highaltitude.log.20110716

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[07:20] <Upu> morning
[07:21] <mattltm> Hi Upu :)
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[08:55] <Upu> fsphil
[08:55] <Upu> awake ?
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[09:55] <mattltm> Im not 100% sure if fsphil is ever fully awake. :)
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[10:28] <fsphil> *braaaains*
[10:28] <Darkside> mmmmmmmmmmm
[10:28] <Darkside> i fly to the UK tomorrow!
[10:30] <fsphil> nice! early start or overnight flight?
[10:31] <Darkside> overnight flight
[10:31] <Darkside> i get in at 0635 on the 18th
[10:33] <Upu> tc
[10:34] <fsphil> expect rain :)
[10:34] <Darkside> yay
[10:34] <Upu> yep :)
[10:35] <Darkside> whats a good weather site for UK
[10:35] <Upu> metcheck.com
[10:35] <Upu> lol at the picture on that site on the right
[10:35] <Upu> all rain :)
[10:36] <Upu> Also http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/
[10:36] <Darkside> yaaaaay
[10:38] <fsphil> right, time for a late breakfast
[10:38] <Upu> hye fsphil
[10:38] <fsphil> morning Upu :)
[10:38] <Upu> I amended that common errors page you'd put this code has three problems but I only counted 2 :)
[10:39] <fsphil> rounding (I used ints), padding and the no negative when near the meridian
[10:40] <Upu> is negative related to string processing ?
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[10:40] <fsphil> to be fair, the rounding error is wrong - the example only uses four decimal places which would work fine with an int
[10:41] <fsphil> negative is when the float is between -1 and 0
[10:41] <fsphil> it's still a negative number, but the int == 0 and you can't have -0
[10:41] <Upu> ok i'll fix later
[10:42] <fsphil> also the second int will show a - sign when the value is negative, so you'd end up with something like -5.-3436
[10:42] <fsphil> so many errors in a small example :)
[10:44] <fsphil> hmm.. Dawn should be orbiting Vesta by now, but no news
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[10:46] <jcoxon> Morning
[10:46] <Upu> morning
[10:47] <jcoxon> Hf flight in the US today, California
[10:47] <Upu> yeah I'm not setup to listen to that one
[10:48] <Darkside> what frequency and power?
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[10:49] <jcoxon> 14.079
[10:49] <Darkside> hmmmm
[10:49] <Darkside> depending on the power, mught see that from here
[10:49] <jcoxon> Unsure of power
[10:50] <Darkside> well, probably not with the noise floor at my place
[10:53] <jcoxon> Should be a good flight
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[10:53] <NigelMoby> Meep
[10:54] <jcoxon> Suspect lots of US listeners
[10:56] <NigelMoby> Hey James
[11:00] <fsphil> I'll have a listen but I've the same problem as Darkside
[11:01] <Darkside> hmm conditioons to the US seem good
[11:01] <Darkside> maybe once its up i'll have a listen
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[11:01] <Darkside> got a few hours until i need to go to bed
[11:03] <fsphil> morning jcoxon and NigelMoby
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[11:03] <NigelMoby> Hey Phil
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[11:04] <NigelMoby> I'll get the longwire set up for later
[11:07] <fsphil> I'm being asked to go camping this weekend ... and it's pouring down
[11:12] <Darkside> http://space-balloon.net/live/
[11:12] <Darkside> whats this???
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[11:20] <Darkside> look at the wind...
[11:20] <Darkside> they'd be insane to launch in that kind of weather
[11:20] <fsphil> yikes
[11:20] <Darkside> that isn't the launch you were talking about tho i guess fsphil
[11:21] <Upu> whens that going up ?
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[11:23] <Darkside> supposedly 12UTC
[11:23] <fsphil> Darkside, nope but it looks like they're quite close
[11:23] <Darkside> but they'd have to delay...
[11:23] <fsphil> they seem to be in a large desert
[11:23] <fsphil> no wonder it's windy
[11:23] <Darkside> nevada
[11:23] <Darkside> it shoul be sunrise there soon
[11:24] <Darkside> they don't speak very english
[11:24] <Darkside> :P
[11:25] <Darkside> haha, now off air
[11:25] <fsphil> aaah engrish
[11:25] <fsphil> love it
[11:25] <Darkside> mmm
[11:25] <Darkside> thats some scary wind there... the payload would go horizontal
[11:25] <fsphil> yea, that's gale force
[11:26] <Darkside> if they launch in that they're either brave or insane
[11:29] <Darkside> hmmwhat did @GALAXY_JAPAN just post
[11:29] <Darkside> ahh
[11:29] <Darkside> more encrish
[11:29] <Darkside> engrish*
[11:32] <fsphil> I wonder if the opposite exists,, japanlish .. english people writing funny japanese
[11:33] <fsphil> aah, the horizon is starting to brighten
[11:33] <Darkside> yes, yes i can watch the streaming
[11:33] <fsphil> good luck
[11:33] <fsphil> goof luck even
[11:34] <fsphil> all this effort to launch a phone?
[11:34] <Darkside> yeah
[11:34] <Upu> looks a little over kill, all we do it with is a field and a can of gas
[11:35] <Darkside> but they have full live streaming and such
[11:35] <Upu> is it going to stream from the actual payload ?
[11:35] <Darkside> i believe so
[11:35] <Upu> ok
[11:35] <Upu> is there an ETA on launch ?
[11:36] <Darkside> supposedly at 12 UTC, but i dunno about that
[11:36] <Upu> k
[11:36] <Darkside> looks like the wind will cause delays
[11:36] <Upu> aye
[11:36] <fsphil> wonder if it's as windy where bill is
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[11:52] <Darkside> looks like they're going to delay by an hour
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[12:27] <fsphil> that's an awful lot of people
[12:27] <Upu> looks a little ott to me
[12:28] <Upu> Tweet "in england we do this with a cup of tea and our mum driving"
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[12:31] <fsphil> hehe, JP aerospace
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[12:32] <Upu> how big is that balloon ?
[12:32] <fsphil> four tanks of helium
[12:32] <Darkside> 4kg?
[12:32] <Upu> and why only 30k ?
[12:33] <Upu> should be going higher than that
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[12:33] <Upu> hey fsphil they need some advise on launching in high winds :)
[12:33] <fsphil> "Don't" lol
[12:34] <Upu> I'm so going to spoof this when I launch
[12:34] <fsphil> haha
[12:34] <KJ4ERJ> Greetings from FL. On the 14.079 tracking information, is that USB or LSB for the SBHX balloon?
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[12:34] <Upu> hi there KJ4ERJ
[12:34] <Darkside> hmm, how do you get tweets onto the thing on the right?
[12:35] <fsphil> it's a good question KJ4ERJ
[12:35] <Upu> I would assume, and you never should, its LSB
[12:35] <fsphil> could be the centre frequency though
[12:36] <fsphil> Darkside, using #space_balloon I think
[12:37] <Darkside> ok
[12:37] <Darkside> hmm what comment :P
[12:37] <Darkside> "we do these launches using duct tape and string, works just as well!"
[12:37] <Darkside> maybe?
[12:38] <fsphil> does the 18 character limit apply? (at the bottom of the page)
[12:38] <KJ4ERJ> Thanks. I've sent an e-mail as well, but we'll see if an answer comes in time. It's only 5:30am out there (CA).
[12:38] <Darkside> is that a 23cm beam?
[12:38] <Darkside> or 900MHz
[12:38] <Darkside> looks more like 900MHz
[12:39] <fsphil> looks like they're doing video from the payload?
