[00:00] <W0OTM> Howdy
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello W0OTM
[00:02] <W0OTM> Hey Lunar_Lander
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[00:03] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[00:04] <W0OTM> good good
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> mine too
[00:05] <Lunar_Lander> happy easter
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> working towards iHAB-4?
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[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> W0OTM
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[00:48] <W0OTM> yes
[00:49] <W0OTM> Lunar_Lander: sorry got disctracted
[00:50] <Lunar_Lander> np
[00:50] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[00:59] <W0OTM> Lunar_Lander: Did you see my new video
[00:59] <Lunar_Lander> which one?
[00:59] <W0OTM> of the trailer
[01:00] <W0OTM> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n51vKNDXwik
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[01:08] <Lunar_Lander> I like it :)
[01:11] <W0OTM> :)
[01:11] <Lunar_Lander> well done :)
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[01:13] <Lunar_Lander2> back :)
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[01:16] <Lunar_Lander2> and the license plate :)
[01:24] <W0OTM> :)
[01:50] <TangoAlpha> nice trailer :-)
[01:50] <W0OTM> TangoAlpha: thx
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[02:43] <Zuph> /away arg
[02:43] <Zuph> bah
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[06:51] <mattltm> Morning :)
[07:14] <NigelMoby> Moooooooorning
[07:15] <mattltm> Hey Nigey
[07:15] <NigelMoby> Hey dude
[07:16] <NigelMoby> Lovely day!
[07:16] <mattltm> Yup. I'll be in the garden most of today.
[07:17] <NigelMoby> Oh forgot to ask .. which arduino did u get?
[07:17] <mattltm> I got a batch of Uno's
[07:17] <NigelMoby> With the removable chip?
[07:17] <mattltm> Yup.
[07:18] <mattltm> and I have a few prototype sheilds.
[07:18] <NigelMoby> Oo, can u bring 1 Friday? I can use it to burn the bootloader to a blank 168
[07:19] <mattltm> Bring an uno? Sure, no probs :)
[07:20] <NigelMoby> Cheers dudey saves me getting an isp this week.
[07:21] <mattltm> What youup to today?
[07:21] <NigelMoby> Well...
[07:22] <NigelMoby> Gf Jus took 1 of my 36" balloons to work to inflate so I may build and launch a beacon at sunset lol
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[07:23] <mattltm> Cool.
[07:24] <NigelMoby> Apart from that... bugger all
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[07:30] <mattltm> Nigey, are you going to go for a foundation licence?
[07:31] <NigelMoby> At some point Yup
[07:31] <mattltm> Cool. I have a spare copy of the book. You want to borrow it?
[07:32] <NigelMoby> Got it.. john sent a copy, haven't read it yet mind.
[07:33] <mattltm> Ahh, ok then :)
[07:33] <mattltm> Looks like we are all recruting :)
[07:33] <NigelMoby> Yup lol
[07:38] <NigelMoby> Right bbs breakfast!!
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[07:56] <mattltm> Grrrr! I hat ofcom!
[07:56] <mattltm> lol. and so does my keyboard!
[07:56] <mattltm> eeeee! yes it does work.
[07:56] <mattltm> I hate ofcom.
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[08:26] <fsphil> hmm.. NigelMoby you've still got the sun hidden away I see?
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[08:30] <NigelMoby> I'm stealing it Phil :p
[08:31] <NigelMoby> Morning James
[08:32] <jcoxon> night :-)
[08:35] <fsphil> that's gotta be weird
[08:35] <NigelMoby> Oh aye ure on nights
[08:35] <jcoxon> finished this run
[08:36] <jcoxon> so now need to get back into normal mode
[08:36] <NigelMoby> Yuck, I did nights for 8 years, you never quite get used to it.
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[08:48] <mattltm> windows 7 is not my idea and im proud of it.
[08:49] <fsphil> I don't think it was anyone's idea .. it just sort of happened
[08:49] <fsphil> like natural disasters
[08:49] <mattltm> Just spent 2 hours trying to install a usb to serial driver :(
[08:50] <Darkside> pl2303?
[08:50] <mattltm> got it in one Darkside
[08:50] <Upu> yay :)
[08:50] <Darkside> hehe
[08:50] <Upu> 64 bit windows 7 ?
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[08:50] <Darkside> different versions, different driver versions
[08:50] <Darkside> such a shit chipset
[08:50] <Upu> found windriver.zip ?
[08:50] <Darkside> i try and stick to ftdi
[08:50] <fsphil> someone should port the linux driver to windows
[08:50] <mattltm> LOL - Yes win 7 64 bit.
[08:51] <Upu> if you will buy cheap chinese cables from E-Bay...
[08:51] <mattltm> Upu: Not found that one..
[08:51] <Upu> yeah been there
[08:51] <Upu> you just need to get windriver.zip
[08:51] <Upu> most of the links to which are dead
[08:51] <mattltm> Upu: Have you got a live one?
[08:52] <Upu> let me find it
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[08:52] <Upu> http://www.usglobalsat.com/download/546/win_drivers.zip this is a dead link
[08:53] <mattltm> Yup, found that one :(
[08:54] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/PL2303_Prolific_GPS_AllInOne_1013.exe
[08:54] <Upu> thats the one I used
[08:55] Action: mattltm gets excited
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[08:56] <Shuffty> Morning all. :-)
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[08:58] <Upu> morning Shuffty
[08:58] <Shuffty> Hey upu.
[08:59] <Shuffty> Upu, do you know anything about scanners? Just off out to buy one, and not sure which to get.
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[09:01] <mattltm> Upu: My first born is yours.
[09:01] <Shuffty> :-)
[09:01] <SamSilver> bbl
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[09:05] <fsphil> lol
[09:06] <mattltm> Great CAT control is now working :)
[09:06] <Upu> heh no problems
[09:06] <Upu> scanners go for an Epson they tend to be good depends what you want out of ity
[09:06] <fsphil> so you can tune the radio via the mini digi usb thingy?
[09:07] <Upu> if you want to scan negatives and stuff in there are lots of scanners out there that do that
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[09:08] <mattltm> fsphil: Yes. Working with wspr, hrd and dl-fldigi :)
[09:08] <fsphil> sweet
[09:09] <fsphil> it doesn't have the built in usb sound card right? just has audio out -> pc's line in / out?
[09:10] <mattltm> I have a minipro usb interface too...
[09:10] <mattltm> http://www.g4zlp.co.uk/unified/DM_MiniPRO.shtml
[09:10] <mattltm> Isolated audio in/out and PTT control too.
[09:10] <fsphil> that's the one I was looking at -- from the description it doesn't seem to do cat
[09:10] <mattltm> So I can key the radio from the CAT or from the minipro
[09:11] <mattltm> He does one with built in cat
[09:11] <fsphil> yea I've an older version of that one (the one with cat)
[09:11] <mattltm> http://www.g4zlp.co.uk/unified/DM_PRO_PLUS_complete.shtml
[09:11] <fsphil> only this one doesn't have the volume controls
[09:12] <fsphil> so the minipro handles audio and PTT, but not control right?
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[09:16] <mattltm> Yup.
[09:16] <mattltm> Its a nice little interface for digi modes.
[09:16] <cuddykid> GM all!
[09:17] <fsphil> yea I like mine, though the cables at the back are a little wonky :)
[09:17] <fsphil> morning cuddykid!
[09:17] <cuddykid> morning fsphil!
[09:17] <cuddykid> another lovely day
[09:17] <cuddykid> perfect for a HAB launch.... if only!
[09:18] <fsphil> I'll be doing a range test today, with the new coax antenna - and hopefully the 869mhz module too
[09:19] <Upu> range test on what fsphil ?
