[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> fine thanks
[00:00] <Lunar_Lander> and you?
[00:34] <griffonbot> Received email: Cory Cash "Re: [UKHAS] Payload XML"
[00:34] Action: hibby continues his fly genocide
[00:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[00:36] <hibby> it's been a busy few days
[00:37] <hibby> they've been dropping like flies
[00:37] <hibby> doused in deoderant
[00:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:47] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "Re: [UKHAS] Payload XML"
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[02:26] <nickolai> oops, sry Lunar_Lander, was pulled away from my computer
[02:27] <nickolai> i'm doing pretty well, intending to launch on Tuesday if my radio range test goes well on Monday
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[02:27] <nickolai> o oops, he quit
[02:27] <nickolai> lol
[02:27] <nickolai> anyone around?
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[03:02] <natrium42> maybe
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[03:16] <manderson21> hi, someone suggest that I should come here with my questions
[03:18] <manderson21> For the time being, I'm just gathering information. I'm looking into creating my own helicopter/quad-copter type of thing. I have some 12 years experience in software and interest in embedded devices
[03:19] <SpeedEvil> Most people here are UK based, so are asleep
[03:20] <manderson21> oh
[03:20] <SpeedEvil> There are some who are in other timezones - but you'll get more responses from 6-12 hours ago or so
[03:20] <SpeedEvil> And I'm up too late
[03:20] <SpeedEvil> Lurking is good.
[03:20] <manderson21> are they using bouncers or do you think they'll see what I've written?
[03:21] <SpeedEvil> Mostly people leave their clients logged in, though some don't use bouncers
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[03:21] <SpeedEvil> some use
[03:21] <SpeedEvil> some just logout
[03:22] <manderson21> thanks, perhaps I can catch some people when I wake up
[03:22] <SpeedEvil> You're in the US?
[03:22] <SpeedEvil> err
[03:22] <SpeedEvil> Au?
[03:22] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[03:22] Action: SpeedEvil checks the host
[03:23] <manderson21> yes, US
[03:23] <manderson21> I'm guessing it might be too late when I get off work
[03:23] Action: SpeedEvil just has bits for a UAV.
[03:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/test.png and a render
[03:23] <SpeedEvil> (of it flying over)
[03:23] <manderson21> I literally know nothing about RF, and that's where most of my questions are at this point
[03:24] <manderson21> nice :-)
[03:24] <SpeedEvil> It's sort of a vertical-climb optimised ducted fan/helicopter thing
[03:24] <SpeedEvil> Designed to ascend to 4km in 3 min or so
[03:24] <SpeedEvil> and then land on takeoff spot
[03:24] <manderson21> whoa
[03:24] <SpeedEvil> After taking a gigapixel or so pan.
[03:24] <SpeedEvil> But the bits are sitting in the box. :/
[03:25] <manderson21> what are you using for your wireless communication?
[03:25] <SpeedEvil> Both 802.11A - and a big dish on the ground - and 433MHz/2400bps or so
[03:25] <manderson21> I've been looking at zigbee/xbee, which looks to be a decent range (100m line of sight)
[03:26] <SpeedEvil> It can be - depening on what sort of trancievers.
[03:26] <SpeedEvil> What sort of range are you looking at?
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[03:27] <SpeedEvil> once you want to get over a hundred meters or two, with bandwidths of over a few kbits/sec - power or antennae sizes tends to go way up
[03:27] <manderson21> I would love to have a UAV, but I have no idea about the power requirements for that kind of a range :-)
[03:27] <SpeedEvil> 100m is not insane - and is a fair way really. :)
[03:27] <manderson21> I think 100m sounds reasonable
[03:28] <SpeedEvil> One major thing.
[03:28] <manderson21> The xbee says it's about 250mA usage. Is that normal? high?
[03:28] <SpeedEvil> What happens when you lose radio signal.
[03:28] <SpeedEvil> quite irrelevant
[03:28] <SpeedEvil> your motors will be sucking 20A
[03:28] <SpeedEvil> typically
[03:29] <manderson21> heh
[03:29] <SpeedEvil> Possibly each. :)
[03:29] <manderson21> O_O
[03:30] <manderson21> what kind of batteries are you using?
[03:30] <SpeedEvil> Quadcopters/helicopters have _large_ power requirements.
[03:30] <SpeedEvil> Planes cheat, by reducing the disk-loading on the prop by using wings.
[03:30] <manderson21> a future goal is to make something to carry a camera for pictures/video
[03:30] <SpeedEvil> Lithim-polymer batteries, universally.
[03:31] <manderson21> is this too big to chew?
[03:31] <SpeedEvil> They can be gotten so they can discharge at 40C - they will discharge completely in 1/40th of an hour at maximum rate
[03:31] <SpeedEvil> It's a project you can approach in bits
[03:32] <SpeedEvil> For example - a simple 'ready to fly' plane body can do most of your radio and gear testing.
[03:32] <SpeedEvil> while being much more benign in control laws and hand-flyable.
[03:34] <manderson21> do you think it's better to buy an existing model and make modifications?
[03:35] <SpeedEvil> You get things which are basically foam shapes, which fly
[03:35] <SpeedEvil> you put relatively small motors in them, and you can bounce them off the ground
[03:36] <SpeedEvil> quadcopters are a lot more prone to go interestingly wrong.
[03:36] <manderson21> heheh
[03:36] <SpeedEvil> For example - hitting the ground at full power upside down
[03:36] <manderson21> that sounds like a lot of broken parts
[03:36] <SpeedEvil> Yup.
[03:37] <SpeedEvil> And getting the control algorithms a little bit wrong, so it's unstable in certain speeds of wind, for example.
[03:37] <SpeedEvil> I should probably go to sleep - night.
[03:37] <manderson21> thanks a lot for the info, night
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[08:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Graham GW8RAK "[UKHAS] Re: Payload XML"
[08:06] <edmoore> Randomskk: good morning
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[08:16] <Darkside> morning all
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[08:25] <edmoore> managing audio devices in win 7 is like pulling teeth
[08:35] <Randomskk> edmoore: hi
[08:35] <Randomskk> about to go to work though
[08:35] <edmoore> not there already?
[08:35] <edmoore> lazy bugger
[08:35] <Randomskk> flexible hours :P
[08:36] <Randomskk> plus 10 to 6 skips out all the traffic
[08:39] <edmoore> true dat
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[09:06] <Upu> morning
[09:06] <Upu> is 600 a valid shift in dl-fldigi ?
[09:06] <Upu> because it seems to be ignoring it for that n7 payload
[09:06] <WillDuckworth> i found that too
[09:07] <WillDuckworth> funnily enough i re-soldered the resistors to get mine back to 425
[09:07] <WillDuckworth> last night
[09:08] <Upu> I just changed it to 425 and its still not working
[09:10] <Upu> wierd
[09:11] <cuddykid> mine was near 800 lol
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[09:13] <number10> anyone got any opinions on the Tonna 20909 70cm 9 el yagi
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[09:25] <Upu> fixed it
[09:26] <fsphil> Upu, the 600hz shift was added my myself
[09:26] <Upu> yeah but if you generate a config using the payload generator
[09:26] <Upu> and set 600
[09:26] <Upu> and autoconfigure it gets '23'
[09:26] <Upu> and I don't know why I just tabbed out the XML and it works fine now
[09:27] <fsphil> autoconfigure does it wrong, expects a fixed list
[09:27] <fsphil> anything less than 600 will work fine
[09:27] <Upu> seems to work ok now
[09:27] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Payload XML"
[09:27] <Upu> ----/\
[09:28] <fsphil> it will not work on older versions of dl-fldigi than the latest
[09:28] <Upu> ok
[09:28] <fsphil> it'll pick the next shift up
[09:28] <Upu> sure there is something wrong with the generator
[09:28] <fsphil> is the xml storing the actual shift value in hz?
[09:29] <Upu> yeah
[09:29] <Upu> [astark@ns0 listen]$ cat n7fv.xml | grep shift
[09:29] <Upu> <shift>600</shift>
[09:29] <Upu> Rob can't spell my name
[09:29] <fsphil> lol
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[09:32] <Upu> but the XML is all mushed up and not tabbed out
[09:32] <Upu> so makes it hard to debug
[09:37] <DanielRichman> if you have html tidy installed, run `tidy -indent -xml` and pipe it in. It autoformats it for you
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[09:42] <Upu> oh nice didn't know about that
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[09:51] <Laurenceb_> http://blog.level3.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Dead-Squirrelsoldiers-300x200.jpg
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[10:08] <earthshine> Morning
[10:08] <earthshine> The GPS module in that Seraphim board is a uBlox Neo 6Q GPS - does anyone know if this implements the COCAM limits correctly ?
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[10:09] <earthshine> Also, the pressure sensor is a Freescale MPXH6115A6U pressure sensor, which will measure down to 15kPa - anyone know if that will work for HAB ?
