highaltitude.log.20110507

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[04:35] <W0OTM> anyone around?
[04:35] <W0OTM> what does "CD" mean on the burst calc?
[04:35] <W0OTM> ex: Cd=0.25
[04:36] <W0OTM> got it.....Drag
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[07:25] <eroomde> W0OTM: 4 hours too late - yep, it's co-efficient of drag rather than drag itself
[07:57] <SamSilver> bbl
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[08:02] <Josh_> hi guys, not sure if you can help me but thought i would give it a shot....come across a fairy major problem, the point and shoot camera i'm using only has a continuous recording time of about half an hour regardless of how big the memory card is or how much battery it has....does anyone know how to hack a sony camera in order to extend this recording time?
[08:02] <Josh_> i've even thought about using a small animatronics devide to push the button every half an hour but that seems so complicated
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[08:11] <Josh_> well if anyone figues a way to help, let me know or drop me a line at josh@jdtproductions.co.uk
[08:11] <staylo> Probably worth changing to a CHDK compatible Canon camera
[08:11] <Josh_> yeah i thought about that
[08:12] <Josh_> i take it there are no chdk software available for sony
[08:12] <staylo> sadly not
[08:13] <Josh_> ok
[08:13] <Josh_> thanks
[08:13] <staylo> np
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[08:58] <jcoxon> morning all
[09:13] <eroomde> jcoxon: hello
[09:13] <eroomde> a big box just arrived
[09:13] <eroomde> w/ bits ofr my new machine!
[09:13] <jcoxon> hooray
[09:13] <jcoxon> specs?
[09:14] <eroomde> i5, 8gb ram, ssd for boot disc and 1tb drive for ~/, gtx 460 gpu
[09:15] <jcoxon> wow
[09:15] <jcoxon> nice
[09:16] <eroomde> should keep my going for a few years hopefully!
[09:16] <jcoxon> indeed
[09:16] <jcoxon> case?
[09:16] <eroomde> fractal define r3
[09:17] <jcoxon> one day i'll add a 'puter to my G5 case
[09:18] <eroomde> they're nice cases
[09:18] <eroomde> you should
[09:19] <jcoxon> i have no need for a computer though
[09:24] <SpeedEvil> I also use IRC by mentally interfacing to the internet.
[09:25] <Darkside> your brain does 802.11n?
[09:25] <SpeedEvil> Only g. :(
[09:25] <Darkside> :<
[09:28] <jcoxon> grrr the age old issue, do you connect the antenna coax directly to the radio or add some form of connector
[09:29] <fsphil> connectors are sooo handy
[09:30] <jcoxon> but they break
[09:30] Action: SpeedEvil is so tempted to answer http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/plutonium/plutonium.aspx 'you can put it in my garage, for a modest fee'
[09:30] <jcoxon> and are hard to crimp
[09:32] <fsphil> sma connectors are pretty hardy -- but yea can be fun to crimp. longest part for me seems to be stripping the cable and core the right lengths
[09:32] <SpeedEvil> Did you know the UK is currently storing 112 tons of civil plutonium?
[09:34] <jcoxon> :-)
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it's the uncivil plutonium you need to worry about.
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[09:37] <fsphil> asbonium
[09:41] <jcoxon> eroomde, project squirrel, is the android code around?
[09:41] <jcoxon> ooo found it
[09:42] <jcoxon> wow well documented
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[11:03] <jonsowman> hi jcoxon
[11:14] <jcoxon> hey jonsowman
[11:15] <jonsowman> how are things?
[11:15] <jcoxon> good thanks
[11:15] <jcoxon> just searching for a ds18b20 to add as an external temp sensor
[11:15] <jonsowman> maxim do free samples
[11:15] <jcoxon> oh i mean on my desk
[11:15] <jonsowman> ah I see :)
[11:17] <jcoxon> also throughly pleased with the fact that my battery voltage field if / 90 is spot on the voltage
[11:17] <jcoxon> nice when things are clean
[11:18] <jonsowman> :)
[11:19] <jcoxon> get the email from wb8elk?
