highaltitude.log.20110816

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[02:25] <nickolai89> hey anyone on?
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[02:57] <nickolai89> if anyone's around, i'm having some trouble getting my ntx2 to transmit correctly. I wrote it up on the arduino forums: http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,68647.msg514925.html#msg514925. If anyone has a chance to take a loot at it, this would be much appreciated
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[03:10] <W0OTM> howdy
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[04:34] <nickolai> hey all, any ideas as to what i can do for a last minute cutdown mechanism?
[04:59] <SamSilver> car door opener
[05:00] <SamSilver> nickolai:
[05:00] <nickolai> samsilver: go on....
[05:01] <SamSilver> I am looking for the site
[05:02] <SamSilver> it is tough, strong and reliable
[05:02] <SamSilver> but not light weight
[05:04] <natrium42> O_O
[05:04] <natrium42> sup W0OTM
[05:06] <nickolai89> does it require i take apart my car? :P
[05:06] <natrium42> lol
[05:06] <natrium42> "some disassembly may be required"
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[05:08] <SamSilver> I can't find the link they used a VW auto car door lock mechenism
[05:10] <SamSilver> http://www.google.co.za/imgres?q=auto+car+door+lock&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=G&biw=1360&bih=547&tbm=isch&tbnid=zDM9WdbQi2yt1M:&imgrefurl=http://lockpick.en.alibaba.com/product/235215183-200237518/Auto_Lock_for_Passat_Car_Door_Lock.html&docid=efE-fZic6fw37M&w=500&h=400&ei=nvtJTtH6DMGt8gPXiL3qCQ&zoom=1
[05:11] <SamSilver> that is just a picture of the "thing" I am refering to
[05:13] <SamSilver> a better one http://www.google.co.za/imgres?q=car+door+lock+actuator&hl=en&safe=off&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=mcvFleVijVA1bM:&imgrefurl=http://autorepairparts.manufacturer.supplierlist.com/autoparts172121-cardoorlockactuator.htm&docid=Dsy01274a4K-YM&w=240&h=240&ei=PPxJTurPOcf2sgaT2aidBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=436&vpy=84&dur=7546&hovh=192&hovw=192&tx=156&ty=89&page=1&tbnh=122&tbnw=165&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&biw=1360&bih=54
[05:15] <natrium42> dude, tinyurl :P
[05:15] <nickolai89> yea, that's too much effort, screw the cutdown mechanism
[05:16] <natrium42> nickolai89: exactly, do it the russian way
[05:16] <natrium42> :D
[05:16] <nickolai89> just send the thing up!
[05:18] <nickolai89> archer break
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[06:21] <SamSilver> Foil balloons > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vIJINiK9azc
[06:25] <natrium42> awesome
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[06:29] <natrium42> SamSilver: i want to be a kid again
[06:29] <natrium42> so many cool toys
[06:30] <SamSilver> true
[06:32] <number10> wait until you are in your 90s and you will be like a kid again
[06:33] <SpeedEvil> Those are really cool
[06:34] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how hard swim bladders would be to do
[06:35] <SamSilver> a shole of them would be kewl for pico lifting
[06:44] Action: SpeedEvil tries to find old post from ~2000 on this.
[06:44] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about IC powered I think though.
[06:45] <SpeedEvil> As the batteries of the time sucked rather moere
[06:45] <SpeedEvil> more
[06:45] <SpeedEvil> Powered by propane/air.
[06:45] <SpeedEvil> Atmospheric pressure engine.
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[07:07] <earthshine> o/
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[10:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "[UKHAS]New XML and JSON files for XABEN"
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[10:14] <m1x10> Hi all
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[10:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "Fwd: [UKHAS]New XML and JSON files for XABEN"
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[11:48] <griffonbot> Received email: imipak "Re: [UKHAS] Digest for ukhas@googlegroups.com - 3 Messages in 2 Topics"
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[12:28] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... burst water main just up the road. The flood is flowing away from my house...
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[14:00] <Laurenceb> http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/7/29/e0aeddd5-1cc6-488e-82cd-b2ad9ed27352.jpg
[14:03] <Darkside> i has a box!
[14:03] <Darkside> now to go build an antenna into it
[14:03] <number10> what did you use as box?
[14:18] <fsphil> is it bigger on the inside?
[14:19] <number10> and blue
[14:21] <daveake> Time travelling HAB .. if the wind is bad then just send to a better day to fly
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[14:31] <SamSilver> fsphil: not as big on the inside as the outside :-p
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[14:55] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
[14:58] <Zuph> How do, NigelMoby?
[14:58] <SamSilver> Hi NigelMoby
[14:59] <NigelMoby> Gd I think, how's u brad?
[14:59] <NigelMoby> Hi Sam
[14:59] <Zuph> Oh, just fine.
[15:00] <NigelMoby> Were u going away somewhere this month brad?
[15:00] <SamSilver> daveake: http://www.youtube.com/v/Xu4v2kzacHs;fs=1&autoplay=1
[15:00] <Zuph> Heh, I'll be in Connecticut next week. nowhere exciting, though.
[15:01] <NigelMoby> Ohhh
[15:02] <daveake> Those are on a slightly bigger scale than Buzz1 :)
[15:04] <SamSilver> I was thinking " i just saw a shark liftinf a UFO in to a cloud" who is going to belive anyone telling them that
[15:04] <SamSilver> lifting*
[15:07] <daveake> Not an everyday occurrence
[15:09] <cuddykid> hi all
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[15:09] <cuddykid> what's the length for the 1/4 ground plane antenna?
[15:09] <cuddykid> well.. length for each radial?
[15:09] <fsphil> it's in the name
[15:09] <fsphil> 1/4 wave
[15:09] <cuddykid> and 70cm is full wave?
[15:10] <fsphil> yea. it's not exactly 1/4 70cm either
[15:10] <fsphil> so it's not really in the name :p
[15:10] <cuddykid> lol
[15:10] <fsphil> though that'll get you as close as you probably need tbh
[15:10] <fsphil> I think mine ended up being 16.somethingcm
[15:10] <cuddykid> cool :) thanks fsphil
[15:11] <fsphil> http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennagpcalc.html
[15:11] <fsphil> 16.4 cm
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[15:27] <simhed> cuddykid: did you manage to get your arduino + ntx2 + lassen iq working together properly?
[15:28] <cuddykid> simhed, yup, they all worked perfectly on the last flight :)
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[15:28] <simhed> cool :)
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[15:37] <rjharrison> fsphil, removed Class A airspace and it looks a bit cleaner http://www.robertharrison.org/kml_testing/
[15:39] <gerontious> wow
[15:39] <gerontious> cambridge is busy atm
[15:41] <rjharrison> Yep
[15:41] <rjharrison> Hoping to restrict on predicted flight path
[15:42] <Laurenceb> what are the blue areas?
[15:42] <rjharrison> Though might not be worth the effort
[15:43] <rjharrison> Click on one
[15:43] <rjharrison> Restricted airspace in the main
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[15:47] <Laurenceb> 2gas venting site" interesitng
[15:48] <daveake> I have one of those but I've never needed a NOTAM for it ;)
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[15:56] Action: SpeedEvil finds out about http://www.airshow.co.uk/ from NOTAM site.
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[15:58] <fsphil> nice rjharrison - that's still pretty busy though!
[16:01] <rjharrison> Yep I'm thinking on off toggle
[16:02] <rjharrison> RocketBoy used it on the tracker and said it was usefull for launch at the w/e
[16:04] <rjharrison> fsphil, http://robertharrison.org/tracker-new go inot settings and tick the box and then look at the map
[16:04] Nick change: gerontious -> edmoore
[16:12] <number10> edmoore something to read if you have not seen already www.xlta.org/library/noaa/Scientific_Ballooning_Handbook_Part1.pdf
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[16:14] <rjharrison> number10, nice
[16:16] <edmoore> it's downloading
[16:16] <number10> some more if you want to look http://www.bowkis.com/balloon papers/ but wont be there for long rjharrison
[16:16] <edmoore> but I *think* i might have read it a few years back
[16:17] <number10> need to go to /balloon papers - that book I mentioned the other day is there edmoore
[16:18] <edmoore> nice
[16:18] <edmoore> ta
[16:19] <rjharrison> Thanks number10
[16:20] <number10> I have some others by otto winzen, and winzen research - will put them up soon
[16:20] <W0OTM> howdy
[16:20] <edmoore> hi W0OTM
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[16:20] <W0OTM> Im looking for a small 4 pin connector
[16:21] <W0OTM> dont care what, just something really small
[16:21] <eroomde> test
[16:21] <eroomde> hmm
[16:21] <eroomde> ssh is quite robust
[16:22] <eroomde> had wifi off for about 5 minutes then and my screen session still works
[16:22] <eroomde> W0OTM: like 1mm across or 5mm across?