[10:10] <edmoore> earthshine: we've flown various pressure sensors that claim lower bounds but which usually carry on happily to <1kPa
[10:10] <edmoore> but of course ymmv
[10:11] <Darkside> uh oh
[10:11] <earthshine> Yeah I know they SCP1000 work slower than rated
[10:11] <Darkside> bug in mininut code
[10:11] <Darkside> -00000.2893 gets printed as 0.2893
[10:11] <earthshine> Just wondered if anyone had used this particular one - its rated lower than the SCP1000 so I guess it will work
[10:11] <edmoore> if it's just for fun comparison to gps altitude, it'll probably be fine, if you want precision measuring of outside pressure over say 100m at 35km, probaly requires something else
[10:11] <edmoore> and ublox's work fine for cocom BUT
[10:11] <edmoore> you ened to set them to airborne mode with the ubx protocol
[10:11] <earthshine> It wouldn't need to be 100% accurate, just close enough
[10:12] <edmoore> you need *
[10:12] <fsphil> sounds like ye old between -1 and 0 bug Darkside
[10:12] <earthshine> Cool thanks
[10:12] <Darkside> ok
[10:12] <Darkside> dtostrf works perfectly
[10:13] <edmoore> although the datasheet's upper limits for the ublox are wrong I think
[10:13] <edmoore> they claim to only do 100m/s vertical
[10:13] <Darkside> edmoore: i'm gonna test them today
[10:13] <Darkside> with the simulator
[10:13] <edmoore> which is sort of mach 0.4 up at that alt
[10:13] <DanielRichman> Upu: tidy appears to be a single-binary no dependencies except for libc thing. You could just scp it to your ~ if you want
[10:13] <Darkside> float values[5] = { 51.82181, 54.0055, 00000.2893, -00059.1627, -00000.2893 };
[10:13] <edmoore> but we've had them work fine to over 200m/s vertical
[10:13] <Darkside> those are my test values
[10:13] <edmoore> Darkside: oh awesome
[10:13] <Darkside> for testing the string conversion i mean
[10:13] <edmoore> please please find what the max accel and vels are
[10:13] <edmoore> that would be mega useful
[10:14] <Darkside> i'll see what i can do
[10:14] <earthshine> I'll try and obtain the datasheet
[10:14] <Darkside> so, would those values be a good test of the float to string conversion?
[10:14] <Upu> could the generator pipe it through tidy before presenting it for download ?
[10:14] <edmoore> i really really want to know how far we can actually push these units in rockets
[10:14] <edmoore> if you could program a parabola, that would be grand too
[10:14] <Darkside> edmoore: i'm not sure if the simulator simulates doppler shift
[10:15] <edmoore> wha!?!?!
[10:15] <DanielRichman> Upu: the generator is JS only. No server side stuff involved
[10:15] <Upu> k
[10:15] <edmoore> Darkside: serious? http://i.imgur.com/PWjyr.jpg
[10:16] <Upu> right I better do some real work
[10:16] <Upu> afk#
[10:16] <earthshine> Operational limits: Dynamics: 4g Alt: 50,000m Vel: 500m/s
[10:17] <edmoore> we've not tested the 50,000m limit sadly
[10:17] <edmoore> but we've certainly gone past the claimed 100m/s vertical in airborne mode
[10:18] <edmoore> i don't know if ublox 6 has the same vertical limits
[10:18] <edmoore> this was a ublox 5
[10:19] <Darkside> edmoore: it should
[10:19] <Darkside> i mean, it should simulator doppler shift
[10:19] <Darkside> ans i have a ublox 5
[10:19] <edmoore> Darkside: well, if it's _possible_ I will buy you at least 4 beers on saturday (one more than i would anyway) if you could sim our rockoon profile
[10:19] <Darkside> haha
[10:19] <Darkside> if you give me a csv of data points
[10:19] <edmoore> which is a parabola, from 28km launch, 50G acceleration to Mach 5, then coast
[10:19] <Darkside> it would be better
[10:19] <edmoore> ok, i'll see what i can do
[10:19] <Darkside> i'm not sure how well this thing can simulate stuff
[10:20] <edmoore> might have to build own own sim
[10:20] <Darkside> we're gonna set it up sometime today, not sure when
[10:20] <edmoore> that would be a laugh
[10:20] <earthshine> airborbe < 4g Max Vertical Vel: 100m/s
[10:20] <earthshine> looks like its the same
[10:20] <edmoore> earthshine: okj, so same as the ublox 5
[10:20] <edmoore> cool
[10:20] <Darkside> ok, dtostrf seems to work fine edmoore
[10:20] <Darkside> why aren't people using that? >_>
[10:20] <edmoore> well as i say, that seems to be a bit of a fib
[10:21] <edmoore> Darkside: is that meanst for me?
[10:21] <Darkside> yes
[10:21] <Darkside> i dont get whats wrong with dtostrf
[10:21] <Darkside> i do notice it has leading spaces
[10:21] <edmoore> i have no idea. i'm not involved in string manipulation on avr conversations
[10:21] <Darkside> ahh :P
[10:21] <Darkside> fsphil:
[10:22] <edmoore> i sit there smugly on my arm7 hillock
[10:22] <GW8RAK> number10 - saw your post about Tonna aerials. Don't have the 9 ele, got a 21, but they are quite competent aerials. Not the best, but therefore cheaper and a definitely better than some.
[10:22] <fsphil> I just use integers all the way
[10:22] <edmoore> number10: we have 2 x tonna 9 els
[10:22] <Darkside> edmoore: i'm getting there dammit
[10:22] <edmoore> they've been great for us
[10:22] <Darkside> i've got a cortex M3 board on the way
[10:22] <GW8RAK> You wouldn't go far wrong with them.
[10:23] <edmoore> but they don't fit across a car parcel shelf
[10:23] <edmoore> so maybe something smaller would be more useful for chasing
[10:23] <fsphil> the diamond 10-el doesn't fit in the back of the car either
[10:23] <fsphil> my car anyway, but then it's tiny
[10:23] <edmoore> a phased stack of 4 x 4-els would be a) silly
[10:23] <edmoore> and b) cool
[10:24] <edmoore> on a portable tripod az/el tracker
[10:24] <edmoore> i need something good but deployable for the attic room window on my new house
[10:24] <edmoore> it's in oxford and has a good view of most uk flights, radio-wise
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[10:25] <edmoore> and they have one of those velus skylight/windows in the attack room that would be ideal for hanging something out of
[10:25] <edmoore> might makle a fun wee project
[10:25] <edmoore> velux*
[10:25] <GW8RAK> No edmoore, this is cool http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk/10GHzeme/aerialdish.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk/10GHzeme/10ghz_eme_station_g3wdg.htm&h=325&w=535&sz=45&tbnid=h8_9Q8qBTzL-PM:&tbnh=66&tbnw=108&prev=/search%3Fq%3Deme%2Baerials%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=eme+aerials&docid=2vDo97n4elXwqM&sa=X&ei=j61DTpzdE4mx8gP
[10:25] <GW8RAK> y6rnsBQ&ved=0CCwQ9QEwAw&dur=539
[10:25] <number10> thanks GW8RAK, and edmoore, I was looking for something that could be used either mobile or at home
[10:25] <edmoore> GW8RAK: lol ok you win
[10:25] <GW8RAK> Where did that long link come from? It's wasn't that long when I copied it.
[10:26] <rjharrison> ping Upu
[10:26] <edmoore> number10: ok - obviously check yourtself as to what you can fit in the car but i would say something more like 5-6 -el
[10:26] <Upu> pong
[10:26] <rjharrison> fixed account
[10:26] <Upu> thanks
[10:26] <edmoore> which is still plenty if you have LoS
[10:26] <rjharrison> a = i
[10:26] <Upu> yeah :)
[10:26] <number10> cheers edmoore
[10:26] <rjharrison> sudo
[10:26] <rjharrison> too
[10:26] <Upu> oh thanks very much
[10:27] <rjharrison> & titdy now
[10:27] <rjharrison> tidy
[10:27] <Upu> oh did you move all the xmls ?
[10:27] <rjharrison> not yet
[10:27] <Upu> hmm I can't login
[10:27] <Upu> 1 sec
[10:28] <Darkside> ok, i'm gonna test out with dtostrf
[10:28] <Darkside> i mean, run my payload with that
[10:28] <Darkside> and see what happens
[10:29] <GW8RAK> Of course some people take aerials to the extreme http://www.k5qe.com/2meme.html
[10:30] <fsphil> biggest setup I had was the 2x phased 10-el diamonds. decided it was too much for chasing :)
[10:30] <edmoore> GW8RAK: we looked at getting one of the 1-mile-array 25m dishes back into operation at cambridge
[10:30] <edmoore> but it would have just needed more pennies than we had
[10:30] <GW8RAK> oooooh, now that would be cool.
[10:30] <fsphil> yea do that lol
[10:31] <GW8RAK> Some tests were done back in the 70's on dishes for 70cm being chicken wire staked out in a parabola for single direction comms. 20m wide apertures were easy and were successful on eme
[10:32] <edmoore> nice
[10:32] <GW8RAK> Changing the subject, does anyone use Paint shop pro?
[10:33] <edmoore> 1999 called
[10:34] <edmoore> actually i did use it a coupel of years ago
[10:34] <edmoore> but only for some basic things
[10:36] <rjharrison> GW8RAK, try the GIMP
[10:38] <GW8RAK> Isn't that Linux only? Or am I showing my ignorance?
[10:38] <rjharrison> showing :-)
[10:38] <GW8RAK> Just googled, okay, I'm ignorant
[10:39] <GW8RAK> I've heard that it's good, but at the same time a bit quirky. But then all graphics manipulation ones are.
[10:40] <rjharrison> It's free whichi is nice but yes it's quirky
[10:40] <fsphil> it's got a cluttered interface
[10:40] <GW8RAK> I've got a blue logo on a white background and all I want to do is swap the two around.
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[10:45] <edmoore> Have you tried turning it off an on again?
