highaltitude.log.20110308

[00:02] <MrCraig> ok - my bank switching is aaaalll wrong. Time to sleep and resume on the morrow. Night all.
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[00:08] <Lunar_Lander> hi juxta
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[00:13] <juxta> hi Lunar_Lander
[00:14] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> and what is the auto launcher doing when it is beeping?
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[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> is the beeping announcing the launch sequence?
[00:22] <juxta> hey Lunar_Lander, sorry was distracted for a bit there
[00:22] <Lunar_Lander> np :)
[00:22] <juxta> yes - the beep is just a warning I believe
[00:22] <juxta> it started beeping probably 5-10 mins before it launched
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> is it operating on H2?
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[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> and are there people living nearby?
[00:23] <jcoxon> juxta, you got an autolauncher?
[00:23] <juxta> that one was helium
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> because 10 mins of beeping should be annoying
[00:23] <Lunar_Lander> http://vimeo.com/19862362 this one jcoxon
[00:23] <juxta> jcoxon, yeah, had a spare million lying around so I bought one :)
[00:23] <jcoxon> oh cool
[00:23] <jcoxon> make sense now :-)
[00:23] <juxta> hehe
[00:24] <juxta> that's at an airport Lunar_Lander
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:24] <juxta> so the beeping isnt going to bother anybody
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> that's good :)
[00:24] <Lunar_Lander> did they show you what is inside the container?
[00:25] <juxta> we had a look - there's a carousel of balloons and radiosondes
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> so it can work like a week unattended
[00:25] <juxta> the balloon is inflated shortly before launch, then at the right time the doors open and it flys out
[00:25] <juxta> from memory it holds 24 balloons
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> 24
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> that is 8 days for 3 launchings
[00:26] <juxta> that particular station is configured for 1 launch/day
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[00:26] <juxta> so almost a month
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> and there is a radome?
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> on the roof
[00:26] <Lunar_Lander> or is that another antenna
[00:26] <juxta> that's the rx antenna system
[00:27] <juxta> we actually got one given to us
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[00:27] <juxta> it's quite an interesting design
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> Vaisala is cool
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> you surely didn't know this:
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> Prof Väisälä did his Ph.D. in maths
[00:27] <Lunar_Lander> and he only wrote a thesis to become doctor
[00:28] <Lunar_Lander> because of that he got his wish
[00:28] <Lunar_Lander> and his is the only math doctoral thesis ever to be written in Finnish
[00:28] <juxta> haha, wow
[00:28] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> I thought of getting the thesis via my uni's library
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> but I didn't do it yet because I don't really have a use for it
[00:29] <juxta> heh - can you speak Finnish?
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> no
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> even if I could
[00:29] <Lunar_Lander> he wrote about elliptic integrals
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> a thing that we were told up to now that is "very difficult and thus not substance of our current discussion"
[00:30] <juxta> sounds like exciting reading ;p
[00:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> oh yeah
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> I just checked the wiki page
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> math talk
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> disgusting
[00:31] <Lunar_Lander> I mean pure math with that
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[00:32] <Lunar_Lander> not the math you need for Physics
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[01:34] <iNatrium> Hi
[01:38] <Lunar_Lander> hi iNatrium
[01:38] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
[01:39] <iNatrium> Hey, how are you?
[01:39] <Lunar_Lander> I'm fine thanks
[01:39] <iNatrium> Good, at a conference ATM
[01:39] <Lunar_Lander> if you are natrium42 I saw your techtalk
[01:40] <iNatrium> Google campus in mountain view
[01:40] <Lunar_Lander> or better, I already saw the first 17 minutes
[01:40] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[01:40] <iNatrium> Ah, cool
[01:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[01:40] <Lunar_Lander> damn microphone error
[01:40] <Lunar_Lander> was the audio guy sleeping?
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[01:42] <khotchkiss> How effective is http://www.partycity.com/product/ultra+hi-float+pint+with+pump.do?sortby=ourPicks&pp=60&size=all and the like?
[01:43] <khotchkiss> Not for party reasons lol
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[02:04] <Lunar_Lander> wb iNatrium
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[02:13] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[04:45] <natrium42> nice, Up! house built in RL --> http://gizmodo.com/#!howhardcanitbe
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[06:29] <khotchkiss> house was sick
[06:29] <khotchkiss> can't believe they had people in it.
[06:30] <khotchkiss> faa be hatin' if they knew
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[07:13] <earthshine> o/
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[07:26] <griffonbot> @LVL1WhiteStar: MC Sim 5 ends, good procedural improvements found, still ferreting out bugs in telemetry processing systems. 20 min latency on sat #arhab [http://twitter.com/LVL1WhiteStar/status/45022524077125632]
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[07:59] <jcoxon> morning
[08:00] <natrium42> hy jcoxon
[08:00] <natrium42> sup?
[08:00] <jcoxon> day off :-D
[08:01] <natrium42> \o/
[08:02] <jcoxon> going to work on SPoT
[08:02] <jcoxon> ummm silly question but is the tracking setup for the device
[08:02] <jcoxon> or do you need me to pay it?
[08:02] <natrium42> it's set up
[08:02] <natrium42> not working?
[08:02] <jcoxon> okay cool
[08:03] <jcoxon> well its hard to tell whats my mistake and what isn't working :-p
[08:03] <natrium42> lol
[08:03] <jcoxon> i've got some 'tests' which will confirm either
[08:03] <natrium42> you can always send OK messages
[08:03] <natrium42> no need to even get tracking, actually...
[08:04] <jcoxon> yes
[08:04] <jcoxon> very true
[08:04] <jcoxon> the issue is really that i have poor sky view
[08:04] <jcoxon> so have to take it outside
[08:04] <jcoxon> which is a pain
[08:06] <natrium42> yeah, it does need a view of the sky....
[08:07] <jcoxon> weather is good today :)
[08:07] <natrium42> nice for a change? :)
[08:08] <jcoxon> actually yesterday was okay
[08:08] <jcoxon> by nice i mean thats its not raining :-)
[08:11] <eroomde> morning jcoxon
[08:12] <natrium42> hi ed van der moor
[08:13] <jcoxon> hey eroomde long time
[08:14] <eroomde> indeed!
[08:14] <eroomde> it's been a busy few weeks
[08:14] <eroomde> how are things?
[08:14] <jcoxon> yeah not to bad
[08:14] <jcoxon> went on holiday 2 weeks ago
[08:14] <jcoxon> then have just worked the weekend
[08:14] <jcoxon> day off today
[08:14] <eroomde> nice
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[08:15] <jcoxon> eroomde, whitestar guys seem to nearly there
[08:15] <eroomde> uhuh
[08:15] <jcoxon> just waiting for the next good JS
[08:15] <eroomde> impressive stuff
[08:17] <jcoxon> indeed
[08:18] <jcoxon> eroomde, working on any interestig non-work projects then?
[08:19] <eroomde> work is a bit dominating atm
[08:19] <eroomde> davos field trip next week
[08:19] <eroomde> for two weeks
[08:19] <jcoxon> alps?
[08:19] <eroomde> yep
[08:19] <jcoxon> lucky you
[08:20] <eroomde> not sure it will be
[08:20] <jcoxon> oh
[08:20] <eroomde> quite hard work
[08:20] <eroomde> lots to get done
[08:21] <eroomde> but such is life
[08:21] <jcoxon> yeah
[08:22] <eroomde> any non work fun with you?
[08:24] <jcoxon> been working on hacking up SPoT
[08:25] <jcoxon> and am stage manager for the hospital revue
[08:27] <eroomde> lol
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[08:27] <eroomde> cool
[08:28] <jcoxon> hoping to crack the SPoT part
[08:28] <jcoxon> today
[08:28] <eroomde> well, good luck!
