highaltitude.log.20110411

[00:01] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: http://plixi.com/p/91380962 Antenna testing on this fine spring sunday. #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/57231634038136832]
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[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[04:42] <stilldavid> AX.25 is hard
[04:45] <Zupht0r> stilldavid: AX.25 is the most ridiculous, crappiest protocol ever devised.
[04:45] <Zupht0r> I hate it.
[04:46] <stilldavid> I'm about to give up and buy one of these: https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=136&osCsid=e3bf8b24a41638c63ad6807805899998
[04:46] <stilldavid> I think I can design a smaller non-shield board around the chip and resistors
[04:47] <stilldavid> Zupht0r: are y'all throwing APRS on your payload?
[04:47] <Zupht0r> Nope
[04:47] <Zupht0r> It'll be useless in 5 hours :-p
[04:47] <stilldavid> makes sense :)
[04:47] <stilldavid> I'm going trans-continental, so it's a tad more useful
[04:47] Action: stilldavid isn't thinking tonight
[04:48] <stilldavid> I should just get a micro-trak and be done with it, really
[04:48] <stilldavid> I've got more pressing matters to deal with than APRS
[04:48] <stilldavid> like, y'know, everything else :)
[04:49] <Zupht0r> Yeah
[04:49] <Zupht0r> Micro-trak is the way to go, really
[04:49] <stilldavid> they're out of the US version currently :(
[04:49] <Zupht0r> If you get the Micro-trak + the micro-pak chip, you can pump arbitrary data into the APRS stream
[04:49] <stilldavid> as I've got an HX1, I just emailed to see if I can get a kit sans-radio for a bit cheaper
[04:49] <stilldavid> oh? that's what I was worried about
[04:50] <stilldavid> I saw the weather one, didn't catch the micro-pak
[04:50] Action: stilldavid looks
[04:50] <Zupht0r> Yep. Get the mirco-pak
[04:50] <Zupht0r> *micro
[04:50] <Zupht0r> they guy is kind of a dick, though.
[04:50] <stilldavid> well, crap. I doubt he'll let me get just the board then
[04:50] <Zupht0r> Meh, worth asking
[04:51] <stilldavid> I was real nice in the email :)
[04:53] <stilldavid> can't seem to find the micro-pak, is it in a PDF somewhere?
[04:55] <stilldavid> ah, I just see that it exists, not any documentation about it
[04:55] <stilldavid> nevermind. one word, TinyPack. I need some sleep.
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[05:10] <stilldavid> alright, giving up on AX.25 forever now. on to bigger things.
[05:10] <stilldavid> and now: sleep
[05:10] <stilldavid> 'nite all
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[07:09] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon "[UKHAS] Chase Cars via dl-fldigi/spacenear.us"
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[07:48] <griffonbot> Received email: Terry Baume "Re: [UKHAS] Chase Cars via dl-fldigi/spacenear.us"
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[08:42] <griffonbot> @jgrahamc: RT @fsphil: Hellschreiber from GAGA-1: http://bit.ly/eFYdo4 - weak at this distance but some clear text showing through. #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jgrahamc/status/57362964960919552]
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[09:06] <gb73d> is there a launch today from strathclyde ?
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[09:12] <fsphil> good question
[09:18] <fsphil> yay, the google maps satellite photo of Cookstown's been updated .. you can actually see the town now
[09:18] <fsphil> though it's ancient data, +10 years old
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[09:45] <jgrahamc> Morning
[09:46] <fsphil> morning jgrahamc
[09:47] <jgrahamc> Were you able to hear GAGA-1 yesterday?
[09:48] <fsphil> yea, pretty well too
[09:49] <eroomde> morning jgrahamc
[09:50] <jgrahamc> Morning eroomde. Thanks so much for all your help yesterday!
[09:50] <eroomde> any time
[09:51] <jgrahamc> Great fsphil, that was from pretty far away!
[09:52] <fsphil> jgrahamc, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ua21FSnIXc
[09:55] <jgrahamc> That is cool.
[09:57] <jgrahamc> What antenna were you using for that?
[09:57] <jgrahamc> Ah. There it is right at the end
[09:57] <jgrahamc> Lovely.
[09:58] <fsphil> hehe -- 10 element yagi, Diamond A430S10R
[10:39] <Upu> thats what I use
[10:39] <Upu> but not on the GAGA launch
[10:45] <fsphil> at home I use the colinear
[10:45] <fsphil> I can't get the yagi high enough to clear the surrounding buildings
[10:47] <eroomde> fsphil: that looks like a nice tracking spot you've got
[10:48] <Upu> how high is it fsphil ?
[10:48] <fsphil> that spot is 340m I think
[10:49] <fsphil> there's a higher up spot but it doesn't have a great view towards cambridge
[10:50] <fsphil> seen a car loaded with antennas heading up there, so apparently a popular spot for hams :)
[10:50] <Upu> I'm at 180m at the house
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[10:51] <eroomde> we could never get permission to mount a permenant pan tilt yagi stack on the department roof
[10:51] <eroomde> which is a sad thing
[10:51] <eroomde> would be nice to have a completely automated listening station
[10:52] <Upu> well if I can find a nice cheap and small rotator I might put the Yagi up on the roof
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[10:55] <fsphil> the commercial ones to seem a tad expensive
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[10:59] <Shuffty> Commercial what fsphil?
[11:01] <fsphil> antenna rotators
[11:02] <Shuffty> Ah.. :-)
[11:03] <eroomde> fsphil: agreed
[11:04] <eroomde> but then there's only so much free time for projects
[11:04] <eroomde> i guess an old exterior cctv unit could be a good rotator
[11:08] <fsphil> I'd thought about using a satellite dish rotator - they're a good bit cheaper
[11:08] <griffonbot> Received email: Daniel Richman "Re: [UKHAS] Chase Cars via dl-fldigi/spacenear.us"
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[11:14] <jgrahamc> Something odd happened to the back up cellular computer in GAGA-1. Log file shows that it worked flawlessly (including doing a cold GPS reset at high altitude to get round the COCOM limit) and went through its state machine nicely.
[11:14] <jgrahamc> Got one SMS from it when it was close to the ground. It was in the process of sending an SMS at 186m when it died. Oddly the power was still on on the ground, but I guess the jolt made the Telit module unhappy.
[11:14] <jgrahamc> Bloody hardware.
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Why do you think it was inthe process of sending?
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[11:18] <SpeedEvil> Could the GPS be lagging behind?
[11:22] <jgrahamc> It was writing a log to non-volatile memory and I have the log file. It shows that the last function called was my SMS sending function and gives the string it was trying to send.
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[11:24] <Laurenceb_> might be the gsm hardware drew a ton of power to try and tx the message
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> and the cold battery couldnt givew enough juice
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> telit modules draw massive current spikes
[11:27] <jgrahamc> Perhaps. Although I received an SMS from it a minute before giving its location. I agree that they need a ton of current.
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> Is it possible the modem lost signal?
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[11:29] <jgrahamc> Two reasons I don't think that's the case: the log file would have shown it and in the field where it landed there was 3G access.
[11:29] <jgrahamc> Also, it did not restart sending text messages afterwards.
[11:30] Nick change: ms7821_ -> ms7821
[11:34] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
[11:35] <jgrahamc> Afternoon
[11:36] <NigelMoby> I've had a visit from my neighbour lol
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> 'WTF are you doing?'
[11:42] <NigelMoby> Noo, the old lady next door.. oddly, has offered me the use of her washing line pole for the Yagi...hers is about 6ft higher than mine and allows me to clear the roofline. Yet yesterday she moaned it was an ugly eyesoar...
[11:51] <hibby> chaps and chapesses... quick bit of advice...
[11:53] <hibby> the students that buggered their GPS are getting quite desparate and are looking at other options... This is the one they're after: http://proto-pic.co.uk/products/50-Channel-GS407-Helical-GPS-Receiver.html
[11:54] <hibby> the datasheet is shite, so I can't see any ceiling altitude - is the falcom module unique in the world of ublox modules for it's high altitude capabilities?
