highaltitude.log.20110706

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[06:48] <SamSilver> mixio: good morning
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[06:54] <eroomde> morning SamSilver
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[07:02] <SamSilver> eroomde: oop was afk
[07:02] <SamSilver> am busy toasting sourdough bread
[07:02] <SamSilver> oops
[07:02] <SamSilver> *
[07:03] <eroomde> wouldnt want to get in the way of that!
[07:03] <SamSilver> added about 35% rye flour
[07:03] <eroomde> I'm moving to a part of oxford called Jericho
[07:03] <SamSilver> and is there an oven to be built in Jericho?
[07:04] <eroomde> it's got good bakeries, butchers, delis, and an arts picturehouse cinema (a cinema where they show interesting films and let you take in a beer) all within 2 mins
[07:04] <eroomde> no - property there isn't that spacious
[07:04] <eroomde> which is unfortunate
[07:04] <eroomde> but it's the trade-off of being 24 :)
[07:05] <SamSilver> true
[07:05] <SamSilver> sounds good
[07:05] <eroomde> but yeah - i'll have a frenchy style ability to pop to the baker first thing in the morning for bread
[07:05] <eroomde> which i'm looking forward to
[07:05] <eroomde> where i am here it's about 1.5miles to the nearest bakery. more of an effort and i tend not to bother
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[07:10] <[STAR]Atanyi|AFK> morning
[07:10] <[STAR]Atanyi|AFK> grr
[07:10] Nick change: [STAR]Atanyi|AFK -> Upu
[07:10] Action: Upu kicks mIRC
[07:10] <eroomde> that's quite a name
[07:10] <Upu> don't ask
[07:10] <Upu> daveake http://ava.upuaut.net/files/parachute1.JPG
[07:11] <Upu> and http://ava.upuaut.net/files/parachute2.JPG
[07:11] <daveake> Cheers, will try to do the same :)
[07:11] <Upu> pic 2 is the stitching the local seamstress did
[07:11] <Upu> really tidy job
[07:12] <daveake> Nice
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[07:22] <mixio> Good morning
[07:23] <mixio> does anyone have a tutorial of how to make a cutdown mechanism?
[07:23] <mixio> can we control this mechanism by software?
[07:23] <mixio> I want to command it to cut the balloon when you reach 35.000m
[07:23] <mixio> how possible is this?
[07:23] <eroomde> mixio: yes, there's a tutorial on the wiki to pake a pyrotechnic cutdown
[07:24] <eroomde> and it's easilyt controlled - you just pass a current through the electric match inside
[07:24] <mixio> I think i will need some extra module for that!
[07:24] <mixio> give me that wikipage eroomde
[07:25] <eroomde> voomanding it to cutdown in sofware is quite easy too - your gps will tell you the altitude, you just need a function to toggle the i/o line for the pyro when alt >= 35000
[07:25] <eroomde> jusr finding it
[07:25] <mixio> "voomanding it to cutdown" sorry i didnt get that
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[07:26] <eroomde> oh gosh sorry
[07:26] <eroomde> commanding
[07:26] <eroomde> i can't type very well
[07:26] <mixio> give me link !
[07:28] <mixio> but where do u put that module?
[07:28] <mixio> its out on the balloon?
[07:28] <eroomde> usually between the parachute and the balloon
[07:28] <eroomde> to separate the two
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[07:28] <mixio> i think i will do this on a stripboard. i dont have money to build new pcbs
[07:28] <eroomde> qand i'm just hunting for the link - give me a minute
[07:29] <eroomde> and*
[07:29] <eroomde> yes stripboard is fine - it only needs a FET
[07:30] <eroomde> mixio: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support
[07:30] <eroomde> your igniter circuit doesn't have to look exactly like that
[07:30] <eroomde> and also, it's advisable to put a (high power) 1 or 2 ohm resistor in series with the pyrotechnic
[07:31] <eroomde> this gives a more controlled current to the e-mathc, and stops the nichrome wire inside the match from blowing apart prematurely
[07:32] <eroomde> that doesn't really happen very often (I think pyrotechnic cutdowns are the most reliable thing in hab) but it's good practice to put in that series resistor
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[07:34] <mixio> I need to buy this from somehwere?
