highaltitude.log.20110330

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[01:34] <stilldavid> this might be a dumb question, but is it possible to listen to APRS messages using fldigi?
[01:36] <Darkside> no
[01:36] <Darkside> fldigi won't demodulate 1200 baud FSK
[01:36] <stilldavid> hm. Is there any way to debug an APRS tracker then? :P
[01:37] <Darkside> theres other APRS software out there
[01:37] <Darkside> i forget the name of it, but it works under wine
[01:37] Action: stilldavid to the Google!
[01:38] <Darkside> yup
[01:42] <stilldavid> what's the HAMware license, dare I ask?
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[04:16] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Lots of antenna fiddling tonight, no major progress. Need to fine tune 40m dipole and borrow ant analyzer for VHF sat testing. #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/52947327605932033]
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[06:14] <griffonbot> @imrcly: Quad helix VHF antenna. 110 grams. Needs tuning #arhab @LVL1WhiteStar http://t.co/26SX3lC [http://twitter.com/imrcly/status/52976848002494464]
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[07:28] <Blackover> high! ))
[07:29] <natrium42> preved medved, Blackover!
[07:30] <Blackover> )
[07:30] <Blackover> there is night in Canad, isn't it?
[07:31] <natrium42> well, i am currently on the west coast in cali
[07:31] <natrium42> it's only 00:30 here
[07:32] <natrium42> there are 9 time zones in russia
[07:33] <Blackover> yeah
[07:33] <natrium42> it's insane
[07:34] Action: natrium42 is going to russia in may
[07:35] <Blackover> cause Russia holds half of Earth diametr, it's ok
[07:38] <Blackover> from UTC +3 to +12
[07:38] <natrium42> :D
[07:40] <Blackover> natrium, what are going to do in May in Russia
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[07:49] <natrium42> Blackover: visit relatives
[07:49] <natrium42> i haven't been in russia for 15 years
[07:50] <Blackover> oh, also weather in May are pretty
[07:50] <Blackover> are u going to Moscow?
[07:51] <natrium42> yes
[07:51] <natrium42> for a week
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[08:16] <mattltm-alt> Hi All
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[08:22] <Hibby> morning
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[08:31] <eroomde> morning
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[08:33] <Laurenceb> gninrom
[08:33] <Shuffty> Morning all.
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[08:34] <mattltm-alt> What has happened to my sunshine?
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[08:48] <fsphil> they stoles it!
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[08:50] <fsphil> it's raining pretty good here - which ain't so bad, the ground was getting really dried out
[08:50] <GW8RAK> Morning fsphil, not got here yet
[08:50] <Laurenceb> openpilot is really progressing well
[08:51] <fsphil> morning!
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[08:51] <Laurenceb> http://progress.openpilot.org/browse/OP-191 would appear to be the same technique as http://ukhas.org.uk/code:fit
[08:51] <Shuffty> Morning fsphil :-)
[08:53] <GW8RAK> Has anyone played with tilt compensated magenetic compasses such as http://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/acatalog/Compass.html
[08:54] <GW8RAK> please?
[08:54] <GW8RAK> I'm trying to find a datasheet to find out the maximum latitude they can be used and/or calibrated at.
[08:55] <Laurenceb> i have some lsm303dlh samples
[08:55] <Laurenceb> that would work
[08:55] <GW8RAK> I want to find out if they would work in the Arctic and/or Antarctic
[08:55] <Laurenceb> id imagine accuracy decreases at extreme latitudes
[08:56] <Laurenceb> but as long a B isnt aligned with G
[08:57] <GW8RAK> Just looking at the datsheet for that chip now.
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[08:58] <GW8RAK> If they can work with a 60 degree tilt, then they must be able to work horizontally with high angles of incidence of the magnetic field
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[09:03] <GW8RAK> But how they would work close to the North Magnetic Pole is probably unknown.
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[10:18] <Hibby> ooh, ISS>
[10:18] Action: Hibby turns on the system
[10:20] <Hibby> aaaaaaaaaaaaand the rotors crash
[10:20] <Hibby> great
[10:21] <Hibby> As brilliant as they are, nothing really supports M2 RC2800PX, and thus I can't suggest them, lol. I have the command set, so I might write it into hamlib, but im sure ours are broked :/
[10:23] <fsphil> the rotors crashed?
[10:24] <Hibby> Aye. Surprising, isn't it. The stop reacting to commands from PC or the buttons
[10:24] <Hibby> oh, and the the tnc isn't talking to the pc today either
[10:25] <Hibby> thre we go
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[11:10] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[11:17] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman <jon@jonsowman.com> "Re: [UKHAS] Fwd: Uploading to spacenear.us from fldigi"
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[12:16] <jgrahamc> Well, looks like GAGA-1 launch won't be this weekend. Unless anyone has a fast boat :-)
[12:23] <LazyLeopard> Wet landing zone?
[12:24] <jgrahamc> North Sea
[12:25] <griffonbot> @PBH5: #PBH5 team is in final preparations for the PBH-14 mission planned for this weekend. Stay tuned for launch date/ time and band plan.#arhab [http://twitter.com/PBH5/status/53070303852630016]
[12:25] <fsphil> ayee, many a payload has ended in those treacherous waters
[12:26] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[12:26] <LazyLeopard> ...and washed up on Denmark's shores...
[12:27] <jgrahamc> I'm not launching until the predicted spot is well within East Anglia
[12:28] <LazyLeopard> ...or further inland, presumably?
[12:29] <jgrahamc> As long as it's land and not a major urban area I'll be happy to launch.
[12:29] <LazyLeopard> :)
[12:31] <GW8RAK> Forgot to mention that I'd had an email from the British Model Flying Association about insurance for HAB'ing.
[12:32] <GW8RAK> I'd asked if our activities were covered under their automatic insurance for members, but unfortunately, they have decided that HAB'ing is not one of their activities, so the insurance wouldn't apply. :(
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[12:33] <GW8RAK> I was wondering about building a payload in the shape of a plane as coming down on a parachute is permitted in their activities.
[12:33] <GW8RAK> Will try UK rocketry next.
[12:34] <jgrahamc> Interesting to hear more about the insurance situation as you find out.
[12:35] <GW8RAK> I have my doubts, but since rocketry payloads come down on a parachure, the risk is no greater for a balloon payload than a pointy rocket thing.
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[12:40] <Shuffty> Afternoon all.
[12:40] <Shuffty> Does ukhas have a forum?
[12:41] <jgrahamc> Yes, there's a Google mailing list.
[12:41] <jgrahamc> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
[12:42] <Shuffty> Thanks jgrahamc - I've actually already joined that, but wondered if there was a 'regular' type forum in operation anywhere.
[12:43] <jgrahamc> Not that I am aware of. Between this IRC channel and the Google mailing list I think that's plenty :-)
[12:44] <Shuffty> Yes, you probably right! :-)
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[12:54] <NigelMoby> Afternooooooin
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Afternoon indeed.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> It is raining here.
[12:58] <SpeedEvil> So I'm smashing up my bathroom with a hammer.
[12:59] <Randomskk> as you do
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> making a small toilet + washbasin into a smallish wet-room + shower + toilet.
[13:00] <Randomskk> functionality++ I guess
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[13:01] <SpeedEvil> I'm fixing this bathroom, so I can tear the other one out, and gt that entire side of the house.
[13:02] <Shuffty> Can anyone explain in brief what 'Neck Lift' is, or point me in the right direction as to where I can find out more info.
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> Neck lift is the amount of lift, measured at the neck.
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[13:03] <SpeedEvil> A balloon with 1Kg neck lift can lift a bag of sugar tied to its neck.
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> A 1Kg bag of sugar.
[13:03] <SpeedEvil> 1Kg net.
[13:04] <Laurenceb_> mmm sugar
[13:04] Action: SpeedEvil wishes laptops could be run on sugar.
[13:04] <jgrahamc> I used a 1kg bag of sugar to test my parachute :-) http://blog.jgc.org/2011/03/gaga-1-parachute-test.html
[13:04] <Shuffty> That makes sense - so the amount a balloon can carry is determined by thesize of the balloon / gas & the max neck lift?? IS this right?
[13:05] <SpeedEvil> One sugarcube = 18Wh.
[13:06] <jonsowman> Shuffty: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cuspaceflight/calc/
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Shuffty: Not 100% - you also have to take into account drag and desired ascent rate.
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> You need a given amount of extra gas (more or less) to make it ascend at a constant(ish) rate.
[13:06] <SpeedEvil> Over being 'balanced'
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> And yes, the calculartor is good.
[13:07] <Shuffty> Thanks jonsowman. will have a read of that.
