highaltitude.log.20110621

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[04:59] <SamSilver> whats up Will?
[05:00] <WillDuckworth> Morning
[05:00] <WillDuckworth> early overtime for me - but means i can leave early too :)
[05:00] <SpeedEvil> Morning.
[05:00] <SamSilver> Morning speed
[05:01] Action: SpeedEvil has been watching nokia conferences, and applying for developer programs.
[05:01] Action: SpeedEvil needs to go to bed, it being past 6AM
[05:01] <SamSilver> i got a great cuppa coffee and so all is well with the world
[05:01] <WillDuckworth> sounds it
[05:01] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: you pull an alll nighter?
[05:02] <SpeedEvil> SamSilver: that, or failed at sleep again.
[05:02] <SamSilver> I am a great beliver in alcohol as a sleep inducer
[05:03] <SamSilver> worked for me for years
[05:03] <SamSilver> but now I have to go to thouse stupid meetings every week
[05:03] <SamSilver> ;-p
[05:05] <WillDuckworth> lol
[05:05] <SamSilver> afk
[05:05] <WillDuckworth> any projects on the go guys?
[05:06] <Darkside> hopefully we'll have a launch soon
[05:06] <Darkside> juxta: ^
[05:06] <Darkside> <_<
[05:06] <Darkside> i want to fly MiniNut
[05:07] <WillDuckworth> sounds good - what type of payload is that?
[05:07] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/DSC_4087.jpg
[05:10] <WillDuckworth> nice, i'm going for a 3 transmitter payload (hopefully) fingers crossed
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[05:26] <WillDuckworth> Darkside, do you always use the high power versions of the NTX?
[05:28] <Darkside> yes
[05:29] <WillDuckworth> don't suppose you could do a comparison flight sometime to see if it makes so big a difference, as us UK based folk have to use the 10mW buggers
[05:29] <Darkside> oh, we normally fly 25mW UHF modules
[05:29] <Darkside> its only the VHF ones that have been 100mW
[05:32] <Darkside> the 25mW ones have been heard hundreds of km away
[05:32] <SamSilver> my 144MHz will be 8 watts BRB HP
[05:34] <SamSilver> seems a bit of a waste of batt power
[05:35] <Darkside> mm
[05:35] <Darkside> 8 watts is a bit overkill
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[05:51] <SamSilver> earthshine: the area where I will be flying does not have a digi node within 400km
[05:52] <SamSilver> Darkside: ops
[05:52] <SamSilver> Darkside: the area where I will be flying does not have a digi node within 400Km
[05:52] <Darkside> doesn't mean 8 watts will get you there
[05:53] <Darkside> why not run a local APRS receiver
[05:53] <SamSilver> then the next one is about 500km
[05:53] <Darkside> or a temporary digi node
[05:53] <Darkside> or don't use APRS at all
[05:53] <SamSilver> I will be but laptop crash
[05:53] <SamSilver> vehicle stuck in mud
[05:53] <SamSilver> more for backup
[05:54] <SamSilver> Darkside: I would luv to have the loan the Land Cruiser
[05:54] <Darkside> hehe
[05:54] <SamSilver> *of
[05:54] <Darkside> what country?
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[05:57] <SamSilver> South Africa
[05:57] <Darkside> ahh
[05:57] <Darkside> you pay for shipping of rhte landcruiser
[05:58] <SamSilver> very rough in most parts with few tarmac roads
[05:59] <Darkside> mm
[06:00] <SamSilver> Darkside: I was saying on here the other day that you guys are not the dedicated to RDF
[06:00] <Darkside> ?
[06:00] <Darkside> not the dedicated?
[06:00] <SamSilver> otherwise you woud have made a few holes in the RL's roof
[06:00] <Darkside> nah, it was easier to have them out the windows
[06:00] <SamSilver> ;-p
[06:01] <Darkside> and it means it can all be packed up is required
[06:01] <Darkside> but we don't
[06:01] <SamSilver> Sh!t man with 13 antenna and counting that is pure dedication
[06:01] <Darkside> haha
[06:01] <SamSilver> do you know of a better equiped vehicle?
[06:02] <Darkside> for ballooning? no
[06:02] <Darkside> for radio direction finding in general? yes
[06:02] <SamSilver> Oh realy got a link for that one please
[06:02] <Darkside> i don't have one
[06:03] <Darkside> just some of the other teams at the foxhunting championships we went to had rotating antennas
[06:03] <Darkside> and automatically got the bearing
[06:03] <Darkside> we just do it manually
[06:03] <SamSilver> yours has encoders right
[06:04] <Darkside> precision 360 deg pots
[06:04] <Darkside> gives us sub 1 degrees precision
[06:04] <Darkside> but we only use it to 1 degree precision
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[06:06] <SamSilver> Darkside: do you have a link for the champs?
[06:06] <Darkside> nothing good
[06:07] <SamSilver> do you do RDF on 160M band?
[06:08] <Darkside> nope
[06:08] <Darkside> not at this comp
[06:08] <Darkside> we do 80m, 10m, 6m, 2m, 70cm, and 23cm
[06:08] <Darkside> i'm good at 80, 10, 6 and 70cm
[06:08] <SamSilver> do tell what anttena you use for 80m
[06:08] <Darkside> lops
[06:08] <Darkside> loops
[06:09] <Darkside> loops for 80, 10, 6, HB9CV for 2m, and yagis for 70cm and 23cm
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[06:10] <Darkside> here's some info on the 10m loop: http://rfhead.net/?p=164
[06:10] <SamSilver> thanx a ton
[06:11] <Darkside> and for 2m: http://rfhead.net/?p=113
[06:12] <Darkside> thats the HB9CV we made
[06:12] <Darkside> since our old one was broken
[06:12] <SamSilver> wow I am going to lear a lot from that Thanx a lot mate
[06:12] <Darkside> (found out it was broken on a foxhunt)
[06:12] <SamSilver> thats a bugger
[06:14] <Darkside> luckily it was only a practice foxhunt
[06:14] <Darkside> at the comps we went really well on 6m and 10m
[06:14] <Darkside> not so well on 80m, but the fox was in a shit of a location
[06:15] <SamSilver> how far away do you start from the fox?
[06:15] <Darkside> 6m was brilliant - there was a 2m hunt right before it, and while the other beam-swinger was DFing 2m, i was DFing 6m
[06:15] <Darkside> SamSilver: depends
[06:15] <Darkside> one of the hunts we were a good 80km away
[06:15] <Darkside> anyway, i was DFing 6m, and just plotting bearings
[06:15] <Darkside> we got to the 2m fox, and i got a chance to have a look at my bearings
[06:15] <Darkside> we had a perfect ring of intercept points, right around where the fox was
[06:16] <Darkside> we basically drove straight to the 6m fox then
[06:16] <Darkside> and while we were driving, i DFed the 10m fox
[06:16] <Darkside> :P
[06:16] <SamSilver> I am LOLing @ "beam-swinger" first time I have heard that.
