highaltitude.log.20110625

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[02:54] <griffonbot> @steamfire: @lvl1WhiteStar has a stowaway tonight! #botcuteness++ #UKHAS http://t.co/jkWM2v6 [http://twitter.com/steamfire/status/84454481936388096]
[03:18] <griffonbot> Received email: Brad Luyster "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Other materials to make a balloon out of?"
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[07:04] Nick change: MoALTz__ -> MoALTz
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[07:16] <mixio> awesome!!! I found a forgotten eurodance hit today! --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E43Vr2dlGc
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[07:39] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[07:41] <SamSilver> blaa
[07:41] <SamSilver> coffee has gone cold
[07:42] <SamSilver> afk
[07:43] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXEOESuiYcA&feature=player_detailpage#t=60s
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[07:45] <mixio> ive never heard KLF
[07:46] <mixio> someone's comment: my childhood..im almost crying!..its not like this anymoreÿ
[07:46] <mixio> platanaso1982 2 hours ago
[07:46] <mixio> :)
[07:48] <SpeedEvil> The track you posted was not at least well known inthe UK
[07:48] <SpeedEvil> Was it a big hit in greece?
[07:49] <mixio> I dont know. I was 5yo at 90s :)
[07:49] <SpeedEvil> I'm still boggling at the fact that it wasn't a couple of years ago.
[07:53] <mixio> maybe. I heard this song first time now..and im listening to eurodance from 15yo. Propably it wasnt very known. But Its nice.
[07:54] <SpeedEvil> I need proper speakers
[07:54] <SpeedEvil> The speakers in my laptop docking station are surprisingly good - but...
[07:58] <mixio> your laptop speakers wasnt made for 90s hits but for 2010 rihanna's and britney's :p
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[08:07] <Darkside> KLF?
[08:07] <Darkside> they did doctorin the tardis!
[08:09] <fsphil> hmm.. virtually no KLF stuff on spotify
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[08:11] <fsphil> mornin mattltm
[08:15] <mattltm> Morin :)
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[08:29] <mattltm> Much going on today?
[08:30] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/0pfON.jpg
[08:30] <Darkside> i'm just mucking around with my mininut boars
[08:30] <Darkside> boards*
[08:30] <Darkside> getting them into little containers
[08:30] <Darkside> going hiking tomorrow, might put one into my backpack and see how long it lasts
[08:30] <mattltm> cool :)
[08:31] <mattltm> that is tiny!
[08:31] <mattltm> whats on board?
[08:37] <Darkside> ?
[08:37] <Darkside> its th emininut
[08:37] <Darkside> the mininut*
[08:37] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/DSC_4087.jpg
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[08:38] <mattltm> Nice. Not seen that before.
[08:39] <fsphil> proper job
[08:43] <fsphil> I'll be starting my board tonight, so expect a torrent of eagle cad newbieness :)
[08:43] <mattltm> lol
[08:46] <fsphil> Darkside, I see the vias ( I think that's what they are ) are not soldered -- do they need to be?
[08:46] <mixio> ahh I see some SMD pcbs
[08:47] <fsphil> smd is cool
[08:47] <mixio> yes tiny things
[08:47] <mixio> he even got the bmp085 lol
[08:47] <mixio> i have it on breakout out
[08:48] <mixio> but that aint modular :(
[08:52] <mixio> i change my code to send telemetry every 32s. take pic every 1.5min. enter powersave mode between telemetry beacons.
[08:52] <mixio> I hope that will save power compared to my ex scenario
[08:53] <fsphil> should do - can be tested easily enough
[08:53] <mixio> my leds start blinking without my command when mcu is waking up
[08:54] <fsphil> bootloader?
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[08:56] <m1x10> they cut the power !!!
[08:56] <m1x10> and the water too!
[08:56] <m1x10> omg stupid crisis
[08:56] <m1x10> im on laptop battery and with mobile internet
[08:56] <m1x10> haha
[08:57] <fsphil> lol
[08:57] <fsphil> you need some solar panels :)
[08:57] <m1x10> i need to go in another country
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[08:58] <m1x10> but today i head to my personal paradise beach. I will stay 2 days there. I might meet some european people there. Thats my launch place there
[08:58] <m1x10> mv 'there' /dev/null
[08:59] <m1x10> i will drink sea water
[08:59] <m1x10> and spend the camping's power
[09:01] <m1x10> can someone explain why some leds are on during exit from powersave mode?
[09:01] <fsphil> maybe the bootloader is being activated?
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[09:05] <mixio> i just know for sure that mcu is in deep sleep.
[09:05] <mixio> watchdog timer rises an interrupt every 8sec
[09:06] <mixio> which wakes up the mcu
[09:07] <mixio> sleep();sleep();sleep();send beacon();
[09:07] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[09:07] <mixio> takepic();
[09:07] <mixio> sleep() lasts 8 sec
[09:08] <mixio> bah, I wanted 32sec between beacons
[09:08] <mixio> thats 24sec
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[09:10] <RocketBoy> Anyone know why the position data on the NOVA19 flight went crazy on descent a few days back? - the altitude data looks OK (once you take out all the zeros)
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[09:20] <mixio> now its a good oppurtunity to see how much my laptop can last with just a usb mouse and a usb internet stick
[09:21] <[STAR]Atanyi|HCs> RocketBoy dodgy code
[09:21] <RocketBoy> I read the logs - tee he -looks like it was meridian handling
[09:22] <[STAR]Atanyi|HCs> was removing 0's like 0.001 became 0.1
[09:22] <RocketBoy> ah right
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[09:22] <[STAR]Atanyi|HCs> when it crossed the ddatum line again it was fine
[09:22] <[STAR]Atanyi|HCs> eh
[09:22] Nick change: [STAR]Atanyi|HCs -> Upu
[09:22] <RocketBoy> I was most interested in the alt data anyways
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[09:22] <Upu> sorry
[09:23] <Upu> silly IRC
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[09:26] <RocketBoy> thanks Upu - I think the slowing down of ascent rate near burst is just a big balloon thing - I think we had it on previous 3000g flights to that altitude.
[09:27] <Upu> yeah it was crawling and almost floating at the end
[09:27] <RocketBoy> Anyone know how to get at any historic flight data?
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[09:28] <RocketBoy> (on the tracker)
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[09:33] <jcoxon> morning
[09:33] <jcoxon> spacenear.us flights today
[09:34] <jcoxon> WB8ELK at 1.00CDT
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[09:34] <jcoxon> 144.34Mhz
[09:36] <jcoxon> ping RocketBoy
[09:36] <RocketBoy> yo
[09:36] <jcoxon> you could get the telem from view.php
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[09:37] <jcoxon> e.g. http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/poll.php?callsign=weasel&lastid=0&format=HTML
[09:38] <RocketBoy> what all the way back - I was thinking of robs last high flight
[09:38] <jcoxon> oh right
[09:38] <jcoxon> you'd need to ask him
[09:38] <jcoxon> he has all the data
[09:38] <jcoxon> on his mysql database
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[09:41] <RocketBoy> Ah OK - I'll do just that - he will be interested in the slowing of ascent rate thing - if he isn't too miffed about he record being broken ;-)
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[09:41] <fsphil> He held it for a long time, I'm sure he's glad someone finally did :)
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[09:48] <jcoxon> any complaints if i clear the tracker?
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[09:51] <RocketBoy> not from me
[09:51] <jcoxon> done
[09:51] <jcoxon> did people know that if you do this: http://spacenear.us/tracker/?vehicle=wb8elk
[09:51] <jcoxon> it only displays one track
[09:52] <RocketBoy> cool
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[09:52] <jcoxon> fsphil, added GSM
[09:52] <jcoxon> though didn't have time to add power control
[09:53] <jcoxon> so the battery ran out after about 12hrs
[09:53] <jcoxon> :-p
[09:53] <fsphil> lol
[09:53] <Upu> I spoke to Rob yesterday his comment on the record breaking was "about bloody time"
[09:53] <fsphil> that with solar power? :)
[09:53] <cuddykid> still haven't got my permission :( despite David saying he would try and get it sorted yesterday
[09:53] <jcoxon> fsphil, just off the 1000mAh cell
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[09:53] <jcoxon> so the gps and atmega was doing sleeping
[09:54] <fsphil> that's actually pretty excellent
[09:54] <Upu> no NOTAM for Elvington
[09:54] <jcoxon> the gm862 was on continously
[09:54] <Upu> RocketBoy : [10:53] <Upu> I spoke to Rob yesterday his comment on the record breaking was "about bloody time"
[09:54] <RocketBoy> he he
[09:54] <fsphil> I'd say it uses up a fair chunk of power just idling, chatting to the gsm network
[09:54] <jcoxon> fsphil, yeah
[09:55] <jcoxon> just needed to add a transistor to control the power switch
[09:55] <jcoxon> then i susepct that it'll last a long long time
[09:55] <jcoxon> if its only turning on for a minute of so every hour
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[09:56] <fsphil> is that gsm module one of the ones that draw a lot of power when first switched on?
