highaltitude.log.20110718

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[07:06] <Darkside> hey uk peoples
[07:07] <Darkside> I am in the uk!
[07:07] <Darkside> on a train to bath atm
[07:07] <Darkside> mental note: book train tickets well in advance
[07:07] <daveake> Wave as you go past Newbury :)
[07:08] <Darkside> will iI go past newbury?
[07:08] <Darkside> where the hell is newbusry lol
[07:09] <Darkside> aha
[07:10] <Darkside> I see now, will do :p
[07:10] <Darkside> fuuuuuuuck 3
[07:11] <SamSilver> Darkside: is it rush hour?
[07:11] <SamSilver> you going against the flow?
[07:12] <Darkside> im on a train
[07:12] <Darkside> said train is pretty full tho
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[07:36] <fsphil> welcome Darkside :)
[07:37] <fsphil> how was the flight?
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[07:45] <SamSilver> later
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[09:07] <SamSilver> bbl
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[09:08] <fsphil> glad I didn't plan a launch this month, the predictions have been pretty consistently bad :)
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[09:36] <Upu> morning
[09:37] <Upu> hey WillDuckworth http://ukhas.org.uk/general:chase_car_trackers
[09:37] <Upu> trying to get the source for the iPhone one
[09:37] <Upu> we have submitted it to app store
[09:38] <WillDuckworth> excellent, thanks. spammed your gmail (well, think it's the right mail address?!?)
[09:39] <Upu> my gmail ?
[09:39] <Upu> oh I see
[09:39] <Upu> I'll see if I can get that for you.
[09:40] <WillDuckworth> cheers
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[10:56] <Darkside> hey all
[10:57] <Darkside> i'm at the uni of bath!
[10:58] <fsphil> \o/
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[10:59] <Darkside> hey fsphil
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[11:05] <priyesh> on an NTX2, would you permanently keep the EN pin high or use the microcontroller to take it high only during transmission?
[11:06] <Darkside> keep it high
[11:06] <Darkside> we've found that fldigi demodulates RTTY better if theres a constant carrier
[11:06] <fsphil> unless you're after power savings for a long flight, that's pretty much the only time you'd need to toggle EN
[11:06] <Darkside> if you don't have it, it can loose the first few bytes as it synchronises
[11:06] <priyesh> Darkside: ahh. thanks for the advice
[11:06] <Darkside> sode*
[11:07] <jgrahamc> On GAGA-1 I had EN tied on permanently because then it's easy to find the carrier. Also, it doesn't draw much current and there's a 'startup time' whenever EN is enabled.
[11:07] <priyesh> fsphil: yeah.. won't be an especially long flight
[11:07] <Darkside> jgrahamc: yeah, i've noticed it takes a few ms to become stable
[11:08] <fsphil> I wired the EN pin to the microcontroller but I've yet to use it
[11:09] <fsphil> the gps uses a lot more current so any savings would be tiny
[11:09] <jgrahamc> Datasheet says that it can take 5ms before the transmitter is at full power after EN goes high.
[11:10] <fsphil> it's a big flaw with the 869mhz modules.. they have to be turned off
[11:11] <fsphil> and they never seem to be at the same frequency when they come back on
[11:12] <daveake> I leave it tied on too. As they said, it doesn't use much power (I had a single PP3 for NTX2 and Arduino. No problem with capacity), you don't have to wait that 5ms for the Tx to power up, and dl-fldigi has something to listen to all the time.
[11:13] <fsphil> still worth throwing out a few extra characters before the string starts, just to give fldigi something to chew on
[11:13] <jgrahamc> daveake: what 9V battery did you use? I've been looking at the Energizer ones to see if they perform well at low temperatures.
[11:14] <simhed> jgrahamc: try using 6 x energizer lithium ultimate
[11:14] <daveake> fsphil - you think so? If you're transmitting packets continuously then a receiver is going to hit somewhere during a packet, and so long as it syncs before the start of the following packet it'll pick that one up OK.
[11:15] <jgrahamc> simhed: I did use 6x Energizer Ultimate Lithium for GAGA-1. Interested in seeing the performance of the newer 9V battery from Energizer.
[11:15] <simhed> jgrahamc: my ntx2 was transmitting for 3 days after returning to the ground
[11:15] <daveake> jgrahamc - Ultralife Lithium
[11:16] <simhed> jgrahamc: i've heard from someone that 6xAAs perform better overall than a single 9v
[11:16] <daveake> Yes, but they weigh more and the PP3 had plenty of capacity (I think it worked out at 7 hours or so).
[11:16] <daveake> The GPS had its own batteries
[11:17] <fsphil> daveake, there's been occasions where the first $ was missed and the string was ignored. although I haven't seen that happen in a while now
[11:17] <jgrahamc> Yes, that's why I used the AAs (they can provide a lot more current than the 9V). None of the 9V providers seem to show a discharge chart at low temperature although they claim operation down to -20C
[11:18] <daveake> fsphil - presumably after a period of no characters? I can imagine that happening. An extra couple of characters as a "throwaway" prefix wouldn't do any harm.
[11:19] <fsphil> exactly
[11:19] <daveake> I was going to put a dead period between packets, but dl-fldigi seemed to sync to data within a few bytes anyway, so I didn't bother.
[11:20] <fsphil> I've got the rtty running from an interrupt, and when it runs out of data it sends a null character until more arrives
[11:20] <daveake> On a related note, what about putting a bit of dead space between characters, to help it pick up the start bit?
[11:20] <daveake> Mine were end-to-end bytes
[11:21] <fsphil> that's the stop bit
[11:21] <daveake> Yes, a long on :)
[11:21] <daveake> one
[11:21] <fsphil> I use 2 stop bits, fldigi doesn't work well with just 1
[11:21] <fsphil> well - at the higher baud rates anyway
[11:21] <daveake> Interesting
[11:22] <daveake> I was at 50 baud and it was fine with 1, but I did wonder about trying with 2
[11:22] <daveake> Mine was from interrupt too, and at the end of the string the handler set a flag for the main loop to build a new string for it.
[11:22] <daveake> Is range affected much at, say, 300 baud vs 50?
[11:22] <priyesh> so the difference between logic high and logic low on the TXD pin of the NTX2 specifies the shift?
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[11:23] <fsphil> ah I thought so -- your strings where much too quick
[11:23] <daveake> :)
[11:23] <daveake> priyesh - yes, you arrange for the o/p pin to deliver 2 voltages about 0.5V apart IIRC to the NTX2
[11:23] <fsphil> my 300 baud signal was picked up over 500km away
[11:23] <daveake> Cool. 300 next time then :)
[11:24] <priyesh> do the actual 2 voltages you choose make a difference to the signal or is it only the difference between the 2 which matter?
[11:24] <number10> hi guys are you all using the 10mw ntx2?
[11:25] <daveake> The difference gives you the freq range at the receiver
[11:25] <jgrahamc> yes, number10, lots of people are using the 10mW NTX2 and it's the workhorse of most of these flights.
[11:25] <number10> thanks
[11:25] <daveake> There's a V-->F chart on ukhas.org.uk
[11:25] <priyesh> but the actual voltages do not matter?
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[11:25] <daveake> It's fairly linear, so not a lot. Just aim for the middle of the chart
[11:26] <daveake> I used a potential divider to set an average voltage, then pull that up or down with another R going to the processor O/P.
[11:26] <daveake> There's a slightly more complicated version which uses 2 o/ps
[11:27] <priyesh> at the moment i'm planning to have 2 o/ps
[11:27] <fsphil> not sure where the 2-pin method came from
[11:27] <priyesh> http://pastie.org/private/fdci6z1uarbulygstmir3w
[11:27] <priyesh> does that look okay?
[11:28] <priyesh> the board is 3v3
[11:28] <daveake> I stared at that and couldn't for the life of me figure out what the advantage was, so I did the single o/p method
[11:28] <number10> there is a schematic on Robert Harrisons site http://www.robertharrison.org/images/icarus2/Icarus-sch.pdf
[11:28] <priyesh> daveake: do you have a link to somewhere where that method is described?
[11:28] <fsphil> I ended up with just two resistors
[11:29] <daveake> You put 2 R's in series between the power rails. The join goes to the NTX2 input. It also goes to another R that goes back to the processor O/P
[11:30] <daveake> I haven't seen it anywhere; I just thought it was the obvious way to do it :)
[11:30] <fsphil> the ntx2 has a 100kohm resistor to ground already
[11:30] <jgrahamc> priyesh: using my NTX2 voltage divider calculator (http://blog.jgc.org/2011/01/voltage-divider-calculator-for.html) your configuration comes out as...
[11:30] <daveake> Indeed; I went for lower R's to keep the impedance down in case it picked up noise from the processor
[11:30] <jgrahamc> ... two voltages 1.61 and 1.34 which is a shift of 0.27V or 446Hz
[11:30] <jgrahamc> So, that look OK to me.
[11:31] <priyesh> jgrahamc: that looks interesting.. but i don't have apple numbers
[11:31] <priyesh> jgrahamc: ah.. thanks for that!
[11:31] <daveake> I also put the NTX2 right next to the antenna to keep it away from the digital stuff
[11:31] <priyesh> so all should be fine with this: http://pastie.org/private/fdci6z1uarbulygstmir3w
[11:32] <priyesh> how do you go about converting the difference in voltage to the shift?
[11:32] <daveake> See the chart http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:radio_modules
[11:33] <jgrahamc> I assumed linearity in my spreadsheet.
[11:33] <priyesh> could anyone convert the apple file to excel please?
[11:33] <rjharrison> Darkside, do you have the SQL on?
[11:34] <jgrahamc> Sure. What's your email address?
