highaltitude.log.20110422

[00:05] <jcoxon> okay
[00:05] <jcoxon> i've got a transmitter on 433.890
[00:05] <jcoxon> with a single thread dipole
[00:05] <jcoxon> and a 85mAh battery
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[00:06] <jcoxon> which weighs 3.4g
[00:06] <Lunar_Lander> any idea if a Langmuir probe on the balloon would be interesting?
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> A ?
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langmuir_probe
[00:14] <jcoxon> okay
[00:15] <jcoxon> femtoatlas is finished
[00:16] <Zuph> jcoxon: pics?
[00:17] <jcoxon> uploading now
[00:20] <jcoxon> Zuph, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5642082766/in/photostream
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> Oops! You don't have permission to view this photo.
[00:21] <jcoxon> try now
[00:24] <Zuph> Need something in there for scale :-p
[00:24] <Zuph> How big is it?
[00:24] <jcoxon> it weighs 3.5g
[00:26] <jcoxon> so it changes freq depending on environmental light
[00:27] <Zuph> ah ha
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[00:28] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5642099846/in/photostream
[00:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
[00:32] <jcoxon> now the question is - should i launch it
[00:32] <Zuph> That's really tiny
[00:33] <jcoxon> i'm especially pleased with my antenna
[00:33] <Zuph> What's the method of tracking? :)
[00:33] <jcoxon> directional
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> The antenna is a work of art.
[00:36] <jcoxon> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=2d71105edb0eb894bbcf2a6824277e7831be7353
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/eb-3531-gps-engine-board-module-with-sirf-star-iii-chipset-80046
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how bad a simple dipole GPS ant would be
[00:40] <jcoxon> i think i'll save this for tomorrow morning
[00:44] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - all the above seem to only go down to 4800, which is a pity
[00:44] <jcoxon> yrah
[00:44] <jcoxon> it would be awesome if they went down to 300
[00:44] <jcoxon> as the tracker accepts $GPGGA strings
[00:47] <SpeedEvil> hmm - it'll go down to 1200
[00:48] <SpeedEvil> It'd be interesting to try 600,300,...
[00:50] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale/wholesale-et%25252d314-gps-module.html hmm
[00:53] <Lunar_Lander> gn8
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[00:56] <jcoxon> pah i think i'll just launch it
[01:04] <Zuph> jcoxon: Letting go of it now?
[01:04] <jcoxon> its gone...
[01:04] <Zuph> hah
[01:05] <Zuph> Anyone listening?
[01:05] <jcoxon> now a bit worried it'll cause an accident
[01:05] <jcoxon> i am
[01:05] <Zuph> haha
[01:05] <Zuph> Is your name on it?
[01:05] <jcoxon> an email address
[01:05] <jcoxon> foundballoon@hushmail.com
[01:06] <jcoxon> can still hear it
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[01:09] <jcoxon> the tone tells me that its dark outside
[01:09] <jcoxon> thats proper science
[01:10] <jcoxon> remote sensing
[01:10] <Zuph> jcoxon: Is the transmitter temperature compensated?
[01:10] <jcoxon> its not
[01:10] <jcoxon> so thats more science
[01:10] <SpeedEvil> Is there moon?
[01:10] <jcoxon> yes, but its an OOK transmitter
[01:11] <SpeedEvil> ah
[01:11] <jcoxon> for your viewing pleasure
[01:11] <jcoxon> http://m6jcx.no-ip.org/dl-fldigi-XMLRPC/index.html
[01:11] <Zuph> Early ballon transmitters measured altitude by temperature drift :)
[01:11] <jcoxon> this of course could be stuck in a tree
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[01:13] <jcoxon> freq is going up
[01:14] <fsphil> you did what? lol
[01:14] <fsphil> I'm just home, saw the twitter messages
[01:14] <jcoxon> i launched femtoatlas
[01:15] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5642082766/in/photostream
[01:15] <jcoxon> on a single small foil balloon
[01:15] <jcoxon> 3.5g payload
[01:16] <fsphil> not on spacenear.us?
[01:16] <jcoxon> gosh no
[01:16] <jcoxon> 3.5g!
[01:17] <jcoxon> its a rubbish transmitter with a photoresitor on the input
[01:17] <jcoxon> so will tells us when it gets light :-)
[01:17] <fsphil> aaah
[01:17] <fsphil> makes sense
[01:18] <jcoxon> my big worry is that the cool air will reduce the postive lift sufficently for it to come down
[01:19] <fsphil> could be sitting on someones tv aerial
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[01:19] <jcoxon> with the occasional signal fading i think its still moving
[01:22] <jcoxon> it probably wasn't the best idea to do this :-p
[01:23] <fsphil> ideas at 2am rarely are :)
[01:29] <fsphil> I wonder if you'd hear the 50hz hum of the street lights if it got close enough to one
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[01:45] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/423559152-3-7V-8mAh-043228-Ultra-thin-battery-bank-card-batteries-and-smart-card-batteries-wholesalers.html intreresting
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[02:31] <jcoxon> signals gone
[02:40] <jcoxon> i don't think it flew very far
[02:40] <jcoxon> perhaps 1km at most
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[07:17] <SamSilver> bbl
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[07:32] <Upu> morning
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[08:07] <NigeyS> morning all
[08:23] <Upu> morning NigeyS
[08:23] <NigeyS> hey Upu
[08:23] Action: NigeyS is on babysitting duty from 10 :(
[08:23] <Upu> hehe fun :)
[08:24] <NigeyS> it's not to bad, ive got the 10 yr old today, give him a soldering iron some leds and a stripboard and he's quite happy..lol
[08:24] <Upu> haha
[08:25] <NigeyS> he soldered half that dil socket for picohu-1 quite well, i was impressed!
[08:26] <NigeyS> you off work today ?
[08:27] <Upu> yes but doing some work from home
[08:28] <NigeyS> :o that's not allowed, you must REST on good friday.. or some rubbish like that
[08:29] <Upu> haha right
[08:30] <NigeyS> heh got to love the tech news, Apple sues samsung .. a day later Samsung sues Apple .. *sigh
[08:30] <fsphil> that who-sues-who diagram is getting pretty complicated now
[08:31] <Upu> <- Don't care camp
[08:31] <NigeyS> its getting bloody stupid, and half of it is down to software patents that shouldnt have been awarded in the bloody first place! grr
[08:31] <Upu> Apple can go take a running jump in my opinion
[08:32] <NigeyS> oh im no fan of apple, i can assure you
[08:32] <NigeyS> morning btw fsphil
[08:32] <fsphil> morning!
[08:32] <NigeyS> i found out last night just how hot a vreg can get lol
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[08:33] <NigeyS> :o its James
[08:33] <fsphil> oochy hot :)
[08:33] <NigeyS> good morning Mr Coxon!
[08:33] <jcoxon> not good morning :-(
[08:33] <jcoxon> i should be asleep
[08:33] <Upu> how come ?
[08:33] <Upu> ah
[08:33] <NigeyS> fsphil, it's gonna scar put it that way lol
[08:33] <Upu> its 9.30 on a beautiful day
[08:33] <jcoxon> its too hot, there is a fun fair 100m from my room
[08:34] <NigeyS> ahh you're on night shift transition right ?
[08:34] <fsphil> eel
[08:34] <fsphil> eek even
[08:34] <jcoxon> NigeyS, trid too
[08:34] <jcoxon> tried*
[08:34] <jcoxon> i'm a morning person
[08:34] <jcoxon> so am wide awake
[08:34] <fsphil> I wonder if your balloon landed there
[08:34] <jcoxon> hehe went the other way
[08:34] <NigeyS> yup snap, no fun james :(
[08:36] <NigeyS> i saw something about a balloon james, was only glancing at the screen, what did you send up ?
[08:36] <jcoxon> hehe i sent up femtoatlas
[08:36] <jcoxon> but i think it came down after 1 minute
[08:36] <jcoxon> as it cooled down too much
[08:36] <NigeyS> lol, short duration of sorts then
[08:37] <NigeyS> oh were your green balloons for pico qualatex ?
