highaltitude.log.20110313

[00:03] <mattltm> Bedtime for me :(
[00:05] mattltm (mattltm@92.7.207.234) left irc:
[00:22] <W0OTM> what is the expansion rate of He as it ascends?
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> It's approximately an ideal gas.
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> P1V1=P2V2
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> So 1/10ththe pressure, 10* thevolume
[00:24] <W0OTM> so it expands 10x?
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> yes
[00:25] <SpeedEvil> At 1/10th the pressure
[00:26] <W0OTM> at what Alt?
[00:26] <W0OTM> 100K ft?
[00:26] <W0OTM> 200K ft?
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> Look up standard atmosphere on wikipedia
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> From memory, it hits 1/10th around 18km
[00:27] <W0OTM> http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/
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[00:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi W0OTM and juxta
[01:01] <W0OTM> Hi Lunar_Lander
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[01:11] <juxta> morning Lunar_Lander
[01:11] <Lunar_Lander> how's life on the southern half?
[01:13] <juxta> sleepy
[01:13] <juxta> :)
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[01:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD here too
[01:16] <Lunar_Lander> but I am talking to Dan of the WhiteStar project right now
[01:16] <Dan-K2VOL> juxta, join us if you want
[01:17] <juxta> sure - mumble?
[01:19] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[01:19] <Dan-K2VOL> yep
[01:22] <juxta> just setting it up now
[01:32] <juxta> Lunar_Lander, I think I heard you just now
[01:32] <juxta> lets see if it works
[01:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[01:33] <juxta> did that work Lunar_Lander?
[01:33] <Lunar_Lander> no
[01:33] <juxta> oh
[01:34] <SAIDias> do zero pressure balloons expland as they ascend?
[01:36] <Darkside> mumble?
[01:36] <Darkside> you should do an IRLP link :D
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> SAIDias: yes
[01:38] <SpeedEvil> Zero pressure refers to zero differential pressure ont he envelope
[01:38] <SAIDias> SpeedEvil: im JUST not believing a 50:1 expansion
[01:39] <SAIDias> SpeedEvil: all the photos I see of a zero pressure balloon I don't see how there is 50x expansion available
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> SAIDias: Sucks to be you.
[01:39] <SpeedEvil> Volume, not linear size.
[01:40] <SAIDias> SpeedEvil: im not following
[01:40] <SpeedEvil> When you go high enough, atmospheic pressure drops to 2% of nominal
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> sea-level
[01:41] <SpeedEvil> A zero pressure envelope needs to expand 50*
[01:42] <SAIDias> so a 1 cubic meter box would expand 50X?
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> to 50m^3
[01:42] <SAIDias> so would be 50 cubic meters?
[01:42] <SpeedEvil> Or about 3.?m orso on a side
[01:50] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[02:53] <Darkside> PANPANPAN
[02:53] <Darkside> need help with spacenear.us
[02:55] <Darkside> craaaap everyone is asleep :<
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[04:07] <MrCraig> Morning to anyone awake :)
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[04:30] <vin3r> Does anyone know where I can find a NTX2 in the US?
[04:31] <vin3r> I cannot find a US supplier which leads me to believe that i would run into license issues using it here.
[04:32] <vin3r> Can anyone confirm my suspicions?
[04:32] <MrCraig> I think you're here at an hour in which the UK population is sleeping
[04:32] <MrCraig> except me, I'm ill. I have no idea what the regs are in the US
[04:46] Action: MrCraig just got the software uart working :)
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[05:01] <SamSilver> morning
[05:02] <SamSilver> Where did bill get the hypersonic balloon from?
[05:05] <SamSilver> 56.3 m/s climb as well
[05:05] <SamSilver> I need on of them!
[05:05] <SamSilver> *one
[05:47] <juxta|console> dd/
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[08:37] <Upu> morning
[08:37] <jcoxon> morning
[08:40] <jcoxon> looks like the sim is still running
[08:41] <natrium42> yo
[08:41] <jcoxon> hey natrium42
[08:41] <jcoxon> natrium42: i've been thinking...
[08:41] <jcoxon> the plan with whitestar is to have the orbcomm and hf data merge
[08:42] <jcoxon> as in the orbcomm data appear as another listening station
[08:42] <jcoxon> potentially we are going to have serious issues due to the nature of sat data being delayed
[08:44] <jcoxon> for spacenear.us you are using server arrival time to order the points
[08:44] <jcoxon> ?
[08:45] <natrium42> let me see
[08:47] <natrium42> server time, but it's possible to swtich it to whatever
[08:47] <jcoxon> so hf will have gps time
[08:47] <jcoxon> orbcomm has epoch time
[08:48] <jcoxon> i guess if we line up epoch to real time
[08:48] <natrium42> unix epoch?
[08:48] <jcoxon> flight epoch
[08:48] <natrium42> well, if you get the correct time out to spacenear.us
[08:48] <natrium42> then i can switch it to gps_time
[08:49] <natrium42> payloads have been buggy in the past
[08:49] <jcoxon> i appreciate that
[08:49] <natrium42> you only need to modify insertPostition() in index.php
[08:49] <jcoxon> okay
[08:49] <jcoxon> i'll see if i can rig my script to align epoch time
[08:50] <jcoxon> the really big issue is that I'm not really going to able to test this until the launch
[08:50] <natrium42> what about sending test data to your script?
