highaltitude.log.20110728

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[00:11] <natrium42> didn't get very high
[00:11] <natrium42> or was it a cutoff?
[00:11] <hibby> get stronger 'erbs?
[00:12] <natrium42> lol
[00:12] Action: fsphil throws an H at hibby
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[00:12] <hibby> fsphil: that's not how they spell it here, from what I've 'erd
[00:12] <hibby> just like those heat exchangers I was inspecting today....
[00:13] <hibby> when I asked what they were made of, I was told "aluminum"
[00:13] <hibby> which I assume is a cousin of Aluminium.
[00:18] <fsphil> the whole 'erb thing annoys me more than it should :)
[00:18] <hibby> why?
[00:18] <fsphil> no idea
[00:18] <hibby> had a worrying revelation today
[00:19] <fsphil> it's HERB not 'erb
[00:19] <hibby> my trousers are slipping down as they're not closing over my stomach properly.
[00:19] Action: fsphil slaps the TV :)
[00:19] <hibby> slap snoop dee oh double gee as well. It's his fault.
[00:19] <fsphil> eek
[00:19] <SpeedEvil> hibby: I was really happy when I managed to rip some trousers by attempting to pull them down when the belt actually stuck on my hips.
[00:19] <hibby> lol
[00:22] <fsphil> the aluminium thing doesn't bother me as much
[00:22] <hibby> drives me mental
[00:22] <hibby> there's an i between the n and u, it's aluminIum
[00:22] <fsphil> mobeel instead of mobile
[00:23] <hibby> I'm not called Dav'd, you're not called Ph'l, it's not called alumin'um
[00:23] <fsphil> I'm only PHL on old arcade game high scores
[00:24] Action: fsphil is listening for meteor scatter pings on 2m
[00:24] <fsphil> think there's more chance of that than receiving an aprs packet
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[00:25] <hibby> lol
[00:26] <hibby> What was Amy Winehouse's biggest hit?
[00:26] <hibby> Her last.
[00:26] <hibby> d'ya hear that Rupert Murdoch was really touched by the nice voicemails on Amy Winehouse's phone?
[00:27] <fsphil> boom boom
[00:27] <fsphil> it's bad that that's actually likely to have happened
[00:28] <hibby> hahah
[00:29] <fsphil> I avoid voice mail.. think it's a silly idea
[00:30] <fsphil> I've a hard enough time understanding people when I can ask them to repeat something
[00:31] <fsphil> yikes, pepsi max makes me rant on irc
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[00:35] <fsphil> oooh, got a weak ping
[00:36] Action: hibby looks for innuendo
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[00:37] <fsphil> find any? :)
[00:38] <fsphil> WSJT may be one of the most complicated amateur radio programs I've seen
[00:38] <hibby> there was something there
[00:38] <fsphil> I've no idea what half the stuff actually does
[00:38] <hibby> surely not as bad as multimon
[00:39] <hibby> is it multimon?
[00:39] <hibby> ocht, what's yon one with 12 billion buttons
[00:39] <fsphil> multimon's a command line demodulator
[00:39] <fsphil> ooh the windows one?
[00:39] <hibby> for t'windies
[00:40] <fsphil> know the one
[00:40] <fsphil> multipsk or something
[00:40] <hibby> aye
[00:40] <fsphil> I don't want to google it for fear I might see a screenshot
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[00:42] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: wb
[00:42] <hibby> oooh
[00:43] <hibby> new laptop is intel vt compatable
[00:43] <fsphil> sweeet
[00:43] <hibby> fsphil: multipsk indeed
[00:43] <hibby> the work computer is ace
[00:45] <Dan-K2VOL> busy hibby, working on balloon troubleshooting
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[00:47] <hibby> hahah
[00:47] <hibby> keep all weapons away from the balloon
[00:48] <Dan-K2VOL> on ustream I htink
[00:48] <hibby> /channel/highball-1
[00:48] <hibby> nope, offline
[00:51] <Dan-K2VOL> online
[00:51] <Dan-K2VOL> now
[00:52] <hibby> nice
[00:56] <hibby> ooh, there's a moving pole
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[01:16] <W0OTM> Payload recovered
[01:16] <Dan-K2VOL> nice marshall
[01:16] <W0OTM> fun flight, CutDown worked perfectly
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[05:23] <Dan-K2VOL> hibby
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[06:31] <SamSilver> count them - http://www.youtube.com/zeekzilch#p/a/u/0/-H92iCuOsNg
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[07:35] <natrium42> ok, made an APRS to Tracker script
[07:36] <natrium42> seems to be working
[07:36] Action: natrium42 Zzz
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[09:04] <GW8RAK> Morning all. On the subject of UAV's, I came across this http://tam.plannet21.com/index.htm . Don't know if anyone has heard of it. Shame more details aren't available.
[09:04] <GW8RAK> And also http://rucool.marine.rutgers.edu/atlantic/index.html
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[10:12] Nick change: m1x10_happiest -> m1x10
[10:33] <cuddykid> ping WillDuckworth
[10:34] <WillDuckworth> hey cuddykid
[10:34] <cuddykid> hi Will - was wondering if launch is on for weekend?
[10:35] <cuddykid> got back yesterday and have begun work on my next payload!
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[10:46] <WillDuckworth> nothing planned at mo as have to work :(
[10:46] <WillDuckworth> pain in the proverbial
[10:47] <WillDuckworth> might jump on your notam too if that's ok?!?!? cheeky i know!
[10:49] <cuddykid> oh no :( not good! - yeah, no problem!! got from 1st to 5th Aug covered
[11:03] <NigelMoby> Morning
[11:03] <NigelMoby> Eek its afternoon :o
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[11:16] <cuddykid> got SD log working :D
[11:16] <WillDuckworth> good stuff
[11:16] <WillDuckworth> having gps issues at the moment
[11:22] <cuddykid> which gps you using?
