highaltitude.log.20110329

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[00:24] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Trying to tune a 1/2wav dipole, and make 1wav horiz loop ant. Also workin on HFGPS & commctrlr msg queueing firmware #arhab #wssb1 [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/52526425344983040]
[00:26] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Appear to have resolved HF GPS issue- http://j.mp/gMKPxd That's precisely where it sits in a bush next to the LVL1 hackerspace! #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/52526928413990912]
[00:27] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: HF GPS issue likely was the GPS board was pressed right up against HF TX board. Just moved it to the side and works now #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/52527172895784960]
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[00:47] <griffonbot> Received email: Alexei Karpenko <alexei@karpenko.ca> "[UKHAS] spacenear.us tracker now embeddable"
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[03:28] <NigelMoby> Yey netsplit
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[03:29] <Zuph> and we're back :-p
[03:29] <NigelMoby> Hey zuphster
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[03:30] <Zuph> Late night for you, NigelMoby
[03:30] <NigelMoby> Can't sleep, gf snoring grrr
[03:31] <Zuph> hah
[03:31] <NigelMoby> If I had a clothes peg in here.......lol
[03:31] <Zuph> Unfortunate!
[03:31] <Zuph> Hopefully she isn't a light sleeper :-p
[03:32] <NigelMoby> She could sleep through ww3
[03:34] <Zuph> That can come in handy sometimes. My GF wakes up if a breathe funny.
[03:34] <Zuph> s/a/I/
[03:34] <NigelMoby> Lol oh dear
[03:35] <NigelMoby> Speaking of late... u still at lvl1?
[03:35] <Zuph> Yep
[03:36] <Zuph> Dan and Tim just stepped out to get some materials to build a ghetto quad helix
[03:36] <natrium42> is dan working around the clock?
[03:36] <natrium42> he neglects irc :P
[03:36] <Zuph> I'm afraid it's getting pretty close to it.
[03:36] <Zuph> I don't think he gets more than 4 hours of sleep on average.
[03:37] <natrium42> eek
[03:37] <NigelMoby> Dam, he's gonna burnout
[03:37] <NigelMoby> Ello natrium
[03:38] <Zuph> hah, well, only a few weeks left in the season. Not much left to burnout from.
[03:38] <natrium42> hi NigelMoby
[03:39] <Zuph> natrium42: Sweet job on the embedable spacenear, btw
[03:39] <natrium42> ty
[03:39] <NigelMoby> True, how's weather looking for possible launches?
[03:39] <natrium42> you could actually pull it over to your server, if you want
[03:40] <Zuph> natrium42: At this point, I am not going to touch the website until something breaks, or the project's over :-p
[03:40] <natrium42> XD
[03:40] <NigelMoby> Lol
[03:42] <NigelMoby> Dam the hamsters awake
[03:43] <Zuph> That a euphamism?
[03:43] <Zuph> *euphemism
[03:44] <Zuph> Revised thesis all day, spelling and grammar gone
[03:44] <NigelMoby> Lol noo we have a pet hamster
[03:45] <NigelMoby> Funny lol thing, cats scared of him :/
[03:45] <NigelMoby> Lil *
[03:46] <Zuph> hah
[03:47] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: @Dently you bet! Currently shopping for VHF helical antenna parts at Meijer (posterboard and aluminum tape!) #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/52577506657701888]
[03:47] <Zuph> Ah, Walmart must not have had it :-p
[03:47] <NigelMoby> Chews on the bars of his cage for hours, you'd have thought after a few months he'd get the hint he wasn't gonna chew his way out...
[03:48] <Zuph> Well, they aren't the smartest rodents.
[03:48] <Zuph> Had one as a kid, ran its legs off. Seriously, ran until its legs would bleed.
[03:49] <NigelMoby> Lol Blimey, this 1 doesnt seem to like his wheel much.
[03:52] <NigelMoby> Ah well sleep attempt number 2, cya later dudes, gd luck with that antenna zuphster.
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[06:09] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: Yes Virginia, there is a quadrifilar helix for 149MHz. Polarized? Yep, right handed circular! Will it work? #arhab http://t.co/ynZQelo [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/52613380648869888]
[06:18] <SamSilver> shuu nice and light
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[09:02] <mattltm_alt> Hi all :)
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[09:09] <mattltm-alt> Nice antenna :)
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[09:17] <fsphil> Mmm antenna
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[09:54] <NigelMoby> It be raining .. boo
[09:54] <D00berry> bah.
[09:54] <D00berry> just overcast here.
[09:55] <fsphil> cloudy here too
[09:55] <NigelMoby> I can send you some rain, I don't mind
[09:56] <fsphil> our plants would thank you, but I wouldn't :p
[09:57] <NigelMoby> Lol dam
[09:57] <mattltm-alt> Nice and sunny here :)
[10:01] <NigelMoby> No fair matts nicked all the sun!
[10:02] <fsphil> lovely, forecast for here: http://i.imgur.com/OtHwR.png
[10:07] <NigelMoby> Ooo that's a bit cack :/
[10:15] <mattltm-alt> Ah ha. The sun is are all for me!
[10:18] <Hibby> testing with one of the other HAB groups at the Uni. We have 3.
[10:18] <Hibby> I'm impressed with this lot.
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[11:30] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman <jon@jonsowman.com> "[UKHAS] Fwd: Uploading to spacenear.us from fldigi"
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[11:44] Action: Hibby parties in the corner
[11:44] <fsphil> hehe
[11:45] <Hibby> the strathab 1 footage is pretty cool. seems a bit unstable in flight, though.
[11:50] <fsphil> did it carry a video camera or just photographic?
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[11:53] <Hibby> video, to check if all the functions worked
[11:57] <fsphil> nice
[11:57] <fsphil> I was looking at a recording of the signal yesterday, it was drifting about quite a bit - and seemed a bit on the weak side
[12:07] <Hibby> Aye, I'm dubious about the insulation in the payload, it's quite duck-tape heavy. Also, transmitting into a simple wire dipole, nothing complicated.
[12:13] <fsphil> so there's other teams flying there soon?
[12:14] <Hibby> Aye, we've got 3 groups in total. One group focussing on getting as high as possible, another focussing on measuring as much as they can on a set budget.
[12:14] <Hibby> The second group were on the mailing list this morning... see their website (http://personal.strath.ac.uk/james.tosh/)
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[12:53] <jgrahamc> Who do I need to talk to to get the GAGA-1 telemetry format supported by dl-fldigi and the tracker?
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[13:01] <fsphil> most likely jonsowman
[13:01] <jgrahamc> Thanks
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[13:04] <m1x10> Hi all
[13:04] <gb73d> hi
[13:05] <fsphil> hihihi
[13:05] <gb73d> n e balloons due up ?
[13:05] <m1x10> I just received my first flight system from seeedstudio :P
[13:05] <m1x10> looks lol !
[13:05] <m1x10> this week I wait for the 2nd version of the flight system
[13:08] <fsphil> apex is next I think gb73d, in the next week or so
[13:08] <gb73d> cheers om
[13:09] <gb73d> will be ready by then, am having bedroom deco done, front room is a tip atm
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[13:15] <fsphil> need to get ready myself, hoping to get a preamp by then
[13:15] <fsphil> but they've been out of stock for a while now
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[13:16] <gb73d> yes i think jap probs will affcet electronics supplys sooner
[13:17] <fsphil> aye
[13:19] <jgrahamc> I'm hoping that the GAGA-1 flight will be soon also. Waiting for winds to cooperate.
[13:20] <NigeyS> Low levels of radioactive iodine believed to be from the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan have been detected in air samples in Glasgow.
[13:20] <NigeyS> hmm
[13:20] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[13:20] <gb73d> its here then, i heard iceland, stay indoors and dont go out in the rain
[13:20] <SpeedEvil> I hate stricrly correct, but misleading headlines.
[13:21] <SpeedEvil> Which when you do the actual marths means they found 8 atoms.
[13:21] <gb73d> yeah 1 is enuff !
