highaltitude.log.20110523

[00:29] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[00:33] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[00:38] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[00:40] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[01:06] juxta (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[01:52] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A07EB2.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[02:11] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A072E7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[02:50] KF5KWE (~CountX@cpe-72-179-0-141.austin.res.rr.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:20] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A072E7.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Lunar_Lander
[03:22] mazzanet (~mazzanet@hpavc/mazzanet) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[03:56] mazzanet (~mazzanet@hpavc/mazzanet) joined #highaltitude.
[04:48] SamSilver (2985f564@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.133.245.100) joined #highaltitude.
[05:15] cuddykid_ (~acudworth@78.145.195.228) joined #highaltitude.
[05:15] cuddykid (~acudworth@78.145.195.228) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[05:15] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[07:04] <SamSilver> bbl
[07:05] SamSilver (2985f564@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.133.245.100) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[07:11] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[07:17] RocketBoy (steverand@217.47.75.8) left #highaltitude.
[08:10] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[08:27] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) joined #highaltitude.
[08:30] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-172-188-211.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:49] RocketBoy (steverand@217.47.75.8) left #highaltitude.
[08:50] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host81-156-69-50.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:12] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[09:13] RocketBoy (steverand@217.47.75.8) left #highaltitude.
[09:15] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-172-188-211.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[09:29] jan_bangna (~jandetlef@ppp-110-168-76-33.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #highaltitude.
[09:29] priyesh (~priyesh@cpc21-nmal17-2-0-cust75.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[09:41] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[09:43] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron "Re: [UKHAS] UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[09:47] priyesh (~priyesh@cpc21-nmal17-2-0-cust75.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:54] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[10:06] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:14] <cuddykid> hi all
[10:14] <cuddykid> Would stainless steel split rings survive the cold temperatures?
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> yes
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> Stainless steel is fine from a few kelvin, to a few hundred.
[10:15] <cuddykid> thanks
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> Avoid tin.
[10:15] <cuddykid> cool, will get some ordered!
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> (though tin is vanishingly uncommon in consumer applications these days)
[10:16] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[10:20] SpikeUK (d0331fa2@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/spikeuk) joined #highaltitude.
[10:20] NigelMoby (~nigel@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:21] <NigelMoby> Morning
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.videobash.com/video_show/horse-playing-with-a-ball-2315 (not really on-topic)
[10:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[10:26] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[10:30] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-78-12-232-245.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[10:46] <Laurenceb> i just saw a whole lorryload of liquid helium O_o
[10:46] <Laurenceb> in large dewars
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> I'd love a large dewar.
[10:47] <russss> we have a dewar at Hackspace
[10:48] <russss> we haven't managed to find anywhere convenient to get liquid gases yet though
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> I mean ~200l - for solar-thermal heat store.
[10:48] <russss> ah heh
[10:48] <russss> expensive I think
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> Probably.
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> I'm idly wondering about silly DIY solutions.
[11:24] <Laurenceb> hmm RS need a 'company registration'
[11:24] Action: Laurenceb doesnt follow
[11:28] <Elwell> 'sole trader' not good enough?
[11:29] <Laurenceb> dunno
[11:29] <Elwell> Laurenceb: (assuming you're UK, company law wise)
[11:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Fergus Noble "Re: [UKHAS] UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[11:31] <Laurenceb> bbl
[11:31] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[11:55] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:05] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[12:06] NigelMoby (~nigel@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[12:31] <fsphil> noooo http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=593050b9ddd8128e6234af3b33d2f8a875e75890
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:32] <Elwell> windsurfer time
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=d29a7de30ab52a080cc0f5eeaf7f5ea39d697d0d
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> fsphil:
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> though maybe that's too much
[12:34] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[12:34] <fsphil> also, I'm listening to my webcam at home and I can hear a lot of crashing (it's *very* windy here atm)
[12:34] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[12:34] <fsphil> SpeedEvil, bit near the city
[12:35] <SpeedEvil> vEry windy here too.
[12:35] <fsphil> still a long-range prediction, but they tend to get further away the closer to the date
[12:39] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp046177219252.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[12:40] <m1x10> Hi all
[12:40] <SpeedEvil> hey
[12:47] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp046177219252.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[12:52] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp046177248104.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[12:54] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:57] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:02] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) left irc: Client Quit
[13:03] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:03] Randomskk (~adam@paladin.randomskk.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[13:14] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[13:42] juxta_ (~terry@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:42] SamSilver (2985f564@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.133.245.100) joined #highaltitude.
[13:42] juxta_ (~terry@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Client Quit
[13:45] imrcly (~tim@74-128-123-149.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:48] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[13:51] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[13:59] <griffonbot> @WomanfromYemen: unconfirmed report: gun shots in #Arhab between tribes & republican guards, can anyone confirm this? #yemen #yf [http://twitter.com/WomanfromYemen/status/72663011705372673]
[14:00] <griffonbot> @der_bluthund: RT @WomanfromYemen: unconfirmed report: gun shots in #Arhab between tribes & republican guards, can anyone confirm this? #yemen #yf [http://twitter.com/der_bluthund/status/72663091367788544]
[14:00] <griffonbot> @ProjectYemen: RT @WomanfromYemen: unconfirmed report: gun shots in #Arhab between tribes & republican guards, can anyone confirm this? #yemen #yf [http://twitter.com/ProjectYemen/status/72663166324183040]
[14:00] <griffonbot> @brit_newsman: RT @WomanfromYemen: unconfirmed report: gun shots in #Arhab between tribes & republican guards, can anyone confirm this? #yemen #yf [http://twitter.com/brit_newsman/status/72663232485146624]
[14:02] <griffonbot> @jjiaamud: RT @WomanfromYemen: unconfirmed report: gun shots in #Arhab between tribes & republican guards, can anyone confirm this? #yemen #yf [http://twitter.com/jjiaamud/status/72663583888117763]
[14:02] <griffonbot> @Nefermaat: RT @WomanfromYemen: unconfirmed report: gun shots in #Arhab between tribes & republican guards, can anyone confirm this? #yemen #yf [http://twitter.com/Nefermaat/status/72663716860137472]
[14:02] <fsphil> suggest the bot ignores re-tweets
[14:03] <russss> and also anything hashtagged with #yemen :)
[14:05] <griffonbot> @Zaki_Shamsan: News about clashes bet. Republican Guards & tribesmen in #ARHAB #SANAA #YEMEN #YF #GCC [http://twitter.com/Zaki_Shamsan/status/72664355715559424]
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> maybe publican too.