[08:50] <natrium42> or you don't know how it looks like?
[08:50] <jcoxon> the problem is that hte HF tx'er has its own gps
[08:51] <jcoxon> oh i'll be able to test the changes i makes sure
[08:51] <jcoxon> but a proper real world test won't happen until launch
[08:51] <jcoxon> eek
[08:51] <natrium42> :S
[08:51] <natrium42> maybe we should add a way for us to refresh the tracker
[08:51] <jcoxon> is that possible?
[08:52] <jcoxon> also when they launch shall we block other payloads
[08:52] <natrium42> sure,we just set a value on for 1 minute or something
[08:52] <natrium42> and javascript refreshes page if it sees that
[08:52] <jcoxon> actually we don't need to block - the public will be viewing track.whitestarballoon.org which filters out everything else
[08:53] <jcoxon> yeah i think that would be a good idea then
[08:53] <natrium42> yeah
[08:53] <jcoxon> allow us to clean up the track if dirty and then autorefresh everyone's page
[08:53] <natrium42> right
[08:54] <natrium42> or if there are any bugs we need to hotfix :)
[08:54] <jcoxon> exactly
[08:54] <jcoxon> track.whitestar should perhaps have this as well
[08:54] <jcoxon> the only issue is surely the server traffic will be suddenly very high
[08:55] <natrium42> i'd add it to some existing stream
[08:55] <natrium42> the tracker already has 3 streams :S
[08:55] <natrium42> should have done it all in one...
[08:55] <natrium42> (positions, predictions, listeners)
[08:55] <jcoxon> hehe
[08:56] <jcoxon> its just evolved
[08:56] <jcoxon> one day habitat will be released :-p
[08:56] <natrium42> honestly it just needs to DIAF
[08:56] <jcoxon> bless it
[08:56] <natrium42> yeah, i was looking at the design DanielRichman and Randomskk came up with
[08:56] <natrium42> it's awesome
[08:58] <jcoxon> they'll get there...
[08:59] <jcoxon> for now we'll just keep patching up spacenear.us
[08:59] <jcoxon> natrium42: oh with my SPoT i've got it completely working
[08:59] <jcoxon> using a second arduino to do hardware serial and generate the nmea strings
[08:59] <jcoxon> with i2c comms in between
[09:00] <jcoxon> (the flight computer and spot arduino)
[09:02] <jcoxon> okay bbl
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[09:21] <rjharrison> ping natrium42
[09:21] <rjharrison> Hey juxta I'm going to sort out the db and the code for you
[09:22] <juxta|console> hey Rob - thanks!
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[09:22] <rjharrison> juxta do you have a recent version of the tracker
[09:23] <rjharrison> Im going to tidy the code up a bit in the listener and upgrade the tracker so that it works with historical flight data
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[09:24] <juxta|console> rjharrison: i was planning on just pulling the current live tracker
[09:24] <rjharrison> is that in the public domain or off space
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[09:24] <juxta|console> the one on spacenear.us
[09:25] <juxta|console> natrium42: that's what you'd suggested, right?
[09:41] <natrium42> yep
[09:41] <natrium42> i dunno if it worth it to set up a git repo
[09:42] <natrium42> as habhub is going to replace everything
[09:43] <rjharrison> natrium42 true eventually
[09:44] <rjharrison> natrium42 can I steal a version of the tracker and do a quick integrating with the listener for juxta
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[09:44] <rjharrison> iirc there are about 10 lines of code that I change
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[09:48] <GW8RAK> Morning All. A question about power supplies.
[09:49] <GW8RAK> What do you use?
[09:49] <rjharrison> 4xAA lithium ultimates by energizer
[09:49] <mattltm> What for?
[09:49] <rjharrison> HAB I assume
[09:50] <GW8RAK> 6 lithium cells in series to give higher volts and voltage regs as appropriate or rig them in parallel, longer life and use low drop out regulators?
[09:50] <GW8RAK> rjharrison, do you then use a voltage reg down to 3.3V?
[09:51] <natrium42> rjharrison: sure, do you have the login?
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[09:52] <rjharrison> natrium42 yep juxta just rminded me of the finer detail it's been a while
[09:52] <rjharrison> I have tared up tracker
[09:53] <natrium42> kk
[09:53] <rjharrison> I left a copy with two previouse ones in the homedir from last year. I used the same naming convention
[09:53] <rjharrison> you will see them as tracker-xxxxxx.tar.bz2
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[10:52] <rjharrison> natrium42 I seem to have refreshing running forever though data.php quickly completes any ideas come to mind before I start my debug?
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[11:10] <Upu> morning rjharrison
[11:11] <rjharrison> hi Upu
[11:12] <Upu> so when you seeing the chap from the CAA ?
[11:12] <rjharrison> I guess you're just waiting to launch now
[11:12] <Upu> well I reckon a month or so
[11:12] <rjharrison> Hopefully the week after next
[11:12] <Upu> until the weather is decent
[11:12] <Upu> but yeah I think I'm set
[11:13] <Upu> just working on my foundation exam
[11:13] <Upu> well that said they've told me to do the intermediate at the same time
[11:15] <Upu> I'm making a folded stacked dipole for the house so I can track without having to go outside in the cold :)
[11:20] <mattltm> Upu: Welcome to the dark side :)
[11:20] <Upu> lol
[11:20] <Upu> yeah your fault
[11:20] <mattltm> Folede stacks rock!