[09:56] <jcoxon> up to 2A
[09:56] <jcoxon> but only when sending i think
[09:56] <fsphil> ooch
[09:56] <fsphil> you'll need a good transistor
[09:56] <jcoxon> hence why you need lipos
[09:56] <jcoxon> oh
[09:56] <jcoxon> i'm controlling hte power on switch
[09:56] <jcoxon> rather than the power
[09:57] <fsphil> aaah yes - remember now
[09:57] <fsphil> simples
[09:57] <jcoxon> just need to pull the switch low for 1 second
[09:57] <cuddykid> i've got 2 of the solar botics larger pannels (33mm x 67mm i think) on the way
[09:58] <jcoxon> fsphil, we should define a format for our telem
[09:58] <jcoxon> so that we can start implementing a map system
[09:58] <jcoxon> or shoehorn it into spacenear.us :-p
[09:59] <fsphil> how about keeping it similar to what we have already? callsign, coords, data, checksum?
[09:59] <fsphil> no need for altitude, though it could be interesting data :)
[09:59] <jcoxon> i was going to keep altitude
[09:59] <cuddykid> jcoxon, what happened to the live predictor on spacenear tracker? That was great back in the day!
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[10:00] <jcoxon> cuddykid, it requires someone to download the gfs data in advance
[10:00] <jcoxon> so someone with access to the server has to be on the ball
[10:00] <cuddykid> oh right
[10:00] <cuddykid> haha
[10:00] <jcoxon> fsphil, well keep altitude in case someone nicks it
[10:01] <Upu> jcoxon can't it be scripted so you can have an on/off button on it ?
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: I suppose thepredictor does not runon the same box?
[10:01] <Upu> SpeedEvil no
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> jcoxon: So they can share data?
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> k
[10:01] <jcoxon> Upu, i'm sure it could
[10:01] <fsphil> The predictor is written in C isn't it?
[10:02] <jcoxon> but thats not how natrium42 rolls
[10:02] <Upu> fair enough
[10:02] <jcoxon> as in he does rapid implementation
[10:02] <jcoxon> just enough to work :-)
[10:02] <Upu> lol
[10:03] <cuddykid> has nova19 been retrieved yet?
[10:03] <jcoxon> bbl
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[10:03] <fsphil> don't think so
[10:04] <Upu> fsphil you getting yours back today ?
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[10:05] <fsphil> nobody's free until next weekend
[10:05] <Darkside> hmm, i wonder at what point this lithium ion battery will conk out
[10:05] <fsphil> it's forecast to be a fairly dry week so that might work out better, the field shouldn't be as mucky
[10:06] <Darkside> i've got a 7.4v camera battery hooked up to my payload
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[10:07] <Darkside> its logging data anyway, so i'll be able to get a discharge curve
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[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello!
[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> the german balloon at Friedrichshafen is up!
[10:19] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/stream/index.php?frm=stream
[10:20] <Lunar_Lander> prediction by me from yesterday evening: http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5007/predictionfriedrichshaf.png
[10:20] <Lunar_Lander> and the actual trajectory http://p56.de/stream/index.php?page=map
[10:20] <Lunar_Lander> as you can see, it really goes South-East
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[10:23] <fsphil> looks like it's following the prediction
[10:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[10:23] <Lunar_Lander> and do you know the landing spot?
[10:23] <Lunar_Lander> a 2600 m high mountain in Italy
[10:23] <fsphil> they're going to beat my record of highest landing spot ;-)
[10:23] <Lunar_Lander> ;) yeah
[10:23] <fsphil> they knew about the landing spot before they launched?
[10:24] <fsphil> that's mad!
[10:24] <Lunar_Lander> I sent them the prediction yesterday
[10:24] <Lunar_Lander> I used the ascent speed from the June 5 start
[10:24] <Lunar_Lander> and the burst altitude from that
[10:25] <fsphil> I wish more people would use spacenear.us :)
[10:25] <Lunar_Lander> but it seems to have only half the speed than on June 5
[10:25] <Lunar_Lander> June 5 climbed at 4.1 m/s
[10:25] <Lunar_Lander> this one only at 2.1 m/s
[10:25] <fsphil> ooch
[10:25] <fsphil> it might miss the mountains
[10:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
[10:25] <Lunar_Lander> maybe they changed their mind when seeing the e-mail
[10:26] <fsphil> I don't think I would have risked it -- it could burst early
[10:26] <fsphil> still - if they've got a camera on there it'll get some fantastic photos
[10:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[10:27] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know from the top of my head if there is a cam this time
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[10:27] <Lunar_Lander> but last year, the ballon flew over Switzerland
[10:27] <Lunar_Lander> more to the SW
[10:27] <Lunar_Lander> and a Polish team sent along cameras
[10:28] <Lunar_Lander> 9218 m @ T+67 minutes
[10:28] <Lunar_Lander> 2.2 m/s
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[10:29] <Lunar_Lander> hi GW8RAK
[10:29] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander, How are things?
[10:29] <Lunar_Lander> I'm fine thanks, and you?
[10:30] <GW8RAK> Busy getting ready for 2 weeks in the sun. It's holiday time.
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> we're watching the launch in germany
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/stream/index.php?page=map
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/stream/index.php?page=livegraphs
[10:30] <GW8RAK> I don't know what Germany is like, but it's cold wet and windy here today.
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/stream/index.php?frm=stream
[10:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah same here
[10:31] <Lunar_Lander> compare the live map with that prediction from yesterday evening http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5007/predictionfriedrichshaf.png
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[10:32] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil the photos from 2010 http://en.copernicus-project.org/galeria,104,european_balloon_project_-_fly5_-_part_1/1
[10:32] <GW8RAK> A few weeks ago, we were talking about radioactive sources to measure ionisable molecules in the upper atmosphere?
[10:33] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[10:33] <Lunar_Lander> I remember that
[10:33] <GW8RAK> I was wondering if the low oxygen concentration would prevent a heated wire burning out and use an electrically heater wire to generate an electron stream
[10:34] <Lunar_Lander> that could be interesting
[10:34] <Lunar_Lander> I have to think about that
[10:34] <GW8RAK> May require too much power, but it would only have to work for a few tens of minutes at altitude
[10:34] <Lunar_Lander> true
[10:35] <Lunar_Lander> btw fsphil check the live map, it did not make the turn yet
[10:35] <Lunar_Lander> it should hit the Lombardia grounds
[10:35] <fsphil> the u-turn will probably happen later because of the slow ascent rate
[10:36] <Lunar_Lander> true
[10:36] <Lunar_Lander> but at least it'll reach Italy :)
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[10:38] <fsphil> that part is pretty definite :)
[10:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[10:38] <Lunar_Lander> APRS at http://aprs.fi/?call=dl0ttm-11&mt=m&z=11&timerange=21600
[10:39] <Lunar_Lander> maybe landing at Trento?
[10:39] <Lunar_Lander> or the Verona area
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[10:41] <SpeedEvil> GW8RAK: http://www.goodfellow.com/catalogue/GFCat4I.php?ewd_token=5m7y8t8aH27pIYu4rILILCfMqEWm1t&n=WGSFBp3BxahD0LzgAg8JBlxqmpMkcl&ewd_urlNo=GFCat411&Catite=RE005105&CatSearNum=4
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> Stupid price
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.goodfellow.com/catalogue/GFCat4I.php?ewd_token=5m7y8t8aH27pIYu4rILILCfMqEWm1t&n=WGSFBp3BxahD0LzgAg8JBlxqmpMkcl&ewd_urlNo=GFCat411&Catite=RE007920&CatSearNum=4 compared to
[10:42] <GW8RAK> That'll do nicely. I'll take 10m
[10:42] <GW8RAK> I was thinking of a rhenium quarter wave
[10:43] <Darkside> why rhenium?
[10:43] <Darkside> and what frequency?
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[10:44] <GW8RAK> Making a joke at the expense
[10:44] <Darkside> ahh
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Rhenium/iridium is great for hot filliments in air
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[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Rh/Ir is use in rocket engines - uncooled.
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> It's an awesome material.
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Just a Leeetle spendy.
[10:45] <GW8RAK> I seem to remember that some of the other product groups used it when I worked at Philips.
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> You have a teeny rocket engine, glowing bright white.
[10:46] <GW8RAK> In fact, I've just remembered that I specified it for a job.
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> Simplifies construction enormously as you don't need to actually cool it.
[10:46] <GW8RAK> Memroy isn't what it was.
[10:46] <GW8RAK> Or even my memory
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[10:50] <SpeedEvil> Spolling is the first thing to go.
[10:51] <GW8RAK> PC's have spell checkers to find the pistakes
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[11:07] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
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[11:30] <Darkside> at what height is it meant to turn around?
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[11:32] <fsphil> it's in no rush
[11:33] <Darkside> heh
[11:34] <Darkside> are they planning on recovering it?
