14:10] <Darkside> probably a met balloon
[14:10] <daveake> "members of the public said they saw a blue object fall on the south of the Loch"
[14:11] <daveake> Who uses blue, then?
[14:11] <Darkside> dunno
[14:11] <NigeyS> not i !
[14:11] <NigeyS> marshal uses blue balloons but he's in the states...
[14:12] <daveake> I'm looking forward to the reports for buzz1 .. "A UFO object was seen to fall rapidly from the sky. Onlookers aren't sure if it was very small or very far away"
[14:12] <Darkside> heh
[14:12] <NigeyS> lol
[14:12] <Darkside> daveake: you realise your payload will probably not follow a nice descent path
[14:13] <Darkside> its going to fly all over the place
[14:13] <daveake> Yeah, that's a downside
[14:13] <daveake> There's probably more drag from the payload than the chute
[14:15] <daveake> I've put the weight at the bottom but it'll still be unstable I think
[14:15] <NigeyS> you got some kinda weird shape payload or something dave?
[14:16] <daveake> Question for the radio bods here ... is it vital that the antenna hangs down from the ground sheet, or would it work OK going upwards?
[14:16] <daveake> Just a mo ...
[14:17] <Randomskk> the antenna is directional
[14:17] <Randomskk> if you point it upwards, only radios above the payload are really going to hear it.
[14:17] <Randomskk> which isn't very useful
[14:17] <NigeyS> the iss could pick it up, but thats about it :P
[14:17] <Randomskk> the ground radials are like a reflector/mirror
[14:17] <Darkside> NigeyS: give me a few years
[14:18] <NigeyS> that long? :P
[14:18] <daveake> ISS lol
[14:18] <Darkside> heh
[14:18] <daveake> Yeah, I assumed that, just wanted to know for sure :)
[14:18] <daveake> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/368443/ufo.jpg
[14:18] <Darkside> loool
[14:18] <NigeyS> omg lol
[14:18] <Darkside> thats going to tumble horribly as it descends
[14:18] <daveake> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/368443/Buzz%20UFO.jpg
[14:19] <NigeyS> every ufo nutjob in the country is gonna be on pins if they see that !
[14:19] <daveake> Maybe hang Buzz himself from the antenna
[14:19] <NigeyS> you need some coloured leds and smoke on the bottom for full effect ;)
[14:19] <daveake> LEDs are going on this evening
[14:20] <daveake> Smoke only if the cutdown FET locks on ...
[14:20] <NigeyS> haha awsome!
[14:20] <Darkside> hmm bored
[14:20] <Darkside> im gonna reboot into windows and work on a nanonut payload
[14:20] <NigeyS> nanonut.. hmm
[14:20] <NigeyS> 3x3cm ok? :p
[14:20] <Darkside> fuck off
[14:20] <NigeyS> lmao
[14:21] <Darkside> :P
[14:21] <Darkside> its more like 5x2cm i think
[14:21] <Darkside> if i can do it
[14:21] <NigeyS> dam thats crazily small
[14:21] <Randomskk> so far everyone's payload has been like a "deci" at best
[14:21] <NigeyS> you keep ure gps off board though dont ya ?
[14:21] <Darkside> NigeyS: i may not with this one
[14:21] <Randomskk> first person to get a milli payload is going to be impressive
[14:21] <Darkside> if i can fit a ublo module on it i will
[14:21] <Randomskk> I think nano and femto are a good way off >_>
[14:21] <daveake> Saucer with batteries and NTX2 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/368443/Saucer.jpg
[14:21] <Darkside> Randomskk: heh
[14:21] <NigeyS> sweet Darkside !
[14:22] <Darkside> Randomskk: dead bugged CC1010?
[14:22] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: how come there were steps in altitude on the tracker?
[14:22] <NigeyS> Randomskk, size is always gonna be limited by the ntx2 :/
[14:22] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: seteps?
[14:22] <Randomskk> NigeyS: no it's not, there're way better radios
[14:22] <Randomskk> that are a tiny fraction of the size
[14:22] <Darkside> the thing was getitng buffeted by turbulence on the way up
[14:22] <Laurenceb_> steps
[14:22] <Randomskk> wait for the conference :P
[14:22] <NigeyS> oh
[14:22] <NigeyS> that i shall :D
[14:22] <Laurenceb_> but they arent there on the graph
[14:23] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: then its probably the tracker being stupid
[14:23] <Darkside> Randomskk: your fault
[14:23] <Darkside> :P
[14:23] <NigeyS> lol
[14:23] <Randomskk> I didn't write the tracker!
[14:23] <Darkside> Randomskk: maybe i should put a CC1010 on this board then
[14:23] <Randomskk> cc1010 is a right pain
[14:23] <Darkside> or something withiut an 8051 core
[14:23] <Randomskk> I would avoid if at all possible
[14:23] <Darkside> yeah ok
[14:23] <Darkside> will avoid
[14:23] <Darkside> rebooting now
[14:24] <Randomskk> Laurenceb_: sure the steps aren't just where a few packets got missed or something?
[14:24] <Randomskk> could be where the thing that uploads data to spacenear.us got restarted
[14:24] <Laurenceb_> or someone fudged the data :P
[14:24] <Randomskk> seems somewhat unlikely
[14:24] <Laurenceb_> heh
[14:24] <Randomskk> given as the actual data doesn't contain the steps.
[14:24] <Laurenceb_> im joking
[14:24] <NigeyS> hehe
[14:24] <Randomskk> >_>
[14:25] <NigeyS> Laurenceb, how far into the uav are you now?
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> im stuck at intergrating the GCS
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> its a total pita
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> UAVtalk is horrible
[14:25] <NigeyS> ouch
[14:27] <NigeyS> so you have a gcs which is totally seperate software from the autopilot stuff ?
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> yes
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> im using openpilot gcs
[14:27] <NigeyS> ah i see
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> ive ported it to ubuntu
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> its written in QT so that was pretty easy
[14:27] <NigeyS> oh QT is fun
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> ive got qgroundcontrol running too
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> but MAVlink is even worse that UAVtalk as i see it
[14:28] <NigeyS> eugh, not many options for alternatives i take it ?
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> poorly documented, and the ardupilot code is horrible
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> nope
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> unless i roll me own GCS
[14:29] <NigeyS> was just going to say that heh
[14:29] <NigeyS> no small task
[14:29] <Darkside> dammit i need to combine all my pcb libraries
[14:29] <NigeyS> haha you shouldnt have so many! :p
[14:29] <Darkside> currently i have like 10 dufferent versions of my library spread over different projects
[14:30] <Darkside> i need a central library repository, that i can use in all my projects
[14:30] <NigeyS> messy sod :p
[14:30] <Darkside> i should open source the library too
[14:39] <Laurenceb_> NigeyS: https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/blob/master/Util/uavtalk.c
[14:39] <Laurenceb_> lots of fun :(
[14:39] <Laurenceb_> it has to handshake with the ground system
[14:40] <Laurenceb_> and this is before the AES128 and spread spectrum kicks in :S
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> but the pipextreme code looks relatively easy to use
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[14:45] <TimZaman> is phil here?
[14:45] <TimZaman> fpshil are you sure that schematic you sent is correct?
[14:45] <TimZaman> i;m now trying it but it seems off
[14:46] <TimZaman> ping fsphil
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[15:19] <NigeyS> Laurenceb, thats crazy stuff!
[15:22] jcoxon (~jcoxon@92.40.254.166.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[15:24] <NigeyS> ello jcoxon
[15:24] nickolai (~nickolai@184.17.96.104) joined #highaltitude.
[15:24] <nickolai> i did it: http://www.nickolai.me/project-hal-blog.html
[15:24] <NigeyS> aha good stuff nickolai will take a read :)
[15:25] <nickolai> o there's just a couple photos up right now
[15:25] <nickolai> i'm still finishing up the whole story
[15:25] <nickolai> unfortunately the camera battery died about 60 minutes in, so the best shot i have is only from 18km
[15:25] <daveake> Is the tree still standing? ;)
[15:26] <nickolai> haha yes, we got it down with a ladder
[15:26] <jcoxon> hey NigeyS
[15:28] <Darkside> oh god
[15:28] <Darkside> this is cary
[15:28] <Darkside> scary challenging
[15:28] <Darkside> nfi where i'm goign to put the GP..
[15:28] <Darkside> GPS*
[15:28] <Randomskk> on the bottom side! :P
[15:28] <Darkside> i could cheat and put the GPS offboard
[15:28] <Darkside> Randomskk: i've already got part of the bottom used so i could route the bloody ISP header
[15:29] <NigeyS> you can do it Darkside !
