highaltitude.log.20110612

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[06:07] <Darkside> http://i.imgur.com/ZQPH9.jpg
[06:08] <Darkside> now THIS is how you hunt 23cm
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[08:47] <fsphil> nice one Darkside
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[09:28] <fsphil> wonder if this will fit in my back garden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOdhneE3l6Q
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[10:03] <jcoxon> morning
[10:27] <fsphil> g'day jcoxon
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[10:35] <fsphil> or not
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[10:39] <mattltm> Hi all :)
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[10:43] <jcoxon> hey fsphil
[10:44] <fsphil> hi hi mattltm n' jcoxon
[10:44] <jcoxon> fsphil, managed to go backwards with my rtc work :-)
[10:44] <jcoxon> moved it to a breadboard with 3.3v and its not working again
[10:44] <jcoxon> going to retrace my steps
[10:46] <fsphil> aah for a second there I thought you where going to say it was counting backwards
[10:46] <fsphil> was it on the same breadboard before?
[10:46] <jcoxon> no on a arduino decimededeemodeko
[10:48] <fsphil> not sure what that is but it's a cool name ;)
[10:48] <jcoxon> its the original board
[10:48] <jcoxon> i couldn't remember how to spell it
[10:48] <fsphil> strange that it would stop working -- it's not talking at all?
[10:49] <jcoxon> yeah its talking
[10:49] <jcoxon> just not the alarms
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[10:51] <fsphil> is the function to set the alarms working?
[10:51] <jcoxon> i wonder if i managed to clear the settings some way
[10:51] <jcoxon> as i sort of forgot that the settings are persistant
[10:51] <jcoxon> so you can lose track of what you've set
[10:52] <fsphil> would removing the battery reset everything?
[10:52] <jcoxon> yeah
[10:53] <mattltm> rtc??
[10:53] <jcoxon> real time clock
[10:53] <mattltm> ah..
[10:55] <jcoxon> right bbl
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[10:57] <fsphil> anyone used one of these: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10388 ?
[11:03] <mattltm> Nope but it looks fun.
[11:05] <fsphil> does -- my old analogue scope was broken by my nephew dropping it on the floor
[11:05] <fsphil> been looking for a new one
[11:12] <Hiena> fsphil: cheap but useless. Kind of pointless to buy any digital scope under 600MS/s and 60MHz bandwidth.
[11:14] <BrainDamage> for 100$ more, you can buy a rigol that does 1GS/s, and has 50 MHz bandwith, and if you're lucky you get a version with old firmware ( still happends due to lot of stock ), you can hack it to 100 MHz
[11:14] <fsphil> what would the extra bandwidth be useful for?
[11:14] <fsphil> compared to the dso quad
[11:15] <Hiena> Usually, in home projects, you face the signals in the 1-15MHz range, but when you have to debug or repair something more mass project like USB or something like tha, you will be on the wrong end.
[11:16] <BrainDamage> if you're watching squarewave @ 20MHz, you want at least 5th armonic unless you just want to see a sine
[11:16] <Hiena> fsphil: the extra bandwidth helps, when you should debug trigger situations.
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[11:17] <BrainDamage> ofc there's logic analyzers too that can do that task, but I kinda prefer my scope
[11:17] <Hiena> Also, as BrainDamage says priceless for the digital signal analisys.
[11:19] <fsphil> thanks! I'll keep an eye out for something better
[11:19] <Hiena> Not to mention, when you mess with RF setup, kind of helps to see the noise situation. 1 or 2W RF near to long sensor cables could results funny situations.
[11:29] <mattltm> Since you 'scope gurus are here... We have about £500 to get a scope for our new hackspace. Recomendations?
[11:31] <mattltm> Somthing like this? http://cpc.farnell.com/owon/pds7102t/oscilloscope-dso-100mhz/dp/IN05705
[11:32] <fsphil> nice
[11:33] <mattltm> Or for a touch over the budget... http://cpc.farnell.com/gw-instek/gds-820s/oscilloscope-lcd-150mhz/dp/IN04426
[11:33] <mattltm> Im not much of a scope man but I have to spaen it!
[11:33] <mattltm> *spend
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[11:34] <mattltm> What would you go for fsphil?
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[11:36] <BrainDamage> the second link is crap, 100MSps for 150MHz even violates shannon-nyquist theorem, I hope it's a mistake
[11:36] <mattltm> BrainDamage: Thanks. Thats why I need some guidance :)
[11:36] <fsphil> not qualified to say :) but remember you may need to buy probes with it too, so you might be better keeping under budget a bit
[11:37] <fsphil> not sure if they come with probes
[11:37] <mattltm> BrainDamage: What would you recommend?
[11:37] <Hiena> Nope. The 150MHz is for the analoge section of the scope, which means nice and crispy signals at the highest sample rate.
