highaltitude.log.20110812

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[00:51] <hibby> LINUX THREE POINT OH
[00:51] <hibby> I'M LIVING IN THE FUTURE
[01:34] <natrium42> hehe
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[01:42] <hibby> it's so different
[01:50] <natrium42> suure
[01:51] <hibby> completely new experience for me
[01:51] <hibby> actually, lxde and xorg updated
[01:51] <hibby> so i've got some differences
[01:51] <hibby> like a new background :o
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[02:43] <nickolai> hello all
[02:48] <natrium42> hi
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[02:53] <nickolai> hey natrium42
[02:54] <nickolai> ti govorish po ruski?
[02:56] <manderson21> haha, BK @CAA:89?
[03:00] <natrium42> nickolai: da, konechno :P
[03:01] <nickolai> da, ya rodilsya v rossiye, no i davno uzhe v CShA
[03:01] <natrium42> where in usa?
[03:01] <nickolai> NJ
[03:01] <nickolai> you?
[03:01] <nickolai> o wait
[03:01] <nickolai> ur in canada right?
[03:01] <natrium42> i am in the bay area right now
[03:01] <nickolai> o nice
[03:02] <natrium42> interviewing, but yes, originally from ontario
[03:02] <nickolai> i've seen your website, it was one of the first few i found actually
[03:02] <natrium42> cool :)
[03:02] <manderson21> natrium is the one who told me to come here
[03:02] <manderson21> crazy Russians
[03:02] <nickolai> heh heh
[03:03] <nickolai> this is really a great spot
[03:03] <natrium42> nickolai: so you're planning to do your own launch?
[03:03] <nickolai> Dan-K2VOL directed me to hackerspaces and my life basically hasn't been the same since :)
[03:03] <natrium42> you got the bug :)
[03:03] <nickolai> actually yes, i;ve made a lot of progress and i'm targetting tuesday for launch
[03:04] <natrium42> ah, awesome
[03:04] <natrium42> what's on board?
[03:04] <nickolai> not much, chipkit board for the main computer, inventek GPS and ntx2 transmitter. A still cam and a flipcam for imagery
[03:04] <natrium42> manderson21: you should drop your UAV from a balloon
[03:04] <nickolai> if i can find some temp sensors at the hackerspace i'll throw those on
[03:05] <natrium42> cool
[03:05] <manderson21> from a balloon?
[03:05] <nickolai> i'm actually on because i was wondering about antennas for the payload
[03:05] <natrium42> non-aprs launches are more exciting imo :)
[03:05] <nickolai> what did you use natrium42?
[03:05] <manderson21> what's aprs?
[03:06] <natrium42> automatic packet reporting system
[03:06] <natrium42> nickolai: i haven't flown an ntx2 yet
[03:06] <manderson21> i.e. no GPS?
[03:06] <natrium42> people just use a 1/4 wave with ground radials
[03:06] <manderson21> I do have a telit GSM/GPS module sitting next to me :-)
[03:07] <natrium42> nono, APRS is a network of radios so that you can uplink your position from gps
[03:07] <nickolai> that's kind of what i was wondering, why a 1/4 wave?
[03:07] <nickolai> so u don't need to buy your own receiver for aprs?
[03:07] <natrium42> it's shorter than 1/2 wave i guess, and good enough :)
[03:08] <natrium42> no, for aprs you can just use the network
[03:08] <natrium42> but you need to be licensed
[03:08] <natrium42> as your payload would be a transmitteron ham frequencies
[03:08] <nickolai> ah, damn
[03:09] <natrium42> but you are using a ntx2, so you're fine
[03:09] <natrium42> do you have a radio to pick it up?
[03:09] <nickolai> yea someone at the hackerspace happens to have one they're lending to me
[03:09] <nickolai> but the thing is like 600 bucks
[03:10] <nickolai> i want to find a data solution that's cheaper, and doesn't require a license
[03:10] <natrium42> could use the xtend modules
[03:10] <manderson21> natrium42, I don't think I would be able to communicate with my quadcopter from a balloon drop
[03:10] <natrium42> 1/4 on the payload and yagi on the ground
[03:11] <manderson21> natrium42, unless it's supposed to navigate via GPS
[03:11] <nickolai> do u have any links on the xtend stuff?
[03:11] <nickolai> manderson21: what do you mean?
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[03:12] <natrium42> i believe wb8elk has flown one sucessfully
[03:12] <natrium42> he sometimes comes to this channel, or you could email him
[03:12] <natrium42> i have flown xtend too, but with an omni on the ground, so it went out of range
[03:12] <natrium42> the thing is that they are not that cheap
[03:13] <natrium42> the best option in north america is to get a ham license
[03:13] <natrium42> and some used radio from ebay
[03:15] <natrium42> nickolai: you could try searching ebay for Yaesu FT-790R or Yaesu FT-817(ND)
[03:15] <natrium42> they are nice radios to use with ntx2
[03:15] <nickolai> i have, they're expensive
[03:16] <nickolai> i'm looking at putting together a kit for the average joe to be able to buy and go launch a balloon, and so i can't really tell people to go find their receiver on ebay
[03:16] <natrium42> ah
[03:16] <nickolai> i also think asking them to get a ham radio license is a bit much
[03:16] <manderson21> nickolai, I mean travel through waypoints
[03:16] <natrium42> well, another option is SPOT or a cellphone
[03:17] <natrium42> spot is pretty cheap and reliable
[03:17] <nickolai> manderson21: so what issues would the antennas have? or were you talking about xtend?
[03:17] <natrium42> manderson21: http://www.hicam.com/pro_x2.htm
[03:18] <manderson21> I was referring to natrium42 telling me I should do a balloon drop with my quadcopter, but I don't know how I would control/communicate with it
[03:18] <natrium42> manderson21: xtend would work really well for this
[03:18] <natrium42> you get 9600 baud both ways
[03:19] <manderson21> how far?
[03:20] <natrium42> 40 miles
[03:20] <natrium42> http://www.digi.com/products/wireless-wired-embedded-solutions/zigbee-rf-modules/point-multipoint-rfmodules/xtend-module#overview
[03:20] <nickolai> natrium42: yea a cell phone is an option, but i figure it should have a radio as well
[03:20] <manderson21> sweet jesus
[03:21] <nickolai> since that part of the fun is chasing it, isn't it?
[03:21] <natrium42> yeah
[03:21] <manderson21> $229 for one
[03:22] <natrium42> manderson21: you can borrow mine :P
[03:22] <natrium42> but of course, you might lose them
[03:22] <manderson21> dude, the batteries won't last that long
[03:23] <manderson21> that reminds me, I was about to buy some cheapo $20 chopper on amazon :p
[03:23] <natrium42> manderson21: this canadian dude has dropped a guided glider from a balloon years ago http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/
[03:23] <manderson21> $179 for industrial grade
[03:23] <natrium42> induastrial grade is batter
[03:23] <nickolai> that's not too bad
[03:24] <natrium42> as it's rated for low temp
[03:24] <nickolai> what receivers are good for this one?
[03:24] <manderson21> natrium42, a glider isn't a quadcopter
[03:24] <natrium42> nickolai: you just use two xtend modules
[03:24] <natrium42> the one on balloon with a 1/4 wave, and the ground oone with a 900MHz yagi
[03:25] <nickolai> it looks like it's cheaper to buy a 900mhz receiver
[03:25] <nickolai> remember, this is for a kit so cost is critical
[03:25] <nickolai> it should be as cheap as possible
[03:25] <nickolai> without losing too many features....
[03:25] <manderson21> natrium42, are you suggesting I build a plane instead of a helicopter?
[03:26] <natrium42> nickolai: wb8elk also tested zigbee and had some success
[03:26] <nickolai> manderson21: what sort of project are you working on? do you have any description of it somewhere?
[03:26] <natrium42> but it went out of range
[03:26] <nickolai> i'll take a look at that
[03:26] <manderson21> nickolai, no description, I just want to build a quadcopter :p
[03:26] <nickolai> and work with it at high altitudes?
[03:26] <natrium42> i have been thinking of dropping a gyrocopter
[03:27] <manderson21> at first, I wanted it to carry my dslr for video/pictures, but there's no way that'll happen without spending a lot of money on batteries and the motors to carry the load
[03:27] <manderson21> now, I'm thinking of doing something with a video stream
[03:29] <nickolai> that would be cool
[03:29] <manderson21> yeah, so it's something that would be pretty short range
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[03:29] <manderson21> like 100 ft radius
[03:31] <manderson21> long flight time would be awesome, but I'm not sure how much those batteries would cost
[03:31] <manderson21> natrium42, what's the link for your balloon?
[03:32] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/halo
[03:32] <manderson21> nevermind, found it: http://www.natrium42.com/halo/flight2/
[03:33] <manderson21> natrium42, did it upload pictures while flying or did you grab them afterward?
[03:34] <natrium42> flight1 downlinked pictures in-flight via the xtend
[03:34] <natrium42> flight2 didn't
[03:35] <natrium42> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:halo_flight1
[03:35] <nickolai> how long did it take for a picture to get through?
[03:35] <natrium42> a couple of seconds
[03:35] <natrium42> they were only thumbnails
[03:36] <manderson21> how did you get flight 2 to take video?
[03:37] <natrium42> oh, i just wired to the camera buttons and switched it between picture and video modes
[03:37] <natrium42> nowadays it's better to use a gopro hd camera
[03:38] <nickolai> i'm going to have a kodak zi8 on my flight
[03:38] <nickolai> it only lasts 1h30min on full charge tho, so i want to break into it and be able to turn it on after, say, 30 mins
[03:40] <natrium42> ah, cool
[03:47] <manderson21> natrium42, what would you have done if it had landed in the water? :(
[03:48] <natrium42> maybe it would have floated up eventually
[03:48] <natrium42> there's always plan b
[03:48] <manderson21> XD
[03:48] <nickolai> was it watertight?
[03:48] <natrium42> actually, juxta had his land in the ocean
[03:48] <nickolai> oh really?
[03:49] <natrium42> so he had to swim to retrieve it
[03:49] <nickolai> seriously?
[03:49] <natrium42> one sec, i will link you to pix
[03:49] <manderson21> O_O
[03:50] <manderson21> I would put a note inside with some money and say "please ship to this address"
[03:50] <manderson21> then again, I'm fairly lazy
[03:50] <natrium42> manderson21: http://projecthorus.org/?page_id=1497
[03:57] <manderson21> I'd be too afraid of making one and it landing in an amish farm, then asking them to let me retrieve it
[03:58] <manderson21> plus, I'm a rather shy person
[04:01] <natrium42> manderson21: "finders - keepers"
[04:01] <natrium42> "losers - weepers"
[04:02] <manderson21> :'(
[04:09] <nickolai> what's wrong with the thing landing in an amish farm?
[04:10] <natrium42> you have to ask for permission to retrieve it, any time it lands on private property
[04:11] <manderson21> nickolai, they might think I'm the devil (joking)
[04:11] <natrium42> or who knows, you might get shot in yankeeland
[04:11] <manderson21> I'm too shy
[04:12] <nickolai> i mean obviously with the asking and the private property, but are amish known to be hostile to us electronics-toting, balloon-flying outsiders?
[04:16] <manderson21> I see them in cars all the time around here
[04:16] <manderson21> I'm sure it's fine
[04:16] <nickolai> really?
[04:16] <nickolai> (to the cars thing)
[04:18] <manderson21> yeah, I used to see this doctor (he was pretty much a chiropractor), and he had lots of amish patients
[04:19] <nickolai> hm
[04:19] <manderson21> he also smelled like weed every time I saw him
[04:20] <manderson21> and prescribed sugar pills
[04:23] <nickolai> haha
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[04:24] <manderson21> and that is why I think homeopathy is a crock of shit
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[04:27] <hibby> but the weed's good.
[04:31] <manderson21> I don't smoke
[04:31] <nickolai> what's homeopathy, and how is weed involved?
[04:31] <hibby> was a joke
[04:32] <manderson21> nickolai, placebo "medicine"
[04:32] <nickolai> ok....
[04:33] <manderson21> heavily diluted
[04:33] <manderson21> so much that the main ingredient is virtually non-existent
[04:53] <SamSilver> homeopathy helps with your chakras and sh!t
[04:54] <SamSilver> my fortunr teller told me
[04:54] <SamSilver> fortune even
[04:56] <SamSilver> afk going to read my star sign prediction
[04:56] <natrium42> manderson21: i thought you knew better than going to chiropractic
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[06:51] <SamSilver> helloooo dave
[06:54] <daveake_> Morning :)
[06:57] <Elwell> so, who nicked HTV-2 then?
[07:00] <number10> I think they had problems receiving the telemetry from the NTX2 at those velocities
[07:01] <Elwell> someone should have told em the frequency drifts depending on temperature
[07:01] <SamSilver> Range assets have lost telemetry with HTV2.
