highaltitude.log.20110527

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[00:45] <Zuph> Woo, moving sucks.
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[02:07] <Darkside> so i think i killed a NTX2
[02:07] <Darkside> by feeding 5V into the enable pin
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[02:34] <Darkside> nope, neverine
[02:34] <Darkside> i didn't kill it
[02:37] <Darkside> also i've found using a voltage divider from one pin on an AVR to ground doesn't work very well for 300 baud
[02:37] <Darkside> i think the input capacitance on the NTX2 is too high for one pin to be ale to drive it
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[06:03] <Elwell> how resilient are the ntx2's?
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[07:00] <fsphil> Darkside, I've used one pin to drive an ntx2 up to 1200 baud
[07:02] <eroomde> Elwell: what sort of nastiness do you want to do to them?
[07:03] <eroomde> well anyway, i dont recall having one fail in flight, which certainly cannot be said for almost every other radio module we've tried
[07:03] <Elwell> I don't -- well, apart from mishandling when soldering / prototyping
[07:03] <fsphil> my first one got beat up on landing, worked fine
[07:03] <fsphil> the case was all bashed
[07:08] <eroomde> Elwell: I think it'll be fairly robust to that
[07:08] <eroomde> they're good things
[07:41] <fsphil> my only concern are that the pins seems very thin and breakable
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[07:41] <fsphil> though if they where any thicker, wouldn't be able to mount it flat on the pcb
[07:52] <SamSilver> Laurenceb: I found this for you: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1340&pagenumber=2&sort_on=&sort_by=
[08:00] <SamSilver> Laurenceb_: I found this for you: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1340&pagenumber=2&sort_on=&sort_by=
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[08:51] <griffonbot> Received email: Keni Barwick "Re: [UKHAS] Digest for ukhas@googlegroups.com - 8 Messages in 2 Topics"
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[09:56] <SamSilver> bbl
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[10:19] <cuddykid> hi all
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[10:19] <cuddykid> is there anyway to make an int only be +ve
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[10:19] <jonsowman> unsigned int
[10:20] <cuddykid> thanks jonsowman
[10:20] <cuddykid> and that will ignore - sign?
[10:20] <jonsowman> well, it can't then be negative
[10:21] <cuddykid> ok, cheers
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[10:26] <fsphil> be aware that 0 - 1 = a really big number for C integers - they roll over
[10:26] <fsphil> C unsigned integers that should be
[10:26] <jonsowman> 255 for an 8 bit int
[10:27] <cuddykid> I've had a thought.. would this be ok (just small bit of code)... http://pastebin.com/kgiQDUWb
[10:27] <fsphil> a very useful feature that sometimes
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[10:30] <fsphil> temp_inc2 = -temp_inc2; would work too
[10:30] <cuddykid> great, thanks :)
[10:30] <fsphil> there is an abs() function that does the same job, but you might need the math library for it
[10:30] <cuddykid> just trying to think ahead, don't want a disaster when the temps go minus!
[10:30] <jonsowman> which they will :P
[10:31] <Darkside> uhmmmm
[10:31] <cuddykid> yeah lol
[10:31] <Darkside> cuddykid: what temp sensor are you using?
[10:31] <cuddykid> dallas DS18S20s
[10:31] <cuddykid> got 2, 1 internal, 1 external
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[10:32] <Darkside> cuddykid: what micro?
[10:33] <cuddykid> what do you mean darkside?
[10:33] <Darkside> arduino?
[10:33] <Darkside> or something else
[10:33] <cuddykid> arduino
[10:33] <Darkside> ok
[10:33] <Darkside> _intTemp = sensors.getTempC(internal);
[10:33] <Darkside> where _intTemp is just an int
[10:33] <cuddykid> that the dallas library?
[10:33] <Darkside> sprintf(txBuffer, "$$DARKSIDE,%d,%02d:%02d:%02d,%s,%s,%ld,%d,%d;%d;%d;%s", txCount, time[0], time[1], time[2], latString, longString, altitude, speed, sats, intTemp, extTemp, voltageString);
[10:34] <Darkside> cuddykid: yes
[10:34] <Darkside> aaaand there how i dump it into a string
[10:34] <Darkside> the %d will dump it in, and put a negative sign on it if the int is negative
[10:34] <Darkside> yay sprintf
[10:34] <cuddykid> I tried and had no luck with the dallas library, so just using onewire library and coded the retrieve etc
[10:34] <Darkside> >_>
[10:34] <Darkside> dallas library works fine
[10:35] <cuddykid> yeah, got my sprintf up and running
[10:35] <cuddykid> I couldn't get it working :S just printed out 85.000 every time for temp
[10:35] <Darkside> have you tried the dallstemperature examples?
[10:35] <cuddykid> yeah
[10:35] <Darkside> ok thats not a code issue
[10:35] <cuddykid> none worked
[10:35] <Darkside> temp of 85 is an error cindition
[10:35] <Darkside> condition*
[10:35] <cuddykid> but it works the way I'm doing it now with no change to setup
[10:35] <Darkside> i think its where it doesn't get any data back in a certain time period
[10:36] <cuddykid> ok
[10:36] <Darkside> hold on - 18S20
[10:36] <Darkside> not 18B20
[10:36] <cuddykid> yeah s not b
[10:36] <Darkside> theres a line of code in the library which makes it work with 18S20
[10:36] <cuddykid> I have some B's on order
[10:37] <Darkside> i dont think the model ID on all the 18S20s is the same
[10:38] <Darkside> define DS18S20MODEL 0x10
[10:38] <Darkside> that may not be calud for whar you're using
[10:38] <Darkside> valid*
[10:39] <cuddykid> when the B's come I might swap them
[10:39] <cuddykid> however, working at treat atm
[10:39] <Darkside> ok
[10:39] <Darkside> are you just getting a signed integet out of it?
