highaltitude.log.20110721

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[02:05] <nickolai89> hey upu are you on?
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[05:41] <Upu> morning nickolai89
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[07:57] <daveake> Upu: Good luck for Sunday. Go pink!
[07:57] <Upu> cheers :)
[07:57] <Upu> did the mail go out ?
[07:58] Action: Upu pokes griffonbot
[07:58] <daveake> Well I got it :)
[07:58] <Upu> jolly good thanks :)
[07:59] <daveake> Was thinking of driving up to the ridgeway for a clear view "oop north"
[07:59] <daveake> Or (lazy mode) just try the Yagi indoors
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[08:41] <GW8RAK> Morning Upu, what is the prediction like? which way will it go?
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[08:48] <Upu> morning GW8RAK
[08:48] <Upu> not great at the moment
[08:49] <Upu> 1 sec I'll get link
[08:49] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=36eb8cf6e3d543fb5a32ae682c1c48b3f4d1da20
[08:51] <Darkside> hmm
[08:51] <Darkside> i might borrow the discone for the weekend :P
[08:51] <Darkside> i might be able to hear something from around here, when it gets high
[08:52] <Upu> Leeds Center isn't the best place for a landing
[08:56] <fsphil> should do Darkside
[08:58] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... Hope the prediction improves...
[08:58] <Upu> yeah
[08:58] <Upu> me too
[08:59] <fsphil> think happy thoughts :)
[08:59] <Upu> lol
[08:59] <Upu> happy thoughs do not, if I'm not mistaken, affect wind patterns
[08:59] <fsphil> well if a butterfly can cause tornadoes .. :)
[09:00] <daveake> Mine landed 8 miles from the prediction. Some of that may however have been due to the descent rate ...
[09:00] <fsphil> or hurricanes even - chaos theory ftw
[09:00] <daveake> So he should put a butterfly in his payload? :)
[09:02] <fsphil> maybe, although a european swallow might work better
[09:04] <M0JSN> I don't know what the average flying velocity of a european swallow is
[09:04] <M0JSN> nor an african swallow for that matter :P
[09:07] <M0JSN> </obscure monty python reference>
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[09:14] <NigeyS> whos watching the landing then? :D
[09:14] <fsphil> listening to it
[09:15] <NigeyS> yey
[09:15] <gb73d> i am
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[09:16] <NigeyS> hi gb73d
[09:16] <NigeyS> morning jon :)
[09:16] <M0JSN> morning NigeyS
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[09:18] <gb73d> hiya
[09:20] <gb73d> im recording it on sky News
[09:21] <NigeyS> ahh nice 1 :D
[09:21] <NigeyS> you watching Jon ?
[09:21] <M0JSN> I'm at work :(
[09:21] <NigeyS> ah dam :(
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[09:25] <daveake> Watching while "working" :)
[09:25] <NigeyS> good man dave :p
[09:25] <daveake> No chance of my boss complaining, 'cos that's me too :)
[09:25] <NigeyS> lol
[09:26] <daveake> I was lucky enough to see Atlantis launch in November 2009.
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[09:29] <gb73d> sri I had to reboot
[09:29] <gb73d> no audio on the soundcard , does that sometimes
[09:30] Action: fsphil wishes the uk had a space program -- be cool to see a launch here
[09:30] <daveake> We are the UK space program LOL
[09:30] <NigeyS> lol
[09:30] <fsphil> haha
[09:30] <russss> we don't really have the latitude for it
[09:30] <NigeyS> wb gb73d
[09:31] <fsphil> I'm happy with polar orbit :)
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[09:32] <NigeyS> im gonna put a latex balloon in orbit! lol
[09:32] <NigeyS> folded up in a cubesat or something.. hah!
[09:33] <Darkside> i'll stuff one into the payload we're sending up next year :P
[09:33] <fsphil> what'll you fill it with? :)
[09:33] <NigeyS> lol Darkside
[09:33] <NigeyS> err.. O2 .. ?
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[09:40] <NigeyS> meh they can see the plasma trails from the iss, no fair :/
[09:48] <gb73d> Im rec CNN Int
[09:49] <Upu> [10:30] <daveake> We are the UK space program LOL <- this
[09:50] <daveake> I ut a couple of momentos in cloud1 ... one was an Atlantis STS-129 official coin. The other was a tinu Buzz LIghtyear :)
[09:53] <Laurenceb> thermal camera?
[09:53] <LazyLeopard> Glowing nicely in IR...
[09:57] <daveake> Very pretty landing
[09:58] <Laurenceb> liked the onboard view
[09:58] <LazyLeopard> couldn't see much of it. ;)
[09:58] <Upu> is it down safely ?
[09:58] <LazyLeopard> Yep
[09:59] <LazyLeopard> Ah. IR camera shows a much better view
[09:59] <Upu> cool
[09:59] <daveake> Wonder what it's venting at the top (visible in the thermal imaging view)
[09:59] <Laurenceb> ammonia
[09:59] <daveake> Not a bacon and eggs fry up inside then?
[10:00] <NigeyS> lol
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[10:00] <LazyLeopard> The on-board view was cool. The IR view was clearest.
[10:00] <daveake> I ordered an Egg Mc Muffin and a McChicken earlier, just to see which one would come first.
[10:00] <daveake> (sorry!)
