highaltitude.log.20110529

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[08:16] <SamSilver> bbl
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[08:34] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:38] <eroomde> mornign jcoxon
[08:38] <eroomde> all well?
[08:38] <jcoxon> yes thansk
[08:38] <jcoxon> just install slackware in a VM
[08:38] <jcoxon> and you?
[08:38] <eroomde> thansk - a city in siberia?
[08:38] <eroomde> i'm very well thanks
[08:39] <eroomde> i was at the AIAA Aerodynamic decelerators conference (parachutes, airbags etc) last week in dublin
[08:39] <jcoxon> ooo
[08:39] <jcoxon> did it go well?
[08:39] <eroomde> met all my idols like the jpl guys who developed the pathfinder and spirit/opportunity landing systems
[08:39] <eroomde> yeah it went really well - our esa testing stuff won best student paper
[08:41] <jcoxon> awesome
[08:41] <jcoxon> get a prize?
[08:41] <eroomde> yup :)
[08:41] <eroomde> but really my happy thing was meeting all these guys
[08:42] <jcoxon> networking :-)
[08:42] <eroomde> doing a jig at 3am in a pub with tom rivellini who was about my age when he came up with the idea of trying airbags to landing something on another planet, which seemed bat-shit crazy at the time
[08:43] <jcoxon> haha
[08:43] <jcoxon> they offered you a job then?
[08:43] <eroomde> bit of a moment for me :)
[08:43] <eroomde> yep, got a few job offers in. won't say anything more until I have confirmed some stuff next week!
[08:44] <Hiena> Sounds, how the next-gen invetion begun. Smart folks get plastered at the bar...
[08:44] <jcoxon> eroomde, best of lukc
[08:44] <jcoxon> luck*
[08:44] Action: jcoxon is jealous
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[09:05] <fsphil> eroomde, in 10 years: http://twitpic.com/53w3io
[09:05] <eroomde> that'd be fN!
[09:27] <fsphil> glad I'm not launching this weekend, it's really windy out there
[09:28] <fsphil> would have been chaos
[09:37] <cuddykid> a good weekend to solder the temp sensors in, wind should blow those horrible fumes away!
[09:38] <Darkside> horrible fumes?
[09:38] <Darkside> you haven't grown to love them yet?
[09:39] <cuddykid> lol, no
[09:39] <Darkside> you will... you will...
[09:39] <cuddykid> last time i got a massive waft of them haha
[09:39] <fsphil> indeed lol
[09:39] <cuddykid> haha
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[11:08] <Laurenceb_> jcoxon:ping
[11:13] <cuddykid> how would I go about sending digital commands (like a string or something) to my FT-817 from my comp?
[11:14] <fsphil> for an uplink?
[11:14] <cuddykid> yeah
[11:14] <fsphil> you'd need to use fldigi and the proper sound card interface -- also an amateur license
[11:15] <cuddykid> oh right, more complicated than I thought! haha
[11:15] <eroomde> you'll be pleased to hear that the 'harware' part is pretty easy
[11:15] <eroomde> but you need some way of generating the sounds you want to send and of course as fsphil says you *absolutely* need a license
[11:16] <cuddykid> hmm, probably won't be attempting uplink too soon then lol
[11:16] <fsphil> the NTX2 is legal without the license, but likely nowhere near the power level needed for that range
[11:17] <eroomde> it's not that hard tbh
[11:17] <eroomde> things like dtmf have been used by amateurs for years and are quite simple to do
[11:17] <eroomde> but you should seriously consider getting a license anyway!
[11:17] <fsphil> the project horus and ihab guys use DTMF I believe
[11:17] <cuddykid> oh right, how complicated is it/how much work to get a license?
[11:17] <eroomde> it's very easy and opens up a lot of possibities
[11:18] <cuddykid> would love to have an uplink
[11:18] <eroomde> cuddykid: do you know Ohm's Law?