[10:39] <cuddykid> thanks anyway :)
[10:40] <cuddykid> yeah
[10:40] <cuddykid> 2 of them
[10:40] <Darkside> then just use sprintf and dont worry about the negative sign
[10:40] <cuddykid> 1 for before decimal place
[10:40] <cuddykid> then one for after
[10:40] <Darkside> bah
[10:40] <Darkside> we don't go higher than 1 degree precision
[10:40] <cuddykid> the 1st is fine, its just the 2nd (1dp) that I was preventing from going -ve
[10:40] <cuddykid> ohh :S
[10:41] <Darkside> i already know the DS18B20s don't read temps correctly <40 deg anyway
[10:41] <Darkside> <-40 deg i mean
[10:41] <jonsowman> <40 would be rubbish
[10:41] <cuddykid> lol
[10:41] <Darkside> i've seen vaisala sondes report temps down to -70 degrees C
[10:41] <Darkside> the 18B20s stop at -50 or -55 i think
[10:42] <jonsowman> if they're like the UK met office sondes, they use a hot wire resistive element for temp sensing
[10:42] <Darkside> yep
[10:42] <Darkside> jonsowman: i bet they are teh same songes
[10:42] <jonsowman> I'd put money on that too
[10:42] <Darkside> well, same measurement element anyway
[10:42] <jonsowman> yeah
[10:42] <Darkside> both the RS92 digital and analog sondes use the same sensor module
[10:43] <Darkside> jonsowman: i've done a bit of work with those sondes :-) http://rfhead.net/?p=56
[10:43] <jonsowman> yep that looks exactly the same as the MET office ones here
[10:44] <Darkside> i've written a python library to reprogram the sondes via a bus pirate :-)
[10:44] <jonsowman> oh nice
[10:44] <Darkside> and i've been able to reprogram some of them (depends on the 3.3v regulator) to work above 420MHz
[10:45] <jonsowman> pretty cool
[10:46] <jonsowman> the radio stuff is particularly interested
[10:46] <jonsowman> *ing
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[10:48] <cuddykid> so do you think I should just stick to 1 degree presicion?
[10:48] <Darkside> do you really need the extra digits?
[10:48] <jonsowman> if it makes your life significantly easier, then yes
[10:48] <Darkside> don't forget that its not going to be an accurate representation of the temperature - the case of the sensor will introduce a lag
[10:48] <fsphil> hehe, good advice
[10:48] <jonsowman> the second decimal place is below the noise floor for random temperature fluctuations due to wind etc
[10:49] <Darkside> only the resistive wire sensors will provide an accurate instantaneous temperature
[10:49] <cuddykid> cool :)
[10:49] <cuddykid> no pun inteneded..
[10:49] <jonsowman> :P
[10:49] <cuddykid> *intended
[10:49] <Darkside> cuddykid: it will get cool though
[10:49] <cuddykid> haha
[10:49] <fsphil> very very cool
[10:49] <Darkside> very cool :-)
[10:49] <Darkside> -70 degrees C cool
[10:49] <cuddykid> if it goes to plan!
[10:49] Action: fsphil puts a coat on
[10:49] <Darkside> speaking of which, my miniNut board should be light enough to launch on normal party balloons
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[10:50] <Darkside> i managed to lift an arduino mega + my hf shield on about 8 party balloons, and this new board is going to be a hell of a lot lighter than that
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[10:52] <Darkside> fsphil: you made a mini payload, right?
[10:52] <fsphil> making one yea
[10:52] <Darkside> ok
[10:52] <fsphil> hoping to make it not much better than the ntx2
[10:52] <jonsowman> oh cool, what's that looking like fsphil?
[10:52] <Darkside> mine is already like that
[10:53] <Darkside> well, mine is 5x5cm anyway
[10:53] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/data/MiniHorus_3D.jpg
[10:53] <fsphil> just a bad diagram in eagle at the moment, I keep getting stuck in that program
[10:53] <fsphil> that's really neat :)
[10:54] <fsphil> my only difference is the CPU is under the radio
[10:54] <Darkside> mm, i wanted to keep stuff away from teh radio
[10:54] <Darkside> i'm planning on putting a 300mW 2m module on there
[10:54] <fsphil> aah yea, that would be wise
[10:54] <fsphil> though two sided board might shield it
[10:54] <Darkside> no wait
[10:54] <Darkside> i ordered the 100mW version, not the 300mW version
[10:55] <Darkside> i found radiometrix sell 100mW 144.390MHZ modules
[10:55] <Darkside> so i've ordered 2 of them for testing
[10:55] <jonsowman> :)
[10:55] <jonsowman> cool cool
[10:55] <Darkside> also i've send that board off for manufacture with seeedstudio's fusion pcb service
[10:55] <Darkside> total cost - $36
[10:55] <jonsowman> they're so cheap
[10:55] <Darkside> well, a bit more than that
[10:55] <jonsowman> 10 5x5 boards for $10
[10:55] <jonsowman> crazy
[10:55] <Darkside> it was $10 for 10 board tho
[10:55] <Darkside> i just wanted fast shipping
[10:55] <jonsowman> ah right
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[10:56] <Darkside> now i need to order all the parts
[10:57] <Elwell> that mininut looks v cool. niceone
[10:58] <Darkside> Elwell: hold off on the applause until i've proven it works
[10:58] <jonsowman> lol
[10:58] <fsphil> my board also is lacking temperature sensor headers
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[10:58] <Darkside> fsphil: yeah, i wanted a few available
[10:59] <Darkside> had some ideas for some heat transfer experiments which need lots of temp sensors
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[11:09] <Laurenceb> seedstudio is good quality too
[11:09] <nelly11> Hey! anyone know if you get discounts on balloons if you order in bulk?
