highaltitude.log.20110322

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[00:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi juxta
[00:36] <juxta> hey Lunar_Lander
[00:36] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[00:37] <juxta> good - tomorrow I am off to the grand prix
[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> Who're you driving for?
[00:38] <juxta> yamaha's golf cart division
[00:42] <MrCraig> ok, it's goodnight for now :-)
[00:42] <MrCraig> *waves* \\//_
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[00:48] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[00:48] <Lunar_Lander> a golf cart race
[00:48] <juxta> haha
[00:49] <juxta> not quite, I'm going over with a friend who supplies golf carts for the event
[00:51] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[01:24] <Zuph> ping juxta and/or natrium42
[01:28] <imrcly> yeah
[01:28] <imrcly> darn
[01:29] <natrium42> sup Zuph?
[01:30] <Zuph> Trying to get our data into our swipe of spacenear, James says you're the guy to ask.
[01:30] <Zuph> "You'll also need to add the correct titles for the extra data - I'm
[01:30] <Zuph> not sure exactly how to do this - natrium and juxta both know. The
[01:30] <Zuph> format for my custom data packet is:
[01:30] <Zuph> "$pressure_fc;$pressure_bb;$pressure_bm;$pressure_bt;$temp_fc;$temp_ext;$temp_bb;$temp_bm;$temp_bt;$temp_batt;$humidity;$balloonValve;$ice;$hdop;$climb;$status;$dewpoint;$volts;$acc_cur;$ballastValve;$ballastRemaining";"
[01:30] <Zuph> Oops, sorry for the spam
[01:31] <natrium42> see function horus_data)_ in index.php
[01:32] <Zuph> alrighty
[01:32] <natrium42> you can just adde it to the field var
[01:37] <imrcly> yeah
[01:38] <Zuph> natrium42: I take it the order of the fields matters?
[01:38] <imrcly> yeah
[01:38] <natrium42> yes, should be the same order as you're sending it in to the server
[01:38] <Zuph> Okay, let's hope James gave me the right order :)
[01:38] <imrcly> XD
[01:40] <Zuph> natrium42: Anyway to ignore a field?
[01:41] <natrium42> sure, just change that function to do whatever you need :)
[01:42] <Zuph> bah, that would require *understanding* the function.
[01:43] <natrium42> in the for loop: if(i == whatever) continue;
[01:43] <natrium42> but you still need the place holders in fields var
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[08:00] <mattltm> Morning :)
[08:03] <fsphil> mooonin
[08:03] <mattltm> Hey fsphil :)
[08:03] <mattltm> Got the GPS working. Sort of :)
[08:04] <fsphil> excellent .. kinda ... :)
[08:04] <fsphil> what kind of horrible hack did you have to do?
[08:04] <mattltm> None.
[08:04] <mattltm> Its pertty clean..
[08:04] <mattltm> Just a small issue to sort out..
[08:04] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ntx2-blip.jpg
[08:04] <mattltm> Its like a small blip in the rtty. RX buffer maybe?
[08:05] <fsphil> nasty frequency drift there
[08:05] <mattltm> Umm, yup :p
[08:05] <fsphil> voltage problems?
[08:05] <mattltm> First 3 lines are perfect.
[08:06] <mattltm> then that blip apperas
[08:06] <fsphil> brb, lift is here
[08:06] <mattltm> May try the NTX2 from 5v
[08:06] <mattltm> Ok :)
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[08:32] <earthshine> morning
[08:33] <fsphil> mornin
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[09:04] <fsphil> HTC localisation fail -- "remove device from your pants pocket before sitting down"
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[09:49] <mattltm-alt> Hey :)
[09:51] <fsphil> re
[09:56] <mattltm-alt> At work fsphil?
[09:56] <fsphil> aye -- playing with a few htc phones :)
[09:58] <mattltm-alt> Don't want my dead one do you?
[09:58] <mattltm-alt> O2 refused ti fix it.
[09:58] <mattltm-alt> IAfter their OTA update bricked it.
[09:59] <fsphil> what? that's mad -- they have to!
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> What reason did they give you?
[10:00] <mattltm-alt> They said that there was damage to the charging port (a small chip from the plastic) and therefore would not be repaird under warenty.
[10:00] <mattltm-alt> Because HTC require that all damage is fixed when a handset gose into repair.
[10:01] <mattltm-alt> So they wanted to charge me £167 to repair it.
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> That is probably not legal.
[10:02] <mattltm-alt> Got the handset back and the charging port is totaly screwed now.
[10:02] <mattltm-alt> Looks like someone has stuck a screwdriver in it ans ripped out the connections.
[10:03] <mattltm-alt> So, dispite the fact that a OTA update bricked it, it has come back to me with more damage that when it was sent!
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[10:04] <Dooberry> morn
[10:06] <mattltm-alt> Hi Dooberry
[10:07] <mattltm-alt> What do you think could be causing my blip fsphil?
[10:10] <fsphil> too much current
[10:11] <fsphil> the regular drops could be the gps
[10:11] <fsphil> using more current than can be supplied, causing a voltage drop
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[10:26] <mattltm-alt> Humm. The first 3 - 4 strings are fine.
[10:27] <mattltm-alt> So I moved the NTX2 to be powered from the 5v pin on the arduino
[10:27] <mattltm-alt> and the GPS is from the 3.3v pin
[10:27] <mattltm-alt> Same problem.
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[10:37] <fsphil> hmms
[10:38] <fsphil> what kind of regulator?
[10:41] <fsphil> simple test would be to disconnect the gps - see if it still dips
[10:46] <mattltm-alt> disconnect the GPS and feed it sample data?
[10:48] <fsphil> I was thinking no data, just to see if it dips, but sample data would be better
[10:49] <fsphil> or keep the gps powered but disconnect the data lines
[11:00] <mattltm-alt> That sounds good.