[10:46] <fsphil> failing that hitting it might help
[10:46] <fsphil> often works with printers
[10:56] <codetiger> Hi guys, After a long gap I could finally proceed in my HAB project after great help from you guys. Thanks a lot to everyone here. I would like to repay for this help in some way. So let me know if you guys need any help I could do it from India. Actually am a software developer currently working on iPhone and Mac OSX. If you need any help in software development, Just send and email to nharishankar@gmail.com
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[10:58] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: Upu: so the payload generator not indenting the XML makes fldigi not parse it correctly?
[10:58] <Randomskk> :|
[10:58] <Randomskk> that seems.. a bit odd
[10:58] <Randomskk> whitespace isn't meant to be significant in XML :P
[11:00] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: that raises a point though, we need dl-fldigi to parse json payload configs as well as post to couch
[11:08] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: indeed we do
[11:08] <Randomskk> however that's just a case of using whatever json library we use for couch
[11:08] <Randomskk> so no biggie
[11:08] <DanielRichman> personally I think it'd also be good to keep what it currently does, which is download all the configs at startup. That way if you lose internet connectivity you can still reconfigure. It also caches them so if it starts up withotu connectivity it uses the last know configs it had.
[11:08] <DanielRichman> Indeed.
[11:08] <Randomskk> yea, sure - just hit a couch view "get all payloads"
[11:08] <Randomskk> or rather
[11:08] <fsphil> there's plenty of json libraries in the wild
[11:09] <Randomskk> "all flight docs for future or sandbox flights"
[11:09] <DanielRichman> XML SAX parsing is a massive PITA. I think that's why it's buggy.
[11:09] <Randomskk> fsphil: we were thinking of yajl
[11:09] <DanielRichman> yajl is SAX-y with its stream callbacks stuff :S
[11:09] <Randomskk> hmm
[11:09] <fsphil> Randomskk, just looking at that one - agreed
[11:09] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I believe yajl also works nicely for just normal parsing and is fast at doing it?
[11:09] <DanielRichman> can't we just use a nice C++ equivilant to loads() that lets you then access a dict-like object with subscripts?
[11:10] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: IDK
[11:10] <Randomskk> yes that would be fine
[11:10] <Randomskk> any suggestions? :P
[11:10] <DanielRichman> speed is not an issue though. fldigi burns up cpu cycles :P
[11:10] <DanielRichman> haha
[11:10] <DanielRichman> I believe you linked me one a while ago. Something to do with json being valid YML
[11:10] <Randomskk> http://json.org has a big list
[11:10] <DanielRichman> you had a yml parser that did that (?)
[11:10] <Randomskk> there are tons
[11:10] <Randomskk> oh
[11:10] <Randomskk> yamlcpp I think
[11:11] <Randomskk> I think I used it for
[11:11] <Randomskk> oh it was a uni project that's not on my github
[11:11] <Randomskk> but yes
[11:11] <Randomskk> I have usedy aml-cpp, it's okay
[11:11] <Randomskk> there's like tons of json-only ones that are probably better for json data though
[11:12] <DanielRichman> http://jsoncpp.sourceforge.net/ look at this; really easy
[11:12] <DanielRichman> parse()
[11:12] <DanielRichman> then
[11:12] <DanielRichman> data["key"]
[11:12] <Randomskk> sorted
[11:12] <Randomskk> that, then
[11:13] <Randomskk> yajl in ruby implements a parse() kinda thing which makes it quite happy but I have no strong preference
[11:13] <Randomskk> and we're already c++ so no problem there
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[11:13] <Randomskk> however that's definitely a thing to do after the current three things are done :P
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[11:13] <Randomskk> I will get those two genpayload xml generation bugs fixed this evening though - that it doesn't output mode and that it spells delimiter incorrectly
[11:14] <DanielRichman> ;-) unless we can be persuaded to Just Embed Python in the damn thing
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[11:14] <Randomskk> hah
[11:14] <Randomskk> probably more effort than utility at this point
[11:14] <fsphil> madness :p
[11:14] <Randomskk> besides with any luck we'll have ed's sexy new decoder written entirely in python
[11:14] <DanielRichman> ya but it's all about future planning with that
[11:14] <DanielRichman> true
[11:14] <Randomskk> at which point actually your python uploader module will be very handy
[11:14] <edmoore> that's stilla research project
[11:15] <DanielRichman> remind me to install PyPy at some point
[11:15] <DanielRichman> is it really as fast as claimed ?
[11:15] <edmoore> i still don't fully understand all the maths i need
[11:16] <edmoore> DanielRichman: i think it's very yest-case sensitive, but in general yes it seems to be pretty sooper
[11:16] <edmoore> especially at speeding up loops
[11:16] <DanielRichman> are we talking about speedups for the JIT compiler or the translate-to-C-then-compile-to-native thing
[11:17] <Randomskk> they have a benchmark page that would seem to indicate massive speedups almost across the board
[11:17] <edmoore> i still don't think they do low hanging fruit tho like distriuting maps across available cores
[11:18] <Randomskk> python and concurrency remains :(
[11:18] <Randomskk> I would like to try stackless python
[11:18] <Randomskk> EVE use it for their game server and client which is actually kinda cool
[11:18] <edmoore> kill GIL
[11:19] <edmoore> a new film by quentin taratiterator
[11:19] <DanielRichman> PyPy has a GIL :-(
[11:20] <edmoore> i'm still not sure if the fsk decoder will manage real-time in C
[11:20] <edmoore> sorry, inpython
[11:21] <Randomskk> just need faster hardware huh :P
[11:22] <Randomskk> haha but seriously
[11:22] <edmoore> i figured out a better way of arranging the problem (this is the annoying thing about these bayesian ingerence problems - there are several ways to skin a cat, choices of doing things in time or frequency domains or indeed some other random basis function space) and i've really no idea what the complexity will be yet
[11:22] <Randomskk> probably not worth embedding python in dl-fldigi just yet
[11:22] <edmoore> nope
[11:22] <Randomskk> I realise it's not really a "faster cpu please" problem
[11:24] <edmoore> but i'm pretty sure this new way will be more robust as you don't really need to know the mark and space frequencies
[11:27] <edmoore> i really need an entire day and a lot of chai tea
[11:27] <edmoore> and silence
[11:27] <edmoore> basically a PhD
[11:27] <Randomskk> haha
[11:27] <edmoore> to try and get to grips with the maths of this
[11:28] <edmoore> i get home from work and grab a beer and it's all down hill
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[11:29] <Randomskk> yea, it's really hard to do very complicated work at home after a day of work :|
[11:30] <Darkside> attempting to boot the gps sim now
[11:30] <Darkside> its being difficult
[11:31] <fsphil> I prefer doing the complicated work at home
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[11:34] <codetiger> Did anyone try Controlled HAB, like taking it around the globe?
[11:34] <codetiger> wondering if its possible
[11:35] <Darkside> possible i'm sure
[11:35] <Darkside> but bloody difficult
[11:35] <codetiger> Like a small reserve cylinder with extra helium to add and remove some gas.
[11:36] <codetiger> by just altering altitude it should be possible, I guess. Using the jet stream
[11:37] <codetiger> But what kind of balloon can hold the payload at an altitude, in that case.
[11:39] <codetiger> @Darkside Anyone tried it before?
[11:42] <Darkside> nfi
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[11:44] <edmoore> codetiger: have a liike at whitestarballoon.com
[11:44] spacekitteh (~TraumaPon@124-171-195-77.dyn.iinet.net.au) left irc:
[11:44] <edmoore> they are trying to go from the usa across the atlantic to europe or africa
[11:45] <edmoore> dan-k2vol or zuph are the two guys on this chat forum that run that
[11:45] <edmoore> codetiger: also nasa often send balloons up for missions lasting several weeks around the poles
[11:47] <codetiger> I've read NASA has done it. With some thing hanging for 10kms to use the Jetstream to move. However, am eager if there is cheaper option for hoobyist
[11:47] <codetiger> :P Anyway. It should be too much for me to think right now. May be if my first HAB is a success, then I'll try to think about this
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> To do it 'right' - you basically need a sealed envelope, and a pump to pump the gas in and out of a ballast chamber
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> this is expensive power-wise
[11:48] <codetiger> @edmoore thanks for the link. it looks exciting
[11:48] <edmoore> codetiger: look at the whitestar balloon project
[11:48] <edmoore> they are doing it
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> If you want to do it long-term, not just with ballast
[11:48] <edmoore> and they are amateurs
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[12:00] <fsphil> anyone bother with the "non-flammable compressed gas" sticker for their car when transporting helium?
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[12:02] <edmoore> fsphil: nope
[12:02] <fsphil> k
[12:02] <fsphil> friend goes scuba diving, had one on the back. got me wondering
[12:02] <edmoore> but i think if you're going under a tunnel you really need to
[12:02] <edmoore> or a ferry, say
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[12:04] <fsphil> neither very likely here
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[12:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oix6sHKzOLU
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> I think I linked that before.
[12:06] <SpeedEvil> Insane.
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
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[12:21] <edmoore> Randomskk: from reading about standing desks
[12:21] <edmoore> 'sitting all day increases the chances of death'
[12:21] <Upu> hey Randomskk I don't know if the indents (or lack of) are breaking it, I just padded it out to debug it and didn't otherwise change the content just for the RTTY bit and that fixed it
[12:22] <Randomskk> edmoore: yea I saw that
[12:22] <edmoore> i do wonder about people, sometimes
[12:22] <Randomskk> apparently humans were not designed to sit all day, or something
[12:22] <Randomskk> and that leads to, you know, cancer, and illness, and death
[12:22] <edmoore> i am more amused by the statistics fail
[12:23] <Randomskk> perhaps you should do a proper study :P
[12:23] <Randomskk> I imagine people whose jobs involve not sitting all day are potentially even more likely to have a dangerous job, that said
[12:23] <Randomskk> sitting is fairly safe, short-term.