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[11:17] <SpeedEvil> Sounds likely.
[11:17] <SpeedEvil> How many? And why?
[11:19] <nelly11> well, I only need three but because HABS will hopefully be launched aevery year as part of theses at my uni, my tutor was wondering whether we could get discounts if we bought in bulk.
[11:19] <nelly11> on the websites I have looked at, there are no prices for bulk orders
[11:22] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2011/05/27/low-cost-low-bandwidth-wireless-arduino-to-android-communications/
[11:22] <Laurenceb> genius
[11:27] <jonsowman> haha
[11:27] <jonsowman> that is very clever
[11:31] <Darkside> ok my guestimate for costs for one mininut board is about $90-$100
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[11:32] <Randomskk> including GPS?
[11:33] <Darkside> wait, more like $70
[11:33] <Darkside> no, not including GPS
[11:33] <Darkside> i'll be re-using an existing one
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> Probably simpler to comm over audio
[11:34] <Elwell> Darkside: thats what, pcb + all SMT components?
[11:35] <Darkside> Elwell: yeah, not including GPS
[11:35] <Darkside> or battery
[11:35] <Elwell> auzzie dollahs?
[11:35] <Darkside> yah
[11:35] <Darkside> the PCB is cheaper than most of the components :P
[11:36] <Elwell> right - pymetar v python-metar?
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[12:36] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/27/playboy_mansion_mona/
[12:37] <Laurenceb> "lifestyles that were probably not in keeping with that of a monk" lol XD
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[13:01] <cuddykid> I've got the arduino duemolove (no idea how to spell it!) which is running the flight comp. However, it does take up quite a bit of space, maybe for later flights could I take the atmega out of the arduino holder thing and just solder it onto my board?
[13:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Cuddykid, you could look for the arduino teensy
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[13:02] <cuddykid> wow that is small!
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[13:03] <cuddykid> also, could I buy atmega chips and just place them in the holder on the duemolove and then program them using usb interface, then once programmed just solder into a board?
[13:03] <Dan-K2VOL> Hehe
[13:04] <Dan-K2VOL> if you're going to make your own board, you might as well just program them on the board using an FTDI cable from a place like adafruit
[13:04] <Dan-K2VOL> Then there's no chip-swapping
[13:04] <cuddykid> ahh ok thanks
[13:05] <Dan-K2VOL> That's how we do the white star modules
[13:05] <Dan-K2VOL> you just have to provide the correct wiring for the external crystal, reset button, and voltage supply
[13:06] <cuddykid> nice
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[13:07] <Dan-K2VOL> sparkfun also sells the ftdi cables
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[13:08] <BrainDamage> you can use the arduino you got as in-system programmer without having to remove the avr it mounts
[13:08] <Dan-K2VOL> But make sure you get the right voltage FTDI cable appropriate for your chosen sysyem
[13:08] <Dan-K2VOL> Adafruit's FTDI friend is my favorite because it lets you change the logic level and power level
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[14:00] <Laurenceb> omg http://www.linear.com/product/LTM9004
[14:00] Action: Laurenceb drools
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[14:03] <Laurenceb> but thats got to be one of the most insane packages ever
[14:03] <Laurenceb> 204 lead LGA O_o
[14:05] <Darkside> yah
[14:05] <Darkside> you'd need a many may layer board to use it
[14:05] <Laurenceb> well no
[14:06] <Laurenceb> its almost all gnd
[14:06] <Laurenceb> just a pain to solder
[14:06] <Laurenceb> if you could solder it itd pwn the funcube dongle
[14:06] <Darkside> only from 800MHZ to 2.7GHz
[14:09] <W0OTM> Hello World
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[14:22] <Chingy> Hi everybody :)
[14:25] <Upu> afternoon
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[14:27] <rjharrison> boo
[14:27] <rjharrison> been away for a while
[14:27] <rjharrison> Just got an interesting email
[14:27] <rjharrison> Hi Robert, just though you may be interested to know, we have been testing the little hottie hand warmers to keep our payload warm. They work by the oxidation of iron using water soaked in vermiculite and sodium chloride as a catalyst with activated carbon. We put one in our vacuum chamber and found that the temperature decreased from 20oC to 10oC. Of course in a vacuum there is no oxygen to oxidise the iron hence no heat. The cooling effect I be
[14:27] <rjharrison> lieve is due to the enthalpy of evaporation of the water from the vermiculite, the low pressure causes the water to evaporate rapidly requiring a load of heat energy to do this which it gains from its surroundings. hence anyone using these to keep their payloads warm are actually cooling their electronics rather than warming them. We are going for USB rechargeable electric hand warmers which have a good heat to mass ratio and keep a regular tempe
[14:27] <rjharrison> rature of about 40oC for four hours or so on a charge. Have you recorded temperatures inside and outside of you payloads in your past flights that may shed some further light on this? Jon Sharpe, Tasker Milward School, Haverfordwest :-)
[14:29] <rjharrison> i'm jumping in and out of VPN so I'll leave this here in the message logs
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[14:31] <Upu> damn
[14:32] <Upu> blink and you'll miss him
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[14:42] <fsphil> lol
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[14:47] <russss> heh
[14:48] <russss> what's the issue with sodium acetate handwarmers, too fast I wonder?