[11:38] <mattltm> fsphil: I have about 2K to kit the room out with some basic gear. We have ordered a makerbot already so im down to about £1200 left.
[11:38] <mattltm> Need to get soldering stations, small tools and other bits..
[11:38] <BrainDamage> Hiena: but you'll only be able to use for signals of say 20MHz, unless they are repetitive and you use triggering tricks
[11:39] <mattltm> But the users have specificly asked for a scope too.
[11:39] <fsphil> nice machine mattltm
[11:39] <BrainDamage> a scope is basically a must have if you got the budget
[11:39] <fsphil> can I also recommend a pcb miller :) saves on nasty chemicals
[11:39] <BrainDamage> scope, and function generator
[11:40] <Hiena> BrainDamage: yup. It's true.
[11:40] <mattltm> fsphil: A makerbot was top of the want list :)
[11:41] <mattltm> so basics should be a scope, function generator and maybe a pcb miller?
[11:41] <Hiena> And i guess, it will be the most pricey dust collector in the room.
[11:41] <mattltm> lol
[11:42] <Hiena> Nice thing to own a 3D printer, but pointless if you arent in the metal casting or RP business.
[11:42] <mattltm> Hiena: the main spend is driven buy the hackspace group so we asked them to choose some items.
[11:42] <BrainDamage> what's RP?
[11:43] <mattltm> Makerbot came out top but I see your point. I would rather have access to a spectrum analyser that a RP machine!
[11:43] <mattltm> Rapid Prototype.
[11:43] <BrainDamage> the first link oscope looks ok, the only thing I'm concerned is the 500MSps, if it's per channel or total
[11:43] <Hiena> Rapid Prototyping. Simply, it tooks more time to design somehing in 3D and print than cut and hack one.
[11:43] <BrainDamage> per channel is just fine having 5 dots per period, total-not as much having 2.5 points per period when using both channels @ max speed
[11:44] <BrainDamage> means you need pretty good digital filtering
[11:44] <BrainDamage> something that approximates very well a sinc
[11:44] <Hiena> Also, the output of the MB is far from the usefull. Not enough material strenght.
[11:45] <Hiena> I would rather wote for a lathe or mill and CNC it as home project.
[11:45] <mattltm> Hiena: Yes, not exactly production qaulity. I wonder if any of them have ever seen a product made on a MB?
[11:46] <BrainDamage> MB is? sorry, I suck at english technical shortenings
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[11:47] <Hiena> MakerBot
[11:49] <mattltm> Whats a good function generator bandwidth?
[11:49] <BrainDamage> btw, one thing, if you're buying a digital oscope, you might want to check if it has computer connectivity
[11:49] <BrainDamage> same for the function generator
[11:49] <BrainDamage> it will let you automate measurements
[11:49] <BrainDamage> and save a lot of boredom
[11:50] <mattltm> http://cpc.farnell.com/gw-instek/sfg-2010/function-generator-10mhz/dp/IN04401
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[11:52] <mattltm> lol
[11:52] <Hiena> mattltm: Well, i used RP products for aluminium casting. It's handy if you need cast dosen of custom parts, like skulls or gothic ornaments.
[11:52] <BrainDamage> mmm, 20 ppm for 1/Q is ok
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[11:52] <BrainDamage> I'm not familiar with pounds though, sec
[11:53] Nick change: Ikarus_ -> Ikarus
[11:53] <BrainDamage> mmm, 220£ seems 240¬, looks like a fair price
[11:53] <BrainDamage> err, 250¬
[11:54] <mattltm> 10Mhz ok?
[11:55] <BrainDamage> there's basically 3 "standard" frequency limit, 2, 10, and 20 MHz, first costs ~100¬, ~200¬, and third costs ~300¬ :p
[11:56] <BrainDamage> it has sweep & modulation too, so seems ok
[11:56] <BrainDamage> sec that I check if there's control port
[11:57] <BrainDamage> uhmm, where the hell is the datasheet? :/
[11:58] <BrainDamage> I don't know the brand btw
[12:01] <BrainDamage> ok, this is weird, the site says it has sweep and AM/FM modulation, but the datasheet says that model lacks it
[12:02] <mattltm> That is odd.
[12:02] <BrainDamage> http://www.tequipment.net/pdf/Instek/SFG-2000_Datasheet.pdf
[12:03] <BrainDamage> if you check the column for SFG-2010, you'll see it lacks modulation & sweep
[12:04] <mattltm> Not good.
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[12:12] <mixio> i power my TXH1 radio with 9V.
[12:12] <mattltm> BrainDamage: Whats a good selection of scope probes to start with?
[12:12] <mixio> but avr is working at 3v3
[12:13] <mixio> TXD pin of radio is wired to avr pwm pin which runs at 3v3
[12:13] <mixio> can this cause a problem?