[12:23] <Randomskk> unless you're like, sitting in a tank
[12:23] <Randomskk> in a warzone
[12:23] <edmoore> but it doesn't increasee the chances of you dying
[12:23] <fsphil> holding a bee hive
[12:24] <Randomskk> no, true
[12:24] <Randomskk> the chances of you dying are quite fixed
[12:24] <edmoore> the probability of you dying is 1
[12:24] <edmoore> there is no where to go from there
[12:24] <SpeedEvil> Assuming the medical singularity doesn't hit in your lifetime
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[12:25] <Randomskk> if it does I'm gonna regret all this sitting :P
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[12:28] <SamSilver> bloody Lazy-Boys must be lethal
[12:28] <codetiger> I recently saw a website that helps to estimate the landing site. But missed the url now. Any idea for similar calculations to estimate lansing site..
[12:29] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/predict/
[12:29] <Randomskk> http://habhub.org/predict
[12:29] <Randomskk> bah :P
[12:29] <Darkside> snap
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[12:33] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
[12:34] <Upu> hi
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[12:38] <number10> elo
[12:40] <fsphil> o/
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[12:41] <fsphil> someone just brought in an NEC PC-8300. about 15 years old but I want one :)
[12:43] <number10> why?
[12:44] <fsphil> it's cute
[12:45] <fsphil> urg, microsoft basic
[12:45] <fsphil> maybe not
[12:46] <number10> lol
[12:48] <number10> my first PC : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangerine_MICROTAN_65
[12:52] <fsphil> cool!
[12:52] <fsphil> hehe, 750khz processor
[12:54] <number10> built it myself and made up a 48k memory card with 2114s on a double eurocard. must have been mad
[12:55] <Darkside> $$DARKSIDE,68,13:51:02, -89.99999, 90.45387,1,0,10;30;986.21;427*4A57
[12:56] <Darkside> that is AWESOME
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[12:57] <fsphil> cold up there Darkside?
[12:57] <fsphil> or down there I should say
[12:57] <Darkside> $$DARKSIDE,100,13:53:10, -89.98671, 2.07749,0,359,10;29;986.21;428*5065
[12:57] <Darkside> bahahaha
[12:58] <edmoore> Randomskk: https://picasaweb.google.com/spolsky/FogCreekSNewOffice#5285319621209586834
[12:58] <Darkside> edmoore: ^
[12:58] <edmoore> i think it's the same painfully hip guy
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[12:58] <Darkside> GRR
[12:58] <Darkside> i really want this to show up lol
[12:58] <Randomskk> so painfully hip
[12:58] <Randomskk> reckon he's their most photogenic programmer?
[13:00] <Darkside> whats the listen link again?
[13:00] <Darkside> as in, to show raw payload dta?
[13:00] <edmoore> probably not much of a boast
[13:00] <edmoore> roberbharrison.org/listen/view.php
[13:01] <edmoore> but without all my typos
[13:01] <fsphil> it's appearing in the raw data
[13:01] <fsphil> http://robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[13:01] <Darkside> how about for just one payload
[13:01] <Darkside> so i dont have to deal with that MASSIVE page
[13:01] <edmoore> lol, Randomskk : https://picasaweb.google.com/spolsky/FogCreekSNewOffice#5285319644770315698
[13:01] <fsphil> yar it's a bit big
[13:01] <Darkside> hm, the lines are there
[13:01] <edmoore> i think he is actually the model for all the setup shots
[13:01] <Darkside> but its not showing on spacenear.us
[13:01] <Darkside> any idea why?
[13:01] <Darkside> does it not like the spaces around the lat/lond data?
[13:02] <fsphil> there might be sanity checks
[13:02] <fsphil> or that
[13:02] <Randomskk> try posting some data to the test page
[13:02] <Randomskk> with debug
[13:02] <Randomskk> it tells you why it's sad
[13:02] <Darkside> link
[13:02] <Randomskk> can't remember off the top of my head, try test.php? something like that
[13:03] <fsphil> you'll see the server output on the console
[13:03] <fsphil> from dl-fldigi
[13:03] <Darkside> SUCCESS: Expecting 8 fields, received 8 fields
[13:03] <Darkside> hmm
[13:03] <Darkside> probably sanite checks
[13:03] <fsphil> might be the white space too
[13:04] <fsphil> looks bad anyway :p
[13:04] <Randomskk> do you have a habitat flight doc? could see if habitat is parsing it :P
[13:05] <Darkside> i'll sort out the white space
[13:05] <Darkside> still
[13:05] <Darkside> this is pretty illarious
[13:05] <Darkside> hillarious*
[13:06] <Darkside> anyone have a float to string function that works well?
[13:07] <Zuph> sprintf? :-p
[13:08] <fsphil> I've a fixed point integer to string function, but that's no help :)
[13:09] <Darkside> dtostrf works
[13:09] <Darkside> but it puts spaces in front
[13:09] <Darkside> i could try and remove the spaces
[13:10] <edmoore> Randomskk: he's back again: https://picasaweb.google.com/spolsky/FogCreekSNewOffice#5285319827331223186
[13:10] <edmoore> lets poach him for a startup
[13:10] <edmoore> and take lots of pictures of him
[13:10] <Randomskk> haha
[13:10] <Randomskk> sure to succeed
[13:10] <Randomskk> do you think the hat costs extra?
[13:10] <edmoore> here he is on the stained mattress we occassionally pass out on
[13:11] <Randomskk> here he is adding to our mointain of dr pepper cans
[13:11] <edmoore> here he is pulling swarf out of his underware because the lathe is in the same room as everything else
[13:11] <Randomskk> here he is trying not to breathe the FR4 sawdust?
[13:11] <edmoore> here he is dying of asphyxiation because john has done something stupid with acids and a furnace
[13:11] <edmoore> here he is wiping mdf dust off his 17" crt monitor
[13:12] <Randomskk> here hs is unable to find a multimeter because all six are lost in this pile of stuff
[13:13] <edmoore> bit too close to home
[13:13] <Zuph> Sounds like you guys are starting a hackerspace.
[13:13] <edmoore> Zuph: the spaceflight lab has been a hackerspace for the last 5 years
[13:13] <edmoore> except we don't tell many people about it
[13:14] <edmoore> for H&S reasons
[13:14] <Randomskk> quite valid reasons really
[13:14] <edmoore> what the engineering department don't know, can't hurt them
[13:14] <Randomskk> what happened last time we got inspected?
[13:14] <Randomskk> I seem to remember something about "if you can't suceed at least act as a warning to others" and electrical plugs.. :P
[13:14] <edmoore> here he is weeping in the corner because the rf connectors box has every kind of sma connector except the one he needs
[13:15] <edmoore> here he is weeping in the corner becuase to used the wrong pcb mount sma connector, and when he tried to remove it he accidently took the pcb track off
[13:16] <Zuph> haha
[13:16] <edmoore> i'm going to get bitter in a minute
[13:16] <edmoore> time to stop
[13:16] <Randomskk> it does hit hard :P
[13:17] <edmoore> here he is deadbugging a ublox 5 onto the pcb footprint for a venus
[13:17] <Randomskk> here he is drilling into a pcb to break the track in an inner layer which is causing a short
[13:17] <edmoore> he he is covering that area with lots of electrical tape so he doesn't have to look at it
[13:18] <Randomskk> here he is inhaling three hours worth of soldering fumes because we're too hip for ventilation
[13:19] <SamSilver> hey have you guys got a spycam in my lab?
[13:19] <edmoore> here he is looking at a fully inflated 3kg balloon rocketting off into the sky, complete with a bit of fill rig, while he holds the broken other end of fill rig, on the 3rd failed attempt in as many days to do a tethered 3kg balloon test, having done 100hrs work in 5 days
[13:20] <edmoore> he actually is weeping at this point
[13:21] <edmoore> and wondering how he's going to find £30k to repay the customer because he's totally abandoning this bloody project right bloody now
[13:21] <Randomskk> 13:16:16 edmoore> i'm going to get bitter in a minute
[13:21] <Randomskk> 13:16:17 edmoore> time to stop
[13:22] <edmoore> deep breathes
[13:22] <Randomskk> stay calm
[13:22] <edmoore> what doesn't kill you
[13:22] <Randomskk> maybe have some chocolate
[13:22] <edmoore> but jesus, worst summer of my life
[13:22] <edmoore> totally not worth it
[13:23] <edmoore> at least i made a lot of mistakes in a fairly short space of time while i'm still young
[13:23] <edmoore> a good learning opportunity
[13:23] <Zuph> Fail early, fail often.
[13:23] <edmoore> for the full info folks, come and listen to my talk at habcon.
[13:23] <edmoore> now that i've sold it so well
[13:23] <Darkside> look at the tracker
[13:23] <Darkside> NOW
[13:24] <Darkside> $$DARKSIDE,138,13:25:47,51.37894,-2.34969,49781,4,12;31;986.29;426*5505
[13:24] <Darkside> YEAHHHH
[13:24] <Darkside> :P
[13:24] <edmoore> you're in the sea
[13:24] <Randomskk> edmoore: I hope you have a suitably pithy and woeful tagline for the talk
[13:24] <Zuph> That's a mighty fast balloon
[13:24] <Darkside> haha
[13:25] <edmoore> Randomskk: i'll think of something
[13:25] <edmoore> ESA wonderful life
[13:25] <Darkside> i don't think the simulatot likes what we're doing to it
[13:25] <edmoore> perhaps
[13:25] <Darkside> we couldn't get it into space mode so its in aircraft mode instead
[13:26] <Randomskk> haha excellent
[13:27] <Darkside> bahaha
[13:27] <Darkside> it lost lock due to a massive change in altitude
[13:27] <Darkside> i.e. to ohigh acceleration
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[13:30] <fsphil> does it have to be in aircraft mode to work at 30km?
