highaltitude.log.20110704

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[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> gn8
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[03:53] <Adi_> i need some info about the balloon predictor
[03:53] <Adi_> Me and my friends have launched a balloon on 26th
[03:53] <Adi_> and we couldn
[03:53] <Adi_> t retreive it
[03:54] <Adi_> we are planning to launch one more this coming saturday
[03:54] <Adi_> i need some help
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[06:43] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Whats an acceptable duty cycle for a payload?"
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[06:50] <eroomde> morning jcoxon
[06:53] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Whats an acceptable duty cycle for a payload?"
[06:53] <jcoxon> hey eroomde
[06:55] <eroomde> all well?
[06:55] <jcoxon> yes thanks
[06:55] <jcoxon> good flight yesterday
[06:55] <jcoxon> reminded me about floaters
[06:58] <griffonbot> Received email: John Underwood "Re: [UKHAS] Whats an acceptable duty cycle for a payload?"
[07:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Neil Baker "Re: [UKHAS] Whats an acceptable duty cycle for a payload?"
[07:03] <rebel4life2> morgen
[07:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron "Re: [UKHAS] Whats an acceptable duty cycle for a payload?"
[07:18] <eroomde> morgen rebel4life2
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[07:24] <Upu> morning
[07:24] <mixio> morning
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[07:35] <Upu> quick question how long before a launch do you normally get the NOTAM ?
[07:36] <eroomde> can of worms
[07:36] <eroomde> it's usually issued for the day you ask for, if you're getting that kind of notam
[07:36] <eroomde> vut getting that done in time can be difficult
[07:36] <eroomde> but*
[07:37] <eroomde> we have a rolling 6 month notam, which increasing our options
[07:38] <Upu> well applied for a specific date
[07:39] <Upu> we might try extend it later
[07:39] <eroomde> wel, the issue is that the chap in charge doesn't seem as on top of things as i would like
[07:39] <eroomde> so chase it up if it's getting close
[07:40] <Upu> I did last week and he said provisonally it should be ok
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[07:54] <mixio> my lens after the sea water crash tests :(
[07:54] <mixio> http://imagebin.org/161349
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[08:58] <mixio> I found helium in my city. 17.5E/cubic meter !
[09:01] <Upu> you'll need a truck
[09:02] <mixio> what?
[09:02] <fsphil> that seems cheap
[09:03] <mixio> CRSF calculator says i need 3 cubic meters launch volume
[09:03] <mixio> for 1500 balloon
[09:03] <mixio> with 900gr payload
[09:04] <mixio> He told me its that cheap cause he buys it wholesale
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[09:12] <Upu> on 17.5euros per cubic meter sorry, I thought you gad 17.5 cubic meters :)
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[09:13] <mixio> :P
[09:13] <mixio> fsphil: that radiometrix is killing me
[09:20] <mixio> I want to give to CUSF calculator the value of 1600kg but it has only fixed values eg: 1500,2000
[09:22] <Randomskk> for balloons?
[09:22] <mixio> yes
[09:22] <Randomskk> 1600kg is a really hardcore balloon
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[09:22] <Randomskk> however the issue is that the appropriate data for burst diameter is only known for certain balloons
[09:22] <mixio> http://www.randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[09:22] <Randomskk> if you're using a 1600g balloon then it's not one we have burst data for
[09:22] <mixio> sells only 1600kg balloons
[09:22] <Randomskk> and so can't do the predictions
[09:23] <Randomskk> (I think you mean 1600g, not 1600kg)
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[09:23] <mixio> yes
[09:24] <Upu> I'm using 1600g balloon
[09:24] <Upu> could do with the burst calc having the Hwoyee balloons added
[09:25] <Randomskk> we need burst data to do that, which is tricky
[09:25] <Randomskk> it would probably require flying a few flights of every balloon at very high ascent rates to ensure burst due to expansion
[09:25] <Laurenceb> we should try a nigh launch
[09:25] <Randomskk> but all the hwoyee flights of large balloons recently have floated at altitude
[09:26] <Laurenceb> less uv
[09:27] <mixio> ok, I need a store which sells 1500g kaymont balloons.
[09:27] <Randomskk> just buy the 1600g and assume it'l be a lot like the 1500g
[09:27] <Randomskk> in reality it'l probably float unless you fill it a fair bit
[09:27] <Randomskk> in fact I think all the hwoyee launches I've seen/heard about have done the floating thing
[09:28] <mixio> with 900g payload and 1500g balloon laucnh volume is 3.05cubic meters.
[09:28] <mixio> if I fill it with more helium it will burst earlier?
[09:29] <mixio> i mean if i choose the 1600g balloon how much should be the launch volume?
[09:30] <Randomskk> well it depends on desired ascent rate etc
[09:30] <mixio> hwoyee.com sells 1500g balloons
[09:30] <Randomskk> you'll probably find that's a lot more hassle to order from, and 1500g hwoyee balloons are still not the same as the 1500g on the calculator
[09:32] <mixio> 1500g | NECK DIAMETER(cm) d8.3, DIAMETER AT BURST(cm) 950 burst alt: 35000
[09:32] <Randomskk> do they have that information on the 1600g balloons?
[09:33] <mixio> yes, its all here
[09:33] <mixio> VERAGE
[09:33] <mixio> BURSTING
[09:33] <mixio> ALTITUDE
[09:33] <mixio> (m)
[09:33] <mixio> oops
[09:33] <mixio> http://www.hwoyee.com/base.asp?ScClassid=521&id=521102
[09:33] <mixio> Can that information help you with the calculator?
[09:34] <Randomskk> yes, if it's accurate
[09:34] <mixio> :)
[09:34] <mixio> So can u help me now?
[09:34] <Randomskk> yea
[09:35] <mixio> So I need a 1500g hwoyee balloon and attach it a ~900g payload.
[09:36] <Randomskk> the 1600g hwoyee would be fine
[09:36] <mixio> yes I need to know time to burst, max altitude, ascent rate...
[09:37] <Randomskk> yea, I'll put the 1500 in the calculator
[09:37] <Randomskk> 1600*
[09:37] <mixio> but you said 1600 kaymont is not same as 1600 hwoyee
[09:37] <mixio> how calculator knows which balloon i will have?
[09:38] <Randomskk> it'l be an option
[09:38] <mixio> You can do it now?
[09:38] <Randomskk> it'l just take a couple of minutes
[09:38] <mixio> ah nice
[09:40] <Upu> hwoyee balloons have been floating recently
[09:40] <Randomskk> yea, so their "burst diameters" are a little confusing, but I don't think it'l be simple to extend the calculator's altitude model for whatever effect is causing float just yet
[09:41] <Randomskk> I'll have it pop up a warning if burst altitude is above 35km I guess
[09:42] <mixio> how much time it will float?
[09:42] <mixio> considerable amount ?
[09:45] <Randomskk> depends on altitude
[09:45] <mixio> 35 to 36km
[09:45] <Randomskk> I'd try to aim for a burst at like 34km or so
[09:45] <Randomskk> less likely to float
[09:45] <Randomskk> above 35km it'l probably float, for ages
[09:45] <mixio> omg !
[09:45] <mixio> :(:(
[09:46] <Upu> floating is bad as you have to drive to Wales :)
[09:46] <mixio> the kaymont wont float?
[09:46] <Randomskk> any balloon is likely to float if it gets to >35km
[09:46] <Randomskk> just the kaymonts are likely to burst first
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[09:47] <mixio> but hwoyee.com says 1500g will burst at at 35km
[09:48] <Randomskk> actual burst diameter depends entirely on fill
[09:48] <griffonbot> @jgrahamc: Really short video of me tracking the #ukhas #arhab XABEN which went on an epic cross country float yesterday: http://t.co/E3vKLwC [http://twitter.com/jgrahamc/status/87819978509791232]
[09:48] <Randomskk> uh, altitude, sorry
[09:48] <NigelMoby> Morning
[09:48] <Randomskk> the altitudes they list assume a fill level
[09:48] <Upu> morning
[09:48] <NigelMoby> Hey upu
[09:49] <NigelMoby> Did Steve recover the payload?
[09:50] <Upu> he did
[09:51] <NigelMoby> Sweet, that was an epic flight
[09:52] <mixio> oh, im really confused now.
[09:53] <NigelMoby> What's confused you ?
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[09:57] <fsphil> these little lipo batteries are really nifty
[09:58] <fsphil> test payload (missing gps to be fair) still going for 10 hours - and it's a tiny battery
[09:59] <Upu> hmm
[09:59] <Upu> https://sites.google.com/site/potentvoyager/
[09:59] <Upu> anyone from that team on here ?
[10:03] <Randomskk> okay, mixio and everyone really, http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[10:03] <Randomskk> absolutely no promises on accuracy of the hwoyee data
[10:04] <NigelMoby> Interesting upu
[10:04] <NigelMoby> But impossible
[10:05] <mixio> I have sent a mail to hwoyee to ask more details about launch volumes
[10:08] <cuddykid> Hi all
[10:08] <mixio> so the hwoyee will float at 35km altitude ?
[10:09] <cuddykid> On page 3 in the local newspaper today - despite camera failure!
[10:09] <Randomskk> mixio: it looks like all balloons will do a kind of float above approximately 35km
[10:09] <Randomskk> recently hwoyee balloons have got above 35km, so floated, while normally kaymont balloons burst before that
[10:10] <fsphil> congrats cuddykid :)
[10:11] <cuddykid> cheers fsphil :) the bbc have just tweeted me too - giving them a call in a few mins
[10:11] <jgrahamc> cuddykid: who are you talking to at the BBC? I know lots of people there.