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[14:52] <cuddykid> anyone know why my temp sensors always give readings about 3 to 4 C above what it should be?
[14:58] <Upu> whats the tolerance on them ?
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[14:58] <NigeyS> they should be +/- .5c
[14:58] <NigeyS> not 3-4 :|
[14:59] <cuddykid> yeah +/- .5
[14:59] <fsphil> if you warm it up, does it at least go up?
[15:00] <fsphil> also is your reference accurate?
[15:00] <NigeyS> cuddykid, stick them in a bag of ice and see what reading you get
[15:00] <cuddykid> yeah, they go up and down
[15:00] <cuddykid> hmm
[15:01] <cuddykid> right... this is very wierd, my code is obv wrong somewhere...
[15:01] <cuddykid> If the flight comp is indoors where it can't get gps then the temp is reported correct (fluctuates), however, when I move it outside the temp just reports the same over and over again (doesn't fluctuate)
[15:03] <cuddykid> it keeps reading the last temps when there was no gps lock
[15:03] <fsphil> post your code somewhere
[15:03] <cuddykid> will do
[15:04] <cuddykid> heres the loop bit.. http://pastebin.com/x1dHQkkS
[15:05] <fsphil> while (Serial.available()) <-- possibly your problem
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[15:06] <cuddykid> however, it works when there is serial available (just no gps lock)
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[15:07] <fsphil> while your transmitting your rtty string (with gps lock) there will be gps serial data arriving at the port
[15:08] <fsphil> so the loop will always find serial data available, and the loop will never end
[15:08] <fsphil> if that makes sense
[15:08] <SamSilver> Laurenceb: I found this and thought it might be of interest to you; http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17270
[15:08] <cuddykid> umm, trying to understand lol
[15:08] <Laurenceb> SamSilver: ok
[15:09] <cuddykid> would putting the temp code inside the while serial available correct problem
[15:09] <cuddykid> I think I understand if so
[15:10] <fsphil> possibly
[15:11] <fsphil> or you could get rid of the while() loop
[15:11] <cuddykid> ok will try that :)
[15:12] <fsphil> you could probably work that with an if() instead
[15:13] <fsphil> I'm going outside to make an antenna, I may be some time :)
[15:13] <cuddykid> yeah, ok, thanks fsphil :)
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[15:14] <Dan-K2VOL> May the the resonance be with you phil
[15:14] <cuddykid> haha
[15:14] <cuddykid> ping jonsowman
[15:15] <fsphil> lol
[15:21] <cuddykid> fsphil, it doesn't transmit anything with the if :S
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[15:28] <cuddykid> oh dear, nothing works anymore!
[15:30] <fsphil> hehe, put the while() back in
[15:30] <cuddykid> yeah, done that now lol... hmm
[15:30] <cuddykid> tried putting all the temp stuff inside the while() and that didn't work either!
[15:31] <fsphil> you're temperature sensor bits must be taking too long
[15:31] <cuddykid> so, I now have a choice - either, I know where it is, or I know the temp lol
[15:31] <fsphil> damn you Schroedinger! :)
[15:31] <cuddykid> take ~ 1sec I think
[15:31] <cuddykid> lol
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[15:31] <fsphil> you need to find some way to only measure the temperature between strings
[15:32] <fsphil> you're while loop might actually be a better idea there
[15:32] <fsphil> but you'll need to add some way to break out of it after a successful string
[15:32] <cuddykid> hmm, how come it works when there is serial but just no gps lock
[15:33] <fsphil> the pause between gps strings is enough to make serial.available() false
[15:33] <fsphil> and the loop breaks
[15:33] <cuddykid> oh right, i see
[15:34] <cuddykid> I wonder why if() doesn't work :S
[15:34] <fsphil> if you did have a lock, then your code starts to transmit data ... while that is happening, the gps is sending more data
[15:34] <cuddykid> I get you now I think! :)
[15:34] <fsphil> try return;
[15:34] <fsphil> instead of delay(100);
[15:34] <fsphil> after the string is transmitted
[15:35] <fsphil> that way it forces the loop() function to run again, and read the sensors
[15:35] <cuddykid> would that break out of the while
[15:35] <cuddykid> ?
[15:35] <fsphil> yes
[15:35] <cuddykid> got it
[15:35] <cuddykid> will try
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[15:38] <cuddykid> works with no gps, will try outside now..
[15:38] <cuddykid> fingers crossed!
[15:39] <cuddykid> booting up
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[15:41] <cuddykid> wont lock on now..grr!
[15:41] <cuddykid> I speak to soon
[15:41] <cuddykid> works!
[15:41] <cuddykid> thanks fsphil!
[15:47] <cuddykid> hmm, still about 2 to 3C above what it should be
[15:47] <Upu> calibrate it
[15:47] <Upu> then code the error :)
[15:47] <cuddykid> thermometer outside says 15.8C however both are reading 20
[15:48] <Upu> which is the accurate on though ?
[15:48] <cuddykid> never thought of that upu!
