highaltitude.log.20110401

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[00:11] <Shuffty> I'm getting something through from the ntx2 in dl-fldigi, but it isnt legible. One step forward though - will work on it again tomorrow noght. :-)
[00:14] <griffonbot> @nearsys: We're go for launch. We'll meet at the Learned Hall parking lot at 6 AM Saturday. Lift off at 7 AM. Look for KD4STH-11. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/53611253968547840]
[00:19] <Shuffty> http://shuffty.blogspot.com/ <--can somebody listen to the audio from the ntx2 and tell me if it sounds right..
[00:33] <NigelMoby> That's fine, shift might be a bit off and have a fiddle with the tuning dial, you'll hear the pitch change.
[00:37] <Shuffty> Could it be something to do with the voltage at the NTX2 end? I'm powering it with 3.3v from the arduino and I've found contrasting resistor configurations to the ones I've used.
[00:37] <Randomskk> there are many resistor ways to do it
[00:38] <Shuffty> :-)
[00:38] <Shuffty> Phew
[00:39] <Shuffty> Ok, time to get some sleep.. Thanks for all your help everyone!
[00:39] <Shuffty> Goodnight..
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[02:24] <Zuph> Hello Habers!
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[02:51] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Local ham and new friend Mark W has taken our antennas off to his well equipped lab for analysis and tweaking- Thanks! #arhab @whasnews [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/53650629293383682]
[02:52] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Hazards of haning antennas at night in the city #arhab http://t.co/l9YhJTy http://t.co/MY9tz9D [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/53650936677138432]
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[03:46] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone up?
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[07:16] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Hung 40m antenna over parking lot with SB-1 HFTX. RXed in FL, PA, CO. Very weak - Gonna need big ants to decode #arhab http://t.co/zzTZmG9 [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/53717384523030528]
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[07:19] <natrium42> ping eroomde
[07:24] mattltm-alt (~mattltm-a@mail.icm2.org.uk) left irc:
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[07:29] <SamSilver> I swear I saw a horse
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[07:36] <SamSilver> afk
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[07:47] <eroomde> natrium42: pong
[07:47] <eroomde> jgrahamc: you have probably seen that the hourly predictor has worked again
[07:47] <eroomde> it's an april fools easter egg, obviously
[07:48] <jgrahamc> ha ha ha
[07:48] <jgrahamc> I didn't see, does it predict that if I launch next Sunday GAGA-1 will land in my parent's back garden in Colchester :-) That would be a good April Fool.
[07:48] <jgrahamc> What was up with the predictor
[07:48] <jgrahamc> ?
[07:49] <fsphil> I so gotta get the hourly predictor working for here
[07:50] <eroomde> i couldn't definitively say!
[07:51] <eroomde> it seems to correlate with our log file space limit being reached but i'm not sure of the mechanism that cases the date errors
[07:51] <eroomde> but flushing out the logs seems to solve the problem
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[07:51] <eroomde> fsphil: yeah it's cool. reasonably (but wee web server standards) intensive on bandwidth and computation though
[07:51] <eroomde> hence it not being on habhub for anyone to use
[07:52] <fsphil> yea
[07:52] <fsphil> I tried once before but ended up on an endless spiral of errors and warnings
[07:52] <eroomde> would be useful though if it could be made to work. i suspect with the current ukhas-induced load it's be fine
[07:52] <eroomde> but 100 people using it, if it become popular, could be very heavy
[07:53] <jgrahamc> Well, glad that it's working.
[07:53] <jgrahamc> Hmm. Looks like the wind is turning northwards towards next weekend.
[07:53] <fsphil> I get free bandwidth late at night, I could have it run then
[07:54] <jgrahamc> Not sure I want to be driving to Grimsby to recoverv :-)
[07:55] <eroomde> might be worth getting your jabs done just in case
[07:56] <jgrahamc> Snarky :-)
[07:57] <jgrahamc> Did a code walkthrough of the flight computer code last night and discovered that I was incorrectly recording in NVRAM the max altitude. Had somehow decided to convert the HHmmss value into the altitude for storage (not for transmission). Oops.
[07:57] <fsphil> good idea though
[07:58] <jgrahamc> Wouldn't have caused a problem on the day, although would have been weird when I downloaded the NVRAM for analysis afterwards :-)
[07:58] <eroomde> yes!
[07:59] <eroomde> i remember (no names mentioned) someone saying, after letting go of the balloon and it getting to about 300m, quite dead pan, 'oh... i forgot to transmit the altitude on telementry'
[07:59] <jgrahamc> I have a little bit of code that uses the EEPROM on the Arduino to store some critical values between reboots, one of which is the max altitude seen.
[07:59] <fsphil> !
[07:59] <jgrahamc> Oh god. That would be embarrassing.
[07:59] <eroomde> so you're already doing better
[07:59] <jgrahamc> It's funny how code comes to you like that.
[08:00] <eroomde> he did however choose to include 'time to landing' based on a simple altitude model so we reverse engineered that
[08:00] <fsphil> that narrows down the suspects :)
[08:00] <eroomde> same person who once attached his parachute to the payload with bluetac
[08:01] <jgrahamc> Awesome. That's the sort of thing that I love. Did you see this? http://abstrusegoose.com/350
[08:01] <fsphil> ok maybe not
[08:01] <eroomde> (didn't work)
[08:01] <jgrahamc> What??? That's insane.
[08:02] <eroomde> mmmhmm
[08:02] <fsphil> duct tape wins
[08:02] <eroomde> quite a senior member round here too :)
[08:03] <jgrahamc> On my balloon I've got the cord passing through the polystyrene itself (including the lid). The lid is held down by cord locks and then I'm duct taping the lid in place at the last minute.
[08:03] <jgrahamc> Let's name no names
[08:05] <eroomde> back in 5
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[08:43] <eroomde> jgrahamc: it would be no fun if I did!
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[08:56] <natrium42> eroomde: got tickets finally
[08:56] <natrium42> eroomde: going to be in london 14-16 of may
[08:59] <eroomde> natrium42: ok awesome
[08:59] <eroomde> i will certainly see you then!
[09:01] <natrium42> cool, we could have some warm english beer :D
[09:01] <eroomde> i'll stick to a cold european lager :)
[09:01] <natrium42> traitor!
[09:02] <eroomde> half-french
[09:02] <natrium42> aah
[09:02] <eroomde> never quite got the ale thing
[09:03] <eroomde> people drink it and say things like 'aaahhh, old men's slippers and taxi driver armpits' as if that was meant to appeal
[09:04] <natrium42> well, i prefer lagers too :P
[09:05] <eroomde> still, whenin london
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[09:36] <jgrahamc> eroomde: my wife is French and will only drink ales.
[09:56] <NigelMoby> Morning
[09:59] <Laurenceb_> http://mail.google.com/mail/help/motion.html
[09:59] <Laurenceb_> poor april fools is poor
[09:59] <russss> Laurenceb_: they have a better one - if you type "helvetica" into google search
[10:00] <Laurenceb_> oh very good
[10:01] <Darkside> hahahaha
[10:02] <Laurenceb_> https://market.android.com/details?id=me.mga.parquimetro
[10:03] <GW8RAK> Do you have to strap your smart phone to your wrist?
[10:03] <Laurenceb_> only if you're a w*nker
[10:04] griffonbot (~griffonbo@nessie.habhub.org) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[10:04] <GW8RAK> That famous song by Ivor Biggun
[10:05] <Laurenceb_> maybe combine it with google motion
[10:06] <fsphil> like this: http://xkcd.com/880/
[10:07] <NigelMoby> Eww ubuntu 11.04 beta is defaulting to unity.....yuck
[10:07] <Laurenceb_> heh
[10:08] Action: Laurenceb_ is running 10.04
[10:08] <fsphil> fedora 15 will be using gnome 3 -- which is pretty naff
[10:08] <NigelMoby> Stick with it, 10.10 is awful
[10:09] <Laurenceb_> i need to try kde
[10:09] <NigelMoby> Gnome is pretty screwed atm they need to ditch x for wayland.
[10:10] Shuffty (~Shuffty@188-221-227-102.zone12.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[10:12] <NigelMoby> Interesting to see Linux mint toying with a debian base instead of polishing the ubuntu packages
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[10:14] <fsphil> nice bit of ascii art on this servers motd
[10:15] <NigelMoby> Oo
[10:16] <NigelMoby> Laurence last time I tried kde it just seemed terribly bloated and unresponsive
[10:17] <Laurenceb_> fair enough
[10:18] <fsphil> I've not tried kde for a loooong time
[10:18] <fsphil> will give it a go if gnome 3 sucks as bad as I think it will
[10:18] <NigelMoby> Which on a c2d with 4 gig ram and 8800gtx seemed very odd
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[10:26] <Shuffty> I'm trying to figure out why my ntx2 sounds slightly different to other examples I've seen - I'm running the ntx2 without an aerial, and the ft-790r is also running without a radio - do you think that could be the cause?
[10:26] <Shuffty> http://shuffty.blogspot.com/
[10:27] <Shuffty> erm - ft790r is running without an aerial, not a radio :-S
[10:28] <fsphil> that would've been impressive
[10:28] <fsphil> lack of aerials won't affect it at short range -- though you should probably stick a small wire on the ntx2 at least
[10:31] <jonsowman> Shuffty: shouldn't be an issue
[10:31] <fsphil> hmm .. that dosen't sound too healthy
[10:31] <fsphil> how have you it wired up?
[10:32] <jonsowman> Shuffty: what baud rate is that?
[10:32] <jonsowman> or supposed to be anyway
[10:33] <jgrahamc> Might be an idea to post your RTTY code somewhere we can read
[10:35] <Shuffty> I've used the code from the icarus project...
[10:35] <Shuffty> **/
[10:35] <Shuffty> #define ASCII_BIT 8
[10:35] <Shuffty> #define BAUD_RATE 10000 // 10000 = 100 BAUD 20150
[10:35] <NigelMoby> Eek
[10:35] <Shuffty> void rtty_txbit (int bit);
[10:35] <Shuffty> void rtty_txbyte (char c);
[10:35] <russss> err
[10:35] <jgrahamc> Argh. Not the whole code here. Save us! ;-)
[10:35] <Shuffty> void rtty_txstring (char * string);
[10:35] <Shuffty> void rtty_txstring (char * string)
[10:35] <Shuffty> {
[10:35] <Shuffty> /* Simple function to sent a char at a time to
[10:35] <Shuffty> ** rtty_txbyte function.
[10:36] <Shuffty> ** NB Each char is one byte (8 Bits)
[10:36] <Shuffty> */
[10:36] <Shuffty> char c;
[10:36] <Shuffty> c = *string++;
[10:36] <jonsowman> nooo
[10:36] <Shuffty> while ( c != '\0')
[10:36] <Shuffty> {
[10:36] <Shuffty> rtty_txbyte (c);
[10:36] <Shuffty> c = *string++;
[10:36] <Shuffty> }
[10:36] <russss> I imagine this is what it must have been like to code using a teleprinter.
[10:36] <Shuffty> }
[10:36] <fsphil> I'm so glad I don't have the text-to-speechenabled
[10:36] <Shuffty> void rtty_txbyte (char c)
[10:36] <Shuffty> {
[10:36] <Shuffty> /* Simple function to sent each bit of a char to
[10:36] <jonsowman> hahaha
[10:36] <Shuffty> ** rtty_txbit function.
[10:36] <Shuffty> ** NB The bits are sent Least Significant Bit first
[10:36] <Shuffty> **
[10:36] <Shuffty> ** All chars should be preceded with a 0 and
[10:36] <Shuffty> ** proceded with a 1. 0 = Start bit; 1 = Stop bit
[10:36] <Shuffty> **
[10:36] <Laurenceb_> eek
[10:36] <Shuffty> ** ASCII_BIT = 7 or 8 for ASCII-7 / ASCII-8
[10:36] <Shuffty> */
[10:36] <Shuffty> int i;
[10:36] <Shuffty> rtty_txbit (0); // Start bit
[10:36] <Shuffty> // Send bits for for char LSB first
[10:36] <Shuffty> for (i=0;i<ASCII_BIT;i++)
[10:36] <Shuffty> {
[10:36] <Shuffty> if (c & 1) rtty_txbit(1);
[10:36] <Shuffty> else rtty_txbit(0);
[10:37] <Shuffty> c = c >> 1;
[10:37] <fsphil> txbyte .. nearly there
[10:37] <Shuffty> }
[10:37] <Shuffty> rtty_txbit (1); // Stop bit
[10:37] <NigelMoby> Lol
[10:37] <Shuffty> }
[10:37] <Shuffty> void rtty_txbit (int bit)
[10:37] <jgrahamc> This hurts so bad :-)
[10:37] <Shuffty> {
[10:37] <Shuffty> if (bit)
[10:37] <Shuffty> {
[10:37] #highaltitude: mode change '+o natrium42' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:37] <Shuffty> // high
[10:37] <Shuffty> digitalWrite(11, HIGH);
[10:37] <Shuffty> digitalWrite(9, LOW);
[10:37] Shuffty kicked from #highaltitude by natrium42: Shuffty
[10:37] <NigelMoby> Uhoh
[10:37] <jonsowman> wise natrium42
[10:37] #highaltitude: mode change '-o natrium42' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:37] <jonsowman> I was considering it
[10:37] <natrium42> :)
[10:37] <russss> I'm surprised the server didn't boot him off actually
[10:37] <NigelMoby> My poor mobile client lol
[10:38] <jonsowman> yeah... what flood filters are configured on this channel?
