highaltitude.log.20110807

[00:10] <Elwell> err old, but have you lot seen http://www.clusterballoon.com/
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[06:18] <edmoore> morning
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[06:40] <SamSilver> edmoore: morning to you
[06:40] <SamSilver> enjoying your mba?
[06:41] <edmoore> 1080p flash vid smooth as a nut while making a presentation
[06:41] <edmoore> it's excellent!
[06:41] <SamSilver> 11inch 128 * 4
[06:42] <SamSilver> I am enjoying sourdough bread toasted with avocado pear
[06:43] <edmoore> nice!
[06:43] <edmoore> i had a really visceral sense that it was monday when my alarm went off
[06:43] <SamSilver> got much more stuff to load ?
[06:43] <edmoore> the nicest releif ever to find out it was sunday
[06:44] <edmoore> SamSilver: not too much
[06:44] <edmoore> i'm keeping it simple
[06:44] <SamSilver> a bit of pyton?
[06:44] <SamSilver> python
[06:44] <edmoore> yup :)
[06:44] <SamSilver> some tiger?
[06:44] <edmoore> i have numpy and scipy and matplotlib and ipython.
[06:45] <SamSilver> what about some art work for the outside
[06:45] <SamSilver> like that pac man gag
[06:46] <edmoore> maybe laser etching?
[06:47] <SamSilver> yip
[06:48] <SamSilver> cat walked across key board, skype comes up with error " could not find friend pjknhycfddaaaa"
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[06:50] <edmoore> it just wants a friend
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[08:11] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:16] <number10> morning
[08:17] <Hiena> Yup, morning.
[08:22] <Hiena> I had a sweet dream. I flew at the edge of the space, when i heard strange vibrating sound. Started to investigating around the cockpit, checked the life support, the engine, and woke up, noticing my girlfriend snoring mext to me.
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[08:25] <edmoore> Randomskk or jonsowman or DanielRichman : if i send one of you a new pub key for me for nessie, could you poss plonk it into my .ssh/ ?
[08:25] <edmoore> my old machine went down with the last pair
[08:25] <jcoxon> morning edmoore
[08:26] <edmoore> morning jcoxon
[08:26] <edmoore> how are tricks?
[08:26] <edmoore> also, you xcould do this too :)
[08:26] <jcoxon> good thanks
[08:26] <jcoxon> indeed
[08:27] <jcoxon> that said i don't have access to your .ssh
[08:27] <edmoore> oh
[08:27] <edmoore> not to worry then
[08:27] <edmoore> well, i guess freenode's webchat will have to do for now
[08:28] <jcoxon> i'm sure they'll be on later
[08:28] <jcoxon> hows oxford?
[08:28] <edmoore> have you moved yet?
[08:28] <edmoore> it's lovely
[08:28] <edmoore> coding in a conservatory
[08:28] <jcoxon> :-p
[08:28] <jcoxon> yeah i've moved
[08:28] <edmoore> coffee and croissant and birds on the feeder outside
[08:29] <edmoore> i take pleasure from the same things that 40 year olds do
[08:29] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:30] <edmoore> how is it?
[08:30] <jcoxon> yeah flat is very nice
[08:30] <jcoxon> city is nice
[08:30] <jcoxon> work is hard
[08:31] <jcoxon> lots of oncalls
[08:31] <edmoore> as it should be
[08:31] <jcoxon> oh this is on another level
[08:32] <jcoxon> at points i'm the only surgeon in the hospital
[08:32] <jcoxon> and i'm so not a surgeon
[08:32] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:32] <jcoxon> but the flip side is i get lots of time off
[08:32] <jcoxon> to match my legal hours
[08:32] <fsphil> do you mention this to the patients? :)
[08:32] <jcoxon> haha
[08:33] <edmoore> TOIL is a nice thing
[08:34] <edmoore> i'd do 4 day weeks if i could
[08:34] <edmoore> jcoxon: i caved in and got a macbook air
[08:34] <jcoxon> yeah i've got 25 days off in the next 4 months
[08:34] <edmoore> it's really lovely
[08:34] <jcoxon> edmoore, :-)
[08:34] <edmoore> my venerable mbp gave up the ghost when i tried to upgrade to lion
[08:34] <edmoore> 5 years of good service
[08:35] <jcoxon> the mbas are really nice
[08:35] <edmoore> there's a shit tonne of hab stuff i want to recover from it though
[08:35] <jcoxon> well you in theory can boot it into a external hard drive mode
[08:35] <edmoore> it's seen everything since nova 2, that laptop
[08:35] <edmoore> from nova 2*
[08:36] <edmoore> jcoxon: we've been doing this hab stuff for an awfully long time now
[08:36] <jcoxon> indeed
[08:36] <edmoore> you even longer
[08:36] <jcoxon> hehe
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[08:37] <jcoxon> its been good fun
[08:39] <edmoore> yep
[08:39] <edmoore> it's quite amazing now
[08:40] <edmoore> the predictor goes down and you start getting emails from bangalore or norway complaining that they need it back
[08:40] <jcoxon> :-)
[08:40] <edmoore> initially it was useful for about 3 people in the world
[08:40] <jcoxon> i like the way we are experiementing in new things
[08:40] <edmoore> assuming they could remember the command line incantations
[08:40] <jcoxon> i used to have a local copy :-)
[08:41] <fsphil> it's essential for me
[08:41] <edmoore> ejcweb is doing a google internship in zurich atm
[08:42] <edmoore> he got an email from anoother googler which started with: "'You guys did habhub?! That is a great tool! I have been talking with some of the NASA guys about it recently with regard to...'"
[08:42] <jcoxon> really!
[08:42] <edmoore> yup
[08:42] <edmoore> verbatim
[08:42] <jcoxon> what follows the ... ?
[08:42] <fsphil> bah, this would be sweet: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=7fbe24d33f9396fa9d3b4d4cb8a10c9f80a877cb
[08:42] <edmoore> jcoxon: not sure. that's all he put in the email to me
[08:42] <jcoxon> fair enough
[08:42] <edmoore> maybe some super secret internal google thing
[08:43] <jcoxon> most likely
[08:43] <edmoore> fsphil: nice
[08:43] <edmoore> take advantage!
[08:43] <jcoxon> edmoore, you see my little table of data?
[08:43] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:microballoons:data
[08:43] <Upu> morning
[08:43] <fsphil> would make the CAA angry edmoore :(
[08:43] <fsphil> morning Upu
[08:43] <edmoore> jcoxon: nice
[08:44] <edmoore> tho we haven't had the mystical float yet
[08:44] <jcoxon> not yet
[08:44] <jcoxon> but we will!
[08:44] <jcoxon> my feeling is that if we do get it it'll last quite a long time
[08:44] <Upu> maybe we need some redundancy on habhub
[08:44] <edmoore> i really want to atack this 36km frontier
[08:44] <edmoore> there's stuff up there that needs explaining
[08:45] <jcoxon> in what way?