[13:30] <fsphil> always wondered that
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[13:31] <Darkside> edmoore: what max acceleration
[13:31] <Darkside> did you want to test
[13:31] <Darkside> WUICK
[13:31] <Darkside> we're about to test
[13:31] <edmoore> erm, well see what the ublox can do
[13:31] <edmoore> see it's it's 4 as per datasheet or 5 or something
[13:31] <Darkside> we';; try 400
[13:32] <Darkside> we'll try*
[13:32] <edmoore> and also if you could do mach 5 upwards but with 1g deceleration
[13:32] <edmoore> ie coast after burn
[13:32] <edmoore> that would be great
[13:36] <cuddykid> cutdown made out of loo roll tube worked great in tests yesterday!
[13:36] <Darkside> eroomde: we're having fun working out how to make it work atm
[13:36] <Darkside> lol
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[13:36] <fsphil> cuddykid, huh?
[13:36] <Darkside> its a pain to setup
[13:37] <Darkside> currently we're just trying to make it go from ground lvel to 40km at 400m/s
[13:37] <Darkside> sorry, max speed 500m/s
[13:37] <fsphil> so you're flushed with success
[13:37] <Darkside> max acceleration 400m/s/s
[13:38] <cuddykid> lol fsphil! basically its nichrome wire running through (holes in opposite sides) and then cord wrapped around it
[13:38] <cuddykid> will upload photos/vid later - the dog has destroyed my prototype lol
[13:38] <SamSilver> cuddykid: have you seen this site http://www.chucklohr.com/808/#SystemMode
[13:39] <fsphil> that excuse rarely works cuddykid :)
[13:39] <cuddykid> poo no SamSilver, looks interesting
[13:39] <NigelMoby> Hm
[13:39] <cuddykid> haha fsphil, left it out and found it in shreds on the lawn
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[13:41] <Dan-K2VOL> Good day
[13:41] <tyrosine> gday
[13:42] <Dan-K2VOL> I see you are a building block of life
[13:42] <tyrosine> guilty!
[13:42] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uhpoLJHTTc
[13:42] <Laurenceb> insnae
[13:42] <tyrosine> no video here, what is it?
[13:43] <Dan-K2VOL> where from ty
[13:43] <tyrosine> gainesville fl, UF dental school
[13:43] <tyrosine> AJ4VD
[13:43] <Darkside> ok i am launching my balloon!
[13:43] <Darkside> >_>
[13:43] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, Louisville KY here, launched any yet?
[13:43] <Dan-K2VOL> now darkside?
[13:44] <tyrosine> 2, really makeshift, working on #3 a couple months from now
[13:44] <Dan-K2VOL> nice tyrosine
[13:44] <tyrosine> #1 was a test launch, no camera, recovered easily - #2 was a real launch, not recovered, lost the camera ^_^;
[13:44] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: watch the tracker
[13:44] <Dan-K2VOL> will do!
[13:45] <Darkside> jesus christ
[13:45] <Darkside> look at the ascent rate!
[13:45] <Dan-K2VOL> woooo
[13:45] <Darkside> bahahaha
[13:45] <Darkside> 300m/s
[13:45] <fsphil> lol
[13:45] <Dan-K2VOL> she canna take it!
[13:45] <Darkside> well, acrially around 200m/s
[13:46] <Darkside> no wait
[13:46] <Darkside> 50m/s
[13:46] <Darkside> aww
[13:46] <Darkside> thats sad
[13:47] <Dan-K2VOL> um a simulation I assume?
[13:47] <Dan-K2VOL> or is your balloon rocket powered
[13:47] <Darkside> this is real gps data
[13:47] <Darkside> straight out of the uBlox module, no modification
[13:47] <Darkside> >_>
[13:47] <Randomskk> >_>
[13:48] <Dan-K2VOL> 9000 feet per minute ascent rate just isn't possible with a balloon!
[13:48] <Dan-K2VOL> it's not even possible with an airplane
[13:48] <Dan-K2VOL> maybe a jet fighter
[13:49] <cuddykid> a request for help! - could someone please look at bottom of page 15 here - http://www.lprs.co.uk/assets/files/erA3v3.pdf and then tell me what is wrong with my code as it won't change the settings properly! I'll post code
[13:49] <Dan-K2VOL> you'll be at burst in a few minutes lol
[13:49] <Dan-K2VOL> lol I think radio doppler shift would be a problem at that speed
[13:50] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/kzk5MMec
[13:51] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid what's the serial read loop
[13:51] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/SZVwk.jpg
[13:51] <Dan-K2VOL> that looks kludgy as hell
[13:51] <Dan-K2VOL> (not to criticize, but it looks like a possible source of problems)
[13:52] <Dan-K2VOL> why are there so many serial.read();s
[13:52] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: because It says to wait for the echo
[13:53] <Randomskk> Darkside: so cool
[13:53] <cuddykid> however, if I do Serial.print(Serial.read(), BYTE) - then it sends that to radio and gets no where
[13:53] <Darkside> Randomskk: :D
[13:53] <Randomskk> clearly you should put an amp and antenna on the output :P
[13:53] <cuddykid> "Wait for echo of command from module"
[13:53] <Darkside> yeah and get put in jail
[13:53] <Randomskk> haha
[13:53] <Randomskk> yea ofcom would be so displeased
[13:53] <cuddykid> can't think of any other way to wait for echo
[13:53] <Dan-K2VOL> darkside, did you make an RF GPS Sim?
[13:54] <Randomskk> Darkside: it really looks the business though
[13:54] <Darkside> i didn't make it
[13:54] <Darkside> its bade by CAST Navigation
[13:54] <Dan-K2VOL> how much was it?
[13:54] <Darkside> 40000 pounds
[13:54] <Darkside> i didn't buy it >_>
[13:54] <Darkside> its at the uni here
[13:54] <number10> you stole it? ;)
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[13:55] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: If I get rid of the serial.read() then how would I go about "waiting for the echo" ?! lol
[13:55] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid, try replacing that If serial to ACK with something like:
[13:56] <WillDuckworth> cuddykid - i think you need to put the if part as a while loop, then when serial.read send the ack
[13:56] <Dan-K2VOL> While (Serial.available() = 0) loop
[13:56] <cuddykid> cool thanks guys :)
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[13:58] <Darkside> oh man
[13:58] <Darkside> my balloon is floating
[13:58] <Darkside> at 40km altitude
[13:58] <Darkside> man
[13:58] <Dan-K2VOL> then you could just go into another loop that delays for longer than 1 character's time at that baudrate, while serial.available() > 0
[13:59] <cuddykid> arghh, it still hasn't changed it (sent command right) :(
[14:00] <Dan-K2VOL> you also need to wait until the BUSY pin says the radio is ready to listen to you
[14:01] <cuddykid> ahh right
[14:01] <cuddykid> that might be problem
[14:02] <Dan-K2VOL> looks like a nice radio
[14:02] <WillDuckworth> they've got a temp sensor in too by the looks of it
[14:02] <cuddykid> yeah
[14:03] <WillDuckworth> let us know how you get on with them cuddykid
[14:03] <WillDuckworth> i'm interested
[14:03] <WillDuckworth> 3.5 grams
[14:03] <cuddykid> can you have a quick look at this modified code - still not sure
[14:03] <Dan-K2VOL> btw thanks for asking the question with simple code and not a 10,000 line file, I wouldn't have had time to sort through a bigger file
[14:03] <cuddykid> will do!
[14:03] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/G1M2pnnm
[14:03] <Dan-K2VOL> glad to help any time I can
[14:04] <cuddykid> thanks Dan-K2VOL :)
[14:04] <Dan-K2VOL> nah that's not how I meant the loop, let me write it out
[14:04] <cuddykid> ahh, cheers :)
[14:05] <Dan-K2VOL> BTW cuddykid you might want to try NewSoftSerial for sending you debug output
[14:05] <cuddykid> will look into now
[14:07] <WillDuckworth> def - then you don't need to worry about unplugging usb cables etc (specially with gps)
[14:08] <cuddykid> yeah, unplugging the cables every time I upload to board is annoying
[14:09] <DanielRichman> http://pastie.org/private/0bufo3lb8gfpljdnhhg2g < why not read back using a loop, the same length as the command? That's the same as your old code, just with a loop instead of 9 lines.
[14:09] <DanielRichman> oh that needs an available wait thing
[14:09] <DanielRichman> sec.
[14:10] <DanielRichman> http://pastie.org/private/egy0pvvjgzclun0sdysfyg, or http://pastie.org/private/2lomggwslgqumcsgy1uw
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[14:11] <cuddykid> thanks DanielRichman :)
[14:12] <Dan-K2VOL> try this cuddykid: http://pastebin.com/FjG7CN46
[14:12] <cuddykid> cheers guys :)
[14:12] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah danielRichman's is the same idea but better
[14:13] <cuddykid> with DanielRichman's - I just replace "command" with the command like ER_CMD&. right??