[11:34] <Darkside> they're gonna have to cross over a few countries to do so :P
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[11:37] <fsphil> it's making me feel better about hadie:2 at least
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[11:42] <Darkside> looks like it's turning
[11:43] <Darkside> its slowed anyway
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[11:47] <fsphil> yea, nice turn now
[11:47] <fsphil> doubtful if it'll clear those mountains
[11:48] <mattltm> Where are you watching it?
[11:48] <fsphil> http://aprs.fi/?call=dl0ttm-11&mt=m&z=11&timerange=21600
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[11:52] <mattltm> ta :)
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[11:57] <RocketBoy> 2.5m/sec ascent rate
[11:57] <Darkside> nice and calm up there
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[12:42] <Darkside> oh dear
[12:42] <Darkside> looks like it's gonna land in mountains
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[12:49] <fsphil-laptop> has it burst?
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[12:51] <fsphil> eek
[12:56] <Darkside> i somehow doubt they'll be getting that payload back
[12:56] <fsphil-laptop> I wonder why they tried that
[12:57] <Darkside> eek, not much data coming back in via aprs
[12:57] <Darkside> what was the other link?
[12:59] <Darkside> nvm got it
[13:01] <Darkside> my bet is that it's going to hit the side of a mountain
[13:03] <fsphil> not only that, but land in a tree
[13:03] <Darkside> lol
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[13:03] <Upu> just make a "quick release" for the parachuting using a Alpine Butter fly knot..
[13:03] <Darkside> well, its at 3km altitude, and many of the mountains it's heading for are 2km altitude
[13:04] <Darkside> on the plus site, the mountains might be so high that they might be able receive a signal once it's landed
[13:04] <fsphil> that's true
[13:05] <Darkside> they could go for a big hike to retreive it
[13:05] <Darkside> heh
[13:06] <Darkside> 2.7km altitude...
[13:06] <Darkside> its goign to go into that valley and they'll loose aprs signal
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=093d67af4486cd8dc63262b8a4561c88caa4b435
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Is ballpark
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> With luck - maybe not _too_ far from roads
[13:08] <Darkside> still, thats a shit flight path
[13:08] <Darkside> it just goes... away
[13:08] <Darkside> i hope they didn't plan on getting it back
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> OTOH,
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> It's probably a really nice drive through picturesque mountains, followed by a nice hike.
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[13:09] <Darkside> 1.8km..
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> yeah - 16MPH and 3m/s down - it's not going far
[13:09] <Darkside> its now lower than the next line of hills
[13:09] <Darkside> mountains*
[13:09] <Darkside> and it appears to be tending north
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Where are you getting the altitude?
[13:09] <Darkside> APRS
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Of the mountains
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> Google earth?
[13:10] <Darkside> map -> terrain
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that doesn't actually give height does it?
[13:10] <Darkside> it does
[13:10] <Darkside> if you zoom in
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> oh
[13:10] Action: SpeedEvil notes the ribbon of water.
[13:10] <Darkside> well, it only has about 800m to go..
[13:11] <Darkside> i wonder if any more APRS reports will get through
[13:11] <Darkside> its dropping below the level of the mountains between the balloon ahte nearby APRS node
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you get some diffraction at 144
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> but not much
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> And it can't be enormously high powered.
[13:11] <Darkside> hmm, the node is at 3.2km
[13:12] <Darkside> they might get lucky
[13:12] <Darkside> but its heading down into a valley
[13:12] <Darkside> if they want it back, they need someone in that valley, now
[13:12] <RocketBoy> my estimate of the sea level descent rate is 4.3m/sec - its about 1/2 of what it is at 10Km
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> yeah - preduictor will be useless in terrain
[13:14] <RocketBoy> need to track back over the path in google earth until you hit grounf level
[13:15] <Darkside> looks like no more data..
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> We need a UKHAS satellite in GEO over europe with a big dish for 433 and APRS.
[13:16] <RocketBoy> which puts it here 46.225703, 11.267842
[13:16] <Darkside> SpeedEvil: heh, that'd be a cool diea actually
[13:16] <Darkside> make the APRS beacon switch to a sat APRS freq when it lands
[13:17] <Darkside> so it could bouncs off arissat or whatnot
[13:17] <Darkside> or maybe go into a morse code mode thats within the bandwidth of the funcube/arissats transponder
[13:17] <Darkside> so when the sat passes overhead, you might just be able to make out the morse position
[13:18] <fsphil> we need a license free version of APRS :) only better
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[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> Hello! fsphil are you still there?
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> and GW8RAK
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> sorry the internet went down here
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> the balloon seems to have landed near Trento
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> as I said
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> and it made a small U-Turn
[13:21] <fsphil> floating about Lunar_Lander :)
[13:21] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: my guess was 46.225703, 11.267842 altitude 1244m
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[13:22] <Lunar_Lander> 28045 m is the highest altitude on the APRS
[13:23] <fsphil> was it a small balloon?
[13:23] <fsphil> or heavy payload?
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> the had a triple payload
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> but I don't know the mass
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[13:23] <Lunar_Lander> *they
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/stream/index.php?page=livegraphs
[13:24] <Lunar_Lander> there is an outage
[13:25] <Lunar_Lander> this is the prime payload http://p56.de/gallery/picture.php?id=1307560559&picture=8
[13:25] <Lunar_Lander> http://p56.de/gallery/picture.php?id=1307560559&picture=15
[13:25] <Lunar_Lander> secondary http://p56.de/gallery/picture.php?id=1307560559&picture=6
[13:25] <Lunar_Lander> tertiary http://p56.de/gallery/picture.php?id=1307560559&picture=10
[13:26] <Darkside> thats a lot of debris
[13:26] <Darkside> heh, li-pos
[13:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:26] <Lunar_Lander> the tertiary was in and below the balloon
[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> to measure the pressure inside
[13:27] <Darkside> mm
[13:27] <Darkside> still, that is a lot of payload that they're probably not going to get back
[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> the secondary has a peltier energy harvesting system
[13:27] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if there are trees in those valleys.
[13:28] <Darkside> and i see someone has hacked up a vaisala radiosonde
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> they did not say anything about it after the June 5 launch
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah they had that in the 2010 ascent too
[13:28] <Darkside> looks like an older vaidala sonde
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil the sat photos show it full of trees
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Ah - yes
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah RS80 or so
[13:28] <Darkside> different radio module too
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> but I think they had an S92
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Beeeg trees.
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> *RS92
[13:29] <Darkside> i'm thinking of mounting a mininut in a RS92 case
[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> Darkside I actually sent them the prediction from yesterday
[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> with the data from June 5
[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> it would have been a landing on a 2600 m mountain
[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> but this time they had only 2.2 m/s rate instead of 4.1 m/s
[13:30] <Upu> fsphil what was the length of your cord from payload to chute, and from chute to balloon ?
[13:30] <Darkside> so the secondary looks like a HF payload
[13:30] <Darkside> i think i see a balun on the left
[13:30] <fsphil> Upu, roughtly 15 metres, chute was 1/3 of the way down from the balloon
[13:30] <Upu> so5 meters / 10 meters ?
[13:30] <Darkside> and it looks like some geiger gounters in the primary
[13:31] <Darkside> counters*
[13:31] <fsphil> Upu, yea, 5 metres between the balloon and the chute
[13:31] <Lunar_Lander> yeah true
[13:31] <Upu> ok thx
[13:31] <Lunar_Lander> the secondary has a "20 m CW transmitter"
[13:31] <fsphil> aah I should have listened out for that
[13:31] <fsphil> I usually receive good signals from that direction on 20m
[13:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:33] <Darkside> still, that is a *very* big payload
[13:33] <Darkside> heyy, dual-band cross-dipole
[13:33] <Darkside> noice
[13:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:33] <Lunar_Lander> the X thing under the main box?
[13:33] <Darkside> i want to see what they did for the matching
[13:33] <Darkside> yep
[13:34] <Darkside> 70cm matching wouldn''t be so bad, only 15cm or so of RG174 is doable
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander> I am actually in good contact with them
[13:34] <Darkside> but for 2m it gets a bit more unweildt
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[13:34] <Lunar_Lander> I could ask them your questions
[13:34] <Darkside> unweildy*
[13:34] <Darkside> that'd be cool
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander> so you want to have their frequencies?
[13:34] <Darkside> jut wondering on the antenna, is it a circularly polarised system, and if so, how they did it
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:34] <Lunar_Lander> OK, I'll note that
[13:35] <Darkside> i.e. is it just a 1/4 wave matching between the dipoles
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[13:35] <Lunar_Lander> I'll just get a piece of paper :)
[13:36] <Lunar_Lander> got that
[13:37] <Darkside> its usually a 1/4 wave of coax between the two dipoles - that phase-shifts the signal to the second dipole by 90 degrees, and generates the circular polarisation
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[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi mixio
[13:37] <mixio> oh hi luna
[13:38] <mixio> how is there?