[15:29] <Darkside> i'm not even daring to put a serial header for programming on this board, i'll haev to do it all via ISP
[15:29] <Darkside> and its going to be bigger than a NTX2
[15:29] <Darkside> but not by much
[15:30] <daveake> I'm using an Arduino Mini Pro. Not much bigger than NTX2 either. It is however little more than the processor and connections
[15:33] <m1x10> Who wants to try my experimental peer-to-peer video chat service? http://mixio.herobo.com/ichat/
[15:37] <Darkside> well the AVR and the NTX2 are wired up
[15:37] <Darkside> from here i could cheat and put the GPS off-board
[15:37] <Darkside> but lets see what i can do..
[15:39] <Darkside> good god the SO-8 is huge
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[15:52] <Darkside> yeah ok, no on-board temp sensors
[15:52] <Darkside> fuck that shit.
[15:52] <Darkside> those SO-8 DS18B20s are freaking huge
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[15:53] <TimZaman> Hello.
[15:53] <Darkside> ello
[15:53] <TimZaman> i got SSDV up and running already
[15:54] <TimZaman> fpshil : i tuned my resistors and ssdv worked. For some reason my serial connection does not likt 50 baud, but 300 baud works like a charm.
[15:54] <TimZaman> Also, i have to use 2 stopbits always
[15:54] <TimZaman> otherwise it gives nonsense data after every first 3 characters, very weird
[15:55] <TimZaman> Anyway, does anyone know what's wrong with my Dl-Fldigi. Since FLDIGI works great, dl-fldigi does not let me choose my input (soundcard) for some reason
[15:57] <TimZaman> The ChatZilla IRC addon on firefox works pretty good.
[15:59] <Darkside> cripes SMA connectors are huge
[15:59] <Darkside> (trying to work out how to get the NTX2's RF off the board
[16:00] <Randomskk> u.fl
[16:01] <BrainDamage> they are? I mean, they are like 1cm side
[16:01] <BrainDamage> and you can mount sideways on the board
[16:02] <Randomskk> edge mounted connections are great
[16:02] <TimZaman> yep
[16:02] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/5909357111 etc
[16:02] <Randomskk> but u.fl is still smaller
[16:02] <TimZaman> i guess UFL work work fine too
[16:02] <TimZaman> need a reflow station though i guess
[16:03] <TimZaman> woow
[16:03] <NigeyS> schweet nichrome is cool, if a bit smelly when it melts the cord
[16:03] <TimZaman> jon, is that 0403 you are using on that home etched board
[16:06] <Randomskk> if you mean me, I'm not jon
[16:06] <TimZaman> no?
[16:06] <Darkside> i swear, i'm goign to get smited by the RF gods for this
[16:06] <Randomskk> jonsowman is jon
[16:06] <Darkside> i'm doign some horrible horrible things
[16:07] <Randomskk> I'm holding the board, jon happened to be taking the photo :P
[16:07] <TimZaman> yeah i know. but for some reason i assumed you were jon since it was his flickr. my bad.
[16:07] <Randomskk> it's my flickr :P
[16:07] <TimZaman> hope its not an insult
[16:07] <daveake> Darkside: You beat the 36km dragons, so hold no fear of the RF gods!
[16:07] <Darkside> daveake: i won;t beat 36km if the gps fucks up
[16:07] <Darkside> and on this board, it may happen
[16:07] <Randomskk> haha not at all. it's my flickr, I designed that board, I was holding it when jon took the photo hence it having his name on flickr
[16:07] <Randomskk> anyway
[16:07] <Darkside> i've got the output of the NTX2 right near the GPS antenna >_>
[16:08] <Randomskk> to answer your actual question, that board has 0402 and 0603 parts and isn't actually home etched
[16:08] <daveake> I see. Brave ....
[16:08] <Randomskk> but to answer a slightly different question, yes I have put 0402 parts on a home etched board
[16:08] <Darkside> daveake: or stupid
[16:08] <Darkside> don't know yet
[16:08] <TimZaman> Randomssk thats brave.
[16:08] <Randomskk> eh they're fine
[16:08] <Darkside> FUUUUCK THIS
[16:08] <TimZaman> Randomskk they look good indeed. but i wouldnt dare too
[16:09] <TimZaman> to
[16:09] <Darkside> i'm putting a SMA edge connectr on the board
[16:09] <TimZaman> easy now
[16:09] <Darkside> i can't do a through-hole onw
[16:09] <Darkside> theres just no way
[16:09] <daveake> Darkside "brave" is a reference to the old TV series "Yes Minister", and yes it does mean "stupid" :)
[16:09] <Darkside> :P
[16:10] <TimZaman> does it?
[16:11] <daveake> Actually it meant " a decision that will lose you votes" :)
[16:11] <TimZaman> :)
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[16:20] <eroomde> yo
[16:20] <NigeyS> yo ed
[16:20] <eroomde> i really don't recall ever being so excited about public transport
[16:20] <eroomde> the oxford tube is amazing
[16:20] <NigeyS> lol
[16:21] <eroomde> from my front door to london for £11 return and free wifi
[16:21] <eroomde> and viamy bezzie's house
[16:21] <eroomde> via my*
[16:21] <NigeyS> oo good stuff
[16:21] <eroomde> and it runs till 4am
[16:21] <eroomde> so you can actually go out in london
[16:22] <eroomde> well anyway, now i have that off my chest
[16:22] <NigeyS> lol
[16:22] <Randomskk> eroomde: how'd the house move go/going?
[16:22] <eroomde> also i can read my mba screen surprisingly well in the full glare of this amazing evening
[16:22] <eroomde> Randomskk: well i'm in
[16:22] <eroomde> and i have lots of boxes on the floor
[16:22] <Randomskk> oh cool
[16:22] <eroomde> moving out was greatly aided by Darkside
[16:22] <eroomde> i owe him a (soft) drink for that
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[16:23] <jcoxon> evening eroomde
[16:23] Nick change: gaz -> Guest81285
[16:23] <eroomde> eveni g jcoxon
[16:23] <eroomde> how ae things?
[16:24] <NigeyS> bah must remember to make a mental note that nichrome stays warm for a bit :(
[16:24] <jcoxon> eroomde, morning for me :-)
[16:24] <jcoxon> got work in a few hours hehe
[16:24] <eroomde> nights?
[16:24] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:24] <eroomde> NigeyS: yea :)
[16:24] <jcoxon> i don't ever seem not to be on nights
[16:24] <eroomde> i have a nice wee burn from nichrome
[16:25] <NigeyS> evil stuff, but seems to work nicely
[16:25] <eroomde> jcoxon: yeah
[16:25] <eroomde> you have been a bit nocturnal of late
[16:25] <Upu> sod hot wire use explosive!
[16:25] <NigeyS> lol upu, nice vid btw
[16:25] <Upu> fast forward to 1:14
[16:26] <NigeyS> the slowmo :D
[16:26] <eroomde> Upu: link me to the vid?
[16:26] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mthD2gixVjQ
[16:26] <jcoxon> eroomde, finish nights on weds morn and have the rest of the week off
[16:26] <eroomde> please (forgetting my q's and q's)
[16:26] <eroomde> what are the 'q's in 'p's ad q's'?
[16:26] <Upu> Nichrome is too slow and uses too much power
[16:26] <jcoxon> so will launch a pico atlas either thurs or fri
[16:26] <eroomde> ta
[16:27] <Randomskk> eroomde: all sorts of exciting possibilities.
[16:27] <Randomskk> of which maybe you'd like the "pints and quarts" most
[16:27] <eroomde> for possibility in possibilities:
[16:27] <eroomde> print possibility
[16:28] <eroomde> time to step away from thew computer for me i think
[16:28] <russss> I think the 'q's refer to thank-yous.
[16:28] <eroomde> yuck
[16:29] <Randomskk> the pints and quarts is more of a "watch how much you drink"
[16:29] <Randomskk> though it could also refer to keeping ps and qs distinct in printing presses, apparently
[16:30] <eroomde> i will lobby for 'remember your graces and thankyous'
[16:30] <Randomskk> did you see http://www.addedbytes.com/blog/if-php-were-british/
[16:30] <Randomskk> perchance(£condition) {} otherwise {}
[16:31] <daveake> lol
[16:32] <eroomde> i loved that
[16:32] <eroomde> i especially liked
[16:32] <eroomde> replacing try/catch with would_you_mind and actually_I_would_mind
[16:32] <eroomde> and die() with cheerio()
[16:32] <Randomskk> hehe yes
[16:33] <eroomde> i might stick in a couple of defines in my next cpp foray
[16:33] <eroomde> or maybe we should just have british.h
[16:34] <Randomskk> hehe
[16:34] <eroomde> a ukhas coding standard
[16:34] <Randomskk> macros are perfect for this
[16:38] <eroomde> anything new today?
