highaltitude.log.20110804

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[00:12] <W0OTM> Howdy
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[01:51] <SpeedEvil> Who was playing with LED lights.
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[06:31] <hibby> comment on a my little pony video:
[06:31] <hibby> I just happened to stumble across somepony who has every single episode in HD, all in order. With nearly a million channel views I'm sure some of you have most likely come across it, but I figured I'd share anyways.
[06:31] <hibby> nope, wrong paste in
[06:31] <hibby> thumbs up if you a male 12-35 years old watching thisÿ
[06:31] <hibby> there are a few hundred thumbs up.
[06:44] <Elwell> hibby: err no ta
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[07:02] <fsphil> woo, scheduled recordings worked
[07:03] <fsphil> signal is a bit weak on the colinear though
[07:04] <GW8RAK> Morning, is that for Arissat?
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[07:14] <fsphil> yep
[07:14] <fsphil> hearing the sstv images but it's showing mostly static
[07:15] <GW8RAK> Heard it quite well at the start of the 0607UTC pass, but lots of nulls. SSTV was strong for a while, but didn't have pc on.
[07:15] <GW8RAK> Bloody shame about the 70cm aerial
[07:15] <GW8RAK> or as NASA put it, "sub optimal"
[07:15] <fsphil> yea- though there is reports of the repeater working
[07:16] <GW8RAK> Less than perfect is okay, but "someone cocked up" is not okay
[07:19] <fsphil> guess it's doing that thing where the 817 hears the ntx2 even without the antenna
[07:19] <fsphil> just needs a bit more power on the uplink
[07:22] <GW8RAK> So may not be a problem. Just as well the 70cm is the uplink
[07:23] <fsphil> yea!
[07:23] <fsphil> I think next time they'll need a better way to deploy these satellites from the iss
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[07:26] <GW8RAK> No doubt at some time, they'll be looking around iss and will find an aerial and they'll be wondering where it came from.
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[07:34] <fsphil> it's left me with the impression that the iss isn't very well managed
[07:34] <fsphil> or organised
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[07:51] <Darkside> fsphil: ooh so you got dta?
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[07:55] <fsphil> Darkside, yea the scheduled recordings seemed to work - I haven't checked the fcd recordings yet, just the ft817
[07:57] <Darkside> ok
[08:02] <fsphil> there's regular fading, not sure if it's nulls on my antenna or the satellite is spinning
[08:03] <GW8RAK> Setellite spinning
[08:03] <GW8RAK> or even the satellite
[08:04] <Darkside> maybe i'll have better luck with my cross-dipole
[08:04] <Darkside> ill try and get that setup tosay
[08:04] <Darkside> today*
[08:05] <GW8RAK> This might be the motivation for me to get my cross dipole up
[08:06] <GW8RAK> Really want to try one with circular polarisation
[08:08] <GW8RAK> But if successful, I'll then need one for 70cm
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[08:22] <edmoore> morning all
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[09:05] <fsphil> morning edmoore
[09:05] <edmoore> morning fsphil
[09:05] <fsphil> Darkside, funcube dongle just barely received it
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[09:48] <GW8RAK> fsphil, just reading that someone got into the Arissat transponder on a watt of uplink. Must be quite sensitive then.
[09:50] <GW8RAK> Although that is with a 16dBdc aerial
[09:52] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/04/smartcard_hacking_tools/
[09:53] <Laurenceb> ^interesting
[09:53] <Laurenceb> i cant believe it works that well
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[10:11] <GW8RAK> Are they saying Laurenceb that they can deduce software from the physical layout?
[10:11] <Laurenceb> no, they can get a netlist from photos of de-encapsulated ic aiui
[10:11] <Darkside> GW8RAK: some of it would be ASIC based
[10:11] <Darkside> and a lot of the security would be doe in logic
[10:12] <GW8RAK> Can't understand how they can get through software security though
[10:12] Action: fsphil unsubscribes from the amsat mailing list .. and feels a weight lift from his shoulders :)
[10:13] <Darkside> what was on the list?
[10:13] <Darkside> lots of complaiming about the deploy,ent
[10:13] <fsphil> basically
[10:13] <fsphil> it's the grumpiest list I've ever been on
[10:14] <GW8RAK> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/17/infineon_tpm_crack/ has more on how the chip was hacked.
[10:14] <edmoore> fsphil: yes there are a lot of grumps and whingers on there
[10:14] <GW8RAK> Which list is that fsphil? But I would imagine that AMSAT is a bit upset
[10:14] <GW8RAK> Just read amsat one.
[10:14] <edmoore> very poor signal to noise ratio, lots of self-entitled old fat men
[10:15] <fsphil> amsat-bb
[10:15] <GW8RAK> Have a web address for that? I've never found a direct link to go to it.
[10:16] <GW8RAK> That should be have you got a web address for that?
[10:18] <edmoore> it was a bit like that at the amsat colloqium
[10:18] <edmoore> lots of excellent people
[10:18] <edmoore> really talented engineers
[10:18] <GW8RAK> Found it. It's called a mailing list, not a forum. But over complicated reading the instructions
[10:19] <fsphil> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[10:19] <edmoore> and a bunch of fairly impotently people beating the table about how they don't have a high earth orbit sat to play with for their £5/year subscription
[10:19] <fsphil> yea
[10:20] <fsphil> that's a good summary of this list :)
[10:20] <edmoore> the grumps rather drowned everything out
[10:20] <GW8RAK> Thanks fsphil
[10:20] <edmoore> i saw what a full time job it was keeping ao-51 happy as drew showed us what he usually has to do to keep it running
[10:21] <NigelMoby> Morning
[10:21] <fsphil> yea, I'm amazed they keep ao-51 running at all
[10:21] <fsphil> some really neat hacks involved I suspect
[10:21] <edmoore> but it was pretty cool sitting in the back of a van with an az/el on the roof and uploading commands to your homemade sattelite
[10:21] <Elwell> the funcube list was full of moaners about the antenna last night too
[10:21] <fsphil> it is
[10:22] <fsphil> though a gentle reminder seems to have settled them down :)
[10:22] <edmoore> yep. i had a bit of a nerdgasm
[10:22] <GW8RAK> I think that if all had gone to plan, someone would have said it was a wasted opportunity to do XYZ
[10:22] <edmoore> they always do
[10:23] <fsphil> the slightly-deaf receiver just makes it more of an interesting challange :)
[10:23] <edmoore> especially the high earth orbit lot. no one should be working on anything unless it's HEO
[10:24] <edmoore> although i agree it would be spectacularly awesome
[10:24] <fsphil> very
[10:24] <GW8RAK> AO-40 (?) was quite impressive, but didn't last very long.
[10:24] <edmoore> yeah
[10:25] <edmoore> the one that blew up is what's stalled everything
[10:25] <edmoore> eagle
[10:25] <Elwell> anyone been following the sail thingy?
[10:25] <edmoore> seems like amsat us and amsat-dl don't talk so much anymore
[10:26] <edmoore> i was very impressed that amsat-dl managed to do earth-venus-earth bounces
[10:28] <GW8RAK> That is one of those things that I like to think of as "clever". Finding that the alignment is such that it is possible.
[10:29] <fsphil> there's a few videos on youtube of people doing EME SSTV
[10:29] <fsphil> think that's amazing
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[11:33] <cuddykid> hi all
[11:34] <cuddykid> quick question - I need to 1/2 the voltage received from these solar panels so using a pot divider. Do the values of resistors matter? For example - any reason to use 2x 10ohm rather than 2x 1kohm
[11:35] <M0JSN> cuddykid: what are you doing with the output of the potential divider?
[11:35] <M0JSN> is it driving a high impedance load, like an ADC?
[11:35] <edmoore> if it's just to measure voltage, fine
[11:35] <edmoore> go high
[11:36] <edmoore> if you need actual current to drive things, you're doing it wrong :)
[11:36] <M0JSN> indeed
[11:37] <cuddykid> what I'm trying to do is use the arduino to measure volt & current and then log them
[11:37] <edmoore> then a potential divider is fine (for measurement)
[11:37] <cuddykid> but arduino only measures voltage in 0 to 5v range & output can be up to 8v
[11:37] <M0JSN> use at least 1K, 10K would be better
[11:37] <edmoore> higher R means less current lost
[11:37] <cuddykid> ahh great, but would it affect the current values then?
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[11:38] <M0JSN> how are you intending to measure current?
[11:38] <cuddykid> pd across resistor
[11:38] <cuddykid> then v=ir
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[11:39] <M0JSN> you are effectively loading the panels with that resistive load, so yes, a larger resistance will reduce current
[11:40] <M0JSN> but remember some current also flows into the ADC input
[11:41] <cuddykid> hmm, guess this is going to be quite hard to do!
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[11:42] <M0JSN> so you want to measure current and voltage from the panels?
[11:42] <cuddykid> yeah
[11:42] <M0JSN> the panels don't have any inbuilt regulator etc?
[11:42] <cuddykid> no
[11:43] <M0JSN> so the panel output power is going to be constant, for a given luminance and efficiency
[11:44] <cuddykid> think so!
[11:45] <M0JSN> so would it suffice to measure power?