[07:02] <Elwell> 'tea lady tripped over the antenna cable'
[07:02] <daveake_> Maybe an XML error in their tracker
[07:03] <Elwell> probably string v float errors in the 'duino code
[07:03] <fsphil> haha
[07:04] <number10> I saw some of the code and noticed a misplaced semicolon while(1);
[07:04] <fsphil> did they ever find it?
[07:05] <Elwell> fsphil: dunno, but I bet the chinese are sending people to help look right now :-)
[07:06] <fsphil> aah, that's nice of them ;)
[07:08] <daveake_> Is there a map showing their chase boats?
[07:09] <Elwell> spacenear.us "Consultancy services" could be onto a winner here
[07:10] <daveake_> Need some new icons. Boats; burning HTV-2 ...
[07:10] <fsphil> I tried drawing a boat icon once, turns out I'm not an artist! ;)
[07:11] <daveake_> Here you go .. http://www.blipfoto.com/entry/925854 :-)
[07:12] <fsphil> oh very nice
[07:12] <fsphil> beats my tee-shirt
[07:13] <daveake_> Drawn in the dark with a blue LED in front of a camera ... takes a bit of practice!
[07:13] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/2982037403/
[07:13] <daveake_> Nice :-)
[07:14] <fsphil> I never got quick enough to finish it before the exposure stopped
[07:14] <daveake_> My first attempt - http://www.blipfoto.com/entry/910393
[07:14] <fsphil> love it
[07:15] <daveake_> And yes, one of our cats is that shape :)
[07:15] <daveake_> Found another one - http://www.blipfoto.com/entry/947794
[07:16] <daveake_> One last one - R/C heli - http://www.blipfoto.com/entry/969958
[07:17] <fsphil> flying an RC helicopter indoors in the dark - that's brave
[07:19] <daveake_> True!
[07:19] <earthshine> o/
[07:20] <fsphil> morning earthshine
[07:22] <earthshine> morning
[07:23] <eroomde> morning all
[07:23] <Darkside> \o
[07:23] <eroomde> Darkside: what time are you starting tomorrow?
[07:23] <Darkside> 7pm is when the talk is scheduled
[07:24] <Upu> hey daveake
[07:24] <Darkside> i'm going to be in the space a while before that though
[07:24] <Upu> Your payload is Cloud1 ?
[07:24] <daveake_> Yes ....
[07:24] <eroomde> Darkside: i mean LSM
[07:25] <Darkside> lsm?
[07:25] <daveake_> .... are you culling payloads? ;)
[07:25] <Darkside> ohhhh
[07:25] <Upu> daveake still considered active ?
[07:25] <Upu> yes I am the slayer of payloads
[07:25] <Upu> phear me
[07:25] <Darkside> eroomde: well i'm supposedlt arriving into london atound 9:14
[07:25] <daveake_> lol
[07:25] <eroomde> Darkside: wow early start
[07:25] <Darkside> and the museum doesn't open until 10am
[07:25] <eroomde> i'm out tonight
[07:25] <eroomde> so that might be a push for me
[07:25] <eroomde> but cool, i might come along midmorning too
[07:25] <eroomde> and meet up
[07:26] <Darkside> yeah i won't get getting into the museum until 10am
[07:26] <Upu> I put you back
[07:26] <daveake_> cloud1 is retired, but maybe you could rename it to be cloud2?
[07:26] <fsphil> or just cloud?
[07:26] <Darkside> i'll probably grab breakfast at the paddington train station, then learn how to use the tube system and get to the museum
[07:26] <daveake_> I don't mind :-)
[07:26] <Upu> done
[07:26] <fsphil> don't let numbers hold you back :)
[07:26] <Darkside> eroomde: can you use IRC mobile
[07:26] <daveake_> TVM
[07:26] <daveake_> lol
[07:26] <eroomde> Darkside: i can
[07:26] <Darkside> cool
[07:27] <eroomde> but there is also an old technology called phoning
[07:27] <Darkside> i'll be sure to check IRC throughout the morning
[07:27] <Darkside> haha
[07:27] <Darkside> but, but.. IRC!
[07:27] <eroomde> that some people use to coordinate meetspace interaction
[07:27] <daveake_> Actually I'm not sure if the next one will be cloud2 (fixed version of cloud1) or buzz1 (pico payload)
[07:27] <eroomde> (sarky in mornings - not had first coffee yet)
[07:27] <Upu> well let us know and we can set up the approriate xml
[07:27] <Upu> spelling
[07:27] <Upu> I need coffee too
[07:28] <daveake_> Will do
[07:28] <Darkside> ok ok... my number is +447709595872
[07:28] <daveake_> :)
[07:28] <daveake_> Ordered some balloons last night
[07:28] <fsphil> prank call time
[07:28] <daveake_> lol
[07:28] <Darkside> whee
[07:29] <Darkside> i'm waiting fsphil ...
[07:29] <number10> using those 36" ones that nige used for your buzz1 daveake?
[07:29] <fsphil> it'll happen when you least expect it Darkside. muhahaa
[07:29] <Darkside> aww
[07:29] <daveake_> No, a latex balloon to see how high it'll go without much weight
[07:29] <eroomde> Darkside: can you pm me your phone no?
[07:30] <Darkside> my number is +447709595872
[07:30] <daveake_> Part of the payload will be a model Buzz Lightyear. At 7g he'll be about 7% of the total!
[07:30] <daveake_> The payload will be shaped like a UFO, for a laugh
[07:30] <Upu> haha
[07:30] <number10> any pics?
[07:31] <daveake_> Not till I start building it!
[07:31] <number10> are you putting one of those 808 cameras ion board
[07:31] <fsphil> oooh flashy coloured LEDs?
[07:31] <eroomde> Darkside: ta
[07:32] <daveake_> Little camera - yes
[07:32] <eroomde> erm, i don't want to put 'darkside' in my phone
[07:32] <daveake_> LED - maybe :)
[07:32] <eroomde> cos i'm not in diehard 4
[07:32] <daveake_> Buzz after his maiden flight in cloud1 - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/P1020997-768x1024.jpg
[07:32] <fsphil> we should make a payload shaped like the HTV-2
[07:32] <Darkside> eroomde: Mark Jessop
[07:32] <eroomde> ta
[07:33] <daveake_> I really wanted to do an Apollo capsule for cloud1, but didn't have the time
[07:33] <eroomde> Darkside: texted you to check
[07:34] <number10> is that cider you have Buzz drinking?
[07:34] <Darkside> eroomde: got it
[07:34] <daveake_> Champagne for the helpers :)
[07:35] <daveake_> Those "glasses" are small ... Buzz is only about 3cm tall
[07:36] <fsphil> I hope the guys helping me next time are not here... they might be expecting Champagne!
[07:37] <eroomde> we have an emergency bottle of champagne in the boot during chases
[07:37] <eroomde> tactical landowner placation
[07:37] <fsphil> sheesh, this should be in the to-do list :)
[07:37] <eroomde> usually don't need to deploy it but occassionally it helps
[07:37] <Darkside> hahah
[07:37] <Darkside> we've never required it
[07:37] <eroomde> we did once
[07:37] <number10> good idea eroomde
[07:37] <eroomde> ukhas 1 launch for whoever remembers that
[07:38] <number10> can you land the next one in my garden please
[07:38] <eroomde> :)
[07:38] <Darkside> targeted landings would be good fun
[07:38] <daveake_> 3 essentials for after the payload is recovered - 1-champagne, 2-glasses, 3-bag to hold the stinking remains of the latex balloon
[07:39] <Darkside> drop the balloon when the predicted landing site falls within a certain area
[07:39] <eroomde> daveake_: number 3 is often overlloked and a good point
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[07:39] <daveake_> I was amazed how bad it was. Good job there happened to be a bag in the boot!
[07:39] <Darkside> you get used to the smell
[07:39] <daveake_> hmmmm
[07:40] <fsphil> I solved that by landing in yorkshire
[07:40] <daveake_> lol
[07:40] <eroomde> usually for dawn launches you need a big hot breakfast
[07:40] <eroomde> in a thermos picnic bag
[07:40] <eroomde> everyone is cream crackered after an allnighter of hard work ands launching and chasing
[07:40] <eroomde> for nova 7 we had such an epic chase
[07:41] <eroomde> we just launched at 4am and started chasing and chasing and chasing, i was just going where the radio ops in the back told me
[07:41] <daveake_> Good thinking. We supplied bacon butties before the launch, and various snacks for after the recovery
[07:41] <eroomde> i got out my iphone to see where we were and it was like f*ing manchester
[07:41] <daveake_> lol
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[07:41] <eroomde> a long long way from home
[07:41] <fsphil> oops
[07:42] <fsphil> did you get it back?
[07:42] <daveake_> We got lucky on that - 19 miles (25 by road) from home
[07:42] <eroomde> thankfully we had lots of coffee and hot sausages in the boot
[07:42] <eroomde> fsphil: yep
[07:42] <eroomde> the cameras failed
[07:42] <Darkside> eroomde: thats a long chase!
[07:42] <fsphil> ah man
[07:43] <eroomde> fsphil: this is all that came of nova 7
[07:43] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621752425980/
[07:43] <Darkside> almost beats soe of ours :P
[07:43] <Darkside> some*
[07:43] <eroomde> but we tried to get dawn again 2 weeks later
[07:43] <eroomde> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_quarter.jpg
[07:43] <daveake_> I was thinking of a dawn launch for cloud2
[07:44] <Darkside> eroomde: oooooooooo
[07:44] <Darkside> pretty
[07:44] <daveake_> That's such a good picture
[07:44] <fsphil> I could never do a dawn launch-- I'm so not a morning person
[07:44] <daveake_> I am. Mrs Dave isn't.
[07:44] <fsphil> a 11am launch is tricky enough :)
[07:44] <daveake_> This "36km limit" ... has anyone tried over-filling the balloon and venting gradually at altitude to stop it bursting?
[07:44] <fsphil> an*
[07:45] <eroomde> daveake_: yes
[07:45] <daveake_> and ...?
[07:45] <eroomde> it still went into a float
[07:45] <daveake_> damn
[07:45] <fsphil> I think it'll need something lighter than latex
[07:45] <eroomde> daveake_: i'm putting together a sensor package to go in the balloon neck
[07:45] <Darkside> don't you need an exponentially greater amount of gas to get higher?
[07:45] <eroomde> we're going to get to the bottom of what's causing this
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[07:45] <daveake_> It is a strange effect
[07:46] <number10> how long does it tend to float for?
[07:46] <Darkside> eroomde: couldn't you just stuff a badgercub inside a balloon?
[07:46] <eroomde> more nova 8: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621752577188/
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[07:46] <Darkside> wrap it in a bit of bubble wrap
[07:46] <eroomde> Darkside: it's more the instrumentation
[07:46] <daveake_> In theory you just need a big balloon, light payload, and just enough gas to rise, but obviously in practice something else is going on
[07:46] <Darkside> pressure sensor?
[07:46] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[07:46] <eroomde> needs sensitive differential and absolute pressures
[07:46] <Darkside> ahh
[07:46] <daveake_> very sensitive
[07:46] <eroomde> well, i *think* that's what we need to prove or disprove a few of the hypotheses
[07:47] <eroomde> but i am now atmospheric expert of thermodynamics bod
[07:47] <eroomde> or*
[07:47] <eroomde> no*
[07:47] <daveake_> :)
[07:47] <Darkside> eroomde: one more
[07:47] <Darkside> bod - ?
[07:47] <fsphil> lol
[07:47] <eroomde> attempt 2: I am no atmospheric expert or thermodynamics bod
[07:47] <eroomde> bod = person
[07:47] <Darkside> oh
[07:47] <daveake_> or typist? ;)
[07:48] <eroomde> hopeless typist
[07:48] <eroomde> must learn to touch type
[07:48] <Darkside> ok back in a bit, better get ready for work
[07:48] <daveake_> I'm hopless to
[07:48] <eroomde> me too
[07:48] <eroomde> i'll return as edmoore
[07:48] <Darkside> me thee
[07:48] Action: fsphil hugs xchat's spell checker
[07:48] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3741598895/in/set-72157621752577188/
[07:48] <eroomde> lol memories
[07:48] <eroomde> this is how i spend my 3ams
[07:48] <Darkside> WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING THE BALLOON
[07:49] <eroomde> in shorts
[07:49] <fsphil> better than the way a lot of people spend 3am
[07:49] <eroomde> because it's fine to touch them
[07:49] <eroomde> also i am holding the fill rig
[07:49] <eroomde> iain is touching the balloon
[07:49] <Darkside> heh
[07:49] <Darkside> doesn't it damage them?