[13:07] <jonsowman> Shuffty: have a play, it'll make things clearer :)
[13:07] <Randomskk> the neck lift value is more the thing you measure as you fill the balloon
[13:07] <Shuffty> SpeedEvil - what are the benefits of a lighter load
[13:07] <Randomskk> it's given because it's one of the easiest things to measure
[13:07] <Randomskk> but the basic concept is, the more gas you put into the balloon, the more lift you get
[13:08] <Randomskk> the more weight of payload, the less free lift you get
[13:08] <Randomskk> you need at least as much lift as payload weight, and then the extra lift goes to making it go up - the more free lift, the faster it'l go up
[13:08] <Randomskk> however there's a limit on how much gas you can put into a balloon, and the less you put in, the higher the balloon can go up before popping
[13:08] <Randomskk> (as the gas expands as you go up, so a very full balloon will not have much room for expansion and pop earlier)
[13:09] <Shuffty> Am I right in my presumption that the faster it goes up, the less distance it travels (winds not take into account).
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Up to a limit - at the extremes, less gas seems to be contained by the balloon.
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Shuffty: yes.
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Shuffty: Even taking winds into account.
[13:09] <Randomskk> by and large, yes. it going up faster means it bursts sooner and then hits the ground sooner
[13:09] <Randomskk> so it spends less time in the air
[13:09] <Randomskk> and thus drifts less
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> There can be wierrdneses where that's not the case - if your balloon crosses a front into dramatically different conditions.
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> But generally not.
[13:10] <Shuffty> Thanks for all your help and input guys! Much appreciated! Still trying to get my head around everything! :-)
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:11] <Shuffty> I'm planning on releasing a balloon at some stage in the future - working on everything at the moment. My main concern ( and I'm sure I'm not alone) it loosing the payload to sea. Would rather sacrifice high a little.
[13:12] <Shuffty> high = height!
[13:12] <jonsowman> Shuffty: use the landing predictor, its pretty accurate
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> Where are you?
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> The landing predictor is awsome.
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> Can also be used for determining fallout from japan.
[13:13] <jonsowman> hehe
[13:13] <Shuffty> I've had a play with the landing predictor - very nice.
[13:13] <Shuffty> I'm in Manchester Speedevil.
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[13:13] <Shuffty> How accurate is that landing predictor based on previous launches?
[13:14] <jonsowman> it gets more accurate the closer to launch time you run it
[13:14] <Randomskk> depends on how far in advance you run it, how good you are at getting the lift right, how accurate your payload mass is
[13:14] Action: Laurenceb_ tells Lewis Page about SpeedEvils fearmongering fallout comment
[13:14] <Randomskk> mostly it'l give you general direction accurately and in the few days beforehand you'll usually get within some tens of kms?
[13:14] <Randomskk> by the time the balloon's popped and is on the way down it can be very very accurate, km or less
[13:14] <Shuffty> Nice!
[13:15] <Randomskk> but that does depend on the above being accurate
[13:15] <jgrahamc> I asked jcoxon that question and his response was that a few days before you'll know the track along which the balloon will fly, but not where it will land precisely.
[13:15] <Randomskk> yea, that's about right
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> Especially handy is if you've got a live GPS, as you can sometimes get to where you can almost catch the balloon.
[13:15] <SpeedEvil> I don't think anyones actually caught one yet.
[13:15] <Randomskk> or have a picnic in the field it comes down in
[13:15] <jonsowman> I want to catch one
[13:16] <Randomskk> haha
[13:16] <jgrahamc> Catching it would be awesome.
[13:17] <Shuffty> :-)
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[13:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AwkqXa_NIfo#t=134s - high speed video fun
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[14:08] <NigeyS> meep meep
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[14:12] <NigeyS> ping fsphil
[14:14] <fsphil> pongish
[14:15] <NigeyS> ello dude!
[14:15] <NigeyS> i figured it out
[14:15] <NigeyS> finally
[14:15] <NigeyS> 0.004mm !
[14:16] <fsphil> oooh
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[14:16] <fsphil> wassat?
[14:17] <NigeyS> the matter at the heart of a blackhole.. 0.004mm made up of quark degenerate matter.. see.. no need for a singularity!
[14:17] <NigeyS> assuming quarks really are 10-18m .. we've not observed their site accurately yet :(
[14:18] <Laurenceb_> what the...
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> 10-18meters?
[14:19] <NigeyS> xchat wont do the proper - thingy
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[14:22] <NigeyS> although my idea might break down when applied to a supermassive black hole, it works for stellar mass, and so on, but much above, and it becomes a bit messy
[14:23] <Laurenceb_> did you study physics at university?
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[14:25] <NigeyS> nope, im doing a BSc in physical science, and im generally fairly thick, but i do have a keen interest in black holes
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> i think thats wrong
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> its cant be degenerate matter
[14:25] <Laurenceb_> but im a little rusty on degererate matter, sorry
[14:27] <NigeyS> that is an argument i've seen before, but as it stands, anything that rules out a singularity has at least a chance of being correct, einsteins classical cannot describe what's at the heart of a black hole, what i've come up with as as good as anything.
[14:27] <NigeyS> theory*
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> Now come up with a way in which itr makes a testable difference.
[14:27] <NigeyS> it's untestable :p
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> Otherwises, it's just masturbation.
[14:27] <Laurenceb_> i think you can show the degenerate matter will collapse
[14:27] <NigeyS> unless you want to jump into a bhlackhole for me? lol
[14:28] <Laurenceb_> Chandrasekhar mass limit iirc
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> Also - degenerate matter has way too high a density.
[14:28] <NigeyS> laurenceb from what i've read, the only thing that would positively state wether degenerate matter breaks down at the extremes of temp, and pressure is quantum gravity theory .. which mr hawkings is still working on !
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> Larger black holes would actually float in water.
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[14:29] <SpeedEvil> (that is - their average density inside the event horizon is ...)
[14:39] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, you got me there ?
[14:39] <NigeyS> i cant envisage a 10 solar mass black hole floating in water :|
[14:40] <griffonbot> Received email: SebSahlin <seb.sailorboy@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Short technical question regarding the NTX2"
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> Yes, it's a silly idea, but the density is quite low.
[14:41] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Our friends at Lockheed/Cornell U Engineering class are about to launch a gigantic big brother to our style of balloon this weekend! #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/53104478106300418]
[14:41] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, yuhuh, its mind boggling stuff
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_maser
[14:42] <SpeedEvil> neat!
[14:44] <NigeyS> maser.. ive heard of that somewhere before.. hmm
[14:44] Dan-K2VOL (~Adium@74-143-44-42.static.insightbb.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:46] <SpeedEvil> (the doppler shift in black hole acretion disks measurments using them)
[14:46] <NigeyS> ahhh got ya
[14:46] <NigeyS> morning Dan-K2VOL
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[14:48] <SpeedEvil> http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9907013
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[14:50] <griffonbot> Received email: John Graham-Cumming <jgc@jgc.org> "Re: [UKHAS] Short technical question regarding the NTX2"
[14:52] <Randomskk> but it didn't receive my email? :(
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL> morning NigeyS
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL> everyone prepping to listen for PBH this week?
[14:53] <Dan-K2VOL> wish our receiving location had less than S9 noise level
[14:54] <fsphil> know the feeling dan
[14:55] <Randomskk> any upcoming launches using the tracker?
[14:56] <andrewallan> hi all - skypod is launching early next week!
[14:57] <griffonbot> Received email: Adam Greig <random@randomskk.net> "Re: [UKHAS] Short technical question regarding the NTX2"
[14:57] <Randomskk> andrewallan: is skypod using the tracker?
[14:58] <andrewallan> its using dl-fldigi
[14:58] <Randomskk> cool
[14:58] <Randomskk> do you have the xml file for it yet?
[14:59] <andrewallan> em...its on the dl-fldigi hab mode drop down menu
[15:00] <Randomskk> sweet
[15:01] <andrewallan> the data format is a little non-standard so i'm hoping someone will write conversion code for that callsign on the server so that it can appear on spacenear.us
[15:02] <Randomskk> haha it is quite non standard
[15:02] <Randomskk> I've just finished up code that steals data from the old tracker and posts it to the new, beta system
[15:02] <Randomskk> so the next few flights will probably serve as something of a test. invisisbly to anything else, it doesn't affect current tracker operations
[15:03] <andrewallan> we are measuring external temp, internal temp, pressure, humidity, bat voltage, time, lat, lon, altitude, speed, etc...
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[15:03] <andrewallan> lots of data available for anyone listening!