[11:45] <M0JSN> do you have to know voltage/current seperately? as they are inherently changed by your load design
[11:45] <cuddykid> I suppose, I could just measure power
[11:48] <M0JSN> i think that would perhaps be a more useful measure
[11:49] <edmoore> re: current flowing into adc input
[11:49] <edmoore> use a buffer amplifer
[11:49] <edmoore> that will have infinite imput impedance
[11:51] <M0JSN> i'm not sure what the adc input impedance is like, but yes, buffer amp is a good plan
[11:51] <M0JSN> at least 1MR apparently
[11:52] <M0JSN> for an avr
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[11:58] <edmoore> the rule of thumb is that if the current flow through the gap of a potential divider is <1/10th the current flow through it, you're fine
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[12:05] <fsphil> I do get asked some silly questions here. "My attachment got removed by the anti-virus filter.. can you let it through for me" .. um .. no
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[12:11] <cuddykid> hmm, reading voltage on analogue pins&. fluctuates wildly - somethings not right
[12:12] <edmoore> cuddykid: what sort of sawings?
[12:12] <edmoore> swings*
[12:12] <edmoore> amplitude-wise
[12:12] <cuddykid> like from maximum (in the 1000s) to 0 to mid range lol
[12:13] <cuddykid> if it's unplugged a reading of about 250 is constant
[12:13] <edmoore> sounds like its floating
[12:13] <edmoore> it's*
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[12:18] <cuddykid> how would I make it stop fluctuating?!
[12:19] <cuddykid> it doesn't make any sense as when I put my hand over the solar panel it's still reading high voltages :S
[12:20] <cuddykid> ooo.. I've stabilised it :)
[12:21] <cuddykid> wooo :D
[12:22] <cuddykid> been thinking.. as I've got 2 identical panels, I could measure v from one and current from other
[12:22] <daveake> fsphil - best question I ever got asked was "While you've got remote control of my PC, can you fix the keyboard for me please? One of the keys is stuck" ....
[12:24] <fsphil> wow
[12:24] <number10> lol
[12:24] <fsphil> that makes me feel better
[12:24] <daveake> :)
[12:25] <daveake> Beats the "my mouse is wrong - every time I move it up, the cursor moves down" one easily :)
[12:25] <daveake> Former was Irish (no offence!); latter was blonde. ;-)
[12:26] <daveake> cuddykid - I have one of those keyfob "spy" cameras in bits here ... want to bet on how long it takes me to destroy it?
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[12:34] <rjharrison> Hi all
[12:34] <rjharrison> Upu, XYL hhappy
[12:38] <number10> hi all
[12:39] <number10> oop meant to say hi rjharrison
[12:40] <number10> I wonder what whizzes past at about 1:13 in this HAB video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPyG4ahAHb0&feature=player_embedded
[12:40] <rjharrison> ni number10
[12:41] <daveake> Oooer. They're out there ... ;)
[12:42] <number10> ah its stationary as you can see it again at 1:42
[12:42] <rjharrison> number10, good spot
[12:42] <rjharrison> Not sure ATM
[12:42] <rjharrison> Looks like 30k alt
[12:43] <rjharrison> Moon ?
[12:43] <rjharrison> another met ballon
[12:43] <rjharrison> There isn't much up at these alts
[12:44] <rjharrison> ahh it;s in the comments
[12:44] <number10> maybe moon in distance see it also at 2:40
[12:45] <daveake> And about 3:29
[12:45] <number10> I really want to abduct some aliens
[12:45] <cuddykid> daveake: haha! probably longer than it took me to destroy it!! Got another on order lol - keep me updated on your progress
[12:46] <daveake> Will do. I'll put my close-up eyes in later :-) (that means, taking my glasses off!)
[12:46] <cuddykid> haha - is yours the same as mine?
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[12:48] <tyrosine> What would happen to a trash bag filled with helium, released into the atmosphere? Do you think it would (or could be designed) to burst at a certain altitude?
[12:49] <rjharrison> tyrosine, use pyros and separate
[12:49] <rjharrison> It will burst thoough of you seal it properly
[12:50] <cuddykid> hmmmm& when I disconnect solar panel from pot divider circuit it reads ~4v output however with pot divider circuit it's reading at around 2.3v (taken from Vin and ground not Vout)
[12:51] <edmoore> circuit diagram cuddykid
[12:51] <edmoore> tyrosine: yes it would burst at some point
[12:51] <cuddykid> haven't got one on hand - will try and find one on internet
[12:51] <edmoore> but what poit depends
[12:51] <cuddykid> edmoore: http://www.clarenceho.net:8123/blog/articles/2009/05/17/arduino-test-voltmeter
[12:51] <edmoore> point
[12:52] <cuddykid> effectively that diagram
[12:52] <daveake> cuddykid - yes, same as I remember yours
[12:52] <edmoore> cuddykid: ok, so the solar panel is connected across Vin and Gnd?
[12:52] <cuddykid> edmoore: yep
[12:53] <edmoore> and with the solar panel connected, Vout = ?
[12:53] <cuddykid> Vout is to the arduino analog pin
[12:54] <edmoore> yes but what's the voltage?
[12:54] <cuddykid> with 2x 10k ohm resistors the pd across V out & gnd is about 1.5 ish in the room atm
[12:54] <cuddykid> edmoore: about 1.5v
[12:55] <edmoore> ok. and with the solar panel disconnected, Vout = ?
[12:55] <cuddykid> 0v
[12:55] <tyrosine> rjharrison: even if I separate, is it dangerous to leave a trash bag at high altitude, especially if it leaks slightly and becomes neutrally buoyant?
[12:56] <edmoore> cuddykid: ok, that's as expected
[12:56] <edmoore> so, what's the behaviour you're observing that is unexpected?
[12:56] <russss> tyrosine: if you're concerned about that you can use a tipping rope, which is attached to the top of the balloon and your payload, which will invert the balloon once you've cutdown
[12:57] <cuddykid> edmoore: why is Vout only 1.5v not 2v ? (I thought the pot divider should 1/2 the value)
[12:57] <rjharrison> tyrosine, not much of a risk I would suggest.
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[12:58] <edmoore> cuddykid: the question is a bit ambigous sorry - why would you expect Vout to be 2V?
[12:58] <fsphil> tyrosine, SAIDias launched a bin-bag balloon
[12:59] <cuddykid> edmoore: with 2 identical resistors surely the potential divider would split the voltage in 1/2 so 4v would be stepped down to 2v? - Sorry about the nooby knowledge!!
[12:59] <tyrosine> fsphil: orly? I'll google for it - I'm happy to know it's been done!
[13:00] <edmoore> cuddykid: that's correct. you just didn't mention that it was 4V since we started from the circuit diagram
[13:00] <edmoore> i need to know these things in order to help :)
[13:00] <fsphil> tyrosine, iirc he used more than one bag. it travelled a pretty good distance
[13:00] <cuddykid> oh right, sorry, I mentioned that reading pd across pv cell gave 4v
[13:01] <edmoore> cuddykid: **with the panel connected** is Vin-Gnd 4V?
[13:01] <daveake> cuddykid - on the camera, looks like the battery +ve goes to the power button (makes sense), and ground goes to the other button.
[13:02] <cuddykid> edmoore: with it connected to circuit its about 2.5v between Vin - GND ; disconnected its 4v across solar panel
[13:02] <edmoore> right
[13:02] <edmoore> so we have your issue
[13:02] <edmoore> the pd is using current just to operate
[13:02] <cuddykid> yeah :)
[13:02] <edmoore> i'm guessing you're inside currently?
[13:03] <cuddykid> yep
[13:03] <edmoore> yup
[13:03] <Laurenceb> http://cgi.ebay.com/Germany-Luftwaffe-V2-A4-Rocket-Graphite-Rudder-WW2-/110698191164
[13:03] <edmoore> so basically there's so little power landing on the solar cell that when you ask for current, the voltage will drop
[13:03] <cuddykid> yeah
[13:03] <rjharrison> Yay! My 3d printer samples have just arrived
[13:03] <daveake> cuddykid: so control from the computer will need an n-channel FET for one and p-channel for t'other
[13:03] <edmoore> power = voltage x current, so for a given light power landing on the solar cell, an increase in current means a decrease in voltage
[13:04] <rjharrison> Anyone played with one of these
[13:04] <edmoore> rjharrison: yup
[13:04] <cuddykid> edmoore: gotya
[13:04] <Randomskk> rjharrison: what make/model of printer?
[13:04] <Randomskk> or is it 3d printed samples?
[13:04] <edmoore> cuddykid: so, the solution would be to use much higher values for R1 and R2
[13:04] <edmoore> eg 100K
[13:04] <fsphil> some neat SSTV images from arrisat-1: http://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/SSTV/
[13:04] <daveake> Nope. One of my projects is 3D printing using regular printer and lenticular screens. Not quite the same thing!
[13:04] <Laurenceb> 3d printed warhammer
[13:04] <rjharrison> edmoore, they look really usefull for HAB parts or any otehr part for that matter
[13:04] <cuddykid> edmoore: ahh thanks :) and also going outside will help?!
[13:05] <edmoore> rjharrison: yeah they're goodf
[13:05] <edmoore> the mechanical properties of the material are fine for hab usually
[13:05] <edmoore> whitestar have made some cool bits for speedball with 3d printing
[13:05] <edmoore> cuddykid: if it's brighter outside
[13:05] <daveake> :)
[13:05] <edmoore> usually direct sunlight is about 1000 times more powerful than indoor lighting
[13:05] <cuddykid> daveake: ooo, sounds complicated! just supplying power to 2 connectors I circled works doesn't it?