[08:37] <fsphil> possibly a record of some sort :)
[08:37] <jcoxon> fsphil, who knows
[08:37] <jcoxon> NigeyS, nah a tiny balloon
[08:37] <jcoxon> 18"
[08:38] <NigeyS> wow they can only carry 3 grams.. how the heck did it lift off at all :|
[08:38] <jcoxon> a 3.5g payload
[08:38] <NigeyS> coin cell ?
[08:38] <jcoxon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5642099846/in/photostream
[08:39] <jcoxon> i should have been patient and launch this morning
[08:39] <NigeyS> haha thst awsome.. oh .. you want to see lightweight and compact .. check this out ...
[08:42] <NigeyS> http://www.geocities.co.jp/arduino_diecimila/obaka/project-2/index_en.html
[08:42] <NigeyS> you have to try 1 ! lol
[08:43] <jcoxon> thats clever
[08:43] <jcoxon> its heavy though
[08:43] <jcoxon> so what happened to the flight yesterday?
[08:43] <NigeyS> yeah its compact but an avr chip and the rest will make up a good few grams
[08:43] <Upu> GPS issues
[08:43] <jcoxon> recovered?
[08:44] <Upu> didn't seem to work above 12k and didn't like fast ascents
[08:44] <Upu> then the radio stopped transmitting data
[08:44] <jcoxon> weird
[08:44] <NigeyS> think it was recovered
[08:44] <Upu> carrier was there for the full flight
[08:44] <jcoxon> oh
[08:44] <NigeyS> they had a gsm position
[08:44] <Upu> just no data
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[08:45] <NigeyS> anyone ever used that bitbang mode for bootloader burning ?
[08:46] <NigeyS> morning laurenceb
[08:52] <fsphil> oh arr, speedball still having antenna problems
[08:52] <fsphil> it's got to be something other than the antenna
[08:52] <fsphil> they can't all be bad
[08:53] <NigeyS> im wondering if that sat modem is not to blame
[08:53] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/48225359@N03/5642711764/
[08:53] <fsphil> now that's a heck of a UFO
[08:53] <NigeyS> not exactly small is it lol
[08:54] <NigeyS> "UFO Spotted over LVL1 Kentucky" .. hmmmmmmm
[08:54] <NigeyS> reminds me of a strider from HL2 :|
[08:56] <fsphil> hehe: http://www.flickr.com/photos/48225359@N03/5603712115/in/photostream/
[08:56] <fsphil> that's the proper way to hack
[08:56] <fsphil> ooh they've got whitestar tee shirts
[08:57] <NigeyS> lol brad looks very at home there
[08:57] <NigeyS> they have a t-shirt shop i think.. possibly link on the main site
[08:57] <fsphil> missed that
[08:57] <fsphil> aah
[08:58] <fsphil> "winter 2010-2011" oops
[08:58] <NigeyS> oopsie
[08:59] <fsphil> I wonder if they should attach their j-pole to a general receiver, see if there's anything transmitting around the satellite frequencies
[09:00] <NigeyS> might be worth a try
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[09:03] <fsphil> cause so far it only seems to fail when it's on the payload
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[09:16] <fsphil> where would we be without duct tape: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5642986472/
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[09:19] <jcoxon> fsphil, looks very smart
[09:20] <fsphil> I'm pleased with it so far. I'll do some range tests this weekend (no launch again unfortunately)
[09:20] <jcoxon> :-(
[09:20] <fsphil> I've got some interest from the emails I sent to the local radio clubs
[09:20] <jcoxon> that is good news
[09:20] <fsphil> a few people wanting to attend a launch, and some who want to track
[09:20] <jcoxon> when is your next window?
[09:20] <MrCraig> did I miss an image link for your payload fsphil?
[09:20] <fsphil> MrCraig, the new antenna: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5642986472/
[09:21] <fsphil> this one lasts a month, and I'd already requested another just after
[09:21] <MrCraig> cool, looks well made
[09:21] <fsphil> so I'm good with the caa for a while
[09:22] <fsphil> although he's saying they're very busy at the moment - there might be a gap
[09:22] <jcoxon> yeah i suspect we are approaching that time
[09:23] <fsphil> they seem to be busier over the winter
[09:23] <fsphil> er, summer
[09:24] <fsphil> I suppose more events going on
[09:24] <jcoxon> yes air shows etc
[09:24] <Upu> thats my idea too fsphil
[09:24] <Upu> still concerned about the general spikeyness of it
[09:25] <fsphil> the straw is a bit spiky yea
[09:25] <fsphil> I'll maybe put something on the top
[09:26] <jcoxon> its a shame there isn't a launch today
[09:26] <Upu> indeed
[09:26] <jcoxon> we must have a number of payloads nearly ready
[09:26] <fsphil> all good to go
[09:27] <fsphil> I think next time I'll make the launch site in cookstown!
[09:27] <Upu> Mines ready
[09:27] <Upu> just waiting on some better parachutes
[09:35] <jcoxon> wow there are loads of super cheap android tablets out now
[09:41] <fsphil> there are
[09:41] <fsphil> quite a few cheap android phones too
[09:42] Action: jcoxon has just watched tron
[09:42] <jcoxon> i want a wireless terminal
[09:42] <jcoxon> old school style
[09:42] <fsphil> the original?
[09:42] <jcoxon> no new one
[09:42] <jcoxon> with a touch screen keyboard
[09:43] <fsphil> must get the dvd - missed it in the cinema
[09:43] <jcoxon> i just rented it off itunes
[09:43] <jcoxon> as tehy haven't got hte HD version on itunes yet
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[09:52] <jcoxon> so i'm thinking - these cheap tablets - it must be possible to compile custom kernels for them
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[09:58] <fsphil> indeed, people have been doing that with routers for a while. not sure how difficult it is though
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[10:03] <jcoxon> fsphil, i'm tempted by this: http://www.maplin.co.uk/7inch-android-2.1-scroll-tablet-506956
[10:05] <fsphil> yikes hdmi out
[10:05] <jcoxon> the reason i'm tempted is that its seems to have a bit of a community
[10:05] <DanielRichman> http://www.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101/
[10:05] <jcoxon> they've they've rooted it and done a tear down
[10:07] <fsphil> android is everywhere
[10:08] <fsphil> I wonder if that scroll tablet has enough room for a proper linux distro
[10:09] <jcoxon> exactly!
[10:10] <fsphil> 2GB build-in
[10:10] <fsphil> built*
[10:10] <fsphil> would be a tight fit
[10:10] <jcoxon> the issue is that android doesn't use X
[10:10] <jcoxon> and so would the graphics drivers be supported
[10:11] <fsphil> true -- but doesn't X have a server for the framebuffer?
[10:11] <MrCraig> epad transformer - Gadge! I want!
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[10:24] <MNSP> morning all :)
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[10:32] <fsphil> morning MNSP_
[10:33] <MNSP_> hiya Phil
[10:33] <MNSP_> anything up this weekend?
[10:33] <fsphil> pondering heading to the beech :)
[10:34] <fsphil> beach*
[10:35] <MNSP_> oooh nice, are you near one? cos I think everyone is thinking about the beach while weather is good
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[10:37] <MrCraig> hey mnsp, sorry I missed your question yesterday - the answer is "maplin MRW-210 40cm length 70cm (430-440) high gain TX with SMA connector"
[10:38] <fsphil> I'm about 40 miles from the coast in a few directions here
[10:41] <MrCraig> bbs
[10:41] <MNSP_> Morning Craig
[10:41] <MrCraig> morning :)
[10:41] <MNSP_> thanks for answer
[10:41] <MrCraig> no probs :) Just hopping off for a half hour or so - be back soon :)
[10:42] <MNSP_> Well then Phil, looks like you're heading for traffic which ever direction you go in ;)
[10:42] <MNSP_> cool
[10:42] <fsphil> lol yea, just realised there'll be an easter rush to the coast
[10:43] <MNSP_> meh, you'll be fine, shouldn't think it'd be worse than rush hour
[10:43] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[11:02] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[11:06] <MNSP_> hey matt
[11:11] <NigeyS> eugh this is tediously slow going
[11:13] <mattltm> Hey MNSP_, NigeyS
[11:13] <NigeyS> hey matt
[11:13] <MNSP_> whats up nigeys
[11:14] <NigeyS> babysitting and trying to work on picochu
[11:17] <MNSP_> lol
[11:17] <mattltm> Sounds tough!