[11:21] <Upu> I've ordered some rods anyway
[11:21] <mattltm> You want the correct values for the feeder lengths and stacking distances?
[11:21] <fsphil> nah, they're over-rated :p
[11:21] <Upu> they are on your site aren't they ?
[11:22] <mattltm> fsphil: Your just upsed because it doesn't matter what you put in the air, you still don't get any signal :P
[11:22] <mattltm> The stacking data is not.
[11:22] <fsphil> I get satellites :p
[11:22] <mattltm> But it will be :)
[11:22] <Upu> yes please
[11:22] <Upu> and some nice wiring diagrams if possible
[11:22] <Upu> It think I get it
[11:22] <mattltm> Yes sir :)
[11:22] <fsphil> actually I'm hearing nothing today at all .. some faint chatter on 15m
[11:23] <mattltm> A few SOTA spots so far this morning :)
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[11:28] <fsphil> actually looks like it's going to be a nice day here
[11:29] <mattltm> Overcast here :(
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> Also here.
[11:29] <mattltm> I was thinking about going up to the roof and installing the crossed turnstyle WX sat antenna
[11:32] <fsphil> I may have a play with the hf vertical, see if I can improve things
[11:32] <mattltm> did you get a 9:1 unun?
[11:32] <Upu> let me know when you update the page mattltm
[11:32] <Upu> be interested
[11:32] <fsphil> I did mattltm, have it on the end of a long wire but haven't tried it on the vertical yet
[11:32] <mattltm> Upu: No probs. I'll see if I can do it today :)
[11:33] <Upu> no rush don't have the materials yet :)
[11:33] <mattltm> My HTC has gone off for repair so no cam at the moment :(
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[11:34] <mattltm> fsphil: You have a fibreglass fishing pole?
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[11:35] <fsphil> nah, the wire is between my window a nearby tree
[11:36] <mattltm> Got a spare ballon? I have always fancied having a go at a baloon lifted 160M endfed :)
[11:36] <fsphil> I do actually lol
[11:36] <fsphil> don't think I have 160m of wire though
[11:37] <mattltm> 40M is very active:)
[11:37] <fsphil> lemme have a scan... bet I hear nothing
[11:37] <mattltm> 7.15030
[11:38] <fsphil> hear that
[11:38] <mattltm> Opps - Clai was on... 7.15000
[11:38] <fsphil> 7.150
[11:38] <fsphil> just about
[11:38] <mattltm> 9 +10 on my doublet....
[11:38] <mattltm> 9 +20 on the 40M single band vertical
[11:39] <fsphil> just about hear them, S8 noise
[11:40] <mattltm> Get out there in the sun and knock up a 40M vertical :)
[11:40] <mattltm> 10M of wire up..
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[11:40] <fsphil> 7.142 is a bit stronger
[11:40] <mattltm> As many 10M long radials as you can lay on the ground
[11:41] <fsphil> I've nothing 10m high to hold it up .. the vertical I'm using now is 5m tall
[11:41] <fsphil> in theory it should be great for 20m :)
[11:41] <mattltm> a simple choke balun at the feed point and cut the vertical wire for lowest SWR :)
[11:43] <mattltm> I use a 10M fishing pole for mine.
[11:43] Action: SpeedEvil has a bamboo 8m mast.
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> Made from lots of 2.4m bamboo cases
[11:43] <mattltm> Bamboo for FTW!
[11:43] <fsphil> hmmm.. I could plant some sunflowers ... may take a while though
[11:44] <mattltm> I have some magic beans fsphil. Will trade for a donkey.
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: I can sell you a magic invisible donkey.
[11:44] <mattltm> No wait, my court order says no unsupervised contact with donkeys.
[11:44] <fsphil> ack, I just traded the donkey for a curry rice
[11:45] <mattltm> Not after that incident an the zoo.
[11:45] <fsphil> mmm.. curry
[11:45] <mattltm> mmm.. donkey curry.
[11:45] <mattltm> 7.12850
[11:46] <fsphil> deep in the noise again
[11:46] <fsphil> I think the noise is probably what's getting me
[11:46] <mattltm> http://www.sandpiperaerials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_29&products_id=194
[11:46] <mattltm> What antenna is that on fsphil?
[11:46] <fsphil> 5m vertical
[11:47] <fsphil> but no balun, which may be my flaw
[11:47] <mattltm> Through an ATU?
[11:47] <fsphil> nope - but I'm not TX'ing
[11:47] <mattltm> With radials?
[11:47] <fsphil> raised up 2m, with a few radials coming off
[11:47] <mattltm> I see.
[11:48] <mattltm> A doublet is a nice low noise option.
[11:48] <fsphil> not so sure it would suit me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublet_%28clothing%29
[11:49] <mattltm> Nice.
[11:49] <fsphil> maybe if I get my time machine working
[11:49] <mattltm> Lol. Just listening to a guy talking about how he was refused planning for a 12M mast..
[11:50] <mattltm> so he went and got a 33M trailer mast, parked it on his drive and used that insted!
[11:50] <mattltm> Portable so no planning needed :)
[11:50] <fsphil> lol - that's fox-like cunning there
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charles_1_Mijtens.jpg
[11:51] <mattltm> Ohh. Smart :)
[11:51] <mattltm> May wear that to work :)
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> You can get most of what you need from old curtains.
