highaltitude.log.20110626

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[01:01] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde still on?
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[02:15] <kristianpaul> Hello,
[02:15] <kristianpaul> Any clue about where to get updated ionospheric data for gps, from the web?
[02:15] <kristianpaul> something like when fetching almanacs for current week etc..
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[05:51] <BudgetEngineer> Anybody on?
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[05:52] <SpeedEvil> yes
[05:52] Action: SpeedEvil stabs people who leave in the face.
[05:56] <kristianpaul> Hi !
[05:56] <kristianpaul> ah, late..
[05:57] <kristianpaul> SpeedEvil: what is your GMT btw?
[05:57] <kristianpaul> i always see you on here almost when i do as well.
[05:57] <SpeedEvil> I have a very distrubed sleep pattern.
[05:57] <SpeedEvil> It's currently 7AM
[05:57] <kristianpaul> I see :-)
[05:58] <kristianpaul> 01:00 here
[05:58] <SpeedEvil> Oh - and you do know that the ionospheric datas is in the normal payload data that you get from the GPS?/
[05:58] <kristianpaul> Btw, do you know where i can get inospheric data correction for gps?
[05:58] <kristianpaul> yes
[05:58] <kristianpaul> i know
[05:58] <SpeedEvil> There are places you can download it on the internet too
[05:59] <kristianpaul> like?..
[05:59] <kristianpaul> sorry my google skills dint found it..
[06:00] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/gps/osnetfreeservices/about/overview_osnet.html for example
[06:00] <kristianpaul> i just i cant get yet the normal payload, anyway osgps can work without it..
[06:00] <kristianpaul> let see
[06:00] <SpeedEvil> http://gps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/active.asp
[06:01] <kristianpaul> hum.. this data is geotaged right?
[06:01] <SpeedEvil> Um - as I understand it, you can extract the raw errors from the RINEX data of each site.
[06:02] <kristianpaul> cause i dont live so near of UK...
[06:02] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure of the exact format
[06:02] <SpeedEvil> yes - google RINEX yourcountry
[06:02] <kristianpaul> ah, thats knew for me
[06:02] <SpeedEvil> For example.
[06:02] <kristianpaul> ok
[06:02] <kristianpaul> s/knew/new
[06:03] <kristianpaul> found it !
[06:03] <kristianpaul> http://www2.igac.gov.co/igac_web/contenidos/plantilla_anclasDocs_cont_contDocs.jsp?idMenu=320
[06:03] <kristianpaul> now other mail to write today ;)
[06:04] <SpeedEvil> Why do you want the corrections?
[06:04] <kristianpaul> thanks SpeedEvil, my fault was not look by RINEX, i thought ionospheric was enought :-)
[06:04] <kristianpaul> SpeedEvil: to make sure my osgps setup is update in everything !
[06:04] <SpeedEvil> DO you get a rough fix?
[06:05] <kristianpaul> no yet :/
[06:05] <SpeedEvil> Without ionospheric, you should get +-10s of metres usually
[06:05] <kristianpaul> ahh
[06:05] <SpeedEvil> Ionospheric errors will not stop you getting a fix. Just mean it's not a good quality one.
[06:05] <kristianpaul> ah okay
[06:10] <kristianpaul> SpeedEvil: from your experience what's the minimun amount of sampled seconds i may need to get a fix, considering i can cheat a bit a get alamanac updated?
[06:11] <SpeedEvil> It depends. In the ideal case - ~35-60 seconds - one full cycle of the 30s code.
[06:12] <SpeedEvil> That assumes that you can lock to the satellites rapidly, and not spend any time searching through frequency/phase space for them.
[06:12] <SpeedEvil> Which would be the case if you're doing it offline
[06:13] <SpeedEvil> I think it may actually be possible much faster - 6 seconds - but that will require more cleverness.
[06:13] <kristianpaul> well, my gps atenna is not actually on the roof ;-)
[06:13] <kristianpaul> not indoor, but heading to the windows.
[06:14] <kristianpaul> not the more clear view but i dont have more.
[06:14] <SpeedEvil> Some windows may not allow GPS signals through.
