highaltitude.log.20110413

[00:10] <natrium42> any brits awake?
[00:11] <SpeedEvil> maybe
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[00:13] <NigeyS> im welsh, do i count ?
[00:14] <natrium42> dunno, do you feel british? XD
[00:14] Action: SpeedEvil is scottish, but mostly feels British.
[00:14] <NigeyS> depends on the day of the week..:p
[00:14] <NigeyS> wassup anyway dude ?
[00:14] <NigeyS> didn't know you were scottish SpeedEvil
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> I am multiracial. My dad was Scottish, my mum English.
[00:17] <NigeyS> ahh
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> Lived in scotland all my life.
[00:17] <SpeedEvil> Well - I visited england twice.
[00:18] <NigeyS> ive not been to england much, never been to scotland .. yet .. went to dublin .. that was nice
[00:18] <SpeedEvil> Family holidays wirth _way_ too muchdrama.
[00:18] <NigeyS> oh i know the feeling!
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[00:30] <natrium42> d'oh, he left
[00:31] Action: SpeedEvil is still british.
[00:31] <natrium42> i just sent a person this way
[00:31] <natrium42> she wants to test cubesat electronics on a HAB
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[00:32] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:32] <natrium42> wasn't somebody here who did some cubesat stuff?
[00:32] <natrium42> i forgot who
[00:33] <SpeedEvil> hienna?
[00:36] <hibby> natrium42: yo
[00:37] <hibby> we're using our student HAB projects as, hopefully, cubesat payload testing
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> Sounds like fun.
[00:46] <natrium42> hibby: cool
[00:46] <natrium42> bbl, going to richard stallman talk
[00:46] <hibby> nice
[00:46] <hibby> im away to bed
[00:46] <hibby> :)
[00:46] <hibby> 2am up here in glasgow
[00:47] <hibby> on reflection, it'll be that time in the rest of the uk too. also, 1.45... we're not in a time bubble of +15min...
[00:47] <hibby> think I've been up too long, I'm talking pish now.
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> I don't bother, I just always talk pish.
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> Simplifies things.
[00:50] <Darkside> hmm
[00:50] <Darkside> ISS pass in 20 min
[00:50] <Darkside> but is the battery still dead? >_>
[00:50] <SpeedEvil> Battery?
[00:50] <Sab67034> hi
[00:51] <Darkside> on the ARISSat-1 satellite, which is currently inside ISS
[00:51] <Darkside> they've got it hooked to an external antenna, and are meant to be broadcasting beacons
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[00:53] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[00:54] <SpeedEvil> Clarkes vision - come at last!
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[01:38] <SAIDias> howdy
[01:38] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
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[06:50] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
[06:50] <fsphil> pong -- good timing
[06:50] <jcoxon> fixed that issue
[06:51] <jcoxon> it was really stupid
[06:51] <jcoxon> so i was declaring lat and lon outside the main loop
[06:51] <jcoxon> and it was calculating the encoded version
[06:51] <jcoxon> then next loop it would encode it again on top of this
[06:51] <jcoxon> hence the crazy changes
[06:51] <fsphil> aaah
[06:52] <jcoxon> fixed now
[06:52] <fsphil> have you run it again?
[06:52] <jcoxon> yeah i'm connected to the serial port so i can see the output
[06:52] <jcoxon> the float calcs are stable
[06:52] <jcoxon> i'll pop it outside for a bit now
[06:52] <jcoxon> see if anything comes through before work
[06:52] <fsphil> are they the expected values?
[06:53] <jcoxon> GPGGA,000018,8654.9404,N,03625.911,W,1,05,02.0,29520.6,M,-36.8,M,,*79
[06:54] <fsphil> NMEA: Lat 8654.94000, Lng 3625.91000
[06:54] <fsphil> pefect
[06:54] <jcoxon> just need to run it through the spot system
[06:54] <fsphil> you fixed the padding on longitude too, nice
[06:58] <jcoxon> should they be 3 decimal places?
[07:00] <fsphil> I think most gps use four decimal places ddmm.mmmm
[07:01] <jcoxon> okay i'll increase that
[07:02] <jcoxon> SPoT outside now
[07:02] <jcoxon> now we wait...
[07:04] <fsphil> brb
[07:14] <fsphil> back
[07:14] <natrium42> hey all
[07:15] <jcoxon> oooo something is through
[07:15] <fsphil> morning natrium42
[07:15] <natrium42> hiya, fsphil
[07:15] <jcoxon> 86.91566 -36.43185
[07:15] <natrium42> went to another richard stallman talk
[07:15] <fsphil> ah sweet, that looks spot on jcoxon -- lemme decode
[07:15] <natrium42> hehe, he refused to sign my friends backpack
[07:16] <natrium42> because it had ubuntu sign on it
[07:16] <jcoxon> natrium42, hehe
[07:16] <natrium42> :D
[07:17] <natrium42> jcoxon: you should time your launch to coincide with my trip to london!
[07:17] <jcoxon> i am...
[07:17] <jcoxon> when is your trip :-p
[07:17] <natrium42> orly?
[07:18] <fsphil> Decoded: Lat 54.6503, Lng 173.2469, Alt 29479
[07:19] <fsphil> hmm
[07:19] <jcoxon> the lon is inversed
[07:19] <jcoxon> flightlat = 54.6506, flightlon = -6.7523;
[07:19] <natrium42> jcoxon: may 14 - may 16
[07:19] <fsphil> Decoded: Lat 54.6503, Lng 6.7531, Alt 29520
[07:19] <jcoxon> awesome
[07:19] <fsphil> ooh the decoder isn't expecting negative values
[07:20] <fsphil> is that altitude right?
[07:20] <jcoxon> natrium42, yup
[07:20] <jcoxon> i'm off that weekend
[07:20] <natrium42> \o/
[07:20] <jcoxon> don't have any commitments
[07:20] <jcoxon> and i've got the week before off as well
[07:20] <natrium42> hopefully the weather cooperates too
[07:20] <jcoxon> fsphil, 29520
[07:20] <jcoxon> natrium42, indeed
[07:21] <fsphil> woo!
[07:21] <natrium42> jcoxon: are you playing with spot?
[07:21] <jcoxon> natrium42, fsphil and i have managed to encode lat/lon and alt into one transmission
[07:21] <SamSilver> he is showing off with his spot ;-p
[07:21] <jcoxon> sorry SamSilver
[07:21] <jcoxon> :-)
[07:22] <natrium42> jcoxon: how?
[07:22] <fsphil> SamSilver, I wonder if you could setup your own ground station
[07:22] <natrium42> did you lose precision?
[07:22] <jcoxon> natrium42, magic
[07:22] <natrium42> O_O
[07:22] <jcoxon> a small amount yes
[07:22] <natrium42> using timing?
[07:23] <natrium42> proportion of a full minute, say
[07:23] <jcoxon> natrium42, probably best fsphil explain - he developed the scheme
[07:23] <SamSilver> fsphil that might be above and beyond my capabilities
[07:23] <fsphil> it reduces latitude (0-90) and longitude (0-180) to 0-1
[07:24] <fsphil> then adds two digits of the altitude to each
[07:24] <natrium42> aah, longitude to only 1 degree???
[07:25] <fsphil> yea, so the latitude and longitude are always < 0
[07:25] <SamSilver> afk
[07:25] <fsphil> so 45 lat becomes 0.5
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[07:26] <fsphil> if the altitude was 23456 I could add the 34 to the latitude, to become 34.5
[07:26] <jcoxon> fsphil, are you just tacking on the '2' at teh beginning?
[07:26] <fsphil> yep .. that needs to be encoded in the hemisphere flags
[07:26] <jcoxon> thats already done
[07:27] <jcoxon> but not on this test
[07:27] <jcoxon> okay so i think you've cracked it
[07:27] <jcoxon> another point just came through - identical
[07:27] <fsphil> needs plenty of testing :)
[07:28] <fsphil> I'd be worried about certain weird conditions causing the altitude values to come through differently
[07:28] <jcoxon> well this is only a backup
[07:28] <fsphil> true
[07:28] <fsphil> any odd values could be discarded
[07:28] <jcoxon> and i think we should develop a system where we eyeball the data before it gets posted
[07:28] <fsphil> if you don't mind loosing some altitude accuracy you could probably keep the n/s e/w flags
[07:29] <jcoxon> nah we might as well use them
[07:29] <jcoxon> i think crossing the equator is not going to happen
[07:29] <jcoxon> or at least we'll be prepared for it :-p
[07:29] <jcoxon> and if say we have a foater and we lose contact for 3 hours
[07:29] <jcoxon> it'll be good to know at what level it is
[07:30] <fsphil> yea
[07:30] <jcoxon> right time for work
[07:30] <jcoxon> bbl
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[07:43] <natrium42> fsphil: you can just run through all possible values
[07:43] <natrium42> there are not too many
[07:45] <fsphil> floating point though
[07:45] <fsphil> well, in saying that it's fixed point
[07:45] <natrium42> nono, spot encodes latutude as 3 bytes
[07:45] <natrium42> same with longitude
[07:46] <natrium42> so it's 0..2^24
[07:46] <fsphil> not top bad
[07:46] <fsphil> too*
[07:46] <natrium42> that's what i did too to test the kind of rounding that is done
[07:47] <natrium42> by the findmespot servers
[07:48] <fsphil> you have the conversion code anywhere?
[07:48] <natrium42> yeah, let me check
[07:49] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/projects/spot/spot-decode.c
[07:49] <natrium42> that one is to encode lat/lon
[07:49] <natrium42> let me see if i can find my testing code...
[07:51] <natrium42> need to reboot to linux
[07:55] <fsphil> that's able to recover the original bits exactly?
[07:55] <fsphil> bytes
[08:00] <natrium42> fsphil: http://pastie.org/1790141
[08:00] <natrium42> yes
[08:00] <natrium42> i sent some specially prepared lat/lon combinations to test various assumptions with the server
[08:01] <natrium42> and this code matches what the spot servers do
[08:02] <fsphil> thanks -- I'll throw something together to try all the combinations, see what the maximum error is
[08:02] <natrium42> i figured out how to encode any 5 raw bytes with the 6 lat/lon bytes
[08:02] <natrium42> but i guess you could do it differently
[08:04] <natrium42> fsphil: here is my testing code with the loop testing all values --> http://pastie.org/1790156
[08:05] <fsphil> doing it directly would be better yea, though I suspect the other way is a lot easier :) I haven't tried hacking a spot yet so can't say
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[08:48] <fsphil> hibby, there was talk of a launch today or tomorrow. any news?
[08:55] <TangoAlphaWork> down to 871 grams total weight :-)
[08:55] <TangoAlphaWork> that's the balloon payload, not me
[08:55] <fsphil> lol
[08:56] <TangoAlphaWork> could still lose another 100/150 grams as gps and sms antennas leads need trimming
[08:58] <TangoAlphaWork> what timezone should i be using when posting to the tracker?
[08:59] <natrium42> UTC
[08:59] <TangoAlphaWork> good :-)
[09:00] <TangoAlphaWork> how do i get the list of parameters in the side window on the tracker? like the apex info, they list various name/values
[09:01] <fsphil> meh, prediction for saturday isn't so good now .. balloon is travelling quite far: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=a6c6daa0543e194939de11c7281acb942a762322
[09:01] <fsphil> though still solid ground
[09:02] <natrium42> TangoAlphaWork: i can add it to the main tracker, or you can use the embedded tracker --> http://spacenear.us/tracker/embed-test.php
[09:03] <natrium42> but they also need to be specified in the xml, if you are going through rob's server
[09:03] <TangoAlphaWork> embedded would be fine for now
[09:03] <natrium42> otherwise they won't be forwarded to spacenear.us
[09:03] <TangoAlphaWork> i tried the custom field stuff but couldn't see anything
[09:04] <natrium42> what xml are you using?