[12:39] <Upu> yeah
[12:39] <fsphil> google earth -- high tech!
[12:40] <Darkside> ok tweeted
[12:40] <Darkside> will it appear on the list...
[12:40] <Upu> was it 18 chars or less ?
[12:40] <Darkside> more
[12:40] <Darkside> but lots of them are >18 chars
[12:40] <Upu> no then :)
[12:40] <Darkside> i'm looking at the stream on the right
[12:40] <Upu> m e too
[12:41] <fsphil> yea, most of them are bigger
[12:41] <Darkside> bah, it didnt post
[12:41] <Upu> ok afk a few
[12:41] <Darkside> i posted "We do this with just as well with duct tape and string! projecthorus.org #space_balloon"
[12:42] <fsphil> A lot of the tweets seem to have this at the end: "( #space_balloon live at http://bit.ly/sbplive)"
[12:42] <fsphil> doubt you'd need the entire thing?
[12:42] <Darkside> nfi
[12:42] <Darkside> oh well
[12:42] <Darkside> i'm betting the filter tweets
[12:42] <Darkside> they*
[12:43] <fsphil> "I want to spend the rest of my life with you" got through lol
[12:45] <fsphil> the japanese sure like their masks
[12:48] <Darkside> so they're filling it underneath a sheet of some kind
[12:49] <fsphil> that's a big dish too
[12:49] <Darkside> that dish is theyr internet backhaul afaik
[12:51] <Darkside> jeez, talk about a launch team
[12:51] <fsphil> I really hope this payload is more than just a phone
[12:51] <Darkside> its the phone, another telemetry payload, and more stuff
[12:51] <Darkside> live video downlink i think
[12:52] <Darkside> im not sure what the telemetry payload is, theres stuff about it on the page somewhere
[12:53] <Darkside> so you can see what appears to be a 900MHZ antenna for video
[12:53] <fsphil> hehe, someone's spamming the feed
[12:53] <Darkside> also a 900MHZ patch antenna, probably for short rane stuff
[12:53] <Darkside> rane*
[12:54] <Darkside> they have some sort of uplink to the phone
[12:54] <Darkside> not sure what
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[12:55] <Darkside> also their payload has wings
[12:55] <Darkside> lol
[12:55] <Darkside> or it looks like it
[12:56] <fsphil> "Japan probably around 10:15 hours, the balloon is launched! Passengers can get 1,500 people waiting already.  Are you ready for flight you sure?"
[12:56] <Darkside> ey
[12:56] <Darkside> thate antenna
[12:56] <Darkside> some kind of dish, looked like 2.4GHz?
[12:56] <Darkside> maybe not?
[12:58] <fsphil> missed it
[12:59] <Darkside> press meny and go to the project page
[12:59] <Darkside> theres pictures there
[13:00] <Darkside> and a video
[13:01] <Darkside> they appear to have a VHF telemetry system
[13:01] <Darkside> going from the antena
[13:02] <Darkside> theres a VHF array
[13:03] <fsphil> this could use some benny hill music
[13:05] <Darkside> oh ffs, my internet is a pile of shit
[13:05] <fsphil> bad translation of last update: "Yesterday morning thunderstorm from a lightning strike by  Explanation of launch delays, the work had been suspended temporarily. In addition, our work is delayed by high winds can get a little balloon."
[13:05] <Darkside> looooool
[13:05] <Darkside> for FUCKS SAKES
[13:05] <Darkside> im rebooting my modem, this is bullshit
[13:06] <fsphil> reminds me, new openwrt out - hopefully cure my random reboots
[13:08] <fsphil> all this and I still won't buy a samsung phone
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[13:09] <RocketBoy> so the discussion on this in GPSL was that the uplink to the phone was not a mobile phone connection?
[13:10] <Darkside> i dunno... that big dish has some rather large dipoles on it
[13:11] <Darkside> it might be a 900MHz dish, acting as a base station?
[13:11] <Darkside> dunno...
[13:12] <RocketBoy> so I don't understand the point of it?
[13:12] <Darkside> the phone is connected by USB, maybe they use that to send data?
[13:12] <Darkside> as in, anothe receiver, on some other frequency, sending serial data to the phone?
[13:13] <Darkside> thats a big balloon...
[13:15] <RocketBoy> so is it a samsung phone?
[13:15] <Darkside> yes
[13:15] <Darkside> a Galaxy S II
[13:15] <Darkside> very nice phone :-)
[13:15] Action: Darkside has one
[13:16] <Darkside> ook whats that on the back
[13:16] <RocketBoy> but its not being used in a standard way
[13:17] <Darkside> i bet thats the power supply connections
[13:18] <RocketBoy> if that phone is going on the outside it'll be heated
[13:18] <Darkside> i dunno
[13:18] <Darkside> there was mention elsewhere of testing it to -50 deg C
[13:19] <RocketBoy> it'll need it typical lcd displays pack up about 0C
[13:20] <Darkside> isnt it AMOLED?
[13:21] <Darkside> yeah
[13:21] <Darkside> it is
[13:24] <Darkside> balloon is full
[13:24] <fsphil> they're 1.2km ASL already
[13:25] <Darkside> lol
[13:25] <fsphil> woo, live video
[13:25] <Darkside> live video
[13:25] <Darkside> cool
[13:25] <fsphil> analogue
[13:25] <Darkside> yep
[13:25] <Darkside> i bet its 900MHz or something
[13:25] <Darkside> going from the dish sizes
[13:25] <Darkside> i mean, the yagi size
[13:26] <fsphil> duct tape
[13:26] <Darkside> always required
[13:26] <fsphil> this really is just a normal flight .. just more people :)
[13:26] <Darkside> interesting payload design
[13:26] <Darkside> i guess the blue thing are kind of stablizers?
[13:26] <fsphil> three of them .. likely
[13:26] <fsphil> maybe for descent
[13:27] <Darkside> mmm
[13:27] <RocketBoy> anti spin device
[13:27] <Darkside> oh they'll be using the camera on the front?
[13:28] <fsphil> that video noise looks more like 2.4ghz
[13:29] <Darkside> hmm mebe
[13:29] <Darkside> i wonder what TX power...
[13:29] <Darkside> lol shit on the lens
[13:29] <fsphil> that looks heavy
[13:29] <Darkside> or is it just out of focus
[13:29] <Darkside> fsphil: it's a big balloon
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[13:29] <Darkside> any guesses on what size?
[13:29] <fsphil> it's stupid big
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[13:30] <Darkside> yeah...
[13:30] <fsphil> no sign of a parachute so far?
[13:30] <Darkside> 4kg?
[13:30] <Darkside> maybe the parachute gets ejected from the payload?
[13:30] <fsphil> that would be a reasonable guess
[13:30] <RocketBoy> so the text messages are pre-loaded or up-linked?
[13:30] <Darkside> no wait, can't see anything
[13:31] <RocketBoy> its a similar rig used by JPA on the chair
[13:31] <fsphil> using people as weights -- they really do have too many people :)
[13:31] <Darkside> RocketBoy: some are pre-loaded
[13:31] <fsphil> this is a JPA launch too RocketBoy
[13:31] <Darkside> and some are uplinked
[13:32] <RocketBoy> possibly the up-linked ones will be on the ascent - while still in mobile contact
[13:32] <Upu> bloody count down .. is it ready .. yes .. launch then
[13:33] <Darkside> lol
[13:33] <Darkside> oook
[13:33] <Darkside> is that a VHF antenna i see?
