highaltitude.log.20110818

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[01:14] <nickolai> what's a solid way to attach the balloon to the parachute? just glue the line onto the chute, or pass it through and make a stopper on the other side?
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[02:14] <natrium42> nickolai: no glue!
[02:14] <nickolai> zdorovo aleksei
[02:14] <natrium42> sew a loop to the top
[02:14] <nickolai> sew?!
[02:14] <natrium42> you know, with a sewing machine
[02:14] <natrium42> or thread and needle
[02:14] <natrium42> :P
[02:15] <nickolai> lol, I don't know how to sew!
[02:16] <nickolai> i did just buy some fishing line, i guess i could find a needle and send that through the top of the chute and make a loop...
[02:17] <natrium42> sounds dodgy
[02:17] <nickolai> really?
[02:22] <nickolai> well, i need to head home for the night but i'll try to figure out something tomorrow, hopefully in time for a launch
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[02:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/soccer-style-3x28-binoculars-telescope-91750
[02:41] <SpeedEvil> Quality optics...
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[03:37] <W0OTM> WOO HOO!
[03:37] <W0OTM> Flight test successful
[03:37] <W0OTM> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmXS6bBnDr0
[04:17] <natrium42> neat, so it will be autoguided?
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[04:22] <nickolai> hey natrium42 are you still online?
[04:24] <nickolai> for that matter is anyone on right now?
[04:24] <hibby> iam
[04:24] <hibby> but im literally getting in t'shower
[04:27] <nickolai> would you have time to anwer a question?
[04:27] <hibby> probably
[04:27] <nickolai> i'm wondering what's the best way to connect the parachute to the balloon
[04:28] <nickolai> natrium42 suggested sewing a loop to the top of the parachute
[04:28] <hibby> lemme pull up this page and see
[04:29] <hibby> our guys had cord
[04:30] <hibby> nylon cord, I think with the loop idea
[04:30] <nickolai> hm
[04:30] <hibby> if you go to sunset-skypod.co.uk and look at design->parachute, there's loads of details.
[04:30] <nickolai> thanks ill take a look at that
[04:30] <hibby> they had a spacer
[04:30] <nickolai> i've never really sewed so this is gonna be interesting....
[04:30] <hibby> figure 6 is the final configuration
[04:31] <hibby> everything before that is just maffs
[04:33] <nickolai> hm, these guys did quite a bit of work. i'll peruse a bit, thanks hibby
[04:33] <hibby> the website is very comprehensive
[04:33] <hibby> I'm working on porting it to the wiki
[04:34] <hibby> as the uni have scheduled it for deletion
[04:34] <nickolai> holy shit simulink models? damn
[04:34] <nickolai> deletion, that sucks this seems like a great source of information
[04:35] <hibby> They graduated
[04:35] <hibby> no reason for us to keep it on the servers
[04:35] <hibby> I've got it all downloaded though
[04:35] <hibby> so I might fire it on mine
[04:35] <hibby> but It's already a huge wiki page and I'm not even 1/2 way through design
[04:36] <nickolai> i like the idea of a spacer and duct tape reinforced hole
[04:36] <nickolai> simple implementation, not a lot of extra skills or material required
[04:36] <hibby> they won best undergrad engineering project at the uni this week
[04:36] <hibby> **year
[04:36] <hibby> not week
[04:36] <hibby> :/
[04:39] <nickolai> nice, i can see why, they clearly put a lot of effort into it
[04:41] <nickolai> right, well i'm off to bed, got a big day tomorrow :)
[04:41] <nickolai> thanks for the advice hibby
[04:41] <nickolai> night
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[05:59] <Upu> morning
[05:59] <Upu> great video W0OTM
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[06:31] <fsphil> that is indeed very very sweet W0OTM
[06:59] <number10> fsphil - do you by any chance know - recent micro balloons did not require NOTAM- I think Nigey mentioned less than 2m in size - is that the overall size measured from bottom of payload antenna to the baloon top?
[06:59] <eroomde> my understand is that the entire thing caould fit in a 2m sphere
[06:59] <eroomde> understanding*
[07:00] <number10> cheers eroomde
[07:03] <earthshine> o/
[07:06] <natrium42> oh, i can make it fit >:)
[07:25] <fsphil> yea, 2m in any direction
[07:25] <fsphil> (delayed response :)
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[07:35] <SpeedEvil> 2m sphere when completely expanded, or at launch?
[07:35] <fsphil> at any time iirc
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[07:50] <WillDuckworth> hey cuddykid, did you get the results you needed?
[07:53] <cuddykid> Hi WillDuckworth! Yeah, even better actually! 3A*s & 1a
[07:53] <Upu> grats cuddykid
[07:53] <Upu> hey Adam
[07:54] <Upu> PM me your mail address please for conference
[07:54] <cuddykid> thanks for asking
[07:54] <cuddykid> cheers Upu
[07:54] <cuddykid> will do
[07:54] <cuddykid> ping eroomde
[07:54] <cuddykid> not sure what to do now as I might reapply next year for engineering however the damn fee rise!
[07:55] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Congratulations!
[07:55] <cuddykid> thanks SpeedEvil :)
[07:55] <fsphil> eek, results
[07:55] <SpeedEvil> http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2011/08/15/students-%E2%80%93-lower-earners-deferring-to-2012-could-pay-less/ cuddykid
[07:56] <cuddykid> yeah, I saw that, its all a bit confusing lol.. going to talk to the teachers today see what they think
[07:56] <SpeedEvil> Well - fairly simple really.
[07:57] <SpeedEvil> If you think you're going to earn over 50 grand, it's probably cheaper to do it now
[07:57] <cuddykid> yeah
[07:57] <cuddykid> right, breakfast, bbl, thanks guys
[07:57] <SpeedEvil> Also - teachers aren't usually great with finances
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[08:38] <m1x10> kalimera!
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[08:50] <SamSIlver> m1x10: how goes it with your HAB project and your girlfriend?
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[08:53] <number10> yasas
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[09:07] <SamSilver> bbl
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[09:07] <m1x10> number10: :)
[09:08] <m1x10> number10: who r u?
[09:08] <number10> david - in cambridge, tikanete;
[09:10] <m1x10> lol
[09:10] <m1x10> i dont know you
[09:10] <m1x10> but your greek is cool :)
[09:11] <number10> ligo
[09:11] <m1x10> hahaha
[09:12] <m1x10> i've never seen you here
[09:12] <number10> mainly for when I am in a taverna on holiday - I can say afti i taverna ine poly kala
[09:12] <number10> only been on here last week or so
[09:12] <m1x10> ahaha
[09:13] <m1x10> its poly kali
[09:13] <m1x10> :P
[09:13] <m1x10> so u r from britain?
[09:14] <number10> ah yes - I am a bit rusy - yes from britain - I need to practice more
[09:15] <number10> rusty*
[09:15] <m1x10> well i have a small story to tell for a british family that was here some weeks ago
[09:15] <m1x10> they had a track and they were stuck in the sand
[09:16] <m1x10> my company stopped to help them lift the vehicle but no luck
[09:16] <m1x10> it was heavy
[09:16] <m1x10> then a greek village guy stopped with a land rover those animality cars
[09:17] <m1x10> we told him to put a rope between his rover and the truck and move it
[09:17] <m1x10> and to make a long story short
[09:17] <Darkside> aaaand i'm at work
[09:17] <m1x10> he said give me 30euros to do that
[09:17] <number10> :)
[09:18] <m1x10> we said you are an animal
[09:18] <Darkside> whaaat
[09:18] <m1x10> we went to the brit family and told them about 30e
[09:18] <Darkside> that sucks
[09:18] <m1x10> they gave the money
[09:18] <Darkside> that doesn't happen in australia
[09:18] <Darkside> if you see someone in trouble, you help them
[09:18] <m1x10> we said no you give 15e and my company will give the other 15e
[09:19] <m1x10> we gave the idiot guy 30e
[09:19] <m1x10> and he moved the car
[09:19] <m1x10> and then we told him
[09:19] <m1x10> this family wont come here again
[09:19] <m1x10> he didnt care
[09:19] <number10> maybe - but you can not judge a country by the actions of one person
[09:19] <fsphil> every country has people like that sadly
[09:20] <m1x10> man it sucked
[09:20] <m1x10> i was shame
[09:20] <m1x10> we were shame
[09:20] <m1x10> that had to translate to give money
[09:20] <m1x10> whole family was under the hot sun for hours they were exhausted
[09:21] <m1x10> and then on brit girl from that family started taping all of us :)
[09:21] <m1x10> because we helped them
[09:21] <fsphil> yea, people from these high altitudes don't do heat well :)
[09:21] <fsphil> latitudes*
[09:21] <m1x10> yeah
[09:21] <number10> whwre abouts in greece are you m1x10
[09:21] <fsphil> woo, on-topic typo
[09:22] <number10> lol psphil
[09:22] <m1x10> im from thessalonike
[09:22] <m1x10> 2nd capital in north greece
[09:22] <number10> nice - I have not been there yet
[09:22] <m1x10> its the best city on the planet :)
[09:22] <fsphil> friend of mine goes to greece a lot, must find out where he goes
[09:23] <fsphil> I'd likely melt
[09:23] <m1x10> but unemployement reached 30%
[09:23] <m1x10> and many young people cant work
[09:23] <number10> it must be dificult with that unemployment for the younger generation
[09:23] <fsphil> that's pretty harsh
[09:24] <m1x10> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaloniki
[09:24] <m1x10> its disaster
[09:25] <m1x10> i just finished from army and iam ready to do my own thing at 26yo
[09:25] <m1x10> and i cantstart :(
[09:25] <number10> what did you want to do?
[09:25] <fsphil> it's sad because there are people here who don't work, just because they don't want to
[09:26] <m1x10> fsphil: fail
[09:27] <m1x10> number10: live on my own with some person
[09:27] <m1x10> and do my life
[09:27] <m1x10> in general
[09:27] <m1x10> http://www.holiday.gr/members_images/15477.jpg, http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hp9KAp9UuwA/TjnTrQnw94I/AAAAAAAADdg/Esx2sY0hXuc/s1600/141268-thessaloniki.jpg, http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RpF0T-Uowsc/ThfnGPBf4uI/AAAAAAAAAD8/HuPFyB7D4lA/s1600/thessaloniki.jpg, http://www.digital-camera.gr/photos/thessaloniki_by_night.jpg, http://www.tzesot.com/admin/offer_pics/images/hotels/Thessaloniki.jpg
[09:27] <m1x10> those are some pics
[09:28] <fsphil> nice
[09:30] <number10> inai poly ormofosa
[09:30] <number10> ormofos
[09:30] Action: fsphil is listening to christmas music
[09:30] <m1x10> number10: lol
[09:31] <m1x10> einai poly omorfa
[09:31] <number10> how do you also say aurao
[09:31] <m1x10> aurio ?
[09:31] <m1x10> tomorrow
[09:31] <number10> beuatiful aurao ??
[09:31] <m1x10> what is that aurao?
[09:31] <m1x10> aura?