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[12:15] <BrainDamage> I would say a normal hook probe should be sufficient for 99% of the tasks, you'll need 1 per channel, and one to spare
[12:15] <BrainDamage> any "decent" probe will also have attenuation switch
[12:15] <BrainDamage> typically 10x
[12:16] <BrainDamage> if you want more fancy probes such as high voltage, I think you're better buying when you're planning the need
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[12:16] <BrainDamage> otherwise they'll sit there getting dust
[12:17] <mattltm> http://cpc.farnell.com/_/probe100/oscilloscope-probe-100mhz/dp/IN02227
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[12:17] <mattltm> Somthing simple like that?
[12:18] <BrainDamage> yup, do check the scope tough, very often it will ship with probes ( mine did )
[12:18] <fsphil> mixio, isn't that module suppose to run at 3v?
[12:19] <BrainDamage> also, 20£ sounds a bit high
[12:19] <BrainDamage> ah, it's 22¬, mmm
[12:19] <BrainDamage> I guess still acceptable
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[12:22] <mattltm> Cool, thanks.
[12:23] <BrainDamage> buy some bnc-bnc cables, and bnc "T" shaped derivations
[12:23] <BrainDamage> they'll come in handy when you want to hook the function generator directly to the oscope without going to the circuit & back
[12:24] <mattltm> BrainDamage: do they need to be 50ohm or 75ohm?
[12:24] <BrainDamage> 50
[12:24] <mattltm> cool thanks.
[12:25] <mattltm> Ill prob make them up myself.
[12:28] <Darkside> evening
[12:30] <mattltm> Hi Darkside
[12:30] <mixio> fsphil, no. It can run from 3.8v - 15vb
[12:30] <mattltm> BrainDamage: How does this one look? http://cpc.farnell.com/gw-instek/sfg-2120/function-generator-dds-sweep/dp/IN05502
[12:32] <mattltm> http://www.sjelectronics.co.uk/acatalog/SFG-2100.pdf
[12:32] <BrainDamage> mattltm: much better, but for a similar price, I've seen a rigol function gen which also had usb control port
[12:32] <mattltm> Has that got the most common functions?
[12:32] <BrainDamage> and same spec
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[12:32] <BrainDamage> also arbitrary waveform generation and load from usb stick :p
[12:33] <mattltm> cool.
[12:33] <BrainDamage> altho the brand is kinda new ( yeah, chinese ), I own a scope from them and works just ok ( ok, I admit I got the scope only because I could remove firmware limitation and run it at 2x the bandwith it was priced for )
[12:34] <mattltm> lol. good reason :)
[12:34] <mattltm> http://www.stantronic.de/d/SFG-2120_D.pdf
[12:34] <mattltm> Looks like that will do the job :)
[12:35] <BrainDamage> search for other stuff, esp in other sites, you might find better deals at that price
[12:35] <mixio> fsphil: can u help? here radio seems not to work :(
[12:35] <mattltm> BrainDamage: I get .gov discount from cp c:)
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[12:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[12:41] <mixio> hi
[12:42] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[12:43] <mixio> getting back to normal
[12:43] <mixio> ping fsphil
[12:43] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil fsphil-eee
[12:43] <Lunar_Lander> I got a question mixio
[12:45] <mixio> drop it
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander> I once was shown this: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Standalone
[12:46] <Lunar_Lander> a way to imitate an Arduino Uno on a breadboard to test & program it
[12:46] <Lunar_Lander> and you need that USB to Serial breakout
[12:46] <Lunar_Lander> like this photo http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduinobb_14.jpg
[12:47] <mixio> yes
[12:47] <Lunar_Lander> and my question was, do you think that also works with the Atmega644P when you plug the green and blue wire to the TX and RX?
[12:47] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: you got an arduino already?
[12:47] <Lunar_Lander> yes, I have an Uno and a Mega
[12:47] <Lunar_Lander> *Mega 2560
[12:48] <mixio> the USB to Serial breakout works exactly the same on both uno and 644p
[12:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:49] <Lunar_Lander> I got the pinout of the 644p
[12:49] <Lunar_Lander> so I know where TX and RX are located
[12:49] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP
[12:49] <BrainDamage> you can use your arduino board as programmer
[12:49] <mixio> yes
[12:50] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[12:50] <Lunar_Lander> wait, I can use my Uno instead of
[12:50] <BrainDamage> so you can save yourself the ftdi board
[12:50] <Lunar_Lander> http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduinobb_14.jpg
[12:50] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[12:50] <Lunar_Lander> that is cool
[12:51] <BrainDamage> use the mega, not the uno, if you read the site, the uno firmware does not support icsp yet
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander> but it's like the same pins used?