[07:34] <eroomde> you make it
[07:35] <eroomde> you can buy e-matches
[07:35] <eroomde> the rest you make with some acrylic tube - i bought some from ebay
[07:35] <mixio> what is a e-match?
[07:35] <eroomde> ah sorry
[07:35] <eroomde> well, it's like a normal match
[07:35] <eroomde> except it is ignited by current being passed through it
[07:36] <eroomde> so it's a little bit of nichrome wire which heats up when current is applied. this ignite the coating
[07:36] <mixio> like electronic match ?
[07:36] <eroomde> yes exactly that
[07:36] <eroomde> some people (including us) put a little bit of gun powder into the tube surrounding the electronic match too
[07:36] <mixio> I dont know if iam able to build such a thing. Is anyone here making this stuff? I can pay him to send me.
[07:36] <eroomde> just to make sure it goes :)
[07:36] <mixio> lol
[07:36] <eroomde> we probably shouldn't post them
[07:36] <mixio> yeah
[07:37] <eroomde> but they're much easier than they look mixio
[07:37] <eroomde> if you can manage a hab you will have no problem
[07:37] <eroomde> you just need to chop some acrylic tube (the tube from a biro pen can be used) to a length of about 4cm
[07:37] <eroomde> put an e-match in one end and pour down about 1cm high of glue to seal that end
[07:38] <mixio> i think i will ask someone to do it for me and send it
[07:38] <eroomde> then pour in about 2cm of gunpowder around the e-match, so now the total height of stuff inside the tube is 3cm. then in the final cm, pour more glue
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[09:34] <fsphil> that actually sounds quite neat eroomde .. have you ever had a case where a pyro didn't fire?
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[09:46] <cuddykid> just bought a nice tiny little servo for £3.50 -> interesting to see how well it works at that price
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[10:01] <fsphil> nice
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[10:25] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Apex II's third launch is being postponed from this Saturday. We'll be focusing more on Apex Alpha over the coming weeks. #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/88554188795158528]
[10:28] <jonsowman> cuddykid: hi
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[10:47] <cuddykid> hi jonsowman :)
[10:50] <jonsowman> apologies for not getting back to your message
[10:50] <jonsowman> I've been on holiday for the last 8 days
[10:54] <cuddykid> no problem! I thought you must have been away :)
[10:54] <cuddykid> had a good holiday?
[10:54] <jonsowman> very nice thank you
[10:54] <jonsowman> :)
[10:54] <jonsowman> have you launched then?
[10:55] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/05/anti_powerpoint_party/
[10:55] <Laurenceb> awesome
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[11:06] <cuddykid> jonsowman: good :) yep, launched last sat - was a great flight apart from complete camera failure!
[11:06] <cuddykid> run down can be see here - http://habexperiments.wordpress.com
[11:07] <jonsowman> excellent, will have a read shortly
[11:14] <fsphil> apex alpha?
[11:33] <Upu> fsphil http://77.75.187.5:8000/stream.ogg
[11:33] <Upu> just need to work out how to do video now
[11:34] <Upu> thats a capture from Xaben
[11:38] <fsphil> hmms.. played perfect in vlc, but not winamp
[11:39] <fsphil> aah, it's an mp3
[11:39] <fsphil> with an ogg extension
[11:39] <Upu> yeah just messing atm
[11:51] <Laurenceb> anyone here want £5 worth of stuff from farnell ?
[11:51] <Laurenceb> annoying £20 min order :(
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[12:34] <cuddykid> hmm, are there firework rockets without sticks attached?