[07:49] <Darkside> and make them burst earlier
[07:50] <eroomde> i think it makes v little difference compared to everything else
[07:50] <eroomde> like manufacturing defects
[07:50] <eroomde> or age
[07:50] <Darkside> ah ok
[07:50] <eroomde> or UV
[07:50] <daveake_> We used latex gloves. The first few gloves broke immediately which just shows how old the box is
[07:50] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[07:50] <eroomde> all i seem to do in hab photos is hold balloons
[07:50] <Darkside> we use cotton gloves
[07:51] <Darkside> anyway, back in a bit
[07:51] <fsphil> someone has to eroomde :)
[07:51] <eroomde> a stand
[07:51] <eroomde> i'm going to make a stand
[07:51] <eroomde> then i can retire
[07:51] <daveake_> Like my role the one time I've been on a sailing boat in a race. Ballast.
[07:51] <eroomde> ok must get to work
[07:51] <fsphil> haha
[07:51] <eroomde> lol daveake_
[07:52] <daveake_> Didn't even know it was a race till the start gun went off!
[07:52] <fsphil> you thought it was pirates?
[07:52] <daveake_> I thought it was a gentle sail around the harbour!
[07:52] <fsphil> I hope someone else launches in NI soon, I'd like to attend a launch and not be in a panic getting everything ready
[07:52] <daveake_> :)
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[07:53] <daveake_> I want to help track. Only tried once (aside from my own launch) and didn't get even one complete packet
[07:54] <fsphil> I had similar success the first time
[07:54] <number10> is there a lanch from EARS around the 20th
[07:55] <Upu> the two balloons we launched for James May were "fingered"
[07:55] <Upu> James was shouted at for touching them without gloves
[07:55] <number10> hey Upu how come canary was called that and then changed to budgie
[07:55] <fsphil> we don't use gloves, though I try to keep hands away from it. if it's windy it's difficult though
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[07:56] <Upu> HI number10, complex but basically the TV company wanted it to be called Budgie
[07:56] <Upu> and Rob had called it Canary
[07:57] <Upu> which resulted in some last minute code hacking to fix as we didn't have the ability to program the payload on site
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[07:59] <WillDuckworth> just a quick one- think my payload XMLs have disappeared... anyone able to check?
[07:59] <WillDuckworth> wdhab and wdhabmini
[07:59] <Upu> yeah sure
[07:59] <Upu> I'll fix
[08:00] <fsphil> ah, that explains them Upu :)
[08:00] <WillDuckworth> cheers ;)
[08:00] <Upu> fixed WillDuckworth sorry we did some clearning up
[08:00] <WillDuckworth> thought they'd gone walkabout
[08:00] <Upu> well by we I mean I
[08:00] <fsphil> Upu-- would it help to put some <!-- comments --> into the xml to help identify them?
[08:00] <Upu> yeah would be great so we know who owns what
[08:00] <Upu> just refresh payloads WillDuckworth
[08:00] <fsphil> or even a proper xml field
[08:01] <Upu> I'll speak to Randomskk about it this evening
[08:01] <daveake_> good idea
[08:01] <WillDuckworth> excellent - cheers Upu, can you tweak wdhabmini to be 425 shift and the callsign set to WDHABmini - good idea with an <owner> type tag
[08:01] <fsphil> could have a comment or title field, even display the info in dl-fldigi
[08:02] <daveake_> How do chase cars get added?
[08:02] <Upu> done WillDuckworth
[08:03] <Upu> daveake_ http://ukhas.org.uk/general:chase_car_trackers
[08:03] <WillDuckworth> excellent - i'm nearly ready to roll :)
[08:03] <Upu> also dl-fldigi has the ability to do it with a local GPS but I'm not sure how to get that working
[08:03] <fsphil> just select the gps serial device, it should 'just work'
[08:04] <fsphil> though I think there's an issue with certain gps devices that rocketboy found
[08:04] <Upu> haha
[08:04] <daveake_> The latter was what was thinking of - I have a USB GPS for my netbook.
[08:04] <fsphil> worked on mine :)
[08:04] <daveake_> That said, I have an Android so I can try that one too
[08:04] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GlobalSat-BU353-BU-353-SiRFIII-USB-GPS-Receiver-UK-New-/360371988902?pt=UK_CE_GPS_Accessories_Software_ET&hash=item53e7d829a6
[08:04] <Upu> something like that ?
[08:04] <WillDuckworth> good stuff daveake_ let me know how you go with it ;)
[08:05] <daveake_> Upu that's the one I have
[08:05] <daveake_> WillDuckworth will do :)
[08:05] <fsphil> ooh snap
[08:05] <Upu> oh let me know if it works
[08:05] <fsphil> I think that'll work fine
[08:05] <fsphil> had it on the dashboard, kept sliding off
[08:06] <daveake_> I also have an RS232 one, so I could use that. Which reminds me, I have a car PC which needs finishing off
[08:06] <SpeedEvil> http://idle.slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=story&sid=11/08/04/1420201
[08:06] <daveake_> Just need to mount the LCD, then I can install dl-fldigi and hook up to my AR8000
[08:06] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of small figures going very high
[08:06] <Upu> yeah saw that
[08:06] <Upu> just copying my idea
[08:07] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/avanaught.jpg
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[08:08] <fsphil> someone should fly a nyan cat
[08:08] <daveake_> Google did the same with some little Android toy robots. In once video, when the balloon bursts, the flapping nylon whisks the robot off to a fall to death!
[08:08] edmoore (52101b73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.16.27.115) joined #highaltitude.
[08:08] <Upu> fsphil yeah with a big speaker playing the tune all the way up
[08:08] <fsphil> eek, so google *are* evil!
[08:08] <daveake_> :)
[08:08] <fsphil> lol
[08:08] <Upu> the Avanaught is going inside safely
[08:09] <Upu> next flight I'm going to try replicate the famous bruce mccandless picture :)
[08:09] <Upu> http://www.hilaryshepherd.com/rantsnraves/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bruce-mccandless-in-space.jpg
[08:10] <daveake_> It's at 0:52 in this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSoPJevJyeE.
[08:10] <Randomskk> Upu: habitat flight docs have a metadata field, a flight name field, a project name, etc
[08:10] <daveake_> Upu - yes, I want to go for that one with SpaceTed :)
[08:10] <Upu> ok Randomskk might be helpful just to have a payload owner
[08:10] <Randomskk> current ETA for getting habitat doing all the actual parsing and uploading to spacenear.us is this weekend
[08:10] <Upu> oh cool ok
[08:10] <Upu> see Robs overlays ?
[08:11] <Randomskk> yea, they're neat
[08:11] <Upu> on the predictor
[08:11] <Upu> yep
[08:11] <Upu> ok I have to shoot
[08:11] <Upu> real work to do
[08:11] <Randomskk> seeya
[08:11] <Randomskk> haha same
[08:11] <Upu> any more "missing payloads" they are down ./oldxml
[08:11] <Upu> bbl
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[08:14] <cheater_> hi i heard you guys talk about cloud computing
[08:15] Action: cheater_ looks at SpeedEvil and wonders if he was tricked.
[08:15] <SpeedEvil> Browse round the wiki, it's got fun bits of veroboard in space.
[08:15] <SpeedEvil> (for various definitions of space)
[08:21] <cheater_> heheh brb
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[08:27] <cheater_> SpeedEvil, so high is high altitude?
[08:27] <cheater_> how many km above sea level?
[08:27] <SpeedEvil> The balloons here tend to get to around 30km
[08:27] <cheater_> wow nice
[08:30] <edmoore> we did decide that amazon could go screw themselves when we unveiled our zigmee mesh of little balloons to deploy in a storm cell
[08:30] <edmoore> *that* would be distributed cloud computing
[08:30] <edmoore> not some naff thing in an air conditioned box in the middle of nowhere
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[08:38] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[08:53] Action: fsphil is doing VB6 code .. kill me now
[08:56] <Darkside> ouch
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[08:58] <fsphil> there is sadly quite a lot of it here
[08:59] <fsphil> whoever wrote it doesn't believe in consistent indentation
[08:59] <daveake_> VB? Ouch! Haven't had to dirty myself with any VB for years, happily :)
[09:01] <fsphil> I'll write something in python later to balance it out
[09:02] <daveake_> I think the balance is one line of VB to at least of 100 of python :)
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[09:08] <fsphil> harsh, but fair
[09:09] <DanielRichman> rjharrison: I like the NOTAMs overlay. It looks really simple to put in. Where'd you get the KML from?
[09:14] <Darkside> woot
[09:14] <Darkside> my universal air order arrived
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[09:19] <Elwell> so good you said it twice :-)
[09:20] <Darkside> yes
[09:20] <Darkside> :P
[09:24] <rjharrison> DanielRichman, notaminfo
[09:24] <rjharrison> I'm in the process of talking to the site owner about aranging a feed
[09:25] <rjharrison> Thinking 6am daily feed with the ability to toggle various zones and notams
[09:26] <edmoore> did you see my email?
[09:26] <rjharrison> oh not yet
[09:26] <rjharrison> Yep
[09:26] <edmoore> i think it would be better if we could just display what is local to a predicted trajectory
[09:26] <rjharrison> edmoore, plan to filter on launch, land and path
[09:26] <edmoore> and at the time of the forecast
[09:27] <edmoore> cool yep
[09:27] <rjharrison> That was just a first step to see if it was possible
[09:27] <rjharrison> The restrictions are usefull too not just the NOTAMS
[09:28] <DanielRichman> that's cool. Is it more compilicated than a daily cronjob to mirror the file?
[09:28] <rjharrison> no its only 167k
[09:30] <rjharrison> I'm hoping to get the DB though as it will make parsing for paths / locations easier for a given launch window
[09:30] <edmoore> we'll need to implement a atmospheric data cache too
[09:30] <rjharrison> To save pulling from noaa everytime?
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[09:30] <edmoore> rjharrison: fazackerly
[09:30] <edmoore> it should take 1s really to do a pred
[09:31] <edmoore> it used to back in the day
[09:31] <DanielRichman> the predictor does cache data
[09:31] <DanielRichman> it just doesn't preload it
[09:31] <edmoore> well fine. the effect is the same
[09:31] <edmoore> it takes too long
[09:32] <DanielRichman> we could look through predictions in the past and preload data for common places
[09:32] <edmoore> i think it should just grab all of the uk when the new models come out
[09:32] <edmoore> the 00Z, 06Z, 12Z etc
[09:32] <DanielRichman> haha, fair enough
[09:33] <rjharrison> Given that my coding skills are being superceeded these days shall I take on the job of rolling the NOTAMS into HABHUB pred. With some toggel options?
[09:33] <edmoore> yeah - maybe something that can take a predictor output and construct a notmal kml from it
[09:33] <edmoore> notam*
[09:34] <edmoore> notam/restricted/whatever
[09:34] <rjharrison> Yep the other stuff basically
[09:34] <rjharrison> is pred output kml?
[09:34] <edmoore> maybe a huristic to stop it going 'alert! you are launching from a notam zone!' which of course has to be the case
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> Don't NOTAMS have a floor altitude?
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> Which may not be the ground.
[09:35] <rjharrison> Yep I don't plan to issue wanings just show the notams inforce around launch land and path +- a bi
[09:35] <rjharrison> t
[09:35] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil, yes they do
[09:36] <edmoore> sounds cool
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> VEry cool.
[09:37] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil, were looking to improve on this mess. Which cam about from playing last night.
[09:37] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/habhub/cusf-standalone-predictor/predict/
[09:39] <rjharrison> I have had some issues with this loading everytime. Seems to need a refresh sometimes
[09:39] <SpeedEvil> oh - right
[09:39] <SpeedEvil> diddn't load first time here either
[09:39] <rjharrison> Might be to do with the caching for the page
[09:40] <fsphil> has worked ok here, likely luck though
[09:40] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil, did it work the second time?
[09:40] <SpeedEvil> yes
[09:40] <rjharrison> Hum might be the size of the KML
[09:40] <SpeedEvil> I have the UK covered in exclamation marks.
[09:40] <rjharrison> Yep if you zoom right in it's better
[09:40] <fsphil> can probably shrink the icon when zoomed out
[09:41] <rjharrison> Lots of info on restricts/NOTAMS
[09:41] <fsphil> clicking on the area seems to be enough anyway, the icon might not be necessary
[09:42] <WillDuckworth> excellent work
[09:42] <fsphil> I'd hate to be a pilot, that's a lot !
[09:42] <fsphil> not so bad here and scotland
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> There are lots of randoms.
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> 'please don't overfly our horses'
[09:48] <Laurenceb> thats live NOTAMS?
[09:48] <Laurenceb> heh Churchill is there
[09:49] <fsphil> ears too
[09:51] <Laurenceb> interesting
[09:51] <Laurenceb> someone is flying high altitude kites
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> how high?
