highaltitude.log.20110714

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[04:49] <cuddykid> signing off for just under 2 weeks - off on hol
[04:50] <cuddykid> see you all in about 2 weeks! ttfn
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[06:25] <fsphil> lucky sod :)
[06:28] <SamSilver> my thoughts exactly
[06:29] <SamSilver> fsphil: was there any video of the landing ?
[06:38] <fsphil> haven't seen any yet
[06:38] <SamSilver> did they find the leak
[06:39] <[STAR]Atanyi|AFK> yes
[06:39] Nick change: [STAR]Atanyi|AFK -> Upu
[06:39] <Upu> silly mIRC
[06:39] <Upu> perforations round the neck
[06:39] <SamSilver> I left my work PC on so that I could read up when I got back and Bill Gates had done a download and a restart :-(
[06:40] <Upu> yeah you wouldn't want to be connected to a Windows based life support machine at 3am
[06:40] <SamSilver> perforations from wear and tear
[06:40] <Upu> possibly the tie off
[06:40] <SamSilver> or from zipties
[06:41] <Upu> he took some pictures
[06:41] <SamSilver> we learn a little more each day
[06:41] <SamSilver> each flight
[06:41] <SamSilver> linky please
[06:41] <Upu> indeed, no link yet
[06:46] <fsphil> he's lucky he got it back
[06:47] <fsphil> cool, thunder forecast for saturday here
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[06:52] <Upu> http://www.b3tards.com/u/5e4250e7ecfac98791c6/csi-notw-bloggerheads.jpg pure genius from b3ta
[06:57] <fsphil> haha, I've never even seen the show but I get that
[07:02] <Upu> how hard is it to actually transfer a float to a string in Arduino
[07:02] <fsphil> someone wrote a function just for that, so you don't have to pull in the huge floaty version of printf
[07:03] <Upu> yeah I've used a few versions now
[07:03] <Upu> one has padding issues
[07:03] <Upu> the one I'm using now seems to have overflow issues
[07:03] <Upu> i.e my float = i.e my
[07:03] <Upu> try again i.e my float = LONGDEC = 51.82181
[07:03] <Upu> ends up as 51.16645
[07:04] <Upu> but all the calcs within it seem to use long
[07:04] <Upu> LONGDEC = 0.01268
[07:04] <Upu> gives 0.01268
[07:04] <Upu> it padding is ok :)
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[07:07] <rjharrison> Morning all
[07:12] <Upu> mrning
[07:14] <rjharrison> Hi Upu
[07:14] <rjharrison> I will try to uload the balloon failure pics tonight
[07:14] <rjharrison> Still feeling
[07:14] <rjharrison> tired
[07:15] <fsphil> that was a long drive
[07:16] <Upu> yeah bit of a jaunt round the country
[07:18] <fsphil> good to find out why it happened though
[07:18] <SamSilver> what was the round structure at the landing site rjharrison
[07:22] <Upu> fsphil http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[07:22] <Upu> will pad it out
[07:22] <Upu> but feel free to add
[07:24] <fsphil> ah excellent
[07:25] <fsphil> what's causing the overflow one though?
[07:26] <Upu> max number for an int is 32xxx something
[07:26] <fsphil> ah
[07:26] <Upu> so if you use int by accident 82181 becomes 16645
[07:26] <Upu> unsigned int that one I think
[07:26] <Upu> got that at the moment and trying to fix it
[07:26] <Upu> Arduino is very sucky at maths
[07:26] <fsphil> so needs a 32 bit integer behind the scenes, or a limit to four decimal places
[07:27] <Upu> yeah something like that
[07:27] <Upu> in this example all my variable are floats or long
[07:27] <Upu> but at some point in the calcs its using int and breaking
[07:28] <Upu> going to show how to setup fake GPS and feed that flight into it as well
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[07:35] <fsphil> I'll put a float to string function on there, one that handles negatives properly when f is between -1 and 0
[07:35] <fsphil> that's the other common mistake
[07:36] <fsphil> I'm guilty of that too :)
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[09:15] <jgrahamc> So, yesterday was epic. Today's going to be a let down I guess :-)
[09:16] <jgrahamc> Was there a conclusion on why the balloon managed to leak so nicely.
[09:16] <M0JSN> what happened in the end? did they recover?
[09:16] <M0JSN> real life distarcted me
[09:16] <Elwell> they recovered fine. no pics as camera self-turnedoff
[09:16] <M0JSN> cool
[09:17] <M0JSN> good stuff
[09:17] <Elwell> perforations round the cableties
[09:17] <M0JSN> oh dear
[09:17] <M0JSN> that'a a silly mistake
[09:18] <M0JSN> surprised that didn't burst it
[09:18] <jgrahamc> But the key question is... did they managed to video the descent from the chase car?
[09:22] <fsphil> last I heard there was some video of it in the air, a few km up
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[10:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/876007/WETAB-TAB-PC-295CM116-32GB-WIFI-3G
[10:51] <Laurenceb> interesting
[11:06] <Darkside> picochu, REALLY?
[11:06] <Darkside> >_>
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[11:08] <fsphil> afraid I'm guilty of that
[11:08] <fsphil> people shouldn't let me name things
[11:09] <Darkside> evidently :P
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[11:10] <M0JSN> ol
[11:10] <M0JSN> *lol
[11:11] <Darkside> ok, watching sunshine with Brian Cox's commentary
[11:11] <Darkside> :P
[11:11] <Darkside> i've been told it's awesome
[11:14] <Laurenceb> oh not brian cock
[11:15] <Darkside> lol
[11:15] <Darkside> his commentary is pretty good so far
[11:16] <Darkside> i guess you guys see him a lot more than we do over here in australia
[11:16] <Laurenceb> http://bash.org/?111338
[11:16] <Darkside> seenit
[11:16] <Darkside> i think everyone who has seen bash.org has :P
[11:17] <Darkside> its still as good as ever tho :P
[11:17] <Darkside> <JonJonB> "Yes," Harry said, gripping his wang very tightly, and moving into the middle of the deserted classroom. He tried to keep his mind on flying, but something else kept intruding.... Any second now, he might hear his mother again... but he shouldn't think that, or he would hear her again, and he didn't want to... or did he?
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[11:24] <Elwell> damn you all I'm re-reading bash.org again
[11:25] <Elwell> #244321 and #23396 are still superb tho
[11:25] <Darkside> hahaha
[11:25] <Darkside> which ones are those?
[11:26] <Darkside> oh
[11:26] <Darkside> hunter2
[11:26] <Elwell> RETORT/COUNTER-RETORT and password
[11:26] <Darkside> aaaaaand
[11:26] <Darkside> yes
[11:26] <Darkside> that one :D
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[11:31] <Elwell> #349567 #214810
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[11:32] <Laurenceb> hmf
[11:32] <Darkside> http://bash.org/?942841
[11:32] <Laurenceb> ive forgotten the password i setup for git
[11:33] <Laurenceb> sudo git wont work either
[11:33] <Elwell> and you've checked in your config that its not stashed
[11:33] <Elwell> ah that sort of password
[11:33] <Laurenceb> Permission denied (publickey).
[11:33] <Laurenceb> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
[11:33] <Laurenceb> if i try sudo git
[11:34] <Laurenceb> "an application wants to access the private key <my email> but it is locked
[11:35] <Laurenceb> guess i could try all the passwords i might have used :/
[11:36] <Laurenceb> or reinstall git?
[11:36] <Laurenceb> theres got to be a way to fix this
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[11:39] <Elwell> snigger @ 'Tell you what, at this rate the Belmarsh internal newsletter is going to be one fantastic read...' (via twitter)
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[11:54] <BrainDamage> Laurenceb: won't fix
[11:54] <BrainDamage> you have to unlock your private key
[11:55] <BrainDamage> if you forgot your password, you can simply generate a new key
[11:55] <BrainDamage> and put the key inside github
[11:55] <Laurenceb> yeah im trying that
[11:55] <Laurenceb> seem to have broken it tho
[11:56] <Laurenceb> Agent admitted failure to sign using the key.
[11:56] <Laurenceb> Permission denied (publickey).
[11:56] <Laurenceb> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
[11:56] <BrainDamage> open the git shell
[11:57] <Laurenceb> how
[11:58] <BrainDamage> in the main menu
[11:58] <BrainDamage> there'll be an entry for git shell
[11:58] <Laurenceb> on the web interface?
[11:58] <BrainDamage> no, inside your pc
[11:58] <Laurenceb> i dont have the gui
[11:58] <BrainDamage> you're in linux or windows'
[11:58] <BrainDamage> ?
[11:59] <Laurenceb> linux
[11:59] <BrainDamage> ah ok
[11:59] <BrainDamage> sec
[11:59] <Laurenceb> http://help.github.com/linux-set-up-git/
[11:59] <BrainDamage> ssh-add -l
[11:59] <Laurenceb> i followed that to try and reset everything
[11:59] <BrainDamage> this will list all the keys known to ssh-agent
[11:59] <Laurenceb> seems i broke it completely now
[11:59] <BrainDamage> type what I said
[12:00] <Laurenceb> ok it added a key
[12:00] <Laurenceb> but its giving the samne rror
[12:00] <BrainDamage> "it added a key" ?
