highaltitude.log.20110608

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[00:23] <Elwell> Hibby: nice shot of the burst in the vid btw
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[00:24] <russss> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/multimedia/e27depart.html
[00:24] <russss> Shuttle/ISS photos ^
[00:26] <russss> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/557590main_iss027e036747_full.jpg
[00:26] <Elwell> ah - watched the soyuz undoc so that'd be when they were taken. forgot about them
[00:27] <russss> yeah, it took a while for them to materialise.
[00:27] <Elwell> (sadly cloudy tonight -- ISS was good n bright last night)
[00:27] <russss> first ever photos of the shuttle docked to the ISS
[00:27] <russss> and the last of course.
[00:30] <Elwell> was listening to the commentary -- get the cards out of camera, cos cameras are left in part of soyuz that burns up
[00:31] <russss> what a waste of decent cameras
[00:31] <russss> the annoying thing with most of these images is that they're not that photogenic
[00:32] <russss> the sun is clearly behind the soyuz, so all the solar panels point towards it kind of awkwardly
[00:32] <russss> I think this one is probably the best http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/557133main_iss027e036636_full.jpg
[00:33] <russss> although it's a weird perspective on the shuttle
[00:34] <russss> (also that peeling radiator panel really annoys me)
[00:34] <Elwell> also annoying its only the 1st few that AMS is visible in
[00:34] <Hibby> Elwell: was pretty good, eh?
[00:35] <Elwell> aye. ahame about fogging
[00:35] <Hibby> totally.
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[05:57] <RocketBoy> !lseen NigeyS
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[07:11] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:11] <jcoxon> anyone around?
[07:11] <eroomde> morning jcoxon
[07:11] <eroomde> all ticketyboo?
[07:11] <jcoxon> indeedy
[07:11] <jcoxon> question about registers
[07:11] <eroomde> present
[07:12] <jcoxon> so with hte spi rtc i'm playing with to enable an alarm i need to change a bit of the register
[07:12] <jcoxon> from 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 to 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1
[07:12] <jcoxon> is it a matter of working out the hex of 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 and sending that?
[07:13] <jonsowman> REG |= (1<<0);
[07:13] <jcoxon> (i know the micro sees them all the same)
[07:13] <eroomde> yes, with things like that you usually just have to send and over-write the entire byte
[07:13] <eroomde> no masking or nuthin
[07:14] <jonsowman> well, you can read the byte, then do the above, then write it
[07:14] <eroomde> oh true, i see perhaps what you were asking now
[07:15] <eroomde> if you just want to change a bit without parsing the state of everything else in the register
[07:15] <jcoxon> this is more for inital settings
[07:15] <jcoxon> but i understand what you mean jonsowman for on the fly changes
[07:16] <jonsowman> personally I would still set individual bits for initial settings, it makes the code more transparent
[07:16] <jonsowman> otherwise you'll come back to it and have to work out what writing 0x41 to a register is actually doing for each bit
[07:17] <jonsowman> I think REG |= (1<<SPIEN) | (1<<SPI2X); is clearer
[07:17] <jonsowman> but yes, personal preference on that :)
[07:18] <eroomde> agreed
[07:18] <jcoxon> and is it standard to be able to write a number of registers in a row
[07:19] <jcoxon> looking at this lib i guess it must be
[07:19] <jonsowman> yup, sure
[07:19] <jonsowman> nothing wrong with that stylistically afaik
[07:19] <jcoxon> https://github.com/maniacbug/RTClib/blob/master/RTC_DS3234.cpp#L61
[07:22] <jonsowman> oh I didn't know jeelabs made a library for those rtcs
[07:22] <jcoxon> oh its a fork of the original jeelabls lib
[07:22] <jcoxon> for the ds3234
[07:22] <jonsowman> ah right
[07:22] <jonsowman> still, will bear that in mind, I like the 3234 :)
[07:22] <jcoxon> and i've forked it myself to add alarms
[07:23] <jonsowman> cool
[07:26] <jcoxon> there is a high chance that i'll get it all wrong though :-)
[07:26] <Darkside> foxhunting championships this weekend!