[06:17] <Darkside> well, it's what you do
[06:17] <Darkside> not always a beam, but anyway
[06:17] <SamSilver> does he system do data logging\?
[06:17] <Darkside> some pics here: http://rfhead.net/gallery/2011-06-11_Mt_Gambier_Foxhunting_Comp_Day1/
[06:17] <SamSilver> the
[06:17] <Darkside> SamSilver: to a point
[06:17] <Darkside> we didn't save any logs from the hunts, we should have
[06:17] <Darkside> but we were a bit busy at the time
[06:18] <SamSilver> I bet
[06:18] <Darkside> i might code in a bit of logging at some point
[06:18] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/gallery/2011-06-12_Mt_Gambier_Foxhunting_Comp_Day2/Images/9.jpg <-- how you DF 23cm
[06:19] <SamSilver> aaahhh mud!!
[06:19] <SamSilver> thanx again for the info
[06:19] <WillDuckworth> looks a little sticky
[06:20] <SamSilver> lol @ 23cm
[06:20] <Darkside> see: http://vimeo.com/25024149
[06:21] <Darkside> how we got it out, then got bogged again
[06:21] <Darkside> that video needs a few bleeps
[06:21] <Darkside> but oh well
[06:21] <Darkside> anyway, i need to head off, got a seminar i want to go to on MIMO over-the-horizon radar
[06:22] <Darkside> will be back on later
[06:22] <SamSilver> go well
[06:22] <SamSilver> cheers
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[06:34] <jcoxon> morning
[06:34] <SamSilver> morning
[06:36] <jcoxon> hey SamSilver
[06:36] <SamSilver> I am getting there
[06:37] <jcoxon> hehe
[06:37] <SamSilver> got my unrestricted licence the other day
[06:37] <jcoxon> oh awesome
[06:37] <SamSilver> I am now ZS5JND
[06:37] <SamSilver> have made two yagi ants
[06:37] <SamSilver> 344 & 144 bothe 7 element
[06:37] <jcoxon> wow things are moving a head
[06:37] <SamSilver> both
[06:38] <SamSilver> ordering radio and working on 40m morse TX
[06:38] <SamSilver> how goes it with SPOT?
[06:39] <jcoxon> haven't done much recently
[06:39] <jcoxon> have been working on another project
[06:39] <SamSilver> nd that is?
[06:39] <SamSilver> and
[06:39] <jcoxon> a remote controlled/autonomous ocean drifter
[06:40] <jcoxon> the prototype will be GSM based for comms
[06:40] <SamSilver> wow that will be fun
[06:42] <jcoxon> yeah it wakes up with an alarm from an RTC
[06:42] <jcoxon> turns on the gps, gets a lock, turns the gps off, turns the gsm module on, sends the data and then shutsdown and sleeps
[06:43] <jcoxon> with solar panels and a lipo
[06:44] <SamSilver> what antenna?
[06:45] <jcoxon> the GSM antenna?
[06:45] <SamSilver> RTC ??
[06:46] <jcoxon> real time clock
[06:46] <SamSilver> and TX period depending on battery condition?
[06:46] <SamSilver> I mean sleep period
[06:47] <SamSilver> period between sleeps
[06:47] <jcoxon> yes
[06:47] <jcoxon> and as its GSM we can send it commands
[06:48] <SamSilver> soooo which ocean
[06:48] <jcoxon> well english channel first
[06:49] <jcoxon> as need to see how GSM works in the sea
[06:49] <jcoxon> future versions will probably require SPoT
[06:51] <WillDuckworth> should be good - have you got roaming enabled?
[06:51] <jcoxon> only just activated the sim card
[06:51] <WillDuckworth> for when it ventures far and wide!
[06:51] <jcoxon> but yeah will do that
[06:51] <jcoxon> i think its quite a fun project
[06:51] <jcoxon> my worry is sealing it sufficiently
[06:52] <WillDuckworth> yep - what are you putting it in?
[06:52] <jcoxon> still working on that
[06:52] <jcoxon> i thought about tupperware
[06:53] <jcoxon> but securing it more
[06:53] <WillDuckworth> galvanized rubber stuff - bicycle repair glue and plenty of silicone
[06:55] <jcoxon> yeah
[06:56] <jcoxon> its going to be a one way sealing
[06:56] <jcoxon> no going back in
[06:56] <SamSilver> made to spec polycarbonate would be smart
[06:59] <jcoxon> WillDuckworth, best supplier of silicone?
[07:01] <jcoxon> maplins have some
[07:01] <WillDuckworth> not sure - but any of the mastic type i reckon that sets solid.
[07:02] <WillDuckworth> silicone grease it to finish off maybe?
[07:02] <WillDuckworth> wickes/homebase/b&q
[07:02] <jcoxon> so my thinking is tupperware box, click it all shut
[07:02] <jcoxon> silicone around the seal
[07:02] <jcoxon> cable ties to make sure that the lid doesn't come off
[07:03] <WillDuckworth> yeah - sounds good - box with a proper rubber o-ring washer
[07:03] <eroomde> aaaaaaarrgghhh cable ties
[07:04] <eroomde> xan we add two features to zeusbot please
[07:04] <jcoxon> eroomde, this ain't altitude stuff
[07:04] <jcoxon> do you still think they'll fatigue in sea water?
[07:04] <SamSilver> jcoxon: a mate uses this for sealind trackers to crocodiles http://www.hydrel.com/products/Family.asp?Family=Potting%20Compound%20(PC21)&ProductType=Poles%20and%20Accessories&Category=
[07:05] <SamSilver> * seal
[07:05] <eroomde> 1) zuesbot says 'ahahahaha!!!! hehehehehe!!! ahaha! heee....' whenever someone says 'lol', as a kind of passive-agressive behavioral change technique to stop people saying it
[07:05] <eroomde> 2) a health warning when cable ties are mentioned
[07:05] <WillDuckworth> lol
[07:05] <WillDuckworth> ;)
[07:06] <Upu2> morning all
[07:06] Nick change: Upu2 -> Upu
[07:07] <Upu> I ran the chase car thing to work, it updates every 15sec is that ok ? Seems to work fine on the tracker anyway.
[07:07] <jcoxon> Upu, its quite a lot of points
[07:08] <jcoxon> even though the tracker doesn't show teh points it stores them i think
[07:08] <Upu> ok I'll get him to reduce it
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[07:24] <eroomde> jcoxon: how are things?
[07:27] <jcoxon> good thanks
[07:27] <jcoxon> and you?
[07:27] <eroomde> not bad thanks
[07:27] <eroomde> just 'on holiday' atm
[07:27] <eroomde> but really trying to sort moving to oxford
[07:28] <jcoxon> oxford oxford or near to oxford?
[07:28] <eroomde> keeping options open
[07:28] <jcoxon> sensible
[07:28] <eroomde> either oxford oxford or just south
[07:28] <eroomde> if you have any medic friends looking for a house share...