[11:51] <mattltm> Old curtains? They look like my new ones :P
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[11:53] <m1x10> hi
[11:54] <fsphil> ellu
[11:54] <mattltm> fsphil: 7.142
[11:54] <mattltm> Welsh station.
[11:55] <mattltm> 59 here so should be good to you.
[11:56] <fsphil> understandable but noisy
[11:58] <fsphil> ooh, very strong digital sstv signal on 14.233
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[12:24] <MrCraig> re all
[12:31] <fsphil> wb
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[12:36] <MrCraig> google is fast
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[12:37] <MrCraig> searching for a tutorial I read a few weeks ago, and for the keywords google brings up the blog post I posted this morning.
[12:37] <LazyLeopard> Typical. ;)
[12:37] <NigelMoby> Morning
[12:38] <MrCraig> Morning Nigel
[12:38] <LazyLeopard> Google finds your question, but not the answer... ;)
[12:38] <MrCraig> yeah lol
[12:38] <MrCraig> I'm shocked at how quickly google spidered me
[12:39] <MrCraig> Must have been within an hour
[12:39] <fsphil> morning nigey
[12:39] Action: LazyLeopard likes to keep spiders out of blogs...
[12:39] <NigelMoby> Hey Phil, late night eh...lol
[12:39] <fsphil> oh very
[12:39] <fsphil> I dropped out sometime after 2
[12:40] <NigelMoby> Think I left at 3am
[12:40] <MrCraig> aah You guys left 1/2 hours before I arrived
[12:41] <NigelMoby> Yup, was shattered
[12:41] <NigelMoby> Juxta ?
[12:41] <MrCraig> a productive evening I hope :)
[12:41] <NigelMoby> Very, lots of info to take in though
[12:44] <MrCraig> Found some interesting code for running a software uart in a pic. It uses instruction cycle timing to delay between bits - but unfortunately the loop timer is 8-bit making the lowest baud rate too high. I can nest the loop, but don't know how to calculate the loop-top constant for the desired baud rate.
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> You could add a delay in the loop too
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> but you simply count instructions, and jumps.
[12:45] <MrCraig> well the loop it's self is the delay, but I see what you're saying, perhaps I could put a few NOP instructions inside the loop to make it take a few more cycles (rather than nest it)
[12:45] <SpeedEvil> yep
[12:46] <MrCraig> us = microsecond right?
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> Generally.
[12:47] <MrCraig> yeah, that's gotta be right, running at 4Mhz each instruction takes 2 cycles (4 phases) and so each instruction is 1us. That helps
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> each jump takes 4 IIRC
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[12:47] <SpeedEvil> Or something like that.
[12:48] <MrCraig> hmm 2 clock cycles for a jump I thinks
[12:48] <MrCraig> or rather, 2us according to the comments in this delay loop :)
[12:53] Action: MrCraig finds it irritating when an internet technical tutorial / document qualifies the ASCII acronym.
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[13:26] Action: Dooberry is rather looking forward to the Rugby game this PM
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[14:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[14:14] <mattltm> Hi Lunar
[14:14] <mattltm> Ubuntu 10.10 is nice :0
[14:14] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[14:16] <MrCraig> hi Lunar
[14:17] <Lunar_Lander> hi MrCraig
[14:18] <MrCraig> would anyone here claim to be an algebraic genius? I=3+(4X); O=((I+3)Y)+1; Where O=10000 and X<256 and Y<256 and X and Y are integer.. Go!
[14:18] <MrCraig> <grinz>
[14:18] <fsphil> 42!
[14:18] <MrCraig> lol fsphil
[14:19] <mattltm> lol
[14:19] <MrCraig> trying to find values to put into this baud loop - I can swap out the 4X, ideally for 3X - which offers some flexability, but ich this isn't pretty.
[14:20] <Randomskk> MrCraig: there is a family of solutions, though it is unlikely any will be precise integers
[14:20] <Randomskk> it solves as Y=9999/(2(2X+3))
[14:21] <Randomskk> you could very readily tabulate all Ys for Xs 0 to 256
[14:21] <Randomskk> but I doubt very much that any would be integer.
[14:22] <MrCraig> Well I think I'll do just that, have the machine do it for me with all values possible - I don't mind if the result is not O=10000 so long as it's close I can pad a few extra nop's in
[14:22] <MrCraig> And thank you for taking on my challenge and showing me that I need to resit GCSE mathematics, in my teenage years I'd have resolved that already.
[14:22] <Randomskk> x=165 y=15.0135 is closeish
[14:23] <Randomskk> it's not like I even tried, I just plugged it into wolfram alpha
[14:23] <Randomskk> it would indeed be pretty trivial to rearrange though
[14:24] <MrCraig> does some numbers...
[14:24] <Randomskk> X=177 is even better
[14:24] <Randomskk> (Y=14.004)
[14:25] <MrCraig> That'll do nicely, O=9997 where X=177 and Y=14; so I'll stick three nops on the end and == 10000 :-)
[14:25] <MrCraig> Thanks Randomskk
[14:26] <Randomskk> no problem. three parts in a ten thousand may not even be a big deal.
