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[01:37] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: SpeedBall-2 electronics getting built for Detroit @MakerFaire indoor flight demo! #arhab #UKHAS http://t.co/EA1xbhq http://t.co/zYOa9nc [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/88783714192080897]
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[02:54] <hibby> evening ukhas
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[04:47] <SamSilver> eroomde: have a look see at the instruments on this baby http://www.noaa.inel.gov/capabilities/smartballoon/smartballoon.htm
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[06:33] <fsphil> you been assimilated yet hibby? :)
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[06:43] <jcoxon> morning all
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[06:46] <fsphil> morning
[06:54] <SamSilver> morning
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[07:31] <[STAR]Atanyi|AFK> morning
[07:31] Nick change: [STAR]Atanyi|AFK -> Upu
[07:32] Action: Upu kicks mIRC
[07:32] <Upu> wish it would stop doing that
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[11:13] <cuddykid> hi all
[11:15] <Laurenceb> hi
[11:16] <cuddykid> going to try and get a schematic done today - can't send the messy wiring up again
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[11:18] <cuddykid> anyone have an eagle library for atmega 328 chip? scoured internet and can't find one
[11:19] <WillDuckworth> i'm using an arduino shield like this one: http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=50_76&products_id=443
[11:20] <cuddykid> yeah, using the duemilanove currently - but looking to just place the chip in a custom pcb for next flight
[11:26] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/07/vulture_2/
[11:26] <WillDuckworth> typical - they'll just hurl money at it - again
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[11:27] <Laurenceb> i dont believe their plane actually flew
[11:27] <Darkside> no way they'll be able to launch that in the UK too
[11:28] <Laurenceb> they are in spain
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[11:29] <fsphil> it looked pretty much like falling in the video
[11:29] <cuddykid> anyone have the link to atmel.lbr - can't believe this library is so hard to find!
[11:29] <Darkside> Laurenceb: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/05/paris_aerial_pics/page6.html
[11:29] <Darkside> ahh
[11:29] <fsphil> maybe it flew when it got into the thicker air
[11:31] <Laurenceb> i bet it spiral dived/tumbled
[11:35] <Laurenceb> theres nothing like enough video to say if ti worked
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[11:42] <Laurenceb> i doubt it somehow - its hard to make something that will stay in stable flight from those altitudes and with turbulence etc
[11:51] <cuddykid> just got the BOC invoice - £112 eek
[11:55] <Laurenceb> what for?
[11:55] <cuddykid> helium hire
[11:55] <cuddykid> only 3.6 m3 aswell
[11:55] <fsphil> pretty close to what I was charged too
[11:56] <cuddykid> yeah, awful pricing from such a huge company
[12:09] <cuddykid> erghh, right, can someone help me out, I'm such a noob with eagle! - Basically I just want to add into my schematic an atmega328 (arduino bootloader) but none of the libraries on the internet seem to have it?!
[12:10] <Darkside> 168 has the same pinout
[12:10] <Darkside> also, get the sparkfun library
[12:11] <fsphil> Darkside, I got a spare O2 sim if you're still after it
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[12:13] <cuddykid> Darksie, thanks :) will have a look
[12:13] <Darkside> fsphil: nah, don't want to go with O2
[12:14] <fsphil> you found a better provider for data?
[12:14] <cuddykid> have to say you can always haggle with vodafone! - managed to get my tethering bolt on free after haggling with them!
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> That's with a contract?
[12:18] <cuddykid> yeah
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[12:18] <cuddykid> Darkside: thanks, sparkfun library has worked a treat!
[12:21] <fsphil> vodafone was awful coverage where I work
[12:21] <fsphil> though haven't tried them for a while
[12:27] <cuddykid> yeah, I had to put an o2 sim (well.. tesco to be precise) in the backup tracker last minute as it was predicted to land in the wild wilderness where vodafone have shocking coverage
[12:29] <cuddykid> anyway to remove the name of component on eagle? e.g. all my resistors have got names like R1 R2..etc
[12:30] <Darkside> those are the designators
[12:30] <Darkside> and you'll need them when doing the PCB
[12:31] <fsphil> yea, keep those
[12:33] <fsphil> yikes, it's absolutely pouring down outside - I can't hear anyone else over the noise on the roof
[12:33] <cuddykid> ahh, ok :)
[12:33] <cuddykid> lol
[12:33] <cuddykid> holding off here
[12:33] <cuddykid> .. just..
[12:35] <Darkside> oh god
[12:35] <Darkside> i just found out what chip the project i'm working on uses
[12:35] <Darkside> its an AVR
[12:35] <Darkside> AN AVR
[12:35] <Darkside> IN SPACE
[12:35] <cuddykid> haha
[12:35] <cuddykid> awesome
[12:35] <Darkside> and at the moment, it's running the Arduino bootloader :D
[12:36] <fsphil> so-near-it-really-is-space space?
[12:36] <Darkside> no
[12:36] <Darkside> SPACE
[12:36] <Darkside> as in, low earth orbit
[12:36] <fsphil> Arduino in space?
[12:36] Action: fsphil cries :p
[12:36] <Darkside> yup
[12:36] <Darkside> scary
[12:36] <Darkside> my reccomendation is to rip out all the arduino stuff
[12:36] <Darkside> and work on the bare metal AVR
[12:36] <fsphil> agreed++
[12:37] <fsphil> you could implement some kind of remote-flashing ability I bet
[12:38] <Darkside> oh jeez
[12:38] <Darkside> this is somewhat scary now
[12:38] <Darkside> i mean, i love AVRs
[12:38] <Darkside> but in SPACE?