[09:04] <TangoAlphaWork> i'm not
[09:04] <TangoAlphaWork> lol
[09:04] <natrium42> oh? how are you sending the positions?
[09:04] <TangoAlphaWork> should i have a copy of what was added to the tracker?
[09:04] <TangoAlphaWork> i'm sending HTTP POSTs
[09:04] <natrium42> to where?
[09:04] <TangoAlphaWork> robertharrison.org
[09:05] <natrium42> and what's your callsign?
[09:05] <TangoAlphaWork> TangoAlpha
[09:05] <natrium42> ah, hrm
[09:06] <TangoAlphaWork> is that a "hrm" good or a "hrm" bad
[09:07] <natrium42> i don't know how it currently works on that side
[09:07] <natrium42> :S
[09:07] <natrium42> try to get a hold of jcoxon
[09:07] <TangoAlphaWork> ok
[09:07] <natrium42> sorry
[09:08] <natrium42> i wish the new tracker would be ready, this one requires some manual fumbling
[09:08] <TangoAlphaWork> no problem, i'm trying to do stuff in an unusual way, i don't expect it to be easy
[09:09] <natrium42> you could also send a POST/GET to spacenear.us directly
[09:10] <natrium42> format is described here --> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:tracker
[09:10] <TangoAlphaWork> is there a published API for spacenear.us?
[09:10] <natrium42> http://spacenear.us/tracker/track.php?vehicle=halo&time=233720&lat=5142.8844N&lon=00007.1758W&alt=123.9&heading=40&speed=20.5&pass=yourpass
[09:10] <natrium42> i will PM you the pass
[09:11] <TangoAlphaWork> thanks
[09:12] <TangoAlphaWork> is there a specified set of parameter names i can send?
[09:12] <natrium42> for custom data add "&data=value1;value2;value3"
[09:12] <natrium42> it's the one on the wiki, plus the data parameter
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[09:13] <TangoAlphaWork> and the custom data shows up as "Extra 1" "Extra 2" etc.?
[09:14] <natrium42> yes, unless you use the embedded tracker like so:
[09:14] <natrium42> http://spacenear.us/tracker/embed.php?height=600&custom_fields=Temperature;Pressure
[09:14] <natrium42> or just tell me the headings and i will put it into the main tracker befor your launch
[09:15] <TangoAlphaWork> ah, that's what the custom fields are for :-)
[09:15] <natrium42> :)
[09:15] <TangoAlphaWork> and i can GET or POST to spacenear.us?
[09:15] <natrium42> yeah, using that url above
[09:15] <natrium42> though you will need to unmarshall your radio string
[09:16] <TangoAlphaWork> ?
[09:16] <natrium42> and check the crc yourself
[09:16] <TangoAlphaWork> i'm already checking the CRC before i send anything anyway
[09:16] <TangoAlphaWork> unmarshall?
[09:16] <natrium42> i saw above that you used the UKHAS standard string?
[09:16] <TangoAlphaWork> yes, seemed like a good place to start
[09:16] <natrium42> so you will need to separate it into lat/lon, etc
[09:16] <natrium42> if you post to spacenear.us directly
[09:17] <natrium42> which is not hard, of course :P
[09:17] <TangoAlphaWork> not really, my little arduino rx board should be able to handle that
[09:18] <natrium42> is it connected to computer?
[09:18] <TangoAlphaWork> not at the moment
[09:18] <natrium42> might do it on computer too, unless you are running some kind of tcp/ip stack on the arduino :D
[09:18] <TangoAlphaWork> it's got an nrx2 for receiving and an ethernet board to send to the tracker
[09:18] <natrium42> aah, wow, awesome
[09:19] <fsphil> yea - totally self-contained tracking unit :)
[09:19] <natrium42> :)
[09:19] <TangoAlphaWork> only issue is the arduino needs a wired connection
[09:19] <TangoAlphaWork> need to sort out some routing when i take it on the chase
[09:20] <natrium42> anyway, if it's easier for you you can also post the UKHAS string to rob's server
[09:20] <TangoAlphaWork> should be able to plug it into my little eee laptop
[09:20] <natrium42> just get somebody to take care of the XML
[09:20] <natrium42> gonna catch some sleep
[09:20] <natrium42> good nite!
[09:20] <TangoAlphaWork> gnight, thanks for the help
[09:20] <natrium42> np
[09:25] <eroomde> that sounds cool TangoAlphaWork
[09:25] <eroomde> I wonder if instead of an ethernet shield you could use a telit gprs modem
[09:25] <eroomde> then it would really be self-contained
[09:25] <eroomde> (thought with an operating cost!)
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[10:50] <TangoAlphaWork> eroomde: i guess any shield could be used. i'll be publishing all my source once i've finished it so anyone can modify it however they want
[10:55] <TangoAlphaWork> i guess one of these would do http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9607
[10:56] <fsphil> I wonder how difficult it would be to just plug the NRX2 straight into the PC
[10:56] <TangoAlphaWork> i'm already using on of them on the flight computer so send SMS for tracking (low altitude on the way down)
[10:56] <TangoAlphaWork> maybe i should get my flight computer to use GPRS and upload directly to the tracker, lol
[10:57] <TangoAlphaWork> wouldn't need me at all
[10:57] <fsphil> not that would be epic
[10:57] <TangoAlphaWork> it's possible but only up to the altitude where gprs signal runs out
[10:57] <fsphil> it's a shame gsm coverage is limited at alittude
[10:58] <eroomde> someone got round that with a directional antenna
[10:58] <eroomde> iirc
[10:58] <TangoAlphaWork> nrx2 has a data out pin that outputs the signal given to the ntx2
[10:58] <eroomde> so the pointed the mobile phone signal down using a yagi which tended to illuminate only one or a couple of cell towers beneath it
[10:59] <TangoAlphaWork> i guess you could put that straight onto a serial port on a pc, tell it to use the same format as the tx and you should get data
[10:59] <eroomde> that might make the system workable ^
[10:59] <fsphil> the data out pin is analogue .. thinking of the line-in on the sound card
[10:59] <TangoAlphaWork> that's effectively what i am doing but using an arduino not a pc
[11:00] <TangoAlphaWork> analogue?
[11:00] <eroomde> the problem with plugging in the nrx2 to line-in directly is I beleive the low freq cutoff that some soundcards have
[11:00] <fsphil> yea.. a 50 baud signal would be filtered out
[11:01] <fsphil> TangoAlpha, yea it's an AF output -- you could use the NTX2 and NRX2 to send audio if you wanted to :)
[11:01] <TangoAlphaWork> i'm using pin 7 directly into one of the arduino serial pins
[11:01] <TangoAlphaWork> that's digital
[11:02] <TangoAlphaWork> you're talking about pin 6
[11:02] <eroomde> it's deaf as anything compared to a typical ham receiver though
[11:02] <TangoAlphaWork> eh? what? speak up
[11:02] <fsphil> it's an analogue link carrying a digital signal
[11:02] <fsphil> it could carry anything really
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> anyone here used solder stencils?
[11:04] <hibby> fsphil: launch is likely to be tomorrow. There are some CAA issues from what I've heard
[11:04] <eroomde> yes
[11:04] <eroomde> Laurenceb_:
[11:04] <Laurenceb_> im trying to work out how to get my stencil flush with the pcb
[11:04] <fsphil> hibby, uh-oh!
[11:04] <eroomde> hibby: do you known what kind of issues?
[11:04] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: make sure both sides are really clean. then you can use something like adhesive spray
[11:04] <Laurenceb_> im only doing one corner of the board, so i have to chop off part of the stencil
[11:04] <Laurenceb_> ah nice plan
[11:04] <eroomde> though be warned that leaves some residues that you'll want to wash off after reflowing
[11:05] <Laurenceb_> wont it mess up the solder?
[11:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[11:05] <eroomde> it wont mess up the solder if you spray it onto the stencil
[11:05] <Laurenceb_> doh
[11:05] <eroomde> dont spray it onto the board!
[11:05] <Laurenceb_> thats an obvious solution
[11:06] <Laurenceb_> cool ill see what i can find adhesive wise
[11:07] <eroomde> the standard poster spray stuff is pretty good
[11:07] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/Sjc6t.png <- im doing the RF section at the lower rhs
[11:07] <Laurenceb_> ok
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> Do you have all the parts?
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> still waiting for itg-3200 to ship from sparkfun so i cant populate the mems are
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> *area
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> hot-air?
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> stupid sparkfun :(
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> yes
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you have those IR thingies?
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> yes but im using hot air
[11:09] <Laurenceb_> as i have a decent hot air station with accurate temperature and flow control
[11:10] <Laurenceb_> interestingly it seems my first attempt created 'xbox 360 syndrome' in the solder
[11:10] <Laurenceb_> lots of micro cracks as it cooled too fast
[11:11] <TangoAlphaWork> what sort of antenna should i be using on my payload? i have a small helical one, a larger 1/4? wave one, or should i cut up a coat hanger and use that?
[11:12] <Laurenceb_> slowly moving the nozzle off the surface whilst lowering the temperature gives nice shiny joints with no cracks under the microscope
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[11:44] <hibby> SUNSET joint launch tomorrow, 930am
[11:44] <hibby> definately strathab carrying skypod and releasing it at 30km, the third balloon is still work in progress :s
[11:45] <fsphil> excellent
[11:45] <fsphil> are both transmitting?
[11:47] <hibby> aye, will be. Alternating transmissions, although that's been a little complicated
[11:48] <hibby> my strathab code is pretty simple to add utc timed tranmissions to, the skypod one is too reliant on interrupts, so they say, so it's a bit less... predictable
[11:48] <fsphil> I bet
[11:49] <fsphil> for the cirrus/hadie launch we just decided to use two different frequencies
[11:58] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
[11:59] <NigelMoby> Almost have all the bits for my antenna now!!
[12:02] <Laurenceb_> hmf i have no spray adhesive
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[12:03] <Laurenceb_> guess double sided tape is too thick
[12:03] <NigelMoby> Spray adhesive is fun stuff
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[12:06] <eroomde> TangoAlphaWork: I'm not a fan of coat hangars
[12:06] <eroomde> from a safety point of view
[12:06] <eroomde> and also they are not elastic so they can be bent on landing
[12:06] <eroomde> but my objection is mainly safety
[12:07] <eroomde> more of a fun of a wire inside a drinking straw or piano wire or something
[12:07] <NigelMoby> Afternoon eroomde
[12:08] <eroomde> ho
[12:09] <NigelMoby> I'm using electrical wire for my antenna, the thicker stuff u find in grey cables.
[12:10] <fsphil> The basic rule is, if you wouldn't want it landing on you head at 10m/s .. don't launch it :)
[12:10] <eroomde> zactly
[12:11] <eroomde> i like paino wire
[12:11] <eroomde> with ping pong balls on the end
[12:11] <eroomde> nice and elastic
[12:11] <NigelMoby> I figure its not to thick but not to thin
[12:12] <NigelMoby> Although the n-type at 10m/s will hurt lol
[12:12] <fsphil> my next flight antenna will just be some stripped rg58
[12:12] <eroomde> NigelMoby: is it elastic?