[12:00] <BrainDamage> it gives a list of keys
[12:00] <BrainDamage> known to ssh agent
[12:00] <Laurenceb> ssh-add -l
[12:00] <Laurenceb> 2048 f0:ca:0b:ea:36:58:68:36:d2:12:53:54:fa:4f:94:fd
[12:00] <Laurenceb> oops
[12:00] <BrainDamage> that's the loaded key
[12:01] <Laurenceb> probably shouldnt post that
[12:01] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:01] <BrainDamage> nah
[12:01] <BrainDamage> key fngerprint is safe to give around
[12:01] <BrainDamage> and actually wise
[12:01] <BrainDamage> more they know, the better
[12:01] <BrainDamage> it's prvate that should remain as such :p
[12:01] <Laurenceb> i see
[12:02] <BrainDamage> now, compare that key fingerprint with the one that is on github
[12:03] <Laurenceb> how
[12:03] <BrainDamage> open github site
[12:03] <BrainDamage> go to your account preferences
[12:03] <BrainDamage> there's a section called ssh public keys
[12:04] <BrainDamage> how many are listed there?
[12:04] <Laurenceb> but it doesnt have fingerprints
[12:04] <Laurenceb> two
[12:04] <Laurenceb> i reset one of them
[12:04] <BrainDamage> oh right, no fingerprint, the actual key
[12:04] <Laurenceb> ive reset it to the new one im using
[12:05] <BrainDamage> make sure you added the new key to ssh-agent
[12:05] <BrainDamage> ssh-add /path/to/key
[12:05] <BrainDamage> using ssh-add -L should actually list the public and private data
[12:05] <Laurenceb> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
[12:05] <Laurenceb> @ WARNING: UNPROTECTED PRIVATE KEY FILE! @
[12:05] <Laurenceb> its failed
[12:06] <BrainDamage> don't paste ssh-add -L here btw
[12:06] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:07] <Laurenceb> Permissions 0644 for 'github.pub' are too open.
[12:07] <BrainDamage> do a chmod a-r, then followed by u+r
[12:07] <BrainDamage> only your user should have read perm on it
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[12:08] <Laurenceb> its asking for the passphrase
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[12:09] <Laurenceb> one i entered when i setup the key doesnt work
[12:09] <Josh__> hi guys hope everyone is well
[12:09] <BrainDamage> btw, setting up a passfrase is not necessary
[12:10] <Josh__> i was just wondering whether there is a seperate device that people use in balloon launches to record the height of burst
[12:10] <BrainDamage> in fact, you can use no password at all if you're careful the key never leaves your pc
[12:10] <Laurenceb> hmm i have to start again from scratch and make sure everything is delted
[12:10] <Josh__> is there a specialized altimeter out there?
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[12:12] <Laurenceb> ok this is weird
[12:12] <Laurenceb> passphrases always fail
[12:12] <BrainDamage> is ssh-agent running?
[12:13] <BrainDamage> ps aux | grep agent
[12:13] <Josh__> or do you guys use your arduino to record the altitude?
[12:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:13] <Laurenceb> kill it?
[12:13] <BrainDamage> Josh__: absolute pressure sensor and/or gps
[12:14] <BrainDamage> and micro ofc
[12:14] <Darkside> GPS is pretty good
[12:14] <Darkside> not sure of the accuracy, its not all that good
[12:14] <Darkside> but its within +-30m or so
[12:14] <Laurenceb> should i kill ssh-agent?
[12:14] <BrainDamage> Laurenceb: if you re-launch it, you need to re-export the env var
[12:14] <BrainDamage> or programs won't be able to connect to it
[12:14] <BrainDamage> kill it
[12:14] <BrainDamage> then do
[12:14] <Darkside> i'm gonna be having fun soon
[12:14] <Josh__> i always wonder because a gps says it'll go to a height of x amount.....but after tht x amount does it just stop or does it carry on measuring but fail to measure accurately
[12:14] <BrainDamage> eval `ssh-agent`
[12:14] <Darkside> measuring altitudes of 600km
[12:14] <BrainDamage> the quote type is very important
[12:15] <Darkside> Josh__: depends on the GPS
[12:15] <BrainDamage> copy it verbatim
[12:15] <Laurenceb> still fails
[12:15] <Josh__> i see
[12:15] <Laurenceb> bad passphrase
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[12:15] <Darkside> there are export limits on GPS units, the specs says they should not be able to get lock at (velocity >515m/s) AND (altitude > 28000ft)
[12:15] <Laurenceb> ill try without a passphrase :-/
[12:15] <Darkside> wait, that might be 60000ft
[12:15] <BrainDamage> but some manifacturers are lazy, and do just altitude
[12:15] <Darkside> anyway, many GPSes have that implemented as an OR, not an AND
[12:16] <BrainDamage> or that
[12:16] <Darkside> so if either of those conditions is breached, as happens on HAB flights, the gps loses lock
[12:16] <Josh__> ahh ok
[12:16] <Darkside> there are a few GPSes we know have it implemented as an AND, and reccomend
[12:16] <Darkside> they are: uBlox 5/6, Trimble Lassen IQ
[12:16] <Josh__> i'll find a link to the gps i'm using
[12:16] <Josh__> one second
[12:16] <Darkside> ones that don't work: Sirf Star III, Venus
[12:16] <Darkside> (i think they may be the same thing)
[12:17] <fsphil> newer venus modules might work
[12:17] <javi_trackuino> i might be a bit late to the conversation, but this works too: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9133
[12:17] <Darkside> go with uBlox if you can
[12:17] <Darkside> seriously
[12:17] <fsphil> I think mattltm is sending me one for testing
[12:17] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: oh?
[12:17] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: trackuino... is that the APRS beacon?
[12:17] <javi_trackuino> yeah
[12:17] <Darkside> you wrote that?
[12:18] <javi_trackuino> well, aparta from the fact that 50% is code from existing libraries, you can say that :)
[12:18] <Laurenceb> ok
[12:18] <Laurenceb> ssh -T git@github.comAgent admitted failure to sign using the key.
[12:18] <Laurenceb> Permission denied (publickey).
[12:18] <Darkside> nice
[12:18] Action: Laurenceb RAGEEE
[12:18] <BrainDamage> Laurenceb: system update broke ssh?
[12:18] <Laurenceb> i see to have solved the passphrase thing
[12:18] <BrainDamage> altho it's kinda weird
[12:19] <Darkside> i need to look at the schematic, how you did the audio generation into the radiometrix module
[12:19] <BrainDamage> see if ssh-add -L lists the key
[12:19] <javi_trackuino> we've been using the Venus GPS and it works over 18.000 as far as our tests go
[12:19] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: cool
[12:19] <Laurenceb> yes it does
[12:19] <fsphil> the firmware was changed to support the higher altitudes iirc
[12:19] <Darkside> i still like the uBlox ones tho :P
[12:19] <Darkside> polled mode is noice
[12:20] <fsphil> the early ones definitely don't work
[12:20] <javi_trackuino> i asked their technical support, a guy called Oliver told me they should work. That was a year ago. Maybe earlier versions didn't.
[12:20] <fsphil> I have an old one here I might try anyway, as a backup
[12:20] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: oh my god
[12:20] <Darkside> you're doing it without filtering?
[12:20] <javi_trackuino> But their newest firmware is on the sparkfun page, so...
[12:20] <Laurenceb> this makes so sense :(
[12:21] <Laurenceb> utterly broken
[12:21] <Darkside> that WORKS?
[12:21] <fsphil> Darkside, m1x1o is doing the same
[12:21] <Darkside> what kind of waveform are you feeding into the radiometrix?
[12:21] <fsphil> pwm straight into the radiometrix :)
[12:21] <Darkside> isn't it going to be putting out harmonics
[12:21] <javi_trackuino> the radiometrix HX1 has a low-pass filter
[12:21] <Darkside> but the first harmonic of 1200Hz
[12:21] <Darkside> isn't that bad?
[12:22] <javi_trackuino> and the PWM sampling is done at 62.5 KHz
[12:22] <Darkside> hmm
[12:22] <Josh__> sorry for the wait
[12:22] <Josh__> i'm using this gps in my payload
[12:22] <Josh__> http://www.trackershop-uk.com/TRACK-Pod+2+LiveMap+GPS+Tracker-p-59.html
[12:22] <Darkside> i'd still be inclined to put a low pass filter on it >_>
[12:22] <javi_trackuino> have you looked at their datasheet? they DO have a LPF on their block diagram
[12:23] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: yeah but it has a cutoff around 20KHz or something
[12:23] <Darkside> and its the first harmonic of the 1200Hz tone thats always worried me
[12:23] <Darkside> maybe with PWM is isn't much of an issue
[12:23] <Darkside> i'll try it someday and convince myself
[12:23] <javi_trackuino> you'll get a 2400 Hz harmonic even if you don't do PWM...
[12:23] <Darkside> yeah
[12:23] <javi_trackuino> the first harmonic due to PWM would be at 62.5 KHz
[12:24] <Darkside> hmm
[12:24] <Darkside> Josh__: that page tells us nothing
[12:24] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: well obviously it works :-)
[12:24] <Josh__> ok sorry
[12:24] <Darkside> so thats already proven me wrong
[12:24] <Darkside> Josh__: not your problem
[12:24] <Darkside> fault*
[12:24] <javi_trackuino> yeah, i'm not sure how much splatter there is to adjacent frequencies, but that should be taken care of by the HX1.
