highaltitude.log.20110810

[00:00] <hibby> indeed
[00:00] <jcoxon> K6HX, this is a good way - i reckon we have at least 15 new hams because of ballooning
[00:00] <hibby> the reason I got involved was because I saw APRS on hak5 and was fascinated
[00:00] <jcoxon> in the UK that is
[00:00] <K6HX> I bet! It's awesome.
[00:01] <jcoxon> e.g. we've built our own sort of APRS system - that is more flexible for different freqs, protocols
[00:01] <K6HX> I've got an open tracker, a good flight gps, and a canon camerai could sacrifice. I kind of want to float an HD vid cam though too.
[00:01] <jcoxon> as we can't tx on standard APRS freqs in the UK on the air
[00:02] <hibby> cant't really transmit on many frequencies
[00:02] <jcoxon> hibby, oh our system is more fun!
[00:02] <K6HX> so, what is your system like?
[00:02] <K6HX> or should I read your wiki? :-)
[00:02] <jcoxon> so we've adapted fldigi to be able to detect strings
[00:02] <jcoxon> telem strings
[00:02] <jcoxon> which it uploads to the net
[00:03] <jcoxon> and then these are plotted onto a map
[00:03] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[00:03] <K6HX> neet.
[00:03] <K6HX> I like fldigi.
[00:03] <jcoxon> e.g. there is a launch in iceland in about 3hrs time
[00:03] <jcoxon> we've added a lot of extra stuff to our fldigi, string detection, ability to send jpegs as rtty, gps decode to realtime update your position
[00:04] <jcoxon> dl-fldigi its called
[00:04] Action: K6HX reads.
[00:04] <jcoxon> but yeah the ukhas wiki is a good start
[00:04] <hibby> jcoxon: it really is
[00:05] <hibby> I recon it's time to mix it up though, find a new mode to abuse :)
[00:05] <jcoxon> hibby, but thats the joy of the current system
[00:05] <jcoxon> as long as fldigi can decode it we can use it
[00:06] <hibby> that's true.
[00:06] <jcoxon> just need to implement it on the tx'er
[00:06] <hibby> im keen for some sort of low speed bpskk
[00:07] <jcoxon> K6HX, the nice thing about having an indepdent system is we can add balloon related features
[00:07] <jcoxon> such as real time predicition
[00:07] <hibby> given the error rate on psk is typically lower than a/fsk
[00:07] <jcoxon> a lot harder to implement though with the simple transmitters we are accustomed to using
[00:08] <hibby> i know. That'll be the fun part.
[00:09] <hibby> anyway
[00:09] <hibby> amma go out and get me some american foods for dinner
[00:09] <hibby> see what culinary delights ohio holds for me tonight
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[00:15] <K6HX> allright, time for my commute.
[00:15] <hibby> you're in pacific time?
[00:15] <K6HX> yep.
[00:15] <hibby> cool
[00:16] <hibby> speak later!
[00:16] <K6HX> will do... ciao.
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[00:23] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone know what the UTC of the iceland flight will be?
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> 3
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> 1.5h
[00:29] <Dan-K2VOL> 0300 utc for 1.5hours?
[00:29] <dadi> Well we are aiming for 3 AM
[00:30] <dadi> Looks like it might be more around 4
[00:31] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
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[00:59] <hibby> yawn
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[02:54] <hibby> aye
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[03:10] <SamSilver_> morning cuddykid
[03:11] <SamSilver_> afk
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[04:30] <Dan-K2VOL> I see a balloon driven down the road, how's that going
[04:33] <hibby> indeed
[04:33] <hibby> that's what I was thinking
[04:36] <Dan-K2VOL> sunrise is coming momentarily there in iceland it appears - http://www.die.net/earth/
[04:36] <hibby> what a lovely website title
[04:36] <hibby> y'all launcherizing tomorrow?
[04:36] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[04:37] <Dan-K2VOL> white star?
[04:37] <hibby> mmhmm
[04:37] <Dan-K2VOL> we're going to go up and help spaceport indiana launch a normal up-and-down flight on saturday
[04:37] <hibby> i read on twitter somewhere that somethign was happening
[04:37] <hibby> oh, cool
[04:37] <hibby> "normal"
[04:38] <hibby> what kind of size/alt?
[04:39] <Dan-K2VOL> probably a 600g with likely 2.5kg aboard
[04:39] <Dan-K2VOL> maybe 3kg, in a few packages
[04:39] <hibby> nice
[04:39] <Dan-K2VOL> Bill Brown is sending all the payloads up, his usual SpaceNear.us tracker, plus APRS one
[04:40] <hibby> cool
[04:44] <hibby> Ah, TV's Craig Ferguson.
[04:48] <Dan-K2VOL> lol getting late
[04:50] <hibby> late late, apparently.
[04:50] <hibby> bed time. But if I go to bed, I'll watch MLP:FIM and talk on the huddle.
[04:53] <Dan-K2VOL> night!
[04:53] <Dan-K2VOL> oh on google plus?
[04:54] <Dan-K2VOL> duh sorry, it's damn past my bedtime
[04:57] <hibby> lol
[05:09] <Dan-K2VOL> faster balloon!
[05:11] <hibby> confusing balloon
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[06:32] <Elwell> hibby: 'slacker' :-)
[06:37] <griffonbot> Received email: Cory Cash "Re: [UKHAS] Payload XML"
[06:44] <fsphil> what an odd flight
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[08:04] <Upu> what frequency is it on ?
[08:04] <Upu> not that I'm going to be able to get it from here
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[08:07] <fsphil> not sure, don't think they mentioned
[08:08] <fsphil> guessing it's landed-- looks like they had a faulty altitude reading
[08:08] <fsphil> oh wait it's just launched!
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[08:09] <fsphil> that must have been the drive down to the launch site
[08:10] <daveake> :)
[08:11] <fsphil> I guess they didn't have enough caffeine to launch at 4am :)
[08:11] <Randomskk> anyone on who can shove a new payload xml up?
[08:11] <Upu> yeah
[08:11] <Upu> I can do it
[08:11] <fsphil> 8.6m/s ascent
[08:11] <edmoore> how was the flight?
[08:11] <fsphil> just started edmoore
[08:11] <edmoore> oh still going
[08:11] <Randomskk> Upu: see recent UKHAS email :P http://pastebin.com/5jft5sLV
[08:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] Payload XML"
[08:15] <daveake> Impressive ascent rate .....
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[08:23] <Upu> Randomskk I uploaded the XML and set the group permission
[08:23] <Upu> but when I select it in DL-FLDigi it just closes
[08:23] <Upu> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/n7fv.xml
[08:23] <Upu> is there anything else I need to do other than upload the XML ?
[08:25] <Randomskk> shouldn't be
[08:25] <fsphil> crashes?
[08:27] <Upu> yeah
[08:27] <Upu> refresh payload
[08:27] <Upu> select n7fv
[08:28] <Upu> and it closes down
[08:28] <fsphil> yea, crashed me too
[08:28] <Upu> when you hit auto configure
[08:28] <Upu> must be something in it non standard
[08:28] <fsphil> crashing in strlen
[08:29] <fsphil> naughty program not checking for null likely
[08:29] <Randomskk> hmm
[08:29] <Randomskk> I think cory must have randomly deleted some fields
[08:29] <edmoore> sunrise is 6am gmt in iceland isn't it?
[08:29] <edmoore> sorry, BST
[08:29] <Randomskk> it's missing mode
[08:29] <Randomskk> Upu: can you just add <mode>usb</mode> after frequency?
[08:30] <Randomskk> gotta run, bbl
[08:30] <fsphil> sentence_delimiter is NULL
[08:30] <fsphil> that the one that's missing?
[08:30] <Upu> sure
[08:30] <Upu> nope
[08:31] <Upu> 1 sec
[08:31] <Upu> he said he'd done it from the generator
[08:32] <Upu> has he removed fields from it ?
[08:32] <Upu> I'll go re do it
[08:33] <fsphil> aah it is the sentence delimiter - hard-wired it and no crash
[08:33] <fsphil> must put some checks in there
[08:34] <fsphil> likely should be <sentence_delimiter>$$</sentence_delimiter>
[08:35] <fsphil> oh it is there
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[08:36] <fsphil> sentence_deliminator
[08:36] <fsphil> it's spelled wrong
[08:36] <Upu> thats the generator
[08:37] <Upu> also generator misses off USB bit
[08:37] <fsphil> haha - a bug that revealed another bug
[08:38] <fsphil> I'll stick something in that makes sure the required fields are present, and if not reject the payload
[08:39] <Upu> that fixed it
[08:39] <Upu> ok mailing list time :)
[08:40] <Upu> Adam ?
[08:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Payload XML"
[08:41] <Upu> you're on the ukhas-tools mailing list fsphil ?
[08:42] <fsphil> Upu, yea
[08:43] <Upu> I'll mail
[08:43] <Upu> done
[08:48] <fsphil> haha, nice altitude glitch: Max. Altitude: 57969 m
[08:48] <fsphil> the flight path is weird
[08:48] <fsphil> actually the altitude has stopped upating
[08:48] <fsphil> updating*
[08:49] <edmoore> yeah it's all a bit weird
[08:49] <edmoore> like it's got stuck on a hovering herlcopter
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[08:54] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/09/lohan_launch_concepts/
[08:54] <Laurenceb_> the hell
[08:54] <Laurenceb_> why are they all so daft
[08:56] <GW8RAK> But some nice graphics
[08:57] <Laurenceb_> ffs just use a long line with a slightly tilted rail
[08:57] <Laurenceb_> or read the martlet pdf
[08:57] <GW8RAK> Don't be so simplistic, that might work!
[08:58] <GW8RAK> I think the one suggested the other day of just going though the balloon is the easiest.
[09:01] <edmoore> agreed
[09:01] <Laurenceb_> http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/08/08/lohan_doughnut_03.jpg
[09:01] <Laurenceb_> looooool
[09:01] <Laurenceb_> what have they been smoking
[09:01] <edmoore> that's been plan A for years now. or just launching at 1 degree off vertical from a launch rig about 50m below
[09:02] <edmoore> actually our plan a was to build the launch tower into the neck of a zero pressure
[09:02] <edmoore> plan A *
[09:02] <edmoore> so it would fly up thropugh the helium inside initially and burst out of the top
[09:02] <edmoore> but we figured we could get away with latex in the end
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[09:19] <WillDuckworth> Hey guys, I'm practically ready for my flight. The NOTAMs myself and cuddykid had have now expired. I'd like to launch Monday from EARS - is this ok? who do I need to contact for this?
[09:19] <Randomskk> EARS NOTAM is weekends only
[09:19] <Randomskk> but RocketBoy is the person you want to contact
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[09:20] <RocketBoy> yeah - drop me an email
[09:21] <WillDuckworth> cheers :)
[09:23] <fsphil> a monday launch .. must remember to leave the radio on
[09:23] <edmoore> yeah antioscial :p
[09:23] <number10> lol
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[09:33] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:37] <simhed> morning jcoxon
[09:37] <WillDuckworth> Morning jcoxon - how're the night shifts holding out?
[09:37] <jcoxon> start tonight
[09:38] <jcoxon> so we'll find out tomorrow!
[09:38] <WillDuckworth> enjoy ;) nearly ready on the balloon launch here... putting a few bits together here: http://wdhab.blogspot.com/
[09:38] <WillDuckworth> still very much work in progress
[09:40] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:40] <jcoxon> remember to test test test
[09:40] <griffonbot> @apexhab: PCBs for Alpha have arrived. Photos to come shortly. #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/101226425377488897]
[09:40] <WillDuckworth> will do, went for a little drive around in Wales yesterday with the payload...