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[16:38] <ruku> Anyone familiar with AX.25 at 9600 baud?
[16:39] <cuddykid> built my 1/4 wave - time to do some more range tests!!
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[16:51] <simhed> gl cuddykid
[16:54] <fsphil> oooh I should range test the 2400 baud thing
[16:56] <number10> what thing is that fsphil
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[16:56] <fsphil> oh I got fldigi working at 2400 baud
[16:56] <fsphil> and my payload
[16:57] <number10> thats good - on ntx2?
[16:57] <fsphil> yea
[16:57] <fsphil> funcube dongle as the receiver -- it wouldn't work with a standard amateur radio receiver
[16:57] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6scNiWc4kgo
[16:58] <rjharrison> wooo
[16:58] <rjharrison> fsphil, super cool
[16:58] <fsphil> yep :) very funny seeing the lines just appear
[16:58] <fsphil> I expect the range will be awful
[16:59] <rjharrison> Do you do anything special to drive the ntx2 at those speeds?
[16:59] <fsphil> nope, just make sure the shift is about 1400 hz
[16:59] <rjharrison> Any smoothing and timing of the voltage change
[16:59] <fsphil> nothing
[16:59] <fsphil> just the two resistors
[16:59] <rjharrison> rock on then ...
[16:59] <SamSilver> paper clip antenna?
[17:00] <fsphil> there was no antenna on the payload (it's in breadboard atm)
[17:00] <rjharrison> I have had 300 baud but that takes the biscuit!
[17:00] <fsphil> the breadboard itself was I suppose
[17:00] <fsphil> 300 baud works well even over big distances
[17:05] <fsphil> I think 1200 baud will work too. if I have time I'll fly a second payload next time running at that speed
[17:06] <Darkside> heg
[17:07] <Darkside> I should tey 600 on my flught
[17:07] <number10> rjharrison, I was looking at your photos on flickr do you useENT1/ENR1 for an uplink payload cutdown?
[17:07] <Darkside> aho id need to change the resistors
[17:07] <rjharrison> No there is no up link atm
[17:07] <rjharrison> It's all on board ATM
[17:08] <number10> how do you determine to cutdown?
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[17:19] <SamSilver> afk
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[17:39] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/fmdET.jpg
[17:41] <nickolai> that's a very minimal payload Darkside...
[17:41] <number10> is that an FSA03 Darkside?
[17:41] <Darkside> nope number10
[17:41] <Darkside> D2523 module from sparfun
[17:41] <Darkside> uses a ublox 5 though
[17:41] <earthshine> o/
[17:41] <Randomskk> you found a box in the end then?
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[17:42] <Darkside> yep
[17:42] <Darkside> chemistry department
[17:42] <Darkside> i wandered into the store and asked for one
[17:42] <Darkside> and they gave me one, no questions asked
[17:42] <Darkside> >_>
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[17:43] <Randomskk> nice :P
[17:43] <Randomskk> it's not like it's a dangerous thing I guess
[17:43] <NigeyS> ello earthshine
[17:43] <earthshine> yo
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[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:47] <nickolai> hey Dan-K2VOL, are you around?
[17:47] <Darkside> nickolai: its not a minimal payload at all
[17:47] <Darkside> it has the functionality of most payloads
[17:48] <nickolai> no cameras tho?
[17:48] <Darkside> gps, temperature, pressure, and NTX2 transmitter
[17:48] <Darkside> nah
[17:48] <Darkside> just telemetry
[17:48] <nickolai> i was thinking about dropping the cameras from my launch and just going ahead with it. slightly less loss if everything goes wrong....
[17:48] <nickolai> i've had the hardest time programming my flight computer correctly
[17:49] <Darkside> its always fun
[17:52] <nickolai> meh, it's been annoying. i've had to scrub twice, and now that i'm heading back to school imma have to return this helium cylinder unused :(
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[17:54] <Zuph> nickolai: If it's a whitestarish question, I can (probably) help you in Dan's stead.
[17:54] <nickolai> ummm, i was curious about this: http://sunsite.utk.edu/~mcoffey/ux-1/ did you participate in that flight?
[17:55] <Dan-K2VOL> what's up, I'm here too
[17:55] <nickolai> oh hey dan
[17:56] <Dan-K2VOL> That was with the prior group I was with at the University of Tennessee, before I moved here and met Zuph
[17:56] <Dan-K2VOL> (here to Louisville, KY)
[17:56] <nickolai> i was reading through that story earlier, and i was wondering, as i was scrubbing my launch attempt for today, why did you guys decide to launch with so much testing undone?
[17:57] <Zuph> Because that's the way UTARC roll{ed,s} :-p
[17:57] <Randomskk> testing schesting :P
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> it was our first one, and had scheduled a lot of help to be there, had helium delivered to launch site (we didn't have a truck) and we were not yet good amateur baloon engineers.
[17:58] <nickolai> so going back, would you still make the call to launch that day?
[17:59] <Dan-K2VOL> the early flights taught us the lesson to do so though, and though we decided to do trans-atlantic after that first flight, we didn't attempt to do so for another 19 flights
[17:59] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm I have to re-read the story, I've done over 30 flights
[18:01] <nickolai> i was just thinking last night, about the stories i read where things didn't go quite according to plan, but they still recovered the payload, and was somewhat encouraged. but it's been a largely individual project for me and it seemed the only was to launch was to risk everything and i simply didn't want to do that
[18:02] <nickolai> and i surmised that the reason i haven't seen stories where things havent gone according to plan and they didn't recover the balloon is because people are probably too demoralized to post them....
[18:04] <Dan-K2VOL> I would say yes, if dropped into the situation at 5:30AM, I would say yes, we should launch. The value of experience of a real launch and chase was worth more for future flights than the value of the electronics which could have been lost
[18:05] <nickolai> and how many people did you have with you launching it?
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[18:05] <Dan-K2VOL> if dropped into the situation 2 weeks before flight, I would have set a date a week before launch to have everything complete, so crews could be notified about postponing easily
[18:05] <Dan-K2VOL> oh probably 10 people
[18:05] <nickolai> i've only got a couple, which makes it a bit more difficult. i dunno about you guys but we also only have 1 receiver
[18:05] <Dan-K2VOL> oh we lost many balloons nickolai, expensive ones too
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> why?
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> why only 1 receiver
[18:06] <nickolai> cuz that's all we have
[18:06] <nickolai> they're like $600
[18:06] <nickolai> i've contacted local amateur radio clubs to see if anyone has any they want to lend us but heard nothing back
[18:08] <Zuph> Are you in the US, nickolai?
[18:08] <nickolai> it wouldn't be so bad to lose the balloon if I knew I did everything I could to ensure we got it back. like battery testing and radio testing and flight software testing, etc. but if i lost one knowing I could have waited and done more testing that would be pretty upsetting....
[18:08] <nickolai> yea Zuph I'm in NJ at the moment, but I'm headed back to school in IN (Purdue) in a couple days
[18:08] <Zuph> Why no APRS?
[18:09] <nickolai> I dunno, I found out about it only recently
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[18:09] <nickolai> it does look super useful
[18:09] <nickolai> but given the proximity to launch i didn't figure i could put it together in time
[18:10] <Zuph> That would pretty handily solve your "no listeners" problem.
[18:10] <Zuph> Of course, if you use Spacenear.us for tracking and throw a shout-out ahead of time, you can have *other* people listen for your balloon.
[18:11] <Zuph> HAMs hate lending equipment, but love hunting for a signal.
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[18:13] <nickolai> yea i mean i figured people might be interested in the launch itself when i contacted those clubs so i invited them to join, but, no response
[18:14] <nickolai> brb
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[18:16] <eroomde> nickolai: wha's your location?
[18:16] <Hiena> Hmm, anybody has a hot air balloon volume calculator?
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[18:17] <eroomde> assume it is a pefect sphere
[18:17] <Zuph> eroomde: he's in New Jersey
[18:17] <Hiena> I have to build a balloon with 15kg lifting capacity.
[18:18] <eroomde> Hiena: a 3kg balloon will lift 15kg
[18:18] <eroomde> to about 25km
[18:19] <eroomde> the limit is really what the neck can take
[18:20] <Hiena> eroomde: Hot air the only option, because no budget for the helium. It should be tethered , because the unmanned freeflight balloons illegal here.