[14:13] <DanielRichman> nah cuddykid; call it, it's a function
[14:13] <DanielRichman> so in loop() { you put send_command("EB_WHATEVER");
[14:14] <cuddykid> ahh right
[14:15] <DanielRichman> e.g.: http://pastie.org/private/aygii0xfokfbmvcbs1dra
[14:16] <cuddykid> got you :)
[14:17] <WillDuckworth> maybe not loop it - if it's a one time hit put it in setup maybe
[14:21] <cuddykid> wooooo! That worked - thanks guys!
[14:21] <cuddykid> I will report back when fully configured - plan on doing some range tests if possible today
[14:21] <cuddykid> :)
[14:22] <fsphil> that's always fun
[14:22] <cuddykid> also - another quick question regarding radio range - when I spoke to the guy who coded the firmware for radios he said there wasn't much difference between running them at 2400 baud with 12.5khz shift - and - 4800 baud with 25khz shift. He advised the latter, what do you guys think?
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> It depends on the architecture
[14:23] <fsphil> higher baud rate would always reduce the range surely?
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> If it can reject interference outside the 12.5khz band - then that is important
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Otherwise, it you lose a large slice of the benefit
[14:24] <cuddykid> yeah, he did mention about interference when saying 25khz was preferable - so will stick with that
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Interference and noise
[14:29] <Dan-K2VOL> what do you guys use outside of the US for PCB fabbing?
[14:29] <Dan-K2VOL> companies
[14:29] <edmoore> gold phonoenix, seeeeeeeed studio, pcb train
[14:29] <edmoore> ar ethe ones i've used
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> seeeed is really rapidly building quite a nice line of products
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> wow an NFC shield
[14:32] <edmoore> 'Several years ago I was made aware of the presence of angels during healing sessions and to further my knowledge of them I then trained as a certified Angel Therapist Practitioner with Charles Virtue and hence now offer Angel Healing and Angel Card Readings.'
[14:32] <edmoore> on a flyer delivered to the office
[14:33] <edmoore> i think we should bring back witch burning
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw - related video
[14:34] <cuddykid> radios configured :) now time to build a range testing circuit - thinking led goes off/on when out of range
[14:34] <Dan-K2VOL> nice cuddykid good luck
[14:34] <cuddykid> thanks for your help Dan-K2VOL! :)
[14:34] <fsphil> 4800 baud.. hmmm enough for very low bitrate audio :)
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> edmoore thankyou
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[14:35] <edmoore> for what?
[14:35] <edmoore> re-aligning your chakra?
[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> for the pcb refs :-P
[14:36] <edmoore> oh
[14:36] <edmoore> if your energy was in balance you'd have been able to find them yourself
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> looking for a one-stop fab, part sourcing, and assembly place for low volume, 5,000 pieces, that doesn't use Digi-Key for a part source
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> is tough
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[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[14:37] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[14:37] <edmoore> Dan-K2VOL: gold phoenix will do assembly and their own sourcing too
[14:38] <Dan-K2VOL> unfortunately they will only source from Digi-Key
[14:38] <Dan-K2VOL> I wanted to go with them, but got a quote a while back that said they will buy the parts at Digi-Key and have them shipped from the USA to China - ugh!
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> What sort of parts?
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> Are we talking LEDs, or FPGAs
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> it's a car remote transmitter, so there's a security micro, discrete RF transmitter circuit parts, an RFID coil antenna and a battery clip
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> sorry, this is off topic for balloons, it's work work
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> I should be asking over in #electronics
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> heh edmoore, maybe I need to be more firm with their salesguy
[14:43] <edmoore> it's just a business
[14:43] <edmoore> if they want your business, those are your terms
[14:44] <Dan-K2VOL> may be that
[14:46] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Screaming circuits will do it, but 5000 pieces is at the very top end of what they do.
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> You can't reengineer the car side I assume?
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> eh US fab/assembly prices are just too high for the boss
[14:50] <Darkside> whii
[14:50] <Darkside> my baloon is going up again!
[14:51] <fsphil> I think all this power has gone to Darkside's head
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> speedevil, nah, it's a finished product at this point, just looking for different manufacturer
[14:51] <Dan-K2VOL> already in production
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[14:52] <SpeedEvil> ##electronics, or #edev is probably sane
[14:52] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
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[14:52] <Darkside> fsphil: this time its going to get to 100km alttiduew
[14:52] <Darkside> altitude*
[14:53] <cuddykid> dropping the gas back now to BOC :( - still got a reasonable amount in!
[14:53] <cuddykid> annoyed they don't part refund
[14:54] <fsphil> can't use it for anything cuddykid?
[14:54] <edmoore> do a big balloon release
[14:54] <cuddykid> edmoore: done that after not selling any balloons!
[14:54] <cuddykid> fsphil: nope :S :(
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> heh cuddykid I've only had a refund once in over 40 tank rentals
[14:54] <fsphil> or do what W0OTM did, bin-bag balloon!
[14:54] <cuddykid> in fact - I did fill up a bin bag just lol
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid fill a trash bag and give it to some kids,
[14:54] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: haha
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> my neices and nephews loved it when I did that for them
[14:55] <cuddykid> will do now!
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> let them experimet with neutral buoyancy
[14:55] <fsphil> not enough that it lifts them
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> adding weights to it indoors
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[14:55] <fsphil> or pets
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> lol I do have a secret plan to make a cat-controlled airship
[14:57] <Darkside> 46km altitude..
[14:58] <Darkside> wait WTF
[14:58] <Darkside> why is the altitude capping at 40000m
[14:58] <Darkside> look at the max altitude and the Altitude number
[14:58] <Darkside> its breaking
[14:58] <Darkside> oh god
[14:58] <Darkside> the ublox just lost lock
[14:58] <Darkside> eroomde:
[14:58] <Darkside> it lost lock at 51520m
[14:59] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm intersting, don't use that on your cubesat
[14:59] <Darkside> heh yep
[14:59] <Darkside> we're using a different one
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> what's the upper limit on your simulator's valid altitude range
[15:00] <Darkside> man this is sad, i won't see what ahppens to the ublox module when it starts moving at 9KM/s>_>
[15:00] <Darkside> no idea
[15:00] <Darkside> high
[15:01] <edmoore> Darkside: interesting
[15:01] <edmoore> about right
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[15:08] <Darkside> $$DARKSIDE,361,05:45:57,51.00857,-2.00003,0,1531,10;30;986.41;423*6BC4
[15:08] <Darkside> $$DARKSIDE,362,05:46:01,51.00857,-2.00003,0,1531,0;30;986.44;422*D488
[15:08] <Darkside> see the field that went from 10 to 1
[15:08] <Darkside> 10 to 0 i mean
[15:08] <Darkside> thats the number of sats
[15:08] <Darkside> i.e., it just lost lock
[15:10] <Darkside> but it detected itself moving at 1500km/hr before that >_>
[15:10] <Darkside> i.e. 419m/s
[15:10] <Darkside> so it lost lock at 500m/s, just as expected
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[15:22] <NigeyS> hrm woops ignore my chase car on the tracker..lol
[15:22] <fsphil> careful, it might get clamped
[15:22] <NigeyS> lols
[15:23] <NigeyS> phil did you send that ntx2 standard mail or recorded ?
[15:23] <fsphil> just standard I think
[15:23] <fsphil> first class
[15:24] <NigeyS> okies, i dont have to get up silly early to sign for it then :D
[15:24] <fsphil> should have arrive today actually
[15:24] <fsphil> *d
[15:24] <NigeyS> hmm nope, only my copper tape turned up today
[15:24] <fsphil> ooh any good?
[15:24] <NigeyS> just going to try it now
[15:25] <NigeyS> just stick it to the antenna base you think ?
[15:26] <fsphil> not sure
[15:28] <NigeyS> soon find out
[15:28] <NigeyS> when my iccle yellow light goes off and starts blinking
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[15:31] <NigeyS> hi Steve
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil give em the clamps!
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL> (futurama reference)
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[16:08] <jcoxon> evening
[16:08] <NigeyS> evening James
[16:10] <NigeyS> jcoxon, where did you put the antenna for the lassen? inside or outside the payload box ?
[16:16] <jcoxon> inside
[16:16] <NigeyS> and no problems getting a lock ?
[16:17] <jcoxon> well
[16:17] <jcoxon> it is a lassen
[16:17] <NigeyS> hehe yeah, its not liking getting a lock here, taking hours even with copper tape as a groundplane
[16:18] <jcoxon> backup battery?
[16:18] <NigeyS> going to fit 1, actually while ure here, what size is the holder on the breakout ?
[16:21] <jcoxon> eeek
[16:21] <jcoxon> not sure i remember
[16:25] <NigeyS> no worries
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[16:37] <jcoxon> ping Upu
[16:37] <Upu> pong
[16:37] <Upu> evening
[16:37] <jcoxon> just having a look at the shift issues
[16:37] <Upu> yeah
[16:37] <jcoxon> so if you get a 23 shift its just a parsing issue
[16:38] <jcoxon> or you are using a non-standard shift
[16:38] <Upu> yup I suspected as much
[16:38] <Upu> yep
[16:38] <Upu> the shift was 600 though and I also tried 425
[16:38] <jcoxon> i think our plan is to actually switch everyone to custom shift
[16:38] <jcoxon> then we can define what ever we want
[16:38] <jcoxon> but custom shift is a relatively new feature
[16:38] <Upu> would avoid errors
[16:39] <Upu> I think the issue is the code generated doesn't seem to work properly when uploaded
[16:39] <jcoxon> oh i see
[16:39] <jcoxon> fair enough
[16:49] <number10> Hi guys I am a bit new to this - I gather the payload xml is on the dl server for each ballon - for a new balloon how does it get there?