[11:19] <jonsowman> yes, thank you for that
[11:19] <jonsowman> the idea of different coloured up/down traces is a good one
[11:20] <jonsowman> as for "english" units, there's already a github issue for it, but I personally don't have the time to do it really
[11:20] <jonsowman> especially when I'm really developing the software for CUSF use, and we have no need of it
[11:21] <jcoxon> maybe we could email the list and see if anyone will take up the challenge
[11:22] <jonsowman> eroomde said a while back that he might do it, but I've not heard anything
[11:22] <jonsowman> so yes, sure. if someone wants to do it, I'll pull the changes upstream and onto nessie
[11:25] <fsphil> with the hadie/cirrus launch I switched to the cirrus module on the way down, so the ascent and descent where different colours -- looked great
[11:25] <jonsowman> :)
[11:29] <cuddykid> hi all, I'm trying to work out the best way of attaching my parachute to the payload! Would a metal ring (like a keyring) do the job or would it get brittle and snap at colder temps? Also contemplating using a parachute ring but then I would still face the same problem of attaching onto the string coming from payload
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> As long as it's not tin, it's fine
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_pest
[11:31] <cuddykid> cool, thanks
[11:31] <jcoxon> yeah key rings are good
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> 99.9% of keyring rings are stainless steel.
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> Which will be fine from -273C to 500C or so.
[11:31] <jcoxon> i've gone over kill before and use a carabiner
[11:32] <jcoxon> so you can prepare everything in advance
[11:32] <jcoxon> and then clip everything together before launch
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[11:32] <cuddykid> good stuff! ahh, thats a good option jcoxon
[11:35] <cuddykid> zinc die cast should be fine right?
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:36] <cuddykid> thanks
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Nearly all metal is fine
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> I think tin is the only one that has a possible issue.
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Well - and mercury - but...
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Sodium/potassium/... should probaby be avoided too.
[11:36] <BrainDamage> caesium!
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> I happened to open an ofgem consultation paper, to discover that the UK has 120 tons of civil plutonium. Maybe you could ask for a sample. It could also suffice to keep electronics warm.
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[11:43] <griffonbot> @RITBlimp: Come to the balloon launch between the #rit track and commons dining at 10:30am! #hamr #hamradio #arhab plz RT [http://twitter.com/RITBlimp/status/66830464702357504]
[11:43] <griffonbot> @KB1LQC: Come to the balloon launch between the #rit track and commons dining at 10:30am! #hamr #hamradio #arhab plz RT [http://twitter.com/KB1LQC/status/66830465998389248]
[11:43] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: Come to the balloon launch between the #rit track and commons dining at 10:30am! #hamr #hamradio #arhab plz RT [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/66830467621584896]
[11:44] <jcoxon> i think they might be launching a balloon
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[11:46] <jonsowman> hah
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[11:54] <cuddykid> lol
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[12:01] <jonsowman> hi ejcweb
[12:02] <ejcweb> hey jonsowman
[12:03] <jonsowman> how's things?
[12:05] <ejcweb> yep, all's well. just doing my best to avoid exam related breakdowns ;)
[12:05] <ejcweb> how about yourself?
[12:05] <jonsowman> hehe
[12:05] <jonsowman> yes I know that feeling
[12:05] <jonsowman> but otherwise, fine thanks
[12:08] <Darkside> ok, first draft of 5x5cm telemetry payload done
[12:08] <Darkside> of course, said 5x5cm board doesn';t include GPS and batteries
[12:14] <Darkside> http://pipe2.darklomax.org/dump/MiniHorus.pdf
[12:14] <Darkside> not-very-good layour and routing job
[12:14] <Darkside> tomorrow i'm going to try and work backwards, changing pinouts and such to make the routing easier
[12:14] <Darkside> instead of trying to stick to the schematic
[12:16] <griffonbot> @W0BG: RT @KB1LQC: Come to the balloon launch between the #rit track and commons dining at 10:30am! #hamr #hamradio #arhab plz RT [http://twitter.com/W0BG/status/66838869647163392]
[12:28] <jcoxon> antenna question
[12:29] <jcoxon> if i was to run the element of an antenna along some coax which is feeding it would it interfere
[12:29] <jcoxon> as in if i have a piece of coax and i loop it back and expose the core wire
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[12:36] <griffonbot> @paulstella: RT @KB1LQC Come to the balloon launch between the #rit track and commons dining at 10:30am! #hamr #hamradio #arhab plz RT #RITnews [http://twitter.com/paulstella/status/66843757894582272]
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[12:45] <NigelMoby> Hm
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[13:02] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: #arhab #hamr #hamradio If you can't make it to the exhibit or launch track K2GXT-11 on APRS at this website and... http://fb.me/JzlMHMMS [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/66850305609965568]
[13:02] <NigelMoby> Spam! :p
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[13:06] <jonsowman> they are being a bit spammy
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[13:07] <NigelMoby> Yup :/
[13:07] <NigelMoby> Hey speedy
[13:08] <NigelMoby> Looks like I can do my foundation exam soon Yey!
