highaltitude.log.20110426

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[01:19] <W0OTM> howdy
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[07:01] <m1x10> Hi all
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[07:26] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:35] <m1x10> hi
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[07:48] <Upu> morning
[07:58] <cuddykid> GM all
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[08:40] <NigelMoby> Morning peeps
[09:01] <fsphil> hiya poops
[09:07] NigeyS (~EcEnTiAl@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:08] <NigeyS> lalala anyone else wake up thinking it was monday? :|
[09:15] <fsphil> yea
[09:16] <fsphil> ah well, really short week
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[09:26] <NigeyS> yups
[09:26] <NigeyS> i hear thunder :S
[09:27] Action: fsphil gets on a boat...
[09:27] <NigeyS> lol
[09:28] <fsphil> actually the lightning maps are all clear
[09:28] <NigeyS> odd
[09:29] <fsphil> they're not massively accurate though
[09:30] <NigeyS> true, was definately thunder though
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[09:31] <NigeyS> Warning Don't stand under a tall tree or object during a thunder storm. The safest places are Indoors, in your vehicle or on the ground.
[09:31] <NigeyS> lols
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[09:31] <fsphil> with your butt in the air
[09:31] <NigeyS> haha yush
[09:31] <NigeyS> morning John
[09:31] <jgrahamc> Morning all
[09:31] <fsphil> hiya jgrahamc :)
[09:31] <jgrahamc> Hello fsphil and NigeyS
[09:31] <NigeyS> good easter ?
[09:32] <jgrahamc> Yes. Had an entire week off and went away with the kids.
[09:32] <jgrahamc> Back to work today, hence I'm here :-)
[09:32] <NigeyS> oo good good, bad about being back in work though :(
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[09:34] <NigeyS> wb jcoxon
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[09:46] <jgrahamc> jcoxon: did you get the beacon back?
[09:47] <jcoxon> yes thanks
[09:49] <jgrahamc> Cool.
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[11:35] <Laurenceb> anyone here had fedex orders get hit be customs?
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> yes
[11:35] <Laurenceb> how does it work? is it the same as with ups?
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall so
[11:36] <Laurenceb> so i have to pay them?
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> they deal withcustoms for you, and charge you
[11:36] <Laurenceb> annoying when customs screw up
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> I thinkthey send you an invoice.
[11:36] <Laurenceb> ok
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> It's been a while though
[11:37] <Laurenceb> i had a delivery sent to my work address, its now showing delivery exception
[11:37] <Laurenceb> it could be as everyone is still off today, or maybe customs
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[11:38] <Laurenceb> guess i should ring them
[11:38] <BrainDamage> yes, they will send you the customs bill in a later time
[11:46] <Laurenceb> ok
[11:46] <Laurenceb> http://spatulatzar.com/hal/ <-lol
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[11:51] <NigeyS> A royal enthusiast has begun camping out in front of Westminster Abbey for the wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton.
[11:52] <NigeyS> so the idocy begins
[11:52] <NigeyS> idiocy*
[12:00] <griffonbot> Received email: Hannah Price "[UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
[12:02] <SpeedEvil> I was really astounded to get W&K R spam from dealextreme
[12:03] <Laurenceb> lulwut
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[12:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/wk.png wut
[12:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Hibberd "Re: [UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
[12:08] <NigeyS> lol speedy
[12:08] <Laurenceb> lol thats so bad
[12:09] <Laurenceb> powerwedding: its so bad
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[12:21] <fsphil> gel (or gelled) sealed lead acid batteries -- any special precautions for charging?
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[12:32] <Laurenceb> i wouldnt think so
[12:42] <TangoAlphaWork> Laurenceb: I had fedex customs bill. fedex had added on £10 or so as their "fee" for paying it for me. I phoned fedex and told them i wasn't paying their fee as i hadn't agree to them paying customs for me. they insisted that i was liable for the fee because i agreed with the original supplier to pay any extra costs incurred through delivery. i told them that they couldn't add fees because...
[12:42] <TangoAlphaWork> ...they had no agreement with me to act as my agent with customs, no matter what agreement they thought i might or might not have with the original supplier. after talking with her supervisor, the fedex person then said "just this time" that they would waive the fee.
[12:43] <fsphil> I ignored the invoice, they eventually dropped it
[12:44] <TangoAlphaWork> i wasn't going to ignore the custom duty invoice. customs & excise has quite wide-ranging powers
[12:45] <fsphil> in this case it was fedex rather than customs
[12:45] <fsphil> and it was a very small amount
[12:45] <TangoAlphaWork> but there was no way i was going to pay fedex a fee for then paying customs on my behalf when they could easily have just passed on the customs bill
[12:45] <fsphil> interestingly they didn't add the £10 fee
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[12:46] <TangoAlphaWork> mine was a sparkfun order for about £180, with import duty then added and then a £10 fedex fee
[12:46] <fsphil> may it was because this was such a small order
[12:46] <TangoAlphaWork> disappointed to get caught for import tax but absolutely certain i wasn't paying fedex :-)
[12:47] <fsphil> hmm.. all three of my sparkfun orders have gotten through without any charges
[12:48] <TangoAlphaWork> the sparkfun bill with tax was about the same as what i would have paid by buying from a uk distributor so worth the gamble
[12:51] <fsphil> good logic
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[13:22] <Laurenceb> arg
[13:22] <Laurenceb> power surge just knocked out my machine
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> Permenantly?
[13:22] <Laurenceb> its back running now
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:22] <Laurenceb> lost a simulation that had been running for the past week
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
[13:22] <Laurenceb> i should have had it progressively archived to disk
[13:22] <Laurenceb> my fault :(
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> Simulation of?