[10:12] <cuddykid> looks like a local journalist - called Manish Verma
[10:12] <cuddykid> he's also tweeted jcoxon
[10:12] <jgrahamc> Neat. Good luck with the story.
[10:13] <cuddykid> cheers - should hopefully help put HABing back on the map again - people will probably remember after all the coverage rjharrison got
[10:14] <fsphil> hehe, lipo safety document: http://www.rctoys.com/pr/2006/10/20/safe-use-document-thunder-power-lithium-polymer-batteries/
[10:15] <fsphil> to sum it up, essentially: lipo batteries may cause fire
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[10:18] <cuddykid> fsphil: good job my backup tracker uses li-ion ones :)
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[10:22] <SamSilver_> bbl
[10:22] <fsphil> I don't think lipo's like the cold anyway
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[10:22] <fsphil> probably wouldn't work well really high up
[10:22] <fsphil> worth a test though!
[10:22] <NigeyS> mine stopped working at -4 phil :|
[10:23] <fsphil> eek
[10:23] <NigeyS> when i freeze tested picochu-1
[10:23] <BrainDamage> fsphil: not as entertaining as all lithiu batteries on dealextreme.com containing "fire" in the brand name, so you get SureFire" or TrustFire" or FandyFire"
[10:24] <fsphil> haha - couldn't get much worse, unless they called it "ExplodoEnergy"
[10:24] <NigeyS> lmao
[10:28] <fsphil> NigeyS, was the freeze test without insulation?
[10:28] <NigeyS> no, it was wrapped in bubble wrap, and a piece of thermal mylar stuff
[10:30] <Upu> Hey BrainDamage I just recieved 2 trustfire batteries and a 1200 lumen torch that has a strobe a la "Hit Girl" mode on it :)
[10:31] <BrainDamage> I have one of those too, mine is "only" 350 lm, and the extra flashing modes ( sos & strobe ) are annoying me, because I cannot remove & have to cycle them
[10:32] <NigeyS> fsphil, pm
[10:33] <eroomde> mixio: maybe just sloppy language but you definitely can't infer something like 'so the hwoyee will float at 35km altitude ?
[10:33] <eroomde> just from yesterday's flight
[10:33] <NigeyS> morning Ed
[10:34] <eroomde> clearly it did float yesterday, but that doesn't support a statement implying that therefore this balloon is inherently floaty
[10:34] <eroomde> morning NigeyS
[10:34] <eroomde> mixio: what some people think it might be to do with is when you have a very low ascent rate
[10:34] <eroomde> and a not very highly filled balloon
[10:34] <cuddykid> can anyone explain why the alt vs time graph of mine started to curve off (as though it was going to float) right before burst?
[10:35] <NigeyS> im tempted to try a 600g ballon with a 200gm payload at 2m/s to see what happens
[10:35] <eroomde> that instead of bursting like usual, there is sufficiently little force from the gas pressure inside the balloon that it doesn't burst open but instead reaches equilibrium
[10:35] <eroomde> cuddykid: see above
[10:35] <eroomde> for a possible one
[10:35] <cuddykid> thanks eroomde
[10:35] <cuddykid> I see
[10:36] <eroomde> so at the point at which the balloon would usually burst, instead it held, and the helium pressure inside increased realtive to outside
[10:36] <eroomde> which reduced the lift
[10:36] <eroomde> until eventually the pressure difference between inside and out was sufficient that all the lift had gone, and it just maintained neutral bouyancy
[10:37] <cuddykid> yeah
[10:38] <eroomde> but we won't really know until we fly a better instrumented balloon
[10:38] <eroomde> having the differential pressure between inside and outside the balloon would be *really* useful
[10:38] <NigeyS> eroomde, working on it ;)
[10:38] <NigeyS> a recommendation is a wireless sensor in the balloon neck
[10:39] <eroomde> if one say the pressure difference increase as the float started to happen, that would nicely support the hypothesis
[10:39] <eroomde> s/say/saw
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[10:50] <eroomde> NigelMoby: i'll have a look at pressure sensors
[10:50] <eroomde> will be very cool to see your payload fly!
[10:52] <fsphil> a little computer in the neck of the balloon, with a ridged wire sticking up into the balloon with a pressure sensor
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[10:52] <eroomde> the pressure in the neck will probably be the same as in the balloon
[10:53] <eroomde> i was thinking something built into a legnth of pcb tube to sit in the neck
[10:53] <fsphil> yea
[10:53] <eroomde> and include a quick-release pneumatic fitting onboard which you attach to the helium hoze to fill
[10:53] <fsphil> combine it with the filler
[10:53] <eroomde> you could even build in a ball valve so the flight computer could open a vent
[10:54] <eroomde> something like a ping-pong balloon being sprung-pushed against an o-ring. when helium is being put in from the bottom it would overcome the spring force to let the helium in, but you could also have something like muscle-wire so the flight computer can pull the balloon away from the o-ring against the force of the springs
[10:55] <eroomde> maybe not on v1 though :)
[10:55] <eroomde> pcb tube 4 messages up should be 'pvc' tube
[10:55] <fsphil> would need to be well tested a low temperatures
[10:55] <eroomde> freudian typing
[10:55] <fsphil> or you could end up with a slow leak
[10:55] <eroomde> yes indeed
[10:56] <eroomde> but at least initally, a quick-release fitting like we have on our fill-rig now, built into the neck flight computer, would work quite well i think
[10:56] <fsphil> which appears to me the worst case scenario for a baloon flight
[10:56] <eroomde> slow leak?
[10:57] <fsphil> yea, it would probably float up slowly, then descent slowly
[10:57] <fsphil> never bursting
[10:57] <eroomde> yes
[10:57] <eroomde> and you end up driving to wales
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[10:57] <fsphil> or in my case, yorkshire :)
[10:58] <eroomde> at least there are habbers in yorkshire!
[10:58] <fsphil> very true
[10:59] <fsphil> my idea for the pico flight was a narrow tube, with the flight pcb not much bigger than the ntx2
[10:59] <eroomde> i tried that once
[10:59] <eroomde> a long thin tube - 2xAA, pcb, ntx2
[10:59] <jgrahamc> Yesterday's flight was epic. It was amazing how well I could hear the telemetry in London given all the QRM I have to deal with (live under the LHR approach and every time a plane goes over there's all sorts of crap).
[11:00] <Laurenceb> i made a valve using servo and polypipe valve
[11:00] <jgrahamc> Pretty sure that RocketBoy sent something up with 10MW instead of 10mW
[11:00] <eroomde> jgrahamc: yes it was good wasn't it!
[11:00] <eroomde> a good antenna and favourable atmospheric conditions
[11:01] <jgrahamc> Yes, there must have been really good UHF propagation for me to be able to hear it because I didn't even need to go up on my roof, just in the back garden (terraced houses all packed together) and a bit of sweeping around with the Yagi to find the right direction.
[11:01] <fsphil> the planes may actually have helped
[11:02] <fsphil> reflecting some of the signal
[11:02] <jgrahamc> Perhaps, although mostly they reflect all sorts of crap at me.
[11:04] <jgrahamc> On a related note. Are there any fellow radio amateurs in this group who are close to me in Fulham?
[11:05] <eroomde> used to live near guildford
[11:05] <eroomde> although that's of not much use to you now
[11:06] <jgrahamc> I've tried to find some local amateurs to chat with, but I think I'm going to have to buy an HF radio and talk to someone far away. It's rare that I'll get any response on local repeaters.
[11:07] <jgrahamc> BTW eroomde are you still in Cambridge these days?
[11:07] <eroomde> moving to Oxford this week
[11:07] <fsphil> similar here -- though I always thought that was because it's quite a rural area
[11:07] <eroomde> I've just acquired a very exciting job
[11:08] <jgrahamc> Neat. Are you at liberty to tell me who it's with?
[11:09] <eroomde> yep indeed! It's working on plantary landing system and the company is called Vorticity Ltd
[11:09] <eroomde> vorticity-systems.com
[11:09] <eroomde> they're the team who designed and built the huygens landing system, among lots of other things
[11:10] <jgrahamc> Now THAT is cool.
[11:10] <eroomde> i'll initially be working on ExoMars, doing a full-scale parachute system test with a 700kg drop vehicle from an enormous balloon, up at a test range in the arctic circle
[11:10] <fsphil> very very cool
[11:10] <eroomde> this: http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/stories/2011/CU_Spaceflight/ but very scaled up
[11:11] <eroomde> hobby has become profession. I am now looking for a new hobby
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[11:11] <fsphil> need help tracking? :)
[11:12] <eroomde> that would be some serious signal propagation
[11:13] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Jimr15cjs&NR=1
[11:13] <fsphil> I can travel lol
[11:13] <eroomde> :)
[11:13] <Laurenceb> nice work
[11:13] <eroomde> we'll be doing the test in august next year - apparently it's very much not 'arctic-ey' in august
[11:14] <jgrahamc> So if they need an engineering manager I'm available :-)
[11:14] <eroomde> instead is a midge nightmare
[11:14] <eroomde> like scotland but worse
[11:14] <cuddykid> awesome eroomde
[11:14] <Laurenceb> has this been dropped in freefall yet?
[11:14] <eroomde> Laurenceb: our vehicle?