[11:34] <priyesh> jgrahamc: i'll PM it to you.. thanks again :)
[11:35] <fsphil> daveake, my plan for the next one is to keep everything as close together as possible :)
[11:35] <jgrahamc> Actually, I'll just upload it to my blog so anyone can get it.
[11:36] <simhed> hey.. has anyone used these Hwoyee balloons? i'm wondering if using 1600g one would be an acceptable replacement for KCI-1500
[11:36] <simhed> seems to be a shortage of KCI-1500s
[11:37] <daveake> fsphil - :-). But you probably know what you're doing, and I probably don't :)
[11:37] <NigeyS> anyone used a mediatek 3329 gps chip that managed to get the pwrsav mode working?
[11:38] <fsphil> I'm making it up as I go along :)
[11:41] <daveake> lol
[11:41] <daveake> (I no longer say "LOL" because the stats thing said that my CAPS LOCK was obviously broken) :-)
[11:42] <rjharrison> fsphil, the 2 pin cam from me :) cause it was very simple (like me) 1 pin would be just as easy
[11:42] <fsphil> ah-ha! :)
[11:42] <daveake> aha indeed :)
[11:43] <fsphil> I think the 1-pin way is a bit easier .. certainly from a programming point of view
[11:43] <daveake> Also, originally, I didn't have a spare pin!
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[11:47] <rjharrison> I took the simple plan of I need two V's sor 2 pins and 2 different R's woudl do it. However if you want a constant 0 then ony one pin is needed to up the V for a 1 assuming the 0 is connected directly to the correct V
[11:47] <rjharrison> sor = so
[11:49] <daveake> My thinking was "need 2 states, so 1 pin will do it". Then you have a pot divider (using the NTX2 internal R if you're cheapskate like fsphil ;-) ), with the processor pin pulling the voltage up a bit or down a bit.
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[11:51] <fsphil> my idea was to have a resistor from the 3.3v rail to the ntx2, so combined with the internal 100k resistor the frequency was roughly half. another resistor (much higher) went from the microcontroller pin to the ntx2. this second resistor has a high enough resistance that it only varies the voltage slightly
[11:51] <daveake> Yep.
[11:51] <rjharrison> One pin shows a deeper level of understanding of electroincs than I had at the time. It's not much better now. I like the idea of using the NTX2 r
[11:51] <fsphil> which is more or less what you just described daveake lol
[11:52] <fsphil> I did the 2-pin way on my first flight too :)
[11:52] <daveake> 1 pin shows that those 3 years just about passing my electronics degree 30 years ago weren't completely wasted!
[11:52] <rjharrison> lol
[11:52] <rjharrison> They had potential dividers then ...#
[11:52] <rjharrison> just not uC's i guess
[11:52] <daveake> But I did stare at that 2-pin circuit for a while, thinking "this guy must know something that I've missed" :)
[11:53] <daveake> they had valves then too lol
[11:53] <fsphil> on the plus side if you did it right, you could have a four-level digital mode
[11:53] <fsphil> not sure if there'd be any advantage
[11:53] <daveake> :). Go on, send audio between packets, you know you want to ...
[11:53] <rjharrison> lol
[11:53] <M0JSN> Matt_soton came up with a pretty neat RTTY modulator on Apex II
[11:53] <M0JSN> http://www.apexhab.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/apextech.pdf
[11:54] <rjharrison> It would be cool to do dominox
[11:54] <daveake> Yes, they had micros. I built a Z80 computer from scratch when I was there. One reason why I nearly flunked the degree, though I did learn a lot of other stuff :)
[11:54] <fsphil> I'd like to try olivia
[11:54] <M0JSN> see page 7
[11:54] <fsphil> the thing with dominoex and olivia is the ntx2's frequency drift
[11:54] <fsphil> it kinda ruins it
[11:55] <Darkside> mm, as the shift gets closer
[11:55] <Darkside> you could try and quantify the frequency drift with temperature
[11:55] <Darkside> put a temp sensor on the NTX2, nd compensate
[11:55] <fsphil> I think someone tried that once
[11:55] <Darkside> i thought they just did a heated NTX2
[11:55] <daveake> Is it just temperature it drifts with? What about power voltage?
[11:56] <Darkside> or a control loop for heating it
[11:56] <M0JSN> daveake: internal regulator
[11:56] <fsphil> someone did one with a temperature sensor, and an analogue out that adjust with the temperature
[11:56] <daveake> Seemed to drift when I switched from USB power to battery or vice versa
[11:56] <M0JSN> so as long as Vcc is >2V8 you're ok
[11:56] <fsphil> or at least I remember it -- I could be wrong
[11:56] <daveake> OK
[11:57] <daveake> Of course it would depend on the processor power pin too, so tat would need t be solid. Which it should be.
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[11:58] <rjharrison> temp is the prob
[11:59] <M0JSN> I seem to remember someone saying it's the multiplier stage rather than the crystal that's a problem
[11:59] <daveake> OK. Then an oven or temp compensation is the solution.
[11:59] <fsphil> I think the best solution is to fix the data mode so that it can track the changes
[11:59] <M0JSN> of course errors in crystal frequency are multiplied...
[11:59] <M0JSN> fsphil: yeah I agree
[12:00] <daveake> 100Hz is only a 0.00002% shift on the xtal
[12:00] <fsphil> it's trickier with modes like olivia and dominoex but should still be possible
[12:01] <M0JSN> daveake: that's pretty much the nub of the problem
[12:01] <M0JSN> we have to use small shifts because we need to stay within the amateur radio's audio passband
[12:01] <M0JSN> which is like, 3kHz, if you're lucky
[12:02] <fsphil> I wonder if radiometrix could produce a more stable version.. though it'll be expensive I bet
[12:03] <M0JSN> fsphil: might be worth an email, they tend to be pretty good at replying to tech stuff
[12:03] <daveake> According to wikipedia (yes...), 10 degrees is typically 2 mins a year, which is 0.00003%. So my dodgy calculation says it'll be out by 150Hz per 1 degrees C
[12:03] <daveake> 10 degrees
[12:03] <daveake> silly kebrod
[12:04] <fsphil> although in saying all that, rtty + a bit of error correction would probably be just as good as dominoex
[12:06] <fsphil> enough so that it can decode through the fades as the payload spins
[12:09] Action: Darkside is modelling components in 3d
[12:10] <Darkside> yaaaay
[12:12] <fsphil> straight into the action
[12:18] <daveake> fsphil - you said before about sending jpeg images over radio. How do you avoid the complete image being corrupted if a packet goes missing? With bitmap data it's easy - send a scan line or a rectangle at once, and you only lose that part. With jpeg though it's compressed so wouldn't a missing section potentially mess up the entire image?
[12:18] <daveake> I read that jpeg has a block size, so you do you send those blocks as packets?
[12:20] <daveake> I know how birmap images are constructed but I know sqrt(nothing) about jpeg.
[12:21] <Darkside> fsphil: nah, i'm just fucking around atm
[12:22] <Darkside> but i figure i'd fuck around with something that might end up being useful
[12:22] <fsphil> the jpeg (well, the version I'm using) breaks the image up into 16x16 blocks
[12:22] <daveake> Ah, I was hoping it's something like that.
[12:22] <fsphil> (technically 8x8 blocks... )
[12:22] <daveake> So you only lose a block.
[12:23] <daveake> I'll get a camera and have a play.
[12:23] <fsphil> the DC value (average colour) in each block is relative to the previous
[12:23] <daveake> Oh ...
[12:23] <fsphil> so if you loose a block the colour is messed up :)
[12:23] <daveake> Gottit
[12:23] <fsphil> and that's if the decoder can continue reading
[12:23] <daveake> Sure
[12:24] <fsphil> I send extra data in the header of each packet that has a pointer to where the next block begins
[12:24] <rjharrison> anyone know why an ajax call would not return from php when the help of the call seems to execute just fine?
[12:24] <daveake> I wonder if you could include the "DC of previous block" in the packet, then have the receiving software construct a 16x16 block of that colour to replace the missing block(s)
[12:24] <daveake> Then the new packet has something to be realtive to
[12:25] <fsphil> what I did was to have the DC value be an absolute one, rather than relative
[12:25] <daveake> OK, that'd work too.
[12:26] <fsphil> there's some techy details here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[12:26] <chris_99> rjharrison - have you tried using Firebug and selecting Net to make sure it's sending the query ok
[12:26] <daveake> The 16x16 blocks are what the camera happens to produce, or could you specify that? Whatever camera I buy may be different, so obviously I'd need to find out what block size it's using when it builds the jpeg data.
[12:27] <rjharrison> Thnks chris_99 I'll try that now
[12:27] <daveake> Ah, thanks for the link fsphil. I'll read that soon.
