highaltitude.log.20110414

[00:01] <SAIDias> Howdy
[00:01] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[00:01] <hibby> should keep an eye on spacenear.us tomorrow am for the launch
[00:01] <hibby> w00t!
[00:01] <Sab> ok
[00:02] <NigeyS> two GM tubes (Geiger Muller) that normally detect gamma radiation. If you gate these so that you only get an output pulse when both tubes simultaneously detect a ray, then that is a cosmic ray if you are in the atmosphere.
[00:02] <NigeyS> hm he's a bit off about cosmic rays, but thats an idea right there for a muon detector
[00:02] <hibby> NigeyS: really? That's pretty cool.
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[00:03] Action: NigeyS buys SpeedEvil 2 GM tubes
[00:03] <NigeyS> get cracking...lol
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> Oooh - thanks.
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> Actually - youcando very accurate timing of the drop
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[00:03] <NigeyS> ill but them, you build it, deal? :p
[00:03] <SpeedEvil> there is noneed to gat ethem
[00:04] <NigeyS> buy*
[00:04] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[00:04] <SpeedEvil> I need a new keyboard.
[00:04] <NigeyS> lol
[00:04] <SpeedEvil> Regrettably, I haveabsolutely no energy to get stuff done.
[00:04] <NigeyS> will it be accurate enough though?
[00:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/
[00:04] <NigeyS> the timing have to be immensely percise
[00:04] <hibby> I'm using an IBM spacesaver II. It's fantastic :)
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[00:04] <SpeedEvil> I'm just playing with tents at the moment.
[00:05] <Sab> Right, Im off guys. ill go have a good read of the ukhas website (as I have no clue where to start my HAB thesis)...I shall be back some other day hopefully with some intelligent questions. Goodnight to all :)
[00:05] <natrium42> tents?
[00:05] <NigeyS> dam dude youve been busy!
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> hibby: I'm using a spacesaver I think
[00:05] <NigeyS> nn sab, cya soon buddy :D
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: To pile all the stuff from onehalf othe house into.
[00:05] <hibby> Sab: don't worry about the intelligence of the questions
[00:05] <hibby> we're all daft ;)
[00:05] <Sab> thanks :)
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> hibby: yeah - spacesaver I
[00:06] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, you're brave, thats a huge project you've taken on right there
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> My typing is crap as I've been doing too much sawing today.
[00:06] <NigeyS> i bet winter hasnt helped much either :(
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: yeah - basically ripping out all the walls and doing the insulation properly. Heating requirements drop over tenfold.
[00:06] <SpeedEvil> Not really.
[00:07] <NigeyS> ouch, well i hope we have good summer so you can get it done!
[00:07] <SpeedEvil> Indeed!
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[00:07] <SpeedEvil> Worst case is I get the bathroom done, and just live in there over the winter.
[00:07] <hibby> lol
[00:07] <NigeyS> lol
[00:07] <NigeyS> least you wont have far to go for a pee at 3am ........
[00:08] <SpeedEvil> I also realised amusingly that it almost doesn't take that long to pay off using a beeg LN2 dewar off ebay as a hot-water cylinder.
[00:09] <NigeyS> crazyness!
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[00:11] <NigeyS> ok so where can i get 2 GM tubes that will work at low pressure ?
[00:11] <hibby> ebay?
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> I would expecrt most GM tubes will
[00:12] <SpeedEvil> they're sealed, with a low pressure gas inside.
[00:13] <NigeyS> i thought that, but didnt jon have a failure on his on apex 1 due to low pressure ?
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> hibby: Currently using spacesaver keyboard underr blankets. It's great. Also - electric blanket ++
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> Dunno
[00:13] <SpeedEvil> Temperature would concern me more
[00:14] <NigeyS> yeah that could be an issue, as would 1000v of electricity falling to the ground at 10m/s :|
[00:14] <hibby> SpeedEvil: nice. I love having the trackpoint at my fingertips
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> Yup.
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> I've unplugged the internal trackpad though.
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[00:22] <Matt_soton> both launches of apex II have had tubes on, and theyve all failed at 15km
[00:22] <Matt_soton> but come back to life on the way down
[00:22] <NigeyS> ah thanks matt
[00:23] <NigeyS> is it definately a pressure problem you think ?
[00:23] <Matt_soton> the company that gave them to us first thought it might be the power supply cutting out at low temperatures
[00:23] <Matt_soton> although probably unlikely, as they turned back on at different points
[00:24] <Matt_soton> they died at almost the same point
[00:24] <NigeyS> hmm interesting
[00:24] <Matt_soton> but between the two launches the time at which they died was very similar, when on the second launch the power supply was much better insulated
[00:25] <Matt_soton> even if the HV generator was to cut out , the capacitors would keep them running for a while
[00:25] <Matt_soton> between all launches the tubes cut out within 1km of each other
[00:25] <NigeyS> yup true, some thought needed there then :(
[00:25] <Matt_soton> you can make solid state detectors from photodiodes
[00:26] <NigeyS> could be worth a shot
[00:27] <Matt_soton> it seems simple to do
[00:27] <Matt_soton> http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/2236
[00:27] <NigeyS> cheers, will take a read
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[00:31] <NigeyS> someones pinched my maltesers :(
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
[00:32] <NigeyS> its criminal i tell you! king size bag to .. *angry face* !!
[00:32] Action: SpeedEvil wondes what the terminal velocity of a malteaser is.
[00:32] <NigeyS> haha
[00:32] <NigeyS> 11km/s
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[00:42] <NigeyS> bed time nn all!
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[01:18] <Zuph> very nice, natrium42
[01:18] <natrium42> :D
[01:19] <natrium42> he was auctioning off a plush gnu yesterday
[01:19] <natrium42> and said that
[01:19] <natrium42> :P
[01:19] <Zuph> cute :-p
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[06:35] <SamSilver> morning jcoxon do tell about the spot
[06:36] <SamSilver> I saw some of the testing but then left
[06:36] <jcoxon> so we've managed to encode lat/lon/alt into a single message
[06:36] <fsphil> nice. hadie:3 still running on a set of rechargeables from last night
[06:37] <jcoxon> which means that we can now get all the data we need at max transmission rate (every 10mins)
[06:37] <jcoxon> fsphil, still on for launch then?
[06:37] <fsphil> yea, though I haven't run the predictions this-morning yet
[06:38] <fsphil> but I want the payload to be completely finished ahead of time. no 3am gps problems this time
[06:38] <jcoxon> very sensible
[06:41] <fsphil> heh, the landing site gets a bit further away everytime I run it
[06:41] <SamSilver> jcoxon how does spot HQ identify each spot, could you use the id of a 2nd spot encoded into one flying spot so that you could get more than one per 10mins
[06:41] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a6c6daa0543e194939de11c7281acb942a762322
[06:41] <jcoxon> nah the id is hardcoded
[06:42] <jcoxon> also we are using the SPoTs normal MCU we are just faking the GPS data
[06:42] <jcoxon> fsphil, is that okay?
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[06:52] <fsphil> the prediction?
[06:53] <jcoxon> yeah
[06:53] <jcoxon> as in are you happy with it visiting the south?
[06:53] <fsphil> it's a bit further than I'd like
[06:53] <fsphil> and I probably won't have internet access so no uploads to the tracker or ssdv thingy
[06:54] <jcoxon> they'll be trackers
[06:54] <fsphil> I've notified the IAA it's coming anyway, so they're happy. well not happy - but basically said "we can't say no -- but please notify us anyway"
[06:54] <jcoxon> oh the its all cool
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[06:55] <fsphil> they mentioned about not allowing launches there
[06:55] <fsphil> saying there where two many, so they just started saying no to all of them
[06:55] <jcoxon> thats a bit lame
[06:55] <fsphil> yea I don't understand it
[07:01] <fsphil> sunday is a bit better: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=adec7c43e5f441dc05ee9fcb6fb948595fa4bee9
[07:01] <fsphil> oh cool twitter sent me that as an sms
[07:02] <jcoxon> yeah
[07:02] <jcoxon> on my phone now i get it via sms/tweet/email
[07:02] <jcoxon> its a bit excessive
[07:03] <fsphil> I bet lol
[07:03] <fsphil> right, brb.. work awaits
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[07:16] <natrium42> hi jcoxon
[07:16] <natrium42> skypod launch still on you think?
[07:16] <jcoxon> i think so
[07:17] <natrium42> it doesn't have working times again, eh?
[07:17] <jcoxon> i'm not sure jonsowman has been keeping an eye on it
[07:17] <natrium42> not gonna see valid predictions then...
[07:19] <jcoxon> not sure if they made any changes
[07:23] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Tracking hadie:3"
[07:24] <Dan-K2VOL> just finished some cable tie breaking tests - no good. videos recorded on: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/highball-1
[07:24] <Dan-K2VOL> need to break under 50, but above 40
[07:24] <jcoxon> oh gosh no, avoid cable ties
[07:24] <fsphil> hehe, can't hear the signal here in the office. too many obstructions
[07:24] <Dan-K2VOL> well, i'd like to hear what we should use
[07:25] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, i can only say that from experiecne of UKHAS-1
[07:25] <jcoxon> where it lost its parachute from cable tie fatigue
[07:25] <jcoxon> in the cold
[07:25] <Dan-K2VOL> well, I'm testing them in the cryo chamber
[07:25] <Dan-K2VOL> and the issue is that they're just too unpredictable
[07:26] <jcoxon> the magnet idea sounded clever
[07:26] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah, I doubt he used expedited shipping thoug
[07:26] <jcoxon> and you could vary teh break forces by seperation
[07:26] <jcoxon> to get exactly what you wanted
[07:27] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah that's true
[07:27] <jcoxon> would cold effect it?
[07:27] <Dan-K2VOL> we'll find out
[07:27] <Dan-K2VOL> 20lbs of dry ice keeps the chamber at 40C for 24 hours
[07:27] <jcoxon> is this the final barrier?
[07:27] <Dan-K2VOL> no, there's still no antenna resolution
[07:27] <fsphil> oh jcoxon, I slightly changed the ssdv format. the old dl-fldigi will still receive and display it but there'll be little glitches in the image. won't affect uploaded packets
[07:28] <jcoxon> fsphil, how recent is required?
[07:28] <jcoxon> Dan-K2VOL, is that sat antenna?
[07:28] <Dan-K2VOL> I don't have time to do it all, and I am still working on the comm controller code, so the antenna stuff is awaiting brad to stop working on his other projects or me to finish the comm ctrlr code
[07:28] <Dan-K2VOL> yeah
[07:28] <fsphil> it's in github - I think you merged it
[07:29] <jcoxon> we could roll a new version fsphil
[07:29] <fsphil> I basically added a 16-bit checksum
[07:29] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm still trying to fix the bugs in the sat message queues I added at the insistence of the orbcomm guy
[07:29] <fsphil> oh, I've added nmea-coordinate support too
[07:30] <Dan-K2VOL> nightall
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[07:30] <jcoxon> fsphil, you commited that 26/1/11 and we rolled the latest version 24/1/11
[07:31] <fsphil> haha, typical
[07:31] <jcoxon> we could release a new verison
[07:31] <jcoxon> perhaps 115.2
[07:31] <jcoxon> a non-essential update
[07:31] <fsphil> yea
[07:32] <jcoxon> right time for work
[07:32] <fsphil> later!
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[08:01] <NigelMoby> Meh mornings should be banned.
[08:01] <jonsowman> morning everyone
[08:03] <fsphil> Oh mornings will be made illegal when I'm in power. Vote me!
[08:04] <NigelMoby> Lol Yey, morning Phil, Jon
[08:04] <fsphil> also country music. with a maximum sentence of having to wear a clown outfit in public for 1 year
[08:05] <NigelMoby> Lmao, you're a secret fan really :p
[08:05] <SamSilver> vote for fsphil for free coffee!!