[11:18] <fsphil> foundation license is really easy
[11:18] <cuddykid> eroomde yeah
[11:18] <eroomde> right
[11:18] <eroomde> well... that's as hard as the foundation license gets
[11:18] <eroomde> :)
[11:18] <cuddykid> oh wow! A level physics does come in handy then :P
[11:18] <eroomde> oh god yeah
[11:18] <eroomde> you'll be totally overqualified
[11:18] <cuddykid> haha
[11:19] <eroomde> and suddenly you can transmit
[11:19] <eroomde> and will learn enough in the process to know how to take a stab at all your wacky ideas
[11:19] <cuddykid> thats cool!
[11:19] <cuddykid> lol
[11:20] <eroomde> guys, if you've not seen this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7ZBLklsUys
[11:20] <eroomde> it really is a *fantastic* and inspiring talk
[11:25] <fsphil> I've heard a couple of good talks from the computer museum
[11:27] <eroomde> yeah
[11:27] <eroomde> a real youtube gem
[11:29] <mattltm> cuddykid: http://www.hamtests.co.uk/
[11:30] <cuddykid> thanks mattltm
[11:30] <eroomde> cuddykid: there are a few clubs in surrey
[11:30] <eroomde> send one an email and say you want to take a foundation
[11:30] <eroomde> they should be able to help you out
[11:30] <cuddykid> cool, I might take it in summer
[11:30] <jonsowman> i think SCRS are planning a foundation one soon
[11:31] <eroomde> ...
[11:31] <jonsowman> i can give you the email address of the guy that runs it if you want cuddykid
[11:31] <cuddykid> yeah ok, thanks jonsowman
[11:31] <jonsowman> sutton & cheam radio society
[11:31] <eroomde> every school on cbbc's 50:50 was from cheam
[11:31] <eroomde> i remember
[11:32] <jonsowman> haha
[11:32] <jonsowman> cuddykid: PM
[11:32] <cuddykid> got it
[11:32] <jonsowman> cool
[11:32] <cuddykid> :)
[11:42] <eroomde> gah coffee shakes
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[14:18] <cuddykid> hmm... been playing around with the 24" hexagonal chute I have... seems to me that the payload will come hurtling down with it! Will it be ok with a ~1kg payload? I seem to remember people saying it should just about be ok, but want to make sure!
[14:20] <cuddykid> yeah, saw that page, that's why I was rather worried! haha
[14:21] <jonsowman> out of interest cuddykid, did you get the message i left you via zeusbot?
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[14:36] <cuddykid> jonsowman, yeah, the one about xml?
[14:36] <cuddykid> how did you do that btw?!
[14:38] <jonsowman> last one :)
[14:38] <cuddykid> nice!
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[14:44] <Elwell> 's freenode - you can also use memoserv :-)
[14:45] <jonsowman> indeed
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[15:08] <griffonbot> Received email: "[UKHAS] interesting item on ebay?"
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[15:23] <chris_99> i bought a load of those (non gps version) at a ham fair
[15:23] <chris_99> to harvest the sensors
[15:24] <chris_99> afaik no-ones cracked the protocol those GPS ones use
[15:29] <cuddykid> need to get geohot on the job
[15:30] <chris_99> heh
[15:30] <cuddykid> but then he might be sued by metoffice lol
[15:33] <cuddykid> can anyone recommend some interesting sensors to integrate into payload? Need to be cheap (best if maxim samples!) and easily integratable.. got temp ones currently
[15:34] <jonsowman> freescale do some nice analog pressure ones
[15:34] <jonsowman> they only go down to ~150mb bar produce some nice graphs, can get those on sample
[15:34] <cuddykid> will have a look :) thanks
[15:34] <jonsowman> humidity sensors are pretty cheap too
[15:34] <cuddykid> yeah, was thinking about humidity
[15:35] <jonsowman> most of them are capacitive
[15:35] <jonsowman> we set one up using it as the capacitor in a 555 astable, then measured pulses in x seconds
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[15:54] <cuddykid> right, time to test updated payload system
[15:59] <cuddykid> jonsowman: the internal and external temps aren't being displayed on spacenear tracker, is it possible to add them?
[16:00] <jonsowman> they won't be by default, requires custom things to be added to spacenear
[16:01] <jonsowman> it's a fair amount of work, but I can probably do it for you at some point
[16:01] <cuddykid> ahh right
[16:01] <jonsowman> natrium42 can also do it
[16:01] <cuddykid> oh no worry
[16:01] <jonsowman> when are you planning to launch?