[15:48] <cuddykid> I would think the 15.8C
[15:48] <Upu> Mine were out by 3-4 'C
[15:48] <cuddykid> doubt if its 20C outside, fairly cool today here
[15:48] <Upu> GCSC Physics get some melting ice = 0'C
[15:48] <Dan-K2VOL> Cuddykid, put it in icewater, that will be a stable
[15:48] <Dan-K2VOL> Yeah
[15:49] <cuddykid> yeah, will do when I have it soldered up
[15:49] <cuddykid> could put the whole breadboard in :P lol
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[15:51] <cuddykid> btw, there isn't an iphone HAB app is there in the community? Would be great to run in background uploading chase car position to server etc (and also as a nice retrieval device as with 1 click could be routed to balloon) ?
[15:52] <Darkside> do any of the mobile google maps apps even load kmls?
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> I recall an iphone app under development being mentioned.
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> I have not bothered remembering the name though.
[15:53] <Darkside> part of habhub?
[15:53] <cuddykid> not sure, but surely wouldn't be that hard to grab latest location from server every now and then
[15:53] <Darkside> mm
[15:53] <Darkside> but afaik theres nothing to do it at the moment
[15:53] <cuddykid> would be an interesting project
[15:53] <cuddykid> oh right
[15:53] <Darkside> i did find out recently that spacenear.us/tracker/ works on my kindle
[15:54] <Darkside> so next flight i'll have that running
[15:54] <cuddykid> yeah it works on the iphone too
[15:54] <cuddykid> pretty neat
[15:54] <Darkside> we just use our own tracking systems anyway
[15:55] <Darkside> oziexplorer + custom code linking into dl-fldigi
[15:56] <cuddykid> cool!
[15:56] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/201-03-13-6Z_9Z-Sondes.jpg
[15:57] <Darkside> thats actually tracking a met bureau radiosonde, but its the same software
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[15:57] <Darkside> sonde is on the left, green line is the path so far
[15:57] <cuddykid> nice
[15:57] <Darkside> orange line is a live prediction made using the cambridge uni guy's prediction software, the same stuff that drives the spacenear.us predictor
[15:58] <Darkside> black line is chase car track
[15:58] <Darkside> and the waypoints are pretty descriptive - we recovered 3 sondes that night
[15:58] <Darkside> the one in the air when that screenshot was taken ended up in an inaccessible area
[15:59] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/pics/2011-05-21_Foxhunting_Prep/ <-- one of the main chase vehicles
[15:59] <Darkside> certainly the best kitted out vehicle
[16:02] <cuddykid> :O
[16:02] <cuddykid> that is INCREDIBLE!
[16:03] <Darkside> lol
[16:03] <Darkside> http://rfhead.net/?p=42 thats some of the things we do with it
[16:03] <Darkside> hunting down met balloons
[16:03] <cuddykid> wowwww! I am in awe
[16:04] <Darkside> cuddykid: well, the owner of tht car has been doing radio direction finding for a long time
[16:04] <cuddykid> that is pretty cool
[16:04] <Darkside> switching to hunting balloons is pretty easy
[16:04] <cuddykid> when you retrieve the balloons do you get paid?
[16:04] <Darkside> no
[16:04] <Dan-K2VOL> Darkside the spacenear us works on KINDLE?!
[16:05] <Dan-K2VOL> That's amazing
[16:05] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: just
[16:05] <cuddykid> you'd be rolling in it otherwise! haha
[16:05] <Darkside> its slow
[16:05] <Darkside> cuddykid: not really
[16:05] <Darkside> fuel cost makes it not worth it
[16:05] <cuddykid> suppose
[16:05] <Dan-K2VOL> Lol yeah, I have the kindle2, it's hardly able to to anything on the web
[16:05] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: kindle 3.1 here
[16:05] <cuddykid> though, if you had to face the extortionate uk fuel costs it would certainly not make it worth it!
[16:06] <Darkside> cuddykid: its prett bad here too
[16:06] <cuddykid> yeah
[16:06] <Darkside> 0.87 pounts per litre here
[16:06] <Darkside> pounds*
[16:06] <cuddykid> currently here its £1.35 litre
[16:06] <Darkside> for petrol
[16:06] <cuddykid> yeah
[16:06] <Darkside> ouch
[16:06] <cuddykid> £1.41 ish for disel
[16:07] <Darkside> its about 1 pound per litre for diesel here
[16:07] <cuddykid> yeah, gone up a huge amount recently
[16:07] <cuddykid> not good at all
[16:08] <Darkside> mm
[16:08] <cuddykid> massive hate on iantivirus for mac currently... for some reason it hogs absurd amounts of cpu for huge lengths of time
[16:08] <Darkside> next flight i hope to do live video streaing from within that chase vehicle
[16:09] <Darkside> cuddykid: i just do't run an antivirus on my macbook >_>
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Darkside, the sondehunting looks fun
[16:09] <cuddykid> that would be good.. I enjoy watching the storm chasers that go out from UK with the live video stream
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Cuddykid I used to use iantivirus, but dropped it for the same reason
[16:09] <Darkside> im gonna try and test teh camera tomorrow
[16:09] <cuddykid> yeah, suppose its not necessary, never needed it
[16:10] <Darkside> around 4-5UTC or so
[16:10] <Darkside> you guys will all be asleep i guess
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL> The name of the sonde company sounds familiar, I wonder if they are the same as in the US
[16:10] <cuddykid> yeah probably
[16:10] <Darkside> Dan-K2VOL: i heard they use something else in teh US as well
[16:10] <Darkside> but vaisala is a pretty damn big company
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> I am considering doing a summer project for kids to build and chase very small balloons
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> I wish the GPSs were cheaper, RDF requires such expensive equipment in vehicles
[16:12] <Dan-K2VOL> It's money one place or the other
[16:13] <Darkside> you can RDF with a yagi and a scanner
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> GPSs are quite cheap
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> 20 quid tops
[16:13] <Darkside> you don't need any special equipment
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[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> SpeedEvil, is a quid a pound?
