highaltitude.log.20110615

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[04:45] <Darkside> hey
[04:45] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/gallery/2011-06-15_MiniNut_PCBs/
[04:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
[04:47] <SpeedEvil> http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2011/may/energy-bill-have-your-say/guidance-on-submitting-evidence-to-a-pbc/
[04:47] <SpeedEvil> argh
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[06:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Worcester Radio Amateurs Association "[UKHAS] HABE Launch"
[06:56] <Darkside> grrrrrrr
[06:56] <Darkside> cant progream my atmega
[06:56] <Darkside> its saying the reset line is cincorrectly pulled up
[06:57] <Darkside> but i have a 10k pullup, and i'm reading 3v on the reset line
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[07:26] <Randomskk> it might be pulled up too strongly
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[10:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Re: Patch antennae? Re: interesting item on ebay?"
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[10:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Other materials to make a balloon out of?"
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[10:46] <chris_99> astrobiology sounds an awesome job :)
[11:00] <x-f> astrobiology sounds like something impossible (for our current knowledge) :)
[11:03] <chris_99> couldn't growing stuff in the ISS count
[11:16] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Other materials to make a balloon out of?"
[11:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch antennae? Re: interesting item on ebay?"
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[12:04] <simhed> hiya
[12:05] <eroomde> greetings simhed
[12:05] <simhed> can anyone remember if there was any project that used arduino + lassen iq + ntx2? i'm having problems with the code and trying to find someone who could help me
[12:07] <simhed> i remember cuddykid was working on a kit like that, but i think he did not finish..
[12:12] <eroomde> i think there have been various like that
[12:12] <eroomde> what sort of problems are you having?
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[12:48] <simhed> i'm not really experienced with programming arduino, so it's a kind of big deal for me to write the script in general
[12:48] <simhed> to get the GPS coordinates and transmit them over the radio
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[12:52] <simhed> that's why i'm trying to find a preexisting script to match my hardware
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[13:09] <griffonbot> Received email: steamfire@gmail.com "Re: [UKHAS] Other materials to make a balloon out of?"
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[13:10] <SpeedEvil> I keep meaning to do a foil balloon.
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> VEry thin kitchen foil is readily available
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[13:21] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: how would you do the seams?
[13:22] <eroomde> cos in pricipal ali balloons would be very interesting, but i would worry about crack propagation and seams
[13:22] <fsphil> cling film?
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I had good results with a hair-fine thread of hot-melt, ironed flat.
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> It seemed stable even in the freezer.
[13:25] <eroomde> but would it hold up to super pressure or are we talking just zp?
[13:25] <Laurenceb> but surely if theres the slightest error then there will be way too much stress in one place
[13:25] <Laurenceb> massive stress concentration
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> ZP
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[13:26] <SpeedEvil> I don't think superpressure is possible without precision cutting
[13:29] <Darkside> guys
[13:29] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/gallery/2011-06-14_Vaisala_G_Series_DigiSonde/
[13:30] <SpeedEvil> neat!
[13:30] <Darkside> parachute *inside* the balloon!
[13:34] <eroomde> cheeky!
[13:42] <Darkside> mm
[13:42] <Darkside> it worked well tho
[13:42] <Darkside> but you need to have a guaranteed clean burst, else it won't work
[13:42] <eroomde> yes indeed
[13:42] <Laurenceb> seems interesting
[13:42] <eroomde> that's mainly why i said 'cheeky!' rather than 'inspired!'
[13:42] <Laurenceb> is it fixed to top of balloon
[13:43] <Darkside> those dry-cell payloads are quite a bit heavier than the wet-cell ones
[13:43] <Darkside> Laurenceb: don't know, we didn't find the rest of the balloon
[13:43] <Laurenceb> oh you found it
[13:43] <Laurenceb> cool
[13:43] <Laurenceb> hang on did you launch it?
[13:43] <Darkside> they launch one a day from mt gambier, down south of adelaide
[13:44] <Darkside> this is a met balloon
[13:44] <Laurenceb> ah
[13:44] Action: Laurenceb just remembered ublox altitude is in mm
[13:44] <Laurenceb> explains why my ekf thought i was in space
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[13:50] <fsphil> newbie question: a ZP balloon is call that because the pressure inside is the same as outside?
