highaltitude.log.20110731

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[00:10] <Lunar_Lander> wb fsphil
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[00:55] <SpeedEvil> Oooh!
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicon-Labs-SI534-Quad-Silicon-XO-534AB000460G-/110721605925?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c785a125
[00:55] <Lunar_Lander> what is it?
[00:56] <SpeedEvil> Variable output very stable 'crystal' which can be retuned fast enough to do signalling
[00:56] <SpeedEvil> Over a _stupidly_ wide range.
[00:56] <SpeedEvil> (10MHz to 914MHz)
[00:57] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[03:32] <kristianpaul> Trimmed at 13 MHz, 20MHz, 25 MHz and 100 MHz frequencies
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[03:45] <SpeedEvil> It's programmable
[03:46] <SpeedEvil> To arbitrary frequencies IIRC - there was a page on using it for FSK - but I seem to have mislaid it
[03:46] <SpeedEvil> ayway - asleep
[03:46] <kristianpaul> sure :)
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[07:12] <eroomde> good morning campers
[07:12] <eroomde> how did yesterday go?
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[07:32] <Upu> morning eroomde
[07:32] <Upu> text book
[07:33] <Upu> sorta
[07:33] <Upu> Hydrogen cylinders had flow rate limiters on them
[07:33] <number10> morning upu - must have been a small wisky as you are up ;0
[07:33] <Upu> it was just a small one yes, you don't muck about with cask strength Laphraiog
[07:33] <eroomde> did you meet the may?
[07:34] <number10> very nice - my favourite but thats a little srtong
[07:34] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/IMG_0062.JPG <-
[07:34] <eroomde> hold up, you used hydrogen?
[07:34] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/hydrogen.jpg
[07:34] <eroomde> nice
[07:34] <Upu> two balloons one hydrogen one helium
[07:34] <eroomde> he's aging...
[07:35] <Upu> yeah he did come across as being old and doddery but a nice bloke
[07:35] <Upu> the payload bounded off HV Cables on the way down :)
[07:36] <Upu> bounced
[07:36] <number10> aging hu he is three years younger than me... :(
[07:36] <Upu> how old is he ?
[07:36] <number10> born in 1963
[07:36] <Upu> oh ok
[07:36] <Upu> oh what antenna were you using yesterday number10 ?
[07:37] <Upu> eroomde http://ava.upuaut.net/files/floatingrob.jpg
[07:37] <number10> I was using a moon raker scanner magnetic
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[07:37] <Upu> ok
[07:37] <Upu> you were closest to us it seems
[07:37] <number10> but only managed to get pc working when ballons burst :( should have got a lot more
[07:37] <Upu> never mind thanks for giving it a shot
[07:37] <number10> my pleasure
[07:38] <number10> I think I will get a 70cm whip and try and find out why my main pc would not decode
[07:40] <SamSilver> if you zoom in and look on the left of Rob in this picture you can see Mr May's fingers floating from a photoshop job http://ava.upuaut.net/files/floatingrob.jpg
[07:40] <Upu> yeah
[07:40] <Upu> Rob posted the full picture before that
[07:40] <Upu> also note his legs lol
[07:40] <Upu> 1 sec let me just put the original up
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[07:43] <Upu> ok refresh it now
[07:43] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/floatingrob.jpg
[07:44] <SamSilver> to kewl
[07:46] <SamSilver> at first glance it looks like james has a big flask of coffee but that must be the urn
[07:46] <Upu> it is
[07:46] <SamSilver> wish I had been there
[07:47] <SamSilver> looks like it was fun
[07:47] <Upu> was a good day out really enjoyed it
[07:47] <Upu> just note to self : take sun cream next time
[07:47] <SamSilver> I saw beer aswell
[07:47] <Upu> yeah that was involved
[07:49] <SamSilver> soo we must wait till September /
[07:49] <SamSilver> ?
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[07:51] <Upu> yeah something like that
[07:51] <Upu> morning Steve
[07:52] <RocketBoy> yo - how are u
[07:52] <Upu> great
[07:52] <Upu> bit sun burnt but fine :)
[07:52] <Upu> were you after me last night ?
[07:53] <RocketBoy> not that i recall
[07:53] <Upu> ok no probs
[07:54] <RocketBoy> im a bit tired - didn't get a lot of sleep
[07:54] <Upu> Did Rob send the pictures across ?
[07:54] <Upu> I slept like a log
[07:54] <Upu> knackering day :)
[07:55] <RocketBoy> yeah - good fun though I thought
[07:55] <RocketBoy> I have a graph - hang on
[07:56] <SamSilver> oooh luv a good pie chart
[07:56] <SamSilver> or even a venn diagram ;-)
[07:58] <RocketBoy> http://imagebin.org/165760
[07:59] <RocketBoy> the red i the canary and the blue the cat
[07:59] <Upu> hydrogen wins in the worlds most unscientific scientific experiment :)
[07:59] <RocketBoy> that was syncronised with gps time from
[07:59] <RocketBoy> the logs
[08:00] <RocketBoy> yeah - it was tv not science
[08:00] <RocketBoy> but an interesting result
[08:01] <Upu> use it again ?
[08:02] <number10> is that your logs or everyone who was traking RocketBoy
[08:03] <RocketBoy> I may do - i'd like to reserch the safty angle a bit more
[08:03] <RocketBoy> including seeing what happens when you set light to a balloon
[08:04] <RocketBoy> number10: that just the off air logs
[08:04] <SamSilver> I have seen some video was arhab related
[08:04] <RocketBoy> form the listener
[08:05] <RocketBoy> yeah - I'd like to try say 5cu m
[08:06] <number10> as a boy at school we used to send party ballons up with hydrogen and have a filterpaper underneath with a soluction of phosforus disolved in carbon disulfide - when the liquid evaporated the phosfous ignighted and popped the ballon
[08:07] <GW8RAK> the igniter is probably more dangerous than the hydrogen
[08:07] <SamSilver> RocketBoy: here is some video of H2 balloons burning
[08:07] <SamSilver> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6506609172175756838#
[08:07] <number10> yes - the teachers were totally mad
[08:09] <SamSilver> afk
[08:14] <RocketBoy> interesting - I'd like to know what the radiant heat is like - but it looks like the biggest danger is burning rubber - probably hot and sticky
[08:15] <Upu> yep
[08:15] <SamSilver> I intend to use H2 on my launches
[08:15] <RocketBoy> i guess the question is what would cause that sort of ignition
[08:15] <SamSilver> I have my Nomex flying suit that I will wear.
[08:16] <RocketBoy> static electricity is the only thing I have in mind
[08:16] <SamSilver> a leak that gets ignited by a spark could set of a chain reaction
[08:17] <SamSilver> a spanner with some dirt/sand on it hitting a gas bottle would be one way
[08:18] <RocketBoy> yes I gess a leak and a downwind source of ignition might do it - but I think the ratios of h to air have to be in a relatively narrow band - so I was told yesterday
[08:18] <SamSilver> I have seen a golf ball with a bit of dirt on it hit by a club cause a real big spark
[08:19] <Randomskk> RocketBoy: do you manage the EARS NOTAM?
[08:19] <RocketBoy> yep
[08:19] <Randomskk> have you had any discussions about swapping from an ongoing NOTAM to a NOTAM-per-launch while maintaining ongoing launch permission system?
[08:20] <Randomskk> I've been emailing a few companies in the area who are not entirely pleased with the current setup and someone else phoned today and had the same conversation, but he mentioned he's phoned you and apparently also had that conversation
[08:21] <RocketBoy> yes
[08:21] <Randomskk> I don't know how far through any plans you are but it might be worth chatting about what we're doing as I guess we're both in the same situation really
[08:21] <Upu> RocketBoy you have a PM :)
[08:21] <RocketBoy> not recently - in the past there has been no way to raise a notam at a day or two notice
[08:22] <RocketBoy> has that changed?
[08:22] <Randomskk> well essentially I think it's been a confusing of terms by HAB people
[08:22] <Randomskk> but there's two things we get from the CAA
[08:22] <Randomskk> a NOTAM, and a notice of variation which gives us license to launch
[08:22] <Randomskk> the NOTAM isn't legally required - it's just a notice to pilots
[08:22] <Randomskk> the license is what lets us launch
[08:22] <Randomskk> right now, both are active for the entire window
[08:23] <RocketBoy> its not confusing to me
[08:23] <Randomskk> but it turns out NOTAM issuing is an automated process that takes minutes
[08:23] <Randomskk> good, okay. just a lot of people say "NOTAM" to mean both
[08:23] <Randomskk> so basically it should be possible to maintain the large window for the license, allowing us to legally launch whenever
[08:23] <RocketBoy> yeah i know - i don't know whay that say this it annoys me instensly
[08:24] <Randomskk> but not have the NOTAM be active the entire time, instead using some kind of automatic system to issue NOTAMs the day before launches
[08:24] <Randomskk> one of the companies emailing us has even offered to provide the latter service, as it'd be a net economic gain for them apparently vs time wasted phoning us, ha
[08:24] <Randomskk> anyway the emails aside another commercial pilot rang up today with the same concerns
[08:25] <RocketBoy> iI know of no way to raise a notam at a day or two notice - the current system says you need to give 28 days to raise a notam - but I know that its often done faster
[08:25] <Randomskk> okay, so the email we got said
[08:25] <Randomskk> "We have many thousand Notam which only have a few hours notice."
[08:26] <Randomskk> which is from NATS
[08:27] <Randomskk> and they've explicitly offered to set up a system for us
[08:27] <Randomskk> I don't know what that would involve, though. we'd at the least also need to talk to the CAA to have them not issue the rolling notam
[08:27] <eroomde> would we still need the NoV from david miller?