[12:24] <Darkside> we'd need the specs of the unit, to find out what gps chipset is in it
[12:24] <Darkside> i'm betting Sirf III though
[12:24] <Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/RLuzMG6c
[12:25] <Darkside> also Josh__ don't expect the gsm downlink to work at high altitudes
[12:25] <Darkside> but it should be finr to find it when it lands, presuming it has signal
[12:25] <Josh__> i wont. i know it'll break up and then i'm hoping it will start working again as it re-enters
[12:26] <BrainDamage> Laurenceb: what options do you use when generating the key?
[12:26] <Laurenceb> http://help.github.com/linux-set-up-git/
[12:26] <Darkside> Josh__: i can't find any info about what gps chipset it uses
[12:26] <Laurenceb> ssh-keygen -t rsa -C "your_email@youremail.com"
[12:26] <Josh__> so looking at the absolute pressure sensors a bit more, can you point me towards a little more information or a product about them?
[12:27] <fsphil> judging from the sound of some of the few aprs packets I've heard, I'm guessing some are using square waves
[12:27] <Josh__> i'll have a look in the documents. one sec
[12:27] <Darkside> fsphil: i wouldn't be surprised
[12:27] <BrainDamage> pretty straightforward :/
[12:27] <BrainDamage> Laurenceb: do dsa type keys work by chance?
[12:27] <Darkside> theoretically, with a square wave, shouldn't the fundamental (1200Hz) and first harmonic (2400Hz) have the same amplitude?
[12:27] <Darkside> so that shouldn't work!
[12:28] <BrainDamage> no
[12:28] <Laurenceb> how would i try that?
[12:28] <Darkside> maybe they don't use a square wave, but something like a 3-4 bit DAC
[12:28] <Darkside> so its not clean, but its better than a square wave
[12:28] <BrainDamage> pass -t dsa instead of -t rsa
[12:28] <fsphil> only if it was a perfect square wave
[12:28] <Darkside> fsphil: yeah
[12:29] <Darkside> i'd still be inclined to use a little resistor ladder DAC
[12:29] <fsphil> but yea it would be pretty close
[12:29] <Darkside> just to be nice
[12:29] <fsphil> would an RC filter work? just a resistor and capacitor?
[12:29] <Josh__> cant find any info on the shipset, sorry
[12:29] <Josh__> chipset*
[12:29] <Darkside> fsphil: well the problem is you can't filter out the first harmonic, because tyou need that frequency too
[12:29] <Darkside> the only way is to oversample, and do PWM, or use a better DAC system
[12:29] <fsphil> aah
[12:30] <Darkside> like, an actual DAC
[12:30] <fsphil> gotcha
[12:30] <BrainDamage> what are you trying to do?
[12:30] <Darkside> BrainDamage: we're thinking about how to generate 1200 baud FSK for APRS, and how you'd do it simply
[12:30] <Darkside> i'm thinking a 4-bit DAC with filtering would be fine
[12:31] <Darkside> have an interrupt running at a certain speed, running through a cosine table, and change the interrupt speed to change the output frequency
[12:31] <fsphil> oversampling might be the handiest, if it's fast enough the radiometrix's filter would do the job
[12:31] <Josh__> do you think something like this would record up to 100,000 ft heights? http://www.dealport.co.uk/en/products/6%252din%252d1-Multifunction-Mini-Digital-Altimeter-%252b-Compass,-Weather.html
[12:31] <Darkside> well given the pressure up tehre isn't quite linear, i doubt it
[12:31] <fsphil> just use the pwm as an analogue out then
[12:32] <Darkside> Josh__: most of us make our own flight computers
[12:32] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: the reason why I chose PWM over the ladder is to have fewer components. Plus, PWM gives you 8 bits straight away...
[12:33] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: i need to do some calculations to convince myself of it :P but if you've got it working, then it seems fine :P
[12:33] <Darkside> i might run your code on an arduino and take a look at the signal on a CRO at soe point
[12:33] <BrainDamage> pwm gives 8 bit only with good filtering
[12:33] <jgrahamc> Josh__: I doubt that altimeter would do anything useful at that height. The specs say up to 29,500 ft
[12:34] <Josh__> i see....but that sounds as if a vast amount of intelligence is needed....what do you say to the people who are doing it first time? i'd love to learn but time has pushed me to find an alternative or pre-made option
[12:34] <Darkside> Josh__: finding a pre-made option that will work at those altitudes is near impossible
[12:34] <fsphil> most first timers build their own too :)
[12:34] <Josh__> ok so do you build it into your arduino?
[12:34] <Darkside> and there aren'y really any kits for doing this, because we all want people who are considering HAB flights to put the effort into making a telemetry system, so they have a good think about what they're abotu to do
[12:35] <Darkside> making it too easy makes it too easy for people to make big mistakes, that can fuck it up for the rest of us
[12:35] <Darkside> to be blunt
[12:36] <Josh__> trust me we've put alot of effort into the project and have tried to use the arduino kits and such but are having a hard time figuring it out so looking for an alternative
[12:36] <Josh__> the other parts of the project we've put loads of thought into (www.joshingtalk.com)
[12:36] <Darkside> mmm
[12:36] <Darkside> i've been considering writing an article about why we don't use pre-made systes
[12:36] <Darkside> and why we choose what we choose for our telemetry systems
[12:36] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: take a look at: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PmUNu_DYhCFOzwYe1F19VZnq9lVfPF5iMGe3GtrhdJM, top is filtered, bottom is unfiltered. The filter was just a RC with 2800 Hz cutoff. There is a 62.5 KHz fundamental? yes, but I think it's quite harmless.
[12:37] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: is that after the filter in the radiometrix?
[12:37] <Darkside> because thats NICE
[12:37] <Darkside> very nice
[12:37] <javi_trackuino> no, that's a RC filter on a breadboard
[12:37] <jgrahamc> I'd echo Darkside's comments. Doing a HAB flight is possible, but not something you'd just decide to do in a hurry. I spent about 9 months working on and off on my first flight (took that long partly because I have kids that take up time).
[12:37] <javi_trackuino> 2800 Hz cutoff
[12:37] <Darkside> ahh
[12:38] <Darkside> whats the filter in teh radiometrix then?
[12:38] <jgrahamc> I think it's very important to take it slow and build and test all the component of your HAB project before launching. So many things can go wrong.
[12:38] <jgrahamc> But you'll also find that people here will help you out.
[12:38] <Josh__> we've spent 7 months now on it
[12:38] <Darkside> Josh__: but if you haven't got a reliably telemetry system, you aren't ready for launch
[12:38] <jgrahamc> My project was based on Arduino with a small circuit board containing the transmitter and GPS
[12:38] <Laurenceb> ah works
[12:38] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: I have no idea what the LPF in the radiometrix looks like. But this is how the received signal looks like: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pPV_PMddqu9eGmpsBWef6pnq9lVfPF5iMGe3GtrhdJM?feat=embedwebsite
[12:38] <Laurenceb> dont know what the problem was
[12:39] <Darkside> many people here started out with arduino shield based payloads, then moved to custom boards
[12:39] <Laurenceb> QT creator is nice
[12:39] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: thats very nice
[12:39] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: you can see there that the 2400Hz signal is noticably lower amplitude than the 1200Hz one, but if it works
[12:39] <jgrahamc> What's the current state of your project Josh__ ? What do you have assembled and what's missing? I'm sure there are people here who can help out.
[12:39] <Josh__> i realise that
[12:39] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: you've proven it to me now :-) thanks!
[12:39] <Josh__> ok i'll tell you where we're up to
[12:39] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: yeah, the 2400 Hz is lower, which means there is some LPF indeed.
[12:40] <Darkside> now i need to find 145.175MHz radioemtrix modules
[12:40] <Darkside> or get a bunch of them custom made
[12:40] <Darkside> man, if i re-arrange my mininut board, it could easily do APRS :-)
[12:40] <Josh__> we have got the payload, string, balloon, parachute, 3xcameras, portable battery pack if needed, handwarmers, gps tracker
[12:41] <Josh__> we now have everything apart from an altimeter setup and/or the arduino setup
[12:41] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/DSC_4087.jpg
[12:41] <jgrahamc> Do you have an idea of how heavy the payload is at this point?
[12:41] <Josh__> we are in the testing stages and looking to launch end of august
[12:41] <Darkside> Josh__: bu your GPS tracker won't give you positions above a fe wkm
[12:41] <Darkside> do you want to be able to track it when it is at altitude?
[12:41] <Josh__> that's fine.....we are relying on the predictor to be fairly accurate
[12:42] <Josh__> the payload will only be 800g
[12:42] <Darkside> Josh__: it isnt always :P
[12:42] <Josh__> as it's a 800g balloon
[12:42] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: wow, what are those?
[12:42] <Darkside> Josh__: what country are ytou launching from?
[12:42] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: they are my mininut boards
[12:42] <Josh__> launching from cambrdige in uk
[12:42] <M0JSN> Darkside: they look great :D
[12:42] <Darkside> they are a telemetry payload, in a 5x5cm PCB
[12:42] <jgrahamc> I see. I assume you'd talked to the CUSF guys about launching from there?