[16:39] Guest81285 (6d9dc439@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.157.196.57) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[16:39] <eroomde> or are will still in 40km aftershock
[16:39] <daveake> the latter!
[16:39] <Randomskk> eroomde: did you get my link to all the darkside data?
[16:39] <eroomde> nope
[16:39] <Randomskk> at one point it was in beautiful json
[16:39] <Randomskk> but darkside couldn't cope with that so I changed it to output his telem sentences
[16:39] <Randomskk> hang on
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[16:40] <Randomskk> what would you like?
[16:40] <eroomde> this is the first chance i've had to sit down since pub yesterday
[16:40] <eroomde> time, pressure, gps alt
[16:40] <eroomde> as csv if poss
[16:40] <eroomde> but as it comes if not
[16:40] <Randomskk> well right this instant, as it comes is either http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/darkside/_view/points or http://habitat.habhub.org/testing-web/darkside_kml.html
[16:40] <Randomskk> I can fairly easily make it be a dict of json values
[16:41] <Randomskk> and pretty easily after that just csv time,pressure,gps alt
[16:41] <Randomskk> though time is a little tricky.
[16:41] <eroomde> oh?
[16:41] <Randomskk> well the payload only sent hr:min:s
[16:41] <Randomskk> which atm is a dict in the database
[16:41] <Randomskk> I can just output hh:mm:ss
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[16:41] <eroomde> i'll take the json
[16:42] <Randomskk> or I can output the unix timestamp from the first receiver
[16:42] <eroomde> it'll make me do the pyinthesky json front end
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[16:43] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/darkside/_view/points
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[16:43] <eroomde> ta
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[16:47] <eroomde> erm, how big is that file?
[16:47] <eroomde> 5megs!
[16:47] <eroomde> ls
[16:47] <eroomde> whoops
[16:51] <Darkside> ok
[16:51] <Darkside> i've almost routed this PCB
[16:51] <eroomde> which one?
[16:51] <Darkside> i realise now that i've limited it a bit - it won't support APRS without a bit of rework wire
[16:51] <eroomde> nanonut?
[16:51] <Darkside> eroomde: MicroNut
[16:51] <Darkside> its not quite nano
[16:52] <Darkside> it is pretty fucking small however
[16:52] <Darkside> i'll uload pics in a bit
[16:52] <eroomde> PFSnut
[16:52] <Darkside> lol
[16:52] <Darkside> i'm doing a few nasty RF things on this board
[16:52] <Darkside> to the point where the GPS may not work
[16:53] <Darkside> you'll see what i mean in a bit
[16:53] <eroomde> i've bevr had a problem (yet) routing microtraces for rf stuff
[16:53] <eroomde> but each and every time i feel a little uneasy
[16:53] <Darkside> its more putting the output of the NTX2 near the GPS antenna
[16:54] <eroomde> isolated grounds
[16:54] <Darkside> i'm hoping the uBlox's SAW filter does its job
[16:54] <eroomde> and you should survive
[16:54] <Darkside> well if the SAW filter works it should be fine
[16:54] <eroomde> definitely do a star ground topology
[16:55] <Darkside> >_>
[16:55] <Darkside> haven't heard that term
[16:55] <Darkside> just gimme a bit, i'll show you the board
[16:55] <BrainDamage> star wars ground topology?
[16:55] <Darkside> i'm just working out how to route one of the PWM pins to the NTX2
[16:55] <BrainDamage> star ground topology means single ground point, and all gns going there with a wire
[16:55] <eroomde> so you have each area will its own ground fill
[16:56] <eroomde> and they only attach to each other at one point
[16:56] <eroomde> if it's in the middle then it looks like a pretty star
[16:57] <Darkside> yeah thats not going to happen
[16:57] <Darkside> not on this PCB
[16:57] <eroomde> well, be v careful around this gps/ntx2 interface anyway
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[17:00] <Darkside> ok, managed to route PD3 to a pad near the standard NTX2 resistors
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[17:00] <Darkside> the idea being, i don't include the normal resistors, and put a 0 ohm between the PD3 pad ant the NTX2 TXD pin
[17:01] <Darkside> then i can use PD3s PWM capability to do APRS
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[17:03] <eroomde> hrm, i wonder if we could at least use aprs to upliank to balloons
[17:03] <eroomde> can you do internet to Tx with aprs?
[17:04] <eroomde> or is it just tx-to-internet
[17:05] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/8Ts49.jpg
[17:05] <Darkside> you can see my dodginess
[17:05] <Darkside> particuarly around the NTX2's output
[17:05] <Darkside> i mean, it woud probably work
[17:05] <Darkside> would*
[17:06] <eroomde> wow
[17:06] <eroomde> that's bold
[17:06] <eroomde> 4-layer?
[17:06] <Darkside> 2 layer
[17:06] <eroomde> ...bold
[17:06] <Darkside> ... or srupid
[17:06] <Darkside> stupid*
[17:06] <Darkside> ugh
[17:06] <NigeyS> lol
[17:06] <number10> is that a ublox on U2 Darkside?
[17:06] <Darkside> eh?
[17:07] <Darkside> U2 is the micro
[17:07] <Darkside> the ublox module is whats attached to the GPS
[17:07] <Darkside> an NEO-6Q
[17:07] <jcoxon> is it worth reversing hte ntx2
[17:07] <Darkside> jcoxon: i think its worth a try
[17:07] <jcoxon> so the output is on the opposite side to the gps antenna
[17:07] <Darkside> yeah
[17:07] <Darkside> thats my thought
[17:07] <number10> doh not near the antenna sorry I'll go back to my glass of beer in garden
[17:07] <eroomde> i think the ublox datasheet has something to say on the matter of putting stuff under the gps
[17:07] <eroomde> like - don't you f*ing dark
[17:08] <Darkside> haha
[17:08] <eroomde> so a radio is pretty bold :)
[17:08] <eroomde> dare*
[17:08] <Darkside> the radio isnt going under the GPS
[17:08] <eroomde> well, go for it
[17:08] <Darkside> its going beside it
[17:08] <Randomskk> the radio is under the GPS
[17:08] <eroomde> it'll be fun to see if it works
[17:08] <Darkside> oh, you mean the entire NTX2 module
[17:08] <Randomskk> there's not really space for it to be anywhere but under :P
[17:08] <Darkside> well there is a ground plane in teh wy
[17:08] <eroomde> 45 degree ICs for added sexiness
[17:08] <Darkside> eroomde: ohhh yeah
[17:08] <Randomskk> Darkside: the entire ntx2 has rf throughout really, it's a densely routed piece of analog radio magic
[17:08] <Darkside> Randomskk: heh
[17:09] <jcoxon> Darkside, how about having hte ntx2 upright
[17:09] <Randomskk> if you do reverse the ntx2 its metal case will be in the way
[17:09] <jcoxon> so not flat against the PCB
[17:09] <Darkside> jcoxon: nah
[17:09] <jcoxon> won't increase your mass
[17:09] <jcoxon> but better for RF interference
[17:09] <Darkside> it will increase the total size
[17:09] <Darkside> jcoxon: tbh i dont think i'll have RF interference problems
[17:09] <Darkside> the ublox has a big SAW filter on the front of it
[17:10] <Darkside> i will attempt to flip the NTX2 around
[17:11] <Darkside> this is going to be painful
[17:11] <NigeyS> you love the challenge :p
[17:11] <Darkside> but its dinnertime
[17:11] <Darkside> also one thing thats fucking annoying about this pcb
[17:11] <Darkside> its 52mm long
[17:11] <eroomde> dakthe microstrip sizing
[17:11] <eroomde> it's variable width there
[17:11] <NigeyS> haha oh dear
[17:11] <Darkside> 2mm over the seeedstudio limit
[17:11] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah i know
[17:12] <eroomde> is there some deliberateness and black magic to that?
[17:12] <Darkside> well the pad isn't the right width
[17:12] <NigeyS> Darkside, move the pwr pins opposite the isp pin 1 ? would save some room ?