[09:41] <WillDuckworth> but the transmitter blocked the central locking on the car - had to open it the old fashioned way ;)
[09:41] <fsphil> haha
[09:42] <fsphil> my neighbour thought their keys where broke, changed the batteries and everything
[09:43] <daveake> lol
[09:43] <edmoore> may i 2nd test test test
[09:43] <fsphil> I don't leave the payload on testing just as much now
[09:43] <edmoore> if you don't feel happy throwing it down the stairs then have it pick up a lock without breaking a sweat, you might consider not flying it!
[09:43] <WillDuckworth> i've done test test - need another test to finish off ;)
[09:44] <WillDuckworth> fair point edmoore
[09:44] <edmoore> or throwing it out of a 2nd storey window like jcoxon
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[09:55] <jcoxon> bbl
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[10:12] <fsphil> I used that criteria when building my antenna edmoore, it could happily survive being thrown down the stairs or dropped from the roof of a building
[10:12] <fsphil> the rest of the payload not so much :)
[10:12] <edmoore> lol
[10:13] <edmoore> well jcoxon's 2nd floor test was an accident
[10:13] <cuddykid> great to hear WillDuckworth! - like the blog too :) - however, any day now I *should* have NOTAM coverage.. hopefully!
[10:13] <edmoore> he was in the churchill hab mission control
[10:13] <edmoore> (a study room with decent window coverage to point yagis out of)
[10:13] <edmoore> and had the payload proped against an open window to try and let it see enough sky to get a gps lock
[10:14] <edmoore> then we got on with some other stuff
[10:14] <edmoore> 'er.... where's the payload gone>'
[10:14] <edmoore> ?*
[10:16] <danielsaul> http://gallery.apexhab.org/var/albums/Apex-Alpha/Diagrams-and-Posters/alpha-diagram.jpg?m=1311877862
[10:16] <danielsaul> Wrong channel, sorry
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[10:19] <WillDuckworth> good news cuddykid - let me know :)
[10:19] <cuddykid> anyone have the link to the site where you can check notams?
[10:19] <cuddykid> on the map
[10:20] <cuddykid> got it, np :)
[10:20] <cuddykid> http://notaminfo.com/ukmap
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[10:27] <griffonbot> @danielsaul: RT @apexhab: PCBs for Alpha have arrived. Photos to come shortly. #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/danielsaul/status/101238345467838464]
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[11:30] <cuddykid> got some new easy radios!
[11:31] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Some photos of Alpha's PCB http://j.mp/mUi1ID #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/101254294040358912]
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[11:34] <earthshine> Afternoon
[11:34] <earthshine> Have you guys seen these products? http://www.universalair.co.uk/
[11:34] <earthshine> The Forebrain MCU and the Seraphim board look like they will be perfect for HAB
[11:43] <Darkside> looks good
[11:44] <Darkside> ublox chipset too
[11:44] <Darkside> just needs a small transmitter board to go with it, and a power supply
[11:44] <earthshine> Where does it say that? I was trying to find more info. on the GPS.
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Looks interesting
[11:46] <earthshine> Looks like an ideal, almost ready made product for HAB to me
[11:46] <earthshine> Like you say, just add the transmitter and power
[11:46] <Darkside> earthshine: on the board
[11:46] <Darkside> you can see the ublox module
[11:47] <earthshine> oh yeah on the larger photos
[11:47] <Darkside> certainly interesting
[11:47] <Darkside> depending on the price, i might get one
[11:47] <Darkside> the ARM might be powerful enough to do some RTTY uplink stuff
[11:47] <earthshine> £36 inc vat for the MCU board
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Might be?
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> How couldn't it?
[11:48] <earthshine> Its a 32 bit Arm-Cortex M3
[11:48] <earthshine> plenty powerful enough
[11:48] <Darkside> 8 analogue channels, capable of 10-bit resolution and up to 400kHz sample rate (at 10-bit resolution)
[11:48] <Darkside> thats more than enough for demodulating some RTTY
[11:49] <Darkside> the problem will be tuning it, and coping with drift
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> It's even enough to do some FFT stuff to help with that
[11:49] <Darkside> well thats the idea
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[11:50] <Darkside> i might see if i can get a forebrain while i'm here
[11:50] <Darkside> since it'll ship wuickly
[11:50] <Darkside> then i'll get a gps board shipped to me
[11:50] <Darkside> or make my own
[11:51] <Laurenceb_> not if you have a full frontal lobotomy
[11:51] <Darkside> lol
[11:51] <Darkside> actually yes, i'll make my own daughterboard for it
[11:51] <Darkside> with a spot for a TX1H
[11:51] <Darkside> actually i might put a DAC on the board, so we can do some real fun stuff with the TX1H/NTX2
[11:53] <Darkside> ok im gonna buy one now
[11:54] <Darkside> at the very least it'll be a cool Cortex-M3 dev board
[11:54] <Laurenceb_> stm32 ftw
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[11:59] <Darkside> its not a stm32
[12:00] <Darkside> nxp
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[12:07] <Darkside> ordered
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[12:13] <number10> when are you back down under Darkside?
[12:14] <Darkside> i leave the UK on august 28
[12:14] <Darkside> back in a bit, got some soldering to do
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[12:25] <cuddykid> argh, having so many problems with these easyradios
[12:36] <fsphil> easysolution: bin
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[12:59] <WillDuckworth> cuddykid - i have a spare 434.075 radiometrix jobby if you want?
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[13:00] <Zuph_> Good
[13:01] <Zuph_> aiee, irssi going insane
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[13:01] Nick change: Zuph_ -> Zuph
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[13:21] <edmoore> greetings Dan-K2VOL
[13:21] <edmoore> how are tricks?
[13:24] <fsphil> anyone ever get the "peg legs" for a yaesu ft817?
[13:25] <russss> mine came with them on
[13:26] <russss> (second hand)
[13:26] <russss> they're not bad, they still don't put it at a great angle for reading the display though
[13:27] <fsphil> ah
[13:27] <fsphil> any chance of them scratching the case when they're moved?
[13:27] <russss> I don't think so, they're pretty well designed.
[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> morning edmoore
[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> you're right-side round today I see
[13:29] <edmoore> Dan-K2VOL: i'm also wrong side round
[13:29] <edmoore> but that is an irssi screen sessuin on the habhub server
[13:29] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[13:29] <edmoore> and i have not the private key to shell into it on my work computer
[13:29] <edmoore> don't want work getting a hold of my private keys, afterall
[13:30] <Randomskk> that's where you want a second key on a USB stick :P
[13:30] <Randomskk> can revoke if lost, otherwise handy
[13:33] <edmoore> true dat
[13:33] <edmoore> but also getting putty to use a priv key required downloading some other putty geygen thingamie
[13:33] <Randomskk> true
[13:33] <edmoore> and i just don't care about it enough to bother
[13:33] <Randomskk> haha yea mostly that
[13:34] <Randomskk> you can convert the openssh key to a putty key and store the putty key on a usb stick, but really, meh
[13:34] <cuddykid> fsphil: lol
[13:34] <edmoore> how are things Randomskk ?
[13:35] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: I'm alright for time being, thanks anyway :)
[13:35] <Randomskk> pretty good. work continues to go well and be full of interesting stuff. played with chef a bit last night.
[13:35] <Randomskk> planning a trekking trip for after I finish work, too, which'l be fun. you?
[13:39] <edmoore> where trekking?
[13:39] <edmoore> i'm at work too
[13:40] <Randomskk> yorkshire it looks like
[13:40] <edmoore> cool
[13:40] <edmoore> i want to do the coast to coast up there at some point
[13:40] <Randomskk> just before going back up to cambridge. should be fun, I haven't been trekking properly for a while
[13:41] <edmoore> i've done the north yourk moors a few times
[13:41] <edmoore> well, 2
[13:41] <edmoore> but morcombe to scarborough could be fun
[13:42] <edmoore> so pypy is cool
[13:42] <edmoore> very fast
[13:42] <Randomskk> yea! seems weird that a self hosted python interpreter would be faster than C
[13:42] <Randomskk> cool project
[13:42] <edmoore> no numpy supprt yet
[13:43] <edmoore> no bad thing tho as numpy can be awkwardly unpythonic
[13:43] <edmoore> so we could re-write the predictor in numpy
[13:43] <Randomskk> we totally could
[13:43] <edmoore> sorry not numpy
[13:43] <edmoore> conventional python
[13:43] <edmoore> and pypy
[13:43] <Dan-K2VOL> you guys talking about working on the habhub things?
[13:43] <edmoore> yup
[13:44] <Dan-K2VOL> cool, what part are you guys tinkering with
[13:44] <edmoore> predictor crashing for me again
[13:44] <Dan-K2VOL> oh
[13:44] <Dan-K2VOL> I suggested to wolfram alpha that they make a series of balloon calculators
[13:44] <edmoore> hrm, well Randomskk and DanielRichman know a lot ore about this than I, but the tracker backend is being radically reengineered
[13:45] <Dan-K2VOL> on wolframalpha.com
[13:45] <edmoore> and making it an easily deployable distributed database that can be run on web servers and eeepc's in a chase car
[13:45] <Dan-K2VOL> that's cool, things that had been planned for a while now?
[13:45] <Dan-K2VOL> oh interesting!
[13:45] <edmoore> i'ts nearly done!
[13:46] <edmoore> Randomskk should really chip in here to explain it better than me but here goes anyway
[13:46] <edmoore> it's based on couchdb which is a distributable noSQL database
[13:46] <Randomskk> nearly done and possibly a lot of it about to be redone :P
[13:46] <Dan-K2VOL> really, that's awesome, I'm going to fly one of Bill Brown's transmitters on saturday as a backup payload if you want to test anything on a non-critical flight
[13:46] <edmoore> designed with webbapps in mind that run locally to redeuce latency
[13:46] <Dan-K2VOL> just helping spaceport indiana do a latex flight for a festival
[13:46] <Dan-K2VOL> that's great
[13:47] <edmoore> but the paradigm works really nicely for chase cars too - you put each telem string into the db, when you loose 3g on the road your local dl-fldigi keeps updating your own database
[13:47] <edmoore> and it syncs itself to the central one when you get internet back
[13:47] <Dan-K2VOL> ahhh very nice indeed
[13:47] <edmoore> likewise if you loose the balloon your local database is populated by everyone elses telem
[13:47] <Dan-K2VOL> oh that is nice
[13:47] <edmoore> so you can run the mapping and landing preidiction locally and offline
[13:47] <Dan-K2VOL> all via HTML5 magic?
[13:48] <DanielRichman> and it's gonna be ludicrously easy to deploy in a local ubuntu VM
[13:48] <edmoore> the entire web-app is deployable basically to your local machine and self-syncing with all the other listners
[13:48] <edmoore> we're replacing subversion with git, basically
[13:48] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[13:49] <edmoore> and yeah, looking at depoying a vm to run it all
[13:49] <Zuph> HTML5 magic isn't really magical right now.
[13:49] <edmoore> so your just grab an iso and go
[13:49] <rjharrison> cool sounds great
[13:49] <Zuph> Lots of tech buzzwords in this one though.
[13:49] <edmoore> but as i say, kudos for this goes to Randomskk and DanielRichman
[13:50] <Zuph> edmoore: You should submit the new thing to hackernews and reddit, it'll get eaten up :-p
[13:50] <Randomskk> Zuph: it's also NoSQL
[13:50] <Dan-K2VOL> ah so it's an actual serverside web app running on a local web server, not a local database stored through the web browser
[13:50] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: it's a local CouchDB instance
[13:50] <Randomskk> which serves HTML content as well as being the database
[13:50] <edmoore> new paradigm time :)
[13:51] <edmoore> so really spacenear.us/tracker will just be an arbitrary installation of what everyone else is running too
[13:51] <edmoore> it just happens to be the one we set up as a website, but there's no fundamental reason that anyone else can't set up their own
[13:51] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds like a rough thing to keep cross-platformable, I see why you might just resort to a whole VM
[13:52] <Zuph> How's couchdb work with serving HTML? (I only have a passing familiarity with couchdb.)
