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[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[01:12] <hibby> working hard at putting the skypod data on the wiki
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[02:31] <hibby> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:skypod <== it has the beginnings of a monster sized page.
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[06:31] <SamSilver> Have you tried via RS232 sending ER_CMD#U1 only? Without the ASK attached on the end.
[06:32] <SamSilver> cuddykid: read above
[06:32] <SamSilver> On my way out. Back at keyboard in 6 hrs or so.
[06:32] <SamSilver> afk
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[07:01] <elyptikus> hey everybody...
[07:02] <elyptikus> i have an important question. today i will start my balloon in switzerland.
[07:02] <elyptikus> but now i don't exactly know how much helium i should use.
[07:02] <elyptikus> could somebody help me?
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[07:04] <elyptikus> anyone online?
[07:05] <number10> I am but cant really help apart from this link http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[07:06] <number10> there is a simple fill guide there
[07:13] <elyptikus> merci
[07:15] <number10> I hope it is successful
[07:24] <elyptikus> me too ;)
[07:26] <Darkside> what telemetry payload are you using?
[07:26] <fsphil> I was most worried about filling the balloon too :) it's actually one of the easier bits
[07:31] <Darkside> elyptikus: how are you getting telemetry?
[07:32] <elyptikus> i'm not conected with the ballon during the flight...
[07:32] <Darkside> youdont; know where it is?
[07:32] <elyptikus> i have a TK102 GPS who send me the koordinates
[07:32] <elyptikus> :D
[07:33] <Darkside> that won't work above a few km
[07:33] <elyptikus> and also a radio telemetry antenna which they use to search birds...
[07:34] <Darkside> GPRS trackers won't work above a few km, they won't get good enough phone signal
[07:35] <elyptikus> yes i know... but after it felt down it will work again.
[07:35] <Darkside> yeah
[07:35] <fsphil> the bird tracking antenna is connected to the gsm module?
[07:35] <Darkside> ir probably won't get lock above about 60000 feet either
[07:36] <elyptikus> the antenna isn't connected to the gsm module!
[07:36] <fsphil> ah - so it's a separate little radio?
[07:36] <Darkside> elyptikus: so you have a separate transmitter in there too?
[07:37] <elyptikus> yes! it's a very small antenna
[07:37] <Darkside> what *transmitter* are you using
[07:37] <Darkside> what frequency does it run on
[07:38] <elyptikus> the frequence is 8.8725
[07:38] <elyptikus> or what do you mean?
[07:39] <Darkside> thats weird...
[07:39] <Darkside> do youhave a picture of the small transmitter thats going in the balloon payload?
[07:39] <elyptikus> hmm.. yes i can send you one!
[07:40] <Darkside> upload one to imgur.com
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[07:41] <elyptikus> ok wait
[07:43] <elyptikus> http://i.imgur.com/9UFkU.jpg
[07:43] <Darkside> oookay
[07:43] <Darkside> weird
[07:44] <Darkside> its probably a VHF transmitter
[07:44] <Darkside> do you have any documentation that came with it?
[07:44] <Darkside> depending on how powerful it is, some ofus may be able to hear the transmissions from that from here
[07:44] <elyptikus> no i got it from the "Vogelwarte" i don't think you can hear it there...
[07:45] <elyptikus> they told me the range is maximum 70 kilometers
[07:45] <Darkside> so no documentation on that transmitter?
[07:45] <elyptikus> no because it's not mine... http://vogelwarte.ch/ they gave it to me!
[07:48] <Darkside> elyptikus: the range is mayve 70km when its on the ground, or when its on a bird at a few hundred feet
[07:48] <Darkside> when its on a balloon at 20km altitude, the range is a LOT m
[07:49] <Darkside> re
[07:49] <Darkside> a lot more*
[07:49] <elyptikus> ah ok...
[07:49] <elyptikus> and what does that mean? do you can say from england? where it is?
[07:50] <fsphil> we've received balloons from over 500km away
[07:50] <elyptikus> cool :)
[07:50] <fsphil> though I guess that transmitter is only sending a pulse
[07:51] <elyptikus> yes its just a short tone...
[07:51] <fsphil> someone on the south coast of england might be able to receive it
[07:52] <elyptikus> okay and what woud be the advantage if someone there can receive it?
[07:53] <fsphil> none really :) though if someone there did receive it, you know the altitude was at least 20km or more
[07:54] <elyptikus> :)
[07:55] <fsphil> 173MHz is used for bird tracking in the UK at least - might be an EU standard too I'm not sure
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[07:56] <elyptikus> this project is my maturity work... and i have to be finished in 2 months! if i had more time i would wait for my pressure sensor to measure the altitude.
[07:57] <Darkside> you odnt need a pressure sensor
[07:57] <Darkside> just a good gps
[07:57] <elyptikus> does a gps tracker work at 20'000 m?
[07:57] <fsphil> some do
[07:58] <fsphil> anything with a ublox5/6 chip will work
[07:58] <fsphil> and lassen iq
[07:58] <elyptikus> okay... i have a small gps data logger.. but i don't think it's a very good one...
[07:58] <Darkside> unfortunately most cheap trackers have Sirf III ones in them
[07:58] <elyptikus> i think mine too
[07:59] <Darkside> and Sirf III chips will loose lock around 60000ft
[07:59] <Darkside> or is it lower?
[07:59] <Darkside> i can't remember now
[08:01] <elyptikus> i think if the GPS Tracker won't work, i can search it with my antenna! and if i can't find it i wil go to the pro's from "Vogelwarte" and i think they can help me then
[08:01] <elyptikus> but i have still the problem whit the helium!
[08:01] <fsphil> hopefully your gsm tracker will work
[08:02] <elyptikus> yes :)
[08:02] <fsphil> they seem to work fairly well
[08:02] <fsphil> depends on the landing site though :)
[08:02] <elyptikus> how much helium should i fill into a 800 G ballon?
[08:02] <fsphil> not having live telemetry would make me worry :)
[08:03] <elyptikus> it was to complicated for me and also to expensive :D perhaps on the next flight
[08:03] <fsphil> depends on how heavy the payload is, and how fast you want it to ascend?
[08:03] <elyptikus> my payload is exactly 1000 g
[08:03] <fsphil> aah already planning for the next one
[08:03] <elyptikus> :)
[08:04] <fsphil> http://www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/calc
[08:04] <fsphil> this can work it out
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[08:06] <elyptikus> but if it says 9870 L how much helium do i have to buy? how can i calculate that if the bottles are at 200 bar?
[08:06] <fsphil> 9870 L? that's a bit much
[08:07] <fsphil> put a target burst altitude of 30000m
[08:07] <fsphil> should give: Launch Volume: 2.85 m3 2846 L
[08:08] <elyptikus> ah ok :D
[08:08] <elyptikus> yes that's right
[08:08] <russss> the m^3 volume on these cylinders is at ambient pressure: http://www.boconline.co.uk/images/content_images/products/cylinder_spec_table.jpg
[08:08] <elyptikus> and now can i go to the shop and say i need 2846 liter of helium? they will give me a truck ful of helium :D
[08:08] <russss> (I just noticed it said m^2...)
[08:08] <fsphil> that's a typo russss
[08:09] <russss> yeah, never saw it before
[08:09] <fsphil> the boc.au version says m^3
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[08:11] <elyptikus> okay i go now to buy some helium...
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[08:12] <elyptikus> thank you guys for all the informations!
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[08:21] <Darkside> whenever someone launches without live telemetry i always have the inclination to worry
[08:22] <fsphil> two hours of sitting around waiting on a text message that might not arrive
[08:22] <Darkside> yup
[08:23] <Darkside> and using that bird tracker to find it when its on the ground?
[08:23] <Darkside> thats only gonna work if you know a reasonably good position in the first place
[08:23] <fsphil> indeedy
[08:23] <fsphil> I don't think he's considered that
[08:23] <fsphil> unless the predictor is reasonably accurate
[08:24] <Darkside> i realise now i could probably make a good amount of money selling mininut kits
[08:24] <Darkside> but i don't think i will
[08:24] <Darkside> because it may encourage the wrong sort of people to take up ballooning
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[08:25] <Darkside> anyway, heading off to work
[08:25] <Darkside> back on later.
[08:25] <fsphil> have fun
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[08:31] <Elwell> you mean things are reusable? /troll
[08:31] <number10> I must be going made - playing back recording of Xaben on one pc linked to line input of other and fldigi wonte decode :(
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[08:40] <fsphil> at least you're not going mad
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[09:50] <cuddykid> SamSilver: yeah :(
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[10:30] <cuddykid> no phone calls yet from my helium balloon enterprising lol
[10:31] <rjharrison> did NigelMoby launch this /we
[10:31] <rjharrison> w/e
[10:34] <Darkside> no
[10:34] <Darkside> it'll be next weekend
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[10:54] <rjharrison> thanks DanielRichman
[10:54] <rjharrison> Darkside, even
[10:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9757
[10:59] <Laurenceb> wow thats some stock level
[10:59] <Randomskk> they're tiny, I imagine they get bought in large boxes
[11:00] <Laurenceb> well st now have it in lga14 - same pinout as adxl345
[11:00] <Laurenceb> so i wonder if they dumped the excess inventory on sparkfun
[11:01] <Laurenceb> the sfe breakout is a bit retarded
[11:01] <Laurenceb> 1.8v i2c
[11:01] <Randomskk> that's.. not gonna trigger an arduino's high level, is it
[11:01] <Randomskk> :(
[11:01] <Randomskk> meh just have to buy a sparkfun logic level converter too, then :P
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[11:34] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
[11:37] <elyptikus> I will start my balloon at about 13:00 UTC in Switzerland. The frequency of my transmitter is 8.8725. It is sending short acoustic signals. If somebody is able to locate (@Darkside) can you tell me in the evening if you have located it?
[11:38] <SamSilver> good luck elyptikus
[11:38] <SamSilver> have fun
[11:39] <fsphil> my radio at home doesn't have the HF antenna connected unfortunately
[11:42] <elyptikus> i hope we will enjoy it :)
[11:42] <NigelMoby> I got a free rgb led with my usb tiny order lol
[11:43] <Elwell> elyptikus: what canton?
[11:43] <elyptikus> Lucerne
[11:43] <elyptikus> region Sempachersee
[11:45] <Darkside> the frequency of your transmittter is not 8.8725MHz
[11:45] <Darkside> i highly doubt that
[11:45] <Darkside> elyptikus: can you send us a pic of your receive antenna for that transmitter?
[11:46] <Randomskk> maybe he meant 8.8725Hz
[11:46] <Darkside> no
[11:46] <Randomskk> I hear you can get excellent propagation there.
[11:46] <Darkside> its a bird tracking transmitter
[11:46] <Darkside> :P
[11:46] <Randomskk> haha
[11:46] <Randomskk> I'd love to see the bird that could carry an 8Hz antenna
[11:47] <elyptikus> :D
[11:47] <elyptikus> wait ^^
[11:48] <Darkside> elyptikus: you realise that unless you know a reasonably accurate position of the payload on landing, you're not going to be able to use the other tracker to find the balloon
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[11:48] <elyptikus> http://imgur.com/QirFu
[11:48] <Darkside> depending on how it lands, the coverage of that transmitter will be a few hundred metres at most
[11:49] <Darkside> hmm
[11:49] <Darkside> what is the model number and brand of that receiver
[11:49] <Darkside> i think its quite likely that its only showing the last few digits of the frequency
[11:50] <elyptikus> http://imgur.com/pfG1g
[11:51] <Darkside> FT-290
[11:51] <Darkside> so its probablt 148.8725MHz
[11:52] <Darkside> so you have a yagi antenna to go with that radio?
[11:52] <M0JSN> yeah, same as the FT-790R
[11:53] <Darkside> mmm
[11:53] <M0JSN> yeah the 290 is 2m only so much be 148.8725
[11:53] <Darkside> hmm
[11:53] <M0JSN> *must
[11:53] <Elwell> elyptikus: OK - when are you planning on launching?
[11:53] <Darkside> elyptikus: where is your launch site? can you give is a location on google maps?