[13:33] <Upu> permission to lol if the cord snaps in the wind
[13:33] <fsphil> granted
[13:34] <fsphil> hope there's no expensive cars nearby
[13:34] <Darkside> hahahahahhahaa
[13:34] <Darkside> oh yes
[13:34] <Darkside> that was hillarious
[13:34] <griffonbot> @AnthonyStirk: good luck from all at #ukhas ( #space_balloon live at http://bit.ly/sbplive now 1193m) [http://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/92225605910790144]
[13:34] <Upu> see if that goes on :)
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[13:35] <fsphil> I think there's a 30 second delay
[13:35] <Upu> lol at th emusic
[13:36] <Darkside> i have the sound turned off lol
[13:36] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[13:36] <Upu> hi mattltm
[13:36] <fsphil> the ear muffs, they do nothing
[13:36] <fsphil> morning mattltm
[13:36] <Darkside> so is that a zipper?
[13:36] <Darkside> its like they are unzipping the cover?
[13:36] <Upu> how bloody big is that payload
[13:37] Action: mattltm been up and working since 4am :(
[13:37] <Darkside> here we go...
[13:37] <Darkside> jeez
[13:37] <Darkside> lool
[13:37] <fsphil> that was an interesting way of doing it
[13:37] <Darkside> yah
[13:37] <Darkside> seem like a bit of force on the payload...
[13:38] <Darkside> cool video, shame about the phone in the middle of it
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[13:41] <mattltm> what are you watching??
[13:42] <russss> http://space-balloon.net/
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[13:43] <RocketBoy> no shortage of funding for that project
[13:43] <mattltm> Ta :)
[13:43] <fsphil> almost a 3km .. launch at 1km, so it's travelled 2km so far. not the fastest ascent :)
[13:45] <Upu> big payload
[13:46] <NigeyS> not sure how much of that music i can take!
[13:46] <Darkside> i just have it on mute
[13:46] <Darkside> lol
[13:46] Action: fsphil finally hit mute
[13:46] <NigeyS> lol snap, be ok if it was in english!
[13:46] <fsphil> nah, it would be ok if it was good music
[13:47] <fsphil> english wouldn't improve it :)
[13:47] <NigeyS> lol
[13:47] <fsphil> video's pretty steady so far
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[13:53] <NigeyS> sat link i assume ?
[13:54] <Darkside> nope
[13:54] <Darkside> there appear to be yagis on the ground for video
[13:54] <NigeyS> ohh
[13:54] <Darkside> though there is a sat link from the launch site
[13:54] <Darkside> i'm betting its a 900MHZ video downlink
[13:57] <NigeyS> keep an eye out for a ukhas tweet ;)
[13:58] <Darkside> man, HUGE delays on the feed
[13:58] <Darkside> galaxy_japan just reported 6000m lol
[13:58] <NigeyS> yup :/
[13:59] <Darkside> hehe -40 deg
[13:59] <Darkside> i'm glad i got the galaxy S II :P
[14:00] <Darkside> i like its operational temperture range
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[14:00] <Darkside> lol video is going to shit
[14:01] <Darkside> i hope they did the link budget calculations
[14:01] <Darkside> because we did, and it wasn't nice
[14:03] <mattltm> Lol. nice tweet NigeyS :)
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> video at a distace is stupid
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> Massive dishes or powers
[14:04] <Darkside> we worked out we could get about a 40km path distance with 1 watt TX, and a 20dBi RX ant
[14:04] <Darkside> but that means you need to be in a pretty small footprint below the balloon
[14:04] <Darkside> and even with 1 watt TX, thats a LOT of heat you need to dissipate, and i'm not sure how heat dissipation works up there where there's no air
[14:05] <NigeyS> mattltm, did it show up on video yet ?
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Just fine
[14:05] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: oh?
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> Darkside: Well - convection is less good
[14:05] <Darkside> we were considering doing some heat transfer experiments
[14:05] <mattltm> Nope :(
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> But until you get well, well below a pascal, heat conduction is basically unaffected
[14:05] <Darkside> hmm, i'd better get to bed
[14:06] <Darkside> need to be up earlyish tomorrow for my flight!!
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> This is why thermoses are hard. :/
[14:06] <Darkside> i'm coming to visit all you UKanians :P
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> Where you going?
[14:06] <Darkside> bath
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> I see.
[14:06] <Darkside> i hope to attend at least one launch while i'm in the UK :-)
[14:11] <gartt> Is there a website for this channel?
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> Not as such.
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> See the website i the topic though
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> that's pretty close
[14:12] <gartt> Sorry, my client wrapped the line in the topic... should have been pretty obvious
[14:12] <fsphil> how certain is the 15th of October date for the conference?
[14:13] <russss> so much for the live video, heh
[14:13] <fsphil> I guess they didn't do their sums
[14:14] <fsphil> the camera isn't handling the conditions too wel either
[14:14] <fsphil> +l
[14:14] <russss> it's quite interesting, you can see the periodic signal fading
[14:14] <russss> which actually looks to perhaps come from the payload tilting
[14:14] <Darkside> i didn't see any circularly polarised antennas on the ground
[14:15] <Darkside> looked like a yagi to me
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[14:15] <fsphil> yea it's a very similar fading to the 434mhz + vertical
[14:15] <rjharrison> wet wet wet
[14:15] <fsphil> you feel it in your fingers?
[14:15] <rjharrison> oh is there something in the air
[14:15] <rjharrison> lol
[14:16] <fsphil> we're watching this rjharrison: http://space-balloon.net/live/
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[14:17] <rjharrison> Cool how are they streaming that
[14:18] <fsphil> 900mhz or 2.4ghz video, not sure which
[14:19] <Darkside> i doubt its 2.4GHz
[14:19] <fsphil> yea
[14:19] <fsphil> starting to think that too
[14:19] <Darkside> pretty sure its 900MHz, from the images of the yagis on the ground
[14:19] <Darkside> and that patch antenna
[14:19] <fsphil> 2.4ghz would be fading out a lot more as the payload moved I bet
[14:20] <fsphil> the little stabiliser wings seem to be doing a good job
[14:20] <rjharrison> Cool
[14:20] <Darkside> theres a graphic somewhere else on that pabge, showing the different antennas
[14:20] <rjharrison> Anyone run a pred on this
[14:20] <Darkside> and it has a yagi for video, a dish for uplink data, and a big VHF yagi for telemetry
[14:21] <fsphil> -60c.. yikes
[14:22] <Darkside> normal
[14:22] <Darkside> the DS18B20s dont seem to measure that low :P
[14:22] <rjharrison> Yep you need the DS18S20+
[14:22] <Upu> bet that space mans head is concealing a charging cable
[14:23] <rjharrison> or the DS1821+S but they can't be networked
[14:23] <Darkside> Upu: it is
[14:23] <Darkside> and data i think
[14:23] <NigeyS> isnt the s2 charge port on the top like the s1 ?
[14:23] <Darkside> nope
[14:23] <Darkside> its on the bottom
[14:23] <NigeyS> oo
[14:23] <Darkside> also, theres something on the back of the phone, a white thing
[14:23] <fsphil> surprised apple didn't sue to prevent this launch
[14:23] <NigeyS> lol
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[14:24] <Darkside> i think the white block on the back of the phone is power, possibly data, and maybe heating
[14:24] <fsphil> the screen is pretty responsive - don't they normally start to slow down when it's cold?