[13:06] <cuddykid> cool, thanks edmoore
[13:06] <edmoore> our eyes p[erceive light logarithmically so we don't notice the massive jump
[13:06] <daveake> No!
[13:06] <rjharrison> edmoore, yep these are fortus parts. Mechanically strong and light and non conductive
[13:06] <edmoore> fortus?
[13:06] <edmoore> gotcha rjharrison
[13:06] <daveake> If I'm right, the "take photo" button needs grounding to take a shot
[13:07] <edmoore> rjharrison: for any parts in particular?
[13:07] <cuddykid> daveake: I was just going to run in vid mode
[13:07] <rjharrison> No not atm just investigating the thechnology
[13:07] <edmoore> cuddykid: also, you may want to lower pass filter (smooth out) solar array input to the adc
[13:07] <daveake> So what control do you need? Switch on at a certain height and take video till the battery is dead or the card fills?
[13:08] <edmoore> a basic of sampling theory is that you need to filter your inputs and sample at twice the filter bandwidth
[13:08] <cuddykid> daveake: was just going to turn vid on & off at intervals using arduino
[13:08] <daveake> OK, so you're going to switch on manually before launch?
[13:08] <edmoore> so if you wanted to sample the panel at 10Hz, you'd need to use a filter to the adc input with a 'cutoff frequency' (F underscore o usually) of 5Hz
[13:09] <edmoore> you can use the same filter circuit to give the adc a very high input impedance too which will improve your accuracy
[13:09] <cuddykid> daveake: wasn't planning to, but, never got around to looking at the shutter button, had broke it before then lol
[13:09] <daveake> lol
[13:10] <cuddykid> thanks edmoore
[13:11] <daveake> For the video, the safe way would be Arduino --> resistor --> NPN transistor with emitter to GND and collector going to that switch. Arduino and camera need common GND of course. Then switch the Arduino o/p on for a while to switch the video on (using those Chinglish instructions in the "manual"!)
[13:11] <edmoore> cuddykid: check the 'unity gain butterworth' circuit in 3.2.2 of this doc http://www.eng.yale.edu/ee-labs/morse/compo/sloa058.pdf
[13:11] <edmoore> the low pass one
[13:17] <rjharrison> Randomskk, sorry missed you above. It's just samples from a Fortus printer
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[13:19] <Randomskk> oh cool
[13:24] <cuddykid> thanks daveake, will check it out edmoore :)
[13:24] <cuddykid> lol 'chinglish' !
[13:25] <daveake> It was easier to just press buttons and see what happened than try to understand the manual!
[13:25] <edmoore> cuddykid: if you reapply to do engineering, mention nyquist and your low pass filter on the adc
[13:25] <edmoore> will earn you brownie points
[13:25] <edmoore> actually read up first what nyquist theory is tho otherwise you will loose brownie points if they see you're bluffing :)
[13:25] <cuddykid> poo, thanks :D .. d-day is in about 2 weeks!
[13:25] <cuddykid> *ooo
[13:26] <cuddykid> good old auto-correct doing its job there
[13:26] <edmoore> d-day?
[13:26] <edmoore> oh, results?
[13:26] <cuddykid> yeah!
[13:26] <edmoore> wow
[13:26] <edmoore> good luxck
[13:27] <cuddykid> got a feeling they're not going to be good enough to reapply
[13:27] <cuddykid> thanks
[13:27] <edmoore> you never know
[13:28] <cuddykid> yeah
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[13:34] <fsphil> isn't there someone launching this weekend? (other than nigey's pico launch)
[13:35] <Zuph> Re: 3d printing for HAB: We found no pronounced difference in material strength of printed ABS at room temp. vs. -40.
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[13:42] <rjharrison> Zuph, thanks for that
[13:43] <Zuph> np. Your milage will definitely vary if you're using parts at the edges of strength requirements. Our printed parts are just non-structural dangly bits.
[13:44] <edmoore> Randomskk: still happy with MBA?
[13:44] <Randomskk> so happy
[13:44] <Randomskk> the new ones look even sexier
[13:44] <edmoore> cool
[13:44] <edmoore> i'm getting close
[13:44] <edmoore> core i5 and 256gb ssd = win
[13:44] <Randomskk> they're crazy nice. everyone in the office is getting one now
[13:45] <Randomskk> you clearly should have got one before you lost student discount :P
[13:45] <cuddykid> bro got one in the US, they're very slick!
[13:45] <cuddykid> edmoore: replaced the 10K ohm with 1M ohm, done the job :D
[13:45] <Zuph> I am tempted, but I kind of wish for a beefire video card.
[13:45] <Zuph> *beefier
[13:46] <Randomskk> what do you use it for? my desktop has a beefy video card for when I need that
[13:46] <Randomskk> but for the laptop it hasn't been a concern
[13:46] <Laurenceb> a beef card?
[13:46] <Randomskk> it can do full screen hd video, so...
[13:46] <Laurenceb> sounds tasty
[13:47] <daveake> cuddykid - is this the same as your camera? http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6008144899/
[13:47] <Zuph> That does sounds tasty.
[13:47] <Zuph> Randomskk: Minecraft on the go, principally.
[13:47] <edmoore> Randomskk: as a wee mobile thing
[13:47] <edmoore> that's all
[13:47] <cuddykid> daveake: yep
[13:47] <edmoore> my desktop will be the beef too
[13:47] <Randomskk> Zuph: ooh I wonder how well it does minecraft
[13:47] <edmoore> mba will often be shelled into it
[13:47] <Randomskk> yea
[13:47] <Randomskk> it's so, so good for that
[13:48] <edmoore> i might just get the most gbasin one then
[13:48] <daveake> Then this is how to wire it up :-) http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/6008694764/
[13:48] <Zuph> My view of mobile video cards might be skewed at this point, though. I've used a netbook as my only mobile computer for the past 2.5 years.
[13:48] <Randomskk> edmoore: I got the cheapest on the grounds of it was cheapest and haven't regretted it yet
[13:48] <Randomskk> haven't hit 2GB RAM yet, still <50% disk usage and no plans on needing much more
[13:48] <cuddykid> nice daveake!
[13:48] <edmoore> and between full screen terminal, homebrew, pythonbrew and vagrant, actually all the things that made me switch to linux are sorted
[13:48] <daveake> I'll do the Arduino connection bit when I get time.
[13:49] <Randomskk> my desktop's drive is shared via AFP to the MBA, so I get like 1.5TB space if it needs it
[13:49] <Randomskk> but it really hasn't need it
[13:49] <edmoore> which is to say a good terminal and package management
[13:49] <rjharrison> edmoore, , Randomskk MBA ?
[13:49] <Randomskk> macbook air
[13:49] <cuddykid> daveake: is red & black just from battery?
[13:49] <edmoore> as opposed to expensive certificate
[13:49] <Randomskk> so yea, I have 2GB ram, 64GB disk, don't regret either. CPU speed hasn't really been anything of a concern either
[13:49] <daveake> Yes - easier to solder that side
[13:49] <edmoore> Randomskk: ok
[13:50] <cuddykid> daveake: nice, could just use relays to short?
[13:50] <daveake> Could do.
[13:51] <daveake> I'll do some tests to find a neater option.
[13:51] <rjharrison> lol
[13:51] <daveake> A relay but be a fair proportion of the intended payload weight!
[13:51] <Randomskk> edmoore: you can setup a linux desktop to act as a time machine remote disk fairly easily too
[13:52] <daveake> A couple of transistors and resistors should do it
[13:52] <Randomskk> which is really neat, now my mba backs itself fully up to my desktop, including file diffs etc, and if anything goes wrong I can full-system-restore or just restore individual files
[13:52] <edmoore> Randomskk: oh? that would be grand
[13:52] <edmoore> over wifi?
[13:52] <Randomskk> yea
[13:52] <edmoore> nerdgasm
[13:52] <edmoore> ok
[13:52] <Randomskk> though I am still considering buying a time capsule as it would give me my own gigabit router and n wifi and a 2tb disk to back my desktop etc up to
[13:53] <Randomskk> however the time capsule's inability to do things like run my own software and ipv6 tunneling puts me off a bit, vs my current solution of a wrt54gl running openwrt
[13:53] <Randomskk> which is what I use at uni for my networking stuff
[13:53] <cuddykid> daveake: like the thinking!
[13:53] <edmoore> i could reciprocally use the mba to backup the linux desktop using backblaze
[13:53] <Randomskk> might get a time capsule just for the disk and to act as a wifi AP though, then keep using my wrt45gl as the router
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> you get some flashable routers that you can plug USB mass storage into
[13:53] <Randomskk> in that that's probably what I'll do when I can justify buying a time capsule
[13:54] <edmoore> put yourself in my shoes
[13:54] <edmoore> justifying buying a laptop
[13:54] <Randomskk> use it as a gigabit switch and n wifi AP and NAS, but keep the wrt54gl for upstream internet access
[13:54] <edmoore> when i already have a laptop
[13:54] <Randomskk> oh pfft I did that in like lent
[13:54] <Randomskk> I also already had a laptop
[13:54] <Randomskk> and was already in overdraft debt anyway
[13:54] <Laurenceb> wow how much porn do you guys use
[13:54] <edmoore> i have a house deposit coming up soon
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> Remember ebay selling.