[12:43] <Darkside> though it does need a GPS attacked, and antenna and battery, etc
[12:43] <Darkside> attached*
[12:43] <Josh__> yes i have talked with jon and they have agreed to help us with the launch
[12:43] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: are you doing PWM in those, too?
[12:43] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: nope, thats sending SSB RTTY
[12:43] <jgrahamc> Cool.
[12:43] <jgrahamc> The balloon you are using is an 800g Kaymont?
[12:43] <Josh__> yes
[12:43] <Josh__> with an 800g payload
[12:43] <Darkside> but, given what you've shown me, if I can get 145.175MHz modules, i could make it do APRS :-)
[12:43] <M0JSN> I'm jon by the way Josh__ , just at work so different nick :)
[12:43] <Josh__> ahhhhh I see :D
[12:44] <Darkside> the problem is getting those modules, they have to custom make those modules
[12:44] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: the only thing you need to care for is not spending much time in the PWM interrupt. If you want to go all the way up to 62.5 KHz, you only have 256 cycles to do AFSK. The ISR in the trackuino right now spends 150 cycles on the PWM.
[12:44] <M0JSN> Darkside: RM will make modules on custom frequencies
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[12:45] <Darkside> M0JSN: but what is the minimum order quantity?
[12:45] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: did you do that in asm?
[12:46] <jgrahamc> I'm not an expert on the balloon lift, but IIRC Kaymont usually recommends a much smaller payload with the smaller balloons. I assume someone like M0JSN can speak to that.
[12:46] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: no, C. but I did look at the generated assembly. I found out that "i / 2" produces smaller code than "i >> 1", among other gcc WTFs
[12:46] <Josh__> i used the balloon burst calculator and it reckons it can acheive over 29000ft with an ascent rate of about 5mps
[12:46] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: haha nice
[12:46] <Darkside> very good job though
[12:46] <jgrahamc> Fair enough.
[12:47] <Darkside> i'll now see about making a small APRS tracker :-)
[12:47] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: besides, a lot of time is spent in pushing and popping registers, and you can't optimize that...
[12:47] <Darkside> so with those 100mW modules, i get 21 hours of battery life from a 6V 3Ah pack
[12:47] <Josh__> i'm also wondering if anyone would like to piggy back their arduino onto my payload as well if we cant find a solution
[12:47] <Darkside> Josh__: CUSF have drop-in trackers
[12:47] <Elwell> Darkside: with the option of EU frequencu please (144.800)
[12:48] <Josh__> hmmm interesting
[12:48] <Josh__> do you know how heavy they are?
[12:48] <Darkside> Josh__: but they are for their payloads :P
[12:48] <Darkside> but maybe if tyou ask nice
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[12:48] <Josh__> aahhh ok
[12:48] <Josh__> i could offer an incentive
[12:48] <Josh__> :)
[12:48] <Darkside> Elwell: well it'll be for whatever radiometrix module you can get
[12:48] <javi_trackuino> ON another topic: do you guys order balloons from Kaymont regularly? How do you get in touch with the guys? I wrote them through their web forms, email,... nothing.
[12:49] <Elwell> HX1?
[12:49] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: my current design flaw is i'm using the analog input pins to talk to the radiometrix, so i can't do PWM on them. thats just a layout limitation
[12:49] <Darkside> Elwell: TX1H in my case
[12:49] <Darkside> but yeah, they have the same pinout
[12:49] <Darkside> those boards work with anything that uses the standard NTX2 pinout
[12:49] <fsphil> radiometrix will do any frequency, but for ones they haven't done before they change quite a lot for development and testing
[12:49] <Darkside> fsphil: i'm sure they've done 145.175
[12:49] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: you could do software PWM by interrupting on pwm edges, but THAT would be overkill
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[12:50] <fsphil> not sure, they wouldn't tell me :) I only know they offer 144.800
[12:50] <Darkside> and 144.390MHz
[12:50] <Darkside> which is what i have
[12:50] <fsphil> they give me a quote for the non-standard ones and I decided not to bother :)
[12:50] <Darkside> heh
[12:50] <Darkside> well, i might see about re-designing the board to have the option to do APRS
[12:50] <Josh__> M0JSN: I will send you an email over the next few days updating you on our current progress
[12:51] <fsphil> it worked out cheaper to by a second-hand vx-7r :)
[12:51] <Darkside> i.e. shift the control pins for the transmit module to pins that can do PWM
[12:51] <Josh__> i have to go now but thanks for the help Darkside: and everyone else
[12:51] <jgrahamc> Josh__: I suggest you send a note to the ukhas mailing list outlining where you are with your project and ask for advice. Probably get lots of useful responses.
[12:51] <Darkside> so you can either use th eresistors and do SSB RTTY, or bridge one of the resistors and do the PWM APRS
[12:51] <Darkside> i want to make this board as flexible as possible
[12:51] <Elwell> Darkside: http://www.radiometrix.com/content/hx1 "Frequency:
[12:51] <Elwell> 144.390MHz, 144.800MHz, 145.175, 151.300MHz & 169MHz band
[12:51] <Josh__> Thanks jgrahamc, i will do tht also
[12:51] <Darkside> Elwell: oh hellooooo
[12:52] <Josh__> Thanks again everybody and have a good day!
[12:52] <Darkside> this is the 300mW one, right
[12:52] <Darkside> yep
[12:52] <fsphil> ah ha
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[12:52] <Darkside> ok, so that'll have even less battery life
[12:52] <fsphil> they wouldn't tell me that, and it's right there on their website
[12:52] <Elwell> fraid so
[12:52] <Darkside> but thats cool
[12:52] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: if you want to take a look, this is a board that a fellow ham designed for the trackuino firmware: http://www.trackuino.org/2011/07/trackuino-shield.html
[12:52] <Darkside> Elwell: what kind of batt life do you get?
[12:52] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: you too
[12:52] <Elwell> Darkside: infinite as I don't have one :-)
[12:52] <Darkside> lol
[12:52] <Elwell> (but want something for car)
[12:53] <Darkside> Elwell: well with my PCBs, it'd be freaking tiny
[12:53] <Elwell> and alternative is something like an opentracker
[12:53] <Darkside> fully loaded (but excluding GPS and battery) my boards weigh 15g
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[12:54] <javi_trackuino> I recall some guy sent me a picture of this tracker... He had quite a clever design. He put the HX1 on the bottom and the AVR / regulators / etc. on the top
[12:54] <javi_trackuino> It was tiny
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[12:54] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: ooh
[12:54] <javi_trackuino> let me look it up
[12:54] <Darkside> yea i'm sure it could be made a LOT smaller than what i've done
[12:54] <Darkside> but i was limited to 2-sided boards, and i wanted other sensors and things
[12:55] <fsphil> javi_trackuino, that's my plan for my next board
[12:55] <Darkside> and i'm still a relative n00b to pcb layout
[12:55] <fsphil> assuming eagle doesn't turn evil on me again
[12:55] <Darkside> which is why i'm doing the PCB layout for a satellite payload starting next week >_>
[12:55] <fsphil> yay!
[12:56] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: http://www.highrf.com/Rockets/APRS%20Mini.bmp - you can't see the HX1 becuse it's on the bottom side :)
[12:56] <Darkside> bmp, reeeeeeealy
[12:56] <javi_trackuino> fsphil: it's defintely smaller that way!
[12:56] <Darkside> holy shit
[12:56] <javi_trackuino> yeah, it's somehow generated by eagle or something
[12:56] <Darkside> NICE
[12:57] <javi_trackuino> yeah... complete with ICSP headers and all :)
[12:57] <Darkside> ahhh, that connector is the one for thhat ublox gps
[12:57] <Darkside> EM306 or whatever it is
[12:57] <Darkside> i'm using them on my next board design
[12:57] <Darkside> thats certainly the way to go
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[12:57] <Darkside> wow, thats very very nice though
[12:58] <Darkside> you could easilt fit more stuff on that board, could add a SMD temp sensor, maybe somethign more
[12:58] <javi_trackuino> I think there is even room to stick a Venus GPS in. But it comes in a BGA package, which is a pain to solder. That would no longer be DIY.
[12:58] <Darkside> i'd use an external gps i think
[12:59] <Darkside> just blu-tack it to the top of the radiometrix module :D
[12:59] <Darkside> shenki: http://www.highrf.com/Rockets/APRS%20Mini.bmp
[12:59] <Darkside> i just got 1UP'd
[12:59] <Darkside> now i need to somehow beat that :P
[12:59] <Laurenceb> can anyone help me with proxy server issues?
[13:00] <M0JSN> sorry Darkside
[13:00] <M0JSN> we (CUSF) we quoted 10 minimum order quantity
[13:00] <Laurenceb> http://qgroundcontrol.org/about <- so ive got that compiled and running XD
[13:00] <M0JSN> for NTX2s on a custom frequency
[13:00] <M0JSN> I assume the 2m modules are going to be similar
[13:00] <Laurenceb> but it cant handle being behined a proxy :/
[13:02] <Elwell> Darkside / javi_trackuino looking at his site he's also working with a baloo too
[13:02] <Darkside> ooh
[13:02] <fsphil> sweet -- it's like he read my mind, before I had the idea javi_trackuino :)
[13:02] <Darkside> well, that is interesting :-)
[13:02] <Elwell> ah, for quadrocopter
[13:02] <Darkside> fsphil: well, i plan on copying that design at least partially
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[13:03] <fsphil> my own will be very similar - even the 45 degree angle of the avr :)
[13:03] <fsphil> though I'll have more headers
[13:03] <Darkside> so howabouts we collaborate on the pcb :P
[13:03] <Darkside> actually maybe that willbe hard, becaue i'm not gonna be using eagle
[13:03] <fsphil> ooh sounds like a plan
[13:03] <Darkside> eagle can go DIAF
[13:03] <fsphil> true
[13:03] <fsphil> and I'm still an eagle idiot
[13:04] <Elwell> is there a decent alternative?