[13:52] <edmoore> indeed - the source is all there if you want to do a deployment yourself. but the vm Just Works (tm)
[13:52] <Randomskk> Dan-K2VOL: it should be really easy to cross-platform and deploy wherever, but the VM is easier still as there's no installation or anything
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[13:52] <Randomskk> Zuph: couchdb can serve HTML, basically
[13:53] <Randomskk> as a database you access it over HTTP
[13:53] <edmoore> actually there will need to be an official central node for everyone to sync from
[13:53] <Randomskk> as well as returning data it can return html
[13:53] <Randomskk> edmoore: only official in the same way that a github repo is canonical
[13:53] <edmoore> that was exactly the model i had in mind
[13:54] <Randomskk> even means you could have multiple chase cars with packet radio internet connectivity (or wifi ad-hoc) and sync between them with still no main internet uplink :P
[13:54] <edmoore> :)
[13:54] <edmoore> aprs is actually bery sensible
[13:54] <edmoore> we should do an http over aprs protocol
[13:55] <edmoore> as it really is a good way with existing infrastructure to get telem back from chase cars in east anglia which has poor mobile cpoverage
[13:55] <rjharrison> Looks like edmoore is on form today#
[13:55] <rjharrison> I'm sure this is what you talked about about a year ago.
[13:56] <edmoore> yes - but it's like built now :)
[13:56] <fsphil> Randomskk, is there somewhere that documents how you're storing the received strings in couchdb?
[13:56] <Randomskk> fsphil: yea
[13:57] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/docs/database/example.html
[13:57] <fsphil> ta
[13:57] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/docs/database/example.html
[13:57] <Randomskk> uh
[13:57] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/docs/database/schema.html
[13:57] <Randomskk> latter is better explained, former is just examples
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[13:57] <Randomskk> the current live database is at http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat too if you want to try making couch requests (no write access though)
[13:57] <fsphil> will have a play
[13:59] <rjharrison> wow too much info to take in here at work but looks very sexy
[13:59] <rjharrison> in a geeky kind of way
[14:00] <WillDuckworth> agree - looks good
[14:00] <DanielRichman> http://i.imgur.com/lE0or.jpg
[14:01] <rjharrison> wow i'm looking forward to this being ready
[14:02] <DanielRichman> the original diagram was drawn with gnome dia but the design has changed since and pen/paper is quicker
[14:02] <Randomskk> I'm gonna spend a little more time hacking on chef tonight and then try and get a chunk of actual habitat done for the new design
[14:02] <Dan-K2VOL> you guys have been doing lots of great work!
[14:03] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: did someone say habitat development sprint?
[14:03] <Randomskk> yes :D
[14:03] <edmoore> oh that was me
[14:03] <edmoore> sorry
[14:03] <Randomskk> https://github.com/ukhas/habitat/compare/master...develop
[14:03] <Randomskk> over 18kloc apparently
[14:03] <Randomskk> nearer 19kloc of additions
[14:03] <DanielRichman> This comparison is big! <-- you broke github
[14:03] <fsphil> can couchdb be embedded into dl-fldigi, or better to have it as a separate dependency. windows users don't like dependencies :)
[14:04] <Randomskk> I don't think it would be readily embeddable
[14:04] <Randomskk> it's written in erlang, boo! :P
[14:04] <Randomskk> but it's only required for chase cars
[14:04] <Randomskk> and I think the route we push is VMs
[14:04] <fsphil> haha
[14:04] <Randomskk> i.e. you install virtualbox on your windows/linux/mac laptop for chase car
[14:04] <edmoore> fsphil: dlfldigi would need to use a curl lib or somesuch to talk to couch
[14:04] <Randomskk> download our VM image
[14:04] <Randomskk> adn run that
[14:04] <fsphil> so, normally have dl-fldigi connect directly to the main server
[14:04] <edmoore> couch only speaks http
[14:04] <DanielRichman> yeah the performance hit isn't very large providing your page file is big and you have the hard drive space; the VM is the way to go
[14:04] <Randomskk> fsphil: for home use, yea
[14:04] <Dan-K2VOL> oh ok, so the normal stationary listeners will still just run dl-fldigi?
[14:05] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
[14:05] <Randomskk> yea
[14:05] <Randomskk> just chase cars need their own local database
[14:05] <fsphil> that makes sense
[14:05] <Randomskk> which also serves files etc
[14:05] <edmoore> chase cars want very live and very good data
[14:05] <Randomskk> and they can do that from a VM by default, as it's really easy to support and set up
[14:05] <edmoore> especially on landing preds
[14:05] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[14:05] <edmoore> the guys with a mug of tea will have to wait
[14:06] <edmoore> maybe 20s
[14:06] <rjharrison> I really like the idea of having local gmap tracking id possible
[14:06] <DanielRichman> yeah we could probably ship a script that bulk downloads map data and wind data for an area from the noaa or gmaps or whatever for local use when the connection drops out
[14:06] <edmoore> yes we need to have a toggle for gmaps or a local scrape of it
[14:07] <DanielRichman> if you have all the wind data downloaded predictions take <1s
[14:07] <rjharrison> Yep sort of pre load the pread path +- would be awsume
[14:07] <edmoore> there's a piece of software that does the scraping and packing for you
[14:07] <Randomskk> yea I think we'll have a 'chase car' distro that includes scripts for wind data, gmaps images (or OSM), etc
[14:07] <edmoore> hrm what's it called...
[14:07] <edmoore> we used it on the airship ground control unit for our map overlay
[14:07] <Elwell> edmoore: APRS with a GET/POST followed by data and a checksum?
[14:07] <edmoore> Elwell: yes that would do it
[14:08] <edmoore> of a server daemon just looking at aprs strings on the net for balloon ones
[14:08] <edmoore> or a *
[14:08] <fsphil> my aprs node might actually get some use after all :)
[14:08] <Randomskk> I think it would just be a program on habhub that watches the APRS network and grabs balloon strings then puts them in couchdb
[14:08] <Randomskk> and another thing somewhere that parses them into useful data
[14:08] <Randomskk> or whatever
[14:08] <Elwell> *cough* MQTT
[14:09] <Elwell> seeing as I'm trying to investigate it anyway
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[14:12] <Zuph> Wow, looks like something like CouchApp could be a simple solution to White Star's scaling concerns.
[14:12] <Randomskk> you have scaling concerns?
[14:12] <edmoore> use habitat!
[14:12] <DanielRichman> scaling concerns? buy more hardware
[14:12] <edmoore> Elwell: mqtt looks interesting
[14:12] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: you mean, spin up more EC2 nodes
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[14:13] <DanielRichman> yeah, that's it
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[14:14] <Zuph> Well, we've got a Big Giant Mess (tm) of schemas and software and APIs going into the front end for public tracking.
[14:14] <Zuph> So it's been a pain to wedge it all into an architecture that could easily replicate across dynamically spawned AWS instances.
[14:15] <Randomskk> that is basically where couch is <3
[14:15] <Randomskk> well, check out couchbase too, which is a membase+couchdb quasi-commercial solution
[14:15] <Zuph> So it seems!
[14:16] Action: Laurenceb_ hasnt a clue what the topic of discussion is
[14:16] <Laurenceb_> dynamic spawning?
[14:17] <Laurenceb_> thats to do with frogs right?
[14:18] <hibby> sommetimes, one must take the frog to the woods on these things.
[14:18] <Elwell> Laurenceb_: I think its a protocol to transfer money from budget codes to external parties in a large and rapid manner
[14:18] <Zuph> hibby: toad
[14:19] <Elwell> often goes via 'integration consultants' as far as I can tell
[14:20] <hibby> Zuph: surely it can be flexible given the variable nature of amphibious discussion?
[14:21] <Laurenceb_> oh its something you write on your cv
[14:22] <Laurenceb_> integration of dynamic spawning into client driven deliverables to enhance user cost base optimization going forward
[14:23] <number10> a little off topic - the most expensive balloons in the world? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14462176
[14:25] <fsphil> they must have used BOC gas
[14:28] <edmoore> Randomskk: OK, my plan of work for the ukhas ecosystem. 1) Core predictor switched to python + suggest switching to pypy. 2) grib caching, at least for the uk
[14:28] <Randomskk> not really using gribs any more
[14:28] <Randomskk> we need to think about that hard really
[14:28] <Randomskk> as if we do the predictor in python
[14:28] <Randomskk> we'll probably use pyopendap to get the data
[14:28] <edmoore> this would lead to being able to re-write /hourly-predictions
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[14:29] <Randomskk> but the opendap servers the noaa run don't set caching headers (or rather they all say dont-cache)
[14:29] <edmoore> sure, gribs is a placeholder word then
[14:29] <fsphil> I like that you're tracking where a used received the telemetry
[14:29] <Randomskk> fsphil: it's so we can award points based on distance
[14:29] <Randomskk> and achievements
[14:29] <edmoore> but some sort of caching would be very useful
[14:29] <Randomskk> edmoore: right now the predictor caches by
[14:29] <Randomskk> by horribly monkey patching httplib to force it to cache even though the http header said don't
[14:29] <Randomskk> I think we need to move that cache to an application level rather than caching the http
[14:30] <edmoore> yes agreed
[14:31] <edmoore> historical data is useful too
[14:31] <edmoore> if only for say 7 days
[14:31] <Randomskk> yea
[14:31] <edmoore> it saved us on nova 7
[14:31] <Randomskk> also I want a sexy stats dashboard
[14:31] <Randomskk> I want to see things like average landing site vs predicted spot, how many predictions, how many launches, all sorts of data.
[14:32] <edmoore> we lost telem on landing, couldn't find it, so abandoned the chase, went back and ran montecarlos with the histrical grib from the last known position, and went and found it the next morning
[14:32] <rjharrison> I'm going to collect my bags and coat :-)
[14:32] <rjharrison> It's getting too complicated to keep up
[14:32] <Randomskk> is the montecarlo that much better?
[14:32] <edmoore> gives you a variance
[14:33] <edmoore> which helps with the searching strategy
[14:33] <Randomskk> yea I guess
[14:33] <Randomskk> would be really good to get that set up for main predictions
[14:33] <edmoore> the max likelihood is still usually the canonical prediction
[14:33] <Randomskk> proably not for chase cars but for the website it'd be suepr cool
[14:33] <Randomskk> it needs a GPU basically?
[14:33] <Randomskk> you can actually rent GPU time on amazon pretty cheaply
[14:33] <edmoore> not really i don't think, though of course that would be fun
[14:34] <edmoore> well, the montecarlos might help
[14:34] <edmoore> but i thyink you can probably do an approximation to find the variance
[14:34] <edmoore> you definitely want circles for parachute glide angles
[14:34] <edmoore> some parachutes can glide at like 30 degrees through the air
[14:35] <edmoore> relative to the air, i should say, to be specific
[14:35] <edmoore> so that can put a circle of possibility around the landing trajectory which assumes no glide
[14:36] <edmoore> also some parachutes glide stably at low alt but corkscrew at high alt. this parachute physics is probably beyond the scope of the predictor. but certainly say, 5,10,20 degree glide circles would be useful
[14:36] <edmoore> maybe with a check box to turn on/off just so as not to overwelm newbs
[14:37] <edmoore> we did it on our sshadt landing predictor - it really helped
[14:38] <Randomskk> having the predictor done nicely in python would make playing with these ideas a lot more fun
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[14:38] <edmoore> Randomskk: re: gpu, i think it's not so useful because the problem is very small (say 500 sims) and the type of calculations are not that ideal
[14:38] <edmoore> so - memory access is the big overhead for gpu
[14:38] <edmoore> so you want calcs that maximise the operations per mem access ratio
[14:39] <edmoore> so forex, i think matrix multiplication is n^3 operations over n^2 memory accesses
[14:39] <edmoore> which is really nice
[14:39] <edmoore> but our basic linear integrators probably are not
[14:40] <edmoore> BUT i have only ahd brief flirtings with it
[14:40] <edmoore> it would absolutely cane ass on the bayesian changepoint demodulation thing
[14:41] <edmoore> Randomskk: ah yes, this would all be nicer with an end-to-end python predictor, i agree
[14:41] <edmoore> and yes*
[14:43] <edmoore> my damned monologue coefficient is going up again
[14:43] <edmoore> enthusiam
[14:43] <edmoore> blah at work, must do work
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL> haha too much coffee today?
