highaltitude.log.20110715

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[05:14] <SamSilver> fsphil: good morning
[05:14] <SamSilver> do you know where I can find video of rob's balloon
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[06:31] <fsphil> I just saw pictures so far SamSilver
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[06:38] <SamSilver> Thanx I will keep a look out
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[07:42] <mattltm> mornin' all :)
[07:44] <M0JSN> morning
[07:44] <mattltm> Hi M0JSN :)
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[07:45] <mattltm> Hows it going Jon?
[07:54] <fsphil> friday, woo
[07:57] <fsphil> hehe, looking to buy a nice cheapy second hand car, and I'm looking at the pictures thinking "will a T cylinder fit in that boot"
[07:58] <SamSilver> "how big a yagi can it take?"
[07:58] <fsphil> can it be mounted on the roof...
[07:59] <fsphil> if I'm not careful it'll end up like that car Darkside was using
[07:59] <M0JSN> good thanks mattltm
[07:59] <M0JSN> yourself?
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[08:30] <mattltm> Im good now that it's FRIDAY!!!!!
[08:30] <mattltm> Morning fsphil :)
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[08:44] <fsphil> ooh Dawn goes into orbit around Vesta today
[08:44] <fsphil> hopefully
[08:48] <rjharrison_> Any launches planned this w/e
[08:51] <Upu> morning
[08:51] <fsphil> none that I've heard of
[08:51] <Upu> ditto
[08:51] <Upu> I'm next weekend as long as weather is ok
[08:51] <fsphil> I'm not trying again until September
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[08:55] <fsphil> love the ip address juxta
[08:55] <mattltm> lol. No 1 :)
[08:56] <rjharrison_> Hey Terry hows it going
[08:56] <juxta> hey all
[08:57] <juxta> hah. 1, interesting
[08:59] <juxta> rjharrison_, what's new?
[09:03] <rjharrison_> Ho got a few launches on over the next few months
[09:04] <juxta> excellent
[09:04] <juxta> havent had much time down here in the last few months
[09:04] <juxta> and the weather is pretty rotten at the moment too
[09:11] <Darkside> juxta: had a look at the source?
[09:12] <juxta> Darkside, not yet - just went for a walk at goolwa beach
[09:12] <Darkside> ahh
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[09:50] <Upu> got a letter back from Energiser who, politely, said no to our request
[09:50] <Upu> never mind
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[09:52] <fsphil> worth a go
[09:52] <Upu> yeah
[09:53] <M0JSN> Battery Force sponsors us
[09:53] <M0JSN> by 'us' I mean the Apex project
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[09:59] <WillDuckworth> anyone know where the project squirrel android apk is for the sstv martin 1 transmissions?
[09:59] <WillDuckworth> got a phone kindly donated
[10:04] <Randomskk> uhm
[10:04] <Randomskk> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/wiki/doku.php?id=project_squirrel
[10:05] <Randomskk> I don't think it's publically available right now?
[10:05] <Randomskk> not sure
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[10:13] <WillDuckworth> cheers, i'll have a nose - think it's just the photo automation part available
[10:14] <fsphil> There's source for a martin 1 encoder somewhere, will see if I can dig it out
[10:14] <fsphil> just a C file though
[10:14] <fsphil> not sure if that's any use to you
[10:15] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:sstvmod
[10:16] <fsphil> jpeg in, wav out
[10:18] <WillDuckworth> cheers fsphil - i've been looking at that, see what happens
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[10:57] <Laurenceb> is there a way to force ubuntu to use the next versions repo?
[10:57] <Laurenceb> so i could force lucid to use onic or whatever
[10:58] <BrainDamage> can't you do a simple distro upgrade?
[10:58] <mixio_citizen> ping fsphil
[10:58] <Laurenceb> i down want >10.04 ubuntu
[10:59] <BrainDamage> you can add the repo source for a specific package, but, you can easily get dep chain break
[10:59] <mixio_citizen> fsphil: http://www.emartee.com/category/Camera-Module/
[10:59] <Laurenceb> hmm
[10:59] <BrainDamage> esp if they switched libc, which tends to break half of the system
[10:59] <Laurenceb> grrr
[10:59] <Laurenceb> i need libopenscenegraph 2.8.2+
[10:59] <Laurenceb> lucid has 2.8.1 :(
[10:59] <BrainDamage> you can simply compile it, can't you?
[11:00] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:00] <BrainDamage> apt has functionality for automatic compilation as well
[11:00] <Laurenceb> this will probably end badly :(
[11:00] <BrainDamage> if you grab the apt src package
[11:00] <BrainDamage> start with sudo apt-get install build-deps libopenscenegraph-dev
[11:02] <Laurenceb> it thinks build-deps is a pacjage
[11:02] <BrainDamage> sorry
[11:02] <BrainDamage> sudo apt-get build-dep libopenscenegraph-dev
[11:02] <Laurenceb> got it
[11:03] <Laurenceb> right... so how do i build it?