[07:28] <jcoxon> not sure i know anyone in the oxford deanery
[07:29] <jcoxon> you down south anytime soon?
[07:30] <eroomde> hrm, probs
[07:30] <eroomde> might move some stuff back to sussex as an intermediary to ox
[07:30] <jcoxon> shout when you are
[07:30] <eroomde> infact i might be home this weekend for a day
[07:30] <eroomde> ok, willdo
[07:30] <jcoxon> i'm going house hunting this weekend
[07:30] <jcoxon> on sat
[07:30] <jcoxon> in canterbury
[07:30] <eroomde> ok, well after this w/e i'll shout
[07:30] <eroomde> i may be back on sunday
[07:31] <jcoxon> right i better get ready for work
[07:31] <eroomde> need to sort that out. in ox fri, potentially sat if not at home, and monday, tue, wed
[07:31] <eroomde> training for new job among other things
[07:31] <jcoxon> eek
[07:31] <jcoxon> :-)
[07:31] <jcoxon> cya eroomde
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[07:47] <SamSilver> good luck eroomde
[07:48] <SamSilver> bbl
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[07:50] <Blackover> Ta-dam!
[07:50] <Blackover> Hello!
[07:50] <eroomde> hello Blackover
[07:51] <Blackover> any news with&
[07:51] <Blackover> oh
[07:51] <eroomde> ?
[07:52] <Blackover> want consult with gas sensor. Have anyone deal with them&
[07:53] <Blackover> gas sensors like mics e2v mics ozone sensor http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/MICS2610/333414
[07:56] <eroomde> interesting Blackover
[07:56] <eroomde> and a cool idea for a flight instrument
[08:00] <Blackover> ok. i have a set of them and will report results. And what about pressure sensor? I found only one solution for flight - "BMP085" (with I2C interface)
[08:01] <Blackover> Analog sensors have low sensivity and have to be amplified
[08:02] <Blackover> To cover analog input range
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[08:09] <eroomde> apologies, a friend dropped in
[08:09] <eroomde> sparkfun sell digital pressure sensors
[08:09] <Darkside> BMP085
[08:09] <Darkside> works well
[08:10] <WillDuckworth> i've had good results with the SCP1000
[08:10] <eroomde> i've used the scp1000 too
[08:10] <eroomde> it's deceent, and works below 30kPa despite advertising otherwise
[08:11] <WillDuckworth> plus on the sparkfun breakout you get easy soldering and a temperature sensor
[08:13] <Darkside> BMP085 has a tmep sensor inbuilt
[08:14] <Darkside> it doesn't work very well tho lol
[08:14] <eroomde> sigh
[08:15] <Darkside> we use the DS18B20s, though i'd prefer a capacitive wire sensor or something
[08:24] <Blackover> SCP1000 works below 30kPa in practise?
[08:25] <Blackover> and does BMP085 work with low pressure?
[08:26] <eroomde> I've not used them - anyone?
[08:32] <Darkside> i have
[08:32] <Darkside> yeah, they work
[08:32] <Darkside> i've got logs... somewhere
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[08:33] <Blackover> What minimum of pressure can they measure?
[08:34] <Darkside> cannot remember
[08:35] <Blackover> in practise, not according to datasheet
[08:35] <Darkside> cannot brain atm
[08:35] <eroomde> sounds like it'll be fine for ballooning, if that's your intended application Blackover
[08:36] <Blackover> there is 3 kPa at balloon burst altitude
[08:39] <eroomde> a bit lower than that, often!
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[09:09] <mattltm-alt> Yay! Loads of gear has just turned up for the hackspace :)
[09:09] <eroomde> which one?
[09:09] <mattltm-alt> This one - www.icmp.org.uk
[09:10] <mattltm-alt> Got our first "oficial" meeting next week :)
[09:11] <eroomde> so kent?
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[09:13] <mattltm-alt> Yup, Medway.
[09:14] <mattltm-alt> There are only about 6 of us involved so far but it's very new.
[09:14] <eroomde> awesome
[09:16] <fsphil> So the robot invasion begins in Kent
[09:17] <mattltm-alt> We have designed an Arduino clone that we will be giving away to new members. All through hole components, including on board ethernet, space fo an RFM12 and a small prototypeing area :)
[09:18] <mattltm-alt> called the Meduino :)
[09:18] <mattltm-alt> I should have the PCB layout back by today.
[09:20] <eroomde> ah g5rand
[09:20] <eroomde> i'd be interested to see that
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[09:22] <mattltm-alt> Sure, as soon as it's back it will go on to the site :)
[09:22] <mattltm-alt> Im sure there will be a few "samples" avaliable :)
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[10:23] <Upu> http://pastebin.com/K1nerhk0
[10:31] <fsphil> typical
[10:32] <Darkside> oh dear
[10:33] <Upu> http://2011.census.gov.uk/My-census/Frequently-asked-questions#15
[10:34] <Upu> well lets see if it turns up first
[10:40] <Laurenceb> lulwut
[10:41] <Laurenceb> ill believe it if i see it
[10:44] <Laurenceb> otherwise... we just got trolled
[10:47] <BrainDamage> upu: here the government itself released that info due to some BS
[10:50] <Laurenceb> just a year ago anonymous etc were a joke... what happened
[10:52] <BrainDamage> it's kinda impressive that internet-only fenomenas are starting to affect RL more & more
[10:52] <Upu> anyway going to try a live broadcast from my car shortly
[10:52] <Upu> it won't be very exciting
[10:52] <Upu> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/avatest2
[10:53] <Laurenceb> me thinks military contractors realised they could exploit the basement dwelling tards to increased funding
[10:57] Nick change: mazzanet_ -> mazzanet
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[11:10] <SamSilver> bbl
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[11:32] <cuddykid> anyone used google sketch up before? thinking of using it to create model of glider I want to build
[11:33] <russss> it's pretty good.
[11:36] <cuddykid> is it hard to use?
[11:46] <russss> easier than most other CAD programs
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[11:54] <cuddykid> cool thanks russss
[12:06] <Upu> well live streaming is a fail the ustream app dies if you try stream when on 3G
[12:08] <cuddykid> can never get a clean upload with ustream on 3G :(
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[15:10] <SamSilver> Upu: did you do the live streaming?
[15:12] <Upu> nah
[15:12] <Upu> Ustream won't stream via 3G
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[15:12] <Upu> it just shuts down
[15:12] <Upu> fine on wireless
[15:12] <Upu> tried to jailbreak it to fix it but got bored in the end and gave up
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[15:13] <SamSilver> bummer
[15:13] <Upu> silly network restrictions on data
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[15:17] <mixio> ping fsphil
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[15:20] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
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[15:22] <Dan-K2VOL1> Upu it streams fine for me on iphone 4 on 3G
[15:22] <Upu> Just shuts down if I'm on 3G
[15:22] <Upu> fine on wireless
[15:22] <Upu> can't seem to fix it
[15:23] <Dan-K2VOL1> sounds like a problem, have you deleted and reinstalled it?