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> Or UPS
[13:23] <Laurenceb> thermal diffusion stuff
[13:23] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if GPUs can do FEA
[13:23] <Laurenceb> i should probably code it better, i can get at least 5 times faster performance out of it
[13:25] <BrainDamage> why not using preexisting tools?
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[13:27] <Laurenceb> im working in cylindrical co-ordinates
[13:27] <Laurenceb> but yeah i could probably use elmer
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Is this related to a carbon fibre tube with an internal heater?
[13:28] <Laurenceb> erm no
[13:28] <Laurenceb> why would it be
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> I was thinking this was the rockoon idea
[13:28] <Laurenceb> no - work
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[13:30] <SamSilver> is it snow?
[13:30] <Laurenceb> its odd - flipped all the trip switches
[13:30] <Laurenceb> but nothing seems to be damaged
[13:30] <SamSilver> trip switch as in overload or as in earth leakage?
[13:31] <Laurenceb> overload
[13:31] <SamSilver> a brown out - voltage dip can do that as well
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> Sure it'snot ELCB tripping due to cookers or something?
[13:33] <Laurenceb> no, i wasnt using anything at the time
[13:33] <W0OTM> Hello World
[13:34] <Dan-K2VOL> [world rotates]
[13:34] <Dan-K2VOL> Hello W0OTM
[13:34] <W0OTM> howdy Dan-K2VOL
[13:34] <W0OTM> LOL
[13:34] <W0OTM> whats new?
[13:35] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Building another QFH antenna, this time WITH an analyzer as we go. Video http://t.co/qxmmePt #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/62872388697722880]
[13:35] <Dan-K2VOL> oh funny you should ask
[13:35] <Dan-K2VOL> there you go
[13:36] <fsphil> aah it's arrived. now you can use science!
[13:37] <Dan-K2VOL> hahaha yes!
[13:42] <Dan-K2VOL> how about with you w0otm
[13:42] <W0OTM> getting ready for launch on Sat
[13:42] <W0OTM> finishing up some last min tasks
[13:44] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
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[13:51] <Laurenceb> most terrifying uav ever http://spatulatzar.com/fly_plane/finished2.jpg
[13:53] <Randomskk> haha
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[14:05] <Dan-K2VOL> indeed, a buzz bomb
[14:08] <Laurenceb> haha this site is brilliant http://spatulatzar.com/cat5/
[14:15] <SamSilver> I like his style of naration!
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[15:06] <Laurenceb> hmf - just had to pay fedex over the phone
[15:06] <Laurenceb> so insecure
[15:06] <Laurenceb> they dont have a web payment system
[15:09] <Laurenceb> trivial to intercept analogue phone lines
[15:09] <Laurenceb> or dodgey employees
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[15:17] <Randomskk> can't you just bank transfer
[15:17] <Randomskk> that's always how I pay fedex
[15:22] <Laurenceb> ah
[15:23] <Randomskk> the invoices have their bank acct details on the back
[15:23] <Randomskk> the lack of a web payment system is super annoying
[15:23] <Randomskk> I don't understand why they haven't don ethat
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[15:26] <Dan-K2VOL1> randomskk they certainly do here, I don't know why it doesn't work there
[15:26] <russss> http://www.bis-space.com/2011/04/26/1886/potential-shuttle-and-external-tank-viewing-opportunity
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[15:30] <GW8RAK> russss - a date for the diary I think.
[15:31] <GW8RAK> Do you know if the space shuttle is visible as a shape or just as a dot?
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[15:31] <SpeedEvil> dot
[15:31] <russss> at that point it'll be at approximately the same altitude as the ISS
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> unless you've got a scope or large binocs
[15:31] <russss> you might be able to make something out if you're nifty with binoculars
[15:31] <GW8RAK> I'm sure I saw it once as a shape in the evening sky and there was a launch that day.
[15:32] <GW8RAK> But it sounds like either a fluke or my imagination
[15:32] <Dan-K2VOL1> it moves very fast
[15:32] <Dan-K2VOL1> hard to track in a scope
[15:32] <Dan-K2VOL1> would be nice if the computer controlled scopes would add that feature
[15:32] <GW8RAK> This did and yet it had the arrow head shape.
[15:32] <GW8RAK> Never known if it was the shuttle or not.
[15:33] <russss> yeah I haven't begun to contemplate the logistics of tracking it with a scope
[15:33] <russss> I don't think you can easily do it with an equatorial mount
[15:33] <GW8RAK> Probably a satellite tracking software and a controlled rotator
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[15:37] <russss> ah, thierry legault does use an equatorial mount http://legault.perso.sfr.fr/EM400.html
[15:44] <blenster> Hey NigeyS, are you around? I have some questions about the LVL1/Whitestar video page
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[15:46] <NigeyS> hey blenster, shoot ..
[15:46] <blenster> It seems like Dan wants some scripting done that may not be possible
[15:46] <NigeyS> fsphil, my cats awol, what you done with him? lol
[15:47] <blenster> I said I'd help out as I'm a web-geek but I'm not really into scripting that much
[15:47] <blenster> I do mostly flash and XHTML/CSS
[15:47] <NigeyS> blenster, it seems unlikely i can grab the it to show on iphone etc, i have it grabbing the playlist via the api
[15:47] <NigeyS> but iphone would need to be html5 .. and i dont think the api is aloowing it properly in playlist form
[15:48] <blenster> hmm, well if it can't be done it can't be done... ;-P
[15:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> doesn't need to be HTML5, normal youtube embeds redirect automatically to the iPhone youtube app
[15:48] <Zuph> russss: those videos are incredible.