[10:01] <Laurenceb> you can see the lights in the cockpit
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[10:03] <gb73d> all ended asafely that the main thing bbl
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[10:09] <Laurenceb> its getting light
[10:10] <Laurenceb> people on the gnd
[10:10] <NigeyS> that'll be the sniff checkers
[10:16] <fsphil> has it landed?
[10:17] <LazyLeopard> Yep
[10:17] <Laurenceb> will it blend?
[10:17] <fsphil> probably
[10:18] <fsphil> so that's it -- no more space shuttle
[10:18] <LazyLeopard> in the dark...
[10:18] <NigeyS> :-(
[10:18] <fsphil> those wings are still pretty toasty
[10:19] <NigeyS> yip, bet that nosecaps still pretty warm to
[10:19] <fsphil> weird seeing the door opened on the side
[10:21] <Laurenceb> they have a levitating bus
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[10:22] <NigeyS> yip hehe
[10:22] <Laurenceb> why cant they go to space in that
[10:22] <NigeyS> i want 1
[10:22] <NigeyS> morning Robbie
[10:22] <rjharrison> yay! samples have arrived ds18B20's x 2 ds18b20z
[10:22] <NigeyS> nicey
[10:24] <daveake> What's the z variant? New to me
[10:25] <Upu> they are very good with the samples
[10:25] <Upu> I have piles of them now
[10:27] <Upu> I got my Digimaster box Rob so might try some SSTV or something later on
[10:35] <NigeyS> mmm pancakes!
[10:37] <fsphil> woo gsm antenna arrived
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[11:15] <rjharrison> Upu, cool
[11:16] <rjharrison> Sure the XYL os out tonight so should have some time to play
[11:16] <rjharrison> I have been given the green card for launch this w/e
[11:17] <rjharrison> It's saturday isn't it?
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[12:03] <Upu> Sunday rjharrison
[12:04] <Upu> hopefully just naff predictions atm
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[12:21] <fsphil> what's the weather forecast like?
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[12:30] <Upu> warm and windy
[12:33] <fsphil> at least it's dry
[12:35] <Upu> aye changeable
[12:35] <Upu> will keep an eye on it
[12:49] <fsphil> nice replay of the atlantis launch on nasa tv there, lots of different camera angles
[12:49] <fsphil> has a fantastic shot looking over the wing from the srb
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[13:17] <rjharrison> Upu, just perusing your site. Looks really nice
[13:18] <Upu> the blog ?
[13:18] <Upu> needs updating
[13:22] <rjharrison> Yep the site is nice an neat and good content
[13:25] <Upu> lots of pictures :)
[13:25] <rjharrison> Yep very good
[13:25] <Upu> cheers
[13:26] <Upu> its a bit random, the useful stuff I've put on ukhas
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[13:26] <fsphil> drop shadows rule :)
[13:40] <Upu> sssh or I'll get the lense flare filter out
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[13:48] <fsphil> haha
[13:48] <fsphil> no the world had quite enough lens flare in the last trek movie.
[13:49] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[13:50] <daveake> :)
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[14:30] <Upu> rjharrison just spoke with our haulers who we do UPS through can you find out what hazard class and UN number those igniters are ?
[14:34] <mattltm> Anyone know of a UK source for rfid readers with serial?
[14:36] <Upu> not UK but http://s.dealextreme.com/search/RFID have all manner of cheap tat
[14:36] <Upu> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/rf-anti-radiation-signal-blocker-bag-for-cell-phones-pink-48264 :)
[14:39] <mattltm> nice bag :)
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[15:42] <fsphil> epic: http://twitpic.com/5tj3oo
[15:44] <fsphil> not even sure how that picture was possible, I'm sure the re-entry wasn't that quick
[15:45] <mattltm> Nice
[15:45] <rjharrison> Just discussing how plauasble the pic was
[15:45] <rjharrison> It looks like trees in the corner of the pic I'm sure they're not
[15:45] <LazyLeopard> Depends, I guess, on how long the plasma trail glows for...
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[15:46] <rjharrison> There is some blure suggesting some exposure time
[15:47] <fsphil> trail might make sense .. even a faint trail would come up bright in that exposure
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[15:48] <rjharrison> would like to see it here http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/index.html
[15:49] <rjharrison> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stardust/multimedia/stardust-reentry-20060127.html is interesting
[15:50] <fsphil> yea that's a good video
[15:51] <fsphil> fastest re-entry so far isn't it?
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[15:53] <fsphil> "a velocity of 12.9 km/s, the fastest re-entry speed into Earth's atmosphere ever achieved by a man-made object"
[15:53] <fsphil> ooch
[15:54] <Upu> * with the exception of Xaben 2 weeks ago
[15:54] <rjharrison> lol
[15:54] <fsphil> haha
[15:55] <nickolai89> hey upu got your mail, thanks
[15:55] <Upu> hey nickolai89 no problems, I uploaded the stuff to the ukhas wiki as well under the GPS chip
[15:55] <nickolai89> o cool
[15:56] <nickolai89> say, do you know what to do with the antenna pin (other than supply vcc of course)? I mean what's the deal with the inductors and whatnot?
[15:56] <Upu> they are just filters
[15:56] <Upu> for testing you don't need them on the RX/TX
[15:57] <Upu> I put them on the real flight computer but they are optional
[15:57] <nickolai89> rx/tx? i thought we were talking about the antenna?