[12:39] <Darkside> interesting, external EEPROM
[12:39] <fsphil> double check every result of your calculations :)
[12:39] <Darkside> (going over the'design docs')
[12:39] <Darkside> yeah
[12:39] <Darkside> i'm a little bit concerned about that
[12:39] <fsphil> checksum everything
[12:40] <fsphil> is there some kind of radiation test you can do on these? like a radiation version of a vacuum chamber?
[12:41] <Darkside> yeah i think so
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[12:41] <fsphil> no so bad -- though by it's nature the effects will be pretty random
[12:43] <Darkside> i'm thinking maybe use a smaller bootloader, wich checksumming
[12:43] <Darkside> or have multiple copies of the program code, and have a majority rules system
[12:43] <Darkside> or something
[12:43] <Darkside> some way of ensuring the code is valid
[12:43] <fsphil> RS codes
[12:43] <Darkside> but thebootloader
[12:43] <fsphil> so invalid code can be corrected if there are not too many errors
[12:43] <fsphil> aah
[12:43] <Darkside> what if the bootloader dies?
[12:44] <fsphil> second avr?
[12:44] <Darkside> >_>
[12:44] <fsphil> it's avr's all the way down
[12:44] <Darkside> hahahahahah
[12:45] <fsphil> though if you could have two avrs, each capable of ISP programming the other
[12:45] <Darkside> oh jeez
[12:45] <Darkside> complexity level rising
[12:45] <fsphil> yes
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[12:46] <fsphil> though they don't have to be able to program eachother
[12:46] <fsphil> the backup could be dedicated to re-flashing the main one if it stops working
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[13:00] <fsphil> woo, thunder
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[13:08] <fsphil> power cut
[13:09] <fsphil> lightning's knocked out the electric
[13:09] <fsphil> backup battery got a few minutes left :)
[13:11] <fsphil> ooh lasting longer than I thought
[13:12] <Darkside> lol
[13:14] <fsphil> 25%
[13:14] <fsphil> wonder what the lightning hit to cause this
[13:15] <fsphil> normally it just flickers
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[13:21] <Darkside> hmm
[13:21] <Darkside> lol
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[14:01] <cuddykid> haha
[14:01] <hibby> morning!
[14:02] <cuddykid> Hi hibby!
[14:02] <cuddykid> how's the US of A land?!
[14:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Morning Hibby, welcome to the new world
[14:03] <Dan-K2VOL> :-P
[14:03] <cuddykid> should be welcome to the land where the CAA ( or FAA in your case) don't interfere with cool projects!
[14:04] <Dan-K2VOL> ha cuddykid true, wait, is the CAA just UK based or do you mean in all of Europe
[14:05] <cuddykid> CAA is just UK
[14:05] <cuddykid> but wherever they have these silly (well, I'm sure it's for a good reason.. but silly when getting in the way of cool HAB projects!!) rules
[14:05] <Dan-K2VOL> hey White Star Speedball-2 electronics are getting rapidly assembled for a bare-frame indoor ballast demo flight at MakerFaire!
[14:05] <hibby> nice
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[14:06] <Dan-K2VOL> we're going to put a leak in the plastic balloon envelope to make it constantly sink, so the ballast has something to work against
[14:09] <Dan-K2VOL> hoping to have 4.5m of vertical travel, but the building there keeps wanting to put us in a space that's only 4.8m tall and the balloon system will be 3m tall
[14:38] <Laurenceb> http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2011/07/07/vulture_2/
[14:39] <Laurenceb> Launch Assisted Device (with) Yaw Gyrocompassing (and) Autonomous Guidence Activation
[14:39] <Laurenceb> hell yeah
[14:48] <staylo> lol @ F-19 mockup :)
[14:49] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: that's what I wanted to do (bar the rocket thrusters!).. however looks like the UK CAA will say no no
[14:51] <cuddykid> staylo: It will need to be designed a little like F-19/ fighter - otherwise wings would just rip off on entering atmosphere - well, from the research I've done that's what I think!! Pretty cool lol
[14:52] <Laurenceb> they are in spain
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL> I've wondered about a rocket assist for balloon payloads that have a designed very low ascent rate, to get them over the tree line
[14:53] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: we were going to experiment with two balloons and a cutoff for that
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> good idea too hibby!
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[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph and I were thinking of that to tow superpressure balloons up to altitude
[14:54] <Dan-K2VOL> have a pressure sensor that activates the cutoff device
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> I mean a differential pressure sensor in the balloon
[14:55] <hibby> aha, nice idea.
[14:55] <hibby> we were thinking of just at a set altitude before balloon a's predicted pop
[14:56] <fsphil> that was fun -- lightning caused a power surge, knocked out our phone system :)
[14:56] <hibby> sweet
[14:57] <fsphil> had enough spare parts to get it going again-- but the burning smell in the office was pretty nasty
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> ha nice phil
[14:57] <hibby> it's a beautiful day in ohio, I think I'm gonna head to ihop and get my ass some pancakes and coffee
[14:57] <cuddykid> lol fsphil
[14:57] <cuddykid> you have had some bad storms recently!
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> enjoy hibby!
[14:57] <cuddykid> hibby, sounds wonderful!
[14:57] <hibby> blood diamond's nearly finished on the tv
[14:57] <fsphil> really have -- oddly this one was small and brief, but it must have hit someting important
[14:57] <fsphil> you and your nice weather hibby :p
[14:57] <cuddykid> fsphil: yeah, odd that
[14:57] <hibby> bizarre film to wake up to, but it's been good watching
[14:58] <fsphil> jet lagged?