[09:32] <number10> cant even spell the english word ;(
[09:32] <m1x10> aura
[09:32] <m1x10> if u mean that
[09:32] <m1x10> its same exactly
[09:32] <m1x10> its greek origin :P
[09:33] <number10> I see
[09:33] <fsphil> pesky english, stealing all your words ;)
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[09:33] <m1x10> you there used thousands of greek words so you already know much greek :)
[09:34] <m1x10> but i have said that thing here many times and people get sick of me so i wont tell more :)
[09:34] <number10> and my favorite phrase is ena bookali aspro krasi parakolo
[09:34] <m1x10> hahahha
[09:34] <m1x10> u lol
[09:35] <m1x10> its parakalo
[09:35] <m1x10> kolos in greek means ass
[09:35] <number10> yes, I just cant type
[09:35] <number10> lol
[09:36] <number10> must be carfull with my pronounciation
[09:36] <m1x10> no sounds cool
[09:36] <m1x10> here we love to hear people from other countries speaking greek
[09:37] <number10> thats why I make an effort when I go to greece as people appreciate a few words, and its fun
[09:38] <m1x10> but some other people will ask you for money to help you solve your trouble :(
[09:38] <m1x10> village animals
[09:38] <number10> well i am sue its not everyone
[09:38] <number10> sure*
[09:39] <m1x10> yes but they make to bad impression that im sure it can afffect some peoples
[09:39] <m1x10> peoples' opinion*
[09:43] <m1x10> number10: where i do holidays
[09:43] <m1x10> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1921725967665&set=a.1921725807661.2098596.1377549819&type=1
[09:44] <m1x10> i think you can see whole album
[09:44] <number10> sory I do not have facebook account so can not see page
[09:44] <m1x10> you just need to login
[09:44] <m1x10> :P
[09:45] <m1x10> http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205920_1921725967665_1377549819_1781358_7228157_n.jpg
[09:45] <m1x10> on the left me
[09:45] <m1x10> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/229746_1921728647732_1377549819_1781360_6826940_n.jpg
[09:45] <m1x10> http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/183934_1921751048292_1377549819_1781389_853936_n.jpg
[09:46] <m1x10> http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285062_1947761898547_1377549819_1813212_7066421_n.jpg
[09:47] <m1x10> http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/292185_1947748498212_1377549819_1813173_2532380_n.jpg
[09:47] <m1x10> in this camping
[09:47] <m1x10> many nnorth europeans come
[09:48] <number10> it looks nice
[09:49] <m1x10> http://www.campingstavros.gr/
[09:51] <number10> i heard halkidiki was nice
[09:52] <m1x10> its exotic :)
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[09:53] <m1x10> you bring your girl here you make love to her all day on the beach and next day she asks to marry her :)
[09:53] <m1x10> http://www.halkidiki.com/vourvourou/vourvourou-area2.htm
[09:53] <m1x10> http://www.halkidiki.com/vourvourou/vourvourou-area1.htm
[09:53] <m1x10> secret beaches :)
[09:54] <number10> lol - she already did marry me - and I dont think she would be too happy about making love on the beach at her age
[09:54] <m1x10> loooool
[09:54] <m1x10> you old ?
[09:54] <m1x10> :P
[09:54] <m1x10> shame :(
[09:57] <number10> yes - it will happen to you aswell - Upu thought James May was old - and he is two years younger - so I must be
[09:57] <m1x10> yes i know upu :)
[09:58] <m1x10> yes it will happen to me but i need to get married first!
[09:58] <m1x10> at what age you got married?
[09:58] <daveake> James May? 48. A mere child .... lol
[09:58] <number10> thats what I said to Upu daveake
[09:59] <daveake> :)
[09:59] <Upu> he looks about 50 something
[09:59] <daveake> I'm just 15. And apparently dyslexic.
[09:59] <m1x10> lol
[09:59] <number10> 48 aint far uff ;)
[09:59] <number10> same age as me then daveake
[09:59] <m1x10> number10: you know that word dyslexic?
[10:00] <number10> yes it is greek
[10:00] <m1x10> see you know greek :)
[10:00] <m1x10> its exactly same :)
[10:00] <m1x10> dyslexikos
[10:01] <number10> not the sort of word I need for a taverna though ;)
[10:01] <m1x10> lol
[10:01] <m1x10> souvlaki gyros :)
[10:01] <number10> gigantes
[10:01] <m1x10> hahahahahah
[10:02] <number10> horta, ke arni me patates sto forno
[10:02] <m1x10> ooooo
[10:02] <m1x10> lol
[10:02] <m1x10> !
[10:02] <m1x10> mmmm
[10:02] <m1x10> im hungry now
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[10:03] <number10> me too - but no greek taverna near by :( -- anyway wee seem to be hijacking this channel - maybe anoying some people (I hope not)
[10:04] <m1x10> yes we do :)
[10:04] <daveake> I've send in the application for my second launch. Wonder how long that will take to process ...
[10:05] <m1x10> so do u have a hab number10 ?
[10:06] <number10> no HAB yet - just got started bought an AOR AR 8000, and have a prototype PIC sending rtty - I need to learn more - and the guys here are helpful - so I will try and track a few HABs firsts
[10:07] <daveake> Same receiver as mine.
[10:07] <daveake> Er, whoops ... no, I have the 8200
[10:07] <Randomskk> daveake: where abouts are you?
[10:07] <daveake> Near Newbury in Berks
[10:08] <daveake> I'm preparing 2 HABs ... was wondering about sending one of them up at one of those two sites in Cambridgeshire
[10:08] <number10> you launched the first one nearby where you live last time daveake?
[10:08] <Randomskk> yea I was about to say, if you can get to cambridge we'd be welcome to launch from cusf's site. but you would need to bring your own helium
[10:09] <daveake> A few yards away, yes!
[10:09] <m1x10> my hab is almost ready i just need money to buy stuff like balloons parachutes helieum
[10:09] <Randomskk> s/we'd/you'd*
[10:09] <daveake> Randomskk ... I think I'll do that. Helium is no problem.
[10:09] <daveake> It's a couple of hours drive from here I think
[10:09] <Randomskk> if it's in term time then I'll be around anyway or other people will so it's really easy
[10:09] <daveake> What do I need to "book" ?
[10:09] <Randomskk> I live in weybridge and it's like, two hours or something
[10:10] <Randomskk> oh not much. any idea of time?
[10:10] <Randomskk> if it's not in term time then it's slightly more hassle as someone would have to come up to cambridge
[10:10] <daveake> OK, when does term start?
[10:10] <Randomskk> good question
[10:10] <daveake> lol
[10:10] <Randomskk> I'm in cambridge from the 24th sept
[10:10] <Randomskk> term starts a bit later
[10:11] <number10> thats a long summer holiday Rendomskk - I am enyous
[10:11] <Randomskk> if you are ready to fly I'm going up to cambridge tomorrow evenign for a saturday launch :P
[10:11] <daveake> I'm aiming for about 5 weeks away for the local launch. If I get a cylinder large enough for both launches, then ideally the Cambridge launch would be 2-3 weeks after
[10:11] <Randomskk> number10: hah, you have idea :P
[10:11] <daveake> Er, no, not ready!
[10:11] <Randomskk> number10: started 11th june
[10:11] <number10> :(
[10:11] <Randomskk> finishes 6th sept
[10:11] <Randomskk> uhh
[10:12] <Randomskk> oct
[10:12] <number10> dont make me feel bad
[10:12] <Randomskk> 6ct oct
[10:12] <Randomskk> if it's any consolation I am in full time employment for 11 of the 13ish weeks
[10:12] <Randomskk> so it's more like a two week holiday
[10:12] <number10> thts nice to hear
[10:13] <Randomskk> :P
[10:13] <number10> what sort of work are you doing in the break - anything relevant to studies
[10:13] <daveake> OK, so the weekend of 8th/9th could work. Or Sunday 16th (day after the conf)
[10:13] <daveake> October this is
[10:13] <Randomskk> yea, data analysis and visualisation stuff, plus software development, for a telematics car insurance provider
[10:14] <Randomskk> so basically working out how good a driver someone is from their gps data ;o
[10:14] <daveake> :)
[10:14] <number10> oh - I dont need that sort of thing :(
[10:14] <daveake> Nor me!
[10:14] <number10> my premium would jump
[10:14] <Randomskk> haha
[10:14] <Randomskk> yea I think the idea is that now they can't discriminate based on gender they're going to have to actually discriminate based on skill
[10:15] <number10> I think I will make a GPS jammer
[10:15] <Randomskk> well based on driving style and skill. if you drive dangerous intentionally that's a different thing :P
[10:15] <Randomskk> daveake: are you going to the conference?
[10:15] <daveake> Yep
[10:16] <Randomskk> cool
[10:16] <Randomskk> so, hm
[10:16] <Randomskk> provisionally either is fine with me
[10:17] <m1x10> hello Randomskk
[10:17] <Randomskk> if we confirm it a couple of weeks before I can make arrangements our end and all that.
[10:17] <Randomskk> m1x10: hi
[10:18] <daveake> My payload for that one is pretty minimal. Aiming for as little above 100g including 'chute as I can get.
[10:18] <Randomskk> cool
[10:18] <Randomskk> going for a high altitude or what?
[10:18] <Randomskk> beward long annoying chases ;P
[10:18] <daveake> Maybe :)
[10:18] <daveake> lol
[10:18] <daveake> I have 2 1kg balloons here, and a 1.6kg on order
[10:19] <Randomskk> cool
[10:19] <daveake> RocketBoy - both 1kg balloons arrived safely yesterday, thanks :)
[10:19] <Darkside> Randomskk: this weekend should be interesting
[10:19] <Randomskk> Darkside: yea
[10:19] <Darkside> 2 balloons, both going roughly the same direction
[10:19] <Randomskk> Darkside: also I think it will be the first flight habitat goes live on
[10:19] <Randomskk> so there's that. :P
[10:20] <Darkside> i think mine will land in the ocean though
[10:20] <Upu> we got a launch this weekend ?
[10:20] <Darkside> Upu: possibly a double launch
[10:20] <daveake> Makes a change from the River Severn
[10:20] <Darkside> not sure what NigelMoby is doing
[10:20] <RocketBoy> thanks daveake
[10:20] <Upu> yay
[10:20] <RocketBoy> daveake: look inside both boxes?
[10:21] <daveake> Only the one ............
[10:21] <number10> what are the predictions looking like - I was thinking of going to woodbridge on saturday - it may reach me
[10:21] <RocketBoy> :-)
[10:21] <daveake> ......... is the other one a brick then? lol
[10:21] <RocketBoy> nope
[10:21] <RocketBoy> I found a 1600
[10:21] <Randomskk> number10: haven't looked personally but one of the balloons is probably going to be all floaty and annoying and drift for sodding ages
[10:21] <daveake> Ah!!
[10:22] <daveake> I shall open when I get home this evening!
[10:22] <RocketBoy> so we are all square!
[10:22] <number10> maybe I'll get a chance t o track
[10:22] <daveake> I only got as far as "yes, that looks like a balloon" :)
[10:23] <daveake> Cheers RocketBoy :)
[10:24] <daveake> I was paying too much attention to cutting the boxes apart without cutting the balloons to take much notice of the exact contents!
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[10:46] <fsphil> daveake, my neighbour got one of the packages containing the balloons once because I was out. and their kid tried to open it with a kitchen knife
[10:47] <daveake> !!!!!!!!!
[10:47] <fsphil> my reaction too
[10:47] <daveake> Well, the knife would have come in handy when you got hold of him ;)
[10:48] <fsphil> two balloons in it, I was really worried when I was filling them :)
[10:48] <daveake> I bet
[10:50] <fsphil> RocketBoy had them packed pretty well, think that's what saved them
[10:52] <RocketBoy> humm - I will bear that scenario in mind when paccking
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[10:52] <eroomde> http://www.archive.catholicherald.co.uk/images/life/cl0000459.jpg
[10:52] <eroomde> spot the habber
[10:54] <fsphil> muhaha
[10:55] <jonsowman> hehehe
[10:55] Action: fsphil picks one at *random*
[10:55] <jonsowman> i see what you did there
[10:56] <Randomskk> oh sly
[10:57] <fsphil> also I cheated and googled the picture url
[10:58] <Randomskk> hah
[10:58] <Randomskk> you know you can google image search for images like the image you upload now?
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[10:59] <fsphil> oh that's neat!
[11:08] <m1x10> SamSilver: hi!
[11:10] <SamSilver> hi m1x10 was afk
[11:10] <SamSilver> how is the puppy?
[11:11] <m1x10> what puppy?