[15:48] <NigeyS> ahh, hmm.. might be doable then
[15:48] <russss> check out his other stuff
[15:48] <russss> http://legault.perso.sfr.fr/STS-133.html
[15:49] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL1, does it redirect a playlist though ?
[15:49] <Dan-K2VOL1> I don't know
[15:49] <NigeyS> i think it only redirects per video .. and will ignore the jwplayer playlist
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[15:50] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: are your solar collectors heat pipe based or direct flow?
[15:50] <Dan-K2VOL1> how about we look at a youtube branded page then, could that collect everyone's youtube videos simply on one page?
[15:52] <NigeyS> would have to check the api docs
[15:53] <blenster> BRB; gotta check the epoxy I'm using to patch my radiator... Been a fun day so far. LOL
[15:53] <NigeyS> kk
[15:55] <blenster> back... I have to gauge the tackiness just right as I'm gluing it vertically
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL1> well I mean instead of using the API just making a youtube brand page for white star
[15:56] <Dan-K2VOL1> and linking to that
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> heat pipe
[15:56] <NigeyS> ahh, yeah that'd work
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> How do the direct flow ones work?
[15:57] <NigeyS> might be easier, the api is kinda crap when it comes to trying to add data from more than 1 account dan
[15:57] <Dan-K2VOL1> it seems so
[15:59] <blenster> I haven't played with the YouTube API myself as much. I have my own video player I built that plays 4 formats and handles multiple videos automatically...
[16:00] <blenster> And my other project is connecting to the Flash Media Server (which is kinda crap, IMO)
[16:03] <Dan-K2VOL1> so your player can do what we're looking for blenster?
[16:05] <blenster> doesn't play on iPhones as it's flash and doesn't pull from youtube (but probably could be adapted to if you know the URL of the video source)
[16:06] <blenster> I've been reading over the experimental HTML5 player that youtube is working on and trying to find a way for it to do what you're looking for
[16:08] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL1, i'm on 1 of the telescopes in AUS at the mo, M83 ok for ya? :D
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[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> nice!
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> love to see
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> I'm surprised they don't just have a thing like flickr does with the group pool blenster
[16:16] <blenster> looks like the HTML5 stuff I am looking on is "opt-in" and users would have to do that to see anything in that system
[16:17] <Dan-K2VOL1> ok, so let's just either embed a playlist of each person's videos who has them on their accounts, or take a look at the brand page and see if that will allow us to put multiple peoples videos on one page
[16:18] <jcoxon> evening Dan-K2VOL1
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL1> hi jcoxon how's it going
[16:20] <jcoxon> not bad thanks
[16:21] <jcoxon> being playing with developing android
[16:21] <blenster> #afk for awhile
[16:22] <jcoxon> got a 'cheap' android tablet and am adding a gps module to it
[16:27] <Zuph> jcoxon: 'cheap'?
[16:28] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/uka41.jpg
[16:28] <Laurenceb> im scared
[16:28] <jcoxon> 130 pounds
[16:29] <natrium42> Laurenceb: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1GW8ynyIKIs/TZjdcMu3P7I/AAAAAAAAAEs/f_d_gdJMXpE/s1600/fin_gizmoduck.jpg
[16:29] <Zuph> jcoxon: Neat.
[16:30] <Zuph> CVS, a chain of pharmacies, sells a $70 android "tablet". 600MHz, resistive screen , complete crap, but evidently pretty hackable.
[16:31] <SpeedEvil> With source?
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL1> I wonder what the business plan for companies that produce complete crap is like
[16:33] <Zuph> Make cheap 'tablet', sell to dumb people who don't know any better
[16:33] <jcoxon> Zuph, oooo
[16:33] <jcoxon> what make is it?
[16:34] <Zuph> Craig.
[16:34] <Dan-K2VOL1> want to see a chinese laser cutter setup video with an anger management course's soundtrack? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej96PtqDTrQ
[16:34] <Zuph> jcoxon: http://www.androidtablets.net/forum/craig-tablets/9828-craig-cmp-738a-information.html
[16:35] <jcoxon> very similar
[16:35] <Dan-K2VOL1> ah of craigslist fame eh?
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[16:37] <jcoxon> Zuph, i managed to locate teh internal serial port
[16:37] <jcoxon> am trying to add a gps and make it sat nav
[16:38] <Zuph> Oh cool :)
[16:42] <SamSilver> bbl
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[16:42] <Zuph> I think I might get the crappy tablet to keep around as a pandora/internet radio box.
[16:44] <jcoxon> the resistive screens are okay if you use a stylus
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> Somearefine withfingers.
[16:45] <jcoxon> this one isn't
[16:45] <SpeedEvil> Iusemy n900 withfingers most of the time.
[16:45] <jcoxon> its okay
[16:48] <cuddykid> Hi all, whats the best way to code in a timer (for how long arduino has been running) into my script.. currently the only way I can do it seems to be if I delay everything by 1 second and then it will add another second onto the time.. hard to explain! (I'll try again if needs be!)
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> cuddykid: settp anISR toaddatick onto a time variable.
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> Idon'tknowifarduinocandointerrupts
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> And I need to clean my keyboard
[16:49] <cuddykid> lol, ok, will google!