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[16:51] <jcoxon> number10, couple of options
[16:51] <jcoxon> there is an online generator
[16:51] <jcoxon> and then we have to upload it to the server
[16:51] <jcoxon> or you can edit one by hand
[16:52] <number10> and to get it on the server by email?
[16:52] <jcoxon> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/pico.xml
[16:52] <jcoxon> yeah you can email it to the ukhas mailing list
[16:52] <number10> thanks jcoxon
[16:54] <fsphil> jcoxon, I just pushed a patch to set the shift using the custom shift option
[16:55] <jcoxon> oh cool
[16:55] <fsphil> turned out to be a simple change
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[16:58] <jcoxon> oh cool
[16:58] <jcoxon> okay
[16:59] <jcoxon> was that the last thing we planned to change before release?
[16:59] <NigeyS> fsphil, http://twitpic.com/64ghu4 best i can do .. no lock yet
[17:00] <fsphil> not sure, I'd also like to add a sanity check when loading the payload xml - a missing string field causes a crash
[17:00] <jcoxon> NigeyS, is it outside?
[17:00] <jcoxon> put it outside with the lid off
[17:01] <jcoxon> once its got a lock then put the lid back on
[17:01] <NigeyS> window sill, its been getting a lock on this window in about 25mins
[17:01] <jcoxon> the other issue is the lining of the box
[17:01] <jcoxon> in some ways you are restricting the view of the gps
[17:01] <NigeyS> oh
[17:02] <NigeyS> its non cunductiv mind
[17:02] <NigeyS> e*
[17:02] <fsphil> stopped raining, brb doggie walk :)
[17:10] <RocketBoy> niftylettuce:
[17:10] <RocketBoy> ooops
[17:10] <RocketBoy> NigeyS: PM
[17:12] <Darkside> hmm
[17:13] <NigeyS> hehe oki
[17:14] <NigeyS> jcoxon, nope its not liking the copper tape outside.. a rethink on antennas i think
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[17:14] <Darkside> NigeyS: gps problems?
[17:15] <NigeyS> yeah the lassens antenna i playing up
[17:16] <Darkside> oh yay
[17:16] <Darkside> fucking lassen IQ..
[17:17] <NigeyS> lol
[17:17] <NigeyS> the module is ok, it seems the antenna is just .. shit
[17:17] <Darkside> yep
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[18:22] <RocketBoy> NigeyS: I have never had any real problem with the IQ antenna - you have got it mounted on a ground-plane haven't you?
[18:26] Lunar_Lander (~Miranda@p54A07AE2.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:31] <cuddykid> with regards to NewSoftSerial - when you declare the pins e.g. (4, 5) is 4 the input and 5 the output?
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[18:33] <Darkside> only use NewSoftSerial if you absolutely have to
[18:33] <cuddykid> yeah, I do :(
[18:33] <Darkside> what are you using through it?
[18:33] <Darkside> not the GPS i hope...
[18:33] <cuddykid> unfortunately only got 1 hardware serial on my arduino
[18:33] <cuddykid> noo, radio
[18:33] <Darkside> if its transmit on, then its ok
[18:34] <Darkside> only*
[18:34] <cuddykid> and receive on another arduino
[18:35] <cuddykid> NOOOOOOO.. arduino software froze on me :@
[18:36] <Darkside> heh, that happens
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid you could use newsoftserial for your debug output
[18:36] <cuddykid> it's unbelievably annoying! especially when I have unsaved sketches
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> it doesn't receive higher than 57600 baud
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi Darkside Dan-K2VOL cuddykid
[18:37] <Dan-K2VOL> Edit sketches in a different editor cuddykid, use Notepad++ for win or TextWrangler on mac, for example
[18:37] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: which is the rx and which is tx when declaring - say (4, 5) ?
[18:37] <Dan-K2VOL> ah I always forget
[18:37] <cuddykid> hi Lunar_Lander
[18:37] <Dan-K2VOL> but I think it's TX first
[18:37] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL, no probs!
[18:42] <cuddykid> lost all my code :(
[18:42] <cuddykid> despite lions effort to autosave lol
[18:43] <cuddykid> brings back the windows.. but no code
[18:43] <Dan-K2VOL> aww that sucks
[18:43] <Dan-K2VOL> at least you have the pastebins
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[18:44] <cuddykid> yeah, just grabbing them now! .. and saving!
[18:48] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, yups, i think its just being a bit over sensitive
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> hi daveake RocketBoy NigeyS
[18:48] <NigeyS> hi Lunar_Lander
[18:48] <NigeyS> bbs dinner time!
[18:48] <daveake> hi LL. Just eating so I'll be quiet :)
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[19:03] <cuddykid> and it's crashed again.. every time I go to open serial monitor..
[19:05] <cuddykid> and again!
[19:08] <cuddykid> found problem - didn't have a delay in the code - so the serial monitor was getting pounded!
[19:09] <fsphil> still, shouldn't crash
[19:09] <Darkside> oh, it does :-)
[19:09] <Darkside> i've experienced this one myself
[19:09] <cuddykid> lol
[19:09] <cuddykid> stupid program!
[19:10] <cuddykid> hmm, not having luck with the radios atm
[19:10] <NigeyS> ya it kinda gets bogged down stupidly easily
[19:14] <fsphil-laptop> Upu, about?
[19:20] fsphil-laptop (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:219:d2ff:fe09:a6b9) left irc: Quit: wham
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[19:28] <Upu> ping fsphil
[19:28] <Upu> am now
[19:28] <Darkside> also guys.. dtostrf works fine to convert floats to strings
[19:28] <Darkside> it just has whitespace at teh start, which you need to strip out
[19:29] <Upu> check for padding errors
[19:29] <Darkside> already did
[19:29] <Upu> k
[19:29] <Darkside> i used stuff like 55.0055 and -0.0095 as test cases
[19:29] <Darkside> no problems
[19:29] <fsphil> Upu, can you readd that typo to the payload xml for a second, want to test a change I made to handle missing strings
[19:29] <Upu> err should be able too
[19:29] <Darkside> dtostrf is a C builtin so it should be reasonably good
[19:29] <Upu> 1 sec
[19:31] <Upu> done fsphil
[19:31] <Upu> called fsphil_test
[19:32] <Upu> thats with the spelling error, missing mode and the broken shift and it causes my dl-fldigi to crash
[19:32] <Upu> Raw data : http://pastebin.com/5jft5sLV
[19:32] <fsphil> dl_fldigi: removing payload 'fsphil_test'... missing data from XML
[19:32] <fsphil> worked
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[19:33] <fsphil> what payload is before and after it, just to make sure it's not removing too much
[19:33] <rjharrison> Hi guys
[19:33] <Upu> hey Rob
[19:33] <NigeyS> evening Rob
[19:33] <Upu> spam :
[19:33] <Upu> -rw-r--r-- 1 jonsowman jonsowman 5924 May 24 19:57 eos01.xml
[19:33] <Upu> -rw-rw-r-- 1 astirk astirk 1166 Aug 11 20:04 fsphil_test.xml
[19:33] <Upu> -rw-rw-r-- 1 jonsowman highalt 2516 Apr 10 10:56 gaga-1.xml
[19:33] <rjharrison> am i right in thinking that the googlemaps APi V3 does not rewuire a key anymore
[19:33] <rjharrison> require
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> hi rjharrison Upu GW8RAK
[19:33] <Upu> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:33] <fsphil> oops, gaga-1 is missing
[19:33] <rjharrison> Upu cool
[19:34] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> and hi fsphil
[19:34] <fsphil> howdy rjharrison n' Lunar_Lander :)
[19:34] <Upu> just sorting bugs out in dl-fldigi Rob
[19:34] <Upu> fsphil missing from the list in dl-fldigi
[19:34] <Upu> works on my version
[19:35] <rjharrison> hi fsphil
[19:40] <fsphil> there we go, gaga's back
[19:40] <Upu> whos flight is wdhab ?
[19:41] <fsphil> and a mini one too
[19:41] <Upu> yeah
[19:41] <fsphil> I've not heard of most of these payloads
[19:42] <Upu> SHUF ?
[19:42] <Upu> might start moving a few of these out but if anyone wants them back just say just moving to a backup dir
[19:43] <Upu> GPGGA ?
[19:43] <Upu> that a test one ?
[19:43] <fsphil> yea I think that was jcoxon playing about
[19:44] <Upu> Hadie ?
[19:44] <Upu> :)
[19:44] <fsphil> dunno who's that is -- silly name too
[19:45] <NigeyS> lol
[19:47] <fsphil> habitat could do some kind of automatic timeout on payloads, if the config and telemetry are more than a few months old then hide it
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[19:48] <Upu> If anyone is missing a payload let me know
[19:48] <Upu> I've just moved them into ./oldxml
[19:48] <Dan-K2VOL> Ha I have a few that should be somewhere in the Smokey Mountains upu, let me know when you have them
[19:48] <Upu> :)
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> d
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> ge
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> did you think about the pH experiment?
[19:49] <GW8RAK> Yes, I was thinking that the description of pH of an atmosphere is confusing.
[19:50] <GW8RAK> pH is a measure of the hydrogen ion concentration in water, IIRC. So the measurement of acidity in a dry atmosphere will be more a measurement of acidity potential.
[19:50] <GW8RAK> I hope
[19:51] <GW8RAK> But an interesting subject. Been trying to think of ways of measuring atmospheric acidity.
[19:51] <SpeedEvil> I don't think it has a meaning.
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Other than as the acidity it would make water in contact with it for an infinite time achieve.