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[18:21] <Hiena> Also the altitude should be limited to 50 meter.
[18:23] <eroomde> hrm
[18:23] <eroomde> well, good luck!
[18:23] <eroomde> what is this for?
[18:23] <eroomde> drop testing?
[18:24] <WillDuckworth> hey eroomde - how was Darkspace's talk the other evening?
[18:24] <WillDuckworth> Darkside - even ;)
[18:24] <eroomde> Darkside*
[18:24] <WillDuckworth> at the hackspace
[18:24] <eroomde> very good!
[18:24] <Darkside> hahaha
[18:24] <eroomde> very impressive
[18:24] <Darkside> ohi
[18:24] <eroomde> and interesting
[18:24] <Darkside> >_>
[18:24] <Darkside> eroomde: i got a box!
[18:25] <WillDuckworth> good stuff
[18:25] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/fmdET.jpg
[18:25] <Zuph> Tell 'em we need a hackspace on the other side to catch our balloon!
[18:25] <eroomde> Darkside: nice
[18:25] <WillDuckworth> is that a ublox falcon gps Darkside?
[18:25] <eroomde> Zuph: yup
[18:26] <Darkside> WillDuckworth: nah
[18:26] <Darkside> its a ublo module though
[18:26] <Darkside> ublox 5 *
[18:26] <Darkside> eroomde: still haven't weighed it
[18:27] <Hiena> eroomde: Yup. We got problems with the crane operators and need some cheaper, long term solution. For an hour the, rent cost for 20 meter crane is 50 USD.
[18:28] <eroomde> that's nothing
[18:28] <eroomde> gosh
[18:28] <eroomde> balloons will cost you 1000USD before you've even liftd anything
[18:28] <eroomde> plus they will be enormously wind sensitive
[18:28] <Randomskk> 50USD for a crane? we could get our stupid tree payload back
[18:28] <eroomde> my STRONGEST possible advice would be to use a crane
[18:28] <Hiena> The most crane operator works in the office hours, and should pay the waiting hours.
[18:29] <Zuph> Yeah, certainly couldn't rent a crane that cheap here.
[18:29] <eroomde> but 50usb really is very little
[18:29] <eroomde> balloons will be a pig and cost you loads of money]
[18:29] <eroomde> maybe even injure you
[18:29] <Hiena> Also, for the drops need double 0 wind condition.
[18:29] <Zuph> Be safer to build a crane :-p
[18:30] <Hiena> Last time we waited for 6 hour until the favorable condition and finished 3 drop.
[18:30] <Randomskk> eroomde: moom for os x
[18:30] <Randomskk> superset of divvy, £3
[18:30] <eroomde> explain
[18:30] <eroomde> oh
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: hydrogen!
[18:31] <eroomde> looks more limited
[18:31] <Hiena> 100USD/drop kind of pricey.
[18:31] <Randomskk> eroomde: it can do the same grid thing
[18:31] <eroomde> hrm, tho actually quite cheap
[18:31] <Randomskk> plus does other things
[18:31] <eroomde> is there a tower or something near you?
[18:32] <Randomskk> also it captures the green + button on windows to make them more useful
[18:32] <Randomskk> I don't actually have this, but a guy at work does
[18:32] <eroomde> if i'm willing to move the mouse to a corner, i may aswell drag resize
[18:32] <eroomde> i think keyboard shortcuts are the selling point for me
[18:32] <Randomskk> indeed
[18:33] <nickolai> back
[18:33] <Randomskk> I don't think I'm buying moom on the basis of I already have divvy and it works great for what I want
[18:33] <Randomskk> (also, xmonad, <3<3<3)
[18:33] <nickolai> eroomde, do you know edmoore?
[18:33] <Hiena> eroomde: The problem with the towers is the insurance and the owners. Most of them ask same price for the use of tower as the crane operators.
[18:34] <Randomskk> what, 50USD?
[18:34] <Zuph> nickolai: I'd bet the farm on it.
[18:34] <nickolai> haha
[18:34] <nickolai> where are you based zuph?
[18:34] <Zuph> Louisville, KY
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> back Dan-K2VOL sorry was to dinner
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[18:38] <nickolai> ever make it up to purdue zuph?
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL: I didn't know you made some 30 ascents
[18:39] <eroomde> Hiena: http://i.imgur.com/AGaS2.jpg
[18:39] <Zuph> nickolai: Yep. Applied there for my undergrad, but couldn't afford the pittance of scholarship they offered. Strongly considering them for a PhD.
[18:39] <eroomde> a tethered 13kg object
[18:39] <eroomde> from a 3kg balloon
[18:39] <eroomde> it was the rickiest, most difficult, and most ill conceived thing i have done in hab
[18:39] <eroomde> that's me on the right
[18:40] <eroomde> there was barely a breath of wind on the ground
[18:40] <eroomde> but i had to really lean in to stop it flying off
[18:40] <nickolai> is that a rocket at the end of the line?
[18:40] <eroomde> it was dragging our 2 x 25kg weights across the field
[18:40] <eroomde> nickolai: nope
[18:40] <eroomde> it's a drop test vehicle
[18:40] <Dan-K2VOL> Lunar_Lander, yeah 24 with UTARC/Spirit of Knoxville
[18:40] <eroomde> designed to fall under gravity
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, the ExoMars one right?
[18:40] <nickolai> design to fall under gravity, lol
[18:40] <eroomde> yup
[18:40] <Hiena> Randomskk: Yeah. Even the observation tower's owner asks triple price if we ask about the drop possibilities.
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL: so 19 ascents besides the SNOX atlantic attempts?
[18:41] <eroomde> nickolai: ok, designed to fall fast and stably under gravity
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> unfortunately the new people at UTARC removed the balloon flight log wiki, but you can see some of the flights on the arhab.org records as UX-##
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:41] <eroomde> it was dropped from 25km and allowed to accelerate to transonic speeds
[18:41] <nickolai> oh damn
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, plus 5 or so for schools in Indiana for SpacePort Indiana
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> btw Dan-K2VOL do you know the BASE Project at DePauw university?
[18:42] <Dan-K2VOL> we tested many ballast systems, and zero pressure balloon designs leading up to the trans-atlantic
[18:42] <eroomde> Hiena: the moral is, i really urge you to discount tethered balloons as a cheaper or easier option
[18:42] <Dan-K2VOL> I've heard of them Lunar_lander, and they're not far from me
[18:42] <eroomde> we ended up spending about 2000USD in three days trying and failing to get the balloon to do what we want
[18:42] <eroomde> in the end we hired a helicopter
[18:42] <eroomde> because it was MUCH CHEAPER
[18:43] <eroomde> silly as it sounds
[18:43] <eroomde> and thats even before you factorr in the man hours cost
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL: that is cool, they are pretty cool to talk to also
[18:44] <eroomde> Hiena: end result - a successful drop test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOfwDgcKpMY
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> You can get 'proper' tethered airships though
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> for advertising
[18:44] <eroomde> yes
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> Maybe a sane route?
[18:44] <eroomde> they have some stability thanks to the sahpe
[18:44] <Dan-K2VOL> oh where have you run into them Lunar_Lander?
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> that was purely by chance
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> how many chutes O_o
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> you know the balloon project at the Uni of Wyoming?
[18:45] <Lunar_Lander> I think I typed "university weather balloon" or so into google
[18:45] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: 2 mains
[18:45] <eroomde> well, one test chute
[18:45] <eroomde> one reserve chute that is much strong if the test fails
[18:45] <Dan-K2VOL> nickolai, Bill Brown will send you an APRS package ready to fly so you don't lose your stuff
[18:45] <eroomde> and both of those are deployed by spring drogue chutes
[18:45] <nickolai> for how much?
[18:46] Action: Laurenceb_ just found MMA8451Q accel
[18:46] <Laurenceb_> sooo nice
[18:47] <Dan-K2VOL> for free my friend, if I had a spare APRS I would too :-)
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> i need to start on a dactyl v2, can use the new STM32F2xx for a start
[18:47] <Dan-K2VOL> but all mine ended up in trees in teh mountains
[18:47] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Already shipped his transmitters back to him?
[18:47] <Dan-K2VOL> no, Brian has them, but he could ship down to nickolai if needed, when is your desired launch date nickolai?
[18:48] <nickolai> at this point, given my need to get to IN before classes start on monday, the only launch date i could do is tomorrow
[18:48] <Zuph> Laurenceb_: How are the F2xx vs the F1xx? Any serious differences, or just the embiggening?