[16:20] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> K
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh that's nice, google now has a nice live money converter with entry boxes when you type in something like 20 GBP in USD
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd like to make a very low altitude floater payload for kids, like 5000 ft (2km)
[16:23] <Dan-K2VOL> something that small could be precisely inflated indoors, and carried outside for release about anywhere
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> And at those altitudes you don't have to worry about cold
[16:24] <Dan-K2VOL> Anyone online that's been working on latex floaters?
[16:25] <cuddykid> ping DanielRichman
[16:25] <DanielRichman> hi cuddykid
[16:25] <Dan-K2VOL> I wonder if we could design a very cheap lightweight pressure release valve
[16:25] <cuddykid> Hi Dan, hear about the ocr blunder?
[16:25] <Dan-K2VOL> To make superpressure balloons more succesful
[16:25] <DanielRichman> I think so.
[16:25] <Dan-K2VOL> No, what's OCR?
[16:25] <DanielRichman> UK exam board
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> I have no idea
[16:26] <cuddykid> issued a letter saying it was unsolvable lol
[16:26] <Dan-K2VOL> Saying what was unsolvable?
[16:26] <cuddykid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/13IBvLmYatH32iwiEXPdDs308B6XCiHHs6_XlMQQ_jRE/edit?hl=en_US
[16:26] <cuddykid> A problem in the D1 exam yesterday
[16:26] <DanielRichman> yes. We were talking about it in here yesterday; habhub.org/zeusbot 20:50
[16:27] <cuddykid> yeah, didn't see the letter till just
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> oh ok
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> Lol nice
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> Didn't know the URL for the log, that's cool
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> DanielRichman are you working on floaters?
[16:29] <DanielRichman> not me
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> Ok
[16:29] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: ahaha so ocr were in fact wrong
[16:29] <Randomskk> that's fantastic
[16:30] <DanielRichman> yeah teachers from the maths department were looking through the paper (some had tried to do it) while we were waiting to go into F322
[16:30] <Randomskk> F322?
[16:30] <DanielRichman> chemistry unit 2
[16:30] <Randomskk> ah, okay
[16:30] <DanielRichman> "I don't know what they're going to do. This has never happened before... basically they're buggered"
[16:30] <DanielRichman> (paraphrased)
[16:31] <Randomskk> haha
[16:31] <Randomskk> that's great
[16:31] <DanielRichman> lowest ever D1 was 47/72 for an A. This will be lower.
[16:33] <DanielRichman> realistically though, someone at OCR is in srs trouble
[16:33] <Randomskk> several people
[16:33] <Randomskk> though otoh it's one part of one question, who really cares that much
[16:33] <Randomskk> :P
[16:33] <Randomskk> just.. whoever set it made a mistake, fairly seriously
[16:34] <Randomskk> but all the subsequent people who should have checked it also missed that
[16:34] <DanielRichman> I doubt it. I expect they printed an old version of their document
[16:34] <Randomskk> missed something that loads and loads of kids sitting the exam got
[16:34] <Randomskk> ooh
[16:34] <cuddykid> problem is, many people would have wasted time on that Q meaning others that they could have done, they didn't have time to do
[16:34] <Randomskk> that would be a tragic failure
[16:34] <Randomskk> cuddykid: it was the final question, though
[16:34] <cuddykid> so I really don't know how they are going to sort it out fairly
[16:34] <Randomskk> I mean ikr you should do questions in whatever order
[16:34] <Randomskk> but this was A level, you just ploughed through the entire paper and finished with an hour to spare
[16:34] <cuddykid> yeah, some people go randomly through paper lol
[16:35] <Randomskk> order matters less
[16:35] <cuddykid> D1 is usually tight for time
[16:35] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: you reckon they got the mistake, fixed it, then published the wrong version?
[16:35] <SamSilver> bbl
[16:35] <DanielRichman> yes. This is supported by the fact that the marks on the paper add up to 70, not 72
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[16:35] <cuddykid> hahahaa
[16:35] <cuddykid> brilliant
[16:35] <DanielRichman> I know, right.
[16:35] <Randomskk> oh nice
[16:35] <Randomskk> that's tragic
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[16:37] <Josh_> hey guys, following on from my how high should a normal party helium balloon ride conversation the other day, i was wondering if anyone could help with the equation or calculations
[16:38] <Josh_> if your standard party balloon has a mass of 1.3 grams, and you wanted the bursting point to be 30,000 metres, how much helium should you put into the balloon?
[16:38] <Randomskk> the calculations are trivial, the issue is the data about the balloon
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> 1.3 grams - sounds light.
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> What is the burst diameter/
[16:38] <SpeedEvil> ?
[16:38] <Josh_> hmm i dont know how you measure your balloons by size....i just googled 'party balloon mass'
[16:39] <Josh_> oo yeah good question....
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/ - gives the atmospheric density at altitude.
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> 30km - it's about 2% of that at sea level
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> So to get the same lift, the balloon volume needs to be able to expand to 50* or so.