[09:19] <Shuffty> Lol - meant a radio scanner upu :-)
[09:19] <fsphil> the antenna I made for hadie-3 -- I'm not taking any chances this time :)
[09:19] <Upu> haha ok
[09:20] <Shuffty> Just bought a psr 295 - figure I can change it if I need too
[09:20] <fsphil> also I've got an 869mhz module setup on breadboard, transmitting with 500mw
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[09:31] <mattltm> Shuffty - What do you want to use the scanner for? HAB tracking?
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[09:51] <fsphil> yay the sun came out
[09:56] <cuddykid> do the parachutes from spherachute come with a hole or string from the top so it can easily be stringed to the balloon?
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[10:01] <Upu> I hope they do cuddykid as I just ordered 2
[10:01] <Upu> I'll let you know as soon as they turn up
[10:04] <cuddykid> thanks upu!
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[10:10] <Upu> whos payload is EOS ?
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[10:10] Nick change: andrew_apex_ -> andrew_apex
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[10:30] <cuddykid> anyone know a good tutorial for chdk scripts?
[10:32] <cuddykid> I've found one!
[10:36] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=78
[10:40] <cuddykid> good article Upu
[10:40] <Upu> might help a little
[10:40] <Upu> it was more notes for me :)
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[10:49] <elyptikus> hi
[10:50] <elyptikus> anybody here?
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[10:51] <Upu> negative no one here
[10:51] <Upu> all out in the sun..oh wai..
[10:53] <elyptikus> are you also planing a project with space ballons?
[10:54] <Darkside> you mean weather balloons?
[10:54] <elyptikus> yes :D
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> echoi
[10:54] <Darkside> many people here have done high altitude weather balloon launches, me included
[10:54] <elyptikus> cool
[10:54] <Darkside> i'm involved with projecthorus.org - juxta is the team leader
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[10:55] <Upu> they don't get quite as far as space but the pictures are queit impressive
[10:55] <Upu> quiet even
[10:55] <elyptikus> yes i have seen a lot of them
[10:55] <elyptikus> but now i will also do something like that
[10:55] <Upu> you interested in starting one yourself ?
[10:55] <Upu> very good
[10:56] <Upu> well have a good read of ukhas.org.uk there are links to most of the project blogs on there and heaps of information
[10:56] <Upu> https://ukhas.org.uk
[10:56] <elyptikus> thanks
[10:57] <Upu> you know I'm going to have to put some sun cream on it's really sunny out there
[10:57] <elyptikus> where are you from?
[10:57] <Upu> I'm in the UK
[10:57] <elyptikus> do you think that a launch in switzerland will be possible?
[10:58] <Upu> depends on your local laws but I'd be surprised if it wasn't
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[10:58] <elyptikus> the laws wouldn't be the problem but in switzerland there are everywhere houses, mountains or lakes
[10:59] <elyptikus> haven't you ever had a problem with this?
[11:01] <elyptikus> ?
[11:02] <Upu> Hmm sorry just go to afk
[11:02] <Upu> I'll be back in a bit hopefully someone else can assist fsphil is good at crashing into hills
[11:02] <Upu> afk !
[11:03] <fsphil> that hill deserved ot
[11:03] <fsphil> it*
[11:09] <cuddykid> elyptikus, it should be fine, the chances of landing on a house are very small! Use the landing predictor to predict the landing and if there is a high chance of landing in a lake then it would be worthwhile to waterproof payload. If it lands on a mountain, you'll just have to climb up and get it !!
[11:10] <fsphil> prediction is the key :) launching here has a great chance of landing in the atlantic ocean
[11:10] <fsphil> watching the predictor before launch is essential
[11:11] <cuddykid> yeah, hats off to those who created the predictor!
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[11:19] <Laurenceb> http://www.snopes.com/science/dhmo.asp
[11:19] <Laurenceb> oh dear
[11:20] <modles1> sounds like something from Brasseye
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[11:21] <modles1> Heavy Electricity
[11:22] <modles1> a phenomenon caused by "sodomized electrons"
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[11:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&hl=en-GB&v=IJCxJWwkHdQ
[11:35] <modles1> brilliant
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[11:36] <modles1> "hit by a tonne of invisible lead soup"
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[11:44] <NigelMoby> Meh
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[12:08] <cuddykid> fsphil, did you find that the alarm included in your payload helped in the recovery? Just contemplating whether it is worth it!
[12:08] <modles1> always use a buzzer!
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[12:08] <modles1> every project needs a buzzer
[12:09] <modles1> one of those cheap loc8tor things wouldnt be a bad idea either
[12:09] <cuddykid> ok, how did the light sensor work to activate alarm? were you relying on the payload to fall on a particular side so therefore the darkness would set it off?
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[12:10] <modles1> why not have it set off by the altitude?
[12:10] <BrainDamage> buzzer is not obnoxius enough
[12:11] <BrainDamage> 120dB siren is better
[12:12] <cuddykid> modles1, problem is if the gps fails then it wouldn't be set off
[12:12] <modles1> well i wouldnt rely on GPS for alt
[12:12] <DanielRichman> set it off based on time
[12:12] <modles1> yeah that would work also
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[12:13] <modles1> or just have it going all the time
[12:13] <cuddykid> thats a good idea (time)... I will try and add one in then
[12:13] <cuddykid> so it needs to be pretty loud then!
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[12:14] <elyptikus> hi
[12:14] <elyptikus> do you know if there is somebody in switzerland who has experience with weather ballons?
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[12:17] <modles1> ouch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS9O8xK07do
[12:22] <hibby> afternoon all
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[12:25] <fsphil> cuddykid, I didn't have an alarm
[12:25] <fsphil> you mean the project cirrus flight?
[12:26] <cuddykid> fsphil: oh right!.. yeah, the project cirrus
[12:26] <fsphil> they didn't include one in the end either, relied on the radio and an sms backup
[12:26] <fsphil> the sms failed :)
[12:26] <cuddykid> ahh right, thanks
[12:27] <fsphil> well there where two radios -- mine and their own
[12:27] <fsphil> mine died on landing
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[12:31] <elyptikus> is it important to use radios? or is an GPS Tracker (like Tk102) which send you an SMS enough?
[12:32] <modles1> holy crap the Tk102 is cheap
[12:32] <fsphil> it could be useful as a backup, if it survives the trip
[12:32] <fsphil> there's a good chance the gps won't work above a certain altitude, and some don't start working again once they drop below that
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[12:33] <modles1> no, many you need to reset
[12:33] <fsphil> and you won't know where it is during the flight as GSM coverage is rubbish above about 1km
[12:34] <elyptikus> but the radio stuff is very difficult...
[12:34] <modles1> but thats the fun!
[12:34] <fsphil> well it can be, it's a good learning experience too :)
[12:34] <modles1> whats the point of doing this if its easy!?
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[12:35] <fsphil> have you any experience in programming / hardware?
[12:35] <elyptikus> no nothing
[12:35] <elyptikus> is it hard to learn?
[12:35] <modles1> elyptikus: not as hard as you think
[12:35] <NigeyS> i just programmed my cat with the "shut up" command
[12:35] <fsphil> wow
[12:35] <NigeyS> amazing what a kick up the arse can do
[12:35] <modles1> elyptikus: whats your background?
[12:35] <fsphil> can that be ported to dog?
[12:36] <NigeyS> oh aye, just add in the extra force required for a bigger animal! :P
[12:36] <elyptikus> my background knowledge or what?
[12:36] <NigeyS> elyptikus, you are in sweden right ?
[12:36] <elyptikus> no switzerland
[12:36] <modles1> elyptikus: yeah, i mean do you have any programming knowledge
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[12:36] <NigeyS> ahh close enough
[12:36] Nick change: TangoAlpha_ -> TangoAlpha
[12:37] <elyptikus> no programming knowledge
[12:37] <fsphil> geography fail
[12:37] <fsphil> :p
[12:37] <NigeyS> lol phil, i failed all my gcse at 1 point
[12:37] <fsphil> elyptikus, do you know any amateur radio operators (or hams)?