[11:25] <WillDuckworth> it's one of these: http://store.diydrones.com/GS407_U_Blox5_GPS_4Hz_p/spk-gps-gs407.htm
[11:25] <WillDuckworth> was working fine, now just won't get a fix - even left it on over night in the middle of the garden
[11:26] <WillDuckworth> ordered a venus unit
[11:26] <WillDuckworth> see how that works
[11:27] <cuddykid> oh right - 4hz is a nice rate!
[11:27] <cuddykid> think mine is 1hz
[11:28] <cuddykid> I'm using lassen iq - fix has been patchy in the past, just have to put foil underneath it!!
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[11:35] <eroomde> greetings
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[11:35] <M0JSN> hi eroomde
[11:36] <eroomde> hi jon
[11:36] <eroomde> all well?
[11:36] <M0JSN> very well thanks
[11:36] <M0JSN> yourself?
[11:36] <eroomde> yep well
[11:36] <M0JSN> excellent
[11:36] <M0JSN> how's work?
[11:36] <eroomde> just eagling
[11:37] <M0JSN> :)
[11:37] <eroomde> pyro firing box currently
[11:37] <M0JSN> sounds exciting
[11:37] <eroomde> some interesting electronics to do pyro firing 'properly'
[11:38] <eroomde> more than just a FET anyway :)
[11:38] <M0JSN> hehe
[11:39] <M0JSN> how much harder than that is it?
[11:39] <eroomde> constant current supplies, static bleeding, various interlocks and redundancy between different stages
[11:39] <eroomde> complete electrical isolation from everything else
[11:40] <M0JSN> cool
[11:40] <eroomde> nothing mega but just lots of little things that need to be considered
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[11:40] <M0JSN> yeah
[11:40] <M0JSN> sounds interesting though :)
[11:40] <eroomde> fun factors like shorts during pyro fire to the chassis because the plasma in the initiator can short it to the case
[11:41] <M0JSN> :o
[11:41] <eroomde> which happens for long enough to brown-out stuff unless you plan against it, forex
[11:42] <M0JSN> oh i see, yes
[11:43] <M0JSN> enjoying it then?
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[11:52] <eroomde> yup
[11:53] <M0JSN> :)
[12:02] <eroomde> what are you up to M0JSN ?
[12:02] <M0JSN> wokring
[12:02] <M0JSN> well, lunch break at the moment
[12:04] <eroomde> where are you working?
[12:05] <M0JSN> ricardo in shoreham
[12:05] <M0JSN> same as last year
[12:05] <M0JSN> :)
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[12:49] <NigeyS> afternoon
[12:49] Action: NigeyS finally has He !
[12:52] <SamSilver> happy days
[12:52] <SamSilver> Nitris oxide would be happier
[12:52] <SamSilver> tros
[12:52] <SamSilver> LOL gas
[12:53] <NigeyS> lol
[12:54] <number10> were did you get it from in the end NigeyS
[12:55] <NigeyS> Air Products
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Hehehe
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[13:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> !house
[13:07] <HAMBotty> We have !ladies !gents !stool !lastcall !bar !round !time !drunk !singalong
[13:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> hibby are you around?
[13:09] <NigeyS> is that bot auto messaging when people join ? :|
[13:09] <Dan-K2VOL1> haha no
[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> well it did yesterday to me
[13:10] <NigeyS> good lol
[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> but not toda
[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> y
[13:10] <NigeyS> !gents
[13:10] <SamSilver> ! lift
[13:10] <HAMBotty> This is your lucky nite boys. Wet t-shirt contest tonight.
[13:10] <NigeyS> lalala
[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> ha
[13:12] <cuddykid> integrated the SD card log into my old flight script :) works well
[13:12] <NigeyS> nice 1 cuddykid
[13:13] <cuddykid> now got to find a micro sd card for the keychain cam
[13:14] <fsphil-laptop> same ere - flying one on the next go
[13:15] <fsphil-laptop> doubt it will film more than half the ascent though
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[13:42] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/5x5p7r its gweeeeeen
[13:44] <number10> four of those will lift 98g?
[13:45] <number10> you wont see it in the trees ;)
[13:45] <NigeyS> easily, that one is about 15% underinflated and is lifting 54gms
[13:45] <NigeyS> hehe neon lights i think!
[13:45] <number10> where are air supplies?
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[13:46] <NigeyS> http://www.airproducts.co.uk/
[13:46] <NigeyS> they have local agents aswell
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[13:46] <number10> ta - when and where will u launch?
[13:46] <NigeyS> either saturday or sunday (depending on predictions) launch is on the outskirts of Cardiff
[13:49] <NigeyS> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=bc19cdfd4c03154d15593c4f4227d5b6c350f4cc
[13:50] <NigeyS> not good :(
[13:50] <number10> launch it from the beacons
[13:51] <NigeyS> there is an option to launch from Bath
[13:51] <NigeyS> dont fancy a trek up the beacons! lol
[13:53] <Darkside> heyy
[13:53] <NigeyS> hey Darkside
[13:53] <Darkside> NigeyS: launch it from bath :-)
[13:53] <Darkside> plenty of space here
[13:53] <Darkside> just find a park and release it
[13:53] <NigeyS> im leaning towards that idea, depends on transport
[13:53] <NigeyS> btw ure balloons will be delayed
[13:54] <NigeyS> had an email off them today
[13:54] <Darkside> heh ok
[13:55] <number10> do u not need to specify launch site in the NOTAM NigeyS
[13:56] <NigeyS> no, the foil balloons are exempt as they are under 2mx2m
[13:56] <NigeyS> i.e they wont expand to the same degree latex does, they'll just burst real early
[13:56] <cuddykid> going to open up this keychain cam and see if it can be hardware hacked
[13:57] <NigeyS> lol cuddykid you rebel! :p
[13:57] <number10> ic thats good, I was hoping to do something like that
[13:58] <number10> did you send me a link yesterday to the payload?