[14:05] <fsphil> indeed
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> republican
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> The other one could be handy. :)
[14:05] <fsphil> lol
[14:08] <LazyLeopard> Well, could just give #arhab the heave-ho, as it seems to have multiple uses...
[14:09] <griffonbot> @giblet004: RT @WomanfromYemen: unconfirmed report: gun shots in #Arhab between tribes & republican guards, can anyone confirm this? #yemen #yf [http://twitter.com/giblet004/status/72665351820816385]
[14:09] Randomskk (~adam@paladin.randomskk.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:10] <m1x10> ping fsphil
[14:10] <fsphil> hiya m1x10
[14:10] <m1x10> fsphil, i was looking for you before days
[14:10] <m1x10> sad news:
[14:10] <m1x10> my army puppy is dead
[14:10] <m1x10> :(
[14:10] <fsphil> ah man
[14:10] <m1x10> you've seen the pic ..
[14:10] Jasperw (~jasperw@skeleton2.london.iofc.org) joined #highaltitude.
[14:11] <m1x10> i think it was feed with some poison
[14:11] <fsphil> yea
[14:11] <fsphil> that's horrible
[14:11] <m1x10> maybe a snake bite or from human
[14:12] <m1x10> it was suffering 2 days
[14:12] <m1x10> i took a vid of her dying but later i deleted it. I couldnt watch it
[14:12] <fsphil> understandable
[14:12] <fsphil> are there many snakes there?
[14:13] <m1x10> yes we have
[14:13] <jiffe99> are there puncture wounds?
[14:13] <m1x10> i didnt watch for that
[14:13] <m1x10> it was smelling bad
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> m1x10: :(
[14:14] <LazyLeopard> There's usually some swelling or haemorage with snake bite.
[14:14] <m1x10> i asked to burie it but they told me to put it in a plastic bag and drop it out of the camp
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> Sorry.
[14:15] <LazyLeopard> Depends a bit on the type of snake.
[14:15] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A06240.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:15] <m1x10> after she died, her eyes were blown out and she became like a balloon.
[14:15] <m1x10> and salive was running from her mouth all the time
[14:16] <m1x10> and she could not move her back legs
[14:16] <m1x10> like paralized
[14:16] <LazyLeopard> When I was growing up the usual culprits were the various types of viper, or occasionally cobras.
[14:17] <LazyLeopard> ...but that's Africa for you.
[14:17] <m1x10> we have just one poisonous snake in greece. thats the viper
[14:17] <m1x10> and we have seen vipers in the camp
[14:17] <LazyLeopard> Would expect the bitten limb to get very swollen, then.
[14:18] <fsphil> there are no snakes here at all, thankfully
[14:18] <LazyLeopard> Usually it's limbs that get bitten...
[14:19] <m1x10> she was usually sleeping in the grass
[14:19] <m1x10> anyway, need to take bath
[14:19] <m1x10> cu later
[14:19] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp046177248104.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Quit: If you run you only gonna die tired
[14:19] <fsphil> later m1x10
[14:20] <LazyLeopard> The spitting cobras were a different matter.
[14:20] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@host81-156-69-50.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]
[14:22] <Lunar_Lander> oh yeah hello
[14:23] <Lunar_Lander> who died?
[14:23] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> m1x10's puppy.
[14:23] <Laurenceb> why would i get Permission denied (publickey).
[14:23] <Laurenceb> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
[14:23] <Laurenceb> from github?
[14:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[14:30] <Elwell> Laurenceb: git config github.user looks sensible?
[14:46] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp046177248104.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> Stormy...
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> A total of 4 seconds on UPS so far.
[14:47] <fsphil> we had a similar outage about an hour ago
[14:47] <fsphil> power seems a lot more stable now though
[14:50] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Dactyl
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> In case - charging laptop from its usual 70% all the way to 100
[14:52] <BrainDamage> Laurenceb: you're probably trying to push to a read-only url
[14:52] <Laurenceb> it works now - had to setup key
[14:56] <fsphil> hehe, just found out the office is on the generator - explains the stability
[14:57] <Laurenceb> power is ok here but the net keeps dropping out
[14:58] <SpeedEvil> I love being able to keep the battery at 70% charge.
[15:01] SpikeUK (d0331fa2@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/spikeuk) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[15:06] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[15:10] <griffonbot> @curtiskj: RT @WomanfromYemen: unconfirmed report: gun shots in #Arhab between tribes & republican guards, can anyone confirm this? #yemen #yf [http://twitter.com/curtiskj/status/72680762406735872]
[15:11] <Lunar_Lander> does it post that because there is "hab" in "arhab"?
[15:13] <fsphil> #arhab is short for amateur hab
[15:15] Laurenceb (~laurence@vlsi1.eee.nottingham.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[15:18] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[15:18] <fsphil> er, amateur radio hab
[15:18] <KF5KWE> also a city in yemen?
[15:19] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-78-12-232-245.clienti.tiscali.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[15:19] <fsphil> seems to be
[15:19] <fsphil> glad I don't live there
[15:22] <jonsowman> i'll kill griffonbot if it doesn't shut up
[15:22] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-78-12-245-124.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[15:23] <W0OTM> Howdy
[15:23] <SamSilver> confirmed report of jonsowman get a sniper sht in on griffonbot
[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil SamSilver jonsowman W0OTM
[15:24] <jonsowman> hi :)
[15:24] <W0OTM> Hello Mr Lunar_Lander
[15:24] <fsphil> hiya Lunar_Lander
[15:24] <SamSilver> welcome Lunar_Lander
[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[15:24] <Lunar_Lander> yesterday I think I destroyed my pressure sensor breakout
[15:25] <W0OTM> zeusbot: ur a dork
[15:25] <Lunar_Lander> but when I tried to solder the headers to the light sensor breakout, this worked
[15:25] <W0OTM> ahh! thx jonsowman
[15:26] <W0OTM> you da man
[15:26] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp046177248104.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[15:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea as I said
[15:28] <Lunar_Lander> that light sensor is probably the first thing I really soldered
[15:44] <fsphil> soldering is cool
[15:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[15:45] <Lunar_Lander> but the pressure sensor is wrecked
[15:51] <Lunar_Lander> I think
[15:52] <Lunar_Lander> http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7058/picture114l.jpg
[15:52] <Lunar_Lander> http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6666/picture113s.jpg
[15:53] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think?