[12:37] <cuddykid> I don't have much programming knowledge either elyptikus however there is a lot of code out there to help
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[12:38] <cuddykid> all I had was php knowledge which bears little resemblance to object orientated programming!
[12:38] <NigeyS> oo ftw!
[12:38] <fsphil> unless you did object orientated php
[12:38] <modles1> :)
[12:38] Action: NigeyS programs his next hab in pure java .. hrhr
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[12:38] <elyptikus> fsphil, no i know nothing about radio operators
[12:38] <fsphil> mono :p
[12:38] <cuddykid> nah, didn't do any object orientated php
[12:38] <NigeyS> nah phil i want colour photos :P
[12:39] <fsphil> php on an avr... mmmm
[12:39] <NigeyS> makes you wonder..hmm
[12:40] <NigeyS> eugh forgot to sugar my coffee :(
[12:40] <modles1> I use the zx devices http://www.zbasic.net/ , allow you to code in C, VB or Assembly, all in the same file if you want
[12:40] <fsphil> pizza. brb :)
[12:40] <fsphil> C ftw :)
[12:40] <NigeyS> pizza... bbq!
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[12:41] <modles1> fuck me the "10 commandments" is a looooooong film
[12:42] <cuddykid> lol
[12:43] <modles1> i think im going to bail on it
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[12:48] <modles1> how do you guys handle recovery from farm land, do you just go and get it?
[12:48] <NigeyS> where possible ask permision
[12:48] <modles1> sometimes its just so hard to know which bit of land is who's
[12:50] <NigeyS> aye it can be tricky, but generally theres a farmhouse in the area
[12:51] <modles1> whereabouts are you based
[12:51] <modles1> ?
[12:51] <NigeyS> cardiff
[12:51] <modles1> ah, a fair way.
[12:55] <NigeyS> sheepland
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> Sheep rustling is in fact way up from last year.
[12:57] <NigeyS> wasnt me i prefer goats
[12:57] <modles1> in norfolk we prefer our sisters
[12:58] <NigeyS> lol oh dear
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[13:01] <fsphil> early predictions for the weekend are not encouraging. I bet that's the week everyone's good to go
[13:01] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=709d6be04bf3715249c0e706d189f985ce62f1d8
[13:02] <Dan-K2VOL> good morning all
[13:02] <fsphil> morning dan!
[13:02] <fsphil> urg, that pizza was too big for lunch
[13:02] <Dan-K2VOL> how's it going phil
[13:03] <cuddykid> oh no, is that for sat fsphil?
[13:03] <fsphil> all very spiffy here - sunny day, going to do some range tests of the payload radio later
[13:03] <fsphil> cuddykid, that's sunday. saturday is on land, but only just
[13:03] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil I just realized that the habhub is using the GFS, that's pretty cool
[13:03] <cuddykid> ok, what about fri?
[13:03] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=955a1546ee238dfe6b6563b7b17579d22fe5164c
[13:03] <fsphil> ooh friday
[13:03] <fsphil> ah wait, I've zero chance of getting anyone on friday
[13:04] <NigeyS> morning Dan
[13:04] <cuddykid> I can track on fri probs, unless your talking of help setting up
[13:04] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, it's a fantastic system. I don't think I'd be able to launch without it
[13:04] <fsphil> cuddykid, yep. well, more the chasing it after landing
[13:04] <cuddykid> ahh, hmmm
[13:04] <fsphil> it's a 2-man job at least
[13:04] <NigeyS> Dan have you seen my ufo ?
[13:05] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah it was a little awkward to use the old balltrack ones that only used very short term forecasts for a very small area
[13:05] <Dan-K2VOL> lol no nigeys
[13:05] <NigeyS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gb4DpWQ2pc&feature=channel_video_title
[13:06] <modles1> looks good for a norfolk launch next weekend
[13:07] <fsphil> I might old off on the 869 beacon launch until the wind is going east again .. aim for Yorkshire :)
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[13:07] <NigeyS> lol phil you just wanna aim for the sheep
[13:07] <fsphil> evil sheep, they stole my last one I'm sure of it :)
[13:07] <NigeyS> lol they ate it!
[13:08] <hibby> someone with a morse ident shouting all over our aprs frequency :/
[13:08] <NigeyS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIm_6tGlhMg
[13:08] <fsphil> somewhere out there there's a sheep transmitting on 434.075mhz
[13:08] <NigeyS> have a dance and chill :D
[13:08] <NigeyS> pmsl
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[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL2> Nigeys had to put the links on my instapaper, can't watch youtube at work
[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL2> :-/
[13:10] <NigeyS> ahh no worries dude
[13:10] <NigeyS> no bank holiday there ?
[13:11] <Dan-K2VOL2> heh, if there was one, this little business wouldn't observe it!
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[13:11] <Dan-K2VOL2> but no, in the US for the easter weekend people get off the friday, if anything
[13:11] <Dan-K2VOL2> you off today?
[13:12] <NigeyS> ohh, yeah weve been off here since friday
[13:12] <Dan-K2VOL2> very nice
[13:12] <fsphil> here too
[13:12] <fsphil> also next Monday
[13:12] <NigeyS> and again for the wedding :/
[13:12] <Dan-K2VOL2> productive balloon days?
[13:12] <fsphil> for some reason
[13:12] <Dan-K2VOL2> heh
[13:12] <NigeyS> yush very, picochu is FINISHED!
[13:12] <Dan-K2VOL2> hooray
[13:12] <fsphil> Our office isn't closing for the wedding but I'm taking the day off anyway
[13:12] <fsphil> not for the wedding, I just like days off
[13:12] <Dan-K2VOL2> haha
[13:12] <Dan-K2VOL2> it's good cover
[13:13] <fsphil> indeed
[13:13] <fsphil> I'll be playing radio at home
[13:13] <NigeyS> btw u know the wedding day is shuttle launch day right ?
[13:13] <NigeyS> so screw the wedding, ill be watching AMS hitch a lift to orbit..lol
[13:13] <Dan-K2VOL2> ah, nice, that means you won't get to see the shuttle launch on mainstream media
[13:13] <Dan-K2VOL2> :={
[13:13] <fsphil> never see it on mainstream media anyway
[13:14] <fsphil> nasa tv online is where it's at
[13:14] <Dan-K2VOL2> but who watches the media anyway for real information, spacevidcast is much better
[13:14] <NigeyS> some dumb journo asked nasa if they would postpone the launch due t the wedding .. pffffffffff
[13:14] <Dan-K2VOL2> hahahaha
[13:14] <fsphil> nasa dude: "what wedding?"
[13:14] <NigeyS> like yeah ok, dream the f*ck on! maybe important here, but cosmically the shuttle rules! ;)
[13:14] <NigeyS> fsphil, lol !
[13:15] <NigeyS> dan .. http://twitpic.com/4p1pe0 .. 82grams
[13:15] <Dan-K2VOL2> there was a funny bit by comedian john oliver on his podcast the other day about how the royal family is just doing its duty
[13:15] <Dan-K2VOL2> every time the world looks like it's going to pieces they take up the torch and marry off to distract everyone from the depressing news
[13:16] <modles1> NigeyS: old faithful EM-406?
[13:16] <NigeyS> lol sounds about right
[13:16] <fsphil> hehe, http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/4/25/it-only-doesnt/
[13:16] <NigeyS> modles1, locosys ls23060
[13:16] <modles1> ah nice, is that the 10hz one?