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[08:06] <NigelMoby> Oh now I've done it, u mentioned coffee.... white 2 sugars pls :)
[08:07] <NigelMoby> Uve*
[08:07] <fsphil> hadie:3 has been going 9 hours now. sweet
[08:07] <NigelMoby> Woot
[08:07] <fsphil> and that's on rechargables
[08:07] <NigelMoby> Schweet
[08:08] <Darkside> so we got an analog sonde today
[08:08] <Darkside> was a bitch of a chase
[08:09] <Darkside> it landed on top of a hill, so it coul dbe heard 10km away from the landing site
[08:09] <NigelMoby> Hey ds
[08:09] <fsphil> haha, evil
[08:09] <NigelMoby> Lol nasty!!!
[08:09] <Darkside> i have pics
[08:09] <Darkside> hold on
[08:09] <Darkside> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=119280&id=1144042127&l=abd857b02f
[08:09] <fsphil> do the commercial radiosondes have the frequency drift problem we have with the ntx2?
[08:10] <Darkside> well the anlog ones do
[08:10] <Darkside> digital ones don't
[08:10] <Darkside> the analog ones use a free-running oscillator, which drifts like a bitch with temperature changes
[08:10] <NigelMoby> Lol up a tree on a hill, how's that for bad luck
[08:11] <Darkside> after it landed and started heating up, i was measuring it drivting at about 1KHz per minute
[08:11] <Darkside> and i'm tryin gto DF it on sideband, so i'm having to re-tune constantly
[08:11] <fsphil> ooch
[08:12] <NigelMoby> There a Horus launch any time soon ?
[08:12] <Darkside> dunno yet
[08:12] <Darkside> probably early May
[08:12] <NigelMoby> Yey!
[08:13] <SamSilver> in pic dsc 3727 what is the pack of gold stuff?
[08:13] <Darkside> the battery
[08:13] <Darkside> we pulled it out of the sonde
[08:13] <Darkside> ended up leaving it there, we didn't want to carry it back lol
[08:13] <Darkside> its a wet battery, they soak it in wate rbefor launch
[08:13] <Darkside> and by the time it lands its dripping acid >_>
[08:14] <NigelMoby> Ew nice
[08:14] <fsphil> oh nice thing to fly on a balloon
[08:14] <Darkside> well its biodegradable
[08:14] <SamSilver> acid rain
[08:14] <Darkside> of course the rest of the sonde isn't
[08:14] <Darkside> we had to leave the reflector and balloon in the tree, we couldn't get them down
[08:14] <jonsowman> yeah the uk met sondes use wet cells too
[08:14] <Darkside> the sonde was lying on the ground though, lucky
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[08:18] <fsphil> I'd say most of the sondes launches in the uk end up in the north sea
[08:19] <jonsowman> fsphil: I've had a look a couple that people have found
[08:19] <jonsowman> there are two launch sites, both automated, launching 2-3 times a day
[08:19] <jonsowman> one in camborne and the other in the shetlands
[08:20] <fsphil> aah just two .. I'd have expected more
[08:20] <fsphil> They're automated? Now that sounds interesting
[08:20] <jonsowman> there used to be another at larkhill, but afaik it's not active any more
[08:20] <jonsowman> or if it is, it's only used sometimes
[08:21] <eroomde> morning
[08:22] <fsphil> morning ed!
[08:22] <NigelMoby> Morning eroomde
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[08:23] <fsphil> man there's only so much rtty you can listen too
[08:23] <NigelMoby> Lol
[08:23] <Darkside> fsphil: have you heard the analog sondes?
[08:23] <Darkside> they are *far* worse
[08:23] <NigelMoby> My cat hates it
[08:23] <Darkside> and i've been listening to them all day
[08:23] <fsphil> not yet Darkside, I keep meaning to have a listen on those frequencies
[08:24] <Darkside> do it
[08:24] <Darkside> it sounds horrible
[08:24] <Darkside> lots of high pitched tones
[08:34] <fsphil> what is the frequency again? I'll see if there's anything up now
[08:34] <eroomde> dominoEX sounds pretty cool imo
[08:35] <eroomde> a bit extraterrestrial
[08:35] <Darkside> fsphil: there won't be anything up now
[08:35] <Darkside> they will launch around 0Z and 12Z
[08:35] <fsphil> aah
[08:35] <Darkside> scan on WFM and FM between 400 and 403MHz around those times
[08:35] <fsphil> I'll have a listen at 12Z
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[08:39] <fsphil> so the analogue ones use FM too?
[08:39] <Darkside> yes
[08:39] <Darkside> analog ones use WFM, as their tones go up to about 6KHz
[08:40] <Darkside> digital ones use NFM, and use 2400bauf MSK
[08:40] <Darkside> baud*
[08:40] <natrium42> jonsowman: hey
[08:40] <jonsowman> hi natrium42
[08:40] <natrium42> are you going to stick around for skypod launch?
[08:40] <jonsowman> i shall be indeed
[08:40] <natrium42> not sure if they fixed speed and time
[08:41] <jonsowman> I don't know either, sorry
[08:41] <natrium42> but feel free to apply a patch to tracker/track.php if you are so inclined
[08:41] <natrium42> there's an if() clause just for skypod
[08:41] <natrium42> :)
[08:41] <jonsowman> ah, for its weird lat/longs?
[08:41] <natrium42> gonna catch some sleep
[08:41] <natrium42> yeh
[08:41] <g4fns> any ideas about how to open the second window in flydigi
[08:41] <jonsowman> okay great, will do. thanks natrium42
[08:41] <natrium42> might need to do it for speed too
[08:42] <natrium42> although i am ot sure what the current units are
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[08:42] <natrium42> and no idea what the problem with time is...
[08:42] <jonsowman> I think I've got it in an email somewhere
[08:42] <jonsowman> I'll wait until something appears on the tracker and then start hacking
[08:42] <fsphil> g4fns, you need to run two copies
[08:43] <natrium42> jonsowman: coolz
[08:43] <griffonbot> @jonsowman: @MEGroupO: Onsite prepping for launch. ETA 45 mins #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jonsowman/status/58450282840989697]
[08:43] <g4fns> i've tried that but it won't allow me to set the custom parameters for the second window
[08:43] <natrium42> currently time can be HHMMSS or YYMMDDHHMMSS
[08:44] <jonsowman> right
[08:44] <natrium42> sorry, it's YYYY*
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[08:44] <jonsowman> got it
[08:44] <natrium42> anywayz, gnite!
[08:44] <jonsowman> night!
[08:46] <fsphil> ah nuts, I'm being called away. just in time for skypod :(
[08:46] <fsphil> bbl
[08:46] <jonsowman> you've got 45 mins fsphil :)
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[08:51] <fsphil> I'll not be back until 12
[08:51] <jonsowman> ah OK
[08:51] <jonsowman> catch you later :)
[08:52] <fsphil> my radio is online, but ipv6-only: http://cube.sanslogic.co.uk/radio.php
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[09:03] <Blackover> Hello! Is there anyone from project Apex?
[09:04] <Blackover> wHY THEY USE two Geiger-Muller detectors
[09:04] <jonsowman> hi Blackover
[09:04] <eroomde> whyyyyyyyyyy
[09:05] <fsphil> lol
[09:05] <Blackover> Why two, not one
[09:05] <jonsowman> redundancy, and to see whether mounting them vertically or hozintonally makes a difference
[09:06] <jonsowman> (it didn't, though the redundancy was handy, especially in launch one, as one of the tubes failed completely)
[09:06] <eroomde> it shouldn't for gamma at least, and one imagines there's not much else floating around up there
[09:07] <Blackover> So, is there difference?
[09:07] <Blackover> when vertically or hozintonally
[09:07] <jonsowman> not noticeably, no
[09:08] <Blackover> How does this detecr look like?
[09:09] <jonsowman> http://gallery.apex-ii.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-II-PCBs/IMG_0778
[09:11] <Blackover> it works without transformator?
[09:11] <jonsowman> it has a camera flash inverter to generate ~600V
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[09:16] <Blackover> THIS http://gallery.apex-ii.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-II-PCBs/IMG_0782 ?
[09:17] <jonsowman> yup
[09:18] <Blackover> weight
[09:18] <Blackover> ?
[09:18] <jonsowman> not much, the GM tubes are ~7g each, the HV inverter is just a few components, and the controller board is a few grams
[09:23] <jonsowman> skypod on the tracker :)
[09:26] <hibby> morning all
[09:26] <Blackover> morning
[09:26] <jonsowman> morning hibby
[09:27] <hibby> jonsowman: it's not skypod...
[09:27] <hibby> is the one carrying it
[09:27] <LazyLeopard> Right... Strathab1 is on the tracker...
[09:27] <jonsowman> oh yes
[09:27] <jonsowman> I forgot there were two
[09:27] <LazyLeopard> Skypod will presumably appear shortly?
[09:28] <hibby> hopefully
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[09:30] <Blackover> is it light sensor? http://gallery.apex-ii.apexhab.org/index.php/Apex-II-PCBs/IMG_0692
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[09:30] <jonsowman> Blackover: yes, it's a 4 channel photodiode
[09:30] <hibby> 4chan?
[09:30] <MNSP> hello all :)
[09:31] <jonsowman> not 4chan :P
[09:31] <hibby> lol
[09:32] <hibby> that qrm I had last time when pointing roughly south is still there. Lucky for me, this is east, so I won't hear it
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[09:34] <LazyLeopard> Which way's the balloon expected to go today?
[09:35] <hibby> south from edinburro
[09:35] <SamSilver> up?
[09:35] <jonsowman> lol
[09:35] <hibby> lol
[09:36] <hibby> that too, hopefully.
[09:36] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[09:37] <hibby> time shall tell.
[09:37] <LazyLeopard> South is good. Up is good, too, at least for hlf the flight. ;)
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[09:38] <hibby> morning gm8oti
[09:39] <gm8oti> morning hibby
[09:39] <hibby> launch is over your way
[09:39] <gm8oti> yup - g4jtj should be on too
[09:40] <hibby> cool
[09:43] <eroomde> what time hibby ?
[09:43] <LazyLeopard> ...and in a position to catch most of the flight, for a change. ;)
[09:45] <hibby> sometime soon, afaik
[09:45] <eroomde> fsphil: what's your current listening distance record?
[09:45] <hibby> balloon filling was occuring 15 mins ago
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[09:45] <eroomde> hibby: h'ok cool
[09:46] <hibby> eroomde: there's a bit of faff occurring with the 2 payloads
[09:46] <gm4jtj> gm8oti Morning John can you hear anything??
[09:46] <jonsowman> eroomde: he's away, but 563km from Apex II
[09:47] <eroomde> ok
[09:47] <eroomde> interesting
[09:48] <eroomde> metric tonne of cloud today though to absorb all the rf
[09:49] <hibby> time'll tell
[09:49] <hibby> i should be alright on the silly station here
[09:49] <gm8oti> gm4jtj I can see a faint carrier but don't know if that's it
[09:50] <gm4jtj> gm8oti yes me too
[09:50] <eroomde> cam to strathclyde isn't even 500km infact
[09:50] <eroomde> nvm
[09:50] <eroomde> i'll try it from the south downs some time
[09:51] <eroomde> i guess that's jcoxon's intention too
[09:51] <hibby> gm4jtj: there'll be two distinct signals
[09:51] <hibby> but one has a constant tone, one comes on and off
[09:51] <gm8oti> hibby yes, I'm looking for the RTTY - is there another frequency in use as well?
[09:52] <LazyLeopard> ...on different frequencies, hopefully?
[09:52] <hibby> both on 434.650(ish). One will drop off as it get colder the other should stick. Time shall tell. Didn't have any budget left to buy new TX kit.
[09:53] <LazyLeopard> Ah... Ok... Different shifts?