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> its twice as fast
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> so i can run a kaaaalmaaaaan
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> at 300Hz
[18:49] <Zuph> Aren't you fancy?
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL> ah, I wouldn't push so hard for a launch date that tight, it will not be fun
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL> where in IN?
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> KALLMANNNN
[18:49] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: He's going to Purdue
[18:49] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: what runs twice as fast sorry?
[18:49] <Zuph> Just a hop-skip-and-jump from Mr. Tanner
[18:49] <nickolai> i'm going to see if i can't get my flight computer stack to work somehow and try to launch tomorrow with just 1 camera instead of both, or maybe even none. i do want to get that experience of launching and chasing
[18:50] <nickolai> yea, Purdue
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> the STM32F2xx series - 150mhz
[18:50] <nickolai> who's Mr. Tanner?
[18:50] <Zuph> Laurenceb_: Whatcha Kalmannnning
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> Zuph: actually i cheated, im using the openpilot kalman
[18:50] <Zuph> nickolai: Whitestar's (but mostly Dan's) buddy who runs Spaceport Indiana.
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> as its so well implemented and easy to port
[18:50] <Zuph> Laurenceb_: I mean, what's the application?
[18:50] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: does chibios support it?
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> - for attitude determination
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> id suspect so - its just STM32F1xx with fast clock
[18:51] <Zuph> ChibiOS supports the F2xx, but HAL support isn't as good.
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> and a few extras aiui
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> Zuph: did they change any of the F1xx hardware?
[18:51] <eroomde> Zuph: usable or painful?
[18:51] <Randomskk> oooh stm32f2 eh
[18:52] <Dan-K2VOL> nickolai which purdue campus
[18:52] <nickolai> west lafayette
[18:52] <Zuph> eroomde, Laurenceb_: Unknown, basing this off rumors and anecdotes.
[18:52] <eroomde> ok
[18:52] <eroomde> i might give one a go
[18:53] <Zuph> I think some registers got futzed around with, and *most* new/additional peripherals don't work unless you bang it out yourself.
[18:53] <Dan-K2VOL> well Nickolai, if you have a car on campus you could launch from SpacePort in Columbus IN any weekend
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> main issue for me is its not avaliable in a 48 pin package
[18:54] <Dan-K2VOL> you could buy helium from the SpacePort, they always have a few tanks for balloons
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> i dont want to waste board area
[18:54] <nickolai> thanks dan, i'll definitely keep that in mind
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[18:55] <Zuph> nickolai: I strongly recommend that course of action. Spaceport Indiana has a great facility, and Brian is a great guy.
[18:55] <nickolai> yikes, it's 2 hours away!
[18:55] <Zuph> Just on the other side of Indy :-p
[18:55] <nickolai> brian is at spaceport IN?
[18:56] <eroomde> 2 hours is nothing by us standards right?
[18:56] <eroomde> you'll drive that far for a beer
[18:56] <Zuph> eroomde: Rgr
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> haha eroomde
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> lol nickolai, I agree, it's not great, but it's very friendly to balloon launches
[18:56] <Zuph> Old: "In the UK, 100 miles is a long distance. In the US, 100 years is a long time."
[18:56] <nickolai> lol, we did drive to the illinois border one time to get beer (they don't sell beer in IN on sundays, state law) (and we had monday off :) )
[18:57] <eroomde> Zuph: new to me
[18:57] <eroomde> and lol
[18:57] <Zuph> Blue laws in Indiana are ridiculous.
[18:57] <fsphil> they don't sell beer in sundays? wow
[18:57] <Dan-K2VOL> blue laws are ridiculous
[18:57] <eroomde> they don;t sell beer on sundays
[18:57] <eroomde> bloody hell
[18:57] <Zuph> Dry counties in Kentucky are ridiculous.
[18:57] <eroomde> and you have to be bare foot too
[18:57] <Zuph> Something like 65% of counties in Kentucky don't allow alcohol sales at all.
[18:57] <eroomde> and pace 30 furlongs before church and a barn build?
[18:57] <fsphil> I don't drink beer and even I think that's mad :)
[18:57] <nickolai> yea two hours isn't really that bad considering a balloon launch is generally an all day event....
[18:58] <eroomde> i've driven 2 hours for a balloon launch
[18:58] <eroomde> and i'm english
[18:58] <eroomde> the chase is often 2 hours each way too
[18:58] <Dan-K2VOL> oh just face it, america has so many things backward - we don't mind movies like "Hobo with a shotgun", but you'll be arrested for urinating behind a bush next to the bar - for 'indecency'
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> same here tho
[18:59] <eroomde> warwick?
[19:00] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Slip a few bare nipples into the master of Hobo with a Shotgun, and I'm sure all copies will be pulled.
[19:00] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[19:00] <nickolai> lol
[19:01] <nickolai> have you guys launched from spaceport IN bfr?
[19:01] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[19:01] <eroomde> yeah we did watch with a little perplextion over here the reaction to nipplegate
[19:01] <Dan-K2VOL> we just barely didn't launch SpeedBall-1 from there
[19:01] <Zuph> That was fun.
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL> it's a very flat, really big, airport, with a 36 acre concrete pad for your balloon launch
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL> but there's very little traffic
[19:02] <eroomde> sounds amazing
[19:02] <eroomde> a hangar from which to inflate?
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL> it was fun zuph, I look forward to that again, and maybe letting go of it this time
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde, yes, a hanger can be arranged
[19:02] <eroomde> cool
[19:03] <eroomde> sounds like the perfect facility
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> though not tall enough for the trans-atlantic ZPs
[19:03] <eroomde> latexs can be quite tall too
[19:03] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/zBeUO.jpg
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> true!
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> was that a 300g?
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> 3000
[19:03] <eroomde> yup
[19:03] <eroomde> was actually quite tiring holding it down
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> quite full too
[19:04] <eroomde> it had a lot of list
[19:04] <eroomde> lift*
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> I once heard of a 4500 latex
[19:04] <eroomde> about 18kg worth
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL> wow
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> but that was a special made for a japanese air sampler experiment in antarctica
[19:04] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: To be fair, I think our balloon is only a couple feet too tall for the hanger at SPI.
[19:05] <Dan-K2VOL> I like passing the balloon around to spectators with a neutrally bouyant 8kg toolbox attached, it's an odd feeling
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[19:05] <Dan-K2VOL> true zuph, I think we'd be able to use the Cummins/Toyota hangar ok
[19:06] <Zuph> Think they'll park their corporate Canadair on the tarmac for us?
[19:07] <nickolai> i imagine balloons would fly east from spi, hm, that would make the trip really far lol. I suppose it's just as good to launch from purdue's airport
[19:07] <Zuph> Maybe even a corporate 737.
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[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL: what did you fly on those 19 flights?
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[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil-laptop rjharrison
[19:12] <fsphil-laptop> g'day Lunar_Lander
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[19:14] <Dan-K2VOL> Lunar_lander, we flew PIC processors, tested HF morse and RTTY transmitters, liquid ballast tests, home-made ZP envelope tests, ballast algorithm tests
[19:15] <Dan-K2VOL> insulation tests, antenna tests
[19:15] <Dan-K2VOL> a precursor system to spacenear.us called the Distributed Tracking and Relay Client
[19:15] <Dan-K2VOL> tested HF receivers
[19:16] <Dan-K2VOL> a very very low bitrate uplink protocol that was something like 3 bits per minute
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> sounds cool
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> tested heaters for batteries
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> tested cutdowns
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> so mostly engineering
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello GW8RAK
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> yep, all to build our capability to do long duration
[19:17] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK: I got word from that ask-a-scientist site that someone now got my question to answer it
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> science experiments onboard were always welcome, but we viewed as something we didn't have time to do ourselves until we got the engineering working
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> the experiments came from the schools?
[19:18] <GW8RAK> I'll have to look for that. Should be interesting.
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> never had any experiments, there was only three of us working on it
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> didn't have time to solicit them
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:19] <Dan-K2VOL> we had sensors we needed for engineering analysis
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK: I'll let you know when it is answered
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:19] <GW8RAK> Great thanks. Problems at home at present, so haven't any time to thing about electronics and other things.
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:19] <Upu> evening
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> btw did you ever fly a HAB before GW8RAK?
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello Upu
[19:20] <Upu> If you're here raise your hand : Jonathan Pelham
[19:20] <Upu> Martin Sweeney
[19:20] <Upu> Oliver de Peyer
[19:20] <GW8RAK> Not yet Lunar_Lander. I'm trying to fly it for the Air Cadets, but we need insurance and without it, it cannot be official.