[19:52] <GW8RAK> Particularly if any moisture at high altitude will be frozen.
[19:52] <GW8RAK> I wonder if there are any strong bases which lower the freezing point enough?
[19:54] <GW8RAK> The answer to Lunar's question SpeedEvil, was exactly that. The measurement of acidty in the Venusian atmosphere was done with a mass spec.
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> well
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I'm not reading backscroll properly.
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> it would have been done
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> that Venus probe did fail
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> Been doing more hauling round of insulation an relate stuff today.
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> it was one of the first one the Soviets sent out
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC the final stage did not re-ignite, stranding it in Earth Orbit
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> I'm amused that you can actually skydive to the surface on venus without major injury.
[19:55] <GW8RAK> Was that the one where the protective shield was jettisoned for the experiments and the soil penetrometer hit it?
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> Neglecting the burns and the suffocation.
[19:56] <GW8RAK> They sent a probe all the way to Venus to measure the hardness of a metal shield.
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah xD
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> that was Venera 13
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> the last but one landing probe
[19:58] <GW8RAK> The YL is asking a silly question involving the words probe and Uranus.
[20:00] Action: SpeedEvil ponders adding the phrase 'long rod penetrator' to the discussion.
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[20:04] <GW8RAK> Lunar_Lander, there was a programme on tv this week and it documented that glycol plus water was liquid to -40C. Could you build a payload light enough to suck air through the liquid?
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> you mean such light that it fits the balloon weight limit?
[20:10] <GW8RAK> yes
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> should be possible, depends on the amount of water
[20:11] <GW8RAK> 1ml
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah that should be OK
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> then a long tube
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> and a pump with motor
[20:11] <GW8RAK> micro syringe, servo etc
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> long tube because we need to sample air away from the balloon system
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> on DaVinci (big manned air pollution research balloon) they used 15m
[20:13] <GW8RAK> How to measure the chage in acidity with altitude would be the problem
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> have multiple of these cells maybe?
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> and somehow coupled to an altitude measurement
[20:15] <GW8RAK> the mechanics of changing sample vials could add a lot of weight, but you could recover them and measure pH on the ground.
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> Or you don't do this.
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> And you have a very, very fine filter.
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> Or several.
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:17] <GW8RAK> Do you have any information about "acidity" at altitude Lunar_Lander?
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> not really, you mean from literature?
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> I read a paper about a balloon spectrometer searching for HNO3 at altitude
[20:18] <GW8RAK> Is it natural or man made pollution? Yes
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> from 1968 or so
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> the acid rain is man made I would say
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> from all the sulphur emissions
[20:18] <GW8RAK> I suppose if the camera in a typical HAB was replaced with an experiment, that would allow perhaps 300g.
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> that is a thing by the way
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> I have never really thought about imaging
[20:19] <Darkside> i'm hoping to get a scintillation receiver up on a balloon sometime in the near future
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> I was more thinking about experiment devices
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, the expensive one you mean?
[20:20] <Darkside> yep
[20:20] <Darkside> hence launching in australia
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[20:20] <Darkside> less chance of something bad happening
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[20:21] <Darkside> back in a bit...
[20:22] <GW8RAK> To draw the air through the sample file, I'm thinking of a syringe at ground pressure which extends the plunger when actuated.
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK : I was always calculating with the "Nozzle Lift" value of 2.3 kg for the 1500 g balloon
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> because I was told here that this value is a good figure for the max. load
[20:22] <GW8RAK> Another syringe is couple to it and this sucks air thorugh the vial.
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:23] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[20:23] <GW8RAK> Use plastic medical syringes for a low mass. But how much air to draw through?
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> that can be calculated, if we know that a syringe has, for example, 10 mL
[20:24] <GW8RAK> Or an electric pump and draw litres of air through?
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> that is also an idea
[20:24] <GW8RAK> In order to get enough "acid" into the liquid.
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> that should work GW8RAK
[20:37] <Upu> fsphil
[20:37] <Upu> about ?
[20:37] <fsphil> Upu, yop
[20:37] <fsphil> yup too
[20:37] <Upu> dl-fldigi
[20:37] <Upu> 2 payloads on there
[20:37] <GW8RAK> just looking for a micro pump
[20:37] <Upu> avatest and avatest2
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[20:38] <Upu> avatest2 is just the XML from the payload document generator pasted straight in : http://pastebin.com/fXeKVBd9
[20:38] <Upu> if you select and autoconfigure the shift goes to 23
[20:38] <Upu> I then did :
[20:38] <Upu> [astirk@ns0 listen]$ cat avatest2.xml | tidy -i -xml > avatest.xml
[20:39] <Upu> and refreshed and selected avatest from the list
[20:39] <Upu> and shift now works
[20:39] <fsphil> hmmms
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK : yes
[20:39] <Upu> any ideas why dl-fldigi needs the XML formatting correctly and why it only affects the shift ?
[20:39] <Upu> everything else seems to be ok
[20:41] <fsphil> indeed
[20:41] <GW8RAK> Luna_Lander, just thought, to get around the problems of liquids, use tubes of activated charcoal to absorb atmospheric chemicals. Back in the lab, heat them up to release the chemicals and into a GC.
[20:41] <GW8RAK> Lunar_Lander should be.
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> that should work
[20:44] <Upu> fsphil if it helps I just put a carriage return just before <shift> and that fixes it but there must be a bug in there somewhere causing it to fail on the shift
[20:44] <Upu> avatest3 is same as avatest2 but with 1 CR in just before <shift>
[20:45] <fsphil> think I found it
[20:46] <Upu> :)
[20:47] <GW8RAK> Lunar_Lander, here is something which could be of interest http://www.sensidyne.com/colorimetric-gas-detector-tubes/detector-tubes.php?letter=S
[20:47] <fsphil> yea, it's reading and dropping whatever is after the <rtty>
[20:47] <fsphil> normally it's the newline, in this case it was eating up the <shift>
[20:48] <Upu> kill the bug
[20:48] <Upu> does it occur anywhere else ?
[20:48] <fsphil> just looking at that
[20:50] <fsphil> looks like that's the only one
[20:50] <Upu> ok another one to add to the fix list :) Thanks for looking at that
[20:50] <Upu> new version coming out soon ? :)
[20:51] <fsphil> hope so
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[20:56] <fsphil> fix pushed
[20:56] <Upu> cheers
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[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK : I also once read a paper about a sulphur filter which uses a mercury compound
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> but probably today there is something better than theat
[21:00] <GW8RAK> I think a solid absorbent would solve many problems, or use molecule specific chemical reactions.
[21:01] <GW8RAK> Possible reactants
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:02] <GW8RAK> That should be "there are many possible reactants".
[21:02] <GW8RAK> I wish I'd come across this 20 years ago when I was an analytical chemist.
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> we could have flown all kinds of filters and so on
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> do you mean that?
[21:03] <GW8RAK> I would have had loads of equipment to analyse the results with.
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:05] <GW8RAK> Right, time for bed I think. Had an early start today. I'll have a think about the ideas we've had. Night
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> wb rjharrison
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[21:26] <Laurenceb_> all the riot police round here seem to be wearing blue overalls.. very odd
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> looks like fireproof clothing
[21:26] <hibby> Laurenceb_: you right in the centre of the action?
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> im in derby
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> lots of riot police about everywhere
[21:26] <NigeyS> Laurenceb, ure correct, it's fireproof
[21:26] <hibby> they looterising in derby?
[21:27] <NigeyS> in case of petrol bombs
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> i didnt realise people would try to set them on fire
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> no i think they police have kept them all at bay
[21:27] <hibby> nice
[21:27] <hibby> Cameron's not exactly been convincing in his fight back, eh?
[21:27] <hibby> once again the government and traditional media shows a complete misunderstanding of social media and the internets
[21:28] Action: hibby gives up on bluetooth and plugs the device in
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[21:29] <Lunar_Lander4811> back
[21:29] <hibby> at the scottish football match the other day apparently they were singing "you can shove yer f*kin riots up yer arse"
[21:29] <russss> good sentiment
[21:30] <russss> not sure about the execution
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[21:30] <hibby> story of scotland, really.
[21:30] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/64iqik
[21:30] <NigeyS> dont see that very often
[21:31] <fsphil> lol
[21:32] <hibby> http://twitpic.com/63yzsp
[21:32] <hibby> snigger
[21:33] <NigeyS> lol
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[21:37] <NigeyS> http://www.global-rent-a-scope.com/storage/post-images/Juno-Ani-Scott-G16.gif
[21:37] <NigeyS> neat img
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> How much does that sort of image cost to get?
[21:39] <NigeyS> err. 5 min exp on gras 16 .. prolly about £15
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> That's not hideous.
[21:40] <NigeyS> fairly reasonable
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[21:41] <fsphil> next stop, jupiter
[21:42] <fsphil> looking forward to seeing what results that comes up with
[21:43] <NigeyS> should be interesting
[21:48] Action: SpeedEvil ponders.
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Aww.
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> It's way too far south to see the UK.
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Was idly wondering about seeing if it could see bright LEDs.
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[22:16] <Lunar_Lander4811> NigeyS : still here?
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[22:35] <Upu> night all
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander4811> night Upu
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[22:43] <Lunar_Lander4811> wb Dan-K2VOL
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[23:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Cory Cash "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Payload XML"
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[23:30] <rjharrison> Obviously need to filter some of this stuff on and off but it's all here http://www.robertharrison.org/habhub/cusf-standalone-predictor/predict/
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[00:00] --- Fri Aug 12 2011