[13:58] <NigeyS> think so, let me dig it out again for you
[13:58] <number10> thanks - i probably saved it at home
[13:59] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/4p1pe0
[14:00] <Darkside> i still say fly my payload :P
[14:00] <Darkside> i reckon it'll be lighter
[14:00] <Darkside> just need to find these fucking connectors
[14:01] <NigeyS> lol you still not found any ?
[14:01] <number10> what connectors you looking for?
[14:01] <Darkside> well theres none here
[14:01] <cuddykid> haha NigeyS
[14:01] <Darkside> number10: http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/DSC_4087.jpg
[14:01] <cuddykid> need a glasses screwdriver to unscrew
[14:01] <Darkside> to go on the white connectors
[14:02] <BrainDamage> fucking connector? is it a kind of connector that instead of just plugging in, you have to keep plug/unplug to have it working properly?
[14:03] <NigeyS> hehe what is that bmp085 component ?
[14:03] <Darkside> NigeyS: pressure sensor
[14:03] <NigeyS> ahh
[14:03] <Darkside> has a temp sensor in it too, but its shit
[14:04] <SamSilver> BrainDamage: lol
[14:04] <NigeyS> lol
[14:04] <Dan-K2VOL> that's the sensor we've got on white star too
[14:04] <NigeyS> brb
[14:04] <number10> I may have some here - I'll have a look
[14:05] <Dan-K2VOL> we can't use it though for altitude at 10,000m, it's out of it's calibrated range, until we fly it up there and calibrate it ourselves
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[14:20] <cuddykid> managed to get the cover off but the wrong side comes off :(
[14:23] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: pimg
[14:23] <hibby> you called?
[14:27] <cuddykid> ok.. so the button disappears inside rather than popping out - annoying!
[14:27] <Dan-K2VOL> hey hibby
[14:28] <Darkside> ok i got connectors
[14:28] <Darkside> still need to get a battery holder
[14:29] <cuddykid> got it out - hmm
[14:29] <cuddykid> 160mAh battery
[14:30] <Darkside> yeah
[14:30] <Darkside> i know the ones
[14:30] <cuddykid> looks like the button can be shorted - going to require some very precise soldering
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[14:32] <cuddykid> wooooo
[14:33] <cuddykid> found the pins - connected up power to push button and turned on the camera :D
[14:34] <number10> whats the camera cuddykid ?
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[14:34] <cuddykid> a cheap £4 keychain camera off ebay :)
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid, is that the one you need to hold the button down for a few seconds to switch to video mode?
[14:35] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL - yeah, and to start
[14:35] <cuddykid> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170660214568&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
[14:36] <cuddykid> took it all apart and powered on using my multimeter
[14:37] <cuddykid> should be able to send command from arduino to turn on etc
[14:39] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddy kid we tried that and tossed it. they're a pain in the ass to automate, and they sometimes don't respond in the time you expect them to, knocking your controller out of sync unless you read the LEDs
[14:39] <Dan-K2VOL> I'll give you a link to what we tried,
[14:39] <Dan-K2VOL> we had very little patience though
[14:39] <Dan-K2VOL> given time it might be fine
[14:39] <Dan-K2VOL> we were right before launch trying to integrate that
[14:40] <cuddykid> ahh right :(
[14:41] <cuddykid> i'm not sure whether I'm going to be able to solder onto such a small connector either
[14:41] <cuddykid> my soldering is hideously bad!
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> I'll find the link to the info we documented about it
[14:41] <Dan-K2VOL> we've yet to find a decent lightweight video cam that can be easily automated
[14:42] <Dan-K2VOL> I don't think I can afford the weight of a go-pro unless I throw something else overboard!
[14:43] <cuddykid> yeah, same situation here - will give it a go and see - if it works, great; if it doesn't, oh well!
[14:43] <Darkside> NigeyS: voltage testing done
[14:43] <Darkside> it should run off 4.5v ok
[14:43] <Darkside> it cuts out at 4.15v
[14:43] <NigeyS> oh thats great news!
[14:44] <Darkside> its drawin a fuckton of cirrent
[14:44] <Darkside> current*
[14:44] <Darkside> like, 160mA
[14:44] <cuddykid> the solar panels I got from solarbotics are awesome for such small things
[14:44] <NigeyS> :o wow
[14:44] <Darkside> its the GPS mostly...
[14:44] <Darkside> but it'll run off the AAAs for a good 6-7 hours
[14:44] <NigeyS> excellent, plenty of time
[14:44] <hibby> i could sell you some lovely solar panels
[14:45] <hibby> 1-3U cubesat sized...
[14:45] <Darkside> NigeyS: any confirmation on matt_work ?
[14:45] <Darkside> hibby: :P
[14:45] <NigeyS> he cant make it :(
[14:45] <cuddykid> getting over 7V in british sun/clouds! - still not certain how to measure the current with my multimeter - it never reads anything :S
[14:45] <hibby> 3k-8k gbp...
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL> hibby what voltage and at what watts per gram?
[14:46] <hibby> cuddykid: current is in line with the circuit
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddy kid, you need to probably change to the other hole with the red probe, and put it in series with the power source, not parallel.
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL> if sitll nothing, open the meter and replace the blown fuse
[14:46] <number10> put the meter in series with the load
[14:46] <cuddykid> ahh, thanks guys :) - I should've known that from a level physics lol
[14:47] <Darkside> WTF i cant open dl-fldigi on my mac
[14:47] <Dan-K2VOL> that's why I love places like this chat room and hackerspaces - they'll save you so much time by checking with friends when confused
[14:48] <cuddykid> yep!
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL> darkside try tossing the preferences file?
[14:48] <Darkside> oh im missing libraries
[14:48] <Darkside> its wanding libFLAC for some reason
[14:48] <Darkside> wait, it wants libogg..