[10:38] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[10:38] <russss> I'm not sure how you do it on a per-channel basis with freenode
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[10:38] <fsphil> it was too slow for a flood kick I think
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[10:38] <jonsowman> russss: me neither. I'll ask chanserv
[10:38] <NigelMoby> His client was using 5 line delay
[10:38] <jonsowman> fsphil: ah yes
[10:39] <fsphil> wb Shuffty :)
[10:39] <Shuffty> Oops..
[10:39] KingJ (~KingJ-FN@95.154.197.17) got netsplit.
[10:39] Nick change: KingJ- -> KingJ
[10:39] Possible future nick collision: KingJ
[10:39] <NigelMoby> Lol wb dude
[10:39] <natrium42> XD
[10:40] <natrium42> Shuffty: pastie.org :P
[10:41] <NigelMoby> Pastie...mmm...fancy a pie for lunch now, tnx natrium!!
[10:41] <Shuffty> So, the code is here... http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/ideas:notes
[10:41] <Shuffty> :-)
[10:42] <fsphil> I suspect it's a hardware bug
[10:42] <Shuffty> The only addition is to make pin 8 high to enable the ntx2 to transmit.
[10:42] <fsphil> yea .. it sounds like the ntx2 is being switched on and off
[10:42] <Shuffty> On the ft790r?
[10:43] <Shuffty> Erm - yes it is...
[10:43] <jgrahamc> Good call fsphil
[10:43] <jonsowman> fsphil: it does
[10:43] <Shuffty> I turn it on - delay for a moment and then switch it off unpon completion... should it be left high?
[10:43] <jonsowman> Shuffty: yes
[10:44] <jgrahamc> He could shut it off between transmissions, but it almost sounded like it was being shut off per bit. Is there some odd connection set up going on?
[10:45] <jonsowman> after power on it takes some time for the oscillator to settle
[10:45] <jonsowman> after power on you need a 500ms delay or better to allow it to do so... or just don't turn it off
[10:46] <Shuffty> ok cheers. I'll have a crack at that now.
[10:47] <fsphil> leaving it on can be useful, unless you're limited by battery power
[10:48] <Shuffty> In the testing phase the arduino is hard wired, so not limited at the moment.
[10:49] <jgrahamc> On GAGA-1 the NTX2 is hard wired to be on all the time. For an up/down flight I don't think it's going to drain the battery...
[10:50] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: I doubt it, uses a small amount of power
[10:50] <jonsowman> having the radio on all the time is helpful for listeners anyway
[10:50] <jgrahamc> I was going to shut it off, but I figured that being able to find the signal whenever I wanted outweighed the tiny battery drain.
[10:50] <jonsowman> indeed
[10:53] <Shuffty> Ok, so I've turned the transmitter on (pin 8 high) at the time on setup in the sketch... then just leaving it running. No difference.
[10:53] <fsphil> is something else toggling the pin?
[10:54] <Shuffty> The carrier tone is constant now - but it still sounds different to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsq4JY42-eA
[10:54] <fsphil> ooh that sounds good
[10:55] <Shuffty> lol - yeah, but it isnt mine... lol
[10:55] <Shuffty> :-)
[10:55] <jgrahamc> I did the same double take. That sounds just like RTTY :-)
[10:55] <fsphil> aah that's matts
[10:56] <fsphil> try wiring the EN pin of the NTX2 to VCC directly
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[11:00] <NigeyS> interesting..
[11:00] <NigeyS> Space tourism flights could blast off from Scotland under Government plans to overhaul the space regulatory regime, science minister David Willetts has said.
[11:01] <Shuffty> ok - wired EN directly to the 3.3v VCC - uploading video now. Still sounds the same I think.
[11:01] #highaltitude: mode change '-o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[11:09] <NigeyS> odd quit msg :|
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[11:10] <jonsowman> oops
[11:11] <NigeyS> what ya break?
[11:11] <jonsowman> not entirely sure... irssi had a weird moment
[11:11] <NigeyS> Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number
[11:12] <jonsowman> uh
[11:12] <jonsowman> I see
[11:12] <NigeyS> lol, not seen that error b4 but hey ho there we go :|
[11:12] <jonsowman> me neither
[11:18] <Shuffty> http://gallery.me.com/chrisrustage#100009/IMG_3731
[11:19] <Shuffty> Still not sounding the same.... is it at all possible that the resistor configuration is incorrect? I havent done any calculations, just used the layout from the icarus project http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/ideas:notes
[11:20] <jonsowman> is it idling high or low?
[11:21] <Shuffty> high.
[11:23] <fsphil> the low voltage might be too low
[11:23] <fsphil> if you tune down, is there another signal?
[11:26] <Shuffty> It's bleeding all over the show to be fair, but it doesnt seem to repeat with any significant clarity.
[11:27] <Shuffty> Should I feed the vcc with 5v?
[11:27] <fsphil> what are you powering it with now?
[11:27] <Shuffty> 3.3 from the arduino
[11:27] <jonsowman> 3V3 should be fine
[11:27] <fsphil> ah, nah it won't matter
[11:28] <jgrahamc> Is it possible that you are going over 3V3 on the input pin on the NTX2? The Arduino pins are up to 5V.
[11:30] <Shuffty> Hmmm
[11:32] <jgrahamc> If you flip Vcc to be 5V and the problem goes away I'd guess it's because you are putting >3V3 into the input pin.
[11:33] <fsphil> the ntx2 has an internal regulator, the voltage at vcc won't matter unless it dips below 3v
[11:36] <fsphil> can you take a picture of how you've it wired up?
[11:36] <jgrahamc> Ah. I did not know that.
[11:38] <Shuffty> http://gallery.me.com/chrisrustage#100009/IMG_3733
[11:39] <jgrahamc> Ground?
[11:40] <NigeyS> yeah you're missing a gnd cable
[11:40] <jgrahamc> Ignore that.
[11:42] <Shuffty> :-) Its grounded to the arduino..
[11:45] <Shuffty> Time to go to work.. Thanks again for your help everyone... will have to look into it again later.
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[13:08] <russss> Soyuz launch site in Guiana is (finally) ready: http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMUE17UPLG_index_0.html
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> http://www.esa.int/images/_SC10810.jpg <-nice
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> i spot cosco container
[13:18] <russss> yeah it looks a lot more shiny than Baikonur :P
[13:18] <Dan-K2VOL> pretty indeed
[13:19] <russss> it doesn't look like it took 5 years to build, though!
[13:20] <Dan-K2VOL> it would take me more than 5 years to build that :-P
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[13:21] <russss> sure, but it's just a couple of sheds and some steelwork
[13:28] <fsphil> I bet the people living near that just love it ;-)
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[13:33] <russss> I think it's pretty remote
[13:37] <russss> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=kourou&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.887315,84.638672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Kourou,+Cayenne,+French+Guiana&ll=5.170265,-52.685323&spn=0.008046,0.010332&t=h&z=17
[13:37] <russss> pretty close to kourou itself but that's a pretty small town
[13:41] <LazyLeopard> Where're the actual launch pads?
[13:44] <russss> I can't find them
[13:44] <LazyLeopard> A little way up the N1, it seems.
[13:44] <russss> there is a map on Wikipedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Detail_site_Kourou-en.svg
[13:49] <LazyLeopard> These them? --> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=5.227589,-52.77317&z=15
[13:49] <russss> ah yes, must be
[13:49] <russss> I was confused by the place name there
[13:50] <LazyLeopard> There's a bit more just south...
[13:51] <LazyLeopard> Buildings well distributed...
[13:51] <russss> yeah, plenty of space
[13:51] <russss> doesn't seem like they started building the Soyuz site when those aerial photos were taken
[13:51] <russss> although it says copyright 2011
[13:55] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, but copyright date is often just the date they finally processed the requisite imagery...
[13:55] <russss> from wikipedia it looks like it should be here. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=5.227589,-52.77317&ie=UTF8&ll=5.292118,-52.829282&spn=0.016089,0.020664&t=h&z=16
[13:56] <russss> and there's not much there
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[14:04] <tyrosine> greetings near-spacers!
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> Quack.
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[14:13] <Upu> wibble
[14:14] <jgrahamc> wooble?
[14:15] <jgrahamc> Looking at the predictor the winds seem to have changed a lot!
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[14:21] <LazyLeopard> Favourably, or otherwise?
[14:23] <jgrahamc> Not favourably
[14:23] <LazyLeopard> Bah.
[14:23] <LazyLeopard> A pox on the weather, then...
[14:24] <LazyLeopard> I've been waiting a day or three for some non-blustery hours in dry daylight...
[14:27] <fsphil> evil weather
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[14:27] <jgrahamc> evil British wether
[14:27] <jgrahamc> or even weather
[14:27] <jgrahamc> Of course it could all change again. We are talking in 9 days time.
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[14:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/user/spacexchannel#p/c/F0D3A9748DC5E42D/0/th6HQ9RtVCE (spacex)
[14:37] Action: SpeedEvil wonders.
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[14:46] <NigeyS> is the key word in that video "big" i wonder
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
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[14:49] <SpeedEvil> Falcon heavy actually launching would seem to be one option.
[14:50] <russss> my bet is Falcon X
[14:52] <russss> it would certainly put a large amount of egg on NASA's face if they could get a heavy launch vehicle out quicker than they could with heritage tech.
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[14:53] Action: SpeedEvil idly wonders what'd happen to an egg in vacuum.
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> I suppose you'd end up - eventually - with a freeze-dried egg
[14:53] <russss> but tbh it's just a case of plugging their existing stuff together slightly differently
[14:53] <russss> NASA has to work out how to best please everyone and how to appear to be cost-efficient by reusing old stuff
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> I misremembered falcon-X required development of new engines.
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> I can't seem to find why I thought this - is there another concept that they have that does?
[14:54] <russss> wait, no, it does.
[14:54] <russss> my bad
[14:54] <russss> it's based on the Merlin 2
[14:55] <russss> so perhaps they'll announce the development of the Merlin 2 and the Falcon X.
[14:55] <russss> because an engine isn't very exciting if there's nothing for it to power
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right - 2 isn't there yet
[14:56] <russss> hmm, but wikipedia also says they'll use a Merlin 2 for the Falcon 9 Heavy, which kind of contradicts itself
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[14:56] <russss> I thought the F9 Heavy was just three F9s strapped together, a la Atlas 5 Heavy
[14:57] <russss> "Slated to be introduced on more capable variants of the Falcon 9 Heavy"
[14:57] <russss> who knows.
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[14:57] <russss> I guess they'll introduce some kind of slightly boring roadmap
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[15:08] <rjharrison> hi all
[15:08] <rjharrison> ping juxta
[15:08] <rjharrison> Hey natrium42 did juxta get your tracker working with the listener
[15:09] <rjharrison> hey Upu just go back from doing a talk at the west yorkshire schools space week
[15:09] <rjharrison> !me
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> rjharrison: Seen the spacex thingy?
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> Well - announcement that there will be a thingy
[15:10] <rjharrison> oh no
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/user/spacexchannel#p/c/F0D3A9748DC5E42D/0/th6HQ9RtVCE
[15:10] <rjharrison> cool when
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> 'something big is coming on the 5th'
[15:10] <rjharrison> thanks ian
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[15:16] <russss> ah
[15:17] <russss> someone spotted that their manifest has changed: http://www.spacex.com/launch_manifest.php
[15:17] <russss> "Falcon Heavy Demo Flight", 2012 from Vandenberg
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> aha
[15:17] <russss> so F9 Heavy, which is slightly boring
[15:18] <russss> glue a couple of rockets together
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> Somewhat boring, not very though.
[15:22] <russss> the price could be exciting.
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> And the potential customer.
[15:23] <rjharrison> SpeedEvil thanks for that the whole site was interesting
[15:24] <SpeedEvil> SpaceX is inmany ways the way spaceflight should be going.
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[15:54] <Laurenceb_> looll slashdot
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> epic april fools
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[16:06] <fsphil> I was half expecting Duke4 to be released today for real
[16:06] <jonsowman> fsphil: haha
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[16:43] <jackwardell> hello?
[16:43] <fsphil> heya jackwardell
[16:43] <jackwardell> what exactly is this?
[16:44] <fsphil> exactly? It's an IRC channel where people discuss high altitude projects :)
[16:44] <jackwardell> oh cool, just what i'm looking for
[16:44] <jackwardell> how many people are on atm>
[16:45] <fsphil> there's 65 users, but how many are actually at their computers I don't know
[16:45] <fsphil> it tends to be busier in the evenings (UK time)
[16:46] <jackwardell> I've got a high-altitude project going, I just have a little problem, do you think you could help?