[12:12] <eroomde> you don't want it to get bashed by some chaos as you let go (which often happens) and then be without comms for the entire flight
[12:13] <eroomde> because it's been flattened into the ground plane or something
[12:13] <NigelMoby> I'd say its thin enough to damage itself before a human
[12:13] <eroomde> elastic isn't to protect humans, it's to make the system more robust
[12:14] <eroomde> for nova 17's payload I ran a wire in some pip lagging
[12:14] <eroomde> let me find a piccy hold on
[12:14] <NigelMoby> I'll do some tests I'm still waiting on the locking nuts b4 assembly
[12:15] <NigelMoby> Oki, this antenna is same design as used on upus ava payload
[12:15] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721971075/in/set-72157624203062811
[12:15] <eroomde> the lower box was just fopr it to rest on, it's not part of the payload
[12:16] <eroomde> the upper box is nova 18, the antenna active element is in the pipe lagging, the ground plane is those black bits sticking out
[12:17] <NigelMoby> Looks very effective, any issues with it at all?
[12:17] <fsphil> that might have been what happened my last flight .. the main element may have gotten flattened against the ground
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[12:17] <eroomde> NigelMoby: none yet, but it's only flown a few times
[12:18] <eroomde> i honestly mean it when I advise new people that if they're not willing to throw their payload down a flight of stairs after assembling it, they probably shouldn't fly it. they do need to be tough to work reliably
[12:19] <NigelMoby> Oh I agree
[12:19] <fsphil> I'd love to know that the FT790 whip is made of -- it's really soft, and keeps its shape well
[12:19] <eroomde> so it should be able to land antenna-first and still carry on nominally
[12:19] <NigelMoby> It's going to get a pasting on launch
[12:21] <NigelMoby> http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/antenna.jpg
[12:21] <NigelMoby> Is the 1 I'm building
[12:22] <eroomde> see, i'd definitely add something elastic to re-inforce that
[12:22] <eroomde> cos it'll just get mashed if you land on it or hit it
[12:22] <eroomde> likewise something to prevent eyes being poked out
[12:23] <NigelMoby> Hmm I see ure point, it is quite rigid, but my radial aren't as rigid as they look
[12:23] <fsphil> would they survive being spun about?
[12:24] <NigelMoby> I think so, but not a drag across a field or harsh landing
[12:24] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/mr77s-diamond-2m70cm-50cm-long-black-metal-whip-magmount-p-2055.html?osCsid=e6188704c55d4f835ad15cb68d8cb900
[12:25] <Upu> any thoughs on that for the chase car
[12:25] <Upu> any better options ?
[12:25] <eroomde> that's precisely when having a working antenna becomes useful
[12:25] <NigelMoby> Hey upu
[12:25] <fsphil> building the antenna into the payload box may be useful
[12:25] <eroomde> most of the distributed listener will get it to about 300m AGL, but when it has landed you want to be able to find it
[12:26] <NigelMoby> Inside the payload?
[12:26] <fsphil> I have something very similar Upu, seems to work well
[12:26] <NigelMoby> How?
[12:26] <Upu> ok cool
[12:26] <Upu> and NigelMoby that design is untested :)
[12:26] <fsphil> well that's the question :)
[12:27] <NigelMoby> It'll be tested to destruction I assure u
[12:28] <NigelMoby> Is there no escaping the 1/4 wave design ?
[12:28] <eroomde> yes
[12:28] <eroomde> plenty of scope for other things iuw
[12:29] <NigelMoby> Ohh, but largely untested?
[12:29] <eroomde> j-pole, slim-jim, big-wheel, crossed dipoles, all sorts
[12:29] <fsphil> I had good success with the vertical bazooka
[12:29] <eroomde> bazooka dipole has been flown a bit by us and others
[12:29] <NigelMoby> Well...
[12:29] <NigelMoby> I have the beacon on this flight to
[12:30] <NigelMoby> So could use that to test a new design?
[12:30] <Upu> I have all the parts I ordered here NigelMoby
[12:31] <Upu> the patch was £12
[12:31] <NigelMoby> Got them now upu all bar the n to sma Adapter
[12:31] <Upu> 1169552
[12:31] <Upu> Farnell
[12:32] <NigelMoby> Perfect Ty dude.
[12:32] <Upu> 19-34-2 Adaptor N Plug to SMA
[12:32] <NigelMoby> That's the 1.
[12:32] <NigelMoby> Heavy burgers these ntype connectors
[12:32] <NigelMoby> Buggers
[12:32] <Upu> yeah think I'll just use an SMA one next time
[12:33] <NigelMoby> That's a plan.
[12:33] <fsphil> trouble with sma is the size, difficult to solder a decent sized wire to it
[12:33] <Upu> yeah that was my concern
[12:34] <NigelMoby> Teeny
[12:34] <Upu> also NigelMoby that 1/4 wave only needs 2 radial not 4
[12:34] <fsphil> it was an sma I used so I'm avoiding them now :)
[12:34] <NigelMoby> Ahh yes 2 + the center ?
[12:34] <Upu> yes
[12:34] <Upu> I misread the diagram I was using
[12:35] <Upu> never assume anything... :)
[12:35] <NigelMoby> Oki cheers upu
[12:36] <NigelMoby> Phil, if I went up a really high mountain would I get good range on the Ntx2?
[12:36] <fsphil> oh yea
[12:37] <NigelMoby> Hmm
[12:37] <Upu> yep NigelMoby
[12:37] <fsphil> http://radarproblems.com/calculators/horizon.htm
[12:37] <Upu> Rob Harrison recieved my payload at 10 miles at ground level
[12:37] <fsphil> (ignore the ships and boats ;-)
[12:38] <NigelMoby> Ahh yes upu that was gnd level, dam impressive
[12:38] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/files/indoors.jpg <- was transmitting from in doors too
[12:38] <fsphil> so about 90km if you're 400m up
[12:38] <eroomde> more radials doesn't hurt
[12:39] <eroomde> all you're trying to do is approximate the impedance of an infinite ground plane
[12:39] <eroomde> 2 gets you surprisingly close, 4 even closer
[12:39] <NigelMoby> I see
[12:39] <eroomde> which gets you nearer your theoretical 50 ohm impedance, so you get more power from the ntx2 into the air. Diminishing returns though as with all things
[12:39] Action: SpeedEvil tries to remember if an infinite massive plane forms a black hole.
[12:40] <NigelMoby> Lol speedy
[12:40] <NigelMoby> Is like to get the Ntx signal to that repeater in bath Phil
[12:41] <fsphil> I wouldn't mess around with a repeater :)
[12:41] <NigelMoby> I'm sure that's possible if
[12:41] <NigelMoby> Oh
[12:42] <fsphil> yea you'd get ham radio people after you :p
[12:42] <NigelMoby> Doesn't work the way I thought then
[12:42] <eroomde> yes they will get very angry indeed if you use their repeater for interesting things
[12:42] <fsphil> lol
[12:42] <NigelMoby> I thought Matt could pick it up via that
[12:42] <eroomde> it'll stop them talking about back pain and how many pairs of underwear you can get away with on a 2 week holiday
[12:42] <fsphil> nah
[12:43] <NigelMoby> Lol ed
[12:43] <fsphil> it's funny cause it's true :)
[12:43] <SpeedEvil> 0
[12:43] <eroomde> thanks SpeedEvil
[12:43] <fsphil> lol
[12:43] Action: SpeedEvil is scottish, after-all.
[12:43] <fsphil> depends on where you holiday I suppose
[12:44] <NigelMoby> Lol
[12:44] <fsphil> NigelMoby, a repeater only listens on one frequency, and only in FM usually
[12:44] <fsphil> so it wouldn't work with the ntx2 at all
[12:44] <NigelMoby> Right desktop .. this phone keypad driving me nuts
[12:45] <NigelMoby> Oh .. brb
[12:47] <fsphil> mm predictions improved slightly since this-morning. I should stop looking at them, I know they're inaccurate this far ahead
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[12:50] <fsphil> ooh Sunday is looking better
[12:50] <fsphil> less far to travel
[12:51] <eroomde> unpredictible...
[12:51] <fsphil> yea
[12:51] <fsphil> it'll probably change completely in the next few days
[12:57] <fsphil> ooh: http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/2151/
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[13:00] <NigeyS> blimet its cold today :(
[13:01] <SamSilver> bbl > huge thunder storm on the way, tons of lightning! byeeee
[13:02] <NigeyS> was thinking phil, if i can find a high enough hill, i wonder if gw8rak could pickup the signal in north wales
[13:02] <NigeyS> eek cya SamSilver
[13:02] <eroomde> SamSilver: what's your location?
[13:02] <SamSilver> South Africa > Pietermaritzburg
[13:02] <SamSilver> got to go
[13:02] <eroomde> ah ok
[13:02] <eroomde> i don't need to get the washing in then
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[13:02] <NigeyS> lol
[13:07] <NigeyS> hmm think i found a nice hill
[13:07] <NigeyS> Cefn Eglwysilan
[13:07] <NigeyS> Elevation: 382 m / 1253 ft
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[13:18] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[13:19] <NigeyS> hey W0OTM
[13:20] <W0OTM> I have 2 350mw transmitters on opposite ends of the VHF Band (144 and 147.500)
[13:20] Shuffty (~Shuffty@188-221-227-102.zone12.bethere.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:20] <W0OTM> How far apart do the antennas need to be to prevent de-sensing/interference
[13:20] <Shuffty> afternoon all
[13:20] <NigeyS> hey Shuffty
[13:20] <Shuffty> Hey nigeys
[13:21] <Shuffty> Can anybody exlpain this to me... while(1){
[13:21] <Shuffty> What is the 1 referencing?
[13:22] <NigeyS> W0OTM, is that a 2m band ?
[13:22] <W0OTM> NigeyS: yes
[13:22] Action: NigeyS a bit thick on radio stuff
[13:22] <NigeyS> ok.. says here at least 19inches
[13:22] <NigeyS> Additionally, there will be no issues with two antennas interacting with each other if they are at least a quarter wavelength apart - at the lower of the frequencies. That is, at least 19 inches apart which is about a quarter wave on 2m.
[13:22] <fsphil> Shuffty, that means it will loop forever
[13:23] <fsphil> NigelMoby, possibly but GW8RAK would also need to find a good hill
[13:23] <NigeyS> i think he has alot of kit on a mast doesnt he ?
[13:23] <NigeyS> for his cadets / radi club ?
[13:23] <NigeyS> radio*
[13:23] <fsphil> that's a possibility
[13:24] <Shuffty> Thanks fsphil!
[13:24] <Shuffty> :-)
[13:24] <NigeyS> 300m is about as high as i can without making it a serious trek .. that hills only a 30 min drive
[13:24] <fsphil> same here with slieve gallion. mountains are handy :)
[13:25] <NigeyS> very :D and looking at google earth, its fairly clear LOS n and n.w
[13:25] <fsphil> would be an excellent range test
[13:25] <NigeyS> go further west or east and you get that big snowdon beast in the way lol
[13:26] <fsphil> I bet if I travelled to the Mourne mountains I could receive it
[13:27] <NigeyS> oo, well , if the sma connector turns up, and i can find transport im looking at sunday .. only day this week we have good weather :(
[13:27] <NigeyS> think ill keep the payload on the breadboard in the box, and take a tripod to hang it from ..