[14:43] <edmoore> Dan-K2VOL: like 12 cups and counting
[14:43] <edmoore> i'm write next to the coffee machine
[14:44] <fsphil> ooch
[14:44] <Dan-K2VOL> lol your colleagues probably love dropping by for coffee, do you let them leave?
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> I do the same, so I feel ok teasing :-P
[14:45] <edmoore> we just end up at the whiteboard idea bashing
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[14:45] <fsphil> wish: record the receivers dial frequency with each telemetry string, to have a live frequency displayed on the site somewhere
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> FSPHIL YES
[14:45] <edmoore> fsphil: good idea
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> a thousand upvotes on that
[14:45] <jcoxon> yeah thats not difficult in fldigi
[14:45] <fsphil> "What's the dial freq.?" is an FAQ :)
[14:45] <edmoore> you can do the appropriate fldigi patch :)
[14:46] <fsphil> it wouldn't work with the current system I don't think, but when submitting to the couchdb it would be trivial
[14:46] <Randomskk> does require the receiver have their radio connected to dl-fldigi via rigcat or hamlib or something
[14:46] <fsphil> yep, can test for that though so we don't get lots of 0mhz
[14:46] <Randomskk> otherwise you'll get like 1khz which is not a helpful dial freq :P
[14:46] <Randomskk> yea
[14:47] <Randomskk> sounds good
[14:47] <Randomskk> goes into couch very very easily as you said
[14:47] <hibby> were low on coffee here... im struggling
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[14:57] <rjharrison> In my exp. rigcat / hamlib causes issues
[14:57] <rjharrison> Not very usefull for chase car either
[14:58] <fsphil> I use it for the home station, frequency tracking keeps it tuned properly as long as the AFC is working
[14:59] <Randomskk> yea I like it for having automatic tuning
[14:59] <fsphil> should track an entire flight without any user intervention
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[15:00] <Randomskk> can't wait to have an achievements thing too
[15:00] <rjharrison> That would be cool.
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[15:00] <Randomskk> need to maybe thing about authentication
[15:00] <Randomskk> think*
[15:00] <Randomskk> it's a tricky one really.
[15:01] <Randomskk> no one wants to mess with a username and password in dl-fldigi
[15:01] <Zuph> Habitat guys-- how are you accomplishing the neat cross-replication stuff/where on the github can I find the associated stuff.
[15:01] <Randomskk> Zuph: couchdb does it itself
[15:01] <Randomskk> automagic
[15:01] <Randomskk> github has all the habitat code: http://github.com/ukhas/habitat
[15:01] <Randomskk> but couchdb manages replication itself
[15:04] <Zuph> With spacenear as the master db?
[15:04] <Zuph> (hypothetically)
[15:05] <Randomskk> habhub
[15:05] <Randomskk> probably
[15:05] <Randomskk> spacenear.us would be a display thing or something
[15:05] <Randomskk> habhub.org would probably be the 'canonical' master db
[15:06] <edmoore> the one the chase cars would all sync from
[15:06] <Randomskk> in so far as chase car configurations would replicate to it by default
[15:06] <Randomskk> and dl-fldigi's default config would include posting to it
[15:06] <edmoore> i am superfluous here
[15:06] <edmoore> i shall retire
[15:06] <DanielRichman> If you setup a couchdb with one way replication from habhub, and don't install the python daemons, you instantly have a live updating mirror of habhub
[15:06] <Randomskk> yea.
[15:06] <DanielRichman> the two way replication is more complicated :S
[15:06] <DanielRichman> IDK what couch can do
[15:06] <Randomskk> well
[15:06] <Randomskk> it's not that much more complicated
[15:07] <DanielRichman> can you write a javascript function to validate incoming replicaty data and/or merge incoming data?
[15:07] <DanielRichman> and/or are chase cars going to have to authenticate to replicate, either by necessity or because they could destroy the entire databse (accidental or intentional) if it wasn't forced?
[15:08] <Randomskk> http://guide.couchdb.org/draft/conflicts.html
[15:08] <Randomskk> also http://guide.couchdb.org/draft/replication.html
[15:08] <Randomskk> replication doesn't give magic access to change things
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[15:09] <DanielRichman> okay, that's good
[15:10] <Randomskk> it actually does a thing a bit like bitcoin :P
[15:10] <Randomskk> but anyway the conflicts page there has the gory details
[15:11] <Zuph> So listeners post directly to habhub, and clients replicate from habhub. How do delayed posts get queued up? (crummy 3g network or something)
[15:12] <Randomskk> Zuph: listeners just running dl-fldigi post directly, there's no queuing provision, same as current basically
[15:12] <DanielRichman> listeners that want the ability to queue up stuff have to run a local couchdb server
[15:12] <Randomskk> most clients just load the web page
[15:13] <Randomskk> however, chase cars (or people likely to have rubbish internet) run couchdb locally
[15:13] <Randomskk> their dl-fldigi posts to their couchdb
[15:13] <DanielRichman> it's feasible to add very basic queuing/retry support to dl-fldigi, but that's not been considered yet
[15:13] <Randomskk> and their couchdb replicates to the habhub one when it can
[15:16] <edmoore> we'll definitely have to do a screen cast of this once it's operational
[15:16] <Zuph> Yeah
[15:17] <Randomskk> and diagrams and docs :P
[15:17] <Randomskk> plus easy install guide for getting a chase car vm running on windows I guess
[15:17] <edmoore> those too
[15:17] <DanielRichman> So replciation tries to make the target database exactly identical to the source database using the standard couchdb http api... what about, in unidirectional replication, documents that exist on the target but not the source?
[15:17] <edmoore> but a video speaks a thousand pictures
[15:17] <Randomskk> indeed
[15:17] <edmoore> Randomskk: yes - as a screencast too :)
[15:17] <edmoore> with a fastforward while couch is building
[15:17] <Randomskk> haha
[15:17] <Randomskk> "building"?
[15:18] <Randomskk> clearly distribute pre-built VM images
[15:18] <edmoore> oh true dat
[15:18] <edmoore> with a fastforward while the image is downloading
[15:18] <Randomskk> haha yea okay
[15:18] <edmoore> let's make it so you need xcode first
[15:18] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[15:19] <Randomskk> edmoore:
[15:19] <SAIDias> hmm....interesting...AMA Liability will not cover my BallooMerang project
[15:19] <Randomskk> !!!!!
[15:19] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[15:19] <Randomskk> https://github.com/kennethreitz/osx-gcc-installer
[15:19] <Randomskk> 270MB download for everything brew needs, no XCode
[15:19] <edmoore> yes i saw that
[15:19] <edmoore> nice
[15:19] <edmoore> also xcodes' new gcc isn't
[15:19] <edmoore> it's a clang gcc llvm mashup
[15:20] <DanielRichman> sounds painful
[15:20] <edmoore> W0OTM: not surprised
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[15:20] <edmoore> it's a UAV too
[15:20] <Randomskk> I think os x has used llvm for a while?
[15:20] <edmoore> tho... i know the law is cvhanging on that
[15:21] <edmoore> but UAVS are outside the AMA's remit, last i read
[15:21] <edmoore> they count as experimental aircraft, not hobby toys
[15:21] <edmoore> Randomskk: i think xcode 4 beta did on snow leopard
[15:21] <edmoore> which lots of people used
[15:21] <Randomskk> ah, okay
[15:21] <Randomskk> yea
[15:21] <Randomskk> apparently llvm is all the hotness
[15:22] <edmoore> Lickable LoVe Machine
[15:22] <edmoore> is what it stands for
[15:23] Action: fsphil makes a mental note to not touch edmoore's laptop :)
[15:24] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: so I haven't read it entirely but it seems to me we can create functions to manage conflicts
[15:24] <edmoore> i won't let you
[15:24] <edmoore> it's new and shiny
[15:24] <fsphil> lol
[15:25] <fsphil> I'll be bringing my old clunky thinkpad to london
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[15:25] <edmoore> Randomskk: if the telem string db ids are a hash of the contents, surely (in theroy ha) you won't get conflicts?
[15:25] <edmoore> fsphil: when are you in london?
[15:26] <Randomskk> edmoore: will get conflicts on things like the list of who received a given telem message
[15:26] <fsphil> 15th october
[15:26] <edmoore> oh for habcon
[15:26] <edmoore> cool
[15:26] <Randomskk> edmoore: and possibly on things where parsers have done different things to the data
[15:26] <edmoore> tru
[15:26] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: A remote database is identified by the same URL you use to talk to it. CouchDB replication works over HTTP using the same mechanisms that are available to you. This example shows that replication is a unidirectional process. Documents are copied from one database to another and not automatically vice versa. If you want bidirectional replication, you need to trigger two replications with source and target swapped
[15:26] <edmoore> any feedback on talks yet?
[15:28] <edmoore> if i'm giving one i want to write it sooner rather than later
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[15:29] <jcoxon> we are still looking for volunteers
[15:29] <fsphil> I'll not be doing any talks but I'm liable to bring the hadie board and demo the ssdv stuff
[15:30] <jcoxon> edmoore, there is definitely space for a talk from your fine self
[15:30] <Zuph> Randomskk: So is each received telemetry string stored as a separate document?
[15:31] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: the reason I ask is that I was wondering if it would try to delete remote documents if they don't exist on the local database in unidirectional replication
[15:31] <DanielRichman> and/or if bidirectional replication is therefore racy the first time
[15:31] <DanielRichman> but thinking about it, that'd be dumb, and I haven't seen couchdb doing dumb stuff yet
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[15:31] <Randomskk> Zuph: yes
[15:31] <edmoore> jcoxon: ok. what was the time length?
[15:32] <Zuph> I think I get it.
[15:32] <Randomskk> jcoxon: we/you/someone should setup a timetable. shared google doc?
[15:32] <edmoore> i'll do it on the ESA stuff. it's quite interesting, even if most of it is 'don't make all these mistakes we made...'
[15:32] <Randomskk> Zuph: and that document contains the raw binary data (in base64), the usefully parsed data (from the parser) and the list of who received it (with links to their latest info and telem)
[15:32] <Randomskk> at first it contains the raw binary data and the first receiver
[15:33] <Randomskk> some time later, the parser sees it and adds parsed data
[15:33] <Randomskk> some time later, more receivers get it and add themselves to the list
[15:33] <jcoxon> edmoore, max 30mins
[15:33] <edmoore> cool
[15:33] <Randomskk> it's easy to solve the respective optimistic concurrency issues as only new data is ever really added
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[15:33] <jcoxon> edmoore, can i put you in my timetable then?
[15:34] <edmoore> yes please
[15:34] <edmoore> i'll do it on our esa work
[15:34] <edmoore> that takes in lots - developing of badger 2, badger cub, uplinks, lots of 3kg balloons and pyrotechnics
[15:35] <edmoore> and transonic parachute deployment wooo
[15:35] <Zuph> Randomskk: Alright, now I might not get it again :-p So, in the flaky internet situation, say the disconnected receiver gets the string, and some connected receivers send it up to habhub. When the disconnected receiver reconnects, and replicates to habhub, how does that work?