[14:58] <hibby> not really
[14:58] <Dan-K2VOL> hibby did you see the NAT map I posted?
[14:58] <fsphil> handy
[14:58] <cuddykid> hibby: is this a uni summer placement or the likes that you are on?
[14:58] <Dan-K2VOL>
[14:58] <hibby> I usually sleep 4am - 13pm, so that translates to like, 11 and 7 here, or thereabouts
[14:59] <fsphil> very handy
[14:59] <fsphil> I used to keep those hours too
[14:59] <fsphil> fun days :)
[14:59] <fsphil> er, nights
[15:00] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: what's the significance?
[15:00] <cuddykid> a quick question for all: in eagle, I have to cross 2 lines however they can't cross when printed (on pcb), in the schematic is it ok just to run them over one another?
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> the white lines are the course your flight took, well, this is the course for flights today
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> but nearly the same
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> they're the North Atlantic Tracks
[15:00] <Dan-K2VOL> westbound
[15:00] <hibby> aye, wee came over greenland and canada into chicago
[15:01] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah they were more north yesterday
[15:01] <hibby> was annoyed - flew glasgow to heathrow, heathrow chicago, back over glasgow.
[15:01] <Dan-K2VOL> hahaha
[15:01] <hibby> niee one
[15:02] <hibby> http://ragecollection.com/3034
[15:02] <hibby> snigger
[15:03] <Dan-K2VOL> the westbound tracks avoid the jet stream, and of course the eastbound tracks, try to follow it in the winter, but there's not much to follow in the summer, so they pretty much follow the great circle route both ways I think:
[15:03] <Dan-K2VOL>
[15:04] <hibby> nice
[15:04] <Dan-K2VOL> these are US NOAA maps, modified by White Star servers to show current position and the HYSPLIT predicted track, so we can cut down if we're going to cross the tracks
[15:04] <hibby> haha
[15:04] <hibby> you guys have remote cutdown built in?
[15:04] <hibby> what frequency?
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[15:07] <Dan-K2VOL> the Digi m10 ORBCOMM sat modem provides two-way messaging,
[15:08] <hibby> aha, nice one
[15:08] <Dan-K2VOL> we send up 6-byte commands frequently to reset the automatic cutdown timer, and can change a bunch of limits and options if needed.
[15:08] <Laurenceb> when is whitestar launching?
[15:09] <Laurenceb> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/3/3/0/0/3/0/a4126186-155-vidio.jpg
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL> :-) we are hoping to launch a North America test flight before Fall, as soon as we get the sat modem arduino code and sat modem antenna working right.
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL> finally the group has rallied and are working on it all again :-D
[15:11] <hibby> I might pop down and give you some shit ideas ;)
[15:11] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe would be welcome!
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[16:00] <cuddykid> is there a way to move the name of a part in eagle? I'm creating a symbol and the names are overlapping
[16:02] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[16:02] <Dan-K2VOL> use the SMASH tool
[16:02] <Dan-K2VOL> smash all the things!
[16:02] <Dan-K2VOL> but seriously, cuddykid, there's a tool on the bar called smash, can't remember the icon
[16:03] <cuddykid> ahh cool! cheers!
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> then your name will get its own little cross-hair that it can be moved with
[16:03] <cuddykid> nice
[16:03] <cuddykid> thanks
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL> yw
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[16:07] <cuddykid> hmm, I've smashed it and for some reason each label hasn't got a cross hair by it
[16:07] <fsphil> how's it going cuddykid? I think I got as far as the board layout before I went nuts
[16:08] <cuddykid> fsphil: I'm slowly going crazy I think!
[16:08] <cuddykid> I could've drawn it out by hand in minutes! lol
[16:08] <fsphil> nah, I thought that too - I even started, but that quickly went nowhere
[16:09] <cuddykid> problem atm - I have created a custom component (just a connector for lassen iq) however the labels are all overlapped so can't read them
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid, that's the correct behavior for smash
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> it disconnects all the labels
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> oh wait
[16:12] <cuddykid> yeah, but there's no cross hairs
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> I see you said they didn't.,
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> ok
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> make sure you smash it on the cross hair of the part in question
[16:13] <cuddykid> every other component, cross hairs appears, but my custom made one - nope :(
[16:13] <cuddykid> yeah, it says it has succesfully been smashed
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
[16:13] <Dan-K2VOL> I do not know what is going on, let's summon Zuph !
[16:14] <cuddykid> haha! right, going to take the dog for a walk, need a break from this damn eagle!
[16:14] <cuddykid> bbl
[16:14] Action: fsphil gets the voodoo supplies
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[16:26] <Bigjon> we are having trouble getting our project to give us any further advice please. Does the ATmega328 work in the same way as the ATmega8?work we are using Robert Harrisons board and script with an ATmega 328. The NTX2 is transmitting a carrier but we seem to have no modulation can anyone
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> Zuph, u around?
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> just got a FunCube Dongle Pro delivered for work!
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> BigJon I think it works the same, however make sure your fuse settings are the same, particularly for the clock oscillator
[16:28] <hibby> \o/
[16:29] <Bigjon> I think we have the fuse settings correct but we are picking up a 12MHz signal instead of the expected 4MHz from the external oscillator. Does not seem to make much sense to us.
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[16:37] <daveake> I see the NOTAM has been issued for my launch attempt this weekend :-)
[16:38] <daveake> Not received it from the CAA yet but it's online now.