[09:53] <gm4jtj> hibby i've got a second window open which config a 23hz shift 8bit ascii, will it be down the middle of the 600shift signal on the carrier frequency?
[09:54] <hibby> not sure. afai both are 600/100/7n2
[09:55] <gm4jtj> no doubt we will soon find out! thanks
[09:55] <gm8oti> anyone know if it's going to call itself "skypod" or "SKYPOD" this time? ;-)
[09:55] <gm8oti> last time I wasn't sending data for ages as I had the wrong config
[09:56] <hibby> i don't think the skypod code has been changed
[09:56] <gm8oti> ok
[09:56] <hibby> and I don't remember making any changes to strathab either
[09:56] <jonsowman> its clock is still wrong then?
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[09:57] <hibby> Entirely possible. I've not had much contact with the group in a technical sense - only passed on feedback about the last launch and left them to it
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[10:09] Action: hibby grumbles a bit at the IC910
[10:10] <hibby> 2 mins max is the word on the wire
[10:11] <gm8oti> gm4jtj that carrier's gone here
[10:11] <gm4jtj> yes it was intermittent
[10:12] <M0DTS_Rob> had two carriers warbling away here too on +/- .650 gone now.
[10:13] <hibby> silent for me :/
[10:14] <gm8oti> found another stronger one a bit further up but it doesn't have the RTTY every 40s
[10:14] <hibby> no?
[10:15] <hibby> find out in due course, eh?
[10:17] <gm4jtj> can definitely see it and the scond signal is about 900hz lower
[10:19] <gm8oti> gm4jtj by it do you mean the RTTY?
[10:19] <hibby> that could be them away... there's movemen
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[10:20] <jgrahamc> Is the skypod launch going ahead?
[10:20] <hibby> aye
[10:21] <hibby> looks like they've just let go
[10:21] <jonsowman> nothing on tracker?
[10:21] <hibby> nope
[10:21] <hibby> it's strathab and skypod on one unit
[10:21] <LazyLeopard> Nowt on tracker yet.
[10:22] <hibby> oops, there's crisis and controversy...
[10:22] <jonsowman> oh dear?
[10:22] <Elwell> someone let go while filling?
[10:22] <LazyLeopard> Do tell...
[10:22] <hibby> im waiting to hear
[10:23] <hibby> slight launch technicality
[10:23] <gm4jtj> the shift does not look like 600
[10:23] <Elwell> 'but *you* were supposed to bring the He'?
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[10:24] <hibby> nah, it looks like it went down when they let go, it dragged along the ground, broke the payload carrying structure, out popped skypod and then strathab floated off
[10:24] <Elwell> do both cargos have independant radios?
[10:24] <hibby> aye
[10:24] <jonsowman> oh dear
[10:25] <hibby> gm4jtj: getting anything through?
[10:25] <LazyLeopard> Ah... So skypod's grounded and strathab's heading skyward?
[10:25] <hibby> as far as I can tell
[10:25] <hibby> not hearing anything though
[10:28] <gm4jtj> I make it hf of 434.065
[10:28] <hibby> hf?
[10:30] <gm4jtj> higher in frequency only slightly
[10:31] <gm8oti> .065?
[10:31] <hibby> im guessing that was meant to be 650.
[10:31] <hibby> gm4jtj: the only one you should be hearing now, afaik, is strathab1
[10:31] <gm8oti> the mobile phone tracker still had on the ground 1 min ago
[10:31] <hibby> gm8oti: skypod died, that's why
[10:32] <hibby> see me at 11:22
[10:32] <gm8oti> ahhhhh
[10:33] <gm4jtj> yes that would appear to be so
[10:34] <hibby> is strathab transmitting at all?
[10:35] <Upu> morning all. Question how do I plug a SMA Male antenna connector into my FT817's SO259 ?
[10:35] <Upu> I can't find any where that does SMA female to PL259 adaptors
[10:35] <Upu> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1pcs-x-PL259-SMA-Female-RF-Adaptor-S027-/260725493401?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item3cb4734e99
[10:35] <hibby> Upu: converters... i used to have pl-bnc-sma
[10:35] <Upu> well aprt from hong kong
[10:35] <Upu> ah so go to BNC first ?
[10:35] <LazyLeopard> ...and if so, what RTTY settings would be appropriate?
[10:36] <Upu> rgr
[10:36] <hibby> Upu: just whatever I had, really.
[10:36] <Upu> thx hibby
[10:36] <hibby> LazyLeopard: xml should be in hab mode fldigi
[10:37] <LazyLeopard> It's saying shift 600, 100 baud, 8 bits, no parity, 2 stop bits, which is... slightly unusual...
[10:37] <hibby> i think it'll be 7 bits ascii
[10:37] <hibby> but the rest is fine
[10:38] <LazyLeopard> including the 100 baud?
[10:38] <hibby> mmhmm
[10:40] <hibby> why's it unusual?
[10:41] <gm4jtj> gm8oti can you see a signal witth 410Hz shift at about 1.5Khf?
[10:42] Action: LazyLeopard just expects 50 or 300... ;)
[10:42] <hibby> lol
[10:42] <LazyLeopard> 100 might be a good compromise. ;)
[10:42] <jonsowman> is anyone decoding?
[10:43] <jonsowman> nothing on tracker.. xml issue?
[10:43] <hibby> jonsowman: skypod failed, strathab was on the tracker but no one can hear it
[10:43] <jonsowman> ah
[10:43] <hibby> or at least, I can't, and no one else seems to be decoding it
[10:43] <hibby> jonsowman: see me @ 11:22
[10:43] <jonsowman> so it's in the air but un-decodable?
[10:43] <hibby> prossibly
[10:44] <gm8oti> gm4jtj no - I can see a carrier 550Hz above .650
[10:44] <gm8oti> unhearable never mind undecodeable
[10:45] <hibby> things must have borked in the terrible launch then
[10:45] <jonsowman> :(
[10:45] <jgrahamc> :-(
[10:45] <hibby> oh well. gsm tracker is all we can rely on now, lol
[10:46] <jonsowman> run predictions
[10:46] <jonsowman> and head to the landing site, basically
[10:47] <hibby> dunno if the chaps who are following it are quite that... resourceful
[10:47] <gm8oti> that'll be fun - all the clouds here are heading East
[10:48] <hibby> gm8oti: it's alright, the tracker sas it'll be 30mls south of peebles
[10:49] <hibby> predictr, even
[10:49] <gm8oti> hibby I should certainly have heard it then - it's definitely flying?
[10:49] <hibby> from what they say, aye. I should be hearing it too
[10:50] <hibby> i suspect radio bits got damaged in the dragging along the ground bit.
[10:50] <gm8oti> ouch
[10:51] <gm8oti> antenna mangled then ;-(
[10:51] <hibby> aye, something like that
[10:56] <LazyLeopard> Oh dear... :(
[10:58] <LazyLeopard> ...and ascent rate etc might be different if it's (a) under-filled, and (b) now carrying a somewhat lighter payload...
[10:59] <hibby> indeed
[10:59] <hibby> ocht well
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[11:02] <hibby> shite
[11:02] <hibby> just had a formal request from the uni not to go ahead with the launch
[11:03] <jgrahamc> Any idea why?
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[11:04] <eroomde> those insurance emails on the lsit got back to them?
[11:06] <hibby> insurance, sadly.
[11:06] <hibby> "Launch failed. Reason: total catastrofuck".
[11:06] <jonsowman> hahaha
[11:07] <eroomde> that's very annoying
[11:07] <gm4jtj> absolute silence here
[11:07] <eroomde> Is the project an official university/course project then Hibby?
[11:07] <hibby> eroomde: aye, we've got three groups working on separate balloons for their MEng
[11:07] <eroomde> ah ok
[11:08] <hibby> one aero-mechanical, one mechanical, one electrical-mechanical
[11:08] <eroomde> if you need insurance PDQ I can give you contacts that should be able to do it
[11:08] <eroomde> can't promise it's the lowest quote though, but I've not found a lower one
[11:09] <hibby> I think we've put the program on hold for this academic year, but if you fire me an email to david(dot)hibberd(at)strath(dot)ac(dot)uk it would be ideal :)
[11:10] <eroomde> it would say though that if it's official uni business it's probably much better to try and get it through the university's insurers
[11:11] <eroomde> they should be able to handle quoting for things that no one has done before, that being the nature of research
[11:11] <hibby> also true
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[11:16] <eroomde> hibby: sent
[11:16] <LazyLeopard> I suppose organisations like the Met Office don't worry about insurance?
[11:16] <hibby> danke
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[11:19] <jgrahamc> I bet the Met Office has insurance
[11:19] <jonsowman> they do
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> IIRC they don't
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> They self-insure.
[11:19] <jonsowman> well, yes
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> There was a FOIA request
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> The same way you don't actually have to buy car insurance.
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> You can submit a bond of 500K to the court in london.
[11:20] <jonsowman> the only incident they've ever had to pay out for, radiosonde related, was when a balloon landed in a field, startling a horse, which subsequently had a heart attack and died.
[11:20] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a FOIA request to find out how many people actually do that.
[11:20] <jgrahamc> Wow
[11:20] <hibby> hahaha
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> I recall some greenhouse related incidents too
[11:22] <hibby> I find that slightly hilarious. Is that bad? I'd better not tell mrs H... she got upset that horses died at the grand national
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/dna_profiling_in_birds_of_prey#incoming-27206
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - not on the whatdotheyknow site - the FOIA I thought I remembered.
[11:24] <eroomde> they went through a sky-light in a school once too. but yes, they just have a lump sum
[11:24] <eroomde> same with post office's fleet of vehicles
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[11:25] <SpeedEvil> Certain public bodies are also not required to have insurance.
[11:25] <hibby> i'm a public body?
[11:25] <hibby> :p
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[11:25] <Elwell> we heard that ...
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> For example - LHAs.
[11:27] <eroomde> someone on here a bit ago mentioned that the british model flying association might include HABs in their insurance, in exchange for us paying BMFA membership
[11:27] <eroomde> which would be super helpful
[11:28] <hibby> they struggling for members?
[11:28] <hibby> :p
[11:30] <eroomde> dunno
[11:30] <eroomde> quite poss
[11:30] <eroomde> i haven't heard anything about it since though
[11:32] <Elwell> hmm. wind picking up n storms coming over Genova. Suspect I won't be working on the shack antenna tonight.
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[11:34] <GW8RAK> Quick update - the BMFA will not include us on their insurance as HAB'ing is not one of their core activities
[11:35] <GW8RAK> However if we were flying planes and one came down on a parachute, it would be covered.
[11:35] <fsphil> evening all -- just got back, any news?
[11:35] <GW8RAK> So make your payload plane shaped and just lie about the HAB bit
[11:36] <hibby> fsphil: skypod/strathab was a bit of a catastrofuck
[11:36] <fsphil> uh-oh
[11:37] <fsphil> though 10 points for inventing a new term
[11:37] <hibby> to add to it, university finance called me/head of research group/anyone in the department telling us to stop
[11:38] <hibby> everything was passed to me as I'm coordinating most of this, and they emailed me...
[11:39] <hibby> and my reply was: "Launch failed. Reason: total catastrofuck". Not had anything back...
[11:41] <fsphil> eroomde, 563km with apex-ii last weekend
[11:47] <NigelMoby> Meh
[11:49] <fsphil> (just read up on the story .. ooch!)
[11:50] <hibby> mmm
[11:50] <NigelMoby> Me to, that dam I word
[11:51] <NigelMoby> Jonsowman about?
[11:51] <jonsowman> yup
[11:51] <NigelMoby> Hey Jon
[11:51] <jonsowman> hi NigelMoby
[11:52] <NigelMoby> Matt was saying the irds cut out at 15km?