[16:54] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: Check this video out -- High-Altitude Launch Prep http://t.co/I4iyxHG via @youtube #hamradio #arhab #hamr #tech #rit [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/62922558051336192]
[16:57] <griffonbot> @RITBlimp: RT @CollegeARC: Check this video out -- High-Altitude Launch Prep http://t.co/I4iyxHG via @youtube #hamradio #arhab #hamr #tech #rit [http://twitter.com/RITBlimp/status/62923287092674561]
[16:57] <griffonbot> @KB1LQC: RT @CollegeARC: Check this video out -- High-Altitude Launch Prep http://t.co/I4iyxHG via @youtube #hamradio #arhab #hamr #tech #rit [http://twitter.com/KB1LQC/status/62923288392908800]
[16:59] <Dan-K2VOL1> SpeedEvil, cuddlykid arduino can do some interrupts
[17:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> cuddlykid google for millis() and micros()
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[17:02] <Dan-K2VOL1> cuddykid ^
[17:02] <cuddykid> thanks Dan-K2VOL1!
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[17:12] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL1: Am I correct in saying that the millis() is basically an internal time (number of millisecs current program running) that does not delay the script that is currently running?
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL1> correct
[17:13] <cuddykid> Basically, I want a buzzer to sound after a certain time so payload can be found more easily!
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL1> oh yeah, use micros though so it doesn't roll over
[17:13] <cuddykid> so, I'll just check if millis > x and if so... sound buzzer
[17:13] <cuddykid> ah, ok, thanks
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[17:37] <cuddykid> can someone briefly check this code through (very short) for a buzzer (activates after 150mins)... compiles ok, but as noob in programming might have made a slip up! Very grateful! thanks - http://pastebin.com/nuMmLy5D
[17:38] <hibby> looks alright
[17:38] <cuddykid> I'll be adding it into my current script for the payload (telemtery etc)..
[17:38] <cuddykid> thanks hibby
[17:39] <hibby> one of our groups used an accelerometer and modified a rape alarm so when the accel. readings went to 0 after freefall, it set it off
[17:39] <hibby> and they used the accelerometer for other readings over the whole flight
[17:39] <hibby> food for thought ;)
[17:45] <fsphil> NigeyS, oh the cat is *in* the laptop: http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z167/Great_WhiteSnark/Tron_Cat_Costume.jpg
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[17:50] <mattltm-mob> hi all.
[17:58] <Upu> cuddykid if altitude <1000 and am_i_going_up_or_down=down then buzzer on :)
[17:59] <Dan-K2VOL1> might be better to just have the buzzer be powered from a solar powered super cap, that way it would beep forever until someone found it and murdered it
[17:59] <Dan-K2VOL1> :-P
[17:59] <Upu> indeed :)
[17:59] <mattltm-mob> lol.
[18:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> a beeper helped me find the first balloon that I flew a while a go, as it landed in 1m tall grass
[18:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> but after that I haven't flown one, and have had the luck to only ever land in the top of trees, clearly visible
[18:01] <Dan-K2VOL1> j/k not all, but the ones that you remember most are the ones that you go back to the tree every weekend for two months for
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[18:03] <modles1> What is the deal with insurance guys for a personal launch?
[18:03] <modles1> I presume i need some kindof public liability cover?
[18:03] <Dan-K2VOL1> the real deal is that it's too hard to get
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[18:04] <Dan-K2VOL1> so 99% of personal or small group flights fly without it
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[18:04] <Dan-K2VOL1> where are you modles1
[18:04] <modles1> Norfolk, UK
[18:04] <cuddykid> thats neat hibby! Upu, problem with that is if gps fails. Dan-K2VOL1, thats a good idea to have a seperate solar powered system for buzzer lol!
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[18:06] <cuddykid> will include a switch also for buzzer incase it lands in someones garden and annoys the hell out of them!
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[18:06] <cuddykid> leading to the destruction of the payload!
[18:06] <cuddykid> lol
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> hehe good plan
[18:08] <modles1> Dan-K2VOL1: why do you ask?
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[18:09] <Dan-K2VOL1> lots of things are different bout ballooning depending on your nation
[18:09] <modles1> ok
[18:10] <modles1> right, time for a bit of Derren Brown
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> and I also curate the UN's balloon watch list of international persons flying balloons without insurance
[18:10] Nick change: [STAR]Atanyi|Wor -> Upu
[18:10] Possible future nick collision: Upu
[18:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> :P
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[18:15] <eroomde> yo peeps
[18:16] DanielRichman (daniel@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-iwwuecyopmnsacxm) got lost in the net-split.
[18:16] <Dan-K2VOL1> hi ed
[18:16] <eroomde> modles1: where abouts in norfolk?
[18:16] <modles1> Norwich
[18:16] <eroomde> ok cool
[18:17] <eroomde> well, you should pop down to cam to see a launch sometime soon
[18:17] <modles1> 'A Fine City'
[18:17] <eroomde> i'm a hunstantoner
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[18:17] <modles1> that would be great, please keep me posted
[18:17] <eroomde> willdo
[18:17] <eroomde> most are announced on the ukhas mailing list - worth a subsribe if you're not already
[18:18] <cuddykid> as you've got clearance for the launch site in cam, can you launch from there with say a days notice?
[18:18] <modles1> no im not
[18:18] <eroomde> cuddykid: yes
[18:18] <cuddykid> thats good!