[07:26] <Darkside> juxta and i are going
[07:26] <jonsowman> hehe, it'll work eventually with some playing with :) i doubt you'll actually permanently harm it
[07:30] <jonsowman> bbl
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[07:36] <eroomde> Darkside: it's illegal in the UK now
[07:36] <Darkside> eroomde: by foxhunting i mean radio foxhunting
[07:36] <Darkside> not actually shooting foxes
[07:37] <eroomde> well, a pack of hounds
[07:37] <eroomde> but fine, i see
[07:37] <eroomde> that conjures up an amusing image
[07:37] <Darkside> yeah
[07:37] <eroomde> men on horseback with bright red uniforms, charging across the countryside, waving yagis
[07:37] <Darkside> haha
[07:37] <Darkside> oh man
[07:37] <Darkside> thats an awesome idea
[07:38] <Darkside> we just use 4wds: http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2011-05-21_Foxhunting_Prep/
[07:38] <eroomde> gosh
[07:38] <eroomde> ...
[07:38] <eroomde> it's possible to take this quite seriously then
[07:38] <Darkside> yup
[07:39] <eroomde> cute keyboard http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2011-05-21_Foxhunting_Prep/Pages/3.html
[07:39] <Darkside> heh, i hate it
[07:39] <Darkside> but its the only one that'll fit easily
[07:39] <Darkside> i often use my laptop instead
[07:40] <eroomde> what's the basis of the structure the holds everything for the rear passenger there?
[07:41] <Darkside> eh?
[07:41] <Darkside> you mean the centre screen and radios?
[07:41] <eroomde> yep
[07:41] <Darkside> theres a metal frame in there
[07:42] <eroomde> custom?
[07:42] <Darkside> ep
[07:42] <Darkside> yep
[07:42] <eroomde> nice
[07:42] <eroomde> i am impressed
[07:42] <Darkside> pretty much everything in that truck is custom
[07:42] <eroomde> it's like a mobile command station
[07:42] <Darkside> we use it for balloon launches too
[07:42] <Darkside> :)
[07:42] <eroomde> i'd love to get a landcruiser for such a purpose
[07:42] <eroomde> might see if new job can stretch to one
[07:44] <Darkside> heh
[08:14] <juxta> eroomde, heard there was a job in the pipeline - congrats :)
[08:22] <eroomde> thanks juxta !
[08:22] <eroomde> right bbl
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[09:24] <Elwell> (re foxhunt truck) uhm. thats err dedicated :-)
[09:25] <Elwell> anyone have an idea of the minimum (size / cost) hardware I'd need to be able to run soundmodem
[09:27] <Elwell> want a cheap-as, compact-as 'tracking' box. (fvvo tracking - APRS, baloons etc) - suspect using funcube dongle will be cheapest / most compact radio end. now need the 'decoding' part
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[10:11] <griffonbot> Received email: Oliver de Peyer Astrobiologist "[UKHAS] Patch antennae? Re: interesting item on ebay?"
[10:26] <GW8RAK> Some talk yesterday about Apple's Cloud.
[10:26] <GW8RAK> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/apple-fans-demand-perfectly-designed-box-for-icloud-201106073914/
[10:35] <fsphil> Elwell, soundmodem won't work directly with the funcube dongle unless you fancy hacking soundmodem to do FM demodulation :)
[10:36] <Darkside> you'd need to pipe the data from the funcube through something like spectravue, or quisk
[10:36] <Darkside> gnuradio would do it too
[10:43] <fsphil> could even use something better than AFSK
[10:43] <fsphil> though not an option of it has to be compatible with other stations
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[10:44] <Darkside> mm
[10:44] <Darkside> i've been trying to do PSK using an AD9835
[10:45] <Darkside> but i can't seem to get the phase registers programmed properly
[10:45] <Darkside> might have better luck with my proper HF board, using an XMega
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[11:05] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "[UKHAS] Patch antennae? Re: interesting item on ebay?"