[15:58] <Upu> oh
[15:58] <Upu> yuo got the data sheets there ?
[15:58] <nickolai89> yea
[15:58] <Upu> 1 sec let me get them up
[15:59] <Upu> ok page 8
[15:59] <nickolai89> yea
[15:59] <Upu> the 33nH inductor + the capacitor is just a filter
[16:00] <Upu> to reduce interferance
[16:00] <nickolai89> o ok
[16:00] <Upu> You could run without it but at your own risk probably
[16:00] <nickolai89> but it can work fine without that?
[16:00] <Upu> I never tested it
[16:00] <Upu> without
[16:01] <Upu> Just put it in :) The inductor is a surface mount jobbie but you can solder it between strip board
[16:01] <Upu> lemmie see if I have a picture
[16:01] <rjharrison> the inductor / cap where are these
[16:02] <rjharrison> I'm sure i don't have them on icarus
[16:02] <rjharrison> you got a schematic Upu
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[16:03] <Upu> yeah
[16:03] <nickolai89> my main concern is that the inductors are so small, how the hel do you solder them?
[16:04] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/ISM300F2_Functional_Spec%20%282%29.pdf
[16:04] <jcoxon> afternooon all
[16:04] <Upu> Page 8 Rob
[16:04] <rjharrison> smd soldering is actually not bad if you have a fine point to your soldering iron
[16:04] <Upu> I'll take a picture when I get home
[16:04] <Upu> but its fairly easy with a very small piece of strip board
[16:04] <Upu> and a steady hand :)
[16:05] <rjharrison> aah I thought you meant on the ntx2
[16:05] <rjharrison> not the GPS
[16:05] <Upu> no on the GPS
[16:05] <Upu> I'm just going to jump in the car and drive home
[16:05] <rjharrison> Not familier with that one
[16:05] <Upu> be back in 20 mins
[16:05] <rjharrison> mee too
[16:05] <rjharrison> ttfn
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[16:05] <nickolai89> k, appreciate the help
[16:06] <nickolai89> btw, super high altitude shot here: http://twitpic.com/5su12j/full
[16:06] <fsphil> we can beat it :)
[16:11] <fsphil> (though you might need to lend us a few million)
[16:11] <nickolai89> hey here's an idea
[16:12] <nickolai89> lets make a model of ISS+shuttle, send it up on a balloon and pretend the pics were taken from a window on iss :D
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> ISS+MIR
[16:12] <nickolai89> docked??
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:12] <nickolai89> lol
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> Proof of new propulsion technologies
[16:13] <nickolai89> that's kind of what iss is actually, the module, zarya, was for the mir-2 proect
[16:14] <SpeedEvil> I know.
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[16:17] <Nickolai_> sry, weird computer
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[16:28] Nick change: Nickolai_ -> nickolai
[16:32] <Upu> nickolai back
[16:32] <nickolai> hey
[16:32] <Upu> give me a few to take a pic
[16:32] <nickolai> sure, thanks
[16:36] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth#Concave_hollow_Earths
[16:36] <Laurenceb> lulwut
[16:37] <SamSilver> What??? flat and hollow??
[16:37] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/inductor.jpg nickolai
[16:38] <Upu> note the inductor on the strip board
[16:38] <nickolai> to the right?
[16:38] <Upu> yes
[16:38] <Upu> zoom in
[16:38] <Upu> its very small
[16:38] <Upu> trick is put the solder down on the strips first
[16:38] <nickolai> hm
[16:39] <Upu> then hold inductor in place with pair of tweezers
[16:39] <Upu> then just touch each end
[16:39] <nickolai> don't you need 4 inductors tho?
[16:39] <nickolai> per the scematic?
[16:39] <Upu> no
[16:39] <nickolai> o
[16:40] <Upu> 1 sec let me get it up
[16:40] <Upu> you only use TXA and TXB for NMEA data
[16:40] <Upu> err
[16:40] <Upu> sorry TXB / RXB
[16:41] <nickolai> right, but those don't need any inductors...
[16:41] <Upu> TXA and RXA output Sirf binary
[16:41] <Upu> and the inductors on those are optional
[16:41] <Upu> seee page 8 on the data sheet
[16:42] <Upu> cut and paste not working
[16:42] <Upu> TXA and TXB can be tied directly to your
[16:42] <Upu> microcontroller without the RC circuit. Eliminating the RC circuit, however, may affect performance in worst
[16:42] <Upu> case reception areas by increasing EMI.
[16:42] <nickolai> yea i'm looking at it and i'm not sure what you're talking about. there are no inductors on the schematics for any tx/rx pins, just a resistor and a capacitor
[16:43] <Upu> thats why you don't need inductors
[16:43] <Upu> because there are none!
[16:43] <nickolai> well good!
[16:43] <Upu> sorry wasn't paying attention
[16:43] <Upu> so yeah just the one inductor
[16:43] <nickolai> haha that's ok, happens all the time
[16:44] <Upu> ok just shutting the PC down for 5 to fit some more USB slots
[16:44] <Upu> bs
[16:44] <Upu> bbs
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[16:45] <nickolai> ok, ok sothat's the symbol for a singular inductor. it looked like it would be 4 but i looked up the inductor symbol: http://www.clker.com/clipart-inductor-symbol-1.html
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[17:52] <rjharrison> pin Upu
[17:52] <rjharrison> g
[17:52] <Upu> pong
[17:53] <rjharrison> You up for a bit of sstv?