[13:22] <fsphil> low level indeed :)
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[13:23] <gb73d> geiger counter on baloon might be useful now
[13:23] <fsphil> I don't think it would detect it - unless it's silly sensitive
[13:23] <fsphil> certainly not over the background levels at high altitude
[13:24] <NigeyS> funny thing is, ive had that stuff medically to kill off my thyroid!
[13:24] <gb73d> k i thort it would be off the scale lik in the movies
[13:24] <NigeyS> caused the evacuation of the local steel works..lmao
[13:24] <gb73d> :)
[13:31] <m1x10> http://imagebin.org/145501
[13:31] <m1x10> :p
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[13:35] <jgrahamc> Nice m1x10. Do you have a web site detailing this?
[13:36] <m1x10> nop
[13:36] <m1x10> sorry
[13:36] <m1x10> I will make a blog during the summer seaosn
[13:37] <m1x10> season*
[13:37] <jgrahamc> Looks cool though. Thanks.
[13:38] <jgrahamc> Where did you get the board made?
[13:39] <m1x10> seeedstudio.com
[13:39] <jgrahamc> Thanks
[13:40] <jgrahamc> Did you design the board?
[13:40] <m1x10> 10 pcbs 10x10cm = 40$
[13:40] <m1x10> yes
[13:40] <jgrahamc> That's a pretty good deal.
[13:41] <m1x10> china :)
[13:41] <m1x10> radio active boards :)
[13:45] <gb73d> hello
[13:48] <gb73d> bbl
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[13:49] <fsphil> well you know the radioactivity will help your solder flow :)
[13:50] <Laurenceb_> i want to make an ion drift chamber
[13:51] <jonsowman> afternoon guys
[13:51] <jonsowman> jgrahamc: want an XML for the tracker done?
[13:52] <jgrahamc> I suspect that's the answer to my original question. What do I need to do to get fldigi etc. to understand what GAGA-1 is transmitting?
[13:52] <jonsowman> are you using the UKHAS standard protocol?
[13:52] <jonsowman> $$payload,ticks,time,lat,long,alt... etc?
[13:52] <m1x10> fsphil :p
[13:53] <jgrahamc> Something very close to that. I have a couple of temperature values, I don't have a bearing and I have one special field.
[13:53] <jonsowman> ok great
[13:53] <jonsowman> have you got a couple of example strings?
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[13:55] <jgrahamc> I can grab some tonight when I boot the thing up.
[13:55] <jonsowman> ok, I'll need a couple of those
[13:55] <jgrahamc> I can easily switch things around to be very close to the UKHAS format.
[13:55] <jgrahamc> Can I define the XML myself?\
[13:56] <jonsowman> you can, but you'll need someone to upload it to the listener server for you (myself, jcoxon, others...)
[13:56] <jonsowman> http://robertharrison.org/listen/
[13:56] <jonsowman> nova18.xml is a fairly bog-standard one
[13:58] <jgrahamc> Got it. I'll prepare something for GAGA-1 and get it to you.
[13:58] <jonsowman> cool
[13:58] <jonsowman> :)
[13:59] <jonsowman> just shout if you need a hand
[13:59] <jonsowman> on another topic, has anyone tried running an atmega168 or similar at 16MHz on 3V3?
[13:59] <jgrahamc> Thanks.
[13:59] <jonsowman> i've seen some people do it on the net without issue, but it is technically out of specifications
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[14:08] <NigeyS> ive got a 328 running at 16 with 3v3 jon
[14:11] <fsphil> 10mhz is my top speed here, at any voltage
[14:11] <jonsowman> NigeyS: oh great, all working ok?
[14:11] <jonsowman> using a crystal osc?
[14:12] <NigeyS> seems to be working fine on a breadboard, no issues at all
[14:12] <NigeyS> crystal osc yup
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[14:12] <jonsowman> excellent :) thanks
[14:13] <imrcly> the arduino fio runs at 16 at 3v3 it is a 328
[14:13] <imrcly> 3.3v*
[14:13] <NigeyS> omg
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[14:13] <jonsowman> imrcly: its stock clock is 8MHz
[14:13] <jonsowman> http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardFio
[14:13] <NigeyS> im on the front page of the local paper..noooooooooooo
[14:13] <Dan-K2VOL> oh?
[14:14] <NigeyS> something for mums work / mothers day Dan nothing major, big family photo we had done on the weekend
[14:14] <fsphil> "Have you seen this man?"
[14:14] <NigeyS> lmao noooooo
[14:14] <imrcly> nm i am thinking of the lilypad
[14:14] <NigeyS> its a small photo, then in a seperate pullout its the size of the front page :(
[14:14] <imrcly> the new one uses a crystal
[14:15] <jonsowman> imrcly: 8MHz too no?
[14:15] <imrcly> pretty sure the one i have has a crystal
[14:16] <imrcly> no it doesn either
[14:16] <jgrahamc> Which paper NigeyS?
[14:16] <NigeyS> south wales echo
[14:16] <imrcly> well thats dumb going to have to add one
[14:17] <jonsowman> hehe
[14:17] <imrcly> it has a crystal
[14:17] <jgrahamc> Doubt I'm going to see a copy of that in London :-)
[14:17] <NigeyS> lol ill put a pic up later
[14:18] <jgrahamc> Speaking of Wales, did you see the "Newport State of Mind" video spoofing Jay-Z's "Empire State of Mind"?
[14:18] <GW8RAK> The North Wales one by Chris Moyles was better.
[14:18] <NigeyS> yup, that was class..lol
[14:19] <GW8RAK> Almost sounded better than the original
[14:19] <imrcly> looking at the schematic they put an external resonator on it but only used an 8 that is stupid
[14:19] <NigeyS> lol
[14:19] <NigeyS> imrcly, on the lilypad ?
[14:19] <imrcly> yeah
[14:19] <NigeyS> weird
[14:19] <imrcly> the chip already does internal 8
[14:19] <jonsowman> imrcly: i was thinking that
[14:20] <NigeyS> yeah thought so, i have a 168 here with lilypad bootloader thats using the int 8mhz
[14:20] <imrcly> that is why i was thinking it was 16
[14:20] <jonsowman> yeah
[14:22] <Laurenceb_> how come lilipad doesnt get fried
[14:22] <imrcly> most IC are waterproof
[14:23] <fsphil> external might be more stable?
[14:25] <imrcly> Zuph: any idea why would they have an external 8mhz crystal on something that already does 8mhz internal?
[14:26] <imrcly> or is it like how the fio doesn't pin out the xbee control pins
[14:26] <GW8RAK> Sometimes the internal signal is derived from a resonator, not a crystal which is more accurate and stable.
[14:26] <imrcly> that makes sense then
[14:27] <GW8RAK> Or the internal one is a multiplication which may not be accurate enough for time critical stuff such as data rates etc
[14:27] <Zuph> imrcly: It's stability
[14:28] <Zuph> The internal one is a simple RC oscillator. It's usually accurate *enough* for things like UARTs, and it can be calibrated on some chips, but a real crystal solves those problems handily.
[14:29] <fsphil> points :)
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[14:36] <imrcly> we are making the tvirus antenna
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[14:41] <fsphil> lol
[14:42] <fsphil> give me warning before you fly it .. I need to get to my underground bunker
[14:47] <NigeyS> mm bcaon and beans on toast, now that's a proper lunch!
[14:47] <NigeyS> bacon*
[14:50] <griffonbot> Received email: Alexei Karpenko <alexei@karpenko.ca> "Re: [UKHAS] Fwd: Uploading to spacenear.us from fldigi"
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[14:51] <imrcly> you can tell when the space has internet problems
[14:53] <NigeyS> brad broke it! *hides* :P
[14:56] <W0OTM> Hello World
[14:57] <m1x10> shit! just red that leader of naval NATO forces is greek :p damn! the lybians will now bomb Crete !
