highaltitude.log.20110627

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[06:58] <cuddykid> CAA permission arrived!
[06:59] <jcoxon> excellent
[06:59] <jcoxon> so when is launch?
[07:00] <cuddykid> between 1st & 12th july
[07:00] <cuddykid> however, conditions are quire restrictive
[07:00] <cuddykid> 20miles max to W/SW
[07:01] <cuddykid> right, must go, got a physics exam now!
[07:01] <cuddykid> bbl
[07:01] <jcoxon> good luck
[07:02] <cuddykid> thanks
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[09:05] Action: SpeedEvil is rudely awakened by a grid-tie-inverter
[09:11] <Elwell> <buzzzz>
[09:12] <SpeedEvil> The DHL guy actually.
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[09:30] <Elwell> SpeedEvil: how many panels / m2 / watts?
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> 0/0/0
[09:31] <SpeedEvil> At the moment
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> I'm waiting on 600W of cells.
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> Which I'll then assemble.
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[09:42] <Elwell> ah OK. what's the capacity of the inverter? (would like to investigate solar PV, but will probably go for water 1st and avoid running the gas boiler all summer)
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> 350W
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> I have solar thermal - ~1.5kw from ebay
[09:48] <SpeedEvil> Getting some bare solar cells, which I'm going to hack up into ~600W of panels - aiming for around 50p/watt
[09:49] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Apex II's third launch is fast approaching. Currently scheduled for July 9th. #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/85283560591863808]
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[09:57] <mixio> SpeedEvil
[09:57] <mixio> it says 5 degrees of freedom
[09:57] <mixio> or 3 degrees
[09:57] <mixio> Can you explain that to me
[09:57] <mixio> ?
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> How many axes something can move in
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> So a simple linear slide can move in one dimension.
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> a x/y/z platform in three - and one that can tilt in two axes as well in five
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[10:48] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "[UKHAS] Experiments with expanding foam"
[10:54] <Upu> haha "One test I did was to see how strong the cured foam is by hitting it with a hammer"
[10:54] <Upu> go JGC
[10:55] <jgrahamc> That video is going to go viral :-)
[10:56] <Darkside> what happened?
[10:56] <Darkside> not on that mailing list
[10:56] <jgrahamc> http://blog.jgc.org/2011/06/experiments-with-polyurethane-foam-for.html
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[11:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Re: Other materials to make a balloon out of?"
[11:21] <mixio> ping SpeedEvil
[11:22] <cuddykid> arduino uno has been desptached courtesy of robosavvy! A big thanks to them
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[11:27] <Elwell> right folks, blogspam I'm afraid, but can any of you stick a comment on http://blog.elwell.org.uk/2011/06/electronic-components.html with anything I've missed?
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[11:27] <cuddykid> erghhh, predictions for weekend aren't good :(
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[11:28] <Elwell> feels really still here today, wonder what predictor would say
[11:31] <Elwell> heh yep - http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a8fb1e0458e6d47b380f0ee1fb8a2fa2ef4ad56a
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[11:47] Nick change: MoALTz__ -> MoALTz
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[12:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[12:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi RocketBoy mattltm
[12:03] Nick change: grummund_ -> grummund
[12:03] <Lunar_Lander> "Update (June 26, 2011, 10:15 pm): The Payload has been recovered! According to first reports, the payload is relatively unharmed. It is now being prepared for transport and will be shipped to the balloon team immediately. Our thanks goes to the italian ham radio operators whithout whom a recovery would have been impossible."
[12:04] <Darkside> nice
[12:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:05] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/ballonprojekt/20110625/Ballonstart_HamRadio_20110625-kurz.mp3
[12:05] <jgrahamc> Which payload is that?
[12:05] <Lunar_Lander> those are the voice transmissions (german only)
[12:05] <Lunar_Lander> I suppose the whole train of three boxes
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[12:08] <cuddykid> if these storms develop as they're meant to, might have an fsphil moment and connect voltmeter to long metal pole lol
[12:09] <fsphil> just do it :)
[12:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[12:09] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[12:09] <Lunar_Lander> "Update (June 26, 2011, 10:15 pm): The Payload has been recovered! According to first reports, the payload is relatively unharmed. It is now being prepared for transport and will be shipped to the balloon team immediately. Our thanks goes to the italian ham radio operators whithout whom a recovery would have been impossible."
[12:10] <fsphil> hiya Lunar_Lander et all
[12:10] <Upu> feels still here today but,.... http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=ccc48a082d488eefe9f68b3094299b223c5293fa
[12:10] <Upu> I'm not launching tommorrow :)
[12:11] <fsphil> there's a small thunderstorm in France at the moment, heading north east from the looks of it
[12:11] <fsphil> wow, nice one Upu
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[12:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi mixio
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[12:18] <cuddykid> going to call boc and beg for financial help with helium!
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[12:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea cuddykid
[12:24] <fsphil> ooh good luck
[12:31] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil cuddykid ttyl
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[12:41] <fsphil> jgrahamc, love the moulded capsule
[12:45] <jgrahamc> Thanks fsphil. Still experimenting.
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[12:47] <mixio> how is that?
[12:47] <fsphil> it's much better than the cutting out and getting polystyrene everywhere method I've been using
[12:48] <fsphil> is that just regular gap filler stuff?
[12:48] <fsphil> ah it is too, just found the link
[12:51] <Darkside> how much denser is the foam?