[15:03] <Randomskk> and I see you are now using a checksum? :P
[15:03] <fsphil> andrewallan, remember to email the ukhas mailing list before your flight :)
[15:04] <jonsowman> apex is also 17 fields
[15:04] <fsphil> and let us know here when it's launched, so we can help track
[15:04] <andrewallan> yep i wrote a crc checksum this morning
[15:04] <andrewallan> works well
[15:05] <Randomskk> got a launch date yet?
[15:05] <andrewallan> yeah we will email the mailing list before we launch
[15:05] <andrewallan> hopefully launching on Monday 4th April around 10am - depending on weather
[15:06] <andrewallan> probably from somewhere near Kilmarnock in Scotland
[15:06] <Randomskk> cool
[15:07] <fsphil> hope the weather improves for you!
[15:07] <andrewallan> yeah me too! :-)
[15:10] <Randomskk> andrewallan: it's using the crc16 checksum?
[15:11] <andrewallan> yep
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[15:17] <Randomskk> andrewallan: what's the format for your latitude/longitude fields?
[15:17] <Shuffty> Afternoon all.
[15:18] <jonsowman> Randomskk: see the email I forwarded to the ukhas list
[15:21] <Randomskk> http://pastie.org/1735507 ;o
[15:22] <Randomskk> so it's decimal degrees E-5
[15:22] <Randomskk> I see
[15:22] <jonsowman> yes
[15:22] <Randomskk> wait, what. E+5 surely?
[15:22] <Randomskk> basically it's dd.dddd but without the .?
[15:22] <Randomskk> oh, yea, E-5 then
[15:22] <Randomskk> cool
[15:22] <jonsowman> yes
[15:22] <Randomskk> okay
[15:23] <Randomskk> perfect time to write up the code for habitat to have filters
[15:23] <Randomskk> and then give this a filter
[15:23] <Randomskk> :o
[15:24] <griffonbot> Received email: David Akerman <dave@sccs.co.uk> "Re: [UKHAS] Short technical question regarding the NTX2"
[15:29] <andrewallan> what is that pastie.org file?
[15:30] <jonsowman> a configuration document for the new listener :)
[15:31] <Randomskk> http://pastie.org/1735538 is the config doc for the old style system
[15:32] <andrewallan> ok cool. some of the fields might not be quite right - maybe its just my ignorance
[15:33] <Randomskk> what doesn't look right?
[15:33] <andrewallan> like field 2 is milliseconds since power on, not a counter
[15:33] <Randomskk> okay
[15:33] <andrewallan> it will go very high, i store it as unsigned long not int
[15:34] <Randomskk> renamed it uptime :D
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[15:34] <jonsowman> andrewallan: why not just have a counter?
[15:34] <Randomskk> that's fine, they all use sexy modern languages that handle very large ints natively
[15:36] <andrewallan> could just use counter...millis was convenient and gives a measure of flight time
[15:36] <andrewallan> but i am totally new to this
[15:36] <Randomskk> eh, counters are traditional but millis works too
[15:37] <DanielRichman> php chokes on anything larger than 32/64 (arch dep) unless you tell it to use floats, iirc
[15:37] <Shuffty> Darn and blast - have ordered a NTX2-434.650.10 instead of the 434.075.10 ... Can anybody confirm is this will be useable, or if I should change it.
[15:37] <Randomskk> php has all sorts of amusingly rubbish errors
[15:37] <Randomskk> Shuffty: s'fine
[15:37] <DanielRichman> :-D
[15:38] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: like that one with the tiny floats
[15:38] <DanielRichman> ha
[15:38] <Shuffty> @Randomski Thanks for that! :-)
[15:38] <Randomskk> so silly
[15:38] <Randomskk> Shuffty: np. both are perfectly usable
[15:38] <DanielRichman> was that the dos the entire server one?
[15:38] <Randomskk> DanielRichman: makes the php thread 100% cpu
[15:38] <Randomskk> hit up four or eight times and all the cpus will 100%
[15:39] <DanielRichman> woo!
[15:39] <Randomskk> won't stop until it's killed by something/someone
[15:39] <Randomskk> it kept trying to approximate its binary representation to closer to the input float
[15:39] <Randomskk> but each succession made it worse
[15:39] <Randomskk> :(
[15:39] <Randomskk> not what you want
[15:40] <andrewallan> oh also the skypod shift is approx 450, not 425
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[15:53] <n900evil> http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/image.php?gallery_id=2&image_id=432
[15:53] <n900evil> first Hg image
[16:10] <Shuffty> Sorry to keep jumping in with questions - but any of you have experience with the Yagi 7 element ZL special?
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[16:12] <dutch-mill> Gafternoon
[16:13] mattltm (~mattltm@92.7.176.55) joined #highaltitude.
[16:15] <mattltm> Hi all
[16:19] <Shuffty> Hi mattltm
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[16:24] <mattltm> Hi Shuffty. Not much going on in here today.
[16:24] <LazyLeopard> Shuffty: A friend made one and seems to be able to use it successfully, but I've heard folks having trouble with the inter-element matching.
[16:24] <mattltm> Hi LazyLeopard :)
[16:25] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: SpeedBall-1 Launch "A" scrub problems summary blog post is up: http://whitestarballoon.com/?p=451 Get the dirt on what hit the fan! #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/53130618514571264]
[16:25] <LazyLeopard> Hiya mattltm
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[16:25] <LazyLeopard> Second day of course next Saturday?
[16:25] <mattltm> Yup :)
[16:27] <mattltm> Just doing my homework :)
[16:27] <LazyLeopard> Your construction project?
[16:28] <mattltm> Nearly finished. The board is all done and I want to mount it in a box but I know they will want to look at the soldering so I'm not sure what to do.
[16:32] <LazyLeopard> Yeah. I was joking "What happens when someone brings in a project all potted up?" and Alan came back with "When I can see the soldering..."
[16:34] <mattltm> lol. I may take mine it all sealed up then :)
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[16:47] <chembrow> evening all
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[16:51] <griffonbot> @Greendrv: RT @LVL1WhiteStar: SpeedBall-1 Launch "A" scrub problems summary blog post is up: http://whitestarballoon.com/?p=451 Get the dirt on wh ... [http://twitter.com/Greendrv/status/53137232026025984]
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[16:53] <Blackover> High!
[16:53] <Blackover> need help
[16:54] <Blackover> cant get arduino uno work with GT-320FW
[16:54] <Blackover> https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=144
[16:54] <Blackover> code used from there http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/173
[16:55] mattltm (~mattltm@92.7.176.55) joined #highaltitude.
[16:56] <mattltm> Ah ha! I have returned :)
[16:56] <Blackover> Yellow connected to RX-0, Blue - TX1, Black - Gnd, Red - 5v
[16:57] <chembrow> Blackover baud rate?
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> bum patients
[16:57] <SpeedEvil> argh
[16:57] <Blackover> 4800
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[16:59] <Blackover> now i am trying http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/GPSQuickStart/gps_parsing_v13.pde
[16:59] <chembrow> are you getting any data out of the gps?
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[17:00] <Blackover> no
[17:01] <Blackover> probably i messed up with pins
[17:01] <chembrow> try inverting tx & rx
[17:02] <Blackover> if i'm using code http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/GPSQuickStart/gps_parsing_v13.pde what pins i have to use on arduino uno?
[17:02] <Blackover> without editing code
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> (re above) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Exercise-induced_anaphylaxis&action=historysubmit&diff=82513519&oldid=79456289
[17:02] <SpeedEvil> Wikipedia vandalism can be so random.
[17:03] <chembrow> rx = 2, tx = 3
[17:04] <Blackover> from right to left i have to pass 0 and 1 and use 2 and 3, right?
[17:04] <chembrow> yeah. it's using software serial on 2/3 rather than hardware serial on 0/1
[17:11] <SamSilver> thanx for a ton of fun > bbl in 10hrs > byeeeee
[17:13] <Blackover> what does mean bbl
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[17:13] <Dan-K2VOL> It means "I will be back later"
[17:13] <Blackover> YEHAAAA GPS is blincing in red
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[17:22] <MNSP> hello all :)
[17:22] <Shuffty> @mattltm Hows the HABAT coming along? Just been reading through your blog - it seems like a great idea!
[17:22] <Shuffty> Hello MNSP! :-)
[17:23] <MNSP> hiya Shuffty
[17:23] <mattltm> Hi MNSP
[17:23] <Blackover> ok there was bad contact in pitch wafer connector
[17:24] <Blackover> now waiting for any data
[17:24] <MNSP> hey mattltm, been singing your and MrCraigs praises to any and all who will listen for help given at weekend
[17:24] <mattltm> No problem :)
[17:25] <MNSP> have been lent an arduino sensor kit from work.. new toys to play with :)
[17:25] <mattltm> I like Chocolate cake and Corona by the way ;)
[17:25] <mattltm> I've just put a sparkfun protosheild together.