[19:20] <Upu> anyone know what nickname any of those go by ?
[19:21] <GW8RAK> But I'm going to fly one privately.
[19:21] <Dan-K2VOL> I know oliver's email address I think, but don't recall his chat upu
[19:21] <Upu> mail is fine Dan-K2VOL if you have it
[19:21] <Upu> for the conference
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah OK GW8RAK
[19:21] <Upu> feel free to PM it thx
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[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> I once wrote Oliver, didn't answer
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
[19:22] <RocketBoy> :-)
[19:22] <Upu> evening Steve
[19:22] <fsphil-laptop> Lunar_Lander, you have to say his name three times
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:22] <Upu> haha
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> what does he want to do anyways?
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> he flew a bacteria collector in the SW of the USA
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> and now he wants to make a balloon biolab?
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah wants to do a live experiment on the payload while it's at a float
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> but I think he never detailed it?
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> he only wants to spray it with H2O2
[19:27] <Dan-K2VOL> he has in email i think
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> I actually once wrote him
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> will do a second time
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL> trying to cryogenically collect bacteria I believe
[19:29] <nickolai> hey upu
[19:29] <Upu> hi nickolai
[19:29] <nickolai> did you ever launch your balloon during that festival like you were planning to?
[19:29] <Upu> negative
[19:29] <Dan-K2VOL> using liquid nitrogen to condense O2 and CO2
[19:29] <Upu> weather
[19:29] <nickolai> when's your next planned launch date?
[19:30] <Upu> waiting on NOTAM atm
[19:31] <nickolai> by the way, i was wondering if i could look at your code? i've had a surprising amount of trouble getting everything to work properly
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> cool Dan-K2VOL
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> a even better cryosampler of course uses LHe or LNe
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL> they all sound very heavy to put on a ballon :-)
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> but the japanese did it and flew them on the 4500s
[19:34] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, must not have too much liquid
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:38] <nickolai> upu u still there?
[19:38] <GW8RAK> For those interested in robotics http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20791-robot-mission-impossible-wins-video-prize.html
[19:38] <Upu> yup 1 sec
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[19:42] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "[UKHAS] habitat, spacenear.us and the distributed listener."
[19:44] <Upu> hi nickolai
[19:44] <Upu> sorry back now
[19:44] <nickolai> no worries
[19:44] <nickolai> did you see my last message about the code?
[19:44] <Upu> no 1 sec
[19:45] <Upu> yeah sure
[19:45] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/Cfn26xb9
[19:46] <Upu> thats a test build
[19:46] <Upu> fair warning my coding is rubbish
[19:46] <Upu> and contains my flight status code
[19:46] <nickolai> what makes you say it's rubbish?
[19:47] <Upu> its my coding so its bound to be awful :)
[19:47] <Randomskk> btw everyone here who didn't get the email DanielRichman just sent, the parser backend for ukhas data has just swapped over, so if your payload suddenly stops getting through to spacenear.us give us a shout
[19:47] <Upu> thanks Randomskk
[19:47] <nickolai> well, does it work?
[19:47] <Randomskk> but all the payloads which had XML on the server two days ago have been converted to the new format and there are transition programs in place to keep dl-fldigi etc working
[19:48] <Upu> I think so I've never launched it :) I've put test GPS data through it
[19:48] <Upu> I amended Ava XML 2 days ago ? Is that likely to be ok now ?
[19:48] <Randomskk> uhm
[19:48] <Randomskk> what did you change?
[19:48] <Upu> added 2 fields at the end
[19:49] <Randomskk> what were they? I'll check now.
[19:49] <Upu> should be flight status and rate of ascent/vertical delta
[19:49] <nickolai> i think i see what you're trying to do with it. i've had trouble with mine in getting all the components to work together. individually they work just fine, but put em together and weird shit starts happening
[19:49] <Upu> after tmeps
[19:49] <Randomskk> "var" and "flightsttus"?
[19:49] <Upu> "wierd shit" is the bit you need to debug
[19:50] Action: Darkside just designed a flight computer board, all through-hole
[19:50] <Randomskk> flightsttus is [sic]
[19:50] <Darkside> total elapsed time: <1hr
[19:50] <Upu> did I misspell that ? :)
[19:50] <Upu> var=vertical ascent rate
[19:50] <Randomskk> yes, yes you did :P
[19:50] <Randomskk> I can change that if you like haha
[19:50] <Upu> I'm such a spaz sometimes
[19:50] <Upu> yes pls
[19:50] <Randomskk> alright done
[19:50] <Upu> thx
[19:50] <Randomskk> yea, so your changes went through fine
[19:51] <Upu> I put some code in to detect leaks, floats etc
[19:51] <Upu> doesn't do anything if it detects it at the moment
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[19:51] <nickolai> well yea, i've just had a hard time figuring out the root cause. sometimes i get something working on my chipkit board, bring it over to arduino and a whole new set of issues crops up
[19:52] <Upu> nickolai the code seems to work fine you're more than welcome to use it but please do test it all fully before laucnhign
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[19:52] <nickolai> of course, i've scrubbed twice due to testing revealing inadequate code. thanks for the code though, i'll take a look at it and see if I can't find anything
[19:53] <nickolai> by the way, do you needthe while (1) at the beginning? i thought void loop() just looped forever... does your code not work without the while (1)?
[19:53] <Randomskk> loop() loops forever in arduino
[19:53] <Upu> told you I was rubbish at programing
[19:53] <Upu> :)
[19:54] <Upu> there will have been something before it that I've since removed
[19:54] <Upu> but thx I'll removed that
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[19:54] <nickolai> also, you should take a look at the TinyGPS library, it does a lot of parsing for you. A bit late now that you've completed and tested your code, but maybe you can find it useful somewhere down the road :)
[19:55] <Upu> I don't do anything with gps_lock either
[19:55] <nickolai> although to be honest, this would have probably been a lot easier if i programmed it all myself like you did, tinyGPS has thrown a number of issues into the bag
[19:56] <Upu> I used the "whatever works" philosophy
[19:56] <nickolai> very decent philosophy
[19:56] <Upu> i.e the DallasTemperature.h library which doesn't work with the newer DS1821's
[19:56] <fsphil-laptop> cool, spacex is launching to the ISS in a few months
[19:56] <Upu> yeah I heard that
[19:57] <Darkside> ok, finished PCB designing...
[19:57] <Darkside> i think i've done enough for tonight...
[19:57] <nickolai> the new dragon looks really nice compared to the last one
[19:57] <Upu> Darkside I'm borrowing you when I need to redo the PCB for AVA
[19:57] <Upu> do you use Eagle ?
[19:57] <fsphil-laptop> haha
[19:57] <Darkside> Upu: fuck no
[19:57] <Upu> lol
[19:57] <nickolai> lol
[19:57] <nickolai> what do you use?
[19:57] <Darkside> i use professional PCB design tools
[19:57] <Darkside> Altium Designer all the way baby
[19:57] <Laurenceb_> sellout
[19:57] <nickolai> is it easier to use than eagle?
[19:57] <Upu> excellent I'm renting you
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> opensource ftw
[19:58] <Darkside> Upu: i should just sendyou the board i just made for NigeyS
[19:58] <Darkside> i just put together a through-hole flight computer in about an hour
[19:58] <Darkside> 5x9cm
[19:58] <Upu> yeah you don't use Eagle do you
[19:59] <Darkside> i think the conditions to getting access to one of my designs is that you build your own first
[19:59] <Darkside> be it veroboard, or whatever
[19:59] <nickolai> darkside do you make your own pcbs or send them out to be made?
[19:59] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/avafcv1/atmega3.bmp
[19:59] <Darkside> i get them manufactured elsewhere
[19:59] <Darkside> BMP?
[20:00] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/avafc.jpg
[20:00] <Upu> thats what it exports as :)
[20:00] <Darkside> Upu: hey thats not bad
[20:00] <Upu> its too big, too messy and half the holes are the wrong size but it works :)
[20:00] <Darkside> it looks fine
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> 300 times better than the hadie board
[20:00] <fsphil-laptop> (stripboard)
[20:00] <Darkside> the one i just made isn't a whole lot better
[20:01] <Darkside> though i admit i am pretty happy with mininut :-)
[20:01] <Upu> I want to reduce the size alot and fit it all into a flanged plastic case
[20:01] <fsphil-laptop> still room for minimininut ;)
[20:01] <Darkside> yeah
[20:01] <Darkside> i still need to do that fsphil-laptop
[20:01] <NigeyS> Darkside is a star :D
[20:01] <fsphil-laptop> same 'ere
[20:01] <Darkside> nanonut
[20:01] <fsphil-laptop> nonut
[20:01] <NigeyS> piconut!