[11:03] <BrainDamage> find a deb src package for libopenscenegraph
[11:03] <Laurenceb> oh.. i have the build deps now i can grab the source right
[11:04] <BrainDamage> and you can use the automated process
[11:04] <BrainDamage> otherwise, grab the src tarball, yes
[11:05] <Laurenceb> their site is down :(
[11:06] <BrainDamage> why the hell ubuntu insist calling it's releases with silly names
[11:06] <BrainDamage> how the hell am I supposed to know if natty comes before or after maverick :/
[11:06] <Laurenceb> first letter
[11:06] <Laurenceb> its alphabetical
[11:06] <BrainDamage> ah
[11:07] <BrainDamage> http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/libopenscenegraph-dev
[11:07] <BrainDamage> http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/natty/openscenegraph
[11:07] <BrainDamage> got to the bottom
[11:07] <BrainDamage> there's 3 files
[11:07] <BrainDamage> grab all 3
[11:08] <BrainDamage> then sudo apt-src build libopenscenegraph-dev
[11:08] <BrainDamage> execute that command in the folder where you parked the files
[11:08] <BrainDamage> if the command succeeds, you should get a .deb file, that you can install with dpkg
[11:11] <Laurenceb> do i need to extract it all?
[11:12] <BrainDamage> no
[11:12] <Laurenceb> E: Not installed
[11:12] <BrainDamage> try openscenegraph
[11:13] <BrainDamage> instead of libopenscenegraph
[11:13] <BrainDamage> try adding-omitting the -deb
[11:13] <BrainDamage> I don't know the package name
[11:13] <BrainDamage> tab completion might work, don't know
[11:14] <Laurenceb> Source: openscenegraph
[11:14] <Laurenceb> Binary: libopenthreads-dev, libopenthreads13, libopenscenegraph-dev, libopenscenegraph65, openscenegraph-doc, openscenegraph, openscenegraph-examples
[11:14] <Laurenceb> in the dsc file
[11:14] <BrainDamage> try that then
[11:14] <Laurenceb> it give E: not installed
[11:15] <SamSilver> http://space-balloon.net/index.html
[11:15] <Laurenceb> *gives
[11:17] <Laurenceb> so how is this supposed to work? it reads the dsc file?
[11:17] <BrainDamage> yes, it's supposed to read that
[11:17] <Laurenceb> hmm
[11:17] <Laurenceb> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
[11:17] <Laurenceb> Hash: SHA1
[11:17] <Laurenceb> Format: 1.0
[11:17] <Laurenceb> ^do i need to remove that?
[11:17] <BrainDamage> can you search for an internet tutorial for using deb-src?
[11:17] <BrainDamage> cannot test atm
[11:17] <Laurenceb> heh ok
[11:17] <Laurenceb> thanks for the help
[11:17] <SamSilver> afk
[11:17] <BrainDamage> and it's been a while since I did the last
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[11:41] <fsphil> you'd have a fun time interfacing with most of those cameras mixio_citizen
[12:14] <mixio_citizen> fsphil what do u mean?
[12:14] <fsphil> they're not simple serial interfaces
[12:14] <fsphil> parallel from the looks of it
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[12:26] <daveake_> fsphil / mixio_citizen Sparkfun did a camera with UART i/f but it's discontinued
[12:27] <fsphil> yea the C328, flew one on my first flight
[12:27] <daveake_> :) Any good?
[12:27] <fsphil> it's not bad - didn't get complete images from it due to a bug in my code
[12:27] <fsphil> I flew another camera with the same chipset on that last one
[12:28] <fsphil> same kind of images, just a wider lens
[12:28] <daveake_> Do you have a separate UHF link for the video?
[12:28] <fsphil> it dumps it over the rtty stream, mixed in with the telemetry strings
[12:28] <fsphil> a bit slow but seems to work well
[12:28] <daveake_> I mean pictures ... not expecting video frame rates :)
[12:28] <daveake_> OK so do you send a pixel line in one message, something like that?
[12:29] <fsphil> yea, the image is jpeg and it gets split up into packets of 256 bytes
[12:29] <fsphil> so it sends a packet, then a string, then another packet.. etc
[12:30] <daveake_> What happens if a packet gets missed? Does that mess up the remainder?