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[16:46] <fsphil> fire away. if I can't maybe someone else can
[16:46] <jackwardell> I need to track the balloon, however I've hear GPS doesn't work over 10km or something, how do i overcome this?
[16:47] <fsphil> certain GPS modules won't work, but some will
[16:47] <fsphil> anything based on a ublox5 chip will work fine
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> There is a list of modules that work on the wiki.
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[16:47] <SpeedEvil> Where are you jackwardell?
[16:48] <fsphil> there's a list here: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[16:48] <jackwardell> i come from oxford
[16:48] <jackwardell> england
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> Ah - lots of people around that area.
[16:48] <jackwardell> this is perfect
[16:48] <jackwardell> thanks so much
[16:48] <fsphil> I believe some onf the newer venus chips work -- but they're untested
[16:48] <MNSP> hello all :)
[16:48] <fsphil> hiya MNSP
[16:49] <jackwardell> even so, how much are the cheapest of the GPS systems?
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> 30 quiddish.
[16:50] <jackwardell> does it come pre-wired and ready, or will i need to do some work?
[16:50] <MNSP> pity theres no central resource of gps modules that will work above 18km
[16:50] <fsphil> you'll likely have to do something
[16:50] <fsphil> depends on the gps module, and what you're going to connect it to
[16:51] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone use iPad or iphone here?
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[16:52] <MNSP> do you mean to send up or just in general dan-k2vol
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> I use an ipad as toilet paper.
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL> oh just in general
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> (not really)
[16:52] <MNSP> have an old ipod
[16:52] <jackwardell> i have an ipad
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> I have idly contemplated reterofitting an ipad screen into something.
[16:52] <Dan-K2VOL> oh, I was going to hit you up for a donation if you were that rich SpeedEvil!
[16:52] <MNSP> lol, speedevil
[16:53] <fsphil> lol
[16:53] <NigeyS> lol
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> But the platform does not appeal in general.
[16:53] <SpeedEvil> I mean - the hardware is fine - but...
[16:53] <fsphil> no loo roll? there's an app for that ...
[16:53] <NigeyS> hey Dan
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> make sure you've got the USTREAM app for viewing white star video feed
[16:53] <MNSP> dunno, I quiet fancy an ipad2
[16:53] <fsphil> tis android for me I thinks
[16:53] <Dan-K2VOL> there was some people last launch that didn't realize they could watch it live on iPads and iPhones, thought the flash player was the only oprion
[16:53] <fsphil> if I ever get around to buying a new phone
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> I assume the androids can do the flash app?
[16:54] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: I have both
[16:54] <NigeyS> they have their own app for android
[16:54] <Dan-K2VOL> oh good, NigeyS I'll put a link to that too if I can find it, on the streaming page
[16:55] <fsphil> coolies
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> http://wiki.whitestarballoon.com/doku.php?id=streaming
[16:55] <NigeyS> sweet! :D
[16:55] <W0OTM> ustream doesn't have an app for ipad, only iphone/ipod
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> it will still give as good of a res view as we're transmitting I believe
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> which isn't HD
[16:55] <W0OTM> "USTREAM iOS app is not a native iPad app. As with any iPhone app, it runs fine on iPad, just with bigger pixels. It might seem annoying, but rest assured that we're not sending out any better video than you see with the iPhone version. Use the 2x button to make it full screen on iPad."
[16:55] <Dan-K2VOL> lol I just wrote that W0OTM
[16:56] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: I know
[16:56] <NigeyS> Dan-K2VOL, should have the youtube stuff finished over the weekend to
[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL> cool
[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL> it is odd that it's not got an iPad app yet
[16:56] <Dan-K2VOL> nice NigeyS, should be ready to fly over the weeekend :-D
[16:56] <fsphil> I suppose if the video resolution won't improve, they're not in that much of a rush
[16:56] <fsphil> this weekend?
[16:57] <MNSP> really?
[16:57] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: Also note that viewing from the ustream site directly, using quicktime, locks up after a few min
[16:57] <Dan-K2VOL> emphasis on READY
[16:57] <Dan-K2VOL> the Jet Stream has to be ready too
[16:57] <fsphil> I'll have a word with it
[16:57] <NigeyS> yey fingers crossed dan!
[16:57] <Dan-K2VOL> please do phil
[16:57] <Dan-K2VOL> that's interesting, do you have a link to that page W0OTM?
[16:58] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: ??
[16:58] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: to what?
[16:58] <Dan-K2VOL> I'm not sure how you're viewing with quicktime, I thought the player was all flash
[16:59] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: no
[16:59] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: ustream video streams in quicktime directly from the website (problematic)
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[17:00] <W0OTM> (on an iOS device)
[17:00] <Dan-K2VOL> really!
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[17:00] <Dan-K2VOL> very interesting
[17:00] <W0OTM> been watching the eagles for the past several days
[17:00] <Dan-K2VOL> then I'll just leave that ios app download as the ios device recommendation
[17:01] <Dan-K2VOL> anyone have a link to the Palm ustream client?
[17:01] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL: no biggie, jst thought I would share
[17:02] <fsphil> streaming on ios does seem to be a right royal pain
[17:02] <Dan-K2VOL> I've had great luck with NetFlix video streaming on it
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> I think it's a matter of how they implement it
[17:03] <fsphil> it seems to work well for pre-compressed content, but not live
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> love hooking my phone up to the projector at the hackerspace to have some interesting science documentary playing while we hack
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> ahh fsphil
[17:03] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
[17:04] <fsphil> I've a few webcams and I was never able to stream them to the iphone properly
[17:04] <fsphil> but a plain mp4 file plays fine
[17:04] <Dan-K2VOL> I've watched a lot of MST3K on Justin.TV and it works fine when the bandwidth is there
[17:04] <Dan-K2VOL> but again that's prestored
[17:04] <Dan-K2VOL> hmm
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[17:05] <fsphil> I seen nasa tv using a playlist trick .. pre-compressed blocks of about 30 seconds, rotated
[17:05] <Dan-K2VOL> I think that a lot of things haven't conformed yet to the protocols that the graphics hardware is optimized for
[17:05] <Dan-K2VOL> that's interesting
[17:05] <fsphil> yea, they capture and compress a block while the last one is playing
[17:05] <fsphil> basically a kind of double buffering
[17:05] <Dan-K2VOL> I wondered why the progress bar moved while watching the shuttle dock!
[17:05] <fsphil> but it introduces a lot of latency
[17:05] <MNSP> Don't know if it was my badwidth or what but when I was watching pre-launch, the mic kept being turned off
[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> for the mission control headsets?
[17:06] <Dan-K2VOL> MNSP ^^
[17:06] <fsphil> brb, doggie needs a walk
[17:06] <MNSP> well yeah I could hear that part ok, it was just the nits inbetween
[17:06] <MNSP> *bits
[17:07] <MNSP> what Im getting at is It would be good (for me anyway) if a mic was just left on so we could hear the to and fro
[17:07] <MNSP> there was one point where a bunch of people all rushed over to one area and sort of hudled
[17:08] <MNSP> lol, would have loved to hear what was going on
[17:08] <MNSP> just a thought
[17:09] <Dan-K2VOL> haha yeahhh that part
[17:09] <Dan-K2VOL> the huddle
[17:09] <Dan-K2VOL> that was the sort of thing we were a little reluctant to have on air
[17:10] <Dan-K2VOL> as we were talking about severely degrading the safety of the mission
[17:10] <MNSP> lol
[17:10] <MNSP> I think this was about 30 mins before most left for the launch site
[17:10] <imrcly> i came up with a different layout that will allow the launch to be more visible
[17:10] <Dan-K2VOL> yep, that's when the 5v power bus died
[17:10] <Dan-K2VOL> which killed the strobe light
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> we can legally fly without it
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> but were discussing if we ought to
[17:11] <NigeyS> ahh the huddle..lol
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> and there was a lot of nonprofessional swearing
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> we'll leave the mic on for as much as we can stand
[17:11] <NigeyS> i didnt swear on mic once!
[17:11] <Dan-K2VOL> but reserve the right to keep it off when we need to :-)
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[17:11] <MNSP> I was thinking that it looked like there was going to be swearing
[17:12] <imrcly> i think that is when we decided to go get food rather than freeze at the launch site
[17:12] <MNSP> that sounds great Dan
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> haha NigeyS you were great
[17:12] <NigeyS> me and my random scarce input yup lol
[17:12] <Dan-K2VOL> I would actually have it on more if I had a wireless headset, I'll see if imrcly will let me use his
[17:12] <MNSP> actually Im surprised there wasn't a great deal more swearing
[17:13] <imrcly> it was at the space
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> lol the mics were PTT
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> we must have been good at timing the PTT MNSP ;-)
[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> imrcly lol yeah, I just haven't gotten around to setting it up
[17:14] <Dan-K2VOL> imrcly what's your launch site layout idea
[17:14] <MNSP> hmm I wonder if you could pre record by say a min, might help with streaming??
[17:14] <NigeyS> could you have imagined the mics on vox when the 5 volt died..lol bleeeeeeeeeep
[17:14] <MNSP> lol and bleeping
[17:14] <MNSP> bleep bleep bleeeeep!!!!
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> lol mnsp the fact that we have more than a single iPhone broadcasting the stream is a monumental acheivement - we really could have used all the time it took to get all that set up and working to do more on the payload
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> but I know it's important to let the interested people have a peek
[17:15] <NigeyS> it worked well though dan, fair play
[17:15] <imrcly> jose has the diagram
[17:15] <MNSP> its a good way to raise your profile and HABing in general
[17:15] <Dan-K2VOL> thank you NigeyS, I was very pleased with it too. We might get a second cam running in mission control if someone brings one in
[17:16] <NigeyS> try not to broadcast ure cell number next time though lol
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> sure
[17:16] <Dan-K2VOL> haha ah well, win some, lose some
[17:16] <NigeyS> 2 cams.. nooooo i had enough tabs to watch as it was haha! could borrow the housemates spare monitor, have 3 :|
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> I don't mind balloon stalkers, they at least have common interests :-P
[17:17] <MNSP> Or you could record the whole thing and then put it out as live the next day.. Worked for the moon landing :D
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> lol I mean the stream will switch between cams
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[17:17] <Dan-K2VOL> we do need to record it though, none of it was saved last time
[17:17] <NigeyS> oh phew!
[17:18] <MNSP> oh! Now that is a shame
[17:18] <imrcly> the broadcaster records seperate from ustream and justin.tv
[17:18] <NigeyS> what was the main broadcast software ?
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[17:20] <Dan-K2VOL> WireCast
[17:20] <Dan-K2VOL> it's OK
[17:20] <Dan-K2VOL> a horrible UI
[17:20] <Dan-K2VOL> but someone donated it
[17:21] <Dan-K2VOL> imrcly I think we just need to TELL it to record :-)
[17:21] <NigeyS> ahhh
[17:21] <imrcly> yeah
[17:21] <imrcly> it is in a different menu from broadcast
[17:21] <NigeyS> hope you have a nice BIG hdd spare for the recording
[17:21] <Dan-K2VOL> heh
[17:21] <Dan-K2VOL> damn video files
[17:21] <Dan-K2VOL> all huge
[17:21] <NigeyS> yups, bloody huge buggers!
[17:22] <MNSP> or you could record seperately, diff cam and setup - again just thinkingout loud
[17:22] <NigeyS> liked the clock to dan, nice and BIG!
[17:23] <Dan-K2VOL> oh was it running?
[17:23] <NigeyS> the clock in MC
[17:23] <NigeyS> at the front
[17:23] <Dan-K2VOL> I mean was it turned on?
[17:23] <NigeyS> yups
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[17:24] <Dan-K2VOL> what was it displaying, time or countdown?
[17:24] <NigeyS> i think it was MET ?
[17:24] <Dan-K2VOL> lol guess that would have been a bunch of zeroes then
[17:24] <Dan-K2VOL> but that's the intended in-flight use of it
[17:24] <NigeyS> lol
[17:25] <Dan-K2VOL> it was really neat to have you guys over in Europe on the loop, I liked hearing how multi-national the voices were
[17:26] <NigeyS> :D i promise not to start speaking welsh though
[17:29] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[17:30] <eroomde> or 'QRM' is it's sometimes known
[17:30] <Dan-K2VOL> When I get back from the launch site I'll provide voiceover commentary
[17:32] <NigeyS> yey
[17:32] <MNSP> time to go, see you all around :)
[17:32] <NigeyS> hey Ed :)
[17:32] <NigeyS> see ya MNSP
[17:32] <eroomde> hello
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[17:32] <NigeyS> how was the blimping in the alps then ?
[17:33] <eroomde> very good thanks!
[17:33] <eroomde> a fun couple of weeks
[17:33] <eroomde> we got some good results
[17:33] <NigeyS> excellent, no major hicups?
[17:33] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K29dn0Mzspk
[17:33] <eroomde> well, all the usual hardware pickups
[17:33] <eroomde> hickups*
[17:33] <eroomde> being assembled and being ready to fly are two completely different things :)
[17:34] <fsphil> ustream must have some bandwidth -- there's 125755 viewers watching an eagle webcam. that's more viewers than most tv channels
[17:34] <NigeyS> hehe oh yes, quite different, nice take off though!!