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[11:37] <Laurenceb> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2011-05-21_Foxhunting_Prep/
[11:37] <Laurenceb> thats insane :P
[11:37] <Laurenceb> in a good way
[11:38] <Darkside> :P
[11:38] <Darkside> we'll really be testing it out at the comp this weekend
[11:39] <Darkside> i'll try and run a live video stream from the truck
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[11:46] <fsphil> you launching this weekend?
[11:46] <fsphil> or just a DF competition?
[11:46] <Darkside> df comp
[11:46] <Darkside> we might be chasing some met balloons too
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[12:59] <fsphil> some of the pictures I got from the little serial camera look more like Mars than Earth -- I'm wondering for next time should I put an IR filter over it, and if I do how to stop it fogging up
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[13:06] <Laurenceb> uv filter may help more
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[13:18] <Dan-K2VOL> Morning gents
[13:27] <fsphil> you think it's a UV problem more than IR?
[13:27] <fsphil> hiya Dan-K2VOL
[13:27] <eroomde> mornign Dan-K2VOL
[13:27] <eroomde> afternoon here, even
[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh it is isn't it
[13:28] <Dan-K2VOL> I get out of bed at noon over there :-P
[13:29] <fsphil> I go to bed early ... EST :)
[13:29] <eroomde> I went to the master students thesis presentations today
[13:30] <eroomde> 10 mins to present their last year's work, then 5 mins q&a
[13:30] <Dan-K2VOL> That seems light eroomde
[13:30] <eroomde> it's the very last part of degree, as of lunchtime they're all free
[13:30] <eroomde> was the nicest feeling ever when i did it last year
[13:31] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: yep it's fairly whistle-stop
[13:31] <eroomde> but it's not for many marks
[13:33] <Dan-K2VOL> Interesting
[13:33] <Dan-K2VOL> But a nice thing to be done and free
[13:33] <eroomde> yup very
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[14:34] <Dan-K2VOL> Anyone have an opinion on any of the cheap logic analyzers?
[14:35] <Laurenceb> oh noes
[14:35] <Laurenceb> i cant see human centipede 2 at the cinema
[14:35] <Dan-K2VOL> Haha
[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> Too crappy for the high standards of the theater?
[14:36] <Laurenceb> refused classification in the UK
[14:37] <Laurenceb> in other words they banned it :(
[14:38] <Dan-K2VOL> Ah well, not much of a loss I would imagine lol, I'm sure it's already on bittorrent
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[14:45] <fsphil> nice to see some ipv6 activity today :)
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh what are you seeing phil
[14:54] <Hibby> might go to the uni and play with radios
[14:54] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, it's world ipv6 day today -- lots of websites with ipv6 enabled now
[14:55] <fsphil> our own has been for a long time, but I see an increase in activity there too
[14:55] <Dan-K2VOL> nice, I was wondering if you were peeking serverside
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> ISPs don't really seem to care much about it here in the states, I've never had one that would route IPv6
[14:56] <fsphil> not too many here yet either
[14:56] <Dan-K2VOL> I've had an HE IPv6 tunnel for a while to my Airport base station though
[14:56] <fsphil> my last isp didn't, saying not enough demand
[14:56] <fsphil> the current one does it natively
[14:57] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice!
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[15:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Did you guys all see that delorme InReach announcement?
[15:52] <eroomde> ?
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> ?
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL> promising looking 2-way iridium txt-messenger: http://blog.delorme.com/2011/06/03/delorme-inreach-two-way-satellite-communication/
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[15:54] <eroomde> NICE
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Price is interesting.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Err - would be.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> though i note the recent complaints of the mountain rescue people.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> That people think a GPS alone is adequate for mountains.