[11:00] <mattltm-alt> I'll have a go at removing the data line later.
[11:00] <mattltm-alt> The Venus module gets a fast lock :)
[11:03] <fsphil> how long from cold?
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[11:20] <mattltm-alt> About 2 mins. Not properly tested yet but from first time start up to outputting lat/long was about 2 mins.
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[12:40] <Dooberry> argh - this 2 man HAB project is fast turning into a 1 man effort
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[12:43] Action: Laurenceb_ gives Dooberry a whip
[12:44] <fsphil> electrified whip
[12:49] <fsphil> you just can't get the minions these days
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[14:48] <fsphil> hiya Dan-K2VOL n' Zuph - how's things going today?
[14:50] <Zuph> Sleepy
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[14:53] Action: imrcly deskface snore
[14:53] <Zuph> You left early enough to get some sleep :-p
[14:53] <fsphil> aah -- productive noight?
[14:53] <imrcly> couldn't sleep
[14:53] <fsphil> night even
[14:54] <Zuph> Productive enough. Killed a couple of really, really annoying bugs.
[14:55] <imrcly> those stink trees are blooming
[14:56] <imrcly> give me horrible headaches even though i am not allergic to them
[14:56] <Zuph> hah
[14:56] <fsphil> the joys of spring
[14:56] <imrcly> did you see those smd stickers
[14:57] <Zuph> Yeah, $60 a sheet
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[14:57] <imrcly> but are a big weight saver
[14:57] <Zuph> big fat wallet waster
[14:58] <imrcly> there has to be a way to get flexable pcb
[14:59] <Zuph> GoldPhoenix will run off a sheet for like $200.
[14:59] <imrcly> err etch flex pcb
[14:59] <Zuph> Ah
[14:59] <Zuph> Cindy's done it in her lab.
[14:59] <Zuph> You just run the sheets through a solid wax printer for the etch resist, and etch normally.
[15:00] <Zuph> Problem is, there's no place to buy the sheets in small quantities.
[15:00] <Zuph> Well, and solid ink printers aren't exactly common.
[15:00] <imrcly> http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Flexible-Printed-Circuits
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[15:18] Action: SpeedEvil drops a phaser on Zuph.
[15:19] <imrcly> have you looked at hysplit for this morning
[15:19] <Zuph> Yeah
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[15:35] <Dan-K2VOL> grr thursday is falling apart
[15:35] <Dan-K2VOL> damnit
[15:39] <Laurenceb_> you with whitestar?
[15:39] <Zuph> hah
[15:39] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL IS white star :-p
[15:40] <Dan-K2VOL> lol
[15:41] <W0OTM> Hello WOrld
[15:44] <Dan-K2VOL> hi W0OTM
[15:46] <W0OTM> Hi Dan
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[15:52] <Northgate> Hello all!
[15:54] <Northgate> Could someone direct me to a supplier that stocks some kind of humidity and air pressure probe that we can attach to our next balloon.
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[15:55] <Dan-K2VOL> Is Tiburon 2001 a HYU 020? it's not in internal
[15:58] <Zuph> Dan-K2VOL: Wrong window?
[16:01] <GroupO> hibby: ping
[16:01] <hibby> pong
[16:01] <hibby> not in & about currently ~ report writing @ flat
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[16:02] <GroupO> ahhh, ok doke. Will you be in tonite?
[16:02] <hibby> aye, i've got a meeting at 5, so I'll be in before then if you want to jump up?
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[16:04] <GroupO> give me a call when ur in, it only takes me a few secs to pop up
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[16:06] <hibby> cool
[16:09] <Dan-K2VOL> ha zuph yes, wrong window
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL> northgate, sparkfun
[16:10] <Zuph> I'll give you an answer, pretty good odds of being correct :)
[16:10] <Dan-K2VOL> ha!
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[16:13] <mattltm-alt> Dan: Do you use BigBlueButton?
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[16:15] <fsphil> ooh, firefox 4 is out -- and it's quite nifty
[16:16] <Zuph> My <3 belongs to Google Chrome.
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[16:22] <hibby> I was a chrome fan until it started freezing everything I was doing in browser to make a page load faster
[16:22] <hibby> ff4 has shiny hardware acceleration for the odd time im in windows too
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[16:24] <fsphil> shame that doesn't work on linux
[16:24] <imrcly> chrome hasn't been publicly hacked
[16:28] <hibby> doesn't mean it doesn't have weaknesses.
[16:29] <hibby> or tht it's perfect. What's awesome about the browser market now is the range of really good choice that's appearing, and the quality that all the browsers are showing :)
[16:30] <imrcly> does firefox do extension sync yet?
[16:30] <Zuph> imrcly: there's probably an extension for that :-p
[16:30] <Zuph> Now if we could just get web developers to pull their heads out of their asses.
[16:30] <hibby> imrcly: I think so, and you can do the other sync functions via a private server if you wish
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> mattltm-alt no
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> mumble
[16:32] <hibby> regardless, I still use chrome on linux, so most of the time
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> but I"m definitely going to try it
[16:32] <Dan-K2VOL> gtg
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[17:09] <GroupO> jonsowman: ping
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[17:19] <mattltm-alt> Has anyone got a moment to look at a webapp for me?
[17:19] <mattltm-alt> I need feedback on video qaulity
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[17:26] <earthshine> Anyone tried to use the laser cutter to cut something like fabric ?
[17:27] <earthshine> oops wrong channel
[17:27] <spacefelix> Zuph: Ooooo!
[17:27] <earthshine> :D
[17:27] <spacefelix> Zuph: How many days before we confuse Mr. G?