[08:27] <Randomskk> yes
[08:28] <Randomskk> but that's still on a rolling basis
[08:28] <Randomskk> the two can be separate
[08:28] <Randomskk> so we get the actual NOTAMs the day before launches
[08:28] <Randomskk> but the NoV stays active for six months
[08:28] <RocketBoy> I understand - this was discussed with dm way back - it wasn't on offer then - perhaps the situation has changed
[08:28] <eroomde> I'd quite like to remove damid miller from the process entirely if possible
[08:28] <Randomskk> haha
[08:29] <Randomskk> I haven't spoken to david about this at all, though (or about anything, jon tends to take that fun responsibility)
[08:29] <Randomskk> so he might go "actually no we require you to have a really long notam"
[08:29] <eroomde> i think we should maybe go and visit these people in person
[08:29] <Randomskk> in which case we can just give his phone number to everyone who wants a fifteen minute chat with me at 8am on sunday about our NOTAM
[08:29] <RocketBoy> i do have to investigate what the guy was saying on the phone this morning
[08:30] <RocketBoy> he said there was a continiuous notam for EARS
[08:30] <RocketBoy> but as far as i know its only weekends
[08:30] <RocketBoy> so possibly the notam displayer he has is wrong
[08:31] <Randomskk> checking now
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[08:33] <eroomde> Randomskk or RocketBoy : do you know what the mimimum notice required for a NOTAM is?
[08:33] <Randomskk> do you know which aerodome it's under? can't find yours on the cambridge one
[08:33] <Randomskk> eroomde: I don't think there is one in a legal sense
[08:33] <Randomskk> the company said they sometimes put them up with "hours" notice
[08:34] <Randomskk> I suspect practically we'd want the NOTAM up before midnight day of flight
[08:34] <eroomde> well, that depends
[08:34] <eroomde> if you want to launch at midnight...
[08:34] <Randomskk> oh, true
[08:34] <eroomde> or if a storm starts rolling in with 1hours notice and you want to catch it
[08:34] <eroomde> for stormhab
[08:35] <Randomskk> you'd hope not many people would be flying through a thunderstorm either way :P
[08:35] <eroomde> true
[08:36] <RocketBoy> found it -its H3677/11
[08:36] <eroomde> we shouldn't settle for a system that reduces our capability just in the name of being 'nice' to some random company flapping about phoning us costing money
[08:36] <Randomskk> RocketBoy: http://pastie.org/2297914
[08:36] <Randomskk> haha, yea
[08:37] <Randomskk> eroomde: oh, totally
[08:37] <RocketBoy> which is for 3 months continous
[08:37] <Randomskk> I don't think the NOTAM affects our capability at all though
[08:37] <Randomskk> legally right now I think we could launch without one, it'd just be more risky to pilots
[08:37] <Randomskk> but right now I'm told a lot of pilots have given up checking as they're under the impression we rarely/never launch
[08:37] <eroomde> well, that's why we call the tower, right
[08:37] <Randomskk> (which is pretty bad on their part)
[08:37] <Randomskk> indeed
[08:37] <eroomde> as long as they kow about it
[08:38] <Randomskk> yea, then the tower should be able to take care of it all
[08:38] <RocketBoy> pilots rairly check anyway
[08:38] <RocketBoy> we have a montly notam for the same site for flying rockets
[08:38] <RocketBoy> (much more dangerious)
[08:38] <Randomskk> is it 5 nautical miles wide though? :P
[08:38] <RocketBoy> and they regularly fly over the site during our launches
[08:39] <Randomskk> having a notam per flight means they don't even need to check, the notam says "launching today, phone for exact timings" or whatever
[08:39] <Randomskk> oh, nice of them
[08:39] <RocketBoy> even the red arrows once
[08:39] <Randomskk> be unfortunate if you hit one by accident
[08:40] <eroomde> and the rest
[08:41] <eroomde> well, anyway keep me posted Randomskk as i am looking to set up a balloon launching site somewhere in the oxfordshire region soon
[08:41] <Randomskk> will do
[08:41] <Randomskk> are you still on the cusf mailing list?
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[08:42] <RocketBoy> ok - so i think the 3month weekday notam I have was due to the one I raised for some schools work I was doing - and i told dm that finished weeks ago and he could remove the weekday notam
[08:42] <eroomde> Randomskk: I think so
[08:42] <Randomskk> dm is not the quickest of people to respond to this kind of thing. I'm sure he's very busy
[08:42] <eroomde> but not much activity the last week
[08:42] <Randomskk> eroomde: okay, cool. I'll keep you posted either way
[08:42] <eroomde> every time i've phoned hi, which is about 30 times over the last 4 or 5 years, he protests his business
[08:43] <eroomde> busyness?
[08:43] <Randomskk> indeed
[08:43] <RocketBoy> yep
[08:44] <RocketBoy> is that parly becuse of the increased number of people applying for permits
[08:44] <eroomde> it was just james coxon and us five years ago, as far as i know
[08:45] <Randomskk> though I don't imagine the increased numbers help him any :P
[08:45] <RocketBoy> perhaps we should merge the CUSF and EARS sites
[08:46] <eroomde> i think we'd be keen to keep churchill college forever
[08:46] <RocketBoy> id be happy provided ther was some way to garentee access any time of year
[08:47] <RocketBoy> its a lot to ask
[08:47] <RocketBoy> perhaps this is a subject for the UKHAS conference
[08:47] <Randomskk> I think the issue there is that cusf people can't get to ears because we don't really have cars, whereas for you to use churchill outside academic term would be a lot to ask churchill, especially with no students involved
[08:47] <eroomde> I'm not sure of a guaranteeing mechanism. It's so far never ever been a problem to launch any time (and the notam is 2nm radius so actually there are lots of fields around there you can also launch from) but to actually guarantee it could be tricky
[08:48] <Randomskk> eroomde: the guy on the phone said it was 5nm and sounded particularly upset about it. he made analogies to brick walls.
[08:48] <Randomskk> he may have been estimating and meant 5nm diameter, of course.
[08:48] <eroomde> it was two last year
[08:48] <eroomde> i know this for a fact
[08:48] <Randomskk> but yea, I'm not overly fussed about random pilots having a bit of a whine
[08:48] <Randomskk> okay, fair enough
[08:48] <eroomde> that's how we did sshadt
[08:49] <eroomde> we could shift the launch site to a place just west where there was no overflight over buildings on the predicted trajectory
[08:49] <RocketBoy> oh - hang on - just noticed that the EARS notam says SCHEDULE: SAT-SUN HJ
[08:49] <eroomde> yep
[08:49] <RocketBoy> so it is only we
[08:49] <SamSilver_> eroomde: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/multimedia/photos07-126_2.html
[08:49] <eroomde> but that could just be cos it was issued this weekend?
[08:49] <RocketBoy> ok - so I have to go back to the guy on that
[08:50] <eroomde> SamSilver_: cool huh?
[08:50] <SamSilver_> very
[08:51] <SamSilver_> i remember a java aplet that let you design your own supersonic chute
[08:51] <eroomde> the guy responsible for the ares re-entry parachute system is a bit of a legend
[08:51] <eroomde> and a brave man for trying to man rate a system in today's climate
[08:51] <SamSilver_> but it would only work if the pannel to somthing ration
[08:51] <eroomde> this is him (with the goatee) http://www.flickr.com/photos/aiaaevents/5839344651/in/set-72157626976030564
[08:51] <eroomde> ignore the pillock in the foreground
[08:51] <SamSilver_> fell in a close ratio
[08:52] <eroomde> SamSilver_: i would not trust that java applet in the least
[08:53] <SamSilver_> no!! it was for demostration to school kids how tricky it was to get it right
[08:54] <eroomde> on earth there's thankfully enough atmosphere that you can fairly conservatively get sub-sonic before deploying a proper chute
[08:54] <eroomde> there might be a supersonic drogue
[08:54] <eroomde> but for the space missions to other planets, designing super sonic chutes is akin to witchcraft
[08:57] <eroomde> back to notams/permits. Randomskk if you want to organize a face to face meeting with NATS to hammer all of this out, I am in
[08:58] <Randomskk> okay, cool
[08:58] <eroomde> we can get in writing exactly what the legal position is and the processes should be. whatever comes of that meeting, we will have an answer for the people who call us up
[08:58] <Randomskk> that would be good
[08:58] <Randomskk> are NATS likely to be in a position to give us written legal advice?
[08:59] <Randomskk> I guess that's what we'll find out.
[08:59] <eroomde> perhaps not, but they can certainly advise on the procedure
[08:59] <eroomde> might be worth persuading david miller to attend too
[08:59] <Randomskk> haha
[08:59] <Randomskk> that would be a herculean feat
[08:59] <Randomskk> david miller to come to an actual meeting?
[09:00] <Randomskk> we can always ask, I guess
[09:00] <eroomde> yup
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[09:31] <RocketBoy> Randomskk: this is the wall of notams the guy was going on about http://imagebin.org/165763
[09:31] <Randomskk> haha excellent
[09:32] <fsphil> I've been asking for a month-long notam/permission
[09:32] <fsphil> though it probably helps that I'm not near any built up areas
[09:32] <fsphil> I'd be happy to have the on-demand notam part - that's a great idea
[09:33] <RocketBoy> I can see what he means
[09:33] <Randomskk> it's a pretty big notam
[09:34] <RocketBoy> fsphil: I'll chat again to David Miller during the week and check to see if its an option - but i'm not sure it is
[09:34] <fsphil> with the limited land area here, it's foolish to get a short notam -- it lands in the ocean about 50% of the time
[09:35] <RocketBoy> yeah thats a problem in the UK
[09:36] <Randomskk> RocketBoy: I've emailed NATS, will let you know
[09:36] <RocketBoy> thanks
[09:38] <jonsowman> I'd quite like to be cc'ed on these emails if that's alright guys :)
[09:39] <jonsowman> sorry to be a pain
[09:40] <Randomskk> oh, I meant to cc cusf list
[09:40] <jonsowman> good plan
[09:41] <Randomskk> is now on the cusf list
[09:41] <jonsowman> thanks
[09:41] <jonsowman> :)
[09:41] <rjharrison> hey RocketBoy do you have the data from yesterdays launch
[09:42] <RocketBoy> only from the listener atm
[09:42] <RocketBoy> http://imagebin.org/165760
[09:43] <RocketBoy> cat was definitely head at one point
[09:44] <RocketBoy> ahead
[09:46] <rjharrison> rjharrison, I would like to be cc'ed on the notam stuff if possible
[09:46] <fsphil> they fell pretty quick
[09:46] <rjharrison> RocketBoy yep
[09:46] <fsphil> neat that the burst times where quite close too
[09:46] <Randomskk> I wonder if a group for notam operators is an idea
[09:46] <Randomskk> though I guess it's quite rarely needed
[09:47] <Randomskk> just for setting this mess up
[09:47] <Randomskk> might give something of a contact point for other orgs though
[09:47] <RocketBoy> yeah - i'm at a loss to explain how a smaller balloon with a faster ascent rate can burst higher
[09:47] <fsphil> the balloons where a different size?