[13:16] <NigeyS> yups
[13:16] <NigeyS> but its set to 1hz for the pico launch
[13:16] <NigeyS> as avr is running on int osc 8mhz
[13:17] <modles1> right
[13:17] <NigeyS> it wouldnt take the higher data rate to well
[13:17] <modles1> would be ok on hardware serial port
[13:18] <NigeyS> possibly, but its not been tested that much at 10hz, id rather not lose trackk of a pico payload, theyre kinda unpredictable as it is lol
[13:18] <Dan-K2VOL2> 80g, that's what our latest quadrifilar 2m helical antenna weighs, we should be getting the antenna analyzer today, and get to tune up a helix tonight!
[13:18] <modles1> i made an octocopter with full kalman filter running on a 8mhz avr
[13:18] <NigeyS> yey!
[13:18] <fsphil> sweeeeeeet
[13:18] <NigeyS> dan is dreaming of antennas .. lol
[13:18] <fsphil> more like a nightmare
[13:19] <NigeyS> is that a jpole or are you just happy to read my swr...lol
[13:21] <modles1> moses just killed all the pharaohs, thats not very f*cking christian!
[13:21] <NigeyS> pmsl
[13:23] <fsphil> ooh github's offline
[13:23] <NigeyS> :o ffs phil stop breaking the net!!!
[13:24] <NigeyS> actually its loading ok here
[13:24] <fsphil> right, mountain time
[13:25] <NigeyS> i must get out of the habit of creating blank readmes .. do b doo
[13:25] <Dan-K2VOL2> ha nigeys
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[13:25] <NigeyS> ;)
[13:25] <NigeyS> have fun phil!
[13:25] <Dan-K2VOL2> oh did github rely on amazon too?
[13:25] <NigeyS> and stay clear of the sheep aye!
[13:25] <fsphil> README: "No on second thoughts, don't bother"
[13:25] <NigeyS> hah hope not
[13:25] <NigeyS> lol
[13:26] <NigeyS> im gonna put "42" in every readme now, and see how many people click ;)
[13:26] <fsphil> oh it's back now
[13:27] <NigeyS> cleaner mustve finished hoovering and plugged it back in
[13:27] <hibby> jonsowman: ping
[13:27] <fsphil> that happened our place once.. cleaner knocked out half the wifi network
[13:27] <NigeyS> haha that's not good!
[13:27] <NigeyS> hibbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbby
[13:27] <NigeyS> \o/
[13:27] <fsphil> lol
[13:28] <NigeyS> nothing like blasting some 2004 trance to annoy the old dear next door
[13:28] <hibby> fsphil: our students union have that issue a lot... during their votes last year the system went down because the cleaners had to hoover the server room
[13:28] <fsphil> stand back hibby
[13:28] <hibby> NigeyS: had some coffee there?
[13:28] <NigeyS> only 1 ... lol
[13:28] <hibby> lol
[13:28] <NigeyS> its the music...it has this effect on me
[13:28] <hibby> im on redbull, coffee and the cake that the mrs and I made last night
[13:28] <fsphil> I wonder if the 2m yagi would fit in the clio
[13:28] <NigeyS> blu-tack it to the roof!
[13:28] <hibby> in the office typing up more handover documentation
[13:28] <fsphil> mmm
[13:28] <hibby> fsphil: our students had it poking out a window/sunroof, lol
[13:29] <fsphil> best way :)
[13:29] <NigeyS> oo tune! o/\o/\o/
[13:29] Action: fsphil is listening to the Tron Legacy sound track
[13:30] <NigeyS> Sensation 2004 Megamix
[13:30] <NigeyS> 30mins of ecstacy!
[13:30] <hibby> fsphil: head the remix album? It's almost as hot :)
[13:30] <hibby> some brilliant tracks
[13:30] <hibby> the original is so sweet, though
[13:30] <fsphil> I wasn't too fussed with it
[13:30] <hibby> NigeyS: I'm on Darren Styles currently... pop-hardcore for teh win
[13:30] <NigeyS> i quite like the gladiator sound track
[13:30] <NigeyS> hah styles is ok!
[13:31] <NigeyS> meh i miss my radio station :(
[13:31] <hibby> the students in the office are looking at me a bit oddly, but they tend to forget I'm really not older than them, I just had a break in my degree to do the cool things I've been doing
[13:31] <NigeyS> cool things ftw!
[13:33] <NigeyS> wow google tranceairwaves and you still get 33,000 results 6 years after i shut it down :| scary
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[13:35] <modles1> you should be monetizing that!
[13:36] <NigeyS> meh bit late now
[13:36] <NigeyS> that place was awsome, but a black hole for money
[13:36] <modles1> not if your still getting traffic
[13:36] <NigeyS> many happy memories :D
[13:44] <modles1> hmm any ideas when the 1000g balloons are going to be back in stock at Steves
[13:44] <hibby> should ask... is he in channel?
[13:46] <modles1> cant see him
[13:50] <modles1> hmmm i think i may have been a bit of a dick. I'm using switching voltage regulators, im thinking now, a linear regulator would be good as a little heater
[13:53] <hibby> heheh
[13:53] <hibby> one of our groups up here used handwarmers
[13:53] <hibby> one other group used a dedicated heater...
[13:53] <hibby> one didn't and the signal was everywhere
[13:54] <modles1> oh yeah those little chemical hand warmers would be good
[14:07] <eroomde> put a camera in
[14:07] <eroomde> they chuck out more heat than you need
[14:07] <modles1> what about a small fire?
[14:08] <eroomde> what oxygen would you use to sustain it?
[14:08] <modles1> a little bottle
[14:10] <modles1> is there a list anywhere of gps modules and their max heights?
[14:11] <eroomde> somwhere bit ou of date
[14:11] <eroomde> thers a decent list in my head tbh
[14:11] <modles1> :)
[14:12] <eroomde> summarised as 'use trimble or lassen'
[14:12] <eroomde> sorry, trimble or ublox
[14:13] <modles1> i have the ublox GS407 and the Meditek MK3329
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[14:13] <eroomde> ublox will work a treat to 50km if you put it in the right mode
[14:13] <eroomde> airborne x
[14:15] <modles1> ok ill have a play
[14:16] <modles1> i know its illegal, but out of interest how far do you reckon you could get a 900mhz video feed to go with the right directional antennae?
[14:16] <eroomde> ow much tx power?
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[14:19] <hibby> we had a ublox that didn't respond to the standard string...
[14:19] <hibby> and as such it gave up at 12.5km...
[14:19] <eroomde> odd
[14:19] <modles1> eroomde: 1000mw
[14:19] <hibby> was last weeks' launch... will get the details when I get round to it
[14:19] <W0OTM> Howdy
[14:19] <hibby> modles1: very, very far
[14:20] <eroomde> modles1: direct analogue modulation or are you using one of those big zigbee things?
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[14:20] <fsphil> hmpf, gps in hadie 3 has stopped working again
[14:20] <modles1> analogue modulation, this was just for video
[14:21] <modles1> although i guess if i was going to do something silly like that i would be better to use high powered zigbee and get images over serial
[14:21] <modles1> as the baud would be high
[14:21] <eroomde> h'ok. i guess hibby would know better than me
[14:22] <modles1> what kindof trouble would one find themself in if caught?
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[14:23] <eroomde> hmm, ofcom might eat your face
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[14:23] <modles1> what does that actually mean though, slap on the wrist, fine, sodomy ?
[14:24] <eroomde> not sure i'm afraid. but it's probably one of the bigger offenses
[14:24] <eroomde> very powerful, very large line of sight transmission on a commercial freq
[14:24] <eroomde> not spread spectrum or anything nice like that
[14:24] <eroomde> that said it would be high bandwidth
[14:27] <eroomde> hmm, is someone using the predictor?