[13:08] <jonsowman> good stuff
[13:08] <NigelMoby> Yep, be nice to talk on hf rather than just listen in.
[13:09] <Darkside> i wish the noise floor around here wasnt so shit
[13:09] <NigelMoby> It was awful here last night, lots of thunderstorms
[13:10] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: going to do intermediate and full too?
[13:10] <NigelMoby> Hopefully Jon
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> NigelMoby: Congrats!
[13:11] <NigelMoby> :d
[13:11] <NigelMoby> Been surprised how good a 30ft longwire antenna can be.
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[13:14] <mattltm-alt> Hi all :)
[13:14] <SpeedEvil> hey.
[13:25] <mattltm-alt> Hi SpeedEvil :)
[13:31] <SAIDias> Howdy
[13:31] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
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[14:28] <W0OTM> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/k2gxt-arhab
[14:28] <W0OTM> Live video of launch
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[14:30] <cuddykid> watching W0OTM!
[14:32] <cuddykid> a lot of people there!!
[14:32] <W0OTM> tracker http://www.ihabproject.com/Tracker/?vehicle=K2GXT-11
[14:34] <W0OTM> this isn't my flight, but I am testing my tracker
[14:34] <W0OTM> :)
[14:34] <cuddykid> cool
[14:35] <cuddykid> are those just latex gloves on the balloon fillers?
[14:40] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: Almost ready for the #arhab launh at #rit! http://twitpic.com/4ulg5h [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/66874976170545152]
[14:40] <NigeyS> hmm W0OTM the trackers seems not to accept the variables on the url in internet explorer 9 .. how odd
[14:40] <W0OTM> NigeyS: hmm, i use FF:)
[14:41] <NigeyS> me to, but tried it in ie and it seems to ignore the ?tracker variable ..
[14:41] <NigeyS> vehicle*
[14:41] <W0OTM> NigeyS: thanks for the tip, ill look into it
[14:41] <NigeyS> just have it redirect to a page saying get rid of i.e its junk! lol
[14:42] <W0OTM> what im MOST excited to see is the live ascent rate calulations
[14:43] <NigeyS> yup, you've done a good job on the tracker nice 1 :D
[14:49] <fsphil> big balloon
[14:50] <cuddykid> why are they holding a sheet over the balloon? Is it just to stop it rising?
[14:52] <fsphil> haha, countdown
[14:52] <W0OTM> LMAO, video stopped
[14:54] <fsphil> tracker's working
[14:55] <cuddykid> W0OTM, does your tracker have a landing predictor?
[14:55] <W0OTM> not yet
[14:55] <W0OTM> I don't have the details of this launch to do predict
[14:55] <cuddykid> ok
[14:55] <cuddykid> rising nicely!
[14:56] <W0OTM> Im just testing the tracking and calcs from the APRS data
[14:56] <fsphil> weird seeing feet and miles on the tracker lol
[15:00] <cuddykid> I'm presuming that is some dodgy data rather than it coming down already!
[15:01] <fsphil> hmmm
[15:01] <cuddykid> all is good!
[15:01] <fsphil> probably a late packet
[15:01] <cuddykid> yeah
[15:01] <fsphil> arriving in the wrong order
[15:01] <fsphil> seems to be a common problem with aprs
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[15:03] <W0OTM> I also am displaying the ground station that received the APRS packet in the "Receivers" field
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[15:47] <eroomde> jonsowman: ping
[15:47] <jonsowman> eroomde: pong
[15:47] <eroomde> can't get pc to turn on :s
[15:47] <eroomde> pressing the power button causes not a sausage
[15:48] <jonsowman> power switch on psu? power button on correct motherboard header?