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[16:44] <hibby> nice
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[16:49] <daveake> Collecting the helium tomorrow, then I'm just about done :)
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[16:57] <cuddykid> daveake: where abouts are you based?
[16:57] <daveake> Near Newbury in Berks
[16:57] <cuddykid> cool, launch sat or sun?
[16:57] <cuddykid> will try and track!
[16:58] <daveake> Sunday - Saturday has a bit too much wind (prediction has it landing in Milton Keynes!)
[16:58] <daveake> For Sunday it says Oxfordshire just east of the M40, which is a lot easier to get to.
[16:59] <daveake> I've not had any success yet getting it put on the tracker. emailed jcoxon early this morning so I'm hoping for a reply later today
[17:00] <daveake> 434.65MHz, 50 baud, 7 bits no parity 1 stop, USB, ID "CLOUD1"
[17:00] <Upu> how do you check notams online ?
[17:00] <daveake> http://notaminfo.com/ukmap
[17:01] <Upu> daveake mail me the xml and I'll find someone to get it done
[17:01] <daveake> Thanks will do :-)
[17:02] <daveake> Mine is the one NW of Newbury
[17:06] <Upu> nice :)
[17:06] <Upu> thats your phone number I take it ?
[17:07] <daveake> No, just some random number ..... ;-). Yes, it is.
[17:08] <Upu> 10,000FT AMSL ALONG 270 DEG TRUE RADIAL FROM KIRKWALL (5859N 00257W)
[17:08] <Upu> BTN 2 POINTS AT 10 AND 60MN RANGE.
[17:08] <Upu> interesting :)
[17:08] <daveake> !!!!!!!
[17:08] <Upu> you want to avoid that one :)
[17:09] <daveake> LOL
[17:09] <daveake> Things will have gone seriously wrong if it gets anywhere near there!
[17:09] <Upu> yeah
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[17:10] <daveake> I don't know if my GPS will work above 60k. It's an old one and I couldn't quite get a match on the lists of "will work" or "won't work". I do have a pressure sensor in there so I can calculate height from that.
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[17:11] <Upu> which one is it ?
[17:12] <daveake> Jupiter 11.
[17:13] <daveake> It was part of another project years ago and I had a spare one in a box. I hate to buy new stuff if I can't get something old working
[17:14] <daveake> This is it - http://www.wa5rrn.com/GPS%20Other/Jupiter/NAVMAN_Jupiter_11_Datasheet.pdf
[17:15] <Upu> yeah interesting
[17:15] <Upu> as the operational says 60k or less
[17:15] <Upu> Altitude (operating/storage). -1000 feet to 60,000 feet
[17:15] <daveake> Ah
[17:15] <Upu> Maximum Vehicle Dynamic. 500 m/sec (acquisition and
[17:15] <Upu> navigation)
[17:15] <daveake> Oh well
[17:15] <daveake> Didn't spot that!
[17:15] <Upu> however some are and and some are or
[17:15] <Zuph> cuddykid: RE: Eagle, sometimes, cross hairs can get put in weird places or in weird layers. Make sure your parts are centerd in all layout editor views. Otherwise, I am lost.
[17:16] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: I am in and out :)
[17:16] <Upu> i.e 60000 or 500m/s
[17:16] <daveake> I'll know on Sunday :)
[17:16] <Upu> something like that anyway
[17:16] <Upu> indeed
[17:16] <daveake> It's not a big deal, so long as it starts working in on the way down!
[17:16] <Upu> shame though we won't know the true alititude
[17:16] <Upu> I'll lend you an Inventek next time
[17:17] <daveake> No but the pressure sensor is a pretty good one and I could correlate that with the GPS readings up to 60k
[17:17] <daveake> Cheers :)
[17:19] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPL3115A2&webpageId=M939346219036&fromPage=tax ?
[17:28] <cuddykid> Zuph: thanks, will have a look
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[17:29] <daveake> email on its way upu :-)
[17:32] <fsphil> ooh weekend launch
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[17:33] <daveake> With any luck :)
[17:34] <daveake> Also there's a radio ham in our village and I'm trying to recruit him to install dl-fldigi and help track :-)
[17:37] <daveake> brb - swapping PCs
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[17:48] <cuddykid> finally, just about got schematic done
[17:49] <cuddykid> lesson learnt - document the circuit next time before soldering it all together - fortunately payload was recovered in tact
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[17:58] <eroomde> afternoon
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[17:58] <eroomde> evening jevin
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[18:00] <jevin> eroomde, good afternoon!
[18:03] <eroomde> usa?
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[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL> hola eroomde
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[18:11] <eroomde> hola
[18:11] <eroomde> all well?
[18:12] <Dan-K2VOL> indeed, quite well, SpeedBall-2 construction has gotten underway to provide a bare frame indoor flight demo for the Detroit MakerFaire!
[18:12] <eroomde> awesome
[18:12] <eroomde> very exciting
[18:12] <eroomde> i'm just in the middle of moving
[18:12] <Dan-K2VOL> ugh not so exciting
[18:12] <eroomde> but I did a hab workshop in a school today with junderwood
[18:13] <Dan-K2VOL> hey that's cool, how did it go?