[13:38] <Lunar_Lander> fine and you?
[13:38] <Darkside> aha, the li-ion in my test trasmitter is on its way out
[13:38] <mixio> good, im on vocation :)
[13:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[13:39] <Darkside> battery voltage dropped 0.5v in the last 5 minutes
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> there was a german balloon flight mixio
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> http://aprs.fi/?call=dl0ttm-11&mt=m&z=11&timerange=21600
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[13:39] <mixio> and there are many german people here :p
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[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> and south africans too
[13:40] <Darkside> thats a point, where is their comms channel?
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> hi SamSilver_
[13:40] <Darkside> comms chat*
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> comms chat?
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[13:40] <mixio> Lunar_Lander what radio was yours?
[13:40] <Darkside> like, chat between receivers, etc
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[13:40] <Darkside> do they have an IRC channel
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> mixio I have non yet
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> no sorry
[13:41] <mixio> from radiometrix
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> they do all the team talk via e-mail
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> they are one radio club also
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> mixio NTX2
[13:41] <SamSilver_> Lunar_Lander: Hi there was afk
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> np
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> did you see the german flight?
[13:41] <mixio> yes, which one you was planning to buyt
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> NTX2 of Radiometrix
[13:42] <mixio> NTX2 transmits 10mw at 3v3?
[13:42] <SamSilver_> I saw some of the GDR flight but a bug got me
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[13:42] <Darkside> mixio: feed it with your battery supply
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> mixio 10 mW yes
[13:42] <Darkside> it has an internal regulator
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> I'll find out the range
[13:42] <Darkside> better to have the heat dissipate inside the NTX2 than in your voltage regulator
[13:43] <Darkside> 3v to 15v
[13:43] <Darkside> thereabouts
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah thansk
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> *thanks
[13:43] <mixio> i wonder if 10mw are enough ?
[13:43] <Darkside> in all future transmitters i'm tuing the enable pin high, so if the battery drops low enough for the micro to shut down, the transmitter should still have another hour or so of carrier transmit time
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> well
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> it worked in england all the time
[13:43] <Darkside> that extra hour could be used to DF the payload in an emergency
[13:43] <SamSilver_> I am more of a 5 watts boy
[13:44] <mixio> cause if they are i need to make a new pcb which supports radio on 3v3
[13:44] <Darkside> SamSilver_: overpowered :P
[13:44] <Lunar_Lander> I read that a cubesat with 1 W is OK
[13:44] <Darkside> mixio: you need to feed the enable pin 3.3v logic levels
[13:44] <SamSilver_> Darkside: yes but
[13:44] <Darkside> and the TXd pin you just feed raw voltages, you could adjust your voltage divider to suit whatever logic level you are using
[13:44] <mixio> Darkside: dont worry, i know how to use them
[13:45] <Darkside> SamSilver_: you are using APRS only right?
[13:45] <SamSilver_> nope 160mw 434MHz
[13:45] <SamSilver_> beacon
[13:46] <Darkside> transmitting location?
[13:46] <SamSilver_> digi nodes are at the least 400 / 450km away
[13:46] <Darkside> eek
[13:46] <Darkside> use your own receiver
[13:46] <SamSilver_> nope just cw
[13:46] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: http://slaros.blogspot.com/2011/06/main-flight-board-and-gsm-tracker.html
[13:46] <Lunar_Lander> one sec
[13:46] <SamSilver_> got own but need / want backup
[13:47] <Darkside> never rely on anyone elses receivers if you can help it
[13:47] <Darkside> always have your own receiver, and your own redundant systems
[13:47] <Darkside> make your beacon broadcast lat/long
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[13:47] <SamSilver_> Darkside: lol I am more thinking along the lines of not trusting my own LOL
[13:47] <Darkside> SamSilver_: testing will prove that it works
[13:47] <Darkside> aha, theres goes the li-ion
[13:47] <Darkside> it cuts off at 5v
[13:48] <Darkside> battery just cut out ;-)
[13:48] <Darkside> now to see how much life i got out of it
[13:48] <Darkside> it was at least 3 horus
[13:48] <Lunar_Lander> mixio cool!
[13:48] <Lunar_Lander> what is the long antenna on the coax plug on the main board?
[13:48] <SamSilver_> I have to leave the keyboard and go and make barbeque with mates!
[13:48] <SamSilver_> afk
[13:49] <Lunar_Lander> GPS I assume
[13:49] <SamSilver_> bl
[13:49] <Lunar_Lander> or TX1H
[13:50] <Darkside> ok, 4 hours out of a 760mAh battery...
[13:50] <Darkside> thats about right
[13:50] <Darkside> i'm actually drawing 150mA, but i bet the battery can't hold a full charge
[13:51] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: RH789
[13:51] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:51] <Lunar_Lander> for the GPS?
[13:52] <mixio> TX1H runs from 3.8v to 12v. But my board runs at 3v3. So i had to power it straight from batteries. But now I have discovered TX1 which just runs at 3v3 outputing 10mw.
[13:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:52] <mixio> RH789 isthe antenna
[13:52] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[13:54] <mixio> Now im thinking of making a new pcb with those changes. It will make it simpler and more power efficient. But needs money.
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:55] <mixio> I think i will need a sponsor
[13:56] <Zuph> If you find one, tell him we need one too :-p
[13:56] <mixio> lol
[13:57] <mixio> fucking money
[13:57] <mixio> i hate them
[13:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[13:59] <mixio> NTX2 ?
[14:00] <Lunar_Lander> what do you mean?
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[14:07] <mixio> nothing
[14:07] <mixio> i just see its specs
[14:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[14:07] <mixio> it also needs a resistor on the TX line
[14:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:07] <mixio> to bring voltage down to 3
[14:07] <mixio> so if i make a new design i will prototype a place for a resistor
[14:08] <mixio> so both radios are supported
[14:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:09] <Darkside> what do you mean both radios
[14:09] <Darkside> the NTX2 and TX1H?
[14:09] <mixio> yes and possible TX1
[14:09] <Darkside> hmm
[14:09] <Darkside> what logic levels are you using?
[14:10] <Darkside> i know the NTX2 and TX1H are pin-compatible
[14:10] <Darkside> is the TX1 different
[14:11] <mixio> now this is what im looking for
[14:11] <Darkside> nope its exactly the same
[14:11] <Darkside> apart from slightly different behaviour on the Enable pin
[14:12] <Darkside> but the same applies - logic high for enable, logic low for disable
[14:12] <Darkside> if you use 3.3v logic, just run a GPIO straight to the enable pin, and tie high or low depending on what you want
[14:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> Oh - they got a point on the ground - neat
[14:13] <Darkside> this is how i designed the Mininut, it works fine with either the TX1H, NTX2, and i guess the TX1 too
[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[14:13] <Darkside> the only change i need to make in the next revision is to wire the input voltage to the battery, not the regulator
[14:15] <mixio> ahh Darkside
[14:15] <mixio> im just doing the opposite now
[14:15] <Darkside> oh?
[14:15] <mixio> I need to make a new pcb where i will wire input voltage to regulator rather than battey
[14:15] <Darkside> i just wanted to take the load off my 3.3v regulator
[14:15] <mixio> :)
[14:16] <Darkside> as all the modules can handle higher input voltages
[14:16] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[14:16] <mixio> Darkside: it would bemore power effiecient
[14:16] <Darkside> meh
[14:16] <Darkside> my TX1H board runs for 21 hours from 4 energizer lithium AAs
[14:16] <Darkside> thats enough for me...
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - looking at the map - the balloon is seemingly 20m in the air
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> If the contours can be believed
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> (but they are going to be very dodgy)
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> OTOH - the trees in the area do look ~20m
[14:20] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:20] <Lunar_Lander> not so good
[14:21] <mixio> Darkside: i run my pcb from 3AA :)
[14:21] <Darkside> mixio: LDO regulator i guess? :P
[14:21] <mixio> :p
[14:21] <mixio> LD111
[14:21] <Darkside> im using a LM1117, drops out at about 4.3v
[14:22] <mixio> im using the common LDO from sparkfun
[14:22] <Darkside> so using 3xAAs is a bit dangerour
[14:22] <Darkside> which one is it?