[13:54] <daveake> lol
[13:54] <Randomskk> and I had no income :P
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> old laptop
[13:54] <edmoore> but then.... i should maybe get it wuile i'm still a syudent
[13:54] <daveake> (looks out at 8TB homebrew NAS ....)
[13:54] <Randomskk> student discount is significant
[13:54] <edmoore> yes
[13:54] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: So is the 'wait 6 months' discount.
[13:55] <Randomskk> not with apple stuff, unless you buy second hand, and even then...
[13:55] <Randomskk> well
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> Even more the 'wait 3 years' discount. :)
[13:55] <Randomskk> unless you mean "wait until the next version comes out"
[13:55] <Randomskk> but tbh I wanted it then and I've got a lot of use out of it in the last few months
[13:55] <Randomskk> more than I paid for it in terms of value to me, so meh
[13:55] <Zuph> Heh, my Uni doesn't revoke credentials when students graduate. I can still get all the free software and discounted stuff :-p
[13:55] <Randomskk> no regrets on that front
[13:55] <edmoore> Randomskk: could you ssh -X into gate.eng.cam.ac.uk and see what the 4gb 11" model costs from CUDN?
[13:55] <edmoore> if you have nowt better to do :)
[13:56] <Randomskk> usually I'd -D7070 and use socks proxying
[13:56] <edmoore> fine w/e
[13:56] <Randomskk> but uhm, right now I'm at work, off the top of my head it was like £7500
[13:56] <Randomskk> uh
[13:56] <Randomskk> 750 pounds.
[13:56] <Randomskk> one sec though
[13:56] <edmoore> hmm
[13:56] <Randomskk> I'm already on pip for -> my server
[13:56] <edmoore> that's a lot
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[13:56] <edmoore> i might struggle on with the mbp until it gives up properly
[13:57] <edmoore> 2006-2011 - not bad. you do get value out of these things
[13:57] <edmoore> it's seen over 60 hab launches, daily bashing in my bag on a bike to and from lectures, it's been dropped a few times, rained and snowed on, soldered on
[13:57] <Randomskk> right
[13:57] <edmoore> and it taught me unix
[13:58] <Randomskk> 729.60 cheppest one
[13:58] <edmoore> the 4gb one? just as my sims can actually swallow 2gb quite happily with this bayesian shizzle
[13:58] <edmoore> tho really it's a job for the desktop
[13:58] <Randomskk> yea
[13:58] <Randomskk> I wouldn't be running sims on it locally
[13:58] <Randomskk> that was for the cheapest one, which I think is 2gb? I didn't actually check specs
[13:59] <edmoore> yup
[13:59] <Randomskk> anyway it's the same percentage discount
[13:59] <Randomskk> applecare otoh is stupidly discounted if you wanted to get it, like it's about 40, 50 pounds
[13:59] <Randomskk> vs like 200, 300?
[13:59] <edmoore> ever had pangs for a dvd drive?
[13:59] <edmoore> yes i recall from last time
[13:59] <Randomskk> nah
[13:59] <edmoore> mega good
[13:59] <Randomskk> it has encouraged me to rip my few DVDs to my desktop
[14:00] <edmoore> i'll get usb ethernet fo sho
[14:00] <Randomskk> and then I stream the video files to vlc or use them over the network or something
[14:00] <Randomskk> meh, I thought I'd want that too but never bothered in the end
[14:00] <edmoore> and the dvi and vga adaptors
[14:00] <Randomskk> wifi is so much quicekr and easier
[14:00] <Randomskk> it connects to wifi networks stupidly fast
[14:00] <Randomskk> apple mess around with dhcp and arp to do it silly quick
[14:00] <edmoore> i'll def need the adaptors
[14:00] <Randomskk> the mini-dp adaptors might well be useful
[14:01] <Randomskk> I haven't needed them yet
[14:01] <edmoore> i give presentations at least monthly
[14:01] <Randomskk> but I'd hold off on ethernet and dvd drive until you find you actually want/need one?
[14:01] <Randomskk> well
[14:01] <Randomskk> maybe if you're at presentations you will actually need ethernet
[14:01] <Darkside> edmoore: so you're at cambridge?
[14:01] <edmoore> Darkside: just left
[14:01] <edmoore> was
[14:01] <Darkside> ahh
[14:01] <edmoore> Randomskk: the display adaptors i mean
[14:01] <Randomskk> yea
[14:01] <rjharrison> edmoore has done this time
[14:01] <edmoore> i can probs survive w/o usb ethernet
[14:02] <rjharrison> his
[14:02] <edmoore> until i do embedded dev
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[14:02] <Randomskk> heh
[14:02] <Randomskk> even then I'd just wifi to something on a switch probably
[14:02] <edmoore> :)
[14:02] <Randomskk> M0JSN has been enjoying his time doing emebedded ethernet recently :P
[14:02] <edmoore> i need to think more apple, obviously
[14:02] <Randomskk> M0JSN: how does embedded ethernet make you feel?
[14:02] <M0JSN> hahahaha
[14:02] <M0JSN> cry
[14:02] <M0JSN> :(
[14:02] <edmoore> i mean on single board computers that already work
[14:02] <edmoore> like the blimp
[14:03] <edmoore> wifi rarely worked so we used wired ethernet a lot
[14:03] <M0JSN> it's not the hardware that's the problem
[14:03] <Randomskk> yea, fair enough
[14:03] <edmoore> occassionally my super well designed linux drivers brought down the entire kernel, in which case it was rs232
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[14:04] <M0JSN> Randomskk: gonna try and do the udp port mapper this evening
[14:04] <Randomskk> good luck :|
[14:04] <Randomskk> shouldn't be too hard I guess
[14:04] <Randomskk> but like, :|
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[14:04] <M0JSN> shouldn't have to do it
[14:06] <M0JSN> i really want DNS and DHCP though
[14:06] <tyrosine> fsphil: I'm having a hard time finding that bin-bag balloon page. Do you have a link that could help me find it?
[14:07] <WillDuckworth> anyone used one of those venus skytraq gps units on a flight yet?
[14:07] <Zuph> Apple discounts here are kind of shit. I can get it cheaper through work than school. $939 (575 gbp today).
[14:07] <Zuph> which means if hibby wants a mba, he should buy one now :-p
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[14:09] <tyrosine> fsphil: you're not referring to the heat-powered ones are you?
[14:09] <edmoore> Randomskk: ok close
[14:09] <edmoore> v close
[14:09] <edmoore> hmm
[14:10] Action: Elwell may go mad while the CHF is strong
[14:10] <edmoore> i wonder if there's an apple store in ox
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[14:10] <edmoore> i drove in today so i have my cart
[14:10] <edmoore> car
[14:10] <fsphil> ack, he left
[14:10] <edmoore> the old mbp can become the kitchen laptop
[14:10] <Elwell> keep looking at new MBPs but http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ looks like its wait a while time
[14:10] <edmoore> i always find washing up goes faster with iplayer
[14:11] <rjharrison> edmoore, try a wife
[14:11] <edmoore> putting that one off for a decade or two yet
[14:11] <rjharrison> & a dishwasher. Needless to say she's not near me
[14:12] <number10> I heard that she logs in using a nick you wopuldnt guess rjharrison
[14:12] <rjharrison> lol
[14:13] <SamSilver> is that a nervios lol Rob?
[14:13] <rjharrison> So long as I didn't leave the IRC loggin in at home im ok
[14:13] <edmoore> + music while cooking too
[14:13] Action: fsphil listens to music most of the day in the office
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[14:14] <edmoore> my housemate backed out of the kitchen slowly once when he walked in on me wielding my 12" chef's knife (shut up) doing high speed chopping with tchaikovsky convcerto finale at 120dB
[14:14] <edmoore> it's the only way to cook.
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[14:15] <daveake> "Cooking doesnt' get any more dangerous than this" :)
[14:16] <edmoore> oh they're such wallys
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> Chopping at silly speed can be very safe
[14:16] <edmoore> i find it almost unwatchable
[14:16] <SpeedEvil> If you know what you're doing.
[14:17] <edmoore> there was one epsisode where they introduced Michel Roux Snr as if he were a Balrog
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> If you need to watch what you're doing when you're doing high-speed chopping, it's probably not being done right
[14:17] <Elwell> http://metal-engravings.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Laser-Engraving-Macbook-Pro02.jpg -- awesome
[14:17] <edmoore> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQc6kCNf2xI
[14:18] <daveake> "Godfather of pastry" lmao
[14:18] <edmoore> just listen to the music
[14:19] <edmoore> i love the way he says 'bonjour'
[14:19] <edmoore> i want that voice when i'm older
[14:20] <edmoore> a lifetime of good cheese and good burgundy
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[14:21] <daveake> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjckqAU8IkM is better :)
[14:21] <Zuph> edmoore: that is absurd :-p
[14:22] <edmoore> amazing right?
[14:22] <edmoore> what a voice
[14:22] <edmoore> my other half at the time had a bit of a thing for him
[14:23] <SamSilver> and here I am listen to Dumay
[14:23] <russss> edmoore: it almost sounds like they've put a bit of reverb on his voice.
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[14:26] <NigeyS> wee.. survived the dentist :D
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[14:26] <russss> edmoore: the music is Rob Dougan - Speed Me Towards Death, btw.