[08:45] <edmoore> the floating
[08:45] <jcoxon> oh yeah
[08:46] <edmoore> i want to understand why it does it
[08:46] <jcoxon> but we showed that it doesn't need to be 36km
[08:46] <edmoore> partly because being able to deliberately get a few hours of 36km float would be really useful
[08:46] <edmoore> and partly because to break through it we need to understand it anyway
[08:46] <jcoxon> we can get it to float lower if we time it correctly
[08:46] <edmoore> jcoxon: well, roughly 36km
[08:47] <edmoore> why without any float mechanism of sun stuff it can still float at 36
[08:47] <jcoxon> edmoore, i reckon we should do a ballasthalo style flight but without a vent
[08:47] <edmoore> yep
[08:47] <jcoxon> see if its a similar concept
[08:47] <edmoore> let it float, instrument the neck, then dump ballast
[08:47] <edmoore> see what happens
[08:47] <jcoxon> well we could skip the ballast
[08:47] <jcoxon> just let it float
[08:48] <jcoxon> ballast would only shorten the flight
[08:48] <edmoore> true
[08:48] <edmoore> well, as long as we can get some good sensors in the balloon then i'm happy
[08:48] <edmoore> i think i really just want differential pressure and temperature
[08:49] <edmoore> and a vanilla payload otherwise
[08:49] <jcoxon> edmoore, we should do it
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[08:49] <edmoore> actually i may be able to get some HD cameras to film the balloon
[08:49] <edmoore> get burst
[08:49] <edmoore> and maybe 300fps too
[08:49] <edmoore> although that would be a bit heavy for one of the floaters
[08:50] <edmoore> but a conventional flight, yes
[08:50] <jcoxon> well i have atlas payload from the tree
[08:50] <fsphil> film the burst from inside the camera, one of those little keychain cameras
[08:50] <fsphil> inside the balloon*
[08:51] <fsphil> nah it'll be too quick and they're not very good quality cameras
[08:52] <jcoxon> bbiab
[08:53] <edmoore> but those decent quality helmet-mount hd cameras would be good
[08:53] <edmoore> the sort that are ballpark 2AA Maglite size
[08:54] <fsphil> they would too
[08:55] <fsphil> the top of the balloon is never filmed during burst because of the perspective
[08:55] <edmoore> yeah
[08:55] <edmoore> high speed would be the interesting bit though
[08:56] <edmoore> thankfully these hoywee balloons have really big necks
[08:56] <edmoore> so you can do a lot more with them
[08:56] <fsphil> big enough for a large camera? I've not used one yet - just the smaller ones
[08:57] <edmoore> sort of 60mm dia
[08:57] <edmoore> maybe more
[08:57] <Upu> you could get a Canon DSLR up there tbh :)
[08:57] <Upu> 10cms for the 1600g
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[09:00] <edmoore> 10 is it?
[09:00] <edmoore> gosh
[09:00] <edmoore> i let one of those go accidently for eads astrium
[09:00] <jcoxon> eek
[09:01] <edmoore> it just went phwthump and i saw a fill tube looking back at me
[09:01] <edmoore> confused
[09:01] <edmoore> and looked up half a second later to see a balloon tearing off
[09:01] <edmoore> iain did the same yesterday
[09:01] <fsphil> that's my biggest fear when launching :) that and a failed gps
[09:01] <edmoore> we really need a new fill rig for these bloody things
[09:02] <jcoxon> that said they are great once filled to take off the tube
[09:02] <edmoore> :)
[09:02] <edmoore> i think with the instrumented balloon launch i'll pre-atack it to a neck tube with computer inside
[09:02] <edmoore> then have a quick-release air fitting to fill it
[09:03] <edmoore> which stays permentantly attached to the payload neck computer
[09:03] <jcoxon> so would you have a payload neck computer + standard flight computer on a line
[09:03] <edmoore> yup probably
[09:04] <edmoore> though really the payload neck computer could do everything
[09:04] <edmoore> just have cameras in a box for the standard one
[09:04] <edmoore> oh no sod that
[09:04] <edmoore> you need an upward pointing gps antenna
[09:04] <edmoore> even after burst
[09:04] <jcoxon> got those rfbees still
[09:04] <fsphil> you'd need something to stop the balloon tumbling
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[09:05] <edmoore> well infact you could build an air brake into the neck computer
[09:05] <edmoore> those elastic-but-ridget foldable things like they use for reflectors in outdoor photography
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[09:06] <fsphil> that'd do the job
[09:07] <edmoore> that should bring everything down roughly correctly
[09:07] <edmoore> hopefully
[09:07] <edmoore> but yeah perhaps just jcoxon's suggestion of sensors on an xbee
[09:07] <edmoore> zigbee
[09:07] <edmoore> spelling bee
[09:07] <jcoxon> quite tiny as well
[09:08] <fsphil> you could transfer quite a bit of data at that range
[09:08] <edmoore> we'll need to find quite a sensitive pressure sensor
[09:08] <edmoore> as if the float oscillation is due to it bouncing on thicker air, the pressure variations would be tiny
[09:08] <edmoore> likewise a low range differential pressure sensor
[09:09] <edmoore> for measuring the gradient across the balloon
[09:09] <edmoore> and also... calibrated temp sensors for inside and out
[09:09] <edmoore> hmm
[09:09] <edmoore> i think probably we'd be looking at some of those vacuum equipment Torr sensors
[09:10] <Randomskk> edmoore: did you get the pubkey sorted?
[09:10] <jcoxon> we going to need a custom pcb?
[09:10] <edmoore> Randomskk: now
[09:10] <edmoore> can i email it to you?
[09:10] <Randomskk> sure
[09:10] <edmoore> no*
[09:10] <Randomskk> adam@adamgreig.com
[09:11] <edmoore> actually let me just pm it to you
[09:11] <Randomskk> sure
[09:11] <edmoore> that should end with .local if irc hasn't truncated it
[09:12] <Randomskk> done, try it
[09:14] <eroomde> much better azeez thank you
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[09:14] <eroomde> thanks Randomskk
[09:14] <Randomskk> np
[09:16] <eroomde> this is much nicer
[09:16] <eroomde> fullscreen irssi
[09:16] <eroomde> i'm quite likeing lion. nothing major to sing and dance about, but it's nice
[09:16] <eroomde> the fullscreen stuff makes a tonne of sense on a 11" laptop
[09:16] <eroomde> probably a bit ludicrouns on a 27" screen though
[09:17] <eroomde> i need a better name for my fask demodulator than eroomdecode
[09:17] <eroomde> even though that's funtastic
[09:17] <eroomde> puntastic*
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[09:25] <fsphil> edcode
[09:26] <fsphil> (never let me name things)
[09:29] <fsphil> made any progress with it?
[09:30] <fsphil> I've started tinkering with a modem for doing sstv stuff, without the start and stop bits
[09:36] <fsphil> ooh this would be a close call: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d9c024823b93b9efab70b25effee182fd4e485a5
[09:43] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Aiming for GW8RAK's territory. ;)
[09:43] <fsphil> it's not far -- though on an island
[09:44] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, only a little out, and the landing will be salty...