[15:23] <Upu> tried Ustream app and Ustream Broadcaster
[15:23] <Upu> yeah
[15:23] <Dan-K2VOL1> And rebooted the phone?
[15:23] <Upu> yeah a few times
[15:23] <Dan-K2VOL1> :-(
[15:23] <Upu> jail broke it
[15:23] <Dan-K2VOL1> Good grief that's a drastic step
[15:23] <Upu> installed a hooky copy of My3G still doesn't work
[15:24] <Upu> well just trying to prove if it was the 3G
[15:24] <Dan-K2VOL1> Well if you're willing to go that far, you might as well just do a restore
[15:24] <Upu> next step :)
[15:24] <Dan-K2VOL1> Any updates available for ustream?
[15:24] <Upu> nope :)
[15:24] <Upu> never mind would have been nice but not essential
[15:25] <Dan-K2VOL1> Sorry no help, good luck
[15:25] <Dan-K2VOL1> Justin.tv is good for streaming too
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[15:43] <SpeedEvil> Some people have better parties than me.
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> Was just talking to the Tesco delivery driver as he dropped off my shopping.
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> (of which the highlight was 2 pineapples and a box of mango)
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> Next delivery is 950Kg of alcohol.
[15:44] <SamSilver> oooh you would sleep well if that was yours
[15:45] <SamSilver> well I would anyway!
[15:45] <fsphil> rocket fuel
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> Don't actually drink (alcohol).
[15:51] mattltm-alt (~mattltm-a@mail.icm2.org.uk) left irc:
[15:52] <cuddykid> :O 950kg?!?!?!
[15:52] <cuddykid> wow
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> That's getting close to the actual weight limit of the van.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> And all for 4 quid.
[15:52] <cuddykid> £4 whattttt?!
[15:53] <cuddykid> is this the CEO of tesco or something? lol
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> delivery charge
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> Not total order total - which I suspect may be more.
[15:53] <cuddykid> oh, thought it was £4 for 950kg! lol
[15:54] <cuddykid> you'd have thought the person would've gone to the company or tried to get it cheaper in bulk than through tescos
[15:57] <fsphil> they might have
[15:58] <cuddykid> possibly
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> Maybe a typo.
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> 555 bottles of cider turning up.
[16:04] <fsphil> pong mixio
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[16:05] <cgddrd> hi guys
[16:05] <cuddykid> quite possibly, remember when we 1st used tesco online many many years back, ordered about 5Kg of bananas by accident lol
[16:05] <cuddykid> hi cgddrd
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> I think I ordered 8Kg of banannas this time.
[16:06] <cgddrd> I'm a student and I could do with a bit of advice about connecting a PICAXE 18X to a RadioMetrix NTX2? Can anyone give me a hand please ha?
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> 3Kg in the fridge, and 5Kg unripe.
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> One or two a day, and it adds up.
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> Hi cgddrd
[16:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> I can't help, much as I'm not familiar with either but welcome.
[16:09] <cgddrd> Ahh ok Dan-K2VOL1, thankyou anyway :)
[16:10] Nick change: Snomi -> PlayULow
[16:10] Nick change: PlayULow -> Snomi
[16:12] <nickolai89> not sure if this'll help cgddrd, but here's upu's guide to connecting an arduino with ntx2
[16:12] <nickolai89> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=101
[16:12] <cgddrd> I'm trying to figure how to trasmit GPS data from a Lassen IQ gps chip, out to a Radio Mterix NTX2 chip, using a PICAXE 18X, but i am struggling with figuring out how to connect the NTX2 to the PICAXE. Don't suppose anyone has had experinece in this?
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[16:12] <cgddrd> Thankyou nickolai89
[16:12] <nickolai89> no problem
[16:13] <nickolai89> hey what kind of antennas do people normally use with transmitters like the ntx2?
[16:13] <cgddrd> We are just using an SMA connection antenna..
[16:14] <cgddrd> this works fine however it is important not to use the reverse sma connection, as this does not work...
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[16:14] <fsphil> any connection should work as long as both are the same type?
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[16:16] <nickolai89> seeing as im not very familiar with antennas, what are the characteristics of the one you're using?
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[16:17] <cgddrd> We basically just had a standard 3 pin sma connector connected to the ntx2, then we got a sma to sma cable, and cut off one end to allow a simple "drop down" antenna
[16:17] <fsphil> the 1/4 wave vertical seems to be the most popular choice
[16:17] <cgddrd> sorry yes 1/4 wave is what we used..
[16:18] <nickolai89> ok, thanks
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[16:18] <cgddrd> no worries
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[16:21] <fsphil> cgddrd, there are guides to connecting avr or arduino systems to the ntx2 -- should basically be the same for picaxe
[16:22] <fsphil> though it depends on how you are intending to receive the signal
[16:23] <cgddrd> Ok, thankyou fsphil
[16:23] <fsphil> Upu, has one here: http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=101
[16:23] <cgddrd> Thankyou
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[16:35] <Upu> I put it up on the UKHAS wiki too http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[16:42] <nickolai89> hey upu do you normally make pcbs for your electronics?
[16:42] <Upu> hi nickolai89 no first time for me :)
[16:42] <nickolai89> how did you go about it? i looked at some softwarre for making pcbs a while ago and the cost per unit was going to be something like $200
[16:43] <BrainDamage> you can order pcb from fab services for few $ nowdays, inc shipping
[16:43] <BrainDamage> like 10$/pcb, or better
[16:43] <Upu> Eagle CAD http://www.cadsoft.de/freeware.htm and got them made at Olimex
[16:44] <Upu> http://www.olimex.com/pcb/index.html
[16:44] <Upu> Eagle is a bit nasty to use initially
[16:46] <nickolai89> does olimex ship to us?
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[16:48] <Upu> I would imagine so but you'll be able to get them done in the US I'm sure
[16:49] <Dan-K2VOL1> nickolai89 how fast do you want them done?
[16:50] <nickolai89> i dunno, fast i suppose. say... a week?
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[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL1> You'll pay lots more for 1 week as opposed to 1 month
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL1> Probably 10x as much actually
[16:53] <nickolai89> o
[16:53] <nickolai89> maybe i can just skip the pcb then, even if i end up with a jumble of wires
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> 4pcb.com is what I use for 1 week turnarounds, but that runs usually about $100 for 5 copies
[16:54] <nickolai89> it would look so much nicer with a pcb but it seems like loads of extra money and effort
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> If you can stand a month, seeedstudio it'll cost you about $15 for 10 copies
[16:54] <nickolai89> hm
[16:54] Nick change: dspstv_ -> kdag
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> I recommend a PCB, it increases reliability and eases troubleshooting
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> if it's simple, you could just do it yourself
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> The etching
[16:55] <nickolai89> i've heard of that... homemade pcbs...