[11:53] <elyptikus> at 13:00 UTC in Zell (Lucerne)
[11:54] <elyptikus> http://maps.google.de/maps?q=zell+schweiz&hl=de&sll=51.151786,10.415039&sspn=15.516275,39.243164&z=14
[11:54] <Elwell> ah - if its 2m then I don't have swivelly antenna - if it was longer wavelength I'd use the shack
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> So oe hour?
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> one hour
[11:54] <Darkside> also if you can give us some information about the balloon you are using, we can make a rough prediction of the flight
[11:54] <Elwell> elyptikus: I'm in geneva
[11:55] <Darkside> elyptikus: can you link to exactly where the launch site is? or as close as you are comfortable?
[11:55] <elyptikus> It's a 800 g balloon from Totex
[11:56] <elyptikus> the launch site is somewhere in Zell.. i'm now on the way to there.
[11:57] <Darkside> ok, what burst altitude would that give..
[11:57] <Darkside> maybe 28km?
[11:57] <elyptikus> 27500 m
[11:57] <Darkside> elyptikus: if you fill it exactly to spec
[11:57] <elyptikus> 4000 L of Helium
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> And dependant on the payload.
[11:57] <Darkside> yeah
[11:57] <Darkside> also habhub isnt working :P
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> 4000L sounds unlikely
[11:58] <Darkside> yeah, thats a LOT of helium
[11:58] <SpeedEvil> That will massively overfill the balloon
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> And make it burst 5-10km lower
[11:59] <SpeedEvil> Dependant on payload.
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> Or rather - the ascent rate depends on payload. But if you really load it with ~4Kg, it may burst earlier due to the strain
[12:00] <fsphil> ooh it's a vhf beacon
[12:00] <SpeedEvil> Predictor not loading files for me.
[12:00] <fsphil> that I might be able to try
[12:01] <Darkside> http://projecthorus.org/predict/#!/uuid=aaebb1e62057f5ef6ec229a9688d19d3bd704b52
[12:01] <Randomskk> wait, huh... the projecthorus.org one gets data okay?
[12:02] <fsphil> hmm
[12:02] <Darkside> whats the LOS radius at 20km?
[12:02] <Darkside> we wouldn't hear it in the UK
[12:02] <elyptikus> habhub is workin with me
[12:02] <elyptikus> ok ...
[12:03] <fsphil> 583km apparently
[12:03] <fsphil> http://radarproblems.com/calculators/horizon.htm
[12:03] <Darkside> not long enough
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> Oooh.
[12:04] <fsphil> if it gets to 30km, 714km
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> Circles on the predictor when you clicked a point on the track would be funky
[12:04] <Darkside> ok, not gonna get to the UK
[12:04] <fsphil> I think it might be possible, but only for those on the south coast
[12:04] <fsphil> and a very clear horizon
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[12:06] <fsphil> london to geneva is 200km
[12:06] <Darkside> geneva?
[12:07] <fsphil> er, 325km
[12:07] <Darkside> oh?
[12:07] <fsphil> 200 miles
[12:07] <Darkside> i thought it was more than that
[12:07] <fsphil> so did I
[12:07] <Darkside> what about bath to the preduted high point
[12:07] <fsphil> http://www.freemaptools.com/how-far-is-it-between.htm
[12:07] <fsphil> not sure where that is
[12:07] <Darkside> 917km
[12:08] <Darkside> from bath to zell
[12:08] <Darkside> i think you buggered something up fsphil :P
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> He's just taking into the account his secret 10km antenna pole.
[12:08] <Randomskk> would explain so much
[12:09] <fsphil> probably lol
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[12:09] <Darkside> aaaaanyway, i doubt i'll hear anything from here.
[12:09] <fsphil> here to cambridge is 500km so yea
[12:09] <Darkside> and i doubt that guy will be getting his payload back
[12:09] <NigeyS> phil...
[12:09] <NigeyS> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=4d82550a487899132a1e0c292bed1a58e8ba13b5
[12:09] <NigeyS> :|
[12:10] <Darkside> hey NigeyS, thats not bad
[12:10] <Randomskk> NigeyS: you generated that last night?
[12:10] <Randomskk> I'm so confused, is the predictor working or what
[12:10] <NigeyS> yups
[12:10] <Randomskk> it seems to not be
[12:10] <Randomskk> but then it seems to be
[12:10] <NigeyS> its awful!
[12:10] <Darkside> why?
[12:10] <NigeyS> it goes over every cardiff and newport city centers
[12:10] <NigeyS> not gd idea with foil balloons
[12:10] <Darkside> lol
[12:11] <fsphil> yea, london to geneva is 748km .. not sure what that other site was talking about
[12:11] <Darkside> what are they going to do, fire ze missiles?
[12:11] <NigeyS> Randomskk, it worked once last night, then died when i tried again with a diff ascent rate ... its very up n down
[12:11] <Randomskk> :|
[12:11] <fsphil> I got it going once .. it's very slow
[12:11] Action: Randomskk blames noaa, but hasn't investigated enough to make that a sound blaming
[12:11] <NigeyS> lol Darkside, ya never know
[12:11] <fsphil> but it does load eventually
[12:11] <fsphil> that's not too bad NigeyS
[12:11] <NigeyS> Randomskk, it was doing the same hanging on darksides version aswell so i reckon its def a noaa issue
[12:12] <Randomskk> uhm, going right over two cities?
[12:12] <Darkside> those foil balloons wouldn't have enough radar cross section to show up on anything
[12:12] <fsphil> Cardiff isn't that big ;)
[12:12] <NigeyS> no, but we dont know what alt they will get..
[12:13] <Randomskk> I think it's probably more a concern if they do anything unexpected, like burst, or break, or something goes wrong, or there are planes flying about the airports
[12:13] <NigeyS> cardiffs tiny :P
[12:13] <Randomskk> does cardiff even have an airport >_>
[12:13] <NigeyS> yeah but its in barry...lol
[12:13] <Darkside> hmm, is the CRC we use for balloons the standard CCITT CRC16?
[12:13] <Randomskk> uhm
[12:13] <Randomskk> so
[12:13] <Randomskk> "standard"
[12:13] <Randomskk> doesn't actually mean anything useful here
[12:14] <NigeyS> my concern is what Randomskk mentioned, unpredictable nature of the foils make me want to avoid cities, and motorways :D
[12:14] <Randomskk> the CRC we use is a 16 bit CRC with polynomial 1021, initial value 0xffff
[12:14] <Randomskk> which is commonly called CCITT!
[12:14] <fsphil> you still have a good few days before NigeyS, they prediction will likely change
[12:14] <Randomskk> sometimes it's called ccitt-false
[12:14] <Randomskk> sometimes it's called xmodem (what the hell, avr-libc, are you doing)
[12:14] <Randomskk> (it's not xmodem, just avr-libc is stupid)
[12:15] <NigeyS> fsphil, hopefully, im happier with the wind direction, i could just go further west and launch and get it to overfly the brecon beacons as opposed to the cities
[12:15] <Randomskk> the important parts are the polynomial and the starting value though
[12:15] <Darkside> also, does the avr libs use a lookup table
[12:15] <Darkside> or do they calculate it on the fly
[12:15] <Randomskk> I don't actually know, but I don't think so
[12:15] <Darkside> because i DO NOT want a lookup table
[12:15] <Randomskk> 16 bit crc is not too hard to calc on the fly
[12:15] <Randomskk> why not?
[12:15] <Darkside> reason: lookup table corruption
[12:15] <Randomskk> ah
[12:15] <NigeyS> somewhere like porthcawl or camarthern
[12:15] <Randomskk> space
[12:15] <Randomskk> right
[12:15] <Darkside> Randomskk: yep
[12:15] <Randomskk> NigeyS: have a heck of a time recovering it from the middle of the brecon beacons though :P
[12:16] <Darkside> i'm already considering putting my code through FEC
[12:16] <Randomskk> Darkside: if not you can always implement it yourself, but I guess check first
[12:16] <NigeyS> its 1 way, not meant to be recovered
[12:16] <Randomskk> ah fair enough
[12:16] <Darkside> and writing a tiny bootloader to extract the code
[12:16] <NigeyS> be nice if i could but that was the aim of the payload, cheap parts etc for a "disposable" launch
[12:17] <WillDuckworth> NigeyS - predicted to land near me at mo - might meet you there!
[12:17] <NigeyS> haha pick it up for me :D :P
[12:17] <NigeyS> i forgot you were close by, you're near to hereford right ?
[12:18] <Darkside> Randomskk: its not using a lookup table
[12:18] <Darkside> its optimized assembly code
[12:18] <WillDuckworth> yeah - ledbury was my launch site, live in Worcester (near cuddykid actually)
[12:18] <Darkside> :D
[12:18] <Randomskk> there you go then
[12:18] <NigeyS> aha i remember now, if ure available for tracking on the weekend thatd be cool to :D
[12:18] <WillDuckworth> defo, more the merrier
[12:18] <NigeyS> gonna send Darkside up the beacons with a yagi and a 20ft pole ;) :p
[12:19] <Darkside> WillDuckworth: want to give us transport?
[12:19] <Darkside> :P
[12:19] <fsphil> lookup tables are silly on avr chips -- no room :)
[12:19] <Darkside> fsphil: its stored in flash
[12:19] <Darkside> and we have 256k of that
[12:19] <WillDuckworth> get the aussie lost in the hills with the SAS eh?
[12:19] <Darkside> WillDuckworth: :D
[12:19] <fsphil> ooh loads
[12:19] <NigeyS> yup, he'll find his way out.. eventually...
[12:19] <Darkside> i want to see the UK countryside somehow
[12:19] <fsphil> cows!
[12:19] <NigeyS> you'd love the brecon beacons
[12:19] <GW8RAK> sheep
[12:19] <NigeyS> sheeeeeeepies
[12:19] <fsphil> oh yea, wales
[12:19] <NigeyS> lol oi!
[12:20] <Darkside> brecon beacons?
[12:20] <GW8RAK> And Gogs up here
[12:20] <NigeyS> big mountain region in mid wales
[12:20] <fsphil> still tempted to stop by wales on the way to london
[12:20] <GW8RAK> Typical south wales guy thinking the beacons are in mid Wales.
[12:20] <GW8RAK> :)
[12:21] <NigeyS> well, theyre north of me, so .. lol
[12:21] <Randomskk> wales is all rainy and shit, come to cambridge, see the fen :|
[12:21] <fsphil> it's the only part of the UK I've not been in
[12:21] <NigeyS> http://www.youtube.com/thenigeyuk#p/u/6/7oPsKTcM96o
[12:21] <Randomskk> it's like flat and marshy and really boring
[12:21] <NigeyS> sheep!
[12:21] <NigeyS> £50 for Darkside if he can guess what those transmitters are for :p
[12:21] <GW8RAK> Cambridge is nice, but after living there, I've had enough of it.
[12:22] <Darkside> ooh
[12:22] <Darkside> what is that
[12:22] <NigeyS> a hill just outside cardiff
[12:22] <NigeyS> think the xmitters are DTV
[12:23] <NigeyS> 3 of them.. theyre bloody huge, and lots of powerlines, so cant launch there :(
[12:23] <fsphil> There's a transmitter tower on the local mountain here, but I've no idea what it does
[12:23] <fsphil> it's not TV or radio
[12:23] <NigeyS> oh?
[12:23] <NigeyS> military maybe ?
[12:23] <fsphil> possibly
[12:24] <NigeyS> i like the wenvoe xmitter
[12:24] <fsphil> it's got quite a lot of antennas on it
[12:24] <NigeyS> its huge
[12:24] <NigeyS> sommit like 200m
[12:24] <fsphil> lots of yagi antennas, and microwave thingys
[12:24] <fsphil> that is big
[12:24] <NigeyS> yagis .. hmm .. prolly is military then, theres still a ton of troops over there
[12:25] <fsphil> not so many these days
[12:25] <fsphil> though the tower is very old
[12:26] <NigeyS> climb up and stick a yagi up there ;)
[12:26] <fsphil> it's had some recent work done to it
[12:26] <NigeyS> no1 will know
[12:26] <fsphil> if I knew who run it, I'd like to get a webcam onto it :)
[12:26] <NigeyS> that'd be cool
[12:26] <NigeyS> how high you think it is ?