[11:14] <eroomde> yes
[11:14] <eroomde> check the link to the paper
[11:14] <eroomde> there are some nie results
[11:14] <eroomde> nice*
[11:15] <eroomde> junderwood_M0JCU is actually pricipal engineer at vorticity
[11:15] <eroomde> but he got the hab bug
[11:16] <eroomde> he's just north of oxford which is why he can track almost every hab launch quite well
[11:16] <Laurenceb> ooh that pitot setup looks familiar xD
[11:16] <eroomde> :)
[11:17] <jgrahamc> Very cool stuff
[11:17] <jgrahamc> BTW I'm 99% certain that I'm going to do a GAGA-2.
[11:17] <eroomde> so yep, i start monday next week
[11:17] <eroomde> ah brilliant
[11:17] <eroomde> with a single-piece mould?
[11:17] <mixio> Anyone have tried parachute swivels?
[11:17] <jgrahamc> Good news on the job.
[11:17] <eroomde> mixio: yep
[11:17] <Darkside> are scanners illegal in the UK?
[11:17] <eroomde> but don't really see the need for most of our stuff
[11:17] <eroomde> Darkside: no?
[11:18] <Darkside> ok
[11:18] <mixio> eroomde: they are used to prevent the payload from spinning?
[11:18] <eroomde> mixio: what do you have in mind?
[11:18] <jgrahamc> Yes, planning to make my own mold and then use polyurethane foam.
[11:18] <eroomde> excellent
[11:18] <eroomde> and any specific mission objectives?
[11:18] <eroomde> mixio: usually we quite want a bit of spinning!
[11:18] <Laurenceb> has this been published?
[11:18] <eroomde> otherwise all the pictures are boring :)
[11:18] <eroomde> Laurenceb: yes
[11:18] <Laurenceb> nice work
[11:18] <eroomde> from TFA: "The team recently presented their work at the 21st AIAA Aerodynamic Decelerator Systems Conference in Dublin, where it took first place in the Best Student Paper competition."
[11:19] <jgrahamc> Goal for GAGA-2 will be to be really light. Going to cut back most of the stuff inside and plan to go for altitude and switch on a tiny video camera as I'd like to video the balloon burst and parachute open.
[11:19] <Laurenceb> well done
[11:19] <eroomde> excellent
[11:19] <mixio> eroomde: so they are used as a payload antispin mechanism?
[11:19] <eroomde> balloon burst videos are really interesting
[11:19] <eroomde> mixio: yes
[11:19] <Laurenceb> eroomde: instrumentation amp on the pitot sensor?
[11:19] <eroomde> they are often used in things like artillery shells
[11:19] <jgrahamc> Don't care about the photographing the horizon thing: been there, done that :-) (with your help)
[11:20] <fsphil> the picture I got of the very tiny moon has me interested in doing more sky shots
[11:20] <eroomde> mixio: complicated modern artillery shells are spun when fired down the barrel, but often deploy a chute to slow themselves (in some cases). That's an example of where a parachute swivel is used
[11:20] <eroomde> jgrahamc: I agree with you infact
[11:20] <eroomde> steve and i were saying this yesterday
[11:20] <jgrahamc> Yes, fsphil. I got a moon shot on GAGA-1.
[11:21] <eroomde> there's only so many pictures of clouds you can find interesting
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[11:21] <jgrahamc> fsphil: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aNba7OFxjMo/TaIrLfwBtBI/AAAAAAAAAiQ/ClWiBLCOEJQ/s1600/IMG_4335.JPG
[11:21] <cuddykid> eeek - going on local BBC radio live later
[11:21] <jgrahamc> Good luck cuddykid
[11:21] <mixio> I need a simple swivel that will prevent the payload from spinning
[11:21] <fsphil> woo cuddykid :)
[11:21] <eroomde> fsphil: in the video in that article, we get the moon at 42 seconds
[11:22] <cuddykid> thanks guys
[11:22] <fsphil> oh excellent jgrahamc, beats mine
[11:22] <eroomde> cuddykid: good luck!
[11:22] <Laurenceb> eroomde: how do you interface to the pitot sensor?
[11:22] <fsphil> will watch later eroomde
[11:22] <Laurenceb> instrumentation amp?
[11:22] <jgrahamc> I mean it was cool, eroomde, to take those pictures, but I was more fascinated by the technical aspects. So going to see how light I can make things and see how high it can go.
[11:22] <mixio> who recovered his payload yesterday? Do we have any pics :
[11:22] <mixio> ?
[11:22] <jgrahamc> Also, I really need to go do the other two amateur radio exams.
[11:23] <jgrahamc> Incredibly lucky with that shot fsphil.
[11:23] <fsphil> jgrahamc, here's mine: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5892630420/
[11:24] <fsphil> very tiny, I almost missed it
[11:24] <jgrahamc> Pity about the sun fsphil
[11:25] <fsphil> yea - three day old moon, I wasn't going to avoid the sun
[11:26] <eroomde> Laurenceb: sorry yes
[11:26] <cuddykid> http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/9119934.Teen_s_balloon_feat_goes_sky_high___video/
[11:26] <eroomde> can't remember which one otoh
[11:26] <Laurenceb> i see
[11:26] <Laurenceb> whats the nois elike?
[11:27] <fsphil> mixio, I'm not sure xaben carried a camera
[11:28] <eroomde> cuddykid: excellent article
[11:29] <WillDuckworth> cuddykid, that pic shows i need to lose that beer belly...
[11:29] <mixio> static cord 1mm or 2mm? For a payload <1kg
[11:29] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: just the man! - was going to email you earlier
[11:29] <cuddykid> haha
[11:30] <cuddykid> 3rd page of worcester news - also, bbc h&w @ 5:20 this afternoon! - not sure what to expect :S!
[11:32] <WillDuckworth> excellent
[11:32] <mixio> cuddykid: you did a launch?
[11:32] <cuddykid> mixio: yeah, on sat afternoon
[11:33] <mixio> got it back?
[11:33] <cuddykid> yeah, camera didn't work though :(
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[11:33] <mixio> congragulations
[11:33] <cuddykid> thanks :)
[11:33] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[11:34] <cuddykid> but huge thanks to WillDuckworth who helped with filling, the dreaded knots, tracking, and many other bits & pieces!
[11:34] <WillDuckworth> no probs - it was good fun!
[11:34] <cuddykid> yeah, was great fun
[11:34] <cuddykid> gutted I'm missing your launch
[11:35] <WillDuckworth> the other half even enjoyed herself
[11:35] <WillDuckworth> any joy on another balloon this week?
[11:35] <cuddykid> good to hear
[11:35] <cuddykid> urm, probably not :(
[11:35] <cuddykid> predictions look dire
[11:36] <fsphil> is there anyone else launching this weekend?
[11:36] <mixio> sat afternoon i was testing my payload on seawater: http://imagebin.org/161361, http://imagebin.org/161363
[11:36] <mixio> cuddykid: so u got no pics?
[11:37] <cuddykid> mixio, yeah 0 photos
[11:37] <mixio> :9
[11:37] <mixio> :(
[11:37] <cuddykid> camera shut down after launch sequence
[11:37] <mixio> why?
[11:37] <cuddykid> seems to be because I changed the sleep time from 600000 to 1000000
[11:37] <cuddykid> still not sure why an extra few mins caused it to shut down
[11:38] <mixio> mhhhhhhhh
[11:38] <cuddykid> I wonder whether it could handle the extra digit
[11:38] <fsphil> the counter may never have went that high
[11:39] <cuddykid> fsphil: that's the current explanation yeah :(
[11:41] <fsphil> strange that it still clicked though -- I wonder if it was the autofocus you heard
[11:41] <cuddykid> possibly - just ran the script again, and it just shuts down after start up - the lens remains out
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[11:44] <jgrahamc> cuddykid: what language were you using?
[11:44] <cuddykid> basic
[11:44] <cuddykid> the chdk one
[11:45] <jgrahamc> Ah, uBasic. It really sucks.
[11:45] <cuddykid> yep
[11:45] <fsphil> it very sucks
[11:45] <cuddykid> just uploaded a fresh copy onto memory card - see what happens
[11:46] <cuddykid> no, bam, shuts down
[11:46] <cuddykid> will try with 900 000
[11:46] <jgrahamc> On GAGA-1 I wrote the initial camera script in uBasic and then couldn't take it any more and rewrote in Lua
[11:47] <jgrahamc> Almost certainly you are looking at an aritmetic overflow problem.
[11:47] <eroomde> i have a good mental image of that kind of nervous breakdown
[11:48] <cuddykid> yeah, there's no other explanation
[11:48] <cuddykid> timer probably counts to 999 999 not 1 000 000
[11:49] <cuddykid> yep with 9 instead of 10, appears to work
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[11:49] <cuddykid> damn
[11:50] <jgrahamc> Internally variables are passed around as C int's, but they storage array for them is declared as static char variables[MAX_VARNUM];
[11:54] <jgrahamc> Ah, in the actual CHDK code they fixed that problem and do static int variables[MAX_VARNUM];
[11:54] <jgrahamc> https://tools.assembla.com/chdk/browser/trunk/lib/ubasic/ubasic.c#L114
[11:54] <cuddykid> ahh
[11:55] <cuddykid> I'm using a CHDK revision from about 1 year 1/2 ago.. so wonder if mine is int
[11:57] <cuddykid> problem found - max integer uBasic will accept is 999 999
[11:57] <cuddykid> bam - problem identified
[11:58] <fsphil> guess they don't test for overflow errors?