[16:56] <nickolai89> i'll look into that a bit more, thanks!
[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL1> It takes patience, but you can do it
[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL1> Expect to try 4 or 5 times before you get good at making your own
[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL1> You're welcome
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[17:23] <SamSilver> g'night all
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[17:29] <Upu> It's outrageous that #LulzSec plan to release the census details online instead of through the official method: On a laptop left on a train.
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[17:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[18:04] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
[18:04] <Camer0n> hello
[18:04] <Camer0n> I am part of a school project to send a balloon to space, I have created a predicted location (we will have a proper tracker but we don't want to make this location public!) that shows some informaiton when you click the II icon. I was wondering if there would be a way to predict the size of the balloon while it is ascending before it pops, how would i work this out? Thanks!
[18:06] <Camer0n> I have been using the predictor at habhub to generate the long/lats
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> their is, yes.
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> there
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> that
[18:20] <Camer0n> ah thank you!!
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> What year of school?
[18:21] <Camer0n> 9
[18:21] <Camer0n> http://www.projectstratos.com - the website I made
[18:22] <Camer0n> its "space club" and we decided to send a balloon to space
[18:22] <Camer0n> http://www.projectstratos.com/map.php - the map should be quite good when it's done
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> 14 then?
[18:22] <Camer0n> yeah
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> Done anything electronics related?
[18:22] <Camer0n> not me
[18:22] <Camer0n> a sixth former did that
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> ah - what's your involvement?
[18:23] <Camer0n> website maily (took ages, I wrote it from scratch) and a few other things like checking the weather etc.
[18:24] <Camer0n> we've got £1000 from BT and £650 from IBM
[18:24] <Camer0n> we have the "worlds smallest tracker"!
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> That's really decent funding.
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> It's probably not.
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> What sort of tracker is it?
[18:25] <Camer0n> gps/gprs/radio
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[18:25] <SpeedEvil> What sort of radio?
[18:25] <Camer0n> umm i don't know
[18:25] <Camer0n> http://www.trackaphone.eu/ is their site
[18:27] <Camer0n> on the burst calculator what is the balloon mass? does it mean the balloon on its own?
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> Exactly what one is important I guess.
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> I think so
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> GSM will usually stop working at 1-500m
[18:27] <Camer0n> well we only need it for when we recover it
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> Which means that you may have under a minute as the balloon descends to get a message with the position out.
[18:27] <Camer0n> we have a balloon specialist helping us! :D
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> And if it doesn't get GSM lock, and the position sent during that time, it can land in a reception hollow, and you're screwed.
[18:28] <Camer0n> we have a radio one which apparently you use a wand with and it sends coords
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> This is why we've generally gravitated to low-power radio transmitters that broadcast the position continually.
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Which works really well.
[18:30] <Camer0n> yes
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[18:40] <Laurenceb_> interesting - lsm303dlh magno is running at 120 hz
[18:41] <cuddykid> Camer0n, very impressed with website at your age! Excellent funding too, but as SpeedEvil says, have a look into low powered radio (I'm sure someone can interface it), it will benefit your chances of recovery hugely
[18:42] <cuddykid> ahh, just seen RocketBoy is helping you, he knows better than me so you're in safe hands!
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Problem is that GPS+GSM solutions will fall off the net at 500m - so you then have to rely on the predictor, and them coming back online in order to get close enough to pick up the radio on the ground
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Oh - good - missed that.
[18:43] <cuddykid> fantastic funding though
[18:44] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A07F2D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:49] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Can you hear me?
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> hmm bmp085 is seeing std of 0.27m rms
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> datasheet says 0.25m, so i guess im happy
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> what does it mean Laurenceb_?
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:57] <kristianpaul> http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/en-historique5.htm
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> np: Queen - Under Pressure.
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> lol matching
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> rms is root mean square?
[18:58] <kristianpaul> dont think so
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:59] MoALTz_ (~no@host-92-8-149-188.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb_ what is 0.27m rms?
[18:59] <kristianpaul> :o
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> The pressure reading from his pressure sensor is leading to an altitude variation of 0.27m RMS
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> Due to noise.
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> that
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> After he remembered how to use pointers.
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> lol
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> Is that all of the sensors on the board working?
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> so your error is 27 centimeters due to noise?
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> the pitot needs more tests - it may be a little too noisey, but it has twice the sensitivity i previously thought
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> Lunar_Lander: per sample
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> its running at 40samples/sec
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> and one sample is one reading?
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[19:03] <Laurenceb_> my lsm magno is actually running at ~120hz
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> datasheet says 'at least 75hz'
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> it fluctuates a little with temperature :S
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> that is 120 samples/sec then?
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> im guessing RC oscillator
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> yes
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[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> what will it do?
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> will it be a magnetic compass?
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> It provides the direction of the magnetic field
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> So in combination with gyros and accelleration, you have a fairly accurate idea of where down is, and what direction you're pointing.
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> because we had it that we can't really measure the variation of Earth's magnetic field with altitude, right?
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> (Given your position on the globe)
[19:07] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> The best accels will actually noticably vary over the course of a flight.
[19:08] neppox (~phil@client124.amh.kn.studentenwohnheim-bw.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Due to altitude.
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> best MEMs
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> accelerometers?
[19:08] <neppox> hi
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> g decreases slightly
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> To measure 1km difference, you need to be able to sense 2/6000 change
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> I wonder if there is any way to measure the decrease in g
[19:08] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:10] <neppox> hi guys, I'm wondering, could anyone tell how accurate the predictor on the site is?
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/21/nokia-n9-first-hands-on/
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> If you enter +-1 hour from the launch site, as well as a couple of positions close to it, and the outcome doesn't change much - it's likely to be a stable prediction.
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> better than n900?
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> That means - your balloon is not close to any rapid changes of weather.
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> The closer to teh launch you do the prediction, the better it gets.
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> If you can have telemetry during the flight, it gets really good.
[19:12] <neppox> thank you
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> As it means that you are reliant on the predictor only for the last - say - 3km.
[19:12] <Camer0n> sorry, I've been out
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> So you have a search elipse of - sometimes - 300m*1000m or so.
[19:13] <Camer0n> who's RocketBoy?
[19:13] <Camer0n> cuddykid?
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> If you run the predictor at launch - then you may have an error of 20-30km.
[19:13] <neppox> great so if there are no great changes between predictions I can be certain about the rough direction and range?
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> Fairly.
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> But generally only if you run the predictor right before launch.
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> Predictions made a week in advance are at best a rough guess.
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> They will sometimes be surprisingly accurate - but...
[19:14] <neppox> i can live with that :)
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: yeah - I've applied for the devkit device.
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: will see how it goes.
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: and it's vastly different.
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: The n900 was positioned as a domputer, not just a phone - in some ways. The n900 is very much phone first.
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Some aspects are annoying. No replaceable battery. (easily) No microSD.