[11:17] <NigeyS> he solders better than me :|
[11:18] <MNSP_> LOL
[11:18] <MNSP_> how old?
[11:19] <NigeyS> 10
[11:19] <NigeyS> or 9
[11:19] <NigeyS> 1 of em :|
[11:20] <NigeyS> almost done the rx and tx lines so i can test picochu
[11:20] <BrainDamage> NigeyS: if you don't like soldering, you could grab an holt plate + solder paste
[11:20] <BrainDamage> it will save you a lot of component soldering
[11:20] <NigeyS> BrainDamage, very tempting, its not that i dont like it so much, more a case of bad nerves, dont have a very steady hand
[11:23] <mattltm> NigeyS: Any luck with that yagi yet?
[11:24] <NigeyS> its a deaf as a deaf person
[11:25] <NigeyS> as*
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[11:26] <mattltm> lol.
[11:26] <mattltm> No good with fsphil radio?
[11:28] <MNSP_> right time to do the off, have a cracking weekend :)
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[11:29] <cuddykid> Hi all, been ages since I've been on! My project has stalled a bit as the CAA guy is struggling to get permission for my area due to high amounts of air traffic above :( !
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> :/
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> You could always drive a little
[11:32] <cuddykid> I may do, I still need to get balloon and parachute yet. Main tracking system is almost completed. Haven't got the money yet (~ £200) to finish get the last few bits and pieces.. but hopefully soon I will
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[11:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> Where are you?
[11:33] <cuddykid> worcester :)
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> Can't you just drive to one of the sites with approval?
[11:34] <NigeyS> mattltm, nope, think its def buggered, be nice to get a swr on there
[11:34] <cuddykid> I probably will do.. is there a list of sites around anywhere? Cambridge is a fair way out the way for me, so it would be a last resort!
[11:36] <mattltm> NigeyS: I'll bring some testing kit, a few good radios and another 70cm beam down with me. Then we can test it propper :)
[11:37] <mattltm> Anyone subscribe to MAKE?
[11:40] <NigeyS> schweet n1 dude
[11:40] <NigeyS> bbs gonna get picochu finished
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[11:46] <fsphil> at least it looks like your 790 is fine
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[11:47] <fsphil> I subscribed to make for the first few issues, but it got pretty boring after a while
[11:48] <mattltm> fsphil: Im thinking about getting a digital only sub.
[11:49] <Randomskk> same as fsphil, I got a one year subscription, renewed it once, but didn't since
[11:49] <mattltm> So general opinion is "don't bother"?
[11:50] <Randomskk> a lot of people do subscribe and love it
[11:51] <Randomskk> it had some good stuff in it, but I guess like it was rarely projects that I hadn't seen before online, just with better walkthroughs on making them
[11:51] <Randomskk> but I rarely want to remake something from a magazine, so
[11:51] <Lunar_Lander> oh hello
[11:51] <Lunar_Lander> and hello cuddykid
[11:51] <Lunar_Lander> the rate of new people in here seems to be very high at the moment
[11:51] <fsphil> hiya Lunar_Lander
[11:51] <Lunar_Lander> and hello mattltm NigeyS SpeedEvil1 Randomskk fsphil
[11:52] <mattltm> Im sure most have seen this before but its new to me...
[11:52] <mattltm> http://android.hibal.org/
[11:52] <fsphil> I seen the one launch, didn't know they where doing 7
[11:53] <fsphil> looks really heavy
[11:53] <Lunar_Lander> and it is like it is cursed
[11:54] <Lunar_Lander> all the predictions for the next few days and different times of the day go due west from me
[11:54] <Lunar_Lander> one almost hit a motorway junction
[11:54] <Lunar_Lander> another one would land on Enschede airport
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[11:54] <Lunar_Lander> and for some reason that airport is pixellated on google maps
[11:55] <Lunar_Lander> ah maybe because it is partly military
[11:55] <Lunar_Lander> no, military part was closed December 7, 2007
[11:56] <Lunar_Lander> anyway it looks like it is no-fly week here in germany
[11:57] <fsphil> how much time ahead to you have to notify the aviation people there?
[11:58] <Lunar_Lander> 8 days
[11:58] <fsphil> that's not too bad
[11:59] <fsphil> you're launching soon then?
[12:00] <Lunar_Lander> no, not by far
[12:00] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[12:01] <Lunar_Lander> I'm only making predictions to get a nice picture for my blog where I want to explain the predictor
[12:01] <Lunar_Lander> I was only shocked by the landing points
[12:11] <Lunar_Lander> did you get crazy landing points in predictions too?
[12:13] <fsphil> lol ... "This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds" .. er.. what?
[12:14] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, predictions for this weekend here are actually quite nice :)
[12:14] <cuddykid> hi Lunar_Lander
[12:14] <fsphil> but I'm waiting until I can gather up some people to attend the launch
[12:14] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil yeah I heard that people in the UK can't watch Channel 4 online
[12:14] <fsphil> and go looking for it
[12:14] <Lunar_Lander> it's crazy
[12:15] <fsphil> maybe it's a different Channel 4
[12:15] <Lunar_Lander> no, as I saw it, it's the Channel 4 in the UK
[12:15] <NigeyS> fsphil, i think ive found a problem, and its a puzzler :|
[12:15] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid you are new? that is good
[12:15] <Lunar_Lander> and hi NigeyS
[12:15] <Randomskk> fsphil: it's because you have to go to the 4od website
[12:15] <fsphil> aaah
[12:15] <Randomskk> they have the license for UK viewers
[12:15] <NigeyS> hey lunar
[12:16] <fsphil> so can't just watch it on youtube. meh
[12:16] <Lunar_Lander> btw I think the pictures on google maps are too old
[12:16] <Lunar_Lander> thus the airport is still censored
[12:16] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, the satellite photo of my town is about 15 years old
[12:16] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[12:16] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: Been building my 1st payload for around 2 years now lol... haven't been on for ages (since last summer).. my payload is almost finished but have got to get balloon, parachute, helium etc before launch
[12:17] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[12:17] <cuddykid> a quick question, is it hard to fill the balloon with helium due to its size etc? I have visions of doing all the hard work with payload etc and on day of launch it going horribly wrong!
[12:19] <fsphil> always a worry that :)
[12:19] <fsphil> it seems easiest to get a nice clean ground sheet, and lay it out on that
[12:19] <fsphil> it will soon have enough lift to keep itself in the air though
[12:20] <cuddykid> ok, thanks fsphil, is it a many man job?!
[12:20] <fsphil> ideally yea
[12:20] <cuddykid> cool!
[12:21] <fsphil> always keep the balloon tied to something :)
[12:21] <cuddykid> yeah, that might be a problem otherwise!! haha
[12:24] <NigeyS> not a small pet . like a hamster though ;)
[12:24] <cuddykid> lol
[12:27] <fsphil> indeed, something heavy. like a horse
[12:30] <NigeyS> or a kangaroo
[12:30] <NigeyS> ;)
[12:31] <fsphil> From what I've seen I don't think they have any in Australia :)
[12:34] <Darkside> what
[12:34] <Darkside> we have kangaroos :P
[12:35] <Darkside> we just haven't shown any on video yet
[12:35] <Darkside> just horses
[12:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, painted on those yellow warning signs
[12:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[12:35] <Darkside> i saw a bandicoot about 20 min ago
[12:35] <Darkside> i'm in tasmania atm
[12:35] <Darkside> at my mums property
[12:35] <fsphil> sweet
[12:36] <fsphil> isn't it cold there this time of year?
[12:36] <Darkside> yup
[12:36] <Darkside> about 8.2 deg atm
[12:36] <fsphil> that's not too bad actually
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[13:02] <Lunar_Lander> cuddykid what will your payload do?