[08:28] <eroomde> i am going to head into work
[08:28] <jcoxon> thanks
[08:28] <jcoxon> cool cool
[08:29] <eroomde> see you later
[08:39] <jcoxon> cya
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[08:43] <Dooberry> morn
[08:43] <jcoxon> hi Dooberry
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[08:44] <Dooberry> another cracking day outside...
[08:44] <Dooberry> shame i'm stuck inside trying to fix Joomla :/
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[08:45] <mattltm-alternat> Morning :)
[08:46] <Dooberry> morning
[08:47] Nick change: mattltm-alternat -> mattltm-alt
[08:47] <mattltm-alt> Hi Dooberry
[08:54] <fsphil> lovely outside here too Dooberry ...
[08:54] Action: fsphil says from his window-less office :)
[08:54] <mattltm-alt> hey fsphill :)
[08:55] <fsphil> g'morning matt
[08:55] <mattltm-alt> I just noticed that the maker faire was on this weekend
[08:56] <mattltm-alt> And that the 2e0 starts on the 19th so I'm tempted to go to the faire
[08:56] <fsphil> are they near eachother?
[08:56] <mattltm-alt> Nope :)
[08:57] <mattltm-alt> The maker faire is in Newcastle
[08:57] <fsphil> ah, just a wee journey then
[08:57] <mattltm-alt> 5 1/2 hours drive :(
[08:57] <mattltm-alt> or 10 hours on the train!
[08:58] <jcoxon> go by balloon!
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[09:00] <fsphil> I could probably land on there :p
[09:00] <fsphil> one
[09:06] <fsphil> that faire looks like fun
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[09:30] <Dooberry> Hey fsphil (belatedly)
[09:30] <Dooberry> Think I'm going to head out today and pick up a foam container
[09:31] <Dooberry> crazy, i know!
[09:32] <jcoxon> right, normal SPoT + hacked SPoT outside
[09:33] <jcoxon> hopefully we'll get some results
[09:33] <fsphil> fingers crossed
[09:33] <natrium42> :)
[09:33] <jcoxon> i'm getting all the right responses from it
[09:34] <jcoxon> being one way makes it a bit harder
[09:36] <jcoxon> oh
[09:36] <jcoxon> wait a second
[09:36] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
[09:36] <natrium42> yo
[09:36] <jcoxon> in the spot message format
[09:37] <jcoxon> oh wait
[09:37] <jcoxon> never mind
[09:37] <natrium42> don't send SOS messages! :P
[09:37] <jcoxon> i don't know how!
[09:37] <natrium42> :D
[09:37] <natrium42> i think they'd wake up my parents
[09:37] <jcoxon> i sort of wish you could turn that off completely
[09:37] <natrium42> as they are emergency contact
[09:38] <jcoxon> as in online just tick a box to say i don't want this service
[09:38] <fsphil> eep
[09:38] <natrium42> srslty
[09:42] <fsphil> predictions for the weekend have changed quite a bit - a floating flight would land in Norway
[09:43] <fsphil> a normal flight would land in scotland
[09:43] <Dooberry> not looking promising then?
[09:43] <fsphil> would be almost impossible to track that far over the north sea
[09:44] <Dooberry> ooh, did you work out what the problem with the GPS module was in the end?
[09:44] <fsphil> it's working, but I don't entirely trust it :)
[09:44] <Dooberry> hah!
[09:46] <fsphil> I'd fly it if I knew recovery was unlikely anyway
[09:47] <Dooberry> ah, i'm planning on sending up a HDPro Hero so recovery is going to be #1 on my importance list
[09:47] <Dooberry> *GoPro HD
[09:47] <fsphil> oh definitely!
[09:47] <griffonbot> Received email: Kjell Are Refsvik <kjell.are.refsvik@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Planning a <100km flight. Please help save the Norwegian
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[09:48] <mattltm-alt> Yes! I managed to bag icmp.org.uk for our new hackerspace, ICM Prototype. :)
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[09:50] <Dooberry> Nice Matt - presume it's running off WP?
[09:51] <fsphil> excellent
[09:51] <Dooberry> oh, Drupal, nm
[09:52] <Dooberry> In other news (and i'm slightly embarassed to ask this question) but any recommendations for where I can pick up insulated foam containers in London?
[09:55] <fsphil> ebay? :)
[09:56] <Dooberry> haha, that's my backup plan
[09:56] <Dooberry> i'm old school when it comes to shopping and fancy having a rl browse
[09:56] <GW8RAK> Dooberry - a fishmongers, although they may be a little big.
[09:58] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
[09:59] <Dooberry> aye, yesterday W0OTM was talking about how he got his from a vets
[10:00] <Dooberry> but the idea of walking in off the street to a vets / fishmongers asking for foam containers doesn't really appeal
[10:00] <jcoxon> Dooberry, they aren't easy to find
[10:00] <fsphil> no worse than walking into a card shop and asking for a full tank of helium, for one balloon :)
[10:00] <Dooberry> touche x2
[10:01] <Dooberry> Phil - is that how you get your helium then?
[10:02] <fsphil> nah, they just looked at me funny and said no
[10:02] <Dooberry> heh
[10:02] <fsphil> I found a wedding decoration place that where happy to though
[10:05] <Laurenceb> air products looked cheapish last time i checked
[10:05] <Laurenceb> but not many air products depots
[10:06] <jcoxon> hmmm my normal spot has tx'd
[10:06] <jcoxon> my hacked on hasn't
[10:06] <Laurenceb> boc were a ripoff
[10:06] <jcoxon> :-(
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[10:07] <mattltm-alt> Dooberry: Yes, a fresh install of Drupal 7 :)
[10:07] <mattltm-alt> Needs a bit of content me thinks :)
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[10:10] <fsphil> air products wouldn't give me a quote until I create an account
[10:10] <Dooberry> I'd give my right hand to be working with Drupal right now, as opposed to the shambles that is Joomla
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[10:13] <Dooberry> phil / jcoxon - i gave up on the idea of finding a shop in London and decided to buy a few of these instead http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Polystyrene-Shipping-Box-DGP-EPS14-similar-/280572575392
[10:14] <mattltm-alt> Joomla sucks.
[10:14] <mattltm-alt> lol
[10:14] <Dooberry> It's okay for small, uncomplicated websites
[10:14] <Dooberry> but it just can't handle complex taxonomies
[10:14] <Dooberry> and it's SEF'ness is terrible
[10:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Ed Moore <eam52@cam.ac.uk> "Re: [UKHAS] Planning a <100km flight. Please help save the Norwegian
[10:30] <griffonbot> Received email: James Coxon <jacoxon@gmail.com> "Re: [UKHAS] Planning a <100km flight. Please help save the Norwegian
[10:31] <jcoxon> Dooberry, good choice
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[10:32] <fsphil> I never did get the hourly predictor working in centos
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[10:49] <jcoxon> hmmm when you print HEX on arduino is it normal for it to shorten some things
[10:49] <jcoxon> so the message is AA 0E 00 00 3D DD 88 C6 C5 5B 01 00 EA 9B
[10:49] <jcoxon> and when i print it i get:
[10:49] <jcoxon> AAE003DDD88C6C55B10EA9B
[10:49] <jcoxon> i appreciate its missing the gaps but also some of the 0's are missing
[10:49] <fsphil> how are you printing it?
[10:50] <jcoxon> Serial.print(MSG[i], HEX);
[10:50] <jcoxon> and using a for clause to run through it
[10:50] <jcoxon> the device is giving me the correct reply
[10:51] <jcoxon> just can't work out why i'm not getting anything through to the system
[10:52] <fsphil> don't think the arduino print does any kind of padding
[10:52] <fsphil> so 0x0A is just A
[10:52] <jcoxon> yeah thats what i suspected
[10:52] <fsphil> if(value < 0x10) serial.print("0");
[10:53] <fsphil> just before you print
[10:53] <fsphil> a bit crude but simpler than dragging out snprintf :)
[10:58] <jcoxon> might have to get natrium42 to check my code
[10:59] <jcoxon> hmmm maybe my regulator isn't providing enough current
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[12:16] <jcoxon> right changed voltage regulator
[12:16] <jcoxon> lets see if that helps
[12:23] <fsphil> there's only one version of the spot?