[12:30] <fsphil> on the first flight yea, but I was able to fix that
[12:30] <fsphil> gaps are harmless now
[12:30] <daveake_> cool
[12:30] <daveake_> I may have more questions for you at some point then :)
[12:31] <fsphil> np :)
[12:31] <daveake_> I was looking earlier at a Canadian project where they dropped a glider from a balloon at 65,000 feet, with varying success
[12:32] <daveake_> They had it automatically fly home. Well once it did :)
[12:32] <daveake_> Pretty impressive
[12:35] <mixio_citizen> fsphil, they have a sda/scl which is twi interface
[12:36] <fsphil> I suspect that is only to control the camera mixio_citizen - though I could be wrong
[12:36] <fsphil> I haven't read the datasheets
[12:36] <fsphil> daveake_, that would be the ultimate tree-avoidance system
[12:37] <daveake_> LOL. I think the Gods were with me when mine found the only gap in a forest :)
[12:38] <daveake_> Main thing for me next time is to make it more stable, and to avoid the balloon tying up the parachute cords.
[12:38] <fsphil> oh, mine found the only gap too -- and then missed it
[12:38] <daveake_> So this morning's purchases have been some nichrome wire and some ball-bearing swivels :)
[12:38] <daveake_> LOL
[12:38] <fsphil> yes nichrome wire - I think I'll build a cut-down with that, like Upu was experimenting with
[12:38] <daveake_> Someone mentioned some glue which goes soft when you put voltage on it
[12:38] <fsphil> oooh now that's a neat trick
[12:39] <daveake_> Nichrome sounds safer
[12:39] <daveake_> It is
[12:39] <mixio_citizen> why those cams are so cheap and better than the other which costs 45$ and its 0.3MP ?
[12:39] <fsphil> how far apart where the balloon and chute on the line?
[12:39] <daveake_> not far enough
[12:39] <daveake_> Maybe 7m from balloon to chute, and 2m from chute to payload
[12:40] <daveake_> The chute cords were *completely* tied up with latex
[12:40] <fsphil> ahh, yea we had the same and ended up with a similar failure
[12:40] <fsphil> we also got most of the balloon back that time - not sure if the cirrus guys weighed it
[12:41] <daveake_> One thing I've found here with "issues" ... when you have them there's a chorus of "Yeah, I did that once" :)
[12:41] <fsphil> mixio_citizen, they don't include the controller chip that does all the funky jpeg and serial interface stuff
[12:41] <fsphil> indeed :) hence the common errors page we started
[12:41] <daveake_> Great!
[12:41] <fsphil> it's all programming at the moment but I think it should be expanded to include general mistakes
[12:41] <daveake_> I'll see if I can add any :)
[12:42] <daveake_> I weighed the remains at about 600g, but I need to detach from the chute to weigh it more carefully
[12:42] <rjharrison_> the rule of thirds will solve that. Payload 2/3 line Chute 1/3 Balloon
[12:42] <daveake_> http://www.eiclabs.com/ERhome.htm for the glue
[12:42] <fsphil> "Dont: Let go of the balloon" :)
[12:42] <daveake_> TVM rjharrison
[12:42] <rjharrison_> lol
[12:42] <daveake_> LOL we got that one right
[12:42] <fsphil> yea I try to keep it all 1/3 away
[12:43] <fsphil> though I think I had the chute 1/3 to the payload that last time
[12:43] <fsphil> the balloon landed first
[12:43] <daveake_> !!!
[12:43] <daveake_> OK, I guess it would :)
[12:44] <fsphil> just as well too, that tree was a lot taller
[12:44] <rjharrison_> If you use any cutdowns then this rule dosen't work but for burst launches then the thirds rule is well proven
[12:44] <daveake_> So some very very long lines would help re the trees!
[12:44] <fsphil> yea, long lines
[12:45] <M0JSN> rjharrison_: wrong way round surely?
[12:45] <fsphil> I'm going to put the cut-down in but I won't use it to separate the balloon and payload/chute
[12:45] <fsphil> I'm keeping it as a backup
[12:45] <M0JSN> want balloon-chute line to be longer so it falls below the payload
[12:45] <fsphil> so if it 's dangling from a tree I can command it to cut down then
[12:45] <Upu> just fit a remote controlled chain saw to it
[12:46] <rjharrison_> M0JSN, I don't think so. The balloon can then dangle halfway between chute and payload on the way down
[12:46] <daveake_> upu LOL
[12:46] <fsphil> M0JSN, the cord between the balloon and the chute might interfere with the payload
[12:46] <Upu> cut away is a nice idea
[12:46] <daveake_> yep
[12:46] <fsphil> also if you have a slow leak...
[12:46] <M0JSN> I'd think that's better than having the balloon remains around the chute
[12:47] <daveake_> Definitely, as the state of my payload box will confirm
[12:47] <M0JSN> I've always done it as payload 1/3 chute 2/3 balloon
[12:47] <Upu> Personally the explosive ones look better
[12:47] <fsphil> it looks like a lemming .. "Oh no!" *POP*
[12:47] <rjharrison_> Payload----------20m----------chute---------10m------balloon leads to Payload ------10m------Balloon-------10m------Chute
[12:48] <rjharrison_> M0JSN, but the balloon will enfungle the payload
[12:48] <M0JSN> it will be 10m below the payload
[12:48] <rjharrison_> Bear in mind that as you enther the thicker atmosphere the drag on the balloon will increase eventually causing the payload to fall through the balloon.