[13:51] <eroomde> yes
[13:52] <fsphil> so they 'unfold' as the external pressure drops, rather than expand
[13:52] <eroomde> yup
[13:52] <fsphil> gotcha, thanks
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[14:01] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/user/Raven672
[14:01] <Laurenceb> autonomous flyingwings v-trainer
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[14:20] <kristianpaul> plop
[14:20] <kristianpaul> hi SpeedEvil
[14:20] <kristianpaul> oh, dspstv_ !
[14:21] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: hi
[14:21] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: SpeedEvil told me you had been playing with some "raw" gps frontends. maxim perhaps?
[14:21] <kristianpaul> i wonder the specs of you correlator implementation
[14:21] <kristianpaul> it was software or hardware?
[14:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch antennae? Re: interesting item on ebay?"
[14:26] <Laurenceb> kristiianpaul: sige sampler
[14:26] <Laurenceb> from sparkfun
[14:30] <Laurenceb> software correlator in c/matlab
[14:30] <Darkside> ooo
[14:30] <Darkside> Laurenceb: you'd be interested in these vaisala radiosondes
[14:31] <Darkside> they have a ublox gps frontend, and they send the samples down via the radio link
[14:31] <Darkside> and all teh correlation is done in software on the ground
[14:31] <Laurenceb> interesting
[14:31] <Laurenceb> what frontend?
[14:31] <eroomde> so they just bent-pipe the L1 freq?
[14:31] <Darkside> uNav something
[14:31] <Darkside> hold
[14:31] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: wow the expensive one :-)
[14:32] <kristianpaul> are yo running the correlator in a emdebbed device?
[14:32] <Darkside> The GPS receiver is a uBlox uN8021 RF front-end, which demodulates the GPS L1 signal, and sends samples to the micro-controller. This module is controlled via SPI on a shared bus, and also provides a 16.3676MHz clock signal to the rest of the board.
[14:32] <kristianpaul> your correlate in real time or just take sample first?
[14:32] <Darkside> http://web.archive.org/web/20051104225845/www.unav-micro.com/pdf/03_11_17+uN8021C+Final+DS.pdf
[14:32] <kristianpaul> is you code pubnlically avaliable and freely/copyleft licensed? :-)
[14:32] <Darkside> you can easily sniff the SPI bus
[14:33] <Darkside> would be cool to write a correlator in C
[14:33] <Laurenceb> oh sweet
[14:33] <kristianpaul> osgps have implemented the gp2021 correator in C btw
[14:33] <Laurenceb> kristiianpaul: its from kia borre
[14:33] <Laurenceb> with some fixes by me
[14:34] <Laurenceb> interesting - so osgps now have an open receiver framework?
[14:34] <Laurenceb> DarkSide: awesome, so a poor mans sige sampler?
[14:34] <Laurenceb> which radiosonde is this?
[14:34] <kristianpaul> what you mean with framework? (sorry my english is not mother tongue)
[14:34] <Laurenceb> software project
[14:34] <Darkside> Laurenceb: RS92-SGPW
[14:35] <Laurenceb> cool, thanks
[14:35] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/?p=56
[14:35] <Laurenceb> Darkside: perfect for stm32 sdr gps dev :D
[14:35] <Darkside> :P
[14:35] <Laurenceb> think i have one of those actually
[14:37] <eroomde> so you think you can do soft correlation on an stm32?
[14:37] <Laurenceb> im guessing it takes samples of a few tens of ms of data, then sends them over the radio
[14:37] <Darkside> yup
[14:38] <Laurenceb> theres nowhere near enough bandwidth to stream the gps
[14:38] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: btw http://gnss-sdr.ru/index.php?blogid=2
[14:38] <Darkside> we use sondemonitor to decode the data
[14:38] <kristianpaul> in case you have a maxim EVB to playwith, as i dont :(
[14:38] <eroomde> ok so does it just send the bitstream then?
[14:38] <eroomde> per sat, that is
[14:38] <Laurenceb> ermoode: not exactly
[14:38] <Laurenceb> youll run a correlator on the raw data
[14:39] <Laurenceb> find pseudorange and doppler
[14:39] <Laurenceb> no
[14:39] <Laurenceb> find poddler only even
[14:39] <Laurenceb> *doppler
[14:39] <kristianpaul> ah you got the borre book i see
[14:39] <Laurenceb> as its only used for wind aiui... in which case you needs milliseconds of data only
[14:40] <Laurenceb> kristianpaul: yes, the book comes with a cd of useful code examples
[14:40] <Darkside> we get position information to about 70m accuracy
[14:40] <Laurenceb> Darkside: with sondemonitor?