[11:52] <fsphil> no signals heard on ~434.650 here
[11:52] <hibby> fsphil: we suspect strathab is dead in the air
[11:52] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: yeah, on both launches
[11:52] <NigelMoby> Hmm puzzling
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[12:02] <hibby> insathahah, the finance woman told on my to the head of department...
[12:02] <hibby> he came in here and lolled
[12:02] <hibby> **told on me.
[12:02] <hibby> this is going to be a fun day.
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[12:15] <fsphil> yeasilly internet
[12:15] <fsphil> silly keyboard
[12:16] <hibby> you tell it
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[12:19] <fsphil> ah, the battery drained enough to stop the gps working on hadie:3 -- took over 11 hours.
[12:19] <fsphil> payload is still transmitting though
[12:19] <jonsowman> pretty good
[12:20] <fsphil> I'm pleased with that, more than enough time to find it I hope
[12:20] <fsphil> plus the camera will go into a sleep mode during descent, so it should last longer than that after an actual flight
[12:20] <jonsowman> :) energiser lihtiums?
[12:21] <fsphil> ooh and those too. these are just rechargables
[12:21] <jonsowman> oh nice
[12:21] <fsphil> it should transmit for most of the day then
[12:21] <jonsowman> well the lithiums are nominally 3Ah
[12:22] <fsphil> these cells are 1.5ah I think
[12:22] <fsphil> no, 2.4ah
[12:23] <jonsowman> fair enough
[12:23] <jgrahamc> Those Energizer batteries are amazing.
[12:23] <fsphil> ain't they just
[12:24] <fsphil> Just asking the chase team if they're happy to travel so far to retrieve the payload. though I suppose I could overfill a bit
[12:24] <jgrahamc> I'm going to build myself an automatic azimuth/elevation rotator for my UHF Yagi so I can follow those launches from home. I've got a nice flat roof it can sit on and I should be able to remote control from work.
[12:24] <jgrahamc> Anyone done this?
[12:24] <Upu> I plan to remote control when I get my colinear up
[12:25] <fsphil> someone here built a 'track-a-tron', but I can't remember who
[12:25] <Upu> tilt and pan is far too complex
[12:25] <Upu> was me
[12:25] <Upu> that was overly ambitious for the car
[12:25] <jonsowman> we've got an autorotator (CUSF) but we didn't build the rotator
[12:25] <hibby> jgrahamc: http://db.tt/0DU03mf
[12:25] <hibby> admittedly, i didn't build the fun bits...
[12:25] <Upu> the idea being the yagi would point at the balloon no matter what the orientation of the car underneth it
[12:27] <jgrahamc> That's pretty ambitious Upu
[12:27] <Upu> yeah very :)
[12:27] <jgrahamc> Yeah, hibby that's nice but a little larger than the installation I'm thinking of.
[12:28] <jgrahamc> I did the torque calcuations and I should be able to build it with some old high torque servos that I have.
[12:29] <fsphil> I suppose I could just point a yagi towards cambridge, forget the motors :)
[12:29] <hibby> yaaay!
[12:29] <Upu> was going to be based on this http://servocity.com/html/tube_servo_power_gearboxes.html jgrahamc
[12:29] <hibby> contact!
[12:29] <fsphil> sms?
[12:29] <hibby> instamapper
[12:30] <fsphil> it must be on or near the ground then
[12:31] <jgrahamc> Where is it?
[12:31] <hibby> aye
[12:31] <hibby> looks to have come to rest now near a town called eskdalemuir
[12:32] <hibby> at least I'll get my phone back
[12:32] <LazyLeopard> Chase crew anywhere near it?
[12:32] <hibby> aye
[12:32] <hibby> bout 15-20 mins
[12:32] <fsphil> aah almost directly south
[12:33] <fsphil> yay for gsm backup
[12:33] <hibby> totally
[12:33] <LazyLeopard> Does that match predictions?
[12:34] <LazyLeopard> Google's aerial photo is all covered in snow... ;)
[12:34] <hibby> almost exactly
[12:34] <LazyLeopard> Good.
[12:34] <LazyLeopard> Something worked.
[12:34] <Elwell> hibby: just hope it didn't land heavily or the AWE people will get jumpity :-)
[12:35] <hibby> Elwell: we're fucked if ther's any insurance anyway
[12:35] <hibby> LazyLeopard: the predictor was, actually, brilliant.. lke... 4 miles off or something
[12:35] <Elwell> if its at eskdalemuir observatory they'll probably give the kit a once-over for you :-)
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[12:48] <eroomde> jgrahamc: as jonsowman says, we have such a system currently
[12:48] <eroomde> an auto-tracker, that is
[12:50] <jgrahamc> Did you build it?
[12:50] <eroomde> we used an off the shelf az-el. i'm quite interested in building my own one though
[12:51] <jgrahamc> I'm going to have a go using some old high torque servos that I have. I did the calculations last night and they should be ok for the light Yagi I have.
[12:52] <eroomde> cool
[12:52] <eroomde> i think as long as you have a good balance you're fine - your main concern is holding torque when you stop a traverse
[12:53] <eroomde> i.e. not stripping the gears
[12:53] <jgrahamc> Agreed. These servos have titanium gears (I think they were designed for radio control yachts).
[12:53] <eroomde> ah yes - yacht servos should be perfect
[12:53] <eroomde> i was looking at sail winch servos for mine too
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> jgrahamc: This is ground station I assime?
[12:54] <jgrahamc> That's right SpeedEvil. I'd like to be able to participate in the 'listening' side of HAB and the easiest way will be for me to set up a ground station at home.
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[12:54] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[12:55] <jgrahamc> The other good thing about yacht servos is that they are sealed.
[12:55] <SpeedEvil> Where are you / home again - I forgot.
[12:55] <W0OTM> Hello World
[12:55] <Elwell> Q - is SBAS active in europe?
[12:55] <fsphil> sealing them would be my concern, if I did it home-brew
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> SBAS is a generic term.
[12:56] <eroomde> jgrahamc: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4082160869/
[12:56] <eroomde> this is out current set-up
[12:56] <Elwell> well, I guess egnos
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> Elwell: You may be searching for EGNOS
[12:57] <jgrahamc> Very nice
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:57] <eroomde> jgrahamc: I think we have to phase four yagis together eventually
[12:57] <eroomde> for a bit more gain
[12:57] <jgrahamc> Fun
[12:57] <eroomde> and so it faintly resembles some kind of surface to air missile system
[12:58] <jonsowman> :P
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> http://karakullake.blogspot.com/2010/12/japanese-1932-war-tubas-ear-trumpets.html
[12:58] <fsphil> I had two yagi's mounted in a tripod last time .. looks pretty epic :)
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> I probably posted that before.
[12:58] <fsphil> on*
[12:59] <eroomde> irssi doesn't seem to print links properly for me
[12:59] <Upu> BTW if anyone has a donor radio I could possibly get it located on the top of a hirise in Manchester connected to the internet
[12:59] <jonsowman> oh? is alright here
[12:59] <Upu> and antenna ofc
[12:59] <eroomde> can you try and bitly it for me?
[13:00] <jonsowman> http://bit.ly/f4fYk4
[13:00] <eroomde> blimey
[13:00] <jonsowman> are you sure it's irssi rather than your terminal?
[13:00] <eroomde> poss my terminal
[13:00] <eroomde> hold on 1
[13:01] <eroomde> nope, it concatinates
[13:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Hibberd "[UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
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[13:03] <eroomde> hibby: what was today's catastrophe
[13:03] <eroomde> (re: yoiur email)
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[13:05] <Upu> yeah interested
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[13:06] <Dan-K2VOL> ok, what's Dave Hibberd talking about
[13:06] <Dan-K2VOL> 'catastrophe'
[13:06] <eroomde> the previous two comments are both that
[13:06] <eroomde> that question ^
[13:07] <eroomde> we're waiting to hear
[13:07] <Dan-K2VOL> so there's no public knowledge of any catastrophe, no balloons hit airplanes, no small children got stuck in balloons, etc. that we know of
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[13:08] <eroomde> I'm hoping it's just imprecise working
[13:08] <eroomde> rather than an actual catastrophe
[13:08] <eroomde> wording*
[13:08] <jonsowman> the worst I know of from this morning is that the balloon was underfilled and bounced along the ground a bit
[13:08] <Dan-K2VOL> I don't see anything on cnn or gaurdian front pages
[13:08] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[13:08] <Dan-K2VOL> good to hear jonsowman
[13:08] <jonsowman> and the skypod payload let go, and only strathab went up
[13:09] <jonsowman> also, strathab's radio failed, probably due to damage at launch
[13:09] <Dan-K2VOL> ah, any hypothesis on why the payload came off?
[13:09] <jonsowman> as it bounced along the ground
[13:09] <jonsowman> it didn't have enough lift with both payloads, but once skypod had come free, strathab went up
[13:10] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: likely students doing sums wrong
[13:10] <Matt_soton> does skypod have the record for the shortest flight now?
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[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL> ha hibby
[13:10] <m1x10> hi all
[13:10] <hibby> and the email from the uni doesn't help matters
[13:10] <Dan-K2VOL> well, lesson learned, sums are important in a balloon launch! and the attachments should be able to take a beating.
[13:10] <eroomde> I have witnessed some fairly... short 'flights'
[13:11] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: 'salright, we won't be launching for the forseeable future, so lessons in ballooning aren't that useful sadly
[13:11] <Dan-K2VOL> interesting, I've never heard of a university saying to decist
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I forget - were you at the 'running frantically after balloon, leaping after it as it bumped across the ground' one?
[13:11] <hibby> ".the University is uninsured for this activity and that no further flights should be undertaken before insurance can be put in place."
[13:12] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: yes
[13:12] <Dan-K2VOL> ah
[13:12] <eroomde> i nearly died in that launch
[13:12] <eroomde> from laughter, as much as I shouldn't admit
[13:12] <jonsowman> haha
[13:12] <hibby> me telling the woman that sent me an email that "it's ok, the launch failed as it was a catastrofuck" likely didn't help
[13:12] <eroomde> just the sight of james tearing across the muddy field after this payload, mud flying everywhere
[13:12] <hibby> she told the head of department, and he came and had a laugh with me.
[13:13] <Dan-K2VOL> sorry, I get all the different groups mixed up hibby, was that the launch this morning you mean?
[13:14] <hibby> Dan-K2VOL: aye, we has Strathab 1 carrying a modified skypod as a payload
[13:14] <eroomde> hibby: could you email around the list just to clarify that there's not actually been a catastrophe in the context of needing insurance, like someone being injured?
[13:14] <hibby> and it was going to be dropped at 29k, but I think they were too busy looking for height as opposed to getting it off the ground
[13:14] <hibby> eroomde: aye, no worries
[13:15] <eroomde> ta
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> so is CUSF in the sh*t ?
[13:15] <hibby> Laurenceb_: totally
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[13:16] <hibby> Laurenceb_: oh, in the shit, not is the shit
[13:16] <hibby> Laurenceb_: it's SUNSET that's up shit creek
[13:16] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: er, why?
[13:19] <griffonbot> Received email: Dave Hibberd "[UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
[13:20] <eroomde> ty hibby
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[13:30] <fsphil> Not counting NASA, there hasn't been any really expensive failures so far has there?
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[13:34] <Laurenceb_> i was confused if there was an issue with insurance, thats all
[13:35] <eroomde> i hope it doesn't involve us, whatever it is :)
[13:39] <Matt_soton> apex was launched on the schools public liability insurace...
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[13:47] <NigeyS> so.. afternoon as opposed to good afternoon then ?
[13:48] <fsphil> well it's quite nice outside ... :)
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[13:53] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[13:53] <W0OTM> .
[13:54] <NigeyS> wow as phil said that the sun came out.. freaky!
[13:54] <NigeyS> hey W0OTM
[13:54] <NigeyS> was that info any good yesterday RE the antenna desensing ?