[14:26] <Darkside> fsphil: its AMOLED
[14:26] <Darkside> not LCD
[14:26] <Darkside> very different tech
[14:27] <fsphil> neat
[14:42] <russss> video's actually doing pretty well
[14:42] <daveake> upu - charging cable - you betcha!
[14:42] <russss> I'd like to know what tech it is
[14:45] <Laurenceb_> what is the video frequency?
[14:47] <Darkside> we think its 900MHz
[14:52] <russss> their payload is pretty stable
[14:54] <daveake> yep
[14:54] <daveake> Rather short line to the balloon
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[15:01] <Laurenceb_> where is this? korea?
[15:01] <NigeyS> california
[15:02] <Laurenceb_> ah
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> all the comments seem to be in korean or chinese
[15:03] <NigeyS> yeah, think samsung are korean ?
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> guess all the samsung works are watching XD
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> yes
[15:03] <daveake> Thought it said the Nevada desert
[15:04] <NigeyS> i was close :p
[15:05] <fsphil> same continent :p
[15:05] <fsphil> ooh some lightning over edinburgh atm
[15:05] <NigeyS> :o
[15:06] <fsphil> and getting dark here too :)
[15:07] <fsphil> video's struggling
[15:08] <fsphil> they must have a cut-down
[15:08] <fsphil> too late lol
[15:08] <NigeyS> yup must be cutting down at 30k
[15:08] <NigeyS> burst...lol
[15:08] <daveake> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[15:08] <fsphil> that was a dramatic burst
[15:09] <NigeyS> time to get dizzy
[15:10] <daveake> "I'm spinning around .... Move out of my way"
[15:10] <NigeyS> lol
[15:12] <daveake> I sent a "Greetings from UKHAS" message via twitter, then it went pop ;-)
[15:13] <NigeyS> wouldnt have shown, has to be under 18 characters including spaces :(
[15:14] <daveake> Damn!
[15:14] <russss> I was surprised how well that worked
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[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:15] <fsphil> needs a better antenna I think, something with fewer nulls
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[15:17] <fsphil> boo, the altitude meter didn't change to a parachute
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[15:19] <daveake> :-)
[15:19] <Lunar_Lander> who of you has a FT-790R?
[15:19] <daveake> I'll do a special "parachute entangled by the balloon remains" icon for spacenear for my next launch :)
[15:19] <daveake> Not me - AR8000
[15:19] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:20] <fsphil> I sorta do
[15:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[15:20] <fsphil> lol daveake
[15:20] <Lunar_Lander> I have mine here now
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> and the rig by Upu
[15:21] <Lunar_Lander> what do I have to dial to hear the 434.075 MHz channel?
[15:21] <fsphil> the dial is missing the first two digits.. the 43
[15:21] <fsphil> so turn to 4.075.000
[15:22] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[15:22] <fsphil> it's quicker to tune in FM mode
[15:22] <fsphil> then switch to USB
[15:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:23] <Lunar_Lander> I can hear it
[15:26] <fsphil> video suddenly not looking so good
[15:27] <Lunar_Lander> it works!
[15:27] <Lunar_Lander> thanks fsphil!
[15:27] <fsphil> must be cloud
[15:28] <fsphil> loss of signal
[15:29] <fsphil> He sounds like Vir from babylon 5
[15:29] <daveake> LOL
[15:31] <NigeyS> Royal Navy divers are tracking a live World War II mine which has been dredged up off the Essex coast.
[15:31] <NigeyS> uhoh
[15:32] <BrainDamage> they should defuse it by ramming it with WWII relic ship
[15:32] <NigeyS> lol
[15:33] <NigeyS> what time is bills launch ?
[15:34] <Upu> question guys on this schematic : http://www.deryoung.com/arduino/images/circuit_Duemilanove.gif
[15:34] <Upu> from the USB chip on the left, pin 3 goes to a resistor labled R2 100_NM
[15:34] <Upu> I assume thats 100 ohms
[15:34] <Upu> ?
[15:35] <Upu> (Just to the right of Arduino 2009)
[15:35] <daveake> just a sec ...
[15:35] <Upu> i should have put the programming circuit on the flight computer board...
[15:36] <daveake> 100 seems a bit on the low side. Let me check ...
[15:39] <Upu> actually just looked at the board
[15:39] <Upu> and there isn't a resistor in that position
[15:39] <NigeyS> weird
[15:41] <Upu> NM italian for not needed ? :)
[15:41] <daveake> http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1223532015
[15:42] <daveake> Measured on mine and no there's no R in that position
[15:42] <BrainDamage> not needed in italian is non necessario
[15:43] <Lunar_Lander> hello GW8RAK
[15:43] <Upu> ah ok
[15:43] <Upu> thanks for link
[15:44] <fsphil> man this new version of thunderbird is really unstable
[15:44] <daveake> Oh. I let it install earlier ...
[15:45] <fsphil> Bill's launch is in just over an hour (or two considering it's Bill)
[15:45] <daveake> Where from?
[15:46] <fsphil> 17:00 UTC
[15:46] <fsphil> Doesn't actually say, but the flight is for the "Santa Barbara Natural History Museum"
[15:47] <daveake> No point me getting my aerial out then :)
[15:47] <fsphil> it's got a 20m beacon, it's possible it might be picked up here if conditions are right
[15:47] <fsphil> though I don't think it's been done yet
[15:47] <daveake> You're a bit closer, and you have a better setup, so if anyone can ... :)
[15:48] <fsphil> oh I live in HF noise central, so I've not much chance
[15:48] <fsphil> and it could skip over me too - -HF is weird like that
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[15:49] <daveake> I see
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[15:54] <fsphil> it's on the spacenear.us tracker
[15:57] <Upu> sorry about Ava
[15:57] <Upu> removed
[15:57] <daveake> Impressive rise and fall there ;-)
[16:11] <NigeyS> hmm who want to make me a robotic / mechanical arm type thingy for my payload box? :p
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> NASA
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> They've got some spare
[16:11] <NigeyS> lol i dont want 1 that clever!
[16:12] <NigeyS> just need something to shove a petri dish out the side of the box @ xxkm
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> Servo + slot
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[16:13] <NigeyS> sounds about right
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[16:18] <hibby> NigeyS: lego
[16:18] <hibby> :p
[16:18] <NigeyS> lol hibby!
[16:19] <NigeyS> ideas for sterilising a payload box before launch ?
[16:20] <hibby> ammonia?
[16:21] <BrainDamage> sterlizing? why so?
[16:21] <NigeyS> so a microbe sample can be collected
[16:21] <BrainDamage> uv light
[16:21] <hibby> also having a separate box for your experiment might make life easier
[16:22] <NigeyS> yeah i think a 2nd box might be better
[16:22] <NigeyS> uv light would work well BrainDamage ?