[15:56] jasonb (~jasonb@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[15:58] NigeyS (~nigel@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:59] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[16:00] <NigeyS> hey Lunar
[16:00] <Lunar_Lander> http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7058/picture114l.jpg
[16:00] <Lunar_Lander> http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6666/picture113s.jpg
[16:00] <Lunar_Lander> that was my first solder attempt
[16:01] <NigeyS> oops, they tend to get a bit hot :P
[16:02] <Lunar_Lander> ye
[16:02] <Lunar_Lander> i think the sensor is wrecked
[16:02] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[16:02] <NigeyS> yikes
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> There is a new method of soldering - that's gentler and more organic. I keep meaning to try it.
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> It's known as 'cod heat'.
[16:03] <Lunar_Lander> yes?
[16:03] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS then I tried the light sensor
[16:03] <Lunar_Lander> (16:24:52)<Lunar_Lander>http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4708/picture115vd.jpg
[16:03] <Lunar_Lander> (16:25:00)<Lunar_Lander>http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/7623/picture116g.jpg
[16:03] <Lunar_Lander> (16:25:05)<Lunar_Lander>http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1871/picture117hk.jpg
[16:04] <NigeyS> not to bad
[16:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea and it fits into the breadboard
[16:06] mazzanet (~mazzanet@hpavc/mazzanet) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[16:06] <Lunar_Lander> so I hope that this one works
[16:07] <Lunar_Lander> I think that this cheap soldering iron is too weak
[16:07] mazzanet (~mazzanet@hpavc/mazzanet) joined #highaltitude.
[16:07] <Lunar_Lander> after swiping I held the solder to it to solder the tip
[16:07] <Lunar_Lander> and it didn't melt the solder until after about half a minute
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> Is the soldering iron tip bright?
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> it looks matt
[16:08] <BrainDamage> it shouldn't glow though :p
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> Shiny, I mean.
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> no, it looks dull
[16:08] <Lunar_Lander> that describes it I think
[16:09] <BrainDamage> it should have a thin layer of solder on it
[16:09] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I did that on the light sensor
[16:09] <BrainDamage> no, the soldering iron
[16:09] <Laurenceb> can anyone suggest how i could create a simlink to a text file
[16:09] <BrainDamage> it will protect the tip, conduct the heat better, and help getting the solder molten
[16:10] <Laurenceb> and get a program running under wine to chuck data to the file?
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> umm - ln -s?
[16:10] <Laurenceb> atm its not connecting
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> I meant I applied solder to the iron on the light sensor attempt BrainDamage
[16:10] <Laurenceb> it only connects to a real serial port
[16:10] <Laurenceb> i dont see why
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: the problem is that the soldering iron is not tinned - so it has sucky connectivity.
[16:10] <NigeyS> Researchers have set a new record for the rate of data transfer using a single laser: 26 terabits per second.
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:10] <NigeyS> bloody nora
[16:10] <Lunar_Lander> and I think it is too weak too?
[16:11] <Lunar_Lander> because it took loads of time to melt the solder for tinning
[16:11] <BrainDamage> how much power?
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> Lunar_Lander: The soldering iron tinning is what conducts the heat properly.
[16:11] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> Without it, it's _way_ less.
[16:11] <Lunar_Lander> and thus it took so long for the solder to melt and so on?
[16:11] <SpeedEvil> Get some old denim, or similar, wet it, and try rubbing the iron on it while hot, then immediately tinning.
[16:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:12] <Lunar_Lander> if that doesn't work, I could ask my father if I could use his old Weller iron
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> If this doesn't help - let it cool down, and scrub at the black bit with a kitchen scoury sponge until it's at least got bits of metal in.
[16:12] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[16:12] <SpeedEvil> Then repeat the damp denim/... and tinning.
[16:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> you can also get little 'tinning blocks'
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> denim is like jeans stuff right?
[16:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[16:13] <BrainDamage> the fast you'll tin, the better will be, because you'll be racing with oxide formation
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> which are lightly abrasive mixtures of flux and solder.
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[16:13] Action: Laurenceb nickserve identify compost
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:13] <Laurenceb> shit
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> and as I said
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> when I swiped the iron and then tried to tin it
[16:13] <BrainDamage> there's also salt ammoniac ( amonium chloride ) tip refreshners, which are a mixture of tin and that
[16:13] <griffonbot> Received email: Martin 100 "[UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> it took quite long for the solder to melt on the tip
[16:13] <SpeedEvil> Every time you put down the iron - wipe the tip, and tin it a little bit.
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[16:13] <BrainDamage> they are rather powerful though
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the info!
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:14] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil also when I got several headers or so, swipe and tin for every header or just when I put the iron away?
[16:15] <BrainDamage> tip the tip before and after every usage, once it's tinned properly, a simple wet sponge to clean should suffice
[16:15] <BrainDamage> tin the tip*
[16:16] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[16:16] <Dan-K2VOL> Also brass coil sponge will make your tip last longer than the wet sponge
[16:16] <BrainDamage> it should be unnecessary for every single component
[16:16] <BrainDamage> careful with the brass shavings because they tend to fling molten solder
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> yeah you only need to refresh it if it's been sitting for a minute or more hot.
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL> As it does not cool the metal as much, and doesn't introduce water, which accelerates oxidation of the tip
[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL> braindamage it does less of that if you insert the tip straight in and out, and don't drag it along the top
[16:18] <BrainDamage> Dan-K2VOL: I know how to use it, but he won't the firt time he does, so better warn him beforehand :p
[16:18] <Dan-K2VOL> oh yes good plan
[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> brb
[16:21] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A06240.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Lunar_Lander
[16:25] <NigeyS> soo... all in favour of self regulation say aye :|
[16:27] <Dan-K2VOL> wellllll I think that govt regulation needs to be changed, as has been demonstrated on this chat room that there are certain maverick personalities that will refuse to abide by gentleman's agreements
[16:28] <Dan-K2VOL> meaning rules made by advisory clubs/groups/organizations
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm going to make the effort to change the US rules
[16:29] <russss> what changes do you want, Dan-K2VOL?
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> I have no idea if I have the money and time to accomplish it, but hopefully I'll pick up help along the way
[16:29] <russss> better rules for long-duration flights?