[09:44] <fsphil> the day after has a lovely safe landing in scotland
[09:45] <fsphil> if this weather keeps up I'm so going to aim for yorkshire :)
[09:49] <rjharrison> bloody grim here fsphil
[09:49] <rjharrison> ping Randomskk
[09:50] <fsphil> really? the sun is shining hre
[09:50] <fsphil> here*
[09:50] <rjharrison> pissing it down here
[09:50] <fsphil> ooch
[09:50] <rjharrison> excuse the french
[09:50] <rjharrison> Slightly fed up 'cos i wanted to mow the grass today
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[09:53] <fsphil> be glad you're not in scotland rjharrison :) http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
[09:59] <LazyLeopard> The rainfall radar is looking a little interesting...
[10:01] <fsphil> it shows nicely why today would be a good launch day here -- I'm on a boundary between two flows
[10:01] <LazyLeopard> I expect that lightning map would be showing some activity up there if there were any detectors...
[10:02] <fsphil> I'm going to setup one here, might cover that far
[10:02] <rjharrison> fsphil i am
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[10:43] <Upu> good day to be a duck in Scotland it seems
[10:45] <fsphil> hehe, and we've all decided to head to the beech here
[10:46] <Randomskk> rjharrison: ping
[10:46] <Randomskk> sorry, back
[10:46] <Randomskk> this weekend's been a bit on and off with being on irc
[10:46] <hibby> loads of lightening here this morning
[10:47] <rjharrison> hey Randomskk, was wondering about kml overlay
[10:48] <rjharrison> can I knick a copy of the hab pred and have a playu
[10:48] <Randomskk> sure, it's on www.github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor or something
[10:48] <Randomskk> https://github.com/jonsowman/cusf-standalone-predictor
[10:48] <Randomskk> you can [Downloads] and get a zip, or git clone it
[10:49] <rjharrison> Sure
[10:55] <Randomskk> give jon or me a shout if you need help setting it up
[10:55] <Randomskk> things to do include running make to compile ./pred, installing python dependencies (mainly pyopendap), making sure the php runs
[10:58] <fsphil> how separated is the predictor code from the web interface?
[10:58] <fsphil> can it run without the web stuff?
[10:59] <DanielRichman> yes, quite easily
[10:59] <Darkside> we use it on projecthorus launches
[10:59] <DanielRichman> if you check out the repo above and ignore all of the PHP you can use the provided python script to download data and run predictions
[10:59] <Darkside> to give us live predictions in oziexplorer
[10:59] <fsphil> cool
[11:00] <fsphil> yea it's for offline predictions I was thinking of
[11:00] <DanielRichman> essentially you have to write a scenario file
[11:00] <fsphil> The tracker via GSM is horrible
[11:00] <DanielRichman> then run predict.py with a tonne of flags
[11:00] <Darkside> fsphil: http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/201-03-13-6Z_9Z-Sondes.jpg
[11:00] <Darkside> the orange line is from the predictor
[11:01] <fsphil> thats exactly the sort of thing I'm thinking off
[11:01] <Darkside> well, we do that with oziexplorer
[11:01] <Darkside> dunno how to get it working in anything else
[11:01] <Darkside> google earth would be cool
[11:02] <fsphil> I'll be using the open-street-map gtk control
[11:02] <Randomskk> hopefully fairly soon habitat will have a thing working where you can run it all locally and get maps, predictions, tracker, and when you do get connectivity you can synchronise the local database with the cloud to see other people's received telem
[11:03] <Darkside> time for me to get up i guess
[11:03] <Darkside> after all, it is midday...
[11:03] <fsphil> meh, it's sunday :p
[11:04] <Darkside> heh
[11:04] <Darkside> i need food
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[11:06] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
[11:08] <fsphil> hihihi
[11:09] <NigelMoby> Hey Phil
[11:10] <fsphil> Randomskk, any instructions on how to build the predictor? nothing in pred_src
[11:10] <NigelMoby> Wonder if picochus lifted off with the warm air, it gone for a swim...lol
[11:10] <NigelMoby> Or*
[11:10] <fsphil> I hope it did :) you have a listen for it?
[11:11] <Randomskk> make?
[11:11] <NigelMoby> I did, nowt on the 790 :(
[11:12] <fsphil> all I can see are some cmake files, but running cmake doesn't do anything
[11:13] <NigelMoby> Autogen?
[11:13] <Randomskk> fsphil: ugh whoever packaged this
[11:13] <Randomskk> okay
[11:13] <Randomskk> mkdir build
[11:13] <Randomskk> cd build
[11:13] <Randomskk> cmake ..
[11:13] <fsphil> ah, have to run cmake outside the directory
[11:13] <Randomskk> make
[11:13] <Randomskk> (build is a subidr of pred_src)
[11:13] <Randomskk> pretty standard for cmake but should really be in the readme
[11:13] <fsphil> that's done it
[11:14] <Randomskk> if you made a readme in pred_src and pushed it to your github I'm sure jon would love to merge that as a full request
[11:14] <fsphil> thanks
[11:14] <Randomskk> np
[11:14] <NigelMoby> Randomskk, you in cam for ATS-1 launch ?
[11:14] <fsphil> will do tonight, heading to the beach soon :)
[11:14] <NigelMoby> Beach? Off bloody rain ere :(
[11:15] <fsphil> raining everywhere but here it seems
[11:15] <NigelMoby> Pff*
[11:15] <fsphil> most unnatural
[11:15] <NigelMoby> Lol very odd
[11:15] <fsphil> rain radar has a few showers around though
[11:15] <fsphil> you've got some lightning nearby NigelMoby
[11:15] <fsphil> just south
[11:16] <NigelMoby> Yey
[11:16] <Randomskk> think so... 20th?
[11:16] <NigelMoby> Yups
[11:17] <Randomskk> yea
[11:17] <Randomskk> coming up with jon
[11:17] <NigelMoby> Ah brill, should be a gd launch.
[11:17] <Randomskk> yup!
[11:17] <Randomskk> bbl
[11:18] <NigelMoby> Kk
[11:20] <NigelMoby> Ping darkside
[11:27] <rjharrison> Randomskk, thanks for the pointers
[11:27] <rjharrison> Will give it a go in 10
[11:37] <NigelMoby> Hey rob
[11:38] <rjharrison> hey NigelMoby congrats on yeasterday
[11:38] <rjharrison> shame about he bugs
[11:38] <rjharrison> hope you can sort it
[11:38] <rjharrison> any ideas
[11:39] <Darkside> Randomskk: you gonna be in the london hackerspae next weekend?
[11:39] <NigelMoby> Well, I looked through the code and nothing seems to be wrong, may have been a bit of moisture
[11:40] <rjharrison> Yep I hate bugs like that
[11:40] <rjharrison> was the PCB protected from the elements at all
[11:40] <NigelMoby> Bubblewrapped
[11:41] <rjharrison> Humm should have been fine then
[11:41] <NigelMoby> And Gaffa tape
[11:41] <rjharrison> Done that myself
[11:42] <NigelMoby> I'll freezer test the next payload, same hardware
[11:43] <NigelMoby> I still think its possible the damaged balloon deflated and blocked the gps for a short time.
[11:43] <rjharrison> Ok that might make some sense
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[11:44] <rjharrison> Can you test to see what happens if your avr gets no data
[11:44] <rjharrison> Ie imitate the issue
[11:44] <Darkside> but blocking the gps wouldn
[11:45] <Darkside> ack
[11:45] <Darkside> blocking the gps wouldn't make it stop sending sentences
[11:45] <NigelMoby> Hmm puzzled then lol
[11:45] <NigelMoby> Actually...