[14:57] <NigeyS> lol m1x10
[14:57] <NigeyS> hey W0OTM
[14:58] <W0OTM> im trying to crack the neighbors WEP wifi network
[14:58] <NigeyS> m1x10, i wouldnt worry, i dont think libya have the capability to bomb their way out of a paper bag right now
[14:58] <SamSilver> Welcome W0otm
[14:58] <NigeyS> lol W0OTM slow progress ?
[14:59] <W0OTM> its been grinding for about an hours now
[14:59] <W0OTM> :)
[14:59] <NigeyS> i love finding neighbours who haven't changed their default router password.. great fun
[14:59] <W0OTM> LOL
[15:00] <NigeyS> oops did i say that out loud ;)
[15:02] <fsphil> or no password -- though haven't seen that in ages now
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> I have a router with no password.
[15:03] <SpeedEvil> Of course - it isn't actually hooked up to anything at all.
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[15:04] <fsphil> I did for a while, just displayed a default page "There is no web here"
[15:05] <NigeyS> lol SpeedEvil that doesnt count!
[15:05] <fsphil> it was actually a pretty popular page at one point :)
[15:05] Action: NigeyS hacks phils router
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[15:06] <fsphil> urg, don't -- it'll probably reboot
[15:06] <NigeyS> lol i thought you got it all nice and stable now ?
[15:06] <fsphil> nah - got a new one but haven't got it setup properly yet
[15:06] <NigeyS> ahh
[15:06] <fsphil> I've all sorts of stuff running on this router
[15:07] <NigeyS> i dread to think!
[15:07] <fsphil> nothing bad :p just ipv6, traffic shaping, that sort of thing
[15:07] <NigeyS> mm ipv6 :D
[15:08] <NigeyS> did you see that MS are buiny up as many free ipv4 addresses as they can get their mitts on ?
[15:08] <NigeyS> buying*
[15:08] <fsphil> it's a good plan
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> LMP7721 looks nice (for an ion drift chamber)
[15:09] <NigeyS> definately, and theyre going for like $12 a block iirc
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> not sure how well ion drift would work on a balloon
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> Is ion drift a form of mass spectrometry?
[15:09] <SpeedEvil> Somewhrere I've got scans of 'time of flight mass spectrometry'
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> could be used as such yes
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking for a particle spectrometer
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> theres lots of interesting stuff you can do
[15:10] <SpeedEvil> you ionise a small puff of inspired gas in a vacuum, and then apply a field, and read out the resultant signal over time to get composition?
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:11] <NigeyS> Ion mobility analysis is a commonly used technique for detecting the presence of explosives, hazardous chemicals and other vapors
[15:11] <NigeyS> sounds fun
[15:11] <Laurenceb_> i was just thinking of an ion chamber for particle detection
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kamkelan/5164321754/in/set-72157625231158363/lightbox/
[15:12] <NigeyS> ooo
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kamkelan/5195980595/ <-thats nicely done too
[15:17] <NigeyS> blimey the theoretical and actual isnt far off at all
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kamkelan/3603051359/#/
[15:18] <GW8RAK> Just come in and saw the bit about ion drift. I did some work on that years ago and we had a "man from the ministry" make enquiries about what we were doing!
[15:18] <GW8RAK> All legitimate of course.
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> heh
[15:19] <NigeyS> lol not THE ministry? :O
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[15:20] <GW8RAK> It was because the MOD were using the same technique for bomb sniffing at airports.
[15:20] <NigeyS> eek, yup that'd certainly get their noses twitching
[15:20] <GW8RAK> But that was exactly the application I'd thought the technique would be useful for.
[15:21] <GW8RAK> So when I asked for some explosive samples etc etc
[15:21] <Laurenceb_> you asked the MOD for explosives samples?
[15:22] <GW8RAK> Yes. It didn't seem strange at the time.
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> heh
[15:22] <NigeyS> omg lol
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> they could get the wrong idea
[15:23] <NigeyS> "here try aoms eof this stuff, we call it C4" .. :D
[15:23] <NigeyS> some*
[15:23] <GW8RAK> I was also the plonker who flew to Korea with samples of barbiturates, opiates and a couple of others.
[15:23] <GW8RAK> Familiarity breeds contempt.
[15:24] <GW8RAK> Couldn't actually sign the declaration about no drugs. Gulp. Suddenly realised what I'd done!
[15:24] <Laurenceb_> heh
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[16:06] <GW8RAK> Been a nice day all day and now I have to cycle home, it starts raining.
[16:07] <fsphil> not so good here unfortunately
[16:07] <fsphil> you have to cycle far?
[16:07] <GW8RAK> About 10 miles tonight
[16:07] <fsphil> that's a fair bit
[16:07] <GW8RAK> At least it's flat and fast.
[16:07] <fsphil> most I've ever done is 8 miles
[16:07] <GW8RAK> A normal commute for me on the way home.
[16:07] <GW8RAK> Normally it's all uphill.
[16:07] <fsphil> urg
[16:08] <GW8RAK> But the weight does come off quickly and I can eat 8 days food every 7.
[16:08] <fsphil> batteries :)
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[16:19] <chembrow> evening all
[16:19] <jgrahamc> hi chembrow
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[16:20] Nick change: GW8RAK_ -> GW8RAK
[16:20] <chembrow> anything happening in the world of HAB today?
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[16:29] <Zuph> So, any bets on how lightweight we can make a quad helix?
[16:30] <Zuph> (for 149mhz)
[16:30] <Zuph> I think 150g.
[16:30] <imrcly> i think we can get away with 3 or 4 supports
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[16:33] <chembrow> I assume you're not referring to the "orthodontic appliance for the upper teeth that is cemented in the mouth" :)
[16:33] <imrcly> how light and strong are they?
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> 149MHz?
[16:34] <SpeedEvil> that's what - 2m wavelength?
[16:34] <imrcly> sat modem frequency
[16:34] <imrcly> yeah
[16:35] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: rgr
[16:35] <Zuph> It'll have to be ~65cm tall, and ~33 cm in diameter
[16:36] <Zuph> imrcly: We'll drill holes for 6 supports, and then only put in the ones we need :-p
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[16:38] <jgrahamc> Hi jcoxon
[16:40] <jcoxon> evening all
[16:43] <jgrahamc> Quiet in here :-)
[16:43] <jcoxon> hehe
[16:43] <jcoxon> everyone is recovering from the anti-climax of SB-1 launch scrub
[16:44] <jgrahamc> True!
[16:44] <jcoxon> and preparing for the next launch attempt
[16:44] <jcoxon> :-D
[16:44] Action: SpeedEvil is recovering from wrestling with damn tapirs.
[16:44] <SpeedEvil> tarps.
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[16:44] <jgrahamc> Can't wait for that. Also can't wait for the bloody wind to die down over East Anglia.
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[16:45] <staylo> Hehe, was that a genuine typo? Wrestling with tapirs..
[16:45] <Zuph> jcoxon: Roger that! Attempting to build a Quad Helix antenna for 2M, appropriate for balloon flight!
[16:46] <jcoxon> Zuph, oooo QH antenna
[16:46] <jcoxon> i built on of those
[16:46] <jcoxon> for my weather sat rx'er
[16:46] <Zuph> Neat. We're going for as light weight as possible
[16:46] <Zuph> imrcly and I think we can get 150g.
[16:47] <Zuph> We tried building one out of cardboard and styrofoam last night, but weren't exacting enough on wire lengths.
[16:47] <jcoxon> getting rid of dipoles then?
[16:47] <Zuph> jcoxon: If we can get the quad to work!
[16:47] <jcoxon> are the sats polorised?
[16:47] <Zuph> Yes
[16:47] <Zuph> RHCP
[16:48] <jcoxon> what are you useing for the cabling bit? coax?
[16:48] <Zuph> According to Orbcomm testing, a quad helix has 150% the performance of a 5/8ths wave whip.
[16:48] <Zuph> And the 5/8ths whip does pretty damn good.
[16:49] <imrcly> it can pick up an entire pass even with buildings all over
[16:49] <jcoxon> hehe why didn't you go down this route first time :-p
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[16:50] <jcoxon> how about balsawood?