[14:27] <modles1> i was earlier
[14:28] <eroomde> server bandwidth seems to be lower
[14:28] <eroomde> am channeling iplayer traffic through it as i'm abroad
[14:32] <modles1> what about the 150mhz band? MURS, anyone use that?
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[14:45] <jonsowman> hibby: you pinged?
[14:47] <eroomde> jonsowman: you pinged too
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[14:55] <cuddykid> modles1: I have also wondered about what would happen if you transmit in the "illegal" band... I would have thought it would be very difficult to trace who it is, especially as its flying at 30km up lol.. but I may be wrong!
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> Inmost cases, probably nothing.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> You need to be interfereing with someone important.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> And for them to notice.
[14:56] <cuddykid> yeah
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> And for them to report you to OFCOM, andfor OFCOM to have the resources to investigate
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[14:56] <modles1> who's gonna test that theory first?
[14:57] <BrainDamage> if you're gonna test that, at least use 1kW
[14:57] <hibby> jonsowman: you can remove fusen/strathab/skypod from the tracker as the projects under those names have officially come to a close.
[14:57] <jonsowman> hibby: if you're sure -- there's no harm in them remaining there
[14:58] <jonsowman> if I delete them, they're gone forever
[14:58] <jonsowman> unless you want me to email you the XMLs in case they are ever needed again?
[14:59] <hibby> aye, if you fire me the emails, i'll log them in the relevant documentation.
[14:59] <jonsowman> hibby: sure, give me a few mins, just sorting out something first
[15:00] <hibby> there'll be follow up projects next academic year, but they likely won't be under the same names.
[15:00] <jonsowman> okay
[15:00] <hibby> now that we have insurance :)
[15:00] <hibby> don't stress, there's no rush - just trying to keep the tracker clear
[15:03] <jonsowman> hibby: http://robertharrison.org/listen/hibby.tar.gz
[15:03] <cuddykid> lol BrainDamage
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[15:03] <Nigey> boo
[15:03] <cuddykid> boo
[15:03] <Nigey> jonsowman: about?
[15:03] <jonsowman> yup
[15:04] <Nigey> hwy jon, testing picochu but nothing getting to the tracker ?
[15:04] <jonsowman> paste me a couple of strings?
[15:04] <Nigey> sure 2 secs
[15:04] <Nigey> $$PICOCHU-1,56,15:03:50,51.49075,-3.16867,10,9,29*1A9F
[15:04] <Nigey> ach webchat grr
[15:05] <jonsowman> thanks
[15:05] <jonsowman> hold on
[15:05] <Nigey> $$PICOCHU-1,60,15:04:45,51.49076,-3.16866,10,9,30*F39B
[15:05] <Nigey> kk
[15:05] <hibby> jonsowman: cheers dude
[15:05] <jonsowman> what are the final three fields Nigey ?
[15:05] <jonsowman> hibby: can I delete that tarball bow?
[15:05] <jonsowman> *now
[15:06] <Nigey> alt, sats, tmp
[15:07] <jonsowman> Nigey: there you go :) working
[15:07] <Nigey> thanks jon ure a star :D
[15:07] <jonsowman> no probs
[15:08] <Nigey> right bbs taking it walkies i think
[15:08] <cuddykid> btw, what do the blue and green circles around payload position mean? I'm guessing some kind of txing range..
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[15:09] <jonsowman> cuddykid: 0 and 5 degree horizons respectively
[15:09] <cuddykid> ah, thanks
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[15:27] <cuddykid> has anyone managed an uplink successfully?
[15:27] <eroomde> yup
[15:27] <cuddykid> just been reading through the wiki and seems a great idea
[15:27] <jonsowman> yup
[15:27] <cuddykid> would be quite cool to "talk" to the balloon lol
[15:27] <modles1> cuddykid: incase you get lonely?
[15:28] <cuddykid> which projects?
[15:28] <cuddykid> modles1: yes lol
[15:28] <jonsowman> apex ii for a start
[15:28] <cuddykid> will have a look!
[15:28] <jonsowman> the CUSF flight computer called badgercub
[15:28] <eroomde> cuddykid cu spaceflight have uplinked on several flights
[15:28] <eroomde> and badger 2 jonsowman
[15:29] <jonsowman> indeed
[15:29] <cuddykid> cool!
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[15:30] <eroomde> cuddykid: we have used it for messing around and for mission critical stuff
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[15:31] <cuddykid> nice, would be quite useful to have an uplink, but I suppose most of the stuff and uplink would do could be programmed into avr
[15:32] <eroomde> yep, we were quite happy for several years without uplink
[15:32] <eroomde> still don't usually use it unless we specifically need it
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> The useful bit would be cutdown.
[15:32] <Dan-K2VOL> yes indeed
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> So you can cutdown at a convenient time based on live predicitons
[15:32] <jonsowman> and for resetting GPSes
[15:33] <jonsowman> that's been done a few times
[15:33] <cuddykid> yeah
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[15:34] <eroomde> we've not needed to reset a gps yet
[15:34] <eroomde> i wouldn't want to get into a situation where it needed a reset!
[15:35] <modles1> just reset it based on baro alt
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[15:35] <eroomde> why are we having to reset gpses peope!?
[15:35] <eroomde> this seems like madness
[15:36] <cuddykid> I don't have a gps reset programmed in
[15:36] <modles1> it seems some gps dont 'come online' again after going over operating ceiling
[15:36] <eroomde> oh. just don't use them.
[15:36] <eroomde> maybe a bit of a steve jobs answer
[15:36] <modles1> :)
[15:37] <eroomde> but c'mon, gps is how you get your hab back. spend money on one that works
[15:37] <cuddykid> lol, you've gotta love steves replies
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: But I found one that's $8, from china, and is only 3 grams!
[15:37] <modles1> how can you know if your gps works or not, whats the harm in a quick reset. imo
[15:37] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[15:38] <eroomde> modles1: you test it on a flight with one known to work
[15:38] <cuddykid> hopefully the lassen iq doesn't have any problems
[15:38] <eroomde> as we did back in the early days
[15:38] <eroomde> cuddykid: it doesn't. you'll be fine with it
[15:38] <cuddykid> great :D
[15:38] <hibby> aww, griffonbot's not about
[15:39] <jonsowman> oh, what
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[15:41] <hibby> I even worded my tweet properly!
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[15:42] Action: griffonbot is GriffonBot [http://github.com/ssb/griffonbot]
[15:42] Action: griffonbot is following: #arhab #ukhas #cusf #atlasballoon
[15:42] Action: griffonbot is tracking emails sent to ukhas@googlegroups.com
[15:42] <griffonbot> test
[15:42] <hibby> right, will try again to see if that works...
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[15:43] <griffonbot> @stacstation: New Post: http://goo.gl/RIVJS - report from a ground station point of view on the HAB projects at Strathclyde University. #arhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/stacstation/status/62542155591327744]
[15:43] <hibby> sorted
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[15:43] <jonsowman> :)
[15:43] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL: can you remind me of your tx chip?
[15:43] <eroomde> in the universal remote
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[16:12] <Zuph> eroomde: IIRC, it's a micrel chip, but I don't know which one.
[16:13] <eroomde> ta
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[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> eroomde the transmitter is a MicRF405
[16:19] <Dan-K2VOL> thx zuph
[16:20] <Dan-K2VOL> I really wish it would go down into the 2m band
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[16:36] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Why's that?
[16:36] <Dan-K2VOL> so it could be used for APRS
[16:37] <Dan-K2VOL> it does FSK, ASK, OOK
[16:42] <Zuph> ah
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[16:53] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: make your own mini transverter then
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> haha that negates the whole point, there's a car remote that uses an Atmega328 and Micrf405 that would be a very lightweight tracker
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> right out of the box
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> and I have no rf experience for such things
[17:02] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: How much power can those modules put out?