[15:36] <Randomskk> so the state is: our disconnected receiver has a document containing the raw data and their name
[15:36] <Randomskk> while habhub has the document with raw data, probably parsed data, and other people's names
[15:36] <Randomskk> the desired end-state is habhub and the disconnected receive both having the same document, which contains the raw data, the parsed data and all the names
[15:37] <Zuph> yea
[15:37] <Randomskk> this part isn't exactly written but essentially this is where the disconnected receiver tries to replicate, its version of the document is stored as a conflict on habhub, but habhub continues to use its version as its version has more revisions (it's been more updated)
[15:38] <Randomskk> a daemon on habhub notices the incoming conflict change and parses it, putting our disconnected receiver's name into the habhub document and thus marking the conflict as solved
[15:38] <Randomskk> next time the disconnected receive replicates (which is right away in the case of continuous replication) they get the newly updated version
[15:38] <Randomskk> which has the latest revision and conflict solved
[15:39] <Zuph> ah ha
[15:40] <Zuph> Now I get it :)
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[15:43] <Zuph> Damnit, I'm spending my work day thinking about HAB and not about work again.
[15:44] <Randomskk> haha :P
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[15:46] <Zuph> Cutting my python teeth on a script that will parse a telemetry discriptor, and generate storage, encoding/compression, and decoding/decompression libraries. Now thinkig about having it generate daemons for storage, replication, and display :-p
[15:48] <Randomskk> that sounds like an overly complicated script :P
[15:48] <Zuph> Yeah, unfortunately all of the white star telemtry stuff has become so interrelated that it will actuall reduce work in the long run :-p
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[15:49] <Zuph> Instead of having to change code in 6 places to accomodate a new or altered telemetry field, now it just has to be changed in one + altering the function that stores the data.
[15:51] <Randomskk> it definitely sounds like you have a very large and complicated code base :P
[15:52] <Zuph> Just complicated. The code running on the balloon is clocking in at about 2800 lines of C (counted by cloc).
[15:53] <Zuph> And the rest of the decoding/storage/display schema is all messed up, written in no less than 5 different programming languages by at least 4 different people, whose involvement is varied.
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> it's a code base consisting of many, many separate monolithic apps, due to the short timeframe we had to recruit people who could code fast in whatever language/platform made them happy enough to volunteer with :-)
[15:53] <Zuph> (Including Perl, C, C#, Python and SQL, if you count SQL)
[15:54] <edmoore> sounds like habitat might be of use then
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> when something went wrong with the telemetry downlink it was a nightmare to trace who should be called to fix it
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> an open source well refined thing for as much of it as possible would be nice
[15:54] <edmoore> i'm going to try and do the landing predictor python re-write is the most obvious python possible for that reason
[15:55] <Randomskk> theoretically with habitat you just write a ParserModule that will convert incoming data to a python object and it will do all the rest
[15:55] <edmoore> well at least before one tries and does clever things with it
[15:55] <Zuph> Habitat would be very useful for the web portion.
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[15:55] <Randomskk> we still need to make all the sexy html+js parts
[15:55] <Zuph> Unfortunately, the storage, encoding, receiving and decoding bits are still pretty hairy.
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> over orbcomm we're really data constrained, so we don't have the luxury of ascii text with delimeters
[15:56] <Zuph> Speaking of, Dan-K2VOL, and you look into getting us orbcomm XML access?
[15:56] <Zuph> *can
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> oh good idea
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> will do
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> though it actually may not gain much as far as functionality
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[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL> though it will remove one uncontrolled link in the chain - email
[15:57] <Zuph> I've already got most of the code written for storage and decoding. SWIG will give us nice python wrappers for the decoding code. A python parser can grab the orbcomm XML, smash it through decoding, and toss it into a database (or habitat, or whatever)
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[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[15:58] <Zuph> Then any telemetry change will just have to be updated in one place, and a script will generate new C files, libraries and daemons automagically.
[15:58] <Zuph> It'll make the whole thing a lot easier and cleaner from our side: less crap to sort through when things explode.
[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> that's really awesome to hear stuff is getting refined way ahead of the last minute!!
[15:58] <Zuph> Hey hey
[15:58] <Zuph> don't say that yet
[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[15:58] <Zuph> I've only just started thinking about it.
[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> well it's being thought of :-P
[16:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Ivan from Orbcomm called last week to tell me that UCSD is now also patiently waiting for our ORBCOMM code :-P
[16:02] <Zuph> hah!
[16:03] <Zuph> ruh roh!
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> might be nice to prepare to think about integrating the orbcomm decoding into something like habhub in the long term
[16:03] <Zuph> We should send Orbcomm some stickers, btw.
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yea
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> or at least some highly compressed data
[16:05] <Zuph> heh
[16:10] <NigeyS> jcoxon, testing a pico ?
[16:10] <jcoxon> yup
[16:10] <jcoxon> well its more like pico4
[16:10] <NigeyS> oo, when you thinking of launching ?
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[16:10] <jcoxon> maybe on sunday
[16:11] <jcoxon> from kent
[16:11] <NigeyS> ah right, you going to go with the 10g lift per balloon idea ?
[16:11] <jcoxon> i'm going to go for minimal ascent rate
[16:11] <jcoxon> so most likely 4x92
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> I think that's a good idea jcoxon
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> if you're doing foil
[16:12] <NigeyS> good idea, they the same foils as i used ?
[16:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> can you measure the lift precisely indoors for science?
[16:12] <jcoxon> yeah
[16:12] <jcoxon> thats the plan Dan-K2VOL
[16:12] <jcoxon> we are going to fill indoors
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, what's the resolution of your scale
[16:12] <jcoxon> at hte medway hackspace
[16:13] <NigeyS> from what i saw, for 10g .. you're probably looking at 1/4 full
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> nice! good to hear of more hackerspace activity
[16:13] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, well we'll use my electric scales
[16:13] <jcoxon> go down to 0.1g
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> can you record the tare weight of the balloons too?
[16:13] <jcoxon> then use a set mass and calculate lift by how much the mass goes down on the scale
[16:14] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[16:14] <SamSilver> bbn
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[16:14] <Dan-K2VOL> be back now?
[16:15] <jcoxon> payload without antenna and insulation is 61g
[16:15] <jcoxon> but to tell the truth the mass doesn't matter
[16:15] <jcoxon> its all about ascent rate
[16:16] <NigeyS> yup
[16:17] <edmoore> is this for floating?
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL> but you can't adjust that until after you've measured it :-)
[16:18] <jcoxon> edmoore, thats the aim
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> and you can't measure that until it's gone :-)
[16:18] <edmoore> ah ok
[16:18] <edmoore> i think abs mass might come into it
[16:18] <jcoxon> we can judge it indoors a bit
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> I think so to,
[16:19] <edmoore> as a low ascent rate of a heavy balloon means more 'excess' helium volume acting on a relatively smaller internal balloon surface
[16:19] <edmoore> cube/sqaure law etc
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> floating may be a good interim goal, but a float does not guarantee adequate superpressure
[16:19] <edmoore> i am guessing a bit here tho
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> is there a known burst pressure for those balloons yet?
[16:20] <jcoxon> yeah steve has measured it
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[16:20] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:splat#test_balloons
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> so the goal needs to be for a daytime launch, to acheive float when the differential pressure is somewhere around 80% of burst pressure, so that you don't drop below superpressure at night
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[16:22] <jcoxon> basically for this flight need to show that these balloons can actually float
[16:22] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
[16:22] <jcoxon> as all the past launches one balloon has burst
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[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> the calcs that Zuph and I did indicate that there's an extremely narrow margin for error on mass and helium volume between burst and no positive lift
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[16:23] <jcoxon> thats my fear as well
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd like to dig them up and do more, perhaps I'll talk on that at the conference
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> unless steve is planning to
[16:26] Nick change: smea -> smeAFK
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> who's steve on here?
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> ah rocketboy
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[16:50] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Booked a flight to the UK, eh?
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> heh no, skyping in, we can work out splitting the time if you want to
[16:52] <Zuph> heh, only if there's something you'd rather defer.
[16:52] Nick change: smeAFK -> smea
[16:53] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Do wwe have a ref sheet on the orbcomm xml spec?
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> we do, but it's scattered all over several docs, I've condensed it on the wiki I think,
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=hardware:radio:satellite:digim10:smtpinterface&s[]=xml
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[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> there should be an actual ORBCOMM XML Gateway spec doc in dropbox
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[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL> it's the same commands as email supports, though I think with the addition of one important one, which is 'clear the uplink queue'
[16:56] <Zuph> Just an interface spec that I can find. It provides an overview of the XML, but nothing technical
[16:57] <Dan-K2VOL> let me look around
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[17:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Doc name is "ORBCOMM XML Gateway Developer API Specification"
[17:01] <Zuph> what folder?
[17:02] <Dan-K2VOL> huh that's odd, I have it on my ipad, where I copied it out of dropbox, but it's no longer in the dropbox folder, let me see if it's in the history
[17:02] <Dan-K2VOL> would be Docs-datasheets/Digi M10
[17:03] <Zuph> heh, makes sense
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[17:11] <W0OTM> Howdy
[17:11] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: you seen my BallooMerang page? http://www.ihabproject.com/BallooMerang/
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> not yet, checking now!
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[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, using any off the shelf autopilots or all custom
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[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph it is there now
[17:15] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: the hardware is off the shelf, but code is custom
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> off the shelf airframe?
[17:17] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: yeah, with mods as well. We are working with the aircraft designer to make changes to fit our needs
[17:19] <Dan-K2VOL> doing any changes to have better aerodynamic control at high altiudes?
[17:29] <eroomde> bk
[17:29] <eroomde> W0OTM: v interested in this too
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[17:30] <eroomde> aerodynamic mods, that is
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[17:39] <eroomde> does anyone here use a standing desk?
[17:40] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: XML spec looks very simple, should be easy to write something that works with it. One silly claus, though: A user must not attempt a connection to the XML Gateway at a frequency greater than
[17:40] <Zuph> once per minute, and users are generally required to restrict the frequency of transactions
[17:40] <Zuph> of each type to one per minute.
[17:40] <Zuph> Oops, sorry for flood.
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[17:41] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> so it's really not much better than email, and with email we can simulate easily, do you see any more benefits?
[17:43] <Zuph> Yes.
[17:43] <Zuph> There are exceptions to that clause for sending and receiving messages, so we can do that very quickly.
[17:43] <Zuph> We can get push notifications for incoming messages.
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> open source people, if you write something on a big public project with a user interface, please study good user interfaces first. Inkscape is killing me
[17:44] <Zuph> Super detailled status for all sent and received messages, ability to delete messages from the queue, ability to set SC position from the ground easily.
[17:45] <Dan-K2VOL> well that's good, but if we switch from email we'll need to have someone modify or write another orbcomm network simulator
[17:45] <Randomskk> eroomde: standing desk you say?
[17:45] <eroomde> Randomskk: yes
[17:47] <Zuph> Yeah, but if we switch to xml we lose all of our least maintainable code, including the email downloading, email parsing, and uploading software.
[17:50] <Randomskk> xml is horrid! D:
[17:50] <Randomskk> eroomde: I want one
[17:50] <Randomskk> but they seem harder
[17:50] <Randomskk> like, to acquire
[17:50] <eroomde> yeah
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[17:51] <Laurenceb_> why dont we work on something useful
[17:51] <Randomskk> and like, it's not as though i could get one at work, as I don't really control my work environment to that level
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> you know, like a decent decoder modem
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> :P
[17:51] <Laurenceb_> tweaking waterfall based displays is a bit last millenium
[17:53] <eroomde> Randomskk: it's almost like we need to control our own workplace
[17:53] <Randomskk> it is almost like that, indeed
[18:01] <Randomskk> http://boingboing.net/2011/08/10/swedens-space-port.html
[18:01] <Randomskk> looks like some HABs there
[18:01] <eroomde> ?