[09:52] <Laurenceb> only 2000ft
[10:14] <edmoore> wierdos
[10:14] <edmoore> or doing some kind of makani thing
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[10:42] <Laurenceb> just saw a van with 'mobile TV retuning lessons, £30' on the side
[10:42] <Darkside> lol
[10:44] <number10> looks like a buisness that will only last a few days
[10:45] <cuddykid> typical - if I don't chase up the notam it never arrives!
[10:46] <fsphil> There's hope for my "Remote control operation lessons" then!
[10:46] <cuddykid> lol
[10:47] <daveake_> How about lessons on "How to set up a Canon to run an intervalometer script, with particular attention to switching off standby mode and not saving as RAW"?
[10:47] <fsphil> man, grammar on the internet is awful. next forum I setup it'll have a mandatory english test for registering
[10:47] Action: fsphil signs up to that course
[10:47] <daveake_> Me too :-)
[10:48] <daveake_> Got it right once, then forgot when it came to doing it for the second time ...
[10:48] <fsphil> the raw thing annoyed me for ages
[10:48] <daveake_> Yep. Wasted some Lithiums on that one
[10:50] <cuddykid> oh, bloody hell& typical, out of office auto reply!
[10:50] <cuddykid> don't think he can afford to have time off!
[10:50] <daveake_> lol
[10:51] <cuddykid> don't think this notam will ever turn up!
[10:51] <daveake_> At least that means I don't have to try to get my application in today ... might as well leave it till next week now.
[10:51] <cuddykid> good job the predictions aren't very good.. and still have a fair amount of work to do on payload
[10:51] <cuddykid> yeah
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[10:53] <edmoore> daveake_: where are you based?
[10:54] <daveake_> A few miles NW of Newbury in Berks
[10:54] <daveake_> Why.................?
[10:55] <edmoore> you'd be welcome to toodle over to cambridge iuw
[10:55] <edmoore> to launch there
[10:55] <edmoore> if there's someone from cusf around, which there usually is!
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[10:57] <daveake_> "toodle" ... :)
[10:57] <Laurenceb> interesting
[10:57] <cuddykid> wooo.. radios are working :D
[10:57] <Laurenceb> just reading saturn5 manual - imu runs at 25hz
[10:58] <daveake_> Need to get at least one of the payloads done first. Quite busy at the mo.
[10:58] <daveake_> 25Hz ... is that the cycle time reading all the sensors?
[10:59] <daveake_> Don't tell me it's the clock speed :)
[10:59] <Laurenceb> cycle time
[11:00] <Laurenceb> someone linked the pdf on here a few days ago
[11:00] <Laurenceb> its using a gimbal
[11:00] <Laurenceb> but the core guidance and control was digital
[11:03] <fsphil> cuddykid, don't be silly, the radios are not working. it's all in your head
[11:04] <cuddykid> lol
[11:04] <fsphil> uh-oh, looks like the talk I'm doing is two months earlier than expected
[11:05] <cuddykid> can someone explain the need for this line when storing characters in a string? -> inData[index] = '\0'; // Null terminate the string
[11:05] <fsphil> the null marks the end of the string
[11:06] <fsphil> when you append a character to a string, it over-writes the null - so that line probably adds a new one. difficult to tell without the context
[11:06] <cuddykid> ahh right, I'll leave it then! :)
[11:06] <fsphil> strings that are missing a null can cause "bad things"
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[11:10] <cuddykid> ooo lol
[11:11] <fsphil> or more specifically, buffer overflows
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[11:20] <cuddykid> hmm, still can't get this to work as I would like it to! Can someone briefly scan over this code please :) - http://pastebin.com/B2FLev4B
[11:20] <cuddykid> basically - what I want to do is.. "if the string received is "hello" then turn led on" !
[11:23] <daveake_> You might want to check what strcmp does, for a start :)
[11:24] <daveake_> Returns 0 (aka FALSE) when the strings are identical
[11:24] <daveake_> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/clibrary/cstring/strcmp/
[11:25] <cuddykid> ahhh, silly me :)
[11:25] <cuddykid> thanks davekae_
[11:25] <cuddykid> *daveake_
[11:26] <daveake_> strcmp("daveake", "davekae") != 0
[11:26] <daveake_> Blimey, now I'm doing C jokes. There's no hope.
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[11:28] <edmoore> jesus
[11:28] <RocketBoy> yes
[11:28] <edmoore> you have to respect a systems programming language that leaves string manipulation as an exercise for the reader
[11:29] <edmoore> hello steve
[11:30] <daveake_> Indeed. It saves people from using assembler, I guess.
[11:30] <edmoore> is there an ears for spet?
[11:30] <edmoore> spet*
[11:30] <edmoore> sept*
[11:31] <RocketBoy> sounds like ther will be - the crops are mostly in
[11:31] <edmoore> ok cool
[11:31] <edmoore> rocket time
[11:31] <rjharrison> hey RocketBoy
[11:32] <RocketBoy> just a heads up - bristol uni will be launching their payload from EARS tomorrow.
[11:32] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: yo
[11:33] <fsphil> standard tracker RocketBoy?
[11:33] <RocketBoy> yeah - my old XABEN gear
[11:33] <rjharrison> RocketBoy, have sent email to notaminfo waiting for reply. Hoping to get SQL dump which would be cool
[11:33] <RocketBoy> :-)
[11:33] <fsphil> nice, will setup my radio. what time roughly?
[11:33] <RocketBoy> I recon about 10:00am
[11:34] <RocketBoy> not very high - about 20Km
[11:34] NigelMoby (~nigel@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:34] <rjharrison> RocketBoy, have they made the payload then and you're providing tracking?
[11:34] <RocketBoy> yep
[11:34] <rjharrison> Anything special? Don't tell me it's a camera
[11:34] <fsphil> ah, then I'm unlikely to hear much
[11:35] <fsphil> can never have enough pictures of clouds rjharrison
[11:35] <RocketBoy> actually I know very little about the payload as yet
[11:35] <daveake_> lol
[11:35] <rjharrison> 22kg monster coming your way then :-)
[11:35] <daveake_> My wife's maiden name was Cloud ....
[11:35] <RocketBoy> except its a bit over 1kg
[11:36] <edmoore> 21kg over 1kg?
[11:36] <RocketBoy> I put it in a norfolk broads landing
[11:36] <RocketBoy> which will be "interesting"
[11:37] <daveake_> Take an inflatable dinghy
[11:38] <edmoore> a quadcopter
[11:38] <edmoore> with a grappling hook
[11:38] <cuddykid> hmm, still not working :(
[11:39] <RocketBoy> an excellent opportunity to justify the purchase of a hovercraft
[11:39] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/Ph35Xf5D
[11:40] <cuddykid> is there a way to start storing chars in string when the char received is "h" then stop when char received is "o" ?
[11:40] <fsphil> you might be better having some kind of clear character, like $
[11:40] <fsphil> clear the buffer on receipt of an $
[11:40] <fsphil> then send it $hello
[11:41] <cuddykid> good point, will try and implement :)
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[11:41] <daveake_> and echo those characters back to make sure your baud rate is right and the software uart is keeping up
[11:41] <fsphil> also solves your other problem of when your buffer fills up, it stops working
[11:41] <daveake_> inded
[11:41] <daveake_> (buffer full in "inded")
[11:42] <cuddykid> however, how would it know when to stop storing data, surely it would just keep looping and clearing every time it received "$"
[11:42] <fsphil> soon as your strcmp works
[11:43] <fsphil> the $ clears it, you send "hello" .. the buffer will only contain "hello" so your strcmp will find a match
[11:44] <cuddykid> fsphil, would the strcmp bit need to be in the while serial.available bit then?
[11:44] <NigelMoby> Eek softserial
[11:44] <cuddykid> lol
[11:44] <NigelMoby> Afternoon BTW :p
[11:44] <fsphil> cuddykid, would do no harm. re-testing the buffer without adding anything to it is harmless but wasteful
[11:45] <cuddykid> will do some messing about, thanks :)
[11:45] <fsphil> "morning" NigelMoby ;)
[11:45] <NigelMoby> Ello dudey
[11:46] Action: NigelMoby waits for postman
[11:46] <codetiger> Finally, I ordered everything (Balloons, Parachutes, Radiometrix NTX2) and waiting for them to arrive. Dreaming to reach 120K feet and being the first person from my country
[11:46] <NigelMoby> Good stuff codetiger :)
[11:46] <NigelMoby> What country ?
[11:46] <codetiger> India
[11:47] <NigelMoby> Ooo great! Which part you in?
[11:47] <codetiger> @NigelMoby are you going to send me a link showing some Indians already did that... :)
[11:47] <codetiger> Chennai
[11:48] <NigelMoby> Lol nope. I can't think of an Indian launch offhand...
[11:49] <codetiger> I spend almost 30% in shipping cost
[11:49] <edmoore> ouch!
[11:49] <NigelMoby> Blimey
[11:50] <edmoore> 120,000ft would be very impressive
[11:50] <codetiger> And it took me 2 yrs to find the right place to buy these stuff.
[11:50] <codetiger> @edmoore Like everyone, I dream high :)
[11:51] <codetiger> Let me give you a summery: Am planning to keep my payload less than 2.5 kgs
[11:51] <fsphil> you use imperial measurements in India?
[11:51] <codetiger> and my balloon is 1600g from Hwoyee
[11:52] <edmoore> the record for the uk is currently held by cusf at 36206 m (118785 ft)
[11:52] <edmoore> codetiger: if you want to be going >36km, try and keep the payload even lighter
[11:52] <codetiger> @fsphil not always imperial
[11:52] <edmoore> maybe 1.5 total if possible
[11:53] <edmoore> but equally there are some interesting phenomena around 36km that mean that it's too simplistic to say 'if you want to go high as possible, make your payload as light as possible'
[11:53] <codetiger> 1.5 should be possible from what I've planned. But am yet to decide on the battery and Cameras. So will try to keep it to the best possible
[11:54] <edmoore> we (well, I at least) don't really know yet why some balloons go from ascending to floating at around 36km
[11:54] <edmoore> we have ideas, but no data to prove or disprove them yet
[11:55] <codetiger> Meanwhile how much should I fill the balloon. Some ppl say fill it less to let it expand more. And some ppl say they filled it very less and it came back soon.
[11:55] <edmoore> this is a question that we can't really answer yet
[11:55] <edmoore> because the cause of this floating is unknown
[11:55] <edmoore> in general: more gas = fast ascent and lower burst
[11:55] <edmoore> less gas = lower ascent and higher burst
[11:56] <codetiger> :) so does 1600g and 1000g ballons make any difference in height
[11:56] <edmoore> yes
[11:56] <edmoore> because a bigger balloon van get to a larger volume before bursting
[11:56] <edmoore> so, with everything else being equal, the gas inside can get to a lower pressure, which happens the higher you go
[11:58] <edmoore> *however*, we have found that very light payloads with not much gas inside big balloons often seem to stop at about 35/36km, when the calculations say they should carry on to 37 or 38km
[11:58] <edmoore> instead the slow down and start to floart
[11:58] <edmoore> float*
[11:58] <edmoore> this is very interesting and something that we need to investigate more
[11:59] <codetiger> Interesting information
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[12:00] <codetiger> So how do you guys fill. or meassure the balloon filling? You measure pressure?
[12:00] <codetiger> or the volume of the gas?
[12:00] <edmoore> we measure lift
[12:01] <edmoore> so, lets say we calculate that with our 1600g balloon and 1.5kg payload, we need 500g of 'free' lift
[12:01] <codetiger> oh so that makes it easy. Coz I was afraid if I should buy or rent some measuring device.
[12:01] <edmoore> so we need the pull at the neck of the balloon to be 1.5kg + 500g = 2kg
[12:01] <edmoore> so we put 2kg of stuff in a bag and hang it from a filler tube that is filling the balloon
[12:02] <edmoore> once the balloon can only just begin to lift this ballast bag, we know we have enough helium
[12:02] <daveake_> I just filled a cola bottle with water to the calculated weight, then tied that to the balloon neck temporarily and inflated till it was just held off the ground. Take the filler weight into account when you do that.
[12:02] <edmoore> once the balloon is tied, you need to seal it
[12:02] <daveake_> Helps
[12:02] <daveake_> :)
[12:03] <edmoore> here is a very good demonstration of a good way of doing that by RocketBoy: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sealing_the_balloon?s[]=balloon
[12:04] <daveake_> That looks pretty much like what I did, except I put the tape on the balloon neck first before any string or cable ties. I was paranoid about damaging the latex.
[12:05] <codetiger> @edmoore Thanks for the link. Good one. What else do I do to make it fly higher.
[12:05] <fsphil> tape might do more damage
[12:05] <edmoore> the necks are usually pretty robust
[12:05] <daveake_> ok
[12:05] <codetiger> 1) I fill it right
[12:06] <fsphil> although I always tape over the cable ties before launching
[12:06] <codetiger> 2) Keep payload at minimal weight
[12:06] <edmoore> codetiger: well, if you want to get above 36km then I can't help you - none of us have figured out what is causing the floating and how to beat it!