[17:12] <Darkside> NigeyS: maybe
[17:12] <eroomde> because i always understood you actually had a to pick a width according to pcb thickness, material, and operating freq
[17:12] <Darkside> this is just a first draft
[17:12] <NigeyS> be a bitch to route though
[17:13] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah, 1.36mm width for a 0.8mm thick PCB
[17:13] <Darkside> and the pads are 0.6mm wide
[17:13] <Randomskk> eroomde: and then the width is like 1cm and you go "wtf no", do something thinner anyway and it works
[17:13] <Darkside> :P
[17:13] <Darkside> AAAANYWAY
[17:13] <Randomskk> eroomde: also the width just changes the impedance of the trace, but for short traces the effect becomes negligable - that 1/16th of a wavelength thing again
[17:13] <Darkside> this is just a first draft
[17:13] <Randomskk> on the other hand yes, properly it should be sized appropriately :P
[17:13] <Darkside> i'll start playing around with something different
[17:13] <Randomskk> Darkside: should easily get it to fit inside 5cm though
[17:14] <Darkside> Randomskk: yeah, i can shave off 2mm i think
[17:14] <Randomskk> Darkside: I expect onboard 434mhz antenna and batteries too
[17:14] <Darkside> Randomskk: piss off
[17:14] <NigeyS> lols
[17:14] <eroomde> Randomskk: i don't think it's ever been 1cm when i calculated it
[17:14] <eroomde> always something quite achievable
[17:14] <Randomskk> eroomde: nah I was exaggerting for effect I guess, it is usually doable
[17:14] <Randomskk> like the thick part of the trace there
[17:14] <NigeyS> Darkside, dont forget the sdcard holder to :P
[17:14] <Randomskk> mostly I just try and avoid having to use microstrips
[17:15] <Darkside> NigeyS: h ahit
[17:15] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/5909357111/in/photostream
[17:15] <Darkside> now you remind me
[17:15] <Randomskk> has about 1mm of trace before it gets to the first part of my rf network
[17:15] <Darkside> yeah i'm not putting a microSD card holder on this one
[17:15] <Darkside> fuck that
[17:15] <NigeyS> haha you forgot didnt ya? :p
[17:15] <eroomde> and 1/16th of gps freq is about1.2cm
[17:15] <Darkside> maybe if i had 4 layers
[17:15] <Darkside> but i'm not doing that
[17:15] <NigeyS> nooo stick to 2, be hardcore :P
[17:15] <Darkside> i want to be able to make 10 of these for $10
[17:15] <Darkside> and that means 2-layer PCBs
[17:16] <Randomskk> eroomde: it also depends on whether you use colinear waveguides or stripline or what. you can use ground plane on either side instead of or as well as ground plane below and it changes the impedances
[17:17] <eroomde> indeed, i have used waveguides for higher freq stuff
[17:17] <eroomde> never for gps though
[17:17] <eroomde> ghe ublox hardware integration guide has quite a complete section of grounds to the side and below and how to calcuate track width
[17:17] <eroomde> so i just do exactly what that says
[17:18] <Randomskk> yea
[17:18] <Randomskk> best bet really
[17:18] <eroomde> if in doubt :)
[17:19] <Randomskk> which is pretty much always with RF magic :P
[17:19] <eroomde> indeed!
[17:20] <eroomde> http://www.delorme.com/byUse/gpsmodules/images/DeLorme_Antenna_RF_Design.pdf
[17:20] <eroomde> worth a read Darkside
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[17:25] <Darkside> ok so now the output of the NTX2 is close to the AVR
[17:25] <Darkside> but i gues the AVE should be able to handle that
[17:25] <Darkside> AVR*
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[17:28] <eroomde> Randomskk: have you had a chance to test airdrop with any of the other mba converts in your office?
[17:28] <Randomskk> nope, not yet
[17:28] <Randomskk> haven't successfully used airdrop once
[17:29] <eroomde> snap
[17:29] <eroomde> annoying
[17:29] <Randomskk> though my temptation to put ubuntu on my mba is rising. just lost >10gb of space to sodding xcode
[17:29] <eroomde> that much!?
[17:29] <Randomskk> so now I'm at like 70% used
[17:29] <Randomskk> yea
[17:29] <eroomde> christ
[17:29] <Randomskk> I think it's possibly still got the installer around too which I need to get rid of, and as it gave me no options on install I think it's setup all the iOS shit too
[17:29] <Randomskk> including iphone libs and emulators and all the rest
[17:29] <Randomskk> so annoying
[17:30] <eroomde> oh i see
[17:30] <Randomskk> that gcc compiler I found is presumably still around too as I can't find any way to delete it
[17:30] <eroomde> i don't think i got any of that
[17:30] <Randomskk> did you install via app store?
[17:30] <Randomskk> gcc compiler would have been perfect except it doesn't include opengl or coreaudio which means not being able to build dl-fldigi or play with sound processing
[17:30] <eroomde> yup
[17:30] <NigeyS> airdrop?
[17:30] <eroomde> oh maybe i didn't
[17:30] <eroomde> no i think i did
[17:31] <Randomskk> :|
[17:31] <eroomde> i do appear to have the iphone emulators etc
[17:31] <eroomde> having just looked
[17:32] <Randomskk> is yours a 64gb mba or what?
[17:32] <eroomde> 128
[17:32] <Randomskk> ah
[17:32] <Randomskk> I guess that helps it not be such a thing
[17:32] <Randomskk> my dashboard's hdd usage bar went up so much
[17:32] <Darkside> hmm i havent got the footprint of this NTX2 done correctly
[17:32] <Darkside> i'm pretty sure its slightly diferent to what iv'e got on my overlay
[17:32] <Darkside> oh well, i guess i can have the NTX2 slightly off from the PCB is i have to
[17:32] <Darkside> if i have to*
[17:33] <Darkside> and i can slip a bit of plastic in between it and the PCB so i don't get any shorts
[17:33] <eroomde> nice
[17:40] <Randomskk> eroomde: apparently ubuntu on mac hardware now works really well - excellent power management, multitouch works, etc
[17:40] <Randomskk> though I haven't tried yet.
[17:41] <eroomde> not sure i will
[17:41] <Randomskk> it would amuse me to confuse mac users when they see it
[17:41] <eroomde> my laptop is just for nice sweeties
[17:41] <Randomskk> hehe
[17:41] <Randomskk> same mostly, but it's annoying for the few things where it should be simple
[17:41] <eroomde> and working flash
[17:41] <Randomskk> like, seriously, opengl headers
[17:41] <eroomde> flash64 on ubuntu makes me weep
[17:41] <eroomde> i've given up with it
[17:42] <Randomskk> huh, really?
[17:42] <eroomde> yep
[17:42] <Randomskk> I've not had any problems with flash for like, four or five years now
[17:42] <Randomskk> it's just worked
[17:42] <Randomskk> firefox and chrome
[17:42] <eroomde> on 64 kernel?
[17:42] <Randomskk> yea.
[17:42] <Randomskk> I mean, I suspect maybe it's not a 64 bit flash
[17:42] <eroomde> it causes me nothign but agro
[17:42] <eroomde> like crashing on fullscreen mode
[17:42] <Randomskk> but I don't think this install in particular I've even looked at it, it just worked essentially out of the box
[17:43] <Randomskk> :|
[17:43] <Randomskk> bloody flash
[17:43] <Randomskk> now I have other issues with full screen though, namely xmonad
[17:44] <eroomde> a floating fullscreen?
[17:44] <Randomskk> it tries all sorts of sillyness. it won't let chrome go fullscreen per se though.
[17:44] <Randomskk> I can give one window the entire screen, it's one layout style, but chrome still renders its chrome
[17:44] <Randomskk> which is particularly annoying on fullscreen vimeo videos, which are actually "full viewport"
[17:45] <eroomde> yeah
[17:45] <eroomde> these are really all problems i don't mind on a dev machine
[17:45] <eroomde> but really don't want on my mba
[17:45] <eroomde> i want it to be quirkfree
[17:46] <eroomde> and mainly for guistuff and giving presentations
[17:46] <eroomde> developing on it does my shoulders and wrists in anyway :)
[17:49] <Randomskk> yea, fair enough. I would be happy if only I could develop /for/ it :P
[17:49] <Randomskk> as it stands not being able to decode telem on my main laptop is kind of annoying
[17:51] <eroomde> can you not?