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander> as on the pictures
[12:51] <BrainDamage> all you need to get the atmega going is the atmega itself, and if you need accurate/fast clock, external quarts + 2 cap
[12:52] <BrainDamage> yes
[12:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[12:52] <Lunar_Lander> so an 8 MHz quartz on the breadboard
[12:52] <BrainDamage> 20 is better
[12:52] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[12:52] <BrainDamage> btw, that setup is compatible with avrdude, so you can program arbitrary stuff in, not just arduino sketches
[12:54] <BrainDamage> also, don't buy atmega with preinstalled bootloader, they charge you 0.5¬ extra for something you can do youself
[12:54] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[12:59] <Lunar_Lander> so http://circuits.datasheetdir.com/18/ATMEGA324V-pinout.jpg
[12:59] <Lunar_Lander> that is the pinout
[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> what's AVCC?
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[13:04] <BrainDamage> analogue Vcc, the one used for the ADC
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:04] <Lunar_Lander> because on mixios board is a trace going from VCC to AVCC
[13:05] <BrainDamage> if you want accuracy, that's a bad thing, Vcc is usually not a good reference, but for simple design just works
[13:05] <BrainDamage> ( same for gnd really )
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[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
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[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> mixio a dumb question
[13:07] <Lunar_Lander> what is Ext Raw Batt for?
[13:09] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: remember that your suppy needs to not fluctuate within 1LSB to actually have the full adc scale
[13:09] <BrainDamage> so for example, with 8 bit, you want a supply that has a ripple less than 1/256
[13:10] <BrainDamage> with 10 bit, 1/1024
[13:10] Zuph (~brad@ec2-174-129-198-222.compute-1.amazonaws.com) got netsplit.
[13:10] russss (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nyjisibleikowndj) got netsplit.
[13:10] <BrainDamage> etc
[13:10] <BrainDamage> or even drift, with temperature & time, voltages tend to drift
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> you mean like 1/256 per second right?
[13:11] <BrainDamage> no, |deltaVcc| < 1/256 * aVcc _always_
[13:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:12] <BrainDamage> but if you don't need that accuracy, it doesn't matter
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> Only if avcc is within a small margin of vcc, or the chip explodes
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander> so if VCC=5V, AVCC must be close to 5V
[13:13] <mixio> SpeedEvil
[13:13] <SpeedEvil> mixio:
[13:14] <mixio> hi
[13:14] <mixio> i got a quwation
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> I got a flavour.
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[13:16] <mixio> SpeedEvil: avr runs at 3v3
[13:16] <mixio> but my TXH1 radio runs at 9V
[13:16] <mixio> radio's TXD pin is wired to avr's pwm pin
[13:16] <mixio> do we have a problem?
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Is the txd pin solely digital?
[13:17] <Lunar_Lander> the pinout says "PD7"
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> If so - go and read the datasheet of the radio, to see what input levels it required
[13:19] <SpeedEvil> s
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil
[13:19] <Lunar_Lander> for the NTX2 it says
[13:20] <Lunar_Lander> Transmitter (NTX2):
[13:20] <Lunar_Lander> "Supply 2.9V - 15V @ 18mA (internal 2.8V voltage regulator)"
[13:21] Zuph (~brad@ec2-174-129-198-222.compute-1.amazonaws.com) got lost in the net-split.
[13:21] <mixio> SpeedEvil: TXD DC coupled input for 3V CMOS logic. Rin = 100k©
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> Then it should work.
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> and NTX2 too?
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[13:25] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> Ig there is an internal regulator - then generally in most cases digital inputs will work over that range
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> So with a 2.8V regulator the input threshold will typically be around 1.4ish
[13:26] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> and for the bootloader
[13:27] <Lunar_Lander> do I need AVRISP mkII?
[13:33] <mixio> SpeedEvil: TX modulation requirements
[13:33] <mixio> If the data input level is greater than 3V, a resistor must be added in series with the TXD input to limit
[13:33] <mixio> the modulating input voltage to a maximum of 3V on pin 7. TXD input resistance is 100k© to ground,
[13:33] <mixio> giving typical required resistor values as follows:
[13:33] <mixio> 3.3V - 10kohm
[13:49] <fsphil> is this the module you're using mixio? http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiriton.com.tw%2Fdownload%2FTX-H1%2520specification.pdf&rct=j&q=TXH1&ei=t8P0TY6rH9SXhQeu_uTwBg&usg=AFQjCNEkc9s1sCxiWMl_rIWu2WN0puFTUg&cad=rja
[13:49] <fsphil> gah, google urls
[13:49] <fsphil> this: http://www.spiriton.com.tw/download/TX-H1%20specification.pdf
[13:51] <mixio> no fsphil
[13:52] <mixio> this: http://www.radiometrix.com/files/additional/tx1h.pdf
[13:52] <fsphil> aah, you said txh1
[13:53] <mixio> i managed to send data to aprs network
[13:53] <mixio> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=5&view=normal
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil
[13:53] <mixio> fsphil, do u want to open datasheet to help me more?