[12:24] <jcoxon> 2
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[13:01] <griffonbot> Received email: Kjell Are Refsvik <kjell.are.refsvik@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Re: Planning a <100km flight. Please help save the Norwegian
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> anyone want anything from sparkfun? im placing an order
[13:12] <Laurenceb_> guess ill use my free day money
[13:15] <griffonbot> Received email: Kjell Are Refsvik <kjell.are.refsvik@gmail.com> "[UKHAS] Re: Planning a <100km flight. Please help save the Norwegian
[13:23] <Laurenceb_> the sparkfun replacement value thing is confusing me
[13:25] <Laurenceb_> so you pay less customs but get less insurance... ?
[13:29] <eroomde> yes
[13:29] <eroomde> you don't get hit with custom but fedex won't help you out on the slim chance it goes missing
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> hmm ill opt for that
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> and fedex international economy
[13:34] Action: Laurenceb_ is finally getting all the autopilot parts together
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> going to populate one v1 board before getting v2 fabbed
[13:34] <Laurenceb_> so i can check for bugs
[13:35] <Laurenceb_> and work on the firmware
[13:36] <Laurenceb_> eek $240
[13:37] <Laurenceb_> £148... i guess not too bad - all the mems kit for 2 boards and a 9DOF sensor stick
[13:38] <Laurenceb_> should be fun XD
[13:46] <jcoxon> grr this is frustrating
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[14:00] <NigelMoby> Afternoon
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[14:16] <samsliver> ha ha just call me sam silver
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[14:19] <fsphil> Can't I call you Dave?
[14:19] <fsphil> hiya nigey
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[14:20] <samsliver> yes you may or ZU5SAM
[14:21] <NigeyS> hey dan
[14:21] <fsphil> wait, your really called David?
[14:22] <samsliver> david would make my mom very happy - she hates Dave
[14:22] <fsphil> haha, I just guessed
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[14:23] <Dooberry> The time has finally come.
[14:23] <Dooberry> I am bored of all my Spotify playlists
[14:25] <NigeyS> phillyyyyyyyyyy
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[14:37] <samsliver> has anyone opened up a Detol peristalic hand soap dispenser yet? Was wondering what the pump is like.
[14:37] <samsliver> http://www.boots.com/en/Dettol-No-Touch-hand-soap-system-green-tea_1107535/?cm_mmc=Shopping%20Engines-_-Shopzilla-_---_-Dettol%20NoTouch%20hand%20soap%20system%20green%20tea
[14:46] <samsliver> I hope to get my hands on one this week-end and pop it open and test the pump.
[14:47] <eroomde> for ballast dumping?
[14:47] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[14:47] <Laurenceb_> crazy cheap
[14:48] <samsliver> yip
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> some cheap (non silicone) hose can crack at low temp
[14:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> I'm not sure peristaltic pumps are the best idea for ballast dumping, as the hose loses elasticity at low temp, even if it remains non-cracked
[14:49] <Dan-K2VOL1> which means it will pump less per revolution than on the ground
[14:49] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[14:49] <jcoxon> even silicone you reckon?
[14:49] <Laurenceb_> sensortechnics sell some nice solenoid valves
[14:50] <Laurenceb_> but its hard to get enough flow
[14:50] <samsliver> http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?126700-Hacking-a-Hand-Soap-Dispenser-I-would-like-feed-back-Please
[14:51] <jcoxon> to tell the truth - no one can really beat the valve they are using on whitestar
[14:51] <jcoxon> cheap + good
[14:51] <samsliver> what valve is that james?
[14:51] <jcoxon> http://www.pneuaire.com/lowwasu34wav.html
[14:52] <imrcly> the one full of win
[14:52] <jcoxon> iirc
[14:52] <jcoxon> i linked it a long time ago
[14:52] <jcoxon> so it might be out of date
[14:53] <jcoxon> the peristaltic pumps i've used on ballasthalo certainly do work
[14:53] <Laurenceb_> i guess it not massively more complex than a standard soap dispenser
[14:53] <imrcly> it still freezes up though, a parastaltic would also freeze up because it relies on the tube being flexable and creating multiple moving seals
[14:53] <jcoxon> but my rotation sensor failed - so can't claim accurarcy
[14:54] <samsliver> a latex tube?
[14:58] <Laurenceb_> no not that sort of tube
[14:58] <Laurenceb_> :P
[14:58] <Laurenceb_> try aquarium suppliers
[14:59] <samsliver> ha ha
[14:59] <samsliver> my mind was not there!!
[14:59] <jcoxon> http://www.williamson-shop.co.uk/100-series-pump-tubing-268-c.asp
[15:00] <samsliver> i was thinking that the latex balloon stays soft at low temp
[15:00] <W0OTM> Hello World
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> nice find jcoxon
[15:01] <samsliver> congrats W0OTM
[15:01] <W0OTM> samsliver: thanks
[15:01] <jcoxon> Laurenceb_, oh thats what i've always been using
[15:01] <jcoxon> and i get my pumps from them
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> ah
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> pity they dont seell valves
[15:07] <samsliver> what does "60 Shore Hardness" mean .. what is it a measure of?
[15:07] <samsliver> http://www.williamson-shop.co.uk/30mm-norprenesantoprene-tubing-664-p.asp
[15:08] <samsliver> ahh wiki to the rescue
[15:08] <jcoxon> :-)
[15:08] <samsliver> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shore_durometer
[15:16] <jcoxon> samsliver, so you working on a ballast dumps system for a balloon?
[15:17] <samsliver> yes would love to pop over to Cambridge via the Indian Ocean
[15:17] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:17] <jcoxon> where are you based?
[15:18] <samsliver> South Africa
[15:18] <jcoxon> oh cool
[15:19] <samsliver> like the idea of a liquid as balast
[15:19] <jcoxon> yeah, i've done some work on ballast dumping
[15:19] <jcoxon> i'm still in favour of the peristaltic pump
[15:20] <samsliver> i have seen some of it not sure I have seen all your stuff
[15:20] <imrcly> with that tubing that is rated to -70 it would be reasonable
[15:20] <samsliver> which tubing is rated to -70
[15:20] <jcoxon> samsliver, just my ballasthalo stuff http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php#atlantic_halo
[15:20] <imrcly> norprene
[15:21] <imrcly> it is -75F
[15:21] <samsliver> james - I have pretty much stalked that site
[15:21] <samsliver> lol
[15:21] <jcoxon> hehe
[15:21] <jcoxon> then thats all my info
[15:22] <samsliver> imrcly - thanx for the info
[15:22] <jcoxon> i'm still working on my new flight computer but will launch some more ballast flights this summer
[15:22] <jcoxon> once i get this damn hacked satellite transmitter to work!
[15:22] <jcoxon> where is natrium42 when you need him!
[15:23] <imrcly> i just googled, jcoxon linked the tubing
[15:23] <samsliver> I did not see that it was rated to -70 I am now a man with a plan
[15:25] <jcoxon> samsliver, well keep us updated
[15:25] <imrcly> santoprene also is rated to -60c but that does not mean it is flexable to that temp just means it won't freeze solid
[15:25] <jcoxon> :-)
[15:25] <jcoxon> imrcly, how are you guys measuring volume of ballast dropped?
[15:26] <imrcly> time, with known rate of flow
[15:26] <samsliver> I am now thinking more along the line of load sensor
[15:26] <jcoxon> i see
[15:26] <imrcly> we have no way of knowing if it is actually ballasting though
[15:27] <jcoxon> imrcly, response :-)
[15:27] <samsliver> i like load sensor as i am not sure of pumps performance per ev
[15:27] <samsliver> rev
[15:27] <imrcly> well besides that,
[15:27] <jcoxon> samsliver, well the key for a peristaltic pump is hte performace per rev
[15:27] <jcoxon> but if the tubing stiffens then yes that'll be an issue
[15:28] <samsliver> yip
[15:28] <jcoxon> i thought about 50ml syringes driven by screws
[15:29] <samsliver> 500ml better :P
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[15:29] <jcoxon> hehe that are cheap!