[11:54] <jonsowman> no, there are many
[11:54] <jonsowman> that one is uBlox 5 so it should be fine
[11:54] <jonsowman> be aware that the uBlox 5 chipsets require being put into nav mode before they will work above 60kft
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[11:56] <hibby> jonsowman: aye, cool
[11:57] <hibby> cheers. They're a touch stressed. Also ordered an ntx-2 so they don't need to do cw
[11:58] <jonsowman> I'm a fan of the Lassen iQ from Trimble
[11:59] <NigelMoby> Oo Jon ..
[11:59] <jonsowman> has proved itself over and over again, low current draw, fast TTFF, no messing around with config settings to make it work above 60kft
[11:59] <DanielRichman> +1
[12:00] <NigelMoby> Re the lassen.. mine still isn't liking Nss.
[12:01] <fsphil> the problem there is nss .. not the lassen
[12:01] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: the lassen will just spit out NMEA sentences, it's probably not the lassen which is at fault
[12:01] <NigelMoby> If I can't fix it via interrupts it may well be a side effect of the atmega at 3.3
[12:01] <jgrahamc> GAGA-1 yesterday was using a Lassen IQ sending TSIP
[12:01] <jgrahamc> Worked a treat.
[12:01] <jonsowman> they are great GPS modules
[12:02] <NigelMoby> So I see
[12:02] <jonsowman> NigelMoby: I assume nss is set up with the correct serial parameters?
[12:04] <NigelMoby> Hehe oh yes, I've got more testing to do today, as we discovered the garbled occurs weather the lassen is rxing or not.
[12:04] <NigelMoby> Txing
[12:05] <fsphil> the issue is the nss interrupts are taking too long, messing up the rtty timing
[12:06] <DanielRichman> haven't other people just switched nss off while they tx a string, switch it back on, get gps, switch off, tx, repeat?
[12:06] <NigelMoby> But.. Phil... it occurred yesterday when we disabled all gps code from the script and just had the lassen powered, it garbled the rtty starting message
[12:06] <fsphil> that would be the ideal solution
[12:06] <DanielRichman> NigelMoby: but did you set up newsoftserial?
[12:06] <DanielRichman> or had you even commented that out ?
[12:06] <fsphil> did you remove the nss object?
[12:07] <NigelMoby> Tried that Dan, no joy.
[12:07] <DanielRichman> if the nss object is initialised it will grab interrupts.
[12:07] <NigelMoby> Yes I cleared Nss.* functions
[12:07] <DanielRichman> why don't you try putting cli(); before you rtty, and sei(); after?
[12:07] <DanielRichman> (actually I think a few arduino functions might depend on it)...
[12:08] <fsphil> yea, tried disabling timer0 and it just doesn't so anything
[12:08] <NigelMoby> Well so far we tried Nss.end and Nss.begin
[12:08] <fsphil> the delay function uses timer0 I believe
[12:08] <DanielRichman> do you use delay or delayMicroseconds in order to rtty?
[12:08] <DanielRichman> i believe the latter uses a nop loop
[12:09] <fsphil> ooh
[12:09] <fsphil> that might work
[12:09] <NigelMoby> Ohh
[12:09] <DanielRichman> otoh I think it might re-enable interrupts
[12:09] <DanielRichman> lemme see
[12:09] <fsphil> though I still think it would be easier to modify nss so you can set/unset a flag that stops the interrupts doing anything
[12:10] <NigelMoby> Think it might be
[12:10] <NigelMoby> I did a lot of code work Saturday Phil
[12:10] <jgrahamc> The version of NSS I used as .begin(BAUD) and .end() methods.
[12:11] <eroomde> We used a Lassen iQ for about 8 flights with the Badger 1 flight computer. It worked fine most of the time, though I definitely prefer uBlox's.
[12:11] <NigelMoby> Same ver Jon, and I called them directly before and after rtty_send
[12:12] <NigelMoby> Ed. This module maybe introduced to a hammer soon.
[12:13] <DanielRichman> NSS::end() seems to disable the interrupts.
[12:13] <Upu> anyone got an upto date mail to send NOTAMS too ? ausops@dap.caa.co.uk bounces
[12:13] <NigelMoby> Hm then its puzzling
[12:13] <DanielRichman> It clears the flag that it set in order to get interrupts
[12:13] <DanielRichman> wait a second
[12:14] <Upu> This is because the email domain of dap.caa.co.uk is no longer active within the Civil Aviation Authority. Hmm, I'll try without the dap but
[12:14] <Upu> bit
[12:14] <fsphil> Upu, ausops@caa.co.uk
[12:14] <Upu> cheers
[12:15] <DanielRichman> nah it doesn't
[12:15] <DanielRichman> this is odd
[12:15] <fsphil> yea it's weird code
[12:15] <DanielRichman> so this is from NSS::begin():
[12:15] <DanielRichman> *digitalPinToPCICR(_receivePin) |= _BV(digitalPinToPCICRbit(_receivePin));
[12:15] <DanielRichman> *digitalPinToPCMSK(_receivePin) |= _BV(digitalPinToPCMSKbit(_receivePin));
[12:15] <NigelMoby> Oh? End doesn't clear?
[12:15] <DanielRichman> PCICR is interrupt control
[12:15] <DanielRichman> PCMSK is mask
[12:15] <DanielRichman> (multiple pins on one interrupt)
[12:15] <DanielRichman> so it enables the interrupt, then enables those pins to trigger that interrupt
[12:15] <DanielRichman> here's NSS::end():
[12:15] <DanielRichman> if (digitalPinToPCMSK(_receivePin))
[12:15] <DanielRichman> *digitalPinToPCMSK(_receivePin) &= ~_BV(digitalPinToPCMSKbit(_receivePin));
[12:16] <NigelMoby> Hmm
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[12:18] <DanielRichman> NigelMoby: try putting NSS::active_object = 0; after you call NSS::end()
[12:18] <NigelMoby> Oki ill give it a go
[12:18] <DanielRichman> or perhaps NewSoftSerial::active_object = 0
[12:18] <DanielRichman> either way you need to reference the class not your nss object
[12:19] <NigelMoby> Ahh Oki will do, gimme 5 to jump on the desktop
[12:20] <fsphil> isn't active_object private?
[12:20] <DanielRichman> Hmm
[12:20] <DanielRichman> yeah it is
[12:21] <DanielRichman> we could define void NewSoftSerial::gtfo() { active_object = 0; } then call NewSoftSerial::gtfo(); ?
[12:21] <jonsowman> lol
[12:21] <fsphil> lol
[12:21] <NigelMoby> Lol
[12:21] <DanielRichman> I can't remember if you're allowed to put that kind of function anywhere you like
[12:21] <fsphil> worth a try
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[12:30] <Laurenceb_> arg stupid farnell minimum order of £20
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Dealextreme haveno minimum order.
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> i need diodes
[12:34] <Laurenceb_> i could try and get a trade account
[12:36] <Laurenceb_> but you need a company address :S
[12:36] <Laurenceb_> guess ill use rs and walk down to the trade counter
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[12:43] <Laurenceb_> anyone want anything from farnell?
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> i need another £10 of orders
[12:44] <NigeyS> oo yes ...
[12:44] <NigeyS> do they do an sma to sma 50ohm patch cable ?
[12:45] <Laurenceb_> probably
[12:45] <Laurenceb_> if you send me the order codes
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> can you pay me later via paypal?