[14:40] <Darkside> yup
[14:40] <Laurenceb> which is opensource?
[14:40] <Darkside> no
[14:40] <Darkside> sadly
[14:40] <Laurenceb> ah i see - its from vaisala?
[14:40] <Darkside> nope
[14:41] <Darkside> google sondemonitor
[14:41] <Darkside> its by a guy named bev
[14:41] <Darkside> he spent aaaaaaages reverse engineering teh vaisala protocol
[14:41] <Laurenceb> intriguing
[14:41] <Darkside> good bloke
[14:41] <Darkside> DPS whiz
[14:41] <Darkside> DSP*
[14:41] <Darkside> he comes to SA every year
[14:42] <Laurenceb> so hes implimented the gps ?!
[14:42] <Darkside> and he's very responsive to feature requests - i got him to add some stuff to the GPS output
[14:42] <Darkside> yes
[14:42] <Laurenceb> oh dsp whiz indeed :P
[14:42] <Laurenceb> thats some pretty insane work
[14:42] <Darkside> i coded an interface between that program and our existing balloon tracking software
[14:42] <Darkside> so it plots a digisondes position on oziexplorer, and does live predictions
[14:43] <Darkside> helps a lot when tracking them
[14:43] <Laurenceb> actually there is one descrete logic opensource gps...
[14:44] <Laurenceb> cant find the link now
[14:44] <Darkside> i need to sleep now....
[14:45] <Darkside> payload construction day tomorrow!
[14:45] <Darkside> gonna build as many of the mininut boards as i can
[14:45] <Laurenceb> S53MV
[14:45] <Laurenceb> built it
[14:45] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: i'm working with a sige SE4162T EVB, so far i just implement acquisition core, and playing a bit with osgps, but still not get a prn match..
[14:45] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/gallery/2011-06-15_MiniNut_PCBs/DSC_4078.jpg
[14:45] <Laurenceb> http://www.s5tech.net/s53mv/
[14:45] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: all is implemende on a fpga, re-using bits from the milkymist projects
[14:46] <Laurenceb> kristianpaul: id try playing about in matlab first
[14:46] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: what'm currently work on, is get to work the namuru correlator on the Milkymist SoC
[14:46] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: this code run on octave as well?
[14:46] <kristianpaul> or scilab may be?
[14:46] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:46] <Laurenceb> octave is ok
[14:47] <eroomde> a scilab implementation would be useful
[14:47] <kristianpaul> indeed
[14:47] <eroomde> which is exactly what i'm working on atm
[14:47] <kristianpaul> they guy from gnss-sdr.ru implemented something in scilab, afaik just for glonass i think
[14:48] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: eroomde you guys have a blog?
[14:48] <Laurenceb> http://www.s5tech.net/s53mv/navsats/theory.html
[14:48] <Laurenceb> nope
[14:48] <eroomde> nope
[14:48] <kristianpaul> i think i'll hang out here for a long time :D
[14:48] <eroomde> should, I know
[14:48] <Laurenceb> ive got kia borres code running fine in octave
[14:48] <Laurenceb> got 6m CEP
[14:48] <Laurenceb> with 8 sats in the sky
[14:48] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: you have that code?
[14:49] <kristianpaul> i dont buyed the book :(
[14:49] <Laurenceb> yes... its mostly online
[14:49] <kristianpaul> oh, really?
[14:49] <Elwell> Darkside: You've done a mininut board production run?
[14:49] <Laurenceb> just a few fixes required to get it to work properly and produce a fix
[14:49] <Laurenceb> just a sec ill search bookmarks
[14:49] <kristianpaul> can you point me to it, i could find it.. just some binaries i remenber
[14:50] <Laurenceb> http://www.s5tech.net/s53mv/navsats/theory.html
[14:50] <Laurenceb> ^is a good read to start off
[14:50] <kristianpaul> to get the kia borres code ?