[12:35] <cuddykid> don't really fancy having media attention for someone being stabbed by a flying rocket stick falling out of space lol
[12:41] <SamSilver_> bbl
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[13:12] <cuddykid> does a firework fuse contain it's own o2 supply? Wondering if it would burn properly in space
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[13:13] <russss> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visco_fuse
[13:13] <cuddykid> thanks
[13:14] <cuddykid> hmm, looks to be ok
[13:18] <fsphil> there will be some oxygen up there anyway
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[13:18] <BrainDamage> all self oxidizing mixtures, by defintion contain their own oxidants
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[13:21] <fsphil> heh, it's "National Kissing Day" today. thankfully nobody here knows
[13:21] Action: Upu puckers up
[13:22] <fsphil> and by here I mean, nobody in my office
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[13:23] <fsphil> cuddykid, what height and time of day are you planning to fire this at? I wonder if it would be visible here
[13:24] <cuddykid> fsphil, would be about 30km and currently just planning it for a normal launch so daytime (probably midday ish)
[13:24] <cuddykid> going to try it for HABE 2 - should launch august sometime when I get back of hol
[13:25] <cuddykid> emailed a local firework company to see what they think
[13:27] <Dan-K2VOL> lol if I recall cuddykid the goal of fireworks shows is to blow them up as low as possible so they look bigger
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[13:27] <cuddykid> lol Dan-K2VOL
[13:27] <cuddykid> a tiny dot in the sky
[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> heh, I bet the RAF will notice
[13:28] <cuddykid> possibly lol
[13:28] <cuddykid> the fighter jets won't be able to get that high though :P
[13:29] <cuddykid> current ignition system I'm thinking of is high powered capacitor with nichrome wire
[13:29] <BrainDamage> cuddykid: you should be able to get a decent amount of ammonium nitrate out of instant ice packs
[13:29] <BrainDamage> it's a powerful oxidizer
[13:30] <cuddykid> oh right, thanks BrainDamage :)
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[13:30] <BrainDamage> it's also used as fertilizer, but it might be regulated because it's sold in large amounts there
[13:30] <cuddykid> need a small vid camera - has anyone tried those really cheap "spy" cameras on eBay?
[13:30] <cuddykid> cool!
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[13:31] <cuddykid> bbl
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[13:33] <Dan-K2VOL> cuddykid yes, we've tried the keychain cams, they SUCK for interfacing to a micro
[13:33] <Dan-K2VOL> awful
[13:34] <Dan-K2VOL> why doesn't someone just sell tiny cams that have pre-made interfaces like: Pull high to turn on and start recording, pull low to stop recording and shut off.
[13:34] <BrainDamage> there are, but they tend to cost more & have a worse res :/
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[13:34] <BrainDamage> I've seen an auction for a decent cam tough, 3MP, with even microcontroller code
[13:34] <BrainDamage> sec
[13:36] <BrainDamage> http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270752614779&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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[13:37] <BrainDamage> damn, I allucinated the sample code :/
[13:41] <fsphil> A video version of the serial camera would be a nifty device
[13:41] <fsphil> just send it a command, and store the returned video data on sd card
[13:41] <fsphil> or even transmit it live
[13:42] <fsphil> nah, bitrate would never be low enough
[13:42] <Dan-K2VOL> ah someday fellows there will be satellite broadband internet for balloons
[13:43] <fsphil> I wonder if 1mbps wifi would work
[13:44] <fsphil> with a reasonably large ground antenna
[13:45] imrcly (~tim@74-128-123-149.dhcp.insightbb.com) got lost in the net-split.
[13:52] <daveake> You can get satellite modems ... dunno about weight / battery life though.
[13:53] <Dan-K2VOL> heh the hughesnet satellite home internet that we have in the states uses a pretty heavy dish
[13:54] <daveake> I've used satellite phones with just a rubber rod aerial thing
[13:54] <daveake> How well they cope with swinging about under a balloon though!
[14:03] <Dan-K2VOL> Hibby, shouldn't you be winging your way across the atlantic right now?
[14:04] <Dan-K2VOL> in case you're not already, you should take a look at this nifty map we use for White Star flight planning: http://50.16.222.54/whitestar/westbound.png
[14:04] <Dan-K2VOL> shows you the westbound North Atlantic Tracks that flights will take today
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[14:15] <fsphil> he probably flew over me
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[14:32] <ruku> can you use the chdk firmware and a little headphone plug to control the canons?
[14:43] <fsphil> I read about a hack where the usb cable could be used as a trigger to take a picture
[14:45] <daveake> There's a modified version of CHDK for stereo photography where they do that. Google "stereo chdk"; that should find it
[14:46] <daveake> You can use it for any number of cameras from 1 up - doesn't need to be stereo!
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[15:40] <cuddykid> got some lightweight plastic tubing from wickes to launch these rockets from
[15:45] <chris_99> what kind of rockets?