[18:14] <hibby> that's pretty cool
[18:14] <eroomde> we did: an intro talk with lots of pics and vids, then split them into groups of 5 which rotated around: writing a chdk script (and learning about for loops and other programming basics), reading the temp sensor strings off telemetry and putting the sensor at different temps to do a y=mx+c calibration on the raw values, and then payload building
[18:14] <eroomde> then in the afternoon we did fox-hunting with a yagi for a payload hidden in the school fields
[18:14] <eroomde> hopefully going to do the actual launch at their school in the next two weeks
[18:14] <BrainDamage> 1MW beacon transmitter? :p
[18:15] <Dan-K2VOL> hey eroomde I like that content
[18:15] <eroomde> lol, just the ntx2 without antenna
[18:15] <Dan-K2VOL> what kind of temp sensor?
[18:15] <eroomde> canni remember
[18:15] <eroomde> i2c
[18:15] <eroomde> just spat raw values ove the telem (which they set up fldigi to decode correctly)
[18:16] <eroomde> yeah it went well - there was a range of ages and abilities
[18:16] <eroomde> actually there was a group of 3 x 12 years olds
[18:16] <eroomde> all of them got for loops with no problem at all, totally intuitive
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL> very neat!
[18:16] <eroomde> then one of them asked (when we were working out how long it would take to fill the 4gig card) why the jpegs were all different sizes
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds like a good curriculum, much better than the one I was asked to help with at a summer camp
[18:17] <eroomde> i took a deep breath and tried to explain compression and information content as simply as a could, vs raw bitmap
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> oh my lol
[18:17] <eroomde> and she said 'oh ok, so if i take a picture of a blank sheet of paper that would take less space than one with... spots and lots of features on?'
[18:17] <eroomde> i nearly jumped for joy
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> nice!!
[18:18] <eroomde> amazing how kids don;t find things hard if you don't tell them that they're meant to be hard
[18:18] <eroomde> quote of the day though, from an exasperated teacher
[18:19] <eroomde> 'bradley! the antenna is NOT a lightsabre'
[18:19] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[18:20] <Zuph> Man, some of the 20-30 year olds in my image processing course didn't grok that one :-p
[18:20] <eroomde> well i obviosuly steared clear of talking about entropy
[18:20] <eroomde> but they kind of understood high frequency and low frequency content
[18:21] <eroomde> another one of the guys correctly surmised that the jpeg artifacts on sharp edges were because of that
[18:21] <eroomde> i was really impressed with them actually
[18:21] <Zuph> Wow, that's pretty impressive!
[18:21] <Randomskk> haha that sounds like a great workshop
[18:22] <eroomde> and they intuitively grasped quantisation too, saying things like 'so there are lots of different shades of red and green, but can you just say it's 'red' or 'green' to save space?'
[18:22] <eroomde> 12!
[18:22] <eroomde> future's in good hands
[18:22] <Randomskk> they'll be dumb by 16 :|
[18:23] <eroomde> true that
[18:23] <Randomskk> school seems to suck out the ability to intuit things and replace it with the ability to follow steps?
[18:23] <eroomde> gcses do that to you
[18:23] <Randomskk> http://www.garlikov.com/Soc_Meth.html was a fun thing I read about teaching young kids binary and them getting it really quickly
[18:23] <Zuph> Heh, maybe on your side of the pond. I've had the displeasure of teaching some truly obstinate and resistant 12 year olds over here.
[18:24] <eroomde> this was the science club
[18:24] <eroomde> rather than a representative band
[18:24] <Zuph> ah ha
[18:24] <eroomde> i should disclose. so probably at least moderately self selecting
[18:24] <eroomde> but it's just a small community school
[18:24] <eroomde> they build a leaf-blower hover craft last week
[18:25] <Zuph> My GF teaches science based after-school programs at various different schools, including religious ones. Let me tell you, Dinosaurs get awfully boring when you have to avoid talking about anything that would discredit the "Young Earth" view.
[18:26] <BrainDamage> wait what?
[18:26] <Hiena> Ehehehe...
[18:26] <Randomskk> she should clearly be more secretly subversive
[18:27] <Zuph> Randomskk: That's what I tell her.
[18:28] <Zuph> Instead of saying, "Millions of years ago," she has to say, "Many, many years ago."
[18:28] <BrainDamage> our of curiosity, how old are those kids? and how can such school exist?
[18:28] <eroomde> that reminds me of that mat damon interview about sarah palin
[18:29] <Hiena> nah, the "Long, long time ago... " sounds much better, but it's under the copyright laws...
[18:29] <eroomde> 'does she honestly things that jesus was walking around with dinosaurs? she's going to have the nuclear codes. i need to know!'
[18:29] <Zuph> From what she's told me, it seems like these kids are already so uninquisitive that it wouldn't matter how she phrased it.
[18:30] <Zuph> BrainDamage: Usually from 5 to 10 years old. Schools like that exist for all ages, though.
[18:31] <Hiena> Nothing like the good old style brain-washing.
[18:31] <Hiena> No thinking, just bashing.
[18:31] <BrainDamage> ugh, I'm ok with religious school concept, but I'm not ok on their POV being enforced
[18:32] <eroomde> at least she doesn't have to actually lie
[18:32] <Upu> daveake - DanielRichman has sorted your XML out just refresh payloads in dl-fldigi - good luck!
[18:32] <Randomskk> that's right, they teach each view fairly and let the students choose for themselves, right?
[18:33] <Randomskk> hence the whole FSM thing I guess
[18:33] <BrainDamage> that's what they did in my elementary school
[18:33] <Zuph> It depends on the school, too. Some are fine with it. Others demand the instructors adhere to some strict "educational standards."