[16:50] <imrcly> a ham built our first antenna
[16:50] <Zuph> Because we didn't find this testing documentation until our damn balloon failed on the launch pad :-p
[16:50] <Zuph> jcoxon: We're thinking Al or Fiberglass rod, with pianowire horiz. supports.
[16:50] <Zuph> Maybe teflon tubing to stiffen the wire.
[16:50] <jcoxon> yeah that'll work
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[16:52] <jcoxon> sounds like fun
[16:53] <Zuph> Yep. 100g would be nice, but we think we can do 150g. Maybe.
[16:53] <jcoxon> check out this antenna
[16:53] <jcoxon> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ayaui88dHHA/SsF0oBhoCmI/AAAAAAAABFA/SHa_aL-q-rs/s1600-h/v4_1.jpg
[16:53] <Zuph> Marginally afraid that metal structural elements will mess with the antenna.
[16:53] <jcoxon> (yagi i know but the construction is cool
[16:54] <Zuph> Yeah
[16:56] <jcoxon> Zuph, pleased to see that HF is working :-)
[16:56] <Zuph> Aye, although we may need to tune our antenna up a little.
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[16:56] <Zuph> Damn antennas.
[16:57] <jcoxon> not easy
[16:57] <MNSP> hello all :)
[16:57] <jcoxon> Zuph, i'm reckon for SB-1 take 2 that we have enough listeners
[16:58] <Zuph> Why can't stuff just radiate and be done with it.
[16:58] <jgrahamc> Actually the problem is that pretty much anything does radiate. Especially the things you don't want radiated.
[16:59] <Zuph> Yeah, well, why can't the things that I want to radiate just radiate at the correct resonant frequency, and nothing else radiate anything at all?
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[16:59] <jcoxon> jgrahamc, ft817
[16:59] <Zuph> Knew a guy that tuned microwave wave guides for satellites. His tools were a ball peen hammer, spectrum analyzer, and 30 years of intuition. Freaking magic.
[16:59] <jgrahamc> jcoxon: are you replying to my tweet?
[16:59] <jcoxon> yes
[17:00] <jcoxon> i thought it would be weird to reply to the tweet mid conversation
[17:00] <jcoxon> as that would be like texting you when talking to you in person
[17:00] <jgrahamc> Yes, it was weird :-)
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[17:00] <jgrahamc> Thanks for the suggestion.
[17:00] <Zuph> Alright, time to go house searching. bbl.
[17:00] <MrCraig> Good Evening Fellow Habbers
[17:00] <jcoxon> ft817 is portable, does HF, VHF, UHF
[17:01] <MNSP> hi mrcraig :)
[17:01] <W0OTM> howdy folks
[17:01] <jcoxon> low power (only 5w) however your licence won't allow much more anyway
[17:01] <jcoxon> right i need to go to B and Q
[17:01] <jcoxon> bbl
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[17:04] <chembrow> the ft817 looks nice, little pricey tho
[17:05] <SamSilver> later - thanx for the fun
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[17:11] <NigeyS> oo the messenger images get released today
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> Oooh.
[17:12] <MrCraig> coool
[17:12] <NigeyS> 7pm U.K time
[17:13] <NigeyS> http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/news_room/presscon8.html
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[17:18] <fsphil> sweet
[17:18] <fsphil> about time too
[17:21] <MrCraig> Still no word from BOC - but found two suppliers in coventry. Anyone think I'll fit a T-Size cylinder in my very old astra 5 door?
[17:22] <fsphil> T fits nicely in the boot of a Micra, if that helps?
[17:23] <MrCraig> that helps a lot, Micra is smaller than the astra I think
[17:23] <NigeyS> chuck it on a roof rack ;)
[17:23] <MrCraig> though I know only two types of micra, old and older - one I sat my test in and the older one
[17:23] <MrCraig> yeah - wish I had a roof rack NigeyS - and I think securing it could be an issue there too?
[17:24] <NigeyS> good point
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[17:26] <chembrow> haha, someone from a call centre has just phoned me up to tell me that my computer has been downloading viruses and that they can help me. apparently my computer is being attacked by hackers :)
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[17:27] <chembrow> they got offended when I pointed out that I work in IT as an architect in security, and they were talking bullsh1t
[17:27] <NigeyS> hahaha muppets
[17:27] <fsphil> you should have said you don't have a computer
[17:27] <fsphil> or, "Oh no! My Commodore 64 is being hacked!"
[17:28] <chembrow> someone just this morning asked my if I'd heard of it; said I'd heard stories of it happening, but never experienced it
[17:33] <NigeyS> now this is an antenna..
[17:33] <NigeyS> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Traqueur_acquisition.JPG/220px-Traqueur_acquisition.JPG
[17:34] <chembrow> all it needs is the red lasers and it would be a perfect fit for a star destroyer
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> Reminds me of http://karakullake.blogspot.com/2010/12/japanese-1932-war-tubas-ear-trumpets.html
[17:35] <NigeyS> chembrow, lol !
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[17:35] <NigeyS> SpeedEvil, thats cool!!!
[17:36] <fsphil> talk about blowing your own trumpet
[17:37] <MrCraig> I think I'm building a yagi this weekend.
[17:38] <fsphil> there must be something in these cobwebb antennas: http://www.southgatearc.org/news/march2011/gm_nz_on_5watts.htm
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[17:40] <fsphil> gah, if it's my router it's x.org crashing
[17:52] <NigeyS> eep
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[18:09] <NigeyS> evening james
[18:11] <MrCraig> is a 2 element 70cm beam 3.5dBd Gain worth a sniff for a portable tracking antenna? (boom 30cm, longest element 30cm)
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[18:14] <mattltm-mob> hi all.
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[18:15] <MrCraig> hi mattltm-mob, you're an antenna man - question for you
[18:15] <MrCraig> MrCraig: is a 2 element 70cm beam 3.5dBd Gain worth a sniff for a portable tracking antenna? (boom 30cm, longest element 30cm)
[18:16] <mattltm-mob> is the gain or dbi?
[18:16] <mattltm-mob> oh sorry.
[18:16] <mattltm-mob> its dbd
[18:16] <MrCraig> I don't know what that means
[18:17] <mattltm-mob> the bandwidth would be wide
[18:18] <MrCraig> that's a bad thing?
[18:18] <mattltm-mob> so as long as you are near the balloon it should be fine
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[18:19] <mattltm-mob> its good because you don't have to be accurate where you point it
[18:19] <MrCraig> right
[18:19] <MrCraig> but range is limited
[18:19] <mattltm-mob> more gain increases the directivity.
[18:20] <MrCraig> I think I'll just build a yagi
[18:20] <mattltm-mob> look at the one on my blog.
[18:20] <MrCraig> thanks mattltm-mob :)
[18:20] <MrCraig> cool will do
[18:23] <griffonbot> Received email: Jon Sowman <jon@jonsowman.com> "Re: [UKHAS] Fwd: Uploading to spacenear.us from fldigi"
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[18:30] <MNSP> hello all :)
[18:31] <MrCraig> hi MNSP
[18:33] <mattltm-mob> hi
[18:34] <MNSP> so who is a CHDK superstud round here?
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[18:35] <MNSP> actually all I need to know is if theres a max size that CHDK works with?
[18:37] <MNSP> I read somewhere that after 4gb CHDK play silly buggers, can anyone confirm?
[18:40] <NigeyS> max. capacity for FAT16 is 4 GB by the looks of it
[18:40] <MNSP> Thanks NigeyS
[18:41] <NigeyS> np
[18:41] <MNSP> so taking multiple RAW images could see me run out of space real quick
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[18:43] <mattltm-mob> 4gb is the largest I have used with CHDK
[18:44] <NigeyS> hey matt
[18:44] <MNSP> hey matt
[18:44] <mattltm-mob> yo!
[18:45] <MNSP> hmm so maybe RAW is out then
[18:46] <mattltm-mob> do you have a big card to test with?
[18:46] <MNSP> have no card at all at the mo
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[18:47] <mattltm-mob> I may have one at work that I could test with.