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> RS dont sell JST PH series crimps, so im going to have to go with farnell
[12:46] <Laurenceb_> well unless i misse dhtem - rs is a disorganise dmess
[12:49] <NigeyS> sure, let me find an order code
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[12:54] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[12:54] <NigeyS> meh nm they dont do sma to sma :/
[12:56] <NigeyS> i do need some 28pin dips for the atmega328 but £10 worth would be a hell of alot! lol
[12:56] <Laurenceb_> well, i need just over £9
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> i think they've increased the minimum order, sure it used toi be less
[12:57] <NigeyS> hmm trying to think if i need anything else, farnells search thing really is off putting
[13:00] <eroomde> temperature sensors
[13:00] <eroomde> always useful
[13:01] <eroomde> a good paiur of tweezers for manipulating wee components
[13:01] <eroomde> an arduino
[13:01] <NigeyS> haha i have all those
[13:01] <eroomde> next time you need to bodge something mechatronicy in a hurry
[13:01] <NigeyS> wow 15quid for a ntype pcb connector .. 3quid at rapid :|
[13:01] <jgrahamc> SMA connectors
[13:02] <jgrahamc> Yes, but Farnell actually has it in stock :-)
[13:02] <NigeyS> so d rapid
[13:02] <NigeyS> rapidonline are always in stock when i order
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[13:03] <Laurenceb_> oh rapid i forgot about them
[13:03] <Laurenceb_> but no chance theyll have JST crimps
[13:04] <NigeyS> i think they do
[13:07] <jgrahamc> Lesson #1 from GAGA-1: paint the capsule fluorescent yellow; also take eroomde with you so he spots the thing at 1/2 mile :-)
[13:07] <jonsowman> :)
[13:08] <Laurenceb_> they dont
[13:08] <jgrahamc> The reason GAGA-1 came down so fast just might be that there was over 1kg of balloon still attached
[13:09] <NigeyS> meh i alos notice jst crimps are hard to find .. and very expensive
[13:09] <NigeyS> jgrahamc, program in a cut down that immediately cuts the ballon line when it detects a deescent ?
[13:09] <NigeyS> saves tangling to
[13:10] <jgrahamc> Yes, I think that might be a good lesson.
[13:10] <jgrahamc> Or go for the simple solution: bigger parachute.
[13:11] <NigeyS> cutdown = £5 worth of components .. larger chute = £30+
[13:11] <NigeyS> ;)
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> farnell 1671245 is the only i can find
[13:12] <jgrahamc> I agree on the price, but I'm guessing that the chute has a higher probability of working than the cutdown.
[13:12] <jgrahamc> Anyhow, not a bad idea. Will consider it for GAGA-10.
[13:13] <Upu> I like the idea of a cut down
[13:14] <Upu> my concern is running wires up to the cut off bit and how to respond fast enough to a burst
[13:14] <Upu> xbee blue tooth powered cut off was on my list
[13:16] <NigeyS> ohh, thats an interesting idea
[13:16] <NigeyS> i def dont like the explosive cutdown ..
[13:16] <Upu> the cut off isn't wired to the payload
[13:16] <Upu> have to be explosive if you're responding to a burst or it won't cut quick enough
[13:16] <NigeyS> nichrome wont heat in time ?
[13:17] <Upu> nah I did some tests and powered from normal AA's it takes 5-6 secs at normal temps
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Or servo or solenoid
[13:17] <SpeedEvil> Or fuse
[13:17] <NigeyS> Upu, dam i thought it would be a few secs max
[13:17] <Upu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptSeH6F3VEo
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> or resistor
[13:17] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, fuse ?
[13:17] <Upu> mechanical cut is an idea
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> ive always used resistors
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: A loop of wire that is rapidly blown by current
[13:18] <NigeyS> what about that magnetic cutdown i saw being looked at?
[13:18] <NigeyS> ahh
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: not that slowly melts
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> so, anyone want to add to a farnell order?
[13:18] <NigeyS> that'd work nicely
[13:18] <NigeyS> Laurenceb_, im just looking, may just get some stripboard
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[13:19] <NigeyS> and a socket for the atmega328 if they do them singly
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[13:27] <Laurenceb_> codez?
[13:29] <NigeyS> meh they dont do the sockets, only from the u.s
[13:29] <NigeyS> either way ii want 1 of thsese .. for the c/w beacon im doing 1636933
[13:30] <fsphil> what size of socket?
[13:30] <Laurenceb_> eek price has gone up a lot
[13:31] <NigeyS> 28pin phil
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> i have sockets here
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> i can ship you one spare
[13:31] <fsphil> ah, dont' have those
[13:31] <NigeyS> id be greatful for it, coolcomponents sent me a new chip but no socket!
[13:31] Action: Laurenceb_ has about 50
[13:31] <NigeyS> if youhave 2? :D
[13:31] <Laurenceb_> sure np
[13:32] <NigeyS> 1201473
[13:32] <NigeyS> and 1 of those pls
[13:33] <NigeyS> if that doesnt get you over, just add a 20mhz crystal or something..lol
[13:33] <Laurenceb_> ta, if you pay by paypal i guess
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> ill chuck in a couple of dip28 socket for you
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> *sockets
[13:34] <NigeyS> see ure pm
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[13:37] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[13:53] <Laurenceb_> its not accepting the order still... grrr
[13:55] <Laurenceb_> hmm farnell seems to have died :(
[13:57] <NigeyS> :o
[13:58] <fsphil> wasn't me
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[14:01] <NigeyS> phil .. ...~gMMZLtart#ng Tsting AT-1 1OiTTYgMM|
[14:01] <NigeyS> fun fun
[14:02] <fsphil> what did you change?
[14:05] <NigeyS> dans helping with changing the nss.cpp directly .. no joy, but disable nss completely leaving the lassen plugged in and it decodes fine, so def a software issue
[14:05] <hibby> negotiating launch dates for the next SUNSET launches
[14:07] <fsphil> yar, interrupts can be a pain
[14:08] <fsphil> sweet hibby
[14:08] <hibby> looking to be Weds/Thurs from scotland's east coast
[14:09] <fsphil> predictions heading west?
[14:11] <hibby> as far as I know. They're not wanting a splashdown - this is the exciting one... balloon carrying a payload to be dropped at height
[14:11] <jgrahamc> NigeyS: this is very similar to the issue I had. Essentially the interrupts from the Lassen were missing up the timing on the RTTY
[14:12] <NigeyS> see why i hate the lassen ?
[14:12] <NigeyS> lol
[14:12] <NigeyS> its a pain
[14:14] <fsphil> it's not the lassen :p
[14:14] <fsphil> this would happen to you with any gps device
[14:15] <jgrahamc> Agree. It's an interaction between the NewSoftSerial handling of interrupts and the RTTY timing.
[14:15] <NigeyS> nope phil
[14:15] <NigeyS> i had the locosys working on nss perfectly
[14:16] <NigeyS> and the t68
[14:16] <jgrahamc> How often did they send data?
[14:17] <NigeyS> locosys was 9600 baud, couldnt drop it any lower, i tried the trimble software to increase the lassen to 9600 but it refused to update the flash settings
[14:18] <jgrahamc> Was it sending data frequently?
[14:19] <hibby> that is the only joy of the arduino mega... multiple serial ports
[14:20] <NigeyS> every second john
[14:21] <fsphil> something in the 9600 baud rate must have allowed it to work
[14:21] <NigeyS> yups
[14:21] <fsphil> though that's not something to rely on
[14:21] <jgrahamc> Interesting. Well, I'm stumped.
[14:21] <NigeyS> i did jus notice a shift on the waterfall when i plugged in the lassen and a noticeable audible change in frequency aswell
[14:21] <fsphil> the length of the interrupt may just be short enough to allow rtty to work
[14:22] <fsphil> that's normal .. power drain will cause the voltage to wander a bit
[14:22] <NigeyS> ahh oki
[14:22] <fsphil> mine did that until I swapped for a bigger regulator
[14:23] <fsphil> the only sure way of fixing it is to stop the nss interrupts, or make them return instantly
[14:23] <fsphil> for the time when your transmitting
[14:23] <fsphil> then you can use any baud rate
[14:23] <NigeyS> i think thats what dans been adding to the nss.cpp
[14:23] <NigeyS> nss.end();
[14:23] <NigeyS> rtty_send(msg);
[14:23] <NigeyS> nss.begin(4800);
[14:23] <NigeyS> previousMillis = currentMillis;
[14:23] <NigeyS> }
[14:23] <fsphil> yea
[14:24] <fsphil> looks good
[14:24] <NigeyS> and the initial begin is ..