[15:33] <samsliver> I am busy with a spiral pump - think winding up a garden hose onto a drum.
[15:34] <samsliver> anyone following my crude discription?
[15:34] <jcoxon> i sort of get what you mean
[15:35] <samsliver> the spiral only needs be about 500 degrees of arc
[15:35] <samsliver> 1.5 turns
[15:35] <samsliver> it also has to reach above the liquid level
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[15:45] <samsliver> this principle -
[15:45] <samsliver> http://www.google.co.za/imgres?imgurl=http://lurkertech.com/water/pump/morgan/tripod/image019.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lurkertech.com/water/pump/morgan/tripod/&usg=__Pp7H6d_KcUr73p3e45OfNcCD-3Q=&h=397&w=528&sz=31&hl=en&start=354&zoom=1&tbnid=kTbQayF4NglXLM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=168&ei=wk52Te2hDYHP4Aaf--STCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dturning%2Bplastic%2Btube%2Bpump%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26rlz%3D1R2ADBF_enZA352%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D57
[15:46] <W0OTM> hmm...just had an interesting hour long conversation with the FAA
[15:46] <W0OTM> is it bad when a governing body says "I don't know"...
[15:47] <samsliver> did you help them out W0OTM?
[15:47] <W0OTM> I was the one asking questions
[15:47] <samsliver> yes I know
[15:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> W0OTM, who were you talking to
[15:48] <samsliver> but you seem better versed in the regs then them
[15:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> a local FSDO?
[15:48] <Dan-K2VOL1> W0OTM the day-to-day lackeys aren't steeped in the balloon rules and regs
[15:48] <W0OTM> Regional guy in KC
[15:48] <W0OTM> The the head of the UAV department
[15:50] <W0OTM> I asked him to define "What" a UAV was...he said he didn't know and to ask the AMA
[15:50] <W0OTM> I said, the AMA isn't a governing body
[15:50] <W0OTM> He said, "ill have to call you back..."
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't the AMA only govern balloons stuck in orifices?
[15:51] <W0OTM> AMA is an insurance company for model airplanes
[15:51] <W0OTM> http://www.modelaircraft.org/
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> ah
[15:52] <Dan-K2VOL1> W0OTM, I wouldn't recommend pestering the FAA to do your research for you, we need to keep on the GOOD side of them
[15:52] <W0OTM> pester?
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> yes, you can find the definition of a UAV yourself, or with guidance from other balloonists and UAVists
[15:53] <imrcly> i would assume a uav is a vehicle in the air with no people on it
[15:53] <Dan-K2VOL1> it's simply my recommendation that we not bother the FAA people when we don't need to - the lower profile we maintain
[15:53] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL1: thanks for your opinion
[15:54] <Dan-K2VOL1> the longer it will be before that the FAA is going to get irritated with us and regulate the sport out of existence
[15:57] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL1: I shake my head at your logic...
[15:58] <W0OTM> Dan-K2VOL1: At this point, lets drop it, im not interested in having this discussion in an open forum
[15:59] Action: W0OTM heading back to the bench
[15:59] <samsliver> jcoxon did you have a look see at my massive link?
[16:00] <samsliver> abot the water wheel?
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[16:33] <Dave-M0MYA> afternoon
[16:34] <samsliver> hello dave
[16:36] <Dave-M0MYA> can anyone please tell me how stringent the formatting for the <LONGITUDE DD.DDDDDD> field in the UKAS protocol has to be. What I specifically want to know is, if I have latitude <10 degress and my TXed string only shows a single digit in the "whole degrees" position, is this OK. ord do I need to append the extra zero?
[16:37] <Dave-M0MYA> i.e will dlfldigi know what is going on if it saw "1.265746" as a value for longitude?
[16:38] <jcoxon> thats fine
[16:38] <Dave-M0MYA> yaaaaaaay! thank you jcoxon!
[16:38] <jcoxon> it defintiely doesn't need padding
[16:38] <Dave-M0MYA> brilliant!
[16:39] <jcoxon> nearly all our flights are <10 longitude
[16:39] <Dave-M0MYA> I figured this would be the case
[16:39] <jcoxon> as long as its decimal
[16:39] <jcoxon> it can also be DDMM.MMM
[16:39] <jcoxon> as in straight from NMEA
[16:40] Action: Dave-M0MYA has gone for the decimal approach - its what TinyGPS spits out
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[16:40] <jcoxon> yes
[16:40] <jcoxon> its a lot easier to work with
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[16:41] <Dave-M0MYA> I have padded my HOURS, MINS, SECONDS and ALT fields. was this necessary?
[16:41] <jcoxon> in theory you can tx $GPGGA :-)
[16:41] <jcoxon> it'll actually work
[16:41] <Dave-M0MYA> ah, cool
[16:41] <jcoxon> i recommend padding hours,mins,secs
[16:41] <jcoxon> but you don't need to pad ALT
[16:41] <W0OTM> who is the contact for the spacenear.us tracker?
[16:42] <Dave-M0MYA> okeydoke
[16:42] <jcoxon> natrium42 hosts it and does the frontend code
[16:42] <jcoxon> rjharrison does the listener server
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[16:42] <jcoxon> and i work on dl-fldigi
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[16:42] <W0OTM> ok, there was a link to the source code, maybe on gethub?
[16:43] <W0OTM> the frontend code
[16:43] <jcoxon> on the ukhas wiki is an old version
[16:43] <jcoxon> they haven't packaged up the current state
[16:43] <jcoxon> you'd have to ask directly for it
[16:43] <W0OTM> ok
[16:44] <jcoxon> spacenear.us is pretty much open for anyone to use
[16:44] <jcoxon> e.g. the whitestar guys are going to use it
[16:44] <jcoxon> but are cloning the database to their public servers to reduce traffic
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[16:45] <W0OTM> I developed some new frontend changes based on the old code on ukhas
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[16:45] <jcoxon> i see
[16:45] <W0OTM> I wanted to merge them with the latest code
[16:45] <jcoxon> have a chat with natrium42
[16:45] <W0OTM> ok
[16:47] <Dooberry> Oooh, liking spacenear.us' logo
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[16:50] <jcoxon> W0OTM, what sort of changes? any exciting features?
[16:51] <W0OTM> "exciting" is all int he eye of the beholder
[16:55] <jcoxon> fair enough
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[17:09] <Spasmish> is a 'Thorcom RLC292 FFSK or GMSK radio modem' good for what y'all do>?
[17:09] <Spasmish> from here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THORCOM-RLC292-FFSK-GMSK-RADIO-MODEM-/260744875350?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item3cb59b0d56
[17:15] <samsliver> chow
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[17:18] <SpeedEvil> hard to tell.
[17:18] <Dooberry> no idea - never been too interested in that side of things due to the 10kbps data rate limit on the equipment
[17:18] <Spasmish> i'm a right radio noob
[17:19] <Spasmish> as in legal limit?
[17:20] <Dooberry> Not sure - i'm a total radio noob too, but I was under the impression that the Radiometrix transmitters top out at 10kbps
[17:20] <Dooberry> someone may correct me though...
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> The limit is more inherent in the SNR of the channel.
[17:21] <Dooberry> aye, but presuming everything's hunky dorey you're looking at 10kbps max?
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> At fairly short ranges.
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> All else being equal, the noise per unit frequency is constantish.
[17:22] Action: LazyLeopard would file 10kbps as "fairly optimistic" in a HAB situation. Then again, pigs might fly... ;)
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> If you have a 200hz window that noise can get in, and all your 10mW output is in that window, then you have lots less noise than if you have a 50khz wide window that's required to approach 10kbps
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[17:24] <SpeedEvil> A completely naieve guess would be that the range at which you might get 10K would be 20km in good conditions.