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> they run the legal limit for as 300-320 MHz and 433mhz intentional radiators
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> let me see what that is
[17:04] <Dan-K2VOL> something like 10mw I think
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[17:16] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Could your transmitter be rigged to do RTTY, or do you have to use the built in packet engine?
[17:21] <W0OTM> whats new
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[17:25] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm, I believe it could do rtty, I don't use the silly packet engine
[17:25] <Dan-K2VOL> I use the the datain pin to bit-bang the TX
[17:26] <Dan-K2VOL> on and off
[17:26] <Dan-K2VOL> in OOK mode
[17:29] <Dan-K2VOL> you set the data clock rate via SPI, then issue the command to turn on the TX and finals, and then the dataclk pin starts outputting a square wave at the rate you selected
[17:29] <Dan-K2VOL> just sync your outgoing data zuph to that clock
[17:30] <Dan-K2VOL> and it will FSK
[17:30] <Dan-K2VOL> zuph ^
[17:30] <cuddykid> created a nice polystyrene base for payload box with holes in for certain bits and pieces.. need to get out the hot glue now!
[17:32] <Dan-K2VOL> careful
[17:32] <Dan-K2VOL> hot glue may melt the poystyrene
[17:33] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Neat. Bring in some rejects for playing around with, if you can.
[17:33] <Dan-K2VOL> sure
[17:34] <cuddykid> Dan-K2VOL: yeah, will be extra careful!
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[17:49] <cuddykid> fsphil: hows the launch shaping up? Date atm?
[18:05] <fsphil> fuzzy
[18:06] <fsphil> hardware seems ready -- I didn't get up the mountain today to do the range test though
[18:10] <cuddykid> hmm, hopefully it will all come together!
[18:10] <fsphil> yea - just timing problems
[18:10] <fsphil> but it'll likely all come together at the last possible moment
[18:10] <fsphil> as usual
[18:12] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: With a 10mW RTTY transmitter in the ISM band, we can pop as many envelopes as we want. :)
[18:12] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Just need to borrow Tad's yagi :)
[18:15] NigeyS (~EcEnTiAl@cpc5-cdif13-2-0-cust232.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:15] <NigeyS> home sweet home
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[18:18] <modles1> just about to order a roast from http://www.roast-togo.com Genius!
[18:25] Nick change: Compilr^revision -> The-Compiler
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> Stupid sites that don't mention wherre they are.
[18:28] <fsphil> I was looking at a website for a hotel a few weeks back -- nowhere did it mention where it was
[18:28] <fsphil> or how to contact them
[18:28] <NigeyS> hmm why is nasa paying for spacex to design a launch abort system for dragon?!
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> It's funding that NASA had available.
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> AIUI it's not actually developing anything muich - it's using the retero rockets as escape rockets
[18:29] <NigeyS> thats stupid
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> OR maybe additional rockets too
[18:30] <NigeyS> like ford paying ferrari to design their engines
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> Space-X is more like nissan
[18:30] <NigeyS> :p
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> and NASAis more like ...
[18:30] <cuddykid> updated HABEs UKHAS page
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> DeLorian
[18:30] <modles1> ouch
[18:31] <NigeyS> On the face of it a Dragon landing on Mars would seem to have little point as the capsule would not be able to take off again.
[18:31] <NigeyS> kinda s small spanner in the works if the bloody thing cant take off !
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> Sure - it's hyperbole - soft-landing anywhere is a big plus though
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> As long as it's flattish.
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> There is a huge amount more flattish land inthe world than liong flat runways that can take high point-loads.
[18:32] <NigeyS> oh aye, not knocking the idea, but dont gob off "we're gonna use this to put a man on mars" if the bloody thing cant get them back
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> The exiisting hardware cannot do mars return.
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> However, I note that you'd likely find a non-zero number of people willing to go one-way.
[18:33] <NigeyS> exactly, so why all the hype atm, its getting annoying, dragon has 1 successful test flight and musk is yapping on about a mars landing .. idiot
[18:33] <Zuph> The existing hardware can't do Mars.
[18:33] <modles1> anyone watching Bang?
[18:33] <BrainDamage> but it might not be a good pubblicity
[18:34] <BrainDamage> one way trips that is
[18:34] <Hiena> NigeyS, thats how is the marketing working.
[18:34] <NigeyS> yeah marketing, which scares me
[18:34] <Zuph> All I've seen are Musk's "Mars in 10-20 years" claims. Where's this about Dragon+Mars?
[18:34] <NigeyS> when its astronauts lives at risk
[18:34] <Hiena> That was the same way, how the Corvus Racer was done, with a rookie company.
[18:35] <NigeyS> Zuph, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/21/musk_mars_dragon_claim/
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Why are astronauts lives any more valuable than miners?
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> Or lumberjacks?
[18:35] <NigeyS> their not, but this is such new technology, lets not rush it, lets get it tested and built first, market it later eh ?
[18:37] <Hiena> Also, if you remembers, the apollo missions was done with a space train method. Samme could be done for the mars expedition. Nobody said it's not possible to assembly a full, reuseable spaceship on orbit.
[18:37] <Zuph> The Register is massively bending the SpaceX press statement.
[18:37] <BrainDamage> public's perception of NASA is of a no-pratical-application entity with lots of money on their hands, every death they get is means a huge chance in budget cut
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> Fishing - 1% of fishermen will die in 10 years.
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> This is somewhat more than the astronaut corps as a whole
[18:38] <NigeyS> Zuph, as usual lol but the general jist is fairly accurate
[18:38] <Zuph> BrainDamage: Polls in the US show that the average American thinks 30% of the national budget goes to NASA
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> I looked at the stats the other day - it's something like 30% for defence.
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> (including a quarter of the national debt payments, and veterens benefits)
[18:39] <Zuph> NigeyS: No, it isn't. He's making a point that the technologies and knowledge being developed now have broader implications.
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> most fundamentally lowered launch costs are a paradigm shift.
[18:40] <NigeyS> i'd like to see how well spacex would do if nasa cut its funding, ya know, like 99.9% of normal business startups
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> NASA did not fund SpaceX initially.
[18:41] <Zuph> SpaceX's progress would be significantly impeded.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> It was 100M of private capital. It then attracted launch buisness.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> It is getting NASA contracts as it's lots cheaper than the alternatives.
[18:41] <Hiena> NigeyS, they will start looking for an another venture capitalist. Maybe some chinese speaking one.
[18:41] <Zuph> But they wouldn't be shut down. They are not pork, like most others.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> NASA in a very real sense is DeLorian.
[18:41] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: US budget is fucked, US citizenry's perception of the budget is fucked.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> They want to make really shiny pretty perfect stuff.
[18:42] <modles1> DeLorean, perfect???
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> modles1: The aim is perfection.
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> They come somewhat short.
[18:42] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, isnt that mainly down to their accountability to congress / tax payer though ?
[18:42] <modles1> Do Nasa do bike Cocaine deals too?
[18:42] <NigeyS> it has to be perfect bcecause they get $XXXbn or whatever ?
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: INASA got poisoned by money.
[18:42] <modles1> bike = big
[18:42] <Hiena> NigeyS, ROFL...
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: 'Waste anything but time' is fatal to a beurocracy.
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> It is now largely a welfare organisation, not a space one.
[18:43] <NigeyS> hm i guess
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> The contracts for stuff are typically - or have been in the past - not written 'do X'.
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> They are written as 'do X, using technologies Y Z Q P F' - where those technologies coincidentally happen to be the core specialities of the two or three big aerospace firms.
[18:44] <NigeyS> i can't argue there, there is a kinda well obvious pattern that backs that up
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> The fundamental proiblems is that these aerospace firms have no incentive to increase value.