[13:03] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. what will it measure and so on
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[13:23] <cuddykid> Lunar_Lander: Keeping it simple to start with lol.. just got lassen iq, arduino & ntx2 for tracking, plus an sms backup tracker, then a canon A560 for taking snaps!
[13:24] <cuddykid> If successful will add more on the next flight (like temp, pressure, geiger counter etc)
[13:26] <fsphil> hehe, love this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> nice cuddykid
[13:28] <Lunar_Lander> good idea to start easy :)
[13:28] <cuddykid> yeah :P!
[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> btw, I once asked this to a chemist: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2010-09/1284475714.Ch.q.html
[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> got this response: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2010-09/1284475714.Ch.r.html
[13:30] <Lunar_Lander> could this be the base of a HAB experiment?
[13:30] <Lunar_Lander> I'll brb
[13:31] <fsphil> that is a good question
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[13:39] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander, speaking of landing on roads: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=fc6e32b13e7b0ebf1397ad49366bbac9d334655e
[13:43] <fsphil> not that the predictor would ever be that precies
[13:43] <fsphil> precise*
[13:44] <Randomskk> it /could/ be, it's just unlikely :P
[13:44] <fsphil> this is an oldish balloon so will probably pop long before 33k
[13:45] <Dan-K2VOL2> how did jcoxon's balloon do last night?
[13:45] <fsphil> he didn't think it got very far, about 1km
[13:45] <fsphil> no word on recovery yet :)
[13:46] <fsphil> it may have been the quickest build-to-flight time ever :)
[13:46] <Dan-K2VOL2> oh was he the only one tracking?
[13:46] <fsphil> it didn't transmit any information
[13:46] <Dan-K2VOL2> haha that's definitely cool
[13:46] <fsphil> well, it had an optosensor wired to the transmitter
[13:47] <fsphil> I wonder how high it got
[13:47] <Lunar_Lander> back
[13:48] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah it hit the road exactly
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[13:57] <Lunar_Lander> any idea on the acidity?
[13:58] <fsphil> afraid I didn't pay any attention in Chemistry at school
[13:58] <fsphil> was more into physics
[14:00] <cuddykid> today or tomorrow would be fantastic days to launch... shame I don't have balloon and permission! argh!
[14:00] <fsphil> I have both of those, but not enough people
[14:01] <fsphil> actually the prediction for sunday is very close to the coast
[14:01] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=5d9e4a766b525a0b7499204dae484154405c1f04
[14:02] <cuddykid> oh, what a shame, would have been great weather too!
[14:02] <fsphil> really hazy here - I don't think the pictures would have much detail
[14:02] <fsphil> I can't see more than about 5km away
[14:03] <fsphil> but a great day for a drive
[14:03] <cuddykid> I wonder what it would be like up there in space! ... hmmm!
[14:03] <fsphil> always sunny up there :)
[14:04] <fsphil> horizon pics are cool, but I'd like to get some detail of the ground too
[14:05] <mattltm> Mwhhhhhh!! http://www.mattltm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/IMAG0145.jpg
[14:05] <Randomskk> oh nice
[14:05] <Randomskk> rotates?
[14:06] <fsphil> speaking of high altitude
[14:06] <fsphil> tis a monster!
[14:06] <mattltm> Randomskk: I have a rotator but not installed yer. The mast can be turned manualy very easy though.
[14:06] <Randomskk> sweet
[14:06] <Randomskk> looks good
[14:06] <mattltm> 21 element 70cm beam ready to go on the top :)
[14:07] <mattltm> Since im gona use the 70sm for HAB tracking, you think vertical pol is better?
[14:07] <fsphil> absolutely
[14:07] <Randomskk> yea. most HABs use vertical
[14:07] <Randomskk> can't think of any that didn't actually
[14:07] <mattltm> Hum, It would have to be offset from the mast...
[14:07] <fsphil> horizontal wouldn't work too well in a spinning payload
[14:08] <mattltm> Maybe I need 2 to ballance it out :)
[14:08] <fsphil> a little pre-amp up there and I bet you'd have no problem decoding the 300 baud image data
[14:08] <mattltm> Phased 21 element beams.
[14:08] <Laurenceb> http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton
[14:08] <fsphil> or that
[14:08] <Laurenceb> lool
[14:08] <mattltm> lol.
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[14:09] <Laurenceb> "Others have attributed it to the possibility of him having Asperger's syndrome. Or maybe he was just a jerk. "
[14:10] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[14:10] <Lunar_Lander> I was told that he beat up Hooke because he didn't want to accept that Hooke was first in discovering something
[14:12] <SpeedEvil1> I love the 'went round disreputable pubs' bit.
[14:12] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> (to catch coiners)
[14:15] <mattltm> Typical. I should be able to claim my 2E0 but the ofcom online licensing system is ofline :(
[14:16] <Randomskk> :(
[14:17] <Randomskk> Laurenceb: have you read the baroque cycle by neal stephenson?
[14:17] <Randomskk> it has a lot of newton in it, mostly being a mad jerk
[14:17] <Laurenceb> nope
[14:17] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:17] <Randomskk> it's a kind of historical fiction set in newton's era and covers the whole coinage thing too
[14:17] <Randomskk> it was great
[14:18] <Randomskk> three fairly chunky books though
[14:18] <Randomskk> cambridge gets a lot of mention :D
[14:27] Action: Laurenceb finally managed to order the mems parts for the dactyl board
[14:27] <Laurenceb> should be able to test it next week
[14:28] <LazyLeopard> mattltm: Shucks :(
[14:31] <TangoAlpha> woohoo, i have a GPRS capable flight computer :-)
[14:32] <TangoAlpha> it can report it's own position to spacenear.us over HTTP
[14:32] <mattltm> LazyLeopard: Yup :(
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[14:35] Nick change: The-Compiler -> Compilr^revision
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander> OK, be back later :)!
[14:35] <Lunar_Lander> cu
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[14:37] <W0OTM> habhub predict is stuck at 10%
[14:37] <W0OTM> grrrr
[14:38] <NigeyS> wooooooohoooooooooo
[14:38] <mattltm> Got it working NigeyS?
[14:39] <NigeyS> "9e.... Starting PicoChu-1 MK2 Test Code ....
[14:39] <NigeyS> ave that!
[14:40] <fsphil> TangoAlpha, epic!
[14:40] <fsphil> NigeyS, epic!
[14:40] <NigeyS> phil you are a genius
[14:41] <NigeyS> bang on 425 shift to
[14:41] <fsphil> well it was suppose to be 350, but hey ;-)
[14:41] <NigeyS> wonder if gps works..lol
[14:41] <NigeyS> ill settle with 425, its pretty much spot on
[14:41] <fsphil> of *course* it works, gps always works
[14:42] <NigeyS> this 1 does, even works inside, its the locosys module
[14:42] <fsphil> dare I say it but this fsa03 has been behaving itself since I reheated some of the solder on pins
[14:42] <NigeyS> :o
[14:42] <fsphil> the pins
[14:43] <NigeyS> you know its gonna break noe dnt u ? :p
[14:43] <NigeyS> now*
[14:43] <fsphil> it's switched off ... it can't hear me ...
[14:43] <Dan-K2VOL2> hi nigey, fsphil
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[14:43] <fsphil> g'day dan!
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[14:44] <NigeyS> hey dan
[14:44] <NigeyS> mattltm, ill peg the payload on the washing line, reckon you could pick it up? :P
[14:44] <Dan-K2VOL2> we ran the JPole antenna last night on the payload, with everything hanging in free space between trees
[14:45] <NigeyS> i saw dan, not a successful test ?
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL2> and it did extremely poorly
[14:45] <fsphil> Someone from PHB standing nearby with a jamming device?
[14:45] <fsphil> PBH even
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL2> it would only get about 25 seconds of usable signal out of every 10 minutes
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL2> heh
[14:45] <Dan-K2VOL2> and that's not long enough to send even the shortest data
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL2> I just went ahead and ordered an MFJ-259B antenna analyzer overnight shipping
[14:46] <fsphil> I was thinking earlier, have you tried hooking up a scanner to the antenna, in place with everything else switched on, to see if anything is interfering on the downlink frequencies?