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> "Supply 2.9V - 15V @ 18mA (internal 2.8V voltage regulator)" for NTX2
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> so that would work in mixio's board right?
[13:55] <mixio> yes Lunar_Lander
[13:55] <mixio> the 3 AA make 4.5v
[13:55] <fsphil> yea, though it also says to limit to 25% usage if the voltage is above 9V
[13:55] <mixio> and radio is directly powered from AAs
[13:55] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:55] <fsphil> guess the regulator might get too hot
[13:55] <fsphil> how are you receiving this mixio?
[13:55] <mixio> fsphil: i power it with 4.5v
[13:56] <Lunar_Lander> but with 4.5V it should be OK?
[13:56] <fsphil> would be fine yea
[13:56] <mixio> fsphil: what was your question ?
[13:56] <fsphil> what are you transmitting? and how are you receiving it?
[13:57] <mixio> im sending APRS messages
[13:57] <mixio> at 144.8mhz
[13:58] <mixio> and they get received by any aprs station
[14:00] <fsphil> just using pwm?
[14:00] <mixio> finall, I have a fully space board :)
[14:00] <mixio> yes
[14:01] <mixio> it does AFSK with pwm
[14:01] <mixio> 1200bps
[14:02] <mixio> fsphil, datasheet says something about resistors in series for the TXD pin
[14:03] <fsphil> yea you need to make a voltage divider
[14:03] <mixio> If the data input level is greater than 3V, a resistor must be added in series with the TXD input to limit
[14:03] <mixio> the modulating input voltage to a maximum of 3V on pin 7. TXD input resistance is 100k© to ground,
[14:03] <mixio> giving typical required resistor values as follows: 3.3V - 10kohm
[14:03] <fsphil> it has a 100k ohm resistor built in
[14:03] <fsphil> you need to pick the other one so that the maximum voltage from your AVR is divided down to 3v
[14:03] <mixio> omg :(
[14:03] <mixio> i need new board to do that?
[14:03] Action: mixio pukes
[14:03] <fsphil> you didn't prototype this?
[14:04] <mixio> no
[14:05] <mixio> and i have soldered one 7.3mhz crystal
[14:06] <mixio> but it works...its transmitting...
[14:06] <fsphil> probably out of spec though, the deviation might be too wide
[14:06] <Lunar_Lander> I just had an idea
[14:07] <Lunar_Lander> you have those female headers for plugging in the TX
[14:07] <mixio> yes
[14:07] <Lunar_Lander> how about connecting the TX to it with wires and splice an Resistor into one of these wires
[14:07] <mixio> i thought of that but it will make the whole system look bad :(
[14:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[14:14] <Lunar_Lander> but maybe the only way?
[14:15] <mattltm> SMT resistor on the pcb? Cut the track and insert?
[14:16] <fsphil> good idea
[14:16] <mixio> mattltm: im not so experienced electronics guy
[14:17] <Lunar_Lander> me neither
[14:17] <mattltm> mixio: you have made a custom pcb. I don't think your experiance is in question!
[14:18] <mattltm> A small SMT resistor will be easy to place.
[14:20] <mattltm> The cheats was is to use a blob of bluetack to hold one end whilst you solder the other :)
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[14:38] <mixio> how to cut the track ?
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[14:43] <mattltm> Sharp box cutter or dremmal or a small dril bit turned by hand.
[14:44] <mixio> i dont like the whole idea, i will leave it as it is.
[14:47] <mattltm> Hey, if it works then its all good :)
[14:48] <Lunar_Lander> what was the issue with the resistor again?
[14:48] <Lunar_Lander> that the divergence could be too great?
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[15:16] <SamSilver> if only I could tap into and repeat this> http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-292862.html?s=172036c491e630a83c83ac745e76c321
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> SamSilver: HF has wierd propagation.
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> SamSilver: It bounces wierdly off the ionosphere usually
[15:17] <SamSilver> and meteor showers
[15:18] <SamSilver> from sun spots to ........
[15:18] <Lunar_Lander> no
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> SamSilver: However - there isn't in principle anything stopping a normally 'useless' ionospheric configuration forming a lens that points at the moon, and gives high gain
[15:18] <Lunar_Lander> not from the sun spots
[15:18] <SpeedEvil> This is _monstrously_ unlikely.
[15:19] <SamSilver> I swear even rotting seaweed has got credit
[15:19] <SamSilver> no I lie exagarate
[15:19] <SamSilver> lol
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[15:20] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: I like the use of the word "lens"
[15:20] <SpeedEvil> It's not quite an inaccurate term.
[15:21] <SpeedEvil> Similar to if you're really unlucky, a coke bottle can set stuff in fire.
[15:21] <SamSilver> I know > but it includes many things that are possible
[15:21] <Josh_> Hi guys.....we are working on our arduino.....how can we confirm that the code and the arduino is working? can we use the arduino gps whilst hooked up to a pc, without having to use a wireless receiver?