[06:14] <SpeedEvil> Also - you may never get a fix if you only have one or two sats in view.
[06:14] <kristianpaul> i tested with a close source gps receiver and worked, i took that like a "yes it can work with mine"
[06:15] <kristianpaul> (lock to the satellites rapidly) thats seems not so easy with osgps so far..
[06:16] <SpeedEvil> It's not - but consider that you can reprocess the first 2/50ths of a second of the file shousands of times
[06:17] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - refreshing memory - it seems that if you have the ephemeris and clock correction data, then you should be able to get a lock in around 6 seconds (with the above caveats)
[06:17] <kristianpaul> (reprocess) yeah, i neeed to check that with osgps..
[06:18] <kristianpaul> or try it my self.. may be there are already some algoryth implemented in C fot this tasks somwhere else
[06:19] <kristianpaul> not the ones for osgps, code still a bit crazy for me to understand yet..
[06:19] <kristianpaul> SpeedEvil: http://home.earthlink.net/~cwkelley/receiver_operation.htm
[06:19] <kristianpaul> me still on State 3 ..
[06:21] <SpeedEvil> The basic outline shown in http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html can work too
[06:21] <SpeedEvil> GPS is really simple to receive.
[06:22] <SpeedEvil> It's hard to recieve fast, with short lock times.
[06:23] <kristianpaul> hum, DocScrutinizer pointed that link too, but i dint take a look at it, i'll do then !!
[06:23] <kristianpaul> (really simple to receive) thats true, but as unix you take a bit to understand it is ;)
[06:23] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
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[06:30] <kristianpaul> sweet :) http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gif/bitsanim.gif
[06:30] <SpeedEvil> It is nice
[06:31] <SpeedEvil> Slightly complicated by the fact that this obscures the need to lock in both frequency and phase space
[06:32] <kristianpaul> hum, so if my GPS RF IC, provides data in complex mode, it means i will need less duplicate logic when correlating
[06:33] <kristianpaul> so i can drop some both I and Q extra arms from namuru :D
[06:34] <SpeedEvil> Umm. I think you always need to seperate it - but I'm not properly awake.
[06:34] <kristianpaul> hey but there is no code snipets on that link SpeedEvil
[06:34] <kristianpaul> yeah i read that on akos book
[06:35] <SpeedEvil> yes - it's just diagrams - through which you can implement code
[06:35] <kristianpaul> there is a level of uncertain untik some point of code
[06:35] <SpeedEvil> ?/
[06:35] <kristianpaul> diagrams looks clear i cant said not
[06:35] <kristianpaul> I just read it once.. i need to confirm i qoute better
[06:36] <kristianpaul> and*
[06:36] <SpeedEvil> The diagrams are lots easier to understand - trying to build understanding from code can be hard.
[06:36] <kristianpaul> oh tell me that...
[06:37] <kristianpaul> also code written 10~ years before..
[06:37] <kristianpaul> even DSP hardware dint looks so hard to implement i have to confess
[06:38] <kristianpaul> I'm just trying to re-use code, but may be to close to said _JFDI_
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[06:40] <SpeedEvil> Depends what you're writing it for.
[06:40] <SpeedEvil> Proof of concept code is one thing.
[06:40] <kristianpaul> I need that one ;)
[06:40] <SpeedEvil> Code to produce a rapid and noise tollerant position under bad conditions is quite another.
[06:41] <kristianpaul> sure :-)
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[06:56] <mixio> Good morning europe
[06:56] <kristianpaul> hello
[07:00] <Darkside> 4:30pm here :P
[07:01] <kristianpaul> 02:01 :-)
[07:02] <kristianpaul> SpeedEvil: what about Clock offset how it can influence, ie, tracking?
[07:02] <SpeedEvil> There is no global clock offset.
[07:03] <SpeedEvil> You have a local clock that runs at a (hopefully) pretty constant speed.
[07:03] <SpeedEvil> You then do all the tracking and aquisition against that clock.