[17:35] <fsphil> home sweet home
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[17:41] <jcoxon> afternoon all
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[17:45] <jcoxon> ping hibby
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[17:55] <jcoxon> hey Zuph
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[18:12] <W0OTM> howdy
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[18:25] <earthshine> just put 5v through my FSA03
[18:25] <earthshine> but it apears to be still alive
[18:25] <jcoxon> earthshine, eek
[18:26] <earthshine> the time is correct and it appears to be picking up 3 satellites - no fix yet tho
[18:27] <earthshine> just got a fix !! :D
[18:27] <earthshine> it's alive!!!
[18:27] <mattltm> Yay!
[18:27] <jcoxon> hooray
[18:27] <jcoxon> wouldn't try again though
[18:27] <earthshine> nope
[18:27] <earthshine> luckily I have about 4 of them so I have spares
[18:28] <earthshine> now to try and find out why the tinygps library is not parsing the strings
[18:29] <jcoxon> did you try the stats function?
[18:29] <jcoxon> to see if that gives you an insight?
[18:29] <earthshine> not yet
[18:29] <earthshine> will try that next
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[18:30] <mattltm> Humm...
[18:31] <mattltm> I have a GPS problem :(
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> When did you first realise you had a GPS problem, and how has it affected your life?
[18:32] <MrCraig> Just wasted my camera :(
[18:32] <mattltm> This morning and it makes me feel dirty.
[18:32] <mattltm> :(
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> To complete the catalogue of woes, I dropped paint on my trousers.
[18:33] <MrCraig> :(
[18:33] <mattltm> Don't think my problem can be fised with some stain remover.
[18:33] <mattltm> *fixed
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> What died?
[18:33] <mattltm> Well I have the NTX2 working from an Arduino.
[18:34] <mattltm> Fitted the gps and got it sending strings.
[18:34] <mattltm> After the first few strings, the RTTY signal "blips".
[18:34] <mattltm> http://www.mattltm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ntx2-blip.jpg
[18:35] <mattltm> If I disconnect the power to the GPS, the RTTY carrier becomes stable again.
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> That is a bit odd.
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> Are you sure power supply is adequate?
[18:35] <mattltm> Thats what Im looking at now.
[18:35] <jcoxon> is that a 1hz blip?
[18:35] <mattltm> What dose an Arduino put out at 3.3v?
[18:36] <jcoxon> not that much
[18:36] <jcoxon> 150mA perhaps
[18:36] <jcoxon> i personally run them all of an external regulator
[18:36] <mattltm> jcoxon: more like a 50hz blip
[18:36] <mattltm> That was going to be my next move.
[18:36] <jcoxon> mattltm, antenna on ntx2?
[18:36] <SpeedEvil> Do you have any explicit or implicit ISRs?
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> At around 50hz
[18:37] <mattltm> 1/4 wave GP
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> Also - you're sure it's not mains hum?
[18:37] <mattltm> SpeedEvil: ISR's?
[18:37] <jcoxon> mattltm, what gps module?
[18:37] <jcoxon> mattltm, interrupts
[18:37] <mattltm> The Arduno is curently powered via USB.
[18:37] <mattltm> Its a Venus module
[18:37] <SpeedEvil> Explicit ISR = an intentional interrupt - implicit - something your libraries do
[18:38] <jcoxon> try the powersupply is my first thought
[18:38] <mattltm> SpeedEvil: Don't think so.
[18:39] <jcoxon> a txing ntx2 + gps will draw quite a bit of current
[18:39] <mattltm> I'll knock up a 3.3v regulated supply and see how that goes.
[18:43] <mattltm> Just found a nice 12v 1.25A supply to run the Arduino off. Lets see what that does.
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[18:45] <MNSP> Hello all :0)
[18:46] <mattltm> Hi :)
[18:46] <MNSP> alright matt?
[18:46] <mattltm> Good ta. How are you?
[18:47] <MNSP> yeah good too... just got in from work and am tinkering with my gizmos as soon as I got indoors
[18:47] <MNSP> sad, sad, sad :0)
[18:48] <mattltm> jcoxon: Yes. The power supply has solved the problem :)
[18:48] <MNSP> am tinkering btwn typing
[18:48] <mattltm> MNSP: Nothing wrong with that :)
[18:49] <MNSP> no mate, true
[18:51] <jcoxon> mattltm, hooray
[18:52] <mattltm> Out of interest, why does dl put the checksum, bearing and distance into the tob boxes but not the time, lat. long or alt?
[18:52] <jcoxon> as you haven't got a xml defined for your payload
[18:52] <mattltm> Ahh. How do I do that?
[18:52] <jcoxon> you ask kindly and give me an example string
[18:53] <mattltm> Oh, Pleeeeesssssssss :)
[18:53] <mattltm> Oh mighty dl loard.
[18:53] <mattltm> $$HABAT,43,18:52:46,51.42235,0.56025,37*6E12
[18:53] <jcoxon> example string?
[18:53] <jcoxon> thanks
[18:53] <jcoxon> please hold...
[18:54] Action: mattltm waits forthe music
[18:54] <mattltm> Can you have to config the RTTY settings to?
[18:54] <jcoxon> yes
[18:54] <jcoxon> as long as its not a custom shift
[18:54] <mattltm> Very cool.
[18:55] <MNSP> doop, do-doo, duh, doop doo <--- waiting music
[18:55] <jcoxon> settings/
[18:55] <jcoxon> ?
[18:55] <mattltm> 425 shift, 50 Baud, 7 Bits, no Parity
[18:55] <jcoxon> stop?
[18:55] <mattltm> 1.5
[18:56] <mattltm> Jcoxon: Has anyone told you that you rock today?
[18:57] <jcoxon> done
[18:57] <jcoxon> ummm not today
[18:57] <mattltm> Well then.... You rock :)
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[18:58] <jcoxon> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[18:58] <MrCraig> dead camera and almost zapped myself with the flash capacitor discharge, not having fun again lol
[18:58] <mattltm> Very nice.