[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL> I've pinged the blog writer to see if the HAB community can get some love from DeLorme in terms of a documented serial protocol for the Bluetooth interface
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[16:09] <kd0mto> Oh man, I need to build that rocket guidance system. I think I have a great and possible legal application for it with HAB payloads.
[16:11] <eroomde> guiding a rocket?
[16:11] <kd0mto> Yes.
[16:12] <eroomde> what's the applications with hab payloads tho - rockets launched from balloons?
[16:13] <kd0mto> Basically, enough guidance so you can launch from a not vertical access to get around the balloon on a HAB payload then go straight up. By the time the rocket gets past the balloon I'm sure the air is two thin for guidance but who cares, BIG ALTITUDES!
[16:13] <eroomde> we got round the problem of avoiding the balloon
[16:13] <kd0mto> Yeah, rockets launched from HAB payloads allow for a lot of fun experiments measuring radiation.
[16:14] <kd0mto> There are a few methods, but in the end some minor guidance at the start would be pretty sweet.
[16:14] <Dan-K2VOL> kd0mto why avoid the balloon? It's not really an obstacle that will affect the rocket much
[16:14] <eroomde> yes, that was our solution: don't
[16:14] <eroomde> just fly through the thing
[16:16] <kd0mto> Yeah but the problem is that depending on what happens it can screw with the rocket. Given the patterns, it is possible that rocket may land in a different country which is a problem here in the US. Mexico does not want us to invade their air space even though the launch would be at Black Rock (some place as Burning Man).
[16:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I think you overestimate the rockets
[16:17] <kd0mto> Our simulations that we ran showed a distinct possibility.
[16:18] <eroomde> yeah, our rockoon simms with about 300km crossrange from balloon if things go awry
[16:18] <kd0mto> And where our launch was the jet stream was in that cross range.
[16:19] <kd0mto> You hit that, game over on recovery.
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb has done some sims of an orbital launch system using a CF tube, with commercial reloads, and a couple of stages
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> sounds like typical balloon range really
[16:21] <Dan-K2VOL> rockoons have been done, but the amount of helium needed and size of balloon required to lift an orbital rocket system get real expensive, and big balloons are expensive to make mistakes with
[16:21] <kf5kwe> never thought i would be thinking this long on what rope to use
[16:22] <eroomde> also the energy advantage you gain from launching from 30km are really just piss-all for orbit
[16:22] <eroomde> i really don't think worth it given the added complexity of launch
[16:22] <natrium42> kf5kwe: don't do it, you have your whole life ahead of you :(
[16:22] <eroomde> it's a whole different game for 100km parabolas though
[16:22] <kf5kwe> haha
[16:23] <kf5kwe> im thinking 50lb line range so not quite that kind of rope
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> for suborbital I think it may be an economical gain to balloon launch, but I agree eroomde for orbital it sounds like it's not worth it
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: the only case it's not negligable - pretty much - is for very small launchers.
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> kf5kwe I'd recommend a much higher strength line, and use a small breakaway segment, or spring-latch that breaks before 50lb
[16:24] <kf5kwe> I've done zero rope work before so im clueless
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[16:25] <kf5kwe> find myself struggling with the terms even...cord, rope, string...knots
[16:25] <kf5kwe> probably going to get something from home depot...
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> Buy braided nylon if you can, it's got some stretch to it, and ties much easier than twisted nylon
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[16:27] <eroomde> we got ours in bright orange
[16:27] <eroomde> surprisingly visible from afar, even though it's so thin
[16:27] <kf5kwe> well i could go get some on ebay
[16:27] <eroomde> just by contrast with the green it lands on
[16:27] <Laurenceb> with small launchers you can only use a rockoon
[16:27] <Laurenceb> otherwise you may as well fire into a contrete wall
[16:27] <Laurenceb> its that bad
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> not quite.
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> You can swap the rockoon for a long-burning 0th stage
[16:28] <Laurenceb> well unless you go for slow buring
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> but it needs to burn for well over a minute.