[14:24] <fsphil> also although your rtty decoded with nss at 9600, there may still have been timing errors. fldigi is quite forgiving
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[14:25] <NigeyS> true
[14:26] <NigeyS> heres the very first begin
[14:26] <NigeyS> nss.begin(4800);
[14:26] <NigeyS> count = 1;
[14:26] <NigeyS> rtty_send(".... Starting Testing ATS-1 1 Pin RTTY....\n");
[14:26] <NigeyS> }
[14:26] <NigeyS> void loop(void) {
[14:26] <NigeyS> even before the loop so it can send the startup msg
[14:26] <NigeyS> unless i try another end in there ?
[14:26] <jgrahamc> Yes, but there you have nss enabled so you will be getting interrupts from the GPS, no?
[14:27] <jgrahamc> How about put the nss.begin(4800); after that initial RTTY send.
[14:27] <fsphil> you'd be better putting the nss.end and nss.begin in the rtty_send() function
[14:27] <jgrahamc> Agreed
[14:27] <NigeyS> oki let me try
[14:28] <jgrahamc> That's how I did it, fsphil yesterday: https://github.com/jgrahamc/gaga/blob/master/gaga-1/flight/gaga1/rtty.cpp
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[14:36] <NigeyS> progress..
[14:36] <NigeyS> it doesnt garble the fixed statement now
[14:37] <NigeyS> will chuck it outside to get a lock and see if active data is still garbled
[14:37] <jgrahamc> Very good!
[14:39] <fsphil> excellent
[14:40] <fsphil> though old versions of nss don't disable the interrupts in .end()
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[14:49] <NigeyS> right gps in the garden awaiting a lock, will check for garbling after a shower!
[14:54] <fsphil> oh, ARISSat-1 is to be activated today on the ISS in low power mode
[14:54] <fsphil> transmitting SSTV, voice and some data
[14:55] <Laurenceb_> NigeyS: order placed
[14:55] <NigeyS> thanks Laurenceb_ appreciated, will email you my address when i get back
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[15:03] <m1x10> hi all
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[15:11] <fsphil> hi hi m1x10
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/new-arrivals?page=2&pagesize=52&pagesort=relevence
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> top third of page
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/eb-3631-gps-engine-board-module-with-sirf-star-iii-chipset-80039 - for example
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/em-411-gps-engine-board-module-with-sirf-star-iii-chipset-80037 is even more interesting
[15:15] <SpeedEvil> easy pitch connector, wires, built in ant
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[15:36] <jgrahamc> SpeedEvil: watch out for COCOM problems with SiRF Star III
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[15:47] <NigeyS> $$ATS1,36,15:46:46,51.48653,-3.14742,68,23,23,5*5770
[15:47] <NigeyS> $$ATS1,37,15:46:57,51.48655,-3.14742,63,22,23,5*6B81
[15:47] <NigeyS> about bloody time!
[15:48] <NigeyS> thank you all for the help to fix it :)
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[15:49] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: @grindz145 Glad to hear your enjoying it. No I'm not going. Too much Imagine RIT #arhab work to do for K2GXT. [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/57470295870668800]
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[15:52] <jgrahamc> Very nice, NigeyS
[15:53] <NigeyS> dial freq is off a bit mind
[15:53] <NigeyS> 434.651.2
[15:54] <jonsowman> NigeyS: to generate a 1kHz difference tone you need to be tuned 1kHz away from the NTX2 signal frequency
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[15:54] <NigeyS> ahhh
[15:55] <jonsowman> so if the radio was at 434.65000, you'd need to be tuned to 434.65100 to generate the 1kHz audio tone for fldigi
[15:55] <NigeyS> so its actually on 434.650.2 .. ok i got ya
[15:56] <jonsowman> correct, assuming your audio tone is exactly at 1kHz
[15:56] <NigeyS> probably not but it works, im guessing the changes in pitch can be down to the temp adjusting and wind? its quite windy today
[15:57] <jonsowman> temperature changes and physical vibration or knocks will change the oscillator frequency
[15:57] <jonsowman> hence why the audio tone drifts as the balloon rises
[15:58] <NigeyS> okie :D well, im happy now, that irq issues was driving me to depression! lol
[15:58] Zupht0r (~bradluyst@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) joined #highaltitude.
[15:58] <NigeyS> although it has taken the lassen 100 lines to stabilise the correct altitude reading
[15:58] <stilldavid> hey Zupht0r
[15:58] <NigeyS> from 68m to 16m
[15:58] <fsphil> normal enough
[15:59] <NigeyS> wahey, then all good, time to work on the beacon and t68 a bit more :D
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[16:00] <NigeyS> be interesting seeing if the addition of a second nss object complicates things even further
[16:01] <fsphil> as long as you handle it the same way, should be ok
[16:02] <NigeyS> trying to think now how to go about it, i only need the t68 every 10 minutes or so, so could just add sms.open and sms.close to the send.sms function ?
[16:02] <NigeyS> or send_sms whichever it is, cant remember
[16:05] <fsphil> begin and end, yea
[16:07] <griffonbot> @CollegeARC: @grindz145 LOL I know I'd love to (and @w2sz members are going I think) but we've been pulling 13 hour sat meetings to finish. #arhab [http://twitter.com/CollegeARC/status/57474846925402112]
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[16:30] <SamSilver> bbl
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[16:54] <fsphil> I was talking with a guy from the IAA today, and he confirmed what jcoxon was saying about the IAA not allowing radiosonde launches in the republic. He said there where so many they just started saying no to all of them
[16:57] <fsphil> seems kind of harsh -- you'd think they'd at least allow a certain number
[17:01] <W0OTM> yeah! successful cutdown module test. YouTube video is uploading now
[17:01] <NigeyS> yey
[17:01] <fsphil> woo-hoo!
[17:09] <NigeyS> ping upu
[17:29] <hibby> fsphil: launch it in norn irn and let it float south? ;)
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[17:35] <jcoxon> evening all
[17:36] <W0OTM> iHAB Cutdown test : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oyWSXmmkHk
[17:36] <hibby> skype job interview tomorrow :)
[17:37] <fsphil> hibby, I'm sure it's been done!
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[17:37] <fsphil> hi hi jcoxon
[17:37] <hibby> lol
[17:38] <jcoxon> hey
[17:38] Action: jcoxon is working on his altitude encoding
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[17:39] <fsphil> so how many bits do you have to work with?
[17:40] <jcoxon> so we have lat and lon
[17:40] <jcoxon> in decimal from
[17:40] <jcoxon> form*
[17:40] <jcoxon> which is converted to nmea
[17:40] <jcoxon> then is converted back by SPoT
[17:41] <NigeyS> evening james
[17:41] <jcoxon> to decimal
[17:41] <jcoxon> with some rounding
[17:42] <fsphil> aah so it's not a 1-1 encoding
[17:42] <fsphil> that makes it tricky
[17:42] <jcoxon> so
[17:42] <jcoxon> i'm going to use NSEW to designate the first digit of altitude
[17:43] <jcoxon> so each combination give us in 10s of km
[17:43] <jcoxon> NE=0, SE=1, SW=2, NW = 3
[17:44] <fsphil> nifty
[17:44] <jcoxon> that means we now need to find 4 more digits
[17:44] <jcoxon> somehow
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[17:46] <fsphil> you could divide the lat/lng accuracy by 100 each
[17:48] <griffonbot> @apexhab: All the best horizon photos from #apexhab launch here http://t.co/qYZC6kc #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/57500214977773568]
[17:48] <jcoxon> fsphil, i was thinking we can keep track of the first 'D' in DD.dddd
[17:48] <jcoxon> that goes from 0-9
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[17:49] <fsphil> would it handle a longitude > 180?
[17:49] <jcoxon> i don't think so
[17:53] <hibby> apex pictures are phenomenal
[17:53] <Upu> Evening NigelMoby
[17:53] <Upu> URL for APEX plx ?
[17:53] <jcoxon> and i guess we can use the first 2 digits of longitude
[17:54] <Upu> oh I see it
[17:54] <jcoxon> though the first goes 0-9 and the second digit goes from 0-7
[17:54] <NigeyS> hey upu .. can you remember where you got the n-type to sma connector? having a heck of a job finding 1
[17:54] <Upu> yeah Farnell I think
[17:54] <Upu> or RS :/
[17:54] <NigeyS> eugh oki
[17:55] <fsphil> (lng / 100) * altitude digits -- should be reversible and won't create invalid numbers
[17:55] <fsphil> but may not be 100% precise
[17:55] <Upu> I have all the invoice at work will check tommorrow
[17:55] <jonsowman> hibby: thank you!