[16:01] <cuddykid> ok, if you do ever get a spare moment, would be hugely appreciated! But no rush
[16:01] <cuddykid> 1st week in july
[16:02] <jonsowman> yeah we'll get it done for you before then
[16:02] <cuddykid> many thanks :)
[16:02] <jonsowman> remind me in a few days, but also ask natrium42 when he's around
[16:02] <cuddykid> will do
[16:03] <jonsowman> where are you launching from?
[16:03] <cuddykid> hopefully worcester (still waiting on notam)
[16:03] <cuddykid> had a notam before but conditions weren't right
[16:03] <jonsowman> oh cool
[16:03] <jonsowman> I launched my first project from a school in Bromyard
[16:04] <cuddykid> not far! wow
[16:04] <cuddykid> seems to be some problems with restricted airspace to the east thought
[16:04] <jonsowman> yeah we had to move west a bit due to airport approach paths
[16:04] <cuddykid> birmingham airport and a big flight path nearby
[16:05] <jonsowman> yeah
[16:05] <cuddykid> :)
[16:05] <cuddykid> glad to have finally got everything working though, just have to hope my dodgy soldering holds out haha
[16:06] <jonsowman> http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=apex.hexoc.com/ukairspace.kmz
[16:08] <cuddykid> ahh, I see what he means now about the zone ~20miles east
[16:08] <jonsowman> yeah
[16:19] <Elwell> ah, I see from the above that there's unsuprisingly a big red splodge over spadeadam
[16:28] <Elwell> I'd still lovce to go and have a nosey round these buggers -> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=spadeadam&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.177128,64.599609&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Spadeadam,+Kingwater,+Cumbria,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.04004,-2.633028&spn=0.002281,0.005987&t=h&z=18
[16:28] <Elwell> ugh http://bit.ly/jZrWSY
[16:45] <cuddykid> another question.. currently my a570 is exposed to the elements (ie. just a whole in the payload box with no screen).. the camera should survive right?
[16:48] <eroomde> cuddykid: yep
[16:49] <eroomde> it generates quite a lot of its own heat
[16:49] <cuddykid> good :)
[16:49] <cuddykid> I'll try and separate the camera section from the main section of payload box to insulate the rest
[17:01] <Laurenceb_> can someone explain how alignment and structure padding works?
[17:01] <Laurenceb_> ive created a structure of some uint16 types and uint32
[17:01] <Laurenceb_> on stm32 every variable uses 32 bits it seems
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> Umm.
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> I think it depends on the compiler.
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/chapter6/bitfields.html ?
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> yeah... is this likely structure padding or alignment?
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> if i had a uint16_t on its own would it just use 16bits?
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> Depends how the compiler aligns it.
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> according to #openpilot its a padding issue
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> cased by the way gcc packs the variables into a strucure
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> Exactly.
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> Bitfields can fix that.
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> hmm having the uint32 types aligned makes the code less bloated apparently
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> It will, yes.
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> If you're hurting for RAM, then optimising your use of it can be good.
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> For example, you might pack all the shorts you use into an array
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> yeah im kind of aiming for both
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> Then for static stuff, it's up to teh preprocessor
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> fsa03 seems to be working a bit better - got 10 sats in living room last night
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> seems to mostly suffer from noise off usb cable
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> i still cant change baud rate - everything else changes ok, but it is stuck at 9600 baud
[17:24] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> im wondering if theres two versions of the fsa03 - 9600 and 38400 baud, and the slower one cant change baud rate
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[18:59] <Laurenceb_> ok turn out there ar e2 versions
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> i have the fixed 9600 one :(
[18:59] <Randomskk> :(
[18:59] <Randomskk> that's a bit rubbish
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> yes it can go down in speed but not up
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> i might get a media tec module
[19:00] <Randomskk> good thing you have dma I guess
[19:01] <Randomskk> can't you get a high speed fsa03? so it's the same footprint?
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> the lag is the pain
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> yes, but does anyone have one?
[19:01] <Randomskk> how do you tell?