[17:51] <eroomde> oh the fldigi
[17:51] <eroomde> lion
[17:51] <eroomde> thing
[17:51] <eroomde> yes that needs a fix
[17:52] <Randomskk> I can't build it without xcode no matter what
[17:52] <Randomskk> and I can't make a python rtty demod without xcode either
[17:52] <Randomskk> but I seriously don't want all of xcode wasting my disk :|
[17:52] <eroomde> simlink to external?
[17:53] <Randomskk> hmm
[17:53] <eroomde> or symlink too, if simlink doesn't work out
[17:53] <Randomskk> I dunno if that'd... weird.
[17:53] <Randomskk> maybe?
[17:53] <Randomskk> that might be worth considering. I'm not really sure how /develop and libraries and all that crap really works
[18:05] <jcoxon> if someone would provide me with lion i'll try and fix dl-fldigi :-p
[18:05] <jcoxon> i'd also need a machine to run it on
[18:05] <Randomskk> jcoxon: it looks like it might be an fltk issue
[18:06] <jcoxon> cause you need fltk 1.3?
[18:06] <Randomskk> not sure. I tried with the latest fltk and same problem
[18:06] <Randomskk> though I now have xcode so I'll try again and see
[18:06] <Randomskk> I think it's that lion upgrades some of the os x graphics APIs
[18:06] <Randomskk> and fltk is still trying to use old ones
[18:06] <Randomskk> but yea, I'll try again and see what happens
[18:06] <jcoxon> yeah its the switch from carbon to cocoa
[18:06] <Randomskk> yea
[18:07] <Randomskk> certainly normal dl-fldigi as built on snow leopard won't run at all on lion
[18:07] <jcoxon> from the looks of it 1.3 should compile
[18:08] <Randomskk> hmm okay, I'll give it a go in a few minutes
[18:08] <Randomskk> DanielRichman's making steady progress getting dl-fldigi to upload directly to habitat
[18:09] <jcoxon> cool cool
[18:09] <jcoxon> right i better be off
[18:09] <Randomskk> seeya!
[18:09] <jcoxon> cya
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[18:10] <fsphil> 1200 baud over 10km: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3-aNXqc9B8
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[18:10] <Randomskk> fsphil: oh, nice! that's tons faster
[18:10] <fsphil> needed the yagi to work though, not sure how much further it could go
[18:11] <fsphil> but I think I was receiving a reflection, rather than it being LOS
[18:11] <Randomskk> where was the other end?
[18:11] <Randomskk> like, 10km along the ground is harder than 10km into the sky
[18:11] <fsphil> sitting on my window sill at home
[18:12] <fsphil> the receiving station is about 400m up
[18:12] <Randomskk> cool
[18:12] <fsphil> the signal was fading, sounded like HF at times
[18:12] <fsphil> so I think there was a lot of multi-path stuff going on
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[18:16] <Darkside> OK
[18:16] <Darkside> board has been redesigned
[18:16] <Randomskk> hehe
[18:18] <Darkside> its much better no
[18:18] <Darkside> now*
[18:20] <NigeyS> that was quick
[18:21] <hibby> taco bell nomnomnom
[18:23] <NigeyS> hibby, shh im hungry already! :p
[18:24] <hibby> it's awesome
[18:25] Action: hibby went to an MLS game last night
[18:26] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/JOHAk.jpg
[18:27] <Darkside> mmrvch
[18:27] <Darkside> ugh
[18:27] <Darkside> done
[18:27] <Darkside> there will be some clearance issuesb etween the NTX2 and the SMA connector
[18:27] <Randomskk> uhm
[18:27] <Randomskk> 'some'?
[18:27] <Darkside> but i can solve them by having the NTX2 raised off the board
[18:27] <Randomskk> yea
[18:28] <Randomskk> why not use an edge mounted connector?
[18:28] <Darkside> plus the overlay for the NTX2 isn't actually correct
[18:28] <Darkside> Randomskk: i might
[18:28] <Randomskk> ah
[18:28] <Darkside> i still have the same issue with the ISP though
[18:29] <Darkside> note there is no pressure sensor on this board
[18:29] <Darkside> yer
[18:29] <Darkside> yet*
[18:29] <Darkside> i don't know where the hell it'll fit
[18:29] <Darkside> maybe under the NTX2
[18:29] <NigeyS> looking good there Darkside
[18:30] TimZaman (~chatzilla@535602CA.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[18:30] <TimZaman> im back
[18:30] <TimZaman> and uploading that SSDV :)
[18:30] <TimZaman> that phil has made some sweet stuff
[18:30] <fsphil> oooh that's better than what I was thinking Darkside !
[18:31] <Darkside> fsphil: oh?
[18:31] <fsphil> holy crap something I made works
[18:31] <Darkside> it has no pressure or microSD card btw
[18:31] <Darkside> i kind of gave up on putting a MicroSD card socket on there
[18:31] <fsphil> ooh see it on the live page TimZaman!
[18:32] <fsphil> Darkside, better cause I didn't have a gps chip on there :)
[18:32] <fsphil> that's totally self-contained
[18:32] <Darkside> mm
[18:32] <Darkside> apply power and antenna, and off you go
[18:33] <fsphil> my design was just going to have two serial port headers
[18:33] <fsphil> one or camera, one for gps
[18:33] <fsphil> for*
[18:33] <Darkside> fsphil: also this board should be able to do APRS
[18:33] <NigeyS> ach its crazy tim :p
[18:33] <TimZaman> more comming now
[18:34] <Darkside> with the right module, and the right power supply
[18:34] <fsphil> lol TimZaman
[18:34] <fsphil> big image
[18:34] <TimZaman> yeah my bad
[18:34] <Darkside> the modules that work on the APRS freq require a 5V supply
[18:34] <TimZaman> woww still!
[18:34] <TimZaman> big image but its pretty fast
[18:34] <fsphil> it is!
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[18:35] <TimZaman> i say 2400 baud
[18:35] <fsphil> 2400 would be pushing it :)
[18:35] <TimZaman> phil i have to say, your website upload rocks
[18:35] <TimZaman> BUT
[18:35] <TimZaman> the fldigi is messed up big time
[18:35] <TimZaman> its very jagged
[18:35] <TimZaman> the image
[18:35] <fsphil> can you take a screenshot?
[18:35] <TimZaman> surely
[18:36] <TimZaman> check your ma il
[18:36] <fsphil> oooh
[18:36] <fsphil> that's bad
[18:36] <TimZaman> its kinda lame that i just sent you a 1MB screenshot over email, while uploading a 100kb image over radio that takes 15 minutes
[18:36] <TimZaman> yeah it is
[18:36] <TimZaman> it was with more image
[18:36] <fsphil> technology :)
[18:37] <fsphil> ooooooh
[18:37] <TimZaman> also, i had an old version of ssdv (turned out) - that messed up encoding really bad. the new one seems fine
[18:37] <fsphil> I know
[18:37] <fsphil> that's old dl-fldigi
[18:37] <fsphil> the packet format changed (added a checksum)
[18:37] <fsphil> you need my last github version
[18:37] <TimZaman> yeah i did
[18:37] <TimZaman> but this is windows
[18:38] <TimZaman> under linux i had some problems with autoconfigure.ac
[18:38] <fsphil> http://sanslogic.co.uk/files/dl-fldigi-3.21.13-fsphil-github-20110813_setup.exe
[18:38] <fsphil> I built one
[18:38] <fsphil> for windows
[18:38] <TimZaman> Ah sweet.
[18:38] <TimZaman> How about for ubuntu? i dont live windows a lot.
[18:38] <TimZaman> but i had to
[18:38] <fsphil> if you checkout my github branch, it should compile on ubuntu pretty easy
[18:38] <TimZaman> man o man phil, that image uploading stuff is reaaally nice
[18:39] <fsphil> there's a howto somewhere
[18:39] <TimZaman> yeah but i autoconfigured it, then it started whining there was no "install-sh" in "aux_build" folder..
[18:39] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-ubuntu
[18:40] <TimZaman> HAHA NOOOO
[18:40] <TimZaman> whyyy - i should have seen that earlier
[18:40] <TimZaman> would have saved me 2 hours of my precious life
[18:40] <TimZaman> oh well, thats how i learn.
[18:40] <Darkside> ok i think i need food now
[18:40] <TimZaman> phil, is it possible to have even more error recovery?
[18:41] <fsphil> not easily
[18:41] <TimZaman> or wouldnt that fit the 256 bits per package
[18:41] <fsphil> it would need to be bigger
[18:41] <fsphil> or a packet could be re-transmitted
[18:41] <fsphil> or multiple receivers on the ground
[18:42] <TimZaman> because i just ran some tests with tuning, and if the tuning was off a little bit, it would kinda decode it, but not too well, but the main structure could still be seen by myself through the errors
[18:42] <TimZaman> whats the percentage now?