[07:03] <kristianpaul> sure, my sige evb had set some ppm to fix the offet
[07:03] <kristianpaul> clock offset*
[07:03] <kristianpaul> yes sure,
[07:04] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't make any difference if the clock is +100ppm out, as it just adds a velocity of 300m/s to the satellite positions.
[07:04] <kristianpaul> k
[07:04] <SpeedEvil> And you need to deal with +-2km/s or so anyway.
[07:05] <kristianpaul> looks like that's not a problen for me now
[07:05] <SpeedEvil> So, unless you're trying to lock the clock to a particular satellite - which will mean you can't have it locked to others - then the clock isn't really important.
[07:05] <mixio> Darkside: thats why i said europe only :0
[07:05] <kristianpaul> perfect !
[07:06] <SpeedEvil> Once you get a rough fix, then you use it to better work out what the clock frequency is. And you then use continuing fixes to refine your idea of the clock drift - or correct the clock drift in hardware.
[07:09] <kristianpaul> :-)
[07:10] <kristianpaul> I think i have some ideas for today in some hrs, for now, bed,,
[07:10] <kristianpaul> nite all
[07:10] <SpeedEvil> :)
[07:10] <kristianpaul> thanks for *usefull* the comments SpeedEvil
[07:14] <SpeedEvil> np
[07:45] <mixio> the power-down mode seems to cause some issues to my program. Instead I manually disable timer1,2 uart0,1 adc, spi, twi then delay(30000) and then enable them again. But still those cause issues.
[07:49] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: What stack are you using to program the stm32?
[07:49] <mixio> damn! GPS got lock but shows im in another place. very far from the actual!
[07:49] <SpeedEvil> Sure you've not got the coordinates backwards?
[07:52] <mixio> 40.4304,23.8141
[07:52] <mixio> lat,lng
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[07:52] <mixio> put it to google earth and shows me at least 100km far from actual
[07:53] <mattltm> Morning
[07:55] <mixio> I believe the timer1,2 enable disable functions mess the whole cpu :)
[07:55] <mixio> morning mattltm
[07:56] <Hiena> Hmmm, anybody, ever played with the paparazzi UAV system?
[07:56] <Hiena> I need some log file to test a code.
[07:56] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: I believe Laurenceb looked briefly at it
[07:57] <mixio> maybe after enabling timers they need some time for their clocks to reach normal status
[07:59] <Hiena> I'm working on to make legal the UAV flights, and needs to make realtime ADB transponder communication to the flight control.
[08:04] Action: SpeedEvil suspects that's not Apple Desktop Bus.
[08:07] <Hiena> Nope. It's same transponder used by the normal flights.
[08:08] <SpeedEvil> I'd have assumed you need a really expensive certified module.
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[08:10] <Hiena> The basic idea, to connect it to the base station, and feed with the telemetry. So the flight control has a ghost plane which transmit correct location informations, yet not shows up in the radar.
[08:14] <Hiena> That gives way to separate the UAVs and the manned planes. The manned planes shows up on the radar and has ADB signals. The university's ADB module has two serial input (one for a gps and one for the altimeter) so quite easy to feed withexternal information.
[08:16] <Hiena> The use of the paparazzi logs as source, will insert a maginal latency between the real and the ADB transmitted position, but also gives a good test facility to create cheap ghost planes.
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[08:20] <SpeedEvil> Ah - I see
[08:21] <SpeedEvil> Is there any strong auth on ADB?
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[08:28] <Hiena> Using one requires registration and licence from the Flight Controll Office. Each unit bound to the airplane, and when it's running it's shows up on the flight control and every planes radar.
[08:28] <Hiena> So, it's not a toy.
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> No, I was idly wondering at the potential for mischeif.
[08:29] <SpeedEvil> Many things are only secured by people with a clue not doing htem.
[09:03] Action: SpeedEvil suspects the datasheet on this bluetooth module may not be strictly correct.
[09:03] <SpeedEvil> 'guaranteed RF performance range -40C to 150C'
[09:11] <mattltm> Oh, thats toasty!
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[09:34] <Hiena> Ehem... Maybe they thought angle not temperature.