[11:45] <NigelMoby> Yes it wuld
[11:45] <Darkside> no, it wouldn't
[11:45] <Darkside> it would just report no lock
[11:46] <NigelMoby> My code was never written to send data if no lock, its always sent just a carrier even in testing
[11:46] <NigelMoby> It was a feature I wanted to add.
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> On the other hand.
[11:48] <Darkside> its best to send data all the time
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Woul it send data even if the GPS was doing its 'I have no lock' output
[11:48] <Darkside> also, i need to publish the Arduino patch i've written
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> $GPGGA,,,,,
[11:48] <NigelMoby> No..
[11:48] <Darkside> NigelMoby: are you using TinyGPS?
[11:48] <Darkside> as that will always give you something, even if its 0's
[11:49] <NigelMoby> Yup, gimme a min ill show u...
[11:51] <LazyLeopard> So, with multiple foil balloons, it makes sense to ensure a burst balloon can't wrap itself round the payload?
[11:52] <Darkside> given the sensitivity of that gps, i doubt it would loose lock when wrapped in foil
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[11:54] <NigeyS> boo
[11:54] <NigeyS> LazyLeopard, that would make sense yup
[11:56] <NigeyS> Darkside, it seems unlikely, but it would tie in with the "normal" function of the hardware, whenever its been tested, a carrier is all thats emitted until it gets the gps data
[11:57] <NigeyS> if signal gets lost, or i unplugged the gps, then plugged it backk in, the telem counter just carries on from where it left off, which is what it did yesterday
[11:57] <Laurenceb_> NigeyS: recovery?
[11:57] <NigeyS> Laurenceb, its swimming probably
[11:57] <NigeyS> we didnt trek to england to find it
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> I assume there was a number/... on it?
[12:04] <NigeyS> nooo
[12:04] <NigeyS> i am picking something up verrrrrrrrrry faint on the freq though
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[12:11] <NigeyS> Darkside, https://github.com/nigeysuk/Picochu-1/blob/master/Picochu-1.1.1.pde .. lines 104 and 105
[12:12] <Darkside> not sure whats going on there
[12:12] <NigeyS> well, i can tell ya, with that module when its got no lock it doesnt send 0's
[12:12] <NigeyS> just a string of ,,,,,
[12:12] <Darkside> ooh
[12:12] <NigeyS> so the code wont pick it up as data
[12:13] <Darkside> weird
[12:13] <NigeyS> i was meant to add a "no gps" part but couldnt work it out in time
[12:13] <Darkside> get a uBlox :P
[12:13] <NigeyS> haha definately!
[12:13] <Darkside> and run it in polled mode
[12:14] <NigeyS> what about 1 of the new fsa03's or a venus module ?
[12:14] <Darkside> fsa03 is a uBlox
[12:14] <Darkside> but its really best to put that on a custom PCB
[12:14] <NigeyS> ah right
[12:15] <Darkside> dunno about the venus ones
[12:15] <NigeyS> i know theyre slightly fragile
[12:15] <Darkside> i thougt they were limited
[12:15] <Darkside> lol slightly
[12:15] <Darkside> me and shenki killed one
[12:15] <NigeyS> mattltm has been testing a venus with a new firmware that removes the limit
[12:15] <NigeyS> but its not been tested at altitude yet
[12:16] <eroomde> we've flown venuses with the unlimited firmware
[12:16] <eroomde> they work fine
[12:16] <Darkside> cool
[12:16] <Darkside> i still like mah uBlox :P
[12:16] <eroomde> did 3 or 4 flights with them a couple of years ago
[12:16] <NigeyS> oh good, i might fly matts on ats-1 alongside the lassen
[12:16] <eroomde> yeah they're not nearly as good as the uBloxes
[12:16] <eroomde> in terms of dynamics
[12:16] <eroomde> which doesn't really matter for a balloon
[12:16] <eroomde> but for our drop-test stuff it was uBlox or death
[12:17] <Darkside> haha
[12:17] <NigeyS> eroomde, for low alt id say the best ive seen so far is what we used yesterday, the locosys, super sensitive
[12:17] <Darkside> yeah, we found this out at linuxconf this year
[12:17] <Darkside> the rocketry 'pros' used venus chipsets
[12:17] <Darkside> claming that no GPS would maintain lock when a rocket is going up
[12:17] <eroomde> pfff
[12:17] <eroomde> fools
[12:17] <Darkside> yet the uBlox 5 chipset we used kept lock!
[12:17] <NigeyS> lol
[12:17] <Darkside> even if it only got 3 data points on the way up
[12:17] <eroomde> the ubloxs in our drop vehicle worked at >200m/s vertical
[12:18] <eroomde> the datasheet says 100m/s max
[12:18] <Darkside> and this is Bdale Garbee mind you
[12:18] <Darkside> the CTO of HP
[12:18] <Darkside> i thougt he would have realised..
[12:18] <eroomde> oh it was the altimutrusiumtumimentum thing
[12:18] <Darkside> yep
[12:18] <Darkside> Altus Metrum
[12:18] <Darkside> and their Telemetrum board
[12:18] <eroomde> i bet he things 8051 cores are as good as it gets too
[12:18] <eroomde> thinks*
[12:18] <Darkside> prolly
[12:18] <Darkside> thats what they'r eusing, the CC1010101010101010101 chip
[12:19] <eroomde> yes i know
[12:19] <Darkside> though you guys have used them too
[12:19] <eroomde> we used them too
[12:19] <eroomde> hence me not thinking much of them
[12:19] <Darkside> badger cub looks awesome
[12:19] <Darkside> hahaha
[12:19] <eroomde> you can do better in 2011
[12:19] <eroomde> there are more options now
[12:19] <Darkside> yeah i bet
[12:20] <Darkside> i can't wait until i get into proper dev for my remote SDR
[12:20] <Darkside> thats gonna be a beast of an embedded linux system
[12:20] <eroomde> http://www.gazeboshop.co.uk/gazebo_shop/3x3m-Aluminium-Hex-instant-shelter.html#nogo
[12:20] <eroomde> ideal for a mobile hab HQ ^
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: That's gonna need a lot of helium to lift.
[12:20] <eroomde> true that
[12:20] <Darkside> i'm thinking of having a MSP430 or AVR coprocessor, which handles the RTTY transmission stuff
[12:21] <eroomde> with a mobile stove and mobile folding tables, you've a long weekend of hab missions right there
[12:21] <Darkside> eroomde: we've considered this
[12:21] <eroomde> Darkside: yeah something really power optimised would be good
[12:21] <Darkside> doing back to back BAN flights, launching from the landing site of the previous balloon
[12:21] <eroomde> Darkside: I think we are going to get one of these at some point
[12:21] <eroomde> BAN?
[12:21] <Darkside> eroomde: problem is, i wouldn't be able to use a MSP430 or AVR for what i want to do
[12:21] <eroomde> oh i see
[12:21] <eroomde> why not?