[13:29] <fsphil> we may be camping near that area this weekend .. I'll see how far it is from the highest peak
[13:29] <NigeyS> sure let me know
[13:32] <NigeyS> W0OTM, are either of those 2 frequencies APRS ?
[13:35] <W0OTM> NigeyS: yes, 144.39
[13:36] <NigeyS> ok then i just found this ..
[13:36] <NigeyS> add APRS to the mix. THAT will desense your regular 2m comm rig, no matter how far away on the roof you get the antennas. Keep in mind, desensing the other receiver is not related to antenna interaction.
[13:38] <NigeyS> apparently you'll be altering the radiation pattern .. or something :|
[13:49] <fsphil> heh, I just met someone who looks a lot like chancellor Gowron from Star Trek. but without the Klingon forehead though :)
[13:49] <NigeyS> lol
[13:50] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/5gxie.jpg
[13:50] <NigeyS> wish it'd stop raining i want to test this code :(
[13:50] <NigeyS> blimey whats that laurence ?
[13:50] <Laurenceb_> Dactyl board
[13:50] <Upu> well you will live in Wales
[13:50] <NigeyS> ooo
[13:51] <Upu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/watson-2m70cm-base-station-vertical-antenna-p-1947.html?osCsid=4e53c1078728d041615122763646d299
[13:51] <NigeyS> Upu, wales is kinda ok
[13:51] <Upu> that'll work for the house won't it ? colinear
[13:51] <Laurenceb_> RF now populated ok
[13:51] <Upu> save me building one
[13:52] <NigeyS> Laurenceb_, looking good!
[13:54] <Laurenceb_> lots of 0402
[13:54] <NigeyS> dunno bout inside upu, but thatd look great on my washing line pole !
[13:54] <NigeyS> how are you doing the soldering ?
[13:55] <fsphil> man the bbc have some stupid headlines ... "Canadian leaders clash in TV debate" .. well yea, that's the idea
[13:55] <Upu> so if I have a that colinear that can do 2m/70cms do I need an ATU if I want to transmit from my FT817 ?
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/JtsgO.jpg
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> stencils and solder paste
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> then hot air station
[13:56] <NigeyS> oh sweet, but still 0204 is tiny, you must have better eyesight than me!
[13:56] <fsphil> Upu, nope -- not when transmitting on 2m or 70cm anyway
[13:56] <NigeyS> 0402*
[13:56] <Upu> might just get that then so I can transmit on 2m as well
[13:56] <Upu> cheers
[13:56] <fsphil> I was able to tune mine up to some HF bands but I can't imagine it was radiating too much
[13:58] <fsphil> you should get good coverage with a colinear where you are
[13:58] <Upu> indeed
[14:00] <NigeyS> Laurenceb_, what kind of temps do you use on the hot air station ?
[14:00] <Laurenceb_> 238C
[14:00] <NigeyS> see now that confuses me, when i see ic's that are rated to like .. 90c or something, yet you literally cook them to solder them ...
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah, but only for a short duration
[14:05] <hibby> launch details for tomorrow are getting emailed to the ukhas mailing list, i believe.
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> also 90C will be for operation
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> usually extended periods at 150C are survivable
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> 250C for < minute
[14:11] <Upu> right bought it
[14:16] <NigeyS> ohh i see, tnx for clearing that up Laurenceb_ its pickled me for a while
[14:16] <NigeyS> like when i saw someone use a frying pan :|
[14:17] <NigeyS> Upu, let me know how it performs, it looks a good alternative to my deaf yagi, and cheaper than the one matt showed me .. x50n ? or
[14:18] <fsphil> I highly recommend the x50n
[14:18] <NigeyS> whats the n for btw i noted they had x50 and x50n but specs seemed the same ?
[14:19] <NigeyS> hibby, great stuff, 3 in 1 isnt it ?
[14:19] <fsphil> N has an n-type plug, the regular has an SO-259
[14:19] <fsphil> N-type is a much better connector for 430mhz stuffs
[14:19] <NigeyS> ahh i see
[14:20] <fsphil> not that there's a huge amount of difference, but for weak signal work I'd get the N
[14:20] <hibby> NigeyS: that's the hope. One's hanging in the balance a bit depending on getting the lassen IQ working
[14:20] <NigeyS> rgr!
[14:20] <NigeyS> lol another misbehaving lassen
[14:20] <hibby> definately strathab1 carrying skypod as a payload and releasing it at 29km
[14:20] <NigeyS> theyre not to popular this week
[14:20] <hibby> NigeyS: we've not even got headers to solder it in yet :/
[14:20] <NigeyS> get a cable
[14:21] <NigeyS> for dpie
[14:21] <NigeyS> from*
[14:21] <hibby> would make sense
[14:21] <NigeyS> will save alot of arsing around smd soldering that header
[14:21] <hibby> what happens when you task mech eng students with things
[14:21] <griffonbot> Received email: andrewallan "[UKHAS] SKYPOD Launch Tomorrow from North Berwick"
[14:22] <NigeyS> lol
[14:22] <NigeyS> fyi
[14:22] <NigeyS> http://www.dpieshop.com/trimble-iqsq-data-cable-to-flying-lead-way-125mm-pitch-p-238.html?osCsid=da99406dbba49a570165a13aeda94cbc
[14:25] <fsphil> Ahh, launching near Edinburgh
[14:25] <fsphil> nice place
[14:25] <hibby> berwick is lovely
[14:25] <hibby> Mrs Hibby originates from that area
[14:26] <fsphil> nice small town from the looks of it
[14:26] <fsphil> ooh, right by the sea
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[14:29] <eroomde> Has it passed over now SamSilver ?
[14:29] <SamSilver> it was a duluge (spelling)
[14:29] <SamSilver> looked like it was hail, the sky was green black
[14:30] <SamSilver> lightning was great
[14:30] <Laurenceb_> si4432 seems to be running
[14:30] <Laurenceb_> core voltage output is 1.5V and its drawing about the right current in idle mode XD
[14:30] Action: fsphil is looking forward to getting some good thunderstorms
[14:31] <Laurenceb_> as long as they dont fry anything :P
[14:31] <SamSilver> I have lost four modems and one pc
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[14:32] <SpeedEvil> :/
[14:32] <SamSilver> and had the house set on fire > live in thatched house
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> Oops.
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> During lightning I go onbattery + 3G and unplug everything
[14:32] <fsphil> oops x2
[14:33] <fsphil> I unplug antennas but leave everything else
[14:33] <hibby> cheers, ta.
[14:34] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/JtsgO.jpg <larger shot
[14:34] <Laurenceb_> ill have to clean it at some point
[14:35] <SamSilver> Laurenceb do tell what that is
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Looking good!
[14:36] <Laurenceb_> autopilot board with all the shiney bits put on
[14:36] <fsphil> meh. found a SQL query which selects every item in a table, then right at the end is table.*
[14:36] <SamSilver> the paparrazie one ? (spelling)
[14:36] <Laurenceb_> no, my own design
[14:37] <SamSilver> rtl or fully fledged auto?
[14:37] <Laurenceb_> either
[14:38] <Laurenceb_> theres an rf link, pcm/pwm inputs and imu
[14:38] <SamSilver> oohh I am looking at the pico rtl
[14:38] <SamSilver> shuuu hats off to you
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[14:39] <Laurenceb_> atm im waiting for sparkfun to ship the bmp085 baro sensor and itg-3200 gyro.. they went out of stock and i had to backorder
[14:40] <Laurenceb_> sparkfun are rather disorganised, i tend to avoid them
[14:40] <Zuph> Laurenceb_: Looking very nice. What size are those passives under the RF IC?
[14:40] <SamSilver> I think it is all the kopters that are being built
[14:40] <SamSilver> quad/tri/octo/
[14:40] <Laurenceb_> Zuph: 0402
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly i had to change some of the inductors to lower tolerance
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> the really nice murata ones are all out of stock.. maybe its due to the quake
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> that may shave half a dB off the performance :(
[14:42] <SamSilver> and your 2nd job is a brain surgen?
[14:42] <Zuph> Sheesh. I haven't been able to reliably hand-solder anything smaller than 0603. They just fly away.
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> yes im going that mad trying to get every last bit of performance out :P
[14:43] <Laurenceb_> well i may have inhaled one by mistake
[14:43] <SamSilver> LOL
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:43] <Zuph> Also, Laurenceb_, Digikey sells the BMP085, not sure if they're harder to deal with on shipping than sparkfun, though.
[14:43] <Laurenceb_> felt something in my nose and an 0402 was missing
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> The true reason for RoHS
[14:43] <Laurenceb_> Zuph exactly
[14:43] <SamSilver> lol
[14:43] <Laurenceb_> no reason for sparkfun disorganisation
[14:44] <SamSilver> they soooo small no need for a chokeing hazard warning
[14:44] <Laurenceb_> well it was a 35p inductor, so slightly annoying
[14:46] <Zuph> I have become a big fan of the hotplate method for surface mount soldering.
[14:48] <Upu> I have a SM inductor on my board
[14:48] <Upu> was a very fine solder tip and a pair of tweezers job
[14:49] <Laurenceb_> the via next to C16 is slightly worrying
[14:49] <Laurenceb_> rathert out of linbe
[14:49] <Upu> we have a proper solder rework station at work and one of my engineers is very good at it so I let him do it
[14:49] <NigeyS> Zuph, hotplate as in frying pan ?
[14:51] <Zuph> NigeyS: Like an electric griddle: http://amzn.to/hXxZjZ
[14:51] <NigeyS> oo
[14:51] <NigeyS> i got 1 of those
[14:51] <NigeyS> hmm
[14:52] <NigeyS> id prolly melt the pcb haha
[14:52] <Zuph> Can't use it for pancakes after soldering :-p
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[14:53] <Zuph> Honestly, I haven't seen a griddle that gets hot enough to damage the PCB.
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: That is what RoHS is also for.
[14:54] <Laurenceb_> ive just been using a hot air gun
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> WiNot blowing srtuff away?
[14:55] <Laurenceb_> means i can assemble in sections, avoiding overheating other parts
[14:55] <Laurenceb_> low flow and 25mm head
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:55] <fsphil> Laurenceb_, that temperature do you run the air gun at?
[14:55] <Laurenceb_> 238C
[14:55] <fsphil> aah
[14:56] <fsphil> I've yet to not burn stuff :)
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[15:33] <hibby> :) strathab systems working nicely... just about good to go, skypod's all working.
[15:34] <jgrahamc> Nice
[15:34] <eroomde> hibby: what time are you launching tomorrow?
[15:34] <jgrahamc> Probably won't be able to track tomorrow because I have this ridiculous _job_ where I have to do non-HAB work
[15:34] <fsphil> meh :p same here, but I work around it :)
[15:35] <eroomde> jgrahamc: build an automatic azimuth/elevation antenna tower and put it on your roof, and control it remotely from work
[15:35] <jgrahamc> Yes, but going to work and sticking a Yagi out the window isn't going to go unnoticed.
[15:35] <jgrahamc> I actually though about doing that eroomde.
[15:35] <jgrahamc> It would be very cool, but I seem to have spent all my money (again).