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> They seem to have taken it from the absolute max temperatures
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[09:42] <mixio> hi juxta
[09:43] <mixio> hows australia? :)
[09:44] <juxta> hey mixio
[09:44] <juxta> not too bad thanks :)
[09:44] <juxta> winter here though unfortunately
[09:45] <mixio> ahh yeah lol
[09:45] <mixio> i thought u r enjoying you summer beaches somewhere out there
[09:47] <mixio> have you planned a new hab?
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[09:49] <fsphil> morning all
[09:50] <jcoxon> morning fsphil
[09:50] <jcoxon> http://spacebits.eu/live/
[09:50] <fsphil> oooh oi
[09:51] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[09:51] <jcoxon> hey mattltm
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[09:52] <jcoxon> fsphil, mattltm, shall we start a new irc channel for a sea based discussions?
[09:52] <SamSilver_> is chase_car_N4XWC a DeLoran by any chance
[09:53] <mattltm> Sounds like a plan.
[09:53] <SamSilver_> I see it seems to be in a time warp
[09:53] <fsphil> #sealevel is still setup I think
[09:53] <jcoxon> join #sealevel
[09:53] <jcoxon> oops
[09:54] <jcoxon> i had forgotten what we called it
[09:54] <fsphil> I obey
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[09:55] <s-taylo> fsphil's out, he didn't say 'sudo says'..
[09:55] <mattltm> lol
[09:57] <fsphil> drat
[09:58] <fsphil> I've a security vulnerability, I should really get that patched
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[16:36] <DanielRichman> test
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> icle
[16:36] <DanielRichman> >.>
[16:38] <DanielRichman> anyway iirc zeusbot's logwriting is buffered so unless you <3 spam I guess we just have to wait a few minutes to see if it's now working
[16:38] <DanielRichman> it should be
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde here with us?
[16:40] <jcoxon> thanks DanielRichman
[16:40] <DanielRichman> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs/highaltitude.log.20110626 <-- working
[16:41] <jcoxon> hooray
[16:44] <DanielRichman> hey, in other news, http://habitat.habhub.org/testing-web/demo.html
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> To recap.
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Not strictly on-topic. Does anyone have thoughs on micro-dehumidifiers. I want to build a large solar panel out of plastic. This will have a water permeation of some 5 grams of water worst-case a day.
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Does anyone have any thoughts on a nice simple way to remove this - with maybe a teeny 10W peltier?
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> Wondering about options for cheap solar panels and flazing to remove water
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> s/fla/gla/
[16:49] <gb73d> http://www.reuk.co.uk/buy-9V-FROM-12V-SOURCE.htm
[16:49] <BrainDamage> why not using some highly hygroscopic crystal in a cartdrige you can swap?
[16:49] <gb73d> thats a goood shop speedy
[16:50] <griffonbot> @steamfire: Headin to @LVL1HackerSpace for a day of @LVL1WhiteStar balloon work!! #progress #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/85027047503704064]
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: I'm ideally wanting something that will work for >> a year.
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: And it's ~1ml/day
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Hygroscopic is an idea I suppose.
[16:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> Changing every 3 months or so would I suppose be possible.
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> Trying to work out how to make really, really cheap panels that will last a decade or more.
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> I know how to make them the right way - with encapsulant, or sealed glass units.
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[16:53] <Lunar_Lander> and then you'd need those little bags
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> Quite large bags to cope with several hundred ml of water
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> Wondering about using 8*4 sheets of twinwall glazing.
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> true
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> 300W or so per sheet.
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> Trying to keep the cost under 50/W
[16:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:56] <SpeedEvil> 50p
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[17:04] <mattltm> ping fsphil
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[17:05] <Lunar_Lander> hi mattltm
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[17:36] <fsphil> pong mattltm
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[18:36] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: yes
[18:36] <eroomde> am now
[18:36] <NigeyS> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed
[18:36] <NigeyS> \o/
[18:38] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Lunar_Lander eroomde NigeyS
[18:39] <NigeyS> hey Dan!
[18:40] <Dan-K2VOL> so nigey I heard the song Making Plans for Nigel and thought of you
[18:40] <NigeyS> haha you're so kind Dan! how are you ?