[18:47] <MNSP> my follow up question for 10 was going to be any recomendations as typs of card am using an A480
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[18:48] <MNSP> I have got the way to calculate image file size somewhere you know like...
[18:48] <MNSP> image file resolution widht height etc
[18:49] <mattltm-mob> I wonder if you could hook up a SD card to 2 hosts.
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> About half of width*height is probably conservative.
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[18:50] <SpeedEvil> So 5MB for a 10MP camera.
[18:51] <MNSP> Speedevil thats a great rule of thumb
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[18:52] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: Silly person.
[18:52] <NigeyS> wah? :o
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> NigeyS: March 30th 1PM EDT is not today.
[18:53] <NigeyS> haha yeah i jus noticed, lost track of what date we are! :(
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:54] <MNSP> I reckon I should be ok with a class 6 sd card for pics
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[18:55] <mattltm-mob> dinner time. Bye...
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[18:56] <MNSP> taraa
[18:56] <MNSP> oh he's already gone
[18:57] <natrium42> Y PPL NO USE PERSISTENT IRC
[18:59] Action: MNSP never used irc before becoming interested in HAB
[19:00] <natrium42> IRC is the devil
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[19:01] <MNSP> altho it does what it says on the tin
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[19:04] <MNSP> anyhooo bbl TTFN :)
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[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> hello!
[19:25] <natrium42> Guten Tag, Her Lunar Auslaender
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> danke :)
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[19:32] <MrCraig> balloon should land on the royal mail van tomorrow - helium supplier (not BOC) sorted.
[19:32] <MrCraig> Some mods needed to payload box to account for camera zoom and sorted.
[19:32] <MrCraig> oh and an antenna would be nice
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> cool you land on a mail van?
[19:32] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[19:32] <MrCraig> lol - not me, the balloon
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> so it came down on the chute and hit the van
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[19:34] <MrCraig> I know - I got the reference Lunar lol - but seriously it's all go :-)
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> from Kaymont?
[19:35] <Laurenceb> not BOC?
[19:35] <Laurenceb> air products?
[19:36] <MrCraig> actually, it's a BOC reseller that must have a deal with them because they're cheaper. An independent called Matt Lewis Displays in coventry.
[19:36] <Laurenceb> ah
[19:37] <MrCraig> It seems there are actually a handful of suppliers in and around coventry - I guess foil balloons for parties must be popular there.
[19:37] <Laurenceb> i looked into helium ages ago, and air products looked good
[19:37] <Laurenceb> but a pain to set up n account with
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah you didn't buy a latex one?
[19:39] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CR5y8qZf0Y
[19:39] <MrCraig> yeah I bought latex
[19:39] <MrCraig> but I mean the sort of party balloons must be popular there
[19:39] <MrCraig> There are so many gas suppliers.
[19:40] <MrCraig> omg what is this?!
[19:40] <MrCraig> They are controlled right?
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[19:42] <fsphil> very well done
[19:45] <Laurenceb> ew microsoft visual studio
[19:46] <MrCraig> £75 for a T-Size with a refundable deposit of £50 is reasonable right?
[19:46] <Laurenceb> it uses motion capture tho
[19:47] <Laurenceb> personally im interested in using a fixed wing uav with camera for 3D terrain reconstruction
[19:47] <Laurenceb> seems like a worthwhile application and you can use all the imu+gps data to get really good accuracy
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> MrCraig ah I thought you meant one of the kaymont/totex tyoe
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> type
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> now I got it :)
[19:50] <fsphil> MrCraig, that's not bad
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[19:57] <Laurenceb> actually.. how are these multi camera quadcopter setups relevant to anything?
[19:57] <MrCraig> Thanks fsphil - and yeah the balloon is a totex 1000g Lunar_Lander. I didn't mean habbing is popular up there.
[19:57] <ollyb> i got a boc pricelist today and a T is 82 + vat
[19:58] <fsphil> that's what I had to pay ollyb -- but lots of places get discounts, if you can find one that will sell you some
[19:58] <MrCraig> That's what I thought ollyb, they lost my custom because they require a DD mandate which has to be mailed and then they are slow on top. I'll make sure that DD can't be charged now and buy direct from this guy. He's responsive to enquiry too.
[19:59] <Laurenceb> thats okish
[19:59] <Laurenceb> ~£12/m^3
[19:59] <MrCraig> Suppliers get bulk discounts from boc as I understand it.
[20:00] <ollyb> yeah, the guy i emailed literally sent me the boc pricelist.
[20:00] <MrCraig> Either that or I'll keep the DD setup and after launch day I'll see how much discount I can get from boc if I sell on to #ukhas
[20:00] <ollyb> is there much difference between that stuff as opposed to randomPartyBalloonGasCompany.co.uk?
[20:00] <fsphil> I had by boc account setup in 30 minutes at the local supplier
[20:00] <MrCraig> It may be that as a collective wwe could get better deals and have them delivered.
[20:01] <ollyb> (in terms of quality)
[20:01] <MrCraig> fsphil: there's my bad - I should have visited them direct rather than try to correspond with them
[20:01] <fsphil> aah, understand now
[20:03] <Laurenceb> drive by gassery?
[20:03] <Laurenceb> give me some helium or the hostages die
[20:03] <MrCraig> lol
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[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks MrCraig
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD Laurenceb
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[20:23] <griffonbot> @nearsys: Will we launch? Prepping for KU launch this weekend. 108 mile trip could be a problem. Testing several trackers. #ARHAB [http://twitter.com/nearsys/status/52828315173654528]
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[20:25] <MrCraig> hi RocketBoy
[20:25] <MrCraig> Thanks for being patient with me :-)
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[20:25] <RocketBoy> no problem
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[20:33] <RocketBoy> Have there been any Kings College Mech Eng guys on?
[20:35] <MrCraig> Unfortunately I wouldn't know one if I saw them.
[20:36] <jcoxon> kings college london or kings college cambridge?
[20:37] <jcoxon> oh and evening RocketBoy
[20:38] <RocketBoy> hi kc long
[20:39] <RocketBoy> london
[20:39] <eroomde> would hope kings college cambridge would flash on our radar
[20:39] <eroomde> but then my radar has been turned off for about 6 months now
[20:39] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, nope nothing, (and i went to kings college)
[20:39] <jcoxon> i should be hurt!
[20:39] <jcoxon> hey eroomde
[20:39] <jcoxon> long time...
[20:39] <eroomde> mmm
[20:39] <eroomde> have been busy!
[20:40] <eroomde> long field trip studying avalnahces with the air ship in davos
[20:40] <eroomde> got back sat
[20:40] <jcoxon> cool cool
[20:40] <jcoxon> success?
[20:40] <eroomde> yes it was grand
[20:40] <eroomde> hard work but we got the system working nicely in the end
[20:40] <eroomde> loads of data to process now
[20:40] <jcoxon> great
[20:40] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K29dn0Mzspk
[20:41] <jcoxon> thats so cool
[20:42] <eroomde> have put a couple of videos up iuw
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> back
[20:42] <jcoxon> eroomde, back in time for a trans-a launch before the end of this years season
[20:42] <eroomde> lots of pretty pics too which i'll turn into a gallery at some point http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5430/p3240161.jpg
[20:42] <eroomde> yes so i hear
[20:42] <eroomde> though aborted one last weekend?
[20:43] <jcoxon> yeah but they are nearly there...
[20:43] <jcoxon> so back into the lab for you?
[20:43] <natrium42> o/
[20:43] <eroomde> 'nearly there' is always 80 / 20 rule though
[20:44] <eroomde> there's actually a thousand little potential niggles and bugs and failure modes that often take several weeks to make reliable
[20:44] <jcoxon> uhuh
[20:44] <eroomde> even when it's sitting there looking completed and shiny on the desk
[20:44] <eroomde> yes i'm back in the lab for a couple of months now
[20:45] <eroomde> thought with a bit of holiday here and there
[20:45] <jcoxon> :-)
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> hello RocketBoy !