[12:27] <fsphil> daveake, the camera I have uses a fixed size
[12:27] <daveake> TVM
[12:28] <jgrahamc> JPEG's typically use a 8x8, 16x8 or 16x16 block size
[12:30] <daveake> Thanks! This should be fun :)
[12:30] <fsphil> yea, that really confused me for ages
[12:31] <rjharrison> 301 moved permanantly
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Also - there are two block sizes.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> One for lumiance, one for chrominance
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Typically
[12:33] <jgrahamc> Yes, that too. I did battle with the JPEG format for this project: http://blog.jgc.org/2008/02/tonight-im-going-to-write-myself-aston.html
[12:34] <fsphil> they're all 8x8.. though the U and V channel blocks are stretched to fit 16x16
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> yes - that
[12:36] <fsphil> ooh looks interesting jgrahamc, will have a read later
[12:38] <chris_99> you can only perform AJAX requests on your own domain normally if i recall correctly, rjharrison
[12:39] <rjharrison> chris_99, I'm not gay but I could kiss you! I'v been battling this bugger for a while. Changed url from www.robertharrison.org to robertharrison.org and all is well
[12:39] <rjharrison> Good stuff that net part of Firebug
[12:40] <chris_99> :) yeah its awesome
[12:40] <rjharrison> It's proabbaly an issue with the DNS entries or the apache setting in httpd conf I'll have a look
[12:40] <rjharrison> Nice one sir, Glad I asked
[12:44] <fsphil> the one thing I haven't managed properly yet in the ssdv code is to have it adjust the data properly when the quantisation tables don't match
[12:44] <fsphil> I was able to cheat a bit as the camera I use has a fixed table for all images it produces
[12:47] <daveake> :)
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[13:20] <rjharrison> Upu, looks good for the w/e atm
[13:20] <NigeyS> like the online shopping didnt just take 2 and a half hours :@
[13:21] <Upu> jolly good
[13:21] <Upu> let me know which hotel and i'll book it closer to the time
[13:21] <daveake> Just £7.19 for a 640 x 480 Toshiba camera at proto-pic. i2c. Looks not to bad to interface to.
[13:21] <jgrahamc> Is there a launch this weekend?
[13:21] <Upu> what time were you wanting to drive down ?
[13:21] <Upu> possibly mine jgrahamc
[13:22] <jgrahamc> Nice Upu
[13:22] <fsphil> daveake, isn't that one with a funky parallel interface?
[13:23] <Zuph> Morning, #highaltitude
[13:23] <fsphil> hiya Zuph
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[13:24] <Zuph> How's the other side of the pond doing today?
[13:24] <daveake> Ph yeah ... has D0-D7 as well as the i2c stuff
[13:24] <daveake> Anyway, looks far too small for my eyesight to solder up :)
[13:25] <fsphil> protopic also have the 4d camera I use, and the linksprite which I have but haven't tested
[13:25] <fsphil> mostly wet Zuph :)
[13:26] <Zuph> Heh, typical :-p
[13:26] <fsphil> they've got some high resolution cameras too, but it would take forever to transmit a 1600x1200 image :)
[13:26] <Dan-K2VOL> hey zuph
[13:26] <daveake> Serial one is £52 inc VAT. It'll save time and hair through :)
[13:27] <Zuph> Morning Dan-K2VOL, any luck yesterday?
[13:27] <daveake> Yeah, it's the 4D one. Advantage #1 then is a live IRC support channel ;-)
[13:28] <fsphil> lol
[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph yes indeed, though I had to build a GPS repeater arduino to stick between the sim and the flight computer - i repeats every incoming GPS block 10 times each second :-P
[13:29] <Zuph> lol
[13:29] <Dan-K2VOL> fooled the FCPU enough to get it to stop erroring
[13:29] <Dan-K2VOL> just 15 min before I had to leave
[13:30] <Dan-K2VOL> so Nathan and I slapped it on SpeedBall-1 and hoisted it toward the ceiling, watching telemetry
[13:30] <daveake> fsphil the Linksprite seems a bit heavy on power - it says 80-100mA. The 4D one is about 60mA. Didn't see any standby mode on either when I glanced through
[13:31] <Zuph> Heh, no trickery. There's a reason we ramped up the GPS speed. Has to do with the reliability (or lack thereof) in our parsing routine, and the WDT limitations on the AVR.
[13:31] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
[13:32] <Dan-K2VOL> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/16074548 is a video of the short test, showing the large print telemetry
[13:32] <Zuph> During launch season, it was easier to fix by changing the settings than anything else
[13:33] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph it looks like the VSpeed integration time will need to be shortened for indoor use
[13:33] <SpeedEvil> On the launch a couple of days ago that apparantly landed on the substation - did it really?
[13:33] <Dan-K2VOL> yikes that's scary
[13:34] <NigeyS> think it landed quite close in a canal
[13:34] <griffonbot> Received email: pete edwards "Re: [UKHAS] AOR8000 wideband receiver"
[13:34] <Dan-K2VOL> well SpeedEvil it's a shame for the plight of balloons that the substation aimed at, and subsequently hit the balloon. - According to Fox News
[13:34] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: No problem. Just need to change the v-speed integration timing.
[13:36] <Dan-K2VOL> excellent! you can watch as I hoisted it up at a sort of constant rate, the vspeed kept climing for about 2 minutes after it had stopped at the ceiling :-P
[13:36] <Dan-K2VOL> (just kidding SpeedEvil, Fox portrayed the NoTW scandal here as the NoTW being the victim of hacking)
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: ...
[13:37] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Well don't lift the balloon 200 metres in a few seconds! :-p
[13:38] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
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[13:39] <fsphil> daveake, the 4D goes to sleep after a while if it's not used iirc
[13:40] <fsphil> not something I've tested though
[13:40] <daveake> Thanks, will look into that
[13:40] <fsphil> the sparkfun version (different camera, same chipset) had a sleep command. but it didn't wake up without a power cycle
[13:41] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph we'll definitely have to set flight phase manually, I think it was waiting for the launch plug or something, stayed in prefight phase
[13:43] <Zuph> Meh, leave it in pre-flight, manually enable auto-balllast. Avoids issues with mayday mode.
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[13:44] <daveake> It's not the end of the world to run it continuously. I'd want to use separate batteries though, to stop it running down the processor battery after the end of the flight.
[13:45] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
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[13:47] <fsphil> I had it running for about 18 hours with camera, gps and ntx2 - from 4 rechargable AAs
[13:48] <fsphil> also had it stop sending images on the way down, so the camera might have gone to sleep. not sure how long it ran for in the tree
[13:51] <fsphil> the camera survived a month up there so top marks for durability :)
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[13:59] <daveake> fsphil, OK at 3000mAh that's less than 166mA total. My GPS is 80-100mA; NTX2 is 20mA I think, Arduino I forget but probabyl about the same, camera another 80. So mine would run for maybe 15 hours. Should be enough :)
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[13:59] <fsphil> you'd hope so lol
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[14:28] Action: SpeedEvil spots an altitude record on the tracker. :)
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[14:33] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference - request for presentations"
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[14:40] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference - request for presentations"
[14:42] <Upu> could have just responded here I guess
[14:42] <fsphil> hehe
[14:42] <Randomskk> :P
[14:42] <fsphil> not everyone on the list is here I guess
[14:42] <fsphil> just considering the options, would love to attend
[14:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Spike (Chris Foote) "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference - request for presentations"
[14:43] <fsphil> the flight is pretty cheap -- cheaper than a tank of helium :)
[14:45] <WillDuckworth> go for it fsphil
[14:45] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference - request for presentations"
[14:47] <fsphil> probably will
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil, go ahead and book one for me too :-P
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[14:50] <daveake> The flight is probably cheaper than the train into London :)
[14:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Robert Deverill "[UKHAS] 2nd Hand Ham Radio Equipment"
[14:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Spike (Chris Foote) "Re: [UKHAS] UKHAS Conference - request for presentations"
[14:53] <fsphil> you should definitely come over Dan-K2VOL!
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[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL> oh fsphil if I suddenly get rich this summer I'll be there!
[14:53] <fsphil> lol
[14:53] <fsphil> it could happen!
[14:54] <fsphil> what's the cheapest trans-atlantic flight these days?
[14:54] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] 2nd Hand Ham Radio Equipment"
[14:54] <daveake> about 4 bottle of helium L(
[14:55] <daveake> :)
[14:55] <fsphil> eek
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[15:01] <fsphil> bah, easyjet. cheap flights but they pile on the extras
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[15:02] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil looks like about £570 half what I thouhgt it would be!
[15:02] <fsphil> that's not bad!
[15:02] <fsphil> return?
[15:03] <Dan-K2VOL> round trip!
[15:03] <fsphil> sweet! that almost makes the TSA inspection worth it :)
[15:03] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe, yeah makes me seriously consider it
[15:04] <fsphil> might head over there next year if I start saving now
[15:04] <Hibby> The tsa are scary..
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, yes they are.
[15:05] <Hibby> My experience went from light hearted to bad when I scratched my head...
[15:05] <Laurenceb> ive seen £390 to mexico
[15:05] <Darkside> hey all
[15:05] <Laurenceb> charter flight
[15:05] <Hibby> And he asked me why unwashed so nervous looking.
[15:05] <Darkside> in my accomodation now :D
[15:05] <Darkside> resnet is interesting
[15:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Colin Tuckley "Re: [UKHAS] 2nd Hand Ham Radio Equipment"
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[15:15] <daveake> For cut-downs, I've seen pyros mentioned a few times recently rather than nichrome. Why's that? More reliable? Less power? More fun?? "If they're good enough for NASA they're good enough for me"?
[15:15] <Dan-K2VOL> probably more reliable and simpler Dave
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[15:15] <Dan-K2VOL> less power likely
[15:15] <Dan-K2VOL> but more dangerous
[15:16] <Dan-K2VOL> and legal in fewer places
[15:16] <daveake> I guess for nicrhome you need a hefty FET or relay or something
[15:16] <Randomskk> way more reliable
[15:16] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah a fet, dont' use relays
[15:16] <Hibby> There was talk of a passive Citroen for the next sunset launches
[15:16] <Hibby> Cutdown
[15:17] <Hibby> Thanks autocorrect.
[15:17] <daveake> My wife has a Ctroen; it's often passive :)
[15:17] <Dan-K2VOL> ha
[15:17] <Hibby> Having a mini balloon in the line that,LLC burst at the set altitude
[15:18] <daveake> Novel
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[15:18] <daveake> Where does one go for pyro supply?