[17:55] <Upu> just looking through my notes now
[17:55] <jonsowman> Upu: http://www.flickr.com/photos/reclaimedlight/sets/72157626349941623/
[17:56] <jonsowman> we are really, really pleased
[17:56] <NigeyS> tnx upu, i got the other bits though, after ordering the wrong N type at first! lol
[17:57] <Upu> I ended up shoving the whole adaptor into the payload container to stop it flapping about
[17:58] <NigeyS> lol think ill have to do the same, this sma cable i found is 50cm !
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[17:58] <Upu> SMA patch was 25 cms
[17:58] <Upu> and costs about 39
[17:58] <Upu> £9
[17:59] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/19-34-2/adaptor-n-plug-sma-jack/dp/1169552
[17:59] <Upu> that was the adaptor
[17:59] <NigeyS> ahh star, 9 quid .. wow!
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[18:01] <Upu> can't find the other bits
[18:03] <Upu> farnell search can be nasty sometimes
[18:07] <NigeyS> no worries, i can track down the rest, farnell is just nasty end of .. minimum orders etc
[18:08] <NigeyS> https://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?&tier1=Cables+%26+Connectors&tier2=Connectors+-+RF%2fCoaxial&tier3=SMA%2fSMB%2fMCX&tier4=SMA+Cable+assemblies&moduleno=63634&catref=16-1580
[18:08] <NigeyS> prolly get that 1
[18:08] <Laurenceb> NigeyS: ill change my paypal email in 5
[18:08] <NigeyS> oki dudey
[18:09] <NigeyS> oh need to email my address to
[18:12] <Laurenceb> eexlb2 <at> nottingham <dot> ac <dot> uk
[18:13] <Laurenceb> thats setup for paypal now too
[18:13] <Upu> thats the one NigelMoby
[18:13] <Upu> anyway afk
[18:14] <NigeyS> laurenceb okie dokie
[18:14] <NigeyS> cheers upu
[18:14] <Laurenceb> cant remember how much you owe me..
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> One Billion Dollars?
[18:15] <Laurenceb> £11.91
[18:16] <Laurenceb> VAT inclusive
[18:16] <NigeyS> haha 1 billion!
[18:17] <NigeyS> £12 then laurence :D
[18:17] <Laurenceb> k, thanks
[18:17] <Laurenceb> ill chuck in 2x28pin sockets and postage
[18:18] <NigeyS> thanks dude, rather annoyed at cool components tbh, ive bought 3 atmegas from then, and only that last 1 came with no socket
[18:19] <Laurenceb> farnells atmega168s are stupid money
[18:19] <Laurenceb> 328 is cheaper
[18:19] <Laurenceb> stm32 is half the price...
[18:20] <NigeyS> farnells entire price structure seems odd!
[18:20] <NigeyS> saw an apapter there earlier for £32, same 1 from rapid was £1.57 :|
[18:20] <Laurenceb> its based on quantity sold
[18:21] <Laurenceb> ive just spent £370 on parts
[18:22] <Laurenceb> 3 autopilots, one uav one ground station one SAR
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> Good luck!
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> SAR?
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> Synthetic...
[18:22] <Laurenceb> aperture radar
[18:22] <Laurenceb> or lame one based on a cc1020
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> Lame is fun too!
[18:23] <NigeyS> wow thats alot of money!
[18:23] <NigeyS> but your going to enjoy the builds :P
[18:23] <Laurenceb> but theoretically if i made some proper rf hardware you could have a tiny ultra wideband one on a uav
[18:24] <Laurenceb> i was thinking maybe minefield clearance
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> Sheep are cheaper.
[18:24] <Laurenceb> lol
[18:25] <W0OTM> SpeedEvil: iHAB Cutdown test : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oyWSXmmkHk
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:25] <Laurenceb> NigeyS: did you send me the money?
[18:25] <Laurenceb> <-paypal noob
[18:26] <NigeyS> haha just logging in now, itll send you an email soon as its gone through
[18:26] <NigeyS> think it mails you, you accept, then it takes 3-5 days, or something daft like that
[18:28] <Laurenceb> k
[18:28] <jcoxon> ping fsphil
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[18:31] <Laurenceb> got it thanks
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[18:33] <Laurenceb> huh why do i only have 11.39 showing as balance when your transaction shows as 12?
[18:33] <Laurenceb> paypal tax?
[18:35] <Laurenceb> hmf ill use cheques in future
[18:39] <jonsowman> use paypal gifts
[18:39] <jonsowman> no charges.
[18:39] <Laurenceb> ah
[18:40] <NigeyS> lol forgot about that
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[19:00] <fsphil> pong jcoxon
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[19:05] <jcoxon> so my current scheme is allows me to be +/- 50m
[19:07] <fsphil> 50m accuracy?
[19:08] <jcoxon> so
[19:09] <jcoxon> NSEW give us the first digit 0-4
[19:09] <jcoxon> we steal the the first digit of latitude to give us the second digit (thousands)
[19:10] <jcoxon> we then steal the second digit of longitude to give us the 3rd digit (hundreds
[19:10] <jcoxon> )
[19:10] <jcoxon> and finally we use the 1st digit of longitude to give us < or > 50
[19:10] <jcoxon> (as its either 1 or 0)
[19:11] <hibby> jcoxon: may I ask what the purpose is? shorter strings?
[19:11] <jcoxon> hibby, SPoT sat tx'er only sends lat/lon
[19:11] <jcoxon> and i want to include altitude
[19:12] <priyesh> are there logs of #highaltitude available?
[19:12] <jcoxon> as max rate i can get is every 10mins
[19:12] <hibby> ah, ok.
[19:12] <jcoxon> priyesh, http://habhub.org//zeusbot/
[19:12] <priyesh> jcoxon: thanks
[19:12] <jcoxon> hibby, i'd love some input if you can think of a better way
[19:12] <hibby> not that I can think of, it's ben interesting reading.
[19:12] <griffonbot> @jonsowman: RT @apexhab: All the best horizon photos from #apexhab launch here http://t.co/qYZC6kc #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jonsowman/status/57521487527161856]
[19:13] <Matt_soton> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oyWSXmmkHk
[19:13] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[19:13] <Matt_soton> whoops
[19:14] <fsphil> I'm not sure how accurate my scheme would be .. lemme see
[19:15] <Matt_soton> are you using hex digits or similar to do u want it to be human readable?
[19:16] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, so its got to be decimal DD.DDD
[19:16] <jcoxon> which is converted to NMEA DDMM.mmm
[19:16] <jcoxon> which is then converted back to DD.DDD by the spot system
[19:16] <fsphil> just three decimal places?
[19:17] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[19:18] <jcoxon> yeah i think so
[19:19] <Matt_soton> so you can use the first 4bits of the byte for the first character and the last 4biths for the second (and so on)?
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[19:26] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, oh i see
[19:27] <Shuffty> Can I be a douche and ask what 4 bits is...
[19:28] <jcoxon> well a bit is 1 or 0
[19:28] <jcoxon> so 4 bits is for example 1010
[19:28] <Shuffty> Thank you - makes perfect sense...
[19:28] <Shuffty> :-)
[19:28] <jcoxon> so
[19:28] <jcoxon> you can have 16 combinations
[19:29] <zip> hiya.. does anyone have a good resource or advice on sending images via SSTV? want to use something like this with an arduino and the transmitter: http://www.radiometrix.com/content/ntx2 - camera will be :http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10061
[19:29] <jcoxon> zip, the key with that is what is in the middle?
[19:29] <jcoxon> what micro?
[19:31] <Matt_soton> you only really need 4 bytes for a lat or long, a 32 bit number is 10 decimal digits long and nmea is really only 8 or 9
[19:32] <zip> good question. I understand reading the datasheet on the cam that I can just use an arduino board to do the SSTV encoding and tranmisstion straight from the camera ( the camera can store the compressed jpg image and you can request chunks of data until cam buffer is empty)
[19:32] <jcoxon> zip, sure but for sstv you'll need to generate an analog signal
[19:33] <jcoxon> which is fed into the radio tx'er
[19:33] <jcoxon> now SSDV might be better...