[17:24] <Dooberry> ahh ok - had to stop and work that out in my head, but it makes sense
[17:24] <Spasmish> yeah. I don't know, I just want something long range that won't make ofcom v& me
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> This of course neglects modern coding schemes. bfsk is about as far as you can get from a optimal power coding scheme.
[17:32] <SpeedEvil> http://b3ta.com/questions/stupidcolleagues/post1112571 Timezones.
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[18:06] <NigeyS> Dave-M0MYA, where you been hiding? :O
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[18:08] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
[18:10] <eroomde> jcoxon: new toy arriving tomorrow
[18:10] <eroomde> I am props excited
[18:10] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/fluke/fluke-190-104-uk/scopemeter-4-channel-100-mhz-color/dp/1858009
[18:10] <khotchkiss> dang that
[18:10] <jcoxon> what!
[18:10] <khotchkiss> s pricy
[18:10] <jcoxon> for the field?
[18:11] <jcoxon> weren't tempted by http://uk.farnell.com/fluke/fluke-190-204-uk/scopemeter-4-channel-200-mhz-color/dp/1858007
[18:11] <jcoxon> :-p
[18:12] <eroomde> lol
[18:12] <eroomde> we need something for the after party
[18:12] <eroomde> khotchkiss: my project has just lost a post-doc
[18:12] <eroomde> that means 4 months of salary now added to the equipment budget
[18:12] <jcoxon> haha so you replaced them with a scope
[18:13] <khotchkiss> interesing.
[18:13] <eroomde> jcoxon: yep for the field
[18:14] <khotchkiss> don't hear much about post-doc stuff in usa
[18:14] <eroomde> i'm uk based (if that's what you were refering to)
[18:14] <khotchkiss> Yeah I gotcha.
[18:14] <khotchkiss> (I'm kinda new here still)
[18:15] <eroomde> but i think that a) PhDs go on a lot longer in the states and b) what we call lecturers are called professors in the states, and there are lots of teaching-related titles that post-docs get quite quickly
[18:15] <eroomde> so there's less of a no-mans land between phd and tenured teaching post
[18:16] <khotchkiss> Yeah. I'm just staring my undergrad stuff now haha
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[18:16] <eroomde> ah cool
[18:16] <eroomde> what are you majoring in?
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[18:17] <khotchkiss> web tech, building web sites and applications and such.
[18:18] <eroomde> cool
[18:18] <eroomde> and interested in habbing?
[18:19] <eroomde> the habhub project might be of some interest. it's writing and combining things like habhub.org/predict and the online tracking services and spacenear.us/tracker and things like that
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[18:20] <khotchkiss> yeah, have been since I saw what the MIT kids did with it. Wanna do something high-alt, but with the jet stream in VA, it'd be hard to retrieve anything
[18:21] <khotchkiss> about to do a 500ft moored flight with a kodak zi8
[18:21] <khotchkiss> im stoked.
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[18:22] <Spasmish> just cross the atlantic, no biggy
[18:22] <Spasmish> :P
[18:23] <Dave-M0MYA> NigeyS! Hello mate!
[18:24] <NigeyS> hey dude
[18:24] <NigeyS> been a while!
[18:25] <Dave-M0MYA> yes indeedy - life got a bit busy for a while
[18:25] <Dave-M0MYA> I got involved with one of them curvy-shaped humans - they make everything go awry! =)
[18:26] <NigeyS> lol
[18:26] <Dave-M0MYA> things have calmed down a bit now so I have found a bit more time for my HAB
[18:26] <Dave-M0MYA> telemetry FTW!
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[18:27] <NigeyS> sweet, how far have you got with it ?#
[18:27] <Dave-M0MYA> almost all of the hardware built, and now correctly taking GPS input and accordingly spitting out formatted output
[18:27] <NigeyS> great :D
[18:28] <Dave-M0MYA> temp and RH sensors next, shouldn't be to bad using the functions I've already written (need modifying slightly)
[18:28] <Dave-M0MYA> I also have a servo operated arm to incorporate
[18:29] <NigeyS> oo you have been busy!
[18:29] <Dave-M0MYA> it all basically depends on getting enough time! fortunately(?) me and my partner in crime have run out of money so we can't be seeing each other. This however, frees up lots of time =)
[18:29] <Dave-M0MYA> hows your project coming along?
[18:30] <Spasmish> sorry to interrupt . .. I wanna release an autopiloted glider from a HAB, any previous projects come to mind?
[18:30] <eroomde> talk to Laurenceb_
[18:30] <eroomde> also check out this:
[18:30] <NigeyS> know that feeling, doing good, end of april lift off hopefully :D
[18:30] <NigeyS> hey Ed
[18:30] <eroomde> zeusbot fail
[18:31] <eroomde> hi nigey
[18:31] <eroomde> Spasmish: http://artvb.oatmeal.dhs.org/Project/4/HighAltitudeGliderMkII
[18:31] <Dave-M0MYA> NigeyS, thats fantastic! Looking forward to that!
[18:32] <khotchkiss> sounds like an awesome project.
[18:32] <Spasmish> wow that's quite something!
[18:32] <Spasmish> cheers
[18:32] <Spasmish> i was thinking just release a regular glider, but thats amazing!
[18:32] <khotchkiss> wait so has anybody actually crossed the alantic with a balloon yet?
[18:33] <eroomde> no amateurs
[18:33] <eroomde> Dan-K2VOL got pretty close though
[18:33] <khotchkiss> how close
[18:33] <eroomde> 300km from ireland iirc
[18:33] <Spasmish> just jetstream?
[18:33] <khotchkiss> wow, that is close.
[18:33] <eroomde> that was the Spirit of Knoxeville
[18:33] <imrcly> waiting on the jetstream we will get there this time
[18:33] <khotchkiss> what'd he use for coms?
[18:34] <imrcly> hf
[18:34] <imrcly> this time its hf and satelite modem
[18:34] <khotchkiss> sweet.
[18:34] <khotchkiss> q1000 or so?
[18:36] <imrcly> digim10 modem and whatever wb8elk built
[18:37] <imrcly> Dan-K2VOL would know the specifics on it
[18:42] <Laurenceb> hello
[18:42] <Laurenceb> someone wanted my for "the glider talk"
[18:42] <Laurenceb> *me
[18:42] <Laurenceb> Spasmish: hi
[18:43] <Laurenceb> ive made a return to base rogallo wing for HAB release
[18:43] <Laurenceb> theres so rather disorganised stuff on the wiki
[18:44] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
[18:45] <Laurenceb> Spasmish: http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:parafoil_avr#mini_rogallo_test_vehicle_enclosure
[18:47] <Laurenceb> that was flown from 10km, and it was stable all the way down with a glide ratio of 3.7 to 1, but annoyingly the knot in the center of the winch servo came undone
[18:47] Action: Laurenceb fails at knots
[18:48] <Spasmish> oh hey
[18:48] <Spasmish> soz i was looking at the canadian glider thing
[18:49] <Laurenceb> yeah thats nice, but its less legal
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[18:49] <Laurenceb> i wanted to go with something 'parachuty'
[18:49] <eroomde> everything is legal in canada
[18:49] <Spasmish> oooh AVR, brilliant. the only MCU i know anything about
[18:49] <Laurenceb> indeed
[18:49] <Laurenceb> also poor glide ration is good for us, as it wont accidentally end up in france
[18:50] <Laurenceb> and rogallos are stable - with ~no control as the winch was sliding all over the place it was still flying in ~200m radius loops all the way down
[18:50] <eroomde> Spasmish: you'll be fine with AVRs. they're a hab favourite
[18:50] <eroomde> check out the ardupilot project too
[18:50] <Spasmish> yeah i'm well aquainted there
[18:50] <Laurenceb> yes thats quite impressive
[18:51] <Spasmish> APM 2.0 coming out soon :]
[18:51] <Laurenceb> i was aiming for something cheap, but gyros are much cheaper now
[18:51] <Spasmish> hack a wiimote
[18:52] <eroomde> cool. well i think there'd be some mileage to getting a chepy foam glider, attaching an ardupilot, and just seeing what happens when you drop it
[18:52] <Spasmish> 'hack' being remove the cover and that's pretty much u done
[18:52] <Laurenceb> id suggest thinking seriously about wind
[18:52] <Laurenceb> it becomes very significant up there
[18:53] <Laurenceb> ardupilot pretends it doesnt exist
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[18:53] <Spasmish> yeah, the x-track and compensation is still being worked on
[18:54] <Spasmish> I guess it's only meant to be flown on nice days anyway, not crazy temperature and winds like up there
[18:54] <Laurenceb> i came up with an optimised waypoint calculator as well
[18:55] <Laurenceb> basically simulate a parachute falling from the glider at the same vertical rate the glider will drop at
[18:55] <Spasmish> and can you tell that well how your glider will perform?