[20:01] <Darkside> haha
[20:01] <fsphil-laptop> nice one NigeyS
[20:01] <NigeyS> :p
[20:02] <Upu> :)
[20:02] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: i reckon i can do it
[20:02] <Upu> ok afk making a brew
[20:02] <Darkside> its just going to bedifficult
[20:02] <NigeyS> coffe pls upu :p
[20:02] <fsphil-laptop> I know you can do it Darkside
[20:02] <Darkside> and i need time
[20:03] <Darkside> atm i'm pretty happy with mininut
[20:03] <fsphil-laptop> if I ever get my finger out and figure eagle I'll try it too
[20:03] <Darkside> NigeyS: can you get some screenshots of the pcb?
[20:03] <Darkside> i'm about to reboot back into OSX
[20:04] <Darkside> open the PCB, press '3' to go into 3D mode
[20:04] <Darkside> shift + moving mouse rotates it aroun
[20:04] <Darkside> ctrl + mouse wheel zooms i think
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[20:04] <Darkside> then you press '2' to go back into 2D mode
[20:04] <Darkside> back in a sec, rebootinhg
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[20:06] <Darkside> k in bac
[20:06] <Darkside> back in mac
[20:06] <Darkside> ooh i need to test the new backend
[20:07] <Upu> might be cold by the time it gets there nickolai
[20:07] <Upu> err
[20:07] <Upu> NigeyS
[20:07] Action: Upu slaps autocomplete niftylettuce
[20:07] <NigeyS> lol
[20:08] <Darkside> hmm 0 lat and long
[20:08] <Darkside> better move the payload
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[20:09] <NigeyS> hi kev
[20:09] <Darkside> jeez it hasn't even gort the time
[20:09] <NigeyS> :o
[20:09] <Darkside> i think my GPSes connector is biggered
[20:09] <Darkside> buggered*
[20:10] <Upu> RocketBoy are you about ?
[20:10] <RocketBoy> yep
[20:13] <Darkside> hmmmmm, my gps module isn't getting lock..
[20:13] <Darkside> i think i should solder the gps directly to the board
[20:16] <nickolai> upu, what software do you use for pcbs?
[20:16] <Upu> Eagle
[20:16] <Upu> the correct term is fight with
[20:16] <fsphil-laptop> +1
[20:17] <ruku> So, are any of you folks doing ballooning for research / business?
[20:17] <Darkside> fun
[20:17] <ruku> Or is it all independent / educational?
[20:18] <Upu> free
[20:18] <Upu> which is over priced
[20:19] <Upu> probably unfair
[20:19] <Upu> its not bad but it can be a little user unfriendly
[20:20] <Upu> cuddykid you awake ?
[20:20] <Darkside> hmmm
[20:20] <Darkside> still no lock
[20:20] <Darkside> this isn't good
[20:20] <Darkside> eroomde: got many spare GPSes?
[20:20] <Darkside> if this isn't a connector issue, i might need to tack on another gps
[20:21] <NigeyS> eek
[20:21] <NigeyS> i can send u a lassen :P
[20:22] <nickolai> ruku, i'm doing mine as a sort of resume builder
[20:22] <Darkside> eew
[20:22] <Darkside> i really need a ubloc module
[20:22] <Darkside> ubllox*
[20:22] <NigeyS> ubollox? lol
[20:22] <Darkside> i'm betting its a connector issue, but i can't be sure atm
[20:23] <Darkside> i'll have to check it out tomorrow
[20:23] <Darkside> heh
[20:23] <Darkside> ublox*
[20:23] <WillDuckworth> i found the ublox needed to outside to get initial lock
[20:23] <WillDuckworth> _be
[20:25] <ruku> nickolai: Yeah I figured, I'm doing the same thing myself :P
[20:26] <nickolai> where are you at ruku?
[20:26] <nickolai> uk/
[20:26] <Darkside> mine is sitting on a windowsill
[20:26] <nickolai> *uk?
[20:26] <Darkside> atm i just want to check that i'm getting data from the GPS
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> depends on the window
[20:26] <Darkside> but i don't have my 3.3v FTDI adapter here
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> some antireflective ones
[20:26] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: its gotten lock in the position it's in before
[20:26] <Laurenceb_> ok
[20:27] <Darkside> i'll do some testing at uni tomorrow
[20:27] <Darkside> and probably end up soldering the module to the board
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> some low emissivity windows reflect gps
[20:27] <fsphil-laptop> it always seems to get the time long before it gets a fix
[20:27] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: yeah, i don't even get the time
[20:27] <Darkside> so i think i have seril coms problems
[20:27] <Darkside> serial*
[20:27] <fsphil-laptop> aye, that's a bad sign
[20:28] <eroomde> Darkside: not I
[20:28] <Darkside> ok
[20:28] <Darkside> i'll have to check it out tomorrow
[20:28] <Darkside> i'll re-solder the connector
[20:28] <Darkside> well, entirely replace it i think
[20:29] <Darkside> switching to a NMEA only GPS will require a small code change
[20:30] <Darkside> nothing i can't easily do though
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[20:34] <Darkside> hmm i wonder how fast sparkfun can get me another module
[20:35] <Darkside> i really wish i brought a backup module...
[20:35] <Randomskk> Darkside: very fast
[20:35] <Randomskk> if you order today with top shipping it'l be with you by.. hmm probably friday
[20:35] <Darkside> yeah maybe friday
[20:35] <Darkside> does anyone else here have any other gps modules?
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> none of the uk distributors have it?
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[20:36] <Darkside> who are the uk distributors?
[20:36] <Randomskk> there are loads of sparkfun uk distributors
[20:36] <Darkside> whats one of them
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> cool components or protopic are the two I know
[20:36] <fsphil-laptop> protopic tends to be the better of the two
[20:36] <Randomskk> click 'distributors' on sparkfun.com
[20:36] <Randomskk> I've used cool components and they were fine
[20:36] <Randomskk> haven't tried protopic
[20:37] <fsphil-laptop> I get my serial cameras from cool components
[20:38] <Darkside> ptotp-pic dont have them in stock
[20:38] <Darkside> cool components dont have them
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[20:38] <fsphil-laptop> ack, typical
[20:39] <futurity> Hi, I've just Upuaut's reply about the conference and the need to add yourself onto the attendees list
[20:39] <futurity> i can't seem to find the attendees list on any of the urls in the email
[20:39] <futurity> anyone able to post the link here?
[20:40] <Darkside> i'm really hoping its a dead cable and not a dead gps
[20:41] <Upu> you're on it Neil
[20:41] <futurity> Cool
[20:42] <futurity> would still be reassuring to see the list though ;)
[20:42] <Upu> will be posting full details soon just getting details
[20:42] <futurity> i must be having a blind day
[20:42] <Darkside> you guys realise there isn't a huge amount of space in the london hackerspace
[20:42] <Upu> Yeah which is why I'm not accepting any more people until jcoxon lets me know the number of people allowed
[20:43] <futurity> Sounds similar to the room we used to monitor a few of James' launches from Chirchil College
[20:43] <ruku> 74lvc is 5 volt tolerant
[20:43] <futurity> Upu: thanks for confirming that i'm on the list though :) Yippee
[20:43] <Upu> futurity I have the list in front of me as I wrote it and trust me you're on it
[20:43] <Upu> I added you last night as I was going back through the mails
[20:44] <fsphil-laptop> if all else fails, I'll sit out in the hallway :)
[20:44] <futurity> cool, been on holiday and not been on the grid for a bit, so i appreciate you adding me. Are there any launches planned? Would like to help track it using my setup
[20:45] <Upu> none that I'm aware of at the moment
[20:45] <Upu> just waiting on NOTAMS again personally
[20:45] <NigeyS> ffs
[20:45] Action: NigeyS stabs altium
[20:45] <futurity> fsphil-laptop: from the sounds of it it may be held in the hallway ;)
[20:46] <Darkside> hmm shiiiiit
[20:46] <Darkside> do i order a GPS now...
[20:46] <futurity> it should be fun, even if its a case of just meeting up and saying hi. on launch days things can get a bit hectic
[20:46] <Darkside> i can probably get one here by friday if i order *now*
[20:47] <Darkside> worst case i end up with another gps unit..