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> Yes
[16:29] <Dan-K2VOL> Precisely
[16:30] <NigeyS> i quite agree with the pint already made .. this has been looked at by the CAA and if they thought these launches were a severe risk, then the rules would be enforced, and or set in place
[16:30] <NigeyS> point*
[16:30] <Dan-K2VOL> Here we could launch 11.9 lb white star speedball payloads every hour for a year and not have to notify the FAA
[16:30] <russss> yeah, I think lobbying the government for *more* regulation is a bad thing :)
[16:31] <russss> I don't think we've really seen people doing stupid stuff in the UK, have we?
[16:31] <NigeyS> not that i know of
[16:31] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp091138213226.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[16:31] <Dan-K2VOL> russss the problem is that it's going to change, as these get more popular (and they clearly are, fast) someone will realize that the rules are not what the safety-fearing media would want
[16:31] <russss> the other thing is that if UKHAS has a system of voluntary regulation then perhaps it might be easier to get insurance
[16:31] <jonsowman> well I think there have been some issues with UK flights
[16:31] <Dan-K2VOL> I'd rather change them now to something that's reasonable
[16:31] <jonsowman> including passing through existing NOTAMs
[16:31] <NigeyS> i thin if we start asking for some official rules, we end up with a scenario where those rules can be changed and altered and extended to such a point launches become impossible.
[16:31] <Dan-K2VOL> Than have them banned altogether by a soccer-mom led mob
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> NigeyS, I can't speak on the subject of lawmaking in the UK, I'm sadly unfamiliar with the parliamentary process there.
[16:33] <jonsowman> I think the idea is to come up with a collective set of rules that if we abide by and can prove work, then when/if the time comes where the CAA decides more regulation is required, they will use our rules since they've been proven and people are using them anyway
[16:33] <jonsowman> it depends largely on why the CAA chose to increase regulation
[16:33] <russss> well, the rules are not defined by parliament
[16:33] <jonsowman> if that ever happens
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> But here, you don't want to go asking for more rules. You get a congressman to go the agency with a proposed change to the rules, all neatly typed up
[16:33] <Dan-K2VOL> So they just have to put it up for comment and a yes/no vote
[16:33] <russss> they are basically tertiary legislation defined by the CAA
[16:34] <jonsowman> I guess the "ruleset" would be implemented as terms in the notice of variation for the launch from the CAA
[16:34] <russss> yeah
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> I think that a voluntary ruleset would be a great start
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL> And fly for a few years proving they allow safe operations
[16:35] <jonsowman> I think that's the main idea
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL> Then you could suggest those as the template for rules to be adopted
[16:35] <jonsowman> indeed
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL> If you wanted to
[16:35] <jonsowman> I think it's a good idea to have a set of guidelines to give new hobbyists somewhere to start
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL> That's how the US ARRL and US AOPA (Aircraft owners and pilot's association) have made changes happen several times
[16:36] <jonsowman> it would only require a couple of people to do stupid things before the CAA have to get involved
[16:36] <jonsowman> I've known at least two launches in the UK done without NOTAMs
[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> The model rocketry hobby has this well done I think
[16:36] <jonsowman> I think it's a step in the right direction for both those reasons
[16:37] <Dan-K2VOL> Yeah
[16:38] <NigeyS> dont we then run the risk of a scenario where, for instance, a habber follows our "voluntary" rules, something goes wrong, and ukhas then gets the blame?
[16:38] <Dan-K2VOL> Btw NOTAMs seem to be much less binding in the US, they're simply advisory notices to airmen that we can opt to generate, or not. Most US flights do not take the trouble to call in and generate one
[16:38] <jonsowman> NigeyS: we need to make it clear that they are only guidelines
[16:38] <jonsowman> and that they provide no legal protection
[16:39] <jonsowman> however just because they're "best practise" rather than law, it doesn't make them worthless
[16:39] <Dan-K2VOL> I think lawyers would need to review it to make sure of that sort of thing
[16:39] <russss> you americans and your lawyers
[16:39] <NigeyS> agreed, as i think if not, 1 major incident, would tarnish the entire ukhas group / name etc and things then get very messy indeed
[16:39] <russss> :P
[16:39] <russss> 1 major incident would tarnish the whole hobby
[16:40] <russss> the fact of the matter is that a major incident is extremely unlikely
[16:40] <NigeyS> that aswell, but if someone in their defence says "oh but i followed the ukhas guidelines" ..
[16:41] <russss> well, that's also why it might be useful to build on the ICAO rules.
[16:41] <jonsowman> providing advice doesn't mean someone can fall back on it legally I don't think
[16:41] <jonsowman> not when provided as "here's what we think you should do, but it's your choice"
[16:41] <russss> also, there's clear evidence of good faith there,.
[16:41] <russss> (also, UKHAS *already* provides advice)
[16:41] <jonsowman> indeed
[16:41] <NigeyS> true, either way i'm glad james has opened this up for discussion
[16:41] <russss> that's the whole point!
[16:42] <BrainDamage> also, even following your guidelines doesn't mean you should consider every single common sense mishap
[16:42] <BrainDamage> like "do not stop the chainsaw with your genitals"
[16:42] <LazyLeopard> ...then at least the court is going to go and read said guidelines, to see whether the culprit did in fact do so.
[16:42] <jonsowman> I think overall we're reducing the risks here, which can only be a good thing
[16:42] <LazyLeopard> Yep.
[16:42] <russss> yeah, you can always argue that without the UKHAS guidelines it could well have been worse.
[16:43] <jonsowman> absolutely
[16:43] MoALTz (~no@92.18.83.227) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[16:43] <NigeyS> yup
[16:43] <NigeyS> jonsowman, picochu-1 is penciled in for 4th June btw
[16:44] <jonsowman> NigeyS: do you mean 14th?
[16:44] <NigeyS> it'll be a fully inflated 4 x 36" launch to get some burst / pressure data for Steve
[16:44] <russss> UKRA would be the obvious thing to look at as an example, of course. In general rockets are a lot more dangerous than balloons
[16:44] <jonsowman> oh, this isn't the cambridge one?
[16:44] <NigeyS> no the 4th .. this is the foil launch not the ats-1 latex launch hehe
[16:44] <jonsowman> phew
[16:44] <NigeyS> you can breathe now :P
[16:44] <jonsowman> I've got exams starting on the 6th, there's no way I'd be able to manage the 4th!
[16:44] <jonsowman> haha
[16:44] <NigeyS> nooo you must have head in books!