[18:01] <eroomde> oh
[18:01] <eroomde> that's kiruna
[18:02] <eroomde> that's where i'll be doing the high altitude drop tests
[18:02] <Randomskk> sweet
[18:03] <eroomde> vorticity did the huygens drop tests there back in the 90s too
[18:03] <eroomde> it's a lovely place
[18:04] <eroomde> re: standing
[18:04] <eroomde> http://blog.fogcreek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/workstation2.jpg
[18:04] <eroomde> nirvana
[18:05] <eroomde> probably can't afford the newyork skyline tho
[18:05] <Randomskk> look how hip he is
[18:05] <eroomde> i know
[18:05] <Randomskk> except-- is that outlook?!
[18:06] <eroomde> i want to develop and eye condition
[18:06] <eroomde> just for the glasses
[18:06] <Randomskk> at least he has an iphone I guess
[18:06] <Randomskk> definitely not using a mac though
[18:06] <eroomde> truedat
[18:06] <eroomde> hmm, standing desk and a very big whiteboard next to it
[18:07] <eroomde> then we're all good
[18:07] <Randomskk> I'm told the floor mat you stand on is also important
[18:07] <eroomde> yes
[18:07] <eroomde> i have heard this too
[18:07] <eroomde> stands to reason
[18:07] <Randomskk> ha, ha
[18:07] <eroomde> unintentional but i'll go with it
[18:08] <Randomskk> at home I have an aeron and a nice solid chair-level desk though :/
[18:08] <russss> fog creek is a windows shop, iirc
[18:08] <eroomde> i think a motorised adjustable desk will be the way to go
[18:08] <Randomskk> that said once I get back to uni it'l be a cheap shit probably-not-even-swivel chair on a rubbish desk
[18:08] <Randomskk> could get some stands for it :o
[18:08] <Randomskk> russss: I guess, but it still loses them hip points
[18:08] <eroomde> i can feel an unhappy back atm
[18:09] <Laurenceb_> We had a different idea. What if the programmers were treated like rock stars?
[18:09] <Laurenceb_> wtf
[18:10] <eroomde> mmm it does read like a bit of a shill
[18:10] <Laurenceb_> http://www.fogcreek.com/images/fogcreek/about/highNotes.png <- also they fail at memes
[18:10] <eroomde> but i still want the standing desk
[18:10] Action: Laurenceb_ has just discovered cloc
[18:11] <Laurenceb_> thanks Zuph
[18:11] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately Dactyl codebase clocs in at 65K lines O_o
[18:12] <Laurenceb_> dunno how that happened
[18:12] <eroomde> Randomskk: and not just a whiteboard
[18:12] <eroomde> a backl;it piece of frosted glass
[18:12] <Randomskk> of course
[18:12] <eroomde> that serves you free lunch
[18:12] <Randomskk> UV backlit, with fluorescent pens?
[18:12] <eroomde> too much
[18:12] <Randomskk> haha
[18:12] <eroomde> rockstars get sunburn too y'know
[18:12] <Randomskk> I think the UV is a thing you turn on occasionally
[18:12] <Laurenceb_> dont talk about your wife that way
[18:13] <Randomskk> for like, when the press come round
[18:13] <Laurenceb_> <eroomde> a backl;it piece of frosted glass
[18:13] <eroomde> i want a standing desk but i want an eames chair and coffee table in my private office too
[18:13] <Laurenceb_> http://www.fogcreek.com/images/fogcreek/about/about2.png <- doooooch
[18:14] <BrainDamage> I want an office itfp :p
[18:14] <eroomde> itfp?
[18:14] <BrainDamage> in the first place
[18:14] <eroomde> oic
[18:14] <eroomde> oh i see
[18:27] <eroomde> Randomskk: what else do we need?
[18:28] <Randomskk> for what? being hip and cool? a mbp and two 27" thunderbolt displays, an apple keyboard and external trackpad
[18:29] <Randomskk> ipads and whiteboards for meetings
[18:29] <eroomde> lol
[18:29] <eroomde> ok
[18:29] <Randomskk> I dunno about ipads really
[18:29] <Randomskk> kegerator
[18:29] <eroomde> i want a glass-walled private office
[18:29] <eroomde> with those forsting lcd internal panels
[18:29] <eroomde> so it can be a whiteboard too
[18:30] <eroomde> but also let in light from all sides
[18:30] <Randomskk> http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/144
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[18:30] <Randomskk> beanbags and those giant bouncy ball things?
[18:30] <eroomde> a cask would be good
[18:30] <eroomde> a good fridge with lots of drinks and food
[18:30] <eroomde> and a chef
[18:30] <Randomskk> of course
[18:30] <eroomde> and a proper coffee machine
[18:31] <eroomde> and a selection of lesbian teas for when you don't want just tea
[18:31] <Randomskk> the entire selection of teas
[18:31] <Darkside> so how does a lesbian tea differ from a normal tea?
[18:31] <Darkside> it's from lesbos?
[18:31] <eroomde> builders tea is tea
[18:31] <eroomde> not builders tea is lesbian tea
[18:32] <Laurenceb_> if you say so
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[18:32] <eroomde> green, chai, peppermint, chive and hummus, old men's socks, etc
[18:32] <eroomde> all lesbian tea ^
[18:32] <Laurenceb_> twinings english breakfast?
[18:32] <eroomde> tea
[18:32] Action: Laurenceb_ has ^
[18:32] <eroomde> you're ok
[18:32] <Darkside> hahaha
[18:32] <Laurenceb_> :P
[18:33] <eroomde> ginger - lesbian
[18:33] <Darkside> i've heard chai tea is good when debugging code
[18:33] <Zuph> I don't understand the British.
[18:33] <eroomde> anything with the word infusion on the packet
[18:33] <Darkside> eroomde: bahahah
[18:33] <eroomde> actually i adore chai
[18:33] <eroomde> it really helps me work
[18:33] <Darkside> ok, time to go to sainsbury's and get some caffeine
[18:33] <Darkside> NEED CAFFEINE
[18:33] <eroomde> Zuph: which bit don't you understand?
[18:33] <eroomde> we generally do it deliberately to confuse Johnny Foreigner
[18:33] <Darkside> i need to get my remote SDR idea written down, so i can put it in as part of my research proposal
[18:34] <Darkside> eroomde: baha
[18:34] <Darkside> you can try and confuse me next weekend
[18:34] <eroomde> this weekend?
[18:34] <Darkside> both
[18:34] <eroomde> just one i think
[18:34] <Darkside> if you end up at the hackerspace, or end up at the launch
[18:34] <eroomde> oh yes
[18:34] <eroomde> i forgot
[18:34] <eroomde> i forget things
[18:35] <Darkside> are you coming to the launch?
[18:35] <eroomde> depends on whether or not i'm moving into new house
[18:35] <Darkside> and are you coming to the hackerspace?
[18:35] <Darkside> ahh ok
[18:35] <eroomde> i will probably be moving in one of the next 2 weekends
[18:35] <eroomde> i don't know which yet tho
[18:36] <eroomde> i guess unless i hear tomorrow, it'll be launch weekend
[18:36] <eroomde> but that means i have to come to cam anyway
[18:36] <eroomde> as 90% of my stuff is still there
[18:36] <Zuph> eroomde: The part about lady tea that likes other lady tea.
[18:36] <eroomde> ?
[18:37] <Darkside> hmm, sainsbury's local or waitrose..
[18:37] <eroomde> i wish the hackspace wasn't deliberately in the part of london calculated to be as far as possible from a tube station
[18:37] <Zuph> heh
[18:37] <Darkside> i might try sainsbury's, since waitrose doesn't seem to have the caffeine drinks i like
[18:37] <eroomde> Darkside: waitrose
[18:37] <Darkside> eroomde: you catch teh tube to whitechapel, then take the overground up to hoxton
[18:37] <Darkside> and the space is about 100m away
[18:37] <eroomde> as my german friend said, 'in waitrose the fish looks fresher and the people are less fat'
[18:37] <Darkside> eroomde: waitrose don't have the 4-packs of caffeine
[18:38] <eroomde> Darkside: yes i do do overgrounds
[18:38] <eroomde> just more faff
[18:38] <Darkside> neither does marks and spencer
[18:38] <eroomde> get classy darkside
[18:38] <Darkside> i think someone needs to start up a caffeine store
[18:38] <eroomde> get some expensive columbian coffee
[18:38] <Darkside> eroomde: lol
[18:38] <eroomde> and a caffetiere
[18:38] <Darkside> i've been shopping at waitrose so far
[18:38] <eroomde> it is a bit nicer than most supermarkets
[18:38] <Darkside> yeah
[18:38] <Darkside> it is nice
[18:38] <eroomde> still can be a bit trying tho
[18:39] <Darkside> anyway, ima go see what sainsbury's has in terms of caffeine range
[18:39] <Darkside> back later...
[18:39] <eroomde> compared to a farmshop with a guy called tom who will show you how to cut joints properly
[18:39] <eroomde> while blood is on the floor
[18:39] <eroomde> and everyone has wellington boots
[18:39] <eroomde> and they sell bread that is made from flour and water and salt
[18:40] <eroomde> as opposed to horrifying things
[18:40] <eroomde> i should say by way of explanation that i am in the middle of rural oxfordshire atm and it's bloody fantastic to be a foodie in a place like this
[18:42] <eroomde> i shall miss it when i move to ox proper
[18:44] <Randomskk> then it will just be drunk students partying it up and such I guess
[18:47] <eroomde> standard
[18:47] <eroomde> and farm shops that are not anywhere near a farm
[18:48] <eroomde> and not run by farmers
[18:48] <eroomde> and people in there will wear suede loafers
[18:51] <Darkside> ok back
[18:51] <Darkside> sainsbusy's is very close..
[18:51] <Darkside> i found an interesting variation on "relentless" called relentless 'immortus'
[18:52] <Darkside> apparently it is 50% juice
[18:52] <Darkside> OMFG
[18:52] <Darkside> it tastes like tropical juice
[18:52] <eroomde> don't drink that stuff
[18:52] <Darkside> omfg, its 43% orange juice
[18:52] <Darkside> awesome
[18:52] <eroomde> i had 16 cans on morning btween 3am and 10am
[18:52] <eroomde> doing an alnighter
[18:52] <Darkside> 16 cans!
[18:52] <eroomde> my piss was abnormal for about 4 weeks after
[18:52] <MrCraig> erm
[18:52] <eroomde> yes
[18:52] <Darkside> jesus
[18:53] <eroomde> i was on a may ball committee
[18:53] <Darkside> i max out at 1 or 2 cans a day
[18:53] <Darkside> never more than that, too much caffeine
[18:53] <eroomde> i had been up 72hrs straight and had to do a compelte stripdown of college after the ball wrapped up
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[18:53] <eroomde> i was totally powered by artificial chemical
[18:53] <Darkside> heh
[18:54] <MrCraig> I don't think you're supposed to drink the stuff relentlessly?
[18:54] <Darkside> haha
[18:54] <Darkside> yes
[18:55] <MrCraig> my first ever can was just as it was introduced here - I was already a caffine junkie and it blew my head off (though I did have a head ache prior to drinking)
[18:55] <Darkside> hehe
[18:55] <Darkside> i admit it, i'm a caffeine junkie
[18:55] <Darkside> i need caffeine to get through the day
[18:56] <Darkside> well, to be*useful* throughout the day
[18:56] <MrCraig> Went and had an ECG today - possible Left atrial enlargement. I'm cutting down on caffine now, I'm too young to have machines telling me there's an error in my hardware.
[18:57] <MrCraig> Nothing too serious though thankfully - the doctor has approved a new exercise regime
[18:57] <Randomskk> eroomde: chu? may ball?
[18:57] <Darkside> eek
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[18:58] <eroomde> Randomskk: nope teching for someone else
[18:58] <eroomde> tho i was on chu spring ball committee too
[18:58] <eroomde> production managing
[18:58] <eroomde> stupid idea
[18:58] <eroomde> too much work
[18:58] <Randomskk> hah
[18:58] <Randomskk> which was that?
[18:58] <eroomde> 2008?