[18:18] <eroomde> modles1: I recommend it. it's pretty low volume so not a big mailbox burden
[18:18] <modles1> trying to find it
[18:19] <eroomde> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
[18:19] <modles1> thanks
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[18:21] Nick change: modles1 -> modles
[18:21] <modles> cool, signed up
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[18:26] <modles> anyone got balloons from these guys? http://www.projectaether.org/products.html
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[18:29] <cuddykid> modles: don't think so, they look fairly marked up to me
[18:29] <cuddykid> price that is
[18:30] <cuddykid> I think generally either get it from kaymont direct or get it from Steve Randall (randomsolutions)
[18:30] <modles> neither seem to have any stock :(
[18:31] <eroomde> modles: what size are you after?
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[18:31] <griffonbot> Received email: Lee West "[UKHAS] ATLAS Derived RTTY Code?"
[18:32] <modles> 1200 or 1500g
[18:32] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:33] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[18:33] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:35] <modles> crap, i just broke the duracell website
[18:35] <eroomde> modles: you can get a 1600g balloon from him
[18:35] <eroomde> that's in stock
[18:36] <modles> oh yes, so it is
[18:36] <cuddykid> could email him also as last update was feb, so he may have more stock
[18:36] <jonsowman> it has a larger neck diameter if it's the hwoyee one
[18:37] <modles> ok cool
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[18:37] <eroomde> that's good for neck flight computers
[18:38] <jonsowman> :)
[18:38] <jonsowman> how is it going?
[18:38] <cuddykid> modles: also try here, http://www.scientificsales.com/Meteorological-Balloons-Weather-Balloons-Sounding-Balloon-s/25.htm
[18:40] <fsphil> steve was unable to update his website a while back, not sure if that's been fixed
[18:41] <eroomde> best to email him directly
[18:42] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "Re: [UKHAS] ATLAS Derived RTTY Code?"
[18:46] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
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[18:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Dan Bowen "Re: [UKHAS] ATLAS Derived RTTY Code?"
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[18:56] <eroomde> jonsowman: good thanks. super lazy in burgundy
[18:57] <jonsowman> very nice
[18:57] <jonsowman> very jealous.
[19:06] <modles> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ecBbSIdBKI&feature=related :)
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[19:25] <griffonbot> Received email: Lee West "RE: [UKHAS] ATLAS Derived RTTY Code?"
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[19:42] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[19:42] <modles> evening
[19:42] <Laurenceb> perspex is a pita to cut
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[19:43] <mattltm> Laurenceb: Yup
[19:43] <mattltm> How thick is it?
[19:43] <Laurenceb> just spent 2 hours cutting sheets out with a hacksaw blade
[19:43] <modles> you need a CNC, i have one for sale :)
[19:44] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL1, id like to get a few more exposure before i send thi simage over if that's ok, the last luminance wasnt so good
[19:45] <Laurenceb> 5mm
[19:45] <eroomde> modles: tell me more about your cnc
[19:45] <Laurenceb> mattltm: hom much?
[19:45] <modles> its a Colinbus CBD-60
[19:45] <Laurenceb> i tried scoring with a stanley knife and cracking, but that doesnt work
[19:46] <modles> eroomde: like this but bigger http://www.colinbus.com/en/cbr_machines_en.htm
[19:46] <Laurenceb> unless you want to trim off from one side
[19:46] <mattltm> Laurenceb: For the CNC? Hold on, I'll ask modles :p
[19:47] <eroomde> hmm we already have a biggish router
[19:47] <modles> I want around £1500 for it
[19:47] <eroomde> kind of keen for a mill
[19:47] <eroomde> a manly mill
[19:47] <Laurenceb> hmm i cant afford that im afraid
[19:48] <Laurenceb> ill stay with my 50p hacksaw blade :P
[19:48] <modles> :)
[19:48] <Laurenceb> also my panels were 80cm square, so too big for that to have worked
[19:49] <mattltm> Dremmel?
[19:49] <modles> yeah, dremel and some alli 90degree
[19:49] <modles> that would do it fast
[19:49] <eroomde> Laurenceb: those cheapo sheers work well for pcb
[19:50] <eroomde> the chinese prisonor jobs
[19:50] <Dan-K2VOL1> nigeyS sure, what system is it through, gras?
[19:50] <Laurenceb> yeah, but pcd doesnt propagate cracks
[19:50] <Dan-K2VOL1> do you buy time on those?
[19:50] <Laurenceb> like pespex
[19:50] <NigeyS> yup, trying out gras-09 327mm RCOS . pretty sweet
[19:50] <Laurenceb> i would have used a wood saw but when i tried on a test piece it sent off radiating cracks too
[19:51] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL1, normally but i get a certain amount of time free as i do alot of testing for them
[19:51] <Dan-K2VOL1> neat!
[19:52] <NigeyS> :D has some advantages hehe
[19:52] <Dan-K2VOL1> I have watched a lot of Gianluca Masi's live sky shows where he uses the GRAS scopes, have you seen them?
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[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> I'd really like to be able to use a telescope to film one of these small ZP balloons ascending to float
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> would be nice if we could make a scope auto track balloons
[19:53] <NigeyS> yup the shows are really popular
[19:54] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL1, try it with something like a small refractor
[19:55] <NigeyS> http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1334 would be ideal
[19:55] <Laurenceb> modles: yeah dremel is pretty useful, but still suffers from the wbbly line syndrome and is fairly slow
[19:55] <mattltm> Dan-K2VOL1: My HABAT tracking platform could hold a scope
[19:55] <Laurenceb> *wobbly
[19:56] <NigeyS> think my C8 would be to powerful for a balloon :/
[19:56] <Laurenceb> i think the most practical way (apart from water jet cutter) would have been jigsaw with specialist blade
[19:56] <eroomde> we were gong to put a webcam and telescope on our auto tracking antenna
[19:56] <eroomde> but then we didn't
[19:56] <eroomde> The End
[19:57] <Laurenceb> lol
[19:57] <NigeyS> lol would need to be extremely stable
[19:57] <Laurenceb> a truly epic tale
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[19:58] <Laurenceb> if you cut pespex too fast with a dremel it starts to melt, but i found if i kept up the speed with a 32tpi blade it heats up just enough to cut nice and fast
[19:58] <Laurenceb> you end up with very sore hands tho
[19:58] <modles> can you judo chop it?