[14:22] <Darkside> it might be pin-compatible with what i'm using
[14:24] <Darkside> heh, sparkfun sell the LD1117V3.3
[14:24] <Darkside> i'm just using the SMD version - LD1117DT-3.3 (not LM as i said earlier)
[14:24] <Darkside> so, depending on current draw, it will drop out around 4.3v or so :-)
[14:27] <mixio> yeah
[14:27] <Darkside> i'd just watch what happens to your battery voltage as you run your board
[14:28] <Darkside> it will start out around 4.8v or so, drop to 4.5v for a while, then slowly drop
[14:28] <Darkside> i'm not sure if it will get to 4.3-4.4v before it starts the final death-plunge
[14:29] <Darkside> mixio: http://i.imgur.com/4S6GC.png
[14:29] <Darkside> theres my 4x AA runtime test
[14:29] <Darkside> showing how the battery voltge dropped over time
[14:30] <Darkside> now, scale that to 4.5v
[14:30] <Darkside> it will probably hit the regulator cutoff maybe 10 hours in
[14:31] <Darkside> with another AA, you could give it another 10 hours of transmit time, and 10 more hours in which you can recover the payload
[14:31] <Darkside> or at least receive the data to get the payloads position
[14:31] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: how much money you give me to send you the new pcb ? :P
[14:31] <mixio> 5pieces :)
[14:33] <Lunar_Lander> good question
[14:33] <Darkside> mixio: be aware of your dropout voltage :-)
[14:33] <Darkside> very aware
[14:33] <Lunar_Lander> how expensive are they?
[14:34] <mixio> Darkside: i havent made any tests but i remember when batteries where giving about 4V regulator was outputting 2.9V and whole system was working.
[14:34] <Darkside> mmm
[14:34] <mixio> AVRs stop working below 3.7v
[14:35] <Darkside> eh?
[14:35] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: 2.7v sorry
[14:35] <Darkside> yeah
[14:35] <mixio> Lunar_Lander
[14:35] <Darkside> my regulator as outputting around that, and the atmega wasn't starting
[14:35] <mixio> yes its it limit
[14:35] <Darkside> before it stopped working, the atmega would boot, start writing to the SD, and then teh voltage would drop and cause it to reset
[14:35] <mixio> at 2.8v is almost diying
[14:35] <Darkside> that happened 5 times before it stopped running at all
[14:35] <Darkside> and at that point the GPS didn't work anyway
[14:36] <Darkside> so it was useless
[14:36] <mixio> yes
[14:36] <mixio> mine was working it just could not lock
[14:36] <Darkside> what kin of runtime were you getting up to that point?
[14:37] <mixio> what do u mean?
[14:37] <Darkside> how long did it last before the regulator stopped working
[14:37] <mixio> (sorry some eu sexy females passed by)
[14:37] <mixio> think come from czech republic :)
[14:37] <Darkside> i got 21 hours before mine stopped working
[14:37] <mixio> aaa
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[14:37] <mixio> i tried only alkalines
[14:38] <Darkside> right in line with what i expected
[14:38] <Darkside> ahh
[14:38] <mixio> but my board got many stuff on it
[14:38] <Darkside> well, alkalines will steadily drop in voltage i think
[14:38] <mixio> what does your board include?
[14:38] <Darkside> lithiums kind of plateu cor a while
[14:38] <Darkside> GPS, TX1H, atmega, pressure sensor, temp sensors
[14:38] <Darkside> total current draw is around 150mA
[14:39] <mixio> well me: gps, tx1h, atmega644p, pressure sensor, 2 temp sensors, humid sensor, microSD, embedded jpeg cam
[14:39] <Darkside> heh
[14:39] <Darkside> oh yeah, i have microSD too
[14:39] <mixio> haha
[14:39] <mixio> how u forgot it
[14:39] <Darkside> no cam on mine, we do that separately :P
[14:40] <Darkside> ATV launch coming up soon i hope
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[14:43] <Darkside> anyway, sleep time i think
[14:43] <mixio> hehe
[14:43] <mixio> where r u from?
[14:43] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 Darkside
[14:43] <Darkside> australia
[14:44] <mixio> ah yeah
[14:44] <mixio> friend of juxta
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[14:44] <mixio> :)
[14:54] <mixio> Lunar_Lander
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[14:54] <mixio> it costs 35$
[14:55] <mixio> 10pcs 10x10cm
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> sounds fair
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[14:55] <mixio> with blue silkscreen
[14:55] <mixio> with green its 25$ :P
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea:)
[14:55] <mixio> but i like theblue :)
[14:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[14:56] <mixio> how much you give !
[14:56] <Lunar_Lander> 25 maybe?
[14:57] <mixio> ohh that much!
[14:57] <mixio> you are rich ? lol
[14:57] <mixio> can u find me work in germany? :p
[14:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[14:57] <Lunar_Lander> I'll brb
[14:58] <mixio> ok
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[15:07] <Lunar_Lander> let's say 17,50
[15:07] <mixio> hehe
[15:07] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[15:08] <mixio> they send 5pcs electrically tested and 5pcs without tests
[15:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:08] <mixio> propably i send you the e-tested
[15:08] <mixio> how many u want?
[15:08] <Lunar_Lander> 3 would be good :)
[15:09] <mixio> ok
[15:09] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[15:10] <mixio> first i will order the TX1 to see how it works.if 10mw are enough. then i will order the pcbs. that time we talk again about how you send me money.
[15:10] <Lunar_Lander> good idea
[15:10] <mixio> Maybe you want some features on the pcb. tell me.
[15:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:10] <Lunar_Lander> I need to think about that
[15:10] <Lunar_Lander> and PayPal is good I think
[15:11] <WhiteStarMC-55> hi
[15:11] <mixio> yes, i used paypal with a belgium guy to send him my money
[15:11] <Lunar_Lander> yay :)
[15:11] <WhiteStarMC-55> hey waz up
[15:11] <WhiteStarMC-55> hello
[15:11] <WhiteStarMC-55> ?????
[15:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi WhiteStarMC-55
[15:12] <Lunar_Lander> I'm fine and you?
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[15:32] <mixio> Lunar_Lander
[15:32] <mixio> do u have any store there that sells 7.3mhz crystals?
[15:34] <Lunar_Lander> you got that farnell link, right?
[15:36] <Lunar_Lander> I could get it from there mixio
[15:45] <cuddykid> hmm.. hate the little polystyrene balls that stick to everything when working with expanded poly
[15:47] <mixio> yes wait
[15:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[15:49] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=4695422
[15:50] <mixio> those are sockets for crystals. we need them too.
[15:53] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[15:56] <mixio> 1.
[15:56] <mixio> http://uk.farnell.com/aker/c-7-3728-18-3050-x/crystal-hc49-u-tht-7-3728mhz/dp/1538711
[15:56] <mixio> 2.
[15:56] <mixio> http://uk.farnell.com/euroquartz/7-3728mhz-hc49-4h-30-50-40-18pf-atf/crystal-tht-7-3728mhz/dp/1640866
[15:57] <mixio> those are the best to survive on -40C
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Get a water spray
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: Also - use a fine thin sharp-bladed knife with a smear of oil onit
[15:57] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: I prefer the big AKER
[15:57] <Lunar_Lander> thanks mixio
[15:57] <Lunar_Lander> aker?
[15:57] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: can you order them?
[15:58] <mixio> company name propably
[15:58] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil, so wet the polystyrene?
[15:58] <Lunar_Lander> I think so
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: yes - spray it and the balls are just balls, with no cling.
[15:58] <mixio> both sockets & crystals should be fine.
[15:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:58] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[15:58] <mixio> i need 5pcs of each.
[15:58] <cuddykid> SpeedEvil, ahh thanks!
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: If you use a sharp - not serrated - very thin knife - then it doesn't rip.
[15:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> Especially if you add a teeny bit of oil or fairy liquid
[15:59] <cuddykid> cool, will try :)
[16:09] <WhiteStarMC-55> hey yall
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> hey
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[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> mixio?
[16:28] <mixio> I finished the new design. What?
[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> before I go on my bicycle, I have a feature request
[16:29] <mixio> lol, i just returned from bicycle
[16:29] <mixio> :P
[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:29] <Lunar_Lander> for a sampler or so, it would be nice to control a valve motor
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> either with a timer or having a connection to the pressure sensor
[16:30] <mixio> what ?
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> if I had an air sampling pottle
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> Bottle
[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
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[16:30] <Lunar_Lander> it needs a motorized valve
[16:31] <jcoxon> afternoon
[16:31] <Lunar_Lander> and it would be great to have it open at a certain time or pressure
[16:31] <Lunar_Lander> and then automatically close again
[16:31] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[16:31] <mixio> Lunar_Lander: sorry to say that but we need to keep the main board simple.
[16:31] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon the ballon from southern germany came down in Italy
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> mixio yeah no problem
[16:32] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, oh wow
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> good idea to keep it simpe
[16:32] <jcoxon> thats a good distance
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> simple
[16:32] <mixio> main board already contains tracker, weather station, camera
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> http://aprs.fi/?call=dl0ttm-11&mt=m&z=11&timerange=21600
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> and the sensors + SD, right?
[16:32] <mixio> yes
[16:32] <mixio> its already heavy
[16:32] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, thats an incredible distance
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> true!
[16:32] <jcoxon> must have been a very slow ascent
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, 2.1 m/s about
[16:33] <jcoxon> recovered?
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> not yet from what I heard
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> but they are after it
[16:33] <jcoxon> looks like fun!