[14:48] <Darkside> wtffffff
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL> huh that's interesting
[14:48] <Darkside> oh jeez, its 32-64 bit problems
[14:48] <Darkside> i bet this is a 32-bit compile
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> what OS version are you on Darkside
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[14:49] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: 10.6.8
[14:49] <Darkside> ooh my batt voltage detector is WAY out
[14:50] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL - 3U side panel: 14-21v temp dependant, 6-8w, cant remember the weight
[14:53] <cuddykid> love how my desk has gone from tidy to a complete mess with wires & HAB stuff everywhere in 24hrs!
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[14:57] <Zuph> Morning, #highaltitude
[14:58] <NigeyS> morning Zuph
[14:58] <cuddykid> morning Zuph
[14:58] <NigeyS> !pizza
[14:58] <HAMBotty> HAMBotty places a piping hot fully loaded pizza in front of NigeyS enjoy NigeyS
[14:58] <NigeyS> ty HAMBotty
[14:59] <cuddykid> lol
[14:59] <cuddykid> !funnelcake
[14:59] <cuddykid> :( lol
[14:59] <NigeyS> lol
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[15:02] <Darkside> shiiiiiiit
[15:02] <Darkside> this voltage sensor isnt working
[15:02] <Darkside> its all over the shop
[15:02] <NigeyS> uhoh
[15:03] <Darkside> its a 22k and a 6.6k voltage divider
[15:03] <Darkside> oh well
[15:03] <Darkside> it means i can't see batt voltage
[15:03] <Darkside> not the biggest loss, i cn deal with it
[15:03] <Darkside> i guess AVRs ADCs arent sensitive enough for this
[15:05] <NigeyS> :/ meh
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[15:11] <Darkside> back later
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[15:14] <Zuph> hibby: How's the first week going?
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[15:28] <hibby> Zuph: pretty cool
[15:29] <Zuph> Good!
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[15:31] <hibby> was analysing the manufacturing of heat exchangers for the combustion chamber on the new GE NX turbines
[15:31] <hibby> yesterday. things of beauty.
[15:31] <hibby> incredibly tight tolerances too.
[15:31] <Zuph> Very neat.
[15:31] <Zuph> I can only imagine.
[15:32] <hibby> like, weld lengths and amount of fins bent slightly
[15:32] <hibby> cant be creating points of inefficiency
[15:33] <Zuph> How much of the process isn't automated?
[15:34] <hibby> all of it is person controlled
[15:35] <hibby> so machines are used to bend the aluminium or cut the fins, but it's then removed by the operator with a crane, x rayed, ultrasounded and moved on
[15:35] <Zuph> ah ha
[15:36] <hibby> same with generators for say, the apache helicopter - stators and rotors are hand wound
[15:36] <Zuph> Wow
[15:36] <Zuph> That seems overly labor intense.
[15:36] <hibby> and the f-18 generator
[15:37] <hibby> its fascinating... 20-29k rpm, 60kVA, 6" diameter at the widest.
[15:37] <hibby> 8 poles
[15:38] <hibby> constant frequency, too.
[15:39] <Zuph> That's nuts.
[15:40] <hibby> but their all oil cooled or are designed to pull.air through for cooling or both
[15:40] <hibby> they're
[15:40] <hibby> hence the complicated/intricate manuf.
[15:40] <Zuph> Yeah
[15:41] <Zuph> What's the operational life of these things?
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[15:41] <hibby> i think.one.of the generators is getting a custom winder, but that costs millions to develop and design.
[15:41] <hibby> however reduces wind time to 20 minutes from 15 hours
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[15:43] <Zuph> haha
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[15:47] <Darkside> oh man
[15:47] <Darkside> new accomodations are awesome
[15:47] <Darkside> right in the heart of bath
[15:47] <Darkside> just across the road from the bath abbey
[15:49] <Randomskk> how long're you in the UK?
[15:49] <Darkside> until august 28th
[15:50] <Darkside> ok i've found the local maplins, gonna go there and try and find a battery holder and batteries for this launch
[15:50] <Darkside> back later
[15:50] <Randomskk> good luck :P seeya
[15:52] <cuddykid> photos of inside of keychain cam - http://flic.kr/s/aHsjvtsTpK
[15:52] <eroomde> Darkside: which launch?
[15:52] <eroomde> maplins is a bit sucky - it's one of those shops that used to be good and now wants to sell you sat navs
[15:53] <Zuph> Sounds like Rat Shack.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> aka tandy in the uk
[15:57] <Zuph> Are they still Tandy over on that side?
[15:57] <cuddykid> never heard of Tandy :S
[15:59] <eroomde> any numpy people here?
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[15:59] <russss> I use it, although not really for massively mathematical things
[15:59] <NigeyS> numpy?
[16:00] <LazyLeopard> Didn't Tandy go out of business years ago?
[16:00] <Randomskk> I've used it for image processing stuff a bit
[16:00] <NigeyS> LazyLeopard, yups
[16:00] <NigeyS> long long time ago
[16:02] <eroomde> Randomskk: multiplying arrays (not matrices)
[16:02] <eroomde> less cludgy solution to a*b*c*d than dot(a, dot(b, dot(c,d)))?
[16:03] <eroomde> i have written a function to neaten this but it is still a bodge
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[16:03] <Randomskk> yea, I had this issue recently, I couldn't find anything better. :|
[16:03] <eroomde> function: http://pastebin.com/WSijhW3q
[16:04] <eroomde> this works, right, but i shouldn't have to be doing this kind of thing to make numpy useable
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[16:10] <Randomskk> can you a.dot(b)? not that it's really much better
[16:11] <Randomskk> I had this issue, looked and couldn't find anything, and can't find anything now either.
[16:13] <Darkside> battery holder acquired!
[16:13] <Randomskk> winrar!