[18:42] <fsphil> error correction is 32 bytes, and can fix 16 byte errors
[18:42] <TimZaman> by the way, have you done something smart with the packages with multiple receivers? or does it just upload a succesful package
[18:43] <TimZaman> i guess a good package can still be constructed with a few bad ones
[18:43] <fsphil> atm, at least one station needs to receive it properly
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[18:43] <wyan> hi there
[18:43] <fsphil> I've been thinking about having it upload a potential packet - something that looks like it should be a packet, but fails the checksum
[18:44] <fsphil> howdy wyan
[18:44] <wyan> hi there fsphil
[18:45] <fsphil> TimZaman, I think that's the biggest image transmitted so far :)
[18:45] <fsphil> I've never gone higher than 1024x768
[18:45] <fsphil> oooh image live hab images that size
[18:45] <fsphil> imagine
[18:46] <TimZaman> yeah it was by mistake, i used Cheese to capture something
[18:46] <TimZaman> well phil, we could do that
[18:46] <TimZaman> but i have to build something that determines whether or not an image is valid (not just skies or blurry stuff)
[18:47] <TimZaman> i can, im experienced with opencv, its already on the beagleboard.
[18:47] <TimZaman> sadly though there is little work to be done now :(
[18:48] <fsphil> I think I need to repeat the 1200 baud test again, only put the transmitter up higher
[18:48] <fsphil> I'm pretty sure it wasn't LOS -- if so, then it's amazing it worked at all :)
[18:49] <fsphil> so you've wired the ntx2 directly to the beagleboard serial port?
[18:49] <TimZaman> nope
[18:49] <TimZaman> hehe
[18:50] <TimZaman> didnt have a serial cable here
[18:50] <TimZaman> so instead i used a ftdi thingy
[18:50] <TimZaman> i bet that was screwing up the 50 baud
[18:50] <TimZaman> also, it screws up 300 baud if i didnt use 2 stop-bits
[18:50] <fsphil> likely yea, very few uarts can go down to 50
[18:50] <fsphil> fldigi works better with 2 anyway
[18:50] <TimZaman> yep
[18:50] <TimZaman> but ehm
[18:51] <TimZaman> maybe its smart when i run my test in 2 weeks
[18:51] <TimZaman> to start with an image at 300b
[18:51] <TimZaman> then 600
[18:51] <TimZaman> 1200
[18:51] <fsphil> I better decoder could be made - that would help too
[18:51] <fsphil> oooh alternating baud rates
[18:51] <fsphil> good idea
[18:51] <TimZaman> yeah
[18:52] <TimZaman> i also ordered a TX2 i think it was, maybe that works better, dont know.
[18:52] <TimZaman> your resistorvalues were very off with my 3v3 setup btw
[18:52] <TimZaman> its now at.. i think 2k and 10k
[18:53] <TimZaman> luckily i had good potmeters (essential with tuning this thing)
[18:53] <fsphil> those values give me a 350hz shift
[18:53] <TimZaman> ah right
[18:53] <TimZaman> pm
[18:56] <Darkside> TimZaman: what countrry
[18:57] <TimZaman> Hollandia
[18:57] <Darkside> ahh ok
[18:57] <TimZaman> You?
[18:58] <TimZaman> By the way, who are you :)?
[18:58] <Darkside> australia, tho in the uk atm
[18:58] <TimZaman> friend of terry?
[18:58] <TimZaman> are you the ham guy
[18:58] <TimZaman> err
[18:58] <TimZaman> adrian?
[18:58] <Darkside> nah
[18:58] <Darkside> im mark
[18:58] <TimZaman> okay
[18:58] <Darkside> but i'm with that grup
[18:58] <TimZaman> what brings you to the UK
[18:58] <Darkside> group*
[18:58] <Darkside> uni stuff
[18:59] <fsphil> coming here, breaking our records ;)
[18:59] <TimZaman> ah okay
[18:59] <Darkside> :P
[18:59] <daveake> lol
[18:59] <TimZaman> i got a lot of help from terry with my first flight
[18:59] <TimZaman> that was before he launched 15 Horus flights though
[18:59] <Darkside> :P
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[19:02] <TimZaman> im switchting to linux, before i go crosseyed
[19:02] <TimZaman> brb
[19:02] TimZaman (~chatzilla@535602CA.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
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[19:06] TimZaman (~chatzilla@535602CA.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[19:06] <TimZaman> back
[19:07] <NigeyS> wb
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[19:14] <TimZaman> guys whats that about the conference?
[19:15] <NigeyS> you coming Tim ?
[19:15] <TimZaman> give me some info
[19:15] <TimZaman> If it is what i imagine, sure.
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[19:16] <NigeyS> think Upu has most of the info
[19:26] <Darkside> hmm i might break out I2C on this board
[19:26] <Darkside> so if i want to wire up something else i can
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[19:35] <Darkside> eroomde: what kind of pressure sensor would you want to use
[19:35] <Darkside> and would it have an I2C interface
[19:35] <Darkside> http://www.sensirion.com/en/04_differential_pressure_sensors/01_sdp600-differential-pressure-sensors/00_sdp600-differential-pressure-sensors.htm
[19:36] <Darkside> in any case, i've got I2C broken out on this board
[19:36] <Darkside> PC4 and PC5, which are also analog inputs
[19:36] <Darkside> so you could do oversampling of an analog pressure sensor
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[19:53] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/229Lu.jpg
[19:53] <Darkside> latest version, with I2C and some other GPIOs broken out to small pitch pin headers
[19:55] Lunar_Lander (~Lunar_Lan@p548833B3.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:56] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/229Lu.jpg Lunar_Lander
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> what is it?
[19:56] <Darkside> micronut
[19:56] <Darkside> the latest revision of the nut payload series
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:59] <fsphil> tis amazing, that's what it is
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:00] <Darkside> tis full of grounding issues, is what it is
[20:00] <Darkside> >_>
[20:00] <Darkside> maybe
[20:00] <Darkside> i mean, it'll probably work
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside: did you receive my congratulations yesterday?
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[20:02] <mixio> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:02] <fsphil> hmmm: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-14606660
[20:02] <fsphil> whodunnit? :)
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> hey mixio
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:05] <fsphil> lol-- talk about timing, someone just posted that link to the GPSL list
[20:05] <fsphil> blamed you Darkside :)
[20:06] <Darkside> wha?
[20:06] <Darkside> they what?
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> "Rising quite slowly to begin with (3m/s), Horus 15.5 eventually reached an altitude of 40.575km!"
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> you should remove the "k"
[20:06] <Darkside> no
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> nevermind
[20:06] <Darkside> its 40.75 km
[20:07] <Darkside> 40.575*
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> my fault
[20:07] <Darkside> if it was a comma, then yes
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:07] <fsphil> Darkside, http://pastebin.com/KHBXPY7W
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> so
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> if mininut was on H15.5
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> micronut is designed to get even higher?
[20:10] <Darkside> hahahah
[20:10] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: yep
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:10] <Darkside> i think this is the limit to how small we can make a NTX2 based payload
[20:10] <fsphil> def.
[20:11] <Randomskk> eeeeh
[20:11] <Randomskk> bold claim :P
[20:11] <fsphil> unless you remove the shield
[20:11] <fsphil> save some weight
[20:11] <Randomskk> could be a fun competition, hah
[20:12] <Darkside> Randomskk: heh
[20:12] <Randomskk> take out the shield, deadbug a qfn AVR to the i/o pins and a gps, tape on a tiny lipo
[20:12] <Darkside> you nd your 4 layer boards
[20:12] <fsphil> or use a smaller avr
[20:12] <Randomskk> nah, no PC B
[20:12] <Randomskk> they're heavy :|
[20:12] <Randomskk> ICSP header is a luxury too
[20:12] <Randomskk> an attiny would suffice, too
[20:13] <Randomskk> might have to change telem format slightly to accommodate lack of ram and cpu
[20:13] <Darkside> i considered using a QFN avr
[20:13] <Darkside> but i'm not that crazy
[20:13] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/quad/mc/motor_controller_r4_brd.png
[20:13] <Randomskk> is all 0402 and qfn avr
[20:13] <Randomskk> but yea, it's not a balloon payload.