[18:59] <mattltm> I guess its best to turn off the upload whilst testing?
[18:59] <jcoxon> yes please
[19:00] <mattltm> Good. All sorted. Thanks jcoxon.
[19:01] <jcoxon> np
[19:02] <MNSP> Right chaps, radio type question...
[19:02] <mattltm> Is there a way to make dl offline by default on startup?
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[19:02] <jcoxon> mattltm, sadly not
[19:03] <MNSP> how do I know what freq my cheap ebay transmitter is working at? Short of going through the entire range 315-433.92?
[19:03] <jcoxon> eek
[19:03] <mattltm> Thats worrying.
[19:04] <jcoxon> MNSP, link?
[19:04] <MNSP> I only just got it working with my arduino :0)
[19:04] <MNSP> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/298268955/NT_T02B_RF_transmitter.html
[19:04] <jcoxon> oh it'l be 315 or 433
[19:05] <mattltm> What is printed on it?
[19:05] <MNSP> Ah right... will go and try
[19:05] <mattltm> jcoxon: alt is not filling the box :(
[19:06] <jcoxon> should be :-p
[19:06] <mattltm> Strange.
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[19:06] <MNSP> Oooo, interesting
[19:07] <mattltm> is the format correct? $$HABAT,133,19:06:43,51.42245,0.56030,36*EE95
[19:07] <MNSP> D'oh it says 433 on the bloomin chip thingy
[19:07] <jcoxon> yeah looks it
[19:07] <jcoxon> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/habat.xml
[19:08] <MNSP> interesting, I'm hearing like marching soldier not the tones I was expecting like the example on UKHAS
[19:08] <jcoxon> MNSP, what format are you txing?
[19:09] <MNSP> am just using the basic tx virtual wire sketch for arduino
[19:10] <MrCraig> I got some marching soldiers, one turned out to be the GPS receiver interference.
[19:11] <MNSP> seems to turn of when I unplug battery to my board so am assuming its that which is generating it
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[19:12] <MNSP> I thought for a second you were gonna tell us a joke MrCraig
[19:13] <jcoxon> MNSP, i'm not sure how virtual wire protocol will sound
[19:13] <MrCraig> sorry, my sense of humour is dry but not this time.
[19:13] <jcoxon> that radio looks like an ON/OFF kind of setup
[19:13] <jcoxon> more for using Morse code with
[19:13] <MNSP> Its all cool, no problem jcoxon
[19:14] <MNSP> I just thought I'd ask the newbie questions
[19:14] <jcoxon> i'm just getting my head around virtualwire
[19:14] <MNSP> as I learn all this stuff from scratch
[19:14] <jcoxon> as hadn't ever looked into it in detail
[19:14] <mattltm> :( stil no alt :(
[19:14] <jcoxon> so its an ASK transmission
[19:14] <MNSP> well I know 27bytes max with vwire
[19:14] <jcoxon> mattltm, please record a wav and email me
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[19:16] <mattltm> How long?
[19:16] <jcoxon> 1 string will do
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[19:17] <mattltm> On its way :)
[19:18] <Zuph> spacefelix: Heh, possible Thursday flight, although the jetstream might be breaking up.
[19:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:18] <spacefelix> Awwww. :C
[19:18] <spacefelix> Zuph: Can we write stuff all over the payload for Mr. G and co?
[19:18] <Zuph> No, that's great for me, Thursday is the worst possible take-off date :-p
[19:18] <spacefelix> Or Mr S. and co?
[19:18] <spacefelix> LOL.
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[19:20] <jcoxon> mattltm, add another field to it
[19:20] <jcoxon> i reckon its just that its the last field
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[19:21] <mattltm> Ok, I'll add lock status.
[19:23] <mattltm> jcoxon: Does the xml need to be changed?
[19:24] <jcoxon> done
[19:24] <mattltm> Man, you are the king!
[19:24] <mattltm> Lets see how this goes.
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[19:25] <mattltm> Oh crap. Sorry jcoxon, it's 2 stop bits.
[19:25] <mattltm> Im a dumb ass!
[19:25] <mattltm> And it also works now.
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[19:26] <jcoxon> changed and no worries
[19:26] <mattltm> Ta. Now I can actualy get on with starting on the antenna tracker :)
[19:26] <fsphil> 2 stop bits are better than 1 -- but I've no idea why
[19:26] <mattltm> lol
[19:28] <mattltm> fsphil: blip was a power supply problem.
[19:28] <fsphil> aah, got it sorted?
[19:29] <mattltm> Yup thanks to jcoxon :)
[19:29] <mattltm> All working and running nicely :)
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[19:31] <mattltm> My payload is being picked up by M6JCX?
[19:31] <mattltm> Oh... I know :P
[19:31] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:31] <fsphil> lol
[19:31] <mattltm> lol
[19:31] <jcoxon> thats me testing that wav
[19:31] <fsphil> yea he's got a super antenna :p
[19:32] Action: mattltm has had a hard day at work
[19:32] <mattltm> jcoxon: Is there a way to get the raw data out of dl localy?
[19:33] <fsphil> actually rjharrison was able to pick up upu's payload, from eachothers house
[19:33] <jcoxon> sure it can log
[19:34] <jcoxon> though might be worth opening it in non-hab version
[19:34] <mattltm> Ok. I'll take a look.
[19:34] <fsphil> would it be worth adding a logging featuer jcoxon ? or is that planned for the habitat stuff?
[19:34] <mattltm> Be nice if there was one in the HAB version.
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[19:35] <fsphil> you're not the first to ask about it - could be useful
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[19:35] <fsphil> I suppose the RPC stuff could be extended with a few hab-specific commands
[19:35] <jcoxon> fsphil, fldigi has got logging capabilities
[19:36] <fsphil> it logs everything though
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[19:36] <mattltm> Im looking to get the lat,long and alt from payloads and feed it into a antenna tracker.