[13:04] <Darkside> ALTIUM DESIGNER
[13:04] <Darkside> but its not free
[13:04] <Darkside> what it is, however, is awesome
[13:04] <Darkside> and easily pirated
[13:04] <Darkside> oh shite, thats why i didn't get the HX1 module.
[13:05] <Darkside> it doesn't have an inbuilt regulator like the NTX2 and TX1H's
[13:05] <Darkside> thats a pain
[13:05] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: on the battery thing you asked me a few lines above, I'm getting 14 hours with two 900 mAh LiIon cells (7.4V). Thats the AVR + Venus + HX1 sending 1 APRS packet every minute.
[13:05] <Darkside> javi_trackuino: okies
[13:06] <Darkside> it means i'm going to need a separate regulator just for the transmitter, OR run the entire board at 5V, and hope the 3.3v gps talks to teh AVR okay
[13:06] <javi_trackuino> I guess 1.5 hours per 100 mAh or so.
[13:07] <Darkside> mmm
[13:07] <Darkside> anyway design challenges are fun!
[13:07] <javi_trackuino> Oh yes, the AVR will take 3.3V as a '1'. The Vil is lower than that.
[13:07] <Darkside> the AVR can take 3.3v TTL input
[13:07] <Darkside> the GPS will break though with 5V ttl
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[13:07] <Darkside> so you just use a voltage divider made from tiny resistors
[13:08] <Darkside> 0603s or something
[13:08] <Darkside> hmmmmmm
[13:08] <javi_trackuino> Darkside: I used the diode method here: http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/65
[13:08] <Darkside> you've got me wanting to work on this now fsphil :P
[13:08] <Darkside> zener diodes?
[13:09] <Darkside> nope, somethign else, but picture isn't loading
[13:09] <javi_trackuino> But usually 3.3V devices will have clamp diodes pulled both high and low, by putting a series resistor might as well work.
[13:09] <Darkside> anyway, theres ways around it
[13:09] <javi_trackuino> by -> so
[13:09] <Darkside> you've got me interested now though :-)
[13:10] <Darkside> i think this'll be my next project
[13:10] <Darkside> NanoNut
[13:11] <Darkside> aaaaaanyway, i'll be back in a bit, goign to pick up some gear from another persons house
[13:11] <Darkside> back later!
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[13:21] <Upu> Afternoon
[13:21] <NigeyS> hey upu
[13:22] <Upu> no lauches today ? :)
[13:23] <NigeyS> hehe nooo
[13:25] <fsphil> awww
[13:26] <Upu> right this damn code
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[13:26] <Upu> fsphil I assume at some point in your code you have your longditude in a float like 51.82181 ?
[13:27] <Upu> what do you use to get it into a string ?
[13:27] <fsphil> integer all the way Upu
[13:27] <Upu> damn wrong answer :)
[13:27] <fsphil> but I have code for that
[13:27] <Upu> no I was beginning to go that way
[13:27] <fsphil> does the arduino environment have modf()?
[13:28] <Upu> no idea
[13:28] <fsphil> I've code to make a string from a float, but it uses modf to split the float up
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[13:28] <Upu> you use ints
[13:28] <Upu> how do you avoid padding issues ?
[13:28] <fsphil> there's a fixed number of digits after the decimal place
[13:29] <fsphil> so I print it like: %i.%06i
[13:29] <Upu> ok
[13:29] <Upu> rgr
[13:29] <Upu> so damn annoying that I have the number and can't just use it :)
[13:29] <Upu> I'll go back an see if I can int it all
[13:30] <M0JSN> having fun with arduinos and floats?
[13:30] <Upu> float to string
[13:32] <M0JSN> ah
[13:32] <Upu> going to review it with thoughts to making it all ints now
[13:32] <Upu> well long
[13:32] <Upu> ints don't work either
[13:33] <javi_trackuino> use longs and store microdegrees instead of floats
[13:36] <javi_trackuino> Upu: also, I think that you need to give the gcc linker a specific option so that you get sprintf to work with floats: http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=376937
[13:36] <Upu> ok thx just messing with doing it using ints now
[13:36] <Upu> looks positive
[13:37] <M0JSN> yeah you can make sprintf support floats
[13:37] <M0JSN> but there's no need really
[13:37] <fsphil> it's also HUGE
[13:37] <M0JSN> yeah
[13:37] <M0JSN> that too
[13:37] <Upu> actually keeping it int looks much simpler
[13:38] <javi_trackuino> ints are 16 bits in AVR, so watch that out
[13:38] <Upu> yeah
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[13:40] <javi_trackuino> is this for latitudes and longitudes? as long as you don't have to operate with them, I guess you can use one char for degrees and one int for 1/100ths of minutes.
[13:40] <Upu> see this is my issue
[13:40] <Upu> LONGDEC = 51.821807
[13:40] <javi_trackuino> Then, print that out with "%03d.%04d", degs, minsE2
[13:40] <Upu> so Iv'e done : long TEST=((float(LONGM)/60.0)+(float(LONGS)/3600.0))*1000000;
[13:41] <Upu> which makes TEST=821807
[13:41] <Upu> test is a long
[13:41] <Upu> but when I sprintf it I get -30159
[13:42] <M0JSN> what's your sprintf format string?
[13:42] <Upu> %i.%06i
[13:42] <javi_trackuino> instead of 1000000 use 1000000L
[13:42] <javi_trackuino> oh wait
[13:42] <javi_trackuino> that's the problem
[13:42] <Elwell> int16 limit?
[13:42] <javi_trackuino> use %i.%06li
[13:43] <Upu> sprintf doesn't do i
[13:43] <Upu> ah
[13:43] <M0JSN> %d for signed
[13:43] <Upu> I suck at programming :/
[13:43] <M0JSN> %ld for long signed
[13:43] <Upu> sorry
[13:43] <M0JSN> I think
[13:43] <Upu> yay we have winner
[13:43] <M0JSN> :)
[13:44] <Upu> much appreciate guys
[13:44] <M0JSN> what did you use in the end?
[13:44] <Upu> ong TEST=((float(LONGM)/60.0)+(float(LONGS)/3600.0))*1000000L;
[13:44] <Upu> long TEST=((float(LONGM)/60.0)+(float(LONGS)/3600.0))*1000000L;
[13:45] <Upu> sprintf(TELEMETRYSTRING,"$$AVA,%i.%06li",int(LONGDEC),TEST);
[13:45] <fsphil> heck of a calculation lol
[13:45] <M0JSN> cool :)
[13:45] <Upu> I didn't know %li worked thx
[13:45] <Upu> going to try tidy it all up now
[13:45] <Upu> its all broken down line by line at the moment :)
[13:46] <fsphil> make sure you code handles positions between -1 and 0, either in latitide or longitude
[13:46] <javi_trackuino> you can optimize it further by multiplying it first, then dividing. That way you can get rid of floating point arithmetic
[13:47] <javi_trackuino> ie:
[13:47] <javi_trackuino> long TEST = LONGM * 1000000L / 60 + LONGS * 1000000 / 3600;
[13:48] <Upu> aye seems to work thanks
[13:55] <Upu> thats lovely
[13:55] <Upu> actually less code now
[13:55] <Upu> right going to feed it some real data
[13:58] <Upu> looks good
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[13:59] <Upu> thanks for the help
[13:59] <fsphil> you in the negatives yet?
[13:59] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/zrzLr7sH
[13:59] <javi_trackuino> glad it worked. C++ types are a pain
[13:59] <Upu> thats what it was doing before
[14:00] <Upu> now padding correctly now
[14:00] <Upu> going to work on the meridian bug now :)
[14:01] <Upu> good job I didn't launch this...
[14:01] <javi_trackuino> lol
[14:01] <javi_trackuino> what's with the meridian bug?
[14:01] <Upu> see that paste bin
[14:01] <javi_trackuino> yeah, looking at it now
[14:01] <Upu> note at line 3 it crosses the prime meridian and goes E
[14:02] <Upu> the code doesn't amend the -ive sign
[14:02] <Upu> basically crosses from - to + longitude
[14:02] <javi_trackuino> ah right
[14:02] <Upu> I assume I have an equatorial bug as well but as I'm not in Kenya it shouldn't be an issue
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[14:04] <javi_trackuino> well the same fix will apply to both i guess
[14:05] <Upu> so the trackuino is yours ?