[12:06] <edmoore> but if you want to get to about 35, just got for a big balloon and a light payload
[12:06] <edmoore> aim for an ascent rate of about 3-4m/s
[12:06] <cuddykid> hmm.. still not getting anywhere :(
[12:06] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/FUpB7pTf
[12:06] <edmoore> that's all there is to it
[12:07] <edmoore> codetiger: there is a burst calculator built into habhub.org/predict
[12:07] <cuddykid> all I'm seeing on serial monitor is string building up then stopping at "$Hello"
[12:08] <fsphil> you'll need to set index to 0 when clearing the buffer
[12:08] <fsphil> you're storing the special characters too
[12:09] <fsphil> the logic should be, if asterisk, or if doller, else store
[12:09] <cuddykid> oh right :), so when if (inChar == '$') { index set to 0..
[12:09] <daveake_> Yes
[12:09] <cuddykid> as well as the memset stuff?
[12:09] <daveake_> And don't store it too!
[12:09] <daveake_> No need for the memset
[12:10] <fsphil> memset stuff is overkill, just set the first byte in the string to '\0'
[12:10] <cuddykid> I see, as it should write over it?
[12:10] <daveake_> Yes. Means you *must* do the '\0' bit and do that *before* the println
[12:11] <codetiger> @edmoore When I use the predicting tool. It shows me 29990m :(
[12:11] <daveake_> That's about right for 1.5kg load and 1.6kg balloon
[12:11] <codetiger> @edmoore what does Lat/Lon Deltas mean>
[12:12] <codetiger> Sorry the burst altitude is preentered
[12:14] <fsphil> deltas sets the area the predictor will download wind data for
[12:15] <fsphil> the default is enough to cover most flights
[12:19] <cuddykid> fsphil, could you have a brief look at new code if poss! sorry! - still not working lol - http://pastebin.com/w1GUjWL8
[12:19] <codetiger> Is the prediction too near to perfect? I mean atleast +/- 5kms ?
[12:19] <fsphil> two things
[12:20] <fsphil> index++; when resetting the buffer isn't needed
[12:20] <fsphil> the '\0' isn't counted
[12:20] <fsphil> and you're still storing the special characters in the buffer
[12:20] <fsphil> so your buffer actually contains $Hello* instead of just Hello
[12:20] <fsphil> the strcmp test will fail
[12:21] <edmoore> Randomskk: p[ing
[12:21] <edmoore> jonsowman: pang
[12:21] <cuddykid> ah right fsphil
[12:21] <cuddykid> thanks, will have another go!
[12:22] <fsphil> ain't C wonderful :D
[12:23] <cuddykid> fsphil, why isn't the '\0' counted? is it because inData[0] not inData[1] ?
[12:23] <cuddykid> lol, quite confusing!
[12:23] <fsphil> it just marks the end of the string
[12:23] <codetiger> @edmoore Is the prediction too accurate? I mean atleast +/- 5kms ?
[12:23] <cuddykid> fsphil, so I can just delete that?
[12:24] <fsphil> you can just remove the index++
[12:24] <cuddykid> got you
[12:24] <fsphil> with that there, the next character gets put after the '\0'
[12:24] <cuddykid> I see :D
[12:24] <fsphil> so you'll always end up with an empty string
[12:24] <cuddykid> yeah
[12:25] <cuddykid> how come the special chars are still being added? I thought by breaking the loop they would be avoided as it would move onto next char
[12:26] <fsphil> you might be right there
[12:26] <cuddykid> right, now on the serial monitor I'm getting mostly "Hello"
[12:26] <fsphil> misread the code
[12:26] <cuddykid> however, led is not coming on lol, I'm guessing it's stuck in the loop
[12:26] <cuddykid> yeah, no special chars being added now
[12:26] <fsphil> inData[index] = '\0' should be above the println
[12:28] <cuddykid> woo, printing out in serial monitor perfectly now&. however&. led still refusing to come on :(
[12:28] <fsphil> try printing something to the console instead of flashing the led
[12:29] <cuddykid> will do
[12:29] <cuddykid> all this debugging lol
[12:29] <fsphil> not sure about arduino, do you have to setup the pin as an output?
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[12:29] <cuddykid> yep, that works, so must be led
[12:30] <cuddykid> however, the serial monitor is getting pounded.. so need to add delay otherwise it'll crash on me lol
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[12:31] <cuddykid> working :D .. forgot to declare pinMode
[12:31] <daveake_> Damn I should have spotted that one!
[12:31] <cuddykid> haha
[12:32] <cuddykid> well.. that was fun!
[12:32] <fsphil> woo-hoo!
[12:32] <cuddykid> right, looks like one more problemo
[12:32] <cuddykid> actually maybe not.. hold on!..
[12:32] <edmoore> the joy of software
[12:34] <cuddykid> yeah, looks like I need to clear the string as it's just looping round and as the string is still present the led remains on constantly
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[12:36] <cuddykid> hmm, nope
[12:37] rjharrison (~rjharriso@gateway.hgf.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[12:37] <NigelMoby> Grr me is fuming :@
[12:38] jcoxon (~jcoxon@92.40.253.118.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:38] <cuddykid> with this code (at the bottom) - http://pastebin.com/vXXE1bpK - led is still blinking even when other radio turned off
[12:38] <NigelMoby> Ello James
[12:39] <daveake_> cuddykid set index=0 somewhere in the code after your strcmp test
[12:39] <daveake_> wossup Nigel?
[12:39] <Zuph> Morning y'all
[12:40] <cuddykid> cool, thanks daveake_ - tried memset but didn't work
[12:40] <jcoxon> morning
[12:40] <daveake_> Afternoon
[12:40] <NigelMoby> Brb
[12:40] <cuddykid> daveake_: no luck
[12:42] <daveake_> Oh, sorry, you need to set 1st byte to zero like in your == '$' bit
[12:42] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy
[12:42] <RocketBoy> yo
[12:43] <daveake_> e.g. inData[index=0] = '\0';
[12:43] <cuddykid> woo :)
[12:43] <cuddykid> thanks, still went on for a few pulses but then stopped
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[12:45] <cuddykid> hmm, it goes on for a long time after (depends on how long it has been running) - as if the serial data was being buffered up
[12:45] <cuddykid> so every loop it still had fresh serial
[12:45] <cuddykid> despite radio being off
[12:45] <cuddykid> anyway to flush serial buffer?
[12:46] <cuddykid> Serial.flush()
[12:46] <cuddykid> :)
[12:46] <cuddykid> probably some soft serial issue
[12:47] <edmoore> Randomskk: new ipython (ipython qtconsole --pylab=inline) will plot graphs inside the window
[12:47] <edmoore> then trivially let you export to xm or html with pictures embedded
[12:47] <edmoore> it's like the best notebook ever
[12:48] <cuddykid> works :D
[12:48] <Randomskk> edmoore: I saw! then I tried to get it to work and was like D:
[12:48] <edmoore> oh it has documentation popup too
[12:48] <edmoore> i'm loving it
[12:48] <edmoore> that + vim = megasex
[12:49] <edmoore> what time are you londoning tomorrow?
[12:49] <cuddykid> now I can do some range tests with my flashing light lol
[12:49] <Randomskk> I think I ended up recompiling my pythonbrew python to get qt with it and like ugh
[12:49] <Randomskk> eventually I got something to work but I don't think I ever got it doing stuff properly
[12:49] <Randomskk> so, not sure, I think Darkside said he'd be at science museum early morning, but was then spending some time looking at accommodation in london before going to lhs in the evening for his talk
[12:50] <edmoore> i'm not sure i can face early early morn
[12:51] <edmoore> i quite want a bacon sandwich and a coffee and a sitdown
[12:51] <Randomskk> yes
[12:51] <Randomskk> a week of working kinda does that to my saturdays
[12:51] <edmoore> but i could easily get in for 10.30/11
[12:51] <Randomskk> I usually sleep for hours, wake up leisurely, have a warm pain au choc and some smoothie then lie in bed with the mba for a bit
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[12:52] <Randomskk> so I dunno how early he meant, but also dunno what I'd do while he's looking for accommodation in london
[12:52] <Randomskk> if I were still a LHS member I could go there and sit and hack on habitat for a bit :P
[12:52] <jcoxon> Randomskk, that sounds a little dodgey
[12:52] <Randomskk> jcoxon: have you held an mba? felt its smooth, sleek skin?
[12:53] <Randomskk> looked deeply into its vivid glossy screen?
[12:53] <jcoxon> nice
[12:53] <Randomskk> "multi-touched" its sensitive touchpad?
[12:53] <fsphil> yuck, glossy screens
[12:53] <NigeyS> lol
[12:53] <Zuph> fsphil: /agree
[12:54] <NigeyS> Zuph, you been fiddling with water mains again? :p
[12:54] <fsphil> If I wanted to see the roof or myself I'd get a mirror ;-)
[12:54] <Zuph> Nope, not on my end of town!
[12:54] <NigeyS> crazy eh!
[12:54] <Zuph> Just a block away from my University, though
[12:54] <NigeyS> blimey
[12:55] <NigeyS> did i see something about a whitestar launch this w/e ?
[12:55] <Zuph> Oh, not really a White Star launch
[12:55] <NigeyS> ahh just piggybacking ?
[12:55] <Zuph> Spaceport Indiana asked Dan to lead a latex flight. Some WB8ELK payloads, mostly.
[12:56] <edmoore> Randomskk: ok
[12:56] <NigeyS> oh cool
[12:56] <edmoore> sounds like an evening thing then
[12:56] <Zuph> We're going to fly some stuff too. See what happens to a BMP085 above its rated altitude.
[12:57] <NigeyS> Zuph, got ya, what they rated to btw ?
[12:57] <Upu> Bad bit of riot footage : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbVW_QS2eE
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[12:58] <NigeyS> Two men accused of using Facebook to encourage riots, allegedly believed to be in Cardiff and Swansea, were remanded in custody by Cardiff magistrates.
[12:58] <NigeyS> meh
[12:58] <NigeyS> shoot them
[12:59] <Zuph> NigeyS: 300 hPa.
[12:59] <Zuph> We want to use it in the 200 hPa region. Have heard mixed reports of "working," but no one has handed out a data dump.
[13:00] <NigeyS> ah right, i think thats the same sensor darkside is sticking on to ats-1 on the 20th
[13:00] <NigeyS> outside the payload box with no insulation, should be err..fun
[13:00] <Zuph> heh
[13:01] <fsphil> "shoot them" .. and then if they find out they where actually innocent? oops
[13:01] <mattltm> ping jcoxon
[13:01] <NigeyS> fsphil, woopsie? :p
[13:03] <Randomskk> edmoore: yea possibly. haven't heard from jon yet
[13:03] <Randomskk> he's like on holiday or something though
[13:03] <Randomskk> think he was keen to come too though
[13:03] <edmoore> bastard
[13:03] <edmoore> with his bastard holidays
[13:03] <NigeyS> lol charming
[13:04] <Randomskk> this is like, his second week of being on holiday all summer holidays!
[13:04] <Randomskk> so much holiday
[13:04] <NigeyS> thats just not on, summon him!
[13:05] <Randomskk> does that work?
[13:05] <Randomskk> haha
[13:05] <Randomskk> excellent
[13:05] <Randomskk> I don't think he's getting emails though
[13:05] <Randomskk> sorry jon :P
[13:05] Action: NigeyS hides
[13:05] <jcoxon> it does work
[13:05] <jcoxon> we fixed it
[13:05] <Randomskk> I mean for jon
[13:05] <Randomskk> I think I'm on it now too?
[13:06] Action: Randomskk waits...
[13:06] <Randomskk> might have been Randomskk on consideration
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[13:07] <NigeyS> lmao
[13:08] <NigeyS> would that be god@god.com then? :|
[13:08] <fsphil> uh-oh lol
[13:08] <daveake_> Mailbox full
[13:08] <jcoxon> NigeyS, don't summon random names - it just emails me
[13:08] <jcoxon> :-)
[13:08] <NigeyS> but ure not god!
[13:08] <jcoxon> hehe
[13:08] <NigeyS> i wanted god dammit! lol
[13:08] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jcoxon' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[13:08] <NigeyS> uhoh
[13:08] <fsphil> didn't you watch ghostbusters? if someone asks if your a god, you say yes :)
[13:09] <NigeyS> good point phil
[13:09] <daveake_> Question for any radio guys there .... on my HAB I made a ground plane from 4 bits of wire all the same length as the antenna itself (164mm IIRC). Does it make much/any difference if those ground plane wires are shorter? Is the rule "as large as possible" or is it "same length as antenna"?