[19:59] <NigeyS> eugh the joys of cutting perspex
[19:59] <Laurenceb> lmao
[19:59] <eroomde> a good bandsaw and a gentle touch
[19:59] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:00] <Laurenceb> i ran over the edges with a belt ander and it looks pretty good now, just a couple of 1cm long radiating cracks where i jammed the blade
[20:00] <Laurenceb> *sander
[20:02] mattltm (~mattltm@92.29.181.248) left irc:
[20:02] Action: danielsaul is going to get to work
[20:02] <danielsaul> oops, worng place
[20:02] <Laurenceb> yeah its worngs only in here
[20:03] <Laurenceb> *worng* *worng*
[20:03] <andrew_apex> well, at least he was going to start working :P
[20:03] <andrew_apex> possibly on english :P
[20:04] <danielsaul> andrew_apex: Huh?
[20:04] <Laurenceb> ill have to put a stop to the jobseekers allowance then
[20:04] <andrew_apex> Laurenceb: now you've confused me :(
[20:04] <modles> :)
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[20:05] <NigeyS> lepricorns!
[20:05] <Laurenceb> lepricorn III ftw
[20:05] <NigeyS> :p
[20:05] <danielsaul> Im going back to #apexhab, where we talk properly in /me form :P
[20:05] Action: priyesh agrees with danielsaul
[20:06] <andrew_apex> i'm going to - too many lepricorns here for my liking...
[20:06] <Laurenceb> well i am half irish so...
[20:06] Action: priyesh leaves the lepricorns for #apexhab
[20:06] Action: andrew_apex follows priyesh and danielsaul back to the #apexhab land
[20:06] <NigeyS> lol
[20:06] <modles> guys, if your interested this is one of my other interests http://vimeo.com/3989767?ab
[20:07] <Dan-K2VOL1> for those of us at work who can't watch vids right now, waht's the topic
[20:08] <modles> octocopter
[20:08] <Laurenceb> oh sweet
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> Boring.
[20:08] <Laurenceb> models: what autopilot?
[20:08] <Laurenceb> io you
[20:08] <SpeedEvil> I only line n-ary-copters where n is prime.
[20:08] <modles> my own
[20:08] <modles> SpeedEvil: lol
[20:08] <Laurenceb> nice, what processor/sensors?
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> I have a design for a centacopter.
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> But I lack the several tens of K to fund it.
[20:09] <Laurenceb> dodecacopter
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> centacopter/ducted fan hoverboard.
[20:09] <modles> zx24n, ADXRS gyros and SCP3000 accelerometer
[20:09] <modles> as the core
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> You take 100 ducted fans with output of 2Kg thrust, stack them in a close array, stand on top of it.
[20:10] <Laurenceb> zx24n?
[20:10] <Laurenceb> modles: http://i.imgur.com/JtsgO.jpg
[20:10] <Laurenceb> thats a board im working on
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> Liftoff power of around 200Kw
[20:10] <modles> its an AVR 644p
[20:10] <Laurenceb> more for fixed wing tho
[20:10] <Laurenceb> ah
[20:10] <Laurenceb> nice, kalman filter?
[20:10] <modles> yep
[20:10] <Laurenceb> extended?
[20:11] <modles> the IMU is the hardest bit, once you have that nailed the rest is piss easy
[20:11] <modles> no
[20:11] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:11] <Laurenceb> hmm.. whats the state vector?
[20:12] <danielsaul> priyesh thinks danielsaul may be interested in http://vimeo.com/3989767?ab
[20:12] <danielsaul> [21:09] * | danielsaul saw it in the mystical land of leprecorns
[20:12] <danielsaul> [21:09] * | priyesh thought so
[20:12] <danielsaul> [21:09] * | andrew_apex makes an ;o face
[20:12] <danielsaul> [21:10] * | andrew_apex wonders how it would fare in a fight with his rc helicopter
[20:12] <danielsaul> [21:11] * | danielsaul thinks it would win - helicopter only has one rotor that needs taking out
[20:13] <Laurenceb> modles: whats the state vector in your filter?
[20:14] <modles> ill pastie, 2 secs
[20:14] <danielsaul> Sorry - didnt mean to paste that in here :P
[20:14] <Laurenceb> are you using seperate filters for pitch and roll?
[20:16] <modles> I combined the old faithful autopilot.sourceforge code with a push pull filter based on error
[20:16] <modles> but yes, two predicts
[20:16] <Laurenceb> hmm
[20:16] <Laurenceb> ah for roll and pitch?
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[20:16] <modles> yes
[20:16] <Laurenceb> interesting
[20:16] <eroomde> what's a pushh/pull filter?
[20:16] <Laurenceb> im suprised it works so well
[20:18] <Laurenceb> i was planning more along the lines of http://ukhas.org.uk/code:7_state_ekf_with_bias
[20:18] <modles> this is the push/pull i apply after the kalman http://pastie.org/1836641
[20:18] <Laurenceb> with velocity added in as well - openpilot have some very nice optimised code with that state vector
[20:19] <modles> people tend to make this shit more complicated that it needs to be, especially if you just want smooth steady flight, not acrobatics
[20:19] <modles> this is my full IMU code if its of interest http://pastie.org/1836646
[20:19] Action: Laurenceb likes the crazy maths :P
[20:20] <Laurenceb> what language is that?