[15:18] <griffonbot> Received email: Graham GW8RAK "[UKHAS] Re: 2nd Hand Ham Radio Equipment"
[15:18] <Hibby> Were talking about passive parachute launch too based on pressure difference
[15:20] <Upu> daveake you can make them
[15:20] <daveake> OOer, that sounds "exciting" :)
[15:20] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support#pyrotechnic_cutdown_device
[15:20] <daveake> Like when I rebuilt fireworks as a kid ...
[15:21] <daveake> That doesn't look anywhere near dangerous enough ;)
[15:21] <Upu> http://www.rocketstore.co.uk/shop/product.asp?cookiecheck=yes&P_ID=429&strPageHistory=search&strKeywords=match&numPageStartPosition=1&strSearchCriteria=any&PT_ID=all
[15:21] <daveake> Actually it does
[15:21] <daveake> Cheers :)
[15:23] <Upu> or you could try rjharrison's version where there is black powder in the tube
[15:23] <Randomskk> we like to use black powder
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[15:23] <rjharrison> Smokeless pwder is more stable
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[15:24] <rjharrison> Pyros http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157619368022480/
[15:25] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3603060662/in/set-72157619368022480/ better link
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[15:26] <daveake> Thanks rjharrison :)
[15:27] <WillDuckworth> rjharrison, where's the smokeless powder from?
[15:28] <rjharrison> Local gun shop :-)
[15:28] <WillDuckworth> sorted, thanks
[15:28] <rjharrison> You may need a licence. I got the westyorkshire firearms woman to sort it out for me to collect
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[15:30] <chris_99> you can get the material to make gunpowder from ebay, but i wouldn't risk making it
[15:31] <Hibby> You'd be on a terrorist register pretty quickly...
[15:31] <fsphil> esp. if I did it ;)
[15:31] <fsphil> actually I wonder if that's still the case
[15:31] <WillDuckworth> lmao fsphil
[15:31] <Hibby> Hahah
[15:31] <chris_99> hehe
[15:31] <fsphil> a lot of those old laws have expired now
[15:31] <Hibby> Has it calmed down any after the 12th?
[15:32] <chris_99> i didn't realise it was illegal to make actually
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> It isn't.
[15:32] <Hibby> Was beginning to get exciting before I left.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> If you have a fireworks factory licence.
[15:32] <fsphil> Hibby, was pretty much confined to a small area in the city - they're always doing something there
[15:32] <Hibby> True enough
[15:33] <fsphil> if it's not a riot, they're throwing bricks and crap at police or firemen. bunch of idiots
[15:33] <Hibby> I was shocked that the falls / shankhill are tourist areas now... I was told as a kid to always keep Out!
[15:34] <fsphil> yea it's odd, some of what where really bad areas are all quiet now
[15:34] Action: Hibby boots into single user mode
[15:34] <Hibby> Grumble
[15:35] <fsphil> aah single user mode .. why didn't Flynn try that
[15:35] <Hibby> Did you not see in legacy when he three his weight around as root?
[15:35] <Hibby> In that club
[15:36] <fsphil> best bit of the movie!
[15:36] <fsphil> what root can't kill a process though
[15:36] <Hibby> A cheroot!
[15:36] <Hibby> Dangit
[15:36] <fsphil> unless the grid uses selinux
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Root on harmattan/maemo 6
[15:36] <Hibby> Chroot
[15:36] <rjharrison> Pyro film http://www.robertharrison.org/images/cutdown/icarus-pyro.wmv
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> It has a deeply annoying security infrastructure.
[15:38] <chris_99> cool video :)
[15:38] <chris_99> are they model rocket igniters you're using
[15:39] <rjharrison> Yep but now use ematches
[15:45] <fsphil> How heavy are your pyros rjharrison?
[15:45] <rjharrison> 10g
[15:45] <rjharrison> perhaps less
[15:46] <Upu> where did you get your ignitors from Rob ?
[15:47] <Upu> no messing about with that pyro :)
[15:48] <fsphil> the weight is excellent
[15:49] <fsphil> still like the idea of the nichrome wire, though it is fragile
[15:49] <fsphil> might test it with a dummy payload
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[15:52] <rjharrison> I'm about to get 2400 from the us for 650 pounds if there is interest for some
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[15:52] <Upu> lol
[15:52] <Upu> Well I'll take a few but not 2400 :)
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> I prefer my cutdowns based on 350C ceramic resistors.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> yes, they do take 1 min to cutdown.
[15:52] <Upu> nah explosions are good
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> But you can actually test them.
[15:53] <Upu> NASA use explosive bolts for a reason :)
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[15:53] <SpeedEvil> And they are used completely within spec
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[15:54] <SamSilver> NASA also use parachutes but never land in tree!
[15:54] <SamSilver> trees*
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> They do land on cars though.
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL1> ha
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL1> I interviewed to be on that launch crew several years ago
[15:55] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: the pyros run completely within spec too :P
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL1> even then I was shocked at now non-documented everything about launching the balloon was
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[15:55] <Upu> slow cut downs are fine for a float condition but if you're doing it to detect a burst it needs to be very quick
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL1> it was all basically on-the-job leaarning
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> indeed Upu
[15:56] <Upu> ok afk
[15:56] <fsphil> I'm using mine as an after-landing-in-a-tree backup
[15:57] <fsphil> figure the payload should fall pretty easily after it cuts the cords
[15:57] <Randomskk> I want to make a special after-landing-in-a-tree module for going actually inside the box which connects to the rigging outside the box
[15:57] <Randomskk> use short range radio for it
[15:57] <Randomskk> but also fun would be to implement photo/video download over 2.4ghz
[15:58] <number10> hi fsphil - what system are you using for the cutdown?
[15:58] <fsphil> none yet number10, just considering my options atm - probably going to test nichrome wire to burn through the cord
[15:59] <fsphil> as explosives may be hard to get here
[15:59] <Randomskk> heh
[15:59] <Randomskk> or at least, hard to get legally? :P
[15:59] <fsphil> lol yes
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[16:00] <number10> I suppose you could dismantle a firework and use some estes model rocket ignighters
[16:00] <fsphil> fireworks are hard to get here too
[16:00] <number10> where are you based?
[16:00] <fsphil> there are gun clubs, I'm sure they'd be able to tell me
[16:00] <fsphil> number10, n.ireland
[16:01] <fsphil> I'm sure the pyro would be a lot more reliable
[16:01] <fsphil> though I suppose it risks setting fire to the tree it's in
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[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Silly tesco.
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Just to let you know that we can only keep your slot until 00:00 Your delivery slot is currently reserved for: Monday 1st January 0001 00:00 - 00:00 Would you like us to extend your reservation for a further 2 hour(s)?
[16:03] <number10> i wonder if itrs legal to set off pyrotecnics remotely - does anyone here release the payload at high altitude if the baloon is off course
[16:04] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, got the DeLorian ready?
[16:04] <rjharrison> Yes all the time
[16:04] <rjharrison> Alot of my launches rely on payload cutdown at alt
[16:04] <fsphil> it's a requirement in the US isn't it?
[16:04] <fsphil> (a cut-down)
[16:06] <fsphil> rjharrison, where do you put the pyro in the cord. if the parachute is 2/3 of the way up, wouldn't it need to be above that?
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[16:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> fsphil, not for normal amateur flights
[16:07] <rjharrison> ahh see info para then is close to payload. Infact it's all a bit tighter perhaps 3m of coord
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> only for 'heavy' ones above 5.4 kg
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> and then you need TWO independent cutdown systems
[16:07] <fsphil> makes sense Dan-K2VOL1
[16:07] <number10> robert do you control the release by having a receiver in the payload or do you set come co-oorinate limits in the controller?
[16:07] <fsphil> I remember now a few that didn't have a cut-down there
[16:09] <rjharrison> all in the payload ATM rx is too unreliable ATM
[16:11] <rjharrison> Usually set on ALT = 30k
[16:11] <rjharrison> or MAXALT-ALT>100m
[16:12] <fsphil> you'd need some way to detect a float now :)
[16:12] <rjharrison> There is some basic flight stuff that trys to work out if it's going in the sea and abortes
[16:12] <fsphil> like a time limit
[16:12] <number10> thanks roger - your paload cutdown looks pretty cool http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157619368022480/
[16:14] <number10> oops sory robert
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[16:19] <rjharrison> Thanks steve randals design in the main
[16:26] <fsphil> anyone use a mechanical cut-down? like a pair of scissors driven by a servo
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[16:26] <mattltm> That sounds interesting fsphil :)
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[16:26] <mattltm> Nice idea
[16:27] <mattltm> Have you seen dan's glue cutdown?
[16:27] <fsphil> yea - I like that plan
[16:28] <mattltm> how about some kind of ring pull device?
[16:28] <number10> I suppose you could use a servo or solenoid maybe
[16:28] <mattltm> Like a small hinge, baloon on one side, payload on the other. Servi pulls the hinge pin out?
[16:28] <mattltm> *Servo
[16:29] <number10> yes
[16:29] <fsphil> aah
[16:30] <fsphil> that's a good plan too
[16:31] <mattltm> lol, you will end up with a lot of 1/2 hinges :)
[16:31] <fsphil> not even a hinge, just a pin that can be moved electrically. the cord can be looped around it and tied with a knot
[16:34] <rjharrison> Think about temperature affecting mecahical devices
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[16:34] <mattltm> Good point. :)
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> replacing the servo grease with much lighter oil is generally wise
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> Also, you can cheat
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> in fact I'd remove teh grease entirely
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> NASA does that with their big balloons
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> wiggle the servo on the way up
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> it's not going to run much :-)
[16:35] <SpeedEvil> True
[16:36] <number10> I wonder if fuse wire may be an idea with a seperate lithium battery
[16:36] <Hibby> We did that
[16:36] <number10> any good?