[16:45] <jonsowman> otoh, if you'd like to come to cambridge for ATS-1 on the 14th, that'd be cool :)
[16:45] <NigeyS> i've managed to find an alternate launch site, away from those lovely 10,000volt power cables ;)
[16:45] <jonsowman> excellent
[16:45] <NigeyS> 14th .. sounds doable, ill check for transport and give you a nod asap
[16:46] <jonsowman> anytime 11-14th inclusive is good for me
[16:46] <NigeyS> awsome :D
[16:46] <jonsowman> the following weekend in the mornings (18-19) would be fine too
[16:46] <Dan-K2VOL> Neat nigeys
[16:46] <NigeyS> oki dokie!
[16:46] <NigeyS> hey Dan :D
[16:47] <NigeyS> im undecided on wether to recover the foil payload or not, i have the weight margin for a chute ..
[16:47] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp091138213226.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[16:50] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A06240.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> back
[16:53] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp062038024084.dsl.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[16:55] jasonb (~jasonb@208.54.5.194) joined #highaltitude.
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> hi jasonb m1x10
[16:57] <Lunar_Lander> NigeyS?
[16:57] juxta (~juxta@ppp203-122-193-94.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[17:00] <Upu> evening
[17:00] <NigeyS> hey Upu
[17:00] <Upu> evening NigeyS
[17:01] <Upu> hows things ?
[17:01] <NigeyS> pretty good thanks, yourself ?
[17:02] <Upu> yeah not bad just decided what to do about launching
[17:02] <Upu> how long does it normally take to get a response to a NOTAM ?
[17:02] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[17:02] <NigeyS> i think about 4 - 6 weeks ?
[17:03] <Upu> evening Lunar_Lander
[17:03] <Upu> ok thanks
[17:03] <Upu> I'll give them another week
[17:03] <NigeyS> just the notam you're waiting for?
[17:04] <Upu> I need to do something about these parachutes as well
[17:04] <Upu> they need a mounting at the top
[17:04] <NigeyS> ahh, hope you're good with a needle and thread :P
[17:05] <Upu> well the wife does orthapedic surgery so I'll see what she can come up with
[17:06] <Upu> thats said not sure a dogs leg and a parachute are that similar
[17:07] <NigeyS> lol!
[17:07] m1x10 (m1x10@ppp062038024084.dsl.hol.gr) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[17:07] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> Upu
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> last night I failed hard
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7712/picture113if.jpg
[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> this was a bosch pressure sensor breakout
[17:09] <Upu> what am I looking at ? :)
[17:11] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[17:11] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Client Quit
[17:11] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[17:12] jasonb (~jasonb@208.54.5.194) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[17:13] m1x10 (m1x10@79.167.71.133) joined #highaltitude.
[17:13] <Lunar_Lander> the side of the pressure sensor breakout where the headers are soldered in
[17:15] <Upu> can I assume it no longer works ?
[17:15] <SamSilver> bbl
[17:15] SamSilver (2985f564@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.133.245.100) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[17:15] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-82-26-123-234.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:17] <Lunar_Lander> I think so too Upu
[17:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello GW8RAK
[17:17] <GW8RAK> Evening Lunar_Lander
[17:19] <Lunar_Lander> GW8RAK
[17:19] <Lunar_Lander> http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7712/picture113if.jpg
[17:19] <Lunar_Lander> the side of the pressure sensor breakout where the headers are soldered in
[17:19] <Lunar_Lander> I failed
[17:19] <GW8RAK> Overheated one and it'd melted and dropped out?
[17:20] <GW8RAK> You are not the first.
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> yes and I didn't break off six headers in a row but every one for itseld
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> *itself
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> had I broken off a row, they wouldn't have moved so much
[17:21] <GW8RAK> Don't hink of it as a failure, but as a learning experience.
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:21] <GW8RAK> I'm one of the most experienced failures on here :)
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> still it was the most expensive sensor
[17:21] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[17:22] <GW8RAK> The cheap ones never fail
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> you see
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> this afternoon I tried one more
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> a light sensor with three pins
[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> (16:24:52)<Lunar_Lander>http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4708/picture115vd.jpg
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> (16:25:00)<Lunar_Lander>http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/7623/picture116g.jpg
[17:23] <Lunar_Lander> (16:25:05)<Lunar_Lander>http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1871/picture117hk.jpg
[17:24] <fsphil> that is very tiny
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> and there is solder on the pins
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> but someone said it should be OK
[17:24] <GW8RAK> Very small.
[17:25] <GW8RAK> After a report on the news just now about power cuts due to storm damage, I wasn't expecting to see you on here fsphil
[17:25] jasonb (~jasonb@12.201.129.162) joined #highaltitude.
[17:25] <fsphil> we seem to have escaped the worst, only a few brief outages
[17:25] <fsphil> a few trees uprooted
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> I've had a power cut. It left me cold and hungry.
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> (for the entire 4 second duration)
[17:26] <fsphil> there are some places just outside of town without power
[17:26] <fsphil> all the traffic lights on the way home where off -- which was, interesting
[17:26] <SpeedEvil> Aso - some panes of glass from my greenhouse have blon really quite a long way and completely atomised on the path outside.
[17:27] <fsphil> eek
[17:27] <fsphil> no downed aerials except for my own HF
[17:28] <Upu> its pretty wild up here
[17:28] Action: SpeedEvil runs a current prediction for here.
[17:28] <fsphil> norway here we come :)
[17:29] <SpeedEvil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=94b93765ca54c41c16775ebad3ca483f8245286f
[17:29] <fsphil> not bad
[17:32] <fsphil> actually nice and calm here now, all of a sudden
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> well
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> The eye of the storm.
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil did you see BTTF I?
[17:33] <fsphil> don't think so Lunar_Lander
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> well in the end is a thunderstorm
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> and just after the lightning hits that sends the DeLorean back to 1985...
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> the weather is all calm!
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[17:34] <fsphil> oooh back to the future
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:34] <fsphil> never seen it abbreviated before :)
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> I think they noticed that flaw in Part II
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> because when Doc is sent to 1885, rain sets in
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[17:35] <fsphil> thunderstorms can pass by very quickly
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:35] russss (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlcwublwyicphdyi) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> it was just like there was lightning and high wind
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> and that one lightning strike
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> and then no wind or lightning at all
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> btw I just ate a snickers bar, there shouldn't be a big danger of residual lead that could be in the room, right?
[17:37] <fsphil> form solder?