[20:47] <Upu> got some good talks lined up for conference
[20:47] <futurity> fantastic
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[20:47] <NigeyS> Darkside, try coolcomponents they have a fairly reliable next day delivery
[20:48] <Darkside> NigeyS: they dont have the model i want
[20:48] <futurity> i drove to Stevenage to sit in on one of Ed's talks and was very impressed by their associated projects
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[20:48] <NigeyS> ah
[20:48] <futurity> the video footage of their rocket and the sound as it broke the sound barier was great
[20:48] <Darkside> they only have the GS407: http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=379
[20:48] <Darkside> and the connector on that is a bitch
[20:49] <NigeyS> eek, not bloody cheap either
[20:49] <futurity> i'll disappear and leave you to sort out the gps issues. ttfn and thanks again for adding me to the list ;)
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[20:49] <Darkside> yeah
[20:49] <Darkside> i'm thinking i'll go with sparkfun
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[20:50] <Darkside> it should be here on thursday or friday
[20:50] <fsphil-laptop> hmm
[20:50] <fsphil-laptop> silly internets
[20:50] <fsphil-laptop> need to get the tubes cleaned
[20:50] <NigeyS> lol phil
[20:52] <Elwell> Darkside: and lipoly.de only have D2523T or GS407
[20:52] <Darkside> wait
[20:52] <Darkside> they have the 2523
[20:53] <Elwell> 80 euros or something
[20:53] <Darkside> thats what i want
[20:53] <Elwell> http://www.lipoly.de/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=880_2506_2508&products_id=114298
[20:53] <Darkside> CHRIST thats espenxice
[20:53] <Darkside> expensive
[20:54] <Darkside> i'm paying AUD$75 from sparkfun, cs AUD$109 from them
[20:55] <Darkside> anyway, ordering form sparlfun now
[20:55] <Darkside> most expensive shipping i can find lol
[20:55] <Darkside> should be here on friday, or thursday
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> lipoly is good for Europe
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> saves the waiting time from the USA
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> for sparkfun stuff
[20:55] <Darkside> including shipping, its gonna cost the same
[20:55] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: i'm going for the 1-3 day shipping
[20:55] <Darkside> and i know its really fast
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> FedEx?
[20:56] <Darkside> i've had stuff delivered to australia in 3 days before
[20:56] <Darkside> UPS
[20:56] <fsphil-laptop> you always risk getting charged import fees with orders from the US
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> true
[20:56] <Darkside> fsphil-laptop: whats the price limit?
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> had it on two sparkfun deliveries
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> 22 euro in germany
[20:56] <fsphil-laptop> I'm not sure.. they seem to hit random orders
[20:56] <Darkside> and do they hold your parcel?
[20:56] <Darkside> or do they deliver it and get you to pay
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> both
[20:56] <fsphil-laptop> cash on delivery for this one
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> I once had two books below the limit
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> but somehow the package came in an USPS baga
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> *bag
[20:57] <Darkside> fuuu
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> so we had to fetch it and they had to look at it, to see it was below the borderline
[20:57] <Darkside> so theres a chance i'll get charge import fees on it?
[20:57] <Darkside> wtf
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> actually the officer said "It's electronics, right?"
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> he was surprised to see that it was two books
[20:58] <Randomskk> Darkside: fedex is really really really good from sf to uk
[20:58] <Randomskk> like
[20:58] <Randomskk> I've ordered monday night and got it wednesday 9am
[20:59] <Darkside> ok
[20:59] <Darkside> il do fedex then
[20:59] <Darkside> Randomskk: but what about import fees?
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> their cheapest service got here in a week once
[20:59] <fsphil-laptop> was cheaper delivery than some of the uk distributers :)
[20:59] <Randomskk> Darkside: you might get hit, you might not
[20:59] <Darkside> fuck it, i'll try fedex
[20:59] <Randomskk> often with fedex I haven't
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[20:59] <Randomskk> once in a while I get a letter asking for money
[20:59] <Darkside> ugh
[20:59] <Darkside> Randomskk: do they hold you rparcel tho
[20:59] <Randomskk> no
[20:59] <Randomskk> they deliver it superfast
[20:59] <Darkside> good
[20:59] <Darkside> thats fine then
[20:59] <Randomskk> then later might ask for cash
[21:00] <Randomskk> they deliver it so fast. I've had it clear customs in one minute.
[21:00] <Darkside> becaue by the time i get the import fees letter, i'll be back in australia
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:00] <Darkside> and the letter will have gone to the uni of bath :P
[21:00] <Elwell> heh 'longcat is long' -- our new cat stretches himself out on floor before sleeping. v strange beestie
[21:00] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:00] <Darkside> i'km only concerned if they hold the parcel
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah they send a letter with the customs invoice
[21:00] <Darkside> australian customs does that
[21:00] <Elwell> as does swiss
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> here the FedEx parcel stayed in Cologne for a day
[21:00] <Darkside> ok ordering via sparkfun now
[21:01] <Darkside> GPS and 2 cables for it
[21:01] <Elwell> sometimes you get parcel fine, then next day theres an invoice from la poste / ups
[21:02] <Randomskk> I've never had fedex hold the parcel.
[21:02] <Randomskk> and maybe one in five gets a tax invoice
[21:02] <Darkside> ok its still 2:45pm there
[21:02] <Darkside> it might get shipped today
[21:02] <RocketBoy> many couriers charge of the pleasure of collecting tax from you on behalf of HMRC
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> http://marshallbrain.com/million1.htm
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> loool
[21:02] <DanielRichman> fsphil-laptop: just thought I'd give you some advance warning: I'm about to attempt to embed python in dl-fldigi.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> I'm contesting the charges on a fedex parcel ATM.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Grid tie inverter.
[21:02] Action: fsphil-laptop stands back!
[21:03] <DanielRichman> this could go horribly wrong :-)
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> Correctly statedd value of $50 - that's what I paid. 20 quid duty + 10 quid fee
[21:03] <RocketBoy> yeah the £10 fee is for collecting the £20 from you
[21:03] <DanielRichman> should I branch off fsphil/master or jamescoxon/master?
[21:03] <Darkside> seriously, if i end up finding out its just the cable on the GPS, i'm going to be slightly annoyed
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> fsphil/master is the most up to date one atm
[21:04] <RocketBoy> cos they know its going to be hassle and a lot of people don't pay
[21:04] <Darkside> but if i delay until tomorrow to order the GPS, it won't get in here in time
[21:04] <DanielRichman> ok
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[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> why ptho
[21:04] <fsphil-laptop> ar
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> why embed python?
[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> (my dog walked over the keyboard)
[21:05] <DanielRichman> because I've been converted
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[21:05] <fsphil-laptop> lol
[21:06] <Randomskk> also because we have a python library for doing all the couchdb stuff
[21:06] <DanielRichman> it's a habitat related excercise, and while that doesn't necessarily mean that it must be python (and I was originally gonig to do this in C) using a very crude evaulation of the future I think this will be better
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: yeah - but 20 quid VAT on a 34 quid item is a _teeny_ bit much.
[21:06] <DanielRichman> indeed
[21:06] <fsphil-laptop> mmm
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> it's a pretty big dependency though
[21:07] <RocketBoy> yeah - that bit could be wrong - but it could be VAT and import duty (but still seems wrong)
[21:07] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, almost as bad as £9.00 delivery charge on a £14 item !
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> hehe, or £15 delivery for a £4 item ;)
[21:07] <fsphil-laptop> (gaffertape)
[21:07] <Randomskk> fsphil-laptop: happily already available on os x and linux ;P
[21:08] <fsphil-laptop> they actually posted it today for £5
[21:09] <Darkside> hmm the bot is down
[21:09] <Darkside> someone want to restart griffonbot ?
[21:09] <RocketBoy> import duty is typically a few % - but import duty and VAT are payable aganst the sum of the item value and shipping costs
[21:09] <griffonbot> :-(
[21:10] <RocketBoy> which is probably where the £20 came from
[21:10] <DanielRichman> Darkside: is it not reporting a tweet?
[21:10] <Darkside> yep
[21:10] <DanielRichman> bleh.
[21:10] <Darkside> i used the #arhab tag and all
[21:10] <DanielRichman> using namespace std;
[21:10] <DanielRichman> um
[21:10] <DanielRichman> I did not mean to paste that
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: As I understand, only the portion of the shipping costs outside the EU - strictly.