[17:34] <NigeyS> eagle..
[17:34] <NigeyS> as in.. bird ?
[17:35] <fsphil> yea
[17:35] <fsphil> http://www.ustream.tv/decoraheagles
[17:35] <NigeyS> hmm.. ok .. thats alot of viewers for a bird :|
[17:35] <fsphil> it's sitting looking around it :)
[17:36] <fsphil> ah, it's incubating
[17:36] <NigeyS> does it do anything if you prod it with a stick ?
[17:36] <fsphil> it may eat you
[17:36] <NigeyS> least it'll be doing something
[17:37] <fsphil> I've been nipped by a house sparrow - and that's pretty painful. you'd loose your finger pretty quickly going near that thing
[17:37] <NigeyS> oh aye, been had by a few little birds the cats tried to get hold of
[17:37] <fsphil> lol
[17:37] <fsphil> is your cat any good at catching them?
[17:38] <NigeyS> he seems to manage ok, he never quites eats them though, just fatally wounds them and plays catch with them :|
[17:38] <fsphil> eek
[17:39] <fsphil> our sorta-resident moggy is just rubbish, but tries really heard
[17:39] <fsphil> hard*
[17:39] <NigeyS> lol aww, tiddles has managed a pidgeon .. thats his largest, im trying to get him to go for the big geese at the local lake but he's not having any of it :/
[17:39] <Dan-K2VOL> ah my dog caught a possum last night and was quite pleased with himself, he was throwing it all over the yard. I couldn't bring myself to tell him that he's got to work harder than that to kill one of those :-P
[17:40] <fsphil> lol
[17:40] <NigeyS> lmao Dan
[17:40] <NigeyS> funny thing is ...
[17:40] <fsphil> my dog caught a mouse once, that's about the height of it
[17:40] <NigeyS> my cat is petrified of our hamster
[17:40] <fsphil> haha
[17:40] <Dan-K2VOL> haha NigeyS
[17:41] <NigeyS> if its in the cage, hes fine, but if i take the hamster out asnd let him run around, the cats sh*t scared oh im :|
[17:41] <fsphil> was that your dog I seen running around the space a while back?
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[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> yep fsphil
[17:42] <NigeyS> and what was that horse all about?!
[17:42] <fsphil> horse?
[17:42] <NigeyS> horse/donkey. 1 of the 2
[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> my dog is a mutt from the shelter
[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> the horse is funny
[17:42] <fsphil> trying to out-animal the aussies?
[17:42] <NigeyS> lmao
[17:42] <Dan-K2VOL> it's an animatronic toy that we bought on craigslist for $25. it's normally $250 toy for rich kids
[17:43] <fsphil> ooooh
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> it's quite an advanced gizmo, it has touch sensors all over it, sound sensors, IR motion sensors
[17:43] <NigeyS> i looked away from the monitor, and when i looked back the cam had been turned and dans leaning on this white horsey thing .. how i chuckled!
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> and you can sit on it
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[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> it moves it's ears, tail, eyeballs, lips (separately!) and jaw
[17:43] <Dan-K2VOL> and turns it's head side to side
[17:44] <NigeyS> crikey, and you got that for $25?!
[17:44] <Dan-K2VOL> the plan in the hackerspace is to mod it so that it can breathe fire and poop jellybeans
[17:44] <fsphil> fire is good
[17:44] <Dan-K2VOL> why those features are the goal I do not know
[17:44] <Dan-K2VOL> lol not my project
[17:44] <NigeyS> id rather not eat a jelly bean thats come out of a horses ***e :|
[17:44] <fsphil> I'm so opening a hackspace!
[17:45] <Dan-K2VOL> NigeyS yeah, from a parent that was sick of hearing it make noises at her whenever she walked by it!
[17:45] <NigeyS> hahaha oh god
[17:45] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil you should!
[17:45] <NigeyS> and i thought the chickens were bad!
[17:45] <Dan-K2VOL> brings all kinds of cool poeple out of the woodwork
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> there might be one nearby though, there's a bunch over there in the UK
[17:46] <Dan-K2VOL> (i'm sorry, what is the correct term to encompass all the island nations around there?)
[17:46] <fsphil> nearest one is 40 miles away, and I don't think it's too busy
[17:46] <fsphil> close enough
[17:47] <NigeyS> the U.K works fine dan hehe
[17:47] <fsphil> technically the british isles, but that's just awkward :)
[17:47] <NigeyS> yeah, makes us sounds small and puney :|
[17:48] <Dan-K2VOL> ok cool :-) I thought that was ok till i saw a map one time talking about the british isles, the UK, England, Britain, Scotland, N. Ireland, the other ireland and it really messed up my mental references
[17:48] <fsphil> lol
[17:48] <eroomde> united kingdom of great britian and northern ireland
[17:48] <NigeyS> the "other" ireland haha i like that !
[17:48] <eroomde> there's not a one that includes ireland as far as i know
[17:48] <Dan-K2VOL> heh see
[17:48] <eroomde> my passport says united kingdom of great britian and northern ireland anyway
[17:48] <Dan-K2VOL> oh ok
[17:49] <Dan-K2VOL> that's interesting eroomde
[17:49] <NigeyS> yup ure right Ed .. that'll be the official thingy watsit :|
[17:49] <eroomde> but as fsphil says, 'british isles' includes ireland
[17:49] <fsphil> not sure where the isle of man fits in though
[17:49] <Dan-K2VOL> if it makes you feel better I have no idea why the 'state' of Kentucky (where I currently live) is actually the 'Commonweath of Kentucky' not a state
[17:50] <NigeyS> so that makes me, a welsh british national of the united kingdom of great britain and n orthern ireland .. dam say that when you're drunk!
[17:50] <Dan-K2VOL> hehe
[17:50] <NigeyS> oh yeah we also have the commonwealth to :|
[17:51] <eroomde> just seen on a poster in a doctor's: 'tinnitus: don't suffer in silence'
[17:51] <eroomde> lolzor
[17:51] <fsphil> I was actually pretty surprised when I learned that the various US states where pretty much independent countries at one point
[17:51] <NigeyS> lol
[17:51] <fsphil> lol
[17:51] <NigeyS> its the police forces in the states that pickle me, dont you have like, state troopers, local sheriff, federal police etc etc ?
[17:52] <eroomde> trigued by the above too ^
[17:53] <NigeyS> it seems oddly crazy, but maybe perfectly logical under their judicial system etc
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[17:57] <russss> eroomde: cool blimp videos, must be a nice place to fly it
[17:57] <Dan-K2VOL> fsphil and NigeyS yeah I think it's a completly awful system of law enforcement and government
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[17:59] <NigeyS> we have reigonal police forces here, but i think thats about it .. apart from the national crime squad ...
[18:00] <Dan-K2VOL> I honestly think that we waste so much time and effort and money on having decentralized local decisionmaking, as if all 30,000 towns face situations that require completely unique laws
[18:00] <NigeyS> recipe for chaos by the sounds of it
[18:00] <Dan-K2VOL> yes, and corruption
[18:01] <NigeyS> where's there's politics, there's corruption .. :(
[18:01] <Dan-K2VOL> eh, I don't mean to get on a political tangent, but the fact that no one polices the local police forces behavior is really a problem
[18:01] <Dan-K2VOL> I for one welcome our computer overlords :-P
[18:02] <NigeyS> yes! all hail the microchip! lol
[18:02] <NigeyS> lol @ the news "earthquake shakes blackpool" it was only a 2.2 !
[18:03] <Dan-K2VOL> May the clock cycle forever, and that stack never meet thine heap
[18:03] <NigeyS> haha good 1 Dan! :D
[18:03] <Dan-K2VOL> reminds me of the Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy supercomputers
[18:04] <NigeyS> 42!
[18:05] <jgrahamc> Who manages the Upcoming Launches page on the wiki?
[18:05] <fsphil> anyone
[18:05] <NigeyS> hey jgrahamc
[18:05] <Dan-K2VOL> the wiki is a "fix it if you find it wrong " management system
[18:05] <NigeyS> hm got to love wikipedia...
[18:05] <NigeyS> 42 (forty-two) is the natural number following 41 and preceding 43.
[18:06] <eroomde> 42 * pi = leet, apparently
[18:06] <eroomde> which is fun
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> we each occasionally try to wander around it and update a few things when we can squeeze in time
[18:06] <NigeyS> someone did the drake equation and came up with 32 once .. that was kinda scary
[18:06] <eroomde> jgrahamc: no one
[18:06] <NigeyS> 42*
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> jgrahamc, what's up
[18:06] <eroomde> anyone
[18:06] <Dan-K2VOL> lol sorry jgrahamc I was editing the wiki and thought you meant the white star one
[18:06] <jgrahamc> I just figured I'd add my tentative launch next Sunday.
[18:07] <NigeyS> is the good old british april weather going to co-operate john?
[18:07] <jgrahamc> Dunno. The predictor sometimes tells me good things, and sometimes bad.
[18:08] <jgrahamc> We'll see, but I think it's worth getting a launch attempt scheduled even if it is scrubbed because of weather later in the week.
[18:08] <eroomde> doesn't tell you if it'll rain, annoyingly
[18:08] <NigeyS> dam!
[18:08] <jgrahamc> The forecast for next weekend is sunny
[18:08] <jgrahamc> But I don't have wind speeds...
[18:09] <NigeyS> sunny days .. clear nights .. might get the telescope out .. guaranteed it'll rain for a week then!
[18:09] <fsphil> I was thinking last night how neat it would be if there was a really good bright supernova -- but then I realised it would almost certainly be cloudy for those few weeks
[18:10] <jgrahamc> Well, if you believe http://uk.weather.com/weather/dailyDetails-Cambridge-UKXX0028?dayNum=9 we'll have winds of 14kph from ESE.
[18:10] <NigeyS> fsphil, you can almost bet your life on it! lol
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[18:12] <NigeyS> 14 .. thats not to bad and some sun !
[18:12] <jgrahamc> Let's see if it's true :-)
[18:13] <NigeyS> as there are launches coming up, i shall postpone any new purchases for the telescope !
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[18:14] Nick change: shuffty_ -> Shufffty
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[18:16] <NigeyS> hey Zuph , Shufffty
[18:16] <Zuph> Hola
[18:17] <NigeyS> hola! and how are you today sir ?
[18:17] <jgrahamc> OK, well I've added GAGA-1 to the upcoming launches age. Now to pray for good weather.
[18:17] <Zuph> Oh, frustrated with antennas
[18:17] <Shufffty> Hey NigeyS
[18:17] <Shufffty> Hey everyone..
[18:17] <Shufffty> :-)
[18:17] <Zuph> How are you this fine day, Mr. Nigel?
[18:17] <NigeyS> oh dear, im guessing antenna is slowly becoming a cringeworthy swearwordy word at LVL1?
[18:18] <NigeyS> I am fine, i think..
[18:18] <Zuph> heh
[18:18] <Zuph> We just need the right tools
[18:18] <NigeyS> have this nagging feeling i've forgotten to do something important today though :s
[18:18] <Zuph> If we had an antenna analyzer, I bet we could get it tuned up in a night.
[18:18] <Zuph> Uh oh
[18:19] <NigeyS> washing up .. check .. shopping .. check .. hoovering .. check .. hmz dunno hah! nm .. *sends brad an ant analyzer*
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[18:20] <fsphil> you won't radiate much from an ant
[18:20] <Zuph> hah
[18:20] <Zuph> Depends on the frequency :-p
[18:20] <NigeyS> lol phil! ya never know, ants can get pretty big!
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[18:21] <NigeyS> 434 antihertz ! *gets coast*
[18:21] <NigeyS> coat*
[18:22] <NigeyS> fsphil, this eagle really isnt doing much ya know
[18:22] <fsphil> nope lol
[18:22] <fsphil> well, it's incubating. that's an important job :)
[18:22] <NigeyS> take the egg and chuck it in an incubator?
[18:23] <fsphil> hehe, don't think it would like that
[18:23] <NigeyS> true, wonder how intrusive that camera is though, it must be well out of the way of the bird ?
[18:24] <fsphil> it looks to be yea, it has a pretty powerful zoom
[18:24] <NigeyS> ahh good
[18:26] <jackwardell> Hey guys, I'm new and I was wondering if I could have a little help. I'm only 16, but I want to embark on my first scientific adventure with a High-Altitude Balloon. I was considering buying the Lassen IQ, but I wouldn't know how to use it? Would I attack it to a microprocessor or something, does it need an antenna, etc... Basically what would I do with it, and what else would I need to buy?
[18:28] <fsphil> yea you'll most likely need a microprocessor of some sort
[18:30] <fsphil> jcoxon wrote up quite a bit when he was building picoatlas: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasi
[18:30] <jackwardell> Let's be honest, I'm no pro, would you recommend I wait, do it later in life? Buy an expensive, pre-programmed GPS system? Or take a jump in the deep-end and have some fun with the Lassen?
[18:30] <fsphil> oh deep-end definitely :p
[18:30] <Zuph> jackwardell: The Arduino is a great introduction to Microcontrollers if you don't have any experience and are seriously interested. Huge body of knowledge is just a google away.