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[12:49] <M0JSN> better than the chute going through the balloon
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[12:50] <M0JSN> if you've got balloon-chute-payload then when entering denser air, the balloon remains will rise up towards the chute and entangle the shroud lines
[12:50] <rjharrison_> Well once could aregue if the chute goes through the balloon then the balloon is creating more drag than the parachute
[12:50] <M0JSN> it's possible, but I'd've thought the risk of entangling shroud lines is higher like that
[12:52] <rjharrison_> just in 15 launches the camera has shown the abouve rule to work. The video shows the balloon being held between the chute and the payload and TBH by the time it hits the thick stuff the balloon is so wound up in the line it moves very little
[12:53] <rjharrison_> We filmed a balloon from launch to burst last year and you can see the whole system working very well.
[12:54] <rjharrison_> Anyone launching this w/e
[12:55] <M0JSN> I've used the above method many times too and I've also not had any problems regarding balloon remains interfering with the payload
[12:55] <M0JSN> perhaps it just doesn't matter
[12:55] <M0JSN> so long as the chute-payload and balloon-chute lengths are significantly different
[12:56] <daveake_> They were significantly different in mine (balloon-chute much longer than chute-payload). My lengths were too short though.
[12:57] <daveake_> Result --> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/P1030012-1024x768.jpg
[12:58] <M0JSN> yeah you want a large total length mainly to avoid radio fading
[12:58] <rjharrison_> M0JSN, that is the key i'm sure
[12:58] <daveake_> Stability wasn't good on mine - both spinning and swinging
[12:58] <daveake_> Next time I'll do better :)
[12:59] <M0JSN> longer lines will help a lot with the latter
[12:59] <rjharrison_> fsphil, do you have a project page?
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[12:59] <M0JSN> daveake_: as for spinning, the launch has a big effect. if you can launch gently without spinning or swinging then you'll minimise both for the entire fight
[12:59] <M0JSN> *flight
[12:59] <rjharrison_> daveake_, that looks very typical
[13:00] <rjharrison_> Steve soft launch approach is quite good for this too i believe
[13:01] <daveake_> All the way up to the chute? It must have been barely open at the end
[13:01] <rjharrison_> Yep I had that problem on my first flight in 2008
[13:01] <daveake_> I was pleased I'd opted for a 4' chute when a 3' one would have been OK for my payload weight according to the chart
[13:01] <rjharrison_> Thankfully the balloon didi a good job of slowing the payload down :-)
[13:02] <daveake_> :D
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[13:02] <daveake_> I'm estimating 25mph at the end, though a tree did manage to slow it a bit
[13:03] <daveake_> Pretty sure I'll put a balloon release in for next time
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[13:03] <rjharrison_> daveake_, http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/2962008746/
[13:04] <daveake_> Looks familiar :)
[13:06] <rjharrison_> daveake_, so now I launch like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/4529365004/in/set-72157623877214502
[13:06] <Upu> Icarus was much smaller than I though
[13:06] <Upu> its smaller than Ava
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[13:07] <rjharrison_> daveake_, did you get some good pics back
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[13:07] <daveake_> rjharrison_ - interesting. Longer than mine, and t'other way round.
[13:07] <daveake_> No pics from the camera due to an operator manfunction, but did get video of the entire flight.
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[13:08] <daveake_> Very pleased with the video. It stopped on impact but worked great through the flight
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[13:08] <Upu> I fancy the idea of a second pyro driven emergency parachute if the decent rate is too fast
[13:08] <daveake_> On the way down, with the balloon flapping around - http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/5926645238/ ... the balloon didn't get in the way of the video much though
[13:09] <Upu> push one out of a tube party popper style
[13:09] <rjharrison_> Upu, sounds good
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> daveake_: pretty
[13:09] <daveake_> I thought so :)
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> daveake_: Sort of looks like a flower.
[13:09] <daveake_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveake/sets/72157627170275146/ for the full set
[13:09] <daveake_> :D
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> I have a rose outside almost the same.
[13:09] <daveake_> I put 4 videos on YT - user "choccydonuts"
[13:10] <daveake_> :)
[13:10] <daveake_> My mum's name was Rose ... so I can remember her from the pictures :)
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[13:13] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/wI0dB.png
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/5940096308/in/photostream
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> Not a good pic
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: neat
[13:14] <Dan-K2VOL> is that a flower or a latex balloon chunk?
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[13:14] <Darkside> ugh
[13:14] <Darkside> how can i get board information out of eagle
[13:14] <Darkside> theres a PCB here with a custom shape, and i want to get the measurements for that shape
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Mine is a flower.
[13:15] <daveake_> Roses do smell better than latex balloons!