[14:08] <javi_trackuino> ignoring the fact that some code is taken from here and there, you can say that :)
[14:14] <Upu> I like the design
[14:14] <Upu> I tried that once by my Eagle design skills are slightly worse than my coding skills
[14:15] <fsphil> know that feeling
[14:15] <Darkside> fuuuuuuck eagle
[14:15] <javi_trackuino> i hate eagle
[14:15] <Darkside> this sat payload group has been using eagle so far
[14:16] <javi_trackuino> i hate especially when you have to design your own parts
[14:16] <Darkside> but since they've done fuck all on the eagle design so far, i think i can easily switch them to altium
[14:17] <javi_trackuino> altium huh? i'll have to try that
[14:17] <Darkside> its not free
[14:17] <Darkside> not by a long shot
[14:17] <Upu> ok simulation running with new code
[14:17] <javi_trackuino> how's the meridian crossing?
[14:18] <Upu> tell you when it gets there :)
[14:18] <Upu> currently at a pseudo 11850 meters
[14:18] <Upu> crosses the median at 22508
[14:18] <Upu> awesome accent rate though, 300 meters a sec :)
[14:18] <Upu> ascent even
[14:20] <Darkside> http://www.altium.com/files/training/Module%2020%20-%203D%20Mechanical%20CAD.pdf
[14:20] <Darkside> this is why i want to use altium for this project
[14:21] <javi_trackuino> wow
[14:21] <Upu> stil median bug
[14:21] <Upu> ok brb :)
[14:21] <Darkside> i need to produce a 3d model in solidworks format
[14:21] <javi_trackuino> enclosures that match the board :o
[14:21] <Darkside> and altium will get me most of the way there
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[14:25] <Darkside> hey juxta
[14:25] <juxta> hey Darkside
[14:25] <Darkside> you got home fast
[14:25] <Darkside> or aren't you home
[14:25] <juxta> haha
[14:25] <juxta> not home yet
[14:26] <juxta> in the city now, picking a friend up
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[14:29] <Upu> Anyone know how to specify a blank in a character constant, i.e LONGSIGN='-' however once it crosses the median I want LONGSIGN='' but it won't allow that
[14:29] <Upu> does the tracker accept '+' ?
[14:30] <M0JSN> should do
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[14:30] <M0JSN> try it
[14:30] <fsphil> use a string
[14:30] <Upu> duh
[14:30] <M0JSN> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/test.php
[14:31] <Upu> ta
[14:33] <hibby> http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/ele/2460031644.html <== this country is mad
[14:34] <javi_trackuino> Upu, yeah use a string like fsphil says, or if you're worried about strings eating up your SRAM, use two different sprintfs depending on the hemisphere, one with the - and another without.
[14:34] <Upu> yes thats what I was considering
[14:34] <Upu> no I'm ok for RAM I think
[14:35] <Upu> tracker supports +
[14:36] <Upu> I am now fine if I go over the equator too :)
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[14:36] <javi_trackuino> you never know where it'll end up
[14:37] <Upu> Well unless it gets snagged on a flight going to Kenya I don't think its going to get there
[14:37] <fsphil> I'm nowhere near the meridian but my fear was if someone else used my code :)
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[14:41] <Upu> $$AVA,2,14:26:35,+51.809944,-0.000713,22508,10,0,0*96E7
[14:41] <Upu> much better
[14:42] <SamSilver> well done
[14:42] <Upu> though I'm just excluding the + as its just a character it doesn't need to transmit
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[14:48] <Elwell> so long as its escaped properly so it doesn't get smashed to a space...
[14:49] <Elwell> (on the website part of tracker)
[15:05] <Upu> does anyone mind if I simulate a launch on Spacenear.us
[15:05] <Upu> I'm going to be running a simulation but uploading to check if it goes ok
[15:06] <Upu> I guess not
[15:06] <Upu> I can always delete it afterwards
[15:06] <M0JSN> go for it
[15:06] <Upu> ok this isn't a launch don't get excited
[15:07] <Upu> going to put this on the Wiki afterwards
[15:07] <ruku> Goodness.
[15:08] <Upu> hmm
[15:08] <Upu> simulation data broken 1 sec :)
[15:09] <Upu> there we go sorry started at the middle of the data
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[15:13] <ruku> I'm just looking at the spacenear.us site
[15:14] <Upu> yeah
[15:14] <ruku> What's the deal with the radio towers? O:
[15:14] <Upu> those are the recievers
[15:14] <Upu> the people who listen in
[15:15] <fsphil> now if only I had an actual tower
[15:15] <Upu> yeah :)
[15:15] <ruku> What are they listening for?
[15:15] <ruku> PSK? AX-25?
[15:15] <Upu> depends on the flight but RTTY
[15:15] <Upu> 50 baud
[15:15] <Upu> 300 baud
[15:15] <Upu> mainly
[15:16] <ruku> Specific packets then?
[15:16] <Upu> the payloads transmit a certain format of packet
[15:16] <Upu> i.e :
[15:16] <Upu> $$AVA,47,15:09:16,52.200512,-0.100626,5312,10,0,0*1B76
[15:17] <Upu> just trying to find the page for you 1 sec
[15:18] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[15:18] <Upu> also have a read of http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[15:20] <ruku> That's totally fascinating!
[15:21] <Upu> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/habtest
[15:21] <javi_trackuino> Upu: how bit is the network of receivers outsite UK?
[15:21] <javi_trackuino> bit -> big
[15:22] <Upu> well most of our flights at max range can get into middle germany but we only have 2 regular listeners outside mainland UK
[15:22] <Upu> fsphil in Ireland and dutch-mill in Amsterdamn
[15:22] <Upu> you should be able to hear the RTTY on that ustream ruku
[15:22] <Upu> thats whats transmitting it
[15:23] <Upu> off air
[15:23] <Upu> hmm 1sec
[15:23] <Upu> ret that
[15:23] <Upu> try that
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> Also some in australia and the US
[15:23] <Upu> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/habtest
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> But they rarely pick up UK flightts.
[15:24] <javi_trackuino> nor spanish ones
[15:25] <Upu> odd ascent rate
[15:26] <Upu> lets see if it makes it across the meridian :) Thats about 20000m
[15:26] <javi_trackuino> why did it go lower pitch all of a sudden?
[15:27] <Upu> the sun just came out and warmed the NTX2 up :)
[15:27] <Upu> I was wondering that myself
[15:27] <Upu> just retuned
[15:27] <javi_trackuino> odd :D
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[15:28] <SpeedEvil> Climb rate seems a tad out.
[15:28] <Upu> yeah not sure why graph is ok
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[15:30] <Upu> this is just a replay of one of Icarus's missions
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[15:33] <SpeedEvil> ah
[15:39] <Upu> bingo it just crossed the prime meridian
[15:39] <fsphil> there where a few french stations on the tracker a while back, not sure if they where planning a launch there or tracking one in the UK
[15:42] <Upu> when this is done I might pass the simulation through the old buggy code for comparison
[15:43] <Upu> oh you've been doing some work fsphil :)
[15:43] <Upu> wow
[15:44] <Upu> as soon as the sun goes in the frequency drops really quick
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[15:47] <Upu> wonder if he felt he was going to loose this one ? :)
[15:54] <fsphil> yea it's very picky about temperature
[15:55] <Upu> yup that was close to going in the drink :)
[15:56] <Upu> - altitudes causes a small bug
[15:56] <Upu> goes to 65535
[15:57] <fsphil> yea the last few are negative
[15:58] <Upu> ah
[15:58] <Upu> %u
[15:58] <Upu> duh
[15:59] <fsphil> lol
[16:01] <Upu> fixed
[16:01] <fsphil> hope nobody uses an avr integer if they're trying to get above 65.5km
[16:01] <Upu> well
[16:01] <Upu> good luck with that alititude
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[16:03] <fsphil> rockoon :)
[16:04] <fsphil> I don't think that'll ever work
[16:04] <fsphil> at least not with a useful payload
[16:04] <Upu> ok
[16:05] <Upu> running simulation through the buggy code
[16:05] <fsphil> get ready for a squiggly map
[16:05] <SpeedEvil> With a slow-burning stabilised - or even rotating - rocket - it's pretty trivial
[16:05] <Upu> so we get a nice picture for the why you want to test your code page
[16:05] <fsphil> good idea
[16:05] <Upu> lol its already no where near Cambridge :)
[16:06] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, why has nobody done it? :)
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Making slow-burning rockets isn't quite trivial
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> Also, you have to point it
[16:11] <fsphil> what's the legality of launching a rocket from a balloon in the uk?
[16:11] <Upu> illegal
[16:11] <fsphil> bah
[16:11] <Upu> check the tracker out fsphil
[16:11] <Upu> :)
[16:12] <fsphil> it's empty?
[16:12] <Upu> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ ?
[16:12] <fsphil> ah, just delayed
[16:12] <Upu> yeah delayed
[16:12] <Upu> and that kids is why padding is an issue....
[16:13] <fsphil> I've got some fixed point stuff I must put on the wiki
[16:13] <fsphil> give an example of doing it all with long ints
[16:14] <Upu> yeah in the end the code is quite tidy
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[16:18] <Upu> ho hum...
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[16:22] <rjharrison> Upu, are you doing some testing on the tracker there?