[15:36] <eroomde> me too
[15:36] <eroomde> i can't actually book chunnel tickets currently
[15:36] <eroomde> I am owed about 1 months's salary worth of expenses from the davos field trip, I have just payed deposit on new house and don't yet have deposit back from last house. this is a Cash Flow Problem
[15:39] <eroomde> nvm, i hope it'll fix itself
[15:39] <eroomde> time for me to be off - see you
[15:39] <jgrahamc> Yep. Understand
[15:40] <priyesh> Apex II's second launch write up is now available on the website: http://www.apexhab.org/apex-ii/launch-2/
[15:40] <jgrahamc> Off to read it
[15:41] <priyesh> There's a video from the payload on there too
[15:43] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Apex II's launch 2 write-up is now available http://j.mp/elrbsX #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/58193586998620160]
[15:44] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Apex II's dawn launch footage has been updated to show the balloon burst http://j.mp/hGV1XV #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/58193817962156033]
[15:48] <priyesh> (Apex II) Anyone who is interested in seeing the balloon burst watch the video http://vimeo.com/22262445 at 04:05
[15:49] <MrCraig> awesome stunning images.
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Oh - another balloon burst video
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> oh- from the balloon this time
[15:50] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: RT @apexhab: Apex II's launch 2 write-up is now available http://j.mp/elrbsX #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/58195477799251968]
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> Wow - awesome picture of the sun with a wierd cloud formation next to it.
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> Oh - no - that's a torch.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> I wish vimeo would do low speed
[15:56] <W0OTM> 1700g payload with e 600g ballon, thoughts?
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> No reason why not
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> It'll burst a few Km lower
[15:57] <jgrahamc> And it'll rise slowly no doubt.
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> Well - that depends how much helium you put in it.
[15:57] <SpeedEvil> To a first order - with the same amount of heliuum it'll rise as fast as a bigger balloon
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[15:57] <SpeedEvil> Maybe a little faster.
[15:58] <jgrahamc> I see, but it'll burst lower because it'll be more stretched. Is that right?
[15:58] <W0OTM> http://www.ihabproject.com/iHAB-4/BalloonBurstCalc.pdf
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> yes
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> It 'always' bursts at the same diameter.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> If you put more gas in, that diameter occurs lower
[15:59] <Dan-K2VOL> afternoon all
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> At some point this'll change - you probably can't expect a 600g balloon to launch 20kg - as that will overstrain the neck
[16:00] <Dan-K2VOL> also look for LiftWin on EOSS.org
[16:00] <jgrahamc> The dawn footage from priyesh reminds me of video from early space flights.
[16:01] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone else watch First Orbit last night at a Yuri's night party?
[16:02] <W0OTM> SpeedEvil: those calcs look ok?
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - diddn't look
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure anyway
[16:03] <NigeyS> hm this t68 seems to instantly drain most of its battery when i hook the cable to the breadboard :|
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[16:14] <SamSilver> later
[16:15] <Zuph> Come on digikey order, come today and give me something else to distract me from my thesis.
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[16:16] <NigeyS> hehe nicey
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[16:43] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe zuph
[16:44] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Ordered an STM32 dev module. Next gen white star computer, here we come :-p
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[16:53] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[16:54] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk - Skypod Launch ~1000BST 14/04/11 from North Berwick
[16:54] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[16:56] <NigeyS> hi jonsowman
[16:56] <jonsowman> hi NigeyS
[16:58] <NigeyS> hmm anyone know where i can get 4 polystyrene balls from? seems i have to buy in packs of millions :(
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[17:38] <fsphil> home sweet home
[17:39] <fsphil> my helium filler with gauge arrived. tried it on the old T cylinder I used for hadie:2 and found there's very little left
[17:40] <jonsowman> how are predictions looking for saturday fsphil ?
[17:40] <fsphil> they moved from nearby to fairly far away, but still on solid ground
[17:41] <fsphil> lemme see if they've changed since then...
[17:41] <fsphil> sunday actually looked better
[17:41] <jonsowman> is your NOTAM alright for sunday?
[17:42] <fsphil> yea, it's from saturday onwards
[17:42] <jonsowman> oh excellent :)
[17:42] <fsphil> I asked for a month this time
[17:42] <jonsowman> wise plan
[17:43] <fsphil> also up to two balloons, so I can launch a second one anytime in the next month
[17:43] <jonsowman> :D
[17:43] <jonsowman> what's on this payload, ssdv again?
[17:44] <fsphil> yep -- basically a repeat of the last one, but with better antenna and tweaked ssdv code
[17:44] <fsphil> and a non-mad flightpath
[17:44] <jonsowman> goof stuff
[17:44] <jonsowman> haha
[17:44] <jonsowman> yes the last one was pretty crazy
[17:44] <jonsowman> *good
[17:45] <fsphil> worth the risk I think, the pictures would have been epic
[17:45] <jonsowman> definitely!
[17:45] <fsphil> urg, Saturday has gone further away again: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=00caa0da8b588aeb8ddaa868665ae4282e16bf9f
[17:45] <jonsowman> 75km range
[17:46] <jonsowman> not /awful/
[17:46] <fsphil> not too bad
[17:46] <fsphil> sunday is still better so far: http://habhub.org/predict/#!/uuid=bacb07506ba11186c098ff572ce1158a0f51ed25
[17:46] <jonsowman> i wouldn't trust it until the 06z model tomorrow
[17:46] <fsphil> indeed
[17:46] <jonsowman> yeah I just ran a sunday prediction, looks good. I don't know if it'll stay like that though
[17:46] <fsphil> probably not
[17:46] <NigeyS> phil, any ideas how to secure the center radial to the ntype other than solder? hot glue do it ?
[17:47] <fsphil> heat shrink?
[17:47] <fsphil> you'll definitely want to solder it
[17:47] <NigeyS> hot glue + heat shrink? :D
[17:47] <fsphil> haha
[17:47] <NigeyS> i cant tried last time and it melted the plastic in the adapter :|
[17:47] <jonsowman> NigeyS: you absolutely must have a decent electrical connection
[17:47] <fsphil> yes the soldering is essential
[17:47] <NigeyS> hm
[17:48] <fsphil> you probably had the iron on it too long
[17:48] <NigeyS> well it took ages to get hot, its a pretty thick brass pin
[17:48] <fsphil> you might need a hotter iron
[17:48] <jonsowman> we used a PL-259 plug
[17:48] <Dan-K2VOL> you need to have a bigger soldering iron
[17:48] <jonsowman> http://gallery.apex-ii.apexhab.org/index.php/Antennas/100_1472
[17:49] <fsphil> nice sofa
[17:49] <NigeyS> well i have a temp controlled iron, norm run it at half - 3/4 temp
[17:49] <Dan-K2VOL> try a 200 watt gun
[17:49] <jonsowman> fsphil: hehe, not mine :P
[17:49] <NigeyS> thats what im using jon
[17:49] <fsphil> speaking of antennas, I must get mine finished tonight
[17:50] <jonsowman> NigeyS: oh right
[17:50] <fsphil> more flux
[17:51] <jonsowman> more flux, hotter iron
[17:51] <NigeyS> kk ill give it a go
[17:51] <fsphil> tin the end of the wire a bit too
[17:51] Action: fsphil melted an impressive number of D plugs when learning to solder :)
[17:52] <NigeyS> lol oki
[17:52] <fsphil> DB9's especially
[17:53] <fsphil> I wonder if my O2 dongle would even work in .ie
[17:55] <fsphil> would it make much difference to how much is radiated, if the radials are not sloped back 45 degrees? I know it helps match the antenna to 50 ohms
[17:55] <fsphil> I think a few of the flights this week used flat radials
[17:55] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman "[UKHAS] Tracker Clearing"
[17:56] <fsphil> lol, it's impressive though having all the tracks
[17:56] <fsphil> but it's slowing down my machine
[18:02] <jonsowman> cleared some of the obviously test data
[18:03] <fsphil> I'll probably be adding a bit of test data later, but before 10pm
[18:03] <jonsowman> that's fine, as long as you don't mind it getting deleted
[18:03] <jonsowman> just wanted the tracker to be clear before Skypod tomorrow
[18:04] <jonsowman> it's getting a bit silly
[18:04] <hibby> how many more can we get on before it's saturated?
[18:05] <fsphil> oh yea it's just going to be test data
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[18:17] <hibby> this just made my night: 19:15 < smiles> Hibby: so what if you reverse the spin of the planet would it affect the gravity of everything around it?
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[18:23] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[18:24] <hibby> hola
[18:29] <fsphil> aah gravity
[18:29] <fsphil> it sucks
[18:29] <fsphil> hiya mattltm
[18:29] <mattltm> lol. hi fsphil.
[18:30] <fsphil> ah, just noticed there's two eggs in my nest box
[18:32] <mattltm> cool ;)
[18:32] <mattltm> Just leavesone question... Scrambled of poached?
[18:33] <mattltm> On toast?
[18:33] <fsphil> mmm not big enough for poached
[18:33] <fsphil> definitely scrambled
[18:33] <mattltm> lol. What are they?
[18:33] <fsphil> great tit eggs
[18:33] <mattltm> oh! I love great tits.
[18:34] Action: fsphil hands mattltm his coat
[18:34] <mattltm> lol.
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[18:34] <mattltm> I have 6 chickens :)
[18:34] <fsphil> ah cool!
[18:34] <fsphil> http://webcam.sanslogic.co.uk/box1
[18:34] <mattltm> They are very entertaining.
[18:35] <fsphil> there's about four chickens not too far from here. they can be noisy sometimes
[18:35] <mattltm> What cam you using?
[18:35] <fsphil> it's a little board camera I got from cpc ages ago
[18:35] <mattltm> Good qaulity feed.
[18:35] <mattltm> Vedio server?
[18:36] <fsphil> little homebrew app, merges the outside and inside views
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[18:36] <fsphil> spits out a theora stream
[18:36] <mattltm> Nice.
[18:37] <mattltm> Noisy dog
[18:37] <fsphil> that's Tyson, my little mutt. he's barking at another dog, which is barking at the chickens I thnk
[18:37] <fsphil> think*
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[18:38] <mattltm> lol. My dobie/rotty cross is afraid of our chickens.
[18:38] <fsphil> haha!¬
[18:38] <fsphil> not the kind of dog I'd expect to be afraid of things
[18:39] <mattltm> We usualy let them roam the garden. One bit her on the bum.
[18:39] <fsphil> Are they pets?
[18:40] <mattltm> I have a spare Axis 211 ip cam that I thought about putting in their coup.
[18:40] <griffonbot> @apexhab: The Apex II gallery now contains photographs from launch 2 http://j.mp/hwyasr #apexhab #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/58238099897073664]
[18:40] <mattltm> Pets/livestock.
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[18:40] <mattltm> We had one for Christmas dinner
[18:41] <mattltm> Lol. Only kidding. I could never kill one
[18:41] <mattltm> They are too funny.
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[18:41] <mattltm> Damn fine eggs though.
[18:42] <fsphil> I bet
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[18:51] <Shuffty> upu?
[18:56] <Upu> Shuffty ?
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[18:57] <Upu> _Shuffty :)
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> You can hypnotise chickens. Place themupsidedown withtheir shoulders flat to the ground
[18:57] <fsphil> he's multiplying
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> they sit there dor 20 minutes orso.
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> for
[18:57] Action: Upu checks he's on the right channel
[18:57] <mattltm> SpeedEvil: Been there...
[18:58] <Upu> antenna ordered :)
[18:58] <fsphil> sweet!
[18:58] <fsphil> which one?