[12:51] <fsphil> mixio, he left a few minutes before you arrived
[12:51] <Darkside> i.e. how doe sit compare to polystyrene per cubic cm
[12:53] <jgrahamc> I haven't yet tested the insulating properties of the expanded foam and will post about then when it's done.
[12:53] <mixio> ok fsphil
[12:53] <Darkside> jgrahamc: also melting point :P
[12:53] <Darkside> i.e. will a payload getting to 45 degrees on ground causr problems
[12:54] <fsphil> hehe
[12:54] <jgrahamc> Good question. I'm guessing no since this stuff is used in household insulation and that would seem like a low melting point.
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[12:56] <jgrahamc> However, it's worth noting that this stuff does degrade in sunlight and hence must be painted.
[12:56] <fsphil> does painting it add much weight? I imagine it's quite spongy, and can absorb a fair bit of the stuff
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[12:57] <fsphil> aah but then again, it's suppose to be waterproof
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[12:58] <jgrahamc> I painted it with acrylic paint and I didn't see much problem with the paint being absorbed. Looked pretty easy to paint.
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[12:59] <Lunar_Lander> back
[12:59] <puppy> Lunar_Lander: good day
[12:59] <Lunar_Lander> hi puppy
[12:59] <puppy> asl?
[13:00] <mixio> hey Lunar_Lander
[13:00] <mixio> fsphil
[13:00] <mixio> fsphil: PCB Thickness = 1.6mm. What if i choose 2mm? What is its role
[13:00] <Lunar_Lander> hi mixio
[13:00] <mixio> ?
[13:00] <Lunar_Lander> asl? since when is this a flirt chat?
[13:00] <Lunar_Lander> I'm from germany
[13:01] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: tomorrow i will order the TX1. 28E with shipping.
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander> the NTX2 has a similar price
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander> do you order from Farnell?
[13:01] <mixio> no, radiometrix
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[13:01] <Lunar_Lander> mattltm was so kind to order one for me
[13:01] <mixio> the pcbs cost 25$+4$ shipping
[13:02] <Upu> yeah don't get it from Farnell they are properly expensive
[13:02] <mixio> 29$
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:02] <mixio> if we choose blue silkscreen it goes 39$
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah you told me
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[13:02] <mixio> what do u prefer?
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> well the colour plays no role for me
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> blue is cool
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[13:02] <mixio> haha
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> would they only have green and blue?
[13:03] <mixio> white
[13:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[13:03] <Lunar_Lander> no yellow?
[13:03] <Lunar_Lander> red would be like sparkfun, that won't be good
[13:03] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> wb m1x10
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> did you received my last lines?
[13:04] <m1x10> white, red, yellow :P
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> I said that red would be like sparkfun
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[13:04] <m1x10> No
[13:04] <m1x10> red is gay
[13:04] <m1x10> :P
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah you see
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> blue with white font
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> those are the colours of Greece
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[13:04] <m1x10> loooool
[13:05] <m1x10> you just red my mind
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander> if I do a PCB in the future
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander> maybe I do it yellow with black
[13:05] <m1x10> yeah
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander> because that matches germany
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[13:05] <m1x10> so what we do?
[13:05] <Lunar_Lander> blue
[13:05] <m1x10> ok
[13:06] <m1x10> 20$ each
[13:06] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[13:06] <Lunar_Lander> that should be OK
[13:06] <m1x10> will you send me the crystals and their sockets?
[13:06] <Lunar_Lander> how many do you need?
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> and can Farnell send to you direcly with me paying?
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> like the "gift" option on amazon
[13:07] <griffonbot> @steamfire: Four more rain-activated balloon payload separators. Ready for more outdoor testing! #UKHAS #arhab http://t.co/nqS9gk7 [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/85333379112910848]
[13:07] <m1x10> I dont know.
[13:07] <m1x10> Can u check that?
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> I'll find out
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:07] <m1x10> never used farnell
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> np
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> cause that would be best
[13:08] <m1x10> ok
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> if not, I can order them and send them on to you from here
[13:08] <m1x10> yes, i need to know the price
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> what number do you need?
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> I mean how many
[13:08] <m1x10> thats why im asking. Tomorrow i will go to bank to put money on paypal. And i need to know how much to put.
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:09] <m1x10> 5 crystals and 5 sockets are enough
[13:09] <m1x10> but order for yourself too
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> OK, let's see
[13:09] <m1x10> yeah goon
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> do you think 8 of each are good?
[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> so 5 for you, 3 for me
[13:10] <m1x10> yes
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[13:10] <m1x10> 4,4 also is normal
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander> now I'll check
[13:10] <m1x10> ping fsphil
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> http://uk.farnell.com/aker/c-7-3728-18-3050-x/crystal-hc49-u-tht-7-3728mhz/dp/1538711
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> those you wanted right?
[13:11] <m1x10> yes
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[13:11] <m1x10> and this http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=4695422
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> the sockets can only be bought in packs of 10
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: pong
[13:11] <m1x10> omg.ok.
[13:11] <m1x10> hi SpeedEvil
[13:12] <m1x10> got some 2min to explain me something?
[13:12] <Lunar_Lander> so I think I order
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: how cheese is made?
[13:12] <Lunar_Lander> and then put 4 crys. and 4 sockets in the mail for you
[13:12] <jgrahamc> So a technical datasheet on expanding foam says that it's happy between -40C and 100C
[13:12] <m1x10> seeedstudio says pcb thickness 1.6mm. What If i choose 2mm? What is the role of the pcb thickness?