[14:27] <edmoore> ta
[14:27] <NigeyS> afternoon ed, russss
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[14:31] <edmoore> Randomskk: what about extended typing?
[14:31] <edmoore> comfy?
[14:31] <cuddykid> ergh, just as I've got voltage sorted out I can't do the current now - measuring pd across 1k ohm resistor (as pd across 10ohm is too small) to find that it is about 0.48v :S
[14:32] <edmoore> i think you're going ti wrong
[14:32] <edmoore> it
[14:32] <edmoore> current sense resistors need to be really small
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[14:33] <edmoore> eg 0.1 ohms
[14:33] <cuddykid> edmoore: with a 10ohm one though the pd is tinyyy
[14:33] <edmoore> then you amplify the voltage drop with an op-amp
[14:33] <edmoore> yes, it's meant to be tiny
[14:33] <cuddykid> oh right
[14:33] <edmoore> the point is you don't want the sense resistor to get in the way
[14:33] <M0JSN> if you put a larger resistor in then you decrease the current
[14:34] <edmoore> you would never be able to hang anything off the solar cell if you had a massive resisor in the way!
[14:34] <edmoore> the resisotr would limit you load to 4mA
[14:34] <cuddykid> I get you! - oh dear.. this is proving to be a nightmare!
[14:34] <edmoore> it's not, push through
[14:34] <M0JSN> cuddykid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunt_(electrical)#Use_in_current_measuring
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[14:34] <edmoore> you're vacuuming up electronics engineering at a rate
[14:35] <cuddykid> lol
[14:35] <edmoore> op-amps are your friend. learn how they work (it's easy) as they're brilliant
[14:35] <edmoore> i'm building a circuit that can deliver 5A constantly into a load
[14:36] <edmoore> i use a sense resistor in series and measure the voltage drop
[14:36] <Zuph> edmoore: Brilliant, I'm building a circuit that can suck 5A constantly out of a source :-p
[14:36] <edmoore> for 5A, there will be a fixed drop across the resistor. the circuit varies the input voltage to maintain that voltage at a constant level
[14:37] <edmoore> lol
[14:37] <edmoore> i guess it's the same xcircuit
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[14:38] <M0JSN> high or low side shunt, that's the question
[14:38] <edmoore> is it?
[14:38] <M0JSN> perhaps
[14:38] <Zuph> I dissapate the power through a big mosfet. An Opamp biases the mosfet across a .5ohm resistor to get a constant current sink (controllable with an analog input) 0-5A.
[14:38] <number10> youv'e just missed the missus rjharrison - for some reason she was in here wanting a copy of the logs
[14:38] <edmoore> current is constant in the loop
[14:38] <edmoore> so v-drop should be constant
[14:38] <M0JSN> well yes
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[14:39] <M0JSN> but high side shunt will have common mode voltage on both sides
[14:39] <edmoore> Zuph: ah k, so no feedback?
[14:39] <edmoore> oh no ingore that
[14:39] <edmoore> misread
[14:39] <M0JSN> and various other advantages/disadvantages
[14:40] <edmoore> sure but the amp for the v-drop should have a good cmrr
[14:40] <M0JSN> yep
[14:40] <Zuph> edmoore: heh. Ultimately, it's an arduino controlled battery tester.
[14:41] <edmoore> neat
[14:41] <M0JSN> as long as it can take the common mode voltage, which is likely to be orders of magnitude greater than the shunt pd
[14:41] <edmoore> i could do with one of those
[14:41] <Zuph> Designed for white star, but never quite finished in time. Still useful.
[14:41] <hibby> swear grumble mutter
[14:41] <M0JSN> i've only used low side shunts, whose disadvantages are fewer, at least where I've used them
[14:41] <Zuph> Can design controllable duty cycle and timed current spikes/valleys.
[14:41] <cuddykid> edmoore: to measure power - I need to be able to measure the current right? (as not sure which R in P=v^2/r is)
[14:42] <Zuph> hibby: rough morn?
[14:42] <edmoore> cuddykid: correct
[14:42] <hibby> how can such a large company have such an inefficient IT structure
[14:42] <edmoore> sort of correlates doesn't it hibby ?
[14:42] <cuddykid> great, anyone know where I can get one of these shunt resistors? :S
[14:42] <hibby> in the 4 weeks Iv been paid to be here, i have spent 3 hours logged in.
[14:42] <edmoore> cuddykid: any low value resisor will work
[14:42] <edmoore> it's not a specific resistor you need
[14:42] <edmoore> BUT
[14:42] <cuddykid> smallest I've got is 10 ohm
[14:43] <edmoore> put 100 in parallel
[14:43] <edmoore> or buy a 0.1 ohm resisotr
[14:43] <Zuph> hibby: par for the course
[14:43] <edmoore> BUT
[14:43] <cuddykid> edmoore: think I'll buy the 0.1 lol
[14:43] <edmoore> check the resisotr can take the power
[14:43] <hibby> indeed. theyre taking my computer away today
[14:43] <cuddykid> ahh ok
[14:43] <edmoore> so P = I^2 x R
[14:44] <hibby> so they can reimage it.
[14:44] <cuddykid> and that R is the resistor value?
[14:44] <edmoore> if you want, say, up 5A going through it
[14:44] <edmoore> and it's a 0.1 ohn resistor
[14:44] <hibby> but im not here till monday.
[14:44] <edmoore> you'll have 5^2 x 0.1 = 2.5W
[14:44] <cuddykid> cool :)
[14:44] <edmoore> so get a resistor rated for 2.5+ W
[14:44] <hibby> and i need to do work tomorrow.
[14:44] <edmoore> they're usually quite chunky
[14:44] <cuddykid> cheers :)
[14:44] <SamSilver> cuddykid: do you have som nicrome wire?
[14:44] <cuddykid> SamSilver, yeah
[14:45] <Darkside> hey hibby
[14:45] <edmoore> oh good thinking SamSilver
[14:45] <Darkside> our payload prototype works :D
[14:45] <hibby> nice.
[14:45] <edmoore> for a sat?
[14:45] <SamSilver> well measure the ohm vale of a length
[14:45] <cuddykid> SamSilver, will do! :D
[14:45] <hibby> wish id stayed at home and worked on ukube
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[14:46] <hibby> my 8 weeks working here has been 5 weeks sitting.
[14:46] <cuddykid> also, last question hopefully! - can I measure the current successfully despite the pot divider circuit? (guess not as the 1 M ohm resistors would've munched the current :S )
[14:46] <Darkside> heh hibby
[14:46] <hibby> and regardless of the country, sitting about is shit.
[14:47] <Darkside> heh
[14:47] <hibby> i have 3 weeks left t do all my work.
[14:48] <hibby> its not happening, is it?
[14:49] <Zuph> hah
[14:49] <Zuph> That's incompetence.
[14:49] <Zuph> GE just wasted a ton of cash on you :-p
[14:50] <hibby> totally.
[14:50] <hibby> love that bit
[14:50] <hibby> couple of thousand dollsrs on a foreign national.
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[14:51] <hibby> its going to look good in the audits.
[14:51] <hibby> when they have to explain i did
[14:52] <hibby> nothing...
[14:53] <Zuph> Those visas aren't easy to get either.
[14:53] <hibby> nope.
[14:53] <Upu> afternoon
[14:53] <daveake> cuddykid - the current through the power button is only 50 uA - 200uA. Hardly enough to need a relay!
[14:53] <Upu> hey rjharrison sorry was afk - no problems
[14:54] <Upu> Bloody Farnell have somehow managed to delivery my stuff to Cornwall.. :/
[14:55] <LazyLeopard> Oops...
[14:56] <daveake> 'nell, that's far
[14:57] <rjharrison> arse
[14:58] <Upu> wrong sticker on the box
[14:58] <Upu> anyway its on its way
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[15:16] <SpeedEvil> Does anyone happen to know if there are any regulations (other than animal cruelty) on what you can do with trained birds?
[15:18] <Laurenceb> lulwut
[15:18] Action: SpeedEvil was just idly wondering.
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Following the story about news-corp maybe getting into trouble in the states about their drone.
[15:19] <Laurenceb> i thought it was legal over there
[15:20] <hibby> ". As the Quaaludes take effect and make the eaters body render itself loose and pliable at all orifices, the marijuana heightens sensuality and causes girls to become like cats in heat. The boys at the concert are stiff with sin at this point and the band plays loud, hypnotic electronic dance music that causes everyone to strip off their clothing and violate every sensible morality that a person should have."
[15:20] <hibby> http://christwire.org/2011/07/electric-daisy-electronic-dance-raver-orgy-leaves-100s-sodomized-drugged-in-hollywood-dj-kaskade-tweets-at-manns-chinese-theater/ wow.... its like a serious version of brass eye
[15:20] <Laurenceb> wtf
[15:21] <Zuph> It's legal as long as it flies under like 600 feet, no more than some arbitrary distance from the operator
[15:22] <SAIDias> Howdy
[15:22] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[15:23] <hibby> its to do with making money fromnit...
[15:23] <hibby> that seems to be the illegal bit.
[15:25] <Laurenceb> that site is joke surely
[15:26] <hibby> nope
[15:26] <hibby> the site appears deadly serious
[15:26] <hibby> the comment battles are too heated.
[15:26] <Zuph> ChristWire is a satire website.
[15:27] <Zuph> Granted, they're *very* good. Huff post was duped twice by them.