[09:47] <RocketBoy> yes
[09:48] <fsphil> now that is interesting
[09:48] <RocketBoy> both totex
[09:48] <RocketBoy> 1200 and 1500
[09:48] <fsphil> unless the larger balloon had a defect
[09:48] <fsphil> or a heavier payload?
[09:48] <RocketBoy> could just be variablity
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[09:49] <RocketBoy> should be more or less the sae payload
[09:49] <rjharrison> the magick of H vs He
[09:49] <RocketBoy> (so we were told)
[09:49] <rjharrison> rolf
[09:49] <LazyLeopard> The H2 got you how much higher? ;)
[09:49] <RocketBoy> tis interesting - but needs a more scientific appreach
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[09:50] <RocketBoy> see graph
[09:50] <fsphil> Is it just as easy to get a cylinder of H2 as HE?
[09:50] <RocketBoy> nope
[09:50] <fsphil> thought not
[09:51] <RocketBoy> ypu normally have to be a busines to get H out of BOC
[09:51] <fsphil> my main concern with H2 is transporting it
[09:51] <RocketBoy> last time i tried
[09:51] <fsphil> I might be able to get some
[09:51] <fsphil> I know someone who does a lot of industrial stuff
[09:51] <fsphil> though I doubt they use H2
[09:52] <LazyLeopard> ...so about 5%, presumably from balloons filled to same lift and payloads of equal weight? ;)
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[09:53] <RocketBoy> humm - im gonna shut up now
[09:53] <LazyLeopard> The initial section of budgie's graph is a little odd...
[09:53] <RocketBoy> not sure how much they would wan't to com out before the program
[09:54] <RocketBoy> which section
[09:54] <RocketBoy> cos there is some data missing
[09:54] <LazyLeopard> The bit before 12:30 and below 5km
[09:54] <LazyLeopard> Presumably there were no fixes on the tracker in that gap...
[09:54] <RocketBoy> yeah - that just a streight line where its missing
[09:55] <RocketBoy> just gonna look in my fl-digi logs
[09:56] <rjharrison> RocketBoy can you email me a dump of those
[09:56] <RocketBoy> unfortunaly cause by me having to change cars
[09:56] <RocketBoy> will do when i can find them on da mac
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[10:17] <RocketBoy> \\\\\
[10:20] <Upu> hey rjharrison morning
[10:20] <Upu> are you about ?
[10:21] <rjharrison> sort of about to go out with wife and kids
[10:21] <Upu> ok it can wait
[10:21] <mattltm> Crap. Ive just blown up an arduino :(
[10:21] <Upu> just beep me thi sevening
[10:21] <Upu> this evening
[10:21] <rjharrison> Sure
[10:21] <rjharrison> Upu, did you see flickr
[10:22] <Upu> not yet
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[11:07] <cuddykid> solder time
[11:10] <fsphil> yay
[11:25] <cuddykid> I'll try and not to break anything like before!
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[11:40] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
[11:41] <fsphil> good aftermorningoonight
[11:41] <NigelMoby> Lol Ello Phil, how's you?
[11:42] <fsphil> not bad here, doing a bit of reading. you?
[11:43] <NigelMoby> Oo, not bad, just up...lol
[11:43] <fsphil> no launch?
[11:44] <NigelMoby> Nup, dads still not back
[11:45] <NigelMoby> And thinking bout it, this short notice prolly won't get enough trackers
[11:45] <fsphil> possibly
[11:45] <fsphil> I try to announce a few days before
[11:46] <NigelMoby> Yup, its going up next weekend if I have to walk to the bloody launch site!
[11:46] <fsphil> lol
[11:47] <fsphil> fill the balloon at home, carry it there :)
[11:47] <fsphil> we can track you on the way
[11:47] <NigelMoby> Lol
[11:47] <NigelMoby> Tell u wat .. even just 1 of them is a bitch to handle let alone 4
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[11:51] <NigelMoby> Hm weather looks a bit funky for the next few days, rain and very hot... 25c
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[11:55] <fsphil> good chance of some lightning
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[11:58] <NigelMoby> Yey, we haven't had much this summer
[11:59] <NigelMoby> Hi Steve
[12:01] <fsphil> not as much as last year, but that one intense storm still wins - best I've seen for years
[12:03] <NigelMoby> Oh aye, I love a gd storm so long as no1 gets hurt.
[12:04] <Darkside> NigelMoby: train here :D
[12:04] <Darkside> we could try and do a launch and recovery using entirely public transport
[12:04] <Darkside> i.e. walk to a high hill, track until near landing
[12:05] <Darkside> then catch train/bus to near landing site
[12:05] <Darkside> and walk
[12:05] <NigelMoby> Lol now that would be a mission!
[12:05] <Darkside> :D
[12:05] <Darkside> first launch ever using entirely public transport :d
[12:06] <NigelMoby> I think my nephew wants to tag along to
[12:06] <Darkside> then a car would be easier, heh
[12:07] <NigelMoby> Nah he's a young nipper, they're full of energy to walk n stuff lol
[12:07] <fsphil> can carry the yagi then
[12:07] <NigelMoby> Yup lol
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[12:07] <Darkside> hahaha
[12:08] <Darkside> teach him how to DF
[12:08] <NigelMoby> Lol
[12:08] <Darkside> i think we'll need at lewast 2 laptops with us
[12:08] <Darkside> so we ca ncontinue to track after one dies
[12:08] <Darkside> my phone will give us about 3 hours of wifi time
[12:08] <Darkside> ]and O2s coverage is pretty good
[12:09] <NigelMoby> Wonder way oranges coverage is like over there
[12:09] <NigelMoby> Wat*
[12:09] <Darkside> mm
[12:09] <Darkside> i can provide net for the day anyway
[12:10] <Darkside> i'll try and cache the area in google earth
[12:10] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[12:10] <Darkside> so if we get stuck in an area without 3g we can always get to the landing site
[12:10] <NigelMoby> Ah good idea
[12:11] <NigelMoby> Shame I can't a notam early I could get ATS-1 ready to fly in a few days :/
[12:12] <Darkside> i wanna fly mininut!
[12:12] <Darkside> :D
[12:12] <Darkside> its a fully-fledged flight computer!
[12:12] <Darkside> i want it to get its thermal rating :P (i.e. fly without any useful insulation)
[12:13] <NigelMoby> :o
[12:13] <fsphil> head over to Cambridge
[12:13] <Darkside> do they have the testing facilities?
[12:13] <Darkside> i'd like to put it in a thermal test chamber
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[12:13] <Darkside> NigelMoby: all the components are rated to -40. i'm just not sure if my construction is rated to -40
[12:14] <fsphil> someone here has .. RocketBoy_ I think
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[12:14] <NigelMoby> -40 .. hmm
[12:14] <Darkside> i'm sure they'll work lower tha nthat
[12:15] <NigelMoby> Ntx2?
[12:15] <Darkside> i know it gets to -70 degC around the tropopause
[12:15] <Darkside> NigelMoby: yep
[12:15] <Darkside> it'll drift like hell
[12:15] <Darkside> but it'll still work
[12:15] <NigelMoby> Shuld be fine then.
[12:15] <fsphil> would be a good test for the auto tuner thingy
[12:15] <Darkside> yeah
[12:16] <Darkside> as it'll drift a LOT
[12:16] <NigelMoby> True.
[12:16] <Darkside> i noticed my NTX2 was sitting arounfd 434.690 when i tested it the other day
[12:16] <Darkside> actually wiat, i think thats my funcube dongle being weird
[12:16] <Darkside> i need to calibrate it
[12:16] <NigelMoby> I can get us to cam and back if my brotherinlaw is free
[12:17] <Darkside> NigelMoby: i was planning on trainint to cambridge at some point
[12:17] <fsphil> using the audio directly from the fcd in fldigi Darkside?
[12:17] <Darkside> taking a few days off work
[12:17] <Darkside> fsphil: yeah
[12:17] <fsphil> yea I noticed that too
[12:17] <Darkside> you need to calibrate out the error
[12:17] <fsphil> I think fldigi is using the wrong channel
[12:17] <Darkside> that too
[12:17] <Darkside> its getting the image
[12:17] <NigelMoby> Brb thus Lil keyboard is driving me nuts
[12:18] <Darkside> i had to use Rv on mine i think
[12:18] <fsphil> I think each channel is equivalent of LSB and USB
[12:18] <Darkside> kind of
[12:19] <fsphil> I need to read up on the I/Q thing
[12:19] <Darkside> well one is the in-phase, one is the quadrature phase
[12:20] <Darkside> aaaaaanyway, i'll have the FCD bac ktonight, i'll try and do some testing
[12:20] <Darkside> i can use my handheld as a reasonablyt well calibrated signal source
[12:21] NigeyS (~EcEnTiAl@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[12:21] <NigeyS> better, a proper keyboard!
[12:21] <NigeyS> tie you're key round ure neck tonight DS :p
[12:21] <Darkside> haha
[12:21] <Darkside> yep
[12:21] <Darkside> i'm gonna try and attach it firmly to my belt
[12:22] <NigeyS> lol!
[12:22] <NigeyS> jonsowman, about ?
[12:22] <jonsowman> yup NigeyS
[12:22] <NigeyS> hey jon, how are you? :D
[12:22] <Darkside> music i would kill to hear live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqg3l3r_DRI
[12:22] <jonsowman> fine thanks, yourself?
[12:22] <NigeyS> pretty good :D
[12:23] <jonsowman> good good :)
[12:23] <cuddykid> black box 1/2 soldered :)
[12:24] <cuddykid> a properly tinned tip helps sooo much
[12:24] <fsphil> oh yes
[12:25] <NigeyS> hehe you should see some of my tips from when i first started soldering..