[12:21] <Darkside> s/BAN/HAB/
[12:22] <Darkside> eroomde: software defined radio
[12:22] <eroomde> ah ok
[12:22] <eroomde> why not?
[12:22] <Darkside> with signal processing too
[12:22] <Darkside> well, i *could* probably implement what i'm working on for a small micro
[12:22] <Darkside> but i want the system to be flexible
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[12:22] <Darkside> ideallt, i want to be able to send a command via some kind of uplink (HF maybe) and tell it to listen at a certain time, on a certain frequency and bandwidth
[12:23] <Darkside> and then process that data through a certain chain
[12:23] <Darkside> compress the result, and send it back via a downlink
[12:23] <Darkside> being able to handle the different processing chains, etc
[12:23] <Darkside> its going ot be painful
[12:24] <Darkside> my current intention is to use an ARM processor, like whats on the beagleboard
[12:24] <eroomde> oh a really big arm then
[12:24] <Darkside> beagleboard sized would be fine
[12:24] <cuddykid> balloons inflated - ready for the car boot lol
[12:24] <NigeyS> lol good luck cuddykid
[12:24] <cuddykid> thanks NigeyS! Will report back on how successful later!
[12:25] <Darkside> eroomde: ideally, one of these boards will end up on each sat of a cubesat constellation in a few years
[12:25] <Darkside> and i aim to make the RF frontend as versatile as possible
[12:25] <eroomde> Darkside: nice
[12:25] <Darkside> i want to be able to tune from DC to 1GHz
[12:25] <eroomde> using DDS and fast ADCs?
[12:25] <eroomde> wow
[12:25] <Darkside> nah
[12:25] <eroomde> 1.3GHz maybe?
[12:25] <eroomde> L-band
[12:25] <eroomde> that would make amateurs happy :)
[12:25] <Darkside> frontend tuner and probably a 96KHz I2S chip
[12:26] <Darkside> taking in I/Q data
[12:26] <Darkside> i don't need a huge RX bandwidth
[12:27] <eroomde> yeah there are some really impressive downconverters now
[12:27] <Darkside> yeah
[12:27] <Darkside> the one on the funcube dongle would probably be the one i'd use for 55 to 1.7GHz
[12:27] <Darkside> still not sure about HF, might have to make up something of my own
[12:27] <Darkside> and then i need to figure out what antenna i'm gonna use
[12:27] <eroomde> that's proprieatry or pre-release or osmething isn't it?
[12:27] <eroomde> the funcube one
[12:28] <Darkside> nah
[12:28] <Darkside> its available, but yeah, NSA
[12:28] <Darkside> NDA*
[12:28] <Darkside> there was also a company doing something similar for HF, but they dont want to sell me any chips
[12:28] <Darkside> maybe they'll think differently if they find out where the chip will be going
[12:28] <Darkside> but yeah
[12:29] <Darkside> i would LOVE to be able to send an uplink message telling the sat to switch to, say, 434.650MHz while over, say, the UK at a certain time
[12:29] <Darkside> feed the RX data through a RTTY detection and demodulation chain
[12:29] <Darkside> and downlink the data
[12:29] <Darkside> >_>
[12:29] <eroomde> nice
[12:29] <eroomde> yep
[12:30] <Darkside> it would be one of the most kickass cubesat projects out there
[12:30] <Darkside> the main purpose of it would be to study the ionosphere, but man, oh man
[12:30] <Darkside> it could be made INCREDIBLY versatile
[12:30] <eroomde> yeah
[12:31] <Darkside> and it would make one hell of a PhD thesis
[12:31] <eroomde> may aswell put useful data on the ionopheric signals
[12:31] <Darkside> A remote SDR platform for radio propagation research
[12:32] <Darkside> well, the idea was to monitor DRM stations as we pass over them
[12:32] <Darkside> as we can extract channel information, and TEC data from those signals
[12:32] <Darkside> and the effect will be the greatest with a vertical bath
[12:41] <eroomde> ?
[12:41] <eroomde> vertical bath?
[12:41] <Darkside> path*
[12:43] <daveake> Shower
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> you could use cc1020
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> but id suggest a SAW filter in there somethere
[12:47] <Laurenceb_> ant -> lna -> SAW -> cc1020 maybe
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> then an avr or stm32 or whatever
[12:48] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: nah
[12:48] <Darkside> needs to be massively broadband
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly you couldnt dma the data out with stm32
[12:48] <Darkside> and i need more bandwidth than the cc1020 can provide
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> why?
[12:48] <Darkside> well, i'd like >100KHZ od bandwidth to play with
[12:48] <Laurenceb_> oh for ionospheric
[12:49] <Darkside> DRM is 10-20KHz
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> cc1020 can handle about 100
[12:49] <Darkside> yeah but the wrong frequency range
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> oh
[12:49] <Darkside> i want to be able to tune from DC to >1GHz
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> i see
[12:49] <Darkside> and i can probably do it with 2 tuner chips
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[12:50] <Darkside> the one from the funcube dongle, and something else for HF
[12:50] <Darkside> ideally they would operate on separate interfaces, so i can record from both at the same time
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> i havent looked at the msp430 chipcons
[12:50] <Laurenceb_> it could be you could do SDR on a single ic for 434mhz
[12:52] <Laurenceb_> theyd be good for an n-prize sat
[12:52] Action: Laurenceb_ runs from edmoore
[12:53] <Darkside> n-prize sat?
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> http://www.n-prize.com/
[12:57] <Darkside> how the fuck
[12:58] <Darkside> as if
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> It's not completely insane.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> It's possible.
[12:58] <Darkside> but for less than 1000 pounds?
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> But costs ridiculous amounts of time/money to setup
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> For example, carbon fibre and epoxy are quite cheap.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> But the amount of time, effort, and machinery you use to wind them into a rocket does not count against the 1000 pounds.
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> it could be done for £500
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> the tricky bit is doing it
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> juno1 is a good read
[13:06] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: link?
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[13:13] <Laurenceb_> hmm theres a pdf somewhere...
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CB8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fspacetheworld.com%2Farticles%2Fspaceflight%2FJuno_2005_juli_sep_PA16_webb.pdf&rct=j&q=juno%20rocket%20filetype%3Apdf&ei=tY8-Tq3LEo6YhQeBzZmAAg&usg=AFQjCNGvAFuUpNhV4g4Vb0st8b93JyXJog&cad=rja
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> thats good, but not what i was thinking of
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> good view of the spin up system of the top
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[13:16] <Laurenceb_> my n-prize idea was to swap to giant first stage for a balloon
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> theres another pdf somewhere with a proper breakdown of delta v from the different stages and how they found apogee from doppler etc
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> the first stage pops up and uses compressed air jets to manover horizontally, then fires the spup upper stages just before apogee
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> they used a single ground station and a accel mounted along the axis of the first stage, together with a clever fitting algorythm on an analogue computer to automatically first
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> s/first/fire
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> Old stuff is great to rip off.
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes it can be so easy with todays tech
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> yeah, they used the technique as there wasnt the ground station and communication network in place
[13:29] <Laurenceb_> but its easy for amateurs to use the same technique now
[13:32] Action: Laurenceb_ grumbles about latex
[13:33] <Laurenceb_> trying to line postscript graphics up
[13:33] <Laurenceb_> can anyone help me?