[11:12] <m1x10> fsphil's puppy ? :p
[11:12] <SamSilver> oops I think I am confusing you with the from greece who was in the army
[11:12] <m1x10> im that
[11:12] <m1x10> :P
[11:12] <fsphil> my puppy is 11 years old :)
[11:13] <m1x10> lol
[11:13] <SamSilver> you lost a dog and got a puppy it's name started with a M
[11:13] <m1x10> ahhh
[11:13] <SamSilver> poisen
[11:13] <m1x10> you dont know the story very well
[11:14] <m1x10> yes Maila. From army camp. she died from poison. But i dont have puppies at home though my father is a vet :)
[11:15] <SamSilver> how is you gf and your payload?
[11:16] <m1x10> i dont have gf. and my payload is waiting its balloon parachues helium and some other stuff which i cant afford now :)
[11:16] <Darkside> i think having a girlfriend would be more expensive than having HAB as a hobby
[11:17] <SamSilver> I don't have a gf either, my wife does not like it
[11:17] <m1x10> lol
[11:17] <fsphil> unless the GF is into hab'ing
[11:17] <SamSilver> :p
[11:17] <m1x10> yeah
[11:17] Action: fsphil lives in hope :)
[11:17] <m1x10> hahha
[11:17] <SamSilver> I had some hope for lauren but it turns out it is Laurence
[11:18] <SamSilver> Lauren ceb
[11:18] <m1x10> SamSilver got fb account?
[11:18] <SamSilver> yes
[11:18] <m1x10> want to 'like' my project?
[11:18] <SamSilver> I have seen your stuff you made
[11:18] <SamSilver> yes sure link
[11:18] <SamSilver> please
[11:19] <SamSilver> very well made
[11:19] <m1x10> http://www.facebook.com/slaros.project
[11:19] <m1x10> thanks !
[11:19] <SamSilver> no prob afk
[11:23] <m1x10> SamSilver: ok!
[11:25] <eroomde> the begiining of this conversation is surreal
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[11:33] <SamSilver> m1x10: done
[11:36] <fsphil> woo-hoo, duct tape arrived
[11:39] <Darkside> my GPS won't get here until tomorrow
[11:39] <Randomskk> just in time, then?
[11:40] <Darkside> yeah
[11:40] <Darkside> i'll have to finish off the payload tonight
[11:41] <Darkside> though i don't have any hot glue
[11:42] Action: Upu high fives fsphil
[11:42] <Upu> welcome to the gang
[11:42] <fsphil> lol
[11:42] <fsphil> no pink :)
[11:42] <fsphil> got yellow and orange
[11:42] <Upu> still far brighter than it needs to be therefore you're in the "the gang"
[11:43] <fsphil> the yellow is great, even under these florescent lights
[11:43] <fsphil> should look better in daylight
[11:50] <eroomde> I think if someone where to buy 20 rolls of flourescent orange ducktape and bring them to HABcon '11 then lots of of people would buy them
[11:50] <eroomde> i'd get a few rolls
[11:51] <Laurenceb> http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/06/darpa-continues-micro-gyroscope-project.html
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[11:53] <GW8RAK> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orange-Duck-Duct-Gaffa-Gaffer-Cloth-Tape-50mm-x-10m-/250851253366?pt=UK_Crafts_Cardmaking_Scrapbooking_Glue_Tape_EH&hash=item3a67e65c76
[11:54] <daveake> I used the yellow hi viz reflective tape. Certainly helped!
[11:59] <fsphil> on my desk the orange stands out more, but I'd say yellow would be better for the inevitable tree landing
[11:59] <eroomde> http://www.hardware-ironmongers.com/details.aspx?code=6860170
[12:00] <eroomde> might get some
[12:02] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/38keO.jpg
[12:02] <Laurenceb> woops - seeedstudio
[12:03] <Darkside> ?
[12:03] <Randomskk> hmm that's not what you want in a ground plane
[12:03] <Randomskk> haha oh boy, "GCSE's" is trending on twitter.
[12:03] <daveake> I thought it'd probably be dark by the time I found it, and the hiviz would work well under torchlight :)
[12:03] <Darkside> only half the image is loading
[12:03] <daveake> same here
[12:04] <Darkside> ok that is the image
[12:04] <Laurenceb> its cropped
[12:04] <Darkside> that the whole thing
[12:04] <Darkside> also ouch
[12:04] <Darkside> interesitn flaws there by fusion pcb...
[12:04] <Darkside> i'll be making sure to inspect all of the PCBs i get from the
[12:06] <m1x10> SamSilver: u r not there :(
[12:06] <W0OTM> morning
[12:07] <SamSilver> m1x10: you do know my name is not Sam but David
[12:08] <m1x10> yes?
[12:08] <m1x10> but still no david
[12:08] <SamSilver> hmmm
[12:09] <SamSilver> refreash
[12:09] <m1x10> yeah
[12:09] <m1x10> better :)
[12:09] <m1x10> thanks
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[12:12] <m1x10> almost 30!
[12:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/18/lohan_irw/
[12:13] <Laurenceb> *facepalm*
[12:19] <eroomde> cool
[12:19] <eroomde> so for my new pcb design I've decided that this time I will do a DRC and ERC
[12:19] <Randomskk> way to rock the boat there ed
[12:19] <eroomde> i know right?
[12:19] <Randomskk> practically unheard of
[12:20] <eroomde> fuck me that lohan concept is insane
[12:20] <eroomde> it is with me!
[12:20] <Randomskk> but it's just like, unit tests, right? you're just being agile?
[12:20] <eroomde> i didn't do a drc on badger2
[12:20] <eroomde> well actually i did
[12:20] <eroomde> but i ignored all the errors
[12:20] <Randomskk> all 500+?
[12:20] <eroomde> it wasn't that many
[12:20] <Randomskk> you say that
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[12:20] <Randomskk> it was definitely three digits
[12:20] <eroomde> 180ish i think
[12:21] <eroomde> though there are always some...
[12:21] <Randomskk> oh god wha the
[12:21] <Randomskk> they are going to launch a rocket
[12:21] <Randomskk> pointing down
[12:21] <eroomde> 128 were from the lpc part having pads that were too close together
[12:21] <eroomde> 120 even.
[12:21] <Randomskk> that is really annoying
[12:21] <eroomde> lots were like that
[12:22] <eroomde> i missed the three or four actual show stoppers in among those
[12:28] <SamSilver> bbl
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[12:30] Action: Laurenceb thinks seedstudio have gone downhill :-/
[12:30] <Laurenceb> might try pcbtrain in future
[12:30] <Laurenceb> they arent _that_ expensive
[12:30] <Randomskk> spirit circuits
[12:30] <eroomde> we used pcbtrain for badgers 2 and cub
[12:30] <eroomde> they were fine
[12:31] <eroomde> except a day late one time
[12:31] <eroomde> but they gave me a refund
[12:31] <Laurenceb> wow
[12:31] <eroomde> i should have spent the extra day drc-ing
[12:31] <Laurenceb> thats nice of them
[12:31] <eroomde> not a full refund, just a refund on the difference between the 4 and 5 day services
[12:32] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: thats a pcb designer
[12:32] <Laurenceb> ok
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[12:37] <Darkside> eroomde: yeah we use pcbtrain here
[12:37] <Darkside> for topcat
[12:37] <Darkside> no wait, maybe its pcbpool
[12:38] <Darkside> i just re-soldered the gps cable
[12:38] <Darkside> now i'm going to go hunt for a hot glue gun so i can secure it a bit better
[12:38] <Darkside> back later
[12:39] <Laurenceb> pcbdrool
[12:39] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: spirit do manufacture
[12:39] <Laurenceb> oh, interesting
[12:39] <daveake> Laurenceb: we use PCBTrain. They've been good so far, in about 15 jobs. They're just down the road from here which is handy for rush jobs!
[12:39] <Laurenceb> whats the price like?
[12:40] <fsphil> man it's pouring down here.. can't hear the other people in the office over the noise on the roof
[12:40] <Randomskk> ranges. generally good. they did have an excellent ebay offer a while back that's off now I think
[12:40] <Randomskk> they also do boards for free
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[12:41] <Randomskk> like, basic fr4+copper, no soldermask, no silk. drills and pth, though. 24hr service
[12:41] <Laurenceb> what are the prices like?
[12:42] <Randomskk> you just asked that and I just answereed :P
[12:42] <Laurenceb> free?!
[12:42] <Randomskk> well read
[12:43] <jonsowman> Laurenceb: here's one of their free ones Randomskk made http://hexoc.com/i/index.php/CUSF/adf_front
[12:44] <Randomskk> the dodgy board cutout is me
[12:44] <eroomde> gnawed?
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[12:44] <Randomskk> yea
[12:44] <Randomskk> couldn't find the dremel cutter disk so I used my teeth
[12:44] <jonsowman> haha
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[12:45] <Laurenceb> is that a DDS?
[12:45] <Randomskk> nothing so cool. PLL.
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[12:45] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:46] <eroomde> what's the cheapest 4-layer service currently?
[12:46] <eroomde> still gold phoenix?
[12:48] <eroomde> also, recommendations for an stm32f2 (the newwer parts) dev board that should play nicely with chibios?
[12:49] <Laurenceb> http://api.ning.com/files/wvTB1HqiZUhneQ7YEXLJR3Mcsftieab14S3Moqh6CWzLbzLGqCeBNWbJOUMq5puMGMivg-N4vK2ZeV-VV*-0uQ__/161W2242.jpg
[12:49] Action: Randomskk is also interested in stm32f2 dev boards. do they do a Discovery series board in that line?
[12:49] <Randomskk> to be honest I might do what I always do and just make a bare-bones one
[12:49] <Laurenceb> theres an stm32f2 on the other side for you :P
[12:49] <Randomskk> my stm32f1 series breakout board runs chibios nicely
[12:49] <Laurenceb> /troll
[12:50] <Laurenceb> http://api.ning.com/files/CkNwRNamRkrSSoQTPVs4cZI05UE7*AnFMoUdsF8BzyYPFERafzXXBB6Q6pJ4TPm1YrlNN9CfREI4ih98yZ-jdg__/161W2237.jpg
[12:51] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/v4zSq.jpg <-- much more secure
[12:51] <Laurenceb> is that flying?
[12:51] <Darkside> yup
[12:51] <Darkside> >_>
[12:52] <Laurenceb> when?
[12:52] <Darkside> saturday
[12:52] <Laurenceb> awesome
[12:52] <Darkside> about 10am i think, not sure when nigel is launching his
[12:52] <Darkside> i still reckon we should launch at the same time
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[12:53] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=c05c1286312ca73a4ef1dab920c149059b797daa
[12:53] <Laurenceb> oops
[12:54] <number10> shame - my brother just sold his boat
[12:54] <eroomde> Randomskk: yeah i could do a bare bones one too
[12:54] <eroomde> but it'll probably be more expensive
[12:54] <Randomskk> true
[12:54] <eroomde> i just want to hack with a known working one
[12:54] <Randomskk> seeed's $10 PCBs plus farnell's no min order value thing usually make it not too bad, but indeed
[12:54] <eroomde> and for once breadboard a design and get it working, *then* make a pcb
[12:54] <Randomskk> mostly I dislike commercial dev boards for having too much silly crap on them
[12:55] <eroomde> it concentrates the mind when its your own money
[12:55] <eroomde> rather than CUSF's
[12:55] <Darkside> Laurenceb: eroomde : http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=aab9c50035c550aaccff6d20da9253ae3dda4986
[12:55] <Darkside> thats more accurate
[12:55] Action: Laurenceb is going to do a dactyl2 with stm32f2
[12:55] <Randomskk> eh, my stm32 boards were my cash
[12:55] <Darkside> it doesn't take into account floating through
[12:55] <Laurenceb> but might take a while
[12:55] <Darkside> but that'll just put it even further away
[12:55] <daveake> Darkside: I see you've peeled back the label on the NTX2 ... anything useful to adjust there?