[12:27] <fsphil> difficult to guess, probably 100m
[12:27] <NigeyS> oo a hefty size then
[12:27] <fsphil> it can be seen clearly from the town here, about 10km away
[12:27] <NigeyS> :o
[12:27] <fsphil> I've got some pictures of it, must dig it out
[12:28] <Darkside> street view?
[12:29] <NigeyS> http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=wenvoe+xmitter&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=LOu&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1440&bih=806&tbm=isch&prmd=ivns&tbnid=J_gGq8T_NBDQvM:&imgrefurl=http://www.mds975.co.uk/masts/wenvoe.html&docid=pufpuMPaXLDRNM&w=719&h=1489&ei=tO03Trb7EMnvsgb79NUt&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=343&page=1&tbnh=175&tbnw=89&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0&tx=43&ty=88
[12:29] <NigeyS> there's wenvoe
[12:30] <GW8RAK> There is a website where people have photographed masts and then list all the aerials on it. Very geeky.
[12:30] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: how's payload progressing?
[12:30] <NigeyS> GW8RAK, seriously? :|
[12:30] <WillDuckworth> not bad thanks, shall post some piccies later this evening...
[12:31] <WillDuckworth> decided to ditch the sstv stuff on this launch, just couldn't get it working fully :(
[12:31] <WillDuckworth> so added another camera instead
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> :/
[12:31] <GW8RAK> Yes, I was just trying to find it for the local mast, Moel y Parc.
[12:31] <GW8RAK> Can't find it though.
[12:32] <NigeyS> :(
[12:32] <NigeyS> what's the famous 1 in bristol ?
[12:32] <NigeyS> mendip ?
[12:32] <GW8RAK> http://www.thebigtower.com/live/Moel/51P29000305021.htm will have to do.
[12:32] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: oh cool! when do you think you'll be launching? Got until Fri here (but I presume you'll be working until then!)
[12:32] <GW8RAK> 240m high and the base is at 340m
[12:33] <NigeyS> crikey
[12:33] <NigeyS> whats that white looking thing?
[12:33] <WillDuckworth> well, cuddykid, got a few days off..... so possible friday? not sure
[12:33] <WillDuckworth> if not, might look at a trip to EARS
[12:33] <GW8RAK> NigeyS, don't know. Some sort of phased array?
[12:33] <cuddykid> oh right! yeah, could do this week
[12:34] <cuddykid> have you got the gas?
[12:34] <WillDuckworth> yep :)
[12:34] <NigeyS> not sure, looks weird though, lots of iccle quare things in a circle :|
[12:34] <cuddykid> good stuff
[12:34] <cuddykid> did you get the T size canister?
[12:34] <GW8RAK> 250KW going up the mast for TV transmissions
[12:34] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a beam-hovering UAV.
[12:35] <WillDuckworth> yeah, the same as you cuddykid, have you got a new balloon yet?
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if doing that is actually illegal.
[12:35] <cuddykid> cool, payed Rocketboy yesterday so waiting for delivery
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> 'I have a TV licence - look'
[12:36] <NigeyS> GW8RAK, just a small amount of power then hehe
[12:36] <cuddykid> still got these radios to sort out though - going to phone the tech line in a bit! lol
[12:36] <GW8RAK> You should see the coax they use at those powers.
[12:36] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, thats a neat idea :p
[12:36] <NigeyS> GW8RAK, rather thick i take it?
[12:37] <SpeedEvil> More in common with water pipe than coax.
[12:37] <GW8RAK> 60mm o.d, outer, 25mm o.d outer, polythene spacer and filled with dry N2.
[12:38] <NigeyS> bloody hell
[12:38] <GW8RAK> Conductors are ribbed copper.
[12:38] <NigeyS> why the n2 ?
[12:38] <GW8RAK> Enhances your pleasure.
[12:38] <NigeyS> ooerr mr lol
[12:38] <GW8RAK> Of the TV, I mean.
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> I was on the verge of buying some hardline in order to connect up my sky dish at 20m away.
[12:38] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, not cheap ?
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> As I was doing the sums for the actual satellite frequency.
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> Not that terrible, surprisingly.
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[12:39] <NigeyS> that is a surprise tbh
[12:39] <SpeedEvil> 'Ow' - rather than completely impossible.
[12:39] <NigeyS> lol!
[12:40] <NigeyS> wonder if they get the gypsies trying to nick that cable off the towers
[12:40] <fsphil> I pity the fool that tries to steal this stuff if it's live
[12:41] <NigeyS> lol you'd think it'd put them off, doesnt stop them trying to steal the cable from the live railway lines down here.. idiots
[12:41] <cuddykid> habhub predictor still down?!
[12:41] <cuddykid> :(
[12:42] <Upu> thats odd
[12:42] <cuddykid> stuck at 10%
[12:42] <NigeyS> cuddykid, think its a bit hit n miss, worked ok last night for a bit
[12:43] <NigeyS> ello Upu
[12:43] <cuddykid> ahh ok, will try in a bit
[12:43] <Upu> hi NigelMoby
[12:43] <NigeyS> Upu, any new date for ava yet ?
[12:43] <Upu> nah
[12:43] <NigeyS> :(
[12:43] <Upu> busy for the next few weekends
[12:43] <Upu> need to speak to people, get a NOTAM etc
[12:44] <NigeyS> oh i see
[12:44] <Upu> try http://habhub.org/predict
[12:45] <Upu> thats odd
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> http://b3ta.com/questions/consumption/post1302946
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> Related post is related.
[12:48] <NigeyS> jealous!
[12:49] <NigeyS> and whats that about concordes successor :|
[12:49] <daveake_> The only time I've been on a Concorde, it was on the ground as an exhibit :(
[12:50] <NigeyS> meh :(
[12:51] <fsphil> I've never even seen one
[12:51] <NigeyS> ive seen it, when i was err... 14 i think
[12:51] <NigeyS> or should that be i "felt" it
[12:52] <fsphil> aaah, the sonic boom?
[12:52] <NigeyS> indeedy
[12:52] <NigeyS> dont you find it weird though
[12:53] <NigeyS> we seem to be going backwards in certain things
[12:53] <NigeyS> no more shuttle, concorde ...
[12:53] Action: LazyLeopard went to school under the Heathrow west-bound exit flight-path, and has lived for 30+ years under one of Heathrow's in-bound stacks...
[12:53] <s-taylo> Both are examples of technically impressive technology that got the economics entirely wrong.
[12:53] <NigeyS> only the 2 greatest engineering triumphs of mankind .. no big deal hehe
[12:54] <NigeyS> LazyLeopard, ear plugs?
[12:54] <NigeyS> s-taylo, couldnt agree more
[12:54] <fsphil> there's a lot of transatlantic flights that travel overhead here, but they're really high up
[12:55] <fsphil> some of them may even have been concord at one time
[12:55] <LazyLeopard> NigeyS: Not quite that close, but it was loud. ;)
[12:55] <NigeyS> hehe
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> I heard it once.
[12:56] <NigeyS> phil, i see alot of planes overhead here, but guessing theyre not transatlantic
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> On the final flight up the coast of scotland.
[12:56] <Randomskk> I used to go to school by it too, we all ran outside for the last flight. ._.
[12:56] <LazyLeopard> Concorde normally headed for the Bristol Channel and then opened the throttles...
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> A low rumble lasting quite a while.
[12:56] <NigeyS> tell you what is loud..
[12:56] <NigeyS> the tornados @ 500ft on a practice bombing run
[12:56] <NigeyS> above aberthaw .. crazy stuff
[13:00] <edmoore> hello
[13:02] <SamSilver> afternoon
[13:03] <fsphil> NigeyS, these are usually travelling east -- there are no airports to the west of here
[13:03] <fsphil> well there's one to the north west
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[13:24] <NigeyS> hmm
[13:31] <NigeyS> better get this usbtiny soldered up :/
[13:33] <number10_> i spose you'v all seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k4Xk1mEwmI
[13:34] <edmoore> yes
[13:34] <edmoore> scary
[13:35] <number10_> dont fancy that!
[13:39] <Laurenceb> thats nuts
[13:39] <Laurenceb> i hope its powered down
[13:41] <NigeyS> wow thats mighty high
[13:41] <russss> yeah that video is quite terrifying
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[13:42] <NigeyS> no safety line :|
[13:46] <hibby> NigeyS: started work on a skypod page
[13:46] <fsphil> what is it? (can't watch it, at work)
[13:46] <hibby> on the wiki
[13:46] <NigeyS> ahh nice 1 hibby ill take a look :D
[13:46] <hibby> its going to be a total monster when its done
[13:47] <NigeyS> fsphil, its 2 repair guys climbing on top of a 1700ft antenna
[13:47] <fsphil> aaah
[13:47] <fsphil> think I've seen that
[13:47] <russss> yeah it's been around a while
[13:47] <NigeyS> hibby, i can see that, from the zip file, alot of useful data though !
[13:47] <hibby> itll be at projects:skypod or someting. me can't be rememberin' now, an ting.
[13:47] <NigeyS> how can any human being climb that and NOT be scared ? :|
[13:48] <hibby> theres a bit about the maths of wire cut downs...
[13:48] <NigeyS> awsome, i was going to ask if you had any pics / schematics for the cutdownn itself ?
[13:48] <hibby> check el wiki
[13:48] <hibby> i.missed out the maths
[13:49] <hibby> but effetively 3.3v drew .5A
[13:49] <hibby> and got up to ~500C
[13:49] <hibby> and took 9s to burn through
[13:49] <hibby> it was kept physically separate from the rest of the electronics using a relay
[13:49] <NigeyS> ah right
[13:50] <hibby> and there are nice diagrams of positioning.
[13:50] <NigeyS> yup, saw those, well documented!
[13:50] <hibby> their thesis is more detailed.
[13:51] <edmoore> hibby: link?
[13:51] <edmoore> to skypod
[13:51] <hibby> they'e got a website at www.sunset-skyood.co.uk
[13:51] <hibby> but thats scheduled for deletion
[13:52] <hibby> so im movibg it to our wiki
[13:52] <M0JSN> 503
[13:52] <hibby> *moving
[13:52] <hibby> as the data is too useful
[13:52] <hibby> dammi
[13:52] <M0JSN> oh
[13:52] <M0JSN> http://www.sunset-skypod.co.uk/
[13:52] <hibby> sunset-skypod.co.uk
[13:52] <hibby> tablets are terrible for lots of typings
[13:53] <hibby> thw design and analysis sections are great
[13:53] <hibby> analysis moreso as its data ive not seen in relation to ukhas before.
[13:54] <hibby> graphs of things like pressure derived altitude vs gps altitude
[13:54] <hibby> so you can see the calibraton /measurement error of the sesnor at high altitudes
[13:54] <hibby> it gets very noticable.
[13:57] <cuddykid> on phone with the tech guy at easyradio - appears I've found a bug in his code! typical
[13:57] <hibby> wiki page is looking like
[13:57] <hibby> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:skypod
[13:58] <NigeyS> dam hibby you have been busy
[13:58] <hibby> :)
[13:59] <hibby> i dont know if it gives too much away and makes the hobby too easy, though :p
[13:59] <daveake_> cuddykid - not so easy then!
[14:00] <NigeyS> lol nah
[14:00] <hibby> i felt the balloon selection process was importand
[14:00] <hibby> as with the big shout out to random engineering :)
[14:00] <daveake_> Not good when they make stuff more difficult not less!