[16:23] <BrainDamage> it's standard system to sterilyze
[16:23] <BrainDamage> x intensity for y time
[16:23] <BrainDamage> there's a min wavelenght
[16:23] <NigeyS> ohh, oki, i'll look that up and see what's what
[16:23] <BrainDamage> you can buy sterilyzation uv lamps
[16:24] <BrainDamage> there's some chink stuff like toothbrush sterilization systems which are cheap, BUT, the lamp might not be a real one
[16:25] <hibby> welcome to #ukhas: We're equal opportunity name callers ;)
[16:26] <NigeyS> BrainDamage, tnx for the info !:D
[16:26] <BrainDamage> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/uv-toothbrush-sanitizer-sterilizer-cleaner-2-aaa-34720
[16:26] <BrainDamage> the guy in the feedback claims it's really 232 nm, and he wiped eproms with it
[16:27] <NigeyS> :o
[16:27] <BrainDamage> you can probably find just the lamp off ebay
[16:27] <chris_99> also http://www.maplin.co.uk/ultraviolet-mini-lantern-2040
[16:28] <BrainDamage> the freq is important
[16:28] <BrainDamage> low freq uv won't kill stuff
[16:29] <BrainDamage> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Ultraviolet_germicidal_irradiation
[16:30] <BrainDamage> oh btw, if it wasn't obvious, do not stare at the lap with naked eye
[16:30] <BrainDamage> lamp*
[16:31] <NigeyS> hehe i know that, i like my eyesight
[16:31] <BrainDamage> it's also cancer inducing for the skin, but you'd be getting a small dose
[16:32] <BrainDamage> or just seal the thing before turning on the light, safest
[16:33] <NigeyS> http://www.coleparmer.co.uk/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=9750515&pfx=
[16:33] <NigeyS> bit expensive mind
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[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi natrium42
[16:39] <natrium42> hello peeps & creeps
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> sssssssssssssssssss
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> oh man
[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> I got the balloon, I want to buy Sims II, I want to buy Minecraft
[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> ohh the money
[16:42] <fsphil> I want a pony
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> also, the hazard is that I got immersed in playing Sims or MC
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> I remember getting Sims 1
[16:42] <fsphil> but I don't have a field so it would have to live in the back with the dog .. not sure he'd like that
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:42] <Lunar_Lander> my grandma bought me Sims 1 when I was on holiday at her house
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> and we payed our parents a visit
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> and there I played the game for 5 hours in a row
[16:43] <BrainDamage> NigeyS: http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=germicidal+uv&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> that was a record for me back then
[16:43] <BrainDamage> ebay has plenty results
[16:43] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[16:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:46] <Lunar_Lander> on BFBS they asked: "Which Shakespeare play has the most lines?"
[16:46] <BrainDamage> NigeyS: this looks perfect for your needs http://cgi.ebay.com/UV-Germicidal-Ozonation-254nm-100x30x100-Lamp-Bulb-Kit-/350468720009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5199904589
[16:46] <Lunar_Lander> the guy says "I thought first it is King Lear, but I would say it is Hamlet"
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> and the female host:"Well, it's King Lear; no kidding, it's Hamlet"
[16:47] <BrainDamage> you'll get lamp and inverter
[16:47] <NigeyS> BrainDamage, perfect, thanks!!
[16:48] <Upu> NigelMoby what you want to steralise something for ?
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[16:49] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[16:49] <NigeyS> Upu, to collect some samples from >20km
[16:49] <Upu> hi lunar
[16:49] <Upu> ask your local vet to shove in the autoclave ?
[16:49] <Lunar_Lander> Upu my FT-790R works
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[16:50] <Upu> oh cool :) Where are you located ?
[16:50] <BrainDamage> autoclave sterilyzes stuff trough high pressure & temp, I tought he wanted to sterylize everything?
[16:50] <BrainDamage> including foam, etc
[16:50] <Upu> yeah that won't work :)
[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> LOOOOL
[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> "Warning: Kent Countryside is too dangerous to say it quickly"
[16:52] <NigeyS> yeah the whole lot will have to be sterilised
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, in NW germany
[16:52] <Upu> ok you should be able to recieve some of the higher flights
[16:52] <NigeyS> i was thinking more of a gas but nm ..
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> Upu yeah
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> I only have to assemble my Yagi
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS they tried to sterilize Mariner 2 and the first Ranger probes that way
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> flooding the payload fairing with ethylene oxide
[16:54] <NigeyS> oo nasty stuff
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> do you still want to try that cryosampler?
[16:56] <NigeyS> possibly, if i cant come up with an alternative
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> I looked into it
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> the idea behind it is indeed, that the cryogen is below the freezing point of air
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> and for a chemical experiment, you freeze the air in there
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> and for a biological one, you have filters in there
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[17:01] <BrainDamage> freezing air isn't simple, nitrogen freezes at -195°C
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:01] <BrainDamage> at standard pressure
[17:02] <NigeyS> yeah not simple at all, needs some more thought
[17:02] <Lunar_Lander> because of that, cryosamplers usually run on LHe or LNe
[17:02] <BrainDamage> in the upper layers, pressure is even lower
[17:02] <BrainDamage> so you'll need even lower temp
[17:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:02] <Lunar_Lander> as I said
[17:02] <Lunar_Lander> because of that, cryosamplers usually run on LHe or LNe
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> BFBS reports: Sea mine defusing postponed due to weather
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[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> and what are we doing now?
[17:43] <Lunar_Lander> is GW8RAK there?
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[17:44] Nick change: me -> Guest18939
[17:44] <fsphil> Bill is doing CW on the frequency the balloon will be working on.. and says he's being heard in the UK
[17:44] <fsphil> although he's using 100 watts
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:45] <Lunar_Lander> is he really launching from CA this time?
[17:45] <fsphil> yep
[17:46] <hibby> balloon will be in a better position for skip than him, though
[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[17:47] <Blackover> Hello!
[17:48] <Blackover> I'm loocking for launch, there was Geiger counter
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[17:50] <Lunar_Lander> Blackover ?
[17:51] <Blackover> Someone placed Radiation Detector in payload and loged data
[17:51] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:51] <Blackover> Can't find results
[17:53] <Blackover> There were 2 launches, at least
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.apexhab.org/apex-ii/launch-1-data/
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> the IRD count graph
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[17:55] <Blackover> And what detector was used?
[17:55] <Blackover> I mean moedl
[17:56] <Blackover> *model
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman?
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> Blackover, jonsowman should know
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[17:57] <Blackover> He is afk&\
[17:57] <Blackover> ?
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah probably
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> is priyesh there?
[18:01] <Matt_soton> still wanting to know about hte irds?
[18:01] <Blackover> =CK
[18:01] <Blackover> yes
[18:02] <Matt_soton> somewhere thers data from the second launch
[18:02] <Matt_soton> i shall find it
[18:03] <Blackover> this one http://www.apexhab.org/apex-ii/launch-2-data/ ?
[18:03] <Matt_soton> yea, but somewher is a excel sheet
[18:04] <Matt_soton> although if u just wanted to see a graph thats fine
[18:04] <Matt_soton> both sensors worked second time
[18:04] <Matt_soton> but they still didnt work above a certian pressure/alt/temp
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> 22 km IIRC
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> I had discussed with andrew and priyesh what could have been the cause
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> suggested a pressure test of the units
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[18:07] <Matt_soton> they both died at the same point on both launches too
[18:07] <Matt_soton> so its unlikey to be temperature of psu related
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:08] <Matt_soton> u have to remebmer that one sensor is sampled then the other, so when one apperas to die before the other tht may not be the case
[18:08] <Matt_soton> also the count is for 30secs so it could happen half way through a count
[18:09] <Matt_soton> they were made my centronics btw
[18:09] <Matt_soton> *by
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:12] <Matt_soton> the actual launch data is https://github.com/ApexHAB/apex-ii/commits/master/Launch2/processed_data.xls
[18:12] <Matt_soton> the irds being the two unlabled coloumns
[18:13] <Matt_soton> and the first https://github.com/ApexHAB/apex-ii/blob/master/Launch1/data.csv
[18:14] <Blackover> Probably, when counts rised over 250 the registator input became overdriven (to many impules going in). I think so.