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: little.
[13:13] <m1x10> there is not change in price
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: There is a tiny difference in capacitance between the two sides, and it's about twice as resistant to bending
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> It's also heavier
[13:13] <m1x10> it will only increase weight?
[13:13] <m1x10> yes
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander> m1x10 the price of four sockets and four crystals is 7.23 €
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much.
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander> now I check shipping
[13:14] <Randomskk> also if you had anything like an edge mounted SMA connector you'd have to get the correct width
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> It's only physical differences
[13:14] <BrainDamage> if you're making RF circuits, it will matter, but you're not
[13:14] <Randomskk> and as BrainDamage says, for RF circuits it will change microstrip and similar calculations
[13:14] <m1x10> im have sma connector and ground plane on my pcb
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: Also, some edge mounted connectors and slots require a particular board thickness
[13:15] <m1x10> Lunar_Lander give me a final price and we see ..
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander> Farnell Germany sells the sockets single
[13:16] <Lunar_Lander> that is better
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> 15 € it is
[13:34] <m1x10> ok
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[13:35] <mixio> $ or E?
[13:36] <Lunar_Lander> euro
[13:37] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: please set your client to send utf-8 strings :/
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> ok
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[13:40] <mixio> so
[13:41] <mixio> 7.5 each ?
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> no 30 euro in total
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> 15 each
[13:41] <mixio> omg
[13:41] <mixio> !
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:41] <mixio> for 10 crystals and 10 sockets?
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> 8
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[13:42] <mixio> make it
[13:42] <mixio> 6 and 6
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[13:42] <mixio> 3 each
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> this is 24 total
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> 12 each
[13:43] <mixio> no lol
[13:43] <mixio> 3 each
[13:43] <mixio> 3sockets me 3 sockets you, 3 crystals me 3 crystals you
[13:44] <mixio> 6 & 6
[13:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I was talking in euro
[13:44] <mixio> ahhh lol
[13:44] <mixio> omg
[13:44] <Lunar_Lander> but now I have to find out how to sign up as student
[13:44] <mixio> 27C start to mulfunction mybrain
[13:44] <Lunar_Lander> it seems like you can only sign up as a company or student
[13:44] <kristianpaul> hello
[13:45] <kristianpaul> Any octave hacker around, i have a some questions about lasterror and displaying structures information :-)
[13:47] <mixio> why is so expensive
[13:47] <mixio> 24 euros?
[13:48] <mixio> 25euro we pay for the pcbs
[13:48] <mixio> and 25 euro for just 6 crystals
[13:48] <mixio> i dont get it
[13:48] <Lunar_Lander> I just read that farnell is sometimes called "the pharmacy" because of the prices
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[13:51] <Elwell> RS is as bad :-/
[13:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:52] Action: Elwell is trying to make up a list of 'bits' and its not going to be cheap
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[13:53] <mixio> i have to put in the bank 54euros
[13:53] <mixio> i mean in paypal
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:53] <mixio> tx1: 28, pcb: 14E, farnell: 12E
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:54] <mixio> i used paypal's currency converter
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Some more on satellite modems... Re: Strange satellite modem
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[13:57] <m1x10> brb
[13:57] <Lunar_Lander> me too
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[14:06] <fsphil> RS may be worse
[14:06] <fsphil> than farnell
[14:06] <fsphil> but not by much
[14:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:07] SamSilverM (2985f42b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.133.244.43) joined #highaltitude.
[14:07] <Lunar_Lander> I just wrote them if I can sign up as a student now that I wrongly used the normal signup
[14:07] nickolai (~nickolai@c-98-221-21-20.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:09] <Laurenceb> http://pixhawk.ethz.ch/wiki/electronics/imu
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[14:12] <Dan-K2VOL> mornin
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[14:13] <fsphil> hehe
[14:13] <fsphil> Dan's in a rush
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[14:13] <mixio> ok
[14:13] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:15] <mixio> Lunar_Lander
[14:15] <mixio> first I need to testthe TX1 module
[14:15] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[14:15] <mixio> so that its 10mw rf output
[14:16] <mixio> is enough
[14:17] <mixio> you can go on with the farnell order though
[14:17] <Zuph> Morning again Dan-K2VOL :-p
[14:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[14:19] <SamSilverM> Morning Dan-K2VOL
[14:21] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil can you be punished if you sign up in the normal farnell login?
[14:21] <Lunar_Lander> do you know that?
[14:23] WillDuckworth (c2498332@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.73.131.50) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[14:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Experiments with expanding foam"
[14:27] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[14:32] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Experiments with expanding foam"
[14:32] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, not sure what you mean. farnell can't really do anything to you other than not sell you stuff?
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> I thought they could file a fraud thing or so
[14:33] <fsphil> doubt it - it wouldn't be worth it
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[14:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:36] <Elwell> anyone know what farnell's screening is for the dead-tree version of their catalogue?
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[14:51] <Laurenceb> http://www.mbridgetech.com/pressure-sensors.php <-niiiceee
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[14:57] <jevin> howdy, nickolai!
[14:58] <W0OTM> Hi All
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[15:07] <ruku> Man.
[15:07] <Laurenceb> woman
[15:07] <ruku> Atmel's documentation is absolutely useless for anything but the old mega / tinies.
[15:08] Nick change: grummund_ -> grummund
[15:10] <fsphil> info
[15:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Experiments with expanding foam"
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[15:21] <SamSilverM> bbl
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[15:29] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] Experiments with expanding foam"
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[15:43] <SamSilver> bbl
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[15:52] <jevin> does anyone have experience with a gps simulator?