[13:16] <rjharrison_> Darkside, this is one of my favorite pics http://www.robertharrison.org/icarus/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Icarus-II-Pano-01.jpg
[13:16] <fsphil> rjharrison_, not a proper one yet, but I started: http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/hab/
[13:16] <Darkside> i presume that was directed at daveake_
[13:17] <rjharrison_> opps yep
[13:17] <rjharrison_> Too many people on here these days
[13:17] <daveake_> Well you got 2 letters right :)
[13:17] <rjharrison_> It used to just be 5 or 6
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[13:17] <daveake_> LOL
[13:17] <daveake_> The local rag spelt my name wrong.
[13:18] <fsphil> the first time I joined this channel there where about 50 people watching jcoxon's floater that landed in holland
[13:18] <fsphil> got me hooked
[13:18] <daveake_> Same mistake as on my original birth certificate, and on the first 3 marriage certificates (just 1 marriage ... they got it wrong 3 times in a row!)
[13:19] <daveake_> rjharrison_ woah, that is truly beautful
[13:19] <daveake_> (or some word similar to that)
[13:19] <Upu> rjharrison interesting that look which one I picked to try get some sponsors for the conference with : https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwbgjelYIULpNDBiMzI4MWUtZDQwYi00YjgxLWE1NWQtZmZlZjllMDNiMDUz&hl=en_US
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[13:19] <daveake_> Has anyone tried an early or late launch specifically to catch sunrise/sunset?
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:20] <Upu> yeah
[13:20] <daveake_> and ... were the pix good?
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> A bit over a year ago I think
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> yes
[13:20] <daveake_> Cool
[13:20] <Upu> some lovely pictures, 3am start though :)
[13:20] <daveake_> That's what I was thinking of for next time
[13:20] <Darkside> rjharrison_: thanks for my new desktop background
[13:21] <daveake_> Ugh! Early it is though - gives you the day to find it before it gets dark
[13:21] <daveake_> Less wind too probably
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[13:22] <daveake_> Oh, and while I'm in question mode :), how does one go about adding chase cars to the tracker? Does dl-fldigi connect to a GPS in the car?
[13:23] <Randomskk> kiiiinda
[13:23] <fsphil> only if it can present a serial port to the PC
[13:23] <daveake_> Understood. I've had an RS232 one and think I have a USB one somewhere that installs a virtual RS232 port
[13:24] <fsphil> yea, those will work if it sends GPGGA strings over that port
[13:24] <daveake_> OK, I'll check for that then
[13:24] <fsphil> mine doesn't, can't remember the model
[13:24] <fsphil> I used a little usb gps dongle
[13:24] <daveake_> They all seem to have a different set of strings they send
[13:29] <fsphil> they should all support the nmea format
[13:30] <fsphil> some do an additional binary format
[13:35] <rjharrison_> daveake_, do you mean like these http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/3576368248/in/set-72157618814637849/
[13:38] <daveake_> fsphil - yes, all the ones I've seen do NMEA, but they select a different set of NMEA messages to transmit (by default - I think you can ask for specific strings)
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[13:39] <rjharrison_> Darkside, you're welcome
[13:39] <daveake_> rjharrison_ for some reason flickr isn't loading right now. I'll keep trying
[13:39] <WillDuckworth> nice collectio rjharrison_ . Good quality for a compact
[13:41] <griffonbot> Received email: Solar Balloonman "[UKHAS] Re: UKHAS Conference - request for presentations"
[13:41] <Upu> daveake_ you got an iPhone /
[13:41] <Upu> daveake_ you got an iPhone ?
[13:41] <daveake_> Android
[13:42] <daveake_> Why......................?
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[13:42] <Upu> I have an app to chase car for the iphone using the built in GPS
[13:42] <daveake_> Ah :)
[13:43] <WillDuckworth> myself and a fellow android user are working on a similar app
[13:43] <daveake_> cool :)
[13:43] <Upu> just trying to find the Wiki page with how to update to the tracker
[13:44] <WillDuckworth> hopefully have it nailed during next week ready for sharing
[13:45] <rjharrison_> WillDuckworth, cool
[13:45] <rjharrison_> I'll be up for a bit of that
[13:46] <Upu> Ah http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:tracker?s[]=tracker
[13:46] <Upu> there you go daveake
[13:46] Nick change: jkominar_ -> jkominar
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[13:46] <Upu> scroll down you can update via HTTP GET
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[13:46] <Upu> if you want to mess about with it use my tracker at http://ava.upuaut.net/tracker the password is whereami
[13:48] <daveake_> rjharrison_ (re pic) that's why I got started on this :). Stunning image.
[13:49] <rjharrison_> daveake_, thanks
[13:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UKHAS Conference - request for presentations"
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[13:52] <edmoore> has nessie been reset recently?