[18:58] <eroomde> my 2nd year
[18:58] <eroomde> yeah 208
[18:59] <eroomde> worth doing once
[18:59] <eroomde> but not the easiest
[18:59] <Randomskk> I can imagine
[18:59] <Randomskk> the friends I had on the selwyn snowball one were wrecked afterwards
[18:59] <Randomskk> chu '11 was wicked fun though :P
[19:00] <eroomde> it does wreck you
[19:00] <eroomde> people were hullicinating during cleanup
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[19:00] <Upu> Evening
[19:01] <Darkside> Only one Australian station exists, broadcasting for one hour a day from Queensland, with it's antenna directed at the Pacific ocean.
[19:01] simhed (~simhed@absq226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[19:01] <Darkside> i.e. FUCK YOU RADIO AUSTRALIA
[19:01] <Darkside> Y U NO DIGITAL RADIO
[19:01] <MrCraig> H0n3ym0n5t3r
[19:01] <MrCraig> oops
[19:01] <Darkside> fuckers buggering up my research...
[19:01] <Upu> nice password
[19:02] <Upu> I'll takeit
[19:02] <MrCraig> typing passwords in the wrong places :-P
[19:02] <Darkside> MrCraig: didn't you see todays XKCD?
[19:02] <MrCraig> wasn't even the right one for the intended box
[19:02] <MrCraig> Darkside: XKCD ?
[19:02] <Darkside> >_>
[19:02] <Darkside> oh god
[19:02] <Darkside> http://xkcd.com/
[19:02] <Darkside> its a webcomic
[19:03] <Darkside> you may want to allow a good day or so to go through the archive
[19:03] <fsphil> lol
[19:03] <MrCraig> aah - I've seen before but don't religeously follow it
[19:03] <Darkside> *totally* worth it
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[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:04] <fsphil> mmm custard
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> tasty
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[19:05] <fsphil> howdy LL
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:05] <fsphil> not too bad, some heavy rain - watching the lightning map
[19:05] <fsphil> you?
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, just had a Dutch pizza and rain also
[19:05] <MrCraig> ahh - so the password I use for my work computer with all those intellectual property secrets sux :-P We'll it's been telling me for 11 days to change it. *sigh*
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:05] <Darkside> no rain here yet
[19:05] <Darkside> should i be expecting some?
[19:06] <LazyLeopard> ...and don't forget the XKCD mouseovers
[19:07] <fsphil> Darkside, some heading your way yea
[19:07] <Darkside> yay
[19:07] <fsphil> well, it might miss you - looks like it's passing just north of bath
[19:10] <eroomde> showers in bath
[19:10] <eroomde> LOL
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
[19:13] <Darkside> aha
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> hi eroomde
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> and hi Darkside, hi cuddykid and Dan-K2VOL
[19:15] <Dan-K2VOL> hey kev
[19:15] <eroomde> yo
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> how are your lives?
[19:17] <Darkside> good
[19:17] <Darkside> i'm making a half-hearted attempt to write up stuff
[19:19] <Darkside> still need to get my head round this lit review too..
[19:19] <Darkside> ugh
[19:19] <Darkside> thankfully it doesn't have to be too long
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[19:20] <Darkside> tbh the only people that will read this are my supervisors
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:20] <Darkside> i *really* hope we get funding for the space-segment of this
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> that would be cool
[19:20] <Darkside> i would so very much love to put a remotely-controllable SDR into space
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> SDR?
[19:21] <Darkside> software defined radio
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> cpp
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:21] <Darkside> a wide-bandwidth receiver, with a ridiculous tuning range
[19:22] <Darkside> if i get hold of the ICs i want, i'll be able to tune from 150KHz to about 2GHz
[19:22] <Darkside> and get 90KHz of bandwidth
[19:22] <Darkside> my problem will be getting useful data down to the ground
[19:23] <Darkside> i'm not expecting to get more than a 9600 baud downlink
[19:24] <Darkside> i'm going to need some serious compression on the downlinked data
[19:25] <fsphil> 9600 is probably optimistic too
[19:25] <Darkside> nah, 9600 is easy
[19:25] <Darkside> lots of cubesats have 9600 baud downlinks
[19:25] <fsphil> continuous?
[19:25] <Darkside> what'd be cool is a S-Band downlink
[19:25] <Darkside> fsphil: they usually turn on when over a ground station
[19:26] <fsphil> coolies
[19:26] <Darkside> S-band can supposedly get 1Mbps, though you need a pretty hefty ground station antenna
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[19:28] <Darkside> would be very cool tho
[19:29] <Darkside> uplink is also going to be fun...
[19:32] <hibby> no one has a clue about uplink, afail
[19:32] <hibby> afaik...
[19:32] <hibby> there we go.
[19:33] <hibby> most people who are reasonable and realistic think that getting 1.beep back from ukube will be a sucess
[19:34] <Darkside> hibby: heh
[19:34] <hibby> but they still want exotic formats :/
[19:34] <fsphil> I'd be disappointed if I didn't get at least two beeps
[19:34] <Darkside> yeah, the guy i talked to at clyde space didn't know much
[19:34] <Darkside> aren't they using the standard cubesat VHF stuff?
[19:35] <hibby> steve greenland? say hi from me
[19:35] <Darkside> i think it was steve, yeah
[19:35] <Darkside> he keeps referring us to some other guy for our software questions
[19:35] <hibby> dunno. funcube is one of the transmitters
[19:35] <Darkside> andy? maybe
[19:36] <Darkside> i dunno his name,... anyway, he apparently wrote the payload protocol spec
[19:36] <hibby> ukube has a lot of academics playing the my brain is bigger than yours game at the moment
[19:36] <Darkside> ugh
[19:37] <Darkside> i just want to get a few packts of data down from TOPCAT, and i'll be happy...
[19:37] <hibby> 'we developed this and it might be goodto try...' 'did you consider...' etc
[19:37] <Darkside> i don't see why they don't just outsource all the uplink/downlink stuff to AMSAT
[19:38] <hibby> its gotta get up there
[19:38] <hibby> i wont be surprised if its 2013/4 at this rate
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> my Balloon will be up before
[19:38] <Darkside> seriously, AMSAT have more experience than clyde space would
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:38] <fsphil> that's pushing it Lunar_Lander :)
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> btw eroomde?
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea fsphil
[19:39] <hibby> clyde spqce just d power
[19:39] <Darkside> hibby: at least AMSATs sats work well when they aren't manhandled by russian cosmonauts
[19:39] <fsphil> and even work after that
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[19:39] <hibby> expecting more is like eaiting for glass to grow out the sand
[19:39] <Darkside> hibby: heh
[19:39] <Darkside> they shouldn't have let a uni handle the platform
[19:39] <Darkside> should have been farmed out to surrey space or someone
[19:40] <Darkside> have the uni's handle the payloads
[19:40] <Darkside> but get someone with experience to do the platform
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:40] <Darkside> clyde space told us not to bother with vacuum testing
[19:40] <Darkside> i'm just WTFing...
[19:41] <Darkside> we're still going to do vacuum testing anyway...
[19:41] <Darkside> i'm not taking any chances
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[19:43] <Darkside> also was having a painful day with a TPS62050 today
[19:43] <Darkside> the chips are way too easy to kill
[19:44] <Darkside> and the failure mode we're seeing causes the enable line voltage to appear at the output pin
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Darkside
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> it is like what I had intended
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> prepare the balloon
[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> and have people fly experiments on it
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[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> does anybody know if mattltm has been actually here in the recent time
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> I know he is online
[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> but did he say something?
[19:53] <Darkside> i saw him a few days ago
[19:54] <natrium42> what happened to the iceland launch, btw?
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> balloon or rocket?
[19:54] <natrium42> balloon
[19:54] <natrium42> there was a rocket??
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> I am asking you
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> who wanted to do ballooning there?
[19:54] <natrium42> it's on spacenear.us
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah looks like a sim
[20:03] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone need 116 balloons? http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=4637428&convertTo=USD
[20:03] <natrium42> are they red?
[20:03] <fsphil> it just kind of stopped natrium42
[20:03] <natrium42> fsphil: ouch
[20:04] <fsphil> no word from the guys doing the launch
[20:04] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[20:04] <fsphil> suspect they fell asleep after they released it :)
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:10] <fsphil> thunder!
[20:10] <Darkside> and lightning?
[20:10] <Darkside> very very frightning?
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[20:16] <fsphil> lightning, very very exciting :)
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:16] <fsphil> antennas disconnected
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> Galileo!
[20:16] <fsphil> brb :)
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> Galileo magnifico
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> or what they sing in the song
[20:18] <BrainDamage> I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:19] <MrCraig> was there ever a less helpful piece of text than 'type HELP to see this help message.'
[20:20] <NigeyS> lol MrCraig
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS
[20:21] <NigeyS> hey Kev
[20:22] <Darkside> BrainDamage is just a poor boy, from a poor family
[20:22] <Darkside> spare him his life from this monstrosity!
[20:22] <BrainDamage> mamma mia, mamma mia, mamma mia let me go!
[20:22] <Darkside> hibby: OH MAN
[20:22] <Darkside> i need to put some ponies on the TOPCAT silk-screen artwork
[20:23] <BrainDamage> belzebu has a devil put inside on me
[20:23] <Darkside> hibby: maybe a rainbow dash
[20:23] <NigeyS> Darkside, have you seen my gaffa tape?
[20:23] <natrium42> best thread ever --> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/jelt1/dear_anonlulzsec_can_you_destroy_the_entire/c2bg9cy
[20:23] <BrainDamage> damn, I should have started a streaming radio, I'm playing the ridd with my guitar atm :p
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5oXFJq-BRI
[20:23] <Darkside> NigeyS: no?
[20:23] <Darkside> i assume its pink?
[20:24] <NigeyS> noo, i mean the stuff we used saturday lol, cant find it, hope i aint left it upp there :|
[20:24] <Darkside> oh
[20:24] <Darkside> nope
[20:24] <NigeyS> kk
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[20:25] Action: NigeyS steals Upu's pink gaffa tape
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[20:33] <fsphil> mmm three lightning bolts so far
[20:33] <fsphil> not a very active storm
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> Keep a lookout for the much more elusive counterpart of the lightning bolt. The lightning nut.
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:34] <fsphil> ooooh
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> we need to build field mills
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> have them ready for thunderstorms
[20:36] <eroomde> 'I'm going to launch a hab to 40km'
[20:36] <eroomde> 'bitch wha?' http://i.imgur.com/PWjyr.jpg
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, and if he does he wouldn't even break the record
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> because that is at 41.3 IIRC
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> That child is clearly out of control, and on drugs.
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Look at the pupils.
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:38] <Randomskk> eroomde: you know what would be excellent? a homebrew recipe for dl-fldigi
[20:40] <eroomde> lots of work
[20:40] <Randomskk> is it?
[20:40] <Randomskk> I've not compiled it on my mac before
[20:40] <Randomskk> but may as well try
[20:40] <Randomskk> tons of annoying dependencies? can't brew take care of them?
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> field mills are easyish to make
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[20:42] <Laurenceb_> ive had one running in a storm once
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> you can see the charge build up before each discharge
[20:44] <fsphil> no more lightning from this one so far
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:53] <eroomde> this defeated me. i snorted my drink
[20:53] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/X6PBr.jpg
[20:54] <NigeyS> lol
[20:55] <NigeyS> http://i.imgur.com/fBF3o.jpg
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[21:06] <Darkside> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HccVFq6xA4k hibby
[21:13] <MrCraig> Could I please get an estimate [ 1 - 10 ] of how sad it is that instead of writing code functionality in the past two hours, I spent the time making it look like a commodore 64 and enabling threading just so that I can have a flashing "loading style" colored border while it works?
[21:14] <Darkside> 8
[21:14] <NigeyS> 9.9
[21:14] <MrCraig> thanks, that's a reasonable while alarming result - but not unexpected.