[16:14] <eroomde> Randomskk: i'm re-casting everything as a matrix
[16:15] <eroomde> numpy.mat(a)
[16:15] <eroomde> i worry you will still get left to right evaluation
[16:15] <Randomskk> have you read the numpy page on matricies vs arrays?
[16:15] <eroomde> which is meaningless and will cause dimensional consistancy errors
[16:15] <eroomde> so i will have to shoe-horn it with brackets into right to left
[16:15] <eroomde> i spot a patch coming along
[16:16] <Darkside> i also got hold of a O2 sim card
[16:17] <Darkside> NigeyS: i have 8 AAA lithiums
[16:17] <NigeyS> ahh perfecto!
[16:18] <Darkside> i counldnt find a 3xAAA holder, but i did find a 2xAAA and a 1xAAA
[16:20] <NigeyS> i had a hard time finding holders not so long back
[16:22] <eroomde> Randomskk: this is pissing me off
[16:22] <eroomde> doesn't seem to work either
[16:23] <eroomde> i hate it when matlab seems like the much better solution to a problem
[16:23] <DanielRichman> dot(a, dot(b, dot(c,d)))? == reduce(dot, reverse([a, b, c, d]))
[16:23] <eroomde> DanielRichman: http://pastebin.com/WSijhW3q
[16:23] <eroomde> that's identical and recursive. just depends which school of functional paradigms you are worshiping that day
[16:24] <DanielRichman> fair enough :P
[16:24] <Randomskk> there's actually a whole page on this
[16:24] <Randomskk> http://www.scipy.org/Cookbook/MultiDot
[16:24] <eroomde> but my point is that this should be do-able with standard numpy
[16:25] <eroomde> DanielRichman: have you rejected all other languages but haskell yet?
[16:25] <DanielRichman> working on it, eroomde
[16:25] <Randomskk> eroomde: that page has examples for dot and multiply, and making it right-associative as well
[16:26] <eroomde> if you can do it before you get to cambridge then you'll save everyone else having to suffer the annoying snobbo-wankery functional phase that compsci's subject everyone to
[16:26] <Randomskk> however the answer appears to be that there's no builtin method, it just doesn't do infix notation for that
[16:27] <eroomde> lol, that page is exactly what i implemented but decided was crap
[16:27] <eroomde> numpy looses a gold star
[16:27] <Randomskk> :(
[16:28] <Randomskk> admittedly I do like that it being python lets you solve this with recursion or functional programming
[16:28] <Randomskk> but yes, it's also kinda annoying that it can't just do this
[16:28] <eroomde> yes
[16:28] <Randomskk> how would you implement it in python though? need a new operator really and even then python's going to be left associative by default anyway?
[16:28] <eroomde> for a linear algebra toolbox, you want it to cope with this kind of thing
[16:29] <eroomde> even if me solving it with recursion would go down well in a 1st-year supervision
[16:29] <Randomskk> :P
[16:29] <Randomskk> have you seen that tim love has a blog where he blogs about teaching programming?
[16:29] <eroomde> Randomskk: i think just a multi-argument function
[16:29] <Randomskk> I'm one of only two people who subscribe to it on google reader
[16:29] <Randomskk> and he even mentioned me at one point
[16:30] <Randomskk> where he was whining about how one student took his rubbish legacy code and rewrote it with exceptions >_>
[16:30] <eroomde> multiply_all_these_mofos_together_properly_bitch(a,b,c,(d.transpose()),e)
[16:30] <NigeyS> lol
[16:30] <Randomskk> eroomde: well yea, but isn't that what you've already written/daniel suggested/is on that page?
[16:30] <Randomskk> you're basically just saying it should be included in numpy?
[16:30] <eroomde> yes. but it should be builtin!
[16:30] <eroomde> it shouldn't be an exercise for the reader
[16:30] <Randomskk> agreed, that is kinda silly.
[16:31] <eroomde> what kind of real world linear algebra problems involve multiplying only two matrices together?
[16:32] <Randomskk> mdot = lambda(*args): reduce(numpy.dot, args)
[16:32] <Randomskk> it's a oneliner at least :P
[16:32] <eroomde> almost all problems involve some kind of matrix decomposition
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[16:33] Nick change: cloudfirsh -> bfirsh
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[16:34] <eroomde> Randomskk: rweversed args in that one liner surely?
[16:34] <Randomskk> oh, sure, for right association
[16:34] <Randomskk> but yea, that's easily done
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[16:35] <Randomskk> I guess they've just decided that the numpy code isn't going to look like mathematical linear algebra :/
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[16:36] <Darkside> ok, i now hve 1gb of data on O2
[16:36] <Darkside> yay
[16:36] <Upu> type real slow
[16:36] <Upu> make the most of it
[16:36] <eroomde> Randomskk: i don't like this
[16:36] <eroomde> i want it to die
[16:38] <Randomskk> it is definitely not as pretty as octave :|
[16:38] <Randomskk> try ruby's narray, I bet it has literally tonnes of syntax sugar
[16:38] <eroomde> i don't want to try ruby
[16:38] <Randomskk> :P
[16:38] <eroomde> i have just written several hundred lines of matlab
[16:38] <eroomde> sorry numpy
[16:39] <eroomde> just trying to re-implement the bayesian changepoint detector i did for my thesis
[16:40] <eroomde> on the plus side Randomskk i've figured out a way mathematically to make it real-time and work with MFSK rather than just 2FSK
[16:40] <Randomskk> that sounds like two very neat things
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:40] <eroomde> previously the computational complexity rose exponentially with M
[16:40] <eroomde> now linearly
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Woo!
[16:41] <Randomskk> excellent
[16:41] <eroomde> or maybe log?
[16:41] <eroomde> hmm
[16:41] <eroomde> well whatever, it'll work
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Sexy 1/n performance gains!