[15:48] <eroomde> i think yes to both
[15:48] <jonsowman> if the motherboard has auxiliary power ports (2x2 or 2x4 maybe), are they plugged in?
[15:49] <eroomde> i can't think of anything else obvious
[15:49] <jonsowman> you can test the PSU by connecting the green wire on it to ground (black) with a paperclip or something
[15:49] <jonsowman> don't do it for very long though
[15:49] <jonsowman> you should find the PSU fan(s) spin up
[15:50] <eroomde> ta
[15:50] <NigeyS> btw no power can also mean a a dead gfx card and or dead processor
[15:50] <jonsowman> this is on the big ATX connector 20-24 pin thing
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[15:52] <eroomde> any black jonsowman ?
[15:52] <jonsowman> yep
[15:52] <jonsowman> there's one next to it iirc
[15:53] <jonsowman> NigeyS: I would expect /something/ at least, absolutely nothing would suggest a power issue to me
[15:54] <eroomde> yep psu doesn't do anything when i connect green to black
[15:54] <jonsowman> hmm that's worrying
[15:55] <jonsowman> have you got another PSU you can test with?
[15:56] <fsphil> that should always do something
[15:57] <eroomde> i don't have any other psu no
[15:58] <eroomde> do you?
[16:02] <jonsowman> not one that's not currently in my machine I'm afraid
[16:03] <jonsowman> anyway, must be off for a bit, bbl
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[16:08] <NigeyS> ed check that memory and processor are properly seated
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[16:20] <eroomde> NigeyS: i've just tested the psu in isolation
[16:20] <eroomde> it's not doing anything
[16:20] <NigeyS> eek
[16:20] <eroomde> i think it's dud
[16:20] <NigeyS> deaded :(
[16:20] <eroomde> which is f*ing annoying
[16:21] <eroomde> especially with everything closed till monday
[16:21] <NigeyS> mightve quietly popped a cap
[16:21] <NigeyS> had a few of those in my time
[16:21] <eroomde> this was the first time i've ever used it
[16:21] <eroomde> you'd hope it would be fine
[16:21] <NigeyS> haha i first used a brand new thermaltake supply that blew a cap out of the side of the psu in a fireball!
[16:22] <eroomde> ouch
[16:23] <eroomde> not scan's fault but they're not doing much to make me like them atm
[16:24] <NigeyS> i bet :(
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[16:51] <MNSP> hello all :)
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[16:58] <Kaouthia> wow, more people in here than I anticipated... hi folks :)
[16:58] <mattltm> Hi Kaouthia
[16:58] <Kaouthia> hey mattltm
[16:59] Action: MNSP is unhappy :(
[16:59] <mattltm> Whats up MNSP?
[17:00] <MNSP> Arrggghh, bloody arduino code!! Not being a coder am finding it frustrating
[17:00] <MNSP> sorry, need to vent
[17:00] <mattltm> :(
[17:00] <Kaouthia> the arduino can get like that :)
[17:00] <Kaouthia> what're you trying to do?
[17:00] <MNSP> hello kaouthia
[17:00] <Kaouthia> hey :)
[17:01] <MNSP> it seems to be having issues with floating point nums
[17:01] <Kaouthia> yeah, it can have oddities when using floats
[17:01] <Kaouthia> just make sure any whole numbers you define as a float have ".0" at the end...
[17:02] <Kaouthia> if you float 1 and float 1.0 the Arduino treats them differently
[17:02] <Kaouthia> I always forget to do that if I'm assigning a whole number to a float
[17:02] <Kaouthia> and it can cause some very odd issues
[17:03] <MNSP> Thanks :)
[17:03] <Kaouthia> np :)
[17:03] <Kaouthia> just came in to find some arduino help myself actually...