[16:36] <Hibby> Worked on the successful launch
[16:36] <daveake> The rate my payload rotated at, I could fix a nut to the top and screw into that a bolt attached to the line. By the time it reaches 30km it'll have unscrewed itself :-)
[16:37] <Dan-K2VOL1> number10 we usually use nichrome on separate lithium AA pack
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[16:37] <number10> thanks dan
[16:37] <Hibby> On the one it mattered, the payload was destroyed on takeoff.
[16:37] <Hibby> Nichrome wasbgood also.
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[16:48] <Darkside> evening all
[16:53] <rjharrison> I need to buy some pyros but they are going to be 650 pounds for 2400. Can't get less than this. Who would like to buy some and how many?
[16:54] <Upu> -> 20
[16:54] <Upu> not exactly alot :)
[16:55] <Upu> I'll take 100
[16:55] <mattltm> What are they rjharrison? Link?
[16:55] <rjharrison> Emataches one sec
[16:55] <Upu> not exactly expensive
[16:55] <Upu> afk a few
[16:55] <fsphil> I may get a few
[16:57] <rjharrison> http://www.electricmatch.com/product_uk.html
[16:59] <mattltm> They look like fun :)
[17:00] <rjharrison> They should be
[17:01] <rjharrison> I'm hoping that I can off load a few on people.
[17:01] <rjharrison> I don't ming shelling out the dosh but I would like to get 300 pounds back over some period. There are a few people here in the UK who would like some
[17:02] <mattltm> 28p each?
[17:03] <Darkside> hrmmm, nobody from australia is awake when i'm going to be online most :<
[17:22] <rjharrison> mattltm, yep I think so
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[17:22] <rjharrison> Just need to finalise all the costs and then work it out
[17:22] <rjharrison> There are some restrictions about just posting them about
[17:26] <chris_99> out of interest, how are they better than rocket igniters
[17:26] <mattltm> i'll take 100 mate :)
[17:31] <fsphil> jet lagged yet Darkside?
[17:33] <rjharrison> The rocke ignighters require alot high voltages and are temperamental
[17:33] <rjharrison> These are the tools for the job
[17:33] <Darkside> fsphil: u; forcing myself to stay up until about 9pm
[17:34] <Darkside> then i'll sleep
[17:34] <Upu> ah jet lag :)
[17:34] <fsphil> good plan
[17:34] <chris_99> aha got you
[17:34] <Upu> yes best way stay up
[17:35] <Darkside> i was very happy when i found out Dr Pepper is sold here!
[17:35] <Upu> how much is a box of those rjharrison ?
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[17:35] <Upu> I like the ones with the long leads
[17:35] <Darkside> also groceries seem far cheaper here than in australia
[17:35] <Hibby> Darkside: where are you?
[17:36] <Darkside> Hibby: Bath University
[17:36] <Upu> bought any petrol yet Darkside ?
[17:36] <Hibby> Cool
[17:36] <Darkside> no lol
[17:36] <Hibby> Hahah
[17:36] <Darkside> no car :P
[17:36] <Darkside> still, cheap groceries is good1
[17:36] <rjharrison> well there are 2400 in a box and it looks like it's going to be about 650 pounds. Will post invoice
[17:36] <Hibby> Must be $10/gall over there now.
[17:36] <Upu> 30cm leads ?
[17:37] <rjharrison> Yep it makes sense to use speaker wire for the connections
[17:37] <rjharrison> more tollerant of flex in winf
[17:37] <rjharrison> wind
[17:37] <Upu> ok I'll take a bunch off you
[17:37] <Upu> put a mail out , Steve should give a box away free with each Hwoyee balloon :)
[17:37] <Darkside> hmm WTF is up with sunrise and sunset times around here
[17:37] <rjharrison> Given the interest I'll buy a box and hopefully managed to sell 1/2 at cost
[17:38] <chris_99> i'll take a 100 off you rjharrison
[17:38] <Upu> just watch the UK postage you'll have to pay extra to post them
[17:38] <rjharrison> I only need 23 people to tale a hundered and i'm sortes
[17:38] <Darkside> JESUS CHRIST WTF 16 hour days
[17:38] <Upu> well you got 2
[17:38] <fsphil> lol
[17:38] <rjharrison> Yep I'll investigater
[17:38] <Darkside> WHAT IS THIS HIGH-LATITUDE MASNESS
[17:38] <Upu> someone not been to sleep for 36 hours ?
[17:38] <Darkside> madness*
[17:39] <griffonbot> @apexhab: The Apex Alpha schematic is complete. Testing will commence shortly. http://j.mp/oMEPmA #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/93011905941221376]
[17:39] <fsphil> Darkside, at this time of year the sky never truly gets dark
[17:39] <Darkside> Upu: nah, i slept for a bit
[17:39] <Darkside> fsphil: yeah this is weird
[17:39] <Darkside> very weird
[17:39] <Hibby> Darkside: at home we get 24 hour days
[17:39] <Darkside> its goign to futz with my body clock
[17:39] <fsphil> annoying if you've a telescope
[17:39] <Hibby> Think they'll be done by now though
[17:39] <Darkside> telescope wont work well atm anyway :P
[17:39] <Darkside> blanket cloud cover
[17:40] <fsphil> patchy here atm, showers then sun
[17:40] <fsphil> very annoying
[17:40] <Hibby> I know why I'm hot...
[17:40] Action: Hibby puts on the air-conditioning
[17:41] <Darkside> hmm
[17:41] <Darkside> oh cool i have access to iplayer
[17:42] <Hibby> :)
[17:42] <Darkside> YES I HAVE A TV LICENSE
[17:42] <Darkside> >_>
[17:42] <Darkside> of course i do >_>
[17:42] <Upu> I have one you can use mine
[17:42] <Darkside> lol
[17:42] <Upu> Can give you access to iplayer when you're back in Oz if you want
[17:42] <Darkside> FFS why is my tuner card not workinggg
[17:42] <Hibby> Don't need a license if its not live
[17:42] <Upu> I proxy for my Czech mate
[17:43] <Darkside> need a better cable to hook it up to the antenna
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL1> do they really still drive around looking for clandestine tvs?
[17:43] <chris_99> i doubt that works anymore
[17:43] <Hibby> Sometimes
[17:43] <mattltm> Yes :)
[17:43] <Darkside> they use a database
[17:43] <Upu> nah with flat panel tvs
[17:43] <Darkside> when you buy a tv you have to give your address, right?
[17:43] <Upu> yep
[17:43] <mattltm> yes but the store does not check it.
[17:43] <fsphil> plasma tv's are easy to spot
[17:44] <Upu> basically you paid to get your address on a "do not call" database
[17:44] <Hibby> The boxes now are so badly shielded they could pick up stray RF from the rx oscillator
[17:44] <fsphil> Darkside, most don't bother anymore. the last two I bought they didn't ask
[17:44] <Upu> however it does pay for a) BBC News b) Top gear c) Ray Mears*
[17:44] <Upu> *sorta he moved to ITV
[17:44] <fsphil> Doctor Who!
[17:44] <Darkside> heh
[17:44] <Darkside> YES
[17:44] <Darkside> oh man when does that strt again?
[17:44] <rjharrison> off home
[17:44] <mattltm> athough ofcom cant tell their arse from their elbow.
[17:44] <fsphil> few months time
[17:44] <rjharrison> Upu, you at home?
[17:44] <Hibby> And matt baker on the one Show!
[17:44] <Upu> I am
[17:45] <fsphil> quite like Merlin too
[17:45] <Hibby> Nerd
[17:45] <fsphil> :p
[17:45] <NigelMoby> Lol
[17:45] <fsphil> and Being Human
[17:45] <Hibby> ;)
[17:45] <rjharrison> do you want to try 144.600
[17:45] <Upu> already on it
[17:45] <Darkside> woooo pete tong
[17:45] <rjharrison> cool I'm going to jum p in the car give me 5 and ill put a call out
[17:45] <Upu> lol
[17:46] <Darkside> oh yeah, i have my handheld here
[17:46] <Upu> ok
[17:46] <Darkside> but no license
[17:46] <NigelMoby> Meh the cheesemaster
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[17:46] <Darkside> can i take ane xam here?
[17:46] <Darkside> an exam*
[17:46] <fsphil> foundation should be trivial for you
[17:46] <Upu> yeah
[17:46] <Upu> I think
[17:47] <Darkside> oh there is foundation here?
[17:47] <Upu> Darkside http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=dr%20who
[17:48] <Darkside> heh
[17:48] <Hibby> Darkside: how long you over for?
[17:48] <Darkside> Hibby: until the end of august
[17:48] <fsphil> I wonder if I can bring my little handheld over in the plane to london
[17:49] <fsphil> easyjet seem to have a stupid bag policy
[17:49] <Hibby> Then you may struggle to get one time wise
[17:49] <fsphil> £18 to carry anything
[17:49] <Hibby> Lol
[17:49] <fsphil> would be cheaper for me to post my stuff ahead
[17:49] <Darkside> Hibby: oh?
[17:49] <Darkside> hrmm, i might just have to do a dodgy and operate using my supervisors license
[17:50] <Darkside> lol
[17:50] <Darkside> i want to call into adelaide using the IRLP
[17:50] <fsphil> "Yes I really am in Australia .. must be really good propagation..."
[17:50] <LazyLeopard> Darkside: What licence do you hold?