[19:33] <zip> ah ok.. this is where my info is lacking...
[19:33] <zip> is there a easy way to send packet data instead?
[19:33] <jcoxon> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ssdv
[19:34] <jcoxon> fsphil developed it
[19:34] <fsphil> ssdv allows you to send jpeg data digitally over an unreliable link
[19:34] <zip> thx for link... digesting
[19:34] <zip> looks ideal on first read!
[19:35] <jcoxon> zip, it was invented for this reason :-p
[19:35] <jcoxon> and dl-fldigi can decode it
[19:35] <zip> lol - excellent :)
[19:35] <zip> I knew I came to the right place
[19:36] <DanielRichman> You can do sstv with an arduino, a DAC, some luck with the timingsg, and either very skilled buffer control or a small dip flash chip
[19:37] <jcoxon> DanielRichman, not for the faint hearted
[19:37] <DanielRichman> well
[19:37] <DanielRichman> no :P
[19:37] <DanielRichman> https://github.com/danielrichman/avr/blob/master/xplain-x128a1/dac_sstv.c
[19:38] <DanielRichman> ^^ works. Uses an xmega rather than an atmega.
[19:38] <DanielRichman> similar but has a built in dac and slightly different interface
[19:38] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:39] <Laurenceb> http://www.varesano.net/blog/categories/master%20science
[19:39] <Laurenceb> ^interesting
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[19:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:45] <zip> @DanielRichman I'll look into that method aswell. food for thought.
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[20:03] <Matt_soton> dont suppose thers any linecoding support in fldigi?
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[20:24] <fsphil> I doubt it
[20:25] <jonsowman> do modes like dominoex/mfsk transmit more than one tone simultaneously?
[20:25] <fsphil> nope
[20:25] <fsphil> you could do both with the ntx2
[20:25] <jonsowman> I thought not. considering dominoex
[20:25] <fsphil> (minus the frequency drift)
[20:25] <jonsowman> yeah
[20:26] <jonsowman> just want to try something new
[20:26] <jonsowman> higher data rate would be nice as well...
[20:26] <Matt_soton> mind u line coding can always be handled externally
[20:26] <jonsowman> yeah
[20:27] <jonsowman> as long as the data can be retrieved from fldigi, its modem is all that we need
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[20:27] <Matt_soton> i suppose where with rtty when the two frequencies seperation reduces this wouldbe a problem for mfsk
[20:27] <Matt_soton> but that is due to the radio or the resistors used?
[20:28] <Matt_soton> would a dac cause the same effect
[20:30] <jonsowman> hmm
[20:30] <jonsowman> intuitively I'd say the effect would remain with a DAC
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[20:31] <Matt_soton> depends if its a radio effect or external resistor effect
[20:31] <jonsowman> we could heat the xtal - jcoxon used a crystal oven on a flight a while back with a PID controller
[20:31] <jonsowman> worked really well
[20:31] <fsphil> the drift is caused by the crystal in the ntx2 cooling down (or heating up!)
[20:31] <jonsowman> it's a radio thing
[20:32] <Matt_soton> ok
[20:32] <jonsowman> keeping the xtal at constant temp is possible
[20:33] <Matt_soton> the other ting would be to have multiple rtty channels indepdnet of each otherbut fldigi wont be happy
[20:33] <fsphil> the new version of fldigi can receive multiple channels
[20:33] <fsphil> though how reliable it is I've no idea
[20:33] <Matt_soton> hmm ok
[20:34] <fsphil> shame fldigi can't handle more bandwidth than 4khz
[20:34] <Matt_soton> well shame the sound card cant handle more then 4kHz
[20:34] <Matt_soton> i suppse?
[20:34] <Matt_soton> or is it a sample rate thing
[20:34] <Matt_soton> suppose its not the sound card tbh
[20:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.viacopter.eu/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=11&Itemid=53
[20:35] <fsphil> the sound card could probably do up to 10khz reliably
[20:35] <Laurenceb> ^nice prices
[20:35] <fsphil> then there's the funcube dongle that can do 80khz
[20:35] <hibby> mr shirville is hitting our office tomorrow with one of those
[20:35] <fsphil> they're really nifty devices
[20:36] <Matt_soton> well thers lots you could do by yourself but then noone will be able to hear you
[20:36] <fsphil> indeed
[20:36] <hibby> excitement ahoy
[20:36] <fsphil> I'm flying an 869mhz module soon .. not many people will be able to hear that :)
[20:36] <hibby> fsphil: how soon is soon?
[20:36] <Matt_soton> the funcube is a just a one IC tuner with a audio DAC and PIC
[20:36] <fsphil> hibby, within the next month
[20:36] <fsphil> my notam allows for two launches
[20:37] <hibby> nice. What's the exact frequency?
[20:37] <fsphil> 869.50MHz according to the datasheet
[20:37] <fsphil> 450mw so it should be quite loud
[20:37] <hibby> maplin have some 868 modules I've been desparate to try
[20:38] <Matt_soton> are you using hte funcube for that?
[20:38] <fsphil> I will be yea
[20:38] <fsphil> I've no other receiver than can work at that frequency
[20:38] <fsphil> it'll also have the usual 434.075 module
[20:38] <Matt_soton> normal radios only output audio frequencies whatever fldigi or the oundcard can do
[20:38] <Matt_soton> so doesnt leave much
[20:39] <fsphil> most amateur radios only output about 2800hz bandwidth with ssb
[20:39] <Matt_soton> we were thinking or txing on HF bands, as the bandwidth loss isnt an issue when its limited by the radio/fldigi/soundcard
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[20:41] <fsphil> There's a few license exempt bands on HF but the power restrictions are realllly tight
[20:42] <Matt_soton> i thought i had found a 10mW one around 46MHz but i cant seem to find it any more :P
[20:43] <fsphil> 40 and 49 mhz
[20:43] <Matt_soton> 10mW?
[20:43] <fsphil> I think they're used mostly for RC planes and the like
[20:43] <fsphil> yea
[20:43] <Matt_soton> well its the same pwer as 434, but much lower frequency
[20:44] <fsphil> there's a 27mhz one too but that specifies two limits
[20:44] <fsphil> 10mW and 42 dB¼A/m at 10 m
[20:44] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[20:44] <fsphil> g'day mattltm!
[20:45] <Matt_soton> well surely a non directional antenna will meet the second requirement if the first is met?
[20:46] <mattltm> What we talking about?
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[20:46] <Matt_soton> hf frequencies
[20:46] <mattltm> Licence exempt?
[20:46] <fsphil> I'm afraid I don't understand most of the second requirement :)
[20:46] <Matt_soton> oh ok :P
[20:47] <fsphil> yep mattltm, there's a couple <100mhz
[20:47] <mattltm> Yes, there are...
[20:47] <mattltm> but not many approved for airbourne use
[20:47] <fsphil> they are
[20:47] <Matt_soton> also its much easier to design your own txer around that sorta frequency
[20:47] <mattltm> 6765kHz
[20:47] <mattltm> 13.553
[20:47] <fsphil> all but the 49mhz one anyway
[20:48] <mattltm> 26.957
[20:48] <mattltm> 40.66 - 40.70 10mW Eerp
[20:48] <mattltm> First 2 are useless
[20:48] <fsphil> it's a pretty narrow band
[20:49] <Matt_soton> how many channels does it expect to get in there?
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[20:49] <mattltm> Depends on what is being sent.
[20:49] <NigeyS> fsphil, can i include a .c file into my code the same way i include a .cpp ?
[20:49] <Matt_soton> well sometimes bandwidth is specified
[20:49] <fsphil> NigeyS, yes
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[20:50] <NigeyS> cheers
[20:52] <NigeyS> hm
[20:53] Nick change: Laurenceb__ -> Laurenceb
[20:53] <fsphil> jcoxon, the avr you're using for the spot thingy -- can you use floating point maths?