[16:22] <Upu> yeah
[16:23] <Upu> we are doing a page demonstrating padding bugs and merdian issues
[16:23] <rjharrison> Cool
[16:23] <Upu> this is your Icarus flight being passed through buggy code
[16:23] <Upu> it looked better when you did it
[16:24] <rjharrison> I think it would be cool to put a GPS text file and the correct KML file on the web somewhere. To test all the common issues
[16:24] <Upu> thats what I'm doing
[16:24] <Upu> going to do a howto on how to link something like Tro GPS in and feed your code some real data
[16:24] <Upu> your flight that landed near Folkstone was good as it passed over the prime merdian
[16:25] <Upu> and it shows up padding issues too
[16:25] <rjharrison> a flight in a circle around 0,0 + a few others :-)
[16:25] <rjharrison> Yep that was a disaster
[16:25] <Upu> good data to play with :)
[16:25] <Upu> but looked like a very long day drivign
[16:25] <Upu> driving
[16:38] <rjharrison> Yes it nearly killed me
[16:38] <rjharrison> Drove from huddersfield to cambridge at 4am and got home at 10pm via kent
[16:39] <Upu> not my idea of fun
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[16:40] <fsphil> yikes
[16:40] <Upu> impressive huh ?
[16:41] <fsphil> pesky wormholes :)
[16:43] <rjharrison> upu have you seen steves linux programs that take a kml and produce gps
[16:43] <rjharrison> strings
[16:43] <Upu> yeah think I saw that once but I don't have a linux box local
[16:43] <fsphil> there's a thought
[16:43] <Upu> I mean I could make a VM
[16:44] <fsphil> write a program that can embed a scripted flight within the program
[16:44] <rjharrison> http://www.robertharrison.org/svn/listing.php?repname=the-icarus-project&path=%2Ftesting-software%2Flinux%2F#path_testing-software_linux_
[16:44] <rjharrison> See the GPS gen and GPS emu progs
[16:44] <rjharrison> get takes a kml
[16:45] <Elwell> javi_trackuino: (network outside of UK) -- I can probably track if I'm given a weeks notice from 46N,6E
[16:45] <Elwell> but I need notice to get my arse in gear and fix the bloomin rotor\
[16:45] <Upu> I'll check it out
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[16:46] <javi_trackuino> Elwell: i was looking more for a permanent network like APRS for non-hams to use
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[16:54] <rjharrison> Upu, i'm off home
[16:54] <rjharrison> Have got radio in car
[16:54] <rjharrison> going to be on GB3yW
[16:54] <rjharrison> GB3YW
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[18:04] <NigelMoby> Evening peeps
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> Evening
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[18:14] <daveake> evening
[18:20] <NigelMoby> Hey speedy, Dave
[18:25] <daveake> Got pix of and from my balloon in the local rag :)
[18:26] <daveake> They got pretty much all the details wrong, mind!
[18:26] <Elwell> daveake: did you give them a copy-n-pasteable press release tho
[18:27] <daveake> Nope. Obviously where I went wrong
[18:27] <daveake> Actually they did better than I thought
[18:27] <fsphil> yea, expecting a reporter to research. psssh
[18:27] <daveake> LOL
[18:27] <NigelMoby> Lol
[18:28] <Elwell> if you want them to say X, then give them X and nothing else
[18:28] <Elwell> URL of said rag? (lets see these pics then)
[18:28] <daveake> I just had a 5 minute phone interview.
[18:29] <daveake> Not online as far as I can see.
[18:29] <daveake> I've scanned the article and put on my FB page
[18:30] <fsphil> hmm.. apparently and spontaneously my sound card has disappeared. which is odd, as it's onboard
[18:30] <daveake> 2 big pix of the launch and 1 tiny one from space!
[18:30] <NigelMoby> My nic used to do that Phil
[18:30] <fsphil> will reboot later
[18:31] <daveake> They spelt my name 2 different ways
[18:31] <fsphil> before that, food!
[18:31] <NigelMoby> Foooooooood
[18:31] <daveake> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmfood
[18:35] <NigelMoby> Hmm pondering the idea of launching Picochu in the evening....
[18:39] <daveake> To capture a sunset?
[18:40] <NigelMoby> Nah, its a tiny payload, less than 90grams.
[18:40] <daveake> ah
[18:41] <daveake> hence picochu ... duh!
[18:41] <NigelMoby> I'm thinking the balloons will last longer if there's not as much solar heating
[18:44] <daveake> Interesting. Any idea how much difference that might make?
[18:45] <NigelMoby> Nope, maybe none. It's a bit of an unknown with these foil balloons
[18:51] <ruku> Anyone here use something other than lithium batteries?
[18:51] <ruku> Lithium Ion perhaps?
[18:52] <NigelMoby> I'm using lipo on Picochu
[18:52] <NigelMoby> Iirc anything other than lithium doesn't do to well in the cold at high alt
[18:53] <ruku> I heard that too
[18:56] <ruku> I've got Li Ions infront of me
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[19:04] <daveake> There are lots of different types of Lithium. Not all are good at low temps. Li-ion I think are specced for about -20
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[19:05] <daveake> Just keep it warm :)
[19:06] <ruku> heee :p
[19:06] <ruku> it'll be warm enough
[19:07] <ruku> if anything, I've heard the problem isn't keeping things inside the payload warm
[19:07] <ruku> its keeping them cool :P
[19:07] <ruku> anyone have some payload temperature graphs?
[19:08] <daveake> I don't. I doubt the average payload ever gets below zero
[19:09] <daveake> Mine had about 4.5 watts which I think kept it nice and toasty
[19:09] <ruku> what about sitting around 12 mbar?
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[19:25] <rjharrison> Hi all
[19:25] <Upu> hey evening Rob
[19:25] <rjharrison> Some pics of the balloon issues from yeaterday
[19:25] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/sets/72157627195150134/
[19:25] <rjharrison> Yesterday
[19:25] <Upu> sorry was afk earlier
[19:26] <Upu> holes
[19:26] <rjharrison> yep
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> wow qgroundcontrol is awesome
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> we could use this for hab
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> it has a udp port open - itd be possible to interface with fldigi using a python script
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[19:39] <rjharrison> motley crew from yesterdays launch
[19:39] <rjharrison> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30721501@N05/5937426657/in/photostream
[19:40] <NigeyS> hey robbie
[19:40] <rjharrison> hey nigella hows it going
[19:41] <NigeyS> all good thank you rob :D
[19:41] <NigeyS> cool pics btw
[19:42] <Upu> and the girls are doing what on that pic exactly ? :)
[19:42] <rjharrison> They are too cool to be normal
[19:43] <Upu> lol
[19:43] <Upu> getting giddy I think is the term
[19:43] <NigeyS> haha
[19:43] <rjharrison> Well being a young man and all that it's understandable lol
[19:44] <Upu> look good shame onboard camera wasn't on
[19:44] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing fsphil and I have knocked that up if anyone wants to add to it help yourself
[19:44] <NigeyS> whats this auto off thing, that a chdk script problem or something ?
[19:45] <Upu> camera setting
[19:45] <NigeyS> ah
[19:45] <Laurenceb_> this is why they have crb checks
[19:45] <NigeyS> lol Laurence
[19:46] <Upu> haha
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[19:46] <NigeyS> ive had a crb check every year since i hit 18 as mum works for banardos with kids
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> huh
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> wait why does that involve you?!
[19:47] <NigeyS> anyone that lived at mums had to have it done
[19:47] <NigeyS> the kids stayed at the house
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> crazy
[19:48] <NigeyS> yup, even frequent visitors, like my sister, her husband, and my best m8, all had to be checked, banardos are very strict
[19:48] <Upu> guess they have to be
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[19:49] <NigeyS> yup, i dont mind, nothing to hide, been a good boy alll my life hehe
[19:49] <NigeyS> funny thing is, even though banardos are concidered a charity, every check they do costs them like £400
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> Me neither - but I'd never submit myself to a CRB check, on principle. Which is a shame.
[19:50] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, totally understandable
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what tiny fraction of offences CRB checks on 'randoms' with peripheral contact with children - stops.
[19:50] <Upu> very little I suspect
[19:51] <NigeyS> ^^
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[19:51] <Laurenceb_> hmf
[19:51] <Laurenceb_> i was going to say qgroundcontrol supported openstreetmap
[19:52] <rjharrison> nice guide.
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> but the menu seems to have broken
[19:52] <NigeyS> how is the uav coming along laurence ?
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> not too bad
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> think ive found the perfect ground station
[19:52] <Laurenceb_> we _have_ to try this with balloons
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[19:53] <NigeyS> excellent, looks good fom the link i saw yesterday, if a bit overcomplicated for my iccle brain hehe
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[19:53] <Laurenceb_> qt is really nice too
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> dev tools look good
[19:54] <NigeyS> oo
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[19:58] <NigeyS> btw Laurenceb is the uav a personal project, or work related ?
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> personal
[19:58] <NigeyS> oh cool
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> hmf the maps menu has vanished :-/
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> i want to try it with openstreetmap
[19:59] <NigeyS> eek, thats kinda not good
[19:59] <NigeyS> why not google maps ?
[19:59] <rjharrison> Laurenceb any pics/project page about
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> its in github
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> search for laurenceb
[20:00] <NigeyS> is there a limit on altitude in the uk for uavs then ?
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> over 60000 feet I think.
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> shhh
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> As long as you don't fly below that. :)
[20:01] <NigeyS> lol
[20:02] Action: SpeedEvil idly wonders how to get a valid CC with another name on it.