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[15:46] <cuddykid> chris_99: firework rocket lol :)
[15:46] <chris_99> ah, i used to fly model rockets, so was wondering if you meant that
[15:46] <chris_99> i love fireworks too :)
[15:46] <cuddykid> I hope to do model rockets soon
[15:46] <cuddykid> the "rockoon"
[15:47] <chris_99> i'd love to do one of those
[15:47] <cuddykid> yeah, I have very little experience with rockets (only fireworks!) so would need to get some experience in before I started playing around with model rockets!!
[15:49] <chris_99> the last time i flew one, the metal pole it flew from was bent, so it shot up at an angle, and as the parachute somehow wasn't packed properly, it failed to pop the nose cone open, so landed in the ground not far from the launch pad
[15:49] <chris_99> nose in the ground
[15:49] <cuddykid> oh dear
[15:50] <cuddykid> not the best of landings!
[15:50] <chris_99> no heh
[15:50] <chris_99> http://www.petapixel.com/2011/07/01/guy-mounts-camera-to-fireworks-to-capture-their-point-of-view/
[15:50] <chris_99> pretty funky
[15:50] <cuddykid> lol
[15:51] <cuddykid> haha that's brilliant
[15:51] <cuddykid> the problem I face is the wooden stick - landing on someone
[15:57] <cuddykid> what temp do li-pos go kaput at?
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[15:58] <fsphil> nigeys said his stopped working at -4c
[15:59] <cuddykid> ooo.. that's quite high - keychain video cam I was looking at has lipo - can't have that packing in
[16:01] <fsphil> the datasheet I have says 0 to 60 degrees is the range
[16:02] <fsphil> well, the preferred range
[16:02] <fsphil> not sure what that means
[16:02] <cuddykid> fsphil, have you tried these "spy" cams?
[16:02] <daveake> You can't charge li-ions below zero but they should work much lower. -20 at least IIRC
[16:03] <fsphil> it mentions the standard discharge range as -20 - 60
[16:03] <daveake> Sounds about right. Charge will be 0 to 45-ish
[16:03] <fsphil> cuddykid, I'm going to on the next launch. They're not really good at handing quick motion so I'm not expecting much
[16:04] <cuddykid> cool
[16:04] <cuddykid> how are you planning to operate them (on/off)?
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[16:05] <Laurenceb> http://physicsandphysicists.blogspot.com/2009/10/thorlabs-lab-snacks.html
[16:05] <Laurenceb> looool
[16:13] <fsphil> The plan atm is just turn them on moments before launch
[16:13] <fsphil> but I know they won't last long enough for the full flight
[16:17] <fsphil> I'd fly an hd-hero if I thought there was a really good chance I'd get it back
[16:19] <cuddykid> yeah
[16:19] <cuddykid> they're so small, so opening them up and soldering on/off switch would probably require a fair bit of skill which I don't have!
[16:20] <fsphil> yea - steady hand definitely needed
[16:20] <fsphil> I've got two here, one of them is not mine so hacking that is definitely a nono
[16:20] <cuddykid> other option is to make some sort of trigger out of motor/servo
[16:20] <fsphil> might try the other one
[16:20] <cuddykid> lol
[16:20] <fsphil> complicated and likely to fail :)
[16:21] <cuddykid> just hit the buy button..
[16:21] <cuddykid> £3.99
[16:21] <fsphil> sweet, including sd card?
[16:21] <cuddykid> nope
[16:22] <cuddykid> will have to scour the house for an old micro sd
[16:22] <fsphil> this one came with a card, but then cost twice as much
[16:22] <cuddykid> I want to be able to trigger the camera just before the firework is let off so I can get a decent vid - but that is going to prove tough I think
[16:25] <fsphil> I wonder if you can do it with chdk - the canon's can take reasonably good video
[16:25] <fsphil> though the odds of it pointing in the right direction when the firework goes off is not great
[16:25] <cuddykid> possibly, I remember hearing something about being able to trigger with usb lead?
[16:25] <cuddykid> yeah
[16:26] <fsphil> not sure - I know rjharrison was able to take video in sections
[16:26] <cuddykid> plus - I've had my fill of bloody chdk!