[17:04] <MNSP> am actually trying to make up a string of diff data
[17:04] <Kaouthia> going high altitude is a long term goal, but short term I'm trying to get all my electronics and code sorted out before I think about launghing anything
[17:04] <Kaouthia> launching even
[17:04] <Kaouthia> ahhh
[17:04] <MNSP> what did you wanna know about?
[17:04] <Kaouthia> well, I'm trying to figure out the GPS and some kind of wireless communication
[17:05] <Kaouthia> so that I can log/track the unit, and find it when it lands :)
[17:05] <MNSP> ntx2 is the standard module
[17:06] <MNSP> are you in the UK?
[17:06] <Kaouthia> yup, Lancaster
[17:06] <Kaouthia> just reading up on it now at radiometrix
[17:07] <MNSP> ok and did you read the tracking guide on the UKHAS site?
[17:07] <Kaouthia> so, this will allow some form of wireless serial communication?
[17:07] <Kaouthia> I had a quick read through that, but a bit of it went over my head :)
[17:08] <Kaouthia> actually, more than a bit
[17:08] <MNSP> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[17:08] <MNSP> the idea is this: you put an ntx2 in your payload
[17:08] <MNSP> and anyone with ssb ham radio can track
[17:10] <MNSP> and the signal can be relayed to a computer to be processed and shared to others computer/laptop/netbook/smartphone via
[17:10] <MNSP> but I'm only a newbie at this myself
[17:10] <Kaouthia> ahh ok
[17:11] <mattltm> Kaouthia: NTX2 and an arduino uno...
[17:11] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/2011/02/18/basic-tracking-transmitter/
[17:12] <mattltm> Add a gps...
[17:12] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/2011/03/24/habat-test-payload/
[17:13] <Kaouthia> I only just ran across the UKHAS site today, but my original thinking was to use a Sparkfun GPS unit, and a GPRS unit (to have it update its location online, or via twitter or something) - of course, I realise at a certain altitude, GPRS communication would be impossible, but if the Sparkfun GPS also detects altitude, it would know when it hit the ground, and could then transmit
[17:13] <mattltm> So gps sends position data to the Arduino, the Arduino then formats into a RTTY string and send it to the NTX2 for transmission.
[17:14] <mattltm> There is a network of distributed listners who will recive your signal, decode the RTTY and automaticly upload the data to the spaceners.us tracker
[17:14] <cuddykid> a quick question - my 24" parachute doesn't have a hole in the top, does it need one/should I make a little hole?
[17:14] <MNSP> but the gps MUST be capable of working at high altitude
[17:14] <mattltm> Yes, It must not be restricted by the COCOM limits.
[17:14] <MNSP> All I know is the hole in the top makes parachute more stable on descent
[17:14] <Kaouthia> ahh ok
[17:14] <jonsowman> hi all
[17:15] <MNSP> alright jonsowman
[17:15] <mattltm> Hi jonsowman :)
[17:15] <MNSP> I've been hacking at the ferret code ;)
[17:15] <BrainDamage> actually limit is for altitude and speed at the same time
[17:15] <Kaouthia> now, when you say capable of working at high altitude, do you just mean stands up to the cold?
[17:15] <jonsowman> MNSP: it's a mess, I apologise
[17:15] <Kaouthia> or are there technical differences?
[17:16] <BrainDamage> but some manifacturers go lazy and hardcode an altitude limit :/
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[17:16] <MNSP> LOL, no it gave me some good ideas when compared with the mikal hart code
[17:16] <mattltm> Kaouthia: Look up GPS COCOM
[17:16] <BrainDamage> to avoid commercial gps units being used in weapon
[17:16] <BrainDamage> there's a restriction on working ranges
[17:16] <Kaouthia> ahhh, good point
[17:16] <MNSP> but bloody sprintf %f doesn't work with arduino
[17:16] <jonsowman> MNSP: there's an arduino library called librtty in the ferret repo, if you haven't seen it
[17:17] <mattltm> "In GPS technology, the phrasing "COCOM Limits" is also used to refer to a limit placed to GPS tracking devices that should disable tracking when the device realizes to be moving faster than 1,000 knots (approximately 1,151 mph or 1,852 km/h) at an altitude higher than 60,000 ft (approximately 18,000 m). This was intended to avoid the use of GPS in ICBM-like applications.