[16:40] <Laurenceb> hmm my DMA does nt work
[16:40] <SpeedEvil> Or increase in diameter by 4* or so
[16:41] <Josh_> i see
[16:41] <Josh_> thans speedevil
[16:41] <Laurenceb> Randomskk: ping
[16:41] <Josh_> ok so how about this
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[16:41] <Randomskk> hi
[16:41] <Laurenceb> my dma doesnt seem to be receiving
[16:41] <Laurenceb> usart2 is working
[16:42] <Laurenceb> for tx, but for rx theres nothing
[16:42] <Laurenceb> what do i need to clk?
[16:42] <Randomskk> god, uhm
[16:42] <Randomskk> dma needs various levels of turning on I think
[16:43] <Randomskk> the DMA peripheral needs clocking
[16:43] <Laurenceb> hmm i see data on the gps tx pin
[16:43] <Randomskk> he USART itself will too
[16:43] <Randomskk> the GPIO will
[16:43] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:43] <Laurenceb> im clking the dma
[16:43] <Randomskk> then you should be able to up DMA_CCR, DMA_CNDTR, CMA_CPAR, CMA_CMAR registers
[16:44] <Randomskk> and then hit a bit in the USART register to tell it to talk to the DMA
[16:44] <Josh_> take the KCL 10 balloon from this link: http://kaymont.com/pages/pilot-ceiling-balloons.cfm
[16:44] <jiffe99> Josh_: someone made a good excel spreadsheet calculator for the kaymont balloons at some point
[16:44] <Laurenceb> oh wait
[16:44] <Josh_> it would normally burst at 11,000 m.....how much helium would i need to reach 30,000 m?
[16:44] <Laurenceb> RCC_APB2Periph_AFIO
[16:44] <Laurenceb> usart2 is on apb1
[16:45] <Josh_> jiffe99: thanks, i'll see if i can find it
[16:47] <Laurenceb> RCC_APB1Periph_USART2
[16:47] <jiffe99> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[16:47] <Laurenceb> why... just why
[16:47] <Laurenceb> stupid naming convention
[16:47] <Laurenceb> or lack therof
[16:48] <Randomskk> ikr
[16:48] <Randomskk> ridiculous
[16:48] <Josh_> thanks jiffe99, although i'm trying to find a calculator for a 10 g totex balloon
[16:49] <Randomskk> jiffe99: www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/calc uses the spreadsheet data but is perhaps somewhat easier to use
[16:49] <Randomskk> Josh_: the issue is that we don't have burst diameter information for a 10g balloon
[16:49] <Josh_> so i can measure how much helium a 10 g one would need at 30,000 m
[16:49] <Randomskk> and it's possible a 10g balloon couldn't even get to 30km, depends on its burst diameter
[16:49] <Josh_> Randomskk: is there an equation that would allow me to calculate it?
[16:49] <Randomskk> n
[16:49] <Randomskk> no*
[16:49] <Josh_> i see
[16:49] <Randomskk> it's a property of the object
[16:49] <Randomskk> if you had a balloon you could measure it
[16:49] <Josh_> thanks jiffe9
[16:49] <Josh_> 9
[16:50] <Laurenceb> no thats not it
[16:50] <Laurenceb> im 90% sure its something to do with clocks
[16:50] <Randomskk> try DMA TX
[16:50] <Laurenceb> i dont know how to run usart2 :(
[16:50] <Laurenceb> i think the problem is usart2
[16:51] <Laurenceb> its certainly clocked, but the gpio isnt
[16:51] <Josh_> according to the kaymont website, it's bursting point would be 11km....surely if i decresed the helium input by 3 times, it would go 3 times as high?
[16:51] <Josh_> maybe i'm being silly :S
[16:51] <Laurenceb> RCC_APB2PeriphClockCmd(RCC_APB2Periph_GPIOB|RCC_APB2Periph_GPIOA|RCC_APB2Periph_AFIO, ENABLE);
[16:52] <Laurenceb> i had to do that for usart1
[16:52] <Laurenceb> but theres no RCC_APB1Periph_AFIO
[16:53] <Laurenceb> bbl
[16:56] <jiffe99> Josh_: there are lower bounds too, there needs to be enough gas to lift the balloon's mass, and not so little that it reaches equilibrium
[16:56] <Josh_> jiffe99: what about if the balloon is not lifting anything but being lifted by a bigger balloon?
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[17:04] <SpeedEvil> hmm - stm32f2* parts. Neat.
[17:04] <SpeedEvil> Up to a meg of flash.
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[17:07] <mixio> Hi all
[17:07] <mixio> http://imagebin.org/155466 :)
[17:07] <mixio> my new pcb :)
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[17:09] <jiffe99> if you ignore lifting power then I suppose the calculation is valid
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[17:25] <m1x10> fsphil: I called a homeless dog organization to come at the camp and gather the dogs
[17:26] <m1x10> the took most of them, I hope they are lucky now..
[17:27] <jiffe99> I'm not sure what the Cd is in that calculation, seems to be a volume of about 755cm^3 to burst at 30km
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[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Coefficient of drag
[17:35] <jiffe99> gotcha, seems to affect only ascent rate which makes sense
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[17:39] <cuddykid> nice mixio
[17:39] <cuddykid> is it hard to create custom pcbs? Might do it for next flight
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[17:47] <mixio> cuddykid: no its not hard. Im a newbie :)
[17:47] <cuddykid> cool :)
[17:47] <cuddykid> a lot neater than my mess... lol
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[17:54] <MNSP2> Hello All :)
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[17:55] <MNSP> Are we expecting a lanch this weekend?
[17:57] <MNSP> *launch
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[17:58] <fsphil> none here
[17:59] <fsphil> haven't heard of any others
[17:59] <MNSP> Hibby?