[17:53] <Upu> shortly
[17:53] <rjharrison> There is a good program here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g6unc-/vhf.htm
[17:53] <Upu> works fine with HRD
[17:53] <Upu> but doesn't talk to dl-fldig any more
[17:53] <Upu> is it still HAMlib ?
[17:53] <rjharrison> 144.500 is the SSTV calling freq
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[17:54] <rjharrison> Upu http://hamsoft.ca/pages/mmsstv.php
[17:54] <rjharrison> Wrong link ^^
[17:54] <Upu> got that
[17:54] <rjharrison> evening jcoxon
[17:54] <rjharrison> Is the pred any better for sunday atm
[17:55] <Upu> not checked yet
[17:55] <Upu> too many wires lol
[17:55] <Upu> listening on 144.500 ?
[17:57] <Upu> thats a really annoying sound :)
[17:57] <rjharrison> you getting this?
[17:57] <rjharrison> Should prob pm
[17:58] <Upu> yes
[17:58] <jcoxon> hey rjharrison
[17:58] <rjharrison> evening sir
[17:59] <rjharrison> Playing data modes with upu
[17:59] <jcoxon> ooo fun
[17:59] <jcoxon> i'm playing with lipo charging ICs
[18:00] <rjharrison> cool
[18:03] <rjharrison> opps
[18:03] <Upu> lol
[18:03] <rjharrison> We'll jump to 144.650
[18:03] <Upu> 1 sec phone
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[18:04] <rjharrison> 2 secs 4 me to
[18:05] <Upu> dunno if you heard that on the radio going QRT for a little while wife just called so going to put food on back in a while
[18:06] <rjharrison> cool
[18:13] <Upu> just cooking but I think that was the radio amateur equivalent of a bollocking :)
[18:13] <Upu> rjharrison join #hamaltitude
[18:14] <Upu> bbs
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[18:53] <Darkside> sup all
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[19:03] <NigeyS> hey Darkside
[19:05] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-177-60-239.range86-177.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:05] <Darkside> NigeyS: still on for a launch next weekend?
[19:06] <NigeyS> all is looking good yup
[19:06] <Darkside> are you planning on collecting the payload when it lands?
[19:07] <NigeyS> if it's not to far yup, im not going to go chasing it half way across the country though
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[19:08] Action: fsphil pictures NigeyS in a train with a radio and yagi
[19:08] <NigeyS> lmao
[19:08] <Darkside> haha
[19:09] <Darkside> any predictions?
[19:09] <Darkside> what do foil baloons do anyway?
[19:09] <NigeyS> well, they burst early ..
[19:09] <NigeyS> 7km is the highest so far
[19:09] <nickolai> wow that's nothing
[19:10] <NigeyS> actually ..
[19:10] <NigeyS> ping jcoxon
[19:11] <jcoxon> hey NigeyS
[19:11] <NigeyS> hey james
[19:12] <NigeyS> is it possible to use habhub to get a reliable ish prediction for fullly inflated foils ?
[19:12] <jcoxon> no
[19:12] <jcoxon> well not really
[19:12] <jcoxon> well maybe
[19:13] <NigeyS> oo, im just running one now with guestimates..
[19:13] <jcoxon> if you get ascent rate and descent roughly right then
[19:13] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:13] <NigeyS> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=04f9333da2af6372f93ef11e1e22095a4ec67419
[19:13] <NigeyS> thats a 3.5 ascent 1.5 descent ..
[19:13] <jcoxon> my suggestion is use it roughly
[19:13] <NigeyS> 2.0* descent
[19:13] <jcoxon> so you get a general idea of direction
[19:13] <jcoxon> makes sure its safe
[19:13] <jcoxon> then go for it
[19:14] <jcoxon> its going to be very low if they are fully filled
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[19:14] <NigeyS> thats the aim of the lfight, to get an idea of what we can expect from them
[19:14] <NigeyS> flight*
[19:15] <jcoxon> fair enough
[19:15] <jcoxon> would be worth getting some local listeners
[19:15] <NigeyS> steve said a burst alt will give another indication of the kind of pressure the balloons can take
[19:16] <Darkside> jcoxon: well i'll probably be there
[19:16] <Darkside> i might be able to setup a remote RX around here
[19:16] <NigeyS> schweet
[19:16] <Darkside> hmm,mmmm
[19:16] <Darkside> actialy
[19:16] <Darkside> not sure
[19:16] <NigeyS> lol, its definately heading ure way DS :P
[19:17] <Darkside> oh really?
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[19:17] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: are you doing a PhD at Bath?
[19:17] <NigeyS> seems to be, even if taken roughly the payload looks to go over that way
[19:17] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: i'm doing some work here for a month and a bit
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> ah
[19:18] <Darkside> working on a sat payload
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> cool
[19:18] <Darkside> i got called in to do the PCB design and some of teh software
[19:18] <Darkside> this is my third day of real work, and i've already finished the PCB :P
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> i hope they paid the air fair
[19:18] <Darkside> they did
[19:18] <Darkside> and accomodation
[19:19] <NigeyS> :o
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> nice, as its crazy money to fly from oz
[19:19] <Darkside> $2k
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> mone than you'd earn for the work
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> *more
[19:19] <NigeyS> 2k .. blimey
[19:19] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: probably
[19:20] <Darkside> heh
[19:21] <Darkside> i'll upload a pic of the PCB...