[20:03] <NigeyS> umm...
[20:04] <SpeedEvil> Not for serious naughtiness.
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> Just avoiding trivial links by companies.
[20:05] <NigeyS> ahh
[20:05] <Elwell> use the corporate card
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> that's a thought
[20:05] <SpeedEvil> A company - a proper one - isn't that expensive to setup.
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> By proper, I mean registered at companies house, rather than being proper in any other sense.
[20:06] <Elwell> don't use same bank as you do for personal stuff tho
[20:06] <NigeyS> oh i had a registered company once, cost £85 to set up iirc
[20:07] <Elwell> can chaorman / secretary (or whatever the 'official' jobs have to be ) be the same bod?
[20:07] <NigeyS> yups
[20:07] <NigeyS> chariman and company secretary
[20:08] <NigeyS> chairman*
[20:09] <Elwell> buggrit. *must* do this homework. no more iRC till done
[20:09] <NigeyS> hehe
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[20:12] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil
[20:12] <NigeyS> http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d44cc2a1174713e80f625c237f2bc16/compdetails
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:14] <NigeyS> although we didnt register for VAT .. that was a right pita
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> i used to be vat registered
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> unfortunately i was only allowed to buy construction materials
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[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:31] <fsphil> actually a pretty big hole rjharrison, I'm surprised it didn't come down quicker
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> hi rjharrison
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> nice to see you again
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> and hi fsphil
[20:32] <fsphil> hihi
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> today I have some more time than yesterday
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> who did fly Boston Spa 2 Infinity?
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> if I may ask
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> and hi rjharrison again
[20:43] <NigeyS> hey lunar
[20:43] <NigeyS> Laurenceb, howcome ?
[20:46] <junderwood> Is there anyone around who can upload payload XMLs to the tracker?
[20:46] <Randomskk> I can upload to habitat, but not robertharrison :P
[20:46] <Randomskk> have you used the exciting new xml generator?
[20:46] <junderwood> I tried it. It hung :(
[20:47] <Randomskk> :|
[20:47] <junderwood> wasn't very exciting
[20:47] <Randomskk> hanging sounds pretty boring
[20:48] <junderwood> Is habitat anywhere near going live?
[20:48] <Laurenceb_> oops i broke qgroundcontrol :(
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> didnt take long
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> Cache Engine DID NOT TimeOut Cache engine BEGIN WAIT Killed
[20:49] <Randomskk> junderwood: it has working google maps
[20:49] <Randomskk> but the web ui still needs polish
[20:49] <Randomskk> http://habitat.habhub.org/testing-web/demo.html
[20:50] <NigeyS> habitat will replace spacenear at some point ?
[20:50] <Randomskk> when it's done :P
[20:50] Action: NigeyS cracks the whip
[20:50] <NigeyS> :p
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> cool Randomskk
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> the GAGA-1 and XABEN trajectories!
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[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk don't delete that
[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> please
[20:52] <junderwood> Randomskk, looks nice.
[20:52] <Randomskk> I don't think we're gonna delete anything
[20:53] <Randomskk> junderwood: DanielRichman did all the web interface stuff (and also most of the python backend stuff)
[20:53] <Randomskk> it's getting there.
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> yay
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[20:53] <Randomskk> the backend is mostly all done, really. a few minor things left to play with and some stability/optimisation/bug fixing
[20:53] <Randomskk> mostly the remaining work is on making a nice web ui
[20:53] <DanielRichman> that's not totally true, Randomskk wrote most of the archive and parser which do the Work
[20:53] <Randomskk> https://github.com/ukhas/habitat/graphs/impact
[20:54] <Randomskk> though that's really a bit misleading as most of the really large commits are autogenerated docs
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[20:54] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: I'm baking! some bread! but once that's done I'm gonna play with threading the archive sink again
[20:55] <DanielRichman> :P. Re UI: that's called demo.html for a reason. It was written just because I wanted to see something shiny, and to test the sort of back end javascript 'library' that powers getting the data from habitat
[20:55] <Randomskk> I think that could really speed things up. couch is designed for parallel access or some such shit
[20:55] <Randomskk> yea
[20:55] <Randomskk> I think it's a good sign that you could whip that up so quickly
[20:55] <Randomskk> we must be doing something right on the backend
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[20:55] <junderwood> do you have a descent predictor built in?
[20:56] <Randomskk> not yet, though ultimately the predictor interface will be integrated with this for both automatic (totally automatic, no manual setup required) descent prediction and normal predictions
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[20:56] <Randomskk> the new predictor ui, that is
[20:56] <Randomskk> also the burst calculator, a more accessible version of the payload doc generator, etc
[20:56] <junderwood> I may be able to help you with that if I get a free moment some time
[20:56] <Randomskk> that current payload doc generator is a side effect of me reading too much ms paint adventures, but the underlying javascript will work just fine on a somewhat less silly interface
[20:57] <Randomskk> that'd be cool. all the code's on github, so it's easy to write a little bit or solve one issue or something and it can be pulled up to live
[20:57] <DanielRichman> :P the JS demo.js is just 400 lines of jquery selecting and ui updating. That will ultimately be binned and replaced with a setup where the flight data is a component of an overall system that includes the predictor and flight archive and flights in progress as equal components [iirc].
[20:57] <Randomskk> all the UI stuff is pure javascript too, at the moment (though eventually running a prediction will require a backend thing, nothing else does)
[20:57] <Randomskk> I wonder if we could do the prediction without needing backend stuff
[20:57] <DanielRichman> oh, wow.
[20:57] <DanielRichman> We totally could
[20:57] <Randomskk> ha, ha, write the predictor engine and a GFS parser in javascript
[20:58] <Randomskk> (that's a terribad idea)
[20:58] <junderwood> ouch
[20:58] <junderwood> a back-end GFS server wouldn't hurt
[20:58] <Randomskk> yea I very much imagine the predictor itself and the data collection for it will run on the server
[20:58] <Randomskk> shame as otherwise the entire ui is javascript talking directly to the database
[20:59] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/v/8PwrCuifj0w
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[21:00] <NigeyS> hmm something tripped the tripswitch for the plugs :|
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> thats the shit man
[21:01] <Randomskk> why is he telling it to land on the sea
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:02] <Randomskk> that does look cool though
[21:02] <DanielRichman> the current predictor includes php, python, and C bits but is stable and works well. It might be possible to tidy it a little but it should be possible to trivially integrate it.
[21:02] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: the python bit could really do with some work, it's a bit yuck
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> i think mine is crashing as google earth isnt supposed to work as a plugin in linux
[21:02] <NigeyS> Randomskk, whatwas the link to create an xml? ill make 1 for next weeks picochu launch
[21:02] <Randomskk> my opinion would be to use use flask to make the python bit the only web stuff
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> should be possible to hack it tho :P
[21:03] <Randomskk> NigeyS: http://habhub.org/genpayload
[21:03] <NigeyS> thankoo
[21:03] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: the php is just there to start the python script running and give it the form info
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> 2d mode works nicely but openstreetmap is greyed out for some reason
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> it is supported.. something has gone wrong
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> also it doesnt support proxies... even tho the code seems to have been written
[21:13] <NigeyS> Randomskk, works nicely :D
[21:14] <Randomskk> cool! what browser/os?
[21:14] <NigeyS> win7 x64, firefox 5
[21:14] <Randomskk> great
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[21:33] <Laurenceb_> http://www.sourcepole.ch/osgearth-for-ubuntu
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> wow
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> its working as well.. i have a DEM for the whole world XD
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[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> I like this one: http://www.klopfers-web.de/pictures/20110713043722.jpg
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> so when its properly hacked together, qgroundcontrol renders google maps tiles over the osgearth dem, genius
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> im guess google is pretty mad about this sort of stuff
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> aha irs space shuttle radar
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> *its
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> SRTM
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> It's annoyingly the best open dataset
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> ASTER was supposed to be better.
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> But it's not.
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2010/01/13/aster-not-worth-it-yet/
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[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> I got a question for you
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> I was thinking on how to connect the sensors to the arduino on the balloon
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> I thought about stuff like female-to-male wires and so on
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> and then I thought
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> what about putting the sensors on a breadboard like here? there they are relatively fixed and safe
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> anyone?
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> *having an opinion please
[21:53] <Randomskk> breadboards are not a great idea
[21:53] <Randomskk> but then really any wiring into an arduino isn't that great
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:54] <Randomskk> connectors are pretty important for reliable systems!
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> true
[21:54] <Randomskk> and arduino just doesn't really do connectors
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> how can it be done better?
[21:54] <Randomskk> if you are definitely using an arduino, a breadboard is probably more reliable than the arduino itself, so whatever, though personally I'd go with female-to-male wires in that setup
[21:54] <Randomskk> ideally a PCB with proper connectors of some kind
[21:54] <Randomskk> or soldered wires
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> I would use the arduino of course
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> I was just thinking about how to fix the sensors in the payload box
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[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> do you know where to get female to male wires?
[22:02] <Randomskk> not really. sparkfun/sparkfun distributors?
[22:02] <Randomskk> they're not uncommon prototyping things
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> let me look
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[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.emartee.com/product/42033/Male%20To%20Female%20Breadborad%20Jumper%20Wire
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
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[23:26] <NigeyS> ping pong
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 15 2011