[16:41] <eroomde> just remember the rule of 3rd year everything signal processing
[16:42] <eroomde> convolution in the time domain is multiplication in the frequency domain
[16:42] <eroomde> and fft's are damn efficient
[16:42] <Laurenceb> heh
[16:42] <eroomde> and convolution is n^2
[16:42] <Laurenceb> can you explain basically how your detector works?
[16:42] <Randomskk> did you need read the thesis? :P
[16:42] <Randomskk> not read*
[16:42] <eroomde> and i've found a way of turning this bayesian thing ionto a convolutional problem, therefore do-able with fft's and multiplication
[16:42] <Laurenceb> i mean normally youd multiply into integration bins
[16:43] <Laurenceb> so how does yours differ?
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[16:43] <eroomde> Laurenceb: bayesian model selection
[16:43] <eroomde> where you model is a jump from one freq to another
[16:43] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:44] <Laurenceb> so how do you 'measure' the frequency?
[16:44] <eroomde> write down your observation as a linear model, so Acos(blah) + iBsin(blah) + noise
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[16:44] <rjharrison> hey all
[16:44] <rjharrison> Hi Upu
[16:44] <Laurenceb> i see
[16:44] <eroomde> marginalise out A,B,noise (assume gaussian - i know a bodge)
[16:45] <Upu> evening rjharrison
[16:45] <rjharrison> doing a sever move tonight at work
[16:45] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/dump/bath_abbey_from_room.jpg <-- the view from my room
[16:45] <Upu> sounds like fun
[16:45] <Upu> you going to be about for a quick chat later on ?
[16:45] <rjharrison> hoping it will only take 15 mins if everything goes according to plan
[16:45] <eroomde> and calculate the marginal posterior probability of the data given the model. loop through a bunch of different models
[16:45] <rjharrison> though should proably expect an hour
[16:45] <eroomde> plot probability againts the model - you should get a gaussian
[16:45] <LazyLeopard> Darkside: Are the bells loud? ;)
[16:46] <eroomde> peak of the gaussian in the place in the received signal where your frequency jumps
[16:46] <Upu> never takes 15 mins :)
[16:46] <Laurenceb> i see
[16:46] <Laurenceb> so how does it differ from integration bins with a sliding window>
[16:46] <Darkside> LazyLeopard: not really
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[16:46] <rjharrison> Darkside, WTF are you ATM?
[16:46] <eroomde> so the nice thing Laurenceb, which makes it better performing than a matched filter, is that you actually accurately extract the timing
[16:46] <Darkside> rjharrison: Bath
[16:46] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:47] <rjharrison> Nice
[16:47] <eroomde> and matched filters (which I think you mean by windowed integration bins) loose the timing in noisy sinals
[16:47] <eroomde> signals
[16:47] <rjharrison> eroomde, looks like you're matimatically pontificating
[16:47] <eroomde> coding!
[16:47] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:48] <eroomde> it works, provably
[16:48] Action: Laurenceb isnt sure how a sliding window binning algorithm is inferior
[16:48] <eroomde> Laurenceb: matched filters are in theory optimal
[16:48] <Laurenceb> isee
[16:48] Action: rjharrison knows he's well out of his depth
[16:48] <eroomde> but practical implementations aren't
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[16:49] <Laurenceb> marginalise out A,B,noise <- what does that mean?
[16:49] <eroomde> cos they suffer from the discriminator on the integration bins drifting away from the symbol changes
[16:49] <Upu> back in a bit
[16:50] <Laurenceb> eroomde: not if you use a sliding window
[16:50] <eroomde> Laurenceb: so marginalization is a really useful technique in bayesian inference problems
[16:50] <eroomde> if you don't know about a parameter (eg the amplitues A and B) you just integrate over them
[16:50] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:51] <rjharrison> Upu, yes I'll be about
[16:52] <eroomde> so if you have p(x,y,z) and you want p(x), it's just p(x) = integral(p(x,y,z)dydz)
[16:52] <rjharrison> Plan to kick off server stuff here head home and finish off
[16:52] <eroomde> in just means nested loops
[16:52] <Laurenceb> ah yes thats obvious
[16:52] <Laurenceb> ive gtg, interesting stuff
[16:52] <eroomde> that's all it is
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[16:52] <eroomde> above 5 parameters you gotta start doing monte carlo
[16:53] Action: Laurenceb isnt sure this is actually different from sliding windows
[16:53] <eroomde> as it becuase too complex to solve analytically
[16:53] <Laurenceb> right
[16:53] <eroomde> Laurenceb: link me to some sliding window lit
[16:53] <Laurenceb> sorry ive got to catch a bus
[16:53] <Laurenceb> bbl
[16:53] <eroomde> ok
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[17:18] <ruku> Laurenceb, http://i.imgur.com/doSW2.jpg
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[18:19] <natrium42> jkominar: https://github.com/akarpenko/APRS2Tracker
[18:20] <jkominar> nice.. thanks!
[18:20] <natrium42> np, let me know if there are any problems with it
[18:20] <jkominar> I know I can code dive to figure this out myself, but since you're here now, how does it get its APRS data in the first place?
[18:21] <natrium42> it opens a socket to a node in the aprs-is network
[18:21] <natrium42> and sets a filter so that it only gets updates for certain callsigns
[18:22] <natrium42> then each aprs update is a line that can be parsed and forwarded to tracker
[18:22] <jkominar> ok ... seems like something that could easily become a native part of the spacenear.us site rather than having to run a separate utility to feed it data.
[18:22] <Dan-K2VOL> I like your conversation :-)
[18:22] <jkominar> Would be awesome to just go in there and tell it I'm launching a balloon shortly via APRS, here's the callsign - now watch for it. kthxbye!
[18:23] <NigeyS> oo aprs on spacenar natively.. nicey! *joins dan* hehe
[18:23] <natrium42> yeah, i was thinking about how to select callsigns to track
[18:23] <natrium42> maybe a search box like on aprs.fi
[18:24] <natrium42> that triggers monitoring of a callsign on the server
[18:24] <natrium42> though it would be nice to keep the launch team in control
[18:25] <natrium42> really need a proper admin backend...