[18:33] <BrainDamage> also, religious teaching wasn't strictly monoreligious
[18:33] <BrainDamage> different cults were explained
[18:34] <BrainDamage> in retrospective, I was quite lucky
[18:34] <eroomde> not if you name is anything to go by
[18:34] <BrainDamage> that's irc for you :p
[18:35] <daveake> upu - THANKS :) (to both of you)
[18:35] Action: hibby is keen to go to the creation museum while I'm here
[18:35] <eroomde> youtube interlude from dark-ages teaching. marc-andre hamelin playing alkan. a very good pianist playing a pretty diabolically technically demanding peice very well. good to make you feel mediocre. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8dP0LW0Ps8&feature=related
[18:35] <Zuph> Heh, one of the schools (An elementary school, 5-11 years old, or so) had a day of silence for Good Friday. No one was allowed to speak, not even the instructors. At the end-of-day announcements on Thursday, the vice-principal told everyone to "Think about how Jesus must have felt on the cross while you're being quiet tomorrow."
[18:35] <Upu> daveake once you know the date and time fire a mail to the mailing list
[18:39] <daveake> Will do.
[18:41] <daveake> I'm probably going to call it a night soonish as I've been up since 4am (!) so I'll test everything in the morning
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[19:01] <Upu> anyone got dl-fldigi open could you refresh payloads, set to cloud1 and autoconfigure and tell me what it sets the shift too ?
[19:06] <daveake> Says 23 in the carrier shift box!
[19:07] <daveake> I've started up "CLOUD1" :-) and set the carrier shift manually to 450. Seems to be working :)
[19:08] <daveake> (not that I'd know if it wasn't)
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[19:11] <daveake> (Stupid question coming up) ... does something else need to happen for the balloon to appear on spacenear.us?
[19:13] <hibby> receive packets?
[19:14] <daveake> Am doing. Nice green box seems to like them.
[19:14] <hibby> fldigi recognise it's online/etc?
[19:15] <daveake> Looks like it. The packets are appearing in the raw data at http://robertharrison.org/listen/view.php
[19:15] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: who are the groups in Tennessee or Alabama
[19:16] <cuddykid> hmm, zuph (or anyone else): do you know why the lines I draw on schematic aren't connecting properly to my custom made component?
[19:17] <Dan-K2VOL> hibby in general or someone up today?
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[19:18] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: think they're testing the tracker
[19:18] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> Bill Brown is in Alabama,
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> likely him
[19:18] <daveake> evening:)
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> WB8ELK
[19:18] <Upu> evening jcoxon
[19:19] <hibby> Ah
[19:19] <hibby> american mountain dew is amazing
[19:19] <hibby> happy hibby
[19:20] <Zuph> hibby: lol
[19:20] <Dan-K2VOL> lol really, I can't stand that stuff personally
[19:20] <Dan-K2VOL> or are you speaking of 'real' mountain dew
[19:20] <Zuph> I can't either. Mt. Dew throwback isn't too bad.
[19:21] <Zuph> Heh, if you want some realy Kentucky Mountain Dew, I can probably accomodate
[19:21] <Zuph> *real
[19:21] <cuddykid> why oh why aren't the lines connecting to the component I made :S !! - eagle really annoys me!
[19:21] <hibby> haha
[19:21] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid are you in schematic or pcb view
[19:21] <Upu> daveake as we recieve packets we upload to the tracker, if you can run dl-fldigi locally and upload via 3G that will also elp
[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid you may want to go through the sparkfun video tutorial of eagle part making in detail
[19:22] <daveake> Yeah I should be able to
[19:22] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: schematic view. when I went to pcb none of the lines were connected and now why I go back to schematic they don't seem to "snap" onto each other correctly like other components do
[19:22] <cuddykid> yeah
[19:22] <Upu> just not sure why the auto configure shift is wrong
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid are you using actual pins for the pins in your part?
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> when you made it
[19:23] <daveake> My laptop has 3G built in but for some reason dl-fldigi doesn't hear anything from the line in. Instead I'm using a netbook which does work but has no 3G. Tomorrow I'll see if I can get it tethered to my Android phone to connect that way
[19:23] <cuddykid> I think so, I did select and add pins
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> only one end of the pin will be connectable with lines when it's placed, and it's easy to get it backwards
[19:24] <cuddykid> ahhh, that might be the problem!
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> also you need to make sure your grid spacing is standard when you place the pins in the part - 0.1 inches
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> and that your grid in schematic view is the same standard 0.1 inches
[19:24] <cuddykid> is the green circle end of the pin the bit you draw the line to?
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> all of sparkfun's parts use that spacing
[19:24] <daveake> So one way or another I should be able to upload packets :)
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> I can't remember
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> just try attaching a net line to the other end of the pin in schem view
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> that will tell you :-P
[19:25] <cuddykid> haha, ok! :P
[19:28] <Dan-K2VOL> and remember to use nets not wires! but you're probably all fine with that
[19:29] <Upu> daveake the shift can only switch to one of the dl-fldigi defaults so we'll set it to 425 just put 450 on your mail
[19:29] <fsphil> ooh any further cuddykid?
[19:29] <daveake> Ah, fairy nuff. I doubt I'll get time but I could adjust the resistors to hit 425
[19:30] <cuddykid> fsphil, well.. I'm almost bald now lol... urm, thought I'd connected everything up, but then switched to board view only to find the component I had created had no wires coming from it..
[19:30] <Upu> don't worry about it sure it will still decode
[19:30] <daveake> Indeed!