[11:58] <eroomde> ah yes, because 999999 is 2 to the power of... oh no wait
[11:58] <eroomde> :|
[11:59] <fsphil> seems a very arbitrary limit
[11:59] <fsphil> unless they store them as ascii characters?
[11:59] <cuddykid> yeah, not sure why - only found that from 1 source (so might not be accurate)
[11:59] <jgrahamc> Totally arbitrary limit given that they are using a C int.
[11:59] <cuddykid> but would seem to tie in with the workings so far
[12:04] <fsphil> anyone know of a little SD-card camera that doesn't have progressive scan?
[12:11] <jgrahamc> Looking through the source code of uBasic under CHDK they do a bunch of naughty stuff. atoi is #defined to be a call to strtol which means they do a long conversion first and then shove it into an int: https://tools.assembla.com/chdk/browser/trunk/include/stdlib.h#L119
[12:14] <griffonbot> Received email: daveake "[UKHAS] Registering on the tracker"
[12:15] <jgrahamc> If there's any difference in length between an int and a long inside the camera that is naughty. Also strtol does automatic detection of base (whereas atoi isn't meant to IIRC)
[12:16] <jgrahamc> Yep, they are allowing it to do base conversion whereas atoi is meant to only do base 10. Naughty.
[12:17] <fsphil> why do that though, instead of just using strtol
[12:17] <jgrahamc> cuddykid: I'm interested in the problem you encountered. Could you put your code in a pastebin somewhere?
[12:18] <cuddykid> jgrahamc: no problem will do so
[12:18] <jgrahamc> Thanks.
[12:19] <cuddykid> http://pastebin.com/YawDWpS0
[12:19] <cuddykid> line 158 is the problem
[12:19] <cuddykid> if I change that "9" to a "10" it shuts the camera down
[12:27] <jgrahamc> Weird. That's just ends up calling action_push_delay() which takes a long as an argument.
[12:27] <jgrahamc> Then further on down the line the int returned by atoi (which turned into a long) turns into an unsigned long: https://tools.assembla.com/chdk/browser/trunk/core/action_stack.c#L17
[12:29] <jgrahamc> Later on it gets added to something which is defined as just 'unsigned': https://tools.assembla.com/chdk/browser/trunk/core/action_stack.c#L181
[12:30] <Laurenceb> some datatype limit?
[12:31] <jgrahamc> It would be surprising if the datatype limit was 999999
[12:33] <cuddykid> hmm
[12:34] <jgrahamc> Just going to grab the full source tree and have a look
[12:34] <Laurenceb> try 999999
[12:35] <Upu> using a A560 cuddykid ?
[12:35] <cuddykid> A570 Upu
[12:35] <cuddykid> Laurenceb - will do that now
[12:35] <Laurenceb> would be odd but worth a try
[12:35] <Upu> 1 sec
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[12:36] <Laurenceb> is there a way to do serial comms with chdk?
[12:36] <cuddykid> running now..
[12:36] <cuddykid> Laurenceb: not that I'm aware of
[12:37] <eroomde> Laurenceb: there was some effort put into that
[12:37] <eroomde> using the usb's 5v line as a soft uart
[12:37] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:37] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/7LKFHYJK
[12:37] <eroomde> bodgetastic
[12:37] <Upu> that was mine
[12:37] <jgrahamc> "However, due to a bug in the current main release, values greater than 6 decimal digits cannot be assigned (i.e. 999,999 is the current maximum decimal value) "
[12:37] <Laurenceb> oops
[12:37] <cuddykid> ahh
[12:37] <Darkside> looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
[12:38] <cuddykid> that is very gutting!!!
[12:38] <cuddykid> just 1 less millisecond and it would've been fine!
[12:38] <cuddykid> yep 999 999 working
[12:38] <jgrahamc> cuddykid: I'm sorry you didn't get any pictures because of this kind of shit, but this kind of shit is what a lot of programming turns out to be about.
[12:38] <Laurenceb> eroomde: do you have an photos of the badger daughterboard
[12:38] <Laurenceb> cant you just loop and delay in the loop?
[12:38] <eroomde> not atm i'm afriad
[12:38] <cuddykid> jgrahamc - no problem - quite annoying!
[12:39] <eroomde> haven't transfered stuff over to the new pc
[12:39] <eroomde> what do you want to know?
[12:39] <Laurenceb> k nvm
[12:39] <Laurenceb> just the pitot interface
[12:39] <Darkside> cuddykid: hey, don't worry - if i fuck up it'll be a shitload worse :-)
[12:39] <Laurenceb> sensor - instrumentation amp - adc?
[12:39] <Darkside> as my payload will be in space...
[12:39] <cuddykid> haha Darkside!
[12:39] <jgrahamc> Oh, I'd like to shake the MF who wrote this code: https://tools.assembla.com/chdk/browser/trunk/lib/ubasic/tokenizer.c#L48
[12:39] <jgrahamc> #define MAX_NUMLEN 6
[12:39] <cuddykid> Darkside: how come? you rockooning?
[12:40] <Darkside> cuddykid: working on a cubesat payload
[12:40] <Darkside> UKube-1
[12:40] <cuddykid> Darkside: v nice!
[12:40] <jgrahamc> https://tools.assembla.com/chdk/browser/trunk/lib/ubasic/tokenizer.c#L282
[12:40] <cuddykid> how much do they cost?
[12:40] <Laurenceb> a LOT
[12:40] <cuddykid> lol
[12:40] <Darkside> few hundred thousand pounds to launch?
[12:40] <eroomde> i think less
[12:40] <cuddykid> wow
[12:40] <Laurenceb> nprize ftw
[12:40] <eroomde> something like £30k to launch a cubesat
[12:40] <eroomde> that was the sort of figure ISI was quoting
[12:41] <eroomde> ISIS*
[12:41] <cuddykid> I'll just get that from my money tree... brb... lol
[12:41] <Laurenceb> eroomde: basically im interested in the intrinsic sensor noise from those 26pc sensors
[12:41] <Laurenceb> im seeing 12pa rms noise but i think its almost all emi
[12:41] <eroomde> lol
[12:41] <eroomde> yes it probably is
[12:41] <Laurenceb> my target is 1pa for the uav to work well
[12:41] <eroomde> so...
[12:42] <eroomde> all our pitot noise seemed to be coming in discrete 10s long batches
[12:42] <jgrahamc> hey, but don't worry this bug has only been known about since 2007: https://tools.assembla.com/chdk/changeset?new=trunk%2Flib%2Fubasic%2Ftokenizer.c%409&old=trunk%2Flib%2Fubasic%2Ftokenizer.c%405
[12:42] <eroomde> then 20s of very low noise
[12:42] <Laurenceb> do you actually see the noise or arent there enoug bits?
[12:42] <eroomde> turns out it correlated perfectly with when we were sending telemetry
[12:42] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:42] <eroomde> oh no, we saw the noise for sure
[12:43] Action: Laurenceb has ltc2481 (256x pga + 17bit adc)
[12:43] <Laurenceb> i can get down to ~1lsb noise... if i short in inputs XD
[12:44] <Laurenceb> how much noise in the quiet periods?
[12:44] <Laurenceb> s/in/the
[12:44] <eroomde> enough that we didn't bother us. i can't give you a number
[12:44] <eroomde> it didn't bother us*
[12:45] <eroomde> but then we were flying at mach 0.8
[12:45] <eroomde> not a polystyrene toy pootling along at 15mph
[12:46] <eroomde> we just didn't transmit during freefall and deployment
[12:46] <Laurenceb> i see
[12:46] <Laurenceb> im going to try a 0402 100nf cap on the side of the adc
[12:47] <Laurenceb> pretty mental soldering required, but it should bypass the traces where the inductive pickup seems to happen
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:47] <eroomde> is the problem really that bad!?
[12:47] <Laurenceb> ideally needs a metal case
[12:47] <Laurenceb> well i could get a 24pc sensor with better sensitivity
[12:48] <Laurenceb> but im only flying at ~10m/s so the pitot sees about 50pa tops
[12:48] <jgrahamc> Oh, and the best part. The tokenizer reports an error when the number is too long and returns an error, but the rest of the code just ignores the error and carries on.
[12:48] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:49] <Laurenceb> also i want to increase the output rate and that results in more noise
[12:49] <Laurenceb> im seeing 12pa at just 8hz sample rate
[12:49] <Laurenceb> - 12pa rms noise
[12:50] <fsphil> Darkside, don't suppose you could sneak a 434.075mhz receiver in there :)
[12:50] <Laurenceb> cc1020 :P
[12:52] <Laurenceb> well youd probably have issues in orbit with one of those
[12:52] <Laurenceb> maybe if there was a saw filter on the front
[12:53] <Darkside> fsphil: lol
[12:53] <fsphil> hmm.. license free band, the noise from orbit would be horrendous
[12:53] <Darkside> its the same sat as the funcube stuff is going on btw
[12:54] <jgrahamc> The other lesson of the cuddykid problem is that "you always fly the exact code you've tested"
[12:54] <eroomde> Darkside: oh?
[12:54] <eroomde> hold up
[12:55] <Darkside> well, Funcube-2 anyway
[12:55] <eroomde> so funcube is now not a discrete sat of its own?
[12:55] <cuddykid> jgrahamc: yep, learnt that lesson now!