[16:26] <fsphil> yea!
[16:26] <cuddykid> haha
[16:26] <cuddykid> but yeah, if I can find a way to send command from arduino just before ignition is fired then that looks to be a good alternative
[16:27] <fsphil> I got two canon's for habbing, both have now died in the attempt :)
[16:27] <cuddykid> :(
[16:27] <fsphil> £10 each, can't complain
[16:27] <cuddykid> :O
[16:27] <cuddykid> where from?!
[16:27] <fsphil> ebay - guy selling two for £20
[16:27] <cuddykid> my a570 was about £60
[16:27] <cuddykid> nice
[16:28] <fsphil> they don't like getting wet
[16:28] <fsphil> suppose I could have made a more waterproof box
[16:28] <cuddykid> mine was wet with dew when I found it
[16:28] <fsphil> yea odd that
[16:29] <fsphil> though this one could have been too- I don't know
[16:29] <cuddykid> the lens took about an hour to dry off and picture back to normal
[16:29] <cuddykid> yeah
[16:29] <fsphil> I know the lens was clean when it landed, cause there's good pictures of the tree
[16:30] <fsphil> it might be that yours got too cold without taking pictures
[16:30] <cuddykid> yep, that's a possibiltiy
[16:30] <fsphil> then the damp air near the ground condensed
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[16:37] <cuddykid> any idea best way to advertise filling party balloons?
[16:48] <fsphil> fill up a few, and stand near an event :)
[16:49] <fsphil> failing that, gumtree?
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Go and stand outside a school with a cylinder?
[16:52] <cuddykid> yeah, schools I think will be the best option - however, most are nearing finishing round me
[16:52] <cuddykid> fsphil: never thought of gumtree!
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[17:15] <cuddykid> What's next - http://habexperiments.wordpress.com/what-next/
[17:16] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: What's next with the #HABE project? - http://t.co/m3w3fYf #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/88657531660009472]
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[17:37] <SpeedEvil> /pi/ping
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[18:13] <cuddykid> is there a symbol for NTX2 I can download somewhere for eagle?
[18:22] <NigeyS> robbie has it in the icarus library
[18:22] <NigeyS> http://www.robertharrison.org/files/eagle/Icarus.lbr
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[18:35] <guest> do you think it's possible to use pressurized air as ballast to compensate for day/night temp differences?
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Yes, but.
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> The energy in a pressurised gas is of the order of pressure * volume
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> So to compress from a few mB to - say 0.7Kg in 1m^3 will take on the order of 50KJ, or 13watt-hours
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[18:38] <SpeedEvil> And that's ideal.
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about the similar problem.
[18:39] <Dan-K2VOL> guest and the weight of a compressor is prohibitive
[18:39] <mixio> LASA-3 reached an altitude of 122,899' or about 37.4km which puts us at #2 in the record books.
[18:39] <Dan-K2VOL> and the pressure vessel
[18:39] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:39] <mixio> how they reached that far?
[18:39] <Dan-K2VOL> nice mixio, jcoxon
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> How do you do an efficient 'tent' for use on everest
[18:39] <mixio> here people say above 35km the balloon will float forever!
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Able to pump from - say - 0.2 bar to 0.6 bar or so, and recycle the energy in the exhaust.
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> mixio: They burst eventually due to UV
[18:40] <Randomskk> mixio: there's a variety of subtlety in the language we use, no one's said a balloon will float forever after precisely 35km
[18:40] <Dan-K2VOL> recycle the engergy into what, rechargeable batteries will not work at night without active heating
[18:40] <guest> how much weight change do we need to compensate for temp differences?
[18:40] <Randomskk> after all, nova 19 a few weeks back got to 36.2km
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: recycle the energy used in venting air from 0.6-0.2 bar, to compress the incoming air used for breathing.
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> guest, that depends on your temperature difference
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> which depends on your latitude, time of year, balloon envelope, and altitude
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> so there's no easy answer for that
[18:41] <guest> I am not sure how much it changes, what would be the maximum?
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> And colir of your balloon too
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> colour
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> guest: Several thousand tons.
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> For really big balloons.
[18:42] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, the size of your payload and balloon also affect it
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> There isn't a sensible maximum.