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5oXFJq-BRI
[21:15] <fsphil> gotta love the flashy border loaders
[21:15] <MrCraig> lol Lunar_Lander
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:16] <Darkside> what is this i don't even
[21:16] <MrCraig> totally fsphil - it's a database meta-check utility to be used by staff at work (no one outside) so I figured I'd put a bit of humour in it.
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[21:19] <fsphil> how many people there are likely to get it?
[21:19] <MrCraig> 20 or so CDT team
[21:20] <MrCraig> (sorry, central delivery team - without the team thing )
[21:20] <fsphil> I had an amiga-style guru error in one program, but nobody got the reference
[21:20] <fsphil> just not a geeky workforce :)
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> Grue error would be more awesome.
[21:21] <MrCraig> hehehe - well most of these guys aren't uber geeks - but to operate the tool you're faced with a very C64-esk screen and instructed to type GO - upon which it begins working and the border flashes as in loading (now if I'd made the instruction "load 8,*" that would be too much :-P
[21:22] <fsphil> "PRESS PLAY ON TAPE"
[21:22] <MrCraig> I am soooo gonna put a 6510 (6502) in orbit some day.
[21:24] <fsphil> and a SID chip to do the rtty tones :)
[21:24] <Darkside> haha
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0022572 - wow, just wow.
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> A broad-spectrum effective antiviral.
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> (if it works)
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> eeek rioting in Derby
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> police seem to have it under control tho
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> only a few streets away
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> I'm of the general view that these sorts of people should be treated gently. Just one bullet to the head.
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[21:34] <Upu> should just fit sniper rifles to CCTV cameras and shoot anyone wearing a shell suit
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[21:34] <Upu> hello
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> thanks again for the NTX2 code
[21:34] <Upu> oh more than welcome
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> now the thing is, how can I integrate a GPS to it? the Venus GPS specifically
[21:36] <Darkside> l2code?
[21:36] <Darkside> :P
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> probably I should learn to code
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:37] <Darkside> Eeyup
[21:37] <Upu> may help :)
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> I mean the code shouldn't be that hard
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> from what I read up to now
[21:37] <Darkside> you'll have to learn a bit about string construction
[21:37] <Darkside> amongst other things
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> that is what the transmitter outputs right?
[21:38] <Upu> read the common coding errors bit
[21:38] <Upu> GPS should output serial data
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:38] <Upu> '
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> you mean that PDF that is on the Venus GPS sparkfun site?
[21:38] <Darkside> Upu: hmm speaking of which, i need to check my code will handle crossing the meridian
[21:38] <Darkside> any info on that?
[21:38] <Upu> sure
[21:38] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: it'll output standard NMEA sentences
[21:38] <Upu> we uploaded loads of test data
[21:39] <Darkside> theres an arduino library called TinyGPS that'll parse that and allow you access to the data
[21:39] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> so I just need that library and its contents?
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> like that other library "SD.h"?
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> which is for SD cards
[21:40] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: and wriy your own code that wraps around it
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> for transmitting and sensor reading you mean?
[21:40] <Darkside> yes
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:41] <Darkside> Upu: $$DARKSIDE,%d,%02d:%02d:%02d,%s,%s,%ld,%d,%d;%d;%s;%d"
[21:41] <Darkside> hold on..
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> what I saw is that arduino allows you to use a program with several .h and .cpp files
[21:41] <Darkside> oh there we go
[21:41] <Darkside> Upu: juxta wrote his own float to string code
[21:41] <Darkside> not sure if i trust it :P
[21:42] <Upu> just don't use float to string
[21:42] <Upu> just do it all in integer
[21:42] <Darkside> http://pastebin.com/hgFsHFf2
[21:42] <Upu> there are libraries to do it but hey are huge
[21:42] <Darkside> thats his float to string code
[21:43] <Darkside> theres also dtostrf
[21:43] <Darkside> the c builtin function
[21:43] <Upu> I just did it in integer 1 sec
[21:43] <Darkside> are you taking data fro tinygps?
[21:44] <Darkside> i.e. gps.f_get_position(&lat, &lon);
[21:44] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/EMVi3Zqa
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> OK I can see in the common coding errors something that reminds me of daveakes flight
[21:45] <Darkside> hmm
[21:45] <Darkside> i think i'll make up a bit of python code to pretend to be a uBlox GPS
[21:45] <Darkside> and have it feed in values
[21:45] <Upu> that map on the page is Daveakes flight :)
[21:46] <Darkside> haha
[21:46] <Darkside> actually i can probably test this code without all that stuff
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:46] <Darkside> i can just give it float values and make it output the generated string via serial
[21:47] <Upu> I put some testing notes up
[21:47] <Upu> you just feed it in as a pseudo GPS
[21:47] <Darkside> the gps sim wont work for me
[21:47] <Upu> Rob did a fake path going round the 0,0 point
[21:47] <Upu> why not ?
[21:47] <Darkside> as we use the uBlox's polled mode
[21:47] <Darkside> we turn off all NMEA sentences
[21:47] <Darkside> and just poll the GPS when we want data
[21:48] <Darkside> it outputs everything on one sentence
[21:48] <Upu> well check the padding works on it
[21:48] <Darkside> well its the data from the uBlox, that part should be fine
[21:48] <Darkside> but i'll have to do some testing
[21:48] <Upu> ok
[21:48] <Upu> yes
[21:48] <Darkside> OH MAN
[21:48] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[21:48] <Darkside> i know what i'm going to do
[21:48] <Upu> I thought my code was ok until I tested it
[21:48] <Darkside> i can 1up all your testing stufff
[21:48] <Darkside> i'll see if i can break out the GPS simulator unit at uni
[21:49] <Darkside> which actually simulates the signals from the GPS sats -)
[21:49] <Darkside> :-)
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> What would be cool would be to hack that.
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> Generate a 20 min sequence - 15 min of broadcasting stationary position, then a test sequence
[21:50] <Darkside> it can do that
[21:50] <Darkside> it can do space simulations too
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> And record that datastream, so you can rebroadcast it using only a DAC and a RAM
[21:50] <Darkside> we're going to use that to test that the 'space rated' gps we have will actually work at 10KM/s
[21:50] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: but hard to do that
[21:50] <Darkside> bit*
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> And a very accurate clock of course.
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> A bit, but not _that_ bad.
[21:51] <Darkside> maybe with a USRP you could record it
[21:51] <Darkside> then play it back
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> I have idly wondered before about the moon
[21:51] <Darkside> i'm pretty sure this simulator is basically a USRP kind of thing and a PC
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> You need (IIRC) a 1.4m dish or so pointed at the earth on the moon to get GPS signals from the sats coming over teh horizon.
[21:52] <Darkside> ookay
[21:53] <Darkside> im not sure what the simulation limits of this receiver are
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Error sucks a bit of course due to the hideous dilution of position.
[21:53] <Darkside> i know the max velocity is 10KM/s
[21:53] <Darkside> not sure about the max altitude
[21:54] <Darkside> also, we might be flying a scintillation receiver at some point
[21:54] <Darkside> that'll be fun :P
[21:55] <Darkside> note: not going to be launching that in the UK. We're kind of going to want it back, as it's worth 10000 pounds
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> scintillation for cosmic rays?
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Scintillation of reflected GPS>
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> So
[21:56] <Darkside> not reflected
[21:56] <Darkside> direct paths
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> in that TinyGPS library, the pins are fixed to 8 and 9
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> that I learned now
[21:57] <Darkside> Lunar_Lander: theres nothing about that in the TinyGPS library
[21:57] <Darkside> thats probably just one of the examples
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Ah. Twinkle twinkle little satellite. As they come over the horizon?
[21:57] <Darkside> you sent to pass tinygps bytes of data from whatever serial interface you've attached the gps to
[21:57] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: not just over the horizon, but yes, thats the main focus
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah OK
[21:58] <Darkside> we'll collect data from all sats, but the low elevation ones will be the most interesting
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that was in the old arduino forum Darkside
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> Better ionosphere modelling?
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> someone said that the tinyGPS example and his Venus GPS won't work
[21:58] <Darkside> our problem is that the normally observed scintillation frequency is pretty similar to the spin rate of a balloon payload
[21:58] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: Eeyup
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> and someone remarked that with pin 8 and 9
[21:58] Action: SpeedEvil wishes his idea had come to pass.
[21:58] <Darkside> i need some way of stabilizing the balloon payload, or at least slowing the spin rate down a lot
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> An idea around the openmoko phone.
[21:59] <Darkside> we need to be able to filter out the amplitude oscillations caused by the spinning of the payload
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> P2P ionospheric modeling.
[21:59] <Darkside> >_>
[21:59] <Darkside> you can't get good enough data from most GPSes
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> All stationary phones on USB contribute to the model.
[21:59] <K6HX> isn't the obvious way to slow the rate to mount a long boom (like a tight rope walkers pole) on the payload?
[21:59] <Darkside> basically all commercial GPSes are shithouse for getting accurate pseudorange data
[21:59] <K6HX> i recognize you have mass issues, but...
[21:59] <Darkside> K6HX: might work, yes
[21:59] <Darkside> like, a very long wind vane kind of thing
[22:00] Action: SpeedEvil forgets the link.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Tehre was someone showing 10cm positioning on the OM GPS
[22:00] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: theres a reason the receivers we use for scintillation measurements cost 10000 pounds
[22:00] <Darkside> its not just about the positioning
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> using them differentially.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> I know.
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> "Theoretical Equatorial not really an issue but worth mentioning for our Kenyan viewers."
[22:01] <Darkside> heh
[22:01] <Darkside> dammit, my programmer is at uni still
[22:01] <Darkside> i'll need to steal it for the weekend, so i can hack on this at the london hackerspace
[22:01] <Darkside> i won't be able to take the gps simulator with me though >_>
[22:01] <Darkside> however cool that may be
[22:02] <LazyLeopard> Lunar_Lander: Heh ;)
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> LOOOL "Not so much a bug but it's advised you use a data type that can handle negative numbers for the altitude. Occasionally the GPS can report negative altitudes on the ground, if you're using an unsigned integer this overflows. As an example -4 meters would become 65531 meters. Impressive but we wouldn't be able to accept this as a record :) "
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> we need to avoid that if we get to do a Dead Sea launch
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> that would be the lowest HAB ever
[22:03] <Upu> thats mine Lunar_Lander :)
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> -400 m
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[22:05] <hibby> Darkside: emulate one in software
[22:05] <Darkside> hibby: heh
[22:05] <Darkside> could probably do it with a USRP
[22:06] <hibby> can do it in linux and just write the output to a ttyS
[22:06] <Darkside> eh?
[22:06] <Darkside> no no no
[22:06] <hibby> serial port
[22:06] <Darkside> i mean simulate the actual signals from the sats
[22:06] <Darkside> which is what the box at ui does
[22:06] <hibby> ah
[22:06] <Darkside> it can fool a gps into think its somewhere else
[22:07] <hibby> so your module is triangulating regardless, aye
[22:07] <Darkside> yes
[22:07] <Darkside> it does weird shit
[22:07] <hibby> I think that's Weird Shit (tm)
[22:07] <Darkside> i want to see what happens when i do a simulation with the uBlox module at 600km altitude
[22:07] <Darkside> heh
[22:07] <Darkside> the simulator costs 40000 pounds
[22:07] <hibby> that's heavy
[22:09] <Darkside> eeyup
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[22:19] <simhed> guys, can anyone point me to a resource that could help me switch on the airborne mode in lassenIQ? i cant get it to work..
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[22:38] <Laurenceb_> hmm code on the wiki somewhere
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLftrYBK6_M
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[22:46] <MrCraig> goodnight.
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[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> :-*
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> that was for my girlfriend and not for the channel
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Cory Cash "Re: [UKHAS] Payload XML"
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[23:56] <nickolai> evening all
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[23:59] <nickolai> hey Lunar_Lander
[23:59] <nickolai> how are you?
[00:00] --- Thu Aug 11 2011