[13:52] <edmoore> DanielRichman / Randomskk
[13:52] <Randomskk> yea
[13:52] <Randomskk> datacentre swapped switch for a gigabit one
[13:52] <Randomskk> so now has gigabit net
[13:52] <Randomskk> but unfortunately knocked the power in the process
[13:53] <rjharrison_> daveake_, this has got to be my most favorite picture of all time http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/4340514598/in/set-72157623711538526
[13:54] <rjharrison_> looks like i'm still getting a few hits on the pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/stats/
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[13:55] <SpeedEvil> no permission on the last
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> oh - I don't think you can ever do that - show your stats page
[13:56] <rjharrison_> SpeedEvil, oh thanks
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> (though I have no stats page, as I haven't updated
[13:56] <rjharrison_> 3.8 million views todate
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> Wow
[13:56] <SpeedEvil> I figure that for what I pay for flickr, I could pretty much find a cheap shell host
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[13:59] <rjharrison_> SpeedEvil, http://imagebin.org/163246
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> neat!
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> I need to take better pics. :)
[14:02] <daveake_> rjharrison_ very nice! Was there a UV filter on the camera? I ask because that photo isn't short of contrast!
[14:06] <rjharrison_> daveake_, I'm a big fan of filter many arn't
[14:06] <rjharrison_> You have a bit of ice on the way up but if you get to 33K+ then your pics should be clear
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[14:07] <daveake_> Comparing that with others, my gut feel is that it makes a big difference
[14:07] <rjharrison_> Keeps the payload nice and warm too
[14:07] <Upu> you got slashdotted for the NASA comment :)
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Oh yeah.
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> Worth listening to.
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> The BBC Reith Lectures are online.
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> All of them. (well - most)
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Listening to one from 1948 - from Bertran Russel.
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[14:10] <rjharrison_> Upu, got a few mentions last year http://www.robertharrison.org/icarus/wordpress/recent-media-links/
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[14:15] <rjharrison_> Hi RocketBoy
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[14:16] <Upu> Yeah Rob I'd be lying if I said I wasn't here because of those articles
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[14:16] <rjharrison_> Upu, HAB is all about having a go. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Natrium42 stuff
[14:16] <rjharrison_> I found that when I decided to put a balloon on a camera
[14:17] <Upu> I saw this stuff in the US about 5 years ago but thought no one would do it here
[14:17] <Upu> yup
[14:19] <daveake_> I started after someone on pistonheads.com linked to a youtube video showing the build and flight of a HAB. Didn't take long to decide that I just had to have a go myself :)
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[14:23] <fsphil> just a standard UV filter rjharrison_?
[14:23] <fsphil> my photos above about 29km where starting to get washed out
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[14:30] <rjharrison_> fsphil, using uv + blue filter brings out the other colours
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[14:31] <rjharrison_> Bill Brown is one of the original ideas people who first didi this over 20 years ago
[14:32] <rjharrison_> RocketBoy, and jcoxon were the first in the UK IIRC
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[14:36] <fsphil-eee> I'll probably try a filter next time
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[14:36] <fsphil-eee> but get it close to the lens
[14:36] <fsphil-eee> try and keep it warm
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[14:41] <chris_99> rjharrison, you mean stacking two filters there?
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[14:43] <rjharrison_> chris_99, no I'd just use some blue film to cover the inside of the UV filter
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[14:44] <rjharrison_> A good test is to take a picture of an existing washed out picture and see what it looks like
[14:44] <rjharrison_> I'm going to send up an IR camera at some point
[14:45] <fsphil-eee> the little serial camera I sent up seems to be IR sensitive
[14:45] <fsphil-eee> though without a filter it just made the colours look odd
[14:45] <chris_99> rjharrison, aha, you could always filter it blue after, if the camera shoots it RAW
[14:45] <fsphil-eee> the ground was red instead of green
[14:46] <chris_99> i wonder how easy it is to remove the IR filter of a powershot
[14:47] <Upu> not sure but the astrophotography guys do it all the time on the Canon SLRS
[14:48] <chris_99> yup, just looked at a tutorial doesn't look too bad
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[14:49] <chris_99> (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=251630)
[14:54] <Darkside> oh god
[14:54] <Darkside> so much 3d modelling to do
[14:54] <Darkside> AAAAAHHHHH
[14:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Josh Taylor "[UKHAS] Request for arduino set up!"
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[15:07] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Request for arduino set up!"
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[16:32] <stl_drock> daveake_ (looks like he's gone) just getting caught up. Along the sunset/rise pictures conversation, we set our Aug 13th launch date hoping to get a picture of a full moon over the horizon.
[16:32] <stl_drock> Anyone try this?
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[16:34] <rjharrison_> stl_drock, sounds good
[16:34] <rjharrison_> Hey RocketBoy you there?
[16:35] <rjharrison_> guess not
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[16:43] <SpeedEvil> Hehe. Surveys.
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> After stating that I'd gone to an supermarket as a result of a deal on freezers - I get asked was it a BOGOF promotion.