[12:55] <Darkside> daveake: that was by accident
[12:55] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=cde6c317bf3b2504c32943493bd17640d15262aa
[12:56] <Darkside> but you can use it to adjust teh shift slightly
[12:56] <daveake> ah lol
[12:56] <Darkside> Laurenceb: we're going for a slow ascent rate
[12:56] <Darkside> with an underfilled 1.6kg balloon
[12:56] <daveake> I thought you were going to say "this is how you up the power to 100mW" lol
[12:56] <Laurenceb> :-/
[12:56] <Darkside> Laurenceb: we're aiming for a floater at 40km
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Not latex then?
[12:57] <Darkside> normal latex balloon, yes
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Or a very oversized balloon
[12:57] <Darkside> the chineese ones
[12:57] <Darkside> chinese*
[12:57] <Darkside> but yeah, oversized
[12:57] <Laurenceb> no way
[12:58] <Laurenceb> i doubt itll work
[12:58] <Darkside> the total payload weight is 150g Laurenceb
[12:58] <Darkside> or thereabouts
[12:58] <daveake> It'll be a floater at 36km then :)
[12:58] <Randomskk> I'm very dubious that it'l hit 40km
[12:58] <Darkside> yeah
[12:58] <Laurenceb> hmm
[12:58] <Darkside> i don't know if it'll get that high
[12:58] <Randomskk> it's more that we have a pressure sensor onboard that might give useful data
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> You can think of the extra internal pressure as the weight rising as it gets higher.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> If you decrease the payload, you can counteract this
[12:59] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: well the payload is 150g, and thats about as light as i'll get it
[12:59] <Darkside> thats still pretty fucking light
[13:00] <fsphil> if it floats it's likely to head north west from the looks of the prediction
[13:00] <fsphil> it might reach land again
[13:00] <Randomskk> just spoke to another guy who didn't realise that the EARS NOTAM is weekends only
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[13:01] <fsphil> hehe, if I launched at the same time: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=abc9cdc3df26efdf64291391796353b30c5a1f38
[13:01] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=ad52b4e4c386e313b4e428c867ab9aae7290408a
[13:02] <Laurenceb> stratospheric vortex is back onto the mainland
[13:02] <Laurenceb> if you can get it to float you might make a recovery
[13:02] <fsphil> this is going to be a great flight
[13:05] <Laurenceb> you need to get about 25Km
[13:05] <Laurenceb> make that 22
[13:06] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=9308a4911706614e0aa58587cdb6a2c4e4335ea8
[13:08] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=31226806a8a1425bb3457f52de8d3476d0d53bfb
[13:08] <Laurenceb> ^if you can do a slow ascent then float you might be in luck
[13:08] <russss> it would be cool to see max/average speed over ground in the predictor
[13:08] <Darkside> heh
[13:08] <Darkside> Laurenceb: i don't mind if i don't get it back
[13:08] <Laurenceb> the predictor needs a float option
[13:09] <Randomskk> yea yea and a pony
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> A 'draw your own altitude graph' would be fun.
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> But...
[13:10] <Randomskk> you can all file pull requests, I'm sure jonsowman would be delighted to merge your new features :P
[13:10] <jonsowman> yep, no problem :P
[13:11] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e7c9a38ed3e99449767219ce4bab102069a4389b
[13:11] <Laurenceb> landing north of hull
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[13:12] <Laurenceb> id try cutting down on the chute so you come down as fast as poss
[13:12] <eroomde> predictor is getting a float option peeps
[13:13] <Darkside> wooooo
[13:13] <jonsowman> i think james hacked that option into a clone of the binary a while back
[13:13] <jonsowman> needs integrating with the UI though
[13:14] <Randomskk> pyinthesky does float apparently :P
[13:14] <eroomde> correct
[13:14] <eroomde> it's not hacky
[13:14] <eroomde> the actual predictor function just has a floatime=0 argument
[13:14] <eroomde> floattime*
[13:15] <jonsowman> oh cool
[13:15] <Darkside> we have no way of knowing the float time though
[13:15] <eroomde> correct
[13:15] <Darkside> unless you want to build in a way of simulating the uv-induced breakdown of a balloon
[13:15] <eroomde> no of course i don't
[13:15] <eroomde> that would be ludicrous
[13:15] <Darkside> :P
[13:16] <eroomde> but there are other times where you have a good enough control to 'float'
[13:16] <eroomde> or approximately float
[13:16] <eroomde> eg dual balloons
[13:16] <Darkside> mm
[13:16] <Darkside> whats the ground wind forecast for saturday?
[13:17] <Darkside> NigelMoby: ping
[13:17] <eroomde> 8/9mph
[13:17] <Darkside> ok, not so bad
[13:17] <eroomde> i need plans from you tonight if poss
[13:17] <Darkside> yeah
[13:17] <eroomde> or definitely by midday tomorrow
[13:17] <eroomde> who i am picking up from where
[13:17] <Darkside> im going to book the train tickets tonight
[13:17] <Darkside> i just need to find out what NigelMoby is doing
[13:17] <eroomde> i am moving into my house tomorrow so will definitely not have time to organize anything myself
[13:17] <Darkside> eroomde: what time were you planning on leaving
[13:17] <Laurenceb> looks a bit nicer if you launch laster
[13:18] <Laurenceb> *later
[13:18] <eroomde> Darkside: as soon as you can get to a station near me i guess
[13:18] <Laurenceb> the stratospheric vortex gets stronger at night
[13:18] <eroomde> i am yours on saturday
[13:18] <eroomde> except...
[13:18] <Darkside> how long will it take to get to cambridge from didcot
[13:18] <Laurenceb> not in a gay way?
[13:18] <eroomde> i need to leave the earlier the better
[13:18] <eroomde> about 2hrs
[13:18] <Darkside> ok
[13:18] <Darkside> so i need to get there early
[13:18] <eroomde> but yes, i have to leave earlyish on sat because some of my stuff is being delivered to ox
[13:19] <Darkside> ok
[13:19] <eroomde> so if we can get the balloon in the air by 9am, so much the better
[13:19] <Darkside> i'll get a single-train ticket there, and a aytime return back
[13:19] <eroomde> ok cool
[13:19] <eroomde> a day return might be cheaper
[13:19] <eroomde> check
[13:20] <Darkside> so i can get into didcot at 6:30, 7, 7:30 and 8
[13:20] <eroomde> it is predicting to be a sea landing
[13:20] <eroomde> so no chase
[13:20] <Darkside> yeah
[13:20] <eroomde> if that changes, we will have to play it by ear
[13:21] <eroomde> as i'm not sure if i can do 4/5 hrs of chasing
[13:21] <Darkside> so we'll be hanging around cambridge until we know whats going on i guess
[13:21] <eroomde> this is the joy of house moves
[13:21] <Darkside> nigey's might need to be chased
[13:22] <Darkside> but even his may be close to a sea landing
[13:22] <Darkside> so what time do you want me at didcot eroomde ?
[13:23] <Darkside> 6:30 (ugh), 7am, or 7:30am
[13:24] <eroomde> 6.30 poss?
[13:24] <Darkside> ugh ok
[13:24] <eroomde> it'll be 8.30 when we get there
[13:24] <Darkside> lots of caffeine required
[13:24] <eroomde> Randomskk, jonsowman ping
[13:24] <eroomde> your input required
[13:24] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
[13:24] <eroomde> are you about on sat?
[13:24] <eroomde> in cam
[13:24] <jonsowman> coming to cam for the launch, yup
[13:24] <Randomskk> I'm going up to cam friday night, will be around sat morning
[13:24] <Darkside> jonsowman: we may be doing a dual launch, nigeys and mine
[13:24] <eroomde> is a 9am launch (so churchill sort of 8-8.30) tolerable for you cxhaps?
[13:24] <jonsowman> no problem
[13:25] <Randomskk> should be fine.
[13:25] <eroomde> do we have enough he for dual launches?
[13:25] <Randomskk> 30 minutes arrive to release?
[13:25] <Randomskk> I think nigey is bringing He
[13:25] <eroomde> if not,we need a canister ordered in the next 2 hours
[13:25] <jonsowman> nigey is bringing He
[13:25] <eroomde> ok
[13:25] <eroomde> fine
[13:25] <Randomskk> we have "three mysterious bottles"
[13:25] <Laurenceb> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=fe0443459368b19a46332536f4e4a16340b54d4e
[13:25] <Darkside> jonsowman: i'm not sure abotu the transport
[13:25] <jonsowman> Darkside: what do you mean?
[13:25] <Laurenceb> if you are very lucky with a long float you might recover
[13:25] <Randomskk> any number of those three might or might not be full
[13:25] <jonsowman> Randomskk: unlikely to be completely empty, but yes
[13:25] <Darkside> jonsowman: i don't know if nigel has transport to cambridge at the moment
[13:25] <eroomde> one only needs about 1/3 of a dark for Darkside 's
[13:25] <jonsowman> eroomde: best to order a bottle anyway?
[13:25] <Darkside> i need to contact him and be sure
[13:26] <jonsowman> eroomde: ok, cool
[13:26] <eroomde> jonsowman: up to you. if we are just doing Darkside then i think we'll be fine
[13:26] <jonsowman> Darkside: yep, let me know
[13:26] <jonsowman> eroomde: cool ok
[13:26] <jonsowman> seriously underfilling then?
[13:26] <Darkside> calling him now
[13:26] <jonsowman> 1/3 of a bottle in a 1600g
[13:28] <eroomde> yes
[13:28] <eroomde> i think there's going to be about <2kg worth of lift total
[13:28] <jonsowman> cool
[13:28] <Darkside> jonsowman: payload is approx 150g
[13:28] <jonsowman> i remember on one of james' we aimed for ~750g lift
[13:29] <Darkside> i'll be finishing it up tonight and measuring it tomorrow
[13:29] <Darkside> ok eroomde i'll book the train that gets me to didcot at 6:30
[13:29] <Darkside> learing here at 5:45AM >_>
[13:29] <Darkside> leaving*
[13:30] <Darkside> wtf, why is an anytime day return 45 pounds
[13:30] <Darkside> from didcot to here
[13:30] <Darkside> what is defined as off-peak for these trains?
[13:31] <Randomskk> usually after 9.30 or something
[13:31] <Darkside> bah
[13:31] <Darkside> it won't be that late
[13:31] <eroomde> it usually is
[13:31] <jonsowman> i think weekends is all off-peak?
[13:31] <eroomde> yeah it should be
[13:31] <Darkside> hmm ok
[13:31] <jonsowman> pretty sure it is on local trains around here
[13:31] <Darkside> ill look it up
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[13:32] <Darkside> i think its an off-peak train
[13:33] <Darkside> if i can get an off-peak day return that'd be best
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[13:33] <Laurenceb> train proces suck
[13:33] <eroomde> wow
[13:33] <eroomde> i was just looking for IAR system's base in the UK
[13:34] <eroomde> you know, the embedded arm people
[13:34] <eroomde> their office is in the same building us ours
[13:34] <eroomde> what are the chances!?
[13:34] <Randomskk> haha, nice
[13:34] <Randomskk> probably better odds than you'd expect :P
[13:35] <eroomde> Darkside: ok, give me an email with plans by middayish tomorrow
[13:36] <eroomde> don't rely on irc
[13:36] <eroomde> eddymoore at gmail
[13:36] <Darkside> ok it looks like nigel isnt going to make it on saturday
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[13:46] <Darkside> eroomde: still there?
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[14:10] <fsphil> nuts, so only one launch this weekend
[14:11] <Darkside> yeah
[14:11] <Darkside> should be a good one tho, i hope
[14:11] <Darkside> a very loooooong one though
[14:13] <daveake> Has anyone used the SCP1000 pressure sensor? I did and got some very strange readings from it.