[17:17] <mattltm> Some manufacturers apply this limit literally (disable when both limits are reached), other manufacturers disable tracking when a single limit is reached."
[17:17] <jonsowman> MNSP: no, the sprintf compiled for arduino doesn't include it, as it uses a lot of memory
[17:18] <MNSP> I know now :/ lol, spent all day and yesterday trying to make a string to send to ntx2
[17:18] <MNSP> I was venting earlier
[17:19] <Kaouthia> I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the velocity wouldn't really be an issue with a weather balloon, or a parachute? Or can it actually reach those speeds?
[17:19] <jonsowman> ah right
[17:19] <MNSP> its easy to print what I need to serial but grrrr not to a string
[17:19] <jonsowman> it requires a bit of thought, yes :)
[17:20] <Kaouthia> and, is it that speed in any direction? (ie, up and down, or just laterally)
[17:20] <jonsowman> eroomde: get anywhere with the psu?
[17:20] <hibby> MNSP: I used the floattostring library and sprintf'd that
[17:21] <MNSP> ooo, don't know that one hibby... am off to google, thanks
[17:23] <hibby> MNSP: Full code is at https://github.com/Hibby/Strathclyde-HAB-Project
[17:23] <hibby> it's a bit ugly, but it works and the pretty picture I made matches it.
[17:23] <MNSP> oh wow, thanks hibby :)
[17:23] <BrainDamage> Kaouthia: the balloon doesn't reach the speed, speed in any direction, and as it was said multiple times, the problem is that some lazy manifacturers disable tracking as soon as altitude is reached, not altitude AND speed
[17:23] <hibby> is there to be used :)
[17:24] <MNSP> I'll go check it out, not a coder
[17:24] <hibby> i've got docs and so on too that I'm gonna throw up
[17:24] <Kaouthia> yes, but I'm looking at data sheets for each of Sparkfun's GPS modules, and this one here says that it will allow the unit to exceed either ONE of those two limitations (altitude or speed), but not both simultaneously
[17:24] <hibby> nice pictures of how the data flows and explanations of each stage
[17:24] <Kaouthia> which is why I asked specifically about the speed, which wasn't said multiple times :)
[17:24] <hibby> and circuit block diagrams
[17:24] <MNSP> nice!!!!!
[17:25] <Kaouthia> if there's little-to-no chance of actually hitting 1000 knots, then this should do the job
[17:25] <MNSP> I swear I've been doing this flat out last two days and am not gettint it :(
[17:25] <hibby> have to make sure the mechanical engineers who're scared of elec. engineering who do it next year have an easy guide and can just drop the components in place
[17:25] <Kaouthia> as I've never launched a balloon like this, I don't know how quickly it climbs or how fast it drops, again, hence my question
[17:25] <hibby> and focus on the mechanical bits of it all
[17:26] <MNSP> bookmarked!
[17:26] <jonsowman> Kaouthia: it will certainly not reach 1000kts
[17:26] <Kaouthia> that's what I thought, but always good to check :)
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[17:28] <MNSP> sorry wireless hang ups
[17:28] <hibby> I'll go and find the latex file and condense it down to the flight computer // HAB antenna thoughts
[17:29] <jonsowman> yay latex
[17:29] <MNSP> I'm not far off now, need to sort code, parachute, batteries ... ready to launch oh and some helium ;)
[17:30] <hibby> jonsowman: it's all about the latex goodness
[17:30] <jonsowman> hibby: it really is
[17:30] <hibby> I can help but feel I'm going to get marked down in my thesis because the editable document I gave them wasn't Microsoft Word, as was asked for
[17:30] <MNSP> phd?
[17:31] <hibby> this one goes towards my MEng
[17:32] <hibby> effectively took a year out to focus on the satellites/radio/etc stuff and finish it off properly next year
[17:32] <MNSP> nice!