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[16:44] <hibby> lol
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[16:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Josh Taylor "[UKHAS] Re: Request for arduino set up!"
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[16:54] <hibby> can someone tell him we're all strapped for cash and can't give him our own kit?
[16:54] <hibby> :p
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[17:02] <Laurenceb_> libopenscenegraph66: Depends: libjpeg62 (>= 6b1) but 6b-15ubuntu1 is to be installed
[17:02] <Laurenceb_> ^what could cause that?
[17:03] <BrainDamage> version 6.1 is required, and only 6 is available
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[17:03] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> version 6.1 of what?
[17:04] <BrainDamage> libjpeg62
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> oh 6b1==6.1
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> 6b- ==6.0
[17:06] <BrainDamage> yup
[17:07] <BrainDamage> and the - is a separator
[17:07] <BrainDamage> it's not part of the version
[17:07] <BrainDamage> - separates lib version from the successive field ( 15ubuntu1 )
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> ok built it on anothe rmachine
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> but it segfaults when i try to use 3d overlay
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[17:30] <nickolai> afternoon all
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[17:31] <DanielRichman> You should only get the vroken package problem if you're using a mix of incompatible repositories or haven't aptitude updated. aptitude would resolve it automatuccally otherwise
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[17:43] <Laurenceb_> i am using a mix :P
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[17:44] <Laurenceb_> anyway, openstreetmap is working now XD
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/oUvvD.png
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[17:45] <NigeyS> nice work Laurence
[17:49] <nickolai> so i'm trying to get my radio set up but i have no idea how to work fl-digi. I'm not sure that it's actually reading data from my sound card?
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> Do you see a waterfall
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> does aything appear o it - moving blue static - for example
[18:02] <nickolai> yea, got moving blue static
[18:04] <nickolai> and when i hold the receiver up to the mic i get a bunch of yellow lines (this is when the audio cable is not connected of course, when it is connected i just get blue static)
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> is the reciever making noise?
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> That is - can you hear the static output?
[18:05] <nickolai> yea
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> If you tune it to s apeech station, do you get moving blobs?
[18:07] <nickolai> which brings me to another question, and please bear with me on my noobery here. The UKHAS website says i need an SSB receiver, but it looks like mine is not SSB (or USB or LSB). My transmitter is radiometrix NTX2. does hearing the static mean i don't need an ssb receiver?
[18:07] <nickolai> define moving blobs
[18:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> nickolai an FM or am receiver will not work
[18:09] <nickolai> so... i'd still be able to hear the static but i won't be able to decode it?
[18:11] <mattltm> nickolai: Every radio/mode can recive static. You need to recive the signal from the NTX2 and then decode it.
[18:12] <nickolai> when i say hear the static, i mean when i tune the receiver to the ntx2 transmitter frequency i hear a bunch of blips, any other frequency and it's just blank
[18:12] <mattltm> The signal that the NTX2 produces is in the USB (Upper Side Band) mode so you must have a reciver capable of reciving USB.
[18:12] <mattltm> What make/model is your reciver?
[18:12] <nickolai> yaesu ft-51r
[18:13] <nickolai> i've looked online and while no one says it doesn't do ssb, sites with a list of receivers and their capabilities do not list ft-51r as having ssb
[18:13] <mattltm> No. That will not be able to decode.
[18:13] <mattltm> Sorry for the bad news. :(
[18:13] <mattltm> You may be able to hear your NTX2 in AM mode but it wont decode properly.
[18:14] <nickolai> ok, that's what i'm trying to figure out
[18:14] <nickolai> so it can still hear the ntx2 but it can't make any sense of what it's hearing
[18:14] <nickolai> right?
[18:15] <mattltm> You can hear it when it is close to the reciver but you wont hear it as it flys away from you :(
[18:15] <mattltm> And it wont decode at all.
[18:15] <nickolai> right now i'm just doing ground tests so hearing close to the receiver is fine, but if it's not decoding i guess this is a pointless exercise :(
[18:16] <mattltm> Sorry :(
[18:16] <nickolai> oh well, i'll just have to borrow the right receiver from someone else (and return this one :P)
[18:16] <nickolai> so how exactly does it work that the radio can hear the transmission but not make any sense of it?
[18:16] <mattltm> It is quite technical but it is down to the type of modulation used.
[18:17] <nickolai> any online resources that might explain it well?
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL1> it's not processing the signal in a way that separates the 1s and 0s out separately, they will produce the same sound on an FM radio (likely what you have)
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> The modulatio used rejects 99.9% of the noise in the ntx2 bandwidth
[18:17] <mattltm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Radio_modulation_modes
[18:17] <mattltm> That should keep you busy :)
[18:18] <Dan-K2VOL1> wheras for fl-digi to work, it must hear two different audio frequency tones, one for 1s and one for 0s
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> see that
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> too
[18:19] <nickolai> cool, thanks guys
[18:19] <mattltm> np :)
[18:19] <Dan-K2VOL1> yw
[18:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> when you have a radio that works, it will sound like a very old telephone dial-up modem
[18:20] <nickolai> good to know :)
[18:21] <nickolai> the one i have kind of sounds like the alien transmissions from that movie signs, with the crop circles
[18:22] <mattltm> This is what it shoud sound like..