[17:50] <mattltm> fsphil: I have taken an 857 in carry on, on easyjet
[17:50] <Hibby> The system is really inefficient.
[17:50] <fsphil> aah sounds good
[17:51] <Darkside> LazyLeopard: only foundation in australia
[17:51] <Darkside> i need advanced to be able to use it in the UK
[17:51] <LazyLeopard> Ah. So not CEPT-portable, then. :/
[17:51] <Darkside> i couldn't get enough examiners together in time for me to do the exam
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[17:51] <Darkside> would be fun to do the advanced exam here, then take that back to australia :P
[17:52] <Darkside> waaaaaait WTF
[17:52] <Darkside> theres a repeater on top of the uni
[17:52] <Darkside> LOL
[17:52] <Hibby> Darkside: gotta do all three, and have one before you can so the others sadly
[17:53] <Darkside> Hibby: what?
[17:53] <Darkside> so i can't just go take the top level exam
[17:53] <LazyLeopard> You're stuck with the "Got to take them all in sequence" problem here too.
[17:53] <Hibby> Nope
[17:53] <LazyLeopard> Exactly.
[17:54] <Darkside> wtffff
[17:54] <Hibby> And you need 2-3 weeks booking time for each
[17:54] <Darkside> i dont have to take them in sequence in australia
[17:54] <Darkside> i just did foundation because i wanted a license asap
[17:54] <Hibby> And that is after the practicals for the first two
[17:54] <Hibby> And even then, I booked an eexam and the papers didn't turn up
[17:55] <LazyLeopard> ...but you can take at least Foundation and Intermediate on the same day if you get things organised. Advanced exams are only at set dates and times, once every two months or so.
[17:55] <Hibby> Its like they don't want people to be on the air
[17:55] <Upu> I did foundation and int on same day
[17:55] <fsphil> I wish I could have
[17:56] <Darkside> haha, theres the local repeater
[17:56] <Darkside> whee
[17:56] <Darkside> 433.1, +1.6MHZ offset, 118.8Hz CTCSS
[17:56] <Darkside> cant talk on it though :<
[17:57] <fsphil> does the uni have a club? they might have an exam scheduled soon
[17:59] <Darkside> they don't
[17:59] <Darkside> i know all the radio researchers now :P
[17:59] <mattltm> It seems like a lot of ukers have had issues getting their tests done.
[17:59] <Upu> the full license exams are a pain
[17:59] <fsphil> I'm still trying to find someone doing the full
[18:00] <fsphil> the nearest club does but the are making it awkward
[18:00] <mattltm> I would highly recomend the club that organised my exams.
[18:00] <fsphil> any clubs in london doing it the day of the conference? :)
[18:00] <mattltm> Well worth traveling to if you want well organised, reliable and informative training :0
[18:00] <Darkside> heh
[18:01] <Darkside> so, who's doing a balloon launch in the next month?
[18:01] <Darkside> and how do i get to where you're launching from :P
[18:03] <LazyLeopard> The October advanced date is 9th (at 10:30am) to co-incide with the RSGB Convention.
[18:03] <LazyLeopard> The August date's 5th August, but the closing date for entries has passed.
[18:04] <Darkside> heh
[18:04] <Darkside> my supervisor is going to look out for opportunities for my to do my standard
[18:05] <fsphil> There's a few nano-payload launches at the weekend potentially
[18:05] <Darkside> i figure i should be able to revise the regs
[18:05] <Darkside> fsphil: oh?
[18:05] <Darkside> this weekend?
[18:05] <fsphil> think so .. NigeyS and jcoxon
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[18:05] <Darkside> ooh
[18:05] <mattltm> LazyLeopard: I plan to come back and sit my advanced with BDARS but am on honeymoon for October :(
[18:05] <Darkside> where are they?
[18:05] <fsphil> there's Upu's launch too but it's fairly far north from you
[18:06] <fsphil> not sure where jcoxon's launching, nigey should be just outside cardiff
[18:06] <Darkside> ooooh
[18:06] <fsphil> if they launch that is
[18:06] <Darkside> just outside cardiff i can make
[18:06] <Darkside> thats close to me
[18:06] <fsphil> tis
[18:06] Action: Darkside looks up train tickets to cardiff
[18:06] <Darkside> whats the cheap rail site?
[18:07] <fsphil> not sure but I wouldn't mind knowing myself :)
[18:07] <LazyLeopard> Anyway, time to head off to this evening's radio club meeting. See y'all later.
[18:07] <fsphil> have fun LazyLeopard
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[18:08] <Darkside> heh
[18:08] <Darkside> well, if it's on i might see if i can tag along :P
[18:08] <Darkside> i need something to do on the weekend
[18:08] <Darkside> i was wanting to visit cardiff anyway
[18:09] <Darkside> if only to go visit the site of torchwood
[18:09] <Darkside> :P
[18:09] <fsphil> lol
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[18:09] <fsphil> the new series is pretty interesting so far
[18:11] <mattltm> Darkside: http://www.thetrainline.com/
[18:11] <Darkside> i havent seen any of the old series
[18:11] <Darkside> so i don't want to start watching yet
[18:11] <fsphil> true
[18:11] <Darkside> or does iplayer have the back-catalogue?
[18:11] <fsphil> the new one is all americanny and big budget
[18:11] <Darkside> i'm sure someone here must have a copy...
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[18:12] <fsphil> not on the iplayer
[18:13] <Darkside> aww
[18:14] <fsphil> first two series where not that good
[18:16] <Darkside> mm
[18:16] <Darkside> MAN ITS IS SO LIGHT
[18:16] <Darkside> freaking high latitudes
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[18:18] <fsphil> what was your latitude back home?
[18:19] <fsphil> also remember you've gone from winter to summer
[18:19] <Darkside> -34
[18:19] <fsphil> aah
[18:19] <fsphil> fair difference there
[18:22] <Darkside> mm
[18:22] <Darkside> its different alright
[18:22] <Darkside> i'll get used to it eventually
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[19:10] <Upu> wait till the stars come out Darkside that will really play with your head :)
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> Darkside: you're in the UK?
[19:14] <Darkside> Laurenceb_ yes
[19:14] <Darkside> Upu: too cloudy for stars
[19:14] <Darkside> but yeah, i'll be checking that
[19:15] <NigeyS> theyre all upsidedown :p
[19:16] <Darkside> haha
[19:16] <Darkside> NigeyS: you launching this weekend?
[19:16] <Upu> its me hopefully
[19:16] <NigeyS> should be yup, will know for definate on thursday
[19:17] <NigeyS> upu is FINALLY getting that pink thing off the ground though :D
[19:17] <Upu> you launching as well ?
[19:17] <Upu> busy weekend :)
[19:17] <Darkside> Upu: you're a bit too far north for me :P
[19:17] <Darkside> NigeyS: you launch near cardiff, right?
[19:17] <NigeyS> Upu, yup, pico launch though
[19:17] <Upu> normally but now ? :)
[19:17] <Upu> mail it across I'll piggy back it :)
[19:18] <NigeyS> yeah DS, your welcome to come along
[19:18] <Upu> Current predictions : http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=44d379aaf0094a8e7acb8d08dee4eeed748ffcca
[19:18] <NigeyS> lol
[19:18] <Upu> not good
[19:18] <NigeyS> blimey, splashdown :/
[19:19] <Darkside> NigeyS: what pico payload?
[19:19] <Darkside> OH MAN
[19:19] <Darkside> i brought my payload with me :-)
[19:19] <Darkside> :D
[19:19] <Darkside> my 434.650MHz one
[19:19] <fsphil> lol
[19:19] <Darkside> it does 25mW, but will anyone notice?
[19:19] <NigeyS> its a ntx2, gps, and temp sensor, testing the burst altitude of fully inflated 36" foil balloons
[19:19] <fsphil> hope that changes soon Upu !
[19:20] <Upu> yep
[19:20] <fsphil> doubt it Darkside
[19:20] <fsphil> I won't tell anyone
[19:20] <Darkside> NigeyS: how heavy is it :-)
[19:20] <Darkside> i wonder if my payload is ligher :P
[19:20] <Darkside> lighter*
[19:20] <NigeyS> a whopping 88grams
[19:20] <Darkside> hmmmmmmmmmm
[19:20] <Darkside> what battery?
[19:21] <NigeyS> lipo, 1000mah
[19:21] <Darkside> won't it freeze?
[19:21] <Darkside> or don't you think it'll get that high
[19:22] <NigeyS> nah, the foils will probably burst around 7-10km
[19:22] <fsphil> I'm betting lower
[19:22] <NigeyS> well
[19:22] <NigeyS> james's half inflated burst at 7km
[19:22] <NigeyS> so its anyones guess
[19:22] <Darkside> hmm ok
[19:22] <WillDuckworth> Keep us posted NigeyS
[19:22] <Darkside> what are you packaging the payloag with? anythig?
[19:23] <fsphil> this sort of experiment is good :)
[19:23] <Darkside> because i think without packaging, my payload will be lighter than yours :P
[19:23] <NigeyS> bubble wrap, and a piece of foil blanket
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[19:23] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/DSC_4087.jpg the one in the middle is the one i brought with me
[19:23] <NigeyS> WillDuckworth, will do :D
[19:24] <Darkside> the board, as it is, is about 15g
[19:24] <Darkside> with GPS that goes up to about 30g
[19:24] <NigeyS> its teeeeeeny tiny!
[19:24] <Darkside> 5x5cm
[19:25] <Darkside> got a picture of yours?