[14:00] <cuddykid> indeed lol
[14:01] <NigeyS> cuddykid, tell easyradio you require free samples to test their buggy code ;)
[14:02] <cuddykid> they are free samples lol
[14:02] <hibby> success
[14:02] <edmoore> it's been too simple for ages
[14:03] Action: edmoore puts on a beard and wooden leg
[14:03] <edmoore> back in my day, we didn't have any of this disteributed listener and rtty nonsense
[14:03] <edmoore> or flight prediction
[14:03] <M0JSN> beard suits you
[14:03] <M0JSN> :P
[14:04] <NigeyS> no dlfdigi for tracking? :|
[14:04] <edmoore> nope
[14:04] <NigeyS> wow cant imagine doing a launch without it :|
[14:04] <edmoore> it was a random bit of c code to decode the radio
[14:04] <edmoore> and one radio listening to it
[14:04] <NigeyS> how things change!
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[14:04] <edmoore> zackly
[14:04] <hibby> You have a women's HAB, my lord!
[14:05] <edmoore> when men were men we decoded rtty by ear
[14:05] <NigeyS> M0JSN, probably looking at Aug 20th for ATS-1
[14:05] <fsphil> haha
[14:05] <hibby> </blackadder>
[14:05] <cuddykid> right, so yeah, spoke to the guy that's written the firmware for the easy radio and then he goes.. let me check.. oh, appears you have found a bug lol
[14:05] <edmoore> but yep, things like landing predictor and DL didn't exist until we invented them, and that was round about Nova 8
[14:06] <M0JSN> NigeyS: that should be fine, Randomskk, you around then?
[14:06] <fsphil> who's idea was the predictor
[14:06] <edmoore> cusf
[14:06] <NigeyS> so you had no idea on flight path ?
[14:06] <cuddykid> but he cleared things up - the rate I was trying to change wasn't actually the rate it operates wirelessly on
[14:06] <NigeyS> other than very rough ..
[14:06] <edmoore> we had a colour-map of the jet stream from wunderground
[14:06] <NigeyS> :o
[14:06] <edmoore> we would say 'it's a sort of shade of pink that looks ok. but 10 hours later it's a bit more yellow. let's launch in pink'
[14:06] <NigeyS> cuddykid, eek !
[14:07] <fsphil> cuddykid, the line rate (between radio and PC?)
[14:07] <edmoore> we lost a few to the sea back in those days
[14:07] <cuddykid> fsphil, yeah
[14:07] <Randomskk> haha fantastic
[14:07] <fsphil> you've actually got three baud rates going
[14:07] <hibby> hahah
[14:07] <NigeyS> lol i can imagine
[14:07] <Randomskk> M0JSN: aug 20?
[14:07] <cuddykid> yep
[14:07] <M0JSN> Randomskk: yep
[14:07] <M0JSN> saturday
[14:07] <hibby> doctor who starts again soon!
[14:07] <Randomskk> hmm that, hmm, what time?
[14:07] <fsphil> woo-hoo!
[14:07] <M0JSN> NigeyS: ^^ ?
[14:07] <Randomskk> hibby: do you have the date off the top of your head?
[14:07] <Randomskk> while I have my calendar open I should put it in :P
[14:08] <hibby> 27h mabe?
[14:08] <NigeyS> umm.. not sure yet, probably 12ish ?
[14:08] <edmoore> oh exciting (dr who)
[14:08] <Randomskk> so my parents are away that fri/sat and I may/may not need to be home to do homekeeping crap, but I'm not sure
[14:08] <cuddykid> interestingly though, he said that in tests they were getting very similar range at 25khz spacing at 4800bps and 12.5khz spacing at 2400bps - have a feeling I won't be getting much range out of them!
[14:08] <Randomskk> man, I can't wait for more dr who
[14:08] <hibby> thats possibly the bbc america date.
[14:08] <Randomskk> but also sherlock!
[14:08] <Randomskk> can't believe they rebroadcast series 1 at the same time as they released it last year
[14:08] <M0JSN> Randomskk: we'll be back by the evening
[14:08] <Randomskk> for a tiny while I was /so excited/
[14:08] <hibby> oh, sherlock, hell yeah.
[14:08] <daveake_> Can't wait for Sherlock!
[14:08] <edmoore> but yep nova 1 was morse and it jsut flew wherever it flew and thankfully the car had a sunroof so you could hold a yagi out the top as you charged around east anglia
[14:08] <Randomskk> then I was like "what this is series one again, what, what, D':"
[14:08] <edmoore> just trying to stay underneath it
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[14:09] <NigeyS> lol ed!!
[14:09] <Randomskk> M0JSN: I should be fine for the day, then, yes
[14:09] <hibby> Hijack of topic successful :)
[14:09] <M0JSN> righto
[14:09] <M0JSN> NigeyS: should be fine but will confirm this evening
[14:09] <fsphil> I missed Sherlock the first time - watching the reuns atm
[14:09] <fsphil> reruns*
[14:09] <fsphil> it's brilliant
[14:09] <daveake_> yep
[14:09] <NigeyS> M0JSN, excellent :D
[14:10] <NigeyS> M0JSN, afaik Darkside is coming to
[14:10] <fsphil> ATS launching?
[14:10] <edmoore> NigeyS: we did some really crazy stuff back with the early novas
[14:10] <edmoore> before we realised it was dangerous
[14:10] <edmoore> rockoons, mortar-deployed parachutes, funny truss-boom constructions
[14:11] <NigeyS> mortars? :o omg .. lol
[14:11] <NigeyS> fsphil, yups :D
[14:11] <NigeyS> and i think mini-nut is piggybacking to
[14:11] <hibby> http://www.flickr.com/photos/djhibby/sets/72157627212668349/ <== my highlights of maker faire.
[14:12] <hibby> some white star mini balloon in there
[14:13] <NigeyS> oo nicey
[14:14] <hibby> it went up and down - constant leak and ballast drop
[14:14] <hibby> nicely done wee thing.
[14:15] <fsphil> seen a video clip of the ballast drop
[14:15] <NigeyS> how did the bb's perform, any jams ?
[14:15] <fsphil> brilliant
[14:15] <edmoore> NigeyS: http://www.youtube.com/user/danstrange2000#p/u/3/o83gloSfpgw
[14:15] <edmoore> this had both a rockoon and parachute mortars
[14:15] <hibby> jams sorted themselves out over time
[14:16] <edmoore> you are looking down, that tube contains a rockoon
[14:16] <NigeyS> haha that payload looks mental!
[14:16] <hibby> only dropped ballast below half way up too.
[14:16] <edmoore> splayed out are 3 mortar-launched parachutes to bring it down like an apollo capsule
[14:16] <fsphil> how well did the rockoon work?
[14:16] <Laurenceb> edmoore: i was thinking about rockoons, why not a cutdown luncher with huge fins
[14:16] <edmoore> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/images/FEAModel.jpg
[14:16] <Laurenceb> ie the launch platform cuts down from the balloon
[14:16] <edmoore> NigeyS: that was what it looked like ^
[14:17] <Laurenceb> and the fins stabilise it for launch
[14:17] <Laurenceb> - bit polythene film fins
[14:17] <edmoore> so the camera was embedded in the big air break there
[14:17] <edmoore> brake*
[14:17] <NigeyS> ahh that makes sense
[14:17] <edmoore> and the chute mortars are on the diagonals
[14:17] <Laurenceb> - for a spin stabilised rockoon
[14:17] <edmoore> and the avionics in the box at the bottom
[14:18] <edmoore> Laurenceb: diagram
[14:18] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:18] <edmoore> NigeyS: spectacular failure
[14:18] <NigeyS> oh dear, howcome ?
[14:18] <edmoore> rockoon didn't ignite (duff igniter) and the parachute cluster entangled itself
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[14:18] <Laurenceb> think your penetrator but scaled up 10 times and using polythene film and some sort of CF tube spaceframe
[14:19] <NigeyS> yikes, that qualifies as spectacular!
[14:19] <Laurenceb> then a spinup system with rockoon on the bottom
[14:19] Action: hibby injects innuendo
[14:19] <edmoore> this was 2007 and needless to say I know a bit more about parachutes now! it's laughably stupid looking back
[14:19] <NigeyS> hehe live and learn :)
[14:19] <edmoore> zackly
[14:19] <edmoore> andf lots of fun to make
[14:20] <edmoore> it was soon after we started just flying more simple boxes and shifted attention more to rockets
[14:20] <Zuph> Morning, #highaltitude
[14:20] <NigeyS> morning Brad
[14:20] <hibby> morning dood
[14:20] <NigeyS> edmoore, on average how successful are rockoons ?
[14:20] <Zuph> How's it going round these parts?
[14:20] <NigeyS> or is that Q loaded with ifs, and buts ?
[14:20] <edmoore> NigeyS: they are barely ever flown
[14:21] <hibby> nae bad. hows it going in luaville?
[14:21] <edmoore> van allen (him of belt fame) flew some in the 60s
[14:21] <NigeyS> :o
[14:21] <edmoore> or maybe it was 50s
[14:21] <edmoore> but they've not really been developed
[14:21] <NigeyS> they are just to hard, or lack of interest in general you think ?
[14:23] <edmoore> both
[14:23] <edmoore> only recently has electronics allowed you to do light enough avionics to make them possible with weather balloons
[14:24] <NigeyS> true, things are getting tinier and lighter
[14:24] <edmoore> but they don't make much sense at a small scale
[14:24] <fsphil> why don't more amateur rockets get above 100km?
[14:24] <fsphil> been wondering this for a whiel
[14:24] <fsphil> while*
[14:24] <hibby> its quite hard?
[14:25] <fsphil> even the ancient V-2 could get well above 100km
[14:25] <Zuph> hibby: Cleaning day 'round the office, so not much fun at all.
[14:25] <hibby> look at the trouble spacex have getting things up.
[14:25] <fsphil> those are really big though
[14:25] <fsphil> for something like a 1kg payload
[14:25] <hibby> innuendo++
[14:26] <edmoore> fsphil: size
[14:26] <edmoore> it just takes lots of energy to get there
[14:26] <edmoore> that means lots of fuel
[14:26] <edmoore> we're also at the wrong end of the cube-square law down here
[14:26] <edmoore> drag plays a much larger role
[14:27] <edmoore> electronics has miniaturised but energy density of solid fuel has remained the same
[14:27] <fsphil> size yea.. the V-2 is a bit bigger than I thought actually. 14m long
[14:27] <edmoore> we want to do a rockoon for exactly this reason
[14:27] <edmoore> you want to beat drag
[14:27] <Zuph> A lot of amateurs are using fuels that aren't the most energy dense, also.
[14:27] <edmoore> true that
[14:28] <edmoore> but ISP seems to correlate with danger/inconvenience
[14:28] <Zuph> These guys are just daft, IMO: http://sugarshot.org/
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> To an extent, yes.
[14:28] <edmoore> eg hydrazine or liquid hydrogen
[14:28] <Zuph> edmoore: very true.
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> Though storability is another axes.
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> Hydrazine is only sane if you absopositively have to store it for 3 years
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> An Hydrogen is almost never sane for smaller vehicles.
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> As the sectional density penalty is horrible.
[14:29] <edmoore> also you need a lot of hardware to do biprop engines
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[14:29] <edmoore> and that doesn't scale down well - cube-square law again
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Well... To a degree.
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[14:29] <SpeedEvil> If you can get shiny stuff - it does.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> Where shiny = hard to do
[14:30] <Zuph> Some amateurs are doing some neat stuff with hybrid rockets.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> For example - Ir/Rh alloy
[14:30] <edmoore> yep
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> It makes rocket engines a doddle.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> You can just radiation cool the whole thing.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> The downside is that it's more expensive than platinum.
[14:30] <russss> heh
[14:31] <fsphil> I knew I should have listened in Chemistry class
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> I did some tests on electroforming small engines.
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> It seemed very possible.
[14:31] <Zuph> fsphil: You and me both :-p
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> Small regeneratively cooled engines.
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> H2O2/alcohol.
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> With the H2O2 decomposition providing pressurants in the tanks.
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> If you're willing to start with the point of view that you're going to have to live with staging, it makes things rather more tractable.
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> Of course - the source of 98% H2O2 folded, which makes things considerably more annoying.
[14:34] <Zuph> 98% H2O2 is kinda scary, though.
[14:35] <Zuph> Scarier than, Laughing Gas and roofing pitch, anyway :-p
[14:35] <edmoore> Zuph: i know someone doing some really interesting hybrid stuff
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: It depends.