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> jevin yes
[15:53] <jevin> i'm looking into using a ettus SDR as a gps simulator to V&V my hardware/software before flight
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> then no. I have experience simulating the serial NMEA output
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> not the RF signals from the GPS constellation
[15:54] <jevin> Dan-K2VOL, what do you think about simulating a predicted flight trajectory? i'm especially concerned with an 18km limit on my gps module
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> then you shouldn't use that module
[15:54] <jevin> i have a firmware that allegedly removes the restriction but i have no way to test without a simulator or actually sending it up on a flight :-P
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL> just use a module that someone else has proved to work in the air - there's been thousands of balloon flights with all the gps brands
[15:55] <Zuph> jevin: Send up the unverified module with a verified module, for testing.
[15:55] <jevin> Dan-K2VOL, I see. Good idea about simulating the NMEA output. did you use an existing piece of software to do so?
[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> would be neat to have an open source GPS signal generator, however, I suspect it would be horrendously difficult
[15:56] <jevin> Zuph, right, right, but I'd like to send up the module instead of the COTS receiver for weight reasons
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> jevin, there are some existing softwares, but we are cheap and just wrote our own
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> for arduino
[15:56] <jevin> i came across this [0] but it costs $$$. luckily i think i could get my university to pay for it! [0]: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwireless.vt.edu%2Fsymposium%2F2011%2Fposters%2FGPS%2520Signal%2520Simulation_Brown.pdf&ei=HKgITvOoL87SgQeP9eHEDQ&usg=AFQjCNFcnhDPujz7A2iHqe_Gj6ISWw7GiQ&sig2=65I7M3p_prWIGR36FF0now
[15:56] <jevin> pardon my google: http://wireless.vt.edu/symposium/2011/posters/GPS%20Signal%20Simulation_Brown.pdf
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL> will post the code to github tonight if you are intereste
[15:57] <jevin> i would appreciate that, thanks!
[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL> very neat jevin
[15:58] <jevin> there are several FOSS gps SDR receivers but I haven't seen a simulator equivalent yet
[15:58] <Dan-K2VOL> ours is very simple, allows you to plug in a few points and it generates path between them and plays it in realtime at boot
[15:59] <Dan-K2VOL> gtg, will post an email to the ukhas list in 12 hours with a link to the source
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> In principle, a simulator is 'easy'
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> As you can utterly ignore ionosphere, and stuff.
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> All you need is a ~3MHz or so ~8 bit DAC, a 4 quadrant mixer, and a microwave reference.
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> And a gigabyte of RAM every 5 min
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> For precomputation.
[16:01] <jevin> SpeedEvil, time multiplexing the different satellites into the RF?
[16:01] <Zuph> jevin: What are your weight restrictions? There are balloon-capable GPS units that weigh in the 20 gram range, with antenna.
[16:01] <jevin> SpeedEvil, or use a FPGA for on the fly generation? ;-)
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> jevin: No. They all mix into the output stream in the same way.
[16:02] <jevin> Zuph, unsure about the weight restrictions now, but my parter has already purchased a garmin 18x unit. i would appreciate a link to the receiver that you're talking about
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> jevin: E.G. satellite A has its PRN code at phase x, and frequency Y, and is mixed with the carrier at Q Hz off 'zero'
[16:02] <jgrahamc> Lassen IQ is really small, light and works at altitude
[16:03] <jevin> SpeedEvil, I see! *dives into gps references*
[16:04] <Zuph> jevin: Lassen IQ, http://www.inventeksys.com/html/ism300f2-c5-v0004.html, https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=144, there are others, too.
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> Actually - no - you'll need a carrier frequency slightly offset from the GPS signals I think. Something along those lines though
[16:05] <jevin> now THAT would be a neat side project: a purpose built FOSS gps simulator
[16:05] <jevin> not that balloons aren't neat
[16:06] <jevin> Zuph, thank you for those lnks
[16:06] <jevin> links*
[16:07] <jevin> are those patch antennas sensitive to orientation during flight?
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[16:07] <jevin> or is "just point it up" the rule of thumb?
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much up
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> The hard part is possibly the software, ratehr than the hardware.
[16:08] <Zuph> Yeah, "Mostly Up" will get you pretty good reception. There are modules out there that can be paired with helical antennas, if you're picky.
[16:09] <Zuph> wb8elk swears by them.
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> Once you've got a nice stable reference, it should all 'just work' - it will be essentially immune to most errors, as they will drop out due to the modulation format.
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[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Then you just need to do all the annoying orbital calculations, and formatting into the mnavigation messages
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> And something to load the RAM over USB
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[16:15] <BudgetEngineer> Has anyone ever had problems with the payload of a High Altitude balloon blowing apart from the air pressure drop?
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> well budgetengineer that's what happens to all latex balloons
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> unless the somehow lose helium
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> oh sorry, thought you said balloon, the payload I've not heard of that problem, the air is going to get out through the cracks in most amateur construction pretty easily
[16:21] <BudgetEngineer> Ok, thanks for the clarification.
[16:24] <BudgetEngineer> Is there ever a problem with the payload getting too cold? Would I need to add some sort of heater?
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> typical ascent rate is 1000 feet per minute
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, cold is the major problem
[16:25] <BudgetEngineer> How do you guys handle that?