[13:09] <Randomskk> "as large as possible"
[13:10] <Randomskk> negligable beyond about antenna length though
[13:10] <daveake_> Thanks, god :)
[13:10] <Elwell> ooooh gopro do a sync cable to get 3d with 2 cameras
[13:11] <Elwell> must... resist ... wallet .. urge
[13:11] <daveake_> Oh, and is a flat piece of ali foil as good as or better than the 4 wires?
[13:11] <NigeyS> Elwell, expensive ?
[13:11] <SamSilver> daveake_: you can affect the impedence by changing the angle
[13:11] <Elwell> 2* gopros and another 99 usd
[13:11] <Elwell> then the 3D tv to view it on I guess :)
[13:11] <NigeyS> eek, thats a good $700 ? ish
[13:11] <Randomskk> daveake_: about as good as. you basically wont' notice a difference.
[13:11] <daveake_> Ta
[13:12] <daveake_> SamSilver - angle them down, you mean?
[13:12] <Elwell> http://gopro.com/hd-hero-accessories/3d-hero-system/
[13:12] <Randomskk> ideally the wires should be at like 45 degrees upwards from the horizontal, so it looks like >- from the side, but in practice meh
[13:12] <daveake_> Ah
[13:12] <daveake_> OK
[13:12] <SamSilver> yes daveake_
[13:13] <fsphil> I had them flat, and people in london received the signal
[13:13] <daveake_> This is for my pico payload. I'm trying to make sure the radio part is OK, whilst wanting to make the whole thing look like a flying saucer :)
[13:13] <BrainDamage> add some led strobe please
[13:14] <daveake_> Ground plane wires coming down at an angle could look like legs, you see :)
[13:14] <daveake_> Oh, LEDs are in :)
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[13:14] <BrainDamage> and don't forget to scan the newspapers when they'll think your UFO is an alien spaceship
[13:14] <daveake_> lol
[13:14] <fsphil> daveake_, (gosh, too many D* nicks - tab complete fail)
[13:14] <fsphil> have you seen nigeys pico payload?
[13:14] <fsphil> it looked like a space invader
[13:15] <NigeyS> haha it was, it came from mars
[13:15] <daveake_> :)
[13:15] <NigeyS> i hope little picochu enjoyed his swim
[13:15] <NigeyS> :(
[13:15] <daveake_> Need a tiny lightweight speaker so it can play the UFO note sequence from Close Encounters
[13:15] <Darkside> lol
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[13:16] <fsphil> haha
[13:16] <NigeyS> oh dear lol
[13:16] <NigeyS> hey Darkside
[13:16] <fsphil> duh duh duh DOOOH DOOOH
[13:16] <daveake_> A step too far
[13:16] <daveake_> :)
[13:16] <fsphil> or the twilight zone theme
[13:16] <daveake_> :)
[13:17] <NigeyS> eastender theme tune ftw!
[13:18] <daveake_> I do have standards, low may they be!
[13:19] <NigeyS> lol
[13:22] <SamSilver> daveake_: pic for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Antenne_gp_vhf_3.jpg
[13:22] <Darkside> 1/4 wave with ground plane
[13:22] <daveake_> SamSilver: thanks for that. I'll have to go with them being flat though, to fit in with my other requirement :)
[13:23] <fsphil> or my version: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5431825038/
[13:23] <Darkside> fsphil: you are a horrible person
[13:23] <daveake_> Stylish!
[13:23] <Darkside> and your antenna is horrible
[13:23] <fsphil> oooh it's lovely
[13:23] <Darkside> and you should be ashamed
[13:23] <Darkside> you MONSTER
[13:23] <fsphil> that coax had it comign!
[13:23] <daveake_> Shagi = Shit Yagi?
[13:24] <Darkside> nah
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[13:24] <fsphil> lol
[13:24] <NigeyS> lol it worked really well
[13:24] <Darkside> 1/4 wave with a really shit ground plane
[13:24] <cuddykid_mob> finally got irc client on phone
[13:24] <daveake_> Yeah, I know what it is, I wondered what "Shagi" meant
[13:24] <Darkside> shaggy*
[13:24] <RocketBoy> BBL
[13:24] <cuddykid_mob> should work well when in the field :)
[13:24] <fsphil> this is it properly installed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5642986472/
[13:24] <daveake_> I guess the radio gods have to smile on a design like that
[13:24] <Darkside> fsphil: oh THATS wht you did
[13:25] <Darkside> see, thats fine
[13:25] <fsphil> oh yea I wouldn't leave it dangling
[13:25] <Darkside> yeah, NigeyS did
[13:25] <NigeyS> Darkside, we didnt have room for that :P
[13:25] <Darkside> :P
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[13:25] <NigeyS> brb
[13:26] <fsphil> untwisting the shield is a royal pita
[13:26] <cuddykid> hate the shield on coax
[13:26] <fsphil> but it's largely invincible
[13:26] <cuddykid> really sharp
[13:28] <NigeyS> 2 hours it took me to untangle the bloody braid!
[13:28] <daveake_> fsphil: looks like my payload ground plane - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6034844159/
[13:29] <fsphil> yep, exactly the same style
[13:29] <fsphil> they work very well
[13:29] <jcoxon> its worth it though
[13:29] <jcoxon> untangling the braid
[13:29] <jcoxon> my stronger antennas then soldering on wire
[13:29] <daveake_> So, LinkedIn thinks I should join the group "Women business owner" lol
[13:30] <NigeyS> jcoxon, yup, just takes alot of patients!
[13:30] <fsphil> woo, home time
[13:30] <jcoxon> hehe patience :-)
[13:30] <NigeyS> that too
[13:30] <Darkside> at 2:30?
[13:30] <jcoxon> i've had enough of patients!
[13:31] <NigeyS> lol i bet
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[13:34] <jcoxon> bbl
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[13:37] <Darkside> The server rejected the submitted form data: A prediction cannot be run for a time that is more than 180 hours in the future
[13:37] <Darkside> awwww
[13:38] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=e0609e756c6c2acd1ff5d5a5d070093931c15e6c well hopefully that doesn't happen
[13:38] <Randomskk> haha right in the drink :|
[13:38] <Darkside> eroomde: what could we do with a 68g payload and a 600g balloon
[13:41] <edmoore> edmoore
[13:42] <Darkside> edmoore: how much wil cusf charge for helium
[13:42] <edmoore> we don't give helium to anyone else
[13:42] <edmoore> period
[13:43] <edmoore> liability is bonkers
[13:43] <Darkside> np
[13:44] <Darkside> local boc?
[13:44] <Darkside> how much would they charge
[13:45] <edmoore> non idea
[13:46] <edmoore> our tanks would be £150/ea
[13:46] <Darkside> damn ok
[13:46] <Darkside> mm
[13:46] <Darkside> we'd only need a small amount
[13:46] <Darkside> 600g balloon
[13:46] <NigeyS> 1.8m^3 ish
[13:47] <Darkside> yeah
[13:47] <Darkside> if it ends up only being mininut flying...
[13:47] <Darkside> hell, we could underfull it
[13:47] <Darkside> underfill*
[13:48] <RocketBoy> A boc PT10 will give you 1.8
[13:48] <RocketBoy> or an air products N10
[13:48] <RocketBoy> gives about 2.6
[13:48] <NigeyS> yup, thats what i have here, the n10
[13:48] <Darkside> total cost?
[13:49] <daveake_> I used these guys = http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing
[13:49] <Darkside> i presume you pay a deposit on the bottle?
[13:49] <Darkside> ok, o you could get a 1.8m^3 bottle
[13:50] <RocketBoy> yeah - but what if you need slightly more on the day
[13:50] <daveake_> They deliver or you can collect from the local Air Products site
[13:50] <Darkside> RocketBoy: then i'd get a 2.6m^3
[13:51] <RocketBoy> probably best
[13:51] <Darkside> ill they refund if you return it part full?
[13:51] <daveake_> My lot didn't
[13:51] <Darkside> hrmm
[13:51] <Darkside> edmoore: know if anyone around cambridge way does that?
[13:51] <RocketBoy> £36 delivery ouch
[13:51] <edmoore> Darkside: honestly don't know
[13:52] <edmoore> infact there's a balloon party shop we have used
[13:52] <edmoore> on the high steet
[13:52] <daveake_> Yeah, I collected. They have a place in Didcot which isn't far from me
[13:52] <RocketBoy> party days its called
[13:53] <RocketBoy> (the one edmoore is talking about)
[13:53] <Randomskk> edmoore: haha jon got the summons and emailed back
[13:53] Action: RocketBoy wistfully thinks of the early days of UK HABing
[13:53] <Randomskk> he regrets that he cannot get on IRC at the moment as he is enjoying his holiday too much
[13:53] <Darkside> hmmmm
[13:53] <Randomskk> but I asked if he's still up for coming to london
[13:53] <Randomskk> will let you know
[13:53] <Darkside> edmoore: so, ultra light payload + 600g balloon
[13:54] <Darkside> whatcha think could be done with it?
[13:54] <edmoore> what sort of payload mass?
[13:54] <Darkside> 68g
[13:54] <Darkside> say 80g with parachute
[13:54] <Darkside> and some kidn of foamish thing around it
[13:55] <edmoore> zigbee range test
[13:55] <Darkside> eh?
[13:56] <edmoore> baby floater
[13:56] <Darkside> hmm
[13:56] <Darkside> well, mininut is 68g with 3 AAA batteries
[13:57] <Darkside> could you underinflate the balloon and go for altitude?
[13:57] <Darkside> what kind of altitude could you get out of a 600g balloon like that?
[13:57] <RocketBoy> depends on the ascent rate
[13:58] <edmoore> oh yes party days
[13:58] <edmoore> Darkside: probably not that much
[13:58] <Randomskk> terribly dangerous but it'd be kinda fun to make a balloon float at about 20m altitude and have it scan for wifi networks, talk over gsm, all that
[13:59] <cuddykid> hmm, do maplin sell those SMA connectors for pcb/breadboards?
[13:59] <Randomskk> did anyone see the UAV droid thign someone showed off at one of the recent security conferences? it had wifi, gsm, gps, loads of scanning, basically wardrones
[13:59] <cuddykid> had a look but can't find any
[13:59] <cuddykid> that sounds v cool Randomskk
[13:59] <Darkside> edmoore: burst calc says you could do 36km with a 2.62m/s ascent rate
[13:59] <Darkside> 0.79m^3 of cas
[13:59] <RocketBoy> cuddykid: try rapid electronocs
[13:59] <edmoore> pfff
[14:00] <edmoore> ok we can try it
[14:00] <cuddykid> cheers RocketBoy
[14:00] <edmoore> for shits
[14:00] <Darkside> edmoore: or 37km with 1.24m/s lol
[14:00] <edmoore> we flew a badgercub in a jiffy bag on a 3kg balloon once
[14:00] <Darkside> highest ever flight of a 600g balloon lol
[14:00] <Darkside> edmoore: wow
[14:00] <edmoore> it died unfortunately
[14:00] <Darkside> eek
[14:00] <edmoore> it had a few hours early been smashed into the ground
[14:01] <Darkside> haha
[14:01] <edmoore> just thought we'd chace it
[14:01] <edmoore> chance*
[14:01] <edmoore> after a day of tethered tests with a 3kg
[14:01] <Darkside> aaaanyway, could be fun to try and hit 36-37km with a tiny payload
[14:01] <edmoore> yeah ok
[14:01] <edmoore> is there pressure onboard?
[14:01] <Darkside> yep
[14:01] <edmoore> oh!
[14:01] <edmoore> oh right
[14:01] <edmoore> now you're talking
[14:01] <edmoore> ok
[14:01] <Darkside> its a BMP085
[14:01] <edmoore> lets try and get it to float
[14:02] <Darkside> dunno how accurate it is at those altitudes then
[14:02] <Darkside> edmoore: >_>
[14:02] <Darkside> i want my payload back
[14:02] <Darkside> grr
[14:02] <edmoore> no way
[14:02] <NigeyS> lols
[14:03] <Darkside> if it floats, i'm not going to get it back am i
[14:03] <edmoore> we gotta float this thing...
[14:03] <edmoore> ok Darkside
[14:03] <edmoore> tell you what we just do as you said
[14:03] <edmoore> aim for 36km with 2ish m/s ascent
[14:03] <Darkside> jeez thats gonna be a SLOW launch
[14:03] <edmoore> pretend i ever said anything about floating
[14:03] <Darkside> time for a bbq in the middle
[14:03] <edmoore> cos i bet it'll just go up and pop
[14:03] Action: edmoore giggles
[14:03] <Darkside> edmoore: >_>
[14:04] <Darkside> so, what would be required to do a floader
[14:04] <Darkside> floater*
[14:04] <edmoore> nothing
[14:04] <edmoore> i think it will float anyway
[14:04] <Darkside> lets make the assumption i don't want teh payload back
[14:04] <Darkside> now what could we do
[14:04] <edmoore> i would go for nominal 37km
[14:04] <Darkside> lets say 100g payload, to allow for bigger batteries
[14:05] <edmoore> and make sure pressure is telemetered
[14:05] <Darkside> i know my mininut boards will run for 21 hours of 4x AA batteries
[14:05] <Darkside> but that'll make it heavier
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> I note that I have some 6*6" solar cells that output 4A@0.5V weighing 6g each
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> They are _very_ fragile though.