[19:21] <Darkside> hold on
[19:21] <Darkside> ahh crap, i haven't got a recent picture of it... booting up windows...
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[19:28] <natrium42> rjharrison: did you get the tracker working?
[19:30] <Upu> back if you're about rjharrison
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[19:33] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=757ff706b14da4481688940fc01bdaab31f317d9
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[19:37] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[19:37] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/topcat/
[19:39] <LazyLeopard> Still heading for Leeds, then...
[19:39] <Upu> yep
[19:47] <jcoxon> Upu, still quite early
[19:47] <Upu> yes I know
[19:48] <Upu> its quite changable at the moment so still optimistic
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[19:50] <Darkside> hey fsphil-laptop
[19:50] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/topcat/
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> the game
[19:52] <fsphil-laptop> g'day :)
[19:52] Action: fsphil-laptop is now across the room
[19:52] <fsphil-laptop> my solar powered payload just erupted into life
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:54] <fsphil-laptop> slight problem is that the ntx2 frequency is dependant on the voltage of the solar panel
[19:54] <fsphil-laptop> it's all over the play
[19:54] <fsphil-laptop> place
[19:56] <Darkside> can't use some kind of switchmode regulator?
[19:56] <fsphil-laptop> possibly .. just a plain vreg atm
[19:56] <Darkside> also WTF is up with the 2012 olympics logo
[19:56] <fsphil-laptop> and there goes a cloud turning it off
[19:56] <Darkside> its lisa simpson
[19:56] <Darkside> doing something not suitable for public television
[19:58] <fsphil-laptop> euu
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[20:19] <ruku> Darkside, nice PCB
[20:19] <Darkside> its almost done
[20:19] <ruku> P_RF is ridiculous, haha
[20:19] <ruku> I was like... is that some watermark orr... ...O__O!
[20:19] <Darkside> heh
[20:20] <ruku> what software are you using, altium?
[20:20] <Darkside> yep
[20:20] <ruku> What's U1? AVR I suppose?
[20:20] <Darkside> yep
[20:20] <Darkside> ATMega2560
[20:21] <Darkside> that board is going in a cubesat
[20:21] <ruku> nice!
[20:21] <ruku> can I ask what some of the chips you're using on there ar?
[20:21] <Darkside> which ones?
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[20:22] <Darkside> U4 = differential line driver
[20:22] <ruku> mostly I'm looking for the analog and power ones
[20:22] <Darkside> U7 = SPI EEPROM
[20:22] <Darkside> theres two switchmode regulators on there
[20:22] <Darkside> one to provide 3.3v, and one to provide 5.6v (for a LNA)
[20:23] <ruku> where'd you put the DC/DCs?
[20:23] <Darkside> top left
[20:23] <ruku> ahh got it
[20:23] <Darkside> theres 2 regulators there
[20:23] <ruku> did you build one with discrete components, or buy a pre-packaged one?
[20:23] <ruku> I see two inductors there
[20:23] <rjharrison> boo
[20:23] <Darkside> well, they are based around an IC
[20:24] <ruku> thats what I meant, as opposed to buying a DIL-6 package or something
[20:24] <ruku> looks really nice
[20:24] <Darkside> its getting close to being finished
[20:24] <ruku> ...the P_UART wouldn't happen to be a breakout for a usb-bub or something would it? :P
[20:24] <ruku> FTDI chip?
[20:24] <Darkside> yeah, its a breakout for the standard sparkfun ftdi board
[20:25] <Darkside> for testing at least, that board is running the arduino bootloader
[20:25] <ruku> abm7's your crystal?
[20:25] <Darkside> we're prototyping and developing some code in arduino, then moving it all across to bare-metal C later on
[20:25] <Darkside> yes, 16MHz
[20:26] <ruku> are you doing any analog work on there? or is it mostly digital?
[20:26] Action: ruku is veeery curious about power filtering / signal conditioning
[20:27] <Darkside> what do you mean by analog work?
[20:27] <ruku> we have eight analog sensors that need to get readr
[20:27] <ruku> right now we're using the adc on the AVR with an analog mux
[20:27] <Darkside> that board is basically there to get data from a GPS board, buffer it, and then send it to the platform ( the cubesat)
[20:27] <ruku> o__o!! Goodness gracious
[20:27] <rjharrison> looking after kid for a bit Upu
[20:27] <Darkside> ruku: it doesn't do that much tbh
[20:28] <Upu> no problems sorry I had to run earlier
[20:28] <Upu> didn't realise the time
[20:28] <Darkside> lots of coding to talk to the platform though, and the GPS is very very very high spec
[20:28] <ruku> aaaahh
[20:28] <ruku> high spec enough that I shouldn't be asking questions? ;)
[20:28] <Darkside> nah
[20:28] <Darkside> its space-rated
[20:28] <Darkside> no limiters
[20:28] <ruku> oooo!
[20:29] <Darkside> and will get lock at 600km altitude, while moving at ~10KM/s
[20:29] <ruku> Ye gods.
[20:29] <ruku> Is the accuracy any better than civvy GPS or is it just the altitude / speed thing?