[16:25] <Dan-K2VOL> heat is not needed in the daytime, just some insulation
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> typically just use styrofoam boxes, one guy has flown several succesful flights using just a black foam-core board, his circuits taped to it, and wrapped 3 layers of small bubble wrap around it. Kept it above freezing the whole flight
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> so it doesn't have to be complex
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> most either make their own box out of foam board or use a foam dry-ice shipping container, or a foam drink cooler
[16:27] <BudgetEngineer> I'll probably used that foam house insulation. I can get it really cheap.
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> BudgetEngineer: That works well
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> yep
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> BudgetEngineer: Do the sums - delta-t* heat conductivity * box area / thickness
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> painting it a dark color helps a lot too
[16:28] <BudgetEngineer> If you don't mind, what kind of testing do you do before the flight?
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> solar radiation is significant that high up
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> you end up with a small box without very thick walls needing only a few watts to keep it toasty.
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> Toasty as in not many degrees under freezing.
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> So you can do reasonable duration tests in the freezer
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> use dry ice to see what temperature things start having problems at
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[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> use a GPS serial simulator if you've got any processing of the GPS data in your flight computer (cross the prime meridian if you need to in flight
[16:30] <BudgetEngineer> yeah, I though dry ice would be the answer! I'll be launching in a month over Kansas in the US, so it will be very warm and sunny
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, are you going to GPSL?
[16:31] <Dan-K2VOL> oh wait sorry, I forgot it wasn't in Kansas this year, there's a big amateur balloon conference each summer, usually in kansas, but this year it's in Colorado
[16:31] <Dan-K2VOL> Great Plains Super Launch
[16:31] <BudgetEngineer> Grrr...just missed it!
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> oh?
[16:33] <BudgetEngineer> Sorry, I mean If I went last year it would have been in the same place. It has happened yet, it's on the 27th of July.
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[16:39] <BudgetEngineer> I don't know if you have found this, but L. Paul Verhage has a 15-chapter "guide" for launching a balloon, though the info seems a bit outdated.
[16:39] <BudgetEngineer> the URL is http://www.parallax.com/Resources/ApplicationsContests/Science/NearSpace/tabid/567/Default.aspx
[16:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Re: Some more on satellite modems... Re: Strange satellite
[16:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Brad Luyster "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Some more on satellite modems... Re: Strange
[16:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Re: Some more on satellite modems... Re: Strange satellite
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[16:59] Nick change: jkominar_ -> jkominar
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[17:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Brad Luyster "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Some more on satellite modems... Re: Strange
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[17:11] <Lunar_Lander> wb mixio
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[17:19] <m1x10> im alive?
[17:19] <m1x10> Lunar_Lander
[17:20] <m1x10> can u search farnell for battery holder 6 AAA
[17:21] <m1x10> like this: http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1148/specs
[17:21] <m1x10> but not with wires but with clip
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> they have none for 6
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> only 3 or 4
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[17:24] <m1x10> ahh
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:24] <m1x10> i soldered a power jack on the battery holder and its not working well
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
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[17:30] <m1x10> i dont know. i put it on the multimeter and it shows good voltage
[17:30] <m1x10> 10V
[17:31] <m1x10> from 6 x1.5
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:31] <m1x10> i put it on arduino and it cant work
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[17:31] <m1x10> i need to push it in random way to work
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> strange
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[18:05] <cuddykid> increasingly looks like friday launch is off
[18:06] Nick change: andrew_apex -> danielsaul
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[18:08] <jcoxon> evening
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> hi jcoxon
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> sorry to hear that cuddykid
[18:11] <cuddykid> it's a real pain where I am, permission can only be obtained for W/SW direction however prevailing is predominantly towards E/SE!
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[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL1
[18:13] <jcoxon> cuddykid, welcome to HAB :-(
[18:13] <cuddykid> haha :(
[18:13] <cuddykid> got until 11th July, so hopefully winds will change, however, up until 4th looks to be bad
[18:15] <cuddykid> that solar plane at paris air show looks awesome
[18:15] Action: cuddykid thinks of high altitude glider possibility :P
[18:16] <fsphil> A box of cookies for the first person to make a solar power glider that can stay up there a week :)
[18:16] <cuddykid> haha
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Easy - if you cheat
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> Find somewhere with steady appropriate winds and do the dynamic soaring thing.
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> Or do the poles.
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon cuddykid do you always get a time frame on the NOTAM?
[18:18] <cuddykid> think so
[18:18] <jcoxon> well the cambridge ones are more unlimited
[18:18] <cuddykid> have to give a date range on the form
[18:19] <cuddykid> yeah, apart from Cam launche
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[18:19] <fsphil> I used to request a two week window
[18:19] <fsphil> figure if one weekend was bad, the other might be ok
[18:20] <Laurenceb_> hmm i suspect my pressure sensor may be suffering from 1/f noise
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[18:20] <Laurenceb_> this is not good :S
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> August 1 2011 to August 1 12011
[18:25] <Dan-K2VOL1> hi Lunar_Lander
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[18:43] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: do you know much about shot vrs flicker noise?
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> can shot be resistor substrate dependant?
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[18:58] <ruku> Has anyone used an AVR Dragon to program an xmega?
[18:58] <ruku> I can't quite figure what pins to use.
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[19:03] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I think so - but it's not something I know much about
[19:03] <RocketBoy> cuddykid: where are you having the permit problems?