[17:37] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:38] <fsphil> nah - you wash your hands?
[17:38] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[17:38] <fsphil> the solder smoke is mostly the rosin I think
[17:38] <fsphil> ooh the wind's back
[17:39] MoALTz (~no@92.18.83.227) joined #highaltitude.
[17:39] jan_bangna (~jandetlef@ppp-110-168-76-33.revip5.asianet.co.th) left irc: Quit: jan_bangna
[17:39] Action: fsphil charges the bateries
[17:39] <fsphil> batteries too
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> you got a windmill?
[17:40] <fsphil> nope, just solar panels
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[17:40] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: the rosin smoke is actually kinda toxic
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> good to know that I won't end like Franklin
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I know
[17:40] <BrainDamage> for small works, you won't get anything
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:41] <BrainDamage> if you solder everyday though ..
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> brb
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> for that you should have one of those vacuum cleaner type machines
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> brb
[17:54] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy
[17:59] <RocketBoy> yo
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[18:11] <RocketBoy> fine - just putting payload together to test a camera
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> I failed at soldering a pressure sensor
[18:11] <Lunar_Lander> but a light sensor came out OK
[18:12] m1x10 (m1x10@79.167.71.133) left irc: Quit: If you run you only gonna die tired
[18:13] <RocketBoy> ive seen - more practice with soldering iron is needed
[18:13] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:15] MoALTz (~no@92.18.83.227) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[18:16] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[18:22] <RocketBoy> seriously though soldering is all practice - you get a feel for it - so its bet to practice on some old circuit board first - or low value stuff
[18:24] <Dan-K2VOL> However, I gave up soldering when I was in school after much bad practice and many ruined kits. What I needed was some critical information - that the tip of my iron needed to be replaced, and I should be using rosin core solder, and flux would have saved my sanity
[18:25] <Dan-K2VOL> And also buy desoldering braid with flux mixed in
[18:26] <Dan-K2VOL> So Lunar_lander, those may help
[18:26] <natrium42> yeah, flux
[18:26] <natrium42> flux, flux, flux
[18:26] <natrium42> :D
[18:26] <Dan-K2VOL> and use bigger iron on bigger stuff
[18:26] russss (u30@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozmkwydwazhjrrog) joined #highaltitude.
[18:27] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[18:27] <BrainDamage> yeah, the tip stores temp ( heat capacity ), when touching something you draw it away in heat form
[18:27] <BrainDamage> the resistive element tries to replenish
[18:28] <BrainDamage> but having a large reservoir helps
[18:28] <BrainDamage> as well as having a temp controlled iron, but that's not necessary
[18:29] <Dan-K2VOL> a temp controlled iron simply allows you to use it on a wider range of sized joints, replenishing heat on demand, as opposed to continuous heat
[18:30] <BrainDamage> yes, also allows higher power without having higher temp
[18:31] <BrainDamage> mm, I guess I should phrase it as, what you said is the conseguence of my previous sentence >_>
[18:31] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[18:33] <Dan-K2VOL> Heh
[18:34] <Dan-K2VOL> Yeah, nice, but not necessary
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> One irritating situation I've found with soldering is when a pad is connected to a ground plane without thermal gaps around it. That takes an extraordinary amount of heat to solder
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> A hot air gun preheating the ground plane helps there
[18:37] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[18:39] <griffonbot> Received email: Martin 100 "[UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[18:44] RocketBoy (~steverand@217.47.75.8) joined #highaltitude.
[18:45] <RocketBoy> bbl
[18:46] mattltm (~mattltm@81.134.144.179) joined #highaltitude.
[18:49] <mattltm> hi all.
[18:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[18:52] <fsphil> had a very quick scan through that pdf, may have missed it, but what modulation style does ADS-B use? (FSK, AFSK?)
[18:52] <BrainDamage> what does afsk stand for?
[18:52] <fsphil> audio frequency shift keying
[18:53] <Elwell> http://adsb.tc.faa.gov/WG5_Meetings/Changes/UAT-App_C.pdf
[18:53] <Dan-K2VOL> Fsphil I'm not sure
[18:54] <fsphil> just wondering if something like the NTX2 could do it
[18:54] <fsphil> if it's just AFSK it would be very simple
[18:54] <mattltm> what about freq drift?
[18:54] <fsphil> not so bad for a plain FM signal
[18:55] <fsphil> receiver should still lock onto it
[18:55] <Dan-K2VOL> Elwell, nice doc find on the encoding protocol
[18:56] <fsphil> ooh nice
[18:56] <Elwell> dan google 'ads-b encoding' about 1/2 way down 1st page
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> you guys in the UK are in the prime spot to pioneer this stuff, we have really lagged behind in implementing ADS-B
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> ads-b?/
[18:56] <Elwell> SpeedEvil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance-broadcast
[18:56] <Dan-K2VOL> well, any of you guys in Europe are in a good spot for ADS-B ground station implementation
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:57] Action: Elwell should have a play seeing as he's not far off the approach line for GVA
[18:58] <fsphil> it's up in the ghz frequencies isn't it?
[18:58] <Elwell> I'd like to get one of those transponder-reciever boxes, but too dear just now
[18:58] <fsphil> could probably receive it with the funcube dongle
[18:58] <Elwell> that did occour to me :-)
[18:58] <fsphil> aah, 1080 mhz
[18:58] <mattltm> nice reciver.... http://www.lll.lu/~edward/edward/adsb/Very Simple ADSB receiver.html
[18:58] <Elwell> just. think it (fcd) goes to 2.1?
[18:59] <fsphil> it can do 2.something ghz but I don't think it works very well up that high
[18:59] <BrainDamage> actually, that link's name suggested me something else at first, which much be a future thing: using commercial flights as spy planes/ground radars for traffic monitoring, surveillance, etc :p
[19:01] <fsphil> http://www.avionik.pl/pliki/ADS-B-dane-techniczne.pdf
[19:01] <Dan-K2VOL> Looks like it's just On-Off keying!
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> hey sorry Dan-K2VOL thanks!