[13:55] <W0OTM> NigeyS: yeah, I am going to have 35ft vertical separation between the 2 payloads. will test that
[13:56] <NigeyS> oh that's cool
[13:56] <hibby> just seen the video of the launch
[13:56] <hibby> lol...
[13:57] <NigeyS> youtube!
[13:57] <jgrahamc> Has it been recovered hibby?
[13:57] <W0OTM> I have the APRS xmtr and DTMF control freq receiver on the bottom of the 2m band and my VHF repeater on 147.500
[13:58] <hibby> jgrahamc: dunno about the carrier, but the payload never really got off the ground...
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[13:58] <jgrahamc> Oops
[13:58] <NigeyS> W0OTM, by the sounds of it, from what i read yesterday you should be ok, it got confusing when he went on about radiation patters mind :|
[13:58] <hibby> the group who made the carrier were launching it, and eh, let the balloon line out, then kinda threw it up in the air
[13:59] <Elwell> hibby: as NigeyS says ... youtube it
[13:59] <jgrahamc> That is why I was so happy to have eroomde help with the GAGA-1 launch; handy to have someone who knows what they are doing around.
[13:59] <hibby> unsurprisingly gravity took over, the line stretched and the whole thing came to ground, disintegrated and flew off
[13:59] <NigeyS> jgrahamc, my very reason for going to the CUSF site for my first launch
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[14:04] <jgrahamc> Going to my daughter's school to show some pictures from GAGA-1 to the kids in her class. My daughter has new announced that the next flight should not be a balloon, but a rocket.
[14:04] <Laurenceb_> rockoon
[14:04] <jgrahamc> ^new^now
[14:05] <hibby> nice
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> Orbital rockoon.
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[14:06] <eroomde> jgrahamc: she's thinking the right way
[14:06] <eroomde> now daddy just has to hurry and and build it over a couple of weekends
[14:06] <NigeyS> hehe yup, chop chop
[14:06] <NigeyS> how are the power supplies coming along Laurenceb_ ?
[14:07] <Laurenceb_> done
[14:07] <Laurenceb_> just the mems to populate now
[14:07] <NigeyS> blimey that was quick
[14:07] <Laurenceb_> easy with a stencil
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[14:07] <Laurenceb_> need sparkfun to get their act together and ship my parts now
[14:07] <NigeyS> oh eroomde i ordered some polystyrene balls for the end of the antenna radials, taking on board our discussion yesterday
[14:08] <jonsowman> spears of death \o/
[14:08] <NigeyS> ahh SF .. i'd use them more but 3 weeks waiting for an order ...
[14:08] <NigeyS> lol jon
[14:08] <eroomde> yes, let's not have any more spears of death flights
[14:09] <eroomde> one was enough for my lifetime
[14:09] Action: Upu looks about
[14:09] <NigeyS> also, the wire is a bit thinner than i thought, any kind of impact will most certainly bend the wire before it causes an injury of any kind
[14:09] <jgrahamc> Yes, eroomde, she is thinking the right way. Really glad that she enjoyed it so much.
[14:10] Action: NigeyS spots upu looking innocent in the corner :P
[14:10] <jgrahamc> Also, the polystyrene balls on the antenna on GAGA-1 was what convinced eroomde that the yellow dot he saw through the trees was the capsule. Handy.
[14:10] <eroomde> NigeyS: the two bees in by habbing bonnet - cable ties and spiky antennas - can both be traced back to one of our very early flights
[14:10] <fsphil> I've received all but one SF order within or exactly a week
[14:10] <eroomde> nuff said, but there are good reasons that I get jumpy!
[14:10] <Upu> cable ties where ?
[14:10] <NigeyS> cable ties ?
[14:11] <NigeyS> ive got to use a couple on my stripboard, but thats about it i think
[14:11] <jonsowman> as long as they're not load bearing, you're alright
[14:11] <fsphil> I used cable ties to secure the balloon neck
[14:11] <fsphil> but the balloon itself held the load
[14:11] <NigeyS> oh no def not, mainly on the antenna cable to stop it wobbling around the stripboard and yanking the ntx2 off
[14:12] <jonsowman> they go brittle at low temperatures, so don't use them in critical loadbearing
[14:12] Action: NigeyS makes note
[14:13] <eroomde> all the load is held by a little thin plastic pin
[14:14] <eroomde> which will happily snap at -60 in most types of cable tie i've used
[14:14] <NigeyS> jonsowman, minus a few code tidyups, ATS-1 hardware and software prototyping is complete, just needs putting on stripboard and a nice long soak test :D
[14:14] <Upu> what do you attach the balloon with ?
[14:14] <jonsowman> sounds good
[14:14] <Upu> I thought it was cable tied at the neck ?
[14:15] <fsphil> that's what I did Upu
[14:15] <fsphil> + duct tape
[14:15] <NigeyS> me to , but arent we meant to do a string loop thingy, then cable tie for added security .. ?
[14:15] <jonsowman> eroomde: I wonder if rapstraps would be any better
[14:15] <Upu> I have some nice thick unlockable nylon ties
[14:15] <jonsowman> they're pretty cheap these days
[14:16] <Upu> thats not my concern the parachute opening it whats bothering me
[14:16] <NigeyS> oh upu have you drawn a blank with the x-form ?
[14:16] <eroomde> Upu: always + duct tape
[14:16] <eroomde> so the duct tape takes the hoop stress
[14:17] <fsphil> ooh cool I did something properly :)
[14:17] <Upu> no it seems to work but I got some ideas from Rob Harrison, he ran the cord though the centre of the top of the chute
[14:17] <Upu> hard to test it
[14:17] <NigeyS> theres no hole there for that though ... ?
[14:17] <Upu> sissors...
[14:17] <NigeyS> oh crikey
[14:17] <Upu> 1 sec
[14:17] <NigeyS> anyone want to buy a x-form shoot ? lol
[14:18] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/A-%20The%20chute%20hanging%20limply.JPG
[14:18] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/B-%20The%20confluence%20point%20tied%20to%20the%20main%20line%20.JPG
[14:19] <Upu> note the gun :)
[14:19] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/C.jpg
[14:19] <hibby> \o/
[14:20] <NigeyS> oo interesting, nice gun though dude lol
[14:20] <hibby> new gps works out the box
[14:20] <Upu> that Rob Harrisons
[14:20] <eroomde> Upu: that's the technique we used to do and showed rob when he first tried a few years ago I think, but I'm certainly more of a fan of having the parachutes as load bearing and tiring the string to their apex
[14:20] <Elwell> hibby: that suprises you?
[14:20] <Upu> any illustrations eroomde ?
[14:21] <hibby> Elwell: when electronics work, im always surprised
[14:22] <NigeyS> lol hibby has much faith ;)
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[14:23] <NigeyS> morning Dan-K2VOL !
[14:23] <hibby> NigeyS: I have a degree in electronic & mechanical engineering... of course I have faith
[14:23] <hibby> still can't use a fsking op amp properly, lol
[14:24] <NigeyS> lol at least you know what 1 is ... ;)
[14:24] <Dan-K2VOL> morning
[14:24] <NigeyS> how are you this morning ?
[14:25] <eroomde> Upu: jgrahamc has doen a good diagram here: http://blog.jgc.org/2011/03/gaga-1-stack.html
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm ok, got that printf_P working I showed you yesterday
[14:25] <Dan-K2VOL> NigeyS
[14:25] <Upu> interesting
[14:25] <NigeyS> oh excellent, was the improvement as expected ?
[14:25] <eroomde> the last week has had me doing printk instead of printf
[14:25] <Upu> what happens if you end up with 1kg of latex on the top of your chute ?
[14:25] <eroomde> my fingers have no gotton used to it and it's causing all sorts of probalems doing embedded
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> required the addition of a function and definition
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[14:26] <eroomde> Upu: you usually dont
[14:26] <Dan-K2VOL> yep, I can turn all the debug statements on at once finally
[14:26] <NigeyS> ah thats not to bad, for the ram savings you should be getting
[14:26] <Upu> I like that better but my cutes don't have any load bearing attachments at the top
[14:26] <Shuffty> Afternoon all..
[14:27] <Upu> hi Shuffty
[14:27] <NigeyS> hey Shuffty
[14:27] <Upu> ok I need a new chute
[14:27] <eroomde> it you have payload to parachute line of length x, and parachute to balloon line of length 0.5*x, then usually the parachute remains either fall between the parachute and ther payload, or they have a lower ballistic co-efficient than the other bits and flap around above
[14:27] <Upu> eroomde thanks that design sits alot better with me
[14:27] <eroomde> yep, me too
[14:27] <NigeyS> i'm gonna need a buyer for mine then!
[14:27] <Shuffty> :-) Had success with Nigeys code - managed to get a good sat lock in the garden and device is curently transmitting to dl-fldigi... :-)
[14:28] <Shuffty> Thanks Nigeys..
[14:28] <Elwell> and long lines are better than short ones?
[14:28] <eroomde> i'm biased
[14:28] <NigeyS> no probs, you getting a lock a bit quicker now ?
[14:28] <eroomde> i have been known to fly with 100m long lines
[14:28] <Upu> any suggestions where I get a parachute with a load attachment at the top ?
[14:28] <jgrahamc> That's great Shuffty
[14:28] <NigeyS> Upu, spherachutes ?
[14:28] <Upu> my code not work shenki ?
[14:28] <Shuffty> Its sat on the garage roof - seemed to get a lock in under a imn
[14:28] <NigeyS> or however its spelt
[14:28] <Shuffty> min
[14:28] <eroomde> Upu: lots do, try spherachutes or aeroconn systems
[14:28] <Upu> Shuffty even
[14:29] <Upu> thx er1k757_
[14:29] <Upu> meh autocomplete utter fail
[14:29] <NigeyS> lol
[14:29] <Dan-K2VOL> I've always used spherachutes + balloon attach rope option across the fill hole
[14:29] <Dan-K2VOL> spill hole
[14:29] <Shuffty> I'm sure it's my lack of ability upu - now I have it working, I'll save it to one side and continue to play... I'll look at why I couldnt get your code working in a min
[14:29] <eroomde> we've often put our pyros at the parachute apex too
[14:30] <NigeyS> brr that word pyro again
[14:30] <eroomde> tbh if you want stability there are better parachute designs than spherical
[14:30] <NigeyS> magnets! im going to try magnets! lol
[14:30] <Dan-K2VOL> NigeyS lol we are
[14:30] <eroomde> but i am more of a parachute nerd than is useful for hab so I think pragmatism often wins
[14:30] <hibby> fkin magnets? how do they work.
[14:31] <Dan-K2VOL> hopefully better than anything else hibby
[14:31] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL, please do, i saw it on the ukhas wiki but very little info!
[14:31] <NigeyS> or.. a strip of magnesium
[14:31] <NigeyS> hmm
[14:32] <Dan-K2VOL> found an online calculator for magnet separation force
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[14:33] <eroomde> electromagets could be cool in that they're failsafe
[14:33] <eroomde> i.e. a complete power failure will bring it down
[14:33] <eroomde> but... I'm not sure if that's actually useful
[14:33] <eroomde> picture show and tell btw: http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2596/nova16descent.jpg
[14:33] <Dan-K2VOL> and quite the excessive use of power!
[14:34] <eroomde> nova 16 on the way down - we saw it when we ran our own dynamic landing predictor in the car - it appeared out of the clouds on cue
[14:34] <NigeyS> nice pic eroomde !
[14:34] <NigeyS> thats whats left of the balloon on the left hand side of the pic ?
[14:34] <eroomde> but i was conna say, that's a ring-slot parachute with is quite a bit more stable as a design
[14:34] <eroomde> NigeyS: correct
[14:35] <NigeyS> looks quite a big shoot ?
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[14:36] <Dan-K2VOL> nice pic eroomde!