[14:51] <Darkside> Elwell: via fusion pcb, yes
[14:51] <Darkside> i.e. 10 boards for USD$10
[14:51] <Laurenceb> http://kom.aau.dk/~borre/matlab/
[14:52] <Elwell> can't complain :-)
[14:52] <Laurenceb> ^there you go
[14:52] <Laurenceb> iirc you need to add some coordinate conversion routines to get a usable fix
[14:52] <Elwell> Darkside: OK so if they work as expected I'll take a pcb from you at next run
[14:52] <kristianpaul> so you already shiped the sige dongle within the payload of a balloon?
[14:53] <Elwell> s/take/buy/ just in case its not clear :-)
[14:53] <Laurenceb> i never got msl altitude to work properly without using some online tools to correct
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[14:53] <Laurenceb> kristianpaul: ive only used it on the ground
[14:54] <kristianpaul> but you are experimented with other front ends ?
[14:54] <Laurenceb> not yet
[14:54] <Laurenceb> i would if i had time :P
[14:54] <kristianpaul> :)
[14:54] <kristianpaul> i'm bit aware of comercial gps close-source receivers at high altitudes
[14:55] <kristianpaul> well, dspstv_ point me something about to avoid be used in rockets.. or soemthinh like that
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[14:55] <kristianpaul> aware of limitations i mean*
[14:56] <kristianpaul> anyway, nice to meet you guys, but i should back to work and finish some stuff before take a look to all liks you gave me :-)
[14:56] <eroomde> a lot of the gps construction interest on here comes from those limitations
[14:56] <eroomde> dealing with high altitudes, valocitities and accelerations
[14:56] <kristianpaul> resolution?
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[14:57] <kristianpaul> cause there are really expensive receivers for getting cetimenter range accuracy i think
[14:57] <eroomde> hmm, depends
[14:57] <kristianpaul> mostly used for GISS i was told
[14:57] <eroomde> real time, maybe just a couple of hundred m
[14:57] <eroomde> at high velocities anyway
[14:57] <kristianpaul> ;)
[14:57] <eroomde> but lots of interest in offline reconstruction, using gyro and accel data to help
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[14:57] <eroomde> at higher accuracy
[14:58] <Laurenceb> thats actually pretty easy
[14:58] <Laurenceb> using borres code
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[14:59] <kristianpaul> (offline reconstruction), i see, thats why ublox use that geotagging for cameras, i bet then
[14:59] <eroomde> yep
[15:00] <lekernel> know about http://ballonsolaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/historique5.htm (in French only, sorry)?
[15:00] <lekernel> balloon filled with water vapor
[15:01] <Laurenceb> thats a cool site
[15:01] <kristianpaul> indeed
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[15:04] <kristianpaul> n
[15:04] <kristianpaul> oops
[15:05] <kristianpaul> any one tried fastgps?
[15:06] <kristianpaul> i dont choose it because have some SIMD code, so osgps was more portable
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[15:13] <Laurenceb> tbh i havent really looked into this
[15:14] <Laurenceb> when i last looked at the problem there were no serious opensource gps efforts
[15:14] <Laurenceb> this all sounds interesting, ill have to have a read about the projects
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> It's easy to get to 'it sort of works'
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> Then people tend to lose interest.
[15:14] <Laurenceb> oh hang om
[15:15] <Laurenceb> osgps uses zarlink
[15:15] <Laurenceb> thats cheating :P
[15:15] <kristianpaul> thats how intially worked
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[15:16] <kristianpaul> but as i said,it implemend the zarlink correlator in software too
[15:16] <Laurenceb> ah nice
[15:16] <Laurenceb> thats actually usable then
[15:17] <Laurenceb> ill have to give it a go
[15:17] <Laurenceb> doubt its run on stm32 without a lot of persuasion tho
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[15:18] <Laurenceb> what are you planning to run it on?
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[15:23] <Laurenceb> http://kom.aau.dk/~borre/matlab/
[15:23] <Laurenceb> oops
[15:23] <Laurenceb> http://www.sendspace.com/file/kdodzd
[15:23] <Laurenceb> ^interesting
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[15:27] <kristianpaul> Laurenceb: rtems :-)
[15:28] <kristianpaul> or at least in open emdeed or openwrt
[15:28] <kristianpaul> code looks portable, until you want to use the ISA port ;-), wich i think is not our time
[15:28] <Laurenceb> interesting
[15:29] <kristianpaul> also, there seems to be a linux module for the gp2021
[15:29] <kristianpaul> so at least that part is getting away from the initial code
[15:29] <kristianpaul> gp2021 hw.