[18:25] <natrium42> so my thinking is that this script is fine until new tracker is finished
[18:26] <Darkside> time for dinner... back later guys
[18:29] <natrium42> bon appetite
[18:29] <jkominar> so what does spacenear.us natively use to track projects if not APRS?
[18:29] <jkominar> Is there a more UK-favoured method of tracking that its built for?
[18:30] <natrium42> spacenear.us just accepts position updates with HTTP POST or GET
[18:30] <jkominar> oh ... I see
[18:30] <jkominar> That's smart... then you can interface it with anything easily enough.
[18:30] <natrium42> there is another system that is called distributed listener
[18:31] <natrium42> so people in UK run dl-fldigi, which decodes positions from radio and sends it to dl-server
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[18:31] <natrium42> dl-server in turn collects positions from multiple people and forwards them to spacenear.us
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[18:32] <jkominar> So if it updates the predictions real-time, it must store all the various weight/ascent speed/etc. values that the predictor uses?
[18:33] <natrium42> but you can also send positions to spacenear.us directly, like my aprs script does
[18:33] <natrium42> yeah, i just need to grab the weather data (a bunch of GFS files) in advance of the launch
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[18:33] <natrium42> and send the launch parameters
[18:34] <natrium42> that part's manual atm, but it's very quick & easy
[18:35] <natrium42> the parameters used for prediction are: ascent rate, descent rate, burst altitude
[18:35] <jkominar> so in the site, it would identify the balloon being tracked just by the APRS callsign you tell it? or is there a cross-reference somewhere (e.g. HAVEN-1 == VE3LVN-11)
[18:35] <natrium42> though it will calculate ascent rate on the fly once there are enough positions
[18:35] <natrium42> and same for descent rate once it starts descending
[18:36] <natrium42> oh, i guess you could change the script to map to HAVEN-1
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[18:36] <natrium42> right now it uses APRS callsign
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[19:07] <rjharrison> Hi all
[19:07] <rjharrison> Steve are you there
[19:08] <rjharrison> RocketBoy even
[19:09] <NigeyS> hey rob
[19:09] <rjharrison> Hi NigeyS you managed to get some He
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[19:09] <NigeyS> i did, have tested a ballon for lift, just making a quick hardware change then good to go on the weekend, although unlikely to be a cardiff launch
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[19:21] <m1x10> Lunar_Lander
[19:21] <m1x10> package sent
[19:21] <m1x10> :0
[19:21] <natrium42> wolfspraul: what's up with your connection?
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[19:21] <m1x10> 4euros
[19:21] <m1x10> with simple mail
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> please highlight me again
[19:22] <m1x10> it will arrive in a week they told me
[19:22] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander is the highlight of our channel
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> once more please
[19:22] <m1x10> wtf
[19:22] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander is so awesome
[19:22] <m1x10> hi natrium42
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah phew
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> my PC did a strange sound
[19:22] <natrium42> yo m1x10
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> and I thought it was something bad
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> thanks natrium42
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> and thanks m1x10
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[19:22] <natrium42> what are you feeding that thing, Lunar_Lander
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> it has a new Vista SP2 after a formatting
[19:23] <m1x10> please those who have facebook 'like' my project. I need people! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Slaros-Project-Near-Space-Unmanned-Amateur-Flight/259791880701530
[19:23] <Upu> hey rjharrison
[19:23] <Upu> back home yet ?
[19:24] <natrium42> m1x10: looks greek to me
[19:24] <fsphil> people still use facebook?
[19:24] <Upu> face what ?
[19:24] <natrium42> ¤¿ ¸­»É ÃÄ¿ ¼À¬½¹¿ ¼¿Å ÄÎÁ±!
[19:24] <m1x10> hahaha
[19:24] <natrium42> fsphil: are you on google+?
[19:25] <natrium42> plz2add
[19:25] <fsphil> nah not yet
[19:25] <natrium42> i have james and ed on g+
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil rjharrison Upu
[19:25] <natrium42> and dan
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> thanks
[19:25] <natrium42> :)
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> it's steamfire@gmail.com
[19:26] <m1x10> natrium42: he said i wanted in my bathroom now. and that guy is from russia. leaves in my neighboor. :)
[19:26] <m1x10> "i want it in my bathroom now"
[19:26] <natrium42> ah
[19:27] <m1x10> im going to eat pizza now with him
[19:27] <m1x10> :)
[19:27] <m1x10> anyway! Like me ! plz! bb
[19:27] <fsphil> I had a pizza earlier .. plain, but really nice
[19:27] <fsphil> but I ate too much of it.. regretting it now :)
[19:28] <natrium42> overdosed on pizza
[19:28] <fsphil> yep
[19:28] <fsphil> took an hour to arrive
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
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[19:40] <rjharrison> Upu, yep
[19:41] <Upu> evening
[19:41] <Upu> on the radio
[19:41] <Upu> ?
[19:41] <rjharrison> 144,650
[19:41] <Upu> 1 sec
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[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil natrium42 pizza is a good idea
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[19:54] <fsphil> always
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[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy
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[20:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQI3AWpTWhM&feature=feedrec_grec_index
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Not quite what I had in mind for my flapping wing ideas. :)
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Rather too pucker inducing
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[20:34] <NigeyS> blimey SpeedEvil that could've been nasty :|
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[21:03] <Laurenceb_> hmm theres no way to use malloc to make an array expand or contract in c is there?