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> the valley where it landed is full of trees
[16:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:34] <jcoxon> more trees :-(
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> well
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I ran the predictor
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> I used the data from their June 5 flight
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> 4.2 m/s, 29 km burst
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> landing would have been in the Italian alps!
[16:34] <Lunar_Lander> maybe they decided to climb slowlier because of that
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> (I sent them the prediction yesterday evening)
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> mixio yeah
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> I think it would be better to have an extra board with motor controller and motor if a sampler is aboard
[16:36] <mixio> yes
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> btw I saw a nice motor weighing only 9 g
[16:36] <mixio> the board with the main tracker must not be complex
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> true
[16:36] <mixio> i dont mean heavy by means of weight.
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:36] <mixio> i mean heavy by means of complexity and possible failure
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> the 9 g was an extra info :P
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know
[16:37] <mixio> ahnice
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> I can show you where I saw it
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Getriebemotor-6V-60RPM-Boot-Auto-Roboter-/140567548011?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D140518247400%252B140518247400%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D899203084902745792
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> it's in german but the seller is in Hong Kong
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[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> ttyl jcoxon mixio!
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[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> back
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon have a look at this http://p56.de/stream/index.php?page=livegraphs
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> there is a data outage between 10 and 24 km
[17:47] <jcoxon> how strang
[17:47] <jcoxon> e
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> I'll ask the team when they are home on Monday
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[18:07] <mixio> what is upus photostream link?
[18:07] <mixio> with the payload
[18:10] <mixio> ping Upu
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[18:14] <cuddykid> built my botch job hot wire cutter, now just waiting for nichrome to arrive!
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> hey mixio
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> I'm back
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> but now I'm having dinne
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> +r
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[18:36] <mixio> hi luna
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[18:42] <griffonbot> @jamescoxon: @wb8elk field day launch balloon in flight : http://t.co/AhXVdVj #arhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jamescoxon/status/84692983869476864]
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> mixio back
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[18:53] <mixio> i finished the new design
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> I had another idea
[18:53] <mixio> drop me
[18:53] <mixio> :)
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> a speed of sound experiment
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> a speaker emitting a tone
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> and a microphone at a distance to it
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> you measure the time between tone and reception
[18:54] <mixio> lol
[18:54] <mixio> u get too much scientific that im afraid
[18:54] <eroomde> evening all
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> hello eroomde
[18:54] <Lunar_Lander> nice that you are here
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> mixio that should be a simple task for the chip
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> send an impulse, wait for the response
[18:55] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: you might have to correct for oscillator drifting (due to temp) in the sound recording equipt
[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:55] <eroomde> i guess it might be fairly insignificant compared to change in mach tho
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> I think too
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> but eroomde
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> I got a question on the Venus GPS
[18:56] <eroomde> but a precision-bodge TCXO onto a wav recorder might make a fun blog post
[18:56] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: shoot
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk told me to ask you
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> it is working at high altitude?
[18:56] <eroomde> we bought some directly from the distributor that did
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:56] <eroomde> the parts are available
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> there is a breakout at sparkfun
[18:57] <eroomde> he was very helpful and you might be able to buy two or three off him plus not much p&p
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> do you know if this is the one?
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:57] <eroomde> i'm not sure if it is the one - i think we had to ask specifically
[18:57] <eroomde> let me just check my email archive
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:58] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: what's your email address?
[18:58] <eroomde> pm me
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> got it?
[18:59] <eroomde> yup thanks
[18:59] <eroomde> it's sending
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[19:02] <eroomde> should be with you
[19:02] <eroomde> (flaky connection here, sorry for the delay)
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> np
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> got it thanks
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> sparkfun has Venus634LPx
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> and the e-mail Venus634FLPx
[19:03] <eroomde> so you should be ok
[19:03] <eroomde> :)
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> it's this breakout http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9133
[19:05] <eroomde> looks like a goodie
[19:05] <eroomde> it's a nice unit
[19:06] <eroomde> not great dynamic performance compared to ublox but really great sensitivity and of course you don't really need dynamic performance for hab
[19:06] <eroomde> we got a lock with it upside down, with an aluminium bulkhead above it, in a 1st floor lab in a 3 storey building
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> sec
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[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> oh man
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> sorry
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> I misunderstood you
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> I read "look for the goodie"
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> and I googled "Goodie GPS"
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:09] <eroomde> oh sorry
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> np
[19:10] <eroomde> i should be less colloquial
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> it's OK :)
[19:17] <eroomde> new flght comp then Lunar_Lander ?
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> how do you mean?
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde?
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[19:29] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: sorry. are you designing a new flight computer?
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> well m1x10 is doing one
[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> and I'm looking at a tracker made out of an arduino uno together with mattltm
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah eroomde
[19:40] <eroomde> cool#
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:40] <eroomde> sorry for slow responses - irc over ssh means i don't get an alert when my name is mentioned
[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> NP
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> maybe I'll do a PCB in the future
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> when I have more experience
[19:43] <eroomde> def should
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:53] <fsphil> wb8elk's launch was brief
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> did it come down already?
[19:55] <fsphil> yep
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> from which height?
[19:56] <fsphil> 29558 m
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> he surpassed the Germans by 1513 m
[19:57] <fsphil> Looking a the clock it wasn't that brief, two hours
[19:57] <fsphil> it didn't seem to travel that ar
[19:57] <fsphil> far
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:07] <fsphil> oh no... trees!
[20:09] <eroomde> chainsaw needed
[20:10] <fsphil> it's becoming a habit this
[20:10] <fsphil> still a good chance it will miss them, it's a fairly patchy bit it's heading for
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde so what does a PCB need
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> GPS, CPU, Radio, Sensors and SD
[20:25] <eroomde> that's it
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> and which sensors?
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> pressure, humidity, 2x temperature
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> and maybe acceleration and light
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
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[20:51] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL1
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[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde?
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[21:01] <eroomde> Apologies!
[21:01] <eroomde> temp, pressure are v useful
[21:01] <eroomde> just throw n some ADC channels too
[21:02] <eroomde> a couple of channels for pyros
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:02] <eroomde> put continuity testing on each channel
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> what is that?
[21:03] <eroomde> you have a separate circuit that passes a current through the pyro in series with a 10k (or something else quite high) resistor
[21:03] <eroomde> to check that you have a connection
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[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah!
[21:03] <eroomde> the big resistor is to keep the current low so you don't blow the pyro
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[21:03] <eroomde> it's 8exceptionally* helpful and reassuring to have this feature when you're doing bench testing the pre-flight checks
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah!
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> and for what the pyros?
[21:04] <eroomde> yep
[21:04] <eroomde> just so you don't put in a broken pyro
[21:04] <eroomde> we have had a few e-matches fail for us
[21:04] <eroomde> it was especially useful when we were doing parachute drop testing
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> for a cutdown you mean?
[21:05] <eroomde> we could check that they were ell good before letting the payload drop and freefall to mach 0.8 before popping the parachute
[21:05] <Randomskk> eroomde: any thoughts on small payload-internal cutdowns to sever the line to the parachute, triggered by local xbee or something similar for getting payloads out of trees?
[21:05] <eroomde> they were 3 critical pyros in such a system
[21:05] <eroomde> Randomskk: clearly a good idea!
[21:05] <Randomskk> :P
[21:05] <eroomde> would have saved the bacon of several people this year
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> please explain
[21:06] <Randomskk> I'd hesitate before using explosives inside the box though?
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> you did something like Kittinger did on Excelsior?=
[21:06] <Randomskk> maybe hot wire
[21:06] <eroomde> just ontop Randomskk
[21:06] <Randomskk> I guess that would be fine
[21:06] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: we had a vehicle with a parachute packed inside it
[21:06] <Randomskk> also cool would be if the xbee could high-speed data transfer photos/videos/logs from SD card
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:06] <eroomde> we detached that vehicle from the balloon and let it free-fall for about 23 seconds
[21:06] <Randomskk> so even if you can't get the box back but you can get close, you can extract all the data
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> and then have a delayed chute?
[21:07] <eroomde> then we blew a pyrotechnic protractor which release a spring-pilot parachute which deployed the main parachute
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:07] <Randomskk> both of these ideas may have been a little inspired by standing 25m under the payload in a dense forest recently :P
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> and you reached Mach 0.8?
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Randomskk :P
[21:07] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: yes
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> well done
[21:07] <eroomde> it was not a conventional hab payload though
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> aerodynamic?
[21:08] <fsphil-laptop> trees must fall
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:08] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: yep
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:08] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/stories/2011/CU_Spaceflight/
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> will ExoMars entry vehicle also look like a missile?
[21:11] <fsphil-laptop> very cool
[21:11] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: the paper is the interesting bit
[21:11] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: no
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:12] <eroomde> it'll be shaped like a blunt body like the others - because 98% of the velocity is dissipated by the heat sheild at hyper and supersonic velocities
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> true
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:12] <eroomde> we were just testing the next part of whatever it was i wrote in that article
[21:12] <eroomde> 'complex ballet' or somethig a bit naff
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> paper is open
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> Randomskk mentioned the heated coil cutdown
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> what do you say about that eroomde?