[21:11] <DanielRichman> keywords = [ "#ukhas", "#cusf", "#atlasballoon" ]
[21:11] <DanielRichman> this, Darkside
[21:11] <Darkside> awwwwwwwwww
[21:11] <DanielRichman> #arhab I believe is a place (?) there was a lot of spam :-(
[21:11] <Darkside> well make it follow me!
[21:11] <Darkside> :P
[21:11] <Darkside> @darksidelemm
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: The total sale price was 34.99 - including shipping free. They haven't responded to my email despite it being a couple of weeks - but I got a autoresponse, so I'm not paying.
[21:11] <RocketBoy> SpeedEvil: yes i think - but if its being iported directly into the UK that will probably be about 90%
[21:11] <DanielRichman> :P it follows hashtags. I think you have to hit an extra url to follow people, whereas following extra tags you just add args to the same url
[21:11] <Darkside> pretty much all of my tweets are hab related anyway
[21:12] <Darkside> aww ok
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: Probably.
[21:12] <DanielRichman> sorry :-(
[21:13] <RocketBoy> SpeedEvil; yeah - I cant see how you get £20 on a £34.99 total (shipping + item value)
[21:13] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: did it not break it down into a collection fee and the actual tax?
[21:13] <RocketBoy> SpeedEvil: who are you having the argument with HMRC?
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it's by making up a random value for the item.
[21:14] <Randomskk> collection fee is like £8 or £12
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[21:14] <Randomskk> also generally with couriers if you don't pay and it's not much cash they will send a few angry letters and then just not deliver to you until you pay
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: I mailed fedex with a query, I got an autoresponse saying they'll suspend collection, and no further info
[21:15] <RocketBoy> yeah - I think this is why they charge £8-£12 - its a load of hassle when people query it
[21:16] <Darkside> soo dl-fldigi crashed
[21:16] <Darkside> it seems to do that after a while
[21:16] <RocketBoy> SpeedEvil: know who calculates the tax?
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> RocketBoy: No clue.
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> I imagine it's either fedex, or HMRC.
[21:19] <RocketBoy> yeah - I have a vague feeling it might be HMRC - from stuff thats gone on with a couple of my orders
[21:19] <RocketBoy> is there a customs reference no?
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> I believe so, but I don't have the package to hand.
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> I've kept all the wrapping and stickers.
[21:23] <DanielRichman> fsphil-laptop: we should be able to cook up a stripped down version of python with only the required libraries and then statically link it. That should reduce the file size dramatically
[21:24] <RocketBoy> SpeedEvil: if you can find a customs ref it might be an idea to try them. I'd be interested in anything you find out.
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[21:31] <SpeedEvil> Possibly, yes.
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[21:47] <Laurenceb_> http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> interesting stuff - lots to read
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[21:49] <fsphil-laptop> DanielRichman, that sounds like a good plan
[21:50] <fsphil-laptop> still, possibly overkill. all it really will be doing is reading the payload list and uploading telemetry
[21:56] <Darkside> hmm ok, better get to bed...
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Darkside
[21:58] <fsphil-laptop> mm... 30 more minutes hacking I thinks
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[22:54] <ruku> You all want to see something special? :P
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> ?
[22:54] <ruku> http://i.imgur.com/AkLAW.jpg is what I'm trying to analyze
[22:54] <ruku> Pre-built system, need to convince managers to redesign
[22:55] <ruku> Or at least, I have the very strong feeling I need to convince the managers >__>
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Why is there an isolator in there?
[22:55] <ruku> It gives us +/- 5 volts.
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Why do you need +-5v?
[22:56] <ruku> Fairly efficiently too, I think... At least, in a non-crazy system.
[22:56] <ruku> Sensor runs on it.
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> What sensor?
[22:56] <ruku> Whacko Scientific Inc.
[22:56] <ruku> You can assume the output of the sensor is buffered with op amps.
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> I'd be running the sensor at 10V, non-isolated, and then using an opamp to drop it to the AVR input range.
[22:57] <ruku> I would too...
[22:57] <ruku> But I can't convince the prof. to change the design.
[22:57] <ruku> Or rather, that it needs to be changed.
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> Is that a lithium-ion batter?
[22:58] <ruku> (Well, actually... I found a nice sigma delta adc that takes bipolar signals +/- 5 volts...)
[22:58] <ruku> Yes, I know about that.
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> That it will explode?
[22:58] <ruku> Mhmm.
[22:58] <ruku> Management does too, its "good enough for now".
[22:59] <ruku> But if I can convince them of both problems I can probably get them to make the change.
[22:59] <ruku> One-off device going... to... ...space. o__o;
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> Show them the nice videos of overcharge on youtube
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> You mean a balloon?
[22:59] <ruku> ...yes!
[22:59] <ruku> <__<
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[23:00] <ruku> The thought is, the battery will not run long enough to drop significantly below 3.7 V
[23:00] <ruku> So the solar panels will just top it off if it decides to drop below 3.7...
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> I mean - the panel will over charge it to >>4.2
[23:00] <ruku> Nope, the diodes drop 5 V to 3.7
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> Umm - no.
[23:01] <ruku> Two 0.3's and a 0.7
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> A 5V solar panel is - probably 10 cells in series.
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> In bright sun with no load, it will output about 6.5V
[23:02] <ruku> SpeedEvil: Its an entirely moot point to mgmt atm.
[23:02] <ruku> I already brought it up, they're immovable. I really need to convince them they won't get valid data back.
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> also - there is no such thing as '0.3v', or '0.7V' diodes - the voltage changes quite significantly with current.
[23:02] <ruku> I knoooow. :<
[23:02] <ruku> It's a massive flaw, but I can't win that battle.
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> Put a 4V7 or so zener across the battery, and make it a 'protected' cell, and it's only a bad design.
[23:03] <ruku> Hokay. Lets assume management said ok to that.
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> How long is this to run for?
[23:05] <ruku> Until it explodes.
[23:05] <ruku> Or rather, until it doesn't anymore.
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> What sort of balloon is this on?
[23:05] <ruku> Oh man, I'm far to embarassed to say any more about mission scenarios and explosions ;~;
[23:06] <ruku> Pretend all that isn't happening right now.
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> If you have spare cells, you can do tests
[23:06] <ruku> Ran it for two hours on a flight.
[23:06] <ruku> We got transmissions, but nothing came back. Radio issues. X_X
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> How much does the sensor draw?
[23:07] <ruku> Not much. A milliamp perhaps.
[23:07] <ruku> But remember it's not using the rail splitter.
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> And the isolated regulator doesn't use lots more?
[23:07] <ruku> The AVR is using the rail splitter... ...err, half of it.
[23:08] <ruku> It does indeed work... I'm just not sure how valid our data is.
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> I'd be worried about noise. Isolated SMPS, used to power a differential sensor seems quite insane.
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> At least it needs some caps on the output.
[23:09] <ruku> Its single ended, noise isn't the issue (entirely).
[23:09] <ruku> Though yes, I'd want to plop a nice filter on the output.
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> I'd be tempted to implemet both versions, and test.
[23:11] <ruku> My hands are so tied right now.
[23:11] <ruku> I proposed that as well.
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> :/
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> Good luck - going to sleep.
[23:13] <ruku> haha, thanks mate
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[23:23] <W0OTM> Howdy
[23:23] <W0OTM> got a new video :)
[23:24] <W0OTM> First look at the first flight vehicle for the BallooMerang project.
[23:24] <W0OTM> We are doing flight tests below 30,000ft
[23:24] <W0OTM> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shhhxUDPH9I
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[23:29] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: howdy
[23:31] <natrium42> yo W0OTM
[23:31] <natrium42> sup?
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[23:40] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Marshall
[23:40] <Dan-K2VOL> just about to start our hackerspace weekly getogether
[23:40] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: so if I ping the huddle...
[23:41] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Hibby
[23:41] <hibby> when's connect again?
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[23:45] <Dan-K2VOL> hibby there's a google huddle for meeting stream
[23:45] <Dan-K2VOL> and anyone else
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[23:45] Action: NigeyS huddles hibby
[23:46] <hibby> lol
[23:46] <W0OTM> natrium42: hi
[23:47] <NigeyS> hibby i got the lord of the dance 3d dvd today :D
[23:47] <hibby> aww jesus christ that sounds like th best thing ever
[23:47] <hibby> I spent all last night cranking out the riverdance album on spotify
[23:47] <hibby> MASSIVE
[23:47] <NigeyS> haha i bet, its really good, well worth the money
[23:48] <hibby> also, new nero album is pretty sweet
[23:48] <NigeyS> oo
[23:48] <NigeyS> right need an early night, nn all :)
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 17 2011