[18:00] <MNSP> Oh fsphil, when are you hoping to next?
[18:00] <fsphil> whenever the weather behaves :)
[18:00] <fsphil> I've got two more weekends on this notam
[18:01] <MNSP> ok well thats some options still left for you then sir
[18:01] <fsphil> aye, if all else fails I'll launch something disposable on the last weekend
[18:02] <MNSP> disposale?
[18:02] <MNSP> disposable? even
[18:02] <fsphil> yea- something I don't mind loosing in yorkshire :)
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[18:04] <MNSP> a lot of things go missing in yorkshire
[18:05] <fsphil> lol
[18:05] <MNSP> don't stray from the path fsphil
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[18:12] <fsphil> nice prediction for next friday, which probably means it'll end up in Norway
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[18:13] <MNSP> oooo so a possibility though
[18:13] <fsphil> this weekend looked nice too last week though
[18:14] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=15ad159425dc6ce6992de980b68147e7a9548dad
[18:14] <fsphil> hopefully it gets warmer soon, it's freezing here atm
[18:15] <MNSP> well we are heading into June, so should really
[18:18] <MNSP> Ok time to get some nom, bbl :)
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[18:27] <Laurenceb_> hmm im confused by the alt function gpio clock
[18:27] <Laurenceb_> theres only one of them for all the gpio?
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[18:40] <griffonbot> @adamcudworth: Compiling temp, gps & buzzer code now for complete flight comp code.. #HABE1 #UKHAS [http://twitter.com/adamcudworth/status/74183117249847296]
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> Randomskk: ping
[18:40] <Randomskk> eating
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> ok nvm :P
[18:44] <cuddykid> ping jonsowman
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[18:53] <cuddykid> been thinking.. a nice addition to code would be to check battery level and if payload is still in flight (alt > 500m) and power is critical level then power off some of non essential components.. has anyone done this before?
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[18:56] <Laurenceb_> http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/05/27/138241/New-Book-Reports-Soviets-Behind-Roswell-UFO-Scare
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> "'child-size aviators' surgically altered by captured Nazi doctors to appear more frightening"
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> lulwut
[18:57] <DanielRichman> cuddykid: if you test your payload before hand with lithiums you should find - like we did - that it will run for something crazy like 20 hours
[18:57] <cuddykid> lol
[18:58] <cuddykid> DanielRichman, oh wow, I will have 6 of them so hopefully will keep going strong.
[18:58] <Dan-K2VOL> Cuddykid, yes, but you should just put enough batteries on board to cover all flight possibilities, then you don't have to
[18:59] <Dan-K2VOL> You can calculate precisely how long they'll go
[18:59] <cuddykid> I suppose yeah
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[19:20] <m1x10> lol Laurenceb
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[19:30] <Laurenceb_> whats the fsa03 default baudrate?
[19:32] <fsphil> 4800 or 38400
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[19:37] <Laurenceb_> hmf
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> i seem to have usart2 working now, along with circular dma
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> just need correct baud
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> bbl munchies time
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[19:54] <cuddykid> final code looks to be working correctly - a relief! :)
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[20:18] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/GdTVa5j5
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> score... kind of
[20:18] <Laurenceb_> wow that firmware is old
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[20:24] <Laurenceb_> anyone here reconfigured a fsa03?
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[21:09] <Laurenceb_> this is perplexing, my fsa03 responds to commands by chucking out the firmware version
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[21:12] <MNSP> Evening all :)
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[23:06] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/id8jy.jpg
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/3XpXr.jpg
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> done
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[23:08] <SpeedEvil> Some of the resistors aren't straight.
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[23:08] <SpeedEvil> Awesome!
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> damn I'm late
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> What's the software progress?
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> none
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> there seems to be an issue with gps
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> I'm still in the hardware phase
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> That's what - 30*60mm?
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> dma is working
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> yes
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> but each time i try to configure the gps it resets
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> im suspecting its a hardware issue - theres some 'antifry' stuff between the tx from stm32 and gps vreg
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> good news is the dma ring buffer works perfectly
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> you mean not enough transient current?
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> somehow
[23:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[23:11] <SpeedEvil> Very tidy board!
[23:11] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> D2 goes from stm32 tx to ublox to gps vreg enable
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[23:14] <Laurenceb_> if theres a short under it it may explain what happening
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> im not in the lab atm tho
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> ROM CORE 4.00 (25682) Jan 14 2008 16:29:23 <-interesting
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> (off the ublo5)
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> on the photo pin 37 looks a bit iffy on the stm32?
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> bottom left hand corner - thats the gps vreg en pin
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> hi m1x10
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3lLQhemNoA&feature=related
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[23:20] <Laurenceb_> guess i need to probe around a bit more
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> im off, cya
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> Sudan will split
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about that?
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> turtles
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> Belgium will meet the same fate
[23:26] <m1x10> hi Lunar_Lander
[23:26] <m1x10> i have the new boards :)
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> and did you hear it?
[23:26] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/155466 :)
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> in July we will have 193 countries!
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> SOUTH SUDAN!
[23:27] <m1x10> omg, stop politics !
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> so the new version does a GPSbee?
[23:28] <m1x10> yes
[23:28] <m1x10> i will make a list
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:28] <m1x10> of the components to be sold
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> the "100""100""180" marking down there is what?
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> next to the camera port
[23:29] <m1x10> give me your home addr
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[23:30] <m1x10> ok
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[23:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh5b042UqsU&feature=related - first thought - I want one for my garage.
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> xD cool
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[00:00] --- Sat May 28 2011