[14:46] <Dan-K2VOL2> that's a good idea fsphil, I don't think we have. one thing I suspect is that the paylaod is generating RFI
[14:46] <fsphil> yea
[14:47] <Dan-K2VOL2> we do have one we can hook up
[14:47] <Dan-K2VOL2> and we're going to tune up the quadrifilar helical
[14:51] <NigeyS> could it be the sat modem itself causing problems dan ?
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[15:03] <TangoAlpha> FYI for any spacenear.us admins, i get a memory error response every so often
[15:03] <TangoAlpha> <b>Fatal error</b>: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 35 bytes) in <b>/home/space/public_html/tracker/predict.php</b> on line <b>183</b><br />
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[15:05] <Randomskk> blimey
[15:07] <MrCraig> it's only a guess, but I think there's a leak in that.
[15:08] <TangoAlpha> yep, that would be a good guess
[15:08] <TangoAlpha> i don't think it's anything to do with the data i'm sending as most of the time it's fine
[15:09] <DanielRichman> 183 is a preg_match_all on the output of the predictor binary (lots of text). SO that might be causing it to use lots of ram; or it might be something earlier that's actually causing the error.
[15:10] <TangoAlpha> what's it predicting at the point? i'm only sending position data
[15:10] <DanielRichman> spacenear.us will automatically predict where the balloon will land from its current position
[15:10] <Dan-K2VOL2> nigeyS good question, but we've ruled that out by periodically running the onboard modem through the car-mounted 5/8ths wave whip
[15:11] <NigeyS> ahh
[15:13] <Dan-K2VOL2> did you see the pic of the payload up in the air last night?
[15:14] <Dan-K2VOL2> it's actually very hard to get a good pic out in that parking lot, there's so much city around that the buildings all around make a very distracting background. I have to lay on the ground to take pictures of the free space tests to get a clean background :-P
[15:15] <Randomskk> get a nice wide lens
[15:15] <Randomskk> the city becomes tastefully blurred
[15:16] <Randomskk> by wide I mean fast. huh.
[15:16] <Dan-K2VOL2> ha
[15:17] <Dan-K2VOL2> good plan! Heh the problem is that I can never fit in picture taking and publishing unless it can be as spontaneously as yanking out my phone and opening the twitter app to take a pic!
[15:18] <Dan-K2VOL2> hmm, perhaps I could just get some smoke grenades to toss into the background, those are spontaneous
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[15:36] <NigeyS> $$PICOCHU-1,3,15:35:24,51.48680,-3.14731,17,0*97D5
[15:36] <NigeyS> $$PICOCHU-1,4,15:35:37,51.48678,-3.14732,18,0*A69D
[15:36] <NigeyS> w00t w00t
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL2> haha cute nigeyS
[15:36] <Dan-K2VOL2> PICOCHU
[15:36] <NigeyS> hmm getting inteference off the gps led
[15:37] <Dan-K2VOL2> LED?
[15:37] <fsphil> more likely the gps itself
[15:37] <NigeyS> nah its the LED
[15:37] <Dan-K2VOL2> oh optical interference? :-P
[15:37] <NigeyS> every second it flashes, corresponds with a dip in the signal
[15:38] <Dan-K2VOL2> what is the LED indicating?
[15:38] <NigeyS> lock status
[15:38] <NigeyS> no way to turn it off iirc
[15:38] <Dan-K2VOL2> it could be causing a dip in the power supplly
[15:38] <fsphil> take it out
[15:38] <Dan-K2VOL2> yep
[15:38] <Dan-K2VOL2> use the soldering iron to push it sideways
[15:38] <fsphil> but I still don't think it's the led :)
[15:38] <NigeyS> i cant its a smd attatched to the module itself, its super tiny
[15:39] <fsphil> whatever action the led is indicating, is likely what's causing it
[15:39] <NigeyS> hmmz
[15:39] <Dan-K2VOL2> you can easily remove an SMD led
[15:39] <Dan-K2VOL2> much easier than a throughhole
[15:40] <NigeyS> ill give it a go
[15:40] <Dan-K2VOL2> just put solder on your iron, and lay the iron tip side flat on the board so it touches the SIDE of the LED so both metal ends are touching the iron
[15:40] <Dan-K2VOL2> and it will slide off sideways
[15:41] <Dan-K2VOL2> or just use your wire cutters to destroy it! SNAP!
[15:41] <Dan-K2VOL2> though you'll want to clean up the shards
[15:43] <NigeyS> lol oki
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[15:45] <fsphil> ooh small thunderstorm forming not far from you NigeyS
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[15:50] <NigeyS> yey cant wait
[15:50] <fsphil> not sure what direction it's going
[15:52] <NigeyS> fkin gps :@
[15:52] <NigeyS> its not writing the settings to flash
[15:52] <NigeyS> so everytime i power it off and on i got to goto serial console and reset nmea to 9600
[15:58] <fsphil> does it have a battery?
[15:59] <NigeyS> yeah, i have the codes here but they dont seem to work
[16:00] <NigeyS> $PMTK590,bla bla
[16:11] <NigeyS> weird, program for windows to change the settings keeps crashing @ 9600 1hz
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[17:17] <NigeyS> meh antenna 2grams to heavy :(
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[17:30] <fsphil> can't save 2 grams elsewhere?
[17:35] <cuddykid> finished the last bit of soldering for flight computer, will test in a bit!
[17:35] <natrium42> shorten the neck of the balloon
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> Us
[17:36] <SpeedEvil> Use sodium for solder.
[17:36] <natrium42> :P
[17:37] <NigeyS> lol
[17:38] <NigeyS> i can get away with taking an extra inch off the shagi
[17:38] <NigeyS> phil do i need to solder the antenna braid to both gnd pins on the ntx2 ?
[17:38] <fsphil> don't have to, but better to
[17:38] <fsphil> you probably don't want to loose too much of the antenna
[17:39] <NigeyS> ive kept the radials all 16.4
[17:39] <fsphil> have you stripped the plastic?
[17:39] <fsphil> length of the radials doesn't matter as much as the vertical bit
[17:39] <NigeyS> ill measure it now
[17:39] <natrium42> that's what she said
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[17:40] <NigeyS> lmao
[17:40] <NigeyS> fsphil, 10cm of actual antenna cable
[17:41] <fsphil> oops lol
[17:41] <NigeyS> plus the 16.4cm for the center radial mind
[17:41] <jcoxon> morning
[17:42] <NigeyS> hey james
[17:42] <fsphil> aah
[17:42] <fsphil> thinking you could take the plastic of that, save a few grams
[17:42] <NigeyS> oo true
[17:43] <Zuph> jcoxon: Anyone find your balloon yet? :-p
[17:43] <NigeyS> i reckon it went to the fair! lol
[17:44] <NigeyS> prolly stuck up the big wheel..haha
[17:44] <jcoxon> Zuph, nope
[17:44] <jcoxon> if it landed somewhere last night it would have taken off at dawn
[17:44] <jcoxon> it would have had good lift considering the temperature today
[17:45] <NigeyS> http://twitpic.com/4o2zgg
[17:45] <NigeyS> looks like a stick man!
[17:48] <fsphil> bbl
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[17:52] <Dan-K2VOL2> james can you tell if it didn't pop?
[17:53] <Dan-K2VOL2> Zuph
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[17:54] <Dan-K2VOL2> I just thought of another way to telemeter diff pressures of Superpressure envelopes
[17:54] <W0OTM> New trailer: yfrog.com/h8kf1rbj
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[17:58] <cuddykid> looking fantastic W0OTM
[17:59] <natrium42> that's pretty hard core :D
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[18:08] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL2: What's that?
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[18:13] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[18:17] <Dan-K2VOL2> sry, got called away here Zuph, back
[18:18] <Dan-K2VOL2> to put a wireless absolute pressure sensor (barometric altimeter) inside the balloon, and compare it to one outside the balloon. calibrate them against eachother first of course
[18:20] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL2: Might work. The one's we're using are laser trimmed from the factory, repeatable results within ~1%, IIRC
[18:20] <Dan-K2VOL2> eliminates all the plumbing
[18:20] <Dan-K2VOL2> nice
[18:21] <Zuph> Yeah, that's nice.