[20:20] <modles> VB
[20:20] <modles> oh yeah baby!
[20:20] <eroomde> I dunno, kalman filters just seem like The Right Way of doing it
[20:21] <Laurenceb> they are crazy good
[20:21] <eroomde> they just sort of fall out when you figure out you have these noisy sensors you need to use to estimate state, and everything is linear, and you have previously heard of bayes rule
[20:21] Action: hibby has a shit-ton of awesome books from the uni library to enjoy tonight...
[20:21] <Laurenceb> ^that like i posted , it corrects the yaw gyro based on how the accel behaves
[20:21] <Laurenceb> i dodnt even realise it was possible before i ran the filter code
[20:21] <hibby> "VHF/UHF Antennas" "Antennas for all applications" "Antenna Engineering Handbook"...
[20:21] <Laurenceb> *didnt
[20:22] <eroomde> hibby: sounds like some lovely bedtime reading
[20:22] <modles> my IMU code runs happily at about 1khz on an AVR 644p
[20:23] <modles> you can also do the V aligned accelerometer trick to get rid of most of the lateral movement without the kalman
[20:23] <Laurenceb> i should finally have my remaining imu parts from sfe tomorrow, so can do some assembly
[20:23] <modles> what you getting?
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> obselete parts!
[20:23] <Laurenceb> itg3200 and bmp085
[20:23] <Laurenceb> yeah pretty much
[20:23] <Laurenceb> mems moves so fast :(
[20:24] <Laurenceb> i have lsm303dlh samples from st as well
[20:24] <modles> BTW if anyone ever needs gyros, accels, or other sensors. hit me up, i have a huge amount of extra bits i dont need
[20:24] <Laurenceb> cool, may de at some point
[20:25] <modles> im waiting for the MPU-6000 to be available
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> Yesterday - $100
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> today - $1.8
[20:26] <Laurenceb> heh i may stick it on v2
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[20:26] <Laurenceb> with a freescale mag3110
[20:26] <Laurenceb> if i ever get a far as a version 2 board...
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> The freescale accels look interesting too - lower noise than is coommon - 99ug/sqrr9hz)
[20:26] <Laurenceb> nice
[20:26] <Laurenceb> yeah the mpu accel sucks
[20:27] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/HfX3q.png <- thats the really cool example
[20:27] <Laurenceb> i added a large bias to the yaw gyro, you can see it drifting
[20:28] <Laurenceb> soon as the imu starts tilting, the kalman filter 'realises' that it isnt spinning about the yaw axis
[20:28] <modles> here was a quick camera mount i made using a ADXRS150 and IDG300 (terrible sensor) http://vimeo.com/6509694
[20:28] <Laurenceb> and corrects
[20:29] <Laurenceb> nice work
[20:29] <modles> that was not Kalman, just push/pull method
[20:33] <modles> i wish someone would stock the MPU-6000
[20:34] <Laurenceb> its not that amazing
[20:35] <Laurenceb> the gyro is good, but you need a good gyro and accelerometer
[20:35] <modles> the only downside i see is 200hz output rate
[20:35] <modles> its the onchip filtering thats attractive, free up lots of headroom
[20:35] <Laurenceb> the accel bias drift in particular is a major issue
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[20:35] <Laurenceb> you can temperature calibrate but that only gets you so far
[20:36] <Laurenceb> lsm303dlh accel is miles better
[20:36] <modles> this is by far the best accelerometer i have ever tried http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8791
[20:37] <modles> not cheap though
[20:37] <Laurenceb> theres ageing effects etc and calibration errors to consider
[20:38] <modles> right, off to get a curry
[20:38] <Laurenceb> wow 50ug/sqrt(hz)
[20:39] <Laurenceb> but large temperature drift
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> There are much better accels - you can get ones right down to I think 5ug/sqrt(hz) though they were about 300 quid/axes
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[20:40] <modles> the VTI inclinometers are great for slow moving applications
[20:41] <MNSP> hello all :)
[20:41] <Laurenceb> its a case of diminishing returns
[20:41] <Laurenceb> theres other sources of error in the kalman filter solution that are more important
[20:42] <Laurenceb> nonlinearity, temperature drift, cross axis etc
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Noise is only really important if you're trying to do integratioin over long perioods without GPS, yes.
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered how accurate you canget a pedometer + dead-reckoning GPS
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> err
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> with no GPS
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> just magnetometer + accel
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> (neglecting iron issues)
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> mag + accel + gyro
[20:43] <fsphil> man it's cold tonight
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> Using the fact that every footfall is a cal.
[20:44] <MNSP> chilly fsphil?
[20:44] <fsphil> indeed
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> 8C and dropping here - 12C inside.
[20:44] <NigeyS> fsphil, chilly ere aswell! :/
[20:44] <MNSP> ah bless ;0) :p
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> I should have put the tent-like structure that I am using for temporary storage on the _north_ side of my house.
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Putting it on the south side has done obvious bad things for the thermal input.
[20:45] <Laurenceb> hows the insulation going?
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Slowly.
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> I'm tidying up the various sheds - and getting ready for solar.
[20:47] <fsphil> mmm solar
[20:47] <Laurenceb> is it direct flow?
[20:47] <fsphil> I wish I had room for more panels
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Panels arriving tomorrow - ended up as 18*1800*57mm vacuum tubes for ~300
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> heatpipe
[20:47] <Laurenceb> nice
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> What's direct flow?