[17:26] <MNSP> LOL, will keep that in mind ;)
[17:26] <mattltm> Just about to upload the pics.
[17:26] <MNSP> oh nice, haven't used sparkfun gear before
[17:26] <mattltm> The protosheild is good qaulity.
[17:27] <mattltm> One of the solder joints is a bit too close to the Arduino USB port for my liking though.
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[17:28] <MNSP> have simple musings site in faves
[17:29] <mattltm> Lol.
[17:29] <mattltm> Probably about the only one!
[17:29] <MNSP> lol
[17:30] <MNSP> I need to start a site or blog too. I can contribute my journey for the next newbie to learn from
[17:30] <jonsowman> MNSP: good idea
[17:30] <fsphil> I so need a site too, but I'd probably just fill it up with boring stuffs
[17:30] <MNSP> that way what took me all weekend should take them maybe half an hour
[17:30] <MNSP> and save their hair too
[17:31] <jonsowman> quick wordpress job :)
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[17:31] <Dan-K2VOL> that's what we use too
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[17:31] <mattltm> I'm happy to provide hosting space for HAB related wordpress blogs if anyone needs it :)
[17:31] kd0mto (~dago@208-58-114-73.c3-0.eas-ubr3.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:32] <mattltm> Hell, I'll even install wordpress for you :)
[17:32] <MNSP> Thank you mattltm
[17:32] <jonsowman> MNSP: you can also use the UKHAS wiki
[17:32] <jonsowman> that's what it's there for :)
[17:32] <MNSP> I think I have an old wordpress account
[17:35] <MNSP> I was kinda singing your praises too jonsowman
[17:35] <jonsowman> oh?
[17:36] <mattltm> jonsowman doesnt like cake. Best just send it all to me :)
[17:36] <MNSP> actually I have to admit I had a chip on my shoulder
[17:36] <jonsowman> mattltm: :P
[17:37] <MNSP> but the D'oh moment was when I realised what the CU in CUSF stood for
[17:37] <MNSP> and how UKHAS has developed
[17:37] <MNSP> my hands are up and my apology is made
[17:38] Action: MNSP thinks he needs to look for a rather large cake
[17:38] <jonsowman> hehe
[17:38] <mattltm> I forgive you. Now where is my damn cake!
[17:38] <jonsowman> lol
[17:38] <fsphil> in the shop :p
[17:39] <MNSP> its in the post with a cheque
[17:39] <mattltm> Lol.
[17:40] <MNSP> I may have even picqued(sp?) the interest of a collegue... he seems particularly taken with the idea of HABing
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[17:40] <mattltm> Good. Tell him that he needs to send everyone cake to join.
[17:40] <MNSP> oh thats a given
[17:41] <MNSP> which reminds me...
[17:41] <mattltm> Can you guess that i'm hungry?
[17:41] <MNSP> brb
[17:41] jasonb_ (~jasonb@12.201.129.162) joined #highaltitude.
[17:42] <mattltm> Ah. The good wench has just delivered a cup of tea and a chocolate bar to my office :)
[17:43] <fsphil> the bare essentials
[17:43] <MNSP> did you guys see this back when it came out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWATd0LRA_4
[17:44] <MNSP> lol, 'the good wench'
[17:45] <MNSP> am trying hard not to have a chip on my shoulder about the bbc, having learned my lesson
[17:45] <mattltm> I would love to watch it but it seems like flash on Ubuntu is screwed up :(
[17:45] <fsphil> chips are not always bad
[17:45] <jonsowman> flash and ubuntu is.. well... urgh
[17:45] <chembrow> mattltm from memory you're not missing much
[17:45] <mattltm> Ugggggggg. chips.
[17:45] <mattltm> lol
[17:46] <MNSP> I do like my chips:, wood, computer and take-away to name a few
[17:46] <fsphil> hehe, that man Steve Randall shows up everywhere
[17:47] <MNSP> seems like they using fldigi
[17:47] <fsphil> tis indeed
[17:47] <MNSP> possibly also the ukhas prtocol thingy
[17:47] <mattltm> Damn you ubuntu!
[17:48] <MNSP> and yet its presented as all their own hard workings out and expertise plus the chap they brought in
[17:48] Action: mattltm goes to find his windows 7 disk
[17:48] <fsphil> that bad eh mattltm??
[17:48] <chembrow> mattltm try an HTML5 browser maybe?
[17:48] <jonsowman> mattltm: it should /work/
[17:48] <MNSP> who is possibly using an ft-790 like mine :)
[17:48] <chembrow> works on Fedora :p
[17:49] <mattltm> I may just cave in and run Arch again :)
[17:49] Action: MNSP deep breath *rant over*
[17:49] <fsphil> MNSP, the chap did most of it -- he pops into the channel now and then, RocketBoy
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[17:50] <MNSP> fair play to him!!! but come on thats not how its coming over
[17:50] <MNSP> <-- may be overly sensitive
[17:51] <mattltm> lol
[17:51] <mattltm> No offence.
[17:51] <mattltm> :)
[17:52] <MNSP> but I suppose thats why I mentioned it here to get my facts straight, thanks fsphil
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[17:53] <MNSP> I will post cake to you too if you like
[17:53] <fsphil> chocolate
[17:53] <fsphil> :p
[17:53] <jonsowman> nom
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[17:54] <fsphil> Steve was also on Coast a while back, doing a WWII-style radar experiment
[17:54] <jonsowman> never knew that
[17:54] <MNSP> don't know Coast?
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[17:54] <MNSP> funnily enough I was wondering about radar today
[17:54] <fsphil> program on BBC 2 now an then, all about the coast oddly enough ;)
[17:55] <MNSP> Oh that Coast!!! I thought you meant some open source type group for some reason
[17:55] <fsphil> was quite neat -- they flew a plane over the site, and listened to the reflections from a normal radio transmitter
[17:56] <MNSP> this might not be right group to ask but has anyone used anything like that for collision avoidance?
[17:56] <MNSP> apart from RAF etc before anyone hets funny
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[17:59] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[17:59] <W0OTM> howdy
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[17:59] <W0OTM> anyone heard from the PENS group launching this weekend?
[17:59] <fsphil> MNSP, never read about it being done. from a balloon you mean?
[18:00] <fsphil> not a thing W0OTM
[18:01] <MNSP> not necessarily ballooning but this whole 'amature' scene eg diy-drones or the model rocket builders or robotics enthusiast
[18:01] <fsphil> I've seen Infrared LEDs and detectors used for object avoidance, and sonar
[18:02] <mattltm> I've been given a Gilsson (the daddy of small GPS antennas) GPS antenna that does not work.
[18:02] <MNSP> yeah I have but the examples I saw weren't really of much distance
[18:03] <MNSP> given?
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[18:03] <mattltm> Looks like it's been opened up and the the coax replaced at some point.
[18:03] <mattltm> Yup, but a pilot at the local airfield.
[18:03] <mattltm> *by
[18:04] <mattltm> Here is why it's not working...
[18:04] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMAG0051.jpg
[18:04] <mattltm> The centre core of the coax has lifted the pad away from the pcb
[18:04] <fsphil> looks a bit messy
[18:05] <MNSP> what Imean fsphil is that they were indoor examples of how the tech works
[18:05] <mattltm> It was pumped full of silicone!
[18:05] <fsphil> eek
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[18:05] <fsphil> IR wouldn't be much use outside unfornatually
[18:05] <fsphil> too much noise
[18:05] Zuph (~bradluyst@2001:470:8:626:222:43ff:fe71:9992) joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] <mattltm> I'm trying to work out if its repairable
[18:05] <MNSP> seconds fsphils eek!!!
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[18:08] <mattltm> Here is what the base looks like..
[18:08] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMAG0054.jpg
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[18:08] Action: MrCraig sneaks in and sits quiet in the corner.
[18:08] <mattltm> Looks like someone has removed the original coax, drilled a hole in the bottom of the case and fitted some rg58.
[18:09] <MNSP> and did it work after these modifications, do we know?
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[18:09] <mattltm> Well the pilot said it just stopped working after being installed for a year so I guess it worked fine.
[18:10] <mattltm> It was mounted on the top of a microlight.
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[18:10] <MNSP> I drew same conclusion about IR fsphil and sonar is great if you're underwater. but what about on land or in the air, say for a drone?
[18:10] <mattltm> I think if I can sort out the knackered pcb it may be good to go again.