[18:22] <Zuph> Not sure if any absolute sensors will tell us much beyond "successful pressurization" or "pop".
[18:22] <Zuph> Well, it should if we've got the right filtering. They're supposed to be accurate enough to measure the pressure difference in a 9cm column of air.
[18:23] <Zuph> Still need to fly one, though.
[18:23] <Dan-K2VOL2> and we were calculating a 1-2 psi of superpressure as typical right?
[18:24] <Zuph> As the maximum possible superpressure for our targets.
[18:24] <Dan-K2VOL2> so the readings should be very significantly different
[18:24] <Zuph> 6000 Pa or so.
[18:24] <Dan-K2VOL2> well, actually, heh the one inside will stop climbing the minute it starts superpressurizing
[18:25] <Dan-K2VOL2> and the outside one will keep climbing until float
[18:25] <Dan-K2VOL2> that will make a pretty set of charts
[18:25] <Zuph> Superpressurization should happen pretty quickly. Ideas on getting good data quick?
[18:26] <Dan-K2VOL2> we need to try to slow the transition to pressurized down I think
[18:27] <Dan-K2VOL2> quick? we could just try this idea with xBees and coin cells and a master xBee with yagi on the ground
[18:27] <Zuph> There's an idea.
[18:27] <Dan-K2VOL2> or the rfbee, but the xbee takes the rf packetization out of the problem
[18:28] <Dan-K2VOL2> we have bill's massive 900mhz yagi
[18:28] <Dan-K2VOL2> jcoxon you around?
[18:28] <Zuph> Or just do PWM on a carl-like transmitter :-p greater the duty cycle, greater the differential.
[18:28] <Dan-K2VOL2> you could do the same with two of your modules flown last night
[18:28] <Dan-K2VOL2> yep
[18:29] <Dan-K2VOL2> but it would be a bit harder to quantify
[18:29] <Dan-K2VOL2> and chart
[18:29] <Zuph> But much simpler to implement
[18:29] <Dan-K2VOL2> but it would audibly tell you how it transitioned to float
[18:31] <Zuph> All things considered, I think we should just make an ultra-light clone of the APRSDuino for envelope testing.
[18:31] <Dan-K2VOL2> the problem with APRS is the cost of the damn GPS and Radiometrics radio
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[18:31] <Dan-K2VOL2> carl was complaining about that yesterday
[18:32] <Dan-K2VOL2> they're both like $30
[18:32] <Zuph> I can't think of any cheap way around that if we want to recover the payload.
[18:35] <Zuph> Unless you're suddenly a fan of fox hunting :-p
[18:38] <BrainDamage> add a small amount of an HE to the payload and let it get rid of itself
[18:39] <Dan-K2VOL2> zuph good point, but for testing super pressure envelopes perhaps we just make throwaway pressure temeltry sensors, that's all we really care about
[18:39] <Dan-K2VOL2> for testing
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[18:45] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL2: Alright, can Carl's RTTY transmitter do 2M or 70CM?
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[18:47] <Dan-K2VOL2> hmm
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[18:47] <Dan-K2VOL2> he uses radiometrix for the 2m version
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[18:49] <cuddykid> right, got good old rtty going through the air finally! However, my gps (lassen iq) seems to be a bit patchy (i.e. signal keeps dropping) anyone know how to improve this? Is the thicker side of gps antenna meant to face upwards?!
[18:49] <Dan-K2VOL2> but the UKHASers here have some nifty light RTTY 70cm boards!
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[18:57] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL2: Those crappy $6 radio modules to OOK on 7cm. IIRC, any byte stream can become crappy PWM :-p
[18:57] <Dan-K2VOL2> true
[18:57] <Dan-K2VOL2> and how will we decode PWM
[18:58] <Dan-K2VOL2> using those really increases the difficulty in receiving and documenting the data
[19:00] <Zuph> It simplifies receiving, brings the cost of our "throwaway" transmitters down $30.
[19:00] <Zuph> It does increase difficulty of decoding.
[19:01] <BrainDamage> how much a balloon launch costs on average atm?
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL2> for what kind of balloon BrainDamage?
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL2> our trans-atlantic balloon thus far is running about $5000 by my rough guess
[19:02] <BrainDamage> let's say, cheapest system you can rig
[19:02] <Dan-K2VOL2> to do what
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL2> do you want to get it back?
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL2> do you want to take pics
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL2> do you want to go high?
[19:03] <BrainDamage> ignore extra electronics
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL2> do you want to go far?
[19:03] <BrainDamage> just go high up
[19:03] <Dan-K2VOL2> extra electronics? so you want to know how expensive a balloon + helium is?
[19:04] <Zuph> Has anyone used those crappy $6 OOK modules for HAB?
[19:04] <BrainDamage> yeah
[19:04] <BrainDamage> and eventual chute
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL2> NigeyS how expensive are the modules you guys use for 433 over there
[19:04] <BrainDamage> electronics, I can rig myself
[19:04] <Dan-K2VOL2> what country are you in braindamage
[19:05] <BrainDamage> italy
[19:05] <Dan-K2VOL2> how much weight
[19:05] <BrainDamage> mmm, let's say, 100g?
[19:05] <NigeyS> errr
[19:05] <NigeyS> 14quid
[19:06] <cuddykid> guys I'm getting around 700 shift (so using 850 shift to decode fine in fldigi) is this a problem as it gets colder/high altitude?
[19:06] <BrainDamage> Quid has various meanings: Pound sterling, British slang for £1 in monetary currency Euro (¬), in Irish slang
[19:07] <BrainDamage> which one?
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL2> I'm not sure where you'd get a balloon from in italy, I know rocketboy in the UK sells them, for us here in the US it'd be $20 for a 200g balloon, and $20 for helium, and about $20 for a chute, though you don't need one for 100g payload
[19:07] <NigeyS> you want to try and get it lower cuddykid
[19:07] <NigeyS> 350 or 425 is ideal
[19:07] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL2
[19:07] <Dan-K2VOL2> hey nigey
[19:08] <cuddykid> oh no :( I've soldered everything together! hmm!
[19:08] <NigeyS> meet picochu-1 mk2 .. http://twitpic.com/4o3xp8
[19:08] <cuddykid> NigeyS - that is much neater than mine!
[19:08] <NigeyS> haha mark 1 was alot worse i assure you
[19:09] <NigeyS> now i have to secure the gps with glue, finish the code, and trim the stripboard to stay under 90 grams .. fun fun
[19:10] <BrainDamage> Dan-K2VOL2: thanks for the heads up
[19:10] <Dan-K2VOL2> hehe cool nigeyS, may want to glue the chip in too
[19:10] <NigeyS> avr should be ok, its fairly tight, but the gps module is a bit looser, its only going to be a floater so it shouldnt be bumped around as much
[19:11] <Dan-K2VOL2> gotcha
[19:11] <Dan-K2VOL2> what envelope?
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[19:11] <NigeyS> 4 x 36" foils
[19:12] <BrainDamage> what microcontroller is it?
[19:12] <BrainDamage> ah wait, you said avr
[19:12] <NigeyS> atmega 168 with a lilypad bootloader
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[19:19] <Laurenceb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathantaphouse/5643055504/
[19:19] <Laurenceb> tesco roit wtf
[19:19] <Laurenceb> *riot
[19:21] <NigeyS> $$PICOCHU-1,21,19:20:20,51.48685,-3.14737,-3,0*A0A9
[19:21] <Laurenceb> thats got to be the most insnae reason for a riot ever
[19:21] <NigeyS> yeeha
[19:21] <Laurenceb> NigeyS: you launching soon?
[19:21] <NigeyS> soon as helium gets here im ready, weather depending
[19:22] <NigeyS> gonna trim the stripboard, gonna struggle to get this under 90grams
[19:22] <Laurenceb> floater?