[18:55] <Laurenceb> then subtract the north,east drift from the target landing spot
[18:55] <Laurenceb> and aim for that point
[18:56] <Laurenceb> yes - you could also estimate the likelyhood of reaching the waypoint, and swap to alternate ones if needed
[18:56] <Laurenceb> i didnt get that far
[18:57] <Spasmish> the parafoil project is you right?
[18:57] <Laurenceb> also i recorded the wind velocity in each 150m thick layer of atmosphere during the ascent, and used that as windspeed data for the descent
[18:57] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:58] <Spasmish> I like the squint clock crystal for the AVR, just like on my own crappy stripboard arduino xD
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[18:58] <Spasmish> using a pitot for the wind? or just drift
[18:59] <Laurenceb> drift
[18:59] <Laurenceb> pitot would be useless on a balloon :P
[18:59] <Spasmish> oh yeah. . .
[18:59] <Spasmish> durrrrh !
[19:00] <Spasmish> btw I've heard sirfStar III's crash after 24km . . . that true?
[19:01] <Laurenceb> aiui yes
[19:01] <Spasmish> gaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
[19:01] <Laurenceb> i used lasen iq, but if i fly this again ill stick a ublox5 in it
[19:02] <Spasmish> they seem to be a favorite ... just can't find a nice cheap uBlox though
[19:02] <Spasmish> sirfstars are in like everything i take apart!
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[19:04] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:04] <Laurenceb> ive got a ublox5 from sparkfun, the performance is insane
[19:05] <Laurenceb> practically no noticeable latency at 4Hz, and <20cm/s noise on the velocity outputs
[19:05] <Spasmish> geezus
[19:05] <Laurenceb> i walked down the road and you could see each footstep on the data
[19:06] <Laurenceb> even swaying from side to side slightly as i walked
[19:06] <Spasmish> wow, heh my stupid sirfstar based dongle thing i got off ebay for like £10 is nowhere near that precise!
[19:06] <Laurenceb> heh
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[19:07] <Laurenceb> i had 9 GPS sats, two egnos, and giove B
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[19:07] <Laurenceb> so it was doing all the ionospheric correction fanciness etc
[19:08] <Laurenceb> when galileo proper gets off the ground things will be massively better
[19:08] <Spasmish> no idea what that means
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[19:08] <Spasmish> sounds fun
[19:08] <Laurenceb> the ionosphere corupts the gps signals by delaying them
[19:09] <Laurenceb> its one of the main sources of eror
[19:09] <Laurenceb> esa (i think they run it) have egnos satellites which transmit real time corrections
[19:09] <Spasmish> cool
[19:10] <Laurenceb> so yeah ublox5 owns for uav
[19:11] <Spasmish> thanks for the tips!
[19:11] <Laurenceb> im putting together an stm32 board for uav, but its going to take some time
[19:11] <Laurenceb> no firmware written yet
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[19:11] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/1miZE.png
[19:12] <Spasmish> geez, wait for the ardupilot 32 or whatever roberto navoni is doing on virtualrobotix.com
[19:12] <Laurenceb> tbh i wasnt to write my own firmware
[19:12] <Laurenceb> *want
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[19:13] <Laurenceb> but openpilot is looking very good, i might pinch their attitude filter code
[19:13] <Spasmish> ah yes thats the one
[19:13] <Laurenceb> it is about 5500 lines of hand optimised kalman filter madness
[19:13] <Spasmish> holy crap, thats huge!
[19:13] <Laurenceb> so maybe worth it if it actually works
[19:14] <Spasmish> yeah, prolly will be
[19:14] <Laurenceb> otherwise just use a matrix library ffs
[19:14] <Laurenceb> also it runs on stm32 and uses the same sensors as me so pretty handy
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[19:25] <MrCraig> evening all
[19:26] <fsphil> yo MrC
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[19:28] <MrCraig> Yo fsphil!
[19:28] <MrCraig> hehe hi smea
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[19:31] <MrCraig> bye smea
[19:31] <fsphil> the endless cycle of smea :)
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[19:35] <mattltm> Hi all :)
[19:35] <MrCraig> hi mattltm
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[19:36] <mattltm> Howdy MrCraig :)
[19:36] <MrCraig> wb smea
[19:37] Action: MrCraig has begun to realise how spoilt he has been on the x86 platforms over the years it's been
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[19:41] <fsphil> you playing about with an arm machine?
[19:42] <MrCraig> pic
[19:42] <MrCraig> micro
[19:42] <fsphil> ah
[19:42] <fsphil> yea those are fun
[19:42] <MrCraig> banked memory?!
[19:42] <MrCraig> to be fair, the x86 still is banked but it's not like you need to be concerned with that even in assembler
[19:43] <fsphil> That's why I like using C -- tends to hide all that
[19:44] <MrCraig> well I did try using pascal (near as damn it C) because that's the syntax I use in my job, but the compiler (as does any) sucks up a little too much resource for my liking.
[19:45] <MrCraig> when you've got 224 bytes of ram, and NMEA sentences typically 80-100 bytes in length.... makes sense to assembler it.
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[19:45] <fsphil> very true
[19:46] <fsphil> tinygps has a few neat tricks on saving memory, parsing the string as it reads it
[19:48] <MrCraig> Yeah that's what my first attempt did, and I could switch back to it but I think there was a bug in marshalling the TX/RX timings and it does mean that checksums become more of a chore. Currently I'm working on a 100byte buffer to populate with a GPGGA during a receive cycle. When I get the string I want, I'll stop listening to the GPS while I process the string and xmit, then start over. It has the advantage that a
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[19:56] <MrCraig> hail jcoxon
[19:56] <jcoxon> hello MrCraig
[19:58] <jcoxon> ping natrium42
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[20:12] <Laurenceb> something keeps killing my keyboard :9
[20:12] <Spasmish> eww
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[20:13] <Laurenceb> have to reboot to fix it
[20:15] <Upu> evening
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[20:19] <MrCraig> evenin upu
[20:19] <Upu> hithere
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[20:31] <chembrow> evenin all
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[20:32] <chembrow> what's the best/preferred design for a payload antenna?
[20:32] <RocketBoy> i prefer an inverted groundplane
[20:32] <MrCraig> evenin chembrow
[20:33] <MrCraig> Hi RocketBoy
[20:34] <chembrow> RocketBoy sorry, I don't know much about antenna types. what does that look like (I need to learn this stuff)
[20:35] <MrCraig> RocketBoy you may be the ideal person to answer a question for me :-) PIC16Fxxx assembler, I have "STATUS equ 0x03h" and switch from bank 0 to bank 1, the datasheet says that STATUS is at 0x83h in bank 1, do I need to use a new constant to address that location?