[15:30] <kristianpaul> if you still can those :-)
[15:30] <kristianpaul> can get*
[15:30] <Laurenceb> you cant
[15:30] <Laurenceb> out of production a couple of years ago
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[15:58] <Elwell> Q - anyone compared using say http://www.hoperf.com/upload/rf/RFM12B.pdf v the radiometrix for range?
[15:58] <Elwell> (since the RFM12 is popular with 'duinos
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[16:32] <simhed> ..how do you guys usually measure the helium when filling balloon?
[16:32] <simhed> the amount i mean, of how much has been released from the bottle already
[16:33] <SpeedEvil> simhed: measure the lift of the balloon.
[16:34] <simhed> i thought about doing it this way.. but also, are there any devices i could mount on the bottle itself, like flow meters?
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> They're several hundred times more expensive than a scale.
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> simhed it's a thorny subject in amateur ballooning, there's no cheap way to precisely measure the actual moles of helium in a balloon, other than measuring lift force
[16:40] <Dan-K2VOL> Which is very poor if you're not in calm air
[16:41] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm actually hoping to find some people who will experiment with using Kinects or similar 3D rapid scanners to live calculate the volume of a balloon on the launch pad
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[16:42] <SpeedEvil> The problem is that in wind, a balloon does not have zero lift
[16:43] <eroomde> you could ask to borrow a mass flow meter if you actually want to know
[16:43] <eroomde> we've got one as a permenant loan
[16:44] <eroomde> but if not just measuring list will usually do the job
[16:44] <eroomde> lift*
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[16:48] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice eroomde, having that flowmeter is handy
[16:49] <BrainDamage> can't you use a simple string/meter tape tied around the diameter the balloon to measure volume?
[16:49] <Dan-K2VOL> If the balloon manufacturers would put an even grid inked on the balloon we could do it with simple photography
[16:49] <eroomde> assuming it's a sphere, yeah
[16:49] <eroomde> but it isn't
[16:49] <BrainDamage> is the shape repetible?
[16:50] <eroomde> depends on the fill and the age and manufacturer of the balloon
[16:50] <BrainDamage> that's all you need, because you could tune it with pull
[16:50] <eroomde> and the wind loading
[16:50] <Dan-K2VOL> Ah BrainDamage you haven't launched a balloon in the wind - it is a highly changing shape that folds and billows
[16:50] <BrainDamage> ok, not repetible them
[16:50] <BrainDamage> then*
[16:50] <eroomde> too many variables to get a better estimate than just measuring lift, i would think
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[17:21] <SpeedEvil> http://jalopnik.com/5811839/libyan-rebels-turn-power-wheels-toy-into-tiny-killer-robot-tank
[17:24] <Elwell> fark
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[17:32] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[17:32] <fsphil> pong jcoxon
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[18:03] <m1x10> hi all
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> hi
[18:03] <m1x10> friday is the big day that i say bye bye to army
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:03] <SpeedEvil> Do you think they'll miss you?
[18:03] <m1x10> no
[18:03] <m1x10> lol
[18:04] <m1x10> i will destroy their cars if i meet them out
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[18:10] <m1x10> today i left the main building
[18:10] <m1x10> and went to sleep in a car
[18:10] <m1x10> they found me
[18:10] <m1x10> and gave me 4 days prison
[18:10] <m1x10> then i told them on friday im citizen
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> Oops.
[18:10] <m1x10> and they were sooo mad
[18:10] <m1x10> i made them sick of me
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> Your tour doesn't get extended to cover that?
[18:11] <m1x10> no
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:11] <m1x10> i need to get more than 20days of prison before i start extending
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> Probably not a good idea to try to hit that limit.
[18:12] <m1x10> u have to do something very bad to get 20
[18:12] <m1x10> something of security concern
[18:12] <m1x10> no because of secrectly sleeping :)
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[18:14] <m1x10> leaving your guarding sector is about 20 days
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> What's accidentally starting a small war with belgium?
[18:16] <m1x10> what?
[18:16] <m1x10> rephrase plz
[18:19] <fsphil> hehe
[18:19] <fsphil> probably a promotion
[18:21] <Elwell> would anyone notice?
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[18:47] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Other materials to make a balloon out of?"
[18:54] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[19:07] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch antennae? Re: interesting item on ebay?"