[14:36] <eroomde> she's about 1.75m inflated diameter
[14:37] <NigeyS> yup that comes under my "big" category!
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> it does look like a nice chute
[14:37] <Dan-K2VOL> how expensive?
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[14:38] <eroomde> it was a prototype. not sure how much they'd be to buy
[14:38] <eroomde> here's a bigger one which is clearer: http://deist.com/20-ring-slot-parachute-p-204.html
[14:39] <NigeyS> nice! if its good enough for a jet .. which it looks like...
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[14:41] <Upu> any UK suppliers for these parachutes
[14:41] <Upu> ?
[14:41] <eroomde> same parachute being tested: http://vimeo.com/6817362
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[14:42] <eroomde> Upu: not yet. they're very likely the kind of thing that turns up on surplus sites like aeroconn systems
[14:43] <NigeyS> hmm lovely chutes, im guessing theyre gonna be pretty heavy though ?
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[14:44] <eroomde> 900g with deployment bag
[14:45] <eroomde> you can see there's a spring-pilot chute that gets deployed first which pulls the main chute out (in its bag), yoinks off the deployment bag and then falls away
[14:45] <NigeyS> yup, very impressive, and less weight than i thought
[14:45] <eroomde> spring-pilot chutes are really useful things
[14:46] <eroomde> a good way of doing deployments if you can't do pre-deployed for some reason
[14:47] <eroomde> also if you find pyros a bit squiffy, these are a bit spendy but fantastically reliable
[14:47] <eroomde> http://www.monetti.net/en/actuatorsgasgenerator.htm
[14:47] <Upu> http://spherachutes.com/items/spherachutes/36-in-spherachute-36sp-detail.htm <- this chute has somewhere at the top to place a load on it ?
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[14:47] <eroomde> they're pyrotechnic pin-pushers. you apply a current and a little pin shoots out of the end with a travel of say 15mm and a lot of force behind it. could for actuating things
[14:48] <Upu> cut away is on my list of stuff for AVA2
[14:48] <eroomde> we used the DR 2006 C1
[14:49] <eroomde> if you Really Want It To Fire, i'd say they're worth it
[14:50] <jgrahamc> Upu: that's the chute I used on GAGA-1
[14:50] <Upu> jgrahamc did you buy it from the US ?
[14:50] <eroomde> if not stick with the biro-tube pyro or whatever you want to experiment with (magnets!)
[14:50] <jgrahamc> Yes
[14:51] <Upu> I'll get one ordered
[14:51] <Upu> more damn money :/
[14:51] <jgrahamc> When is your launch?
[14:51] <NigeyS> eroomde, they look to be ideal, how spendy is spendy ?
[14:51] <jgrahamc> eroomde: what did you do with the actuator?
[14:52] <jgrahamc> When are you planning to launch Upu?
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[14:52] <Upu> no idea
[14:52] <Upu> just waiting for Rob Harrison to see if he can get a NOTAM for Elvington
[14:53] <NigeyS> hi Zuph
[14:53] <jgrahamc> OK. Well, I could always lend you my chute.
[14:53] <eroomde> jgrahamc: used it to initiate parachute deployment in that video
[14:53] <jgrahamc> Neat
[14:53] <eroomde> it broke a shear-pin that was retaining the rear cap which was keeping the spring-pilot-chut compressed
[14:54] <Upu> OK cool jgrahamc, I've ordered two if they take along time to get here I might take you on that offer :)
[14:54] <eroomde> Upu: if it becomes a problem you're welcome to mosey down to cambridge
[14:55] <Upu> Cheers eroomde I might take you up on that offer too :) I've applied for a NOTAM at a place near Topcliffe for July
[14:55] <Upu> there is a festival going on that has a science theme
[14:55] <Upu> but I'd like to do a launch before that
[14:55] <eroomde> ah grand - that'll be a fun occassion to launch
[14:56] <Upu> (Please Describe Your Color Choice = NEON PINK x 6)
[14:56] <Upu> :)
[14:56] <eroomde> but yes you probably want to have one under your belt first!
[14:56] <eroomde> :)
[14:56] <Upu> Well I'm going to China in 3 weeks so I'll start looking for places to launch after that
[14:56] <eroomde> that's a trip!
[14:56] <Upu> yeah
[14:56] <Upu> looking forward to it
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[15:04] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[15:04] <SpeedEvil> email - "New Stella Artois Cidre only £6 at Asda"
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> Oh - it is spelled like that.
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> My bad.
[15:06] <jgrahamc> It's French, innit.
[15:07] <Elwell> pfft. interbrew / diago
[15:08] <eroomde> triple filtreyd for a smooz outcom
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[15:20] <fsphil> was there any progress getting the chase cars onto the map?
[15:23] <eroomde> Not sure. I remember we had them for Nova 8! I don't recall seeing a resolution to the hypothesised versioning issue though
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[15:30] <Upu> fsphil they work don't they ?
[15:30] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/tracker/
[15:31] <Upu> tests from our iphone chase car tracker app
[15:31] <Upu> can see my dog walk on there
[15:32] <Dan-K2VOL> what app?
[15:32] <Upu> one we made
[15:32] <Upu> runs on a 3GS/4
[15:32] <Dan-K2VOL> what does it do?
[15:32] <Dan-K2VOL> is it a DL-FLDigi decoder?
[15:32] <Upu> no
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[15:32] <Upu> just for chase car basically posts updates to the tracker site with chase car location
[15:33] <Dan-K2VOL> gotcha
[15:33] <Upu> nothing complex
[15:33] <fsphil> I heard it wasn't working on the main tracker
[15:33] <Upu> not tested it on that
[15:33] <fsphil> will give it a spin when I get home
[15:36] <fsphil> going to test the range of the new antenna
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[15:53] <Shuffty> How did the launch go today?
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> http://vimeo.com/21825724
[15:56] <Laurenceb_> wow
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[15:57] <fsphil> Shuffty, unexpectedly I think :)
[15:57] <MNSP> hello everyone :)
[15:58] <fsphil> hullo MNSP
[15:58] <MNSP> am especially looking forward to hadie :)
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[15:59] <MNSP> shuffty, got my zl today, thanks for the heads up
[16:00] <fsphil> me too
[16:00] <fsphil> though I haven't heard back from either member of the chase tean
[16:00] <fsphil> team*
[16:00] <MNSP> oh!
[16:00] <eroomde> oh good lord
[16:00] <eroomde> /usr/bin/python on Arch is Python3
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[16:01] <eroomde> no wonder this isn't working!
[16:01] <MNSP> if you were launching from cambridge I would volunteer my services and petrol
[16:01] <eroomde> we never had that HAB unconference
[16:01] <Shuffty> no prob mnsp - have you wired it up yet?
[16:01] <eroomde> we should
[16:02] <eroomde> a shin-dig in cambridge
[16:02] <fsphil> If I miss this launch window, I'm definitely flying to Cambridge
[16:02] <MNSP> lol, eroomde, sounds good ;)
[16:03] <MNSP> Umm, I think so shuffty, lol, wont know till fsphil launches hadies so I can track
[16:03] <Shuffty> fsphil when are you due to launch - saturday?
[16:03] <fsphil> sat or sunday -- sat has a more interesting track though, and stays further from the ocean
[16:03] <fsphil> sunday doesn't travel just as far
[16:04] <MNSP> what sort of time?
[16:04] <fsphil> up to the chase team really, I'm happy for either - but I'm not driving :)
[16:04] <Shuffty> MNSP - I have to do some minor cutting to the plastic covers - I'm interested to see if I've done it right or not! :-)
[16:04] <fsphil> 11:00 BST, or slightly after
[16:05] <fsphil> for variable amounts of slightly
[16:05] <Shuffty> I shall be attemting to track it fsphil - will find a big hill! :-)
[16:05] <MNSP> I know!!! I called the firm, they are up the road in MK, the guy there recomended drilling two little holes for the crosswires
[16:05] <MNSP> was not impressed
[16:06] <fsphil> it's 300 baud so I really don't know what kind of range the signal will still be decodable
[16:06] <fsphil> I was able to get fragments of apex-2's 300 baud strings, but that was just with the colinear
[16:06] <fsphil> a yagi probably would have handled it
[16:07] Action: MNSP :( wants to test drive new antenna
[16:07] <Shuffty> Your in ireland arent you phil?
[16:07] <fsphil> n.ireland, yea
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[16:07] <Shuffty> Cool - I might even take a trip to the ocean then :-)
[16:07] <MNSP> whaere are you shuffty?
[16:07] <Shuffty> Manchester
[16:08] <Shuffty> Where are you MNSP
[16:08] <Shuffty> ?
[16:08] <MNSP> Luton Town
[16:08] <MNSP> :D
[16:08] <Shuffty> :-)
[16:08] <Shuffty> lol
[16:08] <MNSP> I lived in Manchester years back
[16:08] <MNSP> around longsight
[16:09] <Shuffty> Longsight :-|
[16:09] <Shuffty> :-)
[16:09] <Shuffty> lol
[16:09] <MNSP> lol
[16:09] <fsphil> Rob, M0DTS was able to receive hadie:1's signal and he lives in Yarm, on the east coast
[16:09] <fsphil> but then he has an epic antenna setup
[16:10] <MNSP> lol, epic, I have a shiny new 7 ele yagi
[16:10] <fsphil> I think his was a 22-el :)
[16:11] <fsphil> I'll probably stick with a small whip for this flight
[16:11] <MNSP> lol, I has element envy
[16:12] <fsphil> keep the yagi for direction finding
[16:13] <MNSP> well I'm using tracking to get experience before I launch my own
[16:14] <fsphil> bbl, heading home. woo :)
[16:14] <MNSP> see you later
[16:14] <MNSP> shuffty, so how have you got your wired up at the moment?
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[16:19] <Shuffty> I'll email you a photo if you like - gimme a min.
[16:22] <SamSilver> cheers
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[16:52] <Shuffty> Nigeys - whats left to do now in your code - just the send_sms timer?
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[16:56] <NigeyS> all finished
[16:56] <NigeyS> just needs a tidy up, some commenting, then a nice long test
[17:02] <Shuffty> Hmm all finished you say.. :-)
[17:02] <Shuffty> Don't forget to backup!
[17:02] <Shuffty> :-)
[17:03] <Shuffty> Hey, my altitude is showing up as -48, when in reality its about 37... is this due to gps accuracy do you think?
[17:04] <Shuffty> Or is google earth getting my alt wrong?
[17:04] <NigeyS> oh mine constantly think im at -49m
[17:05] <NigeyS> altitude is very flakey when stationary, its a common feature of the gps modules, it'll be fine when you launch
[17:05] <Shuffty> Cool.. I think I'll load it into the car and give it a run around the block later to see if it settles..
[17:06] <NigeyS> aye that might help, mine does eventually settle to 17M which is about right
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[17:07] <jonsowman> you need quite a few satellites to get a half decent alt reading
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[17:07] <jonsowman> even with loads the VDOP is ~5m at best
[17:07] <NigeyS> yup, my lassen seems to like locking on to 4 sats and no more
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[17:09] <Shuffty> Is that the last digit before the check?
[17:09] <Shuffty> Mine seems to like 4 too!
[17:10] <jonsowman> Apex was on 7 or 8 for most its flight
[17:11] <Shuffty> I have a feeling the lassen isnt up to much as a gps...
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[17:14] <Shuffty> So how did the skypod launch go?Was it tracked and recovered ok?
[17:15] <jonsowman> Shuffty: I'm a real fan of the lassen, as I've said many times
[17:15] <Shuffty> :-)
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[17:16] <Shuffty> Is that sarcasm, or do you really rate it?
[17:17] <jonsowman> not sarcasm, I really do like it
[17:17] <Upu> Sweet
[17:17] <Upu> I am now 2E0UPU :)
[17:17] <jonsowman> congrats Upu :)
[17:17] <Shuffty> :-)
[17:17] <jgrahamc> Congrats
[17:17] <jonsowman> get the advanced one booked!