[16:28] <Laurenceb> but thats all kind of hard
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> yes - it pretty much implies liquid
[16:28] <Laurenceb> unless you have regen cooled liquid engines
[16:28] <SpeedEvil> and the scale implies regen cooling
[16:28] <Laurenceb> but thats already up the armadillo aerospace levels of complexity
[16:29] <SpeedEvil> (or radiative cooling - but iridium isn't cheap enough
[16:29] <Laurenceb> solid works nicely if you use a rockoon
[16:29] <Laurenceb> you can have a 15 to 20 seconds first stage burn and its ok
[16:29] <kf5kwe> So how do you guys handle the payload, i was going to cut some foam up and make my own, see lots using foam coolers
[16:30] <SpeedEvil> works fine.
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[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> kf5kwe it really can be anything that gives you a little insulation. One guy tapes his to black foam-core and wraps one layer of bubble wrap over the boards! Works fine in the daytime
[16:32] <TangoAlpha> i bought some of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-x-Polystyrene-Thermo-insulating-Boxes-230x150x124mm-/260788739304
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[16:32] <kf5kwe> i got a big block of foam from a hobby shop for 7$
[16:33] <kf5kwe> and i have some foam epoxy, figured I would cut it up and make my own :D
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[16:35] <kf5kwe> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100318177/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
[16:36] <kf5kwe> bright enough?
[16:37] <kf5kwe> braided too, not sure on test though
[16:38] <jonsowman> eroomde: ublox 6s arrived
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[16:41] <eroomde> jonsowman: aweome!
[16:42] <jonsowman> they are very pretty and small :D
[16:43] <eroomde> someone here mentioned that the timing ones provide a 10MHz gps-disciplined clock line
[16:43] <eroomde> which could be super-useful for things like drift compensation in radios
[16:43] <eroomde> and just a system clock
[16:45] <SamSilver> later
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[16:46] <eroomde> anyone know how to splice a bunch of pdf files together in linux?
[16:46] <jonsowman> pdfcat
[16:46] <jonsowman> or something?
[16:46] <Hibby> i've used ghostscript too
[16:46] <jonsowman> can't remember the package name
[16:47] <Hibby> aye
[16:47] <Hibby> gs
[16:47] <jonsowman> or pdftk
[16:47] <Hibby> both, I think.
[16:47] Action: Hibby looks through command history, lol
[16:48] <jonsowman> yeah pdftk was the one I was thinking of
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[17:09] <eroomde> ta
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[17:26] <Dan-K2VOL> What's the site for buying balloons in the UK?
[17:33] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Welcome.html
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[17:38] <fsphil> woo - tornado not far from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13704497
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[17:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Thx phil
[17:53] <Dan-K2VOL> Is Randomskk the curator there?
[17:54] <fsphil> RocketBoy's the guy in charge of that site
[17:54] <Dan-K2VOL> Gotcha
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[17:56] <Randomskk> yea, total coincidence
[17:58] <Dan-K2VOL> Haha np thanks randomskk
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[18:03] <jcoxon> afternoon
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[18:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Afternoon James
[18:28] <eroomde> evening*
[18:28] <eroomde> keep up Dan-K2VOL
[18:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[18:32] <jcoxon> eroomde, i guess is started it
[18:32] <eroomde> oh yes
[18:32] <eroomde> sorry Dan-K2VOL
[18:32] <eroomde> it's evening jcoxon
[18:36] <jcoxon> yeah i know
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[18:44] <jcoxon> bbl
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[18:55] <Dan-K2VOL> Lol
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[19:17] Nick change: rambo -> kd0mto
[19:26] <fsphil> [ot] anyone know a linux app for managing memory channels on a yaesu rig?