[12:25] <Darkside> >_>
[12:25] <Darkside> WHAT DID YOU DO TO THAT POOR SOLDERING IRON
[12:25] <NigeyS> haha almost killed it!
[12:26] <Darkside> :<
[12:26] <NigeyS> tell you what i found helpful to ..
[12:26] <NigeyS> the stripboard thats pre tinned, instead of copper
[12:26] <NigeyS> much easier to work with
[12:26] <fsphil> flux -- the answer to all your solder problems :)
[12:27] <NigeyS> got that to, is it supposed to spit at me though? :p
[12:27] <Darkside> yes
[12:27] <Darkside> :P
[12:27] <Darkside> but it makes life oh so muc heasier
[12:27] <NigeyS> oh aye definately
[12:27] <Darkside> i still need to learn how to solder TQFPs properlyt though
[12:27] <Darkside> i'll be soldeirng a TQFP-100 on monday >_>
[12:27] <Darkside> tomorrow!
[12:28] <fsphil> no drinking the night before
[12:28] <Darkside> heh
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[12:28] <Darkside> i'll be soldering an ATMega2560 onto a TOPCAT prototype board
[12:29] <fsphil> I like that chip, 4 uarts
[12:29] <NigeyS> that'll be fun
[12:29] <Darkside> fsphil: yeah, we're using 2 of them
[12:29] <Darkside> one for debug, one for actual communication
[12:29] <Darkside> and i've added functionailty into Arduinio's UART handling stuff
[12:30] <Darkside> added a callback, so i can replace the ISR for a UART with my own code
[12:30] <Darkside> Serial2.addcallback(myfunction)
[12:30] <fsphil> "The Ignore-o-sphere .. the bit to high for balloons and too low for spacecraft" .. on the amsat conference
[12:30] <Darkside> lolwut
[12:30] <Darkside> link meee
[12:30] <Darkside> also they shoul dbe talking about ukube soon
[12:31] <fsphil> http://fb.me/Ybxy7ti3
[12:31] <fsphil> there was a talk on the funcube dongle yesterday
[12:31] <Darkside> yeah i already have one
[12:31] <Darkside> lol
[12:32] <Darkside> i should probably be at this convention
[12:32] <Darkside> oh well
[12:32] <fsphil> I got an early one ... apparently they've improved the crystal since then. meh :)
[12:32] <NigeyS> oh here's a Q
[12:32] <Darkside> mm i think the crystal in mine is the new one
[12:32] <NigeyS> atmega644 wont work with the arduino ide no ?
[12:32] <Darkside> it probably will, with some hacks
[12:32] <NigeyS> ahh oki
[12:33] <Darkside> i still need to look into making the arduino bootloader handle an external crystal failure
[12:34] <NigeyS> haha that'll be fun
[12:34] <Darkside> well i want it to handle a crystal failure, drop to the internal oscillator, and send an error packet to the platform to tell them
[12:35] <fsphil> how would you do that without messing with fuses?
[12:35] <Darkside> no idea
[12:35] <fsphil> aaah
[12:36] <Darkside> it may not be possible
[12:36] <Darkside> i know the xmega dan do dynamic clock switching
[12:36] <Darkside> but the ATMega might not
[12:37] <fsphil> I think it might start with whatever the fuses tells it to use, and if that doesn't work it won't do anything
[12:39] <Darkside> hmm
[12:39] <Darkside> i wonder if i can make it boot up at 8MHz then switch to 16MHz
[12:40] <Darkside> shit, its fuse bits only
[12:40] <Darkside> i cant change clock from software
[12:40] <Randomskk> indeed
[12:40] <Randomskk> you want an xmega or an arm or something
[12:41] <Darkside> yeah
[12:41] <Darkside> xmega will do that
[12:41] <Darkside> too late to change it all now
[12:41] <Darkside> will just have to hope the resonator we're using will survive
[12:41] <Darkside> tbh i dont think that'll be much of a problem - it's a monolithic resonator
[12:42] <Darkside> it could drift though - its spec says 0.5% drift over -40 to +85
[12:42] <Randomskk> are you relying on the avr's clock being precise?
[12:43] <fsphil> that's to be expected -- is timing critical?
[12:43] <Darkside> not really
[12:43] <Darkside> only the UART is really dependent on teh clock
[12:43] <Darkside> and thats running at 9600 baud
[12:43] <Darkside> so we have a bit of leeway
[12:43] <Randomskk> 0.5% is a lot of leeway at 9600 baud
[12:43] <Darkside> I2C is clocked from the other end, so we can get away with our clock doing weird things
[12:43] <Randomskk> i2c is synchronous anyway
[12:43] <Randomskk> doesn't matter
[12:43] <Darkside> so 0.5% drift could kill the UART?
[12:44] <Randomskk> no, no
[12:44] <Darkside> i thought they could operate at +- a few %
[12:44] <Randomskk> I mean that 0.5% is basically noise margin
[12:44] <Darkside> oh :P
[12:44] <Randomskk> you'd likely be fine at 115200
[12:44] <Darkside> hehe
[12:45] <Darkside> we're keeping teh data rate low because we don't need ot running high
[12:45] <Darkside> and we want as much time as possible between bytes to deal with other things, like I2C messages
[12:45] <Randomskk> yea, makes sense
[12:47] <Darkside> i've already written the UARTs ISR to be relatively fast
[12:47] <Darkside> it does do some on-the-fly processing of the received data
[12:47] <Darkside> i.e. checks if its valid data, and pulls out some data the payload needs for operation (number of sats it can see, etc)
[12:48] <cuddykid> done :D
[12:49] <cuddykid> testing after lunch and a trip to maplin lol
[12:52] <Darkside> wow
[12:53] <Darkside> he just slammed the QB50 guys
[12:53] <Darkside> with some VERY good points
[13:00] <Darkside> OH GOD i want to kill some of the audience
[13:00] <Darkside> seriously
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> I have just found ou tthat the roll of plastic in my attic is not 200grams/square meter *1.2m
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> It's a roll of 250m of intricately folded 4m circumference layflat tubing of 25gsm.
[13:11] <fsphil> missed that Darkside
[13:12] <Darkside> just some ignorant people
[13:12] <Darkside> 'if it can receive 1000 cw signals then why not 1000 1200 baud signals?'
[13:13] <fsphil> aah
[13:13] <Darkside> CW is a LOT simpler to demod...
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[13:18] Action: SpeedEvil ponders schemes involving about a cubic meter of hydrogen, and two 5m lengths heat-sealed together.
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> 25km should be easy.
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> I can hit 35km, but only if I use all of it and about 30m^3 of hydrogen.
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> Or it could lift me to about 25km. :)
[13:30] <fsphil> do it :)
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> Err - no.
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> Well - maybe the small ones. :)
[13:42] Action: NigeyS kicks noaa
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[13:53] <NigeyS> hey jgrahamc
[13:53] <jgrahamc> Afternoon all. Sorry I missed the fun yesterday.
[13:53] <jgrahamc> Hey NigeyS
[13:53] <Upu> afternon jgrahamc
[13:53] <NigeyS> you missed a real treat
[13:54] <jgrahamc> Sounds like it. Family obligations unfortunately.
[13:54] <jgrahamc> Hey Upu
[13:54] <jgrahamc> How'd it go Upu?
[13:54] <NigeyS> ello upuuuuuuuuu
[13:54] <Upu> text book
[13:54] <jgrahamc> I was so hoping to be one of the trackers of your flight
[13:54] <Upu> lovely day
[13:54] <jgrahamc> Awesome!
[13:54] <jgrahamc> No tree trouble?
[13:54] <Upu> wasn't my flight
[13:54] <Upu> I was just an assistant :)
[13:54] <jgrahamc> Ah.
[13:54] <NigeyS> pylons .. lol
[13:54] <jgrahamc> It was something special for TV?
[13:54] <Upu> no but one payload did bounce of a pylon on the way down
[13:54] <Upu> yeah
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[13:55] <NigeyS> Upu, did the cameras survive ok after hitting the pylon ?
[13:55] <Upu> yeah no issues at all I think it was actually the parachute that twanged it
[13:55] <jgrahamc> A high-voltage line?
[13:55] <NigeyS> ahh
[13:55] <Upu> yup
[13:55] <jgrahamc> Whoa
[13:55] <NigeyS> fried cat!
[13:56] <Upu> yeah
[13:56] <jgrahamc> Did it get damaged?
[13:56] <Upu> nope
[13:56] <Upu> I'd love to show you the footage
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> How did you know it twanged?
[13:56] <Upu> but I don't think we are suppose to have it
[13:56] <jgrahamc> That's pretty scary. What is this James May's Man Lab business?
[13:57] <Upu> its a TV program
[13:57] <NigeyS> it was james mays launch
[13:57] <Upu> you know James May ?
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[13:57] <SpeedEvil> At least powerlines is drama. :)
[13:57] <jgrahamc> I've heard of him
[13:57] <Randomskk> eroomde: hah, this book I'm reading "data analysis with open source tools" says numpy "has its own share of problems. The project has a
[13:57] <NigeyS> hehe
[13:57] <Randomskk> ...sigh.
[13:57] <Upu> don't think they'll show that bit :)
[13:57] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, ya know much about radiators ?
[13:58] <jgrahamc> I see on the tracker how close it was to the pylon
[13:58] <Randomskk> eroomde: "has its own share of problems. The project has a tendency to emphasize quantity over quality: the number of features is very large, but the design appears overly complicated and is often awkward to use. Edge and error cases are not always handled properly. On the scientific level, NumPy/SciPy feels amateurish."
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Vacuum heat radiators, car raiators, house radiators, intentional radiators in raio law?
[13:58] <jgrahamc> So when's the pink box going up
[13:58] <NigeyS> house..
[13:58] <jgrahamc> Upu?
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Somewhat, yes.
[13:58] <Upu> no idea atm
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Most important is to first work out accurately your heat load.