[18:30] <jgrahamc_> I think it's really worth trying jackwardell
[18:31] <jgrahamc_> It might take you a long time if you are inexperienced but you will learn a lot.
[18:31] <jgrahamc_> Even if you were to fail you would learn a lot. I'd say do it.
[18:31] <jgrahamc_> You might want to look at other modules than the Lassen IQ. As fsphil said jcoxon's write ups are very helpful.
[18:32] <Dan-K2VOL> jackwardell definitely try it out. The people here are very helpful when it comes to ballooning issues, and there's tons of general arduino programming tutorials, examples, and references online
[18:32] <Shufffty> Deep end... I'm already in, and the water is fine... :-S
[18:33] <jackwardell> I'll give it a go, I will probably fail. I will look around, read up. We'll see what happens, would a SDR be better?
[18:33] <Dan-K2VOL> However jackwardell, please buddy up with an experienced balloonist to make sure you are abiding by the laws and safe methods of doing things
[18:33] <imrcly> http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/classichoppingtoitp1.gif
[18:34] <Dan-K2VOL> what country are you in jackwardell
[18:34] <jgrahamc_> Yes, that's good advice. I'm just 43 and I'm buddying with the guys in Cambridge to make sure I don't screw it up :-)
[18:34] <jackwardell> Good point, if when launching, do I call CAA? Or my local airport?
[18:34] <jackwardell> Oxford, UK.
[18:35] <jgrahamc_> The beginners guide answers lots of the basic questions: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> for the first time doing that I would suggest you see if one of the other local balloonists do it for you while you listen to how it's done, that's how I started, and it was easy and low-stress
[18:35] <Dan-K2VOL> (making the telephone calls I mean)
[18:36] <jgrahamc_> Also I'd suggest hanging out here as much as possible. You'll learn a lot and can ask 'dumb' questions whenever you want. Earlier on today we were trying to fix someone's radio transmission problem. This is a very helpful group.
[18:36] <Dan-K2VOL> Bill Brown WB8ELK helped me get things figured out when starting the old UTARC program
[18:36] <Zuph> It's also a good place to vent your ballooning frustrations :-p
[18:36] <jgrahamc_> Actually, one of the most positive groups I've been involved in. Lots of good vibes (<-- is child of the 1960s).
[18:37] <Dan-K2VOL> this is a great place to come
[18:37] <Shufffty> Radio transmission problems = me :-)
[18:37] <jgrahamc_> Ah. Shufffty. Did you get it firgured out?
[18:38] <Shufffty> sort of - I'm quite sure it's something to do with the delay in the sketch...
[18:38] <jgrahamc_> A delay in rjharrison's code?
[18:38] <NigeyS> Zuph, antenna frustrations to! ;)
[18:39] <Zuph> heh
[18:39] <Zuph> We just need tools
[18:39] <NigeyS> althoughi hear hammers are good for that :p
[18:39] <Zuph> I'm halfway to buying an MFJ analyzer on my own :-p
[18:39] <NigeyS> not cheap kit i take it ?
[18:39] <Zuph> Our antenna problems have transformed Dan-K2VOL into a Were-Ham. He puts an antenna on his car every night, but it's gone by sunrise :-p
[18:39] <Shufffty> It certainly sounds better with a delay.. will post it now, so you can decide ...
[18:39] <Dan-K2VOL> haha
[18:40] <fsphil> lol
[18:40] <Zuph> I think the MFJ analyzer is in the $250 USD range
[18:40] <NigeyS> lolol
[18:40] <NigeyS> ouch
[18:40] <Zuph> A lot of money on a grad student budget :-p
[18:40] <NigeyS> alot of money even on a healthy wage!
[18:40] <Zuph> Aye
[18:41] <Zuph> Might help me figure out where I'm having trouble with my HF rig, too, though.
[18:41] <Zuph> (That's another can of worms)
[18:41] <NigeyS> oh eck, you're really having a hard time over there guys :(
[18:42] <Dan-K2VOL> ugh I can't believe this snack label's mixing of metric and imperial units - here's the exact words, "Fat content of regular potato chips is 10g per 1 oz. serving; fat content of these is 3g per 1oz serving. This package contains 7/8 oz."
[18:42] <NigeyS> wth
[18:42] <Zuph> So, as you can see jackwardell, we're all a little in the deep end :_p
[18:42] <Zuph> :-P
[18:42] <jackwardell> http://hollandshoogte.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/hohoho-i-schematic.jpg If I were to buy/run a set-up like that, would there need to code written for it?
[18:42] <Shufffty> http://gallery.me.com/chrisrustage#100009/IMG_3736
[18:43] <Zuph> I just wish we'd get it over with and metricify everything.
[18:43] <NigeyS> Zuph, ditch the antenna idea and tether it?
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> jackwardell: yes
[18:43] <Zuph> There we go,we'll run a 4000 mile cable behind our balloon.
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> jackwardell: It's just an arduino. It's a general purpose compute thingy
[18:43] <jgrahamc_> Shufffty: still sounds off. What did you change in the code?
[18:43] <NigeyS> hahaha you'd certainly get a record for that!
[18:43] <jgrahamc_> Also, brilliant speech synthesis at the end :-)
[18:44] <jgrahamc_> Perhaps you could past your code in a pastebin (NOT HERE!!!)
[18:45] <Shufffty> jgrahamc_ a delay - I though it might be something to do with the arduino spitting out the pulses to quickly...
[18:45] <Shufffty> lol
[18:45] <NigeyS> noo not here dans got his speech thngie on i think
[18:46] <Shufffty> http://pastebin.com/hW3XZHYR
[18:46] <jgrahamc_> You've taken rjharrison's AVR code and run it directly on the Aruidno?
[18:46] <Shufffty> yes
[18:48] <jgrahamc_> What is that callback function doing?
[18:49] <jackwardell> Apparently, after looking at the Arduino site, I'll need a board, if buying one do you go for the Mega, Uno, Duemilanove, Nano, or Diecimila?
[18:49] <Shufffty> is it checking if pin 9 is high?
[18:49] <Shufffty> get an uno..
[18:49] Action: Laurenceb has an Xscale
[18:50] <Zuph> jackwardell: The Uno is the standard. You can save some coin and get a clone Arduino which should be functionally identical.
[18:50] <Zuph> Not sure about UK suppliers, though.
[18:50] <jgrahamc_> I don't see why that's there. Do you mind commenting out that line inside it and trying again?
[18:50] <NigeyS> earthshine or coolcomponents should have the uno
[18:51] <jackwardell> difference between uno and mega
[18:51] <jackwardell> ?
[18:51] <Shufffty> I bought mine from coolcomponents - super quick shipping (next day)
[18:52] <NigeyS> mega has more uarts, and alot more digital pins .. also twice the price, i'd go with the uno tbh
[18:52] <Shufffty> ?20
[18:52] <Shufffty> :-)
[18:52] <jgrahamc_> That callback function looks super suspicious to me Shufffty. Comment out the inside of it and see what happens.
[18:53] <jgrahamc_> It's inverting pin 9 whenever it is called
[18:53] <jgrahamc_> Could be that someone is calling it totally messing up your RTTY. Where did you get that code from?
[18:56] <Shufffty> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php/ideas:notes
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[19:02] <jgrahamc_> I'm guessing there's an interrupt calling it (perhaps from a timer).
[19:02] <fsphil> lol: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10622
[19:02] <Laurenceb> http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/04/01/april_fools_2.jpg
[19:03] <Shufffty> Does anybody have a working example I could test - I'm not sure if its the code, the ft790r, the ntx2, or just me being thick!
[19:04] <NigeyS> fsphil, if he comments out the en stuff will my picochu code work for him ?
[19:05] <jgrahamc_> Seriously Shufffty, comment out that line of code so there's nothing inside the callback and I'll bet you 1m3 of helium it'll work :-)
[19:05] <NigeyS> haha never seen a He bet before, good one John :p
[19:05] <fsphil> possibly - depends how it's wired up
[19:06] <Shufffty> I've commented it out... and switched it back to the original delayMicroseconds(BAUD_RATE); without my delay(50); and it sounds the same...
[19:06] <jackwardell> http://www.earthshineelectronics.com/99-arduinouno.html vs. http://www.earthshineelectronics.com/arduino-compatible-products/91-basic-arduino-compatible-starter-kit.html
[19:07] <Shufffty> If you dont have anything to fiddle with, get the starter kit..
[19:08] <NigeyS> jackwardell, id go with the starter kit
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[19:08] <imrcly> yay i have a baggy full of mosfets
[19:09] Action: NigeyS pinches them
[19:09] <NigeyS> HAD! :P
[19:09] <imrcly> :'(
[19:09] <jackwardell> http://goo.gl/yOaxW (cool compeant str.kit) or http://goo.gl/44rj3 (earthshine start kit)
[19:09] <NigeyS> aww okok have them back :D
[19:11] <imrcly> awesome found a place to order el wire by the spool
[19:12] <Dan-K2VOL> nice
[19:12] <imrcly> i can only assume it is expensive
[19:12] <imrcly> you have to request a qoute
[19:13] <NigeyS> eep that normally tells me i cant afford something
[19:13] <imrcly> probably around $1300 US a spool
[19:14] <NigeyS> see.. definately cant afford it .. lol
[19:14] <imrcly> me either
[19:15] <imrcly> i will stick to the 1-5 meter stuff
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[19:17] <SpeedEvil> imrcly: Damn, that would be awesome.
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> imrcly: Though to light a whole spool would be tricky. You're probably going to use 100m or so segments.
[19:17] <imrcly> spool is 250 meters
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> imrcly: And avoiding it tangling on launch may be tricky.
[19:18] <imrcly> http://www.coolneon.com/
[19:18] <imrcly> i want to light my house with it
[19:19] <imrcly> omnidirectional lighting
[19:19] <NigeyS> ooo
[19:19] <imrcly> way to expensive though
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> LEDs are actually getting to the point they are almost affordable.
[19:20] <Zuph> Heh, I just got back some PCBs for some undercabinet lighting. 4W worth of LEDs are only $10 on digikey these days.
[19:20] <Laurenceb> still hard getting enough light from leds
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+MPL
[19:20] <Laurenceb> without a ton of fittings
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> ~100W equivalent.
[19:21] <Zuph> I might have overdone the thermal dissipation, though. I think I'm going to do a hotplate pre-heat on the next one I solder...
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> @~10W.
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> 18 quid, true.
[19:21] <imrcly> Zuph: why not just do a hotplate reflow?
[19:22] <Laurenceb> hmm if true thats awesome
[19:22] Action: Laurenceb needs some GU10 replacements
[19:22] <Laurenceb> can only find 15W CFLs
[19:22] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: my new room is all LEDs
[19:22] <Randomskk> four bulbs in a ceiling fitting
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> But even if they are 36 quid (as a fitted unit) - and 12W power in, that's still not that long break-even.
[19:22] <Randomskk> it's very nice
[19:22] <SpeedEvil> (compared to CFL even)
[19:22] <Randomskk> and they use so little energy
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> Randomskk: how many lumens/watt?
[19:23] <Randomskk> plus my new shower light is a blue LED which is kinda cool, and then I'm gonna get some of those remote controlled LEDs for ambient lighting when the main lights are off.
[19:23] <Randomskk> SpeedEvil: I don't have the packaing around actually, so I'm unsure.. hm
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> The real energy saving would be smart lighting.
[19:23] <Randomskk> I'll report back
[19:23] <Randomskk> yea, I want that but no :(
[19:23] <SpeedEvil> That actually goes on/off at the right times, combined with spot lighting.
[19:23] <Randomskk> my room just got redone (or at least, is in the progress of doing so)
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[19:24] <SpeedEvil> I'm currently on an energy-saving kick.
[19:24] <Laurenceb> i spent ages trying to come up with a solution for low ceilings
[19:24] <Randomskk> so I get cat6 to my room from the router (yay) and loads of power sockets (yay) and an ensuite with a blue LED on the shower and more LEDs for the rest of the lighting
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> I'm averaging 5KWh/day.
[19:24] <Laurenceb> ended up with some 15W CFL GU10
[19:24] <Randomskk> but no motion sensing for the LEDs
[19:24] <Laurenceb> they dont last brilliently due to the heat
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: teeny spotlights, illuminating sideways the ceiling from the bottom of the beams?
[19:24] <Laurenceb> maybe
[19:24] <Laurenceb> its low ceilings
[19:25] <Zuph> imrcly: I'm afraid of melting the LED plastic. Want to minimize heat as much as possible
[19:25] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/qjh6w.jpg
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+MTG - is positioned for replacing MR16s
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Using _much_ lower power, and outputting the same light.
[19:26] <imrcly> who lives in the cupboard under the stairs
[19:26] <Laurenceb> lol
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[19:27] <Laurenceb> the freezer
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[19:27] <SpeedEvil> I have no stairs.
[19:27] <Laurenceb> the main beams stick down more than the lights now, so arguably they arent in the way of heads
[19:28] <Laurenceb> - the ligh fittings
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> I'd be wondering about a spot, mounted on top of the cooker.