[18:11] <Shuffty> HAving trouble finding a supplier for the Falcom FSA03 - anybody got any recomendations?
[18:11] <MNSP> I need a good gps too shuffty
[18:12] <mattltm> Right. Dinner time.
[18:12] <MNSP> And don't think we didn't all notice you sneaking in MrCraig ;)
[18:12] <MrCraig> :-)
[18:13] <mattltm> While i'm gone, you lot research how to fix damaged pcb tracks.
[18:13] <mattltm> :0
[18:13] <fsphil> the only place I know is out of stock: http://www.sequoia.co.uk/shop/product.php?p=807
[18:13] <MrCraig> mattltm conductive paint
[18:13] <MrCraig> it's a little pricey but works - used to use it for installing alarm trails across glass.
[18:13] <mattltm> MrCraig, Hold that thought...
[18:13] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMAG0051.jpg
[18:14] <fsphil> ooh used to use that to fix old game cartridges
[18:14] <MrCraig> :-)
[18:14] <fsphil> the tracks would wear out from all the swapping
[18:14] <MNSP> I think you can get it from halfords for fixing rear radiator thingy in screen
[18:14] <MrCraig> I picked up a commodore 64 a couple of weeks back with a handful of games including carts, I might need some soon.
[18:15] <MNSP> nom time, see you later :)
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[18:16] <MrCraig> also, it's a bit of a giggle but for bridging small gaps inexpensively, a good soft pencil makes a connection - though it's best to coat that in clear nail polish.
[18:16] Action: MrCraig has hacked the odd firmware in his time.
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[18:19] <MrCraig> my turn, someone tell me how to convert a 470Mhz tv antenna into a 430Mhz yagi - how to set the reflector distances, what impedance coax I'd need, and how on earth do you attach a bnc (because the clamp on I bought from maplin proved to be a challenge for a physics major and a software engineer in the field)
[18:19] <MrCraig> :-)
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[18:20] <MrCraig> That was more a vent about my own stupid choices than an enquiry.
[18:22] <fsphil> tv antenna is 75 ohms, not a good match for an amateur receiver or coax (50 ohms)
[18:22] <fsphil> though for reception only, it might not make that much difference - not sure
[18:22] <MrCraig> *nods - I could potentially use the boom though right? It has a reasonable handle attachment
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[18:23] <fsphil> should be able to
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[18:28] <MrCraig> ok, just bought a yagi - anyone need a tv antenna? :-P
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[18:30] <NigeyS> hey zuphers
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[18:40] <mattltm> MrCraig, i'm disappointed in you!
[18:41] <Shuffty> Not sure why, buDid my last msg go through - for some reason I lost my connection.
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[18:45] <mattltm> Right. Lets fix this antenna :)
[18:48] <LazyLeopard> Shuffty: Last one of yours I saw was this: HAving trouble finding a supplier for the Falcom FSA03 - anybody got any recomendations?
[18:53] <mattltm> This is a right mess!
[18:55] <MrCraig> hi mattltm ty :)
[18:57] <MrCraig> hey - think of it this way - I can go out weekends and point it at stuff now - more listeners the better right?
[18:57] <mattltm> lol. sure :)
[18:58] <MrCraig> Actually - had I a little more time I'd have built one - but there's plenty to learn before I can do that successfully - I couldn't even tune the radio a week ago :-P
[18:59] <mattltm> I was tempted by a 19 element yagi today.
[18:59] <MrCraig> an ebay spot?
[18:59] <mattltm> Yup
[19:00] <MrCraig> About £20 inc packaging from lowestoft?
[19:00] <mattltm> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300541293307&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
[19:01] <MrCraig> oh lol - I was just kinda hoping it was the one I bought - but it's not.
[19:01] <mattltm> lol
[19:01] <mattltm> Thought it would be a good match for mt 11 element 2M tonna
[19:01] <MrCraig> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190517871236&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
[19:02] <MrCraig> it's only 11 element
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[19:02] <MrCraig> I needed a reasonable size for the car
[19:02] <mattltm> nice thought. Plenty of gain.
[19:02] <mattltm> That will look silly on the roof!
[19:03] <MrCraig> lol I plan to transport it within
[19:03] <mattltm> Ha! Put it on top of my HABAT and you have the perfect chase car!
[19:03] <MrCraig> not that I mind looking silly - actually, I was in geekdom driving around with the magnetic 4xwhip on the roof - I might attach it as a permanent ornament
[19:04] <mattltm> Looks like a tonna beam.
[19:05] Action: MrCraig looks bemused
[19:05] <mattltm> 11 element version of this? http://www.f9ft.com/20909e.html
[19:05] <mattltm> Maybe?
[19:06] <MrCraig> Ring dipole, back reflector and x-parasitics, look the same to me
[19:07] <mattltm> Not sure if tonna ever made an 11 element 70cm beam though. Maybe a copy?
[19:08] <MrCraig> aah so tonna is a brand :)
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[19:08] <mattltm> Yes, sorry. Good antennas.
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[19:08] <MrCraig> When I get back from cov I'm going to sit my foundation
[19:09] <mattltm> I think your may be in the area of 13dbi of gain.
[19:09] <MrCraig> I don't understand dbi's yet - When I tested the antenna's I have at the weekend I was just recording the S/N ratio and going on that
[19:12] <mattltm> That's cool. Gain is an interesting subject.
[19:12] <Shuffty> I bought one of the 70cm 7 Element ZL Special off ebay this afternoon - wish I'd asked on here first though.. :-)
[19:13] <mattltm> The ZL is an interesting antenna.
[19:13] <mattltm> Strange feed arrangment :)
[19:13] <Shuffty> 'interesting' in what way Matt? :-)
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[19:15] <mattltm> The element is drived with a stub of ladder line.
[19:17] <mattltm> It will be interesting to see if it is a "real" ZL once it turns up.
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[19:18] <mattltm> Shuffty, here isa good link for you..
[19:18] <mattltm> http://belajar.internetsehat.org/pustaka/library-sw-hw/amateur-radio/ant/phaseshift/The%20Poor%20Old%20ZL%20Special.htm
[19:18] <Shuffty> :-0 has to be better than nothing - I'll have a look into which aerial I should be buying once I'm up and running .. :-)
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[19:25] <Shuffty> Looks like my special will be back on ebay in a few weeks then :-)
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[19:26] <mattltm> Lol, don't get me wrong Shuffty, it is a good antenna and it has it's place.
[19:27] <mattltm> Many users swear by them.
[19:27] <LazyLeopard> Shuffty: I'm told they work very well if you get the phasing on the nail.
[19:29] <Shuffty> Well I shall give it a whirl and see then... :-)
[19:29] <Shuffty> MrCraig - you planning on getting your amateur radio license?
[19:30] <NigeyS> wb Dan-K2VOL
[19:30] <Dan-K2VOL> hey NigeyS
[19:31] <NigeyS> i need to fix that link btw its ignoring the keyword for some reason
[19:31] <W0OTM> Hello World
[19:31] <MrCraig> Yes Shuffty, when I'm back from the midlands. There's an instructor in the town I used to live (about 30 mins away)
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[19:31] <MrCraig> hi W0OTM
[19:32] <W0OTM> MrCraig: How you doing my friend
[19:33] <MrCraig> Good - almost everything is in place, so this evening I'm putting my mind on something else. I think I'm going to write a basic ANN simulation for a project I have planned in the future.
[19:33] <W0OTM> MrCraig: very cool!
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[19:34] <W0OTM> MrCraig: in place for what?
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[19:34] <MrCraig> W0OTM: For my launch in about 10 days time :)
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[19:34] <W0OTM> MrCraig: ahh, didnt know. got a link?
[19:35] <MrCraig> http://www.craigchapman.me.uk/ballooncam and http://ukhas.org.uk/general:upcoming_launches (ARTEMIS)
[19:37] <W0OTM> MrCraig: woot, nice! where did you find your foam box?
[19:38] <MrCraig> W0OTM: Those were a fortunate ebay purchase - and I think there are many left if you need a link I can probably dig it up
[19:39] <W0OTM> MrCraig: naw, but nice for the camera
[19:39] <W0OTM> MrCraig: size?
[19:40] <MrCraig> W0OTM: 183x128x114mm
[19:40] <MrCraig> W0OTM: The camera sits in there nice, but I do now have to modify the box so that the zoom doesn't protrude.
[19:41] <SpeedEvil> Or just put a ring of foam on the outside
[19:41] Action: SpeedEvil is pondering buying another 10m^3 of foam.