[19:30] <fsphil> the shift can be changed on the fly
[19:30] <daveake> Don't want to do any last-minute changes if I can help it :)
[19:30] <fsphil> just has to be done manually
[19:31] <Upu> no last minute changes are bad :)
[19:31] <Upu> ask cuddykid
[19:31] <fsphil> lol
[19:31] <cuddykid> haha
[19:31] <daveake> That's what I was thinking of :D
[19:31] <cuddykid> NO NO NO NO NO NO last minute changes... no matter how insignificant them seem lol
[19:31] <fsphil> we should make a wiki page "lessons learned"
[19:31] <cuddykid> you might just be 1 millisecond out!
[19:31] <cuddykid> haha indeed fsphil
[19:32] <fsphil> "Don't launch in gales"
[19:32] <Upu> knock yourself out :)
[19:32] <jcoxon> avoid trees
[19:32] <fsphil> "Don't make the antenna in a rush on the morning of the launch"
[19:32] <Upu> don't launch in a force 10 gale ?
[19:33] <fsphil> it's fun though ;)
[19:33] <daveake> Don't forget to tie your payload to the balloon
[19:33] <fsphil> man that thing went some speed
[19:33] <hibby> "If launching in wind, don't throw it up, and watch as the rope tenses and balloon deforms under tension and the payload destroys itself on the ground"
[19:34] <fsphil> that was a real shame that
[19:34] <hibby> hilarious video
[19:35] <fsphil> did you ever sneak a copy onto the net?
[19:35] <hibby> don't think they posted it online
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[19:35] <daveake> Don't allow a balloon with a BFO payload go sideways and take out 2 cars
[19:35] <fsphil> lol
[19:35] <hibby> "Off it goes. Aww. Fuck. That's expensive"
[19:35] <fsphil> that was painful to watch
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[19:45] <cuddykid> Yes! Finally done schematic :D
[19:47] <Dan-K2VOL> cool cuddykid
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[20:22] <Upu> http://www.karczewski.co.uk/gallery/beta/maya.png :)
[20:23] <hibby> haha
[20:23] <NigeyS> hm u guys seen this
[20:23] <NigeyS> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/07/vulture_2/
[20:24] <Upu> hope they sort the overly complex launch mechanism out
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[20:24] <NigeyS> yup, good luck to them lol
[20:25] <Upu> I'd love to do that but the issues and problems are well massive :)
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[20:25] <eroomde> i predict the rocket won't ignite
[20:25] <Upu> tough have been playing with the idea of a gyroscope stablised payload
[20:25] <NigeyS> i oo
[20:26] <NigeyS> -i
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL> upu I've seen a nice passive angular momentum stabilization using a long (several meters) horizontal fiberglass pole
[20:26] <Upu> got some old hard drive motors and was going to blot 3 platters together
[20:26] <Upu> not a fan of things sticking out :)
[20:27] <Upu> though I do have a plan I was thinking about
[20:27] <Upu> I still REALLY want a picture of the payload up there
[20:27] <Upu> so considering 2 payloads under one balloon but on a beam
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> i still dont believe their previous flight succeeded
[20:28] <Upu> but let me get one launch under my belt before I start getting clever
[20:28] <Upu> it did Laurenceb but I don't think it detached properly
[20:28] <Upu> stupid complex design
[20:28] <NigeyS> Laurenceb, howcome ?
[20:28] <Upu> seriously they could have done it easily with a pyro but choose this wacky pressure operated pump thing
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[20:29] <Laurenceb_> as its didnt have any guidance
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> and there no evidence it flew properly (2 frames of video dont count)
[20:29] <Upu> http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/10/28/vulture_recovery.jpg
[20:29] <Upu> landed in a tree
[20:29] <Upu> must be true :_)
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> lol upu pyros are not legal in some places
[20:30] <jcoxon> Upu, you launching this weekend?
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> wish they were here
[20:30] <Upu> no daveake is
[20:30] <Upu> I'm hopefully on 24th
[20:30] <Upu> still waiting on NOTAM though
[20:32] <eroomde> Upu: when did you apply for it?
[20:32] <Upu> months ago
[20:32] <eroomde> that man really needs a boot up his arse
[20:32] <eroomde> worthless git
[20:32] <NigeyS> lol
[20:32] <NigeyS> evening Ed
[20:32] <Upu> I chased him
[20:32] <daveake> LOL
[20:32] <Upu> "I am currently working on applications for this month, so it will take some time for me to issue the permission and NOTAM for your request. However, I have had a quick look at your application and it should be possible to approve this launch, providing that the correct co-ordination takes place with local airfields. "
[20:33] <Upu> Funny thats what Rob Harrison said last week too
[20:33] <Upu> if this is granted I have the land owners permission and we are going to see if we can extend it
[20:33] <daveake> We've chased him for this launch and an earlier cancelled one. he seems to be quite busy. He seems to do the weekend ones on a Thursday
[20:33] <eroomde> we want one for monday week
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[20:33] <daveake> good luck with that!
[20:34] <Upu> Launch is all subject to a good prediciton too
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[20:34] <eroomde> this is why the system is hopeless
[20:34] <eroomde> you need a system that has a 2 day turnaround
[20:34] <eroomde> so you can react to weather
[20:34] <eroomde> thank god for our rolling 6 month one at cambridge
[20:34] <eroomde> we'd be shafted otherwise
[20:34] <daveake> Well I asked for each weekend in July from this weekend onwards
[20:35] <daveake> I think once he has an application he doesn't mind changing the dates too much.