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> nice to see you again
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[20:46] <natrium42> jcoxon: you should launch something when i am in england!
[20:46] <jcoxon> natrium42, yeah!
[20:46] <jcoxon> i've got 2 payloads nearly ready to rol
[20:46] <jcoxon> l
[20:46] <natrium42> cool
[20:46] <jcoxon> when are you here?
[20:47] <natrium42> 27 april, for a few days
[20:47] <natrium42> then on to mother russia
[20:47] <eroomde> tits I might be away
[20:47] <eroomde> i think i am back on 29th
[20:47] <natrium42> D:
[20:47] <eroomde> you still here?
[20:47] <natrium42> i will go through london on the trip back
[20:47] <jcoxon> natrium42, i'm working 27/28
[20:47] <natrium42> :S
[20:47] <jcoxon> off 29/30/31
[20:47] <natrium42> ok, i didn't finalize tickitz yet
[20:48] <jcoxon> then nights the week after
[20:48] <jcoxon> i'm super free from 6th may for a week
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> wow, England has such mountains?
[20:48] <natrium42> planning multipath routes is a bitch
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> looks like the alps!
[20:48] <eroomde> it is!
[20:48] <eroomde> assuming you mean the video
[20:48] <eroomde> it's the dorfberg
[20:49] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: der berg ruft
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> dorfberg?
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> that sounds like Northrhine-Westphalia
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:49] <natrium42> haha
[20:50] <eroomde> i wouldn't know
[20:50] <jcoxon> eroomde, i'm hoping to launch week 9/5/11
[20:50] <eroomde> i think i am around then
[20:50] <jcoxon> excellent
[20:51] <eroomde> conference the following week
[20:51] <jcoxon> long duration 434/SPoT flight methinks
[20:51] <eroomde> cool
[20:51] <eroomde> suicidal?
[20:51] <jcoxon> probably not
[20:51] <eroomde> so hoping for low winds :)
[20:51] <jcoxon> i was thinking france over flight
[20:51] <eroomde> or cross channel
[20:51] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:52] <jcoxon> we've got more french listeners these days
[20:52] <eroomde> perfidious anglais high altitude society. PAHAS
[20:53] <jcoxon> haha
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> and we got Tim
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> in NL
[20:54] <eroomde> should have everything covered
[20:54] <jcoxon> having SPoT will help
[20:56] <eroomde> to entertain the kids
[20:56] <jcoxon> yeah!
[20:56] <jcoxon> and report lat/lon/alt and so other number that fits into DD.dddd
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> and then you send up seeds and stuff
[21:02] Action: RocketBoy is retired again - yea loads of free time
[21:03] <MrCraig> You're a contractor RocketBoy?
[21:03] Action: RocketBoy - although the XYL has load of jobs lined up
[21:03] <RocketBoy> MrCraig: yep
[21:04] <jcoxon> RocketBoy, more time for balloons then
[21:04] <RocketBoy> absolutly
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy did you have a chance to test the Hwoyee balloons yet?
[21:05] <eroomde> *crack* wtf? No, harry (housemate) 'ovenproof' stoneware does not mean you can put it on a gas hob.
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> LOL
[21:05] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: not me personally - but someone must have - based on the number I have sold
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
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[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> did you ever had luck to get indian balloons?
[21:06] <MrCraig> well one of them will be tested in 11 days time.
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> I once wrote to a strange e-mail address and never got an answer
[21:07] <MrCraig> "Lunar_Lander: I once wrote to a strange e-mail address and never got an answer" - I sooo wanna tweet that
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:08] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: nope - the existing suppliers are enough pain already
[21:09] <RocketBoy> BTW - general comment - my business emails are dead at the mo - but my private one is working
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I can imagine, Hwoyee doesn't accept paypal and stuff
[21:10] <RocketBoy> also - although the website is working I cant update it - so I have 1000g totex - but cant put it up on the site
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> and Kaymont hardly answers e-mails
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:11] <RocketBoy> Lunar_Lander: yep
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> it is good that you sell those balloons because I don't know how much a transatlantic phone call costs to call them directly
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> also the postage would probably be big
[21:13] <MrCraig> As would the minimum order?
[21:13] <natrium42> calls to USA are free though
[21:13] <natrium42> using google talk
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[21:14] <MrCraig> natrium42: are you suggesting I could dial a US landline / mobile using google talk?
[21:15] <natrium42> yeah, absolutely
[21:15] <MrCraig> then maybe I have the wrong google talk app
[21:15] <natrium42> i just use the one in gmail
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[21:15] <MrCraig> ahh - the flash app has some updates the desktop one doesn't then
[21:15] <natrium42> MrCraig: http://www.google.com/chat/voice/
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[21:16] <MrCraig> natrium42: Thanks - now I can call the better half for free :)
[21:16] <natrium42> np :)
[21:16] <MrCraig> I have a skype in number for her to call here.
[21:16] <Shuffty> Hello all.
[21:17] <MrCraig> hi Shuffty
[21:17] <jcoxon> hi Shuffty
[21:17] <natrium42> hi Shuffty
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> well
[21:17] <natrium42> combo breaker
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> Skype-to-Skype is free
[21:17] <eroomde> right catch y'all later
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> but Skype-to-phone costs
[21:17] <Shuffty> I didnt think it would be this busy in here - so is everybody interested / involved in high altitude balloon flight?
[21:17] <natrium42> later ed
[21:17] <eroomde> Shuffty: yes
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> no, this is the farming channel
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> lol
[21:18] <Shuffty> :-)
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> of course we are :)
[21:18] <MrCraig> Lunar_Lander: I have a US skype-in number, so phone->skype from us to here is free
[21:18] <MrCraig> well negligable not free, I have to pay annually for the number.
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:19] <jcoxon> Shuffty, so yes nearly everyone here is intereted in HAB, most from the UK
[21:20] <Shuffty> Great.
[21:20] <Shuffty> I'm wanting to get involved / build a 'HAB' myself..
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[21:21] <jcoxon> where are you based?
[21:21] <Shuffty> Manchester..
[21:21] <jcoxon> cool, and experience in microprocessors, gps and radios?
[21:21] <jcoxon> (just gauging levels!)
[21:22] <Shuffty> I have some experience - I can get by :-)
[21:22] <jcoxon> great
[21:22] <jcoxon> have you seen http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk?
[21:22] <Shuffty> Jack of all trades, but master of none!
[21:22] <jcoxon> even better :-p
[21:22] <Shuffty> I've spent all week in there - some great information!
[21:23] <Shuffty> I've been shopping this week buying things I think I might need
[21:23] <MrCraig> You have a suitable radio yet Shuffty?
[21:23] <Shuffty> Just bought a ft790r and a ntx2
[21:24] <MrCraig> :-)
[21:24] <jcoxon> you're nearly done then :-)
[21:24] <Shuffty> Still to sort an aerial for both and of course put it all together. Should have everything by the end of the week, so can start playing.
[21:25] <Shuffty> So have you launched a balloon yet jcoxon?
[21:25] <jcoxon> indeed i have
[21:25] <Shuffty> Do you have a website / blog I can read though?
[21:25] <jcoxon> http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk
[21:26] <jcoxon> but also some of my projects are on the ukhas wiki
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> Shuffty you are lucky that eBay had a ft790r
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[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> they sometimes have none for weeks
[21:27] <MrCraig> Lunar_Lander: there's another one there now :)
[21:27] <Shuffty> There were 3 - one on my doorstep which I was outbid on by a few ££ and one which Irefused to loose.... :-) lol
[21:28] <Shuffty> I think it has a little damage the other one thats listed...
[21:28] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:28] <MrCraig> I broke the little metal lug on the battery cover of mine - so if anyone ever scraps one please let me know :)
[21:29] <Shuffty> I'm quite looking forward to messing with the radio more than anything... that and the possibility of taking photos like those I've see
[21:29] <Shuffty> n
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[21:34] <Shuffty> So when are you releasing your next balloon jcoxon - some great information on your wiki pages.