[18:14] <Matt_soton> well its 250 over 30 secs
[18:14] <Matt_soton> (perhaps 15)
[18:14] <Matt_soton> either way the actual frequency wasnt too high
[18:15] <Matt_soton> but if two pulses arrived at the same time within a certian time frame it would only be counted as one
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> and as Matt said
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> the counters failed at the same altitudes on both ascents
[18:17] <Matt_soton> it was within a few 100m i think
[18:18] <Blackover> And how counts was loged? By MCU ADC?
[18:18] <Matt_soton> a mcu counting pulses
[18:18] <Matt_soton> the output from the tube went to a comparitor then a monostable
[18:18] <Matt_soton> i dont know the pulse length from the monostabl
[18:18] <Matt_soton> e
[18:19] <rjharrison> IS SBHX due up today?
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> hi rjharrison
[18:19] <rjharrison> hi Lunar_Lander
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> rjharrison my FT-790R is up and functional
[18:26] <fsphil> slight coordinate problem with the US launch
[18:26] <fsphil> oh that's icarus
[18:26] <fsphil> US balloon has launched, not showing up on the tracker yet
[18:27] <fsphil> ah it's there now
[18:30] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: back.. was afk before
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[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> ah priyesh
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[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> Blackover had a question about your geiger counters
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> but maybe Matt has answered it completely already
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[18:33] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: ah.. no worries. glad it's sorted
[18:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[18:33] <Blackover> about model of detector and registration
[18:35] <Blackover> What GeigerMüller tube u used?
[18:35] <fsphil> ot question -- has anyone heard of a cable shedding it's insulation? I've got some here that looks like it's been eaten by a mouse, but it's been in a sealed box
[18:35] <Blackover> and how impules was recordd
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[18:36] <Matt_soton> i have a scope reading of the output from the tube
[18:36] <Matt_soton> a pulse lasts about 2.5usec
[18:36] <Matt_soton> depends on the thresohld of the comparitor tho
[18:36] <Blackover> 2.5usec = 2.5 microseconds?
[18:36] <priyesh> Blackover: http://www.apexhab.org/apex-ii/payload-hardware/
[18:37] <priyesh> look under the IRD heading
[18:37] <KJ4ERJ> SBHX is apparently flying, but not as WB9KMO-11 on APRS.
[18:37] <NSSWB9SBD> ng0x-1
[18:37] <KJ4ERJ> APRS shows NG0X-1 and a flying car as WB9KMO (12,821ft)
[18:37] <NSSWB9SBD> on aprs
[18:37] <Matt_soton> yea microsecs
[18:37] <priyesh> Blackover: this is the schematic for the IRD daughterboard: https://github.com/ApexHAB/apex-ii/raw/master/PCB/ird-sch.png
[18:38] <KJ4ERJ> Does anyone know exactly where SBHX's RTTY beacon is? They said 14.079, but is that center freq? Mark/space or USB/LSB dial and what offset?
[18:39] <fsphil> they never do make that clear KJ4ERJ
[18:39] <fsphil> normally it's the dial frequency
[18:39] <NSSWB9SBD> USB and the tones should be centered at 1600 but the RTTY contest is killing it here in the states.
[18:40] <fsphil> lots of rtty here also
[18:40] <fsphil> just hooking it up to the computer now, see if there's any trace of it. doubtful :)
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[18:40] <KJ4ERJ> Then I have something to learn about RTTY and fldigi. I see lots of stuff on the waterfall, but none of it decodes to readable letters, just gobblety gook.
[18:40] <Blackover> priyesh "a pulse lasts about 2.5usec" after shceme or after tube?
[18:41] <NigeyS> way to much rtty, should see my waterfall :(
[18:42] <KJ4ERJ> Ah, the waterfall stuff is RTTY-45. That decodes. The RTTY-HAB-50 is the auto-configure, apparently.
[18:42] <NSSWB9SBD> It looks like I'm tuned to the PSK freq!
[18:43] <Matt_soton> Blackover: that was recorded on the output of the tube
[18:43] <NigeyS> lol
[18:44] <Blackover> And model of tube?
[18:45] <Blackover> sights on it
[18:46] <fsphil> what's the current dominoex offset frequency atm, anyone know?
[18:48] <Lunar_Lander> Blackover do you have access to military geiger tubes?
[18:49] <Blackover> I already have two soviet tube
[18:49] <Blackover> want to compare
[18:49] <Matt_soton> the tubes were Zp1200
[18:49] <Matt_soton> just found hte email
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[18:52] <rjharrison> wasn't the lost boys set in santa barbara?
[18:53] <fsphil> *googles* Santa Cruz
[18:53] <fsphil> good movie
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> whoa is Icarus flying too?
[18:54] <rjharrison> Yep showing my age :-)
[18:54] <rjharrison> it was refresh
[18:54] <fsphil> someone's running a test I think
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:55] <rjharrison> It was my quick flight around the equator
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> APRS working
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil I see the flying car
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:55] <fsphil> lol
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> so what is on the flight?
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> comms experiments?
[18:57] <fsphil> gopro camera, a few other things
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:57] <fsphil> someone listed it on batc.tv, but the chat window is stupid and I can't copy and paste from it
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh so I saw that you will make Apex Alpha now?
[18:58] <fsphil> "GoPro....Canon.....2m FM DominoEX.... 20 meter DominoEX .... ATV on 2.4 GHZ....and WB9KMO APRS (1 watt) all in a single box....NG0X-1 is in a seperate payload"
[18:58] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: yes.. that's correct :)
[18:58] <fsphil> FM DominoEX? that's a bit ... silly
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> what is DominoEX?
[18:58] <fsphil> it's a datamode, like RTTY but with more tones
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh so it will be like the smallest payload possible?
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:59] <rjharrison> I hope they like mountain climbing given the terrain
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:59] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: well that was the plan and I hope to still do that. hopefully we don't end up putting extra things on there :P
[19:00] <priyesh> we might even break a record - who knows?
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yes!
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> and then comes Apex II.3?
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> and after that III?
[19:01] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: apex ii.3 is going on at the same time. it will most likely be launched around the same time that alpha.1 launches
[19:01] <priyesh> then alpha may launch 1 more time. then development of apex iii will start
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> what will III have that II didn't have?
[19:02] <priyesh> apex alpha marks the move to arduino/avr
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:02] <priyesh> well III will be arduino or avr based unlike II
[19:02] <Matt_soton> and a new era of designers
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:02] <priyesh> yeah. a new team
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[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> and an atmospheric sampler
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> that would be cool
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> Matt_soton, priyesh did you calibrate your light sensor from II.2?
[19:07] <Matt_soton> nope
[19:07] <Matt_soton> that didnt end up too well in the ned
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[19:07] <Matt_soton> didnt help it saturated very easily
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[19:07] <Matt_soton> actually i havnt really analysed the data from the last one
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:08] <Matt_soton> i should probably do that at some point
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> balloon entered stratosphere
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> hi mixio_citizen
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[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> "16/07 20:09 RalphW0RPK : I copy multiple W6 RTTY stations here in Iowa so it appears the payload telemetry transmitter is not on-the-air."
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> Matt_soton but it's definately good that you have the team
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> compared to me acting alone with your help here being remotely
[19:12] <Matt_soton> ineed
[19:13] <Matt_soton> means someone else can do the stuff you dont feel like doing:P
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> but well
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> I hope I can do it
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> next thing to get is the GPS
[19:14] <Matt_soton> im sure ull get there in the end :)
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> I want to make a speed-of-sound measurement
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> and I would like to do quite a pile of other things
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> like a field mill or so
[19:16] <rjharrison> whats the blue ring? Is that the predict data?