[20:48] <Laurenceb> water flows straight through the middle
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> ~1.5m^2 collector area
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> ah
[20:48] <Laurenceb> overall heatpipe is better
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> you mean in a u-shape?
[20:48] <Laurenceb> at least in my simcode it was
[20:48] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> I'm pondering adding a similar sized plate collector.
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> Though I'll need to do some actual numbers on that.
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> DIY plate
[20:49] <Laurenceb> do you have the top manifold heat exchanger thing as well?
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[20:49] <Laurenceb> cool
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> Well - it's a complete panel
[20:49] <Laurenceb> nice and cheap
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> nothing else
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> But cold water in, and hot out
[20:51] <MNSP> you boys are hardcore :)
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> I'm also cheap.
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> I'm not planning on moving.
[20:51] <MNSP> lol
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> Heating bill to heat the place properly on gas would be ~1200 or so.
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> Which I _cannot_ afford.
[20:51] <MNSP> ouch
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Currently on benefit due to health.
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Hence I'm trying to get it insulated properly, and not have to pay for hot water in the future.
[20:53] <MNSP> good call, how much-ish? if you don't mind me asking
[20:53] Action: Laurenceb just spent 2 years entirely renovating a house
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> MNSP: At the moment - ~5K
[20:54] Action: MNSP has spent day messing with gps and lcd
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> So I'm at the moment using electric blanket at 60W, not heating at 12KW
[20:54] <MNSP> hmm well worth it in the long run
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> which works out slightly cheaper.
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> And the savings go towards insulation so I can afford to heat the place next winter.
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[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[20:55] <MNSP> in europe they subsidise you to do conversion
[20:56] <MNSP> don't know what aid one can get here though
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> It's complex.
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> As I can understand it there is no direct help available.
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Upcoming is 'Green Deal' - which means that if I choose to get it done through that I pay lots more for my power over the next 25 years.
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> And cannot DIY at all - so the price of the job will be around 6-10* what I'm spending.
[20:57] <MNSP> :-O
[20:57] <SpeedEvil> Now, there is help for cavity wall, and loft insulation.
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[20:58] <SpeedEvil> But I can't do cavity - no cavity - and already have loft.
[20:58] <Laurenceb> MNSP: before/during http://i.imgur.com/ciqoC.jpg after http://i.imgur.com/46J0C.jpg
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> There are disabled facilities grants - but only for adapting the house - not insulating it.
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> I'm at the 'before' picture stage.
[20:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:58] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> Though I'm aiming more for a rather more simple outcome.
[20:59] <Laurenceb> well thats after the walls were done - annoyingly i have few photos of that stage as i was working flat out
[20:59] <MNSP> Bloomin ell :aurenceb
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[20:59] <MNSP> thats some proper work there
[20:59] <Laurenceb> i didnt do the plastering tho
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls.html
[21:00] <MNSP> you put the kitchen in?
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> It's not properly finishred here
[21:00] <Laurenceb> yeah, and insulation, bricklaying etc
[21:00] <MNSP> like I said earlier, you boys are hardcore :)
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[21:01] <MNSP> lol, pun intended
[21:01] <Laurenceb> well it was straight down to bedrock at the back so no hardcore needed :P
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Wish I had bedrock in a way - it's on sand.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> ith no actual foundations.
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[21:04] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/a8Nif.jpg
[21:04] <Laurenceb> thats the rear view early on
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> This power meter is really handy.
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> 'hmm - when did I put the washing machine on' ->graph -> ah - 20:34
[21:05] <MNSP> Nice looking house laurenceb
[21:06] <Laurenceb> flat roof is fibreglass
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> AFK - fixing shelving in shed
[21:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Lee West "RE: [UKHAS] ATLAS Derived RTTY Code?"
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[21:12] <MNSP> right-o time to go, night chaps :)
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[22:02] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming "Re: [UKHAS] ATLAS Derived RTTY Code?"
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[22:03] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/EYs0B.jpg
[22:04] <Laurenceb> ^possible noctilucent cloud?
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> Chemtrail.
[22:04] <Laurenceb> clearly
[22:04] <Laurenceb> found it on my camera- from last summer
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[22:07] <LazyLeopard> There were some good noctilucent clouds last summer...
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> I don't recall seeing any.
[22:09] <LazyLeopard> ...and in 2009, too.
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Probably as I'm usually going to bed at around that time.
[22:10] <LazyLeopard> A few photos (among other subjects) --> http://gallery.orpington-astronomy.org.uk/thumbnails-14.html
[22:12] <LazyLeopard> A good time of evening would seem to be 21:30 UTC in July. ;)
[22:12] <LazyLeopard> ...at least here in the southern UK.
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[23:00] <griffonbot> @zuph: http://twitpic.com/4pwt1x quad helix number 4! #arhab @LVL1WhiteStar [http://twitter.com/zuph/status/63014550932426753]
[23:00] <hibby> grumble grumble
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[23:25] <Zuph> Holy Crap the quad helix rocks!
[23:26] <hibby> Zuph: what band's it on?
[23:26] <hibby> quadrifiliar helix? What kind of gain you expecting?
[23:28] <Zuph> hibby: For our orbcomm, 149MHz
[23:28] <Zuph> hibby: Don't know what kind if gain we're getting, but it outperforms any dipole or j-pole we've tried.
[23:29] <Zuph> Heck, possible outperforms out 5/8ths wave ground plane.
[23:32] <hibby> nice. Take it it's not in axial mode then
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 27 2011