[12:55] <Darkside> not sure what's happening with the first funcube
[12:55] <Darkside> eroomde: still not sure, their website is shit
[12:55] <Darkside> but they're putting a funcube payload in UKube-1
[12:55] <eroomde> Graham G3VZV on here is funcube pm
[12:55] <cuddykid> thing is, I thought that changing a "6" to a "10" wouldn't have broken everything!
[12:55] <eroomde> i was briefly involved with it at the beginning but had to drop out as my masters was too much of a master
[12:55] <Darkside> eroomde: not online though?
[12:55] <eroomde> nope
[12:56] <eroomde> but always listens out for habs
[12:56] <Darkside> all i know is there is a funcube payload in UKube-1
[12:56] <eroomde> cool
[12:56] <jgrahamc> Of course, but inside the code what happens is the number is too large and so the tokenizer returns an error which the rest of the code ignores. What happens next is that the parameter for the sleep is sent in as -1 which indicates sleep forever.
[12:56] <Darkside> apart from that, no idea, since their website hasn't been updated since march
[12:56] <fsphil> also received some telemetry with the fc dongle
[12:56] <Darkside> i need to get my dongle back from shenki :P
[12:56] <Darkside> so i can take it with me!
[12:59] <cuddykid> jgrahamc: yeah
[12:59] <cuddykid> right, next problem - ext temp sensor seemed to not want to read below -3C
[13:00] <Darkside> DS18S20?
[13:00] <Upu> was that the one you cooked ?
[13:00] <cuddykid> Darkside: yeah
[13:01] <cuddykid> don't think so Upu
[13:01] <cuddykid> running through my code now
[13:01] <cuddykid> to check whether there's not a maths erro
[13:01] <jgrahamc> pastebin it
[13:01] <Darkside> cuddykid: replicate the error by putting it in a freezer
[13:01] <cuddykid> yeah, going to freezer it in a bit
[13:01] <cuddykid> temp stuff - http://pastebin.com/6ny9Busq
[13:02] <cuddykid> in flight, temp seemed to bounce off -3C and read -2.x C etc
[13:03] <cuddykid> correction > currently -3.2C seems lowest I can see in raw data
[13:04] <eroomde> cuddykid: what time is your bbc radio slot?
[13:05] <eroomde> and what's the name of the station?
[13:05] <cuddykid> 5:20
[13:05] <eroomde> i'll see if i can stream it online
[13:05] <cuddykid> bbc hereford & worcester
[13:05] <eroomde> thanks
[13:05] <cuddykid> ooo, pressure on!
[13:05] <cuddykid> lol
[13:05] <eroomde> :)
[13:05] <eroomde> well actually i might have to help some friends move out of their house at five
[13:05] <cuddykid> if not, should be able to download clip after
[13:05] <eroomde> usual post-graduation bumpf
[13:05] <cuddykid> cool :)
[13:05] <eroomde> you have all that to look forward to
[13:05] <cuddykid> haha, yeah
[13:05] <eroomde> yeah see if you can download the clip
[13:06] <cuddykid> still not sure whether to reapply for engineering next year
[13:06] <eroomde> to where?
[13:06] <cuddykid> cam
[13:06] <eroomde> did you try this year?
[13:06] <cuddykid> applied for econ this year
[13:06] <eroomde> ah ok
[13:06] <eroomde> econ's boring
[13:06] <eroomde> if you want a city job at the end, do a science anyway
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5baNcgIA8o&feature=feedrec_grec_index
[13:06] <eroomde> and if you don't, econ will bore you :p
[13:06] <jgrahamc> cuddykid: is this an Arduino?
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> 'the pressure in the regulator is controlled by how many rocks are piled ontop of it'
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[13:11] <Laurenceb> current cost webserver works XD
[13:11] <Laurenceb> turns out the usart survived the mistreatment
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> What does it do?
[13:11] <Laurenceb> atm it says hello world
[13:12] <cuddykid> haha eroomde
[13:12] <cuddykid> love both - so it was tough decision
[13:12] <SamSilver> Oh Like W0OTM
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> I mean - how does the bridge work?
[13:12] <Laurenceb> but it could send monitoring data retreived over the serial port
[13:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Current-Cost-CCPMB-Bridge-Device/dp/B003N2MQZ4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&m=A1UZ5FQNG739UE&s=generic&qid=1309785006&sr=1-2
[13:12] <cuddykid> jgrahamc: yeah
[13:12] <Laurenceb> 3.3v usart+power and ethernet with an avr and wiznet thingy in the middle
[13:13] <cuddykid> eroomde: the issue is the big rise in fees
[13:13] <eroomde> cuddykid: presumably though if didn't pass the lottery on the cam interview tho?
[13:13] <jgrahamc> So there are a bunch of issues with conversion between float and int on Arduino. I would imagine that this line "emp_outcfl = ((((temp_out - 32)*5)/9)-2);" isn't doing what you think. I assume that temp_out is an int, and that whole calculation will have been done with ints and the result (integer) converted to float.
[13:13] <eroomde> cuddykid: yes, I sympathise _enormously_
[13:13] <cuddykid> eroomde: nope :( !
[13:13] <eroomde> that's really not cool
[13:13] <cuddykid> got notts offer atm
[13:13] <eroomde> cuddykid: wouldn't worry - it can seem very artibrary
[13:14] <eroomde> which college did you apply to?
[13:14] <cuddykid> Queen's
[13:14] <cuddykid> sorry * Queens' ;)
[13:14] <eroomde> ah nice - fergusnoble (cusf genius) was at queens
[13:14] <cuddykid> nice
[13:14] <eroomde> yes don't make that mistake on your application :)
[13:14] <cuddykid> v nice college
[13:14] <eroomde> it is
[13:14] <eroomde> good atmosphere
[13:14] <cuddykid> where did you go?
[13:14] <eroomde> churchill
[13:15] <eroomde> hence the launch site being there
[13:15] <cuddykid> ahh right!
[13:15] <cuddykid> very handy
[13:15] <eroomde> by 'the' alunch site i mean the one that most ukhas flights go from
[13:15] <cuddykid> yep
[13:16] <eroomde> well, if you do decide to reapply, i'll give you whatever advice I can
[13:16] <cuddykid> thanks eroomde :)
[13:16] <cuddykid> will see what grades come out like
[13:16] <eroomde> and at least with engineering you're very likely to have a good job at the end which will mean you won't notice the fee repayments as much as you otherwise might
[13:16] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: http://john.crouchley.com/blog/archives/722
[13:17] <Darkside> hmm
[13:17] <cuddykid> indeed
[13:17] <Darkside> are british banknotes paper?
[13:17] <cuddykid> think so Darkside
[13:17] <Darkside> bah
[13:17] <Upu> yes DanielRichman
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: neat
[13:18] <eroomde> what's the alternative?
[13:18] <Darkside> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_banknote
[13:18] <eroomde> acetate?
[13:18] <Darkside> we use polymer in australia
[13:18] <Darkside> fucking awesome notes
[13:18] <Darkside> damn near impossible to tear them
[13:18] <eroomde> ah i see
[13:18] <eroomde> that makes sense
[13:18] <eroomde> i hate getting mangled crap that purports to have once been a tenner as change
[13:19] <jgrahamc> Of course eroomde he could apply to a proper university :-)
[13:19] <eroomde> there is only one, i thought
[13:19] <jgrahamc> Precisely
[13:19] <Darkside> ugh
[13:19] <Upu> Teesside Polytechnic ?
[13:19] <Laurenceb> THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!
[13:19] <Darkside> its goign to take me a while to understand the value of notes
[13:19] <eroomde> i fear we have reached a stalemate
[13:20] <Darkside> ok, heres a question
[13:20] <Darkside> what is the average price for a 600ml bottle of coke
[13:20] <eroomde> actually i'm outnumbered
[13:20] <eroomde> jgrahamc: you and laurenceb vs me
[13:20] <Laurenceb> Darkside: is that a cambridge entrance exam question?
[13:20] <Darkside> Laurenceb: no
[13:20] <Darkside> its me trying to transition to thinking in pounds
[13:20] <eroomde> ouch
[13:20] <Laurenceb> they are known to ask some odd stuff XD
[13:21] <jgrahamc> Actually, I wanted to go to Cambridge because the engineering department is a lot less theoretical than Oxford, but it was so close to my parents' house in Bury St. Edmunds.
[13:21] <Darkside> i'm goign to be thinking in GBP for 3 months
[13:21] <Laurenceb> Oxford eng sucks
[13:21] <Laurenceb> you dont want to go there
[13:21] <Darkside> so, does anyone know what the price of a bottle of coke is?
[13:21] <Laurenceb> <- physics grad
[13:21] <eroomde> Darkside: about £1 from tesco
[13:21] <Darkside> what about a 'standard' serving of fish n chips?
[13:21] <eroomde> 59p for a can
[13:21] <Laurenceb> £1.20
[13:22] <eroomde> Darkside: about £4 from my local
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[13:22] <eroomde> medium cod, medium chips
[13:22] <Laurenceb> ripoff
[13:22] <eroomde> it's the south
[13:22] <Laurenceb> oh fish as well maybe yes
[13:22] <cuddykid> sounds about right - £4ish here too
[13:22] <Darkside> hmm
[13:22] <Darkside> AUD$6
[13:22] <Darkside> not bad
[13:22] <Darkside> seems food prices over there aren't so bad
[13:23] <eroomde> i think it's that they're quite bad in australia atm
[13:23] <shenki> Darkside: where will you be living?