[14:06] <cuddykid> typical - go to do a range test and bam lead snaps off switch
[14:06] <cuddykid> the solar cells I have from solarbotics are great - over 8V at about 40mA in sun
[14:06] <Darkside> edmoore: okay
[14:07] <Darkside> i need to do a runtime test off 4x AAAs
[14:07] <Darkside> i'll do that tonight
[14:07] <cuddykid> I'm still using my lithiums that I flew on 1st flight - can't believe the amount of power in them!
[14:07] <fsphil> woo, home
[14:08] <edmoore> Darkside: is this for next sat?
[14:08] <Darkside> edmoore: ?
[14:09] <edmoore> launch in cam
[14:09] <Darkside> yes
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[14:17] <Dutch-Mill> Hi@all
[14:19] <NigeyS> edmoore, looks like i cant get transport up on the 10th so im going to send the balloon to Darkside so he can launch his nut
[14:20] <NigeyS> 20th*
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[14:20] <edmoore> NigeyS: ok
[14:20] <edmoore> that's a bummer
[14:20] <NigeyS> yeah, im not happy
[14:20] <edmoore> if you can get yourself to oxford i could get you the rest of the way
[14:21] <edmoore> or reading or somewhere
[14:21] <NigeyS> hmm, ill see what i can do, cant get a train or a coach as i have my own helium to bring
[14:21] Action: SpeedEvil ponders the price of a kilo of sodium.
[14:21] <NigeyS> :o
[14:22] <Laurenceb> aluminium and naoh
[14:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Probably more sane, yes.
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[14:23] <Laurenceb> or electrolysis with an atx supply
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[14:23] Action: SpeedEvil likes all his hair.
[14:23] <BrainDamage> pressurizing becomes slightly problematic
[14:25] <NigeyS> grr bbs
[14:28] <Zuph> Things from makerfaire that stunned me: The number of people that thought our balloon was a hot air balloon.
[14:29] Action: cuddykid grabs some coax
[14:31] <Dutch-Mill> Any on the XABEN launch the 12th (13th) August 2011?
[14:31] <fsphil-laptop> it's going up tomorrow Dutch-Mill
[14:32] <fsphil-laptop> 10am-ish
[14:32] <fsphil-laptop> BST I assume
[14:32] <Dutch-Mill> ok thankz see if i can grab a few lines
[14:33] <fsphil-laptop> same here - though RocketBoy mentioned it was unlikely to get above 20km
[14:34] <edmoore> Randomskk: tut for network mounted drive as time machine backup or do I just wing it?
[14:40] <Dutch-Mill> @fsphil : Well he is floating in my direction I see on the landing predictor
[14:42] <Dutch-Mill> SeeY tomorrow
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[14:45] <fsphil-laptop> gotta reconnect everything again
[14:45] <fsphil-laptop> need a better system for tracking
[14:47] <cuddykid> anyone heard about this - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/worlds-fastest-plane-designed-us-military-112431862.html I hadn't !
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> Calling it a plane is somewhat of a misnomer.
[14:51] <Laurenceb> it broke
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> It's a tiny test article.
[14:53] <cuddykid> time to range test
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[15:03] <NigeyS> cuddykid, have you any info on that cutdown online yet ?
[15:03] <Laurenceb> http://www.dreamloverlabs.com/dl2000-technology.php
[15:03] <NigeyS> oh SpeedEvil ATOS .. uve heard of them right ?
[15:06] <russss> everyone's painting that HTV crash as a failure but they weren't expecting to get it back in one piece
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[15:10] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: yes.
[15:10] <NigeyS> they got me in huge trouble this morning
[15:10] <NigeyS> reckoned i failed to attend
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: I'm currently completing an exciting 50 page form, with the aid of reading lots of underlying legislation.
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> And caselaw.
[15:10] <NigeyS> ouch
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> In the attempt to avoid getting called for a medical. Ow - what happened?
[15:11] <NigeyS> they seem to be awfully powerful for a health service body !
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[15:11] <NigeyS> they made an appointment, gave me wrong date, i got signed off
[15:11] <Laurenceb> whats up with a medical?
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> DWP decisionmakers are too often just rubberstamping the medical reports.
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: You have the actual letter?
[15:11] <SpeedEvil> Giving you the wrong date?
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Employment and Support Allowance.
[15:12] <NigeyS> i do, its been faxed to them this morning, i also have a letter they sent out 3 weeks later, giving me an appointment of the time / date they said i missed
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> Ah - they can reschedule.
[15:13] <NigeyS> yup, crafty sods
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> This is ESA?
[15:13] <NigeyS> yeah
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> You don't normally get paid after not attending a medical - you have to show 'good cause'.
[15:14] <NigeyS> well hopefully their own letter with the wrong date is good cause, if not im going to see a solicitor
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> It's one of the things to be hyper-paranoid about, as there are only a few causes spelled out in the legislation.
[15:15] <cuddykid> back from range test
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/decision-makers-guide/#vol8 are the handy docs you want.
[15:15] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, dam :/
[15:15] <NigeyS> either way, their to powerful for a health service imo
[15:16] <NigeyS> cheers will have a long read !
[15:16] <cuddykid> radios performed as expected really - got about 700m out of them with ok los (few trees in the way) - however, dodgy antennas on both transmitter & received (just a chunk of coax)
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/vol08.pdf - page 197
[15:17] <cuddykid> not exactly the 30 odd km I need but with improved antennas and 100% clear los then more range should be achieved hopefully :D
[15:17] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, tnx, very helpful!!
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> In principle, your case is weak, if you had 7 days written notice of the examination.
[15:18] <cuddykid> NigeyS: with regards to cutdown - will upload photos & vid now
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: You probably want to be trying to reschedule for as soon as possible, to avoid losing payments.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: rather than at this stage going through the route of complaints - you can do that later.
[15:19] <NigeyS> cuddykid, cheers :D
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[15:20] <SpeedEvil> (you have up to 4 weeks to appeal the decision to stop the benefit, which is extended by 2 weeks if you phone them up (or write) and request a statement of reasons for them stopping your benefit.
[15:20] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, well, i filled in a form asking for reasons that i FTA, and spoke to DWp this morning asking on both occasions to be rescheduled
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> k
[15:20] <NigeyS> its gone back to the decision makers for re-examination apparently
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> But - 'If, ... they had 7 days notice ... the claimant cannot be treated as not having LCW' See 42245 on page 198
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> So a reconsideration is probably doomed to fail - and you need to get a new appointment ASAP.
[15:23] <cuddykid> going to alter the baud rate and shift on these modems - then test again
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: What modems are these?
[15:24] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, hmm thats harsh, ill ring atos directly
[15:24] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil: easy radio advance ones
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: yes - failure to attend is nasty. Almost any other failure can be appealed and you get paid uering the ppeal.
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Anway - have a read of the entire section. Gives a nice outline of what they should decide, and any possible escapes.
[15:26] <cuddykid> NigeyS: 3 photos at end of this set http://flic.kr/s/aHsjvtsTpK
[15:26] <NigeyS> tnx SpeedEvil will do :D
[15:26] <fsphil> cuddykid, that's pretty good range
[15:26] <fsphil> you sure it was actual data being transferred?
[15:26] <cuddykid> fsphil, yeah especially with effectively no antenna
[15:26] <cuddykid> yep
[15:27] <fsphil> oooh think what you could do with a bit of error correction too :)
[15:27] <cuddykid> as light went off in the dense area until it opened out for los (or almost)
[15:27] <cuddykid> I think it has error correction built in
[15:27] <fsphil> that's right, it's all handled by the modem
[15:27] <fsphil> excellent
[15:27] <cuddykid> not sure though, I'm just using their stuff - simply input serial then receive it the other end!
[15:28] <fsphil> are you flying this on a proper launch?
[15:28] <cuddykid> going to try it as uplink - just have whatever is received to be sent down via NTX2
[15:28] <cuddykid> yep, next one :)
[15:28] <fsphil> I'd be tempted to get a receiver here, see how far we can communicate with it
[15:28] <cuddykid> not sure if I will get over 10km out of it
[15:29] <cuddykid> going to change baud rate now and test again, see if it makes any noticeable difference
[15:29] <fsphil> got a 10-el yagi and a small mountain :)
[15:29] <fsphil> I wonder if they work 1:1 or can there be multiple receivers
[15:29] <fsphil> or something in an RX-only mode
[15:29] <cuddykid> might do! - however, I won't have receiver on ground for easyradio as I only have a transmitter and transceiver
[15:30] <cuddykid> and transceiver is going in the air
[15:30] <fsphil> aah
[15:30] <fsphil> so it's one-way
[15:30] <cuddykid> mine is yeah, but if successful will get another transceiver :)
[15:31] <fsphil> we could try to relay a message via it
[15:32] <cuddykid> yeah
[15:32] <cuddykid> thought not sure easy radios standard they use
[15:34] <fsphil> it would need to be the same hardware on all sides
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[15:38] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139 too
[15:45] <NigeyS> oo thanks!!
[15:46] <fsphil> who puts a picture of themselves at the top of every page on their website
[15:46] <cuddykid> changed baud rate - finally
[15:46] <cuddykid> now to test!
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[16:05] <cuddykid> back
[16:06] <fsphil> re
[16:06] <cuddykid> indeed stepping down the baud rate (but also shift) increased the range slightly :)
[16:06] <cuddykid> so will be transmitting at 2400 and 12.5khz shift
[16:06] <cuddykid> compared to 50 and 800mhz on the ntx2 lol
[16:07] <fsphil> 800mhz shift? :)
[16:07] <cuddykid> hz ;)
[16:07] <cuddykid> lol
[16:07] <fsphil> another Tim! :)
[16:07] <fsphil> the shift doesn't actually matter much in rtty
[16:07] <fsphil> at 50 baud you could have it as low as 25hz
[16:07] <cuddykid> oh right
[16:10] <fsphil> actually I think it can go lower, but the signal gets harder to decode
[16:11] <cuddykid> need to get the transmitter hooked up to my yagi at some point, should boost the range a bit :D
[16:11] <fsphil> definitely!
[16:11] <fsphil> so you went walkabout with the transceiver?
[16:11] <cuddykid> yup, well, bike!
[16:12] <fsphil> sweet
[16:12] <cuddykid> will build a 1/4 wave ground plane for transceiver
[16:12] <eroomde> i might do a cycle chase on day
[16:12] <eroomde> one*
[16:12] <eroomde> perhaps a not very windy day
[16:12] <cuddykid> slowly checking things off: SD logger - done; solar panels - done; radios - almost done
[16:13] <cuddykid> keychain cam - almost done
[16:13] <cuddykid> hmm, wonder if there's a way of switching from one battery to another when empty (now I've got 2 keychain cam batterys)
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[16:15] <SpeedEvil> Parallel them
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[16:15] <eroomde> cuddykid: adc perhaps
[16:15] <eroomde> switch over ona threshhold
[16:15] <eroomde> but
[16:15] <eroomde> why not just have them both run in parallel?
[16:16] <eroomde> you get twice the capacity, without any error-prone switching logic
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> Though there is extra fun if one develops an internal short
[16:17] <BrainDamage> make sure they have the same voltage before connecting in parallel :p
[16:17] <eroomde> lol yes
[16:17] <BrainDamage> and a large resistor can help reducing the inrush current during equalization
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[16:28] <daveake_> cuddykid - parallel, or just get a bigger one. ebay should have loads as they're used for R/C models
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[16:30] <cuddykid> nice, thanks daveake_ , SpeedEvil, eroomde
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[17:00] <mattltm> anyone know the minimum input voltage of an LD33CV regulator?
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[17:44] Nick change: number4 -> number10
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes ifnorance of baic physics makes me want to shoot people.