[20:29] <Darkside> if it isn't moving, it has much better accuracy
[20:30] <Darkside> its a dual-frequency receiver, it can use L2
[20:34] <ruku> Hmm
[20:34] <ruku> Its very pretty looking
[20:34] Action: ruku needs to stop using Eagle.
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[20:34] <Laurenceb_> from sstl?
[20:36] <Darkside> novatel
[20:36] <Darkside> Novatel OEMV-1DF
[20:36] <ruku> are you using only space qual'd parts?
[20:37] <ruku> or are you using standard cots stuff here and there? >>;
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[20:38] <Darkside> ruku: standard COTS
[20:38] Action: ruku is currently in his own cubesat project <__<;
[20:38] <Darkside> except for the GPS
[20:39] <ruku> really? I mean... we did too, but I was afraid it was just us. XD
[20:39] <Darkside> we're in LEO, so it isn't really that big of a problem
[20:39] <Darkside> ruku: what project?
[20:39] <ruku> http://www.facebook.com/people/Qube-Scout/100001733233391
[20:39] <ruku> we don't really have a site up yet
[20:39] <Darkside> ahh ok
[20:39] <Darkside> not UKube?
[20:39] <ruku> naw
[20:40] <Darkside> ok
[20:40] <Darkside> this payload is going in UKube-1
[20:40] <ruku> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/74570_111973112203796_100001733233391_90243_4755097_n.jpg
[20:40] <ruku> There she is
[20:40] <ruku> though, I'm looking into resolving some of the outstanding issues with the hardware
[20:40] <ruku> namely analog signal handling :P
[20:41] <Darkside> fun
[20:41] <Darkside> but yeah, not sure sorry
[20:41] <Darkside> all of our stuff is digital
[20:41] <ruku> hehe
[20:41] <ruku> well did you make any particular part choices for space sturdiness?
[20:41] <ruku> or was it just like... 0.1 uF, x7r's.
[20:43] <Darkside> eh?
[20:43] <Darkside> nah, not really
[20:43] <Darkside> tbh most components would be fine
[20:44] <Darkside> we had to be careful to select components without glue
[20:44] <ruku> whyfor?
[20:44] <Darkside> outgassing concerns
[20:44] <ruku> vacuum?
[20:44] <ruku> ahhh
[20:44] <ruku> What'd you worry about? resistors mostly? Or caps too?
[20:45] <Darkside> well, none of those reall
[20:45] <Darkside> but teh inductors for the regulators were a concern
[20:45] <ruku> Yeah, thats what I should have figured
[20:45] <ruku> More mechanical than electrical
[20:45] <Darkside> yeah
[20:45] <ruku> What about Single Event Upset stuff? I've seen some neat stuff as far as it pertains to software error detection methods
[20:45] <ruku> but I fail at assembly <__<;
[20:46] <Darkside> we're aware of it... but we're at a loss as to how we can implement it well
[20:46] <Darkside> short of majority rules voting, etc
[20:47] <Darkside> theres always the chance of something going wrong, i.e. a bit flipping in a bootloader, etc
[20:47] <Darkside> so many ways you can kill the system
[20:47] <ruku> Have you heard of EDDI?
[20:48] <Darkside> nope
[20:48] <ruku> basically like
[20:48] <ruku> x = 2 + b;
[20:48] <ruku> y = 2 + b
[20:48] <ruku> if(x != y) reset
[20:48] <ruku> continue
[20:48] <Darkside> heh
[20:48] <ruku> http://www2.laas.fr/IFIPWG/Workshops&Meetings/44/W2/03-Shirvani.pdf
[20:48] <ruku> Except at an assembly level
[20:48] <Darkside> interesting
[20:48] <ruku> http://liberty.princeton.edu/Publications/cgo3_swift.pdf
[20:48] <ruku> There's apparently a way to get it somewhat like a compiler option
[20:49] <ruku> You don't change anything about your program behavior
[20:49] <ruku> It just duplicates and checks every instruction
[20:49] <Darkside> tbh with the feature size on the chip we're using, SEU's shouldn't be a huge problem
[20:49] <ruku> is supposed to be pretty effective...
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[20:49] <Darkside> ruku: we can't do that with the GPS though...
[20:49] <ruku> haha
[20:50] <ruku> single point of failure for the win!
[20:50] <Darkside> funny thing is, the GPS unit has more processing pwoer than the AVR does
[20:50] <Darkside> but yeah, the AVR is using a 200 micron process (?) i think
[20:50] <ruku> how does that effect SEU stuff?
[20:50] <Darkside> big feature size, so should be less susceptable to radiation
[20:51] <Darkside> ideally, anyway
[20:51] <ruku> when you mean feature size
[20:51] <ruku> do you mean like... the size of the ram (256 kB)
[20:51] <Darkside> no
[20:51] <ruku> or the manufacturing process?
[20:52] <Darkside> size of the transistors
[20:52] <ruku> ahh
[20:52] <ruku> know anything about the xmegas?
[20:52] <Darkside> i've used them before
[20:53] <Darkside> just like an AVR really, with more features
[20:53] <ruku> more or less succeptable?
[20:53] <Darkside> nfi
[20:53] <Darkside> we're doing radiation testing of this board in a few weeks
[20:53] <Darkside> no idea how they do that
[20:53] <Darkside> but we're doing it
[20:53] <ruku> lol... hold it up next to a smoke detector?