[14:26] <MrCraig> agreed, but it's nice to get it squared off
[14:26] <Randomskk> indeed
[14:29] <DanielRichman> if you can swap the 4x for a 3x (as I think you said?) you can get a perfect integer solution - unless I'm mistaken - with x=31 y=101
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[14:31] <MrCraig> attempts to verify DanielRichman
[14:31] <DanielRichman> (try /me )
[14:32] <MrCraig> That's just showing off
[14:32] <MrCraig> hehe thanks DanielRichman
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[14:40] <chembrow> afternoon all
[14:40] <mattltm> hi
[14:40] <MrCraig> hi
[14:44] <Lunar_Lander> hi
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[14:46] <fsphil> hi hi
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[14:47] <chembrow> so, anything going on?
[14:49] Action: fsphil is playing with radio
[14:50] Action: MrCraig is trying to get sw_uart to function
[14:50] Action: chembrow is building an antenna
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[14:55] Nick change: SpikeUK_ -> SpikeUK
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[15:00] <fsphil> "Designed specifically for small gardens .... only 14m long" bah
[15:01] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... For some large value of "small", clearly...
[15:02] <fsphil> there's a big field out the back of my house, shame I can't use that
[15:03] <LazyLeopard> What're you trying to put up?
[15:04] <fsphil> trying to get something that works on HF
[15:04] <fsphil> anything really
[15:04] <LazyLeopard> Considered any verticals?
[15:04] <fsphil> got a 5m vertical at the moment, but it's way too noisy
[15:05] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm...
[15:06] <LazyLeopard> How much space do you have?
[15:07] <fsphil> garden is about 5x5 metres
[15:08] <fsphil> a bit bigger if I don't count the sheds
[15:09] <LazyLeopard> Hard to do anything non-vertical in that space for 160/80/40 metres, but you might fit a cobweb for 20 and higher in?
[15:10] <LazyLeopard> http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/cobweb/ or http://www.g3tpw.co.uk/ for details...
[15:11] <fsphil> certainly lives up to its name!
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[15:12] <LazyLeopard> Indeed... I've seen a six-spoked version, too, that looks even more like a spiders web.
[15:18] <LazyLeopard> Bound to be a compromise, but when space is limited... The 20 metres version is about 12 feet corner-to-corner, so would fit into your available space if you could figure how to suspend it high enough...
[15:25] <MrCraig> bit timing must be a fraction out - I get a repeating pattern of characters, but not the pattern I'm sending, just junk
[15:28] <chembrow> Question about antennas. I'm building a ground plane as recommended (http://bit.ly/e0e84U), and I believe the vertical and radials should be 164mm. Presumably that's measured from the centre/intersection point?
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[15:34] <LazyLeopard> Sounds about right for a 70cms quarter wavelength, yes.
[15:41] <chembrow> is a 1/4 wave best, or something else?
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[15:45] <LazyLeopard> I suspect smething else would get more complicated, and heavier, and less robust...
[15:45] <chembrow> Cool, thanks
[15:51] <mattltm> fsphil: Does your 5M vert have ground radials?
[15:52] <fsphil> it didn't come with any, but I've installed a couple of wires
[15:52] <fsphil> maybe not enough though
[15:52] <fsphil> or long enough
[15:52] <mattltm> You want as many as you can lay down.
[15:53] <fsphil> ah, so two wouldn't be enough then :)
[15:53] <mattltm> If your using it as a multiband, lay diferent size radials, at least cut for each band
[15:53] <mattltm> 2! lol.
[15:53] <fsphil> I had three originally :p
[15:53] <mattltm> think more like 30
[15:54] <fsphil> the garden is covered with concrete, I can't really hide them
[15:54] <mattltm> Wow. I know how to sole this though...
[15:54] <mattltm> Move!
[15:54] <fsphil> yep :D
[15:54] <fsphil> lol
[15:54] <fsphil> or,,, don't do HF
[15:54] <mattltm> There is always a way...
[15:55] <mattltm> How about a loop?
[15:55] <fsphil> Tried a loop in the attic, but not out in the garden yet
[15:55] <fsphil> attic loop was deaf
[15:55] <mattltm> And noisy?
[15:56] <fsphil> only noise, I couldn't hear anything with it except a few SW broadcast stations
[15:56] <fsphil> I'd like to try one in the garden at some point
[15:57] <LazyLeopard> Any particular design of vertical?
[15:58] <LazyLeopard> ...and did it at least have a decent ground spike?
[16:00] <fsphil> just a 5m pole really
[16:01] <fsphil> it's sitting on a 2m metal pole, which is in the ground
[16:01] <LazyLeopard> ...and an ATU somewhere, presumably.
[16:01] <fsphil> on the radio side, it's not for outdoors
[16:02] <LazyLeopard> Right.
[16:03] Action: LazyLeopard is contemplating an outdoors ATU...
[16:03] <LazyLeopard> Losses and such on my 30 metres of feeder must be quite horrible at some frequencies...
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[16:04] <LazyLeopard> I have an SWR meeter on the feeder side of my ATU, and it's not pretty. ;)
[16:06] <LazyLeopard> mattltm: Did you end up going to the Cambs rally?
[16:07] <mattltm> Nope. Stayed at home and played radio insted :)
[16:08] <LazyLeopard> Friend who did go said it was a bit low on dealers...
[16:08] <LazyLeopard> ...but good socially.