[18:44] <Hiena> Well, still got the Shepard words:"The fact that every part of this ship was built by the low bidder."
[18:45] <NigeyS> lol Hiena
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> They get more or less the same funding if they launch 10 craft for $100m or one for $1B
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> Hence they go for the designs that lead to #1B
[18:45] <NigeyS> true, and if ya getting paid that kinda money why make it cheaper right, even if you could
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> NASAs last attempt at lowering launchcosts had three seperateuntried technologies on.
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> You can't claim that was a serious attempt at lowering launch costs.
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> (linear aerospike, conformal tanks, metal TPS)
[18:46] <Hiena> SpeedEvil, the problem is, how they research the way of the cost reduction.
[18:47] <Hiena> You can't reduce the cost, if you invest huge amount money for the research.
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> Hiena: Well - I disagree somewhat withthat.
[18:47] <Hiena> You should do it on the cheapest way.
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> The problem is pork.
[18:47] <modles1> wow they are doing new build DeLoreans
[18:47] <modles1> hmmm, kinda tempted
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> And vested interests leading to silly design requirements.
[18:49] <Hiena> Also, the cheapest way not always the sophisticated one. If you want to make something cheap, you should make something a nail simple.
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> It's not always the simplest one.
[18:50] <modles1> http://www.delorean.com/newbuild.asp
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> For example - if you can get nice automated friction stir welded Al-Li tanks - they outperform steel tanks by such a large margin that it's worth spending on them.
[18:50] <NigeyS> see thats what is worrying me, spacex are saving huge sums of money, so how are they doing it, are they not reasearching as well as they should be, testing as well .. materials not as good as they should be? where are these savings being made?!
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> By not having fucking insane procurement models.
[18:52] <modles1> procurement is the downfall of most things
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> If you start out with the premise that everything must be custom, you fail.
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes it just makes sense to go out and buy stainless steel screws, and inspect them carefully.
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> Not get custom ones.
[18:52] <NigeyS> well in a way it is all custom, you cant exactly go pick up parts for a rocket from a local hardware store ..
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> Sure you can.
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> Some parts.
[18:53] <Hiena> NigeyS, they are doing it a simple way. They making small, cheap, and working engines from a low cost materials. Not a huge, state of the art engines, from expensive materials.
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> And the question is - if it works - is light enough, why shouldn't you use a $100 fitting that is available at your local hardware store - rather than a custom design at $10K
[18:54] <Hiena> Same way as the soviets made they M3 interceptor. No titanium, just the good old stainless steel.
[18:54] <NigeyS> and at some point, that small cheap engine WILL fail and people WILL die, as a direct result of "we can do it cheaper"
[18:54] <Hiena> NigeyS, if a cheap engine fail, there will be another 8 one to fail.
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> It's really not that sinmple.
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> Cheaper is not inherently less good.
[18:55] <modles1> well most of the cost is in development and testing, not actual manufacturer, so therefore cheaper does mean less safe?
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[18:56] <modles1> er -> ing
[18:56] <NigeyS> time will tell, i just have a bad feeling on the lets do it cheaper model, if cheaper means less thorough .. count me out of riding a spacex rocket anytime soon
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> If you're wanting to spec a pump, for example.
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> If you buy it off the shelf, the manufacturer already ate the costs.
[18:56] <SpeedEvil> And you can buy a hundred and test them to exhaustion for a tiny fraction of what a new pump would cost to design.
[18:58] <Hiena> The test and development cost always divides up between the mass product numbers. If you makes a few engine, it will be pricey due the additional development and test costs.
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[18:59] <SpeedEvil> SpaceX are starting to churn out quite large numbers of their main engine.
[18:59] <Hiena> Same goes for the size. If you builds something small in a huge number, the test cost will be smaller.
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> Simply as it's one common unit that goes across their product range.
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> This, combined with the fact that it can be ground tested a lot - greatly boosts reliability.
[19:00] <Hiena> One engine fails in the test? No problem, there will be another dozen for test.
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> I note that they had an on-pad abort where the engines lit, and then they decided not to go, and shut down.
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> And then went again the same day after fixing the problem.
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> Without swapping out the engines.
[19:02] <Hiena> How about test those dozen engine at the same time? No problem. Maybe the could start mass product dynamometers and test fixtures.
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> If something serious happens after shuttles SRBs light - it's an 'everyone dies' moment.
[19:04] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: I was watching that one. The mission control audio loop was funny. The commentors had no idea what to do :)
[19:06] <NigeyS> oh the "obviously a major malfunction" ... well duh yes, your shuttle just exploded dude
[19:08] <Hiena> Well, if you mess with rockets there is always the chance to ends up charred ass.
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[19:10] <fsphil> Ahh Windows.. it's cute that they keep trying
[19:11] <NigeyS> hey phil
[19:11] <Hiena> Talking about charred, i smells like a burned metal again.
[19:11] <fsphil> hiya NigeyS
[19:12] Action: fsphil has been hunting the source of the HF noise
[19:12] <fsphil> whatever it is, it's very nearby. I had the radio on in the car on the way home from the forest park, and it only appeared as I pulled up outside the house
[19:13] <NigeyS> hmm odd
[19:13] <NigeyS> oh btw your ft-790 made a new friend today
[19:13] <fsphil> I know it's not from my house as I've turned everything off and its still there
[19:13] <fsphil> oooh
[19:13] <fsphil> you tempting squirrels with weird radio noises?
[19:13] <NigeyS> lol noo, 2 secs ..
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[19:14] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/4ph2sf
[19:15] <fsphil> Kitten XP
[19:16] <NigeyS> lol!
[19:16] <fsphil> tis very cute
[19:16] <NigeyS> my cat would love it ..
[19:16] <NigeyS> for lunch!
[19:16] <GW8RAK> Nice pussy!
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[19:16] <NigeyS> was waiting for that GW8RAK ! lol
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[19:17] <GW8RAK> So I couldn't resist it. It's the 8 year old trying to get out.
[19:17] <Hiena> Ehem, so that wasn't a line hum, rather carrier purr.
[19:17] Action: fsphil resisted :p
[19:17] <NigeyS> right lets take bets on wether i can desolder this dip socket from an old board .. hmmm
[19:17] <GW8RAK> That was going to be my job tonight, but decided that I may as well order some more. It's less hassle
[19:18] <fsphil> I do that GW8RAK lol
[19:18] <NigeyS> im thinking about ordering some, just not sure if their going to get here before friday
[19:18] <fsphil> I've got bits of stripboard with just a single IC socket on my desk
[19:18] <BrainDamage> ic sockets? seach on ebay
[19:18] <BrainDamage> and you can get 80+ for few $
[19:19] <BrainDamage> free shipping
[19:19] <NigeyS> yeah found a robotics site that does 10 for like 94p
[19:19] <NigeyS> yet maplin charge £1.21 each !
[19:20] <GW8RAK> That's a good idea. I always forget about ebay for components.
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[19:20] <GW8RAK> Are you hoping to launch next weekend fsphil?
[19:21] <BrainDamage> I'm more shocked by breakout boards for accelerometers/gyro/other mems, I'm seriously considering switching to SMD just to get a dramatic cost reduction for parts
[19:21] <fsphil> I'd love to, but again relying on others. I seem to have picked the worse possible time of the year to launch
[19:22] <fsphil> this notam ends soon, but another begins almost straight after it if the CAA don't delay it too much
[19:22] <fsphil> they've said they're very busy atm
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[19:23] <modles1> the Hum?
[19:24] <GW8RAK> Well I'm getting really frustrated with this "must get insurance for an official air cadet launch" so I'm pressing ahead with a personal launch. I've been talking about it long enough, let's get something flying.