[21:35] <fsphil> aah so you where the one that bought that last 790 on ebay then Shuffty ? :)
[21:35] <Shuffty> Sorry - were you after it? :-)
[21:35] <MrCraig> lol
[21:35] <Shuffty> Somebody beat me to the first one! :-)
[21:35] <fsphil> lol nah, got one - but I'd put the minimum bid on it
[21:35] <Shuffty> lol
[21:35] <MrCraig> Erm - can anyone tell me how to insert on the wiki (I'm not experienced with wiki but want to list my upcoming flight)
[21:36] <fsphil> there's another one on there now if anyone is after it
[21:36] <Shuffty> I was praying nobody had noticed it - I placed 3 bids at <2min .. 90, 101.50, 110.50 - turns out I got it for £85, so result!
[21:36] <fsphil> my 817 may appear on ebay soon too
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:36] <fsphil> yes that's an excellent price, they often go over £100
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> I got a Stabo XR100 for 110 euro
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[21:37] <jcoxon> MrCraig, you need to register first
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> (equal to yupiteru MVT-7100)
[21:37] <MrCraig> hehe I've been watching it fsphil - if a friend can find a computer I'm going to buy it for him to track it. I'm also keen to know who else might be listening
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello mattltm
[21:37] <mattltm> Hi :)
[21:38] <MrCraig> jcoxon: I'm registered, and about two months or so ago figured out how to add myself onto the member list - but I get edit buttons to edit existing paragraphs and wanted to insert a new one
[21:38] <Shuffty> To be fair - I didn't/don't know much about the radio side of it - not used amateur radio since the early 80's when CB's were all the rage. Bought it off the recomendation on the UKHAS site.
[21:38] <jcoxon> MrCraig, edit the whole page
[21:38] <fsphil> aah, CB, I remember that :)
[21:38] <Shuffty> :-)
[21:38] <MrCraig> jcoxon: Thank you :-) (slaps self)
[21:40] <fsphil> first picture from Mercury orbit: http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/image.php?gallery_id=2&image_id=432
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[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> YAY!
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[21:43] <Shuffty> fsphil - thats an awesome photo!
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:49] <fsphil> pretty nifty alright, looking forward to seeing what else they release tomorrow
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> Shuffty so you age into radio
[21:50] <Shuffty> sorry lunar - I dont understand the question?
[21:50] <Shuffty> :-S
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> oh sorry
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> I meant "are"
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> you are interested in radio
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> because I then would have said "I am interested in doing research with the balloons"
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:51] <fsphil> hmm.. the predictions are still favouring a yorkshire landing from here
[21:51] <mattltm> When are you planning to launch fsphil?
[21:52] <fsphil> two weeks time
[21:52] <MrCraig> weekend?
[21:52] <fsphil> aye .. two weeks + 4 days
[21:52] <fsphil> ok .. three weeks time :p
[21:53] <MrCraig> Awesome, look forwards to that.
[21:53] <Shuffty> :-) I am, but I know very little at this stage.. literally only just started looking into this stuff a few days ago. Have been reading and reading and reading...
[21:53] <fsphil> I'm reluctant to let it go that far again :)
[21:53] <Shuffty> Where are you launching from fsphil?
[21:54] <fsphil> middle of n.ireland
[21:54] <MrCraig> fsphil: it's aiming at yorkshire?
[21:54] <mattltm> fsphil, If to comes South I can pick it up for you :)
[21:54] <fsphil> that general area, or near the scottish border
[21:54] <Shuffty> Brilliant - if it comes my way I shall try to track it (if I'm setup in time!)
[21:54] <fsphil> you'll be well placed Shuffty
[21:54] <Shuffty> Happy to help hunt for it, if it's in the northwest area.
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[21:55] <fsphil> if it looks like it might avoid the yorkshire dales, I might try it again
[21:56] <Shuffty> So is that where you want it to land?
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[21:56] <fsphil> I'd like it to land on this side of the sea :)
[21:56] <Shuffty> Still trying to get my head around the way a flight is planned to avoid landing in somebodies garden!
[21:56] <fsphil> but that's proving to be difficult
[21:56] <Shuffty> :-)
[21:57] <Blackover> nearest launch in Russia will be soon (probably 12 of April, cause the 50th anniversary of human spaceflight). Launch place - BlagoveshchenskRussian town near border with China,
[21:57] <fsphil> 30km tethered launch :)
[21:57] <Hibby> tethered?!
[21:57] <Shuffty> tethered?
[21:57] <Shuffty> :_D
[21:57] <fsphil> tethered!
[21:57] <Shuffty> lol
[21:57] <jcoxon> Blackover, any way to follow the flight?
[21:58] <Blackover> they dont have website
[21:58] <Hibby> sweet
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[22:01] <jcoxon> Blackover, balloon launch?
[22:01] <fsphil> jcoxon, naive question about the pin-hole floaters... why doesn't the gas escape at night?
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> it does.
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> but slowly.
[22:02] <Blackover> discussin was started on local forum and has provoked forming of 2 rivaling development group (as far as i can read)
[22:02] <Blackover> yes, balloon launch
[22:02] <jcoxon> Blackover, well if they need any help there is quite a bit of experience (i don't speak russian though1)
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[22:03] <fsphil> right
[22:03] <jcoxon> fsphil, also there is probably near zero pressure
[22:04] <fsphil> so the pressure inside is the same as the air around it?
[22:04] <MrCraig> Ok, I must run a prediction or two - I think it's about time.
[22:06] <Blackover> only problem - law. There is you can get in prison in Russia, and due to current law private pirson cant launch ballons, only meteorological service and military
[22:06] <Shuffty> Is it not possible to measure the pressure inside and out, and use a mechanical release valve to stop the balloon from bursting?
[22:06] <jcoxon> oh, thats not good
[22:06] <fsphil> eek
[22:06] <jcoxon> i'm sure there was a russian launch recently
[22:06] <fsphil> that's a bit harsh
[22:07] <Blackover> i was one (Yonas) who did this
[22:07] <jcoxon> oh right
[22:07] <jcoxon> good launch!
[22:07] <jcoxon> don't get sent to prison though
[22:08] <Blackover> cause there is no person (position in goverment) who must do that
[22:09] <Blackover> i mean cause i leave "outside" big Russia
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[22:10] Nick change: gartt_ -> gartt
[22:11] <Shuffty> Does anybody run dl-fldigi on a macbook with the standard sound card? Does it work ok?
[22:12] <jonsowman> works fine on a 2009 mbp
[22:12] <jonsowman> set the audio port to input
[22:13] <Shuffty> Brill! Another tick off the list then.. :-)
[22:13] <fsphil> haha
[22:13] <fsphil> are you going solo or is there a team?
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> Yonas was in that outer part of Russia
[22:14] <jonsowman> Shuffty: there's a handy utility called LineIN
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> the part next to Estonia
[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> Kaliningrad or so
[22:14] <Shuffty> Right at this moment in time, it's me..
[22:14] <jonsowman> allows you to listen to what's coming into the audio input port
[22:14] <jonsowman> freeware, google it :)
[22:15] <MrCraig> If I have time next week, or else the week after - I'm going to see if I can build dl-fldigi on an android (arm based)
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[22:15] <Shuffty> Cheers jonsowman! I'll have a shuffty for it.
[22:15] <jonsowman> hehe
[22:15] <jonsowman> :P
[22:15] <MrCraig> heya jon
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[22:16] <fsphil> ooh dependency fun
[22:16] <jonsowman> hi MrCraig
[22:17] <Shuffty> Got LineIn - cheers for that!
[22:18] <jonsowman> no worries :) open it and hit "Pass Through" or something
[22:18] <jonsowman> then you can hear the incoming audio from the radio as well as having it decoded by fldigi
[22:18] <jcoxon> jonsowman, all about soundflower
[22:18] <jonsowman> jcoxon: I tried it and didn't get on with it at all
[22:19] <jonsowman> that is another option though Shuffty :)
[22:19] <jonsowman> jcoxon: did you see my email to the list earlier?
[22:19] <jcoxon> yup
[22:19] <jonsowman> any thoughts?