[20:14] <Darkside> but yea, on that PCB i 've broken out a bunch of io lines
[20:14] <Darkside> so if we find a decent I2C pressure sensor we can wire it in
[20:14] <Randomskk> that'd be cool
[20:15] <Darkside> and i've got 4 other GPIOs for other stuff
[20:18] <fsphil> I wonder how much heavier you could make the payload, and still get a 1600g balloon to float
[20:18] <Darkside> i dont care about floating
[20:18] <Darkside> i care about altitude now
[20:18] <Darkside> :P
[20:19] <Darkside> i'm going to beat those cornell guys goddamnit!
[20:19] <daveake__> :)
[20:19] <Darkside> and i'm going to be having a BBQ while it happens
[20:19] <fsphil> not if I beat them first lol
[20:19] <daveake__> Spoke like a true Aussie
[20:19] <Darkside> fsphil: it's on
[20:19] <Darkside> so, what payload are you going to use?
[20:19] <Darkside> :P
[20:19] <fsphil> your advanced pcb design skills vs. my ... er.. soldering?.. no..
[20:20] <fsphil> and I'm gonna carry a camera too :p
[20:20] <daveake__> Live TV from 40km?
[20:20] <Darkside> fsphil: thats part of th epoint of this PCB
[20:21] <fsphil> if you count 1 frame per five minutes, then yea :)
[20:21] <Darkside> so we can fit a gopro in the payload too
[20:21] <daveake__> lol
[20:21] <Darkside> fsphil: hmm, any I2C jpeg cameras?
[20:21] <fsphil> a gopro at 40km... mmmm
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake fsphil
[20:21] <fsphil> Darkside, there are actually
[20:21] <fsphil> or are they spi
[20:21] <fsphil> lemme check
[20:21] <fsphil> howdy Lunar_Lander
[20:21] <mixio> lemme
[20:21] <mixio> lol
[20:21] <Darkside> http://www.robotshop.com/ca/sfe-cmos-camera-1300-1040.html
[20:21] <Darkside> oh man
[20:21] <Darkside> awesome
[20:21] <mixio> lemme check
[20:22] <Darkside> i could totally fit one of thos eon my PCB
[20:22] <Darkside> or at least on a daugherboard, connected to the I2C
[20:23] <mixio> http://www.robotshop.com/ca/draganfly-eyecam-video-system.html
[20:23] <fsphil> I think mixio has learned a new phrase :)
[20:24] <Darkside> wouldn't use that mixio
[20:24] <Darkside> we already have a 1.2GHz transmitter
[20:24] <Darkside> hell, i could probably use a lipo with it too, as it gets hot enough
[20:24] <Darkside> man, live video from 40km
[20:24] <Darkside> how cool would that be
[20:24] <mixio> lemme check again :)
[20:25] <fsphil> lemme whap mixio over the head with a bat first
[20:25] <fsphil> ;)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:25] <mixio> die?
[20:25] <fsphil> nah, foam bat
[20:25] <fsphil> or one with wings
[20:25] <fsphil> not sure
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:25] <mixio> dracula immune system enabled
[20:25] <fsphil> I saw crickets up the mountain today
[20:25] <fsphil> loud wee buggers
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:26] <Darkside> i think i might do some fusion PCB orders
[20:26] <mixio> Samsilver got monkeys on his rooftop
[20:26] <Darkside> at the least get the uBlox breakout boards manufactured
[20:26] <fsphil> they make the board for you?
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[20:26] <mixio> Darkside why dont you use gps bee?
[20:26] <Darkside> gps bee?
[20:26] <fsphil> if you can train them to install antennas then NigeyS might be interested in them
[20:26] <mixio> its ublox
[20:27] <fsphil> dude, this has it's own built-in gps. that's way cooler
[20:27] <Darkside> mixio: well i've just bought 15 NEO-6Q GPS modules
[20:27] <Darkside> oh thats a point, i need to order a pile of sarantel antennas too
[20:27] <mixio> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/gps-bee-kit-with-mini-embedded-antenna-p-560.html?cPath=144_145
[20:28] <mixio> i flight system uses that
[20:28] <mixio> my*
[20:29] <mixio> 15 modules? you are rich or something?
[20:29] <Darkside> they were cheap
[20:29] <Darkside> 13 pounds each, and i dont have to pay VAT
[20:29] <Darkside> and i'll probably sell a few breakout boards to you guys :P
[20:30] <mixio> eee
[20:30] <mixio> you can send some for free too :(
[20:31] <Darkside> at cost
[20:31] <Darkside> hah no
[20:31] <mixio> lol
[20:31] <Upu> evening
[20:31] <Darkside> i'll have to work out the pricing for each breakout board
[20:31] <mixio> didnt u like gps bee?
[20:31] <Darkside> i dont like the zigbee form factor
[20:31] <Darkside> its too wide
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[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu natrium42
[20:32] <Upu> hey Lunar_Lander
[20:32] <Darkside> hmm i just realised a possible problem with my PCB
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> how's life
[20:32] <Upu> your PCB design is great Darkside
[20:32] <Darkside> i shouldn't really be running the stripline *under* the ublox module
[20:32] <Darkside> i should try and get it around somehow
[20:33] <Darkside> though it is such a short run it'll probably work ayway
[20:35] <Darkside> ok, it'll cost me approx AUD$35 to make these GPS breakout boards
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[20:35] <Darkside> and ship them to whoever
[20:36] <Darkside> you can convert that to your own currency
[20:36] <russss> "HTV-2 demonstrated stable, aerodynamically controlled Mach 20 hypersonic flight for approximately three minutes" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44208437/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/superfast-military-plane-hit-mach-crash/
[20:36] <russss> "Conventional Prompt Global Strike" is the most boring name for a weapons system ever
[20:39] <natrium42> yo Lunar_Lander
[20:42] <nickolai> hey natrium42
[20:43] mixio (~mixio@ppp046177045251.dsl.hol.gr) left irc:
[20:43] <nickolai> so i launched: http://www.nickolai.me/flight-1.html
[20:43] <nickolai> and recovered :)
[20:44] <nickolai> i hope you don't mind if I put that snippet of our conversation about attachment methods in my write up?
[20:45] <Darkside> ok gps antennas ordered
[20:46] <Hiena> "HTV-2 demonstrated stable, aerodynamically controlled Mach 20 hypersonic flight for approximately three minutes" <= Sounds like my urethane, cyanoacrilate based slow burner fuel. It's demostrated about 10 minutes stable self-life, before it's self ignited.
[20:47] <Darkside> eek
[20:47] <fsphil> eek, tree nickolai
[20:48] <fsphil> glad you got it down
[20:48] <nickolai> yea, that was a little frustrating haha
[20:48] <nickolai> i need to make a flashing light for me next one, it was surprisngly tough to find this one
[20:48] <natrium42> nickolai: aah, cool
[20:49] <natrium42> nickolai: you went to model un conferences?
[20:49] <nickolai> yup, a while ago at this point
[20:50] <natrium42> i went to one in NYC
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> hi nickolai
[20:50] <natrium42> years back
[20:50] <nickolai> hey Lunar_Lander
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[20:50] <nickolai> the more i got involved with aerospace the less i had time and energy for MUN
[20:50] <nickolai> i'm good, i launched recently, if you didn't see...
[20:50] <natrium42> :D
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> no, sorry
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> how high and when was it?
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> did you recover?
[20:51] <nickolai> the full story's here: www.nickolai.me/flight-1.html
[20:52] <nickolai> in short: 30km, thursday, and yes
[20:52] <nickolai> but unfortunately the camera battery died after 18km
[20:54] <nickolai> natrium42, just the one?
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> but cool that you made it above 30k!
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[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> and cool that you have a Montenegro site
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:56] <nickolai> ehhhh, i think it was lower than 30km. gps broke at the last second so all i have are estimate
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:56] <nickolai> montenegro? o the .me?
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:56] <nickolai> lol
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> that is the TLD of Montenegro
[20:56] <nickolai> i thought that was a valid extension like com or org
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> but you surely know other countries who sold their TLD?
[20:56] <nickolai> although i knew .tv was tuvalu
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> yes!
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> and .to Tonga
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> .fm is Micronesia
[20:57] <nickolai> lol, it never occured to me that .me was like that
[20:57] <nickolai> o well
[20:57] <nickolai> nickolai.com wasn't available but it doesn't look like they're using it
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:57] <nickolai> i kind of like .me anyway, seeing as it's a personal site
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I actually asked the question how comes that bitly has a libyan domain when they are an US service
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> but it seems like that they now moved to bitly.com
[20:58] <nickolai> i'm also really happy that i could change the banner image from default clouds to one of my own :)
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[20:58] <nickolai> hm, curious that
[20:58] Action: Darkside is putting together a big farnell order
[20:59] <nickolai> i want to try to launch again before the career fair here in a couple weeks :)
[20:59] <Darkside> lots of SMD components...