[19:16] <neppox> do you think, i should research the winddata through an other source? just to decide whether to start now or to wait for another - less windy - day?
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> The predictor has been fairly reliable.
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> btw SpeedEvil and Laurenceb_ I got myself "Rocket Exploration of the Upper Atmosphere" by interlibrary loan, it is a quite interesting read
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> ILL is awesome.
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> the usage of the V2 in the USA and the various research topics
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> I got Sutton from it.
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> and an article by Van Allen about Rockoons
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil I plan to get the IGY Rocket Report series in the next months
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> maybe it has some interesting info for balloons
[19:19] <neppox> Thank You SpeedEvil, one last question about the predictor, I'm sitting in south germany is that a probolem, or should the predictor for any location?
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> oh hi neppox
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> I'm from northern germany
[19:19] <neppox> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> It's worked OK for people in .au, .ca and I think .sa
[19:19] <neppox> where exactly?
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> There was a .za launch wasn't there?
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> are you in connection with the imminent launch at Friedrichshafen?
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> neppox Osnabrueck
[19:20] <neppox> no
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:20] <neppox> where launching near ulm
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> I was at the Ham Radio last year
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> but I couldn't go this year unfortunately
[19:22] <neppox> I'm really new to the whole thing
[19:22] <neppox> so I wasn't there ;)
[19:22] <neppox> either
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> brb
[19:25] <neppox> just dug up this guy: swisshab.blogspot.com predictor didn't work very well for him but I guess he didn't check right before the launch
[19:26] <fsphil> I've seen the predictions change completely within a day -- they don't usually settle until a day or two before
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> that might be
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil is right
[19:27] <fsphil> I've announced a few launches only to have the later predictions landing on the ocean :)
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> I once did like predictions every 10 minutes towards the end of an hour
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> the landing point oscillates around a bit
[19:27] <fsphil> the last one though was fine even a week before, it didn't change a huge amount
[19:28] <neppox> thats good news since the prediction for my first start isn't too great
[19:28] <fsphil> I guess sometimes the weather is more predictable than other times
[19:28] <neppox> i'd like to avoid the alps
[19:28] <fsphil> or the predictor just got lucky
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> neppox: You don't like climbing?
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> Skiing is fun!
[19:28] <fsphil> yes, avoiding mountains is good :) esp. mountains with forests :)
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> Trees however do provide a convenient way of knowing where your balloon will land.
[19:29] <Upu> neither of which fsphil is good at avoiding
[19:29] <neppox> usually I do, but this project is for the university so I'd like to maximise sucess probability and minimise time
[19:29] <fsphil> I avoided the lake district Upu :)
[19:29] <Upu> this much was true but not through choice :)
[19:29] <neppox> :)
[19:30] <Upu> hi neppox
[19:30] <neppox> hi Upu
[19:30] <Upu> +/- 5km I understand if you didn't get an answer to your question
[19:30] <neppox> I did, thanks anyway
[19:30] <hibby> more students
[19:30] <hibby> good grief
[19:31] <hibby> :p
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[19:31] <neppox> sorry to disappoint ;)
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi hibby Upu
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> 5536779
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> oops
[19:31] <Upu> talking of which we ironed out the chase car tracker iphone app
[19:31] <fsphil> woo, password
[19:31] <Upu> password for what ?
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> paypal one-time
[19:31] <Upu> yeah yeah :)
[19:32] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/tracker/ click path , that now updates every 30s and back grounds
[19:32] <fsphil> ooh all working well Upu? I was using dl-fldigi's chase car thing last time, seemed to work well though I'm not sure how
[19:32] <Upu> yeah see my drive home from work
[19:32] <Upu> I'll see if we can't get it on the app store
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:33] <Camer0n> SpeedEvil, do you know who RocketBoy is?
[19:33] <neppox> Lunar_Lander, do you know anything about the guys in friedrichshafen? I'd like to talk to them
[19:33] <Camer0n> apparently he has been helping our project
[19:33] <Camer0n> the only person helping us is Mr. Randall, is that him?
[19:33] <fsphil> what's doubly cool is that with google satellite view, I can actually see your car Upu :)
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> yes I did meet them neppox
[19:33] <fsphil> Camer0n, yea Steve Randall is RocketBoy
[19:34] <Camer0n> cool
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> I can ask the one of them if I can give you his E-Mail address
[19:34] <Camer0n> I'm gonna tell him on thursday
[19:34] <Camer0n> does he come here often?
[19:34] <Upu> its the wifes van that
[19:34] <fsphil> fairly regular, but not for long
[19:34] <Camer0n> although he doesn't know me personally
[19:34] <fsphil> aaah
[19:34] <Upu> if you put it on street view you can see me in my old Audi A3
[19:34] <neppox> thanks, its just out of curiosity
[19:34] <fsphil> good picture, our town is not as well covered
[19:35] <fsphil> ah don't have flash installed
[19:35] <fsphil> trying to live without it :)
[19:35] <Upu> fsphil http://goo.gl/maps/kzUi moi :)
[19:36] <Upu> just seeing if we can get the app on the app store
[19:36] <Upu> We can get it on Cydia fairly quickly
[19:37] <neppox> btw a big thank you, for the stuff in the wiki already learned a lot about things I didn't even think of before
[19:38] <Upu> Wiki is great
[19:41] <hibby> neppox: 'sfine, I was supervising a group of ours that were doing balloon experiments
[19:42] <Dan-K2VOL1> Hibby, you should come with us to MakerFaire Detroit July 30-31
[19:42] <hibby> oooh
[19:42] Action: hibby will likely have a car too
[19:43] <hibby> food... back later
[19:43] <Dan-K2VOL1> Nice! And we plan on sharing cars too, if you want to join, it's about a 6 hour drive from here or Cincinnati
[19:43] <fsphil> yikes
[19:43] <Dan-K2VOL1> Cool, ttyl
[19:44] <Dan-K2VOL1> Oh you lucky islanders fsphil, but that is the limit of my tolerance for a weekend trip
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello Dan-K2VOL1
[19:45] <fsphil> planning a trip to Edinburgh later in the year, though I'm not driving it'll be the longest distance I've done in a car
[19:45] <Dan-K2VOL1> Hi Lunar_Lander
[19:45] <Dan-K2VOL1> How far will that be?
[19:46] <Dan-K2VOL1> I'm so envious of trains over there
[19:46] <fsphil> about 300km I think
[19:47] <fsphil> there is a train from where we're landing in the ferry, but the plan is to drive instead
[19:47] <Dan-K2VOL1> There used to be trains going all the places I go here& the auto and aviation industry used politics and marketing to put them out of business
[19:47] <fsphil> will be stopping in the forest park with the uk's darkest skies -- gonna bring a small scope
[19:47] <Dan-K2VOL1> Oh nice phil!