[22:20] <jcoxon> slightly odd order
[22:20] <jcoxon> pretty much what natrium42 said
[22:20] <jcoxon> if lat/lon are in sensible then the rest is easier
[22:20] <jonsowman> yeah
[22:20] <jcoxon> time also is probably best in HH:MM:SS
[22:21] <jcoxon> that said the listener server would benefit from unstanding HHMMSS
[22:21] <jonsowman> yeah I think that one is going to have to be changed
[22:21] <jonsowman> he's changing the alt to metres, so that's ok
[22:21] <jonsowman> so it's just lat/lon
[22:21] <jonsowman> the ordering of things in the string is odd too
[22:21] <jcoxon> minimum is lat/lon/alt
[22:21] <jonsowman> yup
[22:21] <jcoxon> the ordering should be fine
[22:22] <jonsowman> yeah the config xml should cover that
[22:22] <jcoxon> time isn't critical as spacenear.us will use server time
[22:22] <jonsowman> that's fine then
[22:22] <jcoxon> i think they'll find that a bit of flight computer processing is helpful
[22:22] <jcoxon> as eyeballing data is key
[22:23] <jonsowman> yeah
[22:23] <jonsowman> I did mention that
[22:25] <natrium42> hehe
[22:25] <natrium42> maybe they are using a highly precise laser rangefinder!
[22:25] <jcoxon> if the listener could accept HHMMSS then a $GPGGA string would properly work
[22:25] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:25] <jcoxon> utter laziness
[22:26] <jonsowman> haha
[22:27] <natrium42> spacenear.us already accepts HHMMSS
[22:27] <natrium42> would be easy to add to listener
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[22:36] <NigeyS> bbc news site down for anyone else ?
[22:36] <fsphil> yea, dead here
[22:36] <jcoxon> yes
[22:36] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:36] <MrCraig> yes
[22:37] <natrium42> yes
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> all BBC sites.
[22:37] <fsphil> "no servers could be reached"
[22:37] <NigeyS> wow, that doesnt happen often
[22:37] <jcoxon> only just gone down for me
[22:37] <jcoxon> their uptime must be amazing
[22:37] <LazyLeopard> Part of its load-balancing system is apparently dead.
[22:37] <MrCraig> ukhas: balloon data - the payload weight here is a recommended?
[22:37] <NigeyS> jcoxon, i bet!
[22:37] <NigeyS> 8 opendns-0.r01.amstnl02.nl.bb.gin.ntt.net (81.20.64.82) 17.361 ms 17.349 ms 16.833 ms
[22:37] <NigeyS> 9 * * *
[22:37] <NigeyS> woopsie
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[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> MrCraig yes
[22:38] <MrCraig> cool because mine is almost three times that.
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> calculated for a certain payload weight to result in a certain ascent rate
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC
[22:38] <Lunar_Lander> 1000g at 320 m/min
[22:41] <jcoxon> MrCraig, whats your payload weight?
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[22:42] <MrCraig> jcoxon: 500g onto which I add about 25g for duct tape - chute is 175g - and a 1000g balloon
[22:42] <NigeyS> hey Zuph
[22:42] <MrCraig> jcoxon: can you help with the numbers?
[22:42] <jcoxon> thats fine
[22:42] <MrCraig> I presume gross lift - payload * some constant = ascent rate?
[22:42] <jcoxon> you won't break the alt record
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> ascent rate is much more complicated
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> that would be a calculation with lifting force and drag force
[22:43] <jcoxon> the calc can do ascent rate for you
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:43] <MrCraig> hehe - I don't plan to with this flight, it's my sounding flight - I'll break it on the next one for you.
[22:44] <MrCraig> oh I see it, I'd missed the link. thanks.
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> Shuffty so what would your balloon like to do?
[22:46] <jcoxon> night all
[22:46] <MrCraig> What does nozzle lift mean?
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[22:46] <Shuffty> Just on the phone - one min..
[22:46] <Shuffty> :-)
[22:46] <MrCraig> I've done something wrong, I get an ascent rate of 0FPM :)
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> did you fill out all required fields?
[22:47] <fsphil> nozzle lift it's the amount of weight your balloon can lift, but not ascend
[22:47] <MrCraig> yes Lunar_Lander
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> or maybe you need to increase the volume a little?
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> is the lift negative?
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> if yes, give it a little more volume in the thing to the left
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil yeah, but I got a question
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> from the chart, the 3000 can carry 2.7 kg
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> and EOSS frequently launches stuff in the range of 10 kg
[22:48] <Lunar_Lander> how do they do it? they also use 3000
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[22:49] <RocketBoy> I think Nozzel lift is just a recommended value
[22:49] <fsphil> big balloon like that can probably lift 10 kg with enough helium in it
[22:50] <MrCraig> ahh this is better - 4.09 m/s targeting 34100m
[22:51] <RocketBoy> - you can lift more than that - but it just won't go as high - possibly it will burst earlier than its size would normallyallow
[22:51] <fsphil> wouldn't want to be underneath it though
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> because
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> someone here told me "Don't overload the balloon, if you use more than "Nozzle lift" says in the chart, the balloon may fail"
[22:53] <Lunar_Lander> MrCraig was it the problem I suggested?
[22:53] <RocketBoy> night all
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[22:53] <MrCraig> Lunar_Lander: The problem was the operator (and that operator taking the wrong link)
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:57] <Shuffty> Sorry about that Lunar_lander - I'm into my photography quite a bit, so would love to get some decent high altitude photos!
[22:59] <Shuffty> That and I quite like the idea of building it / tracking it...
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> no problem
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:01] <Shuffty> So nothing amazingly new or special! :-)
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:03] <Shuffty> I'm using this as my template..
[23:03] <Shuffty> http://hollandshoogte.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/hohoho-i-onderdelen1.jpg
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> I am trying to do research as I said
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah he is quite good
[23:04] <Shuffty> What are you researching?
[23:04] <MrCraig> ok - I calculated ascent rate as best I could - now I need to measure it's descent rate using the dummy payload... but not tonight :)
[23:04] <MrCraig> goodnight all
[23:05] <Shuffty> Goodnight!
[23:05] <MrCraig> Good luck with your habbing Shuffty :)
[23:05] <Shuffty> Cheers fella :-)
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[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> well I am trying to do basic meteorology first and then expand that
[23:06] <Shuffty> Where was MrCraig doing these calculations? Is there a proven formular, or is it a percentage of guess work?
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> I asked several scientists at different universities if they would like to fly their apparatus and I got some responses for that
[23:06] <Shuffty> lunar_lander - well above my head :-)
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah :)
[23:09] <Shuffty> So what sort of stuff are they sending up?
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[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> there is one acoustic hygrometer for instance
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[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> or a bacteria collector from Cranfield University
[23:14] <Hibby> we're likely to use the most sucessful of the StratHABs to test the UKube 1 payloads (heat transfer experiment, cameras, etc)
[23:15] <Lunar_Lander> heat transfer experiment?
[23:15] <Randomskk> but heat transfer is so dull D:
[23:16] <Hibby> in ukube 1 we hope to have an experiment testing heat transfer in near-vacuum conditions (as LEO is), and given the changes in heat that satellites go through, it's ideal
[23:16] <Hibby> testing different materials/surfaces
[23:17] <Hibby> http://www.clyde-space.com/news/311_uk-s-first-cubesat-mission-starts-to-take-shape
[23:17] <Hibby> dunno if it's listed here.
[23:17] <Hibby> I'm part of the comms team / ground station manager...
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[23:18] <Hibby> the design of a 1Mbit GMSK link over S band is proving fun
[23:19] <Hibby> so we can downlink the hi-res image
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[23:20] <Shuffty> Goodnight all - great talking to you - sure I'll be back again!
[23:20] <Hibby> do come back, this is a fascinating place to live
[23:21] <Shuffty> :-)
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[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> waiting for the sparkfun stuff is getting boring
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> at least I can get some theoretical work done
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[00:00] --- Wed Mar 30 2011