[18:40] <Dan-K2VOL> you're one of the only nigels I know, so regardless of the song subject, if it had Nigel in it, I"d think of you :-P
[18:40] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm doing well, down at the hackerspace, about to get some balloon work done I hope!
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[18:40] <Dan-K2VOL> how's your stuff coming
[18:40] <NigeyS> lol i still feel special ;)
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> have you heard the song?
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[18:41] <NigeyS> oh all good, im ready to launch the pico payload, and the main launch is just waiting for a ntx2 :D
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[18:41] <Dan-K2VOL> nice!
[18:41] <NigeyS> hey Kev !
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[18:50] <NigeyS> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/24/solar_misselling/
[18:50] <NigeyS> interesting
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> Indeed. Bloody annoying stupid scheme.
[18:55] Action: SpeedEvil just wants to net meter.
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> If I could do this I'd be putting in - slowly - a 10kW array.
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> Which would pay me back a bit over a K a year.
[18:57] <eroomde> what's new?
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> yeah - just going over the same ground.
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
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[19:04] <NigeyS> !top10
[19:04] <HAMBotty> Top10(words): 1. SpeedEvil(17269) 2. eroomde(16018) 3. fsphil(14704) 4. Dan-K2VOL(13264) 5. Randomskk(13070) 6. Laurenceb(12942) 7. Darkside(11105) 8. Lunar_Lander(11045) 9. cuddykid(9729) 10. Laurenceb_(7526)
[19:04] <NigeyS> not what i expected
[19:05] <eroomde> hat about lines spoken?
[19:05] <fsphil> man I talk too much nonsense
[19:05] <NigeyS> yups
[19:05] <eroomde> a verbosity ratio basically
[19:05] <NigeyS> oh sorry no, that's words
[19:05] <eroomde> indeed
[19:05] <NigeyS> let me find the stats link, that has a better breakdown
[19:06] <eroomde> also how about uninterrupted lines
[19:06] <eroomde> a monologue coefficient
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[19:07] <NigeyS> oops
[19:08] <NigeyS> need to fix that still
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[19:08] <NigeyS> http://www.nigey.co.uk:8033/highaltitude/top/total/graphs/
[19:08] <NigeyS> there ya go Ed
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> hey eroomde
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> nice to see you again
[19:11] <eroomde> yo
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I had two more ideas
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[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> the first was a timer for a pinhole camera
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> a timed shutter
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> do you think that is difficult?
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL NigeyS?
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde?
[19:23] <NigeyS> pinhole camera.. should be doable
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> not the cam as such
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> but the timed shutter
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[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> and the other idea would be a sampler triggered by timer or pressure
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS http://cgi.ebay.de/6V-DC-60RPM-Torque-Gear-Box-Motor-Brand-New-/120726707840?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1bdf5e80#ht_2302wt_1139
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> maybe with such a valve motor
[19:32] <NigeyS> oh, that might work
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> it would be something like that the motor must turn when the timer ticks down
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> that shouldn't be difficult either I think?
[19:33] <NigeyS> not sure, ive not played with motors in a long while to be perfectly honest
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> I found this one by chance
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> and it weighs only 9 g
[19:33] <NigeyS> nice and light :D
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS did you hear about the german flight?
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[19:47] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[19:48] <jcoxon> hey Lunar_Lander
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> the italian mountain rescue force is recovering the balloon
[19:57] <fsphil> sweet
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:23] <Randomskk> what! I wish we could wrangle that :P
[20:25] <jcoxon> not sure the east anglian mountain rescue exist
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL> Lunar Lander, I hope they were going out anyway, sounds like an expensive crew to recover a balloon
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:30] <Randomskk> haha admittedly there are not many mountains in east anglia
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[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> hey mixio
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[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL what are you up to?
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[21:11] <Laurenceb_> my pitot is too noisey :(
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> +-5m/s noise
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[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello mixio
[21:13] Action: SpeedEvil wonders why he thought of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izGwDsrQ1eQ on reading 'my pitot is too noisy'.