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> as itd hit stuff above it
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> guess i need a better language
[21:05] <fsphil> realloc .. though it may move the allocation
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> hmm i need to do some reading
[21:05] <fsphil> and it'll only work on memory blocks that where malloc()'ed to begin with
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> i see
[21:06] <fsphil> so char blah[256]; can't be changed
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> hmm i need an array of pointers
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> to different packet destinations
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> - its for packets on my uav platform
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> i want to be able to 'register' new packet types at any point
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[21:08] <fsphil> could do a linked list, have an item point to the next one, or null if it's the last
[21:09] <Randomskk> linked list would be the usual choice.
[21:09] <Randomskk> or use C++ and the STL
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> whats a linked list?
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> oh i see
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> thats clever
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> i might be lame and stick it in a header
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> openpilot stick it in an autogenerated header, you use an xml to set it up
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> thats shared with the ground gui thingy
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[21:13] <Laurenceb_> linked lists are a little complex
[21:14] <Randomskk> they're not hard
[21:14] <Randomskk> but you're probably doing it wrong if you're implementing them yourself
[21:14] <Randomskk> there are good implementations readily available (such as the STL for C++)
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[21:17] <Laurenceb_> oh i see
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[21:17] <Laurenceb_> ill use a header, its a little hackish but its how openpilot does it so..
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[21:41] <natrium42> :D
[21:42] <hibby> ahahah
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[21:53] <NigeyS> !bud
[21:53] <HAMBotty> NigeyS says pop a top again HAMBotty. I think I'll have another round.
[21:54] <m1x10> no one likes my project!
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[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> I do m1x10
[22:07] <RocketBoy> nights
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 RocketBoy
[22:08] <m1x10> hi
[22:08] <m1x10> :P
[22:09] <natrium42> m1x10: there :P
[22:09] <m1x10> natrium42 greetings from kocta :)
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[22:17] <NigeyS> dropping like flies
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[22:29] <Darkside> lol
[22:29] <Darkside> ass Laurencs went
[22:29] <Darkside> aww*
[22:29] <Darkside> ffs
[22:30] <Darkside> aaaaanyway
[22:30] <Darkside> NigeyS: i plan on making a cross-dipole antenna tomorrow, for use on the ground
[22:31] <NigeyS> nice!!
[22:34] <Darkside> what connector does your board have on it for power?
[22:34] <NigeyS> i just used straight header pins
[22:35] <Darkside> 2 side-by-side?
[22:35] <Darkside> it means the battery i'm wiring up tomrrow will work with your payload
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[22:36] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/5xd1z9
[22:36] <NigeyS> 3 pins on the left
[22:37] <Darkside> ok
[22:37] <Darkside> wait, 3?
[22:38] <Darkside> ohh, you use the outer ones
[22:38] <Darkside> no wait
[22:38] <NigeyS> yeah, the vreg pins are G,O,I so i chucked a 3 pin on to save fiddling around
[22:39] <Darkside> ahh damn
[22:39] <NigeyS> its only cause im lazy lol i couldve used a 2 pin or a different vreg tbh
[22:40] <Darkside> heh
[22:40] <NigeyS> it works..
[22:40] <Darkside> have you tested your board down to -40 degrees?
[22:41] <Darkside> because the internal clocks on those AVRs drift a shitload
[22:41] <Darkside> and the UART may stop working
[22:41] <NigeyS> no, only down to -5 .. this balloon will burst way before it gets to -5
[22:41] <Darkside> at 5km its pretty cold
[22:41] <NigeyS> the main flight, ATS-1 has external 16mhz xtal
[22:42] <Darkside> anything more on launch location?
[22:42] <NigeyS> fingers crossed, wouldnt be able to add a xtal that easily now, and im out of stripboard heh
[22:43] <NigeyS> well, if the predictions tomorrow are as bad as today it wont be from cardiff, it heads to far inland, and to close to the heliport, can either go further outside cardiff, or if ant is free we'll drive over to you
[22:44] <NigeyS> failing that, get a train here, and we'll go launch it from the lake in cosmeston
[22:45] <Darkside> heh ok
[22:45] <Darkside> i won't be able to train there early on sunday
[22:45] <Darkside> the trains are shit on sunday
[22:45] <NigeyS> well its better weather wise on saturday so that'd be my prefered day
[22:46] <Darkside> isnt theres a nother launch on that dya?
[22:47] <Darkside> i guess it won't matter
[22:47] <NigeyS> robbie has 2 payloads going up early am .. think he said 9am ?
[22:47] <NigeyS> you going to do yours this weekend or ... ?
[22:48] <Darkside> dunno
[22:48] <Darkside> i wonder if theres some scales i can use at uni..
[22:48] <Darkside> there must be something
[22:48] <NigeyS> would hope so hehe
[22:49] <Darkside> so i can measure the weight of the total payload
[22:49] <NigeyS> 10KG ! :p
[22:49] <Darkside> heh
[22:49] <Darkside> i'm hoping <100g
[22:49] <Darkside> well, it should be..
[22:49] <Darkside> i'm expecting around 60-70
[22:49] <NigeyS> well i weighed 3xaa's earlier in a holder and they were over 100g .. no clue on the aaa weight though
[22:50] <Darkside> AAA's are around 8g each
[22:50] <NigeyS> at least not lithium, i only have standard aaa's
[22:50] <NigeyS> ahh cool
[22:50] <Darkside> lithiums are light
[22:51] <NigeyS> lipos are light, just slightly unstable, highly explosive, and crap in the cold...lol
[22:51] <Darkside> yeah...
[22:51] <Darkside> i wouldn't trust a lipo, even to 5km
[22:52] <NigeyS> ill probably do the same as you and get some aa's and a holder tomorrow
[22:52] <NigeyS> aaa's*
[22:52] <Darkside> mm
[22:52] <Darkside> the maplins here had them
[22:52] <NigeyS> good, i got within a few miles of eachother here, so should get them easy enough
[22:53] <Darkside> anyway, sleep time for me
[22:53] <Darkside> nn
[22:53] <NigeyS> oki dude nn, msg you tomoz when i've heard from Ant
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 29 2011