[14:35] <edmoore> co-axial hybrids, where the nox sits in a jacket around the combustion chamber
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: It's a hell of a lot safer than other propellants.
[14:36] <edmoore> heat transfer from combustion back into the NOx, keeping a much more steady thrust profile
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: Does it have issues - yes.
[14:37] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: But it's a propellant that you can spill on your hands. And as long as you wash it off promptly all that happens is you get a nasty skin condition.
[14:37] <edmoore> it also makes the hybrid shorter, so you can vector it more easily
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> It does have nasty properties - cloth/leather can catch fire in fairly short order.
[14:38] <Zuph> edmoore: That does sound really interesting.
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> But it's more benign than most rocketry substances.
[14:39] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about doing biprop that way
[14:39] <edmoore> coaxially?
[14:39] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: Fair enough, but I thought we were talking Amateurs. The amateurs I know, anyway, shouldn't be allowed near the stuff.
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> nozzle+chamber in one propellant tank.
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> Bladder in propellant tank contains other propellant
[14:40] <edmoore> you need two propellant tanks in a bitprop though
[14:40] <edmoore> oh i see
[14:40] <edmoore> not sure what the point would be
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> Maybe simplify construction.
[14:40] <edmoore> you don't get the heat flux advantages
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> I know.
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> The heat loads are much less well managed
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure that the leibenfrost(sp) effect won't completely unwet the chamber
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> Added to the obvious issues when it gets lower on fuel.
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[14:46] Action: Laurenceb cant be bothered to read the scrollback
[14:46] <Laurenceb> rockets?
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[14:47] <Zuph> There was a nice Beagleboard booth at Makerfaire, makes me want to buy one.
[14:47] <hibby> yeah
[14:47] <hibby> those thibgs look sweet
[14:47] <hibby> typing on a tablet is like speaking with a cold...
[14:48] <edmoore> Zuph: yeah they look cute don't they
[14:48] <edmoore> the only problem i found was that the omap chips run pretty hot
[14:49] <edmoore> though this is only a problem if you're thinking what i'm thinking
[14:49] <Zuph> That's not too surprising.
[14:49] <Zuph> heh, Balloon borne applications? :-p
[14:49] <hibby> http://www.rarcpio.net/beaglebrick/main.html
[14:49] <hibby> shame rhat project is dormant
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> Seen the pandaboard zuph?
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> Beagleboard on steroids.
[14:50] <Laurenceb> running linux?
[14:50] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: Aye, not much more expensive, either.
[14:50] <Zuph> Laurenceb: Yeah, usually.
[14:50] <Laurenceb> otherwise tbh i dont see the point
[14:50] <Laurenceb> and df3120 can run linux
[14:51] <Laurenceb> tho its smps sucks
[14:51] <hibby> the beagleboards they had at thenweekend were clock rate ++
[14:51] <hibby> running angstrom linux
[14:51] <Laurenceb> i see
[14:51] <Zuph> Same/similar processor used in a lot of smartphones and some set-top boxes (among other things)
[14:51] <hibby> doing some cool multi screen video work
[14:51] <hibby> sadly, the video was precut into the different screens
[14:52] <Zuph> They had 6 of them in a cluster playing clips from the new Harry Potter film across 6 monitors.
[14:52] <Zuph> Was it?
[14:52] <Zuph> that's a shame.
[14:52] <Zuph> Still, they had to be doing some keyframe syncing, or something.
[14:52] <hibby> so the.demo was 6 boards network syncing video playback
[14:52] <hibby> nothing more,.really
[14:52] <Zuph> bah
[14:52] <Zuph> That's less impressive
[14:52] <Zuph> The rep wasn't at the booth when I stopped by
[14:53] <Zuph> Of course, I'm really interested in this guy http://www.raspberrypi.org/
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[14:53] <hibby> lol
[14:53] <Zuph> (Hoping it won't be vapor-ware. Vainly hoping)
[14:55] <edmoore> yeah i'm interested in that too
[14:55] <edmoore> and hawkboard for hab
[14:55] <Laurenceb> but what is it good for?
[14:55] Action: Laurenceb doesnt really follow
[14:55] <edmoore> but there was a hardware bug and recall last i looked
[14:56] <Laurenceb> i mean it has video out
[14:56] <Laurenceb> but so does my pc
[14:56] <Laurenceb> pic32 eval board is more useful for real world jobs
[14:56] <fsphil> typical video out on a PC is rubbish
[14:57] <hibby> bifferboard for hab
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if the HDMI port can be used for GPIO
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> Otherwise, I'm not so interested.
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> (raspberry)
[14:57] <hibby> that should handle sstv/etc easily.
[14:57] <Laurenceb> well yeah
[14:57] <Laurenceb> these things are built around video
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> If so - it's a really handy form factor.
[14:57] <Laurenceb> thats useless for control and interface
[14:58] <hibby> bifferboard is just a small x86 machine runninf debian
[14:59] <Laurenceb> ooh bifferboard is interesting
[14:59] <Laurenceb> much smaller
[15:01] <edmoore> x86 :|
[15:03] <edmoore> ooh
[15:03] <edmoore> aRocket has a carmack 100,000ft rocket entry announced
[15:05] <Laurenceb> i dont follow
[15:05] <Laurenceb> oh its got FAA permission to launch?
[15:09] <Zuph> edmoore: What's special about the hawkboard?
[15:16] <Laurenceb> its got a hawk on the silkscreen
[15:16] <Laurenceb> clearly
[15:19] <edmoore> Zuph: just runs cooler
[15:19] <edmoore> but still good enough to be useful
[15:19] <Zuph> ah
[15:20] <Zuph> I'm still having a lot of fun just piddling around on this STM32 discovery board.
[15:20] <Zuph> Idly working on a balloon computer based on the chip.
[15:21] <hibby> ive got a really nice ibm development board back.in scotland
[15:21] <hibby> but the toolchain and compiler a prprietary
[15:21] <hibby> and i cant run the ide anywa
[15:22] <Zuph> Hate that
[15:23] <fsphil> avr-gcc is why I like using the avr
[15:23] <Zuph> exactly.
[15:24] <Zuph> The ARM toolchains are a bit hairier, but once set up, they work out well.
[15:24] <Zuph> (I need to work on my Make-script-fu, however)
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[15:24] <fsphil> I've had fun compiling stuff for arm before, for the likes of openwrt
[15:24] <Laurenceb> opensourcery is easy
[15:25] <Laurenceb> and the code quality is insane
[15:25] <Laurenceb> im getting within 10% of keil
[15:25] <Randomskk> do you mean codesourcery?
[15:25] <hibby> ever used scons for build/upload on avr and arduino?
[15:25] <hibby> it rocks.
[15:25] <Randomskk> cmake is clearly superior :P
[15:26] <fsphil> I can't think of scons without getting hungry
[15:26] <Zuph> God, I had to use scons for this monsterously complicated Microkernel OS, it was a mess.
[15:27] Action: hibby is still waiting for it to call back.
[15:27] <hibby> if this is what ge are paying me to do, ill take the money.
[15:28] <W0OTM> howdy
[15:29] <Laurenceb> doh
[15:29] <Laurenceb> yes codesourcery
[15:32] <fsphil> g'day W0OTM
[15:32] <Randomskk> it's really much better than gcc?
[15:32] <Laurenceb> the math libs are insanely good
[15:33] <Laurenceb> <60 clk for most floating point stuff accept divide
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[15:33] <Laurenceb> so im getting >1Mflop on dactyl
[15:33] <W0OTM> Hi fsphil
[15:34] <Zuph> I ended up using this script to build a toolchain https://github.com/esden/summon-arm-toolchain
[15:34] <Zuph> Had to tweak it a little, though, it was using a messed up version of binutils.
[15:34] <Zuph> Laurenceb: Are you using the Codesourcery lite?
[15:35] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:36] <Zuph> Maybe I'll try it out.
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[15:38] <Laurenceb> avr-gcc also has really good math libs, but youll get max 150Kflop
[15:42] <Zuph> Anyone know of any single-chip GPS solutions (a la Venus http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9133) are suitable for HAB?
[15:42] <Laurenceb> ublox 5 and 6 are avaliable in qfn56
[15:42] <Laurenceb> with NDA :P
[15:43] <Zuph> hah
[15:43] <mattltm> Zuph: I have that module and it works well. It should work for HAB but it has never been tested.
[15:43] <Upu> Zuph Inventek ISM300 ?
[15:43] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:inventek-ism300
[15:43] <Randomskk> Zuph: what don't you like about the venus for hab?
[15:43] <Zuph> We're using it on White Star, but i've heard reports that it cuts out at some arbitrary altitude (not related to 60kft)
[15:44] <Randomskk> personally I'd still suggest using an actual GPS module, less to go wrong and easier
[15:44] <Randomskk> oh, you just need better firmware.
[15:44] <Randomskk> you can get actual gps modules that are still totally tiny and solder direct to your main pcb, so..
[15:44] <Zuph> Are Venus handing out better firmware?
[15:44] <Randomskk> something like that. we've used them at cusf for balloons at high altitude and my rough understanding is that they run a new firmware from venus that removes the altitude limit
[15:45] <Randomskk> ask eroomde I guess
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[15:49] <natrium42> ola!
[15:49] <Laurenceb> http://www.chibios.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=chibios:articles:stm32vl_discovery:code
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[15:49] <Laurenceb> wow that looks easy
[15:50] <Laurenceb> maybe i should just use chibios
[15:50] <Randomskk> chibios is happy and easy
[15:50] <mattltm> Zuph: Updated Venus firmware >> http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Sensors/GPS/STI_01.06.01-01.10.23_pio_npse_PND_AGPS_LOG_FL_9600_20110331.zip
[15:50] <Laurenceb> love the hardware config stuff
[15:51] <Zuph> mattltm: thanks!
[15:51] <mattltm> Zuph: And the utility to upload it >> http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/GPS/GPS%20Viewer_1124.zip
[15:51] <Randomskk> well it has a HAL with drivers for almost all of the stm32 stuff
[15:51] <Zuph> Laurenceb: Yeah, ChibiOS rocks.
[15:51] <Randomskk> which is a lot better than the stm32 std periph lib
[15:51] <Laurenceb> which is what im using on dactyl atm :S
[15:51] <Laurenceb> its okay
[15:52] <Laurenceb> but yeah chibios is like as easy as arduino yet done professionally
[15:52] <Zuph> mattltm: What's the altitude limit on the new firmware?
[15:52] <Zuph> Laurenceb: It's a lot more computer-science than any of the arduino stuff.
[15:52] <Randomskk> it has proper threads n shit
[15:53] <edmoore> i especially like the shit
[15:53] <Randomskk> it's my favourite part too!
[15:53] <mattltm> Its not limited acording to skytrax
[15:54] <mattltm> Athough I dont know if its been tested. I do have a payload here with the venus on just waiting for someone to fly it and test :)
[15:55] <fsphil> wonder if my old venus firmware can be updated
[15:56] <mattltm> fsphil; I have updated 4 with no issues using their utility
[15:56] <Laurenceb> hmm how well is dma supported in chibi?
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[15:59] <Zuph> Laurenceb: That's next up on my "To fiddle with" list ;-p
[15:59] <edmoore> Randomskk, or anyone. Whose Cortex M3 parts would you recommend atm?
[15:59] <Laurenceb> hmm thats a really hard question
[15:59] <Randomskk> I've only used ST's
[15:59] <Randomskk> (well, excepting my mbed which is an LPC)
[16:00] <Laurenceb> </sarcasm>
[16:00] <Laurenceb> stm32 of course XD
[16:00] <edmoore> are we writing off the atmel stuff?
[16:00] <edmoore> dear old uncle atmel?
[16:03] <Zuph> edmoore: I'd like to, but they're still handy for quick and easy stuff.
[16:04] <edmoore> i mean atmel#'s cortex m3 offeringsw
[16:04] <edmoore> not avrs
[16:04] <Zuph> The STM32 chips have everything, including the kitchen sink. The LPC chips tend to have more application-specific peripheral sets
[16:04] <number10> does anyone use PICs
[16:04] <Zuph> Ah, I didn't even know they had Cortex chips
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[16:05] <elyptikus> my ballon is now in the air...