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> and...
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> Tripoli is under attack
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> Ghadaffi could fall soon
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[20:59] <nickolai> oh really? i hadn't heard that
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:00] <nickolai> it really seems like that war left the american public consciousness a long time ago
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> here it was also almost forgotten
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> new stuff became important
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> like the Shell oil leak
[21:01] <daveake> Oh, that's clever ... USB/TTL adapter with a Tx label on the pin that is actually Rx. And vice versa. Thanks guys!
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> well
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> we once had a
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> how is that thing called that you use on the construction site with the bubble in the glass?
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> spirit level?
[21:02] <daveake> yes
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> we had one with a laser
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> and a wrongly wired switch
[21:02] <nickolai> hm..., never heard of that
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> so that when it was on 0, the laser was ON
[21:02] <nickolai> of a level
[21:02] <nickolai> *oh
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:02] <fsphil> aah one of those dark-light lasers
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah nickolai you also have a weebly page
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> but I haven't got a pro account for the independent UR
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> *URL
[21:04] <nickolai> yup, great service for the html-challenged
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:05] <nickolai> i figure the weebly block isn't that big of a deal
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> mine is www.stratosphere.weebly.com
[21:08] <nickolai> besides it's nice to link people to weebly, it's really great and makes things easy
[21:08] <nickolai> very cool
[21:08] <nickolai> i got the domain from godaddy and when their editor sucked i searched online and found weebly
[21:09] <fsphil> godaddy are evil
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> I started with ideas for flying experiments on manned balloons
[21:10] <nickolai> Lunar_Lander: the link to your first audio update is broken
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> and posted some criticism on the flights of James Glaisher, which caused an descendant of him to write me
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> that was quite cool
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah the Audio Updates are offline
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> sorr
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> +y
[21:11] <nickolai> I've thought about manned balloons as well, that would be supremely challenging...
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> my thought was about tropospheric ballooning
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> as they did in the 19th and 20th century
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> but the thing is
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> I read a 2007 paper, where Giles Harrison of Reading University re-analyzed some data from 1905 balloon flights
[21:12] <Hiena> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/blimp/
[21:15] <Darkside> you need helium to fill that bitch up
[21:15] <Darkside> it's the second element on the periodic table
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> I had another idea
[21:15] <Darkside> oxygen and nitrogen are way behind it, as far as chemicaal elements go they're both pretty srupid
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> nickolai: when my payload is ready I could ask a hot air balloon pilot to take it alon
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> *along
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> just for testing it
[21:16] <nickolai> that's not a bad idea
[21:18] <nickolai> LOL hiena
[21:18] <nickolai> i've thought about bringing some test equipment when i go skydiving, i dunno how the skydiving place would take that tho
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[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:26] <fsphil> parachutes. take that
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> why not ask the people there nickolai?
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil: yeah coldplay!
[21:28] <TimZaman> is it me, or are HAM's dieing out in general. i mean, i have NEVER heared anything on the 70cm band (on my whip)
[21:28] <fsphil> depends where you are I think
[21:28] <fsphil> 70cm is dead here too
[21:28] <fsphil> 2m sometimes
[21:28] <TimZaman> i believe in holland 2m is popular
[21:28] <fsphil> 6m totally
[21:29] <fsphil> but there's a lot of hams here - I think I'm just in a bad spot to hear them
[21:29] <fsphil> up the mountain today I heard a fair few
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[21:32] <fsphil> boo, work tomorrow
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> hey TimZaman
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> nice to see you again
[21:33] <TimZaman> Oh hi
[21:33] <TimZaman> im ssdv'ing like crazy
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> I saw your update
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> so you'll fly again next week or so?
[21:33] <TimZaman> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/ssdv/live/UNKNOWN
[21:34] <TimZaman> i guess
[21:34] <TimZaman> no pressure
[21:34] <TimZaman> 1~3 weeks
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> you wrote you do that on request of your uni
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> how came that?
[21:34] <TimZaman> i have so many prototypes lieing around that i dont really care
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> did they ask you after the december flight?
[21:34] <TimZaman> they liked me sending up a thing with a live broadcast
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:35] <TimZaman> they got a space event with some dutch astronaut there, they liked me to tell what students can do
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> when I turn around
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> when I turn around I see my cupboard with a printout
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> "Ruimtereis voor proefballon"
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> the article about HoHoHo I
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> do you plan more flights after the SpaceCamera Live?
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> TimZaman: ?
[21:44] <TimZaman> Hahaha why would you have that printed?
[21:44] <TimZaman> I plan a lot of flights, i really like the ssdv
[21:45] <TimZaman> but i've got my sailboat as well going to the edges of the world within a week or 2
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> I printed it because it was interesting
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> maybe I can come to one of your launches or you can come to Osnabrueck as well one day
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:49] <TimZaman> do you have a radio
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> I have one, but no license yet
[21:50] <TimZaman> actually what i really liked about my flights is that there are a lot of people still using my images as their background
[21:50] <TimZaman> you dont have to have a licence to listen
[21:51] <TimZaman> also, dutch law, if im there you can send as well.
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> I know that point about listening
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:55] <TimZaman> if you have a radio you can help track here. we have a nice robotlab too
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> I got a FT-790R
[21:55] <TimZaman> i could probably use some listeners i guess
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:55] <TimZaman> that'll do.
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> was a big adventure
[21:56] <TimZaman> you can use my yagi
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> pure luck
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> got it off eBay
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> do you know BASE at DePauw University?
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> it is another balloon program, they made about 60 flights up to now
[21:57] <TimZaman> DePauw?
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, in Indiana
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.depauw.edu/acad/physics/base/
[21:57] <TimZaman> nope
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> their website is cool
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[22:04] <TimZaman> Upu Randomskk u here?
[22:19] <eroomde> yo
[22:19] <eroomde> on way back to ox
[22:20] <Darkside> hey eroomde
[22:22] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/XBjEF.jpg <-- updated version of Micronut
[22:22] <Darkside> fixed some ground loop issues, added some more GPIOs
[22:22] <Darkside> broken out I2C to a small header, so we can attach other sensors
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[22:22] <TimZaman> great renders
[22:22] <Darkside> i found a few I2C differential pressure sensors
[22:23] <Darkside> dunno whether their ratings would work for balloonign tho
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> good luck with those
[22:23] <Darkside> http://www.sensirion.com/en/pdf/product_information/Datasheet_SDP600series_differential_pressure_sensor.pdf
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> ah yes theres those
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> but they are huge and heavy
[22:24] <Darkside> is +-500Pa enough?
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> id say so
[22:24] <eroomde> Darkside: looks good
[22:25] Action: Laurenceb_ needed something light as well
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[22:25] <eroomde> tho 2 bottles of wine = lacking the metal acuity to eyeball yo microstrips
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> btw TimZaman a factor that is good is that my current girlfriend is positive towards ballooning and research
[22:25] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: they weigh 6g
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> my former girlfriend did oppose the project even though it didn't even strained the relationship
[22:26] <Darkside> eroomde: is +-500Pa in a differential pressure sensor good enough?
[22:27] <eroomde> blah
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> girlfriends?!
[22:27] <eroomde> no idea
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> what is this
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> this is supposed to be the internet
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:27] <NigeyS> lol
[22:27] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: i have just been on a date too
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> whats happening O_o
[22:28] <NigeyS> mine just gave me the heave ho.. fun eh :/
[22:28] <eroomde> despite me now being on a coach back to ox it was successful
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[22:28] <eroomde> and also i saw dominic west
[22:29] <eroomde> (mcNulty in The Wire)
[22:29] <eroomde> and shook his hand
[22:29] <eroomde> WIN
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> whats the Wire?
[22:29] <Darkside> crips those pressure sensors are expensive
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> and is it single or multicored?
[22:29] <eroomde> oh dear
[22:29] <Darkside> AUD$113 fo farnell
[22:29] <Darkside> from*
[22:32] <NigeyS> :o
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> i used 26pc01smt
[22:39] <NigeyS> how smal is that ?
[22:40] <Randomskk> that's what she sa--
[22:40] <Randomskk> sorry.
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[22:41] <NigeyS> lol :p
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Mon Aug 22 2011