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Lunar_lander, np I figured you were away
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> I'll brb
[19:03] <fsphil> "The modulation used is PPM"
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> well, I don't know if it's wise, but it looks very easy to build
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL> https://trainingzone.eurocontrol.int/ATMTraining/PreCourse/SUR/ADS/Taste%20the%20Course/32501.10.32657.85.28722/Default.html a nice visual of the pulsetrain
[19:03] <fsphil> bandwidth seems very wide, the funcube dongle is not going to receive it
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL> for simple pulsed carrier wouldn't any bandwidth pick it up? (i'm not that great at RF, so I'm not sure)
[19:05] <fsphil> could hear it, but I don't think it would decode anything meaningful
[19:05] <fsphil> funcube dongle has about 80khz, the documents I've seen talk about mhz
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm not sure why it wouldn't decode it, it's like morse code in that it turns the transmitter off for 0s and on for 1s, so if you hear any signal, it should be interpreted as a 1
[19:09] <fsphil> my basic understanding is that the bandwidth is the bitrate * 2
[19:09] <fsphil> so 500bit/s would need 1000hz bandwidth
[19:09] <fsphil> I can't find a bitrate anywhere for this
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of.
[19:09] <fsphil> there's always a sort-of :)
[19:09] <Dan-K2VOL> Ah
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> Bandwidth is bitrate*2 only for rs232 and stuff.
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> Ish.
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> If you use multi-level signaling, it can go lots lower.
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> In short - you trade of signal-noise for bandwidth.
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> If you have 256 symbols per period - then you get 8 times the throughput, but a fair bit less noise immunity.
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> back
[19:11] <fsphil> true
[19:11] <fsphil> for this it seems to be 1-bit per symbol
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi mattltm
[19:11] <mattltm> Hi Lunar_Lander
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL the best thing was the response at sparkfun
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> "I haven't soldered since 2002 but I never soldered this bad"
[19:12] <fsphil> lol
[19:13] <Dan-K2VOL> Haha kevin
[19:13] <Dan-K2VOL> Ok according to this: http://www.tech-software.net/adsb_decode1.php
[19:14] <Dan-K2VOL> it looks like the minimum symbol width is 0.5 us
[19:14] <Dan-K2VOL> So that's 2MHz rate
[19:15] <fsphil> impossible for the funcube, but forgetting that it's a really simple modulation so could be done with very simple circuits
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> someone just said that I could try to remove the pins
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> how?
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> with the desoldering band?
[19:16] <Dan-K2VOL> I haven't seen pics, can you post link
[19:16] <Dan-K2VOL> Lunar_lander
[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> one moment
[19:18] <Dan-K2VOL> Looks like the data rate is 1Mbps, but it's like manchester encoding, so the width of the smallest signal is half that
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> (04:28:19)<Lunar_Lander>http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7480/picture112w.jpg
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> (04:28:28)<Lunar_Lander>http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6873/picture113bk.jpg
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> (04:28:35)<Lunar_Lander>http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2705/picture114d.jpg
[19:21] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh just have someone else help you with needle nose pliers to push the pins individually to their proper depth
[19:21] <Dan-K2VOL> While you have the soldering iron on the joint of that pin
[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> Brad and I have taken out entire 44 pin connectors pin by pin that way
[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> But it really takes a second person to not be a royal pain in tha ss
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I noticed that
[19:22] <Dan-K2VOL> Heh
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> also I did the following mistake
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> I broke off all the pins
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> I should have broken off a row of six
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> oh so you've got 6 indiviudal pins
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> That's ok, again, just adjust their depth manually like I described
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> and really just pry off all that plastic
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:23] <Dan-K2VOL> It's only job was to help you hold them steady for soldering
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> if I can get this one pin down...
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I just put the thing into my breadboard
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> it actually fits in
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> save for that one pin which doesn't make contact of course
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> Well, you could just press down on the table while heating the joint
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea!
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> :-) anytime, wish i could actually lend a hand
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> a friend of mine actually suggested me working with Skype on
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> so that one of you could supervise me working
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL> Looks like arduino has no problem changing pins at 2MHz rates when using optimized digitalWrite
[19:25] <Dan-K2VOL> Oh good idea, i'd be willing to! but the hours would be rough
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> np :)
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> btw my dad said that I could borrow his old Weller iron
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> That's nice of him
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:26] <Dan-K2VOL> What iron do you have now
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> well
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> there once was that magazine called "Real Robots" and when you subscribed they gave you a little toolbag with two magnetic screwdrivers, pliers, soldering iron and solder pump
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> and the iron has no brand
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> and when it heated it actually smoked from the back, so I think that it is not really good
[19:28] <BrainDamage> Lunar_Lander: http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/How_To_Solder/
[19:28] <BrainDamage> that guide is really well made, check it out
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> loading thanks :)
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL: http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1263/picture119u.jpg
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL seen it?
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> and: "a low power ADS-B transmitter"
[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> a transponder?
[19:40] NigeyS (~nigel@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[19:42] MoALTz (~no@host-92-8-149-15.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:43] NigeyS (~EcEnTiAl@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:44] MoALTz_ (~no@host-92-8-149-15.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:48] MoALTz (~no@host-92-8-149-15.as43234.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[19:48] MoALTz_ (~no@host-92-8-149-15.as43234.net) left irc: Client Quit
[19:49] MoALTz (~no@host-92-8-149-15.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:50] <HAMBotty> I Am A Bot
[19:51] <mattltm> And not a very good one.
[19:52] <fsphil> I Am A Huuman
[19:52] <HAMBotty> Bite Me mattltm
[19:53] <mattltm> bite my shiny metal ass HAMBotty
[19:53] <HAMBotty> nom nom nom
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[19:57] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:58] priyesh (~priyesh@cpc21-nmal17-2-0-cust75.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
[19:59] priyesh (~priyesh@cpc21-nmal17-2-0-cust75.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:59] <jonsowman> evening jcoxon
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[20:02] <jcoxon> evening
[20:02] <jcoxon> nice to see discussion going on :-)
[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:10] <natrium42> hey jcoxon
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> hello jcoxon
[20:11] <natrium42> and mister Lunar_Lander
[20:11] Jasperw (~jasperw@skeleton2.london.iofc.org) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello natrium42
[20:14] imrcly (~tim@74-128-123-149.dhcp.insightbb.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[20:18] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: my car --> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jQdVCwPSCb0/TdRzY9H0-QI/AAAAAAAAMdk/9ev4WV0wsbY/s576
[20:18] <jonsowman> mmm very nice
[20:18] <jonsowman> I'd have the 458 personally
[20:19] <natrium42> meh
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> and GT500KR?
[20:19] <natrium42> bah, who am i kidding, this is my car :( :( :( https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_jQdVCwPSCb0/Tcbv4_bSGkI/AAAAAAAAMIc/TrxFq9a90I4/s576
[20:19] <jonsowman> haha
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> the yellow one?