[19:23] <NigeyS> yups
[19:23] <NigeyS> 4 x 36" 'ers
[19:23] <NigeyS> they reckon 66grams of lift per ballon, but half full.. 33 grams .. i reckon thats optimistic, id say more like 25
[19:24] <Dan-K2VOL2> has anyone actually floated with those?
[19:25] <NigeyS> not yet
[19:25] <NigeyS> its still very much theory
[19:25] <NigeyS> so many things to effect it as you know
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[20:01] <Dan-K2VOL2> yeah the nice thing about balloons that small is that the solution is likely going to be one involving precise math and weighing, but that could all be done automatically inside a big cardboard box to make the balloon extremely still
[20:02] <Dan-K2VOL2> nigeyS ^
[20:03] <NigeyS> very true, im going to try to be as percise as i can with the weighing of the balloons, temperature will be important to
[20:03] <Dan-K2VOL2> true
[20:11] <NigeyS> hm to add a temp sensor or not
[20:12] <hibby> It doesn't take a lot of code / work for onewire sensors
[20:12] <hibby> i guess it's just weight, eh?
[20:12] <NigeyS> true, more concerned about weight lol, every resistor / wire counts
[20:13] <NigeyS> 1 temp sensor could mean 1 less piece of tape securing the bubble wrap .. etc
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[20:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Standalone/standalone.htm
[20:20] <Laurenceb> ^nice(ish)
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> neat
[20:24] <Laurenceb> if it works correctly my pc01smt + ltc2481 solution will outperform it
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:25] <Laurenceb> i still want to try a pt100 based airspeed sensor
[20:26] <Laurenceb> but it would probably be fairly poor
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[20:47] <Dan-K2VOL2> http://balloon.org/webcam/000M.jpg webcam of gas balloon launch, manned, shortly in germany
[20:48] <BrainDamage> invalid link
[20:48] <Dan-K2VOL2> ah
[20:49] <Dan-K2VOL2> http://www.ballon.org/webcam/000M.jpg
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[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> ariane launch imminent
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.videocorner.tv/index.htm
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> I wish there was a reuropean launcher vendor as cool as SpaceX
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> ESA is NASA with wierder accents.
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> well, Vega would be cool
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> Vega?
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> the new small rocket
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> it will fly this year for the first time
[21:06] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:07] Action: SpeedEvil wishes again he had hardware to go along with his sheets of A5r.
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> Oh well.
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> A4
[21:08] <Laurenceb> A5r: costs £5 a sheet
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[21:15] <fsphil> all working NigeyS?
[21:16] <NigeyS> working fine mr phil :D
[21:16] <NigeyS> gonna grab a coffee then play with the code a bit
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[21:17] Nick change: SpeedEvil1 -> SpeedEvil
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello NigeyS
[21:19] <NigeyS> hey kev
[21:19] <NigeyS> brb kettles boiled!
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[21:21] <Zuph> NigeyS: Good idea, I think I'll follow suit.
[21:24] <Laurenceb> #highaltitude: NigeyS make a cup of coffee live
[21:25] <Laurenceb> ooh the excitement :P
[21:25] <Zuph> You paid for the whole seat, but you'll only need the edge!
[21:26] <Laurenceb> well it beats the olympics
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:26] <Zuph> How are you this evening, Lunar_Lander?
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> good, thanks
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> and you?
[21:27] <fsphil> I can't wait for the olympic tea making event
[21:27] <NigeyS> haha
[21:27] <NigeyS> has to be better viewing than a normal friday night!
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[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> I like the tanking suits
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> AUTO SEQUENCE
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> Go At Throttle Up.
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> Oops.
[21:31] <Zuph> I like NASA TV better
[21:31] <fsphil> not a nice day there
[21:33] <fsphil> Jean-Luc is there .. it'll all be fine
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> stream died
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> Working here.
[21:34] <fsphil> me too!!1
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> again working
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> one minute
[21:36] <fsphil> I'm at 20 seconds
[21:37] <SpeedEvil> 10
[21:37] <fsphil> away it goes
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> liftoff
[21:39] <russss> what's it launching?
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Satellites.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Comms sat for africa, and I forget.
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Both to GEO
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> SRB seperated
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> Fairing sep
[21:41] <fsphil> news
[21:41] <fsphil> meh
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> I still think hard
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> what is that S=0.0° ?
[21:41] <Zuph> Not a big fan of the incessent commentary.
[21:41] <russss> I was wondering if it's possible to see the engine burn if it comes over the UK
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> russss not this flight
[21:42] <russss> yeah, in general though
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> it needs to get into a equatorial trajectory
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:42] <russss> if it's GEO it'll be low-inclination
[21:42] <fsphil> don't see why not
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> It's launching mostly at the equator
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph yeah, the other commentary duo is much better
[21:42] <russss> although not zero
[21:43] <Zuph> Lunar_Lander: Other commentary duo?
[21:43] <fsphil> 172km altitude .. nice
[21:44] <fsphil> maybe one day someone here will reach that :)
[21:44] <russss> inclination of GTO is determined by the latitude of the launch site
[21:44] <russss> for some reason
[21:44] <russss> I never understood that
[21:44] <Laurenceb> low orbit
[21:44] <russss> so they sort out the inclination when they do the apogee kick burn
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> Zuph yeah, normally two other men do the commentary
[21:44] <Zuph> Ah
[21:44] <NigeyS> meh hate changing connectors on lipos
[21:45] <BrainDamage> just short them
[21:45] <BrainDamage> problem solved
[21:45] <NigeyS> yeah along with me turning into a ball of flames .. that'd go down well
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> the Intelsat is strange
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> it almost looks like a TV
[21:46] <Laurenceb> ooh sweet shot
[21:46] <fsphil> yea
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> but it is a rerun
[21:47] <Laurenceb> hang on... third stage or second?
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> The burn is cheapest at high altitude
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> they just say upper stage
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> If you're changing planes.
[21:47] <SpeedEvil> To the insane extreme that a commsat actually went _round_the_moon_ as it was cheaper than changing planes normally.
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> it is a matter of enumberation
[21:47] <russss> "In 1969, the Apollo 10 pre-dawn TLI was visible from Cloncurry, Australia. It was described as resembling car headlights coming over a hill in fog, with the spacecraft appearing as a bright comet with a greenish tinge."
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> if you count the SRB as stage 1, it is now stage 3
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> Laurenceb and fsphil the SRB sep and main stage sep videos are from an earlier launch
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> they usually say that they have no cam on the rocket normally
[21:48] <Laurenceb> ah
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> YAHSAT is from the United Arab Emirates
[21:49] <Laurenceb> lot of delta v from the first 'two' stages
[21:49] <Laurenceb> over 6Km/s
[21:49] <fsphil> not sure -- the curvature of the earth looked right for it's position and time of day
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:49] <fsphil> and the atv flight had a shot that also looked right
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> yea, cause it was the same video :P
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> they did say that on a 2010 flighr
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> *flight
[21:50] <fsphil> the atv one had more of the surface visible
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> well at least the SRB sep video is the same I think
[21:51] <russss> I uncovered the citation for that satellite which flew by the moon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAS-22
[21:51] <russss> apparently Boeing patented the process though
[21:51] <russss> http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Boeing_Patent_Shuts_Down_AMC_14_Lunar_Flyby_Salvage_Attempt_999.html
[21:51] <fsphil> you can't patent a trajectory?
[21:51] <russss> apparently you can
[21:51] <BrainDamage> you can patent the wheel
[21:52] <BrainDamage> surely, you can patent a trajectory
[21:52] <Laurenceb> what the hell
[21:52] <russss> well, some orbital manoeuvres are pretty complex
[21:52] <Laurenceb> arg patents
[21:52] <russss> Free return lunar flyby transfer method for geosynchronous satellites
[21:52] <russss> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6116545/description.html
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> LOL the one guy said "fikkuli"
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I forget - were you looking for paper-thin batteries - I found some 0.4mm ones - I forget if it was you though
[21:54] <Laurenceb> no
[21:54] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:54] <Laurenceb> sounds interesting - wasnt me tho
[21:54] <Laurenceb> link?