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> the 2d barcode
[19:01] <Randomskk> is it a datamatrix? they typically have the number printed below as well
[19:02] <Randomskk> I wonder if I have an fsa03 around
[19:02] <Randomskk> haven't seen one so I doubt it
[19:02] <Randomskk> maybe jonsowman has
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> but im not 100% sure
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> theres a close up photo of mine.. so if its different :P
[19:04] <Randomskk> heh :P
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> or better check the version number stuff
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> i have it set to 5hz, high dynamics.. but its taking ages to lock
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> but it takes 145ms to chuck the data out
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> i could get it down to 50 by using ECEF
[19:07] <Laurenceb_> oh score locked
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> its wandering by +-15m or so... seems to be slow tho
[19:08] <Laurenceb_> might be as it turned sbas off
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> it looks more like ionospheric drifts.. actual noise noise is only a few meters
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> im running it at faster than datasheet spec, from what i can gather on forums and from ublox5 module experience it becomes dodgey with sbas enabled beyond 4hz
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> hmm maybe mediatec is the say to go
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> ok this is really bad - 30m deviations now.. but i am on the ground floor in the middle of my house with only 4 sats so i guess its kind of expected
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> aha think i see whats happening - insulation in roof is blocking the signals from above, so i have large vertical noise
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> +-25m vertical but only a few m horizonal XD
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[19:32] <cuddykid> note that will be affixed to outside of box created :)
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> hmm gps noise is interesting
[19:38] <Laurenceb_> massively correlated velocity noise.. wonder if theres a way to get the geometric info to put it into the ekf properly
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[20:05] <SpeedEvil> you mean move the GPS solver onto your CPU?
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[21:13] <Laurenceb_> no, just incorporate better noise knowledge
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> openpilot seems to have hardcoded gps noise :S
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> their mediatex with hacked firmware is kind of limited to data output aiui
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> I assume you're not constrained at a ll by CPU speed yet?
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> ll?
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> all
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> oh, i dont think so
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> openpilot ekf can run at 150hz
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> the gps baud limit is _really_ annoying tho
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[21:23] <Laurenceb_> i could .... dead bug a ublox6
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> bad ideas ++
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> i guess v1.0 was only ever intended for firmware dev, and its easily good enough for that
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[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFpeM3fxJoQ&feature=player_embedded
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Saw that - awesome.
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> Also - sigh at comments.
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> some god shit?
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> or so
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> or do you mean the guy with "why can you see the sun and the stars?"
[21:44] <Laurenceb_> crazy dynamic range sensor
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> or maybe HDR with interleaved frames to form the timelapse
[21:45] <BrainDamage> wow, that looks beautiful
[21:46] <Upu> Ever see this one ? : http://vimeo.com/11673745
[21:46] <Upu> looks amazing
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> both videos are awesome
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> look at the many holes on the airplane remains
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> bullet holes?
[21:52] <Upu> yeah
[21:52] <Upu> there are a few in iceland when I went there we found a crashed B52 in a glacier
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> and people use them for shooting practise?
[21:53] <Upu> https://picasaweb.google.com/upuaut/200409Iceland#5379093899336421186 <- Wife with a bit
[21:53] <Upu> the germans :)
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> is the plane remains to her feet?
[21:54] <BrainDamage> the day I'll have plenty of money and time to spare ( ahahaha, get the joke? ), I'll try to do the whatever name is road trip in iceland on a bike
[21:54] <BrainDamage> hopefully I won't be 60th by then
[21:55] <Upu> Yeah Lunar_Lander
[21:55] <Upu> they crashed into the glacier
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> oh shit
[21:55] <Upu> and disappeared in it
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:55] <Upu> as the glacier flows they re-appeared 50-60 years later
[21:55] <Lunar_Lander> :S
[21:55] <Upu> http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/vanished.shtml
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[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> Stendec
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> we'll never know what it means
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[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> in the other video it is funny to watch how the different blinds and flaps on the scope houses open and close all the time
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[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb_ in your video
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> "What is that? yellow "beam" at 2:43?"
[22:09] <Lunar_Lander> and the reply: "@Mocib thta called a laser, welcome to the 21st century mate? "
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[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> hi juxta
[22:59] <juxta> morning :)
[22:59] Action: juxta yawns
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[23:13] <Laurenceb_> odd - my machine just spontaneously rebooted
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> oh#
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[00:00] --- Mon May 30 2011