[13:58] <NigeyS> seems 1 of ours has somehow ruptured
[13:58] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: That's unusual
[13:59] <Hiena> Hmmm, today's question: If a terminator unit rides a bicycle, is it legal as a bicycle or as a motorbike?
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> Not leaking out the valves?
[13:59] <Upu> need to speak to the land owner next week
[13:59] <Upu> then notam
[13:59] <Upu> etc etc
[13:59] <NigeyS> very, it has formed a bubble between the plastic coasting and the metal
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[13:59] <NigeyS> nope valves are all good
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: I'd check the system is properly inhibited
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> how long has it been since installing?
[13:59] <NigeyS> 3 years old tops
[13:59] <NigeyS> serviced every year
[14:00] <NigeyS> never seen that kind of thing happen before, normally just leaky valves where the pins stick
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> You own the property?
[14:00] <NigeyS> no, rented, but landlord is ok about replacing it if needs be
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[14:00] <SpeedEvil> I would put something under it to handle a burst
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> And a leak
[14:01] <NigeyS> yup, have a bowl there, plumber is due tuesday iirc
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[14:01] <SpeedEvil> Good.
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> Odd
[14:01] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/5yu2by
[14:01] <NigeyS> there it is
[14:01] <NigeyS> very .. weird
[14:01] <NigeyS> inside the bubble were a few drops of water
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> That's gotta be a manufacturing defect
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> If the system is properly inhibited.
[14:03] <NigeyS> must be
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> And sealed with the right sort of pipe
[14:04] <NigeyS> will get the plumber to check it all, pointless replacing the radiator if its a fault elsewhere
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[14:04] <RocketBoy_> NigeyS: when are you planning on launching?
[14:04] <NigeyS> no sooner than saturday
[14:07] <cuddykid> time to test the logger
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[14:13] <elyptikus> does
[14:13] <kristianpaul> Any one here is using glonass for his navigation stuff?
[14:16] <elyptikus> is www.habhub.org/predict working on your computer?
[14:17] <NigeyS> its not working
[14:17] <elyptikus> why?
[14:17] <NigeyS> noaa site must be down, the gfs files arent downloading i dont think
[14:18] <Randomskk> hmm the noaa site appears to be up
[14:19] <Randomskk> the opendap service might be down
[14:19] <Randomskk> yea. try again later I guess.
[14:20] <elyptikus> do you know how long the server is already down?
[14:23] <elyptikus> ???
[14:25] <RocketBoy_> NigeyS: Ta - good luck when you do fly
[14:25] <NigeyS> tnx stsve :D
[14:25] <NigeyS> steve*
[14:28] <Randomskk> elyptikus: nope. we should really get a monitoring dashboard
[14:28] <Randomskk> in fact a sexy dashboard is such a good idea I'm adding a user story for it right now. maybe it'l be done in the next year >_>
[14:29] <NigeyS> Randomskk
[14:29] <NigeyS> its been down since friday on and off
[14:29] <NigeyS> jon has cleared the cache so must be a noaa issue? :|
[14:29] <Randomskk> yea I guess so
[14:35] <Upu> it was up and down yesterday
[14:35] <Upu> do we grab the data on every run ?
[14:35] <Randomskk> no, it's cached
[14:35] <Randomskk> kind-of, and where-possible, and no-promises
[14:35] <Upu> k
[14:35] <Randomskk> the NOAA servers actually specify "don't cache" in their http headers
[14:36] <Randomskk> but that's stupid, so the predict.py script monkeypatches python's httplib to override cache control on gfs data
[14:36] <Randomskk> sometimes that breaks.
[14:36] <Randomskk> the whole mess is due some refactoring sometime
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[14:53] <cuddykid> wooo, SD card logger works :)
[14:53] <NigeyS> good work cuddykid
[14:53] <cuddykid> thanks NigeyS :)
[14:54] <cuddykid> next - either solar cells or radios.. hmm
[14:54] <NigeyS> radios!
[14:54] <cuddykid> agree, they are more fun!
[14:54] <NigeyS> indeed
[14:56] <Upu> RocketBoy_ are you about ?
[15:00] <RocketBoy_> yep
[15:00] <Upu> PM again
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[15:10] <mattltm> ot sure. Ill check next time I boot.
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[15:58] <cuddykid> RocketBoy_: is it possible to price the 2 balloons up now just because I'm looking to get order in tonight/tomorrow! thanks
[16:01] <WillDuckworth> hey cuddykid - looking for a launch this week?
[16:01] <cuddykid> Hi Will! Hoping for launch in next 2 weeks - probs got another week of work to do on it yet though
[16:01] <cuddykid> just got SD logger up & running, got radios to do now
[16:01] <cuddykid> how about your launch?
[16:02] <WillDuckworth> yeah - i'm in that bracket too..... thinking of ditching my current gps and going with the lassen iq
[16:02] <WillDuckworth> good news on the logger
[16:03] <cuddykid> cool, lassen iQ does the job fairly well
[16:03] <WillDuckworth> did you do any resistor wizardry for the IO pins on the arduino for it?
[16:03] <cuddykid> now i've got the SD stuff off the breadboard I can begin prototyping the radio stuff
[16:03] <cuddykid> rum, I'll check..
[16:04] <cuddykid> *urm (they've put the damn autocorrect that's on the iPhones in Lion now! )
[16:04] <cuddykid> I've got 2 resistors in - I'll try and find out where they're going to/from
[16:05] <cuddykid> they're 10k ohm by the looks of it
[16:05] <WillDuckworth> cool, probably to step the 5v TTL down to 3.3v?
[16:06] <cuddykid> probably - i'll just check
[16:06] <cuddykid> I'll post screenshot of my schematic
[16:07] <WillDuckworth> cheers, just double checking.
[16:09] <cuddykid> it's the connector top left - http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/screenshot20110731at170.png/
[16:11] <WillDuckworth> cool. looks like it'll be ok straight off the arduino, keeps it simple. thanks, think i'll bite the bullet and grab one
[16:12] <cuddykid> no probs, yeah, recommend getting it from DPIE - ceo guy is top man!
[16:12] <cuddykid> http://www.dpie.com/gps/lasseniq.html
[16:19] <Darkside> fuuck lassen iqs...
[16:19] <Darkside> get a ublox...
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> heh
[16:20] <Darkside> I am biased, howecer
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> well said
[16:20] <Laurenceb_> lassen sucks
[16:20] <Darkside> but uBloxes have worked incredibly well for.me
[16:20] <WillDuckworth> i've gone for the lassen as my current ublox is giving me grief....
[16:20] <Darkside> and even work in model rockets!
[16:21] <Darkside> WillDuckworth: what grief
[16:21] <Darkside> we are here to help
[16:21] <Darkside> and to convert you to the way of uBlox
[16:21] <WillDuckworth> ta, think it might be antenna? not sure as it doesn't seem to get a fix. I'll get link
[16:22] <NigeyS> lassen is also power hungry
[16:22] <WillDuckworth> http://store.diydrones.com/GS407_U_Blox5_GPS_4Hz_p/spk-gps-gs407.htm
[16:22] <NigeyS> 90mw
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> mine isnt
[16:22] <Darkside> make sure you have the battery pin either grounded, or connected to supply
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[16:22] <NigeyS> Laurenceb, ive never got mine below 87mw :|
[16:22] <Laurenceb_> im using fsa03 on dactyl
[16:23] <Darkside> if battery is floating, it wont get lock
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[16:23] <cuddykid> soldered solar cells
[16:23] <NigeyS> unless im missing a powersave command somewhere
[16:23] <cuddykid> lets see what these bad boys produce!
[16:23] <Darkside> note
[16:23] <Darkside> cudd
[16:23] <Darkside> fuuuu
[16:23] <NigeyS> wb Darkside lol
[16:23] <cuddykid> lol
[16:24] <Darkside> apologies, am on phone
[16:24] <Darkside> excuse brevity
[16:24] <cuddykid> will it damage solar cell if shorted?
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> No.
[16:25] <Laurenceb_> 0x7F eh?
[16:25] <cuddykid> thanks SpeedEvil
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> For partially shaded arrays, perhaps
[16:25] <Darkside> WillDuckworth: make sure the battery pin is connected. and to be sure about lock, monitor the serial output
[16:25] <Laurenceb_> st-link is so cheap, but no linux support :(
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> Especially large ones.
[16:25] <Darkside> see if it gets any sats at all
[16:25] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: eeyup
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> For example - I have a solar cell that has a 10V Vr.
[16:26] <Darkside> I had to program my stm discovrry using a ftdi adaptor
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> i guess you can hack atollic
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> under windows
[16:26] <WillDuckworth> cheers Darkside - will have a play with the battery lines. using the u-center software for debuggin
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> If you shade this in a string of other cells that are lit, then it gets 2-3 times as hot as it would in the sun
[16:26] <Laurenceb_> atm im using serial programming
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> That's assuming that it doesn't hot-spot.
[16:26] <cuddykid> ahh right
[16:26] <cuddykid> brb - going to take some measurements in the sun!
[16:27] <Darkside> tip; dont use solar panels as current sinks
[16:27] Action: SpeedEvil is still trying to work out panel design.
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> for sat arrays they stick diodes in there
[16:27] <Laurenceb_> if some will be sheilded
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> I'm pondering 6V 15A or so panels.
[16:29] <Darkside> wow, what size?
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> about 60cm*80cm
[16:30] <Darkside> ajh
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> Coincidentally the size of old bus windows I have.
[16:30] <Darkside> too big for a payload lol
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> Slightly!
[16:30] <Darkside> I should try and acquire some cubesat panels
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> Though bare solar cells are 6g for 4A 0.5V
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> wow http://www.versaloon.com/doc/versaloon/doc_versaloon_programmer_platform.html#doc_versaloon_programmer_stm32
[16:32] <cuddykid> hmm, multimeter still refusing to read current both in fused & unfused mode
[16:32] <cuddykid> getting up to 8v out of them in evening sun
[16:32] <Darkside> y
[16:32] <Darkside> what load are yoj using
[16:33] <cuddykid> nothing, just connecting multimeter in series to short circuit
[16:33] <cuddykid> probably horrendously wrong lol
[16:33] <Darkside> prolly not good for the panels to meazure thay
[16:34] <Darkside> put a chunky resistor on
[16:34] <cuddykid> then measure pd across?