[15:22] <BrainDamage> a tornado could also enter a scrapyard and assemble a working airplane, but what's the odds?
[15:22] <SamSilver> even Pepsi ; - )
[15:22] <fsphil-eee> there was a story a while back about really long echos on HF
[15:22] <fsphil-eee> many minutes worth
[15:22] <BrainDamage> Josh_: sure, there's dedicated functions for serial communication
[15:22] <SamSilver> BrainDamage: ........................ i am speachless
[15:23] <BrainDamage> just use them, and send yourself some debug messages
[15:23] <fsphil-eee> I think I seen that episode of Scrapheap Challange BrainDamage :)
[15:23] <Josh_> ok thanks
[15:23] <SamSilver> fsphil-eee: this one http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-292862.html?s=172036c491e630a83c83ac745e76c321
[15:25] <fsphil-eee> not that one, these echos where a few minutes after the transmittion
[15:26] <SamSilver> moon and back is about 2.6 secs
[15:26] <SamSilver> minutes woud be ......
[15:27] <SamSilver> would be to Captain Kirk terrority
[15:27] <fsphil-eee> ah, -- 46 seconds: http://www.southgatearc.org/news/december2010/long_delay_echoes.htm
[15:27] <fsphil-eee> wasn't minutes, I remembered wrong
[15:27] <SamSilver> or the guys who make crop cicles
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[15:35] <SamSilver> some of this would go down well lol http://www.hamradioweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9239
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[15:57] <Lunar_Lander> yeah this is a sunday full of events
[15:58] <SamSilver> Lunar_Lander: well besides my dog getting a flea-bath what is going on in your neck of the woods?
[15:59] <SamSilver> http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/2481fc.pdf
[16:00] <Lunar_Lander> checking PCBs and so on
[16:01] <SamSilver> I am looking for darksides RDF video
[16:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:01] <SamSilver> but I have not saved his thingy
[16:01] <Lunar_Lander> oh :(
[16:01] <SamSilver> where he gets bogged down
[16:02] <SamSilver> and I don't know how to ping him
[16:02] <SamSilver> he was RDF ing
[16:03] <SamSilver> and got intimate with some mud
[16:03] <Laurenceb_> SamSilver: im using one of those
[16:03] <Laurenceb_> its pretty sweet
[16:04] <SamSilver> Laurenceb_: carefull you don't snort it .... ; - )
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> heh
[16:04] mattltm (~mattltm@81.134.144.179) left irc:
[16:04] <Laurenceb_> its not that small - i hand soldered it
[16:04] <SamSilver> carefull you dont lose it up you nasel passage
[16:04] <SamSilver> lol
[16:05] <SamSilver> Laurenceb_: lol
[16:06] <SamSilver> it has arsnic and other stuff in it
[16:06] <SamSilver> n type
[16:06] <SamSilver> p type
[16:06] <SamSilver> you get the pic
[16:06] <SamSilver> but what are you using it for?
[16:07] <Laurenceb_> pitot
[16:07] <SamSilver> LTC481
[16:07] <SamSilver> pitot?
[16:07] <SamSilver> air preasure ?
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[16:08] <SamSilver> auto pilot
[16:08] <Laurenceb_> yes
[16:09] <SamSilver> that is why I do not like you!!!!
[16:09] <SamSilver> because I only need a RTL
[16:09] <SamSilver> ;-)
[16:09] <Lunar_Lander> ihh RTL!
[16:09] <Lunar_Lander> (worst TV station in Germany)
[16:10] <SamSilver> return to launch
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:10] <SamSilver> GPS input Kalman loop left OR right rudder QED
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> youll need something very stable for that
[16:11] <Laurenceb_> like a rogallo :P
[16:11] <SamSilver> I have a parachute that is good to go!
[16:13] <SamSilver> what does " ihh " mean?
[16:14] <Laurenceb_> i dont know
[16:15] <SamSilver> <Lunar_Lander> ihh RTL!
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> like disgusting or so
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[16:19] <mixio> system runs far better in batteries
[16:19] <mixio> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=50&view=normal
[16:19] <mixio> NearSpace Flight System Revision: Rev. C04.05.11
[16:19] <mixio> AFSK modulator ready
[16:19] <mixio> GPS ready
[16:19] <mixio> microSD ready
[16:19] <mixio> Temperature Sensor ready
[16:19] <mixio> Pressure sensor ready
[16:19] <mixio> Message: 1
[16:19] <mixio> System voltage: 3227
[16:19] <mixio> Temperature (C): 29
[16:19] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[16:19] <mixio> Humidity (%): 7
[16:19] <mixio> Barometric pressure (mb): 995
[16:19] <mixio> PUBX,00,161904.00,0000.00000,N,00000.00000,E,0.000,NF,6538630,4619575,0.000,0.00,0.000,,99.99,99.99,99.99,0,0,0
[16:20] <mixio> 161904H0000000X/00000000YO000/000/A=000000/SLAROS Unknown command
[16:20] <SamSilver> nice decifer
[16:21] <SamSilver> System voltage 3227?