[13:37] <Laurenceb_> my graphics keep rotating through 90 degrees :S
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> maybe i should examine the postscipt in inkscape
[13:46] <Laurenceb_> hmm fixed.. seems gnuplot chucked out a corrupted eps
[13:59] <rjharrison> eroomde did you part with cash at apple?
[14:00] <rjharrison> afk
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[14:28] <Darkside> haha
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[14:52] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
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[14:59] Nick change: Nige|S -> NigeyS
[15:14] <Darkside> http://pastebin.com/d2hbxsmE <-- why Arduino should have a setCallback function
[15:14] <Darkside> soooo damn useful
[15:17] <DanielRichman> just disable the arduino library's ISR and use your own
[15:18] <Darkside> yeah, i wrote a setCallback functio to do just that
[15:18] <Darkside> http://code.google.com/p/invert-topcat/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2FCode%2Frequired_libs%2Freplacement_arduino_hardwareserial
[15:18] <Darkside> all there
[15:18] <eroomde> rjharrison: yes
[15:18] <eroomde> i did
[15:18] <eroomde> quite happy to have done so - this thing is great!
[15:19] <hibby> whatcha get?
[15:19] <eroomde> macbook air 11
[15:19] <hibby> :)
[15:19] <hibby> shinyshiny
[15:19] <eroomde> very
[15:19] <eroomde> it's wonderful
[15:20] <hibby> you'll be doing the logical thing and installing linux on it by friday, I assume
[15:20] <eroomde> the best accompaniment to my meaty linux box i can think of
[15:20] <hibby> :p
[15:20] <eroomde> lol, well it's really a thinclient for the linux box
[15:20] <eroomde> + photohop, aperture, keynote
[15:20] <hibby> lol
[15:20] <hibby> nice
[15:20] <hibby> right
[15:21] <hibby> im going for a siesta... was awoken at 430 this morning by a storm
[15:21] <hibby> not slept since
[15:21] <hibby> nn all ;)
[15:21] <eroomde> we are getting rumbles here in oxfordshire
[15:21] <eroomde> it's coming
[15:21] <eroomde> bbc predicts hail storms
[15:21] <eroomde> i'm in a conservatory
[15:21] <eroomde> woot noisy
[15:21] <Darkside> its just... raining here
[15:21] <Darkside> rainnnn
[15:21] <Darkside> no thunder
[15:23] <eroomde> yes
[15:23] <eroomde> you're near wales
[15:23] <number10> NigeyS: did you put an address label on Picochu in case is found
[15:23] <eroomde> that's all that happens in wales
[15:23] <Darkside> lol
[15:23] <eroomde> and by extension, places inside wales' gravity
[15:24] <NigeyS> number10, nope
[15:25] <number10> :(
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[15:30] <cuddykid> back from car boot - was a rubbish one due to weather - didn't sell any balloons! almost sold one but then the child said no :(
[15:30] <cuddykid> lol
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[15:32] <cuddykid> now tying notes to each one - with my spam email on - seeing how far they will go!
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[15:33] <cuddykid> unless anyone can think of anything better to do with them?!?
[15:39] <rjharrison> lol
[15:40] <rjharrison> sounds a fun day out
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[15:42] <cuddykid> managed to sell some other bits - never realised how weird some of the people that go to these things are!!
[15:42] <rjharrison> lol like cable ties etc ..
[15:43] <cuddykid> haha, some old clothes!
[15:49] <s-taylo> The missus had been pestering for years to be taken to the local car boot sale, finally went a couple of weekends ago and don't think the topic will ever come up again. Weird doesn't begin to describe it :)
[15:54] <cuddykid> lol s-taylo!! completely understand!
[15:55] <daveake> We've got rid of some stuff at a couple of car boot sales. No matter how crap you think your stuff is, there are people there selling stuff 10 times crappier
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[15:58] <cuddykid> haha yeah!
[16:01] <cuddykid> finally sun is out so can do some solar panel testing
[16:02] <cuddykid> getting about 40mA out
[16:03] <cuddykid> when working out power (P=(I^2)R) do I use the load R + sense R as the resistance value?
[16:06] <Hiena> Yup.
[16:06] <cuddykid> thanks :)
[16:07] <Hiena> And do not forget if you calculate a whole system Power, you should calculate all losses, including the internal ones too.
[16:07] <cuddykid> getting about 0.25W out of them
[16:07] <cuddykid> ahh right, thanks
[16:09] <cuddykid> Hiena: to measure internal R of solar panel - should I just connect up multimeter to it and measure R?
[16:09] <daveake> no
[16:09] <Hiena> Also, the rule of the rhumb is the resistors nominal power rating calculated at ambient temperature and 70C degreee surface temp.
[16:09] <daveake> Change the load resistance (up or down) a bit, and measure the new Vout.
[16:09] <daveake> Then it's some simple maths ;)
[16:10] <cuddykid> :)
[16:11] <Hiena> Nope. Connect a known resistor as load and measure the output voltage and current, and measure the output without load. The panel resistance will be R=(Unoload-Uload)/Iload
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[16:12] <Hiena> Use a load resistor which is closely match to the pane resistance or at least 100 times smaller as the internal resistance of your voltmeter.
[16:13] <Darkside> hmm
[16:14] <Darkside> what was that ofcom online license map thing?
[16:14] <Darkside> i think fsphil linked it to me a while back
[16:19] <cuddykid> wow - incredible how power varies so much with just what appears to the eye as slight change in brightness
[16:26] <cuddykid> just done a quick calc - getting about 13% efficiency out of the cells
[16:33] <cuddykid> so, in flight should log - power output & efficiency :)
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[17:04] <Zuph> Happy Sunday, all.
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[17:15] <cuddykid> you too Zuph
[17:19] <NigeyS> hey Zuph
[17:25] <NigeyS> hm onewire is annoying me
[17:32] <Zuph> How's it going NigeyS ?
[17:32] <NigeyS> not bad dude, you ?
[17:35] <Zuph> Not bad at all, not bad at all
[17:36] <NigeyS> :D
[17:43] <NigeyS> $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,,,,,,,*66
[17:43] <NigeyS>
[17:43] <NigeyS> $GPVTG,,,,,,,,,N*30
[17:43] <NigeyS>
[17:43] <NigeyS> hmmz think the lassen has died
[17:59] <cuddykid> NigeyS: my lassen has v bad reception - stick some foil under it :)
[17:59] <NigeyS> yup done that, its got 1 sat in 2 hours :@
[17:59] <cuddykid> ooo :S
[18:01] jcoxon (~jcoxon@92.40.253.251.threembb.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] <jcoxon> afternoon
[18:03] <NigeyS> hey james
[18:11] <jcoxon> NigeyS, picochu?