[19:28] Action: Laurenceb is very proud of his hand assembled stairs
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[19:30] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/i2IVx.jpg
[19:30] Action: SpeedEvil is about to start - with brother - gutting half the house.
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> Nice.
[19:30] <Laurenceb> it was tricky getting tough enough vanish
[19:30] <NigeyS> oo their nice laurence
[19:31] <imrcly> i can imagine
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> I've decided that in the end, fiddling around with the existing partition walls and stuff is actually going to take more time, and have less issues with the finished product than ripping the whole lot out.
[19:32] <SpeedEvil> I haven't considered if I'm willing to go to the extent of cleaning my attic, removing the floorboards and insulation,and getting more free insulation to top it up. :)
[19:32] <Laurenceb> the brick pillar has a steel beam up the middle and takes the origional back wall of the house
[19:32] <Laurenceb> partition walls are fast to build
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[19:33] <Laurenceb> i spent easily as long on the decorating and joinery
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> Plus, I can insulate a couple.
[19:33] <Laurenceb> doors etc are a complete pita
[19:33] <Laurenceb> they are never the right size
[19:33] <Laurenceb> even if you have a standard doorway the tolerances are piss poor or the wood is warped etc
[19:33] <SpeedEvil> I want to be able to segment the house thermally, as I may not be using all the space. Hence heating only half...
[19:34] <Laurenceb> interesting idea
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> Fortunately, this is only one small wall/door.
[19:35] <Laurenceb> pastering takes a lot of time, that was the only bit i didnt do, but in hindsight the plasterer screwed up
[19:35] <Laurenceb> i had to replaster the lhs of the stairs myself
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> I may not - at least initially - be finishing it all the way.
[19:36] <Laurenceb> and theres loads of cracks and blemishes where he didnt use jointing compount correctly and i used unplated screws
[19:36] <SpeedEvil> As I'm DIYing it, and I want to get the shell insulated and tight before the cold weather hits again.
[19:37] <Laurenceb> they rusts under the plaster a pop little bits off
[19:37] <Laurenceb> *rust
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> Eww.
[19:37] <Laurenceb> i had to dig them all out, replace and polyfiller
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> This power meter is awesome.
[19:38] <Laurenceb> also the plasterer though you could use jointing tape without the compound - that doesnt work
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> 'Hmm - why is it sitting at 250W baseline not 150W' ->doh ->switch off pond-pump.
[19:38] <Laurenceb> from eon?
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:39] <Laurenceb> ah is it ethernet enabled?
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> Naah. It's got a RS232 port, and spits out a string every 5s.
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> This comes with a pl2303 dongle.
[19:39] <Laurenceb> oh.. how are you supposed to use it
[19:39] <Laurenceb> ah i see
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> And I'm just jamming that into gnuplot.
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> There is 'nice' software.
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[19:40] <SpeedEvil> But I coulnd't be arsed getting thedependancies working.
[19:40] <Laurenceb> interesting - ill try and get some
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> http://www.jibble.org/currentcost/
[19:40] <SpeedEvil> Oh - this toolchain looks easier.
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> There is a minor issue in that it seems to sample every 5s, not average.
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> Amusingly, I got my meter on the same day I got my 'we're sorry you decided to leave us' letter.
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Current-Cost-Development-Board-Pack-3-/180548999321?pt=UK_AudioElectronicsVideo_Video_TelevisionSetTopBoxes&hash=item2a098f1899 Wackily - this is the actual vendor.
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> I've no idea what these are for.
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[19:47] <natrium42> SpeedEvil: that's what she said
[19:47] <Laurenceb> those look suspiciously like si4432 modules
[19:49] <jgrahamc_> Very odd Shufffty.
[19:49] <jgrahamc_> Would you mind sharing all the code you are running to see if I can spot anything odd?
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Well - it is 433, I suppose.
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: and maybe bidirectional.
[19:50] <Laurenceb> i guess theres lots of similar stuff, but those modules do look very similar
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> I should probably ask a question if they've got a datasheet for it.
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> As a fiver is not an unreasonable amount to pay for a wireless device that can connect to my PC over the existing net.
[19:54] <Laurenceb> cheaper than sparkfun si4432 modules if thats what it is
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[20:00] <chembrow> evening
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[20:01] <NigeyS> evening chembrow
[20:03] <natrium42> Laurenceb: are you at cambridge?
[20:05] <Laurenceb> no
[20:05] <Laurenceb> lots of people here are :P
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[20:21] <jackwardell> So what would be a good GPS module to attact to a Arduino? Lassen? I want something on the easier side... Any of these? http://www.dpieshop.com/gps-modulesreceivers-position-c-26_73.html
[20:21] <jackwardell> attach*
[20:21] <eroomde> jackwardell: they're all about has easy (or hard!) as each other
[20:22] <eroomde> but the lassen iQ is very easy, yes
[20:23] <jackwardell> the iQ is £23, are the cheaper ones similar in quality, or is the iQ a solid choice
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[20:24] <Zuph> jackwardell: Yeah, if it outputs NMEA strings, they're all about as easy or hard as eachother. Some have specific antenna requirements, etc. Mostly, be sure that the GPS you pick will output valid data above a 18km
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[20:24] <Zuph> eroomde: Long time no see
[20:25] <jackwardell> How do I communicate with my GPS module in the balloon, via SMS?
[20:26] <imrcly> yeah, it is most common to use HF radio
[20:27] <chembrow> SMS won't work above a couple of km tops
[20:27] <imrcly> f he logs he can use it on recovery
[20:28] <eroomde> Zuph: yo
[20:28] <chembrow> true, but it's probably better as a backup
[20:28] <Zuph> imrcly: VHF radio is most common
[20:29] <eroomde> UHF in the UK
[20:29] <Zuph> jackwardell: Read here under "Radio" http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[20:29] <Zuph> VHF, UHF, po-ta-toe, po-tah-toe.
[20:30] <imrcly> they all have HF
[20:30] <Zuph> imrcly: Who all has HF?
[20:30] <imrcly> VHF and UHF
[20:30] <Zuph> hah
[20:30] <eroomde> *hf
[20:30] <Zuph> Fair enough: Most balloons communicate on a frequency somewhere between 1 MHz and Infinity MHz.
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[20:32] <Zuph> jackwardell: The Radiometrix module listed there can be fairly easily hooked up to an Arduino to output RTTY Data. Google around for more info on RTTY. It can easily be picked up by amateur radios. Format your data correctly, and listeners around the UK can track your balloon, and upload the output data to the SpaceNear.us tracker using DL-FLDIGI.
[20:33] <Zuph> eroomde: How've things been on your end?
[20:37] <eroomde> Zuph: very good thanks. i've been in switzerland looking at avalanches with our robotic airship
[20:38] <eroomde> (blimp vid for a reference point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K29dn0Mzspk )
[20:38] <eroomde> we've started going through the data, doing 3D reconstruction from its onboard optical and thermal cameras
[20:40] <chembrow> great. now I've got something else that I want to make :p
[20:40] <imrcly> we can do that to transport our rover
[20:40] <imrcly> it would be AWESOME!
[20:41] <Zuph> eroomde: Very cool!
[20:43] <eroomde> it was good fun! long days though - we had to be off my 11am each day ask the avalanche risk got too high, so there were very early starts to prep, treck out, fly for an hour or so, pack up, and start treking down again
[20:43] <eroomde> but the weather was very kind to us
[20:43] <eroomde> so it was really lovely up there
[20:44] <imrcly> that emergency landing was cool
[20:44] <eroomde> mmm... a little hairy
[20:45] <eroomde> if i were to let it not point into the wind (which is an unstable solution to the differential equation) i'd not be able to get it back round again (as no motors) so it would go wondering along the mountainside and into the forest area
[20:46] <eroomde> which would have made it an expensive day
[20:46] <imrcly> i can imagine
[20:50] <Randomskk> eroomde: hah, that's pretty cool
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[20:50] <MrCraig> a late evening all
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[20:57] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: What is its cruising speed?
[20:59] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: max 70km/h when we tested it
[20:59] <eroomde> but you get about 13 seconds endurance
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:59] <eroomde> we usually keep it about 10
[20:59] <SpeedEvil> That's with the steam-valve tied down?
[21:00] <eroomde> the motors are each 1.6kW
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> Fun.
[21:00] <eroomde> infact the emergency landing video was caused by a batt fail which was the flight when i tried to see what it could do
[21:00] <eroomde> tried to loop it
[21:00] <eroomde> so there was quite a lot of full throttle
[21:00] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:01] <SpeedEvil> Were you the emergency landing gear?
[21:01] <eroomde> no, that was neill
[21:01] <eroomde> hence 'Neill, run!'
[21:02] <eroomde> i was the pilot
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Looks like great fun.
[21:02] <SpeedEvil> Good data?
[21:02] <eroomde> looks like it so far
[21:02] <eroomde> the calibration of the imu was a bit sqiffy but you can do a kind of circular inference from imu to video camera and back
[21:03] <eroomde> so it's seemed to auto-calibrate itself in the optimisation on the reconstruction automagically
[21:03] <eroomde> there really should be a good open source IMU
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> Yup.
[21:03] <eroomde> there's definitely a gap in the market there
[21:04] <eroomde> these silly little orange boxes that don't let you know what's going on inside are no use to anyone
[21:04] <SpeedEvil> The people with the skills don't have the good sensors, and the people with the good sensors don't have the time or inclination.
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[21:05] <eroomde> yup
[21:05] <Laurenceb> hopefully my board will be ready
[21:05] <Laurenceb> at some point
[21:05] <Dan-K2VOL> happy weekend!
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> The better sensors are coming down enormously in price though.
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: hopefully.
[21:06] <eroomde> they're just some AD gyros and accels in a box too. can't see what $4800 of the $5000 they charge goes towards
[21:06] <Laurenceb> ive been talking to the guys on #openpilot
[21:06] <Dan-K2VOL> off to a nap then white star, ttyl all
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[21:06] <Laurenceb> they have some nice code i might partially nick
[21:07] <Laurenceb> ive got access to a nice IR reflow station at work now, so ill get some stencils from smdstencils.co.uk next week
[21:07] <Laurenceb> hoefully it should finally start taking shape in a week or two
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> smtstencil.co.uk?
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> shrdlu over in ##electronics
[21:09] <Laurenceb> http://www.smtstencil.co.uk/
[21:09] <Laurenceb> thats shrdlu?
[21:09] <Laurenceb> very cheap :P
[21:09] <Laurenceb> i dont have enough to fill up all that area
[21:10] <Laurenceb> if i get my Xscale project finished next week ill make a start on autopilot boards - power supplies first
[21:10] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:10] <MrCraig> Where can I find more information about the skypod launch on monday?
[21:11] <Laurenceb> Xscale project = hacked firmware on a http://www.monicahealthcare.com/products/monicaan24.php
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[21:12] <SpeedEvil> Don't you have to sign things saying 'we won't do that' when you buy that sort of kit?
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> A lot of fourier I guess?
[21:13] <Laurenceb> well they were supposed to be helping with my work
[21:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[21:14] <Laurenceb> but for one reason or another they wont give me the pcb info
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> It seems like a completely boring thing from the PCB POV.
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> I can't imagine anything clever is in it.
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> What have you done to it?
[21:14] <Laurenceb> so im having to reverse engineer the schematics and hack together some custom firmware for using it as a medical datalogger
[21:15] <Laurenceb> its being used by another university spin out to launch their product line, all a bit complex
[21:15] <Laurenceb> lots of politics :P
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> Neat - picking up fetal ECG!
[21:16] <Laurenceb> im desoldering all the analogue so its just a datalogger
[21:16] <Laurenceb> Xscale + bluetooth + microSD
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:16] <Laurenceb> its quite boring, but Xscale is ... interesting
[21:16] <Laurenceb> its quite simple, and not to hard to code for, but BGA with external BGA flash
[21:17] <Laurenceb> so hardly hobbyist friendly
[21:18] <Laurenceb> also has a maxim power management ic - overall maybe 20cm^2 of 8 layer board just to interface the processor
[21:19] <Laurenceb> hard to see why you would _choose_ to use one
[21:19] <fsphil> MrCraig, http://personal.strath.ac.uk/james.tosh/
[21:20] <Laurenceb> this made me laugh http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/01/silicon_roundabout_the_register_guide/
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Because you used one in your last product when there were lots fewer chips around, and you can just...
[21:20] <MrCraig> thanks fsphil
[21:20] <Laurenceb> the design was from 2003, so...
[21:21] <Zuph> Wrote my Masters Thesis around a project based on a Gumstix running an XScale. Glad I didn't have to design that hardware :-p
[21:24] <Laurenceb> the biggest fail is running a 3.3v rail off a single lipo cell
[21:25] <Laurenceb> with a large dropout voltage regulator
[21:25] <SpeedEvil> Yuk.
[21:25] <Laurenceb> so the cell can only discharge to 3.8V
[21:25] <Laurenceb> i think it was changed slightly on newer revisions, but its only using half the capacity
[21:28] <Laurenceb> also varta wouldnt sell me polyflex cells
[21:28] <Laurenceb> i need some of these - http://www.varta-microbattery.com/en/oempages/product_data/poductdata_types.php?output=typedata&segment=RechLiFlatPoly
[21:28] <Laurenceb> but they are unobtanium
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> Not bad energy density for small cells.