[16:34] <cuddykid> and use v=ir .. then bobs your uncle etc.. ?!
[16:34] <Darkside> mmm
[16:34] <cuddykid> will try
[16:34] <Darkside> or use multimeter in series
[16:38] <cuddykid> Darkside: would 10K be about ok?
[16:43] <WillDuckworth> trying ublox now. got 2 satellites, i'm set up in the middle of the garden
[16:44] <fsphil> you may have some local interference
[16:44] <SamSilver> cuddykid: do you have an RF dummy load? if so use that
[16:44] <cuddykid> SamSilver: nope
[16:45] <cuddykid> hmm that can't be right - not even 1 mA out of pv cells
[16:46] <cuddykid> readings - resistor = 9.84K ; pd across resistor 7.17V
[16:46] <SamSilver> the resistor needs to be able to take the wattage
[16:46] <cuddykid> currently, I just have the panel shorted with 1 10k resistor in series
[16:47] <SamSilver> 10k is very high
[16:47] <cuddykid> would 1k be better?
[16:47] <SamSilver> what are the pannels rated at in terms of watts
[16:47] <cuddykid> not sure - I'll have a look
[16:48] <cuddykid> http://www.solarbotics.com/products/scc3766/
[16:51] <SamSilver> 100 ohms
[16:51] <cuddykid> thanks, with 10 ohms, got just over 20mA
[16:53] <WillDuckworth> would you believe it.... i've got a fix with the ublox
[16:53] <SamSilver> full sun
[16:54] <SamSilver> http://www.solarbotics.com/assets/datasheets/solarbotics_solarcell_2007-solstice_tests.pdf
[16:56] <cuddykid> so best results with about 500 ohm load?
[16:56] <WillDuckworth> bbl
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[16:58] <SamSilver> page 4 of that link shows a nice graph http://www.solarbotics.com/assets/datasheets/solarbotics_solarcell_2007-solstice_tests.pdf
[16:59] <cuddykid> ahh, lovely!
[16:59] <SamSilver> 250 ish
[17:00] <cuddykid> 150ish?
[17:01] <cuddykid> mine is the 3766 (big one :P )
[17:01] <SamSilver> the graph is log
[17:01] <SamSilver> oh ops
[17:01] <RocketBoy_> max power transfer is about 150 ohm
[17:01] <SamSilver> was looking at 3733
[17:02] <cuddykid> thanks :D
[17:02] <cuddykid> will get a 47 ohm and 100ohm in series
[17:03] <SamSilver> cuddykid: are you going to fly them?
[17:03] <cuddykid> yeah, was planning just to log the power outputted on 1st flight
[17:03] <cuddykid> got 2 of them
[17:03] <RocketBoy_> for that level of lighti - I imagine at other levels different values will give max power transfer
[17:04] <SamSilver> if you used a sun tracker, like a line follower you could have them pointing at the sun all the time
[17:04] <cuddykid> hmm, wonder if there is variable resistor that could be controlled by arduino
[17:04] <cuddykid> SamSilver: sounds complicated!
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Servo + pot
[17:05] <cuddykid> was just going to embed them into top of payload box
[17:05] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil, nice!
[17:05] <cuddykid> will investigate
[17:05] <Darkside> there are controllable resistors
[17:06] <Darkside> but none of them will be able to dissipate enough power for this kind of testing
[17:06] <SamSilver> afk
[17:06] <Darkside> your only option would be some say of switching between resistor banks using relays, or somesuch
[17:06] <Darkside> actually a relay network would be a cool idea
[17:06] <Darkside> a way of making a controllable load
[17:08] <cuddykid> nice idea
[17:10] <Darkside> then you can use diffferent resistor combinations to produce arbitrary resistances
[17:10] <RocketBoy_> try a power transistor
[17:10] <cuddykid> hmm, I'm getting fairly awful results - yes not in direct sunlight, but still nowhere near av power output. getting 0.26v with 145 ohm
[17:11] <RocketBoy_> as a variable load
[17:11] <RocketBoy_> with emitter resistor to measure current
[17:11] <RocketBoy_> measure voltage on the collector
[17:12] <RocketBoy_> vary the current into the base
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[17:12] <RocketBoy_> variable load job done
[17:13] <Darkside> depends how much power can be dissipated on the transistor
[17:13] <Darkside> but for small panels, yeah
[17:15] <RocketBoy_> obviously choose the transistor power level for the solar cells
[17:15] <Darkside> or cool with LNO2
[17:15] <Darkside> LN2*
[17:16] <RocketBoy_> & approprite heatsink
[17:16] <cuddykid> huh, just stuck it under table lamp and max pd is 0.8v with resistance of 145ohm - giving current of 5.5mA ?!? These are rated at about 45mA :S
[17:17] <NigeyS> Darkside, i think my 3.5m/s ascent rate for the green balloons is a bit adventurous, i just let the test balloon go walkies, and it was awfully slow get a decent altitude
[17:17] <cuddykid> oh the graph with their testing it shows I should be getting about 35mA at least
[17:18] <jcoxon> cuddykid, i find artifical light not as good as outside for solar cells
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[17:20] <SamSilver> cuddykid: save this and read later RE the light following solar cells http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1168000226
[17:20] <SamSilver> afk
[17:21] <cuddykid> cheers
[17:24] <RocketBoy_> jcoxon: yo
[17:24] <RocketBoy_> any idea where to find fldigi log files on oSX
[17:24] <RocketBoy_> ?
[17:24] <RocketBoy_> (got a nasty feeling)
[17:26] <Darkside> NigeyS: heh
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[17:26] <NigeyS> impressed mind, it was inflated for 3 days, and still managed the same 52gram lift just now .. so not much loss of he
[17:28] <Darkside> heh
[17:29] <Darkside> well its a foil balloon, i'm sure it'll loose less helium than a rubber/latex one
[17:29] <Darkside> still, doing a full launch would be good :D
[17:29] <Darkside> i reeeeeeealy want to fly a mininut
[17:30] <Darkside> even if its just glued to the outside of your box, exposed to the elements :d
[17:30] <NigeyS> yeppers, full launch is pretty much sorted :D
[17:30] <Darkside> any dates yet?
[17:30] <NigeyS> itll be after the 14th
[17:30] <NigeyS> but before you head back obviously
[17:31] <Darkside> thats basically one weekend
[17:31] <Darkside> unless we do it during the week
[17:31] <Darkside> i fly out on the 28th
[17:32] <NigeyS> looks like itll be the 20th
[17:32] <Darkside> ok
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[17:32] <Darkside> that means i'll probably go to london on the weekend of the 13th
[17:32] <NigeyS> londons boring :p
[17:32] <Darkside> i want to see the hackerspace!
[17:33] <Darkside> and the museums!
[17:33] <NigeyS> ahh
[17:33] <NigeyS> the science museum is good
[17:33] <fsphil> ooh it really is
[17:33] <Darkside> ooh ok
[17:34] <fsphil> natural history museum is really nifty
[17:34] <NigeyS> yup, havent been there for a long time though :(
[17:34] <Darkside> i want to go to those two
[17:34] <NigeyS> think i was in high school when i last went
[17:35] Action: Darkside looks at the science museum map
[17:35] <fsphil> yea I was there for a school trip
[17:35] <fsphil> I was in Tring a few years back and didn't realise they had a place there too
[17:35] <Randomskk> Darkside: when you go to the science museum
[17:35] <NigeyS> prolly the only school trip i actually enjoyed mind
[17:35] <Randomskk> be super sure to check out Listening Post
[17:35] <Randomskk> it's on the first floor temporary exhibition space
[17:35] <Randomskk> because 1) it's super duper amazong, like really really good
[17:35] <Darkside> what is it?
[17:35] <Randomskk> I think it's my favourite science museum exhibit
[17:36] <Randomskk> also b) to get to it you walk through all the radio stuff
[17:36] <mattltm> Science museum rocks!
[17:36] <Randomskk> from really old ship radios to amateur radi ostuf
[17:36] <NigeyS> hah cool!!
[17:36] <Randomskk> which is also cool :P
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[17:36] <Darkside> ooooh ok
[17:36] <fsphil> you know, I might have a visit to those after the ukhas conference
[17:36] <NigeyS> fsphil, might as well while ure there
[17:36] <Randomskk> http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/galleries/listening_post.aspx
[17:36] <Darkside> oh man they have apollo 10
[17:37] <Randomskk> science museum is so cool
[17:37] <eroomde> good cafe too
[17:37] <Randomskk> do you know what weekend you're planning on going?
[17:37] <Darkside> Listening Post is a .dynamic portrait. of online communication, displaying uncensored fragments of text, sampled in real-time, from public internet chatrooms and bulletin boards
[17:37] <eroomde> good for a random place to code
[17:37] <Darkside> oh what
[17:37] <Darkside> Randomskk: preobably 13th
[17:37] <Darkside> 13th-14th august
[17:38] <Darkside> what irc channels is it pulling data from...
[17:38] <fsphil> lol
[17:38] <Randomskk> haha I always try to spot nicks I recognise but so far nothing
[17:40] <fsphil> wish the planetarium was still there
[17:40] <NigeyS> they got rid of it? :O
[17:40] <fsphil> yea
[17:40] <Darkside> aww
[17:41] <cuddykid> the smaller the channel spacing for radios the better? (well, more dist expected)
[17:41] <NigeyS> pfff what kind of science museum doesnt have a planetarium!
[17:41] <Darkside> chris_99: eh?
[17:41] <Darkside> cuddykid: *
[17:41] <fsphil> "the building that once housed the London Planetarium houses the Marvel Superheroes 4D attraction"
[17:41] <Darkside> you mean the less bandwidth the better?
[17:41] <NigeyS> ffs
[17:41] <NigeyS> ditched the universe for super heroes .. pfffff
[17:41] <cuddykid> Darkside: yeah, it calls it spacing on the datasheet
[17:42] <cuddykid> basically, would 12.5Khz be better than 100Khz?!