[20:54] <Darkside> dunno lol
[20:54] <Darkside> EDDI seems interesting
[20:54] <Darkside> i wonder if GCC can do that
[20:55] <ruku> Let me know if you find out O___O!
[20:55] <Darkside> heh
[20:55] <ruku> I'm trying to figure now, but I haven't found anything
[20:56] <ruku> there is this though... http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc1143.pdf
[20:56] <ruku> self checksum
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[20:58] <Darkside> ooh
[20:58] <Darkside> intersting
[20:58] <Darkside> but what if the checksum is hit with a SEU
[20:58] <Darkside> then you're fucked
[21:00] <ruku> well
[21:00] <ruku> what I'd do
[21:00] <ruku> is just have a value that you send with your house keeping packet
[21:00] <ruku> that says... checksum matches or checksum fails
[21:00] <Darkside> yeah
[21:00] <NigeyS> boo
[21:00] <Darkside> so you know if something has gone wrong
[21:01] <Darkside> we might look at putting it as a bit in a status byte of the downlink packet
[21:01] <ruku> Also. http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=44217&start=0
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[21:05] <Darkside> mm
[21:05] <Darkside> well, at the moment i'm focussed on hardware
[21:05] <Darkside> EDDI would be cool to implement
[21:05] <ruku> They describe the algorithm there (at a compiler level)
[21:06] <Darkside> but yes, memory checking and checking of program memory are a must
[21:06] <ruku> But as far as I know nobody's got swift / eddi set up at a complier level
[21:06] <Darkside> the external eeprom doesn't matter so much, since we're just flushing that down to the sat, and we can pick up errors on the ground
[21:07] <Darkside> the comment about catching all possible interupts is a good one
[21:07] <Darkside> didn't think of that
[21:07] <ruku> ?
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[21:09] <Darkside> in case an interrupt gets flagged by a SEU
[21:10] <ruku> <_< disable interrupts every time you hit your loop
[21:10] <ruku> HOORAY FOR SOFTWARE UART!
[21:11] <Darkside> >_>
[21:12] <Darkside> we'', we're sure as hell not disabling interrupts
[21:12] <Darkside> we need those...
[21:12] <Darkside> lots of serial data to read from the GPS, and we could get messages from the sat platform at any time
[21:12] <Darkside> and we need to respond to those within 2ms or something
[21:13] <Darkside> hmm, flash memory isn't as susceptible to SEUs, is it?
[21:13] <rjharrison> has Upu run a pred tonight
[21:14] <Darkside> issues with RAM can be detected with a watchdog timer, and the platform will also detect if the payload has failed, and power cycle it
[21:15] <Darkside> The Total Ionising Dose (TID) expected during the mission lifetime is not expected to exceed 15 krad.
[21:15] <Darkside> Should higher radiation tolerances be required by the Payload, spot shielding may be implemented within the Payload budget.
[21:15] <Darkside> we have a small aluminium shield, which should lower the dose a little
[21:15] <NigeyS> rjharrison, not sure
[21:15] <rjharrison> thanks NigeyS
[21:16] <ruku> man
[21:16] <ruku> you know what pisses me off?
[21:17] <ruku> people who make their systems stream data and expect the other guy to just handle
[21:17] <ruku> ever heard of the other pins on a DB9?
[21:17] <ruku> DTR? CTS? Hello?
[21:17] <fsphil> The hello pin?
[21:17] <Darkside> lol ruku
[21:18] <Darkside> we're expecting large chunks of binary data, we're we're going to have to buffer, write to the EEPROM, and then send to the platform when it asks
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[21:20] <ruku> lol fsphil
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[21:27] <ruku> but seriously though, it'd be nice if you can get some warning
[21:27] <ruku> as opposed to... "Oh hay, didjoo get all that? :3 Actually. I don't care. ^___^ BLAH BLAH BLAH"
[21:27] <jcoxon> is it okay to link a GPS ground plane to the radio ground plane?
[21:28] <jcoxon> or at least have a radio ground radial close to the gps antenna?
[21:28] <Upu> rjharrison yes I did its still Leeds way
[21:29] <Upu> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=757ff706b14da4481688940fc01bdaab31f317d9
[21:32] <Randomskk> jcoxon: not a massive deal
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[21:33] <jcoxon> cool cool
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[21:36] <SpeedEvil> Anyone happen to have played in depth with x-plane?
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> I'm wondering if it can do flapping aircraft
[21:38] <NigeyS> not sure speedy
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> I suppose actually for my degenerate case, it's quite simple
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> I can pretty much take aerofoil graphs, and simply calculate it with awk or something.
[21:40] <ruku> jcoxon, Why do you want to? (Not that I'm an expert or anything...)
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[21:40] <jcoxon> ruku, very small balloon payload - everything is close together
[21:41] <ruku> jcoxon, My gut reaction is no... ground loops maybe?