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[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:28] <fsphil> hai
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[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
[19:34] <fsphil> the usual :) too many things to do, not enough time :) you?
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> recovering from cold
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> and besides that, what you said :)
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil my mother has a friend and the husband of that friend is a good friend of mine
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> and he is quite interested in the ballooning topic and he wants to be there for my first launch
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> and he is a painter and maybe he could do an ARHAB painting
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> (he is a hobby painter but his paintings are awesome :))
[19:38] <fsphil> lol - that'd be pretty original
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> and my friend who did the michelson interferometer experiment with me today told me that he's sick and going to hospital
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> probably because the doctor's is closed already
[19:41] <fsphil> eek
[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> but I then thought of EHEC
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Inhaled too much ether?
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD no fortunately not
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> but I was at my workplace
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> and the regulator of the nitrogen cylinder emits a slight whooshing sound
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> the tech who checked it two weeks ago wasn't alarmed about that
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> do you often have regulator problems on the helium cylinders?
[19:49] <fsphil> none so far here
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
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[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil is there a risk of a regulator exploding or so?
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> or can a cylinder only become a rocket if the valve is torn off with brute force?
[19:55] <fsphil> very unlikely, unless you really try hard
[19:55] <eroomde> they usually have burst discs
[19:55] <eroomde> which should go long before anything else
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[19:56] <griffonbot> Received email: Brad Luyster "Re: [UKHAS] Other materials to make a balloon out of?"
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> because that machine I am working with at university needs that N2 as a pneumatic agent
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> and it needs it with 8 bars
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil did you recover you payload?
[20:16] <fsphil> not yet, the tree stole my knife :)
[20:16] <BrainDamage> -> use a larger weapon
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:16] <BrainDamage> if necessary, escalate up to tacnukes
[20:17] <BrainDamage> more, would probably get too much media attention, and we don't want the project be halted hafway trough world domination
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[20:18] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Patch antennae? Re: interesting item on ebay?"
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[20:19] <fsphil> I'd like not to set fire to the very flammable forest :)
[20:19] <fsphil> I've got a cunning plan
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
[20:20] <fsphil> should be nifty if it works - will try to get some video
[20:21] <fsphil> not sure when I'll be able to get back to it though, everyone's busy this weekend
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Does it involve tree-climbing boots?
[20:22] <fsphil> nope :)
[20:22] <BrainDamage> a tree climbing robot?
[20:22] <BrainDamage> oh, even better, trained monkey!
[20:22] <BrainDamage> or ... squirrels!
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> It's not PC to refer to irish people as monkeys these days, so I hear.
[20:23] <fsphil> I was hoping the squirrels would have had a go at the cord, but they didn't. meh, silly american imported squirrels :)
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> The grey ones?
[20:24] <fsphil> yea - there was a few running about when I was last up
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it's about the same size and shape as some birdboxes.
[20:24] <BrainDamage> you need to embed nut chunks in the parachute ropes
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:24] <fsphil> it's even got an entrance
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> thunderstorm again
[20:34] <fsphil> *envy* ;-)
[20:34] Action: fsphil is waiting for the eclipsed moon to rise
[20:35] <eroomde> cloudy here
[20:36] <Dan-K2VOL> When you guys get rain over in the UK is it usually short and heavy storms or long hours of light rain?
[20:36] <fsphil> yes
[20:36] <fsphil> :)
[20:37] <fsphil> lately, long hours of heavy rain
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> Dependant on season.
[20:37] <fsphil> unless you're in england in which case it hasn't rained in a while
[20:37] <eroomde> in england we tend to have more drizzle
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> At the moment in Scotland, it's tending to long, prolonged rain.
[20:37] <eroomde> it's not like great thunderstorms forming in plains and dumping and then dissipating
[20:37] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm interesting
[20:37] <fsphil> no, thunderstorms are sadly very rare
[20:38] <Dan-K2VOL> Well that works in the favor of this water-cutdown, long steady rain will allow you to choose the thick restraint loop, which gives lots of margin against being exposed to clouds and in-flight rain
[20:39] <fsphil> I may give it a go on the next flight
[20:39] <fsphil> though naturally it'll land in an empty field when I do
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> Hehe of course
[20:39] <fsphil> or the ocean :)
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh boy
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> I suppose we've all had a few there now
[20:40] <jcoxon> a few!