[20:20] <natrium42> no, the lada
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> Russian license plates
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC
[20:22] <natrium42> yep
[20:23] <jcoxon> hey natrium42 back home yet?
[20:23] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: nothing beats the trabant :P
[20:23] <natrium42> jcoxon: yeah, almost for a week now :)
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:23] <natrium42> jcoxon: missed teh flight on monday
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> and Opel of course
[20:23] <natrium42> in gatwick
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> Vauxhall for the british
[20:24] <jcoxon> natrium42, !
[20:24] <jcoxon> how?
[20:24] <natrium42> i had wrong time written down 6:10pm, but real time was 5:25pm
[20:24] <jcoxon> oops
[20:24] <natrium42> also, miscalculated how much time i need to get back to hotel to pick up luggage and get to the airport
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah and then you landed in the barracks or so
[20:24] <natrium42> oh well, flew the next day
[20:24] <jcoxon> oh well
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon?
[20:25] <natrium42> lost liek $300
[20:25] <natrium42> w/e
[20:26] <NigeyS> jcoxon :)
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> my systems are failing
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> so please tell me what happened to the balloons
[20:26] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, huh?
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> I think I ate too much
[20:27] Action: fsphil wishes the wind would settle down :)
[20:27] mattltm (~mattltm@81.134.144.179) left irc:
[20:28] Action: SpeedEvil lost at least 6 panes of greenhouse glass.
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> Well - lost is misleading.
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> I know where they are.
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> All over the path in one billion fragments.
[20:28] <NigeyS> yikes
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> After blowing a surprising distance.
[20:29] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: what about the manta?
[20:29] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon but I think it is a good idea to make guidelines
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> natrium42 we had one when I was still little
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> then we had a Kadett E
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> and now Vectra B
[20:30] <fsphil> ooh cool RocketBoy, it even shows mine
[20:30] <natrium42> :)
[20:30] <RocketBoy> and mine
[20:30] <Dan-K2VOL> Lunar_lander it would be a transmitter more than a transponder, as the word transponder is short for Transmitter-responder
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> and it wouldn't be responding to anyone I don't think, at the level of complexity we were talking about
[20:31] nelly11 (8afab1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.250.177.216) joined #highaltitude.
[20:31] <fsphil> "DANGER AREA EG D505 MAGILLIGAN ACTIVATED"
[20:31] <Dan-K2VOL> Just broadcasting
[20:31] <fsphil> sounds scary
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> thanks Dan-K2VOL
[20:31] <RocketBoy> and the bello-mondo one - there are too many sites in that area IMO - must be a pain for pilots to ring each one up
[20:32] <fsphil> not so many here - I've only had two calls from pilots so far
[20:33] nelly11 (8afab1d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.250.177.216) left irc: Client Quit
[20:35] <fsphil> what does the orange lines signify?
[20:35] <fsphil> they seem to circle around the Arctic
[20:36] <fsphil> ooh wait that's for the volcanic ash
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> or the russians
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> sorry ;:D
[20:40] <natrium42> >:|
[20:41] m1x10 (m1x10@79.167.71.133) joined #highaltitude.
[20:41] imrcly (~tim@74-128-123-149.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:42] <natrium42> http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/228000/228535_me_gusta.jpg
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:44] <griffonbot> Received email: "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[20:46] <NigeyS> RocketBoy, 4th June i've got the foil balloon flight pencilled in for
[20:46] <RocketBoy> oh cool - i'll put it in my dairy
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Foil, or mylar?
[20:48] <NigeyS> :D .says foil....
[20:49] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL> Probably aluminized nylon or BoPET, mylar is a trade name for the BoPET
[20:51] <RocketBoy> `Its a Qualtex - so I think its aluminised nylon
[20:52] <NigeyS> i'd go with nylon
[20:54] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[20:55] m1x10 (m1x10@79.167.71.133) left irc: Quit: If you run you only gonna die tired
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> Dan-K2VOL!
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> I was able to melt up the solder and push the pin in a little
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> now it fits into the breadboard
[20:57] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) left irc: Quit: The cake is a lie !
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> Hey
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> Nice work Kev!
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:00] <Dan-K2VOL> Sorry have to run, work was busy, and now it's over!
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> I only hope that the sensor itself still works
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[21:00] GW8RAK (~chatzilla@client-82-26-123-234.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:02] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[21:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Heh
[21:02] <Dan-K2VOL> I think it's the same we used on white star from the looks
[21:02] <Dan-K2VOL> Tyl LUnar_Lander
[21:02] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[21:04] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> Tyl?
[21:11] <jonsowman> i assume he meant ttyl
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:30] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] Re: UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[21:35] NigeyS (~EcEnTiAl@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> well
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> the sensor has now 6 contact headers that go into a breadboard :)
[21:38] <fsphil> is it sensing? :)
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> I don't know
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> I wasn't able to set up the arduino yet
[21:59] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[21:59] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[22:06] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-78-12-245-124.clienti.tiscali.it) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[22:06] jcoxon (~jcoxon@cpc1-lanc4-0-0-cust720.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:08] SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[22:23] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-172-188-211.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:26] <griffonbot> Received email: Steve Randall "Re: [UKHAS] UK Balloon Flight Guidelines"
[22:29] Dan-K2VOL (~Dan-K2VOL@96-28-232-55.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:37] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-172-188-211.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[22:38] RocketBoy (steverand@217.47.75.8) left #highaltitude.
[22:50] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[22:50] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:51] Dan-K2VOL (Dan-K2VOL@96-28-232-55.dhcp.insightbb.com) left #highaltitude.
[22:52] monti (5332f8af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.50.248.175) joined #highaltitude.
[23:02] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Bye
[23:05] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[23:06] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:13] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[23:13] monti (5332f8af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.50.248.175) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[23:14] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:20] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[23:20] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:22] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A06240.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Lunar_Lander
[23:26] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[23:27] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:40] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[23:40] fsphil (~phil@2001:8b0:34:1:21f:c6ff:fe44:b25b) joined #highaltitude.
[23:48] trn (~trn@adsl-065-007-181-160.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[23:49] trn (~trn@adsl-065-007-181-160.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:49] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[23:50] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:55] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[23:56] earthshine (~mike@cpc2-orpi1-0-0-cust69.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Tue May 24 2011