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[19:36] <Elwell> virtualbox or wine (ducks)
[19:37] <jonsowman> depends what the program is
[19:37] <jonsowman> wine works really nicely for some things, e.g. spotify
[19:37] <fsphil> I'm using the linux spotify client, mostly works
[19:38] <jonsowman> yeah
[19:38] <jonsowman> in the days when it didn't (exist), running it under wine worked excellently
[19:39] <Elwell> sadly I'm too cheepskate to go for the full allow offnet access plan
[19:39] <Elwell> and they don't (last time I looked) cover .ch
[19:39] <jonsowman> what are you trying to run under vbox/wine?
[19:41] <fsphil> I was just wondering about a linux app for managing the memory on a yaesu rig
[19:41] <fsphil> there's plenty of windows apps, nothing on linux
[19:42] <Hibby> fsphil: get writing
[19:43] <fsphil> thinking that
[19:43] <Elwell> make it portable enough to do the wouxun handheld too please
[19:44] <fsphil> thinking of getting one of those
[19:45] <fsphil> used one over the weekend, worked pretty well
[19:47] <Hibby> fsphil: i've got a single band version
[19:47] <Hibby> totally satisfied with it
[19:48] <fsphil> there's quite a few different models on the website, a lot seem to be almost the same
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[20:11] <jcoxon> back
[20:12] <natrium42> in black
[20:12] <jcoxon> thats me!
[20:12] <fsphil> to the future
[20:12] <jcoxon> hey natrium42 and fsphil
[20:15] <natrium42> yo
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[20:26] <Dan-K2VOL> Hi all
[20:26] <jcoxon> hey Dan-K2VOL
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL> So I emailed the guy at DeLorme about the InReach
[20:27] <natrium42> cool, any reply?
[20:27] <Dan-K2VOL> He said that they're still in the development stage of it, so he's not sure if the bluetooth protocol will be documented
[20:28] <natrium42> bluetooth is easy to reverse engineer
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL> But he said that such balloon projects sound cool
[20:28] <eroomde> that's basically a yes
[20:28] <Dan-K2VOL> So, perhaps he'll make our lives easier and put in a good word with PR and let them just publish a bluetooth serial API
[20:29] <eroomde> when the developers say 'no plans but hey, that looks really cool' it's always a good sign
[20:30] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, it must be documented somewhere :-)
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> true, not hard, but it will be easier for the average joes if it supported a simple protocol out of the box that didn't require
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> mods
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> I think so too eroomde :-)
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[20:33] Action: Laurenceb_ has pitot tube working
[20:33] <Laurenceb_> only 130Pa offset on the honeywell 26pc01smt
[20:34] <BrainDamage> what did you use as actual tube?
[20:34] <BrainDamage> or you directly applied deltaP to the sensor?
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> nothing yet
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> ive got something planned involving fishing kit off ebay
[20:35] <Laurenceb_> but atm my finger over some side is ~1Kpa
[20:36] <BrainDamage> ok, the second
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> second side? open to atmosphere
[20:36] <Laurenceb_> its hard to find 1mm diameter silicone tube but ive ordered some from ebay now
[20:37] <BrainDamage> no, I mean the second of my 2 choices :p
[20:37] <BrainDamage> applying directly deltaP
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> oh lol
[20:37] <BrainDamage> does it have to be silicone? I think you could simply use heatshrink tubing
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> i could blow on it but i downt want spit on the gps impedance matching network
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> heatshring is a bit crushable
[20:38] <BrainDamage> or at 1mm diam, you could even use a wire insulation
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> it has to be router through the fuselage to the nose
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> yeah maybe
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> ive found some nice hose thats use for fishing nets... or something
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> need to order the flying wings v-trainer soon :P
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> talking of flyingwings - http://www.flyingwings.co.uk/store/product_info.php?cPath=174&products_id=830&osCsid=gscseujoxjjcx
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[20:46] <Laurenceb_> but that board is lame - they ate all the ram using too much multitasking, and removed the ekf for a implementation of the diydrones algorithm
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[21:16] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:16] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
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[00:00] --- Thu Jun 9 2011