[19:36] <fsphil> could have an rpc command read from the lat and lng boxes
[19:36] <jcoxon> mattltm, you could take it to another level
[19:37] <mattltm> go on...
[19:37] <fsphil> ooh, or have fldigi drive the tracker
[19:37] <jcoxon> http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/lastpos.php
[19:37] <jcoxon> means that you can borrow other data
[19:37] <mattltm> Not loading for me
[19:37] <jcoxon> takes a little while
[19:38] <mattltm> And I would like a stand alone solution. No net access.
[19:38] <jcoxon> so if you lose track of your payload you can use hte latest coords off the system
[19:38] <jcoxon> okay then either use logging on dl-fldigi or we could add RPC calls to grab lat/lon/alt
[19:38] <mattltm> Maybe a "get latest position" option would be good.
[19:39] <jcoxon> will have a think
[19:39] <mattltm> RPC calls would be neet
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[19:48] <mattltm> I could watch this all day :0
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[19:50] <earthshine> jcoxon: weird. Stats = 0, 0, 0
[19:50] <jcoxon> earthshine, are you polling the GPS?
[19:53] <mattltm> Right. time for a celebratory cup of tea! Thanks jcoxon. See you all later :)
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[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> ohh
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[20:06] <earthshine> jcoxon: yes. I am now getting numbers for the first value
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[20:20] <earthshine> just trying to get lock again
[20:20] <earthshine> took 10 mins then some dickhead pulled my cable out
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[20:23] <fsphil> eek
[20:24] <fsphil> I'm always nervous when the gps is first trying to lock ...
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[20:28] <earthshine> i'm indoors in a big concrete and steel structure so its having difficulty
[20:28] <earthshine> it takes a while
[20:29] <jcoxon> earthshine, so was it that you weren't polling the gps?
[20:29] <earthshine> it was being polled
[20:29] <jcoxon> oh right
[20:29] <jcoxon> any idea what was wrong/
[20:30] <earthshine> well it isnt working yet
[20:30] <earthshine> just waiting for lock again
[20:30] <earthshine> it took about 10-15 mins last time
[20:30] <jcoxon> getting time?
[20:30] <earthshine> yeah
[20:30] <jcoxon> okay well its working
[20:30] <jcoxon> :)
[20:31] <earthshine> yeah
[20:31] <earthshine> its hard to get lock here
[20:31] <earthshine> i'm at London Hackspace
[20:31] <jcoxon> cool
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[20:31] <earthshine> its those windows with like a chicken wire metal grifd embedded in them
[20:31] <earthshine> grid
[20:31] <earthshine> the securyt glass stuff
[20:31] <jcoxon> yeah
[20:32] <earthshine> which makes it a pig for antennas
[20:32] <Zuph> Just being in the urban jungle sucks for gps.
[20:32] <earthshine> yeah
[20:33] <earthshine> it also doesnt he;p i am using a USB cable about 10 feet long
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[20:42] <spacefelix> 2 more years until NASA's nexy big program. :P
[20:42] <spacefelix> For now, we work with SpaceX.
[20:42] <spacefelix> It's all with them now.
[20:44] <earthshine> ?
[20:45] <spacefelix> Just met with our management.
[20:45] <spacefelix> Pretty much what they said.
[20:45] <fsphil> I'm actually amazed it's working at all in those conditions earthshine
[20:45] <earthshine> it's only picking up at max 4 satellites
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[20:46] <fsphil> still with those kind of windows, you're effectively living in a pretty good rf shield :)
[20:46] <earthshine> yeah#
[20:46] <fsphil> it's a good sign
[20:46] <earthshine> it would be better to have it transmit the data back over an Xbee or something
[20:46] <earthshine> for testing purposes
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[20:46] <fsphil> xbee's are nifty
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[20:49] <earthshine> yeah
[20:50] <W0OTM> crappy range
[20:50] <earthshine> i only need about 15 feet
[20:50] <W0OTM> then disregard my comment
[20:51] <earthshine> it's just so I can have the GPS outside whilst I receive the data inside
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[21:07] <earthshine> very flaky internet today
[21:07] <earthshine> when are we getting this new router?
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[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> earthshine today I got my labwasteltd box
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[21:28] <earthshine> whats that?
[21:29] <MNSP> Evening all :)
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[21:38] <fsphil> evnin!
[21:39] <hibby> ayeaye
[21:39] <mattltm> I is bak yes.
[21:39] <fsphil> be afears!
[21:40] <MNSP> I and I
[21:40] <mattltm> me and me massive stains
[21:40] <mattltm> I mean stains massive.
[21:41] Action: fsphil disconnected cables when clearing out the shed, but stupidly didn't document what goes where
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[21:41] <MNSP> staines even?
[21:41] <mattltm> not, its a bit spread out.
[21:41] <mattltm> :P
[21:42] <mattltm> fsphil: If it's rf just plug it in anywhere.
[21:42] <fsphil> there was a teacher in my old school called Mr. Stains
[21:42] <MNSP> its okay fsphil, you don't need to explain yourself to us ;)
[21:43] <mattltm> lol
[21:43] <fsphil> worse than that was Mr. Thick -- who lived up to his name
[21:43] <MNSP> nicely carried on
[21:43] <fsphil> :p
[21:44] <fsphil> Our maintenance guy in the factory is called Mr. Toner .. unfortunately he doesn't know anything about printers
[21:44] <fsphil> printers are evil
[21:45] <fsphil> RF would be handy mattltm, some are 12V and some are composite video :)
[21:45] <mattltm> nice.
[21:46] <fsphil> ah well.. 50/50 ...
[21:46] <mattltm> So long as the smoke dosen't escape...