[15:27] <Laurenceb> thats got to be fake
[15:28] <hibby> hurrah. thats good t know.
[15:28] <Laurenceb> Most of the “DJs” of the EDM scene are simple basement dwellers who have downloaded the recording program “Audacity” and another program called “Fruityloops”
[15:28] <Laurenceb> hahaha
[15:28] <hibby> now, wat about that creation museum.
[15:29] <Zuph> The creation museum is very real.
[15:30] <Zuph> Kentucky also gave a ton of money to the same company for a Noah's Ark theme park
[15:30] <hibby> :/
[15:30] <hibby> one water ride?
[15:30] <Zuph> Yeah, but it's a doozy :-p
[15:31] <hibby> and they think 40days and nightsof rain is bad.
[15:31] <hibby> i come from Scotland.
[15:31] <Laurenceb> hmm that page should be put on on the ED page for EDM
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[15:33] <hibby> we get it for years at a time
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[15:54] <hibby> aww yeah
[15:54] Action: hibby arrives home
[15:54] <hibby> time for mlp, beer and sleep.
[15:55] <SamSilver> mlp?
[15:55] <hibby> my little pony
[15:55] <hibby> like a boss.
[15:55] <SamSilver> lol
[15:56] <Laurenceb> theres snother word beginning with p
[15:57] <SamSilver> yes Laurenceb thats what I was thinking
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[15:57] <Laurenceb> but also little
[15:58] <hibby> snigger
[15:58] <hibby> should probably call the mrs
[16:00] <SamSilver> bad me, i was thinking my lovley porn
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[16:01] <SamSilver> how sensetive is a funcube?
[16:02] <fsphil> I call it names once, and it cried
[16:02] <SamSilver> that sensitive ?
[16:03] <SamSilver> if you just look at a ar8000 it tears up and blushes
[16:03] <fsphil> the dongle? I don't know the numbers -- seems alright though
[16:03] <fsphil> it would really need a band pass filter for whatever band you're working
[16:04] <SamSilver> I have my unrestricted licence just for HAB
[16:04] <SamSilver> 433 aprs is waht I am thining
[16:05] <hibby> i think it's -120dBm
[16:12] <SamSilver> going to have a look see at the specs but am keen to hear if it lives up to them in real life comparisions
[16:12] <hibby> i think fsphil is the man for that?
[16:13] <fsphil> it hears everything my 817 hears - my only issue is the out-of-band noise
[16:13] <fsphil> I've yet to try it on a hab flight, other than to test my own payload
[16:13] <fsphil> that'll be a good test, with the weak signals this far away
[16:15] <SamSilver> i have been bending the plastic pretty hard on this new hobby
[16:16] <SamSilver> will swing the funcube past the old farts at the club, bet they have not heard of it
[16:17] <fsphil> "What's a dongle?"
[16:18] <SamSilver> true
[16:18] <fsphil> yikes, SMA to SO-239 adaptor is £5
[16:20] <SamSilver> gold plated with zircon?
[16:21] <fsphil> you'd hope so!
[16:21] <NigeyS> anyone else find this slightly funny ..
[16:21] <NigeyS> Atlas V User's Guide
[16:21] <NigeyS> a pdf .. lol
[16:22] <fsphil> better than a .doc
[16:22] <russss> NigeyS: Saturn V Flight Manual: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750063889_1975063889.pdf
[16:22] <fsphil> or worse, .docx
[16:22] <hibby> we had a demonstration of google maps at our club
[16:22] <hibby> :/
[16:22] <fsphil> seems an odd thing to demonstrate hibby
[16:22] <russss> also, Soyuz Users Manual: http://www.arianespace.com/launch-services-soyuz/Soyuz_Users_Manual_CSG_June06.pdf
[16:22] <fsphil> that's like demonstrating a tap
[16:22] <NigeyS> lol russss nice find, cant find any reference to "light the blue touch paper" though :(
[16:22] <hibby> "new fangled technology"
[16:22] <russss> although that's Soyuz the rocket, not Soyuz the spacecraft
[16:23] <fsphil> home time, woo
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[16:28] <rjharrison> yay home time here tooooooo
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[17:40] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Potential HAB opportunity missed. #ukhas #apexhab http://t.co/YD0gc6B [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/99172767114600449]
[17:40] <griffonbot> @kylehotchkiss: RT @apexhab: Potential HAB opportunity missed. #ukhas #apexhab http://t.co/YD0gc6B [http://twitter.com/kylehotchkiss/status/99172945183784960]
[17:46] <eroomde> what's habbening?
[17:46] <jonsowman> lol
[17:47] <eroomde> jonsowman: inches from a mba
[17:47] <Upu> what goes on here, this place is habbening man
[17:47] <jonsowman> physically or metaphorically eroomde?
[17:47] Action: Upu gets his coat
[17:47] <eroomde> meta
[17:47] <jonsowman> hehe
[17:47] <jonsowman> which flavour?
[17:47] <eroomde> nearest apple shop is readding
[17:48] <eroomde> reading*
[17:48] <eroomde> 11
[17:48] <eroomde> but... it's the price of a holiday
[17:48] <kristianpaul> nice, parachute arrived :)
[17:48] <eroomde> it would get me to sweden
[17:48] <kristianpaul> time to build that solar balloon :-D
[17:48] <Darkside> time for some random links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygI-2F8ApUM
[17:48] <eroomde> Darkside: what's up with you?
[17:48] <Darkside> not much atm
[17:49] <eroomde> you seem to go all johnny-nice-painter in the evenings
[17:49] <Darkside> got out first TOPCAT prototype working today
[17:49] <Darkside> eroomde: oh?
[17:49] <Darkside> johnny nice painter?
[17:49] <jonsowman> eroomde: base or top spec?
[17:49] <eroomde> jonsowman: undecided
[17:49] <jonsowman> what's the difference these days
[17:49] <eroomde> the extra gb could be useful
[17:49] <eroomde> likewise ram
[17:49] <eroomde> 64/128 ssd
[17:49] <eroomde> 2/4gb ram
[17:50] <eroomde> dont care about cpu
[17:50] <eroomde> Darkside: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRJxafiqHvw
[17:50] <jonsowman> I think Randomskk said he hasn't missed the extra 2gb ram really
[17:50] <eroomde> a spoof of a very sober and inoffensive watercolour program that sued to be on tv
[17:50] <Randomskk> oh we're talking about this again?
[17:50] Action: Randomskk reads scrollback
[17:50] <eroomde> except he goes mental if anyone mentions the word black
[17:50] <Darkside> aha
[17:51] <jonsowman> eroomde: the ssd means that pulling stuff back into ram after hibernate or whatever is so quick
[17:51] <eroomde> yup
[17:51] <jonsowman> can you see yourself doing things that require loads of mem?
[17:51] <Darkside> eroomde: i don't get the connection
[17:51] <Darkside> >_>
[17:51] <eroomde> Darkside: suddent urges for youtube links to random things
[17:51] <Darkside> heh
[17:52] <Darkside> well it is an awesome video
[17:52] <Darkside> BRODYQUEST!
[17:52] <eroomde> jonsowman: i might get more ram for things like, for example, our ESA concept design review presentation was 1GB
[17:53] <eroomde> Randomskk: have you dl osx lion?
[17:53] <eroomde> or jonsowman for that matter
[17:53] <Randomskk> yea I do
[17:53] <Randomskk> it's, well
[17:53] <Randomskk> you don't exactly have a choice
[17:53] <eroomde> Darkside: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj84tfS7ag4&NR=1
[17:53] <jonsowman> i haven't eroomde
[17:53] <Randomskk> it's perfectly okay
[17:53] <eroomde> i'm trying it now
[17:53] <eroomde> if it's mega awesome that may sway my decision to get a mba
[17:54] <Randomskk> I am a bit sad that it's broken chrome's swipe history navigation until version 14 hits stable
[17:54] <eroomde> just the idea of fullscreen terminals with a 4-fingered swipe between them is very appealing
[17:54] <Randomskk> yea but I had that in snow leopard
[17:54] <jonsowman> haha
[17:54] <eroomde> i don;t have a multitouch touchpad
[17:54] <Randomskk> and in fact in lion it's three finger swipes between them
[17:54] <Randomskk> ah
[17:54] <Randomskk> in which case oh god yes
[17:54] <eroomde> 2006 baby
[17:54] <jonsowman> i don't think it's worth £21 for me
[17:54] <eroomde> core duo ftw
[17:54] <Randomskk> multitouch touchpad is amazing
[17:54] <Randomskk> so good
[17:54] <jonsowman> eroomde: mine's a core 2 dup
[17:54] <jonsowman> *duo
[17:55] <jonsowman> new ones have what, like, i5s?
[17:55] <eroomde> it's all about the 2
[17:55] <eroomde> yep
[17:55] <jonsowman> mind you this thing is perfectly fast enough still
[17:55] <Randomskk> or i7 I think you can upgrade to
[17:55] <jonsowman> gosh
[17:55] <eroomde> wow
[17:55] <eroomde> 13 inch presumably
[17:55] <eroomde> i am really going to lightness
[17:56] <jonsowman> if I were buying now I'd probably go for the mba over the mbp
[17:56] <eroomde> it's the damn weight of this thing that puts me off
[17:56] <Randomskk> I'm definitely glad I went with the 11"
[17:56] <Randomskk> (fnarr fnarr etc)
[17:56] <Randomskk> it's super lightweight and I don't miss the screen space for what I do with it
[17:56] <eroomde> i never take it out with my in the day just into town cos it does ones shoulder in
[17:56] <Randomskk> I have my dual 24" at home when I need screen space
[17:56] <eroomde> but then you find yourself with a spare hour in a coffee shop which would be perfect to get some stuff done
[17:57] <eroomde> Randomskk: lol. i need to upgrade my 2nd monitor
[17:57] <jonsowman> eroomde: is yours a 15"?