[17:39] <MNSP> right am off to try out sprintf and floats again ;)
[17:39] <MNSP> see you later chaps :)
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[17:47] <eroomde> jonsowman: yo
[17:47] <jonsowman> hi eroomde
[17:47] <eroomde> just some polite advice
[17:47] <eroomde> http://www.hexoc.com/i/index.php/Altitude-Logger/IMG_1386
[17:47] <hibby> aww
[17:47] <eroomde> you need to be careful what you accidently leave in the background of photos
[17:47] <hibby> he went away
[17:47] <jonsowman> hahaha
[17:48] <jonsowman> it's the case, I promise
[17:48] <jonsowman> http://www.hexoc.com/i/index.php/Altitude-Logger/IMG_1376
[17:48] <jonsowman> :D
[17:49] <BrainDamage> yeah, exploring new depths instead of heights
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[18:28] <MNSP> hello all :)
[18:29] <MNSP> hibby: $$MNSP,1,19:28:42,51.89371,-0.38130,162.00
[18:29] <MNSP> $$MNSP,2,19:28:47,51.89371,-0.38131,162.00
[18:29] <MNSP> $$MNSP,3,19:28:52,51.89371,-0.38132,161.00
[18:29] <MNSP> LOL, half an hour after your advice and I got it cracked!!!
[18:31] <MNSP> stick it in google maps and its right outside my house
[18:32] <MNSP> I've been trying to make that work for ages
[18:32] <MNSP> Thank you :)
[18:34] <MNSP> right I can go and get some dinner now
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[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:58] <SpeedEvil> hello
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[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> how is the life?
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[20:10] <ejcweb> In my RTTY string, should the time be the actual time of the transmission, or the time of the GPS fix? I'm sure this won't make a difference at all, apart from potentially when above 20km and the GPS is returning old data.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> There are arguments for both.
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> Speaking personally - I'd output gps time, along with a sequence number
[20:19] <LazyLeopard> Presumaby, if you're expecting your GPS to get stuck you'll include a "valid fix" indication?
[20:20] <ejcweb> LazyLeopard: I think the only indication I'll have that it hasn't got a valid fix is the fact that it is returning an old fix (ie. with an old GPS time). So using the GPS time in the telemetry would show this.
[20:20] <ejcweb> I don't know how useful it is to know the actual time a message was transmitted though.
[20:23] <LazyLeopard> If you're looking at strings after the event then some counter or timestamp is probably helpful.
[20:25] <ejcweb> Am I correct in saying that I can add whatever custom parameters to the end of my telemetry string as I like? (all comma separated)
[20:27] <LazyLeopard> There's a UKHAS-preferred arrangement somewhere (possibly buried in the wiki?)
[20:28] <LazyLeopard> Very long strings sometimes cause trouble, if only because there's more risk of a bad character somewhere...
[20:29] <ejcweb> Sure. But if I were to include an extra time string, indicating the actual time rather than gps time at the end, then that would probably be safe.
[20:29] <LazyLeopard> ...and I've heard at least one person extolling the virtue of semi-colons as field marks in custom data.
[20:29] <ejcweb> Yes, I noticed that in one payload recently... I didn't know why.
[20:30] <LazyLeopard> It means that some code somewhere can treat th efield as a single comma-delimited item.
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> ejcweb: I'd not bother with real time - how do you mwasure it? A sequence number works as well
[20:32] <ejcweb> I'd measure real time using the system clock. It seems more useful than just a sequence number (I have to have a counter ID at the start in any case).
[20:32] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, if you know how quickly your sequence numbers are rolling then it's as good as a timestamp, and shorter.
[20:32] <ejcweb> Oh yes, I see.
[20:33] <ejcweb> Though actually I'm not sure I'll be sending telemetry at exact intervals, which messes that up completely.
[20:33] <LazyLeopard> One payload just used something like seconds-since-start as its sequence number.
[20:34] <LazyLeopard> Meant the sequence numbers weren't exactly sequential... ;)
[20:35] <LazyLeopard> ...but identified each individual packet just fine even if the GPS lost lock and nothing else updated.
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[20:41] <MNSP> hello all :)
[20:41] <hibby> hola
[20:41] <hibby> MNSP: I have more for you
[20:42] <MNSP> Og great, did you see what I posted earlier?
[20:42] <MNSP> *oh
[20:42] <hibby> http://db.tt/5OZPoYd
[20:42] <hibby> 15 pages of relevant documentation
[20:43] <hibby> and some other thoughts on antenna design
[20:43] <MNSP> Excellent!!!