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[21:48] <fsphil> well... no smoke so far
[21:51] <earthshine> i give up trying to get a lock in this place
[21:51] <hibby> no smoke without fire ;)
[21:52] <mattltm> Not unless it'sblue smoke.
[21:53] <MNSP> Isn't that a pope has been decided on?
[21:54] <mattltm> A pope with a soldering iorn.
[21:54] <MNSP> a holy iron
[21:55] <mattltm> Na, thats what he uses to smooth out his underpants.
[21:55] <MNSP> so what does he use to straighten his hair?
[21:56] <mattltm> Holy Trinnity Tongs?
[21:58] <mattltm> Anyways...
[21:58] <mattltm> Did you get your mast fsphil?
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[22:00] <Yonas_> Hello! didn't think that so many peoples might be on this channel :)
[22:00] <mattltm> Hi Yonas_
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Hello.
[22:00] <MNSP> alright yonas_
[22:01] <Yonas_> anyone from russia or nearby?
[22:02] Action: SpeedEvil is from Scotland.
[22:02] <Yonas_> Lithuania or Poland
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[22:02] <Yonas_> or even Belarus\
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> Greece I think there is someone
[22:03] <MNSP> hmmm think its mostly UK people at the moment
[22:03] <SpeedEvil> I think that's the closesrt.
[22:03] <MNSP> thought we had some nordic/scandanavian sorts?
[22:04] Action: SpeedEvil isn't properly awake.
[22:05] <MNSP> Sorry Yonas_ looks like your stuck with us lot
[22:07] <Yonas_> there is question about nozzle lift
[22:07] <Yonas_> as said in http://kaymont.com/pages/sounding-balloons.cfm
[22:07] <Yonas_> for KCl 600 Nozzle Lift (gr) is 1120
[22:08] <MNSP> am off for a ciggy brb
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[22:09] <fsphil> (victory! no boom :)
[22:10] <Yonas_> Does it mean that it ascent with maximum 1120 gr payload? But ascent velocity rate would be small (about 1 m/s)?
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> Firefox 4 ROCKS!
[22:11] <mattltm> Lunar: Yes it does.
[22:11] <Yonas_> Have anyone practice with panoramic photo on HAB?
[22:12] <fsphil> not sure Yonas_ but that would be a good guess
[22:12] <LazyLeopard> <Ivanova> "No Boom? No boom _today_. Boom tomorrow. There is always a boom tomorrow."
[22:13] <fsphil> "Ivanova is God..."
[22:13] <Yonas_> fsphil: good guess=good expirience?
[22:13] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[22:14] Action: MNSP is back
[22:14] <Yonas_> Who is Ivanova?
[22:14] <fsphil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xO9Vr_nBE8
[22:15] <Yonas_> :D
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[22:16] <Lunar_Lander> Yonas_ one moment please
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> the UKHAS FAQ says "What's the Point?" and then the answer is "This" and when you click "This", you get here: http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_half.jpg
[22:17] <fsphil> I'm not sure what the definition of nozzel lift is
[22:17] <fsphil> it really depends on how much helium is in the balloon
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> RocketBoy told me that you shouldn't make the payload heavier than that or you risk balloon failure
[22:17] <Lunar_Lander> anyways, those charts are made for a certain payload weight and a certain ascent rate
[22:21] <Yonas_> when i recalc values by myself I get calm. I don't trust manufacturer specs.
[22:22] <Yonas_> fsphil>you are from Sweden, right?
[22:22] <fsphil> close .. N.Ireland :)
[22:23] <Yonas_> really close ))
[22:23] <fsphil> I'm connected to a swedish server
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[22:24] <MNSP> not that its any help, but I have a polish neighbour
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[22:26] <Yonas_> I'm from Russia and the first who published my hab experience in my country. I live in Kaliningrad - exclave - so I have a problem frontier.
[22:27] <Laurenceb> was it formerly called Stalingrad?
[22:27] Action: Laurenceb fails at geography
[22:28] <Laurenceb> oh no thats Volgograd
[22:28] <Yonas_> no, it became russian teritory after WW2
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> Yonas_ next to Estonia, right?
[22:30] <Yonas_> yes and no.
[22:30] <Yonas_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalingrad
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:33] <Yonas_> http://www.reedline.com/Workout/geoimages/kaliningradmap.gif
[22:34] <Laurenceb> eek the climate chart
[22:34] <Laurenceb> -33.3C
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> but there were no amateur balloon flights in russia as yet I think?
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> you would be first Yonas_
[22:39] <Laurenceb> natrium42 is from russia, but he lives in Canada
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> I know
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> so he is flying in CDN
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[22:41] <natrium42> Yonas_: did you already fly something in russia?
[22:42] <Yonas_> yes
[22:42] <natrium42> cool, got a site?
[22:43] <Yonas_> my report written in russia on geek's site
[22:43] <Yonas_> url http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/DIY/107452/
[22:44] <Yonas_> you can translate in google
[22:45] <Yonas_> what does mean "CDN"?
[22:45] <natrium42> content delivery network?
[22:46] <natrium42> i can read russian :P
[22:46] <Yonas_> [00:41] <Lunar_Lander> so he is flying in CDN
[22:46] <natrium42> oh, canada
[22:46] <MNSP> good old google translate
[22:46] <MNSP> http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/DIY/107452/&ei=cyaJTYe7Is6YhQeO1aC0Dg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://habrahabr.ru/blogs/DIY/107452/%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1144%26bih%3D664%26prmd%3Divns
[22:47] <MNSP> good stuff Yonas_
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[22:50] <Yonas_> anyone on this cnannel who created or maintain http://habhub.org/ ?
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[22:51] <natrium42> Yonas_: yeah
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[22:52] <Yonas_> 0 ?>-@CAA:8 <>6=>?