[18:58] <Upu> Colinear
[18:58] <Upu> can't remember the make
[18:58] <Upu> its not massive but not the smallest
[18:59] <Upu> Watson W-50
[19:00] <mattltm> Upu: Nice work :)
[19:00] <fsphil> looks good!
[19:00] <Upu> should have a fairly nice listening post here then , will try work out how to make my rig remotely controllable
[19:00] <fsphil> my mag mount is a watson
[19:01] <mattltm> My first Coliniear was a W-50
[19:01] <mattltm> Have a diamond X-300 at the moment.
[19:01] <Shuffty> :-) sorry baout that upu - stood in the back garden again trying for a sat lock! :-)
[19:01] <Upu> lol
[19:01] <Upu> evening
[19:03] <fsphil> aah, the lassen manoeuvre
[19:03] <Upu> should get an ISM 300 it gets a lock indoors in about 15 sec
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[19:17] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/13/marijuana_thermageddon/
[19:17] <Laurenceb> 1% ?!
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> Insane.
[19:21] <NigeyS> ach battery on this t68 is shagged :(
[19:28] <Laurenceb> you used to be able to get them on ebay
[19:28] <Laurenceb> iirc its compatible with a ton of ericcson/sony-ericcson phones
[19:29] <Laurenceb> so it might take a bit of searching for compatible batteries
[19:29] Action: Laurenceb has a nokia battery that he's been using ~24/7 since 2003
[19:30] <Laurenceb> now down to about 70% capacity
[19:30] <Laurenceb> its retty insane
[19:31] <Laurenceb> you have to treat them really well to get that performance - avoid storingin hot places etc
[19:32] <Laurenceb> also i only use it in a standby phone that lasts over two weeks
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> I was astonished to measure the laptop battery I'd otten onebay.
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> I was expecting to have to re-cell it of for it to have a few percent of capacity.
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> It's 96% of nominal - and it was made in 2007
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> It was cheap
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> If cells are kept at low charge-states - theylast lots longer.
[19:36] <Laurenceb> i have a 2006 cell with similar capacity %, ive been keeping it on 15% charge under stairs
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> I've set my laptop battery to charge to 70% only.
[19:36] <Laurenceb> if you keep them in a fridge they last ~forever
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> Especially at lower charge states.
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[19:43] <fsphil> crimping sma is ... delicate
[19:47] <Dan-K2VOL> yes
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[19:48] <Dan-K2VOL> actually for lithium polymer cells Laurenceb, if you store them for long periods of non-use, it needs to be at 50% charge for them to have maximum life
[19:49] <Laurenceb> aiui thats as they discharge
[19:49] <Dan-K2VOL> and they need to cycle full-empty-full about once a month, during normal usage, to get maximum life
[19:49] <Laurenceb> if you top them up occasionally its better to have them lower
[19:49] <Laurenceb> interesting
[19:50] <andrewallan> skypod launch tomorrow morning...anyone going to listen in?
[19:50] <Dan-K2VOL> well, that's what the internal Apple documentation said for me, granted I have no chemical evidence
[19:50] <fsphil> andrewallan, I will have go
[19:50] <Laurenceb> i see
[19:51] <Dan-K2VOL> and it was intended as advice for customers, as I was a customer-facing store tech
[19:51] <Laurenceb> ah im guess then that they increased the % as theres leakage in the cells
[19:52] <Dan-K2VOL> so conspiracy theorists could well suggest it was intended to DECREASE battery life, so customers would buy battery replacements more often. However, I don't think so
[19:52] <Laurenceb> so for a long duration of storage you want to be sure the voltage doesnt go too low
[19:52] <NigeyS> w00t w00t
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL> the OS on all the apple devices automatically recalibrates the % graph and stores the calibration in the battery's chip as the battery ages to reflect
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL> the lesser capacity
[19:53] Action: NigeyS has recieved a timed teletry string via sms .. with only a minor hicup !
[19:53] <Dan-K2VOL> nice NigeyS
[19:54] <Laurenceb> thats evil
[19:54] <Laurenceb> having said that the calibration graph for my old nokia has gone really nonlinear
[19:55] <Laurenceb> 90% for a week then rapidly dropps off
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> The internal resistance of Li-ion cells is an issue in phones for old cells
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> They need to be able to sustain a 2A pulse
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> ah yes, speedevil, that's the problem we have with using supercaps for decoupling caps for the Digi m10 sat modem
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> they just have too high internal resistance
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> wouldn't release the electricity fast enough
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> There are good supercaps
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> They are not cheap rthough
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> 10mR impedence not 10R
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> yeahhh or not lightweight, or not rated to 40C, it's a touch set of constraint
[19:58] <Dan-K2VOL> s
[19:59] <andrewallan> hey all...anyone listening listening in to the skypod launch tomorrow?
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> IIRC you're looking at $5 for 1F 2.5V
[20:01] <Laurenceb> just ask eestor for some samples
[20:01] <Laurenceb> /jk
[20:03] <fsphil> man, I just noticed Carl Sagen sounds a lot like Agent Smith
[20:03] Action: SpeedEvil wishes eestor was real again.
[20:04] jan_bangna (~jandetlef@ppp-124-120-102-85.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #highaltitude.
[20:04] <hibby> hmm
[20:04] <hibby> hijacked by flatmate
[20:04] <hibby> at least we have some food now
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[20:07] <BrainDamage> silly question: what was the record height achieved with a balloon here, and what's a rough eyball average height before burst?
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[20:09] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> IIRC somewhere around 36km
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> 30km is pretty average
[20:10] <fsphil> 35.289km according to the wiki, Icarus-2
[20:10] <andrewallan> hey all...anyone listening listening in to the skypod launch tomorrow?
[20:14] <LazyLeopard> It's likely to be a bit distant for me. I didn't quite manage to decode anything from the previous flight.
[20:15] <andrewallan> LazyLeopard: thanks, appreciate you trying last time, where are you based?
[20:15] <LazyLeopard> South east of London. Somewhat the wrong end of the Island. ;)
[20:16] <andrewallan> lol, yeah that is a bit far away i guess!
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Where isskypod again - is this the one that was up near Forfar?
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> Or around there.
[20:17] <hibby> i'll be listening.
[20:18] <BrainDamage> thanks
[20:18] <jonsowman> I'll be around on #highaltitude in case anything needs sorting with the tracker :)
[20:19] <andrewallan> skypod launched from Newton Stewart last week but is launching from North Berwick tomorrow
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[20:19] <andrewallan> so we've switched to the other side of the country!
[20:21] <jonsowman> andrewallan: I'll clear the tracker for you tonight and again tomorrow before the launch
[20:22] <andrewallan> cheers jon
[20:29] <andrewallan> catch you all 2mro for the last flight of the skypod
[20:29] <andrewallan> good night
[20:29] <jonsowman> good luck!
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[20:31] <fsphil> yay, sma crimped. bit of heat shrink around the plug and it almost looks properly done ;)
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[20:34] <NigeyS> you managed to crimp sma? :o
[20:35] <fsphil> yea :)
[20:35] <fsphil> rg58, not that thin cable it comes with sometimes
[20:37] <jonsowman> right, clearing tracker
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[20:43] <NigeyS> hmm phil http://www.amateurdeepfield.org/smsrtty.png
[20:43] <NigeyS> the gap is double that size, i was just slow taking the screengrab
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[20:52] <NigeyS> DanielRichman, complete success, telem string emailed every 20 lines of rtty :D
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[21:04] Syrill (~0@cpe-72-134-52-220.socal.res.rr.com) left irc:
[21:04] <Zuph> Welp, looks like buying an STM32 Discovery board was a mistake :-p
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[21:07] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A07007.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:08] <mattltm> Hi Lunar_Lander
[21:08] <mattltm> Thanks. Got it today :)
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
[21:14] <fsphil> just takes time to send an SMS I guess
[21:15] <NigeyS> yup, it did something else odd, it sent 1 at line 19 and another at line 39
[21:15] <fsphil> hmm
[21:15] <NigeyS> shouldve only sent 1 ? if i set the count be 20 not 50 ?
[21:16] <fsphil> you want it every 20 though?
[21:16] <NigeyS> nah i just set it to that to save me waiting out the garden in the freezing cold for an hour lol
[21:17] <NigeyS> 50 is fine, but wont that do every 50 aswell ?
[21:18] <NigeyS> im guessing by the time it gets 100 lines it'll be out of gsm coverage
[21:18] <fsphil> the code you have will do it every 50
[21:20] <NigeyS> aye, yeah, sorry im confusing myself .. *gets coat*
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> hey NigeyS
[21:22] <NigeyS> hey kev! how's you dude ?
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> fine again, thanks
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:25] <NigeyS> yey good !
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> no fear of dying anymore
[21:30] <NigeyS> lol good
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> and if
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> well, I think I will notice early enough
[21:31] <fsphil> jonsowman, like the led clock
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> and hi fsphil :)
[21:35] <fsphil> hiya Lunar!
[21:35] <fsphil> just looking at the apex-2 pictures
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:37] <hibby> launches are looking good for tomorrow :)
[21:38] <fsphil> my rig is still setup from the last bunch of launches
[21:39] <fsphil> hehe, love this pic too: http://gallery.apex-ii.apexhab.org/index.php/Launch-2/Flight-Photos/Downwards-Facing-Camera/IMG_4292
[21:40] <fsphil> looks like a painting
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[21:48] mattltm (~mattltm@92.7.169.31) left irc:
[21:50] <Darkside> haha
[21:51] <Darkside> i think your exposure times are a little too long :P
[21:55] <fsphil> makes a great desktop background :)
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :D
[21:56] <andrew_apex> it was spinning really fast
[21:56] <andrew_apex> like 6 times a second or something :P
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:57] <andrew_apex> the balloon and parachute were completly tangled - despite there being 20 meters of line between them
[21:58] <NigeyS> grrrrrr
[21:58] Action: NigeyS kicks ats-1 around the garden
[21:58] <fsphil> hmm.. I think I need my own version of Stan the Stand
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[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[21:59] <NigeyS> nn Kev
[21:59] <fsphil> yes! hadie:3 has gps lock!
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> well done!
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> gn8
[21:59] Action: NigeyS steals phils gps lock
[21:59] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A07007.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
[21:59] <fsphil> muhaha
[21:59] Action: NigeyS bitch slaps the t68
[22:00] <fsphil> still an fsa03.. you sure you want it? :)
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[22:00] <NigeyS> ew no lol
[22:00] <NigeyS> 21,21,3*BF29
[22:00] <NigeyS> ATS1,19,
[22:00] <NigeyS> added 2 more $$ and its stripped all 4 of them lol
[22:00] <fsphil> hmm
[22:00] <fsphil> ooh
[22:00] <NigeyS> and its a 6 second gap in total
[22:00] <fsphil> the crccat bit
[22:00] <fsphil> or catcrc
[22:00] <NigeyS> between rtty off and on
[22:01] <fsphil> it has a + 2
[22:01] <NigeyS> ahhh
[22:01] <fsphil> you'd need to change that to + 4
[22:01] <fsphil> that's to skip all the $'s
[22:01] <Shuffty> in the tinygps library, and I correct in the presumption that (gps.encode(c)) .. where c is a gps_nss.read - that it'll only return true when a sat lock is obtained? :-) Evening all...
[22:01] <NigeyS> done, id never have spotted that lol
[22:01] <fsphil> Shuffty, I believe so. hi hi
[22:01] <Shuffty> lol
[22:01] <Shuffty> thanks fsphil
[22:01] <fsphil> well not a lock, but a data result
[22:02] <fsphil> it may be empty
[22:02] <Shuffty> So even empty data ?