[19:24] <GW8RAK> Need to complete the flight computer to my preferred design and then I'll get some He and a balloon.
[19:25] <fsphil> sweet
[19:26] <GW8RAK> Cutting pcb tonight and hope to etch it tomorrow
[19:28] <fsphil> ah you're doing it properly
[19:28] <modles1> :)
[19:29] <GW8RAK> Not really, verboard for the simple stuff and pcb for the non standard connectors on the GPS board.
[19:29] <GW8RAK> Non-standard meaning 2mm pin spacing rather than verboards 2.5mm spacing
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[19:49] <SAIDias> why does everyone use 10 or 11 as their APRS ID for ballooning? XXXXX-11
[19:49] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[19:50] <W0OTM> everyone seems to choose 10/11 http://www.arhab.org/ARHABlaunchannouncements.html
[19:51] <NigeyS> heh weird eh
[19:51] <NigeyS> love the new trailer btw W0OTM
[19:51] <NigeyS> that's some serious bit of kit
[19:51] <W0OTM> NigeyS: thanks
[19:52] <W0OTM> NigeyS: going to make my launchs alot easier
[19:52] <NigeyS> oh aye definately
[19:54] <fsphil> can you travel to the UK? :)
[19:54] <W0OTM> anything for you fsphil
[19:54] <fsphil> lol
[19:54] <jonsowman> he'll just try and steal it :P
[19:56] <W0OTM> Got the launch flyer done :) http://www.ihabproject.com/iHAB-4/LaunchFlyer.pdf
[19:56] <W0OTM> it was cheaper to do my own printing
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[20:04] <eroomde> W0OTM: i think i missed the link to your new trailor
[20:04] <W0OTM> eroomde: ok
[20:09] <NigeyS> hmm anyone know if the bitbang bootloader burning methods works with a mega2560 as the host ?
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[20:30] <W0OTM> eroomde: iHAB Communications Trailer video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n51vKNDXwik #arhab hamradio
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[20:40] <eroomde> W0OTM: that's very, very nice
[20:40] <W0OTM> well thanks
[20:42] <W0OTM> I think it will prove to be really nice for launches
[20:42] <W0OTM> my old trailer was even smaller
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[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:46] <W0OTM> sup Lunar_Lander
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> still getting crazy predictions
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> due west and south
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> into the Ruhr area
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> which is the most densiely populated area of germany
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[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> wb fsphil
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[21:00] <Zuph> Alright, more quad helix experiments tonight!
[21:00] <Zuph> Dan overnighted an analyzer :)
[21:00] <fsphil> ooh it's arrived then?
[21:00] <NigeyS> Zuph, you almost sound excited..lol
[21:00] <fsphil> I bet all your antennas turn out to be perfect :)
[21:01] <Zuph> hah
[21:01] <Zuph> I hope not!
[21:01] <NigeyS> lol
[21:01] <Zuph> I'm excited to get this thing in the can so I can move on to other exciting projects :)
[21:01] <Zuph> Like this Cortex-M3.
[21:01] <Dan-K2VOL> yes me too
[21:02] <Dan-K2VOL> I want to build a bluetooth enabled soul crushing machine
[21:02] <Zuph> Finally getting it to compile, finally getting it to upload, but the uploaded code doesn't *appear* to do antyhing.
[21:02] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: I can put a bluetooth radio on speedball-1 if you'd like.
[21:02] <Zuph> Save a lot of time.
[21:02] <Dan-K2VOL> haha that would
[21:03] <Zuph> I can have it ready by the time you get here :)
[21:03] <Dan-K2VOL> ha and it's been tested already
[21:04] <Dan-K2VOL> ok on the way, I"ve got freshly recharged carrion for the machine
[21:04] <Dan-K2VOL> will swing by home to pick up the analyzer if UPS does what is says
[21:04] <Dan-K2VOL> :-)
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[21:08] <W0OTM> sup DanielRichman
[21:08] <W0OTM> oops
[21:08] <W0OTM> oh Dan left
[21:08] <W0OTM> LMAO
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello Zuph NigeyS fsphil :)
[21:09] <Zuph> Evening, Lunar_Lander
[21:09] <Zuph> How're things?
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> quite OK, thanks
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> despite the crazy predictions that go west and south :P
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> landing in the Ruhr area!!!
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> (most densely populated area of germany)
[21:10] <Zuph> Uh oh!
[21:10] <Zuph> Well, at least it will get found!
[21:10] <Zuph> :)
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> :P yea
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> fortunately I don't have the stuff ready yet
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> would be disappointing to see all those bad landings
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. having a NO-GO every day
[21:11] <Zuph> Don't we know it!
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> also
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> I need to call up DFS 8 days before launch
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> so i need to know from the predictor reliably if today+ 8 days is good
[21:16] <Laurenceb> when visiting webchat.freenode.net, NEVER miss out the R - no seriously
[21:16] <Laurenceb> i just did, had to kill firefox - loads of javascript exploits
[21:16] <Laurenceb> and other nasty
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> you mean "feenode"?
[21:17] <Laurenceb> yeah but dont try it
[21:18] <Laurenceb> guess this is why you should always use noscript
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:20] <Laurenceb> luckly as im not running windows or ie such things are fairly sandboxed
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[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> not good
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[21:26] <NigeyS> http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/ibuttons/1921Kit.cfm
[21:26] <NigeyS> interesting little things
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> Some of the morehandy 1-wire parts are going away
[21:27] <NigeyS> $60 for a starter kit, might grab 1
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> like the 1-wire network coupler
[21:27] <NigeyS> :o
[21:27] <SpeedEvil> http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/2909
[21:29] <NigeyS> oo thats dam handy
[21:30] <NigeyS> wonder why theyre axeing it :(
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> Low demand?
[21:32] <NigeyS> meh sux :(
[21:32] <modles1> 1-wire is dying out
[21:32] <NigeyS> dam, that thermochron is only good to 0c
[21:34] <NigeyS> oh they do pcb ibutton mounts and ports.. thats gonna be handy
[21:36] <Laurenceb> shame its being phased out
[21:36] <Laurenceb> guess it never caught on - you cant get micros iwth hardware 1-wire for e.g.
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[21:39] <SpeedEvil> I want to biuy 1-wire IDs
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> That is - without hardware
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[21:44] <Laurenceb> why would i get 'all points y value undefined!' from gnuplot?
[21:45] <SpeedEvil> you've specified a column with invlaid or missing axes
[21:45] <Laurenceb> oh its a autoscale issue
[22:01] <modles1> ewwgh, work tomorrow
[22:04] <fsphil> pays the bills :)
[22:04] <modles1> so does paid holiday ;)
[22:07] <modles1> hmm why have i never heard of these guys before proto-pic.co.uk
[22:07] <modles1> seem to have a better range of sparkfun products than cool-components.co.uk
[22:07] <fsphil> crap, he's found out -- quick, close the website!
[22:08] <modles1> I mean i normally just order direct from SF as intl postage is so cheap
[22:08] <fsphil> yea I usually do too
[22:08] <modles1> ill have to compare these prices, i imagine it would still be cheaper to order direct
[22:08] <fsphil> though for small orders it's handy to get local
[22:09] <modles1> got to build a bee hive monitor next week, missing a few bits. Ill try them out
[22:10] <fsphil> sweet
[22:10] <modles1> 'ba boom tish'
[22:10] <fsphil> tis a hobby
[22:22] <NigeyS> do b doo #
[22:25] <Zuph> Need to get around to building a bee hive...
[22:25] <modles1> are you covered in bees currently?
[22:26] <modles1> you need to give them somewhere to live
[22:26] <modles1> I cant believe what a booming hobby it is
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[22:27] <Zuph> Heh, Not currently covered in bees, thankfully.
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 26 2011