[16:21] <mixio> 3.2v
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> so the board seems to work?
[16:23] <SamSilver> do you have currant amprage used
[16:23] <mixio> yes its transmitting most of the aprs messages
[16:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:24] <SamSilver> what is your power off take? How many milli amps per hour? Battery capacity?
[16:24] <Lunar_Lander> but it could do RTTY right?
[16:24] <Lunar_Lander> only a matter of programming?
[16:25] <mixio> im not doing rtty
[16:25] <Lunar_Lander> yeah but I'd do that
[16:25] <mixio> if u program it yeag
[16:25] <Lunar_Lander> I can't use APRS before I have my license
[16:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:26] <Lunar_Lander> so only a software change
[16:26] <mixio> mine does aprs->ax25->afsk->radio
[16:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:27] <mixio> SamSilver: i havent done any measures. Last time with simple alkalines AA it run for 10hours
[16:28] <SamSilver> well my friend you are doing well .... very well
[16:29] <mixio> but its going to have lithium AAs during real flight
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[16:32] <SamSilver> mixio: I am going to solder mine together
[16:32] <SamSilver> how will you connect you battries?
[16:32] <SamSilver> your*
[16:33] <SamSilver> Holder with zip-ties?
[16:33] <SamSilver> duct-tape and springs?
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> trained kittens.
[16:34] <SamSilver> I lie awake at night thinking about these things
[16:34] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: now we talking
[16:35] <SamSilver> KlingSpan rules!!
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[16:37] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: help me out ... King span insulation???\
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> what about it?
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kingspan-Insulation-Board-110-120mm-/290575667049?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43a7a8cf69
[16:39] <SamSilver> yes
[16:40] <SamSilver> will you ever fly that stuff?
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> umm - what?
[16:41] <SamSilver> off at a tangent
[16:41] <SamSilver> I aqm
[16:41] <SamSilver> am
[16:42] <SamSilver> Kingspan is good enough for your home but would you send it into near-space???
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> It works, in principle.
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> It's maybe a bit more hard to work with than polystyrene - but it's fine.
[16:43] <SamSilver> mmhh I see you are a bit vauge on thermo-dinamics ???
[16:43] <SamSilver> lol
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> What do you mean - you're spewing random crap seemingly.
[16:43] <SpeedEvil> Ask a sensible question.
[16:44] <SamSilver> no
[16:44] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: not at all
[16:45] <SamSilver> I liked your approach to heat retention
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> I have no idea what you're talking about
[16:46] <SamSilver> SpeedEvil: when you started your renovations
[16:46] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[16:46] <SamSilver> I was looking at your pics
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Going much slower than I'd hoped.
[16:47] <SamSilver> and i was just keen to know how they where going
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> I'm not really doing anything that wouldn't be required by new building regs.
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> And bloody slowly.
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> I have very little energy to do this.
[16:47] <SamSilver> heat pump?\
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Heat pump is not a rapid return.
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> It's interesting in principle, buit you cannot get cheap liquid-liquid heat pumps.
[16:48] <SamSilver> I understand
[16:49] <SamSilver> unless you get to the core of the magna!!!
[16:49] <Lunar_Lander> magma?
[16:49] <SamSilver> go big go deeep!!
[16:50] <SamSilver> magna
[16:50] <SamSilver> oppa MAGNA
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> Geothermal direct heating is only practical in a very few areas.
[16:50] <SpeedEvil> This is not one of them
[16:50] <SamSilver> lol
[16:50] <SamSilver> move to alaska
[16:50] <fsphil> brrr it's freezing here today, would love a bit of lava :)
[16:51] <SamSilver> fsphil: lol
[16:51] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/140560702341
[16:51] <fsphil> lol, knew that was coming
[16:52] <SamSilver> Geothermal direct heating is good anywhere if you go deep enough!!
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL
[16:52] <fsphil> today ends my notam and I've two balloons and half a tank of helium left
[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> oh damn :(
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: :/
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> SamSilver: Sure - if you'll lend me a drilling rig - I'll install it.
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> I need at least several kilometers down though
[16:54] <SamSilver> I have to love and leave you all bbl
[16:55] <SamSilver> thanx for the fun
[16:55] <SpeedEvil> wave
[16:55] <SamSilver> gnight
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[16:58] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: you pinged me a day or two ago :P
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[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[18:02] <fsphil> howdy Lunar_Lander :)
[18:02] <mixio> im so happy
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[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:03] <fsphil> my internet seems a bit choppy today
[18:03] <mixio> whole system runs nice
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> the Chat fails all the time!
[18:03] <Lunar_Lander> so the board is OK?