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> This is the fundamental noise of the pressure sensor?
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> seems to be coming in from the power rail or something - its not guassian
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> Umm - room noise?
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> looking at the board - https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl/raw/master/Hardware/CAM/Gerbers_final/board.png
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> Or a rotating thingymy?
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> its too big for thermal
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> I mean subsonic audio
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> i think it may be howe i tied the ref pin
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> I don't suppose you've got two?
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> pin one on U9, bottom
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> the pitot sensor +3v3 comes from a different point on the power traces
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> Hmm
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if theres ripple thats causing sensor vcc and ref to deviate
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> i guess i could solder on a jumper and see if there any change
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> What does the spectrum look like?
[21:17] <fsphil> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/ZX_Spectrum_Plus2.jpeg ?
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> well the data looks like more or less guassian with large deviations and spikes
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> and order of mangitude or so larger than the guassian spread
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> thats why i thought its power supply ripple
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> Bypass VCC more?
[21:19] Action: SpeedEvil thwaps fsphil.
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> nah
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> even 1uV vcc difference between sensor and ref will cause issues
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> i should have thought when doing the pcb
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> its the mostly likely cause i guess
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[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> wb m1x10
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> theres about 32mm of 8mil trace seperating sensor vcc and the adc ref pin
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> so about 0.15ohms
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> I suppose that's getting large
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> so only 0.37ma is enough to cause the observed noise
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> and theres all the mems sensors off the trace
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> well its not that simple but..
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> yeah - impedences of course, not resistances, and ...
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> part of sensor vcc goes round in a loop and stuff
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> should have gone for 4 layers :P
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> the really good way to do this would be vcc- choke - cap(s) - sensor vcc and ref
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> then seperate supply to the adc
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[21:37] <Randomskk> this is part of why I like sensors with onboard ADCs, or external ADCs
[21:37] <Randomskk> on the other hand the stm32's ADCs are so nice that you miss a lot
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> of course there seem to be some nice diff press sensors with inbuilt adc avaliable now yes
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[21:37] <Laurenceb_> i need about 16 bits for the pitot - ideally
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> and a temp sensor thats either inbuilt or very close - for calibration
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> MEAS seem to have introduced some suitable products recently, but ive no idea on prices
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/id8jy.jpg <- diff pressure isnt populated but thats the adc next to it
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> ill lift the sensor vcc pad and tie it to C48
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> still, it can easily detect me blowing on the tube XD
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[21:43] <kristianpaul> is there a library /tookit to process rinex or other kind of navigation data?
[21:43] <kristianpaul> in C
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> i think so.. sorry im not really an expert on this
[21:43] <kristianpaul> toolkit*
[21:44] <kristianpaul> rtklib is c++
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> dont know then sorry
[21:46] <kristianpaul> gpstk is c++ too afaik
[21:46] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb_: what r u using for your ublox?
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[21:48] <kristianpaul> to process navigation data i mean
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> its outputting serial into a stm32
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> on topic of pitot -actually the adc is diff input, so vcc bounce shouldnt effect things much
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[21:54] <Laurenceb_> odd... i dont see what the issue could be
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[23:03] <BudgetEngineer> hello?
[23:03] <Dan-K2VOL> hi
[23:04] <BudgetEngineer> I'm new to high altitude ballooning, and planning my first launch.
[23:04] <BudgetEngineer> could you answer some of my questions
[23:05] <hibby> probably some of them, maybe not all
[23:05] <BudgetEngineer> Okay. I have a nylon parachute, like ones made for model rockets from RocketChutes.
[23:06] <BudgetEngineer> I need to attach a loop to the apex to tie it to the balloon, and don't know anything about the proper strapping or sewing stitch to use. Have any suggestions or ideas?
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[23:11] <Randomskk> BudgetEngineer: don't worry about it too much. just tie some knots in some nylon cord, and read the UKHAS wiki's guide on attaching to the balloon itself
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[23:11] <Randomskk> it's only under like a few kilos of force
[23:12] <Randomskk> and mostly constant, too
[23:12] <BudgetEngineer> right. Thanks!