[17:42] <Randomskk> uhm
[17:42] <Randomskk> better is quite a vague term there
[17:42] <Darkside> depends on the signal bandwidth
[17:42] <fsphil> shouldn't matter
[17:42] <Randomskk> you could fit more data into 100KHz, theoretically speaking
[17:42] <cuddykid> would it affect the dist achieved?
[17:42] <Randomskk> or, if you're only using 500Hz ish for RTTY, larger channel spacing will reduce the liklihood of interference by other users with the same channel spacings
[17:42] <Darkside> only if the bandwidth is different
[17:43] <cuddykid> oh right, thanks :)
[17:43] <Darkside> cuddykid: RX distance is dependent on SNR. if you have a signal which has a very small bandwidth, it is more likely to have a higher SNR over that bandwidth
[17:43] <Darkside> this is why we use FSK modes, not AFSK (i.e. Audio FSK , modulated onto FM)
[17:43] <fsphil> ^^ I believe this is why rtty over USB is better than FM modes
[17:43] <Darkside> yep
[17:44] <fsphil> someone asked me that once, and I couldn't give them an answer. was thinking about it the other day
[17:44] <Darkside> you would be spreading the same total power over a wide bandwidt, necessitating a higher SNR for a good decode
[17:44] <Randomskk> hang on, though
[17:44] <fsphil> the FM signal is 15khz, the rtty signal is only about 500hz
[17:44] <Randomskk> with RTTY
[17:44] <Randomskk> if you do FM AFSK at a constant tone
[17:44] <fsphil> less if you discount the space between the mark and space frequencies
[17:44] <Randomskk> oh, I guess you're still modulating it a lot.
[17:44] <fsphil> yea
[17:44] <Darkside> you can think of RTTY as a constant carrier
[17:45] <fsphil> any noise within that 15khz will add to it
[17:45] <Darkside> where all the power in your signal is going into that carrier
[17:45] <Darkside> it just happens to change frequency every 1/300th of a second
[17:45] <Darkside> but all the power only goes into one frequency at any point in time
[17:45] <Darkside> all 10mW or whatever
[17:45] <Darkside> you get more dB/Hz
[17:46] <Darkside> (SNR per unit bandwidth)
[17:46] <Randomskk> that is instantaneously true for FM too :P
[17:46] <Darkside> i guess
[17:46] <Darkside> but doing AFSK over FM is wasteful for us
[17:46] <Darkside> when we have a set power limit
[17:46] <fsphil> it's wasteful in general
[17:46] <Darkside> i'd like to know why they chose to use AFSK over FM for APRS
[17:47] <Darkside> i guess they started with using existing FM radios, and never looked back
[17:47] <fsphil> cheaper hardware probably
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: you can't discount the space in the middle. The only relevant noise with SSB mode is that that falls in either filter.
[17:47] <Darkside> i've always been interested in how you implement a FSK demodulator
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Well - and any signal that causes the AGC to come in lowering the SNR of the wanted signal
[17:47] <Darkside> the old way is to use a PLL
[17:48] <Darkside> new way woul dbe to use a FFT with a length around the symbol rate
[17:48] <Darkside> then look at the bin with the highest power
[17:48] <SamSilver> Darkside: would that make olvia the better option
[17:48] <Darkside> SamSilver: olivia is good for other reasons
[17:48] <Darkside> it has FEC, for one
[17:49] <SamSilver> correction
[17:49] <Darkside> but you trade data rates for reliability
[17:49] <fsphil> rtty + fec would be nifty
[17:49] <Darkside> its the same for everything
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Also - it helps keep your heart healthy.
[17:49] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: olive oil?
[17:49] <Darkside> >_>
[17:49] <SamSilver> you can have two but not all three
[17:49] <NigeyS> olivio! lol
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> (Olivio spread)
[17:49] <Darkside> oh
[17:49] <Darkside> we don't have that in australia
[17:49] <NigeyS> :o
[17:49] <Darkside> >_>
[17:49] <Darkside> aaaaaaanyway
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> yeah. Just barbecue. :)
[17:50] <fsphil> tastes good on toast, even if there's so little you can't see it :)
[17:50] <SamSilver> you can have speed and low s/n
[17:50] <Darkside> FEC would be cool if you want a very reliable link
[17:50] <fsphil> could take olivia's fec and put it on rtty
[17:50] <Darkside> but in our case it doesn't matter so much
[17:50] <Darkside> you just wait for the next decode
[17:50] <SamSilver> what is it I am trying tom say
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> The existing format would work well.
[17:51] <Darkside> maybe it would be better to switch to a more reliable mode once it drops below a certain altitude
[17:51] <Darkside> where you are unlikely to hear it
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> If before the checksum you added say 20 bytes of FEC.
[17:51] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: it doesn't work that way
[17:51] <SamSilver> forward error corection
[17:51] <fsphil> it could if the block size was fixed
[17:51] <Darkside> the entire message is lengthened by FEC
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: It does - but not with fldigi
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: I know.
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> Fldigi would screw the above scheme as it relies on start/stop bits
[17:51] <Darkside> at its simplest, you replace each bit with something longet
[17:52] <fsphil> for variable length messages its better to use the other fec, name escapes me
[17:52] <Darkside> ooh good point
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: That is one form of FEC.
[17:52] <Darkside> reed solomon?
[17:52] <fsphil> reed solomon works well for fixed block sizes
[17:52] <Darkside> technically we could do that
[17:52] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: You can in addition have extra check data.
[17:52] <Darkside> but it would mean discarding the formats we have now
[17:52] <Darkside> i wouldn't be against that
[17:52] <Randomskk> we don't have to discard
[17:52] <Randomskk> it is possible to have alternatives
[17:52] <Darkside> yeah
[17:53] <Randomskk> like how right now we support crc16 and xor checksums
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> 20 bytes of error correction data at the end of the line would work.
[17:53] <Randomskk> you could just transmit the line twice. :3
[17:53] <fsphil> ah, convolutional coding!
[17:53] <Darkside> i mean, with my HF transmitter i could do any mode that only had a single tone being broadcast at once
[17:53] <Darkside> i.e. MFSK based modes, like olivia
[17:54] <SamSilver> how easy to do olivia with an adruino?
[17:54] <SamSilver> as TX
[17:54] <Darkside> thers code around the place
[17:54] <Darkside> but the problem is getting all the different tonesw out of a NTX2
[17:54] <fsphil> you'd need an adc
[17:54] <Darkside> you need a DAC, or a big resistor network designed to give the right voltages
[17:54] <SamSilver> aaahhhhh always a snag
[17:54] <fsphil> er, dac
[17:54] <Darkside> yes
[17:54] <fsphil> PWM + RC filter might work
[17:54] <Darkside> its why i like being in australia :P
[17:54] <Darkside> i just do it on HF :P
[17:55] <Darkside> fsphil: eew
[17:55] <Darkside> but maybe
[17:55] <Darkside> its probably clean enough
[17:55] <Darkside> i did olivia on my HF payload, using someon eleses code
[17:55] <Darkside> might have been Randomskk's
[17:55] <Randomskk> nah
[17:55] <Randomskk> I haven't done any olivia
[17:56] <Darkside> finding source
[17:56] <Darkside> hold
[17:56] <SamSilver> Darkside: I want to do olivia at 5 watts 40m
[17:56] <Darkside> oh waaaaait
[17:56] <Darkside> it was DominoEX
[17:56] <Darkside> not olivia
[17:56] <Darkside> similar idea though
[17:56] <Darkside> i think?
[17:56] <Randomskk> roughly
[17:56] <Randomskk> both are more mfsk
[17:57] <Darkside> mm
[17:57] <Darkside> daniel richman
[17:57] <Darkside> thats who wrote the code
[17:57] <SamSilver> I want to TX from South Africa and have the ukhas guys decode
[17:57] <fsphil> haha
[17:57] <Darkside> http://code.google.com/p/xmega-qrp/source/browse/trunk/XMega_Code/include/MOD_DOMINO.c
[17:57] <fsphil> Bill has got some amazing distances with his HF payloads
[17:58] <SamSilver> bigger yagi fsphil
[17:58] <fsphil> picked up across the US
[17:58] <Darkside> SamSilver: 5W, and choose the frequency JUST before launch
[17:58] <Darkside> means you need a very frequency agile transmitter
[17:58] <SamSilver> Darkside: I understand that
[17:58] <Darkside> i switched mine from 40m to 20m one day before launch :P
[17:58] <Darkside> i realise now i should have used 30m, but anyway
[17:58] <Darkside> take a look at the AD9835
[17:58] <Darkside> all you need is a filter and an amplifier
[17:59] <Darkside> filter is easy, amplifier is harder
[17:59] <Darkside> i made a ridiculously efficient Class-E amplifier (95% efficiency!), but it was tuned to 40m
[17:59] <SamSilver> 28 MHz TCXO > /2 D flip flop > /2 D flip flop .......
[18:00] <Darkside> OH GOD
[18:00] <Darkside> no
[18:00] <Darkside> please no
[18:00] <SamSilver> did you use the IRF510 ?
[18:00] <Darkside> dont do the dodgy CW transmitters
[18:00] <Darkside> SamSilver: nope
[18:00] <Randomskk> square waves make kittens cry
[18:00] <Darkside> 2N7000
[18:00] <Darkside> 2 of them in parallel, got 2W out of it :D
[18:00] <Darkside> IRF510 is too hard to drive into class E, way too much input capacitance
[18:01] <SamSilver> DominoEx Darkside
[18:01] <Darkside> i used a 2N7000, being driven by a hex buffer
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[18:01] <Darkside> SamSilver: dominoEX has error correction too, in the form of a varicode
[18:01] <Darkside> its easy ti implement, as its a straight mapping of byte to varicode
[18:03] <SamSilver> thanx for all the advice Darkside
[18:03] <NigeyS> !bud Darkside
[18:03] <HAMBotty> Darkside says pop a top again HAMBotty. I think I'll have another round.