[18:03] <mixio> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=SW2HYX-11&limit=100&view=normal
[18:04] <mixio> and i can have by xml all data available
[18:04] <mixio> http://api.aprs.fi/api/get?what=loc&name=SW2HYX-11&apikey=24256.1aj8jKCnKT7Ce9&format=xml
[18:05] <mixio> so if my ground station does not receive something and some other station on the planet receives it will put it to aprs.fi
[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> LOL near Mablethorpe is really "Miami Beach"?
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[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> hi Dan-K2VOL
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Kevin
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> oh good, busy, took a 3 hour drive yesterday to see a friend's wedding, and stopped on the way back to a brass band festival in a small town
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL> how about you
[18:19] <fsphil> planned to visit the festival, or just found it randomly on the way home?
[18:21] <kopijs> hi
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[18:21] <fsphil> hiya kopijs
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[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> I'm a bit with like
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> full nose
[18:22] <Dan-K2VOL> my nice girlfriend had discovered it would be on the way home from the wedding before we went. it was late, but got to hear the tail end of the brass section of a well known band do some classic marches
[18:22] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> btw when you like music
[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> did you enjoy the Google Guitar?
[18:23] <fsphil> man our office was a noisy place that morning
[18:23] <Dan-K2VOL> haha I did, that was fun lol
[18:24] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:55] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: you pinged me a few days ago :P did you need anything>
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> priyesh
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander>because of the Apex II geiger counters
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander>the graphs show that on both flights, the counters dropped to 0 above 20 km
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander>and there was now a flight in Germany on June 5
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander>http://p56.de/ballonprojekt/20110605/strahlung900.jpg
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander>as you can see, the reading also drops to 0 above 20 km
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander>they suspect that the counters were affected by low pressure
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander>do you have an idea why this happened to your counters?
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[19:00] <priyesh> Lunar_Lander: just asking the team now.. that's quite interesting!
[19:00] <andrew_apex> i was the person who designed the geiger counter circuit
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:02] <andrew_apex> it does seem to be pressure related - in the two apex two flights, the counters stopped working at similar altitudes
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:02] <andrew_apex> the temperatures were very different, so it's probably not temperature caused. Plus the tubes had been tested to -60C by the manufacturer
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> did you have the chance of a pressure chamber test?
[19:03] <andrew_apex> no - we've still got the tubes though, so that's definitly something to try.
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> do you have a wire to a physics department of a university?
[19:05] <andrew_apex> a wire :S?
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> a contact :)
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> in german, if you have a good contact to someone you say "Einen Draht zu jemand haben"
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> "Having a wire to somebody"
[19:07] <andrew_apex> the temperature test was done by the manufacturer - Apex has members at Cambridge and Southampton (although no-one studying physics..) - I'm sure we can get our hands on a proper vacuum chamber. If not, the school has a vacuum pump that (says) it goes down to 1 torr
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> that is good
[19:08] <andrew_apex> I don't believe it - it's a pretty old clunky pump
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> 1 torr is about 45.6 km in altitude
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> in the US Standard atmosphere of 1976
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[19:30] <Lunar_Lander> andrew_apex do you have a circuit diagram of the Geiger circuit
[19:31] <andrew_apex> Lunar_Lander: somewhere - can you pm me your email?
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:47] <BrainDamage> out of curiosity, what tubes did you use?
[19:48] <andrew_apex> I'll look it up...
[19:48] <andrew_apex> We used two ZP1200 tubes, manufactured (and kindly donated) by Centronics
[19:51] <BrainDamage> thanks
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[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> andrew_apex I need to find out what tubes were used on June 5
[20:04] <andrew_apex> The model? They were ZP1200s as well
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> no I mean on the German balloon
[20:06] <andrew_apex> oh right, June 5 ;)
[20:06] <andrew_apex> good question :D
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:06] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:12] Nick change: sbasuita_ -> sbasuita
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> and we need to find cases with counters that worked at 20+ km
[20:13] <andrew_apex> let me know if you find any
[20:24] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone ever play with any RFID sensors?
[20:24] <Dan-K2VOL> as in temperature sensors that were powered and communicated with via RFID
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> wl.
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> will do andrew_apex
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL to have the sensos without wires?
[20:39] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
[20:40] <Dan-K2VOL> for a proj unrelated to balloons
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[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:23] <m1x10> hi all
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> board still running?
[23:24] <m1x10> pcb was transmitting from 19:00 until 01:50
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> good data?
[23:26] <m1x10> yea normal
[23:26] <m1x10> almost 7hrs with alkalines
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> good
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> do you have a log file?
[23:31] <m1x10> no
[23:31] <m1x10> but sd is alive
[23:32] <m1x10> just need a couple of lines code
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[23:37] <m1x10> i think code is written i just have it in comments
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good
[00:00] --- Mon Jun 13 2011