[20:53] <mattltm> 169.4 - 169.475 500mW erp 10% duty cycle.
[20:53] <hibby> would love some 6m fun
[20:54] <mattltm> Lol. Who fancies flying a 61Ghz beacon?
[20:54] <jcoxon> fsphil, yes
[20:54] <Matt_soton> depends if u have a disht to rcv it on
[20:54] <jcoxon> mattltm, is that allowed for airborne?
[20:54] <fsphil> jcoxon, did some notepad calculations -- seems to work well, but really messy. gonna write some code
[20:55] <mattltm> Yes - 61.0 - 61.5Ghz is allower for airborne use at 100mW eirp
[20:55] <jcoxon> oh i mean 169
[20:55] <Laurenceb> floating point on avr works very well
[20:55] <mattltm> 169? Yes.
[20:55] <Laurenceb> considering its 8 bit
[20:56] <mattltm> 500mW @ 10% duty
[20:56] <fsphil> what application? (for 169)
[20:56] <mattltm> Industrial/ Commercial Telemetry and Tele-command
[20:56] <Matt_soton> good enough for us?
[20:56] <mattltm> Athough... Use is limited to remote meter reading.
[20:57] <mattltm> or a 1% duty - Use is limited to remote meter reading.
[20:57] <jcoxon> there is no reference to airborne use
[20:57] <Matt_soton> if we send our battery voltage does that count ? :P
[20:57] <jcoxon> they divide the rules into airborne and ground
[20:57] <mattltm> jcoxon: "Equipment may be used airborne"
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[20:57] <Matt_soton> is this the ir2030 document on ofcoms site?
[20:57] <mattltm> Personaly, I have never seen an airborne electric meter!
[20:58] <mattltm> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-policy-area/spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements/IR2030final.pdf
[20:58] <mattltm> Saves me typing :)
[20:58] <mattltm> Bottom of page 20
[20:59] <jcoxon> must be a newer verison then the pdf i've got
[20:59] <jcoxon> as don't say it in mine
[20:59] <Matt_soton> i think the title of that document doesnt really apply to us
[20:59] <Matt_soton> 'short range devices'
[21:00] <Matt_soton> what did fsphil achieve the other day?
[21:00] <mattltm> lol.
[21:00] <jcoxon> now to add to the fun
[21:00] <jcoxon> how would you make your transmitter?
[21:00] <jcoxon> for 169
[21:00] <Matt_soton> well i was going for ~40ish
[21:01] <Matt_soton> pll can output that sorta frequency
[21:01] <Matt_soton> if its a fractal divide by n thing then chagne the divison
[21:01] <Matt_soton> is a way...
[21:01] <jcoxon> i'm only playing devils advocate
[21:02] <jcoxon> but legally
[21:02] <jcoxon> oooo found a radiometrix
[21:02] <Matt_soton> yea theres that issue too...
[21:02] <jcoxon> http://www.radiometrix.com/content/ent1
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[21:03] <mattltm> lol. I was just gona post the TX1 link :0
[21:03] <Matt_soton> amateur radio liscence?
[21:03] <Matt_soton> intermediate needed?
[21:03] <jcoxon> the key is you can't use your licence
[21:03] <jcoxon> no amateur licence can be used
[21:03] <jcoxon> as thats a ground thing :-)
[21:03] <mattltm> No airborne use allower wut a hma licence :(
[21:03] <jcoxon> not airborne
[21:04] <mattltm> jcoxon: That ENT1 looks good.
[21:04] <hibby> we should start a lobby
[21:04] <mattltm> Im about to place a order with radiometrix...
[21:04] <mattltm> May get one to play with.
[21:04] <jcoxon> 1% duty...
[21:04] <Matt_soton> so intermediate liscence can be used to make stuff used on the ground, but not in the air
[21:04] <Matt_soton> :\
[21:05] <jcoxon> indeed
[21:05] <mattltm> 10% duty it your monitoring battery usege :p
[21:05] <hibby> Matt_soton: licenses don't cover airborne transmission at all here, afaik
[21:05] <Matt_soton> so what makes the radiomatrix modules allowed
[21:05] <Matt_soton> im guessing testing and spending monies
[21:05] <jonsowman> sad but true
[21:05] <mattltm> The radiometric modules are for use on exempt freqs
[21:05] <jgrahamc> Evening
[21:05] <jcoxon> Matt_soton, indeed
[21:05] <hibby> hola
[21:05] <mattltm> hi hibby
[21:05] <jcoxon> EN 300 220-3 and EN 301 489-3
[21:06] <NigeyS> hey mattltm
[21:06] <Matt_soton> and you cant self certify...
[21:06] <Matt_soton> even carrying out all the tests
[21:06] <jcoxon> that i'm not sure about
[21:06] <hibby> Matt_soton: how would they tax that?!
[21:07] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: aren't they self-certified?
[21:07] <jonsowman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark
[21:07] <Matt_soton> when radiometrix are developing a radio, they have their new design made, and are about to turn it on, it may produce lots of interference etc, so dont ehy have a exception to devleop
[21:08] <Matt_soton> as they wont know before they turn it on, and to transmit it need to meet specs wihhc they wont know b4 hand
[21:08] <jonsowman> I suppose so, yes
[21:08] <jonsowman> yeah
[21:08] <jonsowman> development exemptions are not that expensive
[21:08] <jonsowman> iirc
[21:09] <Matt_soton> and to make sure its 'safe' to use airborne they need to send it there for testing before they say it conforms...
[21:09] <mattltm> they prob have an anechoic chamber too
[21:09] <jonsowman> mm true
[21:09] <Matt_soton> i would be supprised if they didnt
[21:10] <jonsowman> yeah
[21:10] <mattltm> There is a test site near here that has a dome that blocks radio waves.
[21:10] <Matt_soton> the CE mark is the manufacutre ensuring it meets specification
[21:10] <NigeyS> http://pastebin.com/bKq4F7u4
[21:10] <Matt_soton> not anyone else
[21:10] <NigeyS> ideas anyone? :|
[21:10] <Matt_soton> apparently
[21:10] <mattltm> Used for tesing new cars stanav's
[21:11] <jonsowman> Matt_soton: is that applicable for a self-built radio then?
[21:12] <Matt_soton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark#Self-certification
[21:12] <Matt_soton> tbh what is the level of risk of the product?
[21:12] <Matt_soton> its only 10mW
[21:12] <jonsowman> I've no idea
[21:14] <Matt_soton> mind you, when you buy a one IC solution that does radio, and you have to add the front end, you would have thought that would require all this meeting specs as well?
[21:14] <jcoxon> well that is the funny issue
[21:14] <jonsowman> I've no idea on that either, you'd think ti would
[21:15] <jonsowman> *it
[21:15] <Matt_soton> so could you extend it to output of my CC1111 (or whatever) to the output of my PLL
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[21:19] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: can you pastebin the whole source?
[21:19] <NigeyS> the .c file or the pde file ?
[21:20] <DanielRichman> both, I guess. Unless they're on your git?
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[21:21] <Matt_soton> mind you CE marking is one thing and needed for selling products, put radio conformaty is another thing
[21:21] <NigeyS> not on git yet, ill pastie the source, i dont want to save them on the git when they wont compile
[21:21] <NigeyS> http://pastebin.com/9sqbuvNf ..... C file .. ive literally just renamed the nss to smsnss to stop the conflict with the gps nss object
[21:22] <DanielRichman> ok you've accidentally deleted the line that had NewSoftSerial smsnss = whatever; so that's why smsnss is not declared
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[21:22] <MNSP> hello all :)
[21:22] <DanielRichman> size_t is not available because stdio.h isn't included. Stdio.h is automatically included when you add the NewSoftSerial include
[21:22] <NigeyS> ahhh dammit
[21:22] <DanielRichman> so either add #include <stdio.h> or #include "NewSoftSerial.h"
[21:23] <DanielRichman> I think that covers all your build errors
[21:23] <NigeyS> oki cheers dan let me check
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[21:23] <NigeyS> hey Kevin
[21:25] <Matt_soton> i dont think CE really applies to us trying to make our own TX'rs
[21:26] <jcoxon> isn't CE for if you sell it
[21:26] <jonsowman> I don;t know
[21:26] <Matt_soton> yea it is
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[21:35] <mattltm> Just poped back in to say on the subject ot SRD licence exempt radio...