[14:13] <daveake> I just used some code that I found on the web, so I'm taking a look at that now to see if there's a bug.
[14:13] <Darkside> i use the BMP085s
[14:13] <earthshine> o/
[14:13] <Randomskk> I had an SCP1000 once and I think I got it working
[14:13] <Randomskk> but that was a long time ago and I don't know that I have the code around
[14:13] <earthshine> They are really easy to use
[14:14] <earthshine> I've got code for those
[14:14] <Randomskk> https://github.com/adamgreig/Robot4/blob/master/SensorTest/scp1000.c
[14:14] <Randomskk> hey look at that
[14:14] <Laurenceb> the measurement specialities sensor is good
[14:14] <daveake> The code is simple enough. It gets a byte and a word from 2 registers, then puts them together to get a 19-bit int.
[14:15] <daveake> Cheers Randomskk, I'll read and compare now :)
[14:15] <Randomskk> it's written for an stm32
[14:15] <Randomskk> so like, some bits will be weird
[14:15] <daveake> No worries :)
[14:16] <daveake> lol
[14:16] <daveake> ... "Startup failed. Die painfully."
[14:17] <WillDuckworth> hey daveake - i've got that going with an arduino. if it's a 5v uno or similar then you'll need to voltage divide the pins
[14:17] <Randomskk> did I write that
[14:17] <Randomskk> haha man
[14:17] <Randomskk> "September 27, 2009"
[14:18] <Randomskk> :|
[14:19] <daveake> WillDuckworth: Yeah, I did that. It does work at ground level giving (something close to) the correct pressure
[14:19] <daveake> I was wondering if it got the bits joined together wrong. I'll check the datasheet
[14:19] <WillDuckworth> cool, as you can get the temp from it too
[14:19] <WillDuckworth> if using the sparkfun
[14:20] <WillDuckworth> breakout
[14:20] <daveake> Yes, that saves half a gram for a DS1820 :)
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[14:35] <daveake> Randomskk: Well, after a quick check, that code and the stuff I used are both sending the same bytes to the SCP1000, and doing the same thing with the results.
[14:35] <daveake> Nothing obviously wrong then :(
[14:36] <Randomskk> what's the manifesting problem/
[14:36] <Darkside> hmm thats whas i should do
[14:36] <Darkside> on the car trip to cambridge, have my payload running
[14:37] <Darkside> and check the data it sends out for any anomalies
[14:37] <Darkside> as i'll cross the meridian
[14:38] <daveake> I'll check the logs for a pattern, but basically the readings jumped around during the flight, though they were stable on the ground.
[14:39] <daveake> I haven't looked to see what height/pressure they started playing up at, so I'll do that first.
[14:39] <daveake> May well be blindingly obvious when I do ....
[14:40] <eroomde> gold phoenix is really damn good
[14:40] <Randomskk> yea.
[14:40] <Randomskk> well - still more expensive than seeed for small run
[14:40] <Randomskk> runs*
[14:40] <Randomskk> which is most of my pcbs
[14:42] <eroomde> i'm getting 4 x 175 x 125mm pcbs, 2 layer, with extra thick copper, for £90
[14:42] <Randomskk> that's pretty decent.
[14:46] <Zuph> <3 Gold Phoenix
[14:48] <NigelMoby> How long do seeed normally take?
[14:48] <Laurenceb> 2.5weeks for me
[14:48] <NigelMoby> Ah that's not to bad.
[14:49] <Darkside> i got stuff faster than that, but i used the fast shipping option
[14:49] <Darkside> i was still nfortunate enough to order when there was a chinese holiday
[14:49] <Darkside> so it took about a week longer than it should have, but i still got it in 2 weeks
[14:49] <NigelMoby> Crazy guy those shipping prices were mental
[14:49] <Darkside> wasnt so much to me
[14:49] <Darkside> i think it was about $30 to australia
[14:50] <NigelMoby> Oh of course ure a bit closer in aus
[14:50] <Darkside> yep
[14:50] <Darkside> anyway, sucks that you can't come this weekend NigelMoby :(
[14:50] <Darkside> be sure to track the balloon, if you can
[14:51] <Laurenceb> we need someone in Hull :P
[14:51] <NigelMoby> I'm pretty pissed off ds
[14:51] <Darkside> i hope Dutch-Mill tracks it
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[14:51] <Darkside> NigelMoby: i bet
[14:51] <NigelMoby> Timbobel?
[14:52] <NigelMoby> Is he about lately?
[14:55] <fsphil> dutch-mill isn't tim
[14:55] <NigelMoby> Ohh
[14:56] <fsphil> or might be an alter-ego :)
[14:56] <NigelMoby> Lol
[14:56] <NigelMoby> Read ure pm Phil :p
[14:58] <daveake> Upu - Just took a look at my GPS code. The E/W error is pretty damn obvious!
[14:58] <daveake> Excuse me while I give myself a slap ... :)
[14:58] <NigelMoby> U using the inventek Dave?
[14:59] <daveake> Nope. Jupiter 11
[14:59] <NigelMoby> Ahh
[15:00] <daveake> Because of the Arduino float issue, I grabbed the bits before and after the dp as separate ints. Then I do "Minutes = -Minutes" if it sees the "W" for West. That's a bit sub-optimal for Minutes=0
[15:01] <daveake> Hence it bounced from Berks to Kent in one go
[15:02] <NigelMoby> Lol oops
[15:02] <daveake> Oops indeed!
[15:04] <Elwell> set of probes and cat in some madeup NMEA stream from serial to the GPS for testing?
[15:04] <fsphil> yea you need to do the negative test on the original float
[15:05] <daveake> Indeed
[15:06] <WillDuckworth> does anyone else find tinygps is slow at picking up the altitude?
[15:06] <NigelMoby> Heh Yup, I'm norm -47m for an hour
[15:07] <WillDuckworth> good - glad it's not just me!
[15:08] <fsphil> tinygps should be as quick as the gps unit feeding it
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[15:08] <fsphil> if not it's a bug :)
[15:08] <WillDuckworth> yeah - it gets location and time etc, but alt takes a good few sentences before it starts giving reasonable numbers...
[15:09] <WillDuckworth> that's tested using the sample code on 2 different aurduino's and 2 different GPS units
[15:09] <WillDuckworth> arduino fun
[15:10] <WillDuckworth> just building a checklist and including 'hold times' a la space shuttle ;)
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[15:13] <Upu> nice bug daveake :)
[15:13] <NigelMoby> Ello upu
[15:14] <daveake> A new variation on an old standard? ;)
[15:18] <fsphil> an old classic that one :)
[15:19] <daveake> :)
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[15:19] <W0OTM-M> Howdy
[15:20] <Upu> Hey Marshall
[15:20] <Upu> great video
[15:20] <Upu> did that come down automously ?
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[15:23] <SamSIlver_> this is not going away http://www.gizmag.com/bloon-space-balloon/19553/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=29238865f6-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
[15:24] <Upu> not enough pink gaffer tape
[15:24] <SamSIlver_> lol
[15:25] <SamSIlver_> had anymore bets latley Upu ?
[15:26] <eroomde> huzzah
[15:26] <eroomde> pcb order shipped
[15:26] <Randomskk> cool
[15:27] <eroomde> well, the order is ordered
[15:27] <eroomde> that was a bit missions
[15:27] <eroomde> lots of funcky analogue electronics
[15:32] <W0OTM-M> Upu
[15:32] <W0OTM-M> Upu: no not that flight. We are still stress testing, tuning weight & balance, ect
[15:32] <W0OTM-M> brb
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[15:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/news/684
[15:36] <Laurenceb> interesting
[15:36] <m1x10> I go for basket!
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[15:37] <Laurenceb> haha like the launch
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[15:48] <Laurenceb> 1uA is impressiveish, but stm32 can go to 2ua and msp430 to 0.5 with RTC
[15:51] <eroomde> that is impressive
[15:51] <Laurenceb> several years battery :P
[15:52] <Laurenceb> stm32 you can only [reserve a bit of the ram tho
[15:52] <eroomde> i hope the payload would turn up before then
[15:53] <Laurenceb> bbl
[15:53] <eroomde> one of the things sat builders do for emegencies and low power survival mode is, in combination with star grounding for different subsystems, a mosfet to the v+ area of each susbsystem too
[15:53] <eroomde> so you can completely power down subsystems if necessary
[15:53] <eroomde> not so useful for a balloon flight but potentially useful for a floater
[15:54] <eroomde> switch of crap to divert power to a pwm heater, say, for surviving cold soaks
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> Or if a module develops a short
[15:56] <eroomde> indeed
[15:56] <eroomde> you could put current sense into each subsystem too
[15:56] <eroomde> to really show off
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[16:18] <eroomde> but for-ex it'd maybe be an idea to issue a gps shutdown command after landing when you're searching
[16:18] <eroomde> that will save a whole bunch of power
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[16:40] <eroomde> test
[16:40] <eroomde> wow odd
[16:41] <eroomde> osx is totally convinced i don't have an internet connection
[16:41] <eroomde> and yet observse
[16:41] <NigeyS> lol
[16:41] <eroomde> observe*
[16:41] <eroomde> here i am through an ssh connection
[16:41] <NigeyS> you are not here, it's all in the mind Ed :P
[16:42] <eroomde> potentially that too
[16:42] <eroomde> will try a reset
[16:42] <eroomde> bbiab
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/qjK34.gif sort-of-worksafe-in-theory-but-in-practice-probably-not
[16:47] <eroomde> much better
[16:47] <eroomde> thanks SpeedEvil
[16:47] <eroomde> any other hab insights to share?
[16:48] <Upu> lol
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> Sorry, it amused me.
[16:48] <NigeyS> lol
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> I need to do some numerical sims of my flapping wing idea.
[16:49] <eroomde> :)
[16:49] <eroomde> that sounds like PhD fluids
[16:49] <Upu> SpeedEvil you just got Eroompwnd
[16:50] <eroomde> eroompa loompa loppedy doo / I've got another pwnage for you
[16:50] <jonsowman> :\
[16:50] <Upu> Anyone know if jcoxon is on hols ?
[16:50] <eroomde> eroompa loompa loopedy dee / if you are wise you'll launch habs with helium
[16:50] <eroomde> Upu: i think he's on nights
[16:50] <Upu> ah ok
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Something like that.
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: It's probably simple enough that I can cheat
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Fortunately, it's a damn near ideal case.
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: A rigid wing, of constant section.
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> With negligable other structure. In principle I should be able to do it from simple aerofoil data.
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> Of course - working out how it turns gets lots nastier
[16:55] <eroomde> ah ok rigid wing
[16:55] <Darkside> ok
[16:55] <Darkside> so did anyone see my tweet?
[16:56] <Darkside> things you regularly buy when on holiday in the UK: Nylon cord, gaffer tape, hot glue gun.
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> For grossly irrigid structures like parachutes - no way I'm even going to _try_ simulating the dynamics. :)
[16:57] <eroomde> no tweet
[16:57] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: well, that's what my company do
[16:57] <Darkside> eroomde: i went out and bought a hot glue gun
[16:57] <eroomde> fluid structure interaction
[16:57] <Darkside> i'm going to finisn the paylod tonight, bar the gps
[16:58] <eroomde> it's exceptionally tough
[16:58] <eroomde> Darkside: cool
[16:58] <eroomde> looking forward to it
[16:58] <Darkside> GPS is in the UK, should arrive tomorrow morning
[16:59] <NigeyS> you did an overnight from sparkfun Darkside ?
[16:59] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: And in 10 years, it's going to be in games to make cloth ripple right.
[16:59] <Darkside> NigeyS: pretty much
[17:00] <NigeyS> ouch
[17:00] <SpeedEvil> And hopefully mars!
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/08/18/1345223/Company-Wants-You-to-Visit-Near-Space-In-Their-Bloon
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[17:07] <eroomde> expensive
[17:08] <eroomde> but fun i guess
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[17:08] <Hiena> ' evening!