[16:05] <edmoore> number10: no
[16:05] <fsphil> good news. no problems launching elyptikus?
[16:05] <edmoore> god invented avrs to save us from pics
[16:05] <Darkside> elyptikus: how long has it been in teh air for?
[16:05] <fsphil> I once used PIC but now I'm saved :)
[16:05] <number10> lol admoore -
[16:05] <elyptikus> now 13 minutes
[16:05] <number10> edmoore
[16:05] <Laurenceb> hmm reading chibios it seems to use interrupts for all the drivers
[16:05] <Laurenceb> me not like
[16:06] <number10> I use PICs and CCS c compiler - seems OK to me
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[16:06] <Darkside> eew
[16:06] <Randomskk> PICS are :(
[16:06] <Randomskk> PICs even
[16:06] <Zuph> Laurenceb: Why not like?
[16:06] <Laurenceb> dma is nice
[16:07] <number10> oh - I am clearly outnumbered here - lol
[16:07] <Laurenceb> actually seems you can use it with some of the drivers....
[16:07] <Laurenceb> docs are confusion
[16:07] <Darkside> number10: yup
[16:07] <number10> they are much better than the 8080As I used to program ;-)
[16:08] <Randomskk> yea but AVRs are much better still
[16:08] <Randomskk> and really these days STM32
[16:08] <Randomskk> cheaper, faster, more powerful
[16:09] <Laurenceb> pic32 actually looks good
[16:09] <Zuph> Laurenceb: Docs are fairly confusing, but better than a lot of stuff for freertos
[16:09] <Laurenceb> anything is better than that
[16:09] <Randomskk> so pic32 and dspic are both meant to be fairly fun
[16:09] <Zuph> Anyone used any of the cortex-m0 chips?
[16:09] <number10> but most people are only doing a bit of RS232 and I2C - or have I come late in the thread and you are talking about something that needs more processing
[16:09] <Randomskk> I still hate on their lack of decent open source infrastructure
[16:10] <Laurenceb> number10: im building an autopilot
[16:10] <Laurenceb> im taking a stm32 right to the limit :P
[16:10] <Randomskk> for doing easy stuff avrs are more fun to program than pics :P
[16:10] <number10> oh - just a bit more then Laurenceb
[16:10] <Laurenceb> 13 component state vector ekf with all floats running at 125hz
[16:11] <Laurenceb> stm32 is that good XD
[16:13] <number10> do you use a c compiler with the AVR Randomskk?
[16:13] <Zuph> number10: avr-gcc
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[16:21] <Zuph> Some of the new Cortex M4 chips look pretty interesting.
[16:22] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WKr1u0wH8s&feature=player_detailpage#t=45s
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[16:24] <Randomskk> sorry, phone call
[16:25] <Randomskk> number10: yea, I use avr-gcc for avrs
[16:25] <Randomskk> and gcc for the stm32s
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[16:37] <number10> Randomskk: when you say AVRs are more fun than PICs for simple stuff, in what way?
[16:37] <Randomskk> when I write C for PICs, it makes me want to jump out of windows, I leave with a sour taste in my mouth and I'm rude and abrupt to people all day
[16:38] <Randomskk> writing C for AVRs, on the other, makes me happy and smiley, I give money to charity, kittens leap for joy and it's sunny outdoors
[16:38] <Randomskk> I forgot to mention that PICs also cause puppies to cry
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[16:39] <Randomskk> one is fun to develop for and one feels like a chore, really
[16:40] <number10> lol
[16:40] <SamSilver> USB ports rock
[16:41] <SamSilver> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#highaltitude
[16:41] <SamSilver> oops wrong copy lol
[16:41] <SamSilver> http://imgur.com/gallery/aV7kT
[16:41] <SamSilver> re usb ports
[16:42] <cuddykid> hmm, not sure why arduino app was playing up earlier - hogging cpu & kept freezing
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[16:43] <Randomskk> because it's written in java? :P
[16:43] <cuddykid> never had any problem before though! :S
[16:43] <cuddykid> ergh, predictor still down :(
[16:43] <cuddykid> now hanging @ 55%
[16:43] <Randomskk> that's odd.
[16:44] <Randomskk> after 10% it's actually downloading data from noaa
[16:44] <Randomskk> leave it a bit, it might work
[16:44] <cuddykid> will do
[16:44] <cuddykid> ooo.. 85% now :)
[16:45] <cuddykid> done :D
[16:45] <Randomskk> bloody NOAA
[16:45] <cuddykid> haha
[16:45] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: jonsowman: shall we get a supercompute cluster for habhub and run global wind prediction? stop this relying on a US government agency nonsense
[16:46] <jonsowman> yeah sure
[16:46] <Randomskk> alright cool
[16:48] <natrium42> very weird path http://aprs.fi/?call=KC9POK-11&mt=roadmap&z=11&timerange=3600
[16:49] <natrium42> also, very frequent updates
[16:49] <Randomskk> why is there a town or neighbourhood or something called "Egypt" there
[16:50] <natrium42> lol
[16:51] <natrium42> in america many names are important
[16:51] <natrium42> people lacked imagination :P
[16:51] <natrium42> *imported
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[16:51] <natrium42> Randomskk: look at this --> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=KC9POK-11
[16:52] <Randomskk> blimey
[16:52] <Randomskk> they are spamming aprs all over the show
[16:53] <natrium42> i was using them to test my aprs script
[16:53] <number10> hi Randomskk, I checked out your site (I think) - what are you planning to do after cambs and round the world?
[16:53] <natrium42> looks like need to add many sanity checks...
[16:53] <natrium42> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[16:53] <Randomskk> number10: dunno, make or get a job or do a PhD are my rough options
[16:53] <number10> what options?
[16:54] <Randomskk> for things to do after graduating and going on a grazy holiday
[16:54] <Randomskk> crazy*
[16:54] <number10> lol
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[16:54] <Randomskk> natrium42: !!
[16:54] <Randomskk> good lord
[16:54] <Randomskk> what is their thing /doing/
[16:55] <Randomskk> number10: but seriously, probably either start or work for a startup or do a PhD. maybe a research job for a little.
[16:55] <Randomskk> natrium42: its altitude graph is crappy too
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[16:56] <number10> Randomskk: the company I work for in cambs is always recruiting bright people
[16:56] <Randomskk> who would that be? :P
[16:57] <number10> ccl
[16:58] <Randomskk> so my choices for expanding that acronym include "ccl cleaning supplies ltd", "cambridge communications limited", "cambridge consultants", "cambridge civic leage", et cetera
[16:58] <Randomskk> while the cleaning supplies option is amusing I take it you mean the consultants?
[16:58] <Randomskk> or, hey, maybe you do mean the comms
[16:58] <Randomskk> yea I guess that's my bet
[16:58] <Randomskk> what do you do?
[17:00] <number10> the consultants
[17:01] <number10> I am one of the not so cleaver people in the organisation
[17:05] <fsphil> hmm.. gnome3 locked up again
[17:06] Action: fsphil is trapped in xchat
[17:06] <Randomskk> irssi <3
[17:06] <DanielRichman> Randomskk: so when I was looking toying with the wind data thing a while ago I tried requesting varying sizes of data and seeing how long the shitty java server took to respond: how long you waited for data to begin, and how long you spent actually downloading
[17:06] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: yea, I remember
[17:06] <DanielRichman> as you'd expect download data rate remained fairly constant.
[17:06] <DanielRichman> but.
[17:06] <DanielRichman> ugh
[17:07] <DanielRichman> The only explanation I have is that it tries to load the dataset you request into memory before it sends it
[17:07] <DanielRichman> why would you do that
[17:07] <DanielRichman> that's not really java's fault (unless it's a limitation of the web framework ?)
[17:07] <DanielRichman> that's the fault of whoever wrote that server
[17:07] <DanielRichman> s/dataset you request/all of the subset of the data that you request/
[17:08] <Randomskk> java can only do things badly, it's a language limitation
[17:08] <DanielRichman> very true.
[17:08] <Randomskk> so what were the conclusions again?
[17:08] <Randomskk> it was basically "if you request loads of data it takes ages before it starts sending anything"?
[17:08] <DanielRichman> yeah
[17:08] <DanielRichman> there's like, a sweet spot
[17:08] <Randomskk> was that just the grib files, though, not the opendap?
[17:08] <Randomskk> or was it opendap
[17:09] <DanielRichman> just opendap. I didn't get out my linear programming skills but you have to request an amount to balance the latency of doing a bajillion requests with the delay you get if you request loads.
[17:10] <DanielRichman> however that doesn't really explain why their servers just randomly go down
[17:10] <DanielRichman> do the ECMWF have a similar offering :P?
[17:12] <Randomskk> http://www.ecmwf.int/products/forecasts/d/charts/medium/deterministic/msl_uv850_z500
[17:12] <Randomskk> they seem to hav emuch much much less useful information
[17:12] <Randomskk> what does deterministic forecast mean though >_>
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[17:25] <hibby> yay
[17:25] <hibby> half day
[17:25] <Darkside> hey hibby
[17:26] <hibby> means i can continue wikising.
[17:36] <cuddykid> umm, bbq
[17:36] <Darkside> hmm
[17:36] <Darkside> hibby: kind of finished off the code for TOPCAT today
[17:37] <Darkside> from what i've heard, we're WAY ahead of everyone else, with the possible exception of astrium
[17:37] <Darkside> though apparently they had their payload finished before the official announcement about UKube-1 was made
[17:38] <hibby> but astrium are professionals.
[17:38] <Darkside> that too
[17:38] <hibby> strathclyde are makin sure it's student driven.
[17:38] <Darkside> out of all the *other* groups, i think we're ahead
[17:38] <fsphil> aaah, sneaky keypress to restart gnome3 works
[17:38] <fsphil> (Alt+F2, type r and press enter)
[17:38] <hibby> thats what we want out of it
[17:38] <Darkside> mmm
[17:38] <hibby> fsphil:nice
[17:39] <Darkside> our payload PCB is basically done
[17:39] <Darkside> but we still have a lot of testing to do
[17:39] <Randomskk> astrium "professionals" :|
[17:39] <Randomskk> fsphil: that... shouldn't have to be a thing?
[17:39] <Randomskk> how is gnome 3, anyway?
[17:39] <hibby> we told everyone that when.my supervisor made an arse of himself
[17:39] <Darkside> ?
[17:39] <Randomskk> I should probably upgrade ubuntu 10.10
[17:39] <hibby> gnome3 is ace, imo ;)
[17:40] <Darkside> hibby: what happened?
[17:40] <hibby> heheh
[17:40] <hibby> we were talking software licensing
[17:40] <hibby> lgpl/bsd/mit etc
[17:40] <ruku> Darkside, Ooo! Pictures?
[17:40] <fsphil> I like the look of gnome3, but I don't like all the mouse moving I have to do
[17:41] <Darkside> hibby: oh yeah, whats the legalities about using GPL code
[17:41] <Darkside> do we have to release our source?
[17:41] <Darkside> or just the GPL parts
[17:41] <Randomskk> depends on if you publish binaries or not
[17:41] <Darkside> ruku: http://imgur.com/a/y8Owo#iy78t
[17:41] <hibby> and he made it clear to everyone thst we wouldnt suport anything tat was commercial as we're a charity
[17:41] <ruku> Yow! Very professional fab job!
[17:41] <hibby> and after an awkward pause someone remindedhim.it was all.noncom
[17:41] <fsphil> that looks sweet
[17:42] <Darkside> the smaller pcb is the GPS module we're using
[17:42] <hibby> f*#ing keyboard
[17:42] <Darkside> everything on the main PCB was done by me
[17:42] <ruku> oh no, haha what happened to L1?
[17:42] <Darkside> ?