[17:57] <eroomde> join the dual 24 club
[17:57] <eroomde> jonsowman: yes
[17:57] <eroomde> 2006 15@ mbp
[17:57] <jonsowman> right
[17:57] <Randomskk> eroomde: the other sexy thing to do, I'm told
[17:57] <eroomde> damn apple keyboards
[17:57] <Randomskk> is get a full spec MBP
[17:57] <Randomskk> and two of apple's new thunderbolt displays
[17:57] <Randomskk> for your main
[17:57] <eroomde> nice
[17:57] <Randomskk> the thunderbolt displays are /so nice/
[17:57] <Randomskk> like oh my goodness
[17:57] <eroomde> so you can daisy chain displays with TB?
[17:57] <Randomskk> yea
[17:58] <Randomskk> on MBP
[17:58] <Randomskk> MBA can only drive one external display
[17:58] <Randomskk> MBP can do two
[17:58] <eroomde> same panel is u2411 aren't they?
[17:58] <jonsowman> snazzy
[17:58] <Randomskk> they're 27"
[17:58] <eroomde> oh no, the 27@
[17:58] <eroomde> damn apple keyboard
[17:58] <Randomskk> http://www.apple.com/displays/ look how nice this is
[17:58] <eroomde> wow, that is rather nice
[17:58] <jonsowman> eroomde: i've changed the keyboard layout to 'real' UK
[17:58] <Randomskk> one cable --> laptop power and thunderbolt
[17:58] <Randomskk> the display then has gigabit ethernet, USB, HD video, 27" monitor, another thunderbolt port for daisy chaining
[17:59] <Randomskk> (or connecting your high speed RAID device or whatever)
[17:59] <Randomskk> to be honest, just one thunderbolt display and the laptop screen would probably do
[17:59] <Randomskk> but really I like having two identical screens, at work right now I have the laptop and a 24" and it's just not as good
[17:59] <eroomde> yes
[17:59] <Randomskk> (even with a 15" laptop screen)
[17:59] <eroomde> well the new mba has tb
[17:59] <Randomskk> yea indeed
[17:59] <eroomde> so that could be just the tickey
[17:59] <Randomskk> you could mba + thunderbolt screen
[17:59] <eroomde> nerdgasm
[17:59] <Randomskk> and later, upgrade to two thunderbolt screens and mbp at home :P
[17:59] <jonsowman> haha
[18:00] <jonsowman> then use your mba as a doorstop
[18:00] <Randomskk> the only concern I'd have with that setup is that the mba becomes more of a main computer, so you'd probably want slightly higher specs
[18:00] <Randomskk> mba is still good for being portable :P
[18:00] <jonsowman> true
[18:00] <jonsowman> i don't find portability too much of an issue with my 13" mbp
[18:01] <eroomde> i'll stick with ultraportable and big desktop as i have it atm i think
[18:01] <jonsowman> it's not light, but it fits and is comfortable to carry in a bag
[18:01] <jonsowman> glad i went for the 13" over the 15"
[18:01] <jonsowman> that was two years ago, blimey
[18:01] <Darkside> yeah, i got a 13" initially
[18:01] <Darkside> but i'm loving my 15" macbook pro now
[18:01] <Darkside> especially with the high res screen option
[18:02] <jonsowman> i do wish this had a slightly higher res screen
[18:02] <Darkside> mm
[18:02] <jonsowman> but really it's not too much of an issue
[18:02] <Randomskk> if I was going to have an mbp as a desktop it'd probably be a 15"... well
[18:02] <Darkside> on the 15" you can get a 1680x1050 display
[18:02] <Randomskk> actually it'd probably be... hmm
[18:02] <eroomde> you have 2 24@ screens too jonsowman :)
[18:02] <Randomskk> actually I wouldn't get a laptop to use as a main computer
[18:02] <eroomde> damn apple keyboard
[18:02] <jonsowman> eroomde: i do indeed
[18:02] <Randomskk> still want a desktop for that
[18:02] <Randomskk> eroomde: you can get it to use a proper UK layout
[18:02] <Randomskk> bonus points, it confuses other people sometimes
[18:03] <jonsowman> Randomskk: haha
[18:03] <eroomde> 24"
[18:04] <eroomde> much better aziz thank you
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[18:16] <number10> Upu: how far off launch are you with Ava?
[18:22] <NigeyS> BREAKING NEWS:
[18:22] <NigeyS> Nasa scientists say they have found evidence for liquid water on Mars
[18:22] <NigeyS>
[18:22] <NigeyS> oooooo
[18:25] <eroomde> are i wondered what that was
[18:25] <eroomde> in the offic yesterday we heard there was to be an announcement
[18:25] <eroomde> thought they might have found beagle
[18:26] <NigeyS> :D
[18:26] <NigeyS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14408928
[18:27] <eroomde> on the coffee table infront of my is the flight-spare beagle parachute and mortar
[18:27] <eroomde> a nice conversation piece!
[18:28] <Darkside> lol nice
[18:37] <eroomde> does anyone know about metal pricing?
[18:37] <eroomde> and selling good engineering-worthy metal blanks?
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[18:43] <Zuph> Here in the US it's about $250 a ton, unless it's Copper or some other high-value special stuff.
[18:43] <Zuph> (Better to sell private party than for scrap in most instances).
[18:43] <eroomde> this is grade 5 titanium
[18:43] <eroomde> 6al-4Va
[18:43] <Zuph> Welp, no clue there.
[18:43] <eroomde> wondering if we can offload it
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> ebay!
[18:45] <WillDuckworth> ping jonsowman
[18:45] <jonsowman> hi WillDuckworth
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=titanium%20rod&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories
[18:45] <WillDuckworth> hiya, any possibility of you creating a WDHABmini - same as WDHAB, but with a 700 shift
[18:46] <jonsowman> yep
[18:46] <jonsowman> hold on
[18:46] <WillDuckworth> excellent
[18:46] <jonsowman> WillDuckworth: can't do custom shifts at the moment
[18:46] <jonsowman> ]will have to make it 600
[18:47] <jonsowman> i can put 700 in the xml but fldigi will set it to 23 or something
[18:47] <WillDuckworth> cool, should be ok, thanks.
[18:47] <jonsowman> done
[18:47] <WillDuckworth> got a 'double' ready to roll v soon
[18:47] <WillDuckworth> thanks
[18:50] <WillDuckworth> ooo - jonsowman, sorry, can you tweak the freq for wdhabmini to 434.075 and both set to LSB
[18:50] <WillDuckworth> that ok
[18:50] <fsphil> LSB? lazy :p
[18:51] <WillDuckworth> cheers fsphil - desperate times
[18:51] <fsphil> lol
[18:51] <jonsowman> done
[18:51] <fsphil> you could just swap the wires on the board :)
[18:51] <WillDuckworth> he is good
[18:51] <jonsowman> i don't know why the latency on rjh's server is so high
[18:51] <Randomskk> or click Rv :P
[18:51] <fsphil> I get that sometimes jonsowman
[18:51] <jonsowman> average ping time 134ms
[18:52] <fsphil> for a few days before my launch I struggled to get anything of it
[18:52] <jonsowman> i'd say move it to nessie if habitat wasn't on the horizon
[18:52] <fsphil> yea
[18:52] <Randomskk> haha how high up are you? :P
[18:52] <fsphil> no point going through the hassle
[18:52] <fsphil> lol
[18:53] <Randomskk> really I reckon a few days of hard work and we could have habitat doing all the backend stuff
[18:53] <Randomskk> use spacenear.us as the frontend sink for the time being
[18:53] <Randomskk> habitat has code to let it post to spacenear.us
[18:53] <jonsowman> Randomskk: lol, it's like nuclear fusion
[18:54] <jonsowman> always x years away
[18:54] <Randomskk> hehe
[18:54] <Randomskk> the other problem is how robertharrison.org is hardcoded into a lot of dl-fldigi out there
[18:54] <Randomskk> it needs an autoupdate mechanism, at least a box that pops up saying "you're out of date! get the latest version kthx"
[18:54] <fsphil> only hardcoded in the old version
[18:54] <Randomskk> yea but everyone deployed right now still has it set to the old value
[18:54] <Randomskk> s/old/current
[18:55] <fsphil> aye
[18:55] <Randomskk> and anyway really dl-fldigi is going to have to change to post to habitat properly
[18:55] <jonsowman> when they all stop working they'll come in here and ask, then we can tell them :)
[18:55] <Randomskk> haha
[18:55] <Randomskk> maybe
[18:55] <fsphil> unless you want to setup something temporary for the moment we can point dl-fldigi too? there's a new release coming out soon
[18:55] <jonsowman> that's a good idea ^^
[18:55] <Randomskk> hmm
[18:55] <fsphil> have it redirect to rjh's server
[18:56] <Randomskk> the posting format is going to change for habitat too which will need a new dl-fldigi release but in the meantime we certainly could do
[18:56] <jonsowman> what's in the new release fsphil ?