[20:36] <eroomde> i send him diffs usually
[20:36] <eroomde> for the cam one
[20:36] <jcoxon> i might launch picoatlas III
[20:37] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but I'm curious if the CAA might be subtly trying to keep the number of launches reduced by making it difficult to get permission
[20:38] <hibby> wouldn't surprise me. They were totally accomodating when we were launching in scotland
[20:38] <hibby> all they really wanted to know about was the colour of the parachute
[20:38] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
[20:38] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: no, i don;t think so
[20:38] <daveake> LOL
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[20:38] <eroomde> it's always been like this
[20:38] <daveake> Never asked about mine
[20:38] <eroomde> since before hab was a thing
[20:39] <eroomde> it's been a constant - one guy, who always sounds a bit flustered and after a quiet life when you call him up
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> still, it seems effective at discouraging participants
[20:39] <eroomde> it encourages thirst for public secotr reform
[20:39] <eroomde> that's for sure
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[20:39] <eroomde> sector*
[20:40] <Dan-K2VOL> I think the FAA will eventually require such things, when they get around to it
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[20:45] <Randomskk> I wonder if el reg will actually get a rocket launched from a balloon
[20:45] <Randomskk> it's hard to tell how much they appreciate some of the challenges involved
[20:45] <Randomskk> and a full autopilot, at that
[20:45] <eroomde> legal challenges
[20:45] <Randomskk> many of those. though I imagine they'll launch from spain again
[20:45] <Upu> they need to make things simpler
[20:46] <NigeyS> wonder if theyll launch it from spain again
[20:46] <Randomskk> seeing as UAVs are essentially illegal in the UK unless you're in unaided visual contact
[20:46] <NigeyS> jcoxon, what's you picoatlas III payload like ?
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[20:48] <jcoxon> solar panel, 85mAh lipo, arduino mini pro, ntx2, ublox gps
[20:48] <jcoxon> depending on the solar panel as small as 32g
[20:49] <NigeyS> dam, makes my 88g look heavy !
[20:50] <jcoxon> well its the tiny battery
[20:50] <jcoxon> and aggressive power savings
[20:50] <hibby> would it be lighter to use a tiny pcb, atmega328 chip, ntx2 ubloxgps?
[20:50] <NigeyS> true .. 85mah is tiny
[20:50] <hibby> would involve a vreg, I guess, but they're pretty light, and you'll have one for the GPS I imagine?
[20:50] <jcoxon> hibby, it could be lighter
[20:51] <jcoxon> and an intergrated pcb would be hte next step
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[21:23] <fsphil> finally cleared the spare room .... toooo mucch craaap
[21:24] <hibby> I noticed that when I moved out my flat
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[21:25] <fsphil> think I'll try flogging some of it
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[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> hello people
[21:30] <fsphil> heya LL
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life today?
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[21:31] <hibby> \o/ youtube have lifted my 15m limit
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> mine too :)
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil I got a question
[21:32] <fsphil> Yes Santa is real :)
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
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[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> I got that Stabo XR100 scanner
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> which is similar to Yupiteru MVT-7100
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> is that good enough or shall I try on this one? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yaesu-FT-780-R-/150626715523?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item23120d4783#ht_500wt_1156
[21:34] <fsphil> it should be fine
[21:34] <jcoxon> though the 790 is amazing
[21:34] <fsphil> if you can do a range test to be sure
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:34] <fsphil> that's a 780
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK had a MVT-7100
[21:35] <fsphil> not sure if there's much difference
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[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> he wanted to try it on your cancelled flight fsphil
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[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> my budget for this month also isn't that big
[21:36] <fsphil> yea he was away for the actual flight
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> best thing would be if one of you people in here would have such a thing spare or so
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> and then we'd talk about a price
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> and done
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> but I think no one has a radio to spare right now?
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[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> FT-790R it is?
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> and there is only Yaesu who made a FT-790R, no other company?
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> or fsphil
[21:47] <hibby> yes, FT is the Yaesu product scheme
[21:47] <fsphil> it was their radio :)
[21:47] <hibby> just as IC is the typical Icom scheme
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> could you keep your fingers crossed for me?
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> I found one on the DARC radio marked
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> *market
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil jcoxon
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> hey!
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> they got the balloon data from Italy
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> and photos of the recovery
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/gallery/picture.php?id=1309287239&picture=66
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil seen it?
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> was your tree higher?
[22:00] <fsphil> looks about the same
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/gallery/picture.php?id=1309287239&picture=69
[22:03] <fsphil> Maybe a bit higher, my pole *just* reached it
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> they stated it was about 15 m above ground
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[22:04] <fsphil> about 12m for mine
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> and as I said
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> I found an offer for an FT-790R
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> just wrote a mail asking if it is still for sale
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> could you keep your fingers crossed for me :)?
[22:06] <fsphil> and toes :p
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> are you ready for 2 min 18 sec HDTV?
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUysC0uylRU
[22:13] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6PSbUl_68k&feature=related <- haha
[22:13] <Upu> love it
[22:14] <Upu> thats why I want to take a picture of the payload when it sup there
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> Upu what do you think about my vid?
[22:15] <Upu> very nice in HD too :)
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:16] <fsphil> hopefully your payload doesn't do the same as the chair after the burst
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> RF is a friend from Slovenia
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> he made a new C++ program
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> with .h and .cpp files
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> xD Upu and what about the end credits ;)?
[22:17] <Upu> no the chair doesn't do too well
[22:17] <Upu> oh I didn't watch that far :)
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:18] <Upu> very nice :)
[22:18] <Upu> better than mine
[22:18] <Upu> anyway I'm off have fun o7
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> ok ;)
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[22:44] <Elwell> nice footage
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Elwell
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 8 2011