[17:08] <Darkside> anyone care if i clear the tracker?
[17:08] <NigeyS> ello Hiena
[17:09] <eroomde> anyone spent any appreciable amount of time in tokyo?
[17:09] <NigeyS> m8 of mine lives there...
[17:10] <Hiena> Well, well, well... I could hear the screams from the university's financial department. Today filed the pice request for the helium.
[17:10] <eroomde> i want to visit, just wondering where to go
[17:10] <Hiena> eroomde: I spent only a day there.
[17:10] <eroomde> not sure what it's like
[17:11] <Hiena> eroomde: Akihabara.
[17:11] <eroomde> i'm assuming it's somewhere between 'You Only Live Twice' and 'Enter the Void'
[17:11] <Hiena> Mekka of the geeks.
[17:13] <Hiena> Tons of electronic gadgets, strong wifi connection, and no-car saturdays.
[17:14] <Randomskk> eroomde: I spent a week or two there
[17:14] <eroomde> i would probably not take a laptop
[17:14] <eroomde> or anything electronic if poss
[17:14] <Randomskk> I bought a laptop there, hah
[17:14] <eroomde> i quite want to be off the grid when i go on holiday
[17:14] <eroomde> just put my sim in a crappy phone for emergencies
[17:14] <Randomskk> I would suggest getting a JR pass and spending some time outside tokyo then
[17:15] <eroomde> jr?
[17:15] <Randomskk> japan rail
[17:15] <Randomskk> the JR pass is only available outside the country, basically it gives you free travel on all trains
[17:15] <Randomskk> including bullet trains
[17:15] <Randomskk> with a very few exceptions
[17:15] <Darkside> that sounds cool
[17:15] <Randomskk> super amazing.
[17:16] <eroomde> very cool
[17:16] <Randomskk> tokyo is one of my favourite cities, it was so amazing, but all of japan was really really nice, and the further out from the tokyo you got the less of a techy holiday it became, really
[17:16] <Darkside> eroomde: want to change the launch info on the CUSF site?
[17:16] <Darkside> or is that you Randomskk
[17:17] <Randomskk> eroomde: we saw festivals in aomori, went to the fish market at 5am in tokyo and had super fresh sushi (omg do this), had koba beef in a skyscraper in tokyo (omg do this)
[17:17] <Randomskk> and like a hundred other super cool things
[17:17] <Randomskk> we went inside a giant buddha and we had green tea at a temple someplace and we climbed some mountains and stuff
[17:17] <Hiena> I could advise Nagano area. Quite rural and sleepy.
[17:17] <Randomskk> basically japan was my favourite holiday and I am going back there in 2013
[17:17] <NigeyS> Darkside, any way to export a image of the pcb ?
[17:18] <Darkside> NigeyS: printscreen?
[17:18] <Darkside> or you can try and make an outjob
[17:18] <NigeyS> ahh oki, ill have a fiddle
[17:18] <Randomskk> hmmm I never uploaded all my japan photos to flickr, it was taking too long
[17:18] <Randomskk> should really have done that at uni
[17:18] <Randomskk> eroomde: omg the food <3
[17:19] <eroomde> that's really what i'm going for :)
[17:20] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/u/img_5021.jpg
[17:20] <Randomskk> that was literally the best thing I've ever eaten
[17:21] <Hiena> Yup. The food is quite good, but not so spicy
[17:21] <eroomde> wow
[17:21] <Randomskk> it cost about £40 for that plate I think? I can't remember
[17:21] <eroomde> Randomskk: what is your trip length plan?
[17:21] <Randomskk> I DIDN'T CARE :O
[17:21] <Randomskk> eroomde: for 2013?
[17:21] <eroomde> yeah
[17:21] <Randomskk> it's kinda extravagant
[17:21] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/atw/
[17:21] <Randomskk> https://randomskk.net/atw13
[17:21] <Randomskk> (both)
[17:22] <Randomskk> but like, probably another 3 weeks in japan
[17:22] <eroomde> are you going with anyone?
[17:22] <Randomskk> probably
[17:22] <Randomskk> a good few people are keen on doing the mongol rally (driving to mongolia)
[17:22] <Randomskk> a fair few are keen on japan
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[17:22] <Randomskk> somewhat fewer on a two week boat trip over the pacific followed by slumming it around the USA and Canada
[17:23] <Randomskk> two others still interested by the time it's a two week cargo boat back over the atlantic
[17:23] <eroomde> i'd be keen!
[17:23] <Randomskk> haha you'd be quite welcome to come along, I think it's going to be quite an eclectic mix :P jonsowman is hopefully coming for some of it too
[17:24] <eroomde> the rally sounds awesome
[17:24] <eroomde> as does japan
[17:24] <eroomde> 2013 could be busy for me tho (as you know from offline discussions) but I could probably do a few weeks all at once
[17:25] <Randomskk> yea, it would equally be easy to like come along for parts and then fly in/out
[17:25] <Randomskk> cheaper, too >_>
[17:25] <eroomde> I will be 25 by 2013
[17:25] <eroomde> re: pahse 6 car hiring
[17:25] <Randomskk> that is interesting
[17:25] <Randomskk> if one person hires a car, I wonder if others can drive it.
[17:26] <eroomde> the us greyhounds are notoriously dire
[17:26] <Randomskk> yea, so dire.
[17:26] <Randomskk> I have to dash, meeting someone in london so gotta catch a train, but chat to you about this later
[17:26] <eroomde> like as bad as the horror stories of 24hr standing coach jounreys in vietnam
[17:26] <eroomde> ok cool
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[17:31] <eroomde> Upu: there you go ^
[17:31] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:31] <Upu> ah
[17:31] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[17:31] <DanielRichman> hi jcoxon
[17:31] <Upu> still working nights ?
[17:32] <jcoxon> Upu, I'm on days
[17:32] <jcoxon> but on nights on sat till tues
[17:32] <Upu> cool got a few mins ?
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[17:32] <jcoxon> sure
[17:33] <Upu> pm
[17:33] <Darkside> ok tracker ready for launch on the weekend
[17:34] <DanielRichman> jcoxon: and uh after you're done, fancy talking about dl-fldigi :P?
[17:34] <jcoxon> i can multitask
[17:34] <DanielRichman> :O had an "operation" recently?
[17:34] <DanielRichman> anyway so
[17:35] <DanielRichman> https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi/tree/master/src/habitat <--
[17:36] <DanielRichman> this is a draft at adding habitat uploading by using C-Python Embedding
[17:36] <jcoxon> oh right
[17:36] <jcoxon> can't we do it in pure C++?
[17:36] <DanielRichman> well that's what I was going to talk about
[17:36] <DanielRichman> there are advantages and disadvantages.
[17:37] <DanielRichman> IMO it's easier to embed python but the C++ might not turn out bad. I think that the Python embeddage could come in useful later, it means that we don't have to have several implementations of the same things and can import other parts of habtiat like the parser for local dl-fldigi super easily
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[17:37] <DanielRichman> however
[17:37] <DanielRichman> python is big and extra work to build
[17:38] <DanielRichman> (well, for windows users it's a pain. On mac/linux? -lpython2.6/2.7; job done and it just magically all works)
[17:38] <DanielRichman> It's certainly possible, but libpython.so is larger than the whole of the current dl fldigi installer
[17:38] <DanielRichman> (just for comparison)
[17:39] <DanielRichman> So I was gonna ask for other opinions before deciding to proceed with embedded python or rewriting in C++
[17:39] <DanielRichman> I believe fsphil is for the C++
[17:40] <jcoxon> i reckon i'm for C++ as well
[17:40] <DanielRichman> okay
[17:41] <jcoxon> dependencies have always been an issue
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[17:42] <DanielRichman> it'd be trading CURL for Python
[17:42] <DanielRichman> but yeah
[17:42] <DanielRichman> that's cool
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[17:42] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[17:42] <jcoxon> i do hate curl
[17:43] <DanielRichman> unless the ssdv stuff uses curl in which case ... :-(
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[17:43] <DanielRichman> it'd be cool to have ssdv in habitat eventually though
[17:44] <DanielRichman> yeah ssdv_rx.cxx uses curl
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[17:49] <Darkside> ok, my antenna is now fairly well secured to my box now
[17:49] <NigeyS> nicey
[17:49] <NigeyS> do you have the prediction link there Darkside ?
[17:49] <Darkside> i'm glad this hot glue donw does th elow melt stuff
[17:49] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=aab9c50035c550aaccff6d20da9253ae3dda4986
[17:50] <NigeyS> splashdown :|
[17:50] <Darkside> yup
[17:50] <Darkside> i'm not getting this one back
[17:50] <NigeyS> dam, might change by sat morning though
[17:50] <Darkside> doubt it
[17:51] <NigeyS> wow ure doing a 2.5 ascent ..
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[17:53] <Upu> that would almost trigger my float detection and blow the pyro :)
[17:53] <NigeyS> :o
[17:54] <Upu> if jcoxon comes back I've just gone afk
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[17:54] <NigeyS> lol
[17:55] <NigeyS> hows that for timing
[18:00] <Upu> wb jcoxon
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[18:01] <Hiena> Well, that was fast. Got the mail from the uni. The helium tank canceled. Hafta phone the green guys.
[18:03] <Darkside> hey Dutch-Mill!
[18:03] <Darkside> we'll need your help on saturday!
[18:03] <Dutch-Mill> hi
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[18:05] <Dutch-Mill> found a nice ft817 arduino lib for remoting the set
[18:06] <Dutch-Mill> whats up saturday btw
[18:07] <Upu> launch I think
[18:07] <Upu> I might not be here again
[18:07] <Darkside> yes, launch from CUSF
[18:07] <Darkside> i'm flying mininut
[18:08] <Dutch-Mill> whats the fl level
[18:09] <Darkside> 40km if we get lucky
[18:09] <Darkside> we're targeting 40km anyway
[18:10] <eroomde> i sort of hope it floats
[18:10] <eroomde> i hope it doesn't just so an aussie gets the uk altitude record
[18:10] <eroomde> but i hope it floats for the fascinating pressure/alt data
[18:11] <LazyLeopard> When's launch?
[18:11] <Dutch-Mill> yee go for it mate ;-)
[18:11] <Upu> hwoyee balloon ?
[18:11] <Darkside> eroomde: hahaha
[18:11] <Darkside> yes upu
[18:12] <daveake> It's got even more chance of floating at 36km than floating in the North Sea :)
[18:12] <Darkside> well its going in the north sea
[18:12] <Darkside> i know that
[18:13] <daveake> Cutdown then?
[18:13] <Upu> yeah they seem to hit a glass ceiling @ 36km
[18:13] <Upu> good luck with it anyway very interested in what you get with the slow ascent rate
[18:14] <Upu> have my own theory to go higher with those you need a faster ascent but lets see what happens :)
[18:15] <Darkside> eroomde: approx 140g
[18:15] <daveake> I was thinking that. Then vent to stop it bursting. Been tried though I was told.
[18:15] <Darkside> all i haave here is luggage scales
[18:15] <Upu> ok afk
[18:16] <daveake> I've been weighing the parts for Buzz1 with 0.01g resolution scales (no, not drug-dealing ones!)
[18:16] <daveake> The kitchen scales read to 1g but sometimes show 0g even with 3g on them
[18:17] <daveake> Darkside what size balloon?
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[18:19] <Hiena> Oh, got an idea. How about connect two balloon with flexible tubing. The bottom one would be packed in a string release net. After leaving the 20km mark, a servo could pull the release string which would allow the second balloon to inflate and release the pressure from the first one.