[18:56] <Randomskk> just post it to a PHP script on nessie that saves to a local file, sends to habitat and sends to robertharrison
[18:56] <jonsowman> Randomskk: better than not doing it imo
[18:56] <fsphil> mostly bug fixes jonsowman, but also updated to the latest upstream fldigi
[18:56] <Randomskk> fsphil: when's the release? I could probably put something together
[18:57] <jonsowman> oh cool
[18:57] <fsphil> there's no schedule
[18:57] <fsphil> I'd like to make sure the merge with upstream hasn't broken anything
[18:57] <fsphil> haven't tested it in anger yet
[18:57] <Randomskk> okay
[18:58] <fsphil> re: the custom shift earlier, we want to do that instead of picking one of the presetsx
[18:58] <fsphil> -x
[18:58] <fsphil> still to do that
[18:58] <jonsowman> i could have sworn somebody told me that bug had been fixed
[18:58] <jonsowman> but james seems to think not
[18:58] <Randomskk> fsphil: any idea how hard it would be to add JSON decoding to dl-fldigi?
[18:58] <Randomskk> vs XML
[18:58] <Randomskk> jonsowman: fairly easy to test?
[18:59] <fsphil> for doing what Randomskk?
[18:59] <jonsowman> can't be bothered to compile
[18:59] <Randomskk> fsphil: habitat
[18:59] <fsphil> afair it still picks the shift from the presets, will double check that
[19:00] <Randomskk> do we use libcurl on dl-fldigi?
[19:00] <fsphil> not sure Randomskk, can't imagine it would be too difficult
[19:00] <fsphil> yea
[19:00] <Randomskk> oh cool
[19:00] <fsphil> that's used to post the data and download the payload xml data
[19:00] <Randomskk> okay I've found json c++ libraries and apparently that plus libcurl is a good way to talk to couch in c++
[19:00] <Randomskk> I might hack on this some time
[19:00] <Randomskk> I just had a wild crazy idea for habitat
[19:00] <Randomskk> basically it involves having dl-fldigi write to the habitat database directly, instead of having habitat run as a web service
[19:01] <Randomskk> but even if we don't do that, dl-fldigi's still gonna need json, I'll have a play.
[19:02] <Randomskk> does dl-fldigi use any Boost lib stuff?
[19:04] <fsphil> don't think so
[19:04] <Randomskk> okay
[19:04] <Randomskk> man, this new idea for posting data could theoretically totally change how habitat scales
[19:05] <fsphil> in saying that, there's a couple of references to it in configure and some of the include fules
[19:05] <Randomskk> hmm
[19:05] <fsphil> files*
[19:05] <Randomskk> I see
[19:05] <Randomskk> well there are a few json libs, some use some boost headers, but there are some that don't
[19:05] <Randomskk> I would like to get habitat actually running asap
[19:05] <Randomskk> best way to make sure it all actually does it stuff :P
[19:06] <Randomskk> web ui definitely needs a kick start too, but we can use the spacenear.us frontend for the time being quite happily
[19:06] <Randomskk> might hack on this tonight actually
[19:06] <Randomskk> busy this weekend I think
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[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj8iKY2V62k
[19:54] <Randomskk> not as good as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyrAkwJ6WsY
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[20:21] <griffonbot> @willduckworth: Balloon project nearly almost there... It's been a while. #ukhas [http://twitter.com/willduckworth/status/99213429151252480]
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[20:34] <jcoxon> evening al
[20:34] <Randomskk> hi
[20:35] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[20:50] <NigeyS> evening james
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[21:10] <Laurenceb_> can someone explain semaphores/mutex
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> not the basics, i get that
[21:10] <edmoore> Randomskk: So lion has decided to be Spanish
[21:10] <Randomskk> I see
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> but im still a bit confused e.g. can i use semaphores to control access to a shared struct from multiple thread without and atmic blocksa
[21:11] <edmoore> Laurenceb: Chibios docs have v thorough explanations
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:11] <edmoore> Both basics and specific imementations and when to use them
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> edmoore: this is for code im rolling myself
[21:11] <NigeyS> jcoxon, updated prediction for picochu-1 http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=213b10025ebce5ad2e3c0c4cad4b0e7ccd6a677b
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> yay finally!
[21:12] <edmoore> Randomskk: Currently falta 7 minutos aproximadamente
[21:12] <Randomskk> that sounds curious
[21:12] <edmoore> I hope I can change it back
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> it's raining!
[21:12] <Randomskk> I imagine you can
[21:12] <edmoore> Oh well if it bricks that just makes my decision easier
[21:13] <Randomskk> haha
[21:14] <edmoore> Randomskk: Do u keep your Linux box on full time or do you have wakeup on LAN?
[21:14] <Randomskk> on full time
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[21:14] <edmoore> Energy prices have gone way up, you see, so am curious about this
[21:14] <Randomskk> I don't pay my own energy, so...
[21:14] <edmoore>
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> I recommend old laptops as 'servers'.
[21:15] <Randomskk> I dunno, I suspect once I do I will spend some amount of effort minimising my energy expenditure
[21:15] <Randomskk> but right now, I keep my desktop on pretty much the whole time.
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> It's getting insame.
[21:15] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: This will be doinglots of crunching too
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:16] <edmoore> Just want it to be minimally consuming when im not using it
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> A watt saved is approaching 2 pounds per year now.
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[21:16] <edmoore> Yup
[21:17] <edmoore> Scary
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> Hence my interest in solar.
[21:17] <edmoore> Wooly jumpers instead of central heating now I think
[21:19] <edmoore> Randomskk: What kind of pc comms / storage capability does you scope have?
[21:20] <Randomskk> USB interface I've never tried (windows software came with it), USB port for memory sticks where it will write waveforms or bitmap screenshots
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> Last winter I had no heating until it got down to 5C inside. Electric blanket ++
[21:20] <edmoore> Ok ta
[21:20] <Randomskk> internal storage is just current capture, so you can scroll and zoom and stuff on it, which is incredibly fantastically useful compared to scopes w/o capture
[21:20] <edmoore> Yes
[21:20] <Randomskk> but it doesn't have internal storage otherwise I don't think (maybe? I've never really looked)
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> This year I have at least one room insulated well enough that I can heat it to 20C delta on 200W
[21:20] <Randomskk> but yea, it can save/load waveforms from USB sticks
[21:21] <edmoore> Just wondering if it will meet my needs
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> I noted with interest a cypress USB3 thingy.
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> Which looks very interesting.
[21:21] <edmoore> Well, someone else's needs for waveform validation
[21:21] <Randomskk> I have no complaints so far, but if you can afford more there are obviously nicer scopes out there
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> It seems that it can be configured to stream data from a ADC at a reasonable rate.
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> (tens of MHz/s)
[21:21] <edmoore> Randomskk: Ok ta
[21:22] <edmoore> Oh lord 33 mins of installation. Cba
[21:22] <Randomskk> hah
[21:22] <jcoxon> evening all again
[21:22] <jcoxon> actually am here now
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[21:22] <edmoore> If I was a bank manager it'd be cheaper to buy an MBA than sit through this
[21:22] <Randomskk> yes
[21:23] <Randomskk> money gets funny when your time is worth a lot more
[21:23] <edmoore> Sadly/luckily, I am not nor will ever be
[21:23] <Randomskk> luckily I think
[21:23] <Randomskk> I had to sit through a three hour meeting with bankies
[21:23] <Randomskk> so awful
[21:23] <edmoore> Well, that's already true in any business
[21:24] <edmoore> Often much cheaper to pay more money for a more comprehensive solution
[21:24] <NigeyS> wb jcoxon
[21:24] <edmoore> It's why every connector you use in a prototype should cost £20+
[21:25] <edmoore> Cos spending 20 mins fixing a dodgy molex means it's cost more
[21:25] <jcoxon> edmoore, you and connectors
[21:26] <edmoore> It's true
[21:26] <edmoore> I will defend it to the death
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:26] <edmoore> All mechatrinics projects live and die by the quality of their connectors
[21:26] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:27] <jcoxon> oh i'm completely with you regarding connectors
[21:28] <edmoore> Lemo or milspec
[21:28] <edmoore> Xlr are very nice too actually
[21:29] <edmoore> Randomskk: Not enough disc space
[21:29] <Randomskk> fail D:
[21:29] <edmoore> Well...ok...I'll set the building on fire
[21:30] <edmoore> Hmm, ok
[21:30] <edmoore> MBA time
[21:31] <edmoore> I still have a student overdraft allowance
[21:31] <edmoore> RESULT
[21:32] <jonsowman> haha
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[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi jonsowman
[21:35] <jonsowman> hi Lunar_Lander
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[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman how is Apex progressing?
[22:00] <jonsowman> not bad, new flight computer in progress by the Sutton team at the moment :)
[22:00] <jonsowman> I'm taking more of a backseat with it these days
[22:00] <jonsowman> more involved in CUSF
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> I read that CUSF is supported by the Atmo Chem department?
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[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> do you know how they support them?
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[23:43] <NigeyS> do b doo
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[23:43] <hibby> indeed
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[23:44] <NigeyS> soldering live on ustream, how sad am i lol
[23:44] <hibby> lol
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[00:00] --- Fri Aug 5 2011