[21:14] <eroomde> make sure the hot-wire is rigid
[21:14] <eroomde> if it flexes it can fatigue and break
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:14] <eroomde> take a look at this to see the kind of movement you can experience
[21:14] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/1598522
[21:15] <eroomde> that would be my only concern
[21:15] <eroomde> i quite like pyrotechnics because they're just so reliable
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> ohh 90° pitch!
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[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah that is extreme eroomde
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[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> green flash is just a cam error?
[21:18] <eroomde> oh probably
[21:18] <eroomde> i got them off ebay in 2006 for about £5
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> I thought it's the real green flash of sunrise
[21:19] <eroomde> this was middayish
[21:19] <eroomde> nova 8 was our first dawn mission
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> do you know Manhigh II?
[21:20] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3740099909/in/set-72157621752577188
[21:20] <eroomde> I don;t know ManHigh
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> it was a 1957/58 USAF Project
[21:21] <eroomde> just wikipedia-ing :)
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[21:21] <eroomde> poor men!
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> but Dave Simons was the first to see the green flash in the stratosphere
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> but he hung above a thunderstorm the whole night
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> and when McClure's capsule overheated...
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> when he landed, his body temp was at 108°F
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[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> that is 42.5°C
[21:23] <eroomde> jesus
[21:23] <eroomde> he must have passed out?
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> no, he was concious actually
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> he was able to eject the capsule dome, stand up, doff his helmet and grin at the helicopter crew
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> after a night at base hospital on fluids, he was OK again
[21:24] <eroomde> wow
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:24] <eroomde> what caused him to overheat?
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> it's not known really
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> you see
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> Manhigh I and II were cooled during the day and heated passivly at night by the electronics
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> III was painted white and had an active heating for the night
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> and now, McClure accidentally popped his personal chute in the capsule
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> he repacked it in his lap
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> twice, because he had the pins in wrong at the first go
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> it is thought that the excess sweating overloaded the CO2 absorber which was filled with alkalines
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> and as you know alkaline+water is exothermic
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[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
[21:28] <eroomde> gosh
[21:28] <eroomde> rearkable
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:28] <eroomde> doesn't look like the ideal place to be packing a parachute either
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> true
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> you see he was sealed up
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> and a few days ago, the balloon had been wrecked just before launch
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> and they only had the backup envelope
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> and he didn't want to call them up, because if a ZP envelope is unrolled, you are committed to launch
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> and also, the funding of manhigh was in jeopardy
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> so he thought if he would call and the launch would be aborted, there would be no flight of Manhigh III
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> but it wasn't that he wanted to be in the stratosphere just for being a hero, but for science
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> when they asked him to descend, he asked if he couldn't wait for the night to cool the capsule
[21:32] <eroomde> uhuh
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> and there was that great scene at Dave's landing
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> he walked out with his pressure suit
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> and a farmer and his son came up
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> and he thought if they would mistake him for an alien
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> and then the helicopter came
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> and the son: "Look Dad, a helicopter! I always wanted to see one of those!"!
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[21:35] <eroomde> nice :)
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> so what I also want to have is a speed of sound experiment
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> a speaker emits a tone
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> and a microphone receives it
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> and we'd need a time measurement between tone and signal
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> is that difficult?
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde?
[21:42] <eroomde> hmm, not realy
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> can it be integrated in the PCB?
[21:42] <eroomde> but also maybe tricky to do well
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:42] <eroomde> just wondering if there's another way to measure it
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> I think this one is the simplest one
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> and you cant really have like an explosion and measure the sound on the ground or so
[21:43] <Randomskk> as with many things, something slightly more complicated might be a lot better though
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> I need c in any way
[21:47] <eroomde> i'm thinking about measuring the phase difference of something
[21:47] <eroomde> have a speaker producing a steady freq, have a mic
[21:47] <Randomskk> that's usually how you do it for light, right?
[21:47] <eroomde> compare the two
[21:48] <Randomskk> for measuring distances etc
[21:48] <eroomde> yup
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> we had a modulated LED in the lab
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> and a sensor
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> and the oscilloscope had the sensor data and the modulator data
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> and we had to move the LED so that we had one phase shift of 180°
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> and the distance between the LED positions was the thing we needed
[21:49] <eroomde> sure
[21:50] <eroomde> so in this case you fix mic and speaker, and t's the waveength of the freq that changes
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[21:50] <eroomde> as the environment changes
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> lambda is a function of c then?
[21:52] <eroomde> yup
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:53] <eroomde> c=f*lamda
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> so
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> f is fixed
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> and is emitted by the loudspeaker
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> and the mic receives the tone
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> and what gives me lambda?
[21:56] <eroomde> well, this you'd have to calibrate
[21:56] <eroomde> so you'd test it on the ground
[21:57] <eroomde> and measure the difference in voltage between what you were inputting to the speaker and what the mic was showing
[21:57] <eroomde> at any one time
[21:58] <eroomde> and then that voltage would change as lamda changed
[21:58] <eroomde> when in antiphase their sum would be zero
[21:59] <eroomde> (you'd have to scale the received signal accordingly)
[21:59] <eroomde> and they'd sum to some amount when in phase
[22:00] <eroomde> and then i guess once you have those two points you just map a sinusoid beytween them
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:00] <eroomde> however, obviosly there's actually quite a lot of real-world design to be done here
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> when we did the SOL measurements
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> we also had one of the things I suggested above: blue LED, reflector, photomultiplier
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> this gave quite satisfactory resulty
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> *results
[22:02] <eroomde> i was just thinking about noise sources that could upset this experiment
[22:02] <eroomde> but if you start doing filters then you have all the associated frequency-dependant phase lag that they introduce
[22:02] <eroomde> could get a bit complicated quite quickly
[22:03] <eroomde> oh no wait
[22:03] <eroomde> doh
[22:03] <eroomde> ok, this is ham radio stuff
[22:03] <eroomde> use a phase detector
[22:03] <eroomde> a fundamental part of phase locked loop design
[22:04] Action: Laurenceb_ wonders what the topic is
[22:04] <Laurenceb_> tooooo much scrollback
[22:04] <eroomde> measureing speed of sound on a hab
[22:05] <eroomde> drive a speaker with one sinusoid, have a mic some distance away
[22:05] <eroomde> measure phase difference between the two
[22:05] <eroomde> from which you can calculate wavelength and so speed of cound
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:06] <Laurenceb_> ...but...why
[22:06] <eroomde> SCIENCE
[22:06] <eroomde> (it works, bitches)
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah true
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> SOS#
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> damn
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[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> SOS is a theoretical parameter in the US Standard Atmosphere
[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> but it should be measured too
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[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> and it is not difficult to measure
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> wb mattltm-alt
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> mattltm_mob
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde so a phase detector does the job?
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> balloon hasn't been found in Italy
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> the chasers stopped due to darkness
[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> *yet
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[22:17] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: i think it could work nicely yep
[22:18] <eroomde> would be a fun proj
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> and a different thing was
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> (this is back to the PCB if that is OK for you?)
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> a pinhole camera shutter with a timer
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> is that difficult?
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[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde?
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello mattltm
[22:29] <mattltm> Howdy :)
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[22:30] <mattltm> Good thanks.
[22:31] <mattltm> You?
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> me too thanks :)
[22:32] <mattltm> good :)
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> did you notice the german flight?
[22:33] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host109-152-235-135.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:33] <mattltm> I saw a bit thanks th the guys in the channel
[22:33] <jcoxon> evening
[22:33] <mattltm> hi jcoxon :0
[22:34] <jcoxon> hey mattltm, hows tricks?
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> hey jcoxon
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> the balloon hasn't been found in Italy yet
[22:34] <Lunar_Lander> they stopped because of darkness
[22:35] <jcoxon> looks like a good flight by wb8elk
[22:35] <jcoxon> the predictions were right on the money
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[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde jcoxon mattltm http://cgi.ebay.de/6V-DC-60RPM-Torque-Gear-Box-Motor-Brand-New-/120726707840?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1bdf5e80#ht_2302wt_1139
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about this motor?
[22:45] <jcoxon> whats it for?
[22:45] <jcoxon> it is *
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> just so
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> I thought it would be good if a motor is needed
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> because it only weighs 9 g
[22:47] <jcoxon> for high alt stuff you'd need to strip out the grease
[22:47] <jcoxon> as it would likely to freeze
[22:48] <mattltm> jcoxon: good thanks:)
[22:48] <mattltm> How have you been?
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah jcoxon
[22:51] <jcoxon> mattltm good thanks
[22:52] <jcoxon> been working on some sea based stuff
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> you mean that driftsonde project? which was mentioned here some time?
[22:52] <jcoxon> yup
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> do you think that bathyscaphe could be built?