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/423559152-3-7V-8mAh-043228-Ultra-thin-battery-bank-card-batteries-and-smart-card-batteries-wholesalers.html
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Also an interesting site
[21:55] <SpeedEvil> GPSs for $10
[21:55] <Laurenceb> nice
[21:56] <Laurenceb> obviously for the ipad3
[21:56] <BrainDamage> cheapest shipping is via ems :/
[21:56] <Laurenceb> dual purpose machete as well
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> yeah - shipping varies a lot - as they are an aggregator.
[21:56] <Laurenceb> problem is how you order stuff
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes you need to select the US, then select the UK
[21:57] <Laurenceb> oh they actually stock the stuff?
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> If it says they don't ship
[21:57] <Laurenceb> ooh its going fast now
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> the guy has a book on Gyneacology in the shelf
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/423767224-gps-module-SKG11B-12-12-4mm-the-smallest-dimension-wholesalers.html
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> For example.
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> Though you do need to buy 10.
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> 4.2-3V Vcc
[21:59] <Laurenceb> bleh mediatec
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> XD the one guy's forename is "Wiener"
[22:00] <Laurenceb> i want to get a ublox6, but its 75euros
[22:00] <russss> the best thing about that patent, is this:
[22:00] <russss> "The invention may be used to take the inclination of a final geosynchronous orbit of a satellite to zero, resulting in a geostationary orbit, provided that the satellite is launched in March or September."
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> morons!
[22:01] <russss> it is some pretty hardcore orbital mechanics
[22:01] <russss> with a series of 12 intermediate orbits
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> upper stage burn complete
[22:03] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: might be a useful place to buy lipo cells for electric vehicles i guess
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
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[22:03] <SpeedEvil> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/411456584-8AH-High-discharge-rate-35C-LiFePo4-Battery-cell-for-EV-Car-wholesalers.html
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> who talked about Paper batteries?
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> Dunno.
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> 8Ah A123 cells for $24
[22:04] <SpeedEvil> Which is really good - if real of course
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> oh you showed that
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[22:06] <Laurenceb> nice
[22:06] <Laurenceb> i was thinking of making an electric scootering thing with brushless motor
[22:07] <Laurenceb> probably the only practical cheap electric vehicle thats diyable
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> Well - e-bike is plausible
[22:07] <Laurenceb> http://www.instructables.com/id/Advanced-Brushless-Power-Systems-for-Small-Electri/
[22:07] <BrainDamage> regenerative braking?
[22:07] <Laurenceb> ^like that but more practical
[22:09] Action: russss read "regenerative baking"
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Regenreative braking is less important.
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> For small vehicles like this.
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> Compare how long a car will go if you don't brake it, and a scooter. (on a flat surrface)
[22:10] <Laurenceb> theres quite a few places you can buy small pneumatic wheels and toothed belt drive kit
[22:10] <Laurenceb> so you could make something that goes very fast and has good range with ~$200 of those cells
[22:11] <BrainDamage> yeah, I guess the low mass gives much lower kinetic energy to collect
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> the other guy said
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> "Remember we are in Space and there is no gravity"
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> *facepalm*
[22:11] <BrainDamage> how many lightyears from the closest mass?
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: And more importantly, you can only recover the braking requirements.
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[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> Intelsat is free!
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> mission successful!
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Well - not legally.
[22:12] <BrainDamage> sorry, missed any reply
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I think legally it'd need registered as a light quadricycle.
[22:13] <natrium42> i want a light cycle too
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> commentator guy
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> "My wife said it, it will almost be like having a baby or seeing that baby going to college"
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: You can only recover the energy that is used in braking. In cars, the energy recoverable from braking is large - in scooters it's fairly samll - and the power it needs to go constantly at speed is a large fraction of the nominal power, compared to cars.
[22:15] <BrainDamage> no, I meant to the snide remark about gravity in space
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> I was referring to the earlier aswer
[22:15] <BrainDamage> yeah, I realized that when I considered the different masses
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorised_quadricycle#Light_quadricycles_.28L6e.29 I think is the requirement in law
[22:15] <BrainDamage> and diff cross sections
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[22:16] <BrainDamage> small kinetic energy for same speed, and it goes away from air & other frictions fast
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: and http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/vehicletesting/msvafaqs.asp
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at this a few days ago.
[22:18] <Laurenceb> yeah but a scooter has 2 wheels
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Same applies
[22:20] <BrainDamage> here a friend has an electric bike, he said he does not have to pay taxes nor register as long as he doesn't mount the accelerator controls so it's merely assiting the leg's work
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> Well - the registration requirements.
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> BrainDamage: yup.
[22:20] <BrainDamage> here's in italy, but I'd guess it's not too different
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> Same in the UK
[22:20] <Laurenceb> Vehicles with a maximum design speed not exceeding 6km/h
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> as liong as the motor is under 250W
[22:20] <Laurenceb> ffs
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: that's the invalid carridges bit
[22:20] <Laurenceb> so basically anything faster than a slow walk
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> Vehicles intended for pedestrian control
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> ?
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> (as exempt)
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[22:22] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> One you walk behind
[22:23] <W0OTM> Whats up with arhab.org? Is the admin MIA?
[22:24] <W0OTM> I submitted a launch announcement almost 2 weeks ago and still not posted
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?262234-TK-Monster-Explosion fun
[22:42] <Laurenceb> wow
[22:43] <SpeedEvil> Burst disks are not something I'd have thought of including if I was making a flashlight
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> TK monster sounded a little like "The Blob"
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> I do question how sane anyone is who purchases a 250W incandescant floodlight
[23:19] <Randomskk> wait, 250W?!
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[23:20] <Randomskk> in a handheld unit?
[23:20] <Randomskk> blimey, no wonder it needed so many lipos
[23:20] <NigeyS> i must be mad, added a temp sensor to picochu .. fingers crossed the soldering was spot on or i'm gonna cry
[23:20] <Randomskk> what possible use could someone have for that
[23:21] Action: Randomskk does admit to having a nice torch
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[23:23] <SpeedEvil> I'm upgrading my little 1W AAA torch to a 8* brighter LED
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Ain't technology improvements wonderful.
[23:24] <Randomskk> http://www.fenixtorch.co.uk/led_torches/fenix-pd30-r4.html is mine
[23:25] <Randomskk> it's pretty sexy
[23:26] <BrainDamage> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/trustfire-f20-cree-q5-wc-5-mode-230-lumen-memory-led-flashlight-1-aa-1-14500-28544
[23:27] <BrainDamage> mine
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> I have the L0P
[23:27] <BrainDamage> works really well except for the annoying flash & morse mode
[23:27] <Randomskk> BrainDamage: looks nice
[23:27] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: L0P?
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: It's the L0D - but one gen older
[23:28] <Randomskk> clearly black anodized aluminium with one bright LED is the way forward
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> 1AAA
[23:28] <Randomskk> I'm running mine with two lipo batteries so I can recharge it which is a great idea
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> 20lm max - I'm swapping the LED to getr 160
[23:28] <Randomskk> ah, nice
[23:28] <Randomskk> that's a pretty significant improvement
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> Yeah
[23:29] <Randomskk> it's amazing how bright these things get
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> 160lm/W is damn amazing.
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> If it was nice white light, it would be around 33% efficiency
[23:29] <Randomskk> that's pretty insane
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> I think it's about 22% for the cold white parts.
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[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> awesomeness: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Mettbroetchen.jpg
[23:51] <Randomskk> uuugh. I have so, so much cool electronics shit in this box
[23:51] <Randomskk> I've been lugging it to and from uni for terms
[23:51] <Randomskk> and I've just not had the time to do anything exciting
[23:51] <Randomskk> there's power LEDs, an unopened mbed, some other dev boards including a spartan 3e fpga, loads of my pcbs, motors, lipos, sensors, xbees, two GPSs, radio transmitters
[23:52] <Randomskk> :| I should just make something
[23:53] <Randomskk> I wanna make my quadcopter :(
[23:54] <Randomskk> meh or I could play portal
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[00:00] --- Sat Apr 23 2011