[16:10] <mattltm> 27th March is the next one i am going to..
[16:10] <LazyLeopard> Where's that?
[16:11] <LazyLeopard> I just realised I've got somewhere else I have to be the day of the Kempton rally...
[16:12] <mattltm> Hack green bunker :)
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[16:14] <LazyLeopard> Sounds like fun, if a bit of a way to go. ;)
[16:18] <mattltm> Got to love the bunker though :)
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[16:21] <Upu> hey mattltm
[16:22] <Upu> about ?
[16:25] <mattltm> Uh hu :)
[16:25] <Upu> hi
[16:25] <Upu> just trying to understand what I'm doing here rather than copying yours
[16:25] <Upu> http://n-lemma.com/calcs/dipole/fdipole.htm
[16:25] <Upu> say my former is 35mm
[16:25] <Upu> my wire is 4mm
[16:25] <Upu> and my length is 329mm
[16:26] <Upu> you say you played about with this to get 200Ohm input impedance
[16:26] <Upu> I stick 31mm in for my S
[16:27] <Upu> and it doesn't seem to change anything like the input impedance just the ratios of S/D2 D2/D1 which I don't understand the relevance of
[16:27] <mattltm> ok..
[16:27] <mattltm> Been a while since i used that tool..
[16:28] <mattltm> Give me a mo to remember..
[16:28] <Upu> kk
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[16:32] <mattltm> http://n-lemma.com/calcs/dipole/
[16:32] <mattltm> So the page that links to the tool gives a breif overview..
[16:43] <mattltm> Still here Upu?
[16:43] <Upu> just on phone sorry
[16:44] <mattltm> Ok. see you in the other room..
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[16:57] <Upu> back no mattltm sorry about that
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[17:01] <Darkside> http://blog.darklomax.org/?p=42
[17:07] <mattltm> Cool.
[17:09] <mattltm> Love the truck!
[17:09] <fsphil> needs a red swishy light at the front
[17:10] <mattltm> lol
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[17:10] <Darkside> we've considered it
[17:10] <mattltm> 20M is open fsphil :)
[17:10] <Darkside> we'd probably get into trouble
[17:10] <mattltm> Darkside: Is that yours?
[17:10] <Darkside> mattltm: nah, another amateur operators
[17:10] <Darkside> i usually navigate in it though
[17:11] <Darkside> well, DF/navigate/operate equipment
[17:11] <mattltm> Very cool. What is the doppler system?
[17:11] <fsphil> tis supremely cool, definitely
[17:11] <Darkside> i forget the brand, the owner of the car designed it
[17:11] <Darkside> it was designed for the South Australia police force afaik
[17:12] <Darkside> fsphil: thats one of the standard trucks we have out for project horus chases
[17:15] <Darkside> anyway, sleep time
[17:15] <Darkside> almost 4am here..
[17:16] <mattltm> night :)
[17:16] <fsphil> yikes
[17:16] <fsphil> nite!
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[17:47] <NigeyS> hey Dan
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[18:19] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:19] <mattltm> Hi :)
[18:20] <jcoxon> mattltm, i saw the inovation centre today :-)
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> Evening.
[18:22] <m1x10> hi
[18:24] <MrCraig> hi
[18:24] <NigeyS> The government has warned of a possible explosion at a second reactor building at the earthquake-damaged Fukushima 1 power station.
[18:24] <NigeyS> meh
[18:25] <MrCraig> Why when there was a tsunami in phuket did the presenters pronounce it foo-ket and why do they now pronounce Fukushima fookushima? political correctness?
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[18:29] <MrCraig> woohoo - software uart is working
[18:30] <fsphil> congrats :)
[18:30] <NigeyS> \o/
[18:30] <fsphil> they can be a right royal pain in the bum
[18:31] <jcoxon> fsphil, seconded
[18:31] <jcoxon> if you can avoid them i advise it
[18:31] <MrCraig> thanks :-) The uncomfortable thing is not knowing why it works now but didn't earlier. o.O I left for a meal, came back and tried another routine which failed, put it back as it was before my meal and it worked. I'm thinking perhaps I didn't program the chip with the latest build or something
[18:31] <jcoxon> not a pretty way of doing it
[18:32] <MrCraig> meh - I needed a baud rate lower than my chip would support
[18:32] <MrCraig> and I need two baud rates, one for the GPS and another for transmission.
[18:35] <Hiena> MrCraig, don't think about it. Annoying enough me, knowing two nuclear disaster was in Japan towns which names ends at the same way, and the pronounce of the "shima" is similar with the hungarian word "sima", which means smooth or flat...
[18:38] <MrCraig> Went on the Doctors without borders website (usually donate through them) they're not accepting donations for Japan yet as the Japanese government has been able to provide medical support as much as is required. Personally I'd have hoped they might take donations anyway and use them to provide food parcels or forward the donation to someone who can
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[18:39] <SpeedEvil> I question if japan actually needs the help.
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> I mean - yes - it's a really big disaster. But Japan is very, very far from being a third world country.
[18:40] <Hiena> Talking about HAR matter, tested a new fuel today. 20% bitumen, 75% ammonium-nitrate, 5% grounded tire makes a nice slow burner.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[18:41] <MrCraig> They seem to be dealing with it so far - but even a developed country has limited infrastructure for dealing with something this big. There are only so many helicopters for example, if more can be got there it supports what they have - though they probably can pay for anything the need
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> Why the ground tire?