[17:42] <Darkside> ohh
[17:42] <Darkside> yeah
[17:42] <ruku> haha
[17:42] <hibby> the
[17:42] <Darkside> we were originally going to use a 10uH, but realised we could use a 22uH instead
[17:43] <Darkside> i made the footprint support both
[17:43] <hibby> nice obe
[17:43] <Darkside> same with the crystal, it can support a ceramic resonator, and a ABM7 or ABM3 SMD crystal
[17:43] <ruku> Whats an ABM7 / 3
[17:44] <Darkside> an SMD package
[17:44] <hibby> (im having issues with the almost great keyboard im using on android)
[17:44] <Darkside> a SMD package*
[17:44] <Darkside> http://au.element14.com/abracon/abm3-16-000mhz-d2-t/crystal-16mhz-18pf-smd/dp/1826810
[17:45] <ruku> any particular advantage to other packs?
[17:45] <Darkside> i just wanted something small
[17:46] <Darkside> so you can see there are a few components missing off that board
[17:46] <ruku> yea
[17:46] <Darkside> we're still waiting on a few things
[17:46] <ruku> no I was wondering if it preformed better in vacuum / etc
[17:46] <Darkside> oh
[17:46] <Darkside> yeah, it might do, as it has a smaller space inside it
[17:47] <Darkside> we're gonna put one of the crystals in the vacuum chamber to see what happens
[17:48] <ruku> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184121_775298628323_15211915_37454107_6777088_n.jpg
[17:48] <Darkside> ooh nice
[17:49] <Darkside> singel sided?
[17:49] <ruku> Double
[17:49] <Darkside> why the DB9?
[17:49] <natrium42> Darkside: building a time machine?
[17:49] <Darkside> natrium42: ?
[17:49] <ruku> Have a device that's streaming data to me.
[17:49] <natrium42> < Darkside> we're gonna put one of the crystals in the vacuum chamber to see what happens
[17:49] <Darkside> >_>
[17:50] <Darkside> is this a half life reference?
[17:50] <ruku> I coulda just run wires to its db9, but a db9 connector made it so much prettier.
[17:50] <Darkside> ruku: but is it RS232?
[17:50] <natrium42> Darkside: have you seen napoleon dynamite?
[17:50] <ruku> Darkside, if so, its lost on me...
[17:50] <Darkside> natrium42: nope
[17:50] <ruku> Darkside, Nope. UART and whoever knows what else they've got.
[17:50] <natrium42> ...
[17:50] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/5zxq6x yey all done :D
[17:50] <NigeyS> ello natrium42 , Darkside
[17:50] <Darkside> NigeyS: haha usbtinyisp
[17:50] <ruku> Hey now, that's a familiar device.
[17:50] <Darkside> should have got yourself a AVRISPMKII...
[17:51] <NigeyS> maan it took 30mins to desolder 2 resistors!
[17:51] <Darkside> only 27 pounds on farnell!
[17:51] <NigeyS> hah no, this was only £20 lol
[17:51] <ruku> Oh man, do they have turrets now on the LEDs?
[17:51] <natrium42> what's up, NigeyS?
[17:51] <jonsowman> mine is a being a bit unreliable recently
[17:51] <NigeyS> i think i made the led's to high it wont fit in the case hehe
[17:51] <ruku> Better than what I did, and just trim them flush, x__x
[17:51] <jonsowman> Darkside: is the mkII good?
[17:52] <Darkside> jonsowman: well, it works
[17:52] <NigeyS> jonsowman, ive no clue how to use it, but its sitting there with a green light so ...
[17:52] <Darkside> and does the high voltage programming
[17:52] <Darkside> so if you fuck something up you can recover
[17:52] <jonsowman> oh that's useful
[17:52] <ruku> I'm not thrilled with ladyada's, though it was a great cheap start.
[17:52] <Darkside> also does super slow programming speeds
[17:52] <ruku> I have a dragon here. :3
[17:52] <NigeyS> me and high voltage dont get on to well :p
[17:52] <Darkside> i accidentally programmed a ATTiny to have a reeeeealy slow clock speed
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[17:52] <Darkside> and the usbtinyisp wouldn't program it
[17:53] <Darkside> i just set my AVRISPMKII To program at 100Hz and wiped the fuses
[17:53] <jonsowman> hmm
[17:53] <ruku> I'm... not sure if I'd get a mkii or a dragon.
[17:53] <jonsowman> maybe I'll invest
[17:53] <ruku> The mkii seems gobs more reliable than the dragon.
[17:53] <Darkside> ruku: get a JTAGICE :P
[17:53] <ruku> But its nice to have the debugger...
[17:53] <ruku> For something under $50 <_<;
[17:53] <Darkside> the MKII doesnt have the debuffer
[17:53] <Darkside> debugger*
[17:53] <ruku> Yea
[17:53] <Darkside> heh
[17:54] <Darkside> JTAGICE is awesome
[17:54] <ruku> Then again, I don't seem to use the debugger.
[17:54] <Darkside> but fuckoff expensive
[17:54] <Darkside> yeah, i just make use of LEDs and handy serial ports
[17:54] <jonsowman> http://onecall.farnell.com/atmel/atjtagice2/development-kit-debug-tool/dp/9171100
[17:54] <jonsowman> :O
[17:54] <jonsowman> £215
[17:54] <Darkside> eeyup
[17:54] <Darkside> as i said, fuckoff expensive
[17:54] <Darkside> we have about 10 of them floating around uni back in adelaide
[17:54] <Darkside> i've only seen 2 people use them..
[17:55] <Randomskk> yet it still has a piece of shit case
[17:55] <jonsowman> Randomskk: lokl
[17:55] <NigeyS> lol
[17:55] <Randomskk> why can't they spend a day designing a sexy aluminium case for it
[17:55] <Randomskk> seriously
[17:55] <Darkside> lol
[17:55] <jonsowman> I would buy if if it did
[17:55] <Darkside> its just a really big a avrispmkii
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[17:57] <Zuph> I love my Dragon.
[17:57] <Zuph> I wish I knew how to use gdb, though :-p
[17:59] <Randomskk> don't we all
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[18:13] <rjharrison> ping Upu
[18:13] <Upu> o7
[18:13] <rjharrison> Hi all
[18:13] <Upu> evening
[18:13] <rjharrison> 144.650?
[18:13] <Upu> sec
[18:15] <ruku> assdfsjd:lfj;A.
[18:15] <ruku> I soldered the DB9 on the wrong side, and I don't have plated through holes.
[18:22] <Darkside> ouch
[18:22] <Darkside> most of my PCBs rely on plated through holes
[18:22] <rjharrison> 1971rharrison
[18:23] <rjharrison> opps that's my utube for Upu
[18:26] <number10> hi
[18:29] <hibby> hometime :)
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[18:47] <Laurenceb_> yo
[18:47] <NigeyS> hey Laurenceb_
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> so chibios does support use of dma for periferals on stm32 :P
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> this is kind of cool, but it does mean i may have wasted my time
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> autopilot is as simple as c&p openpilot ekf into a few hundered lines of chibios code O_o
[18:49] <NigeyS> :o
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[18:50] <Zuph> Laurenceb_: Does the HAL support DMA by default? How do you hook in?
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> aiui by default
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> its controlled by the initialisation
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> you can use isr->buffer or dma with dma complete isr
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> ive kind of screwed up by using spi2, as it shares dma channels with spi2
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> i think i could fix that problem right away by using isr for usart
[18:53] <natrium42> hi rjharrison
[18:53] <natrium42> any more pix? :)
[18:54] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/WbfzZ.png
[18:54] <Darkside> wheee
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> oh god not ionospheric scintillation
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> nice graphic tho
[18:54] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: we're not doing scintillation
[18:54] <Darkside> just TEC measurement
[18:54] <Darkside> in the ionosphere and the plasmasphere
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> ah
[18:55] <Darkside> though i've had lots of fun talks recently about scintillation
[18:55] <Darkside> :P
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[18:55] <Darkside> as you'd know, knowing cathryn mitchell
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> yes
[18:55] <Darkside> she mentioned you by name
[18:55] <Darkside> :P
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> yeah i was at sstl, but i quit as it wasnt going anywhere
[18:56] <natrium42> did the sentence also contain big words like "explosion"
[18:56] <natrium42> ?
[18:56] <natrium42> :D
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> what you're working on seems fun tho
[18:57] <Darkside> sstl?
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> surrey satellite people
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> make gps receivers and stuff
[18:57] <Darkside> ahh
[18:57] <Darkside> yeah, she mentioned you working there
[18:57] <Darkside> where are you now?
[18:58] <Laurenceb_> im working in nottingham on medical kit
[18:59] <Darkside> ahh
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[19:17] <rjharrison> any joy
[19:17] <RocketBoy> sort of - found the directory - but cant find any logs
[19:17] andrew_apex (~chatzilla@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:17] <RocketBoy> i assume they should be in the logs subdirectory
[19:18] <rjharrison> no /home/srandle?/.dl-fldigi
[19:18] <Upu> 434.643 rjharrison...
[19:18] <rjharrison> randall
[19:18] <Randomskk> I'm not sure it saves logs like that per se
[19:18] <RocketBoy> yes there is that directory - just no obvious logs in it
[19:19] <rjharrison> ahh
[19:19] <RocketBoy> nothing in /Users/steverandall/.dl-fldigi/logs
[19:20] <Upu> 434.647.50 transmitting now
[19:21] <rjharrison> Upu no :-(
[19:21] <Upu> lemmie put an antenna in
[19:21] <fsphil> antennas help
[19:21] <rjharrison> uep
[19:21] <rjharrison> yep
[19:22] Lunar_Lander (~knoppix@p548836A4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:22] <rjharrison> RocketBoy I can't find any logs
[19:22] <rjharrison> here
[19:22] <rjharrison> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:22] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> andrew_apex, jonsowman priyesh http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=518701
[19:22] <rjharrison> Humm we should be loging by default on dl-fldigi --hab
[19:22] <Upu> I'll plug the NTX into the house antenna :)
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu rjharrison
[19:22] <Upu> should have no issues then :)
[19:22] <priyesh> hello Lunar_Lander
[19:22] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: if so where?
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> hi priyesh RocketBoy
[19:23] <RocketBoy> hi ll
[19:23] <andrew_apex> Lunar_Lander: the air ionises at a lower voltage - although I'm not sure why!
[19:23] <rjharrison> RocketBoy i'm going to read the source a sec
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> andrew_apex: that is what the person who replied on the question explained :)
[19:24] <RocketBoy> rjharrison: good idea - i hadn't resorted to that - but now is the time
[19:25] <andrew_apex> however, i'd be surpirsed if it decreased that much... - at ground level it's about 3.3kv/mm
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> but sparking should be a problem at high altitudes
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> thus my suggestion to pressure test GCs
[19:26] <andrew_apex> to cause problems with our setup, it would have had to fall to something like 250v/mm
[19:26] <andrew_apex> but it's the best guess we've had to why it stopped working :P
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
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[19:40] <rjharrison> RocketBoy hum I cant see it loggin in dl-fldigi at all
[19:40] <rjharrison> Need to have a look at this with jc
[19:41] <RocketBoy> ok
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy: I don't know if I asked it before but what do you think of those brown surplus balloons which are on ebay from time to time?
[19:43] <Darkside> brown? >_>
[19:43] <RocketBoy> well - i'm sure they work for a bit - we used to use them in the early days - cos they were cheap
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:44] <RocketBoy> but I doubt that they will make the sane altitude as their new counterparts
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> also they have that unnecessary "skirt"
[19:45] <RocketBoy> oh - those ones - I didn't use them
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> I bought two some time ago
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> I thought about using them first before the new one that I bought from you
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> to get inflation experience also
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[19:55] <eroomde> a sane altitude?
[19:56] <eroomde> what kin d of altitudes are insane?