[22:02] <NigeyS> Shuffty, correct, are you trying to get it to send when there's no lock / data ?
[22:02] <fsphil> if you've no lock it may return a lat and lng of zero
[22:02] <fsphil> though don't quote me on that
[22:02] <NigeyS> it should just be a , and ,
[22:03] <NigeyS> $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,,,,,,,*66
[22:03] <fsphil> you think your gps altitude is bad NigeyS, I have moved up 40m i the last 30 seconds
[22:03] <NigeyS> is an empty data string from a lassen
[22:03] <NigeyS> lmao phils on a high !
[22:03] <fsphil> that's what the lassen sends, but what does tinygps do when it gets that?
[22:04] <NigeyS> im still -49 ere, scuba diving!
[22:04] <NigeyS> it sees it as invalid and returns null
[22:04] <NigeyS> i was going to edit it but figured the run up and down the stairs at 3am to put it in the garden was keeping me fit :|
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[22:08] <__shuffty> can somebody explain this .. Serial.print(GPSNSS.read(), BYTE); <--- i understand what it does and how, but what is the BYTE argument?
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[22:11] <fsphil> work in progress: http://i.imgur.com/iwGMT.jpg
[22:11] <fsphil> __shuffty, BYTE tells print() what kind of data is being passed to it
[22:11] <fsphil> more info: http://www.arduino.cc/en/Serial/Print
[22:11] <BrainDamage> rofl @ "HARMLESS" in caps
[22:12] <__shuffty> that makes sense... :-|
[22:12] <__shuffty> Thanks fsphil
[22:12] <fsphil> BrainDamage, well, mostly harmless :)
[22:13] <BrainDamage> if I'd attach that to my typical experiments, it'd be a bold face lie :p
[22:13] <fsphil> I wish I'd put the antenna on before I put the duct tape on
[22:13] Zuph (~bradluyst@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[22:13] <BrainDamage> in fact, I think I'm going to print all the iso warning signs
[22:15] <natrium42> fsphil: what's the reward?
[22:15] <fsphil> depends on how lost it is :)
[22:16] <natrium42> what if it was very lost?
[22:16] <fsphil> hadie:2 is very lost, and is £50
[22:17] <natrium42> ah, cash
[22:17] <fsphil> yea
[22:17] <natrium42> i thought it would be more interesting :P
[22:17] <fsphil> well I could send them a cutting of my hair if you'd think it would help :p
[22:18] <natrium42> haha
[22:20] <fsphil> "This payload carries a curse .. contact 012345666 for the cure"
[22:21] <natrium42> now you're thinking!
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[22:22] <Elwell> where was hadie2 last 'seen'?
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[22:23] <fsphil> over the yorkshire dales
[22:23] <fsphil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/5339784169/in/photostream
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[22:24] <Elwell> ah. kind rambler needed
[22:24] <fsphil> I'm tempted to go over in the summer and have a look around
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[22:26] <MNSP> evening all :)
[22:27] <NigeyS> evening MNSP
[22:27] <MNSP> hey nigeys
[22:28] <MNSP> ordered a gps unit last night, gotta wait now for shipping
[22:28] <NigeyS> ah good, which one did you go for ?
[22:29] <MNSP> gpsbee
[22:29] <NigeyS> aha good choice, 1 that works properly and doesnt have a rubbish antenna!
[22:30] <MNSP> well jcoxon and fsphil advised, i just got my wallet out ;)
[22:30] <fsphil> ublox5-based .. and the antenna can be swapped
[22:31] <fsphil> just wish they where a bit cheaper
[22:31] <MNSP> worked out much cheaper to buy from states in the end fsphil
[22:32] <MNSP> about £40 from US instead of about £75 from france
[22:32] <fsphil> £75?
[22:33] <MNSP> yeah well I wanted antenna too
[22:33] <fsphil> ahh
[22:33] <MNSP> unless....
[22:34] <fsphil> I'm not sure where jcoxon got them -- I think from seeedstudio directly
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[22:35] <fsphil> woo, gps lock again. bit longer this time
[22:35] <fsphil> I think this thing might actually fly
[22:36] <NigeyS> hm
[22:36] <MNSP> oh what a twat! don't know where I got those numbers!!!! its more or less the same price from france and states
[22:36] <MNSP> d'oh
[22:36] <NigeyS> crccat modified, still losing the $$'s and a definate 6 second pause .. very very .. odd
[22:37] <NigeyS> but on the plus side, im not 50 meters under the ocean now
[22:38] <fsphil> can you pastie your code?
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[22:39] <MNSP> oh no, I was right, it was the shipping!! French charge the americans didn't :)
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[22:39] <fsphil> weird!
[22:39] <NigeyS> sure, its only had 4 lines edited today, im in lazy mode haha
[22:40] <NigeyS> http://pastebin.com/2YzNdkMi
[22:40] <NigeyS> round about line 171 is the send sms stuff phil
[22:40] <NigeyS> i added an endsms nss object aswell.. just for good measure after i saw the first line of missing characters
[22:42] <NigeyS> weird that the amound of time it delays, is the exact same delay between the reading of the temp sensors .. 6 seconds
[22:43] <MNSP> which sensors are you using nigeys?
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[22:44] <NigeyS> ive got 2 DS1820S+ sensors
[22:45] <fsphil> hmm.. looks fine
[22:45] <MNSP> thanks, need temp myself and that'll be pretty much me ready to code up
[22:45] <fsphil> try stepping backwards, remove the $$s
[22:45] <fsphil> see if that was the cause
[22:45] <NigeyS> 1821 sorry not 1820
[22:45] <MNSP> ok
[22:46] <NigeyS> remove them from the gps string ?
[22:46] <Elwell> still can't get used to how quick sirf3 chipsets boot and lock. esp compared to my old garmin-48
[22:46] <fsphil> just undo the recent changes until it works again :)
[22:46] Action: NigeyS slaps elwell for having a quick locking gps :p
[22:46] <NigeyS> that means removing the send_sms bit
[22:46] <NigeyS> back to square 1 then
[22:47] <Elwell> NigeyS: EM-406A -- not terribly good at altitude
[22:47] <fsphil> not necessary, you know each bit works -- something simple is going wonrg
[22:47] <NigeyS> very good chips, its a shame their limited :( same as locosys chip i have here, awsome chip but altitude limited
[22:47] <fsphil> stepping back may help reveal it
[22:48] <fsphil> funcube dongle sooo needs filtering
[22:48] <Elwell> NigeyS: I'm just using it as a PPS source
[22:48] <fsphil> my mobile is interfering with it
[22:48] <NigeyS> well stepping back, it'll all work fine if i rmove send_sms .. add send_sms and its 1 line of missing $$'s regardless of how many $$'s i added
[22:49] <fsphil> maybe the string is too long for sms
[22:49] <NigeyS> so.. i have a feeling that nss object isnt ending when it should be
[22:49] <NigeyS> nah sms is 168 characters ?
[22:49] <fsphil> depends on the character set
[22:50] <fsphil> I'm assuming it's sending an 8-bit message, so 140 characters
[22:50] <NigeyS> will fldigi still decode as valid if there's no $$'s ?
[22:50] <fsphil> that's still a lot
[22:50] <fsphil> nope
[22:51] <fsphil> you can skip them for the sms though
[22:51] <NigeyS> hm.. well, im thinking, its going to lose gsm after 1000ft max
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[22:51] <NigeyS> its only in the rtty their missing btw, the sms has the full line
[22:52] <NigeyS> unless .. their being cleaned up by the sms code somehow and its removing it as an invalid character
[22:52] <fsphil> how long is the message anyway?
[22:53] <NigeyS> let me check
[22:53] <NigeyS> 55 chars thats including the checksum
[22:54] <NigeyS> so itll be anywhere between say 50 and 62 chars
[22:54] <fsphil> oh lodsa space
[22:54] <NigeyS> if (data[x] == '$') data[x] = 0x02;
[22:54] <NigeyS> hm
[22:54] <fsphil> btw you don't need smsnss.end(); afer the send_sms() call
[22:54] <fsphil> aaah
[22:54] <NigeyS> thought not, ill take it out now, i just chucked it in in case
[22:54] <fsphil> send_sms is being naughty
[22:55] <NigeyS> i found that hiding!
[22:55] <fsphil> it's changing the string
[22:55] <fsphil> righty, lets just skip the $'s for the sms
[22:55] <NigeyS> yeah i think so
[22:55] <fsphil> send_sms(msg + 4);
[22:56] <fsphil> you know instead of having all these 4's, you should probably make a define and use that instead
[22:56] <NigeyS> haha true, ill have a good code tidyup soon as the bugs are ironed out
[22:58] <NigeyS> blimey the payload temp has only gone down 2 degrees
[22:58] <MNSP> right time for bed, good lcuk with the code nige :)
[22:58] <MNSP> *luck
[22:58] <NigeyS> thanks dude, cya tomorrow!
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[23:16] <fsphil> okie the payload + parachute weights 490g .. a bit lighter than last time
[23:16] <fsphil> wasn't expecting that
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[23:22] <NigeyS> oo super lightweight
[23:22] <NigeyS> i think ats-1 is overweight for its 600g balloon :|
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> I dunno.
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> It would be interesting to get some numbers. I mean - a 1200g balloon pops at what - 10m diameter
[23:23] <NigeyS> think thats about right yeah
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> Obviously if you fill it with 500m^3 of gas, you're not going to lift a small car.
[23:23] <SpeedEvil> But where does it go pop?
[23:23] <NigeyS> hm good question
[23:24] <NigeyS> phil, fixed the missing $$'s !
[23:24] <hibby> our third launch (that hasn't been up yet) is supposed to be <500g
[23:24] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, if i come in at say 800g, i just lose altitude right ?
[23:25] <hibby> using 2 balloons as well
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[23:25] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:25] <NigeyS> hibby, that's gonna be interesting!
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS:
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: And of course need more ass.
[23:25] <SpeedEvil> gas.
[23:25] <NigeyS> ooerr mr lol
[23:25] <NigeyS> more gas in my ass .. ta
[23:25] <hibby> NigeyS: aye. One to get it up to 15k quickly, cutdown/pop, and then one to take it to (hopefully) high-as-fuck.
[23:26] <NigeyS> ahh good plan hibby, i think quite a few here will be keen to see the data on that !
[23:26] Action: SpeedEvil wonders again how to ensure a clean release from a popping balloon
[23:26] <hibby> NigeyS: the launch window is the next 2 weeks, most likely this weekend / early enxt week
[23:27] <NigeyS> sweet!
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> (without sensors and stuff)
[23:27] <NigeyS> fair point SpeedEvil
[23:27] <hibby> it's a really nice unit, electronics are a bit lacking, but I didn't get a pcb made so it;s my fault...
[23:27] <fsphil> hey I'm using stripboard here :) looks ugly but works
[23:27] <NigeyS> ats-1 will be stripboard phil
[23:27] <hibby> fsphil: that's what we've got, but it's the arduino mega that bothers me
[23:28] <NigeyS> haha i ditched the mega for stripboard
[23:28] <hibby> indeed. I like using just the atmega328 on stripboard... it's a brilliant way of managing things
[23:29] <hibby> I'm not bothered by having my own vregs involved and so on.