[18:41] <Hiena> Guess, i'll notch up the tire component, reducing the sputter.
[18:41] <SpeedEvil> MrCraig: Sure - for limited resources.
[18:43] <Hiena> Sulphur content. It gives extra heat, and increase the burning speed.
[18:45] <Hiena> Much stable than a raw sulfur, which means higher ignition temperature, but the longer shelf life compensate it. Also the bitumen seals the nitrate from the moisture.
[18:46] <Hiena> I'll do some dip test with the next batch.
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> How are you making it? Dessicate the AN, then mix hot?
[18:50] <Hiena> Hot mix? Look, i'm loony and crazy, but not mad. Desiccate and gorund the AN, dissolve the bitumen in white gas until it's a smooth goo, then mix them together and dry at 60 degree Celsius.
[18:52] <Hiena> The drying is around 2 weeks for an 2 cm diameter burning rod.
[18:53] <Hiena> At the half time it has a consistency like the hard putty, so easy to shape, sculpt or whatever.
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[19:15] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:16] mattltm (~mattltm@92.7.207.234) left irc:
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[19:23] <m1x10> I need holidays right now: http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/189705_1605868071415_1377549819_1408609_4311336_n.jpg
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[19:50] Nick change: SAIDias -> W0OTM
[19:50] <W0OTM> Hello World
[19:51] <MrCraig> void main() { printf("hello W0OTM /n"); }
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[19:52] <W0OTM> Whats the news in the HAB world today
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[19:56] <MrCraig> um journalism died - consequently, there's no news.
[19:59] <Dan-K2VOL1> W0OTM SpeedBall is running another simulation flight on track.whitestarballoon.org and spacenear.us , all I know so far
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[20:00] <Dan-K2VOL1> W0OTM you might be interested to note that I dropped our local FSDO an email to let them know we were getting near to launch
[20:00] Action: fsphil is listening for satellites
[20:03] <W0OTM> Cool
[20:03] <W0OTM> I am working on my homebrew vertical
[20:05] <Dan-K2VOL1> anything good fsphil?
[20:05] <fsphil> VO-52 heading overhead now, a few people on it
[20:06] <Dan-K2VOL1> cool
[20:07] <fsphil> the doppler effect certainly makes things interesting
[20:08] <natrium42> hi Dan-K2VOL1
[20:08] <natrium42> what's with the bizarro points near ghana?
[20:08] <NigeyS> dam wormholes
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL1> hi natrium42 how's your weekend
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL1> oh
[20:08] <Dan-K2VOL1> haha 0,0 lat/lon
[20:09] <Dan-K2VOL1> our GPS simulator is a bit agressive in throwing bad data at the flight computer to see how it deals with it
[20:09] <Dan-K2VOL1> the flight computer has elected to represent no lat/lon as 0 lat/lon
[20:09] <natrium42> aah
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[20:10] <Dan-K2VOL1> brad says it's a condition our gps won't produce. I've not looked into it
[20:10] <natrium42> we can always add a check
[20:10] <natrium42> and not add coordinates like this to the map
[20:11] <Dan-K2VOL1> I was curious if there was an interface where controllers could delete points from the map
[20:12] <fsphil> I thought the tracker page could handle 0,0? or is it rob's server the filters those out?
[20:12] <fsphil> I've sent a few 0,0's before
[20:12] <natrium42> i filter those out
[20:12] <natrium42> too many buggy payloads :P
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[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
[20:14] <SpeedEvil> http://confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=0&lon=0 related page is related.
[20:16] <fsphil> ah, those points are not exactly 0,0
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[20:19] <MrCraig> Time to rest my head - goodnight all
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[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> funny, earlier sparkfun had 16 unos
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> now they are out of stock again
[20:21] <natrium42> uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno uno
[20:21] <natrium42> i just like saying uno
[20:21] <natrium42> :D
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[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> lol yea
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[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> I think that two arduinos is the way to go for the balloon
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[20:33] <jcoxon> awwwww
[20:33] <jcoxon> just dislocated my shoulder
[20:33] <jcoxon> back in now
[20:33] <LazyLeopard> Sounds unpleasant...
[20:33] <jcoxon> it is
[20:33] <jcoxon> means its pretty useless for 2 days
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> You should have a doctor check that :)
[20:34] <jcoxon> SpeedEvil, indeed
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> For a good reason?
[20:34] <jcoxon> i actually already have - i live with 2 other doctors
[20:34] <jcoxon> its fine
[20:34] <jcoxon> just uncomfortable
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> I mean - does it pop out easily?
[20:34] <jcoxon> oh yes
[20:34] <jcoxon> fifth time
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> The shoulder is fucking amazing.
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> So intricate.
[20:35] <jcoxon> indeed and so unstable
[20:36] <jcoxon> thats the payoff
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Yup.
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[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Clocks go forward in 10 days. Australian suicide data from 1971 to 2001 were assessed to determine the impact on the number of suicides of a 1-h time shift due to daylight saving. The results confirm that male suicide rates rise in the weeks following the commencement of daylight saving, compared to the weeks following the return to eastern standard time and for the rest of the year.
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> did anyone make a chemical sampler for a balloon yet?
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: - sort of.