[19:56] <fsphil-laptop> -200km is pretty nuts
[19:56] <Zuph> 47 + 2i
[19:57] <Laurenceb_> thats what they call me
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> back
[20:01] <fsphil-laptop> front
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:17] <eroomde> Zuph wins
[20:17] <eroomde> once when i was working on the landing predictor it gave me imaginary co-ordinates
[20:17] <eroomde> this lead me to suspect there might be a subtle bug
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello eroomde
[20:19] <eroomde> hello Lunar_Lander
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
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[20:22] <hibby> here, have a giant dragon
[20:22] <hibby> http://www.flickr.com/photos/djhibby/6000953302/in/set-72157627212668349
[20:26] <Randomskk> fire breathing pony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNs4G2rKGOE
[20:27] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: well thank you
[20:27] <hibby> Randomskk: that's a LVL1 creation
[20:27] <eroomde> i got cleats for my road bike today
[20:27] <eroomde> a noticable improvement in speed going up hills
[20:31] <daveake> Specially good for falling off when you stop :)
[20:32] <eroomde> mmm
[20:32] <eroomde> i did loads of practice last night
[20:32] <daveake> At falling off? ;)
[20:32] <eroomde> deliberately cycling at walls and stopping last second
[20:33] <daveake> Good :)
[20:33] <eroomde> trying to see if i could unclip in a panic
[20:33] <eroomde> well, pseudo-panic
[20:33] <eroomde> seems ok so far
[20:33] <daveake> good!
[20:33] <eroomde> we'll see when i crank the clip tension up
[20:34] <eroomde> i had to cycle without for a few weeks as i did my anterior cruciate ligament in and apparently needed to concentrate on good form pedalling and building up stabiliser muscles before being constrained by clips
[20:35] <eroomde> but i reckon the more efficient power use with clips probably lowers the strain on your kneecaps compared to without, so i'm not sure if being cleatless was necessary
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello daveake
[20:35] <daveake> hello LL
[20:36] <daveake> I bought one of those 10m telescopic poles as advertised by Upu at the weekend :)
[20:36] <daveake> It's impressively long!
[20:36] <fsphil> they're really nifty
[20:37] <fsphil> glad I got one
[20:37] <daveake> Should help if my next hab does land in one of those tall green things
[20:37] <fsphil> might get another infact
[20:37] <fsphil> is it a fishing rod?
[20:37] <daveake> Not too expensive. I'm impressed :)
[20:37] <eroomde> guess it's useful for impromtu HF antennas too
[20:37] <eroomde> could you link me up possibly?
[20:37] <daveake> One on ebay was an antenna too
[20:37] <fsphil> I got mine for HF, made an impromtu recovery pole :)
[20:37] <daveake> Just search ebay for "10m telescopic pole"
[20:38] <fsphil> one I got: http://www.sandpiperaerials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_29&products_id=194
[20:38] <fsphil> top is very wobbly if there's any weight on it
[20:39] <fsphil> I had a knife duct-taped to it
[20:39] <Randomskk> that sounds safe
[20:39] <daveake> Yes, very wobbly at the end!
[20:39] <daveake> I got this one - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10m-Fibreglass-Telescopic-Pole-Windsocks-Flags-Whip-/290547990665?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43a6028089#ht_500wt_715
[20:39] <fsphil> it was a special kind of knife, no risk if it fell :)
[20:39] <daveake> :)
[20:40] <fsphil> first knife got stuck in the tree
[20:40] <daveake> lol
[20:40] <fsphil> second one we tied a rope too it, used the rope to pull it rather than the pole
[20:40] <fsphil> so glad I never have to go back to that forest though
[20:40] <daveake> :)
[20:41] <fsphil> ooh that one's a good bit cheaper
[20:41] <daveake> My hab did hit a tree but simply got slowed to a slightly less suicidal speed
[20:41] <fsphil> "Not available to Northern Ireland"
[20:41] <fsphil> wtf
[20:41] <daveake> !!!
[20:42] <eroomde> nice
[20:42] <eroomde> i think making the hab catch fire is the solution
[20:42] <fsphil> lol
[20:42] <eroomde> make the outside out of something flammable
[20:42] <daveake> Pyros to the rescue again
[20:42] <eroomde> it'll melt the nylon if nothing else
[20:42] <eroomde> bloody pyros
[20:43] <fsphil> my two solutions where to use the knife, or attach a hot wire to the end of the pole
[20:43] <fsphil> either would have worked I think
[20:43] <daveake> The payload will came down when the tree is burnt to the ground
[20:43] <eroomde> i'm (for work) designing a pyro firing box for the nasa standard initiator pyros
[20:43] <eroomde> it's a bloody nightmare
[20:43] <daveake> [thinks] buy a chainsaw to make really sure ... :)
[20:43] <eroomde> you can't just use a fet, oh no
[20:44] <daveake> far too simple
[20:45] <daveake> Today's other hab-related purchase was one of those very cheap "spy" keyfob cameras
[20:45] <fsphil> ooh
[20:45] <eroomde> lots of constant current sources, static buildup monitoring, 9 different earths, relay interlocks everywhere
[20:45] <fsphil> got one of those, neat toys
[20:45] <daveake> I think that interfacing to it will be simpler than reading the chinglish manual
[20:45] <fsphil> you got a manual? :)
[20:45] <fsphil> I'm trying to find a way of getting a gopro camera
[20:46] <daveake> I have a Kodak Zx1 bought cheap on Amazon when the replacement model came out
[20:46] <fsphil> any good?
[20:46] <daveake> Takes excellent quality HD video. Sound is a bit shite but that doesn't matter!
[20:46] <fsphil> does it have that silly rolling shutter that most cameras these days seem to have?
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> I'm pondering doing a hack launch.
[20:47] <daveake> No physical shutter afaics
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> http://www.rocketknight.com/forum_imgs/2012_logo.png
[20:47] <fsphil> not really a physical shutter, just some cameras read the sensor line by line, rather than the whole frame in one go
[20:48] <fsphil> makes everything go wobbly when you shake it left and right
[20:48] <daveake> Only problem really is that it doesn't like Lithium AAs
[20:48] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: lisa simpson?
[20:48] <daveake> oic. dunno
[20:48] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: hack launch?
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> A 1m^3 or so balloon made from polythene from the roll I found in the attic, half-full of natural gas.
[20:48] <eroomde> natural gas... lol
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> And yes - lol.
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> It's a sucky lift gas.
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> But I have this tap in my kitchen.
[20:49] <daveake> hydrogen .... natural gas ... people are living dangerously lately :)
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> And I have an old radiosonde.
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> I should look up to see if I can fin the GPS format for it.
[20:52] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: what radisonde is it
[20:52] <Darkside> a vaisala one?
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> rs80?
[20:52] <Darkside> SondeMonitor
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Is it commercial?
[20:52] <daveake> fsphil - roller shutter - yes, it does.
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall payware
[20:52] <Darkside> yeah, but its the only thing out there that'll decode it
[20:52] <Darkside> its very good software
[20:52] <Darkside> i actually paid for it - and the dev has been incredibly useful and receptive to feedback
[20:53] <Darkside> i got a few new features added in, mainly for accessing data from the program externally
[20:53] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: where would you be launching from?
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Glenrothes.
[20:56] <Darkside> bah
[20:57] <Darkside> way too far north
[20:57] <Darkside> fsphil might hear it tho
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> I suppose I would in principle need to do the CAA thing.
[20:57] <Darkside> also you;d be operating on a frequency you're not licenced for
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> I suppose that's true.
[20:58] <Darkside> though if the RS80s use a similar transmitter module to the RS92s, it might be possible to push the transmitter up to 420MHZ
[20:58] <Darkside> but WAIT
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> Not type-approved
[20:58] <Darkside> ofcom doesn't allow amateur transmissions from the air anyway...
[20:58] <Darkside> juxta has flown a radiosonde before, when the main payload failed
[20:59] <Darkside> as a friend of ours, vk5zsn, has a pile of them (as do I now)
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[21:08] <fsphil> you'd have no probem receiving it Darkside
[21:09] <fsphil> assuming it got to >=20km
[21:10] <Darkside> mm ok
[21:10] <fsphil> my launch was heard in london
[21:11] <NigeyS> oo rs-80s are only £9.99
[21:11] <Darkside> lol
[21:11] <Darkside> but you can't legally fly them
[21:11] <NigeyS> true
[21:12] <Darkside> we can fly the RS92SGPW's in australia, but only for a few more months, when we loose the 420-430MHZ spectrum
[21:12] <fsphil> !!
[21:13] <Darkside> yep
[21:13] <Darkside> 400MHz band restructuring
[21:13] <Darkside> we loose 420-430, and i can only push those RS92SGPW's up to 420.050MHz
[21:14] <Darkside> and even they they only operate at very low power
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[21:23] <fsphil> you just have the 430-440 then?
[21:24] <Darkside> 430-450
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[21:58] <Elwell> anyone know how elyptikus got on?
[21:59] <fsphil> no news
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[22:09] <Darkside> nn
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Darkside
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> rjharrison: how is the new Icarus progressing?
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[22:29] Action: hibby swears at fedora
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[22:33] <fsphil> aah, we should start a club hibby
[22:33] <hibby> it appears that usb live disk persistance is a no-no
[22:34] <hibby> and that it doesn't support my wireless chipset in the work machine out the box
[22:34] <hibby> however, its running SO fast off this usb stick
[22:34] <hibby> and i love gnome 3 :(
[22:34] <fsphil> I wasn't able to write a f15 live usb disk at all
[22:34] <fsphil> it always fails
[22:34] <fsphil> f14 is fine
[22:34] <hibby> i just used unetbootin
[22:35] <hibby> after having /dev/zero'd my disk and formatted it
[22:35] <fsphil> ah
[22:35] <fsphil> I'd been using fedoras own live usb creator
[22:36] <hibby> don't think it's available on arch
[22:36] <hibby> lol
[22:44] <hibby> this machine that work haave given me is a beast
[22:44] <hibby> i5 laptop
[22:44] <hibby> looks to have 4 logical cores
[22:44] <hibby> 4 gigorbytez of teh_ramz
[22:45] <NigeyS> 6 chips down 6 to go .. *yawn*
[22:45] <hibby> lol
[22:47] <NigeyS> how long you in the states for hibby ?
[22:47] <Elwell> hibby: how long are you out there for?
[22:47] <Elwell> ah snap :-)
[22:47] <NigeyS> lol Elwell !
[22:47] <hibby> lol
[22:47] <hibby> Elwell: only till septembro
[22:48] Action: Elwell gives up on trying to find a decent, cheap router and settles on ~220 CHF :-(
[22:49] <hibby> want anything sent over?
[22:50] <fsphil> hibby, so how long are ... oh :p
[22:50] <hibby> heheh
[22:51] <fsphil> weather cooled down a bit?
[22:51] <hibby> nope
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> Elwell: You've got a pile of swiss franks instead of a router? Sounds like a plan.
[22:51] <hibby> we have now broken the record for most consecutive days over 90F in the Midwest's history
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> It's summer here.
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> The house is averaging 17C.
[22:52] <fsphil> lol
[22:52] <fsphil> actually pretty warm here atm
[22:52] <NigeyS> warm here to yey! \o/
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> That's 62F
[22:53] <NigeyS> 23 tomorrow .. thats like .. heatwave territory for s.wales
[22:53] <fsphil> 22c in the room
[22:53] <hibby> we don't even get that at night :(
[22:53] <fsphil> oi
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> Due to technical reasons, I have zero solar gain.
[22:53] <fsphil> that's cruel
[22:53] <NigeyS> lol
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> Which make it a couple of degrees cooler than otherwise.
[22:53] <NigeyS> what broke SpeedEvil ?
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> This is due to the massive lean-to of tarps I made stopping sunlight hitting the windows.
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Oh - that works OK.
[22:54] <NigeyS> oh i seeeee
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> OTOH - about 1/3 through getting one room properly insulated - so I don't have to care about the insulation on the rest of the house.
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Can hit 20C delta with about 400W.
[22:55] <NigeyS> impressive!
[23:09] <hibby> fsphil: it's going nicely
[23:09] <hibby> but it feels like it's writing the 6gig persistant partition at a byte a second
[23:09] <hibby> fedora livecd that is
[23:10] <fsphil> euu
[23:13] <fsphil> not sure what would cause that
[23:14] <hibby> just slowness
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[23:42] <hibby> half way
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug 3 2011