[17:46] <SpeedEvil> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/08/12/172229/8-Grams-of-Thorium-Could-Replace-Gasoline-In-Cars
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[17:59] <Darkside> eroomde: i'm seeing about the expected rms noise
[18:00] <Darkside> i'll send you a copy of the runtime test dta
[18:00] <Darkside> once it finishes
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[19:06] <gb73d> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/821/sirpatrickmoorewithmike.jpg/
[19:06] <gb73d> thats me w sir pat last saturday w the British Interplanetary Soc Picnic in his garden
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[19:23] <fsphil> pouring down
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> your glasses are ... interesting
[19:27] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: yes that article did make me wtf
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> tho i do wonder how small an accelerator driven thorium reactor could be
[19:28] <number10> looks like you have had the worst of it thogh fsphil : http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
[19:28] Action: hibby spent his afternoon playing cornhole
[19:28] Action: hibby nisggers
[19:28] <hibby> **sniggers
[19:28] <fsphil> number10, oooh nice. at least it looks like that's it though
[19:28] <fsphil> once it passes
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> well as long as you keep the s in there
[19:28] <Darkside> hmm, i wonder if i should botehr bringing an umbrella to london
[19:28] <Darkside> it means i'll need to carry it around everywhere
[19:28] <hibby> Laurenceb_: was nearly a spelling crisis
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> this is pretty hilarious http://www.dreamloverlabs.com/dl2000-technology.php
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> still cant work out if its fake or not
[19:32] <daveake> "Thanks to the water-proofing, the receiver does not need to be removed prior to showers or even baths." .... well, that's nice to know lol
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> http://www.dreamloverlabs.com/dl2000-pulse.php
[19:33] <Laurenceb_> got to be fake
[19:34] <Darkside> what the hell
[19:35] <hibby> Dunno
[19:35] <hibby> you don't know what these yanks are like
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> http://thetoy.co.uk/ (also nsfw)
[19:38] <hibby> SpeedEvil: wow
[19:38] <hibby> i want one
[19:38] <Laurenceb_> found the link whilst trolling a female supremacist channel
[19:38] <hibby> lol, amazing
[19:39] <Randomskk> sure you did.
[19:42] <Laurenceb_> they are batshit crazy, apparently that thing is the greatest invention ever
[19:43] <Laurenceb_> irc.bondage.com
[19:44] <Laurenceb_> maybe i should get a life
[19:44] <Zuph> Great, now I'm going to have nightmares about waking up trapped to a penis electrification machine.
[19:44] <hibby> !
[19:44] <hibby> lovely.
[19:44] <Darkside> aaaaah, the conversations we have in this channel
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[19:45] <Upu> that toy is a great idea but if the network was Vodafone the message would never get through 1/2 the time, the other times it would probably end up in the ass due to communication errors
[19:45] Action: Upu gets his coat
[19:45] <hibby> lool
[19:48] <Darkside> hmm
[19:48] <Darkside> who was i meeting at the london science museum tomorrow?
[19:48] <Darkside> eroomde and who else..
[19:48] <Randomskk> so I'm not sure if I'm going in the morning now
[19:50] <Darkside> hmm pressure in here has dropped slightly
[19:50] <Darkside> 1003.9 hPa down from 1004.5
[19:52] Action: Laurenceb_ dons anorak and notes that down in his copybook
[19:52] <Darkside> pff
[19:52] <Darkside> i'm doing some testing for eroomde
[19:52] <Laurenceb_>
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> www.youtube.com/watch?v=drE5cHe6c3s
[19:52] <Darkside> seeing what the noise figure is like on this pressure sensor
[19:54] <Darkside> well that position is about 200m off
[19:54] <Darkside> heh
[19:54] <Darkside> so either the google earth sat imagery is off, or i'm getting multipath off the bath abbey
[19:54] <Darkside> heh
[19:55] <Darkside> oh thats what i can do - set up the tracker to parse my additional data
[19:56] <GW8RAK> Has the world moved over to hPa or are kPa still used? I remember 101.325kPa
[19:56] <Darkside> hPa now
[19:57] <GW8RAK> Showing my age :(
[19:57] <gb73d> yeh my glasses are like a F15 pilot w a visor
[19:58] <gb73d> for drving
[19:58] <gb73d> polarising clip ons
[19:58] <gb73d> just flip em down when I need em
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy
[20:02] <Darkside> aha! now my additional data is added to the tracker
[20:02] <Darkside> wicked
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: got your n950 yet?
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> something i noticed, the icons dont rotate when you open the screen
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> Laurencebyes
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> It's prototype software - there are more recent internal images
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> And also the target device has no keyboard.
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> ah
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> The n950 is close to my heart.
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> Probably around 4cm.
[20:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> Currently wondering if the battery meter is accurate - there is an included charge meter readout, which I have reason to doubt.
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> Namely you can't integrate it and get the same answer.
[20:11] <Laurenceb_> can you get the magno out?
[20:13] <Laurenceb_> would be interesting to see what the noise is like
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> where was it...
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[20:19] <Upu> Can someone please explain this to me : http://www.strapya-world.com/products/45835.html
[20:21] <Darkside> hnno
[20:21] <Darkside> no, i cannot explain that
[20:21] <daveake> Wonder if they sell those for Palm
[20:21] <Darkside> HAH
[20:21] <Darkside> JOKE
[20:21] <daveake> Nearly
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: it's an ak89740 - currently doing some logging in fixed positions
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/t/ak - raw log from device node
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[20:30] <Laurenceb_> wow thanks
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> yeah the kionix is popular with high volume
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> proles like us cant buy it :(
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[20:31] <SpeedEvil> 01 00 seems to be start of frame maybe, then two bytes each per axis?
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> That was maybe 3-5 min of logging
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> oh its binary
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> grumble
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> would be interesting to see what the noise si
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> about 8-10 fixed positions for 30s or so, followed by random tumble for around a minute
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> ako in the same dir - just converted to decimal and per 8 bytes
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[20:46] <SpeedEvil> yeah - x (byte), sign(x),y(byte) sign(y),z(byte),sign(z),001,000 where sign is 1 or 255, and indicates value should be read as byte-256
[20:48] <Laurenceb_> ok
[20:48] Action: Laurenceb_ grabs a hex editor
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> And in same dir
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> ak.gif
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> ako is it converted to decimal
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> ak.gif shows a scatter plot of two axes
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> without paying attention to sign.
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> oh nice
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> The resting points are clear.
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> And the errors seem to be quite consistently shaped
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> and fairly large
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[20:51] <Laurenceb_> whats the sample rate?
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[20:52] <SpeedEvil> 100hz+-50%
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[20:52] <Laurenceb_> hmm similar to lsm
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> now what does my lsm noise look like...
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> splot [120:160] [150:190] [130:170] "ako" using 1:3:5
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Round in one dimension, flatter in the third
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> yeah looks very similar noise
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> to lsm303dlh
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> looks roughly equivalent, only lsm has more bits
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> but noise is >> 1lsb at ~100hz so shrug
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[21:04] <Laurenceb_> well maybe not more bits (effectively)
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[21:05] <Laurenceb_> just about 30% more gain on lsm
[21:06] <hibby> lsm?
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> st magno+accel thingy
[21:06] <hibby> cool
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[21:10] <Laurenceb_> presumably there is some worldmagmodel code in there?
[21:11] <SpeedEvil> I think that's raw
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> yeah i mean on the phone
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> There is a higher level daemon which mentions skipping calibration, so I assume that's where that happens
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> yeah id hope there would be mag model code in there
[21:12] Action: hibby drinks coffee from the bowl
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> ive got noaa worldmagmodel down to ~40KB on stm32
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> so its not like itd take up much space
[21:15] <Darkside> nn
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> need position and date
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[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> hi SamSilver fsphil earthshine
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[21:24] <SpeedEvil> Oh - there is a 'range' tweak - which I haven't looked at
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> hi SpeedEvil GW8RAK
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> Taking 10 samples _really_ reduces the noise.
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> Averaging, that is
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> Most spots fall into a ball of about 1.5 samples in diameter, not 15
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> I suppose the sane question to ask is how it performs when you look at the accel and magno as one.
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> Which is something I'm not going into tonight.
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[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
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[21:42] <RocketBoy> yo
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:45] <RocketBoy> yeah fine - just upgrading the software on my flight controller at the moment
[21:46] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Oooh!
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> splot "ak" binary format="%int16%int16%int16%*int16"
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> that is nice
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy : I'll probably get the Venus GPS soldered next week
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> and as I read it, it can be handled though the TinyGPS library of Arduino
[21:50] <RocketBoy> are you going to interface via the SPi bus?
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> just a sec
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> nice - with lines is better
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> looks good and spherical
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> So it does.
[22:00] Action: SpeedEvil should try FFTing the raw data, but my FFTfu is weak.
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> use octave
[22:00] <RocketBoy> nights
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[22:01] <Laurenceb_> load using binary format... somehow
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I need to learn octave.
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> plot(abs(fft(data)))
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> you need to load it first...
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> d=fopen('ak','r');
[22:05] <Laurenceb_> octave:3> a=fread(d,Inf,"int16",0);
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> works, but you need to split up the axes
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> Thanks - will get octave later, and have a play.
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6If6JgNQ-M&feature=related
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> done http://i.imgur.com/aNjsT.png
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> frequency on bottom axis, log amplitude on vertical
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> i picked a stationary region
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> thats in hz, assuming 100hz sampling
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right. Delaying download to after midnight - quota reasons. :/
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> b=a(1:4:size(a)(1)); b=[b,a(2:4:size(a)(1))];b=[b,a(3:4:size(a)(1))];
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> So I guess not mains
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> then b is your data array
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> _very_ 1/f
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> i little odd
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> Especially given that you can knock out a large slice of that 1/f if you put the accel in.
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> ill check it did that right
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> hmm i think its wrong somewhere
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[22:23] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/HJr9Q.png
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> needed to transpose it before calling fft, thats much more sane
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Looks pretty broadband
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> That's of a stationary spot?
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> is gain different on different axes?
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Clearly
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> It's a nice oval ball
[22:27] <hibby> hmm
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> ?hmm
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't seem logical that it should be
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Maybe it's mis-set
[22:27] <hibby> je suis hungry
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> i think this calls for spheroidfit
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Was that one axis of fft?
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> Or were you ffting the magnitude
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> one axis
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> fft?
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> fourier transformation?
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> you need it for spectra and so on
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[22:35] <Laurenceb_> hmm cant get a good fit
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> It looks like ~300*300*150 or so enclosing box
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> can the FFT be made Onboard?
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> So it's _very_ assymetric
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: you can do FFTs, but they tend to really want reasonable speeds of maths.
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> In general it's a more useeful tool for analysis rather than onboard.
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> so it's better to do that back at base?
[22:39] <BrainDamage> you can do it live, but if you can avoid it, it saves a lot of headaches
[22:41] <BrainDamage> try speclab, or an equivalent program, and ramp up the fft sample size, after 4k points or so, you'll see your pc starting to grind and the display not updating smoothly
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> ok got it
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> had to tweak it a little
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> ~170lsb/earth field
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> 1 micro tesla rms noise
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I can imagine BrainDamage
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[22:45] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> I can't seem to find a published datasheet.
[22:45] <SpeedEvil> It looks like a clear setup error if one axes is 2* as sensitive as others
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah full datasheet is nda
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> Some devices are insane.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> The LED controller in my phone is a full CPU
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> Branch, add/sub instructions, ...
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> Just that it's only got 64 bytes or so of program storage
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> i see same range on all axes
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> umm
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> ~+-160
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> oh
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> Doh
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> If I make the gnuplot window square, it works.
[22:49] <NigeyS> wth
[22:49] <NigeyS> my altitude is ........ -49m :|
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> GPS altitude is regrettably bad.
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> 6.1269e-03 5.9770e-03 6.5378e-03 3.4224e+02 1.9839e+02 2.1396e+01
[22:50] <NigeyS> not seen it this bad! i should be sodding scuba diving lol
[22:50] Action: SpeedEvil loves sourdough.
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> thats gains and biases
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> bias=lsb, gain = normalised to earth field==1
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> I wish now I could recode my breadmaker and add an optointerruptor
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> Mix 20 mins -> wait 12h -> mix 5 min -> wait 12h ->bake
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> That's fairly spherical.
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/7H9vn.png
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> about 1% nonlinearity+hysterisis etc etc according to the spheroid fitter
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> - thats the corrected output plotted in 3d
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> I'd not believe that too strongly
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> I wasn't making that sure there was no iron nearby
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> So nails/...
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> also magnetic materials in the phone
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> on my dactyl board, there was extra nonlinearity after i populated everything
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> That too, but difffferent sorts of errors of course.
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[22:58] <Laurenceb_> i wish octave kept the control bar thing on the top of gnuplot
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> when you plot you cant zoom with the cursor
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> think theres some config somewhere it control how it calls gnuplot
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah octave is linux's matlab right?
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> yes, but its cross platform
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> I know there is a windows version
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[23:06] <Laurenceb_> hmm looks like gnuplot can only zoom if it has a file, cant do that with a pipe
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> 4.2.2 fixes the issue, but i have older
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> im off, cya
[23:07] <NigeyS> nn Laurence
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> wave.
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[23:30] <NigeyS> meh brb windows frikkin update.. again!
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[23:56] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ukcitizenshiptest.co.uk/
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> barking mad
[23:56] Action: SpeedEvil failed.
[00:00] --- Sat Aug 13 2011