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[20:36] <MrCraig> May sound a dumb question, but it looks like the status word is at the same position in each bank, and I'm hoping the controller will therefore address that location with an address of 0x03h in any bank
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[20:37] <RocketBoy> chembrow: like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/juliesmusic/5265243923/
[20:38] <RocketBoy> but the other way up so its pointing down rather than the usual up
[20:39] <RocketBoy> that one is for 2meters(145MHz) - you will want one thats for 70cms (434MHz)
[20:39] <chembrow> thanks RocketBoy.
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[20:40] <MrCraig> hmm, I was thinking of attaching my antenna through a grounded copper plate - would that make sense?
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[20:40] <chembrow> is the centre (down) the core of the cable, and the radials (?) connected to the braid?
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[20:40] <RocketBoy> MrCraig: yeah thats fine
[20:41] <MrCraig> And by grounded I mean attached to the power supply ground too.
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[20:42] <chembrow> I've got some RG58 and RG174 coax - was going to use the latter if that's OK?
[20:42] <fsphil> MrCraig, yep
[20:43] <RocketBoy> well - the braiding of the co-ax will want to be connected to the ground plane radials at one end and the transmitter RF output ground at the other
[20:43] <RocketBoy> normally thats connected to the DC ground -
[20:44] <RocketBoy> but I wouldn't go attaching the braid anywhere else
[20:44] <MrCraig> oh fsphil - on the antenna I told you about, the 70cm tx that I picked up, you thought of it as a scanner antenna and presumed around 16cm actual length, in fact it's 40cm - that makes any difference?
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[20:44] <RocketBoy> (like the 0v pin) its not the same thing
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[20:45] <chembrow> hmm, I'll need to check what I've got the RF ground connected to
[20:45] <chembrow> I've got an SMA socket on the board
[20:46] <fsphil> MrCraig, could be a 5/8 vertical antenna - that's about 43cm
[20:46] <MrCraig> I'll see how it performs in tests because it's both pretty and easy to mount
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[20:47] <fsphil> does it have a coiled bit near the bottom?
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[20:48] <chembrow> 1/4 wave or 1/2 wave (he says after finding some stuff as a result of semi-random googling)
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[20:49] <MrCraig> fsphil: http://www.maplin.co.uk/mrw-210-super-gainer-antenna-with-sma-connector-32901
[20:50] <MrCraig> like I said, it looked nice and was cheap - so it didn't matter if it was suitable - I'll find a use for it :)
[20:51] <fsphil> actually that should be grand
[20:52] <MrCraig> good, because it's so easy to fix to a piece of copper clad board (which would be the ground)
[20:53] <fsphil> It's a bit pointy, I'd suggest something soft on the end :)
[20:53] <MrCraig> trying to protect eyes?
[20:53] <MrCraig> or trying to have me attach a mascott?
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[20:53] <fsphil> is that the one going onto the payload?
[20:53] <MrCraig> that's the plan yeah
[20:53] <MrCraig> it's a flexible antenna too btw
[20:53] <fsphil> thinking of when it's falling :)
[20:53] <MrCraig> really quite soft.
[20:54] <MrCraig> but could get rigid in the cold hmm, good point
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[21:17] <MrCraig> yeaas! my input buffer works :-) ok, ok, a very minor victory but one over an enemy that's been a particular frustration - celebration is necessary :)
[21:18] <fsphil> Woo-hoo!
[21:18] <MrCraig> :-)
[21:22] Lunar_Lander (~lunar_lan@p54A07C03.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[21:22] <Spasmish> hi
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> is this one good: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9436 ?
[21:23] <jcoxon> yes but it has an evil conncetor
[21:23] <Spasmish> yeah, ze best. I don't have one but i've heard so
[21:23] <jcoxon> very mini
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:24] <MrCraig> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> I tried to track down on of the FSA03 but nobody seems to have them
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello MrCraig
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[21:25] MSP_ (521d82bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.29.130.189) joined #highaltitude.
[21:25] <MSP_> Evening all :)
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> Evening.
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi NigeyS
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> firefox -no-remote
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> argh
[21:27] <MSP_> lol, coming on this irc channel has just cost me a hundred and fifty sovs
[21:28] <jcoxon> sovs?
[21:28] <MSP_> pounds
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:28] <MSP_> gbp
[21:28] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:28] <jcoxon> yeah habbing ain't cheap
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> Ideally you get most of that back.
[21:28] <jcoxon> but it is fun
[21:28] <MSP_> I think it was either you or rjharrison showed me a link for a radio
[21:29] <MSP_> actually I guess its short for soverigns
[21:29] Action: Laurenceb spent 150 today
[21:29] <jcoxon> ft790r?
[21:30] <MSP_> but I have a shiny ft790r for it
[21:30] <MSP_> :)
[21:30] <jcoxon> yay
[21:30] <jcoxon> awesome radio
[21:30] <MSP_> am well pleased
[21:30] <jcoxon> ready for some tracking then
[21:30] <MSP_> am looking forward to making my yaggi (sp?) too
[21:30] <jcoxon> eroomde, 81
[21:30] <jcoxon> yagi
[21:31] <MSP_> it has a little whip with it
[21:31] <jcoxon> yeah thats good for close range
[21:31] <MSP_> I just need to work out how it all works
[21:31] <jcoxon> actually it works even at 100km range
[21:31] <MSP_> but it came with a manual so I'll have to sit down and work throught it
[21:32] <MSP_> am quiet excited, sad I know, but true
[21:32] <jcoxon> no no its a great purchase
[21:32] <jcoxon> i can't part with my 790
[21:32] <MSP_> it was from a radio -ham club
[21:33] <MSP_> looks well looked after
[21:33] <fsphil> I love the style of the 790
[21:33] <jcoxon> yes, they aren't new radios
[21:33] <jcoxon> but work so very well
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> tomorrow my Stabo comes
[21:33] <MSP_> yeah fsphil, its a solid construction
[21:33] <MSP_> oooo whats one of those lunar?
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> it is a hand scanner
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> the stabo XR100 can do SSB
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> it is equivalent to the yupiteru MVT-7100
[21:35] <MSP_> Nice!!!
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> 115 euros
[21:35] <MSP_> Not bad at all!
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> definately :)
[21:35] <jcoxon> MSP_, you going to get your licence?
[21:36] <jcoxon> not required but worthwhile
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I've had from AD a think offering me the chance to win a shiny IMU thingy by registering. I'd signed up for MEMS sensor info by email. I forget exactly how.
[21:36] <jcoxon> (just the foundation that is)
[21:36] <MSP_> I think I may well do
[21:36] <jcoxon> i only have a foundation licence
[21:37] <MSP_> Its not something I was particularly interested in ever doing b4 but, hel, neither was launching a weather balloon ;)
[21:37] <Upu> I'm finding it quite interesting
[21:37] <Upu> I want to make a stacked folded dipole array now :)
[21:37] <MSP_> the uk societ wassname is up the road from me in bedford
[21:37] <MrCraig> Remember getting my 790 - all shiney and new - and I broke the battery case latch the first time I opened it :-/ but it's still a pretty radio. I've yet to use it in anger because I have nothing but a small whip and in a block of flats where putting up an antenna might cause unrest *grumbles* - but it'll get some attention very soon :-)
[21:37] <fsphil> I've wanted to do the radio license for ages, the balloon was the perfect excuse :)
[21:38] <MSP_> I NEED still a gps module and transmitter
[21:38] <MSP_> LOL at mrcraig - grumbles-
[21:38] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: interesting
[21:38] <Laurenceb> good luck
[21:38] <chembrow> I'm thinking of doing the foundation too. if nothing else it might help me understand what people are talking about here sometimes :)
[21:38] <Laurenceb> ive ordered a imu stick from sparkfun
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I was meaning it can e worth registering to get email updates
[21:39] <Laurenceb> yeah ok
[21:39] <Laurenceb> their imu thingy is very nice
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> It is.