[13:23] <eroomde> i had a lot of whining from expats living there
[13:23] <Darkside> shenki: uni accomodation, in bath
[13:23] <eroomde> it's gone up quite a lot in the last few years, right?
[13:23] <Laurenceb> aus is pricey auiui
[13:23] <Laurenceb> well high wages for certain
[13:23] <Laurenceb> that drives up pries
[13:23] <eroomde> Darkside: bath has a really nice campus
[13:23] <eroomde> amazing facilities
[13:23] <shenki> eroomde: so they say
[13:23] <shenki> AUD is smashing it
[13:23] <Darkside> so i've been hearing
[13:23] <shenki> http://au.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AUDGBP=X#symbol=AUDGBP=X;range=5y
[13:24] <eroomde> Darkside: I v nearly went
[13:24] <eroomde> and bath itself is great
[13:24] <Darkside> eroomde: heh
[13:24] <Darkside> mmm
[13:24] <Darkside> not far away from the bristol hackerspace!
[13:24] <Darkside> i'll have to go along :-)
[13:24] <eroomde> yup!
[13:24] <eroomde> bristol is nice too, in the right bits
[13:24] <eroomde> but bristol definitely has some wrong bits
[13:25] <Laurenceb> theres a big river for a start
[13:25] <Laurenceb> you dont want to wander across there unless you're jesus
[13:25] <Darkside> lol
[13:26] <eroomde> Darkside: Little Britain is rather crude and viscious as comedy goes, but one of its most successful scharacters is Vicky Pollard, who is from bristol
[13:26] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mpMEnxcVkA
[13:26] <Darkside> eroomde: oh god
[13:26] <Darkside> HER
[13:26] <eroomde> a kind of exaggeration (tho not by much to be fair) of a stereotype
[13:26] <Darkside> hahahahahahah
[13:26] <Darkside> serious
[13:27] <Darkside> no but yeah but
[13:28] <shenki> Darkside talks almost as fast as she does
[13:28] <Darkside> :<
[13:28] <shenki> :D
[13:28] <eroomde> and as articulately?
[13:29] <shenki> eroomde: he's a bit better than her, luckly
[13:29] <shenki> much higher SNR
[13:29] <Darkside> hahaha
[13:30] <eroomde> open source project names seem to be very pun-based at the moment
[13:30] <Darkside> oh?
[13:31] <eroomde> like coffeescript, and various utilities which help with it like coffeecup i've just seen
[13:31] <Darkside> lol
[13:31] <eroomde> as a play on javascript
[13:31] <eroomde> i think i will make something that helps you with using json
[13:31] <eroomde> i'll call it argonaut
[13:31] <Laurenceb> doh - http://www.nuelectronics.com/estore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4
[13:31] <Darkside> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhahahaahahah
[13:31] <Laurenceb> way cheaper :(
[13:32] <Darkside> eroomde: will it crash?
[13:32] Action: SpeedEvil hits eroomde with a golden fleece
[13:33] <Darkside> man, i hope the bath uni has a good p2p network...
[13:33] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: you could set up some kind of online ponzi scheme based on json
[13:33] <eroomde> you could call it golden fleece
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[13:45] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: predictions look good for next Sunday btw - but quite far away to be accurate
[13:46] <Upu> another launch ?
[13:46] <cuddykid> Upu: I don't have another balloon :(
[13:46] <cuddykid> however, I've got a fair bit of gas left I think
[13:47] <cuddykid> emailed RocketBoy to see what balloon status is
[13:50] <Upu> which one did you order ?
[13:50] <cuddykid> haven't ordered yet - but will be hwoyee 1000G probably
[13:53] <WillDuckworth> will split you a totex 1000 if you want?
[13:55] <griffonbot> Received email: daveake "[UKHAS] Re: Registering on the tracker"
[14:00] <Upu> I have a spare 1600g Hwyoee but you'll have to a) pay me for it b) have alot of gas :)
[14:01] <fsphil> or c) seriously underfill it and have it land in norway ;)
[14:02] <Upu> lol
[14:03] <fsphil> I've got a 1000g totex (iirc) too, won't be flying it for a few months
[14:05] <fsphil> ah wait, it's a kaymont balloon
[14:14] <Upu> http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=23064 love that "err isn't that meant to be above us ?"
[14:15] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: possibly, need to try and fix a few bits of payload 1st - and just been informed that we're busy next sunday - hopefully sat will be good though
[14:15] <cuddykid> you could always launch under my clearance if you want?
[14:16] <cuddykid> Upu, yeah haven't got that much gas lol!
[14:17] <WillDuckworth> i'll have a think - still need to polish the code and get my gumstix playing nicely ;)
[14:17] <WillDuckworth> cheers
[14:20] <chris_99> i'm just wondering what kind of frequency is typical in the UK for balloons
[14:20] <chris_99> as i'm thinking of purchasing a scanner
[14:20] <Darkside> 434.050MHz USB
[14:21] <Darkside> make sure the scanner does sideband on that frequency
[14:21] <Darkside> not all will
[14:21] <chris_99> i'm rather new to radio, whats USB mean
[14:21] <Darkside> upper side-band
[14:21] <chris_99> this is the scanner i was looking at http://www.javiation.co.uk/com225.html it doesn't mention USB on there
[14:22] <Darkside> yep that won't work
[14:22] <chris_99> darn
[14:23] <Darkside> something like the Icom IC-R20, or an IC-R10 if you can find one on ebay would be good
[14:23] <eroomde> the yaesu ft 790R is a great rig for listening to balloons too
[14:23] <Darkside> ooooooold tho
[14:23] <eroomde> and the yaesu ft 817 is I think the most popular rig used by ukhas members
[14:24] <SamSilver> chris_99: do you have a licence?
[14:24] <Darkside> and portable is good :-)
[14:24] <eroomde> Darkside: yup, but it's very good
[14:24] <chris_99> no, i don't SamSilver
[14:24] <chris_99> i'm only looking at scanners
[14:24] <chris_99> and isn't that freq. licence exempt
[14:24] <eroomde> you don't need any permissions to receive
[14:24] <eroomde> it's only transmission where licensing becomes an issue
[14:25] <eroomde> so you can buy any amateur radio rig that you like
[14:25] <Darkside> just don't press the PTT :-)
[14:25] <chris_99> heh
[14:25] <cuddykid> WillDuckworth: no problem!
[14:25] <griffonbot> Received email: dev "[UKHAS] Re: Equipment"
[14:26] <Darkside> chris_99: for a handheld scanner, the Icom IC-R10 is nice
[14:26] <griffonbot> Received email: dev "[UKHAS] Re: Equipment"
[14:26] <Darkside> you might be able to pick one up on ebay for cheap
[14:26] <fsphil> what's that scanner lunar_lander has? it wasn't too expensive iirc
[14:27] <mixio> I persuaded radiometrix to pay with debit card. The will absord any extra charges from their banks for me !!!!
[14:27] <chris_99> thanks i'll check that one out Darkside
[14:27] <mixio> ah, how good iam at persuading whole companies !!!!
[14:27] <Darkside> chris_99: they don't make them anymore though, you'd have to find one 2nd hand
[14:28] <chris_99> yeah i was looking 2nd hand, can't afford the new ones
[14:28] <Darkside> but its a nice scanner, the IC-R20 is the 'new' version, which is also nice
[14:28] <mixio> but im not able to persuade a girl from another country to come with my holidays !!!!!!
[14:28] <Darkside> i prefer the R10 as it's awesome for direction finding
[14:28] <fsphil> Yupiteru MVT-7100
[14:28] <Darkside> fsphil: yesssss
[14:28] <mixio> wtf... sorry for interrupting :(
[14:28] <Darkside> i have one of those too
[14:28] <Darkside> R10 is better tho :-)
[14:29] <Darkside> and will probably cost about teh same 2nd hand
[14:29] <chris_99> someone just mentioned that on #hamradio actually
[14:29] <Darkside> chris_99: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Icom-IC-R10-Communications-Receiver-/180688866634?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2a11e54d4a
[14:29] <fsphil> certainly will do the frequency
[14:29] <fsphil> but the Icom is likely the better bet
[14:29] <Darkside> <3 my IC-R10
[14:30] <Darkside> we use them for all of our DFing receivers :-)
[14:30] <eroomde> random asside: take a mo to vicariously enjoy what a fun day at work this must have been for Niels-Henning Ørsted when oscar peterson is playing the piano solo. the look on his face at 00:30 is great. you job is to make music with a giant like oscar peterson. not sure what the equivalent this is in engineering. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxB-LbcZITU&feature=related
[14:30] <Darkside> the adjustable gain knob on the R10 is BRILLIANT for direction finding!
[14:30] <chris_99> is the R20 very similar to the R10?
[14:30] <Darkside> nope
[14:31] <Darkside> its all fancy and modern :P
[14:31] <Darkside> and more expensive
[14:31] <chris_99> aha
[14:31] <Darkside> would be fine for balloon listening i'm sure
[14:31] <Darkside> but you won;t get one 2nd hand as cheap as the R10
[14:31] <Darkside> chris_99: that link i sent you
[14:32] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: #HABE1 Flickr Stream - http://t.co/4YVqowA #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/87891428776222720]
[14:32] <chris_99> yeah just checked that out, looks good, seems like it does a nice freq. range too
[14:32] <Darkside> 150 pounds would be about right for one 2nd hand
[14:33] <Darkside> yeah
[14:33] <Darkside> 500KHz to 1.3GHz
[14:33] <Darkside> and does sideband over the entire range :P
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[14:33] <fsphil> mmm 23cm band
[14:33] <Upu> cuddykid happy to get it back ? :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/acudworth/5896659201/in/set-72157626883514628/lightbox/
[14:34] <Darkside> its really sad they stopped making them
[14:34] <cuddykid> very! haha
[14:34] <Darkside> the R20 is shithouse for DFing
[14:34] <chris_99> how come?