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> for the dust
[20:56] <Lunar_Lander> and for air as such?
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[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> for the dust
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> and for air as such?
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[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> hi Zuph1
[21:07] <Zuph1> Hi Lunar_Lander
[21:07] Nick change: Zuph1 -> Zuph
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[21:14] <jcoxon> this might be a really silly question, i've used transistors before when you connect the emitter to ground
[21:14] <jcoxon> how to i go about using one if neither emitter or collector is ground
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[21:33] <LazyLeopard> jcoxon: As in "common base" ?
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[21:38] <jcoxon> actually scrap that question
[21:38] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[21:38] <jcoxon> how do rubber buttons work
[21:39] <jcoxon> where on the pcb there is a shape seperated by a very small gap
[21:39] <LazyLeopard> Unreliably?
[21:40] <jcoxon> i assume the rubber button squishes everything so the 2 conductive traces touch
[21:40] <LazyLeopard> Never quite figured out whether it's something capacitive or something resistive.
[21:40] <Dan-K2VOL1> lazyleopard
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[21:41] <Dan-K2VOL1> It's resistive
[21:41] Action: LazyLeopard tried to fix a calculator with buttons like that once...
[21:42] <Dan-K2VOL1> I've designed them into products before
[21:42] <Dan-K2VOL1> they produce a resistance that's very low
[21:42] <Dan-K2VOL1> low enough to just use normal microcontroller high/low logic to detect it as if it were a switch
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:42] <jcoxon> so to hack them up...
[21:43] <Dan-K2VOL1> however, you need to use a pullup/down resistor, and DEFINITELY need a debounce code
[21:43] <Dan-K2VOL1> they are horrible for bounce
[21:45] <LazyLeopard> riiiight...
[21:49] <jcoxon> what sort of resistance?
[21:49] <jcoxon> 10ohms?
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[21:53] <NigeyS> hey juxta
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> what is a good container for an air sampler?
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> custom solutions, i.e. a coke bottle, won't work if we want to give the air to a lab
[21:53] <juxta> hi NigeyS
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi juxta
[21:53] <juxta> morning Lunar_Lander :)
[21:54] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> do you have an idea to my question juxta ?
[21:58] <juxta> hmm - I dont know for that one :(
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> anybody else?
[22:03] <jcoxon> with AMMA we sampled using gas syringes
[22:04] <jcoxon> but we did in flight chromatography
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[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> a glass container could shatter during landing
[22:06] <jcoxon> indeed
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> Also, the seal needs to be really, really good, as it's a vacuum
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[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> and a valve that seats perfectly
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[22:21] <jcoxon> hoooray
[22:21] <jcoxon> i've now got my spot autosending messages
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> You mean taking a foreign GPS, and putting it through your processor?
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[22:22] <jcoxon> the hacked button wasn't working due to poor soldering
[22:22] <Lunar_Lander> spot is expensive isn't it?
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> Quite
[22:22] <jcoxon> so the arduino creates a fake nmea stream and passes it to the spot when the spot wants it
[22:22] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, yes not cheap
[22:23] <jcoxon> but a year subscription so once paid you can try and use it as much as you want
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> and it saves for a radio downlink, right?
[22:23] <jcoxon> i say try as you can't push that many messages through
[22:24] <jcoxon> well i recommend a radio downlink as well
[22:24] <jcoxon> you are only going to get a message through every 20mins or so
[22:24] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:25] <jcoxon> also in their unhacked state the gps is rubbish
[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> how comes?
[22:25] <jcoxon> its not a very good gps
[22:25] <jcoxon> not sensitive
[22:25] <jcoxon> and also doesn't work above 18km altitude
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[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> those sunrise soar people used it
[22:29] <jcoxon> now mine has a fancy ublox 5 gps module
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[22:29] <jcoxon> :-p
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> is that one good?
[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> I am still searching
[22:30] <jcoxon> yup
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[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> FSA03 seems to be out of stock everywhere
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> and lassen needs SMD soldering I was told
[22:31] <jcoxon> go for a GPSbee
[22:31] <jcoxon> thats my recommendation
[22:31] <jcoxon> avoid the fsa03
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> like this? http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/gps-bee-50-channel-ublox-5-p-560.html
[22:33] <jcoxon> yup
[22:34] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jcoxon77/5523749907/
[22:34] <jcoxon> my current setup
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> what is the blue board?
[22:35] <jcoxon> arduino pro
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:35] <jcoxon> the green board is my atlas flight computer
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:35] <jcoxon> with an atmeta328 running arduino bootloader
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> the gpsbee does not plug to the uno,right?
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> you need a shield for that I saw
[22:36] <jcoxon> yeah it has a footprint of a xbee
[22:36] <jcoxon> so any xbee shield 'should' work
[22:36] <jcoxon> i've got a nice xbee breakout board i use
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8276
[22:37] <jcoxon> yup
[22:37] <Lunar_Lander> ok
[22:40] <jcoxon> night all
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> so
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> that breakout board has two rows of connectors to the left and to the right
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> and the GPSbee "rides" those connectors
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> and from the board extend headers that are connected to the arduiono
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> arduino
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[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> is that right?
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[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> any ideas?
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[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> it seems to be correct when I compare the datasheet of the gpsbee and the labelling on the board
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[00:00] --- Mon Mar 14 2011