[21:36] <mattltm> Ofcom have done some consultaion and there may be a new VHF SRD allocation avaliable in November.
[21:36] <mattltm> Not much details around at the moment but if anyone can be bothered, the paper is here..
[21:36] <mattltm> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/licence-exemption/summary/condoc.pdf
[21:37] <mattltm> Night all :)
[21:37] <Upu> night
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[21:37] <Matt_soton> doesnt solve the issue of building the radios :P
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[21:38] <hibby> Matt_soton: just do it and launch in Scotland... OFCom gave up on us a while ago :)
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> http://fatpita.net/?i=4134 - reminds me of someone.
[21:40] <fsphil> lol
[21:40] <fsphil> (to both scotland and the pic) :)
[21:40] <hibby> amazing.
[21:41] <Matt_soton> well it sthe same organisation down here...
[21:42] <hibby> Matt_soton: aye, but they don't have any vehicles to track you up here... and by the time they scramble, you're gone back into the dark of the night/grey of the cloud
[21:43] <Matt_soton> were you conforming at all or just doing what you wanted?
[21:43] <hibby> we conform up here, my gripe with ofcom comes as a radio amateur in the fact that they won't sort out the jamming/interference problems we've had up here for years
[21:44] <hibby> because they "don't have the resources in the area"
[21:44] <Matt_soton> i can undersand u txing 1W on 100MHz annoying them but making your own 10mW 434.075 radio
[21:44] <Matt_soton> oh ok
[21:44] <NigeyS> DanielRichman, nope, its still erroring, diff errors though lol
[21:45] <hibby> it's not like glasgow is an unpopulated Crater... we are the 3rd most populous area in the uk ;)
[21:45] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: ok; what are they now :P?
[21:45] <NigeyS> pasting now
[21:45] <Matt_soton> has anyone actually found the document on the ofcom site that specifically says you cannot make your own radio?
[21:45] <NigeyS> http://pastebin.com/dbQqzqNx
[21:46] <Matt_soton> providing it keeps to that ir2030 document
[21:46] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: you're missing a semicolon on something at the very top of smstest.c
[21:46] <DanielRichman> a prototype or declaration
[21:46] <NigeyS> ah
[21:46] <DanielRichman> and you haven't declared smsnss... maybe it's that that is missing the ;
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[21:49] <NigelS> silly connection
[21:49] Nick change: NigelS -> Nige|S
[21:50] <hibby> I think the flatmate's out... time to crack out the fiddle :)
[21:50] <Nige|S> hm nothing missing, and smsnss is declared with a ; in the main code
[21:50] <Nige|S> http://pastebin.com/4uwU0y7T
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[21:51] Nick change: Nige|S -> NigeyS
[21:51] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: you need to put #include "smstest.c" below the smsnss declaration
[21:53] <MNSP> is that a real fiddle or was that a euphemism hibby?
[21:54] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:54] <NigeyS> meh still the same, refering to something missing in the nss file now .. havent even touched that 1 !
[21:54] Topic changed on #highaltitude by jonsowman!jonsowman@kryten.hexoc.com: Welcome to #highaltitude - discuss anything to do with high altitude projects (balloons, gliders, etc) www.ukhas.org.uk
[21:54] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[21:55] <hibby> MNSP: nope, that's definately a real fiddle/violin, it just doesn't translate well via the national language barrier :p
[21:55] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: can you tar or zip up the three files involved and host them somewhere?
[21:55] <NigeyS> sure
[21:55] <MNSP> or with the neighbours at 11.00pm?
[21:57] <hibby> MNSP: it's an electric job... not all that loud, luckily
[21:57] <NigeyS> DanielRichman, http://www.amateurdeepfield.org/ATSRev1_2.zip
[21:57] <MNSP> am just yanking your chain hibby ;)
[21:58] <hibby> MNSP: ;).
[21:58] <fsphil> Welcome to Innuendo, Population: 2
[21:58] <fsphil> Please Drive Carefully
[21:59] <NigeyS> lol
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[21:59] <MNSP> LOL
[22:01] <fsphil> I've always liked the "Thank you for driving carefully" signs .. like it's giving you permission to drive badly
[22:03] <MNSP> I like the emails, voicemails etc that say like.. dear customer you are important to us... so important you don't know my name!!!
[22:04] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: in this order
[22:04] <DanielRichman> #include "NewSoftSerial.h"
[22:04] <DanielRichman> NewSoftSerial smsnss(5, 6);
[22:04] <DanielRichman> #include "smstest.c"
[22:05] <NigeyS> ok..
[22:06] <NigeyS> error expected '='',' bleh bleh
[22:06] <NigeyS> and in newsoftserial its highlighted this line .. class NewSoftSerial : public Print
[22:07] <NigeyS> oddly enough i thought a simple class include would be easier... *digh*
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[22:07] <NigeyS> sigh*
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[22:10] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: you still have errors? that's... what
[22:11] <NigeyS> oh aye still got errors, but theyre errors from newsoftserial.h which hasn't been touched
[22:11] <DanielRichman> daniel@desktop:ATSRev1_2$ avr-gcc -c -o ATSRev1_2.o -mmcu=atmega168 ATSRev1_2.cxx -I ../arduino-0022/hardware/arduino/cores/arduino/ -I ../TinyGPS/ -I ../OneWire/
[22:11] <DanielRichman> succeeds
[22:12] <NigeyS> hm
[22:12] <NigeyS> http://pastebin.com/NPG0cbUX
[22:12] <fsphil> ping jonsowman - have you any sample recordings of apex-ii handy?
[22:13] <jonsowman> fsphil: Matt_soton might :)
[22:13] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: it's trying to compile smsnss.c (?)
[22:14] <DanielRichman> shouldn't it only be trying to compile ATSRev1_2.pde
[22:14] <NigeyS> must be, cause arduino ide is stupid!
[22:14] <DanielRichman> well I can't see any mention of "from ATSRev1_2".. in there
[22:14] <DanielRichman> NigeyS: the entire arduino language/library is stupid :S
[22:15] <NigeyS> lol im learning that very quickly
[22:15] <DanielRichman> well it's good for some things but quickly becomes a pain
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[22:16] <DanielRichman> ok don't #include "smstest.c" in ATSRev1_2.pde
[22:16] <NigeyS> oki, put the sms code straight in to the pde under its own section you think ?
[22:16] <DanielRichman> Instead, have #include <WProgram.h>, #include "NewSoftSerial.h", extern NewSoftSerial smsnss; at the top of smstest.c
[22:16] <NigeyS> ahh ok
[22:16] <DanielRichman> or just copypaste the whole thing in :P
[22:18] <NigeyS> pasting it in, its annoying me now lol
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[22:20] <Matt_soton> fsphil: i have some, during hte testing befor ethe first launch
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[22:20] <fsphil> Matt_soton, that'll do -- just wanna see if I can make dl-fldigi play nice with the nmea format coordinates
[22:22] <NigeyS> DanielRichman, pasted, and compiled fine, many thanks.. again
[22:22] <Matt_soton> http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/packet3.mp3
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[22:23] <fsphil> ooh, ipv6. thanks
[22:23] <Matt_soton> heh
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[22:39] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
[22:44] <W0OTM> For those who havnt see it. iHAB Cutdown test : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oyWSXmmkHk
[22:45] <hibby> nice one
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[23:01] <NigeyS> DanielRichman, static test recieved :D
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[23:20] <NigeyS> hey terry
[23:27] <griffonbot> @apexhab: Full writeup of the #apexhab launch including pretty pictures! http://bit.ly/fRASB6 #ukhas [http://twitter.com/apexhab/status/57585543009148928]
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[23:53] <griffonbot> @jonsowman: RT @apexhab: Full writeup of the #apexhab launch including pretty pictures! http://bit.ly/fRASB6 #ukhas [http://twitter.com/jonsowman/status/57592150011027456]
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 12 2011