[20:43] <MNSP> am just now working out the crc ccitt checksum thingy
[20:43] <hibby> the antenna stuff isn't accurate - it's an old copy of that section of the thesis, but it's mostly true, really.
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[20:47] <MNSP> bloomin wireless!
[20:48] <hibby> hahah
[20:48] <hibby> hope that document's of use
[20:48] <eroomde> hibby / MNSP : would a pdf of the arrl antenna book interst you?
[20:48] <hibby> very much so, yes :)
[20:49] <MNSP> I really don't know very much about that eroomde
[20:49] <MNSP> hibby part 4 onwards
[20:50] <MNSP> hibby: thats excellent, thank you very much :)
[20:50] <hibby> MNSP: good, that's the HAB bit :)
[20:50] <hibby> it's all good. I'll get it on the WIKI when I've got time
[20:51] <eroomde> curl http://www.cuspaceflight.co.uk/archive/Radio.zip -o antenna_handbook.zip
[20:51] <MNSP> it is great, just at my sort of level too
[20:52] <MNSP> I worked out how to get my string once I used floaToString library, and got it all working in about half an hour
[20:53] <MNSP> thanks eroomde :)
[20:55] <hibby> danke :)
[21:01] <MNSP> gosh its pretty full on!
[21:02] <eroomde> there's a lot of good stuff there
[21:03] <eroomde> if you want somewhere to start when you have a requirement for an antenna
[21:03] <MNSP> nice one
[21:05] <MNSP> nmea or crc16 checksum?
[21:05] <MNSP> am going to start with the ukhas examples
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> Somewhat off-topic. I sanyone aware of any iris recognition code?
[21:08] <MNSP> afraid not SpeedEvil, you going into biometrics?
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of.
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> I want a door-key I can't reasily mislay.
[21:10] <eroomde> ...
[21:10] <Laurenceb> make it bigger
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> That would be cool. I'd be able to see much more distant objects.
[21:11] <Laurenceb> http://www.bfgnet.de/Images/news/cmc_giant_key.jpg
[21:11] <MNSP> the doorkey or his iris? lol
[21:11] <MNSP> damn too late
[21:11] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:13] <MNSP> hmm you could always embed an rfid chip in you
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> Also.
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> LED flashes are quite bright when you try to take a picture of your iris from 10cm
[21:15] <MNSP> well security is based on what you know, what you are and what you have.. take your pick ;)
[21:16] <MNSP> *and/or
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> And how much you can be botehred to inconvenience yourself.
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[21:17] <MNSP> always that
[21:25] <Laurenceb> my dad made used a large steel beam behind the door
[21:25] <Laurenceb> you take a panel off the door and pull some rope to hoist it out of the way
[21:26] <Laurenceb> this was on a barn that kept being raided for tools
[21:27] <Laurenceb> unfortunately they took the roof off and got in that way
[21:31] <MNSP> beggars belief laurenceb
[21:31] <MNSP> but yeah I can well believe it
[21:32] <Laurenceb> hillbillies
[21:34] <Laurenceb> it was near it was up in the hills near buxton derbyshire
[21:35] <Laurenceb> thats what its like round there :P
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[21:51] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Twio successful missions (#89 and #90). Max altitude of 110,000 feet. Tomorrow we launch GeoHawk from Topeka fire station. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/66983554827034624]
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[22:31] <NigeyS> anyone after a ft-790 ?
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[22:32] <griffonbot> Received email: Martin 100 "[UKHAS] Re: Tuning payload transmitting aerials"
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> hello NigeyS !
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> why?
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> where is one?
[22:32] <NigeyS> hey kev
[22:32] <NigeyS> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yaesu-FT790-70cm-Transceiver-homemade-lin-amp-mic-/160582163363?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2563715ba3
[22:32] <NigeyS> 17hours left i think
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> 1 day 17h
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> too expensive currentöy
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> *currently
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[22:34] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fiat-Panda-Rear-Back-Exhaust-Box-Pipe-FT790-/360359471416?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item53e7192938
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> but thanks for the link NigeyS!
[22:36] <NigeyS> np :)
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[00:00] --- Sun May 8 2011