[18:12] <NigeyS> swimming i think lol
[18:12] <jcoxon> oh dears
[18:12] <jcoxon> it could take off again
[18:12] <NigeyS> i did have a listen, i thought i heard a carrier but probably local
[18:14] <eroomde> difficult to tell too
[18:14] <eroomde> all those times standing waving a yagi into a field quite sure that you can hear something in the noise
[18:16] <NigeyS> yups, its really faint, soeven if it was the payload theres no chance of decoding
[18:17] <jcoxon> the reason i say yhta tis when i recovered picoatlas1 it was floating in a barn
[18:19] <NigeyS> oh yeah
[18:19] <NigeyS> hm
[18:26] <jcoxon> however i suspec that the loss of the one balloon will be too much
[18:28] <NigeyS> hmm not sure
[18:28] <NigeyS> we maybe able to cope with 1 balloon burst, but if 2 burst its not going anywhere
[18:29] <NigeyS> if anything the batteries will be very low by now
[18:29] <jcoxon> the thing is that i doubt 2 burst
[18:30] <jcoxon> as if one burst it'll start to descend - relieving the pressure on the others
[18:31] <NigeyS> thats true, meh, guess we'll never know
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: the above ,,, is from the payload transmitter?
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> ^unrecovered
[18:53] <NigeyS> ah no, thats the gps module for ats-1 the lasen
[18:53] <NigeyS> lassen*
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> I see
[18:57] <NigeyS> its working now, 3 hours to get a lock :|
[18:57] <jcoxon> good old lassen
[18:57] <NigeyS> lol yup
[18:57] <NigeyS> slow to get there but get there it does
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[19:03] <Hiena> NigeyS: how it's antenna connection?
[19:03] <NigeyS> antennas fine, it just hates me lol
[19:03] <Hiena> Is it use the plastic dome type with a screw?
[19:04] <NigeyS> evening RocketBoy
[19:04] <NigeyS> no, its the ceramic patch antenna ... hfl connection
[19:04] <RocketBoy> Yo NigeyS: any more news on the flight yesterday
[19:05] <Hiena> How is the signal quality?
[19:05] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, other than an updated max altitude, nope hehe ..
[19:05] <NigeyS> Hiena, probably crap
[19:05] <NigeyS> lassen is just not to sensitive
[19:06] <NigeyS> gps i used yesterday in the same room here had 8 sats locked in under a minute
[19:08] <Hiena> Well, I had some bad experience with the ceramic antennas. After a few years they tend to gather the moisture and drop the signal. Slowly warming up up to 80 degree and hold 2 day long at that temperature usually helps.
[19:09] <NigeyS> ahh nasty :/
[19:09] <fsphil> woo-- back from the beach -- epic summer weather, didn't expect that
[19:10] <eroomde> i can see on raintoday.co.uk some serious orange rumbling our way
[19:11] <fsphil> yes -- I could see that big cloud that was covering scotland earlier from the beach
[19:15] <Hiena> There is some profits repairing russian microelectronics...
[19:15] <eroomde> Randomskk: ping
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[19:40] <Laurenceb_> is there a 'higher' catagory that \section in latex?
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> *category
[19:40] <Darkside> depends on if its an article or a report i think
[19:40] <Darkside> i think theres a \chapter
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> oh i see
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> yeah all my sections are 0.x
[19:40] <eroomde> yes i beleive there is only \chaper
[19:40] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[19:47] <Hiena> Hmmm. Good to know, with the iron on high set, possible to fuse the white masking tape permamently to almost anything.
[19:48] <Darkside> lol
[19:48] <Darkside> what did you accidentally fuse masking tape to?
[19:49] <Hiena> Boxes. I'm out of the duct tape, but the masking tape drops from the box, so ironed it.
[19:50] <Randomskk> eroomde: pong
[19:51] <eroomde> Randomskk: just wondering if you were still keen for some hacking tomorrow
[19:51] <Randomskk> yea definitely
[19:51] <eroomde> cool
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> i didnt realise you were members of lulzsec
[19:52] Action: Randomskk is actually topiary
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> or maybe you are axe murderers
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> guess it all depends what you hack with what
[19:53] <Randomskk> maybe both
[19:54] <eroomde> horse riding?
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> you could be hacking the topiary in your garden with an axe for example
[19:55] <Randomskk> horse riding is pretty great
[19:55] <Randomskk> it's been a while since I was out for a hack
[19:55] <Hiena> Nah, noboby use axes in these days.
[19:55] <Randomskk> ugh, solarized is lovely but it has broken my irssi nickcolor script
[19:55] <eroomde> man, chai tea is like ritalin
[19:56] <eroomde> i can just devour contenration-requiring tasks when i'm on it
[19:57] <eroomde> Randomskk: I don't get the solarized love
[19:57] <Randomskk> I have only just tried it really (haven't really been on computers all weekend) so still kinda trying it
[19:57] <Randomskk> haven't programmed any yet
[19:57] <Randomskk> but it seems nice so far? if more effort to set up on terminals
[19:59] <eroomde> i have some serious wombat love for python
[19:59] <eroomde> it just looks right
[19:59] <Randomskk> will have to try it
[20:00] <Randomskk> zenburn was nice
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[20:00] <Randomskk> grumble grumble nickcolor
[20:01] <Randomskk> bbl, dinner
[20:01] <kristianpaul> Where i can get a updated list of PRN Keys by GPS satellite?
[20:02] Action: kristianpaul looks at SpeedEvil and Laurenceb_
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> ebay.
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> Dunno, actually.
[20:03] <kristianpaul> what? i have to pay¡¡¡¡¡???
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> What do you mean by updated?
[20:03] <kristianpaul> ah
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> Ebay is my usual answer to any physical object.
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> Surprisingly often accurate.
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> ftp://tycho.usno.navy.mil/pub/gps/gpstd.txt
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> I'd wander round the GPS operators site - NOAA?
[20:04] <kristianpaul> but PRN Key is not actually something physical..
[20:04] Action: SpeedEvil is feeling crap today, for no good reason.
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> I spent most of today thinking it was monday.
[20:05] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: I did that too
[20:05] <eroomde> had a wonderful realisation at 7.05
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> OTOH - I have now posted the outstanding CD I have to send to someone, so I don't have to go out tomorrow if I'm still feeling crap.
[20:11] <kristianpaul> but Laurenceb_ how can make relation to the PRN Key value per satellite from that lunch list?
[20:11] <kristianpaul> launch****
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> isnt it the second column?
[20:12] <fsphil> mmm lunch list, reminds me
[20:12] <Laurenceb_> first is satellite number, then its the allocated prn
[20:12] <kristianpaul> humm
[20:13] <kristianpaul> oh, yes well, i tought was the same at first
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[20:29] <eroomde> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/05/lohan_balloon_challenge/
[20:29] <eroomde> jesus
[20:29] <eroomde> a 7m boom
[20:30] <eroomde> plot = lost
[20:30] <jcoxon> NigeyS, done that report yet?