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> the radio horizon IIRC
[19:16] <rjharrison> Isn't that the green?
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know, sorry
[19:17] <Matt_soton> one might be visiable and one radio
[19:19] <jonsowman> on the tracker?
[19:19] <jonsowman> one is 0 degree and one is 5 degree
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[19:23] <fsphil> if you click on it it should say too
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[19:30] <mixio_citizen> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:30] <mixio_citizen> hi all
[19:31] <fsphil> not receiving anything from the US balloon, giving up :)
[19:31] <fsphil> huya mixio_citizen
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[19:50] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander, you called me earlier. How are things going?
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> good, thanks
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> and at your place?
[19:53] <GW8RAK> Not bad, been away for 2 weeks in the sun, so can now get round to doing some radio work again
[19:53] <GW8RAK> Weather forecast for tomorrow is terrible, so radio may start tomorrow.
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> and I got my FT-790R running
[19:54] <GW8RAK> And SWMBO has said I can play radio :)
[19:54] <GW8RAK> I used to have a 790 and always regret getting rid of it.
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[19:55] <GW8RAK> Nice radios.
[19:55] <GW8RAK> But needed the money to fund a FT 726
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[19:55] <GW8RAK> Can plug all my radios and aerials in again tomorrow and get back on the air
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> that is good:)
[19:56] <GW8RAK> Perhaps a trip to Maplin the electronics store for some bits
[19:56] Action: fsphil got a VX-7R :)
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:57] <GW8RAK> Have you tried it in a bucket of water yet fsphil?
[19:57] <fsphil> lol nope
[19:57] <fsphil> but from the youtube videos, it looks like it would take it fine
[19:57] <GW8RAK> I made some DF beacons last year for the cadets and put one in a tupperware box in a stream. The cows saw me and trod on it.
[19:57] <fsphil> it's very dinky, but there's an annoying click when the squelch opens and closes
[19:58] <fsphil> eek!
[19:58] <GW8RAK> The radio was completely immersed and with about 3cm of aerial out the water, it was still trying to transmit.
[19:59] <GW8RAK> Commercial radios are quite waterproof.
[19:59] <fsphil> I'd still be wary of having it in the rain
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> do the new Yaesus still take many batteries?
[20:01] <GW8RAK> I once tried a mid winter SOTA activation up Snowdon with a FT290. By the time I finished there was rime ice forming on the aerial!
[20:01] <fsphil> usually only one rechargeable battery pack
[20:01] <fsphil> but the 817 has a battery holder that can take a bunch of AA's
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:01] <fsphil> ooch GW8RAK
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> the 790 here takes 8x C
[20:01] <fsphil> my plan for the VX-7R is to try it with SOTA
[20:01] <fsphil> it's a lot handier than the 817
[20:02] <GW8RAK> I think I've still got the c cells from my 790.
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> also, I can put the antenna from the Stabo on the 790
[20:02] <fsphil> I got some rechargeable cells for my 790, saves a lot in the long run :)
[20:03] <GW8RAK> Stabo?
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[20:03] <fsphil> you might already know Lunar_Lander, but the DC power connector on the 790 is backwards. Negative is the centre pin
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> so if I have a PSU for the socket I need to reverse the polarity?
[20:04] <fsphil> yes
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK do you still have that MVT-7100?
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks fsphil
[20:04] <GW8RAK> Yes
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> that is equivalent to my Stabo XR100
[20:04] <fsphil> I always double check with a multi-meter before I plug it in
[20:04] <GW8RAK> Not used it much. Bit of aircraft listening.
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[20:04] <GW8RAK> I remember you saying now Lunar
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:05] <fsphil> pilot chatter is the most common vhf activity here
[20:05] <fsphil> but they've a language of their own -- I don't know what they're talking about half time :)
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> it would have been great if fsphil's flight would have launched
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> then you could have tested the MVT-7100
[20:05] <fsphil> it did launch :) just at the wrong time lol
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> and I would have known if the Stabo is enough for safe reception
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah
[20:06] <GW8RAK> A friend is a pilot and when going into Heathrow, they have two people on air traffic control as 2 can speak faster than 1
[20:06] <fsphil> yikes
[20:06] <fsphil> all seems to be mainly on the one frequency here, 123.775
[20:07] <GW8RAK> Lunar_Lander, I found the 7100 is not as sensitive as the Yeasu 726, but the difference was not enormous. A simple preamp made it equivalent to the 726
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> I noticed something
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> when I have the stabo connected to the PC and dl-fldigi, there is no sound
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> when I do that with the 790 and turn up its volume, the sound is played via the PC speakers when it passes a certain setting
[20:08] <fsphil> your line-in is probably muted, or turned down low in your sound settings
[20:08] <fsphil> you've probably just got the 790 volume up a lot louder and it's breaking through
[20:09] <GW8RAK> Is the squelch on fldigi on?
[20:10] <GW8RAK> It could be the sound input is not high enough.
[20:10] <GW8RAK> I think the 7100 is quite low audio output
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:14] <fsphil> telemetry lost for the us balloon
[20:15] <fsphil> nobody but bill was receiving it, and it's gone behind a mountain from the station he was using
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> but GW8RAK the important thing I wanted to say
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> about the electron generator
[20:18] <GW8RAK> Oh yes, did you have any thoughts?
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> the filament would be subjected to low pressure
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> but the oxygen content of the high atmosphere is almost the same
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> so the oxidation and burning of the wire would occur, only a bit slower than on Earth
[20:21] <GW8RAK> The percentage is aobut the same, yes
[20:21] <GW8RAK> Oh well, it was a good idea. Just not good in practice
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> but the good Mr Einstein helps us
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> UV lamp
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> Zinc Plate
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> free electrons
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> there we have it
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> a hazard-free way of generating electrons
[20:23] <GW8RAK> Do you think it would work to measure electron capturing molecules?
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> we'd need to look at the different materials
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> but the photo effect is the only way to get electrons besides filaments or beta emitters
[20:25] <GW8RAK> I wonder if the sunlight at altitude would be enough to generate electrons?
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> but you'd need a heliostat to get the light into the payload at all times
[20:27] <GW8RAK> I think it would be a good experiment and worth playing with.
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[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> ydea
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> and the UV lamp to ensure operation
[20:29] <fsphil> you can get UV LEDs -- or would they not be powerful enough?
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> it's not about intensity
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> the photo effect depends on the frequency
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> so the LEDs could work
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> you can determine Planck's constant with LEDs
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> so LEDs should be able to do it
[20:42] <fsphil> cool
[20:44] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: I considered actually a led triggered spark gap, zinc has a work function sufficiently low for most common uv leds to work
[20:45] <BrainDamage> I mean something in the order of 380, 400 nm
[20:46] <BrainDamage> 400 nm provides photons on the 3eV range
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: ping
[20:49] <GW8RAK> I wonder if that energy will be high enough for electron capture? Does it require energetic electrons?
[20:50] <GW8RAK> It's such a lon time since I did all this work.
[20:50] <GW8RAK> lon = long
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> well
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> the nickel-63 electrons are also accelerated towards an anode
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[21:20] <jcoxon> Evening
[21:20] <NigeyS> evening james
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:22] <jcoxon> Good
[21:22] <jcoxon> Is the hf flight up?
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> it landed at Kilowatt, CA
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> in a step-down station
[21:25] <jcoxon> Uh oh
[21:25] <Upu> ouch
[21:25] <Upu> where did you source that from ?
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[21:26] <NigeyS> the aprs sat image is pretty convincing
[21:27] <Upu> url ?