[20:40] <fsphil> the north sea seems a popular spot for the cambridge folk :)
[20:40] <jcoxon> well :-)
[20:40] <jcoxon> its our friend
[20:40] <eroomde> it's an excuse to visit the beach
[20:40] <Dan-K2VOL> Did you guys hear that we've got a big bundle of messages in bottles on the tail end of the white star antenna, tied together with PVA string?
[20:40] <Dan-K2VOL> Hehe
[20:40] <fsphil> cute
[20:41] <fsphil> there's an idea jcoxon
[20:41] <Dan-K2VOL> it was a fundraiser we did, but the messages people put in them were stupid, honestl
[20:41] <jcoxon> message in a bottle!
[20:41] <jcoxon> :-p
[20:43] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, fsphil and I are working on a new hobby
[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh?
[20:43] <Dan-K2VOL> Que pasa
[20:43] <jcoxon> drifting remote operation stations
[20:43] <jcoxon> basically hab but on the sea
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> I had thought about a HAB submarine/bathyscaphe
[20:44] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, so much of the tech we have got
[20:45] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, LAB -- low altitude balloon
[20:45] <eroomde> jcoxon: more girlfriend proof too?
[20:45] <jcoxon> eroomde, yes!
[20:45] <fsphil> lol
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice jcoxon
[20:45] <jcoxon> though there is always the navy
[20:45] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd like to do low altitude superpressure
[20:46] <jcoxon> eroomde, i'm enjoying working on a sustainable system with solar power
[20:46] <fsphil> I fancy making a ZP balloon from cling film - though it would be a right pain working with it
[20:46] <eroomde> yep
[20:46] <eroomde> it'd stick itself shut
[20:46] <Dan-K2VOL> Haha
[20:47] <fsphil> or would end up sticking to me
[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL> Perhaps we could get a few PCB designs together to go in on a film-pcb, could save a bunch of weight for small balloons
[20:47] <fsphil> thinking I could cut it into segments, and just some kind of adhesive to glue it together
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> Like how big you thinking fsphil?
[20:48] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, or use the pcb as the strength
[20:48] <jcoxon> so small exposed pcbs
[20:48] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, small as I could get away with - the payload would be super light
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice, I like that idea
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL> Jcoxon yeah
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[20:49] <fsphil> I'm trying to learn eagle again
[20:49] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, http://hackaday.com/2011/04/29/mini-quadrocopter-is-crazy-awesome/
[20:49] <fsphil> I'll figure out this program if it kills me :)
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Hehe fsphil have you tried the sparkfun tutorials?
[20:49] <jonsowman> yeah the sparkfun tutorials are great
[20:50] <fsphil> got part of the way through, then things went weird
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> I just taught a class on Eagle with Zuph last weekend
[20:50] <jonsowman> fsphil: should if you need a hand, lots of people on here know what they're doing with eagle
[20:50] <eroomde> I do sigh a little every time i have to make a new device as i can't find it in a lib
[20:50] <Dan-K2VOL> so if you want a hand fsphil I'd be happy to help - get teamviewer and anyone could look over your shoulder while you work
[20:50] <jonsowman> fsphil: I suggest using the sparkfun keyboard shortcuts
[20:50] <eroomde> i'll often change the part to something that is in a lib
[20:51] <eroomde> compared to other packages, it's a very bizarre and lengthy process
[20:51] <fsphil> thanks all :) I'll start it again shortly
[20:51] <jonsowman> eroomde: i don't find it too bad once you know what you're doing
[20:51] <jonsowman> i prefer the way kicad does packages
[20:52] <Dan-K2VOL> Eroomde I'm with you, I usually try to pick parts that are in the SFE or DangerousPrototypes eagle libs
[20:52] <eroomde> i don't find it a logical way of doing things
[20:52] <eroomde> the entire library management in general is a bit esoteric
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> Ugh yeah
[20:53] <jcoxon> i read recently that xml was going to appear in eagle
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm disappointed that Newark/Farnell haven't forced it to get better since they acquired them