[21:41] <ruku> There's always the screw-analysis-and-experiment mode
[21:41] <ruku> Connect and drive around while transmitting beacons... compare with driving around without the connection
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> Ibe fyb ussye at ve vartyubg sebsivur wuith attitgh
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> One fun issue may be varying sensitivity with attitude
[21:42] <Randomskk> ruku: still only one system ground point
[21:42] <Randomskk> so shouldn't be much potential for ground loops
[21:42] <Randomskk> (potential, geddit)
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> So it's probably worth checking the GPGSV output for a few hours
[21:42] <Randomskk> on the other hand ground loops always confused me so meh
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[21:43] <ruku> It just seems that "because its a small package" isn't a good reason to connect them
[21:43] <ruku> I don't see how connecting the grounds would take up more room
[21:43] <jcoxon> oh it was more a practical organisation thing
[21:44] <ruku> Are you making your own GPS or something? I thought those things just came with RX, TX, and GND.
[21:44] <jcoxon> most probably the gps antenna will be out on a small boom
[21:44] <jcoxon> grrrr 36.5g in total
[21:44] <jcoxon> just missing insulatin
[21:44] <Upu> about as much as my batteries...
[21:44] <ruku> how would it save you space?
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> http://microblogbuzz.com/redirect/112209684 (on-topic 3/4 the way down) (images of the blitz in colour)
[21:46] <jcoxon> i was hoping to use the radial to support the gps antenna
[21:49] <ruku> I'm not much of a radio guy, you should check with a few other people
[21:49] <ruku> but if it were me (being naive) I'd want to put the antennas as far apart as possible
[21:51] <jcoxon> certainly would be the logical approach
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[21:51] <NigeyS> jcoxon, can you remember the average ascent rate for picoatlas 2 ?
[21:51] <Randomskk> jcoxon: you shouldn't have any issues putting the gps antenna on top of the radial
[21:52] <jcoxon> NigeyS, not off the top of my head
[21:52] <jcoxon> for these to work you want hte mimimum amount of lift
[21:52] <NigeyS> oki no probs ill check the wiki
[21:52] <jcoxon> (that is to get it to float)
[21:52] <NigeyS> well this flight is a "what alt will it burst at fully inflated" test
[21:56] <jcoxon> fair enough
[21:56] <jcoxon> i suspect that it'll be quite quick then
[21:58] <NigeyS> without doubt, although im kinda hoping it gets past 5km at least
[22:00] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[22:00] <jcoxon> we'll have to see...
[22:00] <rjharrison> hey jcoxon you're up late tonight
[22:01] <rjharrison> Do we have a list of up comming launches? NigeyS you launching soon?
[22:01] <Upu> have another shot at the data stuff if you're about tommorrow rjharrison, sorry about this evening
[22:01] <NigeyS> jcoxon, unrealists expectations you think ?
[22:01] <rjharrison> Upu is this w/e subject to wx
[22:01] <rjharrison> Upu sure
[22:01] <Upu> wx ?
[22:01] <rjharrison> kid been sick tonight
[22:01] <NigeyS> rjharrison, theres a slight chance i will be launching this sunday
[22:01] <rjharrison> Must be all the hard work last nigh
[22:01] <rjharrison> t
[22:01] <Upu> lol
[22:01] <NigeyS> slave driver! hehe
[22:01] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:current_launch
[22:01] <rjharrison> lol
[22:01] <rjharrison> NigeyS whats your freq.
[22:01] <jcoxon> rjharrison, just about to go to bed
[22:02] <Upu> I don't have a NOTAM yet
[22:02] <fsphil> eek
[22:02] <NigeyS> 434.650
[22:02] <rjharrison> Upu might be worth chasing DM tomorow
[22:02] <Upu> David Miller is being a last minute charlie
[22:02] <rjharrison> yep
[22:02] <Upu> I cased him yesterday
[22:02] <rjharrison> Badger
[22:02] <rjharrison> nicely
[22:02] <Upu> Thank you for your e-mail. I will issue the permission and NOTAM as soon as possible. This is a very busy time of year, which means that some applications do not get processed until shortly before the event. Please be assured that I will e-mail you as soon as it is done. Sorry for the delay.
[22:02] <rjharrison> esp as he said it should be isiied
[22:02] <rjharrison> issued
[22:03] <rjharrison> been testing pyros earlier on
[22:03] <NigeyS> bribe him ! lol
[22:03] <rjharrison> all went well
[22:03] <fsphil> i've a feeling my september launch will infact be in october :)
[22:03] <Upu> "exploded" = well :)
[22:03] <rjharrison> yep
[22:03] <Upu> heh
[22:03] <jcoxon> night all
[22:03] <rjharrison> and all fingers still intact
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[22:03] <Upu> anyway I need to hit the sack
[22:04] <Upu> catch you all tommorrow
[22:04] <Darkside> same...
[22:04] <NigeyS> nn upu .. again... lol
[22:04] <NigeyS> nn Darkside
[22:04] <Darkside> need to go over this PCB again tomorrow
[22:04] <Upu> yeah preemptive before :)
[22:04] <rjharrison> blew 7 shades of the brown stuff out of a plastic milk carton though
[22:04] <Darkside> and then get it manufactured
[22:04] <Upu> anyway really AFK/QRT now :)
[22:04] <NigeyS> lol rob
[22:04] <rjharrison> nights all
[22:05] <NigeyS> nn rob
[22:05] <rjharrison> Upu 144.650 tomorros
[22:05] <rjharrison> Upu 144.650 tomorrow
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[22:10] <ruku> Darkside, let me know if you find / hear anything on EDDI or SWIFT and avr-gcc
[22:13] <Darkside> ok, nn
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 22 2011