[22:53] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, no
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> too difficult to scale it down?
[22:54] <mattltm> jcoxon: sea based sounds fun :)
[22:55] <jcoxon> ROVs are possible
[22:56] <jcoxon> mattltm, just need to improve the power saving and then do some testing
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> I mean
[22:56] <mattltm> Very cool. What is it for?
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> I don't want to send it down the Challenger Deep
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> just like in a lake or so
[22:57] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, then yeah people have done it
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> but the thing is
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> it needs petrol as swimming fluid
[22:57] Action: Lunar_Lander looks at the gas station prices
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> *sigh*
[22:58] <jcoxon> mattltm yeah so building a driftsonde, GSM based
[22:59] <mattltm> http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2006/driftsondefacts.shtml
[22:59] <mattltm> Like that?
[23:00] <jcoxon> nah
[23:00] <mattltm> A bouy?
[23:00] <jcoxon> though i was out in africa working on that
[23:00] <jcoxon> http://coseenow.net/groups/mate-drifter-project/blog/
[23:00] <jcoxon> but its not going to be such a deep drifter
[23:01] <jcoxon> more a surface drifter
[23:01] <jcoxon> don't want to put too much into the sea
[23:01] <mattltm> Ah, cool. How does the coms work? Sat?
[23:01] <jcoxon> going to start with GSM
[23:02] <jcoxon> in the english channel
[23:02] <mattltm> Very nice. Let me know when your going to launch it :)
[23:02] <jcoxon> probs in 2 weeks time
[23:02] <jcoxon> 2 or 3 weeks
[23:02] <mattltm> I could probbly snag a 6M rib for the day if I ask real nice :)
[23:03] <mattltm> Also, my folks own a hotel right on the clif top at Broadstais so may be able to recive a 434 signal :)
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> do you put experiments on jcoxon?
[23:04] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, well this is a prototype
[23:04] <jcoxon> mattltm i was going to drop it off worthing pier
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:05] <mattltm> Ah, you may find that it need to be a bit furthur out to avoid it comming back to shore. Dropping at as the tide turns and starts to go out?
[23:05] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:05] <jcoxon> i was thinking also of adding cardboard fins
[23:06] <jcoxon> to get it further out
[23:06] <jcoxon> but which will drop off
[23:06] <mattltm> Good idea.
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[23:07] <mattltm> So you stick a hab tracker ina waterproof box and subsitute the ntx for a gsm module. What next? Plot the data to see wind/tide?
[23:08] <jcoxon> mattltm, exactly
[23:08] <jcoxon> but take power saving a bit further
[23:08] <mattltm> and hope it stays within gsm range :)
[23:08] <jcoxon> so an RTC kicks the avr out of low power sleep mode
[23:08] <jcoxon> which powers on the gps
[23:08] <jcoxon> gets a lock
[23:08] <mattltm> Ah, cool/
[23:08] <jcoxon> powers the gps down
[23:08] <jcoxon> powers up the gsm module
[23:08] <jcoxon> sends an sms
[23:08] <jcoxon> powers it down and goes to sleep
[23:09] <jcoxon> the RTC is currently set to turn on every hour
[23:09] <jcoxon> and then solar charging the lipo
[23:09] <mattltm> I thought there were some low freq allocations for bouys?
[23:09] <jcoxon> i reckon the GSM will work in the channel
[23:10] <jcoxon> mattltm i secretly look forward to it disappearing for a day or 2 and reappearing in french range
[23:10] <mattltm> Works to about 1 mile ofshore at broadstairs
[23:10] <mattltm> lol.
[23:10] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:11] <jcoxon> well this is a big experiement
[23:11] <jcoxon> also thought that we could drop a version in the thames
[23:11] <jcoxon> and watch it come down
[23:11] <mattltm> That would be fun :)
[23:12] Action: jcoxon is creating a new branch of hab hobby
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[23:12] <mattltm> Next time your down this way you should pop into the hackspace :)
[23:12] <jcoxon> fsphil is working on another version
[23:12] <jcoxon> mattltm - well i was viewing flats in canterbury today
[23:12] <mattltm> Cool.
[23:12] <jcoxon> think we've found somewhere
[23:12] <jcoxon> mattltm oh and in theory APRS could be used
[23:13] <mattltm> 26.957 - 27.283 10mW
[23:13] <jcoxon> cause we ain't in the air
[23:13] <mattltm> so long as you have a full licence
[23:13] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:13] <jcoxon> which i don't
[23:13] <jcoxon> hence GSM
[23:13] <jcoxon> mattltm if i can make this self-sufficient
[23:13] <jcoxon> in theory it could pop up anywhere
[23:14] <mattltm> orbcomm?
[23:14] <jcoxon> well SPoT would work
[23:15] <jcoxon> but not for the first launch
[23:15] <mattltm> Ah, yes a spot would be good.
[23:15] <jcoxon> mattltm you should build one as well
[23:15] <jcoxon> :-)
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon do you remember WB8ELK's flight which landed in the atlantic?
[23:16] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, yes
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> do you think that it will be found anywhere, anytime?
[23:16] <jcoxon> probably not
[23:17] <jcoxon> i'd say this is another branch of citizen science
[23:17] <mattltm> Well I do have a spare arduino, gps, 5Ah lipo and one of these...
[23:17] <mattltm> http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/acatalog/info_137_035.html
[23:17] <mattltm> Just need a comms module.
[23:17] <jcoxon> ooooo
[23:18] <jcoxon> i'm using a gm862
[23:18] <jcoxon> as i've got lots of experience with them
[23:18] <jcoxon> fsphil is using a different one
[23:19] <jcoxon> whats nice with this is we don't need to get launch permission
[23:19] <mattltm> Now you got me thinking :)
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[23:19] <mattltm> Yes. Dont fancy soing the auto sailing challange do you?
[23:20] <jcoxon> well
[23:20] <jcoxon> starting off with this
[23:20] <jcoxon> will teach loads about stuff
[23:20] <jcoxon> e.g. waterproofing
[23:20] <jcoxon> and long duration
[23:20] <mattltm> How big is yous? Ahem...
[23:21] <jcoxon> drifting remote operation station (DROP)
[23:21] <jcoxon> its currently fits in a tupperware box
[23:22] <jcoxon> need sky view
[23:22] <mattltm> Have you built a bouy for it yet?
[23:22] <jcoxon> no
[23:22] <jcoxon> just finishing the hardware
[23:22] <mattltm> PV panels?
[23:22] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:23] <jcoxon> i'm tempted to put it in a tupperware box
[23:23] <jcoxon> then silicone seal it
[23:23] <mattltm> Just a tupperware box?
[23:24] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:24] <jcoxon> its going to bob
[23:24] Action: SpeedEvil just bought 300W of solar cells.
[23:24] <mattltm> I would be tempted to go with a weighted darren drum
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:24] <jcoxon> my thinking was to have everything inside
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Planning on really cheap panels. ~70p/W
[23:24] <jcoxon> rather than trying to seal stuff
[23:25] <mattltm> Ah, I see
[23:28] <mattltm> I like it :)
[23:28] <jcoxon> reckon it would work?
[23:28] <mattltm> Maybe. Do you have a wayto keep it up the right way?
[23:29] <jcoxon> i guess weighting it is the only way
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[23:30] <mattltm> Weight the bottom and stick a small mast with a float on the top to prevent 180 flip/
[23:31] <jcoxon> oh i see
[23:31] <jcoxon> so that the float will keep it at 90 until it flips back
[23:33] <mattltm> Yup.
[23:33] <jcoxon> ideally i'd like to raise the gsm antenna out of the box
[23:33] <mattltm> and if it does go all the way, the flot will puch it back round to 90 and them back up :)
[23:33] <jcoxon> but i think for first time round i should keep everything iside
[23:34] Action: mattltm has been sailing for 19 years.
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:34] <mattltm> Thats why i'm interested in this :0
[23:34] <jcoxon> mattltm i think it'll be fun
[23:34] <jcoxon> if we develop a 'design'
[23:34] <jcoxon> we could release a 'fleet'
[23:35] <jcoxon> actually learn stuff
[23:35] <mattltm> Raising the GSM antenn should be easy enough.
[23:35] <jcoxon> but i want it to be waterproof
[23:35] <jcoxon> hence my plan for nothing outside
[23:35] <mattltm> Maybe we should start a new wiki?
[23:35] <jcoxon> yeah thats on the list of things to do
[23:35] <jcoxon> prob best to start with an IRC channel
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:36] <mattltm> A small hole with the antenna cable through it? Seal with silicone or a gromit?
[23:37] <jcoxon> yeah
[23:37] <jcoxon> it might be worth it
[23:37] <jcoxon> to get that extra range
[23:39] <jcoxon> okay sleep time
[23:39] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:39] <mattltm> Byeee
[23:39] <mattltm> ops, to late!
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[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Night
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> oh
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[00:00] --- Sun Jun 26 2011