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[18:42] <guest> I meant amateur balloons with ~Kg payload
[18:42] <Dan-K2VOL> guest what is your goal, that might be easier to start with
[18:43] <guest> I am trying to understanding why it is so difficult to make a forever floating balloon.
[18:43] <guest> understand
[18:44] <mixio> i see
[18:44] <guest> a zero pressure balloon to be precise
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[18:45] <guest> will there be any leak when the balloon is at say 2/3 of its bursting altitude?
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> guest: The helium inside the balloon diffuses into the air.
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> And the heating of the balloon during the day causes the helium to want to expand, and come out.
[18:46] <guest> do you know how much that leak would be?
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[18:47] <SpeedEvil> It's unfortunately really hard to compute.
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[18:48] <guest> I found this link: http://www.noaa.inel.gov/capabilities/smartballoon/smartballoon.htm
[18:49] <guest> it's a similar idea I think, I am not sure how well it works though.
[18:50] <jcoxon> you'd do better with a super-pressure
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[18:51] <guest> yeah, are they expensive though?
[18:52] <guest> it seems amateurs go with zero pressure ones.
[18:52] <guest> helium leak might be more for a high pressure balloon too, right?
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> nice
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> i guess it avoids some of the helium leakage from superpressure
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[18:56] <guest> that's what I thought.
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[19:02] <guest> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=5+atm+*+1%2F8+m^3+in+watt+*+hour
[19:02] <guest> approx 750 grams of air
[19:03] <guest> requires ~ 18 Wh
[19:03] <guest> that can be done with a laptop battery
[19:04] <guest> I wonder how heavy the pump + container would be.
[19:04] <guest> or gas tank
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> That is completely neglecting everything, and assuming 100% efficiency
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> I would be surprised at 50%
[19:05] <guest> yeah I agree
[19:06] <guest> and we are pumping from almost zero pressure
[19:12] <guest> I guess I should just give it a try :)
[19:13] <guest> I should probably start with getting a nickname here.
[19:13] <guest> thanks a lot, this discussion was helpful.
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[19:38] <W0OTM> Hello World
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[19:41] <fsphil> bonjour!
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[19:48] <Laurenceb_> 5atm?!
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> why the hell would you be using those kind of pressures
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> that balloon will be running at way lower pressure
[19:49] <Laurenceb_> i guess 2l pop bottles at 150psi could be usable tho
[19:50] <Laurenceb_> ~25grams of air aiui
[19:53] <Laurenceb_> bottle is what? 40g?
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> thats require 10psi
[19:54] <cuddykid> cheers NigeyS
[19:55] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, he's gone
[19:55] Action: Laurenceb_ fails
[19:55] <Laurenceb_> durrrrrrr
[19:56] <Laurenceb_> anyway that link is interesting - they seem to have had issues with water on the envelope which might reflect what the transatlantic habs have suffered from
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[20:21] <Dan-K2VOL> Laurenceb_ water won't to be present in liquid form at 10km alt unless you're in a storm cloud
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[20:24] <jcoxon> urgh, mathematic failure
[20:24] <fsphil> 1+1=3?
[20:24] <jcoxon> in my head
[20:24] <jcoxon> so i've got an 85mAh lipo
[20:25] <jcoxon> and my setup turns on every 32 seconds for 5 seconds and uses 20mA
[20:25] <jcoxon> trying to work out how long the battery will last
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> sqrt(-1) ?
[20:26] <jonsowman> roughly 6 hours
[20:26] <jonsowman> er, 24 hours
[20:26] <jonsowman> slightly more than 24 in fact
[20:27] <Laurenceb_> does it run every 32 seconds or every 37 seconds
[20:27] <fsphil> 12.58 hours?
[20:27] <jcoxon> well there is a 32second gap between each 5 second 20mA run
[20:27] <Randomskk> 85/((5/32)*20) surely
[20:27] <Randomskk> ah
[20:28] <Randomskk> then 37 not 32 above
[20:28] <Randomskk> so I made it more like 32 hours. good range of results here :P
[20:28] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:28] <jcoxon> i don't feel so stupid
[20:28] <jonsowman> i think my mental approximations were perhaps a tad severe
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[20:30] <Laurenceb_> 31.4hours
[20:30] <jcoxon> cool well my little test is at 12hrs
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> whats the cell voltage?