[21:39] <MSP_> I just want to have a registered call sign ;)
[21:39] <jcoxon> hehe
[21:39] <Spasmish> registering to what, sorry>
[21:39] <MSP_> am assuming MSP wont be allowed :(
[21:40] <jcoxon> might be able to get M6MSP
[21:40] <MSP_> your handle or call sign
[21:40] <chembrow> MSP_ that thought had crossed my name too :p I want a new domain name and can't think of anything
[21:40] <fsphil> Someone else in our club got MI6KDE -- most likely a coincidence, but I thought it was neat :)
[21:40] <Laurenceb> Spasmish: AD mems newsletter
[21:41] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: ive now (when SFE order arrives) got enough kit to assemble 3 autopilot boards
[21:41] <chembrow> are there any books anyone can recommend as a starter for the ham license?
[21:41] <jcoxon> there is the 'book'
[21:41] <jcoxon> for hte licence itself
[21:41] <chembrow> or shall I start with ham radio for dummies?
[21:41] <Laurenceb> ill probably only do one to test power supply etc, then get a second version of the pcb made
[21:41] <MSP_> you can do that when you have your license, at least thats how i understand it spamish
[21:41] <jcoxon> which is excellent
[21:42] <MSP_> ham radio for dummies?
[21:42] <earthshine> If anyone wants any beer - Mark is collecting money now for a beer run
[21:42] <fsphil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Foundation-Licence-Now-Alan-Betts/dp/1872309801
[21:42] <earthshine> oh fuck wrong channel
[21:42] <fsphil> Beer!
[21:42] <chembrow> fpshil is that the official one?
[21:42] <Laurenceb> lmao
[21:43] <MSP_> LOL
[21:43] <jcoxon> yup
[21:43] <Laurenceb> onow everyone is after that beer
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: neat!
[21:43] <earthshine> :D
[21:43] <fsphil> yea, they will probably use the book in the course
[21:43] <Upu> I have that book
[21:43] <Upu> I have a pile of old exams too
[21:43] <Laurenceb> ive kind of assembled the reflow oven i plan to use
[21:43] <MSP_> earthshine has started summat now :)
[21:43] <Laurenceb> need to do the pcb now
[21:43] <fsphil> lol
[21:44] <earthshine> London Hackspace is now an official test centre for HAM Radio Licence COurses btw
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> earthshine
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[21:44] <earthshine> Lunar_Lander: hey
[21:44] <jcoxon> earthshine, thats excellent news
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> you don`t have any more GPS right?
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> hi :)
[21:44] <earthshine> Lunar_Lander: Sorry no
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:44] <MSP_> I looked as well
[21:44] <earthshine> Uno arrived yet?
[21:44] <MSP_> from the link on the ukhas site
[21:44] <MSP_> :(
[21:45] <earthshine> Link to my shop? If so that needs to be updated.
[21:45] <MSP_> yeah in the gps section
[21:45] <MrCraig> http://bit.ly/g8yKuj && http://bit.ly/g0Fhsh Windows 7 mobile HAB
[21:45] <earthshine> Ahh.. Yeah I used to sell the FSA03 but they sold so slowly I stopped
[21:45] <earthshine> Despite selling them a heck of a lot cheaper than anywhere else
[21:46] <MSP_> :(
[21:46] <fsphil> I think you where the only one selling it
[21:46] <Laurenceb> Windows7 mobile hab...
[21:46] <Laurenceb> seriously
[21:46] <MrCraig> seriously lol
[21:46] <earthshine> fsphil: yeah but no-one was buying it
[21:47] <fsphil> strange -- despite the fragility they're fantastic
[21:47] <fsphil> I got two so I was happy :)
[21:47] <MSP_> its a shame in some ways there only a few of into this sorta thing
[21:47] <MSP_> am going to go after a lassen iq
[21:47] <fsphil> well, one of them is a bit iffy
[21:48] <chembrow> just ordered the foundation now and ham radio for dummies books from amazon
[21:49] <MSP_> lol almost snap chembrow, I stuck them inmy wish list for later purchase
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> yes, the Uno arrived earthshine
[21:49] <MSP_> And radiometreix are out of transmitters
[21:49] <fsphil> good fun doing our course, they're a good crowd at the club
[21:49] <chembrow> I've been thinking about it for a while, got to just do it or I'll never get round to it
[21:49] <MrCraig> Radiometrix are out?!
[21:49] <MSP_> well, the one I want anyway
[21:50] <MrCraig> Which are you after?
[21:50] <fsphil> what would we do if the ntx2 was discontinued? is there an alternative?
[21:50] <MSP_> eh?
[21:50] <MSP_> ntx2 at 434.075
[21:51] <MrCraig> fsphil I think radiometrix actually suggest an alternative on their shopping site now - the NTX2 always appears to be out of stock but when I ordered mine it arrived within 3 days.
[21:51] <MSP_> good question fsphil
[21:51] <MrCraig> well excepting the email asking me which freq I was ordering
[21:51] <fsphil> MrCraig, yea they told me there would be a 1-week delay in getting the 434.075 version
[21:51] <chembrow> farnell have it, but a bit pricey at £24
[21:51] <MSP_> yeah their sales were really very good
[21:51] <W0OTM> natrium42: you around?
[21:52] <MSP_> am in no rush
[21:52] <fsphil> the NRX2 is quite pricey
[21:52] <chembrow> tell a lie, 434.650 only, no 434.075
[21:52] <MrCraig> I still mean to put something on the wiki about the lassen iq pin-outs. They really hurt. You have to modify the shielding on the device for the recommended I/O cable to fit in there too, and then it's a shoddy fit - so I'm going to be using a dab of hot-melt glue to hold it.
[21:54] <MSP_> Hmm so are there any reasonably priced gps modules that use the right OR for US DoD requirements and for us?
[21:54] <MSP_> that aren't a total pain to get?
[21:54] <MrCraig> I suppose the surface mount option is better, it has solder tabs to hold it in place.
[21:54] <MSP_> or is this all part of being in this game? :)
[21:55] <chembrow> a few of use got the gpsbee early in the year (thanks jcoxon); I'll be using that
[21:56] <MSP_> oh yeah?
[21:57] <MSP_> so that would plug straight into an arduino then?
[21:57] <chembrow> http://bit.ly/B6rau
[21:57] <chembrow> no, it's based on the xbee layout
[21:57] <chembrow> their shipping is pretty slow tho
[21:58] <MSP_> right yeah, all I meant was that xbee and xbee shields are fairly well catered for with arduino
[21:59] <chembrow> yeah. not sure how the pinout matches tho. never used xbee, tho I plan to on my next project (tricopter)
[22:01] <MSP_> think xbee is fairly well documented
[22:01] <chembrow> anyway, early start in the morning. night all
[22:01] <MSP_> Right chaps, am now about to go and spend more cash
[22:02] <MSP_> night chem
[22:02] <MSP_> am off myself, need to pack for trip abroad
[22:02] <MSP_> night all
[22:02] <MrCraig> night MSP
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[22:19] <natrium42> W0OTM: sup?
[22:19] <earthshine> Lunar_Lander: cool
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[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> it has a little solder blob
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> to the side of one of the port rows
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> but it doesn't look damaged
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[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> earthshine
[22:36] <Lunar_Lander> and it is smaller than I had imagined :)
[22:43] <earthshine> Lunar_Lander: I don't make them, I just sell 'em ;)
[22:43] <earthshine> Yeah they are nice and compact
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[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> hi juxta
[23:22] <juxta> morning
[23:24] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[23:45] <Lunar_Lander> is Upu still here?
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[23:56] <juxta> i'm pretty tired Lunar_Lander
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah same here
[23:57] <juxta> i found out last night we're putting up a couple of earthquake victims from NZ for the next few months, so the next couple of days will be a bit busy
[23:57] <MrCraig> night night folks.
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> gn8 MrCraig
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[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> hope that all goes well juxta
[00:00] --- Wed Mar 9 2011