[23:12] <BudgetEngineer> I just don't want the drag from the descent to rip open a hole in the seam or something like that.
[23:13] <Randomskk> that would suck but I've never seen or heard of a HAB flight failing like that
[23:14] <Randomskk> the parachute is pre-deployed and starts out in almost no atmosphere, so my understanding is that there's not really much impulse "opening" force to jerk it too hard
[23:14] <Randomskk> I mean, there's a little at burst, but compared to opening a parachute in the lower atmosphere...
[23:15] <BudgetEngineer> I see what your saying. I just don't want to lose my first payload!
[23:15] <BudgetEngineer> Thanks again!
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[23:17] <Randomskk> more likely it'l get stuck in a tree or have a radio fail or something :P
[23:18] <BudgetEngineer> One more concern - how cold does it get up there? I've heard anywhere from -40C to -70C.
[23:18] <hibby> sounds about right
[23:18] <hibby> i used to have a graph, but I think the students took the website down
[23:20] <BudgetEngineer> I actually have more questions than I thought, I hope you don't mind. Has anybody used the SPOT satellite messenger as a means of tracking?
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> It conks out at ~18000 feet IIRC
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> Some have hacked it as a data transmitter
[23:20] <BudgetEngineer> Does it recover once it comes back down?
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> Don't remember.
[23:21] <BudgetEngineer> I mean, continue transmitting?
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> Don't remember who did the hacking - I'm mostly asleep
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/earthguide/diagrams/atmosphere/index.html
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> temp with height
[23:22] <BudgetEngineer> Right - it's like the middle of the night, correct?
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> 22 minutes past
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> It's actually coldest lower down.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> it warms up a bit when you get to ~30km
[23:23] <BudgetEngineer> that's good to know, thanks.
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[23:24] <BudgetEngineer> So, is 70cm and 2 meter radio the most common telemetry technique?
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Have a wander round the wiki - there is good info on there - though it's a bit scattered
[23:25] <hibby> BudgetEngineer: depends largely on country
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> We've had good results in the UK.
[23:27] <BudgetEngineer> I thought of using a conventional, off the shelf walkie-talkie (36 mile version) and sending gps coordinates in morse code or frequency-shift-keying (FSK)
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Getting ranges of ~500km on 433MHz and 10mW
[23:30] <Randomskk> BudgetEngineer: assuming you are in the USA, a typical approach is to use an amateur radio kit if you have a license (or get a license if you don't)
[23:30] <Randomskk> walkie talkies legal for use on the ground are nott sure to be legal for use in the air
[23:30] <Randomskk> and ideally you want to be able to use a sensitive receiver with a directional antenna
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[23:31] <BudgetEngineer> I thought of getting a license, but am more keen on using off the shelf products open to anybody.
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[23:32] <Randomskk> in which case you should investigate what frequencies and transmit powers are available on a license-free basis for use in the air
[23:32] <Randomskk> in the UK we can use the 434MHz band at up to 10mW transmit power
[23:32] <Randomskk> and there are modules readily available to transmit in it
[23:33] <BudgetEngineer> I did some hunting, two way radios are around 430Mhz.
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[23:49] <BudgetEngineer> One last question - how many batteries should i bring? Enough to last 5 hrs? 8 hrs?
[23:49] <Randomskk> eh
[23:49] <Randomskk> yes
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[23:49] <Randomskk> 5ish, 8ish, depends. the longer your radio lasts the better the odds of finding it, but it's playing with stats really
[23:50] <Randomskk> flight is likely to be about 2..5, 3 hours
[23:50] <Randomskk> 2.5*
[23:50] <BudgetEngineer> Sounds good.
[23:50] <Randomskk> depends on your balloon, payload mass and how much you fill the thing
[23:50] <Randomskk> see e.g. http://cuspaceflight.co.uk/calc and http://habhub.org/predict
[23:51] <Randomskk> have you been on the UKHAS wiki? it has all sorts of useful guides
[23:51] <BudgetEngineer> A bit, I just found it. The info is a little scattered, but it's useful.
[00:00] --- Mon Jun 27 2011