[20:53] <jcoxon> though googling that it looks like its quite old news
[20:53] <jonsowman> fsphil: maybe try kicad :P
[20:53] <eroomde> yes, i'm waiting to text based libraries
[20:54] <eroomde> then someone could make a proper eagle community library project
[20:54] <eroomde> instead of cadsoft's utterly dire offering
[20:54] <eroomde> atmel.lbr
[20:54] <jcoxon> http://hackaday.com/2010/10/14/cadsoft-eagle-migrating-to-xml/
[20:54] <eroomde> atmel-1.lbr
[20:54] <eroomde> atmel2.lbr
[20:54] <eroomde> atmel-bob-newatmega.lbr
[20:54] <jonsowman> yeah text based things would be good for version control things
[20:55] <Dan-K2VOL> yes jonsowman I'd like that too
[20:55] <jonsowman> but really the number of packages already available makes up for the slightly lengthy creating process
[20:55] <fsphil> jonsowman, ooh it's packaged for fedora
[20:55] <jonsowman> fsphil: kicad is free, open source, cross platform, etc
[20:55] <jonsowman> generally happy in all respects
[20:55] <BrainDamage> there's eagle to kicad converters
[20:55] <jonsowman> personally I have several issues with it so I'm sticking to eagle for now
[20:56] <BrainDamage> I forgot if it's integrated with kicad itself now & can import directly
[20:56] <jonsowman> but it does a lot of things very, very nicely
[20:56] <jcoxon> jonsowman, i guess if you are learning something from scratch go for kicad
[20:56] <BrainDamage> my main issue with kicad is the schematic editor
[20:56] <BrainDamage> it's truly horrible
[20:56] <jonsowman> jcoxon: I still have my concerns, but kicad is getting better very quickly
[20:56] <jcoxon> i guess the more users the better
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> hmm dactyl ekf is running
[20:57] <jonsowman> definitely jcoxon
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> seems a pretty stable solution
[20:57] <jonsowman> kicad's schematic editor is a pain to use, but produces very pretty schematics
[20:58] <BrainDamage> I hate it moves wires solidly
[20:58] <jonsowman> it has Move and Drag
[20:58] <jonsowman> they are distinct, as opposed to eagle
[20:59] <BrainDamage> :/
[20:59] <eroomde> another eagle annouyance
[20:59] <eroomde> i'd like to be able to copy-paste entire chunks of stuff in layout
[20:59] <jonsowman> you can, just hit clone, then ctrl right click to clone group
[21:00] <eroomde> if i'm doing an analog front end for an adc card, say, and i layout the amplifier and filtering and grounding shizzle for one channel, i'd like to be able to copy-paste in 8 times in a row for 8 chanels
[21:00] <jonsowman> oh I see
[21:00] <eroomde> you can!? I could never get it to work last time i tried
[21:00] <eroomde> i spent hours fighting the thing
[21:00] <jonsowman> I missed that you said "layout"
[21:00] <eroomde> ah yes precisely
[21:00] <eroomde> the bit that actually takes time and care
[21:01] <jonsowman> yeah indeed
[21:01] <jonsowman> here's that ADF radio IC by the way eroomde
[21:01] <jonsowman> http://hexoc.com/u/adf_front.jpg
[21:01] <eroomde> imagine if you had to design a sprocket in CAD and it didn't offer a pattern-around-circle tool
[21:01] <eroomde> that's how moronic the lack of that feature is to me
[21:02] <eroomde> nice
[21:02] <jonsowman> wonder if kicad has that feature...
[21:02] <eroomde> have you fired her up?
[21:02] <jonsowman> the interface is a bit of a pain and we've been busy today, but will do soon
[21:02] Action: fsphil has a project, and added an attiny2313
[21:03] <jonsowman> eroomde: also still waiting on a couple of caps (middle left)
[21:03] <fsphil> so far so good :)
[21:03] <jonsowman> the rf chain is very very similar to badgercub's
[21:04] <jonsowman> fsphil: good stuff :)
[21:04] <eroomde> badgervubs was just the recommended layout from the datasheet - did you do it with ref to that datasheet?
[21:04] <jonsowman> no, with ref to the ADF's datasheet
[21:05] <jonsowman> but I'm pretty sure they're identical
[21:05] <jonsowman> more or less so anyway
[21:06] <Dan-K2VOL> Ttyl all
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[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[21:40] <Laurenceb_> aha - Dactyl ekf is giving the correct attitude quaternion XD
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> seems to be stable as well
[21:41] <Laurenceb_> only issue now is why it occasionally locks up :-S
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> turns out the worldmagmodel stuff is rather inaccurate on two axes... cant work out if its units or what
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> oddly the y axis is a really good match
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