[21:33] <Laurenceb> yeah thats why im after some
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[21:35] <SpeedEvil> What are you trying to do?
[21:40] <Laurenceb> i need to swap like with like when it comes to the cells
[21:40] <Laurenceb> aiui for the CE certificate needs redoing
[21:40] <Laurenceb> *or
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> This is for the above product?
[21:42] <Laurenceb> yeah
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> Also - ripping out large amounts of circuitry means it needs redoing too. Or are you ignoring that bit. :)
[21:42] <Laurenceb> the 2004 cells have virtually no capacity now
[21:42] <Laurenceb> yes :P
[21:42] <SpeedEvil> Are these being sold, or just used in-house?
[21:43] <Laurenceb> in-house, lipos can blow up and burn poeple
[21:43] <Laurenceb> thats the issue
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> you get prismatic LiFePO4
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> http://www.a123systems.com/products-cells-prismatic-pouch-cell.htm
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Though maybe a tad large
[21:44] <Laurenceb> heh
[21:44] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[21:57] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ever played with zen kernel?
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[21:58] <SpeedEvil> nope.
[21:59] <Laurenceb> looks like i need it to get the fan working on my 'thinkpad'
[22:00] <Laurenceb> ie lenovo pretend thinkpad
[22:01] <Laurenceb> Lenovo ThinkPad SL
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[22:04] <Shufffty> Sorry to jump in again with yet another question, but could one of you have a shuffty at this and tell me what I'm doing wrong... dl-fldigi is outputting garbage.
[22:04] <Shufffty> http://gallery.me.com/chrisrustage#100009/ScreenGrab001
[22:06] <LazyLeopard> Doesn't look like a RTTY signal...
[22:06] <fsphil> yea -- only one line
[22:07] <fsphil> you may have too many resistors on there :)
[22:09] <LazyLeopard> There're examples of (almost) all sorts of signals here: http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/radio-sounds.html
[22:09] <Shufffty> ok, will have another play
[22:10] <Shufffty> Thanks LazyLeopard.. will have a shuffty
[22:10] <LazyLeopard> ...the handy bit being what they look like on waterfalls...
[22:11] <LazyLeopard> There are other similar pages, including in the fldigi help site: http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.20/Modes/index.htm
[22:20] <Blackover> Has anyone deal with trackuino?
[22:21] <Blackover> http://trackuino.blogspot.com/
[22:22] <Blackover> or evebody start listen to sound samples?
[22:25] <Shufffty> Can you confirm that the 425 shift is the gap between the two frequencies - which is generated by applying different voltage to the tx pin on the NTX2?
[22:26] <LazyLeopard> Yes, "shift" is the gap between the two frequencies...
[22:26] <Shufffty> Thanks for that! :-)
[22:27] <NigeyS> Shufffty, it almost looks as if only 1 channel is getting to fldigi from your sound card
[22:27] <Shufffty> Hmmmm!! Maybee that the case!
[22:27] <Shufffty> Good call. Will investigate!
[22:27] <Shufffty> lol
[22:27] <Shufffty> Feck me - I might as well plan to finish this project sometime in 2013!
[22:28] <NigeyS> hehe stick with it, its a learning process, takes time :)
[22:28] <Shufffty> :-) I'm loving it really.... I actually have a reason to fiddle with wires...
[22:28] <LazyLeopard> In your screenshot you had shift set to 200 and "receive filter bandwidth" to 75. the red lines are 200 Hz apart, and the red bars at the top of each line are 75Hz wide.
[22:34] <LazyLeopard> Blackover: Looks like a neat APRS tracker, but I don't think we could fly it legally in the UK.
[22:34] <Blackover> cause frec?
[22:35] <Blackover> frecency
[22:36] <Blackover> LazyLeopard Why?
[22:36] <LazyLeopard> Amateur licence conditions prohibit transmitting from an aircraft (and balloons are included) so instead we use a licence-exempt frequency in the 70cms band.
[22:37] <stilldavid> Hm, thinking about a launch tomorrow morning
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[22:37] <stilldavid> gotta put a payload together, though :)
[22:37] <LazyLeopard> ...but that means we have to do our own thing regarding tracking.
[22:37] <NigeyS> hop to it :p
[22:38] <fsphil> ah, some duct tape and a few wires. you'll be fine
[22:38] <LazyLeopard> stilldavid: From where?
[22:38] <stilldavid> kinda what I'm thinking, yeah, fsphil
[22:38] <stilldavid> Windsor, CO, USA
[22:38] <stilldavid> I just put the flight computer (back) together and it's humming along beautifully right now
[22:38] <Blackover> LazyLeopard: 2m isn't licence-exempt?
[22:38] <LazyLeopard> Ah. A little beyond tracking ffom this side of the ocean, then. ;)
[22:38] <stilldavid> yeah, unfortunately.
[22:39] <stilldavid> might shoot an email to the GPSL list and see if there's any interest
[22:39] <stilldavid> the bummer of it all is that there's no cellular service out in that area
[22:40] <stilldavid> prediction looks good for 11am local time, 19:00 UTC
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[22:40] <LazyLeopard> 2m is primary amateur licence allocation.
[22:40] <LazyLeopard> ...but folks in North America have flown APRS trackers.
[22:42] <LazyLeopard> The UK amateur licence is a bit more restrictive than some.
[22:43] <fsphil> what are you going to be flying stilldavid?
[22:45] <stilldavid> 1200 gram latex
[22:45] <stilldavid> downlink w/ntx2 as per usual
[22:46] <stilldavid> if I can cobble it all together tonight. The electronics are done, but I need a payload box.
[22:46] <stilldavid> so the whole "duct tape and foam" isn't that far off...
[22:46] <stilldavid> in fact, I'm off to the hardware store :)
[22:46] <stilldavid> back in an hour or two
[22:47] <NigeyS> haha have fun dude
[22:48] <stilldavid> that's why we do it :)
[22:48] <NigeyS> yush!
[22:49] <MrCraig> I have a friend who's licensed with a yacht - I may attempt an at sea launch when I've had some time and experience. I don't remember who it was but someone here suggested international waters at one time to get around certain restrictions, and the idea never truly went away.
[22:49] <MrCraig> he doesn't own a yacht though, would have to charter one - but it's not so pricey for short term.
[22:50] <fsphil> which restrictions?
[22:50] <fsphil> actually that'd be pretty cool, but recovery would be a pain
[22:50] <MrCraig> most specifically requiring a parachute descent
[22:50] <Randomskk> fsphil: recovery'd be fine
[22:50] <Randomskk> you'd have line of sight to the horizon :P
[22:50] <Randomskk> just waterproof the box, make it float
[22:50] <fsphil> true -- and if it floats
[22:50] <MrCraig> ahh - that's the very reason for the attempt. GPS guided rigid winged glider is the idea
[22:51] <fsphil> aaah a glider
[22:51] <MrCraig> fiber glass and lots of gass
[22:52] <fsphil> suppose the other advantage is chasing -- no roads! just follow it exactly
[22:53] <fsphil> bonus points if you land it in the boat
[22:53] <MrCraig> The idea would be, that the glider should ascend, likely on two large balloons - when either bursts it would cause break away of both. Then using the gps data it'd adjust ailerons during decent and aim for where it was launched. I think there would be some chasing involved of course because the GPS data doesn't come in quite fast enough for an accurate system, but within a few miles would be a bonus.
[22:54] <NigeyS> wouldnt ailerons only be effective after X height due to lack of air resistance ?
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[22:56] <MrCraig> NigeyS: I expect them to be much less effective in thinner atmosphere yes. I've not tried to do the physics involved yet, nor am I qualified to - but will try it at some point.
[22:56] <MrCraig> My biggest hope is for a more recoverable and potentially reusable 'craft'
[22:56] <NigeyS> good luck! i remember it being discussed a wile back and air resistance stuck in my head
[22:57] <MrCraig> Thanks :-) I have very high ambitions. I'll aim for a successful telemetry mission first :)
[23:00] <fsphil> I see what you did there
[23:00] <MrCraig> oh?
[23:00] <fsphil> liking that
[23:00] <Blackover> Is getting primary amateur license complex?
[23:00] <fsphil> high ambitions :)
[23:00] <NigeyS> haha
[23:00] <Shufffty> Another daft quesiton for you... if I want 27k resistor - could I in theory run one 22k and 5x 1k?
[23:00] <MrCraig> lol - I'd not done it, it's your mind that deserves the credit there fsphil
[23:00] <fsphil> Shufffty, yea - in series (end to end)
[23:00] <Shufffty> I know I must sound stupid... I'm shall bow my head in shame..
[23:00] <Shufffty> :-)
[23:00] <Shufffty> Thanks fsphil
[23:01] <fsphil> any luck reducing the shift?
[23:01] <Randomskk> Blackover: no
[23:01] <Blackover> how long?
[23:01] <Randomskk> I did it in maybe two days of reading the book, an evening of the practicals and sat the exam in half an hour or so
[23:01] <NigeyS> 27k .. hmm ive never used higher than a 22k and couple of 2k2's on my ntx2's
[23:01] <Blackover> in Russia u have to pass Morse exam and it takes about 4 month
[23:02] <fsphil> yar
[23:02] <Randomskk> same again for the intermediate, and the same but without the practicals for the full
[23:02] <Randomskk> yea, in the UK we don't have a morse exam
[23:02] <fsphil> though I've noticed everything here seems to need a different set of resistors
[23:02] <Shufffty> non - I'm going to have another shot at the breadboard to see what I can do. I've currently got it setup with 2x 2k2, 1x 22k for pin 9 & 22k for pin 10..
[23:02] <fsphil> everyone*
[23:02] <fsphil> did you upload your test code anywhere?
[23:02] <Shufffty> I'm looking at this http://alienproject.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/radiometrix-circuit-diagram.png
[23:03] <NigeyS> yeah i think its totally dependant on the test setup, even the breadboads will make a difference if not exactly the same
[23:03] <NigeyS> yeah he's using it phil
[23:03] <Blackover> Randomskk What exam about?
[23:03] <fsphil> ah - that's one of the more complex circuits
[23:03] <Randomskk> radio stuff basically
[23:03] <Blackover> How resister looks like?
[23:04] <MrCraig> NigeyS: I used a 48k on mine
[23:04] <NigeyS> blimey
[23:04] <NigeyS> and it worked?
[23:05] <MrCraig> A slightly different arrangement than most use (excuse poor diagram done in ms-paint): http://www.craigchapman.me.uk/craig/files/ntx2diagram.png it works yeah.
[23:05] <MrCraig> my vcc is at 6v
[23:06] <NigeyS> ahh that explains it
[23:06] <MrCraig> battery life seems good too, I'd expected a reduction because of drowning the potential - but a single set of cells has lasted 6/7 hours at a time and I replaced them not because they were drained but because I wanted to test on fresh each time.
[23:06] <MrCraig> This configuration lets me drive from a single pin too, rather than a mark and space pin setup
[23:07] <fsphil> handier that
[23:07] <NigeyS> got ya
[23:07] <MrCraig> it is when you're working with pic's and might want to add sensors some day hehe - but it can keep the hardware costs down too
[23:07] <fsphil> simplifies the program a bit too
[23:07] <MrCraig> *nods it does that
[23:08] <fsphil> lots of resistance on the PIC pin, what's the shift again?
[23:09] <MrCraig> The shift possibly isn't as precise as it should be, the resistors were more a choice of immediately available than design.
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[23:09] <MrCraig> 130Hz
[23:09] <MrCraig> pic pin drives at 4.98v
[23:10] <NigeyS> phil, has mike said anymore about those ublox 4 modules ?
[23:10] <fsphil> I've no idea how mine works to be honest
[23:10] <fsphil> not a peep NigeyS
[23:10] <MrCraig> I don't really understand how mine works either lol
[23:10] <NigeyS> hmm i was up for trying 1 of those
[23:10] <fsphil> I was considering getting some, but they're a bit on the big side
[23:11] <NigeyS> yeah they def not a space saver
[23:11] <fsphil> I'm guessing one resistor to 5v forms a divider with the 100k resistor in the TX pin
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[23:11] <NigeyS> werent they 10cm by 6 or something daft like that ?
[23:11] <NigeyS> evening matt
[23:11] <fsphil> and another high resistance resistor to the microcontroller pin adjusts it
[23:12] <fsphil> yea they where mighty big compared to all the others
[23:12] <fsphil> still light though
[23:12] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[23:12] <MrCraig> Hi mattltm
[23:12] <fsphil> I've still got a couple of fsa03's to get through before I try another :)
[23:12] <NigeyS> yeah, the pcb had lots of empty space to .. kinda weird but hmm..
[23:12] <fsphil> morning mattltm
[23:12] <NigeyS> you love ure fsa's :p
[23:12] <fsphil> meh
[23:12] <NigeyS> when they work!