[18:03] <SamSilver> will scratch the head and think about it in the shower > best thinking gets done there
[18:04] <Darkside> wut
[18:04] <Darkside> heh
[18:04] <SamSilver> afk > supper time
[18:04] <Darkside> i'd like to implement MFSK sometime, but i don't fully understand the FEC at the moment
[18:07] <Darkside> mmm, i need to get back into amplifier design
[18:08] <Darkside> i need a design with a switchable output filte rbank, so i can use it broadband
[18:08] <Darkside> i need to be able to pick a frequency to suit the conditions
[18:11] <eroomde> mmm
[18:11] <eroomde> and a unicorn, while we're at it?
[18:11] <Darkside> >_>
[18:11] <Darkside> hey, its possible
[18:11] <Darkside> a bitch to implement efficiently
[18:12] <Randomskk> eroomde: know anything about couchdb write performance?
[18:12] <Randomskk> it seems to read super quick, then take forever to write stuff.
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[18:22] <cuddykid> woo, finally managed to work out how to program these easyradios!
[18:22] <Darkside> easyradio?
[18:23] <Darkside> oh
[18:23] <cuddykid> yeah
[18:23] <cuddykid> http://www.lprs.co.uk/easyradio.html
[18:23] <cuddykid> doubt if I'll get long range with them, but just experimenting
[18:23] <Darkside> not if you use them as they run
[18:24] <Darkside> same with the radiometrix modules
[18:24] <cuddykid> they do have a raw mode but just going to use their mode for time being
[18:24] <Darkside> yeah
[18:24] <Darkside> which will be some kind of high speed mode
[18:25] <Darkside> maybe if you use it at a very slow data rate
[18:25] <cuddykid> yeah, sending commands to slow data rate down etc
[18:25] <cuddykid> but min is 2400 baud
[18:25] <cuddykid> guess I want fast ACK disabled
[18:26] <Darkside> mm, onthe radiometrix it is up to the user to set the tx rate
[18:26] <Darkside> what is the raw mode on the easyradio modules?
[18:27] <Darkside> a frequency agile transmitter which can still do FSK would be good
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[18:27] <cuddykid> not sure, haven't looked at it properly yet
[18:28] <cuddykid> http://www.lprs.co.uk/assets/files/erA3v3.pdf
[18:28] <Darkside> hmm
[18:29] <Darkside> raw RF input - toggling ths pin modulates the carrier
[18:29] <Darkside> ok, but by how much..
[18:30] <Darkside> i.e. does it shift a carrier, or do something else
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[18:43] <NigeyS> evening jcoxon
[18:43] <NigeyS> night off? :D
[18:45] <jcoxon> no no - shift starts at 9
[18:45] <NigeyS> dam :/
[18:45] <jcoxon> last one though
[18:46] <NigeyS> couple of days rest then i take it ?
[18:46] <jcoxon> tues off
[18:46] <jcoxon> then start new job on weds
[18:46] <NigeyS> ohhh nice
[18:46] <jcoxon> first week of august = doctor switch
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[18:47] <NigeyS> different department or .. ?
[18:47] <jcoxon> differnet hospital
[18:47] <jcoxon> moving to canterbury
[18:47] <NigeyS> blimey
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[19:17] <RocketBoy_> hey jcoxon
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[19:22] <jcoxon> hey RocketBoy_
[19:22] <jcoxon> hows things?
[19:23] <RocketBoy_> fine - just recovering from yesterday
[19:23] <jcoxon> good day?
[19:23] <jcoxon> i'm looking forward to the show
[19:23] <RocketBoy_> yes - twas a lot of fun - but a bit hectic
[19:23] <jcoxon> :-p
[19:24] <RocketBoy_> yeah
[19:24] <RocketBoy_> There was a problem with my dl-fldigi uploading yesterday
[19:25] <RocketBoy_> so I'm trying to find the logs - but I have a nasty feeling
[19:25] <RocketBoy_> any clue where they are stored on OSX
[19:25] <RocketBoy_> a ls -R doesn't seem to find them :-(
[19:26] <Randomskk> too late now but in future it's best to save the fldigi buffer to a file if you need it later
[19:26] <fsphil-laptop> if it's still in the text window in fldigi, you can right click and save it
[19:27] <LazyLeopard> Somewhere inside .dl-fldigi
[19:27] <RocketBoy_> yea - a couple of times it just froze - so no oppertunity to do that
[19:27] <Randomskk> ah fair enough
[19:27] <LazyLeopard> ...which MacOSX will convenienly hide unless you go terminal..
[19:29] <LazyLeopard> ..and use ls -aL
[19:37] <NigeyS> anyone know which library is for reading the ds1821's? standard 1wire or dallastemp doesnt want to work :|
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[19:50] <jcoxon> NigeyS, i use the 1wire lib
[19:50] <jcoxon> we still having this issue ;-p?
[19:50] <NigeyS> noo, fixed the 1820 probs
[19:50] <jcoxon> oh right
[19:50] <jcoxon> i don't use 1821
[19:50] <jcoxon> good point
[19:50] <NigeyS> got some 1821's here, and they seem to be a bit more complex
[19:51] <jcoxon> i would of thought the code would be very similar
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[19:51] <jcoxon> http://blog.jgc.org/2011/02/gaga-1-temperature-measurement.html
[19:51] <NigeyS> me to, pins are the same .. resistor etc, but library refuses to see it
[19:52] <NigeyS> yeah i read that, he lost me in his code
[19:52] <jcoxon> well he does it from scratch
[19:52] <jcoxon> time for work
[19:52] <jcoxon> cya
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[20:03] <rjharrison> greets to natrium42 like the pic
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[20:05] <rjharrison> ping Upu
[20:07] <Darkside> oh man thats awesome
[20:07] <number10> hi rob, hope the cameras worked ok
[20:13] <fsphil-laptop> good one :)
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[20:21] <NigeyS> hehe cool pic eh rob :p
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[20:53] <priyesh> trying to use griffonbot and i get DeprecationWarning: ReconnectingTrackStream is deprecated. Use FilterStream instead
[20:54] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: ^
[20:54] <Randomskk> priyesh: it should "still work"
[20:54] <Randomskk> just not for long ;D
[20:55] <priyesh> i run it and get http://pastie.org/private/sthkmcvcogrm4sq3bthorq
[20:56] <priyesh> am i doing anything wrong?
[20:56] <Randomskk> have you given it twitter credentials?
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[20:56] <Randomskk> I mean, I've not used it and didn't write it, but it looks like it's trying to log in to twitter and failing due to not having valid credentials
[20:57] <priyesh> Randomskk: no.. i thought it just monitors the hashtags
[20:57] <Randomskk> yea, but it needs an account to do that
[20:57] <Randomskk> just make one up for it or something
[20:57] <priyesh> ok
[20:57] <Randomskk> config.py
[20:57] <priyesh> thanks
[20:57] <Randomskk> https://twitter.com/#!/griffonbot is griffonbot here
[21:03] <priyesh> Randomskk: thanks! all workin
[21:04] <priyesh> g
[21:07] <Randomskk> np
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[21:27] <Upu> ping rjharrison
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[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:31] <RocketBoy_> cuddykid: have sent email
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[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy_
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[21:36] <RocketBoy_> yo ll
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:47] <fsphil> back to work tomorrow
[21:47] <fsphil> boo
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[21:51] <RocketBoy_> ha - every day is a holiday atm :P
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> same here!
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr93g0XPivA
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:59] <RocketBoy_> te he
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> I am quite excited
[22:02] <fsphil> actual near space: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tSJXv82kQs
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> that I have actual hardware for the balloon
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> and that launching shouldn't be that far away
[22:06] <fsphil> the EARS launch site from the air: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtM7tCvyzug
[22:06] <fsphil> can see why it's a popular spot
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[22:07] <RocketBoy_> also ears http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCAnLxRvNNc&feature=related
[22:07] <RocketBoy_> im the guy in the blue coat
[22:13] <Randomskk> hah, that's a cool music video
[22:14] <RocketBoy_> yeah - excellent video
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[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy_, how many launches did you do so far?
[22:16] <RocketBoy_> well 13 of my own - but loads of others for other people
[22:17] <RocketBoy_> my guess is I have launched or been at about 30
[22:17] <RocketBoy_> possibly more
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> does anyone know the launch record of WB8ELK?
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> when he does that since 1987, he must have 100+ I think
[22:18] <fsphil> "lots"
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:18] <RocketBoy_> not me - but way way more than that
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:18] <fsphil> all of them late
[22:18] <fsphil> but always neat
[22:19] <fsphil> I've done 2.5
[22:19] <RocketBoy_> most launches are late
[22:19] <fsphil> and yea they where all late too :)
[22:19] <RocketBoy_> we were 2 hours late yesterday
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> BASE has made 59 so far
[22:20] <RocketBoy_> too much stuff being done on site
[22:20] <fsphil> (re: music video .. neat tune but I agree with the commentator - I can't understand a word of it ;-)
[22:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:21] <RocketBoy_> ok - i'm off to bed - nights
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[22:21] <fsphil> I need to be doing the same
[22:21] <fsphil> silly mondays
[22:21] <Randomskk> they are the worst :(
[22:21] <fsphil> esp. after a week off
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[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> I found an awesome HDD
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> 500 GB and just 35 euros
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[22:36] Lunar_Lander2 (~knoppix@p54882C68.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander2> back
[22:37] <fsphil> to the future
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander2> xD!
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaISqa-6hBk
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[22:44] <Lunar_Lander2> did the video work fsphil ?
[22:47] <fsphil> oh yes
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander2> :)
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander2> the maneuver in the end of BTTF I will never work I think
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander2> that you hit the wire at the exact moment of the lightning strike
[22:49] <simhed> hey.. is there a way to use habhub predictor with data from the past?
[22:49] <fsphil> not at the moment
[22:51] <fsphil> anyways, night :)
[22:51] <simhed> all right.. just had a sudden thought that it could help me recover my lost payload
[22:51] <simhed> nn
[23:00] <Darkside> Bath abbey bells are 10 seconds out
[23:01] <Darkside> >_>
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> I assume you're not 3.4km or so from them?
[23:02] <Darkside> nope
[23:02] <Darkside> they are literally just across teh road
[23:02] <Darkside> like, <100m away
[23:03] <Darkside> anyway, nn
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[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Night.
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[00:00] --- Mon Aug 1 2011