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[19:07] <Laurenceb_> ok
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> this noise is confusing me a lot
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> seems i didnt think of shot noise before, but the equations i can find suggests its still three times lower than the noise im seeing
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> im worried about flicker noise as theres no way to get rid of that
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[19:09] <Laurenceb_> but honeywell application notes on similar sensors suggests its a couple of orders of mag smaller than the noise im observing
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[19:10] <Laurenceb_> very high frequency shot noise could be leaking through the front end
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> You've stuck a scope on the various supplies and referecnes?
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> a while back, dont have anything to hand atm
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> it all looked good
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> ive just taken an fft of some dumped pitot noise, it looks pretty much like what youd expect from the front end filter - not really like 1/f
[19:13] <linear_shift_p4> Hi. Anyone know what the size and weight limits are for amateur high altitude balloons?
[19:13] <Zuph> linear_shift_p4: Depends on where you are.
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> guess that suggests high frequency shot noise being aliased down by the switched cap filter is a possibility
[19:13] <linear_shift_p4> Zuph: USA.
[19:14] <Zuph> linear_shift_p4: See this: http://www.eoss.org/pubs/far_annotated.htm
[19:14] <Zuph> In short, 12 lbs total, no more than 6 lbs per container, with certain cross-sectional density requirements.
[19:14] <Zuph> But really, read that link.
[19:14] <Dan-K2VOL1> yep
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[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph did you hear of the german balloon?
[19:26] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: I did not.
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> it ascended on Saturday at Lake Constance
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[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> and it landed in Northern Italy in 15 m high trees
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> but it has been recovered
[19:28] <Zuph> Very nice :)
[19:28] <Zuph> What sort of payload was it carrying?
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> it had three payloads
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> the main payload had geiger counters, pressure, temperature, humidity sensor
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> sent data to APRS
[19:29] <fsphil> not the sort of think you want to leave in a tree
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> the second payload had a 20 m CW xmitter and a energy harvester
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> the third one measured pressure in the balloon and was solar powered
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> it was sending its data via a radio link to the main box
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[19:32] <linear_shift_p4> Is there any provision for "indefinite" balloon flights?
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> superpressure ballons
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> +o
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> if properly constructed, such a thing can circle the world and be aloft for a year
[19:33] <linear_shift_p4> No, I mean via the FAA regulations.
[19:33] <Zuph> linear_shift_p4: Nope, not at all. This is something that Dan-K2VOL1 and myself have some experience with (Dan more than me.)
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph so a SP circumnavigation is allowed?
[19:34] <Zuph> linear_shift_p4: Well, then you get into international regs.
[19:35] <linear_shift_p4> Zuph: So you can't do anything indefinite?
[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> linear_shift_p4, one additional thing to consider is the degree of difficulty in doing a long duration flight
[19:35] <Zuph> linear_shift_p4: There are ICAO regs and suggestions which most of europe has adopted. They define things slightly different. For example, the biggest FAR 101 balloon would be an ICAO "heavy" balloon, which is roughly equivalent to a non FAR balloon as far as regulatory issues go.
[19:35] <Zuph> linear_shift_p4: It's allowed, you just have to follow the regs of every country you fly over (or hope they don't care).
[19:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> linear_shift_p4 what's your purpose
[19:36] <Zuph> linear_shift_p4: As far as I know, no one's gotten a free trip to The Hague out of HABing :-p
[19:36] <Dan-K2VOL1> yet.
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[19:37] <linear_shift_p4> Dan-K2VOL1: Basically a little high altitude camera. Uses a video camera similar to the first television systems.
[19:37] <linear_shift_p4> Transmits on the 40.68 MHz ISM band.
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL1> is it a personal project?
[19:38] <linear_shift_p4> Yeah.
[19:38] <linear_shift_p4> Basically just something in conception right now.
[19:38] <Dan-K2VOL1> what's your purpose of doing an indefinite flight?
[19:39] <Zuph> For reference, no amateur has every acheived anything close to circumnnaviation in a small SP or ZP balloon.
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> not even an ocean crossing
[19:39] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1 and his buddies from Knoxville hold the current record.
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:39] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL1 and his buddies from Louisville are trying to break that record.
[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:39] <Dan-K2VOL1> with Zuph :-)
[19:40] <Zuph> heh
[19:40] <linear_shift_p4> Dan-K2VOL1: I'm hoping to see meteors more clearly. :P
[19:40] <linear_shift_p4> Dunno how long it'll be up there.
[19:41] <linear_shift_p4> Basically as long as it'll stay up.
[19:41] <Dan-K2VOL1> interesting experiment, however it will not stay near you when it's up
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:42] <linear_shift_p4> Yeah. It does stay below the ionosphere though, right?
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL1 did I ever told you of Manhigh IV?
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> it was supposed to be a 5 day manned flight
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> they looked at launching at Alaska
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL1> linear_shift_p4 depending on the altitude, it will usually go out of direct radio range in a few hours (500 miles or so)
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL1> nice Lunar_Lander
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> then the wind would drift it along the west coast, turn east across the south (Texas) and then to the north
[19:43] <linear_shift_p4> Meaning HF range?
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> landing in New Jersey or so
[19:43] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't know if a balloon would really fly like that
[19:43] <linear_shift_p4> Well, more between HF and the 6m band, but you get the idea.
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> I think Dan-K2VOL1 speaks about getting your camera back
[19:45] <linear_shift_p4> Ah.
[19:46] <linear_shift_p4> Well, it'll be cheap, and I know I'll probably never recover the thing. I've got the money to build and launch maybe after awhile, but not really any to run after it.