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> haha
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> they even have a counterweight
[20:33] <NigeyS> jcoxon, almost done
[20:38] <jcoxon> excellent
[20:39] <NigeyS> :D got side tracked fiddling with the ats-1 payload box hehe
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> eroode: i dont really follow what they plan to do
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> i think their first step should be to draw up a plan of what they are attempting, with some goals
[20:41] <RocketBoy> and work out who is going to allow them to do it in their airspace
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> reach ascend 10km/ reach 100km or something
[20:42] <eroomde> RocketBoy: and that
[20:42] <eroomde> they seem to be keen for spain again
[20:42] <RocketBoy> perhaps the spanish don't care
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> if they said they wanted to launch a rockoon to 100km legally and didnt come out with so much insane stuff they might be credible
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> maybe i should suggest teaming up with ARCA to them
[20:43] <Darkside> heh
[20:43] <Darkside> oh thats a point
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> *trollface*
[20:44] <Darkside> is tehre anyway i can have a payload that maintains a stable attitude
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> oh dont you start with that
[20:44] <Darkside> >_>
[20:44] <Darkside> its just got GPS measurements
[20:44] <Darkside> for*
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> ok
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_rocket_fallacy
[20:45] <Darkside> basically i want to use a vertical dipole antenna, with the radiation pattern ideally pointed at the horizon
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> hmm reaction wheels?
[20:46] <Darkside> other option is to use an antenna with a very broad radiation pattern
[20:46] <Darkside> mm
[20:46] <Darkside> maybe
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> yes a little easier
[20:47] <Darkside> the issue is that the frequency of oscillation, as seen in the videos weve taken, are really close to the frequency of GPS scintillation caused by the ionosphere
[20:48] <Darkside> other option is to have very accurate measurements of the payloads position
[20:48] <Darkside> but that would be very difficult too
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> this problem sounds scintillating
[20:49] <Darkside> die.
[20:50] <Darkside> >_>
[20:50] <Darkside> i'd better get ready for bed
[20:52] <Darkside> got lots of code debugging to do tomorrow
[20:52] <eroomde> have some chai tea
[20:52] <eroomde> with the debugging
[20:53] <eroomde> seriously it's like modafinil
[20:53] <Darkside> lol
[20:53] <Darkside> why chai tea?
[20:53] <Darkside> and i need to try modafinil at some point
[20:53] <Darkside> i've heard its good
[20:54] <eroomde> dunno, just seems to work for me]
[20:54] <Darkside> heh
[20:54] <eroomde> modafinil is good for cramming revision
[20:54] <Darkside> but i thought it was prescription only
[20:54] <eroomde> to the point that at cambridge it was called modafivision
[20:54] <eroomde> internet
[20:54] <Darkside> >_>
[20:55] <Darkside> i think its harder to get in australia
[20:55] <eroomde> but it's not super great in general. tea seems to let you be a bit more creative and lucid
[20:55] <eroomde> but still mindful and aware
[20:55] <Darkside> and i'm not going to try and import any
[20:55] <eroomde> probably a less strict penalty that if you tried to import a moth or a weavil or something
[20:56] <Darkside> lol
[20:56] <Darkside> into australia, yeah :P
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> druggies
[20:56] <Darkside> import drugs: couple hundred $ fine
[20:56] <Darkside> import beetle: DEATH
[20:56] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: i saw your oxford webpage
[20:56] <eroomde> there was no way that wasn't created without LSD
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[20:57] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:57] <LazyLeopard> Darkside: ...by gamma rays...
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[21:01] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: what was the url to your old oxford site, do you recall?
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> im too ashamed to link it
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> ok here you go
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~space/meetings.html
[21:03] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: it'll have gone now probably
[21:03] <eroomde> but go on, link to it :)
[21:05] <fsphil> seen worse :)
[21:06] <eroomde> it's not that one fsphil
[21:06] <eroomde> you'll see what i mean about the acid influence
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> wait my personal site?
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> how did you find that?!"
[21:08] <eroomde> it was around, back in the day
[21:08] <eroomde> i think you put some hab stuff on it
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> i sont think its still online, but that was a pisstake
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> had links to bariumblues.com and stuff :D
[21:09] <eroomde> what was the url?
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> http://www.bariumblues.com/
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> users.ox.ac.uk/~shug2080
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> not there
[21:10] <eroomde> damn
[21:10] <eroomde> that was a wonder
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> lol @ the black line
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> i did the graphic in povray
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> *graphics
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> the cat with a trombone and stuff
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[21:12] <eroomde> oh well
[21:12] <eroomde> right, night all
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[21:17] <number10> edmoore - why are you backwards tonight
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[21:22] <fsphil> I keep thinking it looks like a german dating website .. eroom.de
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[21:41] <NigeyS> jcoxon, hope ya dont mind alot of reading, this reports kinda long..lol
[21:44] <Darkside> lol
[21:44] <Darkside> got a link yet?
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[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[21:48] <NigeyS> Darkside, almost, just finishing the tracking section :p
[21:48] <NigeyS> hey kev
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> hey
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:52] <NigeyS> very good, just writing a report for picochu so bbs :)
[21:52] <Darkside> mmm sleep time for me
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:53] <Darkside> nn
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> gn8
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
[21:57] <NigeyS> nn Darkside
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS did I tell you that I got a box of electronics?
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> with a Venus GPS
[22:03] Nick change: GeekShadow -> testtest
[22:03] Nick change: testtest -> GeekShad0w
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[22:09] <NigeyS> Lunar_Lander, great :D
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:14] <hibby> and it's storm #2 of today. great.
[22:15] <hibby> got woken by a lightning strike in the car park this morning
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> Boom Boom.
[22:16] <hibby> lol
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> How far away?
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[22:23] <hibby> not vastly
[22:27] <NigeyS> http://www.nigey.co.uk/?p=6
[22:27] <NigeyS> happy readin gpeeps :)
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[22:28] <hibby> :)
[22:28] <NigeyS> btw its late, and im tired, ill correct the por gramma when ive had sleep!
[22:28] <NigeyS> poor*
[22:28] <NigeyS> fs
[22:29] <hibby> What's the point of a superpressure balloon?
[22:29] <hibby> That sounds rude, but you get the idea
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> It stabilises.
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> The overpressure in the envelope increases the effective density.
[22:32] <NigeyS> hibby, thats quite a complicated question!
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> So the ballon envelope has a constant density
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> So it just floats on the atmosphere.
[22:33] <hibby> aha
[22:33] <hibby> and the foil balloon doesn't deform to keep a constant volume..?
[22:33] <RocketBoy> nights
[22:33] <NigeyS> trying to do it .. is bloody hard
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> Exactly.
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[22:34] <hibby> does it become easier with altitude?
[22:34] <NigeyS> the main point of picochu was to get an altitude where they burst at 100% full
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> If it's fully inflated.
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> And rigid
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> In practice, that sort of balloon is not rigid - quite
[22:34] Action: SpeedEvil looks at router sync light flashing.
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> hibby: Somewhat.
[22:36] <NigeyS> picochu-2 will be in september, hopefully with some extra sensors on board to get some good pressure measurements, and balloon envelope temperature
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[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> the thing is
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> as I get it
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> He pressure measurements
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> the germans at Lake Constance were the first to do it this year
[22:42] <hibby> balloon internal pressure?
[22:44] <hibby> They censored ass on shrek, that bit where it has the donkey/backside double meaning
[22:44] <hibby> jesus, America, sort it out.
[22:46] <NigeyS> hibby, yup, i think i can get a sensor INSIDE the balloon without knackering the valve
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> yes hibby that I meant
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[22:52] <hibby> wireless sensor?
[22:59] <NigeyS> think it'll have to be
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[00:00] --- Mon Aug 8 2011