[18:19] <Darkside> daveake: 1.6kg
[18:20] <daveake> Darkside Same as mine then, and your payload is the same weight pretty much, so I shall regard this as a test flight for my attempt ;)
[18:20] <Upu> I'm so interested in this sitting on 2 x 1.6kg balloons here :)
[18:21] <daveake> What does sitting on them do to their burst height? ;)
[18:22] <BrainDamage> try the manifacturer's FAQ under the section "sexual usage"
[18:22] <eroomde> Hiena: we have done similar but not
[18:22] <daveake> They think of everything ...
[18:22] <eroomde> we had done a few dual ballon flights one quite inflated with lots of free lift
[18:22] <eroomde> the other one only just positive lift on the payload
[18:23] <eroomde> we get to 28km and release the viscious one
[18:23] <eroomde> and let the rest rise up very slowly on the underinflated one
[18:23] <daveake> That was my plan too
[18:23] <daveake> Releasing soon before the first balloon bursts
[18:35] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011-08-18-19.18.01.jpg
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[18:35] <W0OTM-M> howdy
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[18:37] <Darkside> eeyup
[18:39] <Darkside> eroomde: Randomskk can you change the CUSF page to reflect the name of the launch?
[18:39] <Darkside> Horus 15.5 :-)
[18:40] <doughecka> Hrm, crazy thought, but is it possible to build a payload that glides back home? Self recovering payload. Launch balloon, when balloon pops cut away and aim for home.
[18:40] <Darkside> the us guys are trying for that
[18:40] <Darkside> it'll b e a pain in the ass to do
[18:41] <doughecka> interesting...
[18:43] <Dan-K2VOL> doughecka, it's possible, been done, it just adds an RC airplane with an autopilot to the to-do list
[18:44] <Dan-K2VOL> W0OTM iHAB is doing one this year
[18:44] <doughecka> huh. that would be fun to watch
[18:44] <Dan-K2VOL> there's one out of australia back in 2005 that was very advanced, but hasn't been updated in years
[18:46] <Darkside> there was one out of australia>?
[18:46] <Darkside> >_>
[18:46] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah I'll try to look it up
[18:47] <Darkside> prolly from woomera
[18:47] <doughecka> I was thinking more along the lines of a 'rocket' shaped payload, cut itself free and plummet straight towards the 'target'. Pop a chute at a target altitude. Be more simpler than a full RC plane, and the loft time would be minimal, keeping the power requirements of the entire flight low.
[18:47] <Hiena> doughecka: you need at least 10:1 L/D to hit the start place.
[18:48] <doughecka> as opposed to an RC glider slowly circling over the target for hours as it falls in altitude
[18:48] <doughecka> maybe I'm thinking way too optimistically.
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL> can't find it, it was a small group/small company effort to provide science payload retrieval, not involved with governments research though
[18:49] <Hiena> Also check the lifting bodies. With a weak wind launch the 4:1 L/D would be enough.
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[18:50] <doughecka> so original idea not so original :P spiffy, I'll have to google up some more info.
[18:51] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd like to see an ascending balloon shaped like a vertical blimp adjust its course to intercept a stationkeeping high altitude airship for resupply
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[19:32] <fsphil> Randomskk, I'm re-writing my ssdv web stuff for couchdb and possibly python
[19:33] <fsphil> ^^ actually DanielRichman :)
[19:33] <fsphil> sorry Randomskk :)
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[19:36] <DanielRichman> fsphil: that's awesome. are you writing it as a separate couchdb thing or with the intention of adding it as a habitat parser module and integrating with the habitat web ui?
[19:36] <fsphil> DanielRichman, for habitat - I'll be using the same document style
[19:37] <fsphil> for the individual packets anyway, not sure how to store the images
[19:37] <DanielRichman> cool
[19:37] <DanielRichman> Well when we were desigining it SSDV had occured so I thought a little about it
[19:37] <DanielRichman> when you decode a packet, it's a square part of the image, right?
[19:37] <fsphil> it could contain many squares
[19:38] <DanielRichman> OK. can you decode each square reliably in isolation? does that square of the image change in any way with the addition of other packets?
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[19:38] <eroomde> Darkside: which page?
[19:38] <fsphil> yes, an mcu (16x16 block) may sit between a packet boundary
[19:39] <DanielRichman> I see. So... hmm,
[19:39] <DanielRichman> ok maybe - Randomskk might have other/better ideas, but
[19:39] <DanielRichman> ParserModules accpet configuration and one string/packet as uploaded by a listener/listeners and produce one json object which is then stored by the surrounding parser code int he database
[19:39] <DanielRichman> which doesn't lend it to some sort of multi-packet thing
[19:39] <DanielRichman> so
[19:39] <fsphil> at the moment I think it just needs to re-run the decoder on all the packets each time it gets a new one
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[19:40] <fsphil> yea, I had fun setting up the current one to properly link each packet
[19:40] <DanielRichman> Perhaps the object emitted by the parser could contain the raw data, and some sort of identifier that allows packets belonging to the same image to be identified (I don't know how you've done this), and then a second server (Packet combining server?) separate from the parser itself could pick them up and update a document that contains the image itself
[19:41] <DanielRichman> that allows you to maintain/use the current ParserModule design, and combine the images
[19:41] <fsphil> each image has an ID in the packet header, incremented by one
[19:41] <fsphil> it's only 8-bit, but at the speed it works at I didn't think this would be a problem
[19:41] <DanielRichman> sorry, instead of packet combining server I shoudl have said packet combining daemon (habtiat is couchdb surrouded by listeners and a collection of daemons that modify the documents they upload)
[19:42] <fsphil> the bit that modifies the packet could append the data to another image document
[19:42] <DanielRichman> the reason I didn't suggest that is that ParserModules accept data in and produce json objects out without accessing the database themselves, since that's the Parser (read parser module manager)'s job
[19:43] <fsphil> aah yes
[19:46] <fsphil> the parsermodule runs in couchdb itself?
[19:46] <fsphil> no that's silly
[19:46] <DanielRichman> nah, it runs as an external python daemon
[19:46] <DanielRichman> technically it couuld :P
[19:46] <DanielRichman> but
[19:46] <DanielRichman> it would be a bit silly
[19:47] <DanielRichman> running as an external daemon it doesn't have to reprocess the doc every time the list of receivers gets updated; as a view it would.
[19:47] <DanielRichman> but yeah; Randomskk wrote UKHASParser which currently is the only ParserModule
[19:47] <fsphil> the ssdv thing would be similar, a repeat packet shouldn't update anything but the receiver list
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[19:48] <DanielRichman> yep
[19:48] <Darkside> submission to hackaday made...
[19:48] <Darkside> :P
[19:48] <Darkside> big blog post: http://rfhead.net/?p=356
[19:49] <DanielRichman> so yeah you're pretty much free to do what you like; It's easiest to add a ParserModule because you just put it on the python path and add it to the config file, and that's job done. I think SSDV will require a parsermodule and a packet-combining daemon to produce the actual images; though I guess that's just how I'd do it; it's your choice
[19:49] <fsphil> that's more or less what I'm thinking it will be
[19:50] <DanielRichman> perhaps the concept of a packet-combining-daemon could be part of habtiat and then modules plug into that the same way parsermodules plug into the parser, and ssdv would be a parsermodule adn a packetcombiner (think map, reduce?)
[19:50] <DanielRichman> awesome
[19:51] <fsphil> I'll throw together a parsermodule at least
[19:52] <fsphil> I'll be pleased to get that far considering my weak python skillz
[19:52] <fsphil> Darkside, love the box
[19:52] <Darkside> :P
[19:53] <fsphil> cable going straight to antenna makes me nervous :) but then it's a suicide mission
[19:53] <Darkside> eh?
[19:53] <Darkside> why?
[19:53] <Darkside> the antenna is single core wire, it's going to bend before that bit of semi-rigid coax does
[19:53] <fsphil> my first flight, the payload landed on the antenna - cable got pushed up and snapped the board in two
[19:54] <DanielRichman> fsphil: you didn't use enough hot melt glue :P
[19:54] <fsphil> aah just single core, this was coax
[19:54] <Darkside> mm
[19:54] <fsphil> I made sure to put a little loop in on the last two -- though it's yet to be tested (lost, tree)
[19:54] <Darkside> anyway, here's hoping i get on hackaday :P
[19:55] <Darkside> i figure its about time we got a project horus flight on hackaday
[20:03] <daveake> I made a sort of retracting antenna that could slide back into the box when it hit the ground.
[20:03] <daveake> In practice, it hit sideways and just got bent to 45 degrees!
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[20:10] <Dan-K2VOL> heh yeah nothing behaves as planned, which is why testing and test flights are so handy
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[20:35] <Laurenceb_> http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/18/technology/hp_pc_spinoff/
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> free/cheap stuff coming very soon
[20:38] Nick change: Laurenceb_ -> the_fbi
[20:39] Nick change: the_fbi -> Laurenceb_
[20:39] <NigeyS> Despite its recent struggles, HP still sells more PCs than any other vendor
[20:39] <NigeyS> thats odd
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[20:47] <jiffe> hmm, the jpole antenna I got has a SWR somewhere above 65, its off the charts on my meter
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> I don't have good luck with Jpoles on balloons, they change SWR wildly when they bend
[20:50] <jiffe> Dan-K2VOL: what kind of antennas do you use?
[20:51] <DanielRichman> fsphil: so Randomskk reckons it'll be easier if we modify the Parser (manager) in some way to allow ParserModules to request packet history by some means.