[19:25] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/4p1pe0
[19:25] <NigeyS> not quite as tidy as a pcb hehe
[19:26] <NigeyS> battery and gps combined is just over half the entire payload weight :/
[19:26] <Darkside> want to fly mine? :P
[19:27] <Darkside> only condition is i want it back :P
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[19:27] <fsphil> ah, I use the same plugs as you Darkside
[19:27] <rjharrison> Evening all
[19:27] <Upu> evening
[19:27] <Darkside> actually maybe flying it isn't the best idea :P not with a balloon that might float
[19:27] <fsphil> g'day rjharrison
[19:27] <Upu> it was 2.5w not 5 sorry Rob :)
[19:27] <Upu> just been reading the manual
[19:27] <NigeyS> lol float is always a possibility
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL1> NigeyS
[19:28] <Darkside> yeah... bit scary :P
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL1> how's it going
[19:28] <NigeyS> Darkside, i'll let you know if its going up this weekend, if you want tag along it should be a short train ride from bath
[19:28] <Darkside> total cost of that board is around $60 :P then theres the GPS cost on top of it
[19:28] <NigeyS> hey Dan-K2VOL1 .. all good, you ?
[19:28] <Darkside> NigeyS: yeah its not far
[19:29] <NigeyS> $60 .. not to bad .. think mine works out about £40
[19:32] <Dan-K2VOL1> good, how did picochu work
[19:33] <Darkside> NigeyS: i designed them to be re-usable
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[19:33] <NigeyS> hasnt gone up yet, it's possible for this weekend, just keeping an eye on weather
[19:33] <Darkside> the idea being we get it back :P
[19:33] <Dan-K2VOL1> gotcha
[19:33] <Darkside> but getting a payload back in the UK is a bit harder than getting it back in australia
[19:33] <NigeyS> haha true Darkside .. we have a lot less space here though, things tend to splashdown a bit easier ;)
[19:33] <Darkside> :P
[19:33] <Darkside> yeah...
[19:34] <Darkside> got a prediction for the weekend NigeyS ?
[19:34] <NigeyS> not until i get hold of james
[19:34] <NigeyS> he has a special version for the foil balloons
[19:34] <Darkside> ooh
[19:34] <Darkside> nice
[19:34] <Darkside> how differently do they behave?
[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> heh - they pop rather low
[19:35] <NigeyS> massively, because of the lower altitudes, you get alot more wind etc
[19:35] <Darkside> mmm
[19:36] <NigeyS> seen some very erratic odd paths for a floater prediction
[19:36] <Darkside> any idea what ascent rate you'd get with one?
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[19:36] <NigeyS> well, james has done 50% inflated, and i think it hit 2.1ms
[19:36] <NigeyS> so could possibly get 3.5 .. its a bit of an unknown area
[19:36] <Darkside> heh ok
[19:36] <Darkside> well, the lighter the payload the better
[19:37] <Darkside> what voltage is the LiPo?
[19:37] <NigeyS> yups, and im using 4 balloons
[19:37] <NigeyS> 3.7 but actually charges to 4.17
[19:37] <Darkside> ooooh, they won't all pop at the same time though will they?
[19:37] <NigeyS> hope not! lol
[19:37] <Upu> $$icarus,65,00:00:00,0.000000,0.000000,0,0.00,0.0,0.0,25.0 R*52CF someones playing again :)
[19:37] <Darkside> hmmm, that won't work with my payload
[19:37] <NigeyS> robbies doing circles again? ;)
[19:37] <Darkside> i need >4.3v
[19:37] <NigeyS> ahh
[19:38] <NigeyS> whats the power draw on ures ?
[19:38] <NigeyS> ive got mine at 67ma roughly
[19:38] <Darkside> whaaaa
[19:38] <Darkside> mine is around 100mA lol
[19:38] <NigeyS> lol 67ma btw is a bit high for what i was hoping for!
[19:39] <Darkside> my GPS has an active antenna though, which uses a bit mroe juice
[19:39] <Darkside> also i have a pressure sensor onboard
[19:39] <NigeyS> ah, that'll draw a fair wack
[19:39] <Darkside> very resiliant GPS though
[19:39] <NigeyS> ive got a locosys .. seems a good little unit, cocom limited though
[19:40] <Darkside> ooh
[19:40] <Darkside> yeah, mine is a uBlox 5
[19:40] <NigeyS> uses the mediatek3329 chip
[19:40] <Upu> lol you know you're in Yorkshire when someone is on the local repeater "mobile" "Roger yes my mode of transport is a push bike, repeat push bike"
[19:40] <NigeyS> lmao upu
[19:40] <Darkside> >_>
[19:40] <Darkside> i should keep an ear out on the bristol repeater
[19:40] <NigeyS> Darkside, have you tried the venus gps yet? mattltm has been testing it, has a firmware update to remove cocom
[19:41] <Darkside> NigeyS: nope
[19:41] <Darkside> we've stuck with ublox GPSes
[19:41] <Darkside> either FSA03s which juxta likes, or my D2523 modules
[19:41] <NigeyS> i see, tried and tested i guess
[19:41] <NigeyS> i hear horror stories with those fsa03's and the antennas breaking
[19:41] <Darkside> yeah
[19:42] <Darkside> thats happened to me
[19:42] <NigeyS> eek
[19:42] <Darkside> it's why i don't like them
[19:42] <Darkside> it was shenki's fault though
[19:42] <Darkside> :P
[19:42] <NigeyS> lol
[19:42] <Darkside> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9566 these are teh ones i like
[19:43] <NigeyS> nicey, a bit pricey mind
[19:43] <NigeyS> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8975
[19:43] <NigeyS> thats the locosys im using
[19:44] <NigeyS> they are working on a new firmware to remove cocom apparently
[19:45] <Darkside> mm, the GPS i'm working with here has all that removed
[19:45] <rjharrison> upu did you see my pic of what you're decoding
[19:45] <Darkside> well, one of them does
[19:45] <Upu> yeah
[19:45] <NigeyS> no fair :(
[19:45] <Upu> quite impressive really for 10 miles at ground level
[19:45] <Darkside> the GPS i'll be using will work at 600km altitude, while it's moving at 8KM/s
[19:45] <NigeyS> :o
[19:45] <Darkside> i.e. Low Earth Orbit
[19:45] <rjharrison> the fact the the antenna has no gp and is just a bit of bread board wire stuck in the hole connected to ntx2
[19:46] <rjharrison> gp = ground plane
[19:46] <Upu> the shift is a little out but other than that I can recieve it fine
[19:46] <NigeyS> you just need to aim for LEO now hehe
[19:46] <Darkside> NigeyS: the payload i'm working on will be going into LEO next year :-)
[19:46] <Darkside> i hope to be there for the launch
[19:46] <NigeyS> excellent!!!!
[19:47] <NigeyS> brb
[19:47] <Darkside> well, more to the point: if i'm not thre for the launch i'm going to be mega pissed off :P
[19:47] <fsphil> re: ntx2 -- the one stick in the tree for a month is still working fine :)
[19:47] <fsphil> er
[19:48] <fsphil> fsa03, not ntx2
[19:48] <rjharrison> upu just pulled the wires over to USB ! rv
[19:49] <Upu> yep confirm no RV needed now
[19:49] <Upu> icarus,113,00:00:00,0.000000,0.000000,0,0.00,0.0,0.0,25.3 R*0872
[19:49] <rjharrison> hehe
[19:50] <rjharrison> That's 10mw
[19:50] <Upu> its really not very strong but that fact I can recieve it at all is impressive
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Where did you obtain such a GPS?
[19:50] <Upu> good little radios these
[19:50] <rjharrison> Yep very sensitive
[19:51] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: sparkfun
[19:51] <Darkside> the link i just posted
[19:51] <Darkside> ohhhhhhhhhhh wait
[19:51] <Darkside> you mean the space-rated one
[19:51] <SpeedEvil> the delimited
[19:51] <rjharrison> Interestingly the Yaesu flyer is wrong and doesn't match the guide for sensitivity
[19:51] <rjharrison> ie the manual is more sensitive and correct
[19:51] <Darkside> no fucking idea. someone else got it. apparently they had to go through the US state department to get it approved
[19:52] <Upu> so sensitive I can hear 3 radio stations at once on the 97.970
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: ah
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: how heavy?
[19:52] <fsphil> the FM broadcast part of the 817 is not very selective
[19:52] <Darkside> http://www.novatel.com/oemv-1df/ SpeedEvil
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> neat
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> (even without the delimitation)
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[19:53] <Darkside> yeah, we have one with the limits, and one without
[19:53] <Darkside> we're testing on the one with the limits, as the other one is worth WAY more
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[19:55] <rjharrison> upu turn up the volumen on the receiver
[19:55] <Upu> 1 sec
[19:55] <Upu> do it again
[19:55] <Upu> FM ?
[19:56] <rjharrison> no usb
[19:56] <Upu> got something
[19:56] <rjharrison> could you hear anything
[19:56] <Upu> yes
[19:56] <Upu> can't quite make anything out
[19:56] <rjharrison> one sec
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Copy the firmware from one to the other - profit!
[19:56] <Upu> sounds too low but it doesn't go on long enough for me to retune
[19:57] <rjharrison> did you hear that
[19:57] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: if i knew how to...
[19:57] <Upu> heard something
[19:57] <Upu> just need a bit longer so I can tune it
[19:57] <Darkside> i think some parts of the other one are rad hardenedtoo though
[19:58] <Upu> lemmie turn noise blanker off
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[19:58] <Upu> and again
[19:58] <Darkside> well i think i'm gonna go to sleep now guys
[19:58] <Upu> gotcha
[19:58] <Darkside> my body clock is all fucked up
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt6d5bf3lWM
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> The view from halfway up.
[20:00] <Darkside> cya all tomorrow..