[19:42] <W0OTM> MrCraig: very cool
[19:42] <MrCraig> hmm, ring of foam... I like that idea. You see the camera sits nicely up against the edge and is held in place by the foam that I'm using inside the box - to put a foam tunnel on the front is another option.
[19:42] <W0OTM> Im tempted to do another trashbag launch this weekend
[19:43] <MrCraig> and the foam ring would tidy up that hole.
[19:44] <MrCraig> thanks SpeedEvil - I think I'm going to do just that, but tomorrow evening :-)
[19:44] <MrCraig> W0OTM: where are you? or where would you launch?
[19:45] <W0OTM> Im in Iowa
[19:45] <MrCraig> oh of course...
[19:45] <MrCraig> I knew that
[19:45] <W0OTM> :)
[19:45] <W0OTM> las time I did it from my driveway
[19:45] <W0OTM> did you see the youtube video of it?
[19:46] <MrCraig> No I didn't - have a link?
[19:46] <W0OTM> sure, hold on
[19:46] <W0OTM> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP-kY0cNL0s&feature=player_embedded
[19:47] <MrCraig> LOL awesome
[19:48] <griffonbot> @dbsnyder: some info and photos from Explorer Post 632 Flt 2011A (3/26/2011) http://explorersposts.grc.nasa.gov/post632/2011A/ #arhab @arhab [http://twitter.com/dbsnyder/status/53181731091644416]
[19:49] <W0OTM> MrCraig: I got gitty :)
[19:49] <MrCraig> lol Your laugh sais it all
[19:50] <Upu> awesome :)
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[19:52] <n900evil> Well, the true standard would be to require no self-sustaining combustables.
[19:54] <n900evil> That does rule out a large number of materials though.
[19:54] <MrCraig> Talking of combustibles, I'm off to consume a comestible combustible - brb
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[20:08] <mattltm> Im Back :)
[20:08] <mattltm> Miss me?
[20:08] <MrCraig> it was painful mattltm, truely.
[20:08] <MrCraig> I'm back too :)
[20:09] <mattltm> Are you following me?
[20:09] <MrCraig> not unless you visited my balcony and then my bathroom
[20:09] <MrCraig> o.O *looks around*
[20:10] <fsphil> I can confirm from the security cameras, neither of you are following eachother :p
[20:10] <MrCraig> *phew* thanks phil
[20:10] <mattltm> lol.
[20:10] <mattltm> I was kinda hoping.
[20:11] <MrCraig> ok - attention is going to be divided for a while, going to start with a simple sigmoid with back propagation and work from there up.
[20:11] <mattltm> fsphil, not much use to you but 10M is wide open.
[20:12] <fsphil> hehe, the fishing pole fell down today
[20:12] <fsphil> 10m is a pretty quiet band here, will wire up the other antenna
[20:12] <mattltm> Lol. Catch a big one?
[20:13] <fsphil> lol - a pigeon most likely
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[20:14] <Blackover> threre is problem with pressure sensor
[20:15] <Blackover> which one has range 0 - 15 psi?
[20:16] <Blackover> and output 0 - vcc
[20:16] <Blackover> where vcc 5 v
[20:19] <Randomskk> not many will go to 0
[20:19] <Randomskk> well except perhaps differential sensors, depends what you're looking for
[20:22] <Blackover> can't understand difrence between absolute and differential sensors
[20:22] <Blackover> how can we use diff sensor?
[20:30] <fsphil> mattltm, I'm hearing people on 24mhz, nothing on 28mhz
[20:31] <mattltm> 28 is ram jam here :)
[20:31] <mattltm> Right, let's fire up the GPS and see if this antenna has any life in it..
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[20:35] <mattltm> Come on...
[20:35] <mattltm> Yes!
[20:35] <fsphil> lol
[20:35] <mattltm> 3 minutes to get lock, inside, from cold.
[20:36] <fsphil> not bad
[20:36] <mattltm> By george, I think iv'e fixed it :)
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[20:37] <MrCraig> hi jcoxon
[20:38] <MrCraig> and goodbye all - going for sleeps
[20:38] <Blackover> D
[20:38] <jcoxon> evening
[20:38] <griffonbot> Received email: andrewallan <andrewscottallan@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Re: Fwd: Uploading to spacenear.us from fldigi"
[20:38] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[20:42] <andrewallan> oops apologies for the double post on the mailing list - i assumed my first post had failed
[20:43] <jcoxon> andrewallan, oh its just moderated
[20:43] <jcoxon> as we got loads of spam once
[20:43] <jcoxon> and i didn't check my emails till just now
[20:43] <mattltm> Hi jcoxon
[20:43] <andrewallan> ok
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[20:47] <MNSP> hello all :)
[20:48] <mattltm> Hi MNSP
[20:48] <MNSP> any further thoughts on gps module?
[20:52] <mattltm> MNSP, does it have to be the Falcom?
[20:52] <MNSP> lol, no I meant your gps module that wasn't working, any thoughts on a fix?
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[20:54] GeekShadow (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) joined #highaltitude.
[20:54] <mattltm> Ah! all fixed :)
[20:55] <MNSP> Excellent :)
[20:55] <MNSP> what was wrong with it?
[20:55] <mattltm> The GPS antenna?
[20:56] <mattltm> Someone had replaced the standard coax with some larger size rg58.
[20:56] <MNSP> yes
[20:57] <mattltm> I think the cable had flexed and the centre core had lifted the track from the pcb.
[20:57] <mattltm> I stripped out the coax, cleaned the pcb and installed some standard thin coax.
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[20:58] <mattltm> cleaned off the end of the lifted track and bridged it across the centre coax.
[20:58] <MNSP> Cool and it all works
[20:58] <MNSP> ?
[20:58] <mattltm> Just installed in on top of my test payload and seems to be working good.
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[20:59] <MNSP> oh god, theres more than one type of co-ax? I didn't even know there was more than one type of polystyrene untill on here
[20:59] <mattltm> took 3 minutes to get a lock from cold, inside.
[20:59] <mattltm> lol
[20:59] Action: MNSP has led a sheltered life
[21:01] <mattltm> Lol.
[21:01] <mattltm> Ping Shuffty
[21:01] <MNSP> is this for you to mess with or is it going up?
[21:01] <Shuffty> Hey mattltm :-)
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[21:02] <mattltm> May go up with fsphil one day but for now it is used to test my HABAT project.
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[21:02] <mattltm> Shuffty, Just seen your question form earlier...
[21:02] <mattltm> Yes, the project is going well.
[21:02] <Shuffty> Which one :-) I've asked a few today! lol
[21:03] <Shuffty> Ah - the HABAT question...
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[21:03] <mattltm> <Shuffty> @mattltm Hows the HABAT coming along? Just been reading through your blog - it seems like a great idea!
[21:04] <mattltm> I have just finished building a simple payload that works the same as the standard type that everyone flies.
[21:04] <mattltm> So now I can start on the actual tracking system.
[21:05] <mattltm> I am hoping that the dl-fldigi team will build RPC into the program for the next release so that HABAT can pull the lat/long and alt straight from dl-fldigi.
[21:05] <Shuffty> What is the payload you've put together - arduino/gps/ntx2/etc?
[21:06] <Shuffty> Your blog makes for some good reading.
[21:06] <mattltm> Yup. Arduino Uno, Venus GPS, NTX2.
[21:06] <mattltm> Thanks. I think its a bit crap!
[21:06] <mattltm> lol
[21:06] <Shuffty> We all think current things are crap - but in 20 yrs time you'll look back on it with pride!
[21:07] <mattltm> lol.
[21:07] <Shuffty> Whats the venus gps like?
[21:08] <mattltm> Nice.
[21:08] <mattltm> Fast lock time.
[21:08] <Shuffty> http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=518
[21:08] <Shuffty> that one?
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[21:09] <mattltm> Yes. That's where it came from to. There was an altitude limit but the new firmware has solved that, maybe.
[21:09] <mattltm> Since my payload is not going up, it dosent matter.
[21:09] <mattltm> However, I hope that fsphil is going to fly it with one of his once I have finished using it for testing.
[21:10] <fsphil> indeedy
[21:10] <Shuffty> Am I right in thinking that the venus uses less power too??
[21:10] <mattltm> That way we can find out if it works.
[21:10] <mattltm> 28mA
[21:10] <Shuffty> Cant you short rant test it with a part balloon? :-)
[21:10] <mattltm> lol
[21:11] <Shuffty> rant - range
[21:11] <MNSP> lol, rant... thats where I come in
[21:11] <Shuffty> part = party... been a long day!
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[21:12] <Shuffty> Hey quick question about dl-fidigi - in all the guides I've read on ukhas, the layout looks completely different to what I currently see - is it a newer version, or am I missing something?