[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> http://toastytech.com/guis/riscosmenus.gif
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> ah the memories XD
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[19:47] <Dan-K2VOL1> linear_shift_p4 Lunar_Lander no, I speak of not getting a signal from your TV camera after a few hours, meaning you will not need it in the air longer than that unless you have receivers elsewhere
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:48] <linear_shift_p4> Ah.
[19:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> also you will not have enough power onboard for indefinite continuous TV transmission
[19:48] <linear_shift_p4> That's what I figured.
[19:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> if you keep within the FAA exempt regulations
[19:48] <linear_shift_p4> So no solar panels?
[19:49] <Dan-K2VOL1> linear_shift_p4 with continuous TV transmission you will need 5 watts of power or more, and solar panels to provide that much continuous power will be far too heavy
[19:51] <Dan-K2VOL1> The experiment is a great idea, to see meteors from up there, and now it's good that you've come here to see how balloons could do the job
[19:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:51] <linear_shift_p4> Ok.
[19:51] <linear_shift_p4> Yeah, I guess I better just put in for a short trip. :P
[19:52] <Dan-K2VOL1> that's a good start, unless you can intelligently process the video onboard and downlink specific frames using a common radio protocol and frequency later
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> there are guys on here who are good at still image transmission from balloons, and there are lots of guys in the states who are good at live SD TV from balloons
[19:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> where in the USA are you linear_shift_p4
[19:54] <linear_shift_p4> Well, it's a hybrid digital analog transmitter. Digitizes the signal from the camera, then passes it through a DAC to modulate the carrier. Would work well with a SDR on the other end so I don't have to have a total power house TXer.
[19:54] <linear_shift_p4> Dan-K2VOL1: Arizona
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[19:56] <linear_shift_p4> The effective "baud" rate is 30 kbps. Only difference is is there is no pulse seperation and the pulses have variable amplitude.
[19:56] <linear_shift_p4> 100x100 px @ 3 fps.
[19:57] <Dan-K2VOL1> is it a custom protocol?
[19:57] <linear_shift_p4> Yeah.
[19:57] <linear_shift_p4> Basically trying to shove as much as possible into 30 kHz.
[19:57] <linear_shift_p4> Uses an ISM band, so there shouldn't be any issues.
[19:58] <linear_shift_p4> The receiver on the other end is digital (an SDR), so it'll basically do the reverse of the transmitter.
[19:59] <linear_shift_p4> It's kind of analog made for digital.
[20:00] <linear_shift_p4> Basically does the same thing as the old ancient TV cameras, just better for a digital system.
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[20:01] <linear_shift_p4> A way to see it is just an analog envelope, but quantized.
[20:02] <linear_shift_p4> The digital part in the middle also allows for pre-processing.
[20:03] <linear_shift_p4> The bit depth doesn't factor in either, since it's just amplitude, so it doesn't matter in the bandwidth issue.
[20:04] <Zuph> Sounds interesting. Tested it out on the ground yet?
[20:04] <linear_shift_p4> Nope. Only a concept right now.
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[20:07] <linear_shift_p4> Might be able to muster up the funds sometime soon though.
[20:08] <linear_shift_p4> Would be an interesting little video transmitter project if it doesn't make it to a balloon.
[20:08] <linear_shift_p4> *even it
[20:09] <linear_shift_p4> *even if
[20:09] <Zuph> Absolutely. Sounds neat.
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:11] <linear_shift_p4> Would probably be more doable than this radio astronomy crap I'm been trying to get into for awhile.
[20:11] <linear_shift_p4> Living on a little postage stamp house property doesn't make well for big antennas. :P
[20:12] <linear_shift_p4> Even if money weren't a factor.
[20:15] <linear_shift_p4> Ack. I need to go tend to my mutts. Bbl.
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[20:17] <Dan-K2VOL1> linear_shift_p4 be sure to test your protocol on the ground with weak signals, fading etc.
[20:23] <ruku> For reference anyone, the ISP port on the AVR Dragon doubles as the PDI port. At least, when I was programing the xmega32A4 from avr studio 5.
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL1> interesting ruku
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[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon fsphil
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/ballonprojekt/20110605_payload-ik3wuz-car.jpg
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> recovery complete
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> (with Diego, IK3WUZ)
[21:10] <fsphil> a happy ending :)
[21:11] <jcoxon> hooray
[21:11] <jcoxon> guess that lots of mountain rescue guys will be ham radio operators as well
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: ping
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:13] <BudgetEngineer> Quick question regarding filling the balloon - what's the typical diameter of the filling nozzle/pipe for an average launch?
[21:13] <fsphil> now there's an idea, try and contact some of the sota guys :)
[21:14] <jcoxon> i might do sota this weekend
[21:14] <jcoxon> if the weather is good
[21:14] <jcoxon> as i've got a free day
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> btw jcoxon
[21:16] <jcoxon> uhuh
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> last year at Ham Radio I asked at the respective delegation: "Is ARHAB allowed in Qatar?"
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> he promised to ask and write me an e-mail
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> nothing till now
[21:16] <fsphil> on HF jcoxon?
[21:16] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah could do
[21:16] <fsphil> might have a go
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[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil jcoxon one of the thoughts in 2010 was if a balloon over the Alps and one over Qatar could communicate
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[21:17] <BudgetEngineer> Quick question regarding filling the balloon - what's the typical diameter of the filling nozzle/pipe for an average launch?