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[22:53] <natrium42> english is better in the main channel, but russian is possible in PM if it'ts easier for you :)
[22:53] <Laurenceb> heh google translate
[22:53] <Laurenceb> "Fotik Canon A470 with a full meat"
[22:53] <natrium42> Yonas_: nice pictures and writeup!
[22:53] <natrium42> did you use spot1 or spot2?
[22:54] <Yonas_> first one
[22:54] <Yonas_> Fotik=Camera
[22:54] <jcoxon> natrium42, link?
[22:54] <jcoxon> evening all
[22:54] <natrium42> we have been modding spot1 to use a better gps chipset and to send altitude data
[22:54] <fsphil> very nice pictures
[22:54] <Yonas_> wow
[22:54] <natrium42> http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/DIY/107452/
[22:55] <Yonas_> "we have been modding" - article?
[22:55] <natrium42> Yonas_: there are two ways to hack it, if you are interested
[22:55] <jcoxon> natrium42, i ran my hacked spot over night in a window behind double glazing and got 15 messages through
[22:55] <natrium42> i tried one way and jcoxon a different way
[22:55] <natrium42> http://natrium42.com/projects/spot/
[22:55] <natrium42> jcoxon: oh, awesome
[22:56] <jcoxon> Yonas_, i haven't documented my hack yet as i'm still working on it
[22:56] <jcoxon> natrium42, havent' decided which is best :-p
[22:56] <Laurenceb> only just cleared the trees
[22:56] <natrium42> jcoxon: the gps line hack seems to be more reliable
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[22:56] <jcoxon> Yonas_, feel free to add your link to our wiki: http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:projects
[22:56] <natrium42> the full hack seems to have changed performance
[22:56] <jcoxon> natrium42, yes i'd agree
[22:57] <Laurenceb> Yonas_: how are you making it float?
[22:57] <jcoxon> only a flight will work
[22:59] <Yonas_> and i think it won't work with alt higher than 18 km
[22:59] <jcoxon> Yonas_, yeah with our spot hacks we can use what ever gps we want
[22:59] <jcoxon> so now it can work above 18km
[23:00] <natrium42> yeah, it was a limitation of the gps chipset they used
[23:00] <fsphil> you caught the balloon on the way down?
[23:00] <fsphil> I think that's a first
[23:01] <Yonas_> no
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> you mean witnessing the landing?
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil ?
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> that was done by EOSS once
[23:01] <fsphil> the second video.. it shows the balloon slowly descending
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> EOSS once had a recovery in bad rain
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> and suddenly the chute came through the clouds and landed on the roadside
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[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> and they filmed it because they had a good position fix and were there in the right moment
[23:03] <fsphil> I mean actually catching it -- I know the horus guys got close a few times
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[23:04] <Yonas_> the first launch was just fly - do u see that ballon is safe?
[23:04] <fsphil> yea -- love the cheers as it cleared the tree line :)
[23:04] <Yonas_> cause there was not enough helium to lift
[23:05] <natrium42> Lunar_Lander: juxta almost caught a payload once, i believe
[23:05] <fsphil> that makes sense
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:05] <natrium42> :D
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> wasn't that the one that fell in the sea?
[23:05] <fsphil> there's a great picture of him chasing it somewhere
[23:05] <Yonas_> it was my mistake - i bought worst helium
[23:05] <natrium42> no, that's a different one
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[23:07] <fsphil> here it is: http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/IMG_09331.jpg
[23:07] <fsphil> Horus 3
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[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> YAY!
[23:08] <Lunar_Lander> cool picture
[23:08] <fsphil> so close !
[23:09] <MNSP> who is that running along?
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[23:10] <fsphil> juxta I think
[23:13] <MrCraig> Since I nuked my camera today, can anyone recommend a cheap (as in disposable in case it's lost) compact that's not too difficult to hack or has an interval?
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[23:13] <fsphil> eek -- it go boom?
[23:14] <MrCraig> no sign of the smoke, just stopped responding
[23:14] <fsphil> any canon camera that supports chdk is a good choice
[23:14] <fsphil> easy to have a script on it to take regular images
[23:14] <MrCraig> I think maybe I shorted the flash cap against the power? maybe.
[23:15] <MrCraig> chdk is that software thing to mod cannons right?
[23:15] <fsphil> yep
[23:15] <fsphil> the a560 I have it's just a matter of putting the files on to the SD card, and setting the read only tab
[23:15] <fsphil> unset the read-only tab and it works as a normal camera again
[23:15] <MNSP> raw images with a point and shoot, etc
[23:15] <MrCraig> if the read only tab is set, how does it save images?
[23:16] <fsphil> the camera only uses the read-only tab as a flag to load a program from the card
[23:16] <fsphil> you'd set it to update the firmware for example
[23:16] <MrCraig> ahh, so it'll still write to the SD - I see.
[23:16] <fsphil> yea
[23:17] <fsphil> I think a few have got it to take regular video clips too but I couldn't get that working
[23:17] <MrCraig> Well that's 7.1 so image quality should be good, I presume I can get the files from you for that model? and there's one on ebay buy it now
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[23:18] <fsphil> well .. yea .. *ahem* .. I kinda didn't back up the script, and the cards in yorkshire ...
[23:18] <MrCraig> ooooh, that one
[23:18] <fsphil> but it's really simple and I should be able to make it again
[23:18] <fsphil> it was closely based on an example script, with a few changes to turn on power saving bits
[23:18] <MrCraig> Is it a known syntax? I have some concern just about getting it going in time
[23:19] <fsphil> you should have no problem with it
[23:20] <fsphil> I had it taking a picture every 10 seconds - you could probably lower that to save disk space and battery power
[23:21] <MrCraig> well it makes perfect sense but I'm going to have to put it on my watch list and hope it's still there in two days - budget wise I should wait until I'm paid now.
[23:21] <MrCraig> did you get any battery life duration data on it? (as in any idea how long that lasted?)