[19:48] <fsphil> the train service in NI is pretty awful, it's much better in GB
[19:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> ah
[19:48] <fsphil> though expensive
[19:48] <fsphil> it's often cheaper to fly
[19:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> I have to say most of my familiarity with the UK trains comes from old sherlock holmes movies :-P
[19:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> Interesting
[19:49] <fsphil> I love the london underground - I don't think the city would function without it
[19:49] <fsphil> really simple system too
[19:50] <Dan-K2VOL1> it really makes sense, a very efficient way to move massive amounts of people
[19:50] <Dan-K2VOL1> I look forward to trying it someday
[19:52] <fsphil> the most mice I've ever seen in one place too :) though the last few times I was over I didn't see nearly as many
[19:52] <Dan-K2VOL1> hahah oh boy, in the station or train
[19:53] <fsphil> on the tracks
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> Oh interesting! That reminded me of the dogs that supposedly ride the Moscow subway
[19:53] <mattltm> I done some work on the underground. The Rats are the biggest I have ever seen!
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> Ugh
[19:53] <fsphil> I was looking out for rats, didn't spot any
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> What did you do mattlrm
[19:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> oops mattltm
[19:54] <mattltm> I was an industrial abseiler for a few years. The underground work was jet washing vent shafts. The rats would climb up the ropes.
[19:54] <mattltm> http://www.can.ltd.uk/structures/index.asp
[19:55] <Dan-K2VOL1> Holy (*&#^$ up the ropes
[19:55] <fsphil> eek!
[19:55] <mattltm> Yup. they would run right pasy you and up to the top.
[19:55] <mattltm> Fearless
[19:56] <fsphil> yea the mice where fearless too -- didn't even react when the trains went past at full speed
[19:56] <Dan-K2VOL1> Guess there's a pretty strong environmental selection pressure for braving the noise to get the cheese
[19:56] <mattltm> One of my teams jobs.... http://www.can.ltd.uk/structures/photographs/cleaning2.jpg
[19:56] <Dan-K2VOL1> Nice mattltm!
[19:57] <fsphil> sweeeet
[19:57] <mattltm> Days are gone now though. It knackers your body very quick!
[19:57] <mattltm> My team also droped the london eye :)
[19:58] <mattltm> Well, we got it stuck when it was raised then droped it about 10'!
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> hello mattltm
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL1> I bet, I knew a window washer here in the states who used a bosun's chair to do tall skycrapers, he'd swing back and forth wetting with one swing, and squeegee dry on the swing back
[19:58] <mattltm> Its fun for a while :)
[19:58] <fsphil> That's a big beastie that eye -- I doesn't look that big when you see it on TV, but standing underneath it was quite impressive
[19:59] <Dan-K2VOL1> Neat
[19:59] <mattltm> fsphil: standing on top with only a 11mm rope between you and the Thames is fun :P
[20:00] <mattltm> I got thrown off that job :(
[20:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> What did you do for that matt
[20:00] <fsphil> I've not got a head for heights
[20:00] <fsphil> but I'd still like to try it just the once
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> Thrown off, with or without the 11mm rope?
[20:01] <mattltm> Anyone remember the protesters that climbed the eye when it first went up?
[20:01] WillDuckworth (56840bad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.132.11.173) joined #highaltitude.
[20:01] <mattltm> I was still working on it and got caught giving one of them a cup of tea!
[20:02] <fsphil> that's not fair
[20:02] <Dan-K2VOL1> Haha
[20:02] <fsphil> even protesters need a cup of tea!
[20:03] <fsphil> heck maybe that's why they went up .. "Hey, that guy up there. He has tea!!" "Get the ropes!"
[20:03] <mattltm> Oh well. It was almost as fun as the time I nearly got shot at the Palace :)
[20:04] <mattltm> But thats a story for a launch meeting :)
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:05] Action: Laurenceb_ went on the anti iraq war demo
[20:06] Action: mattltm was there in an official role for another employer :)
[20:06] <fsphil> Demos -- another thing I'd like to do. They don't demo here, they just riot. And that's no fun
[20:06] <Laurenceb_> and had an argument with some islamic extremists from al al-aksa martars brigade :P
[20:06] <mattltm> Yay! :P
[20:07] <Laurenceb_> mattltm: your a riot policeman?
[20:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> Speaking of sticking it to the man, anyone around here ever do any chip failure analysis or reverse engineering?
[20:08] Action: Laurenceb_ makes note to avoid mentioning any illegal activities on the channel
[20:08] <NigeyS> my chips always fail when i dip them in gravy :p
[20:09] <Laurenceb_> you need to recognise the two different sorts
[20:09] <fsphil> the follow up analysis is always tasty though
[20:09] <mattltm> My epassport had a small "chip failuer" :p
[20:09] <NigeyS> lol
[20:09] <Dan-K2VOL1> Nigeys hello lol
[20:09] <fsphil> I must check my passport for rfid
[20:10] <NigeyS> hey dan :D
[20:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> Fsphil, your microwave oven can find it easily
[20:13] <mattltm> I wouldnt put it in the microwave!
[20:13] <mattltm> Its an offence to intentialy damage a passport.
[20:14] Action: Laurenceb_ just ordered £2K of kitchen parts :-S
[20:14] <Laurenceb_> hope i made the right choices
[20:14] <Dan-K2VOL1> Ah lol true, don't do that
[20:14] <mattltm> Acidently dropping a rubber mallet on it repeatdly does the job and leaves no visable damage, so I have been told :p
[20:14] <Dan-K2VOL1> RFID is great, and will someday be done in a secure manner
[20:15] <mattltm> Funny, I was just reaserching some RFID..
[20:15] <mattltm> http://www.touchatag.com/e-store
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> didn't you think about an RFID network of thermosensors Dan-K2VOL1?
[20:15] <mattltm> The London hackspace uses that to control their door..
[20:15] <mattltm> http://wiki.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/Doorbot
[20:15] <mattltm> Cute :)
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> Just put a sheet of foil either side
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> job done.
[20:16] <Dan-K2VOL1> yeah Lunar_Lander, that's one of my personal projects, I acutally am the R&D manager of a small company that is getting into reverse engineering of ICs
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> You dropping acid Dan-K2VOL1?
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> I thought you want to use it on WhiteStar
[20:17] <Dan-K2VOL1> Haha speedevil, indeed we are
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL1: 'getting into' = just looking at via microscope? Or more exotic?
[20:18] <Dan-K2VOL1> Not whitestar, the RFID thermosensors I was thinking of making wouldnd really be practical in a balloon I don't think, will require a high power field
[20:18] <Dan-K2VOL1> Speedevil, getting into as in building a lab to get firmware out of chips
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:20] <BrainDamage> ofc for the noble reason to fill doc & retrocompatibility, not for commercial spionage
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> Dan-K2VOL1: fun.