[20:00] <Darkside> i'll probably be on IRC while i'm playing with altium designer..
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> wave!
[20:05] <fsphil> night Darkside!
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[20:15] <WillDuckworth> wondering which GPS modules do not have any of that COCOM restrictions - thoughts?
[20:18] <fsphil> they all do -- what you want is one that implements them correctly
[20:18] <fsphil> some are more restrictive than they need to be
[20:20] <fsphil> anything with a ublox5 chip will be fine
[20:20] <fsphil> there's an oldish list on the wiki: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[20:20] <WillDuckworth> shame, missed Darkside - looks like he's sorting one for that orbit thing
[20:21] <fsphil> yea but orbit is pretty much the only time you need one without any restrictions
[20:21] <fsphil> that or an ICBM :)
[20:22] <WillDuckworth> ;)
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Not strictly true
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: You also need one for extraorbital conditions.
[20:23] <ruku> Whooo 8D
[20:23] Action: SpeedEvil yells 'to infinity and beyond' and then leaps off the sofa.
[20:23] <ruku> I finally got a good circuit for the MPX2100
[20:23] <rjharrison> upu can u pick this up
[20:24] <Upu> 1 sec
[20:24] <rjharrison> 650 sorry
[20:24] <Upu> nothing on 650
[20:25] <rjharrison> ok let me put a bit of wire in
[20:25] <Upu> can hear payload on 075 still
[20:26] <Upu> rgr
[20:26] <Upu> hear that
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[20:26] <rjharrison> paper clip fell out of the sma
[20:26] <Upu> haha
[20:26] <Upu> paper clip antenna ?
[20:26] <rjharrison> yep
[20:26] <Upu> icarus,14,00:00:00,0.000000,0.000000,0,0.00,0.0,0.0,0.0 R*F97E
[20:26] <Upu> works
[20:26] <rjharrison> lol
[20:27] <rjharrison> 441a
[20:27] <fsphil> madness!
[20:27] <rjharrison> in my house on my desk with no windows towards upu
[20:28] <Upu> to do the data modes we need one of these http://www.g4zlp.co.uk/unified/DM_PRO_PLUS_complete.shtml
[20:29] <Upu> if you fancy doing it Rob I'll get one
[20:30] <rjharrison> Upu I have one of those
[20:30] <Upu> oh ok I'll go order one then :)
[20:30] <rjharrison> Upu can you hear again
[20:30] <Upu> yeah faint
[20:30] <Upu> clearer
[20:30] <fsphil> left a bit
[20:30] <fsphil> right a bit :)
[20:30] <rjharrison> vertical vs horizontal
[20:30] <Upu> turned the paper clip my direction ? :)
[20:33] <Upu> ok I bought one Rob I'll let you know when I have it
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[20:33] <rjharrison> Upu any better ?
[20:34] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ <-
[20:34] <Upu> :)
[20:34] <Upu> faint and its drifting in and out but getting some decodes
[20:35] <rjharrison> lol
[20:35] <Upu> make a mini -yagi out of paper clips
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[20:35] <rjharrison> iv just scred a bit of coax on
[20:35] <Upu> no decodes now
[20:35] <rjharrison> I'v just screwed a bit of coax on
[20:36] <Upu> decoded
[20:37] <Upu> its not bad tbh
[20:37] <rjharrison> This really is in the relms of the rediculus
[20:37] <rjharrison> can you fire up your paylaod and I'll try a decode from here
[20:37] <fsphil> I'm half tempted to fire up my own radio and have a listen
[20:38] <rjharrison> lol
[20:38] <rjharrison> don't take the
[20:38] <rjharrison> fsphil we can try a punch on 2m
[20:38] <Upu> can relay :) I'll get this box and then we can try some data
[20:39] <rjharrison> I can bang 50w on 2m or 6m!
[20:39] <fsphil> Might give that a try in a few minutes rjharrison - though I've only got the vertical and not a yagi
[20:39] <rjharrison> 144.600
[20:39] <rjharrison> fm
[20:39] <rjharrison> then usb
[20:39] <fsphil> I can do 50 watts on 2m too though I've yet to try :)
[20:39] <rjharrison> see what we get
[20:39] <fsphil> not even sure what my antenna is rated for
[20:40] <Upu> what frequency ?
[20:40] <rjharrison> I kicked jc's butt with 80W morse on 20m in central london from here
[20:40] <Upu> normal one ?
[20:40] <rjharrison> 144.600
[20:40] <fsphil> oh 200 watts, more than enough :)
[20:40] <Upu> Yeah I have that as M0RJX in my memories
[20:41] <fsphil> you got to london on 2m? nice!
[20:41] <fsphil> that's further than I am
[20:41] <fsphil> though there's the lake district in the way
[20:41] <Upu> getting that Rob ?
[20:42] <rjharrison> 2iovam?
[20:42] <Upu> 2i0vim
[20:42] <fsphil> 2I0VIM
[20:42] <fsphil> a few more minutes before I get the radio on
[20:42] <Upu> well I can hear this one :)
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[20:45] <fsphil> rjharrison, ready
[20:46] <rjharrison> Anything
[20:46] <fsphil> nought
[20:46] <rjharrison> May have to kick off usb
[20:46] <Upu> tbh
[20:46] <Upu> we struggled from Otley Chevin at 200W on this one Rob
[20:46] <rjharrison> ahh
[20:46] <Upu> Not that I was transmitting at 200w...
[20:46] <fsphil> 144.600 USB
[20:47] <rjharrison> Ok lets give this a go 50W 144.600 USB
[20:47] <Upu> think thats overloading my end
[20:47] <rjharrison> usb
[20:47] <Upu> over modulated
[20:47] <Upu> yeah on USB
[20:48] <fsphil> mostly noise, but there's something there - could just be local noise though
[20:48] <fsphil> again
[20:48] <Upu> actually sorry its the RTTY in the back ground thats making it sound odd :)
[20:48] <Upu> yep
[20:48] <fsphil> nothing now
[20:49] <rjharrison> humm
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[20:49] <Upu> there is something in the way
[20:49] <fsphil> yea
[20:49] <rjharrison> fsphil have you got hf
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[20:49] <Upu> we couldn't get you on 40 meters at 200w
[20:49] <fsphil> rjharrison, yep - a bit noisy but it works
[20:49] <fsphil> I can do 6m also
[20:49] <fsphil> but the antenna is a bit low
[20:49] <rjharrison> Ok on a clearer night we'll have a go
[20:49] <rjharrison> it's peing down here
[20:50] <fsphil> it's always noisy here lol
[20:50] <fsphil> actually cleared up here
[20:50] <fsphil> I think this dry spell is heading your way too
[20:51] <GW8RAK> Could do with it here. Still raining
[20:53] <fsphil> http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_nwe.html
[20:53] <fsphil> sunday might be a good day to try again
[20:53] <fsphil> if this is accurate - doubtful :)
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[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[22:45] <rjharrison> Upu yo uin bed
[22:46] <rjharrison> any one got a copy of natiums tracker running on there website?
[22:47] <rjharrison> their
[22:47] <rjharrison> I seem to ne totally illiterate at this time of night
[22:47] <fsphil> only other one I know is upu's
[22:47] <fsphil> and your own
[22:48] <rjharrison> There is a bit of a bug in the admin stuff if you are using a recent version of php
[22:48] <rjharrison> $HTTP_GET_VARS = $_GET these days
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> hey fsphil rjharrison
[22:48] <rjharrison> hey Lunar_Lander
[22:49] <rjharrison> I'm thinking it's bed time
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:49] <rjharrison> Upu is launching this w/e
[22:49] <fsphil> $_GET is the new version, better to use that
[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:49] <rjharrison> yep
[22:49] <fsphil> same thing but new name
[22:49] <rjharrison> yep
[22:49] <fsphil> hiya Lunar_Lander
[22:50] <rjharrison> natrium42, php version must be quite old atm
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> I saw a Kyocera FS-1020D on ebay
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> good?
[22:53] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@69.64.6.70) joined #highaltitude.
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[22:53] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Kevin
[22:53] <Dan-K2VOL> hows it going
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[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD short talk
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[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> I'm good Dan-K2VOL and you?
[23:00] <Dan-K2VOL> pretty good, down at @LVL1Hackerspace
[23:00] <Dan-K2VOL> workin on SpeedBall-2 demo for MakerFaire Detroit
[23:00] <Dan-K2VOL> what are you up to this fine evening
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> I just checked out laser printers
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> I learned that a color laser cartridge set cost between 150 and 300 €
[23:02] <Dan-K2VOL> oh?
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> now I am checking scanners
[23:02] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, it's terrible
[23:02] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> Canon CanoScan LiDE 110
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> 67 euro
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> can do 2400 dpi x 4800 dpi optically
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL what will be different in SpeedBall-2?
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> and will SpeedBall-1 be kept on the ground?
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[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL?
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[23:29] <Dan-K2VOL> hey Lunar_Lander
[23:30] <Dan-K2VOL> sorry am wandering around the hackerspace doing stuff
[23:30] <Dan-K2VOL> SpeedBall-2 is an identical duplicate of SB1, meant as a reserve in case SB-1 fails, sort of like Voyagers 1 & 2
[23:31] <Dan-K2VOL> or Spirit and Opportunity
[23:31] <Dan-K2VOL> it will only be partially assembled for the MakerFaire, and the ballast will be changed to be small metal balls, to comply with the requirements of the museum where we will be flying indoors
[23:32] <Dan-K2VOL> just the internal frame, electronics, a small batt pack, and the ballast bottle strapped to the side of the internal frame
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> so if you fly, you still use SB-1?
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[00:00] --- Tue Jul 19 2011