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[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:13] <MNSP> hi lunar_lander
[21:13] <mattltm> Newer version and it has 2 modes.
[21:13] <fsphil> Shuffty, yes there's been a few changes since those pictures where taken -- the rig control on the left mostly
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> hi Shuffty
[21:13] <Shuffty> Hey Lunar_lander! :-)
[21:13] <fsphil> hiya lunar
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> hi fsphil
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> I got one for oyu
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> *you
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> one HAB flyer in America is Paul Verhage
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[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> and he wrote a 680 pg ebook on HAB, but you can see that it was written back in 2005
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> because he writes "CCD digital cameras are still too expensive"
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> and the sentence I like best
[21:14] <fsphil> haha
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> "You need a lot of memory, so make sure to have an 64 MB (!) SD card"
[21:15] <fsphil> Huge!
[21:15] <Shuffty> lol :-)
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> when I compare that to the USB stick I take to uni every day
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> it is as big as an SD and houses 8 GB
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> technology really progressed since 2005
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:16] <MNSP> don't want to look stupid (again today) but aren't ccd digi cameras expensive still?
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[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> I think when he wrote that, he had digital cameras in general in mind
[21:17] <MNSP> ah I see
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> because the text then goes on on how to use 35 mm cameras
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> what is "120 film"?
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> he wrote about that as well
[21:17] <MNSP> iso??
[21:17] <MNSP> I think thats what that is
[21:18] <Shuffty> 120 film is a large format film - like 35 but bigger.... for medium format cameras...
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:18] <Shuffty> Was it a sarcastic question .. :-)
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> no, because I had thought
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> is 120 like 120mm?
[21:18] <Shuffty> :-)
[21:18] <Shuffty> yes
[21:18] <fsphil> the canon A560 has a CCD sensor
[21:18] <MNSP> live and learn
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> he only writes that 120 makes better pictures but is more expensive
[21:19] <MNSP> balls!!! I went and got an a480
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[21:19] <fsphil> it's CCD too :)
[21:19] <MNSP> really?
[21:19] <MNSP> WooHoo
[21:20] <MNSP> cake in the post
[21:20] <fsphil> well so wikipedia says ,, and it *never* lies
[21:20] <MNSP> lol
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> why is the normal 35 mm film called "135"?
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> so 120 is like 20 mm?
[21:21] <russss> 120 is actually ~55mm wide, IIRC
[21:21] <russss> it doesn't refer to the size
[21:21] <russss> it's just an arbitrary number
[21:22] <russss> there's 220 film too, which is the same size as 120 but longer
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> and 16 mm is common for movies right?
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> or was common
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:22] <Shuffty> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/135_film
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[21:23] <Shuffty> 135 is just a name - not a measurement. :-) ... for a moment I thought I was going to look stupid.
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah and as I said
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> 16 mm for movies right?
[21:24] <russss> yeah
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> that always interested me
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[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> when we like watched "Falwty Towers" in school
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> the indoor scenes were clear, but when John Cleese got out in the front yard, it looked like it was filmed with a camcorder
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[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> so they maybe filmed on film and outdoors with video
[21:26] <russss> according to IMDB, you're right but the wrong way round :)
[21:26] <russss> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072500/technical
[21:26] <russss> I'd noticed that but never really thought about it.
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool :)
[21:27] <fsphil> outside was film .. there was a good bit in monty python about it :)
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:28] <MNSP> fsphil, canon concurs with wikipedia its a 1/2.3 type CCD
[21:29] <fsphil> excellent
[21:30] <MNSP> but not sure quiet what a 1/2.3 type is?
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[21:30] <MNSP> *not quiet sure
[21:31] <MNSP> googled, sorted
[21:32] <MNSP> http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/sensor_sizes_01.htm
[21:32] <mattltm> Right. Bed time..
[21:33] <MNSP> wwell you're a bit forward
[21:33] <MNSP> :P
[21:34] <mattltm> Lol!
[21:34] <mattltm> Byeee....
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[21:39] <fsphil> more mercury pics: http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/image.php?gallery_id=2&image_id=434
[21:39] <Randomskk> looks like the moon
[21:39] <fsphil> http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/index.php
[21:39] <fsphil> does!
[21:39] <russss> obligatory "that's no moon"
[21:42] <MNSP> took me a minute to work out the referrence there Russ :)
[21:42] <russss> psh
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[21:43] bhammet (~hellno@203.122.224.49) left irc:
[21:44] <fsphil> ooch
[21:44] Action: LazyLeopard took all of 0.3 seconds to get it...
[21:45] <MNSP> yeah yeah yeah :P
[21:45] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[21:45] <MNSP> but only after I pointed out it was a ref :P :P
[21:46] <LazyLeopard> ...but usually hears it when Mimas is pictured...
[21:46] <fsphil> yea
[21:46] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[21:46] <MNSP> astronomer ?
[21:47] <LazyLeopard> ...and SF fan, yes.
[21:48] <MNSP> fave sf?
[21:49] <LazyLeopard> Heh. There's the inevitable reference on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimas_%28moon%29
[21:49] <LazyLeopard> Depends what I've read recently.
[21:49] <LazyLeopard> Likewise with fantasy.
[21:50] <russss> woah, this is some amazing timelapse http://vimeo.com/21294655
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[21:52] <MNSP> buffer damn you, buffer!!!
[21:52] <russss> yeah it's buffering for me too
[21:54] <Shuffty> I keep having to log in and out - is that the buffering your referring too?
[21:55] <MNSP> I meant for the vimeo video Shuffty
[21:55] <MNSP> but yes I have to do that to with my irc client thingy
[21:55] <Shuffty> Doh - I'll just be over here if you need me... [whistle]
[21:55] <Hibby> seeing as I've got all this strathab stuff done, I might be doing my own in summer. Thinking about an sstv link :
[21:55] <Hibby> :)
[21:55] <fsphil> the video's been APOD'ed
[21:58] <fsphil> sstv from a balloon is neat
[21:58] <Hibby> biggest issue is getting a suitable camera, im thinking
[21:59] <Hibby> equally, though, if all goes well I've have 2 months in the US in summer
[22:00] <fsphil> there are uart cameras, that return a small jpeg image
[22:00] <fsphil> or smaller raw images
[22:00] <MNSP> oh yeah? small raw images?
[22:01] <fsphil> 160x120 :)
[22:01] <Hibby> sweet
[22:01] <Hibby> then it's a case of understanding how sstv works and implementing it in software
[22:02] <Hibby> I'm half tempted to do everything in python on a bifferboard
[22:03] <Randomskk> o/
[22:03] <Hibby> hola
[22:03] <Randomskk> python is obviously the way forward for everything
[22:04] <fsphil> noooo
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil btw
[22:12] <Lunar_Lander> how do you do SSTV when you are not allowed to use ham frequencies?
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[22:12] <fsphil> same way we do rtty -- with the license free module
[22:14] <fsphil> sstv is an FM signal -- brighter parts have a higher frequency than darker bits (or the other way around, not sure)
[22:15] <fsphil> so with the NTX2 you just vary the voltage with the the right timing
[22:15] <fsphil> -the
[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> can this be done like
[22:19] <Lunar_Lander> that the GPS data comes down and also (from time to time) a picture?
[22:20] <fsphil> yes - just instead of a varying voltage, just use two
[22:21] <Hibby> Or you could if you've got the power, overlay gps data on the picture
[22:21] <fsphil> memory too
[22:21] <Hibby> aye
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:22] Action: SpeedEvil finds it kinda silly we're talking about memiory, when a gigabit RAM chip is $2.
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> (and I know it's not that easy)
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil did you read my comment on Paul Verhage's book :)?
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> with the 64 MB SD card
[22:23] <Hibby> another reason I want to bifferboard it :)
[22:23] <Hibby> that and the usb support
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> No.
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> I wish someone'd do a linuxuino.
[22:24] <Hibby> SpeedEvil: what features would you want?
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Say 8M ROM (or SD boot) 8M RAM (more would be nice) lots of GPIO, reasonable power consumption, bifferboardish or cheaper price.
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> SpeedEvil that PDF book by Verhage about HABing suggests using a 64 MB SD for capturing all photos xD
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> (the book was written in 2005)
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:25] <Hibby> fair game
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> I just came across the invoice for my firstr 386/20 PC.
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> Insane price.
[22:28] <LazyLeopard> ...especially when you adjust currency values for inflation. ;)
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> It's like 5 grand in current money
[22:29] Action: SpeedEvil wonders if it's actually possible to buy a 5 grand 'normal' PC.