[21:18] <fsphil> the line-of-sight range between two balloons would be amazing
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:18] <fsphil> BrainDamage, I used a standard garden hose. the neck of the balloon can be folded around it and secured with cable ties
[21:19] <jcoxon> yeah it doesn't matter too much
[21:19] <BudgetEngineer> how big is TOO big of a filling pipe?
[21:20] <BudgetEngineer> I've got some 1.5" PVC pipe and fittings laying around, but they look awfully big.
[21:21] <fsphil> that would be on the large side
[21:21] <Randomskk> meh
[21:21] <BudgetEngineer> So 1" is a safer bet?
[21:21] <Randomskk> 1"'s definitely fine
[21:21] <fsphil> if it fits the neck though, should be fine
[21:21] <Randomskk> but to be honest 1.5" should be fine too
[21:21] <Randomskk> it does depend on your balloon, essentially.
[21:21] <BudgetEngineer> I won't get the balloon until a week before the launch, its a Kaymont 1200 gram.
[21:22] <BudgetEngineer> They're very backordered
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[21:25] <fsphil> cutting it fine :)
[21:26] <BudgetEngineer> OK thanks.
[21:27] <ruku> Ahaaaa.
[21:27] <ruku> Ok this dragon is starting to make a little more sense.
[21:28] <ruku> After working on it all day I've finally gotten it to program an x32a4
[21:28] <ruku> With the studio and avrdude.
[21:29] <ruku> The secret is once the Jungo drivers are installed, you can use the ISP port on the device as the PDI port
[21:29] <ruku> But to use avrdude with the dragon, you have to install libusb32-filter on top of it -- at least for windows
[21:30] <ruku> The Junko drivers get in the way, so you put filter lib on top so you can share.
[21:31] <fsphil> in the old days all you needed to tame a dragon was a maiden
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[22:07] <Elwell> you try finding fair maidens round here...
[22:07] <Elwell> and pure ones? ha!
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil the sentence could be concluded
[22:08] <fsphil> lol
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> "nowadays, it's metal knights and dragons bashing and crashing in our arena! it's robot wars!"
[22:08] <fsphil> nah, that's doesn't rhyme
[22:09] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb_: SoftGNSS is running !!
[22:09] <kristianpaul> well some minors errors but better than nothing PRN part seems to work
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:09] <kristianpaul> so i wonder if you have some binary data with know PRN to try out?
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> oh sweet
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> on a pc?
[22:10] <kristianpaul> yes
[22:10] <Laurenceb_> do you have a front end?
[22:10] <kristianpaul> yes, but i want to test it with data already formated
[22:11] <kristianpaul> matlab will not understanbd my IIQQIIQQ format for sure..
[22:11] <kristianpaul> octave***
[22:11] <kristianpaul> sorry xD
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> i have some log files, but its huge
[22:12] <kristianpaul> you have it in the "cloud" or locally?
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> on my hdd
[22:12] <kristianpaul> how huge¡
[22:12] <kristianpaul> ?
[22:13] <kristianpaul> also i dont need all the data, some milliseconds are okay i guess
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> ill have a look and see what i can find
[22:14] <kristianpaul> :)
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[22:14] <Laurenceb_> 68MB is my smallest
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> i could scp it to you maybe
[22:14] <kristianpaul> yeah
[22:15] <kristianpaul> do you have a public ssh key right?
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil?
[22:15] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb_: or try http://wikisend.com/
[22:15] <kristianpaul> is fast and easy :-]
[22:15] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander!
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> http://uk.farnell.com/aker/c-14-7456-18-3050-x/crystal-hc49-u-tht-14-7456mhz/dp/1538719
[22:16] <Laurenceb_> ok, just a sec
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> this is double the frequency of m1x10's crystal
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> I was just told if I use this, I get better performance
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> is that true?
[22:16] <fsphil> your avr will run twice the speed
[22:17] <Laurenceb_> hmm my network is slowwwww
[22:17] <fsphil> but you won't notice
[22:17] <fsphil> well you will notice for things that need timing, like baud rates and such
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[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:18] <fsphil> but unless you're doing a lot of calculations you probably don't need the extra speed
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> sensors and such?
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> kristianpaul: this is going to take 30 minutes or so
[22:18] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb_: is 17:18 here
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> but i know the position to within +-1m or less
[22:18] <kristianpaul> no probme
[22:18] <kristianpaul> good !
[22:18] <kristianpaul> or !!!!!!
[22:18] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb_: https://github.com/kristianpaul/SoftGNSS
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> think the thunderstorm has knocked out part of the network or something
[22:19] <kristianpaul> if you want to tryout there
[22:20] <kristianpaul> or even commit, i can give you acess
[22:20] <kristianpaul> the plot part is a mess..
[22:20] <Laurenceb_> im working on dactyl autopilot full time :P
[22:20] <kristianpaul> also there is a really ulgy hack with pwelch
[22:20] <kristianpaul> sure thats nice
[22:21] <kristianpaul> focus is good, i hope i can focus more in something as time pass..
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[22:27] <kristianpaul> octave is buggier you know, i have some ramdon error in different systems from a fclose..
[22:27] <kristianpaul> but well
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[22:27] <kristianpaul> at least the PRN part seems to work :-)
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> ive gtg
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> should have upload tomorrow
[22:28] <kristianpaul> gtg?
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[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> "got to go"
[22:30] <kristianpaul> ah, bye !!!
[22:30] <kristianpaul> have fun :)
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[00:00] --- Tue Jun 28 2011