[23:13] <fsphil> I'd ordered two more before I had the problem
[23:13] <NigeyS> about as much as i love my lassen tbh
[23:13] <fsphil> so now I've got two in a box, no idea if they work
[23:13] <MrCraig> ack - that wasn't supposed to be a private message fsphil sorry - lol
[23:13] <fsphil> np lol
[23:14] <fsphil> I do like them -- they're almost perfect little gps modules
[23:14] <fsphil> just need to be more reliable
[23:15] <NigeyS> yeah and a bit less fragile, which they can manage quite easily just by stiffening up the antennas
[23:15] <fsphil> maybe there'll be an fsa04
[23:16] <NigeyS> possibly, i know locosys are bringing some new atheros based units, similar to the ls20030's but work at > 18km
[23:18] <Shufffty> ok, I have a waterfall with two signals - but they're too far apart...
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[23:18] <NigeyS> well 2 is a good start
[23:19] <mattltm> Anyone know where I can get a servo with 360 deg rotation that provides feedback?
[23:19] <NigeyS> edit the custom shift setting to find out what the shift is, then play with the resistor config untilll its something a bit more standard
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[23:20] <Shufffty> The shift is greater than dl-fldigi allows.. lol
[23:21] <fsphil> soo close then ! :)
[23:21] <fsphil> more resistance!
[23:22] <MrCraig> The glass is half full!
[23:23] <fsphil> the eagle is still there
[23:23] <MrCraig> Antenna arrived today btw fsphil - thanks for helping nudge me to buy it - I won't hold it against you personally if it sux. :-P
[23:23] <NigeyS> mattltm, http://www.robotbits.co.uk/motors-gearboxes/sm-s4303r-continuous-rotation-servo/prod_65.html
[23:23] <NigeyS> any good ?
[23:23] <fsphil> no worries :p
[23:24] <Shufffty> SUCCESS!!!
[23:24] <Shufffty> :-)
[23:24] <MrCraig> !!! WD
[23:24] <Shufffty> But it's a weird onre
[23:24] <mattltm> NigeyS: Looks good. Just wondering if it provides position feedback
[23:24] <W0OTM> woo hoo! my cutaway circuit works
[23:24] <Shufffty> one
[23:24] <fsphil> weird success is still good :)
[23:24] <NigeyS> ahh yeah it didnt say .. id guess prolly not :(
[23:25] <NigeyS> Shufffty, define weird ?
[23:25] <NigeyS> W0OTM, congrats!
[23:25] <Shufffty> by removing pin 11 - the waterfall dropped to a 350 shift and the dl-fldigi decoded to string I passed... now I'm confused!
[23:25] <W0OTM> bout damn time
[23:25] <MrCraig> Grats W0OTM
[23:25] <mattltm> I guess that I don't want a "continuous rotation" one.
[23:26] <W0OTM> been fighting the schematic for a week now
[23:26] <Shufffty> so tx is only getting one feed...
[23:26] <NigeyS> pin 11 was low or high ?
[23:26] <fsphil> yea - that'll only work if you're at one extreme end of the ntx2's range
[23:27] <fsphil> have you got a multi-meter? can you measure the resistance between each pin and the TX pin on the ntx2?
[23:28] <MrCraig> Question - should I be taking my hand held silly scope with me to the midlands (where I'll be until launch) hmmm
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[23:29] <MrCraig> It's only one more item in the bag, why not.
[23:29] <Shufffty> 27.3 vs 2.2 ..... i think i goofed!
[23:29] <Shufffty> was meant to be a 22, not a 2k2
[23:29] <fsphil> aaah
[23:29] <Shufffty> :-S
[23:29] <fsphil> easily done!
[23:29] <fsphil> just one colour code away
[23:30] <NigeyS> A supermarket has admitted it got a decimal point in the wrong place after queues formed at one of its petrol stations offering unleaded at 12.9p a litre.
[23:30] <Shufffty> I feel like I've won tonights battle....
[23:30] <NigeyS> hah!
[23:30] <Shufffty> :-D
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:30] <MrCraig> I know it's a trivial thing to argue over, but I noticed that the printing technology has gotten far better over the past decade - wouldn't it be easier to just print the resistor values on them now?
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> MrCraig: naah.
[23:30] <fsphil> absolutly
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> MrCraig: the last decade - through hole has been going away.
[23:31] <MrCraig> :-( that makes me sad
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> Also - printing on a round component has obvious issues
[23:31] <NigeyS> laser printing .. easy enough
[23:31] Action: SpeedEvil wants a wirebonder.
[23:32] <MrCraig> well I worked for a short while in a factory that built wiring harnesses - any they really had no issue printing on the side of a wire no more than 1-1.5mm
[23:32] <MrCraig> any=and*
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> I mean - reading has issues.
[23:32] <SpeedEvil> not printing.
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> you need at least three repeats of the value.
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> and then you have the issue of orientation.
[23:33] <MrCraig> fair point
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> and decimals are annoying
[23:34] <MrCraig> ok - I'll stick with colour codes. SpeedEvil convinces :)
[23:34] <MrCraig> but I wanna see them on capacitors too now - sorry guys.
[23:35] <fsphil> some of the colours are difficult to tell apart
[23:35] <Shufffty> What resistance differential should I be aiming for?
[23:35] <fsphil> choosing resistance seems to be a bit of voodoo I'm afraid - whatever gets you close to a standard shift
[23:36] <MrCraig> red and orange, black and brown - agreed fsphil. A friend showed me some of his ancient resistors last weekend, from the time when he built a Z80 from a hobby magazine - it wasn't always the case, they were far more distinct.
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> Carbon film tended to have cream cases.
[23:37] Jasperw (~jasperw@2001:470:92f1:0:223:5aff:fef5:cce) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out
[23:37] <SpeedEvil> This makes printing easier, compared to metal film, which is blue
[23:38] <MrCraig> is that the reason for the ancient ones being clearer SpeedEvil? I noticed the older ones appeared more mat and the newer ones glossy too - that had some effect.
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> Dunno
[23:38] <Shufffty> fsphil - so if running just pin 9 works - should I be happy to leave it as such, or attempt to make it work with two? What benefit is there to having more pins used on my arduino if it works without?
[23:38] <SpeedEvil> No reason not to use one pin.
[23:39] <SpeedEvil> IMO
[23:39] <Shufffty> Hmmm
[23:39] <MrCraig> I only use one
[23:39] <Shufffty> lol - I feel like I'm anout to cop out and settle for what is working rather than try to work through it... lol
[23:39] <Shufffty> Ah, now he tells me! :-)
[23:39] <NigeyS> if it aint broke......
[23:40] <MrCraig> I did post a link to my wiring a short while ago Shufffty, you're head was turned though :)
[23:40] <fsphil> Using two has been an odd tradition :)
[23:40] <Shufffty> lol
[23:40] <Shufffty> A hazing tradition for those like me that have never done it before fsphil...
[23:40] <Shufffty> lol
[23:41] <MrCraig> I think the use of two pins comes from reuse of arduino code and therefore using that layout that has worked before - I wasn't using an arduino and so programmed my pic on one pin before even thinking of the wiring to the ntx2.
[23:41] <fsphil> this is my setup: http://i.imgur.com/kleef.png
[23:41] <fsphil> but that's for 3.3v systems
[23:41] <fsphil> (ignore the PIC, it's actually an AVR)
[23:42] <MrCraig> Shufffty: http://www.craigchapman.me.uk/craig/files/ntx2diagram.png shows the aweful diagram once more (a lot of guess work and ms-painted) just in case it's useful. Trust fsphil a long time before looking at mine though
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[23:43] <fsphil> ooh I've just noticed my diagram is backwards
[23:44] <NigeyS> lol
[23:44] <MrCraig> lol
[23:44] <fsphil> it's 22k to the microcontroller pin
[23:44] <fsphil> 2.2k to the VCC
[23:45] <natrium42> o/
[23:45] <MrCraig> hey natrium42
[23:45] <fsphil> it's difficult to imagine what's going in, with so many different resistance values
[23:45] <fsphil> hullo natrium42
[23:46] <natrium42> yo fsphil, my main man
[23:46] <MrCraig> I=E/R
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[23:46] <NigeyS> naaaaaaaaaaatrium!
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> MrCraig: First - add all series resistors together for clarity IMO - that getsyou 540k
[23:47] <natrium42> NigeyS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[23:47] <NigeyS> hey ho dudey
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> The impedence of the voltage divider is about 8K.
[23:47] <fsphil> I'm hungry!!!!
[23:47] <NigeyS> cake!
[23:47] <fsphil> yea!
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> The swing with a ...
[23:47] Action: NigeyS has birthday cake left mmmm
[23:47] Action: SpeedEvil gets bored.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Night all.
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> Happy Birthday.
[23:47] <MrCraig> SpeedEvil: agree, I drew that diagram as a representation of exactly what I'd built on the breadboard - never intended to go showing it off, if I had, I'd have aggregated the resistors too.
[23:47] <NigeyS> lol nn speedy!
[23:47] <fsphil> night SpeedEvil !
[23:47] <natrium42> nite SpeedEvil
[23:48] <natrium42> who has a birthday?
[23:48] <SpeedEvil> (assuming you diddn't get a truly massive cake, and are strill eating it weeks later)
[23:48] <MrCraig> night SpeedEvil
[23:48] <NigeyS> natrium42, me, on the 25th :(
[23:48] <fsphil> what confuses me is there's a 100k resistor to ground inside the ntx2
[23:48] <MrCraig> Happy Birthday NigeyS for last week anyway. Mine next week :-(
[23:48] <NigeyS> thankoo..and oh dear..lol
[23:48] <fsphil> oooh pre-habby birthday !
[23:49] <natrium42> happy b-day, NigeyS
[23:49] <fsphil> happy* .. though that's appropriate too
[23:49] <MrCraig> lol the flight is two days after I become too old to be burning my fingers on soldering irons fsphil
[23:49] <NigeyS> thanks dude!
[23:49] <natrium42> how young did you get?
[23:49] <NigeyS> 32 :(
[23:49] <natrium42> omg, round number
[23:49] <fsphil> power of 2
[23:49] <natrium42> that's awesome
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[23:50] <natrium42> so, finally US is switching to metric!
[23:50] <NigeyS> haha but apparently, next year i start ageing backwards!
[23:50] <natrium42> about damn time
[23:50] <MrCraig> oooh tell that story natrium42?
[23:50] <fsphil> we use hexadecimal here NigeyS, you're only 20 :)
[23:50] <NigeyS> yes!!!!!
[23:50] <NigeyS> hang on who was i dating at 20 .. hmmm
[23:50] <natrium42> MrCraig: check the news
[23:50] <natrium42> obama made a speech
[23:51] <NigeyS> oh the blonde lass fro work .. 20 is fine !
[23:51] <MrCraig> awesome :)
[23:51] <MrCraig> I can tease the misses
[23:51] <fsphil> I wish they'd switch to metric properly here - instead of the half-way state we're in now
[23:51] <NigeyS> heh it's a right mess!
[23:51] <MrCraig> 0x20 - I know 20 feels better but really lack of notation is not right.
[23:51] <fsphil> true
[23:53] <MrCraig> right, it's 1am. Time for sleep.
[23:53] <MrCraig> night all
[23:53] <fsphil> night mrc!
[23:53] <NigeyS> sleep? what's that?!
[23:53] <natrium42> nite sleepy MrCraig
[23:53] <fsphil> it's that thing mortals do NigeyS
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[23:53] <NigeyS> mortals or muggles?!
[23:54] Action: NigeyS has been watching harry potter
[23:54] <fsphil> meh, either :)
[23:54] Action: fsphil has been watching Highlander :p
[23:55] <NigeyS> phil ..
[23:55] Action: natrium42 has been watching fsphil
[23:55] <NigeyS> ive got Shufffty on 240 drift, will that do ok ?
[23:55] Action: fsphil waves
[23:55] <NigeyS> or aim to refine a lil more
[23:55] <fsphil> 240 is a standard, it'll do :)
[23:56] <NigeyS> yey
[23:56] <Shufffty> :-)
[23:56] <Shufffty> Success...
[23:56] <NigeyS> Shufffty, you're sorted mr! as a cockney would say..lol
[23:56] <Shufffty> Now I'm tempted to just use one wire though... lol :-)
[23:56] <fsphil> muhahaha!
[23:56] <NigeyS> now take a photo and stick it on ure wall for next time like i did haha!
[23:56] <NigeyS> pmsl
[23:56] Action: NigeyS gets baseball bat ready
[23:57] <fsphil> if you wanted to be really fancy you could use a capacitor, resistor and PWM output
[23:57] <fsphil> could control the shift via the program :)
[23:58] <Shufffty> Phase 2 is to get the sms working on the t68 :-) ... sure I'll be driving you mad again soon enough
[23:58] <NigeyS> hahaha someones going to do that 1 day!
[23:58] <fsphil> I actually think someone did
[23:58] <NigeyS> DanielRichman has some arduino code for that, it should be fairly easy and he's been extremely good at helping me with mine
[23:59] <NigeyS> fsphil, were they insane ?
[23:59] <fsphil> not quite :) it's useful for doing analogue modes like sstv
[23:59] <NigeyS> oh thats a good point
[00:00] --- Sat Apr 2 2011