[23:21] <fsphil> I'll see if I can resurrect the script
[23:22] <fsphil> my test with two new lithium batteries had it running for about 12 hours
[23:22] <fsphil> but that was in a dark room - there wasn't much image data. not sure if that would make any difference
[23:22] <MrCraig> thankyou fsphil, it would save me hacking the hardware at all and save me modifying the flight computer software to drive it too - that's a real time saver and convenience.
[23:23] <MrCraig> I'd presume 12 hours in a dark room couldn't reduce much beneath a 3 hour daylight flight.
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[23:24] <NigelMoby> Meh
[23:25] <MrCraig> So on your payload, how frequently did / do you transmit a hab string?
[23:26] <fsphil> once between image data
[23:26] <MrCraig> or what is typical - I'm not sure I should transmit for every GPGGA I get from the GPS because that's about once a second I'd guess? (giving for transmission rate that'd be about every 2 seconds a string goes out)
[23:26] <fsphil> then continuously on the way down
[23:26] <jcoxon> MrCraig, its probably easier to tx continously
[23:26] <MrCraig> oh programmed it to watch altitude.
[23:27] <jcoxon> a little naughty as you shouldn't really have 100% duty
[23:28] <jcoxon> for a normal flight though its fine, and battery life won't be an issue
[23:28] <MrCraig> jcoxon: well it is the simplest method - it sits listening for a GPGGA which it buffers, and then it transmits and returns to waiting for GPGGA again. Or else I could stick it in a GPGGA receive loop and once every few seconds I can interrupt that loop to transmit the most recent.
[23:28] <MrCraig> ok great.
[23:28] <MrCraig> thanks
[23:28] <jcoxon> are you going to tx the GPGGA directly or mould it into your own string?
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[23:29] <MrCraig> I'm translating it to HAB protocol
[23:29] <jcoxon> okay
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[23:29] <jcoxon> as 50 baud does take a bit of time once i've finished txing i then use the next gps string
[23:29] <jcoxon> and loop it like that
[23:30] <MrCraig> I need to tweak the software a little and to actually get a GPS lock is still to happen, the weekend set me a delay or two so I'm modding this week and trying range tests this weekend.
[23:30] <MrCraig> ahh, that's exactly how I have it configured now too.
[23:30] <fsphil> can I recommend that you transmit a few extra characters before your string MrCraig, as the first few characters can be lost - esp. with the higher baud rates
[23:30] <jcoxon> fsphil, i'd only do that if you aren't txing continously
[23:31] <jcoxon> otherwise it should be fine
[23:31] <jcoxon> MrCraig, on a side note you can actually tx the GPGGA string directly - it will actually work
[23:31] <jcoxon> i wrote a xml file for it
[23:31] <jcoxon> :-p
[23:31] <MrCraig> I wish I knew that before I wrote the HAB translation :-)
[23:31] <jcoxon> i don't receommend it as it misses quite useful data
[23:31] <fsphil> just waiting for a gps device that does 50 baud eh? :)
[23:32] <jcoxon> fsphil, haha
[23:32] <MrCraig> well as it happens, all that would be needed is a GPS device that you can modify the firmware on :)
[23:33] <jcoxon> night all
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[23:33] <MrCraig> wow - jc's a fast leaver
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[23:39] <fsphil> never hangs about!
[23:39] <fsphil> probably a good thing in his line of work
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[23:40] <MrCraig> what does he do?
[23:40] <fsphil> doctor
[23:40] <fsphil> hiya juxta
[23:40] <MrCraig> aah, wow
[23:41] <MrCraig> hi juxta
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[23:41] <juxta> morning fsphil, MrCraig
[23:42] <MrCraig> one last thing - twine, I was thinking of just using regular old string with a fishing swivel to minimise spin, and I was also planning to place the payload on at an angle with the camera slightly downward facing (and adjusting the rig accounting for center of gravity being directly beneath the load line)
[23:42] <MrCraig> that all sound sensible?
[23:43] <juxta> try to use some woven nylon cord
[23:43] <fsphil> it'll probably spin no matter how you attach it
[23:43] <juxta> twine might unwind
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> my labwasteltd box came today
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> I just weighed it
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> 730 g
[23:44] <fsphil> yoikes!
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:44] <MrCraig> nylon cord - ok cool - and yeah I assume it'll spin but I thought perhaps translation of spin between the balloon and the payload would be a problem.
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> it's the big one
[23:44] <MrCraig> wow that's a chunk
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> the one with 30 cm length on the outside and 22.5 on the inside
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[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> so the walls are pretty thick
[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> maybe making the walls thinner is a good idea?
[23:45] <fsphil> MrCraig, depends on the conditions at the time too - I've seen some really smooth video, very little spin. and other are just mental
[23:46] <juxta> I've been experimenting with fins and things to keep the payload straight
[23:46] <juxta> seems to work reasonably well
[23:47] <MrCraig> tempted to add a fin - but if I'm making better time now I think trying to tie in a mobile phone motherboard is a more productive way to spend the time.
[23:47] <MrCraig> though a fin should be quite straight forwards.
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:48] Action: Lunar_Lander tries to work through the shock from the weighing
[23:48] <fsphil> I'd love to know what the polystyrene I have is -- I'm running out :)
[23:48] <fsphil> it's very light
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:48] <fsphil> but needs to be made manually, scraping it out
[23:48] <fsphil> which is no fun
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> do you think that cutting the walls thinner is a good idea?
[23:49] <fsphil> would do no harm
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> after all they are 7 cm thick now
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[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> a few cm less will be not dangerous
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[23:55] <MrCraig> what are you basing the width on Lunar_Lander?
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> what exactly do you mean?
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[23:59] <MrCraig> well do you have a formula for working it out or something? or are you just trying to decide how much material you need to firmly contain everything?
[00:00] --- Wed Mar 23 2011