[18:22] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/habat_test.wav
[18:22] <mattltm> ^^^ skipp about half way through the file.
[18:23] <nickolai> hehe, that sounds cool
[18:23] <mattltm> and it should look like this....
[18:23] <mattltm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rsq4JY42-eA
[18:25] <nickolai> gotcha, thanks for the links
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> oops
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> synaptic just tried to remove everything from my machine
[18:26] <Laurenceb_> this is not good
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[18:39] <SamSilver> bbl + - 7.5hrs
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[18:39] <fsphil> bah, time travellers
[18:40] <NigeyS> lol
[18:41] <mattltm> lol.
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[18:44] <fsphil> looks like Bill is launching on Saturday, it'll have telemetry on 14.079 so chance it could be received here if conditions are favourable
[18:44] <mattltm> Worth a shot.
[18:44] <mattltm> Ha! Just made a GPS antenna from an old radiosonde :)
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[19:05] <chris_99> where's he launching from?
[19:13] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A06EFE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:14] <nickolai> hey Lunar_Lander
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> hey nickolai
[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[19:16] <nickolai> hot, it's warm down here in FL !
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> I'm OK
[19:16] <nickolai> where are you at, germany?
[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:17] <nickolai> what's the weather like over there?
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> it's sunny, but the first half of the day was cloudy with some rain
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[20:32] <fsphil> dull here all day
[20:33] <griffonbot> Received email: pete edwards "[UKHAS] AOR8000 wideband receiver"
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello fsphil
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> my yaesu is on its way from austria
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> is there a way to check currently installed packages agains default packages in ubuntu?
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[20:40] <fsphil> nice one Lunar_Lander :)
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> it doesn't need an antenna for a workbench test, right?
[20:41] <fsphil> not in my experience, nope
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> good :)
[20:41] <fsphil> you should receive it without an antenna anywhere in the house, or even a few houses away
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> and how do I make sure that the yaesu doesn't send anything?
[20:41] <fsphil> don't plug in the mic
[20:41] <fsphil> I don't think it's possible to transmit without that
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> it has a PTT button right?
[20:42] <fsphil> yea
[20:43] <fsphil> there might be a tone button on the radio too, I can't remember
[20:44] <nickolai> yea i just did a radio test with a yaesu, it worked with static about 10 ft away
[20:44] <nickolai> of course, that was just hearing something, it's not ssb so i couldn't decode anything
[20:44] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Request for arduino set up!"
[20:45] <fsphil> yea the range isn't as good in fm
[20:45] <rjharrison> electronics people Ihave a circuti board and when I twist it the tx changes frequency suggesting some change in voltage is this likey to be a bad joint ?
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:46] <Lunar_Lander> hello rjharrison
[20:47] <rjharrison> Hi Lunar_Lander
[20:47] <rjharrison> or i guess worst still a bad track
[20:51] <fsphil> would stress not normally change the resistance of a track?
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> rjharrison how is ICARUS going?
[20:59] <rjharrison> got the bugger
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[21:02] <BrainDamage> fsphil: tension can alter a resistance, see strain gauges, but it's usually not a huge change
[21:02] <BrainDamage> altho if it's a bad joint
[21:02] <rjharrison> It was a bad joint somewhere just touched the soldering iron to all and it's now fixed
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[21:04] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] AOR8000 wideband receiver"
[21:05] <fsphil> a useful test to do on a new board
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[21:18] <ejcweb> Does the habhub.org tracker exist yet?
[21:24] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Fwd: HF balloon on 20 meters from Santa Barbara this Saturday"
[21:28] <ejcweb> Or is spacenear.us still the 'official' one?
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[21:46] <Upu> ejcweb spacenear.us is the official one
[21:46] <Upu> Run by naturium42 pulling data from rjharrison's server
[21:47] <ejcweb> Upu: But it will be incorporated into habhub.org at some point, is that the idea?
[21:47] <ejcweb> (at least, I'm lead to believe that from the text on the habhub.org home page)
[21:47] <Upu> the are working on habitat the new tracker on habhub now
[21:48] <Upu> there is a demo working 1 sec see if I can find URL
[21:52] <Upu> http://habitat.habhub.org/testing-web/demo.html
[21:52] <Upu> you lot post too many URLS
[21:52] <Upu> click gmpas
[21:52] <Upu> gmaps
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[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
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[22:53] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] AOR8000 wideband receiver"
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[00:00] --- Sat Jul 16 2011