[17:17] <Shuffty> Woo
[17:17] <Shuffty> :-)
[17:17] <Shuffty> You done your license?
[17:18] <Upu> yeah just applied for the call sign
[17:18] <Upu> I got M6UPU and 2E0UPU
[17:18] <Shuffty> I want to do it... how hard was it?
[17:18] <Upu> Foundation is fairly easy
[17:18] <Upu> you may need to study a but for the Intermediate
[17:18] <Shuffty> define 'fairly'..
[17:18] <jonsowman> it's a bit subjective
[17:18] <Upu> well I got 100% and I'm thick
[17:18] <Shuffty> lol
[17:18] <Upu> depends what you've done before
[17:19] <Shuffty> Hmm - I might need to study up..
[17:19] <Shuffty> Ask me a question from the test... :)
[17:19] <Upu> intermediate or foundation ?
[17:20] <Shuffty> foundation
[17:20] <Shuffty> !
[17:20] <jonsowman> there are practice tests on the net Shuffty
[17:20] <Upu> err what frequency can't you operate on with 100km of London (you get a sheet with it on)
[17:21] <Shuffty> [whistle] ... I'll get my coar
[17:21] <Shuffty> coat
[17:21] <Shuffty> :-)
[17:21] <Upu> ohms law
[17:21] <Upu> resistor codes
[17:21] <Upu> health and safely, licensing conditions etc
[17:21] <Upu> oh they even tell you how to use a radio
[17:21] <Shuffty> :-)
[17:23] Action: Elwell should work out how to get his
[17:23] <Elwell> slightly more hassle as living in .fr
[17:26] <LazyLeopard> Foundation has been passed by 8-year-olds; probably relatively bright 8-year-olds, but nobody who frequents this channel should have any trouble with it....
[17:27] <LazyLeopard> It's just the tedious business of getting all the proactical stuff signed off that makes it at all complicated.
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[17:28] <Shuffty> "nobody who frequents this channel should have any trouble with it" I'm still here you know! :-)
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[17:29] <Elwell> yeah - like attending a club
[17:29] <LazyLeopard> Seriously, the hassle is getting the practicals sorted, and the easy way to do that is to find a course.
[17:29] <Elwell> agreed
[17:30] <Elwell> I wouldn't mind if they did an intensive jobbie, same as I have for VHF/GMDSS stuff
[17:30] <LazyLeopard> Elwell: No idea what the rules in .fr are, but the system's certainly different.
[17:30] <fsphil> Resistor colour codes! (for intermediate anyway)
[17:31] <jonsowman> there are certain unmentionable mnemonics for remembering those
[17:32] Action: Elwell turns off google safe search and goes hunting
[17:33] <Elwell> right. it's officially overcast n cool, so fondue tonight
[17:34] <LazyLeopard> Main problem I have with those colour codes is figuring out what colour the resistor manufacturer thought that band was. Sometimes yellow looks orange, and orange looks brown, and blue looks grey, and...
[17:34] <jonsowman> hehe yes
[17:34] <jonsowman> I know that problem
[17:34] <LazyLeopard> It's what DMMs were made for. ;)
[17:34] <jonsowman> yup
[17:34] <fsphil> oops .. I've mis-calculated how difficult rg58 is to turn sharp corners
[17:35] <fsphil> gonna be a tight fit inside this payload box
[17:38] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Tha magic minimum radius of curvature strikes again. ;)
[17:40] <fsphil> curses!
[17:41] <jonsowman> how are predictions fsphil ? reckon you'll be launching?
[17:41] <fsphil> Saturday is moving further away -- soo bit iffy on that, Sunday is more likely
[17:41] <jonsowman> ah great
[17:42] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[17:42] <fsphil> saturday: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a6c6daa0543e194939de11c7281acb942a762322
[17:42] <fsphil> loooong drive :)
[17:43] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[17:43] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[17:43] <jonsowman> I'll put HADIE in there once you've got a date/time for me fsphil :)
[17:44] <fsphil> yea - I don't want to get hopes up just yet :)
[17:44] <fsphil> though everything seems to be working so far
[17:44] <fsphil> still to do the range test
[17:44] <fsphil> hopefully do that tonight
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[17:45] <mattltm-alt> Hi all :)
[17:45] <jonsowman> good stuff :)
[17:45] <fsphil> g'day mattltm-alt
[17:45] <mattltm-alt> Hi fsphil :0
[17:46] <fsphil> sunday: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=adec7c43e5f441dc05ee9fcb6fb948595fa4bee9
[17:46] <fsphil> nice thing about that is it's not far over the border, I should still get net access
[17:46] <mattltm-alt> Oh. nice.
[17:47] <fsphil> also it's moving away, so good chance for a distance record if someone has a good yagi setup down there
[17:47] <jonsowman> looks good
[17:47] <fsphil> just need to chase the chase guys
[17:48] <mattltm-alt> fsphil: I don't know what yo mean ;)
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[17:56] <fsphil> ooh there's a balloon in Belgium
[17:57] <mattltm-alt> Im stuck at work tonight :(
[17:57] <fsphil> those evil peoples!
[17:57] <fsphil> all night?
[17:57] <jonsowman> there was an email to the list about that some days ago
[17:57] <fsphil> that's right
[17:58] <fsphil> early july
[17:58] <fsphil> I'd be pushing it receiving that flight :)
[17:59] <LazyLeopard> Looks like it's gone for a walk, or something. ;)
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[17:59] <mattltm-alt> Till 21:00 :(
[17:59] <Shuffty> A balloon up now? .. :-)
[17:59] <fsphil> Shuffty, nah it's on the ground. looks like they're testing
[18:00] <fsphil> in the middle of a field for some reason
[18:03] <mattltm-alt> LazyLeopard: Are you going to Kempton?
[18:05] <Shuffty> :-)
[18:11] <mattltm-alt> Bored bored bored :(
[18:12] <mattltm-alt> There has to somthing fun that I can do whilst staying at reception.
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> Watch kittens on youtube?
[18:13] <fsphil> Attach lasers to a pan/tilt system?
[18:13] <mattltm-alt> SpeedEvil: Good idea.
[18:13] <mattltm-alt> fsphil: Not after what happened last time ;P
[18:13] <fsphil> aah
[18:13] <fsphil> poor kitty
[18:14] <Elwell> mattltm-alt: and if successful, reduce em in size to attach to fish (you *do* have a fishtank at reception, right?)
[18:14] <mattltm-alt> The court order prevents me from going within 20' of a laser.
[18:15] <mattltm-alt> Elwell: We dont athough we do have an african land snail and one of our tenants has a bearded dragon.
[18:15] <fsphil> Order in pizza
[18:15] <mattltm-alt> Not sure that a giant snail with a laser attached to it shouts "evil genius".
[18:16] <mattltm-alt> fsphil: KFC when im finished :)
[18:16] <fsphil> fear the slow smiley destruction! muhahaa!
[18:16] <LazyLeopard> mattltm-alt: Possibly, but I've also got to be in Dulwich by 2pm...
[18:16] <fsphil> Nice .. Just don't tease the chickens with them
[18:16] <mattltm-alt> Lol.
[18:29] <mattltm-alt> Things are getting desperate... http://kittenwar.com here I come!
[18:30] <jonsowman> i liked this http://placekitten.com/
[18:30] <mattltm-alt> lol. Nice.
[18:38] <fsphil> that is bad
[18:39] <fsphil> I should stick that on our 404 page
[18:40] <fsphil> "While you are waiting .... here's some kittens!"
[18:40] <NigeyS> meh
[18:40] Action: NigeyS kicks soldering iron
[18:41] <fsphil> poor iron
[18:42] Action: fsphil passes NigeyS some flux and some low abrasive brass wool
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[18:42] <NigeyS> it refuses to get the ntype brass nipple hot enough :(
[18:43] Nick change: Hiena -> Hiena_vas
[18:45] <Hiena_vas> http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autotwb1348.html
[18:46] <W0OTM> iHAB-4 Payload images are posted : http://www.ihabproject.com/iHAB-4/
[18:49] <NigeyS> looking good W0OTM :D
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[19:04] <Hiena_vas> Argh...Never, ever ask the peoples honest opinion. Made a specification and preliminary study for a cheap, single seat ultralight glider. Sent to a dozen people for review and fund raising. The results: Until now, i got request for an engine, second seat, retractable gear, and carbon composite fuselage option, one guy requested additional wingspan since he is fancy for the 15 meter class, and an other for the heated cockpit. Somehow non
[19:04] <Hiena_vas> e of them noticed the targeted 1000EUR material cost...
[19:06] <W0OTM> NigeyS: thanks
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[19:08] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[19:09] <LazyLeopard> Hiena_vas: I bet if you sent them all a list of features and asked them to pick th etop N, half of them would leave off "wings"... ;)
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[19:17] <Hiena_vas> LazyLeopard, yup. I'm still ponders when will they order extra cheese on it. On the bright side, the guys from the university looks interested to use it as student project, and the club chairman offered workshop space.
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[19:26] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: @KD8NJZ This is TRUE! I'll do my best to jump on the radio between the #arhab blding. Can't promise. @ me if you wanna sched #hamradio [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/58612120065032192]
[19:28] <griffonbot> @W0OTM: #hamradio #arhab iHAB-4 Payload Photos are posted - http://www.ihabproject.com/iHAB-4 [http://twitter.com/W0OTM/status/58612586207387648]
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[19:40] <griffonbot> Received email: John GM8OTI "[UKHAS] Re: Insurance"
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[19:45] <LazyLeopard> Ah. Just noticed griffonbot has stopped quoting full email addresses. Thanks, whoever fixed that. :)
[19:45] <damien7579> good evening
[19:47] <damien7579> for prototyping and quick testing of the NTX2 Transmitter can I just use the NRX2 receiver + power and push the output of pin 6 (AF) audio to a PC soundcard ?
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[19:54] <griffonbot> Received email: John GM8OTI "[UKHAS] Re: Tracking hadie:3"
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[20:06] <fsphil> damien7579, depends on how you plan to receive the data during the flight
[20:06] <fsphil> the NRX2 is an FM receiver .. the normal method here is to use an amateur radio in USB mode
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[20:08] <damien7579> using one of the recommended radios like the Yaesu FT-790R II or newer
[20:08] <damien7579> we are borrowing one nearer the launch date so want to test transmission quickly and cheaply before then
[20:08] <NigeyS> www.amateurdeepfield.org/Antenna.jpg
[20:08] <NigeyS> wont win any awards for neatness, but it works!
[20:09] <damien7579> so looking for a quick and easy hack to get a receiver working
[20:09] <griffonbot> Received email: Philip Heron "Re: [UKHAS] Tracking hadie:3"
[20:11] <fsphil> looking well NigeyS
[20:11] <fsphil> mine's looking a bit .. cheap :)
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[20:12] <fsphil> damien7579, tricky. for the nrx2 to output anything useful for your soundcard, you'll have to be sending audio into the ntx2
[20:13] <damien7579> ok. tricky indeed.
[20:13] <damien7579> might just have to borrow the real thing sooner for testing
[20:13] <fsphil> I suspect that would be the easiest way
[20:14] <fsphil> you can of course transmit data between an nrx2 and ntx2 directly, but not in a way that dl-fldigi can work with
[20:14] <damien7579> ok. thanks for input fsphil.
[20:15] <damien7579> Im building most of the flight computer abroad and brining it over to UK for final placement in payload box ready for launch in may.
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[20:16] <fsphil> silly computer
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[20:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Bowen "[UKHAS] ICAO payload separation force discussion"
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[20:33] <NigeyS> lol im gonna add up how much that antenna has cost phil
[20:33] <NigeyS> £22.48
[20:34] <Upu> I wouldn't
[20:35] <NigeyS> lol upu, not cheap ! its all your fault!