[14:34] <jgrahamc> Nice picture
[14:34] <Darkside> only has 9 attenuation steps, and they are too coarse
[14:34] <Upu> linked on the front page of ukhas
[14:34] <cuddykid> thanks Upu
[14:34] <Darkside> r10 is a continuous attenuation knob, and can attenuate up to 120 dB (i think)
[14:35] <Darkside> the example was you can use a yagi to DF a 50W transmitter from 5m away
[14:35] <cuddykid> will add try and add the media article ( http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/9119934.Teen_s_balloon_feat_goes_sky_high___video/ ) later
[14:35] <Darkside> chris_99: of course you won't be DFing, the R10 is still a nice scanner anyway :-)
[14:36] <chris_99> yup, i wanted to play with things like ACARS too
[14:36] <chris_99> and possibly look at building my own balloon setup at somepoint
[14:36] <Darkside> well that'll do all that
[14:36] <chris_99> :)
[14:36] <Darkside> and you can get a discriminator tap out of the r10 if you really want it
[14:36] <chris_99> aha, that means unfiltered output right?
[14:36] <Darkside> bit painful to do, but its doable - i've done it to mine
[14:37] <Darkside> yeah, only for FM though
[14:37] <Darkside> its the raw output from the FM discriminator
[14:38] <Darkside> anyway, i need to sleep...
[14:38] <chris_99> thanks for the advice
[14:38] <Upu> done cuddykid
[14:45] <cuddykid> cheers Upu!
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[16:36] <Laurenceb> wtf... seeedstudio lipo cell seems to have battery discharge protect kick in at 3.5V :(
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[16:42] <fsphil> this lipo setup had cut-off by the time I got home. it ran for about 16 hours running an avr and ntx2
[16:42] <fsphil> going to do the same test tomorrow with a small solar cell in the window connected to the lipo charger thingy
[16:44] <chris_99> has anyone tried seeestudio's pcb printing btw, seem pretty reasonably priced
[16:46] <Randomskk> it's great
[16:47] <chris_99> :) i'll have to give them a shot
[16:47] Action: hibby twiddles thumbs... Not long until the move!
[16:47] <Laurenceb> its ok
[16:47] <Laurenceb> http://jnaudin.free.fr/kapagen/index.htm <-lulwut
[16:48] <Laurenceb> some of the stuff there is a little less mental - http://jnaudin.free.fr/spgen/barkhausen.htm
[17:06] <SamSilver> bbl
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[17:08] <rebel4life2> chris_99, have a look at pcbcart
[17:09] <rebel4life2> around 120-140€ for 10x 160x100mm pcb
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[17:24] <chris_99> thanks i'll check it out
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[17:27] <chris_99> seeedstudio seem a lot cheaper then, as they do 15cmx10cm for $70
[17:28] <rebel4life2> 10 pieces?
[17:28] <chris_99> yup
[17:28] <rebel4life2> link?
[17:28] <rebel4life2> top and bottom layer?
[17:28] <rebel4life2> e check?
[17:28] <Randomskk> seeed are really, really cheap and really, really good
[17:28] <chris_99> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185
[17:28] <chris_99> yeah dual layer
[17:28] <Randomskk> 6/6 mil spec, double sided copper and soldermask and silk, 10 pcbs, loads of sizes, whatever board thickness
[17:29] <Randomskk> also internal and edge routing
[17:29] <rebel4life2> how much is shipping?
[17:29] <chris_99> i think it was free last time i used?
[17:29] <Randomskk> depends on how fast you want it, $3 to $20 ish
[17:29] <chris_99> ah
[17:29] <rebel4life2> i hate 3g^^
[17:30] <rebel4life2> not very fast
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[17:37] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: Just been on BBC H&W talking about #HABE1 - was an experience! #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/87937980953669632]
[17:38] <cuddykid> hi all, back
[17:38] <mixio> hi
[17:39] <Upu> wb TV star :)
[17:39] <mixio> BBC
[17:39] <mixio> love
[17:39] <mixio> haha
[17:39] <Upu> got it on YuTube yet ?
[17:39] <mixio> yes we want utube
[17:39] <cuddykid> haha, not yet, should be online later i think
[17:39] <cuddykid> radio not tv
[17:39] <mixio> yeah
[17:39] <cuddykid> will have recording soon :)
[17:40] <rebel4life2> anyone here at ccc camp 2011 in finowfurt?
[17:40] <cuddykid> was a little awkward as the guy thought I had broken record and was now 2nd (however, he corrected himself at the end saying I was 3rd)!
[17:40] <Upu> snooze you loose :)
[17:40] <cuddykid> didn't know whether to but in and correct him, but left it in the end
[17:40] <cuddykid> haha
[17:41] <Upu> just amend the wiki for a week no one will mind
[17:41] <Upu> :)
[17:41] <Randomskk> these hwoyee balloons seem to be pretty record-setting
[17:41] <Upu> yeah I have a 1600g here ready to go
[17:42] <Upu> I think I'll go for a higher accent rate as I want it back :)
[17:42] <cuddykid> yeah, the hwoyees are awesome
[17:43] <cuddykid> not online yet - looks like it will be online after 19:00 BST
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[17:52] Nick change: RocketBoy_ -> RocketBoy
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[18:17] Nick change: grummund_ -> grummund
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[18:26] Nick change: danielsaul_alt -> danielsaul
[18:31] <cuddykid> still not available
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[18:41] <mattltm> ping fsphil
[18:41] <fsphil> pong mattltm
[18:41] <mattltm> xchat or xchat gnome?
[18:41] <fsphil> I use xchat
[18:41] <hibby> http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6500868/sci-fi-ikea-manuals :D
[18:42] <mattltm> that’s what I'm thinking
[18:42] <hibby> irssi anyone else?
[18:43] <fsphil> not sure what the point of xchat-gnome is
[18:43] <fsphil> haha, love the 0x jar jar
[18:44] <mattltm> just seems like a striped down version.
[18:45] <hibby> fsphil: im a fan of the broken chameleon circuit and wibbly-wobbly timey wimey thing on the tjardiis ;)
[18:46] <fsphil> also the fez
[18:46] <hibby> and bow tie
[18:46] <hibby> because bow ties are cool.
[18:51] <cuddykid> here's the recording! - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00hkprz
[18:51] <cuddykid> about 1:15 in
[18:51] <cuddykid> that's 1 hr 15mins in
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[18:54] <Randomskk> hibby: of course irssi :P
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[18:54] <Randomskk> all the cool kids are using it
[18:55] <hibby> client of the future
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[19:01] <mattltm> why cant I get xchat to play ogg files??
[19:02] <hibby> because it's an IRC client?
[19:02] <mattltm> but it should play ogg.
[19:05] <fsphil> nice job cuddykid
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[19:05] <fsphil> I'd have mumbled a lot more
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[19:25] <eroomde> cuddykid: excellent
[19:25] <eroomde> v clear and articulate
[19:26] <kristianpaul> moin
[19:26] <kristianpaul> any pics from XABEN travel?
[19:29] <Upu> no camera on it
[19:29] <kristianpaul> ahh... yeah i forgot :S
[19:30] <kristianpaul> but telemtry was even better i think :)
[19:32] <Upu> indeed :)
[19:32] <Upu> there is a launch video
[19:32] <Upu> front page ukhas
[19:33] <kristianpaul> yeah, i saw it yay
[19:36] <kristianpaul> you think a TV tunner can be good to receive the 430MHz - 440MHz radio signal?
[19:37] <kristianpaul> i got this one http://www.mtmscientific.com/tuner.html
[19:37] <kristianpaul> actually this link is the right one http://www.mtmscientific.com/receiver.html
[19:38] <Upu> I have no idea
[19:38] <Upu> probably isn't sensitive enough for our needs
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[19:39] <kristianpaul> yeah, i was told this kind of TV is not very wellcome in ham world, but, i need a really cheap alternaty
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:39] <kristianpaul> i dont ha e funds to buy a 100eur radio
[19:39] <Upu> you wanting to listen in ?
[19:39] <kristianpaul> s/ha/have
[19:39] <Upu> globaltuners ?
[19:40] <kristianpaul> Upu: i want listen weather satellites at first
[19:40] <Upu> www.globaltuners.com
[19:40] <kristianpaul> but i just tought i can be used later for radio telemetry .
[19:40] <kristianpaul> o
[19:40] <kristianpaul> k
[19:41] <cuddykid> thanks fsphil & eroomde!
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> hi cuddykid fsphil eroomde
[19:43] <cuddykid> hi Lunar_Lander :)
[19:43] <kristianpaul> Upu: ah, i tought globaltuners was a radio shop ;)
[19:43] <Upu> no :)
[19:44] <Upu> its not brilliant but...
[19:44] <kristianpaul> btw where i can find the hardware specs fo the XABEN ?