[22:29] <SpeedEvil> Where normal does not include something like a 100TB raid, and 40" monitors.
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> I think for that money you get one of those "gamer" machines + casemod today
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> or
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> about 10 normal PCs
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> You can bling it up with stupid overclocking, and hacked together piles of GPUs.
[22:31] <Hibby> can do that for well less than 5k though
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> True.
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> This is part of the reason I hate the 'we will use more resources forever' people.
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> I ask them to guess how many candles they'd need per year to light their home to their current levels.
[22:35] <LazyLeopard> My first computer was 250 quid for a bare board & keyboard, in 1980.
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> Oh - my first computer was a ZX81.
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> My first PC was the above.
[22:38] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[22:39] Action: LazyLeopard remembers wondering whether he should have waited for the ZX80...
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> The awesome keyboard!
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:44] <Shuffty> My first computer was BBC Micro... :-) .... can anybody point me in the right direct for information on aerials for the payload... cant seem to find anything - or more to the point I'm searching for the wrong information.
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> copper wire
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> 17.2 cm long
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> or wait
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> let me get the figure again
[22:44] <Shuffty> :-)
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> 17.25
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> that is lambda/4 for the 434 MHz
[22:45] <Shuffty> in any design / layout ?
[22:46] <Randomskk> hang on, photo
[22:46] <Randomskk> also more like 16cm
[22:47] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4413273403/
[22:47] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4413279333/
[22:47] <Randomskk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/4414039114/
[22:47] <Randomskk> five ~16cm wires
[22:47] <Randomskk> four go to the ground connection and spread out radially, perpendicular to the driven wire and on a plane
[22:47] <Randomskk> the driven one goes through the middle without touching them and points down
[22:48] <Randomskk> colourful plastic straws give +6dB power
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> the straws give amplification?!
[22:48] <Randomskk> why do you think we use them? :P
[22:49] <fsphil> lol
[22:49] <fsphil> I'm going to KFC this weekend to get a straw. no other reason ;)
[22:49] <Shuffty> Fabulous - just what I wanted. Thankyou!
[22:49] <Shuffty> :-)
[22:50] <Hibby> Randomskk: I'm planning on doing something similar in design for the strathab lot in their next launches
[22:50] <Randomskk> Hibby: it works really well and is also really simple, win:win?
[22:51] <fsphil> will be interesting to compare the signal quality
[22:51] <Randomskk> it has a basically ideal radiation pattern for HAB - almost all downwards with main lobes roughly where you want for max range to listeners
[22:51] <Randomskk> physically is a really easy size, simple to construct
[22:51] <fsphil> the best reception I've had here was one of rjharrison's launches, and it was that style of antenna
[22:51] <Randomskk> and even perpendicular as I've drawn is near enough 50 ohms
[22:51] <fsphil> that and alien
[22:52] <Randomskk> actually the ground plane radials should be at like 45 degrees to the horizontal. or even more? to give 50 ohms
[22:52] <Randomskk> but it's not like it matters in practise
[22:52] <fsphil> just make sure the main element doesn't fall off :p
[22:54] <Randomskk> :P
[22:55] <fsphil> see that's what I did wrong last time - no straw
[22:55] <Randomskk> people think I'm joking
[22:57] <fsphil> I don't :) I'm pretty certain it would have worked better with it, would have kept it ridged. I think all the flopping about's what killed it
[22:57] <Hibby> Randomskk: do you use the plastic coating of the conductor to insulate it from the metal plate?
[22:58] <Randomskk> yes
[22:58] <Randomskk> in that case
[22:58] <Randomskk> I have seen much better antennas constructed from a coax cable plug
[22:59] <Randomskk> you can solder your coax from the radio to one end
[22:59] <Randomskk> and on the other, instead of plugging into something you solder your driven element to the middle and radials around the edge
[22:59] <Randomskk> the one on flickr there was a very quick hack job :P
[22:59] <Shuffty> :-)
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> In some ways, it's not so important.
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> In most cases, the signal is not lost because of insufficient antenna gain.
[23:00] <Randomskk> indeed
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> It's lost because the payload went behind terrain.
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> 3 or even 6dB isn't going to make a difference.
[23:01] <Hibby> the strathab antenna was a wire dipole I threw together as they gave me so little notice of their launch, so it wasn't ideal
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> It makes a difference for people at rextreme range.
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[23:03] <fsphil> which isn't really a priority unless you're flying long distance
[23:04] <Hibby> aye, but we're pretty far north of most listeners available
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> And for people at extreme distance, it's generally not important, as they are at best fun to have confirm it.
[23:04] <fsphil> Hibby, was that dipole set horizontally or vertically
[23:04] <Hibby> for the next launch I'm going to try and get the local ARSes involved
[23:05] <fsphil> I'd get out my yagi but all these launches are during the week when I'm at work
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> Because at extreme range, the curvature of the earth cuts them off well before landing, so predictions made as the payload falls past 10km with no info under it aren't that ideally useful.
[23:05] <Hibby> fsphil: Horizontally, I think. I left it up to them to decide. Not my best move, but not my project and I was grumpy with them at that point.
[23:05] <fsphil> lol
[23:05] <fsphil> how many teams are there?
[23:07] <Hibby> 3 in total. 2 consisting of purely mech engineering students, whom I've been drafted in to assist, and 1 of Electrical/Mechanical Eng degree students, who've been pretty awesome, but the task is suited to the cross disciplinary nature of their degree
[23:08] <Hibby> also, I'm biased towards them as that's my degree
[23:09] <Hibby> :p
[23:09] <fsphil> so we'll be expecting good things from them ;-)
[23:10] <Shuffty> Randomskk - for the aerial you described earlier, is there a specific wire / gauge?
[23:10] <Hibby> they're the ones with the website I posted the other day
[23:10] <Randomskk> Shuffty: not really. we just used some wire.
[23:10] <Hibby> trying out a zepp antenna with them, will be curious to see how it goes - test launch on Monday/Wednesday from what I hear
[23:11] <fsphil> excellent
[23:11] <Shuffty> Where are they launching from?
[23:12] <Hibby> Cumnock, Ayrshire, Scotland
[23:12] <Hibby> I'll be about to use my station too
[23:12] <Hibby> http://personal.strath.ac.uk/james.tosh/ <== relevant website
[23:12] <Hibby> they're the cause of all this unusual data strings chat on the mailing list
[23:14] <Shuffty> :-)
[23:15] <Shuffty> I have a feeling I wont be able to track that one - a little too far away! :-)
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> Quite close to me, but I have no radio.
[23:15] <SpeedEvil> Well - none that'll do 433.
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[23:15] <Shuffty> My radio arrives in the morning.. :-)
[23:18] <Hibby> 'sall good. I should be able to use the satellite station, seeing as I run the thing, and can clock the day in as "productive low-power testing of satellite station"
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[23:18] <Hibby> when it'll really be "nice coffee, eve and some balloon listening"
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[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah Hibby
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> always good to write stuff like that in the lab book :D
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> I actually began one because of feynman
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> he said that he never wrote down what he did in his home lab when he was a kid and that he thinks that this was not good
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> If you're feynman.
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> well I'm not him
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> but I have so many balloon ideas as well
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> and I don't want to run the risk forgetting a good one
[23:43] <n900evil> Ideas are cheap IMO.
[23:43] <n900evil> Got way too many.
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> our good public TV here has a kid's channel
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> and they now made a "digital future" serial
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> which is like trivial to the tenth power
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> because the protagonist is some kid with huge earphones with yellow pads and a spiral wire (and he has those earphones around his neck all the time, even in an episode where he gets out of bed in the middle of the night)
[23:46] Action: n900evil remebers Tomorrows World.
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> but as far as I got it, TW was far more advanced
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> here they say
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> "First, log in at the video platform"
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> and you can see that they are on youtube, only with the logos removed
[23:47] <n900evil> There is nothing like it in the UK now. (TW)
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> besides, that kid has three desks, with two screens on the one side and one on the opposite
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> (in one episode he makes a clip called "Lord of the Nerds")
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> *facepalm*
[23:49] <n900evil> Well - http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/material
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> best is
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> that third screen is connected to a laptop on the other table
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> so he types into the laptop and has to look 90° to the leftr
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> -r
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> only an idiot would setup his PC like that
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the link n900evil
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> I do actually have my keyboard and screen at 90 degrees, coincidentally.
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> But I'm lying down with the keyboard on my lap, and the screen is to my right.
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> actualyl
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> *actually
[23:57] <Lunar_Lander> that guy has a keyboard in front of the screen as well
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> but when he is typing, he types into that laptop
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[00:00] --- Thu Mar 31 2011