[20:35] <Upu> sure there are cheaper antennas :)
[20:36] <NigeyS> yeah but these look beastly and stuff ..
[20:40] <fsphil> mine cost ... how much is 30cm of rg58? :) (not from maplin!)
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> One billion dollars!
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> ;satekkute cabvke; us faeao and wiaopowekl
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Satellite cable is cheap and works well.
[20:43] <natrium42> was that welsh?
[20:45] <fsphil> not random enough for welsh
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[20:51] <NigeyS> phil, how the heck did you make 4 radials with the braid from rg58 .. that takes some doing!
[20:52] <fsphil> yea took ages
[20:53] <fsphil> and by the time I'd untwisted it half of it had fallen out
[20:53] <NigeyS> ouch, you must have the patients of a saint
[20:53] <fsphil> it would be a lot easier just to solder four wires to the braid
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> haha fsphil, sorry to hear that
[20:53] <NigeyS> true
[20:53] <NigeyS> hey Dan
[20:53] <Dan-K2VOL> hi Nigey
[20:54] <fsphil> Dan-K2VOL, looks good though :)
[20:54] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[20:54] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5431825038/
[20:55] <NigeyS> schweeet!
[20:55] <fsphil> the radials will be stuck down with a bit of duct tape
[20:55] <NigeyS> do you just let them dangle like that or do you fix them so their straight on the payload box ?
[20:55] <NigeyS> hehe
[20:55] <fsphil> I readz your mind
[20:55] <NigeyS> thats scarey dude
[20:56] <fsphil> the main element should survive even a hard landing
[20:56] <NigeyS> mine will crumble and snap
[20:58] <griffonbot> Received email: Rick Hewett "[UKHAS] Re: Tracking hadie:3"
[20:59] <fsphil> the 869mhz antenna should be small enough that it may fit inside the polystyrene box -- have a completely enclosed payload
[21:01] <fsphil> aurora from the iss: http://www.flickr.com/photos/magisstra/5618082181/in/contacts/
[21:03] <NigeyS> that always impresses me
[21:03] <NigeyS> and the lightning they get to see
[21:04] <fsphil> yea -- though I'd miss not hearing the thunder
[21:04] <fsphil> but a small price to pay :)
[21:04] <NigeyS> hmm how do i add an and stament to my sms counter? so i can do if count > 0 and altitude is less than 1000m .. send it ..
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[21:04] <NigeyS> statement*
[21:04] <fsphil> &&
[21:05] <fsphil> count > 0 && altitude < 1000
[21:05] <fsphil> something like that
[21:05] <NigeyS> oh cool
[21:06] <fsphil> http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/lesson2.html
[21:06] <NigeyS> o merci
[21:06] <NigeyS> got to find the tingps variable for altitude, it doesnt use alt .. that'd be too simple!
[21:07] <fsphil> it'll be on the snprintf line whatever it is
[21:08] <NigeyS> yup got it, gps.altitude
[21:11] <NigeyS> if(count % 20 == 0 && gps.altitude() < 10000 )
[21:11] <NigeyS> {
[21:11] <NigeyS> send_sms(msg + 4);
[21:11] <NigeyS> }
[21:11] <NigeyS> should do it
[21:16] <Shuffty> :-)
[21:16] <NigeyS> unless ..
[21:16] <NigeyS> hm
[21:17] <NigeyS> we divide the alt by 100 to create the string, is it going to grab the altitude before or after weve divided it ?
[21:21] <fsphil> you divide the value returned by altitude(), not the actual altitude
[21:21] <fsphil> so you'll need to divide it again, or multiply the value you're comparing it against
[21:21] <NigeyS> okies
[21:22] <stilldavid> w00t, balloons just delivered
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[21:22] <NigeyS> yey stilldavid
[21:22] <stilldavid> faster than I thought, really
[21:22] <NigeyS> evening james
[21:23] <fsphil> heh, I read that as "tastier than I thought"
[21:23] Action: fsphil needs glasses
[21:24] <NigeyS> lol
[21:24] <stilldavid> mmm, latex
[21:24] Action: NigeyS runs from stilldavid
[21:24] <stilldavid> oh, NigeyS about geiger counters
[21:24] <stilldavid> we're waiting on stock ourselves :(
[21:25] <stilldavid> I have one on my desk that's going on the next payload, though
[21:25] <NigeyS> ya i saw just after i sent the msg, i think the japan issue made them sell rather quick? lol
[21:25] <stilldavid> definitely. we have a heck of a lot backordered, too
[21:25] <NigeyS> oo, will you let me kow if it cuts out at XX temp or XX alt ?
[21:25] <jcoxon> evening all
[21:25] <NigeyS> know*
[21:25] <stilldavid> will certainly do
[21:25] <NigeyS> much appreciated :D
[21:26] <NigeyS> how's you james ?
[21:26] <stilldavid> there's a glass bit in the tube that's apparently quite fragile, so I sort of expect it to break on descent/impact
[21:26] <stilldavid> but time will tell. aiming for a launch in the next <month
[21:26] <NigeyS> bubblewrap! lol
[21:26] <jcoxon> NigeyS, good thanks
[21:26] <jcoxon> back from long day
[21:27] <NigeyS> :( time to rest then !
[21:27] <jcoxon> indeed
[21:27] <jcoxon> day 12 tomorrow
[21:28] <jcoxon> then freedom
[21:28] <NigeyS> day 12? do you do xx days on then xx days off ?
[21:29] <jcoxon> sadly not
[21:29] <jcoxon> just sat/sun and i'll be back next week
[21:29] <jcoxon> and am on nights over easter weekend
[21:29] <NigeyS> ah that really sucks!
[21:30] <jcoxon> oh well
[21:30] <Shuffty> I've just decided to take a few weeks off... :-P
[21:30] <jcoxon> i had fun today
[21:31] <jgrahamc> I sent the beacon back today jcoxon
[21:33] <jcoxon> oh thanks jgrahamc
[21:34] <jcoxon> so when is GAGA-2
[21:35] <jgrahamc> Dunno. Haven't decided what exciting thing I'd want to do on GAGA-2 yet.
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[21:37] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:37] <jcoxon> lots of possibilities
[21:37] <jcoxon> image transmission is fun
[21:40] <Upu> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/04/14/2028235/High-Schoolers-Push-Down-Price-of-Near-Space-Photography?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+UK
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[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:42] <Upu> evening
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
[21:45] <jgrahamc> Yes, SSTV or something similar would be fun
[21:45] <jcoxon> fsphil's SSDV is good too
[21:45] <jcoxon> slightly easier to implement
[21:46] <jgrahamc> I should take a look at that
[21:46] <jcoxon> i think you'll like the technical cleverness
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> jonsowman here?
[21:54] <jgrahamc> Ooh. Reed-Solomon codes.
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[21:54] <jcoxon> jgrahamc, said you would
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> do you need Reed-Solomon for SSTV?
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> If you're doing some sort of digital compression - then practrically yes
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:56] <SpeedEvil> Otherwise one bit error wrecks your picture.
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> because they used that on Voyager 2 IIRC
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> when it approached Uranus
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[22:09] <fsphil> hopefully this next flight will be a good ssdv test
[22:09] <jcoxon> fsphil, you txing any 50baud?
[22:09] <fsphil> not this time
[22:09] <jcoxon> :-(
[22:09] <jcoxon> 300baud is going to be tough
[22:10] <jcoxon> especially at 620km range
[22:10] <fsphil> I got fragments from apex-ii's 300 baud through the colinear
[22:10] <fsphil> with a good yagi + error correction it might work
[22:10] <jcoxon> bbiab
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6380/imag0031t.jpg
[22:11] <fsphil> mmm winegums
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[22:12] <W0OTM> Howdy
[22:13] <NigeyS> hey W0OTM
[22:13] <W0OTM> is there a video of the launch this AM
[22:13] <W0OTM> on youtube yet?
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[22:14] <NigeyS> hmm not sure actually
[22:14] <W0OTM> booooo
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> hey W0OTM how are you?
[22:15] <W0OTM> im good you?
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I'm good again
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:15] <W0OTM> good good
[22:17] <W0OTM> Lunar_Lander: got the payload photos posted for iHAB-4
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> let me check
[22:17] <W0OTM> things are coming along well I think
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> cool the cutdown video!
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> what is the science this time?
[22:19] <W0OTM> going to test the cutdown module
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[22:19] <W0OTM> will cutdown around 80k ft
[22:20] <W0OTM> also trying some different antenna designs for the HF and VHF transmitters
[22:20] <W0OTM> the 2 payloads will be separated by 35ft of line, and will double as the halfwave antenna for the 20m xmtr
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> no CanisterLabs?
[22:22] <W0OTM> Not this go around, at least yet. I do have some space in Payload #2 for some if people get them to me in the next coupe weeks
[22:22] <W0OTM> once guy wants to fly a cockroach
[22:22] <W0OTM> to see it if will liev
[22:22] <W0OTM> live*
[22:22] <NigeyS> ew
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> but didn't you forbid insects?
[22:23] <W0OTM> yes
[22:23] <W0OTM> thats why I havnt done it yet
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> and the film from iHAB-2 still lying around?
[22:24] <W0OTM> I returned it to the ham that owns it
[22:24] <W0OTM> I havn't talked to him since
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> well I hope it works :)
[22:25] <W0OTM> diddo
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> did you plan further already?
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> like iHAB-5 and so on?
[22:26] <W0OTM> oh yeah
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[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw I am impressed at the frequency of your launches
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[22:26] <W0OTM> We will be starting some low altitude tests on our next project
[22:26] <Lunar_Lander> you are planning for your fifth launch in total now
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> and you already had three stratosphere flights and the one distance flight
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[22:27] <W0OTM> LOL, well the distance flight wasn't planned :)
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> it is a bit like Strato-Lab
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> Strato-Lab had low, intermediate and high flights
[22:28] <W0OTM> Where are you located?
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> and the high flights were done in their spherical pressure gondola
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> thus they were also sometimes labelled "Strato-Lab High"
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> north-west germany
[22:28] <W0OTM> ya, very cool!
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> btw Strato-Lab
[22:28] <W0OTM> wife called for dinner, be back in a bit
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> the only institution from that you can get the reports seems to be NTIS
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> and they're expensive
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> good appetite!
[22:36] <jcoxon> hmmm fsphil for some reason dl-fldigi isn't compiling for me
[22:36] <fsphil> ooh where's it stopping?
[22:36] <jcoxon> well i had to re-install my macport
[22:36] <jcoxon> undefined symbols
[22:37] <jcoxon> Fl_Text_Selection::position
[22:37] <fsphil> hmm
[22:37] <jcoxon> well there is a lot more
[22:38] <jcoxon> fsphil, http://pastebin.com/qDHYtWvt
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[22:42] <fsphil> that's odd
[22:42] <jcoxon> yea
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[22:44] <jcoxon> i'm using fltk 1.3
[22:45] <fsphil> it's like Fl_Text_Selection is not being linked
[22:45] <jcoxon> i'll try fltk 1.1
[22:46] <fsphil> it's 1.1 here on fedora 14
[22:50] <fsphil> yea it looks like some functions have been removed from Fl_Text_Selection
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[22:50] <jcoxon> yeah fltk1.1 work
[22:50] <jcoxon> s
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[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[23:06] <fsphil> night Lunar!
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[23:16] <NigeyS> fsphil, shagis almost done lol
[23:16] <fsphil> record time too lol
[23:16] <Shuffty> Night all... time for some sleep..
[23:17] <NigeyS> gotr bored.. lol
[23:17] <NigeyS> nn Shuffty dude
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[23:23] <fsphil> heading too
[23:26] <NigeyS> nn dudey
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 15 2011