[20:31] <jcoxon> well its a 3.7v lipo
[20:32] <Laurenceb_> i mean now, whats the voltage?
[20:33] <jcoxon> oh i'll measure it
[20:33] <Dan-K2VOL> hey jcoxon, any thoughts about more superpressures?
[20:34] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm trying to find a big metal tank that we could pull about .2 bar vacuum on to watch small sealed superpressure balloons pressurize.
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[20:37] <SpeedEvil> Wood
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> Get some 2.4*1.2m sheets of plywood, make a cube, internally brace to the required loading.
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> Cover with foil on the outside.
[20:38] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, 3.77v
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> sounds good
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> should cut out between 3 and 3.3v
[20:39] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, well as a side project i've been working on my super light payload
[20:39] <jcoxon> current payload is 30g
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> speedevil, I think that sounds like a lot of work for a plywood bomb:-P
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> very nice jcoxon
[20:39] <jcoxon> just working on the power saving bit
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[20:39] <jcoxon> got a solar panel!
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: GEtting significant sized metal tanks that can handle the pressure is going to be ... expensive.
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> you could try for an altitude record with that
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> using OS film zero pressure envelope
[20:40] <Dan-K2VOL> well, I don't plan to pay for a new tank, I'm looking for a used pressure vessel
[20:40] <Dan-K2VOL> like something from a food processing plant or something
[20:41] <Dan-K2VOL> or beer! Don't they do beer in big pressure vessels?
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> Pressure vessels will not usually safely hold vacuum
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[20:41] <SpeedEvil> They crumple
[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> well I have worked on boilers before that were rated to 13 bar, and things built to withstand that much pressure I am hazarding a guess will likely do ok with -.2 bar, considering it might draw a vacuum that much if you cooled it off when filled with steam
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> Tensile and compressive strength is very different in structures.
[20:44] <Randomskk> welllll
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> A unsupported tank can easily hold 13 bar, but it only needs to be the teenyest bit assymetric to yield to buckling.
[20:44] <Randomskk> yea
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[20:45] <Laurenceb_> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/14/apple_details_new_macbook_manufacturing_process.html
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> ^i dont get it... surely theres an easier way?
[20:46] <Dan-K2VOL> sure, which is why I'm looking for tanks that are rated for very high pressures and temperatures - they would likely also be designed to withstand a slight vacuum, due to the possibility of a vacuum being created on shutdown normally
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> die cast?
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> What sort of volume?>
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: diecast has issues with warping AIUI
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> 6m^3
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: Consider the forces - that's not really a hideously large amount to deal with with wood.
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> you will need a significant amount of strength members if you make it as a cube
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> buckyball XD
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> but it sure sounds like a massive amount of work to build and chase down leaks in a plywood vacuum chamber
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL: It's not a vacuum chamber
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[20:50] <SpeedEvil> Not by any meaningful meaning of the word if you only want .2 bar
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> Oh - .2 bar absolute or guage
[20:51] <Dan-K2VOL> gauge, so not much, 3 psi or so
[20:51] <Dan-K2VOL> below ambient
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> There are also other hacks you can do.
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Septic-tank-2-800-litres-600-gallon-480-VAT-/160607177214?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2564ef09fe
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> And then cover in concrete
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Or similar
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Use that as the vacuum vessel
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting
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[20:55] <SpeedEvil> I've been wondering about this, as I've been idly wondering about ways to rapidly vacuum impregnate solar panels
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: i was reading some forums - supposedly they die cast some of their models
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> wonder how much of the milling stuff is marketing
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[20:57] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if/when we'll see the amorphous metal diecast stuff coming
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> theres a factory near me that make alu alloy jcb parts
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> they cast then neaten up with cnc
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> IF you can actually get a series of CNC machines, all with the optimised bits, and flows and ... etup, it could be fairly quick to do
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> i needed some trailer parts - they used to make parts for the trailer and still had the G code files
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> managed to whack out the stuff on the cnc :P
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> You IP thief you!
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> heh
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> You wouldn't torrent a trailer would you?
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> only cost me £50, i was surprised
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[00:00] --- Thu Jul 7 2011