[20:20] <fsphil> I'd love there to be a company that could remake old classic ICs. I'd love to replace some of the chips in my C64 without having to destroy another :)
[20:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> That's a neat idea fsphil, you could easily do that with small FPGAs
[20:21] <fsphil> aah fpga's seem like a lot of fun
[20:22] <fsphil> bit over my head though - I was looking as some fpga code the other day, it's .. different
[20:22] <mattltm> http://status.pinboard.in/
[20:22] <mattltm> Raided by FBI!
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> VHDL and verilog is interesting
[20:24] <hibby> fsphil: taking the long way to edinburgh?
[20:25] <fsphil> indeedy
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[20:25] <fsphil> going to galloway forest park first, then driving to the capital
[20:25] <hibby> nice
[20:25] <hibby> taking radio kit?
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> btw fsphil
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> did you finally get it out of the tree?
[20:25] <fsphil> hibby, certainly :)
[20:26] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL1: I'm in the states for 9 weeks... how likely is it I can (quickly) get some sort of license
[20:26] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, not yet - I'm unable to get back at the moment
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL1> Hibby, very easy
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL1> do you have one already?
[20:27] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL1: what level?
[20:27] <hibby> got one, aye, but not one that is reciprocally favoured elsewhere
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[20:28] <hibby> friend of mine was over for ~6 months a while ago, and got an extra and persuaded our lot to swap it for a full license here
[20:28] <hibby> and seeing as I'm having serious trouble getting any sort of exam to upgrade my license, it's an attractive idea
[20:29] <Dan-K2VOL1> You can take any of the exams here, they're offered often, you can take tech, general or extra just by showing up and paying the fee
[20:31] <hibby> nice. Don't need to take, say, a tech first to let me do the general/extra, do i?
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL1> no
[20:31] <hibby> sweet
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL1> You can take the extra and just get it
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL1> I believe
[20:32] <Dan-K2VOL1> It's been a while though since I did my exams on that
[20:32] <fsphil> now why don't they do that here
[20:33] <hibby> you need an appreciation of it, or something
[20:34] <Dan-K2VOL1> heh
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[20:43] <hibby> looks like you need to do the technician->general->extra
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL1> Aw sorry
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL1> But I know they let you do them all in one sitting
[20:45] <hibby> yeah, thats what I surmised
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL1> I remember the test proctor encouraging me to take the extra when I was in for the general, just to see if I could pass it on a whim
[20:46] <hibby> its a total pain to get a license in the uk
[20:46] <Dan-K2VOL1> Huh that's interesting
[20:46] <hibby> they actually "forgot" to post ot my papers for my last exam
[20:46] <hibby> even though we gave them 3 weeks notice to do it
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[20:47] <hibby> and the full license exams are only allowed to be taken on certain dates.
[20:47] <hibby> and it costs a ton... my lastnon event was ££40 to the rsgb
[20:57] <mattltm> Wow the London hack space is busy! http://london.hackspace.org.uk/webcams.html
[21:00] <chris_99> i like the movable webcams
[21:00] <mattltm> Yes, very nice.
[21:01] <fsphil> peoples!
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[21:05] <jiffe> anyone know of a cheap radio/tnc that will give me aprs packets via serial/usb ?
[21:07] <ruku> What's the upper limit?
[21:07] <ruku> I've got a Yaesu VX-8R...
[21:07] <jiffe> well I can get a kenwood for 300, I was looking for cheaper than that
[21:07] <ruku> The Yaesu was ~300 usd.
[21:08] <ruku> Though I'm sure you could find something else given you already have a radio
[21:08] <ruku> We had an addon that hooked into the audio system I think...
[21:08] <jiffe> I don't have a radio yet so if I need to get a separate tnc then thats fine I guess
[21:09] <ruku> tekk-radios.com?
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[21:37] <Laurenceb_> if it was higher res you could play count the arduinos
[21:45] <ruku> <_< nothing's wrong with avr's...
[21:45] <ruku> I only have three or four on my system.
[21:45] <ruku> Or five or six.
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> lulwut
[21:46] <ruku> I keep telling myself, I need to learn how to use other microcontrollers
[21:46] <ruku> and implement other ICs in my designs
[21:46] Action: Laurenceb_ uses stm32
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[21:46] <ruku> and then time is like hurr hurr no.
[21:47] <ruku> though I have a stm32 discovery board
[22:05] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb_: what are you using from the smt32, any sppecial GPS BB module? :-D
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> kristianpaul: fsa03
[22:09] <kristianpaul> bah, that worst thatn cheeat ;)
[22:10] <kristianpaul> moment
[22:10] <kristianpaul> what's UBX Binary?
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[22:11] <kristianpaul> oh, is navigation data?
[22:11] <kristianpaul> cool if it is
[22:11] <Laurenceb_> yes
[22:11] <kristianpaul> but seems propietry UBX sounds like UBLOX...
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> code is up there - ubx is open
[22:13] <kristianpaul> :o
[22:13] <kristianpaul> cheers !
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[22:23] Action: Laurenceb_ zzzz
[22:24] <kristianpaul> ha, i wish i can /me that :-)
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[22:35] <ruku> Anyone have a good way of reading a ton of sensors?
[22:37] <ruku> multiplexers? :x
[22:44] <hibby> multiplexer/basic addressing system could work
[22:44] <hibby> onewire sensors help in that regard
[22:45] <hibby> as 1-wire stuff are all individually adressed
[22:46] <ruku> yeah, but they usually run nasty 15 V programming spikes and stuff, right?
[22:46] <hibby> dunno, we ran 3 at 5v without any bother in the last launch
[22:46] <hibby> dallas 18b20 temperature sensors
[22:46] <ruku> what exactly can you do if you have negative voltages in your range?
[22:47] <ruku> do you just put AGND at your negative end, or something?
[22:47] <hibby> or you could involve some sort of op amp to ensure it's always +ve, i guess
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[22:48] <hibby> op amp theory is a bit rusty
[22:48] <ruku> I've seen that...
[22:48] <ruku> get a dual supply analog mux and run it through one of those...
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[23:05] <SpeedEvil> ruku: Or you don't - and use I2C sensors
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> ruku: what sort of sensors?
[23:05] <ruku> I've got at least 8 that are analog and there's no changing that...
[23:06] <ruku> because that's the sensor we're supposed to test <_<
[23:06] <ruku> swings +/- 2 V
[23:06] <ruku> approximately 50 Hz or less
[23:09] <hibby> ruku: could offset it so it swings 0-4 or 1-5V
[23:09] <ruku> eight op amps at a minimum x-x
[23:09] <ruku> I found a sweet chip that maxim makes...
[23:10] <ruku> that's like $20 bucks
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> ...
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> Three resisors per channel, and a micro with an 8 channel ADC
[23:18] <ruku> blah. I'm being too picky about these things ><
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[23:24] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> Maplin 'Festival favourite' email.
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> First up - 3.8m telescopic ladder.
[23:31] <ruku> What do you guys use for pressure sensors?
[23:31] <ruku> Everyone seems to be using the MPX4115A but that doesn't go to "zero"...
[00:00] --- Wed Jun 22 2011