[21:27] <NigeyS> http://aprs.fi/?call=WB9KMO&mt=roadmap&z=11&timerange=3600
[21:28] <jcoxon> Did the hf work?
[21:28] <Upu> oh shit
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> That is truly spectacularly bad luck
[21:29] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, can say that again
[21:29] <NigeyS> jcoxon, think so, but couldnt get any signal from it here
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> right on the busbar
[21:30] <jcoxon> Fair enough. Spacenear doesn't work on my phone
[21:30] <NigeyS> ahh, spacenear was showing alt of 18km then LOS
[21:31] <jcoxon> Oh dear
[21:31] <NigeyS> 16/07 22:30
[21:31] <NigeyS>
[21:31] <NigeyS> WB8ELK
[21:31] <NigeyS> :
[21:31] <NigeyS> It's a Hydrogen power generating facility ... how appropriate
[21:31] <NigeyS> lol
[21:32] <jcoxon> Hopefully it'll be fine and missed
[21:33] <jcoxon> NigeyS when are you launching?
[21:34] <NigeyS> either next saturday or sunday, depending on weather.
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[21:37] <jcoxon> Cool
[21:37] <jcoxon> Foil?
[21:38] <NigeyS> yup, got 5 36inchers, 4 + a backup
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[21:39] <NigeyS> debating on wether the parachute will be of any use
[21:40] <NigeyS> on such a light payload
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[21:49] <RocketBoy> NigeyS: I would think you can do away without a chute with such a light payload
[21:50] <RocketBoy> even if all the balloons burst they would make a good streamer
[21:50] <NigeyS> my thinking as well
[21:50] <jcoxon> Agreed
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon I got my FT-790R today
[21:51] <jcoxon> Hooray
[21:51] <jcoxon> Good choice
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> then I went to ALDI to get 8 size C batteries
[21:52] <jcoxon> Worth getting a power supply
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> I set up Upu's tutorial rig again
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:53] <RocketBoy> Nm-h?
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> one that gives 12 V is good right?
[21:53] <jcoxon> Though watch the socket type, mine is reversed I think
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah fsphil told me
[21:53] <RocketBoy> yeah its a nasty 2.5mm jack IIRC
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy alkaline
[21:54] <RocketBoy> they will work fine- but single use
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> I wanted to get the thing running you know
[21:55] <Upu> no power supply ?
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> no
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> let me check the box again
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> I got it off ebay
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[21:56] <Upu> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-Fortinet-FortiGate-60-replacement-power-supply-/190555641146?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2c5e00553a
[21:56] <Upu> thats what I sue
[21:56] <Upu> 3A
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> no only the microphone and the handbook
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[21:57] <Upu> or any of the notebook replacement PSU's should do its only QRP ?
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:57] <Upu> actually
[21:57] <Upu> if you can find a plug for it
[21:57] <Upu> I'll mail you my adaptor I got with my 817
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:57] <Upu> it was a Euro plug and annoyed me
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> wait a moment
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah, one with two sticks then?
[21:58] <Upu> had to use an adaptor and it kept falling out
[21:58] <Upu> yeah
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:58] <RocketBoy> The 790 PSU is actually a HiCd charger -- its marked 11.6V 150mA
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> Schuko
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:58] <RocketBoy> Nicd
[21:58] <Upu> different to the 817's ?
[21:59] <RocketBoy> the 2.5mm charger plug is +ve and sleve -ve
[21:59] <Upu> well this adaptor doesn't have a 2.5mm plug on it as I chopped it off to put it on the new PSU
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> so what do you mean by "if I can find a plug for it"?
[22:01] <Upu> I have the mains adaptor but the bit that plugs into the radio has been chopped off
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> so I have to solder around at a 230 V connection?
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[22:03] <Upu> no
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> good
[22:03] <Upu> the mains side is fine, the 12v side needs the plug on it
[22:03] <RocketBoy> Just checked inside the charger - there is one transformer, one 315mA fuse and 1 diode - almost certainly a 1N4001
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[22:04] <RocketBoy> easy to build - those plugs are easy to get
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:07] <RocketBoy> I have some 3500mAH NmHi in mine - lasts absolute ages (hours and hours) - unlike the FT817
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> isn't it also that the RX part does need very little power?
[22:08] <RocketBoy> sure - but there is a huge difference between the FT790 and 817 on RX current draw
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> and TX does need more power
[22:09] <RocketBoy> oh sure - but thats expected with a few W of output
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> of course
[22:14] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UKHAS Conference 2011"
[22:15] <fsphil> I'll have to try making a contact with the 790 when I get it back
[22:15] <fsphil> see if anyone nearby uses 70cm
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[22:17] <fsphil> a lot of people seem to use it too for driving microwave transverters (sp?)
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[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> oh well
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK's system could be difficult
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> Nickel-63 produces beta rays with an energy of 27 keV
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> so if we create an electron (anyhow), we'd need 27 kilovolts to get it to the same energy
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> are you trying to make a nuclear device or something
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> or aerosol kit?
[22:48] Action: Laurenceb_ is getting very confused by uav ground stations
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> qgroundcontrol should be simpler but seems to have ARINC 424 crazyness
[22:49] <SpeedEvil> ARINC??
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARINC_424
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> they implimented ARINC in XML
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> That seems...
[22:51] <Laurenceb_> at least it doesnt impliment requests as sperate threads
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> this is going to be a pita to debug, im going to have it open a mavlink 'port' over usart1 with dma
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb_ GW8RAK once suggested an electron capture detector
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> to detect halogens on a HAB
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> then i can pretent its a zigbee module and connect directly with qgroundcontrol
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> and normally those use Nickel-63
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> i see
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> but we wanted to try to find a non-nuclear way to get electrons
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> that could be interesting
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> and the idea was, using the photoelectric effect
[22:53] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: ioniser
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> i think i can strip out the crazy stuff from mavlink
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: I mean - buy http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LLOYDS-PHARMACY-IONISING-ALLERGY-PET-DUST-AIR-PURIFIER-/330589169137?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item4cf8a665f1
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> that was itd be quite simple, just a request-response protocol
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> with ground station making requests
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> and a heartbeat packet sent at x hz
[22:55] <Lunar_Lander> thanks SpeedEvil
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> come to think of it mavlink is actually a nice way to debug uavs on the ground
[22:59] <Laurenceb_> ill make this the main debugging interface XD
[23:06] <fsphil> yay, got a descent pair of headphones at last. cheepy jvc's from tesco, but they're comfie and block out a fair bit of background noise
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> i need some noise cancelling headphones at work to cancel out other peoples annoying repetitive headphone music
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> 4 tracks on repeat every day makes me so mad
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> especially when its the soundtrack to the godfather
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[23:12] <SpeedEvil> Noise cancelling headphones don't work well for music
[23:12] <SpeedEvil> you mean isolating?
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> sod it ill apply a few Kv to their sound cards
[23:15] <fsphil> these are just the squishy in-ear ones
[23:15] <fsphil> I can still hear external noises but it's fairly muted
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[23:20] <SpeedEvil> I've found the ones that came with my n900 work well for that
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> To the point I don't need ear protectors often
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[23:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Josh Taylor "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Request for arduino set up!"
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> by the way SpeedEvil
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> that thing only creates ions
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> we would need free electrons
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> because these can be captured by halogens
[23:33] <fsphil> just found a year old redhat bugzilla entry for one of my apps. not a very good system if upstream never hears about it
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Sun Jul 17 2011