[23:30] <hibby> but it should be an interesting lauch
[23:30] <NigeyS> im quite comfy with mine now, as to what happens when i solder it all together mind .. that's another story
[23:30] <NigeyS> www.amateurdeepfield.org/waterfall.png
[23:30] <NigeyS> interesting
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[23:31] <fsphil> gaps are normal :)
[23:31] <fsphil> unless you've got interrupt driven rtty
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> I think that's data edge sidebands
[23:31] <NigeyS> not that 6 second gap
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> oh
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> no - not that
[23:32] <NigeyS> that only occurs after a sms line is sent
[23:32] <NigeyS> seems fairly noisy though ?
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> Well - it is a ~2W transmitter.
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> Some of that may be artifacts due to overloading
[23:33] <NigeyS> ohh i see
[23:33] <fsphil> yea
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[23:33] <fsphil> the ntx2 has quite a few harmonics itself
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> Also - if you modulate a signal at 50hz - you get harmonics of the data popping out I think
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> Or I may be confused
[23:34] <fsphil> so the delay is during the sms_send() ?
[23:34] <NigeyS> well i guess a 6 second gap every 20 lines isnt going to hurt, its not garbling, and sms is coming through ok, im quite content leaving it at that for the first flight
[23:34] <NigeyS> yeah phil
[23:34] <Sab> Hello!!
[23:34] <NigeyS> i cant work out if its before or after the sms is actually recieved by the phone
[23:34] <fsphil> well there's 4500ms worth of delay() in send_sms() so that's to be expected
[23:35] <fsphil> it's just a slow function
[23:35] <NigeyS> solved then, i saw the delays, but didnt realise theyd turn into a rtty pause
[23:35] <fsphil> you could avoid calling it if the altitude is above a certain rate
[23:35] <NigeyS> hey Sab
[23:35] <Sab> :)
[23:35] <fsphil> rate* value
[23:35] <fsphil> no point trying above 4km :)
[23:35] <NigeyS> may do that, any ideas on oranges gsm limit ?
[23:35] <fsphil> no idea
[23:36] <Sab> Hey!! I am currently starting work on a HAB experiment and someone gave me the link to this chat room. He said it will be of great help to me
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> Maybe.
[23:36] <Sab> The experiment will be done as part of my final masters thesis
[23:36] <NigeyS> ill have a looksi, if not, as you said between 2 and 4km should be a safe bet
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> Does it involve genetically engineered chickens with the legs of velociraptors?
[23:36] <NigeyS> Sab, have you had a good read of wiki.ukhas.org.uk ?
[23:36] <NigeyS> lmao speedy!
[23:37] <Sab> Not really. I kinda just ran quickly through the pages
[23:37] <fsphil> what kind of experiment are you thinking of doing?
[23:38] <NigeyS> brb better get the payload in before it gets a REAL soak test
[23:38] <Sab> We want to launch the experiment as a precursor to a cubesat mission. basically testing cubesat technologies at altitudes of about 35km (near space environment) and if they work at this altitude it will be safe to assme that they will work in space
[23:39] <Sab> we haven't quite decided on a payload yet
[23:39] <hibby> hehe, sounds uncannily similar to what we do
[23:39] <hibby> next year, there's talk of our physics department getting involved and trying some quantum experiments in freefal, hence tomorrow's launch
[23:39] <Sab> but there a some candidate payloads like triple junction solar cell and passively deployable structures
[23:39] <hibby> I'll be long gone by then, i suspect
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> Sab: Well.... The thermal environment is a bit different. As is the radiation.
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> Sab: Can you buy triple junction cells commercially?
[23:40] <Sab> nope,,the university I study in already has them
[23:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:40] Action: SpeedEvil has a back-of-the-envelope only design for a sat.
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> I'd love to fles it out prroperly.
[23:41] <SpeedEvil> flesh.
[23:41] <hibby> SpeedEvil: just buy the components OTS from Clyde Space...
[23:41] <Sab> lol, I was about to ask what's fles
[23:41] <hibby> not that I have any involvement there, at all.
[23:41] <NigeyS> triple what? :|
[23:41] <hibby> ....
[23:41] <fsphil> distilled?
[23:42] <NigeyS> btw im the thick one sab .. lol
[23:42] <Sab> lol
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> Triple junction cells are wacky solar cells.
[23:42] <NigeyS> oo i like wacky
[23:42] <fsphil> better than your average cells?
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> They have an IR solar cell on the bottom, followed by a green and a blue one on top
[23:42] <fsphil> aah the mars rovers use those
[23:42] <SpeedEvil> About double the output per unit area.
[23:42] <NigeyS> oh my
[23:43] <NigeyS> their gonna cost a few bob :p
[23:43] <fsphil> you won't be powering your house from them for a while anyway
[23:43] <fsphil> which is a shame
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> I don't think so.
[23:43] <NigeyS> dam :(
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> The volume of triple junction cells is never going to be close.
[23:44] <NigeyS> i was thinking of flying an ozone sensor
[23:44] Action: SpeedEvil is depressed about the current solar regime inthe UK.
[23:44] <fsphil> suspending one from a balloon is interesting, but would you not be worried about the inevitable introduction with the ground?
[23:44] <NigeyS> bubble wrap phil! lol bill style
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> We should basically putthe widespread deployment off until solar cells come down to under half their current price.
[23:44] Action: hibby checks out hamlib again
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> Sab: I suppose a fairly small wind-shield could get you a few seconds of ~ weightlessness.
[23:45] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, have you seen the stupid deals theyre doing with solar? free but you have to have it for 25 years even if you sell your house! :o
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[23:45] <fsphil> I'm gonna add some bubble wrap to the inside of hadie:3, stop it giggling about
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> I _deeply_ object to paying 40p/Kwh for rich people to put panels on their roofs.
[23:46] <Sab> interesting....
[23:46] <fsphil> it'll take me 20 years for my 550W array to pay for itself at the current rates
[23:46] <NigeyS> amen to that speedy!
[23:46] <fsphil> 40p/Kwh?
[23:46] <fsphil> that's bad
[23:46] <Sab> but I dont think we're interested in the weightlessness...its more the radiation and theral effects we're interested in
[23:47] <NigeyS> thats very very expensive, we pay 14.7 i think
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: That is the price I'm buying power - indirectly - from solar-PV people.
[23:47] <NigeyS> ah
[23:47] <fsphil> ooch
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Admittedly only a small fataction of my electriciry is that.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Fraction.
[23:47] <NigeyS> screw it im building my own bloody windmill!
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> I was looking at using LiFePO4 cells the other day to time-shift cheap electrricity to day-rate
[23:48] <hibby> wind turbine! not windmill! :op
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> It actually is borderline on paying back.
[23:48] <fsphil> the amount NIE (our local electricity monopoly) pay us for is about half if what they charge us
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> But with no profit.
[23:48] <hibby> but that's just me being pedantic and electrical-engineery
[23:48] <NigeyS> nah definately a windmill, i can grind seed to flour!! lol
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I'd love to get back what I paid.
[23:48] <hibby> aww hell yes
[23:49] <NigeyS> sod selling electric, cmon guys lets sell flour!
[23:49] <fsphil> I wouldn't mind if the exported energy was the same price as imported
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: If I use non-certified kit - I get back 3p/Kwh. With certified kit - it's 40p/Kwh - but the kit is ~10* as expensive.
[23:49] <fsphil> aah
[23:49] <fsphil> 3p/kwh is pretty bad, nie's is more like 7p/kwh
[23:49] <fsphil> but that's no matter what equipment you have
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> If I could use non-certified panels, and get the normal solar rates, I could have panels that would pay back in under a yrear - in scotland.
[23:50] <NigeyS> Sab, radiation effects on AVRS would be a good study .. standard commercial atmega 328's .. :D
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> (largely DIY panels, self-assembled)
[23:50] <fsphil> 5.49p/kWh to be exact
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Sab: Radiation in space and in upper atmosphere are basically _totally_ different unfortunately.
[23:50] <fsphil> urg
[23:51] <fsphil> yea there's quite a bit more a little further up
[23:51] <NigeyS> so you use your own you get 3p, use "official" ones, you get 40p ?
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> I'm paying - IIRC - 14p/KWh for the first 2 units a day, then 9p for the remainder.
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: yes.
[23:51] <NigeyS> thats absolutely scandalous, i honestly didn't realise it was THAT bad
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> I _hate_ the current structure of the market with no clear 'standing charges'
[23:51] <Sab> really...that how naive I am...my tutor reckons that altitudes of about 35km are good enough as near space environment simulators and certainly better than on the ground testing
[23:52] <NigeyS> 35KM is hard to get to, realistically look at getting to 30 / 32 .. anything higher is pure luck
[23:52] <hibby> Sab: it'd be a good project to prove him wrong
[23:52] <fsphil> you'll be lucky to get to 35km to be honest
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Sab: I've not looked into it in detail - but as I understand it there are some classes of radiation that are utterly absent inthe atmosphere.
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Sab: For example - energetic particles.
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> Sab: What altitude is this going to?
[23:52] <hibby> if one of my guys came and said "here's why your assumptions are wrong" I'd be like... "Nice one, dude"
[23:53] <fsphil> heh, if only we had more people like you in our office hibby
[23:53] <NigeyS> iirc cosmic rays at 35k are mainly scattered into their particles ?
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> >35 needs _way_ more stuff
[23:53] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: yes.
[23:53] <Sab> lol......so you guys are saying that there is no balloon out there that will take a payload of about 1.5kg to 35km altitude?
[23:53] <hibby> Sab: the challenge is to make one ;)
[23:53] <fsphil> there is .. but it'll be interesting :)
[23:53] <Sab> :)
[23:53] <fsphil> interesting in a ... holy crap that's big and complicated and why did I get involved in this .. kind of way
[23:54] <NigeyS> lol
[23:54] <hibby> Sab: tomorrow we're testing a carrier / payload, where the payload is cut off at 30km
[23:54] <fsphil> PBH in the states recently got above 40km
[23:54] <hibby> as a precursor to the freefall physics experiment development
[23:54] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, any idea at what altitude they stay intact ?
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Atmospheric pressure is ~7mB or so ? at 35km. That's the equivalent of 7cm of water in terms of mass shielding.
[23:54] <NigeyS> aha, yes
[23:54] <Sab> where are you testing it?
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Which means you get almost no 'shallowly' penetrating stuff, you only get high penetration stuff, and 'daughters'
[23:55] <fsphil> speaking of tomorrow (today) g'night folks!
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: And wierd shit like muons.
[23:55] <hibby> Sab: We're a Scottish Uni, and our students are launching from the East Coast, roughly Edinburgh
[23:55] <NigeyS> nn phil!
[23:55] <hibby> nn fsphil
[23:55] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, i see .. hmm got me thinking now
[23:55] <NigeyS> on a muon detector
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> That might be fun, yes.
[23:56] <Sab> thats miles away from me!! I am in cranfield university
[23:56] <SpeedEvil> You can measure muon decay.
[23:56] <NigeyS> yup
[23:56] <NigeyS> im sure this is a hack job with a few geigers again ?
[23:56] <hibby> Sab: rings a bell... UKUbe involvement?
[23:56] <NigeyS> but 500v each scares the crap outta me
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Just on't lick it.
[23:57] <NigeyS> lol oh no intention, but its worth thinking about, if you can gate them ...
[23:58] <Sab> hibby: yes
[23:59] <hibby> Sab: cool. I'm pretty involved in the comms/power teams up here for it.
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 14 2011