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> well, for VHF 2m to ground just a commercial flexible whip on the payload
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> for VHF 2m to satellite, we've been working on an 80gram quad helix
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> for the payload
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> rather big, but lightweight
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[21:19] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: that's what I was saying
[21:19] <Randomskk> but we don't need to modify
[21:19] <Randomskk> 20:38:03 Randomskk> parsermodules have access to couch
[21:20] <DanielRichman> aha
[21:20] <DanielRichman> I didn't realise
[21:20] <DanielRichman> OK
[21:20] <Randomskk> so it's really easy
[21:20] <Randomskk> I think we do it so:
[21:20] <Randomskk> each new ssdv packet has the ssdv parser module being called
[21:20] <Randomskk> the parser module determines the image ID (possibly making it unique via flight ID + image sequence number)
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[21:21] <Randomskk> then looks up a view to get all the packets from the same image
[21:21] <Randomskk> then outputs into this telemetry document (i.e. returns to the parser) the image ID (for later lookup via that view) and the current generation of the image
[21:21] <Randomskk> then each new packet will result in a better-and-better image
[21:21] <Randomskk> if we have any merge conflicts, just repeat the above steps to resolve - it'l generate the best possible image each time
[21:21] <Randomskk> emit something that says how many packets went into making this image
[21:22] <Randomskk> and we can then view on that and sort to get the most up to date render for each image
[21:22] <Randomskk> which can go to JS on the frontend
[21:22] <Randomskk> then use html embedded images to render them direct from couch
[21:22] <fsphil-laptop> that's not far of what I do now
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[21:23] <fsphil-laptop> only with mysql and php ;)
[21:23] <Randomskk> hopefully that will make it easy to do, then ;)
[21:24] <fsphil-laptop> when adding a packet, it looks for any older packet with the same image ID and flight ID
[21:24] <fsphil-laptop> if it finds one, it copies it's unique image ID (my terminology is confusing here)
[21:24] <fsphil-laptop> if not, it makes a new one
[21:25] <Randomskk> okay so I think this differs slightly in that it won't be making new images per se
[21:25] <Randomskk> so much as each time it gets a new packet, it finds all the old packets, uses that to generate image data which it stores with this most recent packet
[21:25] <Randomskk> old packets will have their old image data kept with them
[21:25] <fsphil-laptop> aah gotcha
[21:25] <Randomskk> then the web interface finds the image that was generated with the highest number of packets
[21:25] <Randomskk> this way each time it is called with a new piece of image data, we end up with an image which can be viewed, in I think the simplest possible fashion
[21:26] <Randomskk> plus if it never finishes or misses packets, or packets come in later, this should handle that nicely
[21:26] <Randomskk> also if we later replicate the database and the other database has packets we didn't get, repeating exactly the same steps with the new data will result in even better images being generated
[21:26] <Randomskk> so like
[21:26] <Randomskk> but it's time-invariant
[21:26] <Randomskk> if we get packets 1, 2, 3, and 5 (missing 4)
[21:27] <Randomskk> then by packet 5 we've generated an image from four packets (1, 2, 3, 5)
[21:27] <Randomskk> and that's the best we could do
[21:27] <Randomskk> but we later replicate, and now packet 4 comes in
[21:27] <Randomskk> then for packet 4 we generate an image with five packets (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) which will be an even better image
[21:27] <Randomskk> the web front end is always just looking for the image that used the most packets, not the most recent in time
[21:27] <Randomskk> so it will now use the image data associated with packet 4, because it's the best image
[21:28] <fsphil-laptop> that'll always be true yea
[21:28] <Randomskk> also I think that can be done using just a new parsermodule (which is a pluggable interface) and a view on the database, no new daemon
[21:28] <Randomskk> which reduces complexity, resource usage, liklihood of failure, etc
[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> I worry that the 8-bit image ID field is too small
[21:29] <fsphil-laptop> if it's a long flight, or has a fast downlink
[21:30] <Randomskk> yea
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> how do you separate image ID 0x20 from another image with ID 0x20 an hour ago
[21:30] <Randomskk> uhm, we can either solve that server side
[21:30] <Randomskk> as we do have timestamps
[21:30] <Randomskk> or you can upgrade your protocol to 16 bits :P
[21:30] <fsphil-laptop> only delays the problem ;-)
[21:31] <Randomskk> well you say that
[21:31] <Randomskk> but like
[21:31] <Randomskk> it kinda also solves it for all forseeable futures :P
[21:31] <Randomskk> in the same way that 32 bit integers for timestamps is a problem
[21:32] <fsphil-laptop> yea who wants to look through 65,536 images :)
[21:32] <Randomskk> and moving to 64 bit integers for timestamps only delays the problem
[21:32] <Randomskk> but with 32 bit ints the problem goes bang in 2038
[21:32] <Randomskk> with 64 bit ints the problem goes bang in.... a very long time
[21:32] <Randomskk> by "a very long time" I mean 292 billion years: 15:30:08 on Sunday, 4 December 292,277,026,596
[21:33] <Randomskk> ipv4 just ran out, so we moved to 128 bits for IP addresses, this does just delay the problem... but we've already run out of v4, v6 gives us enough addresses for every grain of sand on the planet
[21:34] <fsphil-laptop> making sure it's sunk into my grey matter: a new packet inherits the overall image data of the last matching packet
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> last matching with the highest packet cound
[21:35] <Randomskk> well it could inherit it, I don't know how computationally intensive it is
[21:35] <fsphil-laptop> count*
[21:35] <Randomskk> I was proposing that each new packet regenerates a new image using all previous packets
[21:35] <Randomskk> rather than searching for the previous best and improving on it
[21:35] <Randomskk> it feels a bit more resiliant to things going wrong that way, at fairly low computational cost
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[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> I agree
[21:36] <Randomskk> we're talking images a few hundred pixels across every few minutes on a fairly beefy server, so
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> the decoder is pretty light weight
[21:36] <fsphil-laptop> I mean, the encoder works on an avr at 7mhz :)
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> it doesn't have to do any kind of jpeg encoding
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> really just reassembles the bitstream
[21:37] <fsphil-laptop> and fills in the gaps if there are any
[21:38] <Randomskk> then yea, total non issue
[21:38] <Randomskk> so two things need writing then
[21:39] <Randomskk> the parser module, which will be given new packets (and access to the database) and be expected to return a hash/map/dictionary (whatever you want to call it) containing the newly generated image (and some kind of globally unique image ID, like flight ID + image ID)
[21:39] <Randomskk> and a view for couchdb which returns all the packets for that image ID
[21:40] <Randomskk> eventually required: a second view for couchdb which returns one image per image ID, the one with the highest packet count into generating it
[21:40] <Randomskk> (oh, the parser module will have to return image, ID and also the number of packets that went into generating that image)
[21:40] <Randomskk> the views can be written in python but we don't actually have a python view server running right now, so if you wanted to start somewhere I guess it'd be the parser module (we can fake out getting the packets for the time being)
[21:41] <fsphil-laptop> how good is python at dealing with binary data?
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> probably a silly question to ask here :p
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> there's a lot of bit shifting involved
[21:42] <Randomskk> eh
[21:42] <Randomskk> it can do it
[21:42] <Randomskk> it may or may not be pretty
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:42] <fsphil-laptop> this'll be fun
[21:42] <Randomskk> depends on what's involved exactly - there are libraries for jpeg stuff
[21:42] <Randomskk> but it may not be relevant
[21:43] <fsphil-laptop> not really
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> the CRC stuff is already there, it uses a 16-bit checksum
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> the reed-solomon bits can be ignored at this point
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> the client handles that
[21:44] <fsphil-laptop> if the checksum fails, reject it
[21:44] <Randomskk> crc16 is already implemented, yea
[21:45] <Randomskk> probably best to not rely on the client too much but for now that's fine
[21:45] <Randomskk> eventually it would be nice if anyone could upload data direct from the radio
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[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
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[22:27] <fsphil-laptop> is "'%04X' % n" a reliable way of converting integer n to hex string in python?
[22:27] <Randomskk> not really
[22:27] <Randomskk> I would just
[22:27] <Randomskk> hex(n)
[22:27] <fsphil-laptop> k
[22:28] <Randomskk> one other comment on your method though - using % in python is now slightly deprecated, the preferred method is to use .format on a string
[22:28] <Randomskk> it's somewhat more powerful and less obscure than printf-style format specifies
[22:28] <Randomskk> specifiers*
[22:28] <Randomskk> bear in mind hex(n) will prepend 0x
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> spotted that
[22:29] <Randomskk> (while bin() will prepend 0b and oct() will prepend 0)
[22:29] <Randomskk> so you can either do something like hex(n)[2:]
[22:29] <fsphil-laptop> I'm converting a 16-bit integer to a four digit hex string
[22:29] <Randomskk> what for?
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> the crc16 function returns a string
[22:30] <Randomskk> which crc16 function?
[22:30] <fsphil-laptop> checksums.crc16_ccitt
[22:30] <Randomskk> oh okay, right
[22:30] <Randomskk> uhm
[22:30] <Randomskk> maybe turn the string into an int
[22:31] <Randomskk> and compare that
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> better
[22:31] <Randomskk> int('c', 16)
[22:31] <Randomskk> int('ABCD', 16)
[22:31] <Randomskk> etc
[22:31] <fsphil-laptop> I like that I can try these in the console
[22:32] <DanielRichman> btw fsphil: you might want to check out the python 'struct' module; has some useful stuff for binary data (if youhaven't found it already)
[22:32] <Randomskk> the console is excellent. you might also be interested in ipython, which is a slightly beefed up console, especially if you can get qtconsole working, which then does live syntax highlighting, indenting, inputting multiple grouped lines so you can press up and edit one line in the group, other good stuff
[22:32] <Randomskk> can be a pain to get ipython qtconsole working though, it's very new
[22:33] <Randomskk> also brings up docs as you type functions and does autocomplete o f all loaded modules and builtins
[22:33] <Randomskk> (btw, #habhub might be a better place for habitat related discussions)
[22:34] <fsphil-laptop> DanielRichman, yea I've discovered struct.unpack
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[22:50] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Lunar_Lander
[22:50] <natrium42> yo dan
[22:52] <NigelMoby> It's the night owls :)
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[22:53] <fsphil-laptop> woot
[22:53] <natrium42> it's only 4 pm
[22:53] <NigelMoby> :p
[22:53] <fsphil-laptop> thankfully not here, or I'd be at work :)
[22:53] <natrium42> haha
[22:53] <natrium42> just had interviews
[22:54] <NigelMoby> How'd they go?
[22:54] <natrium42> very well, i ama good fit
[22:54] <NigelMoby> Excellent!
[22:55] <natrium42> :)
[22:57] <Randomskk> sweet! for a job or what?
[22:57] <natrium42> yeah, at apple
[22:57] <Randomskk> oooh
[22:57] <Randomskk> pretty cool! doing what?
[22:57] <natrium42> 25% hw discount :)
[22:57] <Randomskk> hehe
[22:57] <natrium42> media team
[22:58] <Randomskk> nice
[22:58] <natrium42> framework between hardware and apps
[22:58] <natrium42> had 6 interviews today
[22:59] <natrium42> was fun
[22:59] <Randomskk> man, I bet.
[22:59] <Randomskk> I guess they like to be thorough :P
[22:59] <natrium42> yep
[23:00] <natrium42> there are 18 people in the team
[23:00] <natrium42> at least it wasnt all of them :)
[23:00] <Randomskk> hehe
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[23:01] <natrium42> how is habitat?
[23:01] <natrium42> looks like the first rl test is coming up
[23:02] <Randomskk> so it's running live
[23:02] <Randomskk> we had a sprint last week to go from "a lot of code that nearly works" to "just the code that works, get it working, have it actually work"
[23:03] <Randomskk> so we cut out a lot of stuff, swapped to a much more scalable architecture, and made it work
[23:03] <Randomskk> which means it's the most basic thing that /will/ work, so it's also not pretty atm? but then we did it, it's now live, and now we're making it pretty before adding new features
[23:03] <Randomskk> however yes
[23:03] <Randomskk> this weekend's launch will be the first real launch where habitat is the main backend
[23:03] <Dan-K2VOL> nice!
[23:04] <Randomskk> it's been running in the past, but only as a secondary test thing
[23:04] <Randomskk> (and it has worked :P)
[23:04] <Randomskk> so spacenear.us will be displaying the results of habitat's parsing. it should be identical.
[23:05] <Randomskk> "should" :P
[23:05] <Randomskk> but if anything goes wrong with the payload during the flight, we can write a hotfix that alters the incoming telemetry before it hits the parser, fixing it live, in a way that won't mess up any other payloads
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[23:07] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[23:07] <natrium42> it's sored on robs server anyway, right?
[23:07] <natrium42> so could alwys recover the data
[23:07] <natrium42> *stored
[23:07] <Randomskk> yes, indeed
[23:07] <Randomskk> and we still store all the original data too, for that matter
[23:07] <Randomskk> so it should be fine :P
[23:08] <natrium42> yeah
[23:08] <natrium42> thats how i did it too
[23:09] <natrium42> monitor launches to be able to hotfix if anything went wrong
[23:09] <natrium42> bbl, gonna move to starbucks
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[23:21] <natrium42> bck
[23:22] <Randomskk> hi
[23:25] <natrium42> haha, my batteri discharged from 100% down to %65 in 4 minutes
[23:25] <natrium42> *battery
[23:25] <natrium42> i really need to get a new one
[23:25] <natrium42> oh, 61% now
[23:26] <natrium42> 57%
[23:26] <natrium42> aaargh
[23:26] <natrium42> all the seats near outlets are taken
[23:26] <Randomskk> D:
[23:27] <Randomskk> good thing you're getting a massive discount on apple goods eh ;D
[23:27] <natrium42> only if i accept their future offer, though
[23:27] <natrium42> still watiging for facebook's offer
[23:27] <Randomskk> :o
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[23:29] <natrium42> well, it died, back to ipad2
[23:30] <Randomskk> did you go for interview at facebook?
[23:30] <natrium42> yeah, had on-site interviews twice
[23:30] <Randomskk> sweet
[23:31] <natrium42> latest one was this monay
[23:31] <natrium42> monday
[23:31] <natrium42> damn touch keyboard
[23:31] <Randomskk> sounds all very exciting, both would be excellent to work for I'm sure
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[23:42] <natrium42> omg, power, precious power!
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[00:00] --- Fri Aug 19 2011