[19:44] <kristianpaul> i mean a single specs, page not reading here and there
[19:45] <kristianpaul> if there is one of course
[19:46] <fsphil> g'day Lunar_Lander
[19:46] <Upu> I don't have a link to hand someone may have
[19:48] <kristianpaul> may be RocketBoy knows :)
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[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> oh hi mattltm NigeyS RocketBoy mixio
[19:49] <Upu> kristianpaul he should do its his payload :)
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[20:01] <cuddykid> anyone know how to download a section of iplayer radio broadcast on mac?
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: ping
[20:02] <fsphil> there's programs for downloading the entire program
[20:02] <cuddykid> trying to get soundflower working to do some audio jigery pokery but not working properly
[20:02] <fsphil> I guess you could use audacity to cut it out
[20:02] <cuddykid> yeah, will try that route
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[20:05] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: did you see any sort of 'burn in' on your 26pc sensor?
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> my noise seems to be decreasing... very odd
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> I've seen sensors say strain induced by soldering causes offsets.
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> But noise?
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[20:35] <Laurenceb_> ok got it
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> its power supply ripple
[20:36] <hibby> more smoothing!
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[20:39] <Laurenceb_> its dependant on whats running
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> if i trun off the sensors its only 60% over the adc specs
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> otherwise an order of mag more
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Great!
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> The other sensors that is?
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[20:39] <Laurenceb_> no the 26pc
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> sorry - the mems sensors
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[20:41] <SpeedEvil> What's that then you're down to a couple of Pa?
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> 1.7Pa rms noise
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Great!
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> well 1.2 to ~1.9Pa seems to be flicker noise when the sensor temperature is changing
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> - noise changes from 1.2pa rms to 1.9pa rms max
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> Would the sensor also be suitable for differential balloon sensing?
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> at 16hz sample rate
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> its changing by ~10pa over about 10c change in the board temperature as it warms up
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> needs compensating with a cal graph
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> i can hardly turn the sensors off tho :-/
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes - but at least this means there are no fundamental screwups
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Tried to see if there ia a particularly bad sensor?
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> if this is ?
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> IF there is
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> I mean - which sensors are putting noise out
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> oh got you
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> the itg gyro seems to be chucking noise out - it still is to a certain extent - probably explains the remaining excess noise
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> theres a high voltage charge pump and pll in there - lots of noise around 250khz
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> ive added a 0402 decoupling cap directly onto the adc - that seems to be mopping up about 3pa rms noise
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> solderin 0402 onto the side of dfn10 was a pita
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> kept gluing onto my tweezers from the flux
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> the high psrr in the datasheet is confusing me still :/
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> hmm maybe i need to hack some chokes on there
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[21:08] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if laminating on a foil shield to the top would help
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> looks like mostly power supply ripple
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> ~no change if i short the inputs
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> changing the pga scales the noise, so its not at the adc
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> Can you lift vcc for the a/d and supply seperately?
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[21:16] <Laurenceb_> no
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be power supply into the pga or the low pass switched cap filter
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[21:18] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[21:20] <Laurenceb_> the decoupling caps on the sensor make a small difference, and the 0402 right next to the adc makes ~30% improvement
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[21:37] <Laurenceb_> the itg is quite nasty - 2mv spikes at ~1mhz or so
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> my scope was missing them a bit on 20mhz bandwidth
[21:38] <griffonbot> Received email: Anthony Stirk "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Registering on the tracker"
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[21:54] <Upu> http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01072011_coolest_pix_week_26/week26_008.jpg
[21:54] <NigeyS> evening jcoxon
[21:54] <Upu> thats a great picture
[21:58] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Registering on the tracker"
[21:59] Action: kristianpaul got version 3.1 of akos/borre code :D
[22:00] <kristianpaul> he, i'm amazed i tought rtklib was written just in C++ but seems just to be the GUI, the rest of the code is ANSI C 89
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> hey jcoxon Upu
[22:02] <Upu> o7
[22:02] <kristianpaul> indeed Upu
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> cool pic Upu
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[22:06] <Upu> thet cloud project looks sorted
[22:06] <Upu> that
[22:07] <Upu> Anyway I'm off night all
[22:09] <kristianpaul> n8
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[22:23] <kristianpaul> http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/newsroom/NewsArchive/New37_June2011_SOCIS.htm
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[22:51] <RocketBoy> where there any issues with the XABEN signal at all yesterday - did it drop out at any point? - just wanted check what people thought
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy did you recover it?
[22:54] <RocketBoy> yes - it was up a tree - but reasonably easy recovery - apart form the farmhand taking a pot shot at the line with his shotgun
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> someone asked about payload details earlier on
[22:54] <RocketBoy> bit scary
[22:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:55] <NigeyS> shotgun? lol dam..!
[22:55] <RocketBoy> at one point I thought I read someone say that the signal went?
[22:56] <RocketBoy> there was a lot going on and I could only stop off occasionally to read
[22:56] <NigeyS> hmm was ok here, it did drift a little with the rise and fall in temp while floating, but generally it was good
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> do you actually have to retune much?
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[22:57] <NigeyS> generally no
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[22:57] <RocketBoy> NigeyS: thanks - yeah i forgot to gum up the antenna lead hole before launch - that makes a big difference in stability
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> so what did your payload do?
[22:58] <NigeyS> ahhh
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> what sensors had it?
[22:58] <RocketBoy> gps - antenna
[22:59] <kristianpaul> wich gps module btw?
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[22:59] <RocketBoy> lassen IQ
[22:59] <kristianpaul> also wich radio tranceiver? on board computer?
[22:59] <kristianpaul> how do you detect shute opening?
[23:00] <RocketBoy> NTX2 transmitter PIC micro
[23:00] <hibby> we used an accelerometer in one of our launches
[23:01] <kristianpaul> included temperature sensor and other atmospheric variables measurement?
[23:02] <hibby> aye, one had temp/pressure
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:03] <kristianpaul> also, wher you bought the balloon? the company who does ask you what for?
[23:03] <hibby> couldn't tell you that much. I reckon it was random solutions, as that's what I recommended to them
[23:04] <kristianpaul> ok
[23:04] <RocketBoy> :-)
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:05] <kristianpaul> well i guess if payload was ~350g you cant hurt tooo much with it
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
[23:06] <kristianpaul> ah, almost forgot, atenna design
[23:06] <hibby> we had a few. dipole, monopole and jpole
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[23:06] <kristianpaul> pics? :)
[23:07] <hibby> jpole worked well, probably because the group of students that launched it were the best organised of our lot
[23:07] <kristianpaul> at leat diagrams about placing of the atennas
[23:07] <hibby> didn't get that technical. All were vertical, pointing downwards
[23:08] <kristianpaul> there is somwhere way to get the telemtry of the whole travel?
[23:08] <kristianpaul> or can you tell me min temperature/pressure registered?
[23:08] <hibby> I'll see if the sunset group's website is still up
[23:08] <hibby> they had a ton of stuff
[23:08] <kristianpaul> k
[23:09] <hibby> aww
[23:09] <hibby> dude, you're going to cry with joy
[23:09] <kristianpaul> hum?
[23:09] <hibby> they've actually put pretty full design notes and launch analysis online
[23:09] <kristianpaul> :D
[23:09] <hibby> http://www.sunset-skypod.co.uk/
[23:09] <kristianpaul> link, link !
[23:11] <hibby> some equations and all, looks like they took it out their report
[23:12] <hibby> also, yep, it was random engineering they sourced the totex balloon from
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[23:38] <kristianpaul> forgive my radio-related topic ignorance but this http://www.hoperf.com/rf_fsk/cob/RFM12B.htm coukd be used for telemetry may be with apropiate transmit power?
[23:42] <hibby> quite low power, I think
[23:42] <hibby> 3dBm == 2mW
[23:43] <hibby> 5dBm == 3.2mW
[23:45] <kristianpaul> yes, but people already managed to reach up to 2km with this modules
[23:45] <kristianpaul> also i have 20 of then :)
[23:45] <hibby> we're a different case entirely, lucky for you
[23:45] <kristianpaul> :-|
[23:45] <hibby> the ones we use normall,y the ntx2 throw out 10mW
[23:45] <hibby> and we've had upto 500km on them
[23:46] <hibby> it's doable, in other words
[23:46] <hibby> line of sight, point to point comms makes the low power viable.
[23:48] <griffonbot> @steamfire: Dual water cutdowns timelapse video from July 3 online! http://t.co/Do3zNGh #arhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/88031396261675008]
[23:48] <kristianpaul> 500km is a lot i must admit, but you mean this distance when the ntx2 is a balloon payload right?
[23:48] <hibby> mmhmm
[23:49] <hibby> I reckon I can hear further than that, but not had a chance to test it yet.
[23:49] <hibby> got some pretty sensitive kit at the office.
[23:49] <kristianpaul> :-)
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[23:51] <hibby> will have to wait till september to see what it can do.
[23:53] Action: kristianpaul just ordered a balloon
[23:53] <hibby> nice
[23:54] <kristianpaul> yeah, is the only stuff i cant source locally
[23:54] <hibby> where you baseD?
[23:55] <kristianpaul> buga, colombia
[23:55] <hibby> cool
[23:55] <hibby> our radio laws/unlicensed areas of the spectrum may not apply to you, however.
[23:56] <kristianpaul> sure i know that
[23:56] <kristianpaul> but i have a remote place to do tests and dont disturb no body for now
[23:56] <kristianpaul> farm place :)
[23:57] <kristianpaul